Mewtwo Vs Shadow the Hedgehog

Mewtwo Vs Shadow the Hedgehog

Making his first appearance on BankGambling is Shadow the Hedgehog and he’s been matched up against a pretty tough opponent. From all that I’ve heard, Mewtwo is one of the strongest Pokemon around, and while Shadow has some interesting powers too, I’m not sure how long this match would last.

Who wins?

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261 Comments on "Mewtwo Vs Shadow the Hedgehog"

  1. VincentValentine_117 March 16, 2010 at 7:51 pm -      #101

    @originalA
    he can still use chaos control without an emerald. he did so in shadow the hedgehog.
    and you failed to mention chaos spear, chaos Burst, aura snap, and that he can leap from walls several yards apart with little to no effort. ( the last may be a game mechanic so i’m not entirely sure of it)

  2. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 8:01 pm -      #102

    Never played Shadow the Hedgehog, so I didn’t know that one. I do know that he is somewhat limited to an unknown extent with Chaos Control without a Chaos Emerald though because in Sonic Rivals 2 he REQUIRED at least 1 emerald to teleport preform an interdimensional teleportation.

    I didn’t mention those particular powers, but I did mention that he is capable of using Chaos Powers without an emerald. Of his Chaos Powers are Burst, Spear, Snap, and others. I INFERED it. It lets me gloss over a larger subject and concentrate on the important parts, which is the fact that he can use Chaos Powers without an emerald and the particular powers that I thought would be most useful in this match.

  3. Envoy March 16, 2010 at 8:02 pm -      #103

    Shadow does not just spam lightspeed and killer moves, not saying he’s slow, but he’ll act well within his reflexes at first. By mindwiping, mind reading, teleporting, and telekennetic holds reaching every corner of the globe, mewtwo wins this.

  4. VincentValentine_117 March 16, 2010 at 8:11 pm -      #104

    @originalA
    oh, well it’s a good game. shadow actually uses weapons whereas the others won’t.
    and he teleports three times in rapid succession in the opening trailer.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=QStxrDm-EVc
    he uses it at 1:03, then uses the three rapid succession at 1:13. and also at 0:42 it’s clearly shown he is nigh indestructible as he leaps out of a motorcycle explosion unscathed while still holding onto an SMG.
    @Envoy
    he’ll sense mewtwo’s high level of energy and know to take him seriously. and i’m pretty sure there has been another mewtwo since that one. i think anyways.

  5. VincentValentine_117 March 16, 2010 at 8:21 pm -      #105

    @envoy
    i just remembered. at the end of mewtwo strikes back he becomes soft and stops fighting. i doubt he would be as cold hearted as he originally was towards shadow seeing as he’ll probably think shadow’s a pokemon.

  6. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 8:33 pm -      #106

    “Another thing,happerspace?Where did that come from?Nobody said anything about hammerspace.”

    you suggested that mewtwo could steal the emarlds from him, but mewtwo never displayed the power to steal from hammerspace.

    “I know that they share no part in this match,the only reason I brought them up is becuase Darkblade brought up other Shadows…”

    the other shadows who could all participate if shadow was supershadow but he doesnt have all seven emeralds.

    sonics speed.
    “His speed allows him to perform impressive feats, such as vibrating at high speeds to such a degree that it allows him to pass through solid objects. In most times as well he can vibrate his molecules to heal himself faster. More amazing feats of Sonic’s speed is his ability to ball up water, and throw it in 0000000000.1 of a millisecond, and move so fast that he can scoop up dirt, toss it in the air, and walk on it like a bridge.”
    sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Archie_Character)

    and shadow is equal to this. can mewtwo match this speed. plus the chaos force is amping his chaos abilities making them stronger than usual.

    “And dude,no offence but your making it seem like Super Shadow seem like he can just touch Mewtwo and kill him.If Finalhazard,Solaris,hell even one of eggmans machines was able to withstand a hit then Mewtwo as sure as hell can do it…”

    regular shadow could just touch him and kill him. match starts shadow uses light speed attack and splatters mewtwo. that fast that simple. what you need to prove is that mewtwo can keep up with shadow to hit him with anything. mewtwo has never demonstrated the ability to even comprehend motion that fast.

    solaris had to be destroyed at every point in time and Supershadow was 1/3 of the effort which hurt your arguement. sonic and shadow usually 1-shot eggmans robots. plus doctor robotniks technology is far beyond what your trying to make it. the guys tech is so ridiculus that his lone fortress was able to stand agianst a joint attack by the navy, airforce and special force, and wouldve failed if not for rouge and a few other sonic characters. multiple physic warping machines, and even devices powerful enough to strip choas emeralds from their wielders. he has dimensional travel, FTL starships, transforming sky fortress’ and legions of robots whose armor and firepower put anything we can muster to shame, so dont make robotniks creations seem weak.

  7. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 8:36 pm -      #107

    “Just pointing this out, but Shadow is constantly shown and stated to be Sonic’s equal in speed, and in Sonic Adventure DX Manual Sonic was labeled the fastest HYPERSONIC Hedgehog, which puts Shadow’s base speed at Mach 5.”

    Mewtwo has had little to no trouble reacting to anything in the Anime thus far, including an electric attack from a Magneton. Electric attacks in Pokemon travel near instantly and relatively the same speed as a normal bolt of lightning. Like I’ve mentioned before, Mewtwo should have no trouble reacting to Shadow if he can’t hit zomg!sonic speeds or relativistic.

    “Then there is the lightspeed attack, which is roflstomp material. 77 lbs at C is 750 Megatons. I doubt Mewtwo could survive a single hit of that force.”

    Has Shadow ever been seen causing this much destruction with his lightspeed attack?

    “And then there is the point that Shadow does not need the Chaos Emeralds to use Chaos Powers (except Chaos Control and Super Form), and among those powers are Chaos Rift which opens a hole in time and space.”

    -”Shadow opens a rift in time and space, then launches it at a foe in an attempt to banish it. If the foe remains, the foe may become distracted ”

    According to the Wikia’s description, the attack is launched at the foe and the foe may become “distracted” if it doesn’t get rid of them. This implies two things right off the bat.
    1) The attack is avoidable.
    2) The attack is survivable.

    “alternatively Shadow can use chorno manipulative powers without any kind of emerald at all.”

    Hmm, elaborate…

    Mewtwo could still easily react to practically all of Shadow’s attacks and subdue him and destroy him using his psychic power. Mindcontrol, memory wipe, telelportation, etc are at Mewtwo’s disposal.

    “he’ll sense mewtwo’s high level of energy and know to take him seriously. and i’m pretty sure there has been another mewtwo since that one. i think anyways.”

    1.) Energy? What type of energy?
    2.) In the Anime, 1 Mewtwo. Just 1.

  8. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 8:40 pm -      #108

    “regular shadow could just touch him and kill him. match starts shadow uses light speed attack and splatters mewtwo. that fast that simple. what you need to prove is that mewtwo can keep up with shadow to hit him with anything. mewtwo has never demonstrated the ability to even comprehend motion that fast.”

    What you need to prove is that this lightspeed attack can even hurt Mewtwo. 700 Megatons of energy is pushing things way out of proportion of all of Shadow’s other attacks aren’t nearly this powerful and if beings in his universe can actually survive the attack, especially is they’re not that strong to begin with.

  9. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 8:42 pm -      #109

    ““Then there is the lightspeed attack, which is roflstomp material. 77 lbs at C is 750 Megatons. I doubt Mewtwo could survive a single hit of that force.””

    I almost forgot to question the idea of Shadow himself surviving such an attack to begin with.

  10. VincentValentine_117 March 16, 2010 at 8:43 pm -      #110

    “Energy? What type of energy?”
    the immense psychic pressure he’ll put off.
    and you still forget that he became soft and weak at the end of the movie.
    “Has Shadow ever been seen causing this much destruction with his lightspeed attack?”
    sonic has and since shadow can do EVERYTHING (literally, everything) sonic can, then shadow can as well.

    “alternatively Shadow can use chorno manipulative powers without any kind of emerald at all.”
    this is wrong actually, he needs at least one emerald (real or fake) to be able to use chronomanipulation (and we’ve already established he’s carrying one.)
    “Mewtwo could still easily react to practically all of Shadow’s attacks and subdue him and destroy him using his psychic power.”
    shadow was able to react to silver’s psychic powers easily. i doubt mewtwo’s are that much different.

  11. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 8:54 pm -      #111

    @vincentvalentine
    he is indestructable, immortal, and ageless. its in every descripition of him. and proven constantly. he only feels pain and fatigue. i assume you use nigh indestructable to avoid someone saying no limits fallacy when its clearly N/A against a character who is described as such by all sources of canon and segateam. what has to be proved is that mewtwo can kill him, so far theres no canon way to do that. keep up the good work support shadow so he can get a FP award.

    @envoy
    “Shadow does not just spam lightspeed and killer moves, not saying he’s slow, but he’ll act well within his reflexes at first. By mindwiping, mind reading, teleporting, and telekennetic holds reaching every corner of the globe, mewtwo wins this.”

    this is shadow not sonic he doesnt have the same CIS. if he wants you dead he does it, he reflexes are FTL(has to be to control his FTL attacks). also shadow doesnt need to spam at all, one lightspeed attack ends this mewtwo cant react. and why wouldnt he spam attacks he had no problem spamming choas abilities before, he was never shy with it, he spammed the hell outta CC, Cspear, and Cblast when he fought sonic.

    also mewtwo is fast but still not fast enough, im surprised o one brought up how mewtwo could react before a porygon(the process info like supercomputers.)

  12. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 8:58 pm -      #112

    Lighting travels at a max speed of 0.5 C. Shadow can move at C without time manipulation. With chorno manipulation he can reach FLT speeds, and at that point Mewtwo would be unable to see him as light itself would not reflect off of Shadow and be projected into Mewtwo’s eye for him mind to process what he is seeing.

    As for the amount of force during his Lightspeed attack… He weights 77 lbs. 77 lbs traveling at the speed of light has 750 megatons of force behind it. He acheives Lightspeed through sheer acceleration, there is no mass or time alteration, so thus Yes Shadow has demonstrated to cause 750 megaton attacks. Include his time slowing powers and you have FLT abilities.

    You have yet to prove that Mewtwo’s mind can keep up with Shadow’s body, much less his mind which is fast enough to keep himself from splatting at FTL.

  13. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 8:58 pm -      #113

    “the immense psychic pressure he’ll put off.
    and you still forget that he became soft and weak at the end of the movie.”

    1.) Shadow can sense “immense psychic pressure” now?
    2.) Soft and weak? Mewtwo only wishes now to live a life isolated from the rest of the world and give his only friends, the other creations, a chance to live a normal, uninterrupted life. Yes, he’s not as bloodlusted in his old days and he’s a little “nicer”, but only to his “friends” and those not out to harm him. What suggests Mewtwo won’t go all out on his “enemies”. Especially since his current nature would make him want to end a meaningless fight as quickly as possible. A quick memory wipe is one of those means.
    3.) You also forget Mewtwo can react to practically all of Shadow’s attacks, other than for his lightspeed attack.

    “sonic has and since shadow can do EVERYTHING (literally, everything) sonic can, then shadow can as well.”

    700 Megatons? How much destruction?

    “shadow was able to react to silver’s psychic powers easily. i doubt mewtwo’s are that much different.”

    1.) React? Who’s talking about reacting to anything? If Shadow could “react” to Silver’s attacks, it only goes to show that Silver’s psychic attacks are something you can “react” to and avoid.
    2.) The word I think you were looking for was “resist”, in which case, move to 3#.
    2.)Do they surpass or compare Mewtwo’s capabilites?

  14. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 9:02 pm -      #114

    Can’t Mwetwo use his disable attack to keep Shadow from transforming?

  15. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 9:16 pm -      #115

    “What you need to prove is that this lightspeed attack can even hurt Mewtwo. 700 Megatons of energy is pushing things way out of proportion of all of Shadow’s other attacks aren’t nearly this powerful and if beings in his universe can actually survive the attack, especially is they’re not that strong to begin with.”

    its just math and with an object moving at lightspeed a wouldnt doubt it. not that strong!!!!!????? they can destroy robotniks bots with punches and kicks!!! the same robots that withstand missile and laser bombardment unharmed. plus attacks

    “I almost forgot to question the idea of Shadow himself surviving such an attack to begin with.”

    shadow is indestructable and immortal that how he does it. sonic reason is because sega said so.

    shadow ran through a crowd of robots and left them all destroyed in his wake. the his fast to the point where objects seem suspended in time.

    and did you ever think that mewtwo could be reacting to multi attacks quickly due to using telepath to predict them? its a good tactic until your oppent thinks at lightspeed could he comprhend this? how about showing where mewtwo’s physic barrier has the capacity to stop this attack. all defensive move have been broken shattered, circumvented on the anime before, sure they be stronger when mewtwo uses them, but they have a limit, no doubt itll give immediately when struck by lightspeed attack if he can even get it up.

  16. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 9:27 pm -      #116

    the tsar bomba is the worlds largest nuclear weapon and it produces 57 megatons of force. shadow produces 750 megatons, so your looking at destructive capabilities 13.159 times as powerful as this.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxD44HO8dNQ&feature=related

    “You would of got burned if you were 62 miles away and the shock wave was so powerful that it was felt and seen in Finland. The seismic shock created by the detonation was measurable even on its third passage around the Earth. Its seismic body wave magnitude was about 5 to 5.25.The energy yield was around 7.1 on the Richter scale but, since the bomb was detonated in air rather than underground, most of the energy was not converted to seismic waves.”{youtube comment}

  17. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 9:28 pm -      #117

    yea so block that mewtwo and its comming at him at the Speed of light.

  18. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 9:31 pm -      #118

    “i doubt mewtwo’s are that much different.”

    Oh, and when one can conjure up a storm powerful enough to lifewipe a planet, using sheer psychic power, there’s a large gap open for “difference”.

    “Can’t Mwetwo use his disable attack to keep Shadow from transforming?”

    Mewtwo does this via memory wipe, so yes, it’s a possibility.

    “Shadow can move at C without time manipulation. ”

    Using Air Shoes. Shadow can continuously move in lightspeed with this attack? Because this sounds like more an attack he can only use in short bursts. In which case, reacting to Shadow would be no problem for Mewtwo most of the time.

    “As for the amount of force during his Lightspeed attack… He weights 77 lbs. 77 lbs traveling at the speed of light has 750 megatons of force behind it. He acheives Lightspeed through sheer acceleration, there is no mass or time alteration, so thus Yes Shadow has demonstrated to cause 750 megaton attacks.”

    I’m not questioning the math. If Shadow can produce 750 Megatons with his attack, then by default, all attacks in the game more powerful than this is above 750 Megatons. If the entire area isn’t destroyed with this attack, then this attack is likely not 700 Megatons. If enemies that can tank much weaker attacks can tank this attack, then the attack is more readily assumed to be not 700 megatons, than all other attacks in the game being above 700 megatons. I’m asking if we’ve ever seen this “700 Megaton” in action.

    Science rules out most of the time, but if canon says otherwise, then that is what we accept. This is like me overruling the damage we see Samus’ Shock Coil, by saying “neutrinos shouldn’t do that”.

    If we don’t see 700 Megatons from Shadow’s attack, it can be more readily explained by the way the attack works rather than through game mechanics. The Wikia desctription merely says, “it’s a lightspeed attack”, rather than he physically slams himself into the enemy, producing and tanking all of the energy produced, in the process.

    “You have yet to prove that Mewtwo’s mind can keep up with Shadow’s body”

    Doesn’t matter if the attack isn’t all that powerful. Mewtwo will get his chance once Shadow slows down.

    “much less his mind which is fast enough to keep himself from splatting at FTL.”

    He reacts to objects while FTL? This is assuming he has high enough maneuverability, that such reactions are required.

  19. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 9:32 pm -      #119

    @darkblade,shadows immortal?Sega never said that.And indestructable?May I remind you that the original shadow was destroyed…

  20. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 9:34 pm -      #120

    Also the original shadow was destroyed in his super form…

  21. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 9:35 pm -      #121

    ” not that strong!!!!!????? they can destroy robotniks bots with punches and kicks!!! the same robots that withstand missile and laser bombardment unharmed. plus attacks”

    But 700 Megatons?

    “shadow ran through a crowd of robots and left them all destroyed in his wake.”

    But 700 Megatons?

    “how about showing where mewtwo’s physic barrier has the capacity to stop this attack.”

    Shadow has moved at lightspeed before, so where’s the 700 Megatons?

  22. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 9:37 pm -      #122

    750 megatons is the amount of force 77lbs produces on a lightspeed impact. It’s simple math.

  23. VincentValentine_117 March 16, 2010 at 9:38 pm -      #123

    @deathwish5
    no he wasn’t. not all the endings from shadow the hedgehog were cannon. only the final story was.
    @darkblade
    yes, i used “nigh” so i wouldn’t get flamed by someone saying no limits fallacy even though it’s true he’s indestructible.

    @deathwish (again)
    it is stated in several games that he is indestructible. play any game that involves shadow and it will either be said or implied in one way or another.

  24. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 9:39 pm -      #124

    “and did you ever think that mewtwo could be reacting to multi attacks quickly due to using telepath to predict them? its a good tactic until your oppent thinks at lightspeed could he comprhend this?”

    Could you prove this? Mewtwo hasn’t shown to have any sort of precog.

    “i doubt mewtwo’s are that much different.”

    Oh, and when one can conjure up a storm powerful enough to lifewipe a planet, using sheer psychic power, there’s a large gap open for “difference”.

    “Can’t Mwetwo use his disable attack to keep Shadow from transforming?”

    Mewtwo does this via memory wipe, so yes, it’s a possibility.

    “Shadow can move at C without time manipulation. ”

    Using Air Shoes. Shadow can continuously move in lightspeed with this attack? Because this sounds like more an attack he can only use in short bursts. In which case, reacting to Shadow would be no problem for Mewtwo most of the time.

    “As for the amount of force during his Lightspeed attack… He weights 77 lbs. 77 lbs traveling at the speed of light has 750 megatons of force behind it. He acheives Lightspeed through sheer acceleration, there is no mass or time alteration, so thus Yes Shadow has demonstrated to cause 750 megaton attacks.”

    I’m not questioning the math. If Shadow can produce 750 Megatons with his attack, then by default, all attacks in the game more powerful than this is above 750 Megatons. If the entire area isn’t destroyed with this attack, then this attack is likely not 700 Megatons. If enemies that can tank much weaker attacks can tank this attack, then the attack is more readily assumed to be not 700 megatons, than all other attacks in the game being above 700 megatons. I’m asking if we’ve ever seen this “700 Megaton” in action.

    Science rules out most of the time, but if canon says otherwise, then that is what we accept. This is like me overruling the damage we see Samus’ Shock Coil, by saying “neutrinos shouldn’t do that”.

    If we don’t see 700 Megatons from Shadow’s attack, it can be more readily explained by the way the attack works rather than through game mechanics. The Wikia desctription merely says, “it’s a lightspeed attack”, rather than he physically slams himself into the enemy, producing and tanking all of the energy produced, in the process.

    “You have yet to prove that Mewtwo’s mind can keep up with Shadow’s body”

    Doesn’t matter if the attack isn’t all that powerful. Mewtwo will get his chance once Shadow slows down.

    “much less his mind which is fast enough to keep himself from splatting at FTL.”

    He reacts to objects while FTL? This is assuming he has high enough maneuverability, that such reactions are required.

  25. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 9:42 pm -      #125

    Wow, my large post isn’t showing. Don’t feel like retyping it.

    “750 megatons is the amount of force 77lbs produces on a lightspeed impact. It’s simple math.”

    That is consistent? Netutrinos shouldn’t pass right through you and yet it damages objects more than two terrawatts in Metroid.

    If Shadow has gone lightspeed before, then what’s the explanation for such a lack of 700 Megaton scenarios?

  26. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 9:43 pm -      #126

    @vincent valentine,I wasn’t referring to shadow the hedgehog,I was referring to sonic adventure 2

  27. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 9:43 pm -      #127

    Okay, so appearenly I forgot a step in my math. Shadow can only produce 375 megatons at lightspeed.

  28. VincentValentine_117 March 16, 2010 at 9:48 pm -      #128

    @deathwish5
    it never showed that he died. it showed he dissapeared and left his equipment he picked up from those areas.
    @originalA
    still more than enough.

  29. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 9:55 pm -      #129

    “Shadow has moved at lightspeed before, so where’s the 700 Megatons?”
    in the boot that shadows gonna hit em with. but seriously talk math with OA.

    wheres mewtwos lightspeed reactions needed to survive past the first 0.5 sec of the match. and you wanna talk about pokemon electric attacks and mewtwo reacting to them, thats a bad comparison, ash’s sqiurtle has dodged both thunder and thunderbolts. its terrible slow, it even has a slight pause before striking its target, and it happens everytime. pokemon electricity is weak. there is no record of any pokemon ever dying from and electric attack, even small volatges should should cause cardiac arrest or induce irregular heart rates, even water pokemon have been know to tank electric attacks. and they are extremely weak to electricity.

  30. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 9:56 pm -      #130

    “Netutrinos shouldn’t pass right through you and yet it damages objects more than two terrawatts in Metroid.”

    *should*

    “Okay, so appearenly I forgot a step in my math. Shadow can only produce 375 megatons at lightspeed.”

    And we see this effect where? And where do we see Shadow surviving this effect?

  31. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 9:57 pm -      #131

    @OA
    thats still 6.578 times the output of the tsar bomba.

  32. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 10:02 pm -      #132

    “And we see this effect where? And where do we see Shadow surviving this effect?”

    the effect of his own lightspeed attack, lets see……everytime he does it. and that fact thaat it doesnt nuke the area could be attributed to game mechanics. seeing as how RPGs dont destroy cans in COD, bullets dont penetrate plywood in MGS, and moves like giga flare never chage the terrain in FF.

  33. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 10:04 pm -      #133

    “and you wanna talk about pokemon electric attacks and mewtwo reacting to them, thats a bad comparison, ash’s sqiurtle has dodged both thunder and thunderbolts.”

    1.) Prove that Squirtle wasn’t aimdodging those attacks.
    2.) If Squirtle did avoid it, then yes, he has the reaction to do so. Especially since Pikachu has reacted to lightning on two occasions thus far.

    “its terrible slow, it even has a slight pause before striking its target, and it happens everytime.”

    Which proves? Mewtwo blocked the electric attack AFTER it was launched.

    “pokemon electricity is weak. there is no record of any pokemon ever dying from and electric attack, even small volatges should should cause cardiac arrest or induce irregular heart rates, even water pokemon have been know to tank electric attacks. and they are extremely weak to electricity.”

    1.) Which changes the fact that Mewtwo blocked this attack?
    2.) Your referring to those comical scenes where Ash takes a flamethrower to the face without any serious injuries, and using his massive healing factor, heals the next moment we see him. Or those comical scenes where Team Rocket survives a fall from the stratosphere. Why don’t you use more convincing scenes like Pikachu destroy huge machinery and level small areas using his lightning– attacks that would kill a normal human.

  34. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 10:10 pm -      #134

    “the effect of his own lightspeed attack, lets see……everytime he does it. and that fact thaat it doesnt nuke the area could be attributed to game mechanics. seeing as how RPGs dont destroy cans in COD, bullets dont penetrate plywood in MGS, and moves like giga flare never chage the terrain in FF.”

    And so now every enemy that survive this attack is surviving a 300 Megaton attack? And every attack that inflicts more damage than this attack is inflicting more than 300 Megatons worth of damage? Do we assume this, or that Shadow can interact with his environment at lightpseed without blowing it up. The same way neutrinos can magically damage foes in Metroid.

  35. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 10:12 pm -      #135

    We see Shadow surviving it every time he preforms a lightspeed attack. We see the effect every time he hits something… or at least we would if it could survive the hit. As it stands, everything that gets hit with the Lightspeed Attack either gets destroyed immediately (which in turn means that Shadow carries the remaining energy with him to his next target) or in the case of bosses, survives the attack with major damage but due to game mechanics no sign of injury is observed. Considering that bosses are the only thing that I can think of off hand that can surivive an attack and we know that Robotnik’s boss machines are insanely powerful (FTL, shrug off Lightspeed impacts, damage space/time, Super Form, warp reality) those don’t really apply to normal physics like Mewtwo would. The fact remains that if Shadow hits Mewtwo with the entire energy from a Lightspeed Attack, Mewtwo will be on the receiving end of 1,569,523,693,005,453,300 Joules of kinetic energy, or 1.5 septillion joules, which ever way you whant me to say it. Shadow produces that much energy in order to get his 77 pound body to hit the speed of light. If he hits something (mewtwo) that doesn’t give away (e.g. get smeared to paste) then ALL of that energy is going to go into that object that he hits (mewtwo).

    So if you want Mewtwo to survive the FIRST Lightspeed attack (it is easily repeatable) then now you MUST prove that Mewtwo can survive 350 megatons of kinetic energy.

    Aside from that you can shut the fuck up about the subject.

  36. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 10:19 pm -      #136

    “1.) Which changes the fact that Mewtwo blocked this attack?
    2.) Your referring to those comical scenes where Ash takes a flamethrower to the face without any serious injuries, and using his massive healing factor, heals the next moment we see him. Or those comical scenes where Team Rocket survives a fall from the stratosphere. Why don’t you use more convincing scenes like Pikachu destroy huge machinery and level small areas using his lightning– attacks that would kill a normal human.”

    actually i was referring only to actual battles, none of the stupid parts of pokemon even crossed my mind. the most powerful electirc attacks pikachu has used rend ground when it strikes, and machines pikachu destroys explode from electrical overload, in addition most of the lvlin you speak of happens when pikachus attacks collide with other attacks, sure pikachu has demonstrated large discharges of electricity but never as an attack(execpt on EP.1)

    basically the slow weak electrical pokemon attacks dont change the fact mewtwo stopped em it just makes it less impressive of a feat.

  37. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 10:28 pm -      #137

    “Aside from that you can shut the fuck up about the subject.”

    Or no? I’m wondering how far I can get Mewtwo in this especially since I’ve yet to see good explanation for the 300 Megatons.

    Over inflating the level of a character based off one inconsistent figure is ridiculous. Your telling me that Shadow is immune to 300 Megatons of damage, and yet can be harmed in the game. And then you want to pass it off as game mechanics?

    In DBZ, fighters can move at near lightspeed without level their entire areas by just punching something. Is this game mechanics, or can they just interact with their environment at that speed without fucking it up? And should I mention that there many ficitions that have their characters traveling at FTL without them traveling through time. Science does not override canon. We don’t say Samus Shock Coil will do no damage, because science says neutrinos shouldn’t harm you. And as it stand, I’ve yet to any canon fact brought up that puts Shadow causually in the 300 Megaton Range, offensively or defensively. Fact. He doesn’t destroy the are when he moves at lightspeed.

    How about this. Have Shadow survived anything in the past even close to 300 megatons?

    Also, according to the wikia, Shadow needs to be following a “path of rings” to do use Air Shoes.

  38. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 10:33 pm -      #138

    “Science does not override canon. ”

    Ugh, I’m losing it.

    *Science does override canon*

  39. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 10:34 pm -      #139

    “1.) Prove that Squirtle wasn’t aimdodging those attacks.”

    well you cant aimdodge either of them, they can literally come from any angle, the attack would have to be seen first then reacted to. thunder comes from the sky, and thunderbolt are generated by the pokemons body, and can go anywhere in its view. the attacks are amazingly fast either.
    not to mention that its an obvious indicator that an attack is coming when the trainer screams out magnaton use thunder. there are a million ways mewtwo couldve been prepared for the attack, he has enough methods.

    “And so now every enemy that survive this attack is surviving a 300 Megaton attack? And every attack that inflicts more damage than this attack is inflicting more than 300 Megatons worth of damage? Do we assume this, or that Shadow can interact with his environment at lightpseed without blowing it up. The same way neutrinos can magically damage foes in Metroid.”

    shadow doesnt go around slamming into objects at lightspeed, now does he?

  40. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 10:40 pm -      #140

    “shadow doesnt go around slamming into objects at lightspeed, now does he?”

    When he uses his Lightspeed Attack he does.

    And Canon rules over all. Science is used to explain canon. Science does not overrule Canon, but is a tool to quantify it. In this case science says that when Shadow is moving at Lightspeed his kinetic energy is worth 375 megatons of energy.

  41. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 10:40 pm -      #141

    “Science does not override canon. ”

    Ugh, I’m losing it.

    *Science does override canon* Either this, or we assume its game mechanics. I would have no trouble assuming its game mechanics if it was at least consistent with his other defensive showings.

    While I wait for my large post, I’ll just say this. Your basically telling me that we’re going to overinflate all of Shadow’s other damage output and defensive showings, with the fact that he can move at faster than light, when it would be easier to assume ( as this is a fiction ) that he doesn’t generate that much energy when he interacts with other objects?

  42. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 10:45 pm -      #142

    “well you cant aimdodge either of them”

    Avoid Pikachu’s aim before he launches the attack? Yes, Squirtle could have aimdodged either attack.

    “not to mention that its an obvious indicator that an attack is coming when the trainer screams out magnaton use thunder. there are a million ways mewtwo couldve been prepared for the attack, he has enough methods.”

    Moot. Mewtwo blocked it after the attack was launched.

  43. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 11:07 pm -      #143

    Canon, the highest authority in fiction, flat out STATES that Shadow can hit lightspeed and attack at that speed.

    Logic reasons that such an attack is quantifiable by use of Science as we have both the mass and speed of the attack.

    Science CONCLUDES that an impact of a 77lbs object moving at lightspeed would have 375 megatons of force; that is the lightspeed attack quantified.

    Nothing here is game mechanics.

    I’m not going to overinflate the rest of Shadow’s attacks. I’ll take those on a case by case basis. Most of them happen to be simply (random supersonic speed) times 77lbs impacts, others are space/time distortions, others still are energy attacks of some sort that I cannot quantify. To quantify the attack strength of Shadow’s attacks in comparison to the Lightspeed attack would be utilising Game Mechanics as not all attack strengths are scaled properly.

  44. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 11:31 pm -      #144

    so exactly where’s pikachu aiming. its not like a gun pikachu can fire the attack anywhere in his sight.

    “Moot. Mewtwo blocked it after the attack was launched.”
    seems to be a common last ditch on this site when you run outta steam. mewtwo had at least three early warning mechinisms to warn him of the attack. the trainer orally yelled out the attack, he couldve read the trainers mind and known it was coming, couldve read the pokemons mind and knew where it was coming from. it wouldve been pathetic if he hadnt blocked the thunder, reacting afterward is easily attributed to mewtwo’s own lack of speed, he couldve known of the attack before the trainer opened his mouth, but just wasnt fast enough to react at that moment. its very possible hes using precognition to react before things happen to make himself appear faster, similar to jedi. add in the fact that the electric moves are slow, it doesnt make mewtwo seem very fast at all.

  45. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 11:37 pm -      #145

    That wouldn’t be precognition, but rather telepathy. Precognition would be a similar feat except reading the attack by reaching into the future before the event happens. Telepathy would just be reaching into another’s mind before they can act on their thoughts.

    Mewtwo never showed any ability to look through the events of time to my knowledge.

  46. EnigmaJ March 17, 2010 at 7:50 am -      #146

    @OriginalA

    I’ll concede this for now, since my research to find something contradictory to the 300 Megatons outside of game mechanics is coming out empty. There’s nothing in the game cutscense and I’m not checking the anime, since I don’t know how it fits with the original Capcom games.

    The game creators probably weren’t intending for this much damage output when they stated Shadow’s attack was lightspeed, but w/e.

    I suppose this means I have just one last argument in favor of Mewtwo. Mewtwo starts out most, if not all of his battles by paralyzing his enemies movement using his Psychic powers. If Shadow doesn’t decide to start off with his “Megaton” lightspeed attack, Mewtwo should be able to stop him from moving all together. I’m assuming Mewtwo has atleast a slight chance at winning this.

    ————————————————————————————-

    This, however, is ridiculous.

    @Darkbladex96

    “add in the fact that the electric moves are slow”

    Slow? Sometimes we see electric attacks hit the enemy near instantly, while other times we can see the electric attack perfectly as it travels through the air. The time frame in the Anime isn’t all that accurate considering I could name several instances right now where we’ve been able to follow sound waves and actual lightning bolts.

    So how do we know electric attacks in Pokemon travel at the same speed as normal lightningbolts? First of all, there was a case where several Pikachu’s electricity were used to power a generator, meaning that the electricity from Pokemon electric attacks share similarities to actual electricity. Second of all, such massive speeds aren’t unheard of in the anime. Not only have we sound based attacks used on many occasions, but Garchomp’s pokedex entry states ( in the Anime itself– otherwise I wouldn’t be using it– ) that he can travel a supersonic speeds.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6nlCGd5VaA&feature=related

    Third, just compare the speed for yourself at 4:15 onwards.

    “so exactly where’s pikachu aiming.”

    At a Squirtle moving at high enough speeds that its difficult to aim at? Trying to hit a bullseye is even harder when the target is moving isn’t it?

    I’m claiming that Squirtle aimdodged it because it’s an alternate explanation than to Squritle having massively hypersonic+ reactions, not because your on the verge of proving electric attacks aren’t that fast. Even if I were to say “Ok, Squirtle didn’t aimdodge it”, all if says is that Squirtle has the reactions, not that Pikachu’s electric attacks aren’t fast.

    “seems to be a common last ditch on this site when you run outta steam.”

    What seems to be?

    “the trainer orally yelled out the attack”

    1.) Rewatching the scene, I now see that there is no proof of this. The scene shifted to Magneton using an electric attack, and Mewtwo blocking it after the electricity started moving. No trainer is even seen in that clip.
    2.) There most likely was trainer, but that doesn’t change the fact that Mewtwo is seen preparing his defenses after the lightning bolt is fired. It’s like saying it’s not amazing that I dodged a bullet at point blank, after the bullet starts moving, because the guy told me he was about to shoot. If there was trainer yelling out the attack, Mewtwo would have known the attack was coming yes, but the fact remains, Mewtwo didn’t start doing anything until the electricity was moving towards him.

    “he couldve read the trainers mind and known it was coming, couldve read the pokemons mind and knew where it was coming from”

    1.) Even if Mewtwo knew the attack was coming beforehand, he didn’t do anything to prepare for it until the electricity was coming for him.
    2.) I don’t recall Mewtwo ever showing the ability to casually “read” his opponent’s mind ( I can’t think of a scene off the top of my head, but I could be wrong ) and to the point that he can casually use it in battle to avoid an attack coming at him at massively hypersonic and above speeds.

    “reacting afterward is easily attributed to mewtwo’s own lack of speed, he couldve known of the attack before the trainer opened his mouth, but just wasnt fast enough to react at that moment.”

    Your making alot of assumptions about what happened in the moment’s preceeeding the scene that we never see, just to let you know.

    Yet he was fast enough to react as the bolt of electricity was moving towards him at high speeds.

    “its very possible hes using precognition to react before things happen to make himself appear faster”

    Your also making alot of assumptions about Mewtwo’s abilities. Mewtwo is not Jedi Master ( I wish, he’d be able to stop Shadow in tracks before he even started moving if he knew what was coming ). Where is the proof for this precog?

  47. Darkbladex96 March 17, 2010 at 12:12 pm -      #147

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6nlCGd5VaA&feature=related

    oh wow your trying to prove that the electricity isnt slow by showing me slow ass electricity. what i w in this video where bolts of electicity moving at the speed of snot.

    “I don’t recall Mewtwo ever showing the ability to casually “read” his opponent’s mind ( I can’t think of a scene off the top of my head, but I could be wrong ) and to the point that he can casually use it in battle to avoid an attack coming at him at massively hypersonic and above speeds.”

    you probably dont, this was someone elses arguement i believe, that mewtwo could read minds and react before attacks. its not yours so ill stop talkin bout it.

    “Yet he was fast enough to react as the bolt of electricity was moving towards him at high speeds.”

    you mean low speeds.

    “Where is the proof for this precog?”
    got it confused with telepathy, you cant flame me for that. anyway since it wasnt your original arguement ill leave it alone.

    “So how do we know electric attacks in Pokemon travel at the same speed as normal lightningbolts? First of all, there was a case where several Pikachu’s electricity were used to power a generator, meaning that the electricity from Pokemon electric attacks share similarities to actual electricity. Second of all, such massive speeds aren’t unheard of in the anime. Not only have we sound based attacks used on many occasions, but Garchomp’s pokedex entry states ( in the Anime itself– otherwise I wouldn’t be using it– ) that he can travel a supersonic speeds.”

    meaning your logic is folly? sure it has similar properties of lighting, but its nowwhere near as fast or potent. real lightning is nearly instantaneous, pokemon lightning kinda lumbers to the target.

    i dont doubt that there are fast pokemon, dragonite etc…are supersonic travelling pokemon. and sonic boom is supposedly a sonic boom, but mostly just show. sonic boom is nowhere near supersonic. so far the only moves that showcase any sort of supersonic speed are extreme speed, double team, qiuck attack, and aerial ace.

    “I suppose this means I have just one last argument in favor of Mewtwo. Mewtwo starts out most, if not all of his battles by paralyzing his enemies movement using his Psychic powers. If Shadow doesn’t decide to start off with his “Megaton” lightspeed attack, Mewtwo should be able to stop him from moving all together. I’m assuming Mewtwo has atleast a slight chance at winning this.”

    .00000000001 of a millisecond. within that time frame, shadow could have his way with mewtwo and be done with him. can mewtwo react this fast? shadow is lightspeed with chronomanipulation, or the lightspeed attack, is mewtwo this fast? is mewtwo fast enough to react to a being fast enough to throw dirt in the air and walk on it like a bridge? if not he loses.

  48. Whacko March 17, 2010 at 1:04 pm -      #148

    “oh wow your trying to prove that the electricity isnt slow by showing me slow ass electricity. what i w in this video where bolts of electicity moving at the speed of snot.”

    Really, now? Didn’t you notice that pika’s and elkid’s electrical attacks matched the speed of real lightning? And you didn’t once consider that they might show it at this speed to make it easier for the audience to follow the action? It matches real lightning, and real lightning is fast.

    “i dont doubt that there are fast pokemon, dragonite etc…are supersonic travelling pokemon. and sonic boom is supposedly a sonic boom, but mostly just show. sonic boom is nowhere near supersonic. so far the only moves that showcase any sort of supersonic speed are extreme speed, double team, qiuck attack, and aerial ace.”

    You forgot a fair few moves there. Anyway, the most important factor in a move is the speed of the user. A dragonite at mach 2 can deliver a supersonic Tackle despite said move being average in speed under normal circumstances. Look at the speed of the pokemon in question first. And Mewtwo can react to lightning after it is shot at him.

    Despite that, Mewtwo will still get smashed.

  49. OriginalA March 17, 2010 at 1:07 pm -      #149

    What you are really going to hate about the LIghtspeed attack is that as an object approaches lightspeed its mass increases. Once it does hit lightspeed its mass is infinite. 375 megaton assumes Shadow’s mass is constant instead of increasing.

    Also lightspeed does weird stuff to the objects state of being (he would be a two dimensional object, which doesn’t take away from my arguement as he can still move in three dimensions and in multple directions at the same time [running forward while punching sideways]) and the time dialation would cause perceived time to stop for him, and this is just through sheer acceleration… he hasn’t even begun to use his chrono manipulation that would stack ontop of this.

    So yeah, Kinetic Energy = 0.5 Mass x Velocity ^2
    KE = 0.5 of ∞ x CC = undefinable. Real numbers like C or even 0.5 do not interact well with the concept of a non-finite, unlimited amount.

    So there you go, Infinite Mass Punch equalling unquantifinable due to it being absurdly large. This makes my 375 megaton output look rather conservative.

  50. Darkbladex96 March 17, 2010 at 1:30 pm -      #150

    “Really, now? Didn’t you notice that pika’s and elkid’s electrical attacks matched the speed of real lightning? And you didn’t once consider that they might show it at this speed to make it easier for the audience to follow the action? It matches real lightning, and real lightning is fast.”

    then real lightning on pokemon is slow. not my fault the developers failed to make accurate depictions of the real speed of electricity, but ill let it slide seeing as the same arguement could be use against shadows light speed movement.(actually it couldnt)

    “You forgot a fair few moves there. Anyway, the most important factor in a move is the speed of the user. A dragonite at mach 2 can deliver a supersonic Tackle despite said move being average in speed under normal circumstances. Look at the speed of the pokemon in question first. And Mewtwo can react to lightning after it is shot at him.”

    actually i was only referring to moves that were innately fast despite the pokemon that uses it. i know that pokemon who move supersonic, can attack supersonic, its common sense, but trying to compare the snot speed lightining on pokemon to real life lightning is bad. electric attacks are so freaking slow on pokemon people can jump out of its way. its just sad.
    which makes me ask are the people on pokemon hypersonic? if so its a real fucked up anime. actually i wouldnt be surprised, there was a gym leader who could deflect aura spheres with kicks.

  51. Whacko March 17, 2010 at 1:41 pm -      #151

    People in pokemon are gods of invulnerability. Look at team rocket. They get hurled quite far quite often, no? Yet they seem fine every time. Unless gravity in pokemon is weaker too, and impacts in general they’re hard. Which might, just might be because Pokemon is a show for kids. Special stuff happens to avoid deaths and things that might cause parents to take up arms and shoot those who make the show. Also, Gyrados can crush cities. Still, people have survived getting attacked by it. And, when people in pokemon are scared, they occasionally run far faster than any real life human could ever hope to do.

    People in pokemon are mini supermen without flight, and are equipped with plot armor and the position of people in a children’s show. They can do most everything. But, i’d like to ask you one thing, have you ever seen anything that implies Pokemon lighning is shit, apart from slowed down for the audience speed and an inability to kill those tough bastards?

    “actually i was only referring to moves that were innately fast despite the pokemon that uses it.”

    I know you did, I only said that there were some you didn’t mention, like Mach Punch. It’s not a big deal.

  52. EnigmaJ March 17, 2010 at 1:53 pm -      #152

    “then real lightning on pokemon is slow. not my fault the developers failed to make accurate depictions of the real speed of electricity”

    As Whacko said, it’s for visual reasons. You know, the same reason we can see DBZ’ers move, despite them travelling at massively hypersonic speeds. Your refusing to believe that it’s fast because we see it “moving” slowly, and yet when we see it compared to normal lightning speed in a scene, you then go on to say that even normal lightning in pokemon is “pathetic”. It’s kindof ridiculous really.

    We saw normal lightning in that video. Normal lightning has a range of speeds it can move at. The reason we saw the lightning in that video is the same reason we can see DBZ’ers. But let me guess, DBZ is a cool anime, so it doesn’t matter!

    This isn’t even the only time this has happened.

    “which makes me ask are the people on pokemon hypersonic? ”

    No.

    “if so its a real fucked up anime.”

    No, if so it’s fiction. And why your bashing one made for seven-ten year olds is beyond me.

  53. Darkbladex96 March 21, 2010 at 9:00 pm -      #153

    “But, i’d like to ask you one thing, have you ever seen anything that implies Pokemon lighning is shit, apart from slowed down for the audience speed and an inability to kill those tough bastards?”

    yeah, water pokemon tanking thunder, pikachu’s inconsistant power lvl. it able to overload giant robots and power space ships and has the physical strength to go toe to toe with large pokemon via iron tail yet its completely oblivious as to how to escape from a glass jar. people being attacked by every electric type from voltorb to magnamite and jumping outta the way of thunderbolt.

    i would accept that it was a visual thing if pokemon creators werent so picky and choosy about the crap. the constantly weaken the forces of nature to the lvl of the pokemon so that the plot can advance.
    off the top of my head i know they have stopped a tornado, a flood, a fucking volcanic eruption, lava flows, a glacier.

    when they show crap like pikachu deflecting lightning with his attacks i dont even pay attention to that crap. pikachu would have to have reflexes in excess of 0.5C to percieve and react to the lightning. if this was so, he would be easily able to handle any pokemon lower then legendary. anime wise he’s never demonstrated those kinds of reflexes.

    it actually doesnt matter because this was just a funny little deterrant to lengthen the thread since shadow wins via unstoppable speedblitz with more energy yeild then anything hes ever been show tanking.

  54. Darkbladex96 March 21, 2010 at 9:03 pm -      #154

    “No, if so it’s fiction. And why your bashing one made for seven-ten year olds is beyond me.”

    because i bash every anime were extremely retarded situation occur frequently.
    which would be most animes.

  55. EnigmaJ March 21, 2010 at 9:23 pm -      #155

    “anime wise he’s never demonstrated those kinds of reflexes.”

    Except in that specific scene, which you seem intent on ignoring. And this one.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrAiOOxTeeY
    (0:50+)

    You can’t measure measure a thunderbolt’s speed based off “how fast it seems to be moving” because every time we see it, it’s speed entirely depends on how fast the animators decide to draw it ( you love picking out those scenes where we can follow the thunderbolt moving, yet you seem to have forgotten all those times the movement of the electricity is drawn with so few frames that we can’t ). This is the only scene we have where we can gauge its speed as the electricity is drawn slow on many occasions for visual reasons. And you seem to be intent on ignoring it, with little more reason than “Pokemon is a shit anime”.

    “the constantly weaken the forces of nature to the lvl of the pokemon so that the plot can advance.
    off the top of my head i know they have stopped a tornado, a flood, a fucking volcanic eruption, lava flows, a glacier.”

    Weaken the forces of nature to the power of Pokemon? Excuse me?

    “completely oblivious as to how to escape from a glass jar”

    A glass jar, which happened to be designed to be immune to electricity in the first place. And before or after Iron Tail?

    “people being attacked by every electric type from voltorb to magnamite and jumping outta the way of thunderbolt.”

    Comical Scenes. PIS.

  56. EnigmaJ March 21, 2010 at 9:46 pm -      #156

    “You can’t measure measure a thunderbolt’s speed based off “how fast it seems to be moving” because every time we see it, it’s speed entirely depends on how fast the animators decide to draw it ( you love picking out those scenes where we can follow the thunderbolt moving, yet you seem to have forgotten all those times the movement of the electricity is drawn with so few frames that we can’t ). ”

    In case you misunderstand me here, basically what I’m saying is that the time frame is inaccurate. Natural lightning travels at the speed of lightning, and yet I can name three scenes right off the bat where we can follow it in Pokemon because of the way its animated. This, along with the inconsistencies in the thunderbolt’s speed, tells us that the time frame is inaccurate when dealing with speed in Pokemon.

    Therefore, the only scene that we have that gives us an idea of how fast thunderbolt actually moves is that specific scene. And it shows us that thunderbolt moves at around same speed as lightning.

  57. Belisaurius March 21, 2010 at 9:53 pm -      #157

    Few essential questions that need to be answered.

    First, does shadow have a chaos emerald and enough rings to activated?
    Second, if the answer is the first is not, will Shadow get the oppertunity to collect these mid-battle?
    Third, how will mewtwo react to Chaos Control?
    Forth, is Shadow too fast for Mewtwo to concentrate on?

    …that should cover that.

  58. Darkbladex96 March 21, 2010 at 11:08 pm -      #158

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrAiOOxTeeY

    ahhh thats what i like to see generation I first episode. classic. well i perfectly understand you, we are just on two opposite sides of a conflict concerning PIS and plot shielding and the like.
    while you believe that plot shielding and plot devices should be ignored for real physics, i believe that animes like pokemon where 3/4 of the shows characters and events are plot shielded that it should be taken at face value. because even though you have those videos of pikachu showing reflexes and speed capable of beating a bolt of lightning to the ground we also have.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC7w4-vMDbo&feature=related
    pikachu getting smacked by a tail whip.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgR3PHv5Jts&feature=related
    electric attacks slow enough that gary can tell his electivire to counter with another electric attack.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMP7vmBfSCo&feature=related
    another tailwhip to the face(mute this video)

    this is exactly what im talkin about.

    @Beli

    “Few essential questions that need to be answered.

    First, does shadow have a chaos emerald and enough rings to activated?
    Second, if the answer is the first is not, will Shadow get the oppertunity to collect these mid-battle?
    Third, how will mewtwo react to Chaos Control?
    Forth, is Shadow too fast for Mewtwo to concentrate on?

    …that should cover that.”

    shadow always has at least one fake or real choas emerald, and shadow rarely uses ring energy hes completely immortal and indestructable, choas control can be a total time stop so he wont react at all, shadow is capable of light speed movement unaided so hes way faster then anything mewtwo could ever keep up with.

  59. EnigmaJ March 23, 2010 at 3:27 pm -      #159

    “i believe that animes like pokemon where 3/4 of the shows characters and events are plot shielded that it should be taken at face value. ”

    Of course. This applies to all fictions, not just the Pokemon Anime. While the author’s word and canon information should be regarded as the word of god when discussing these sort of things, everyonce ansd awhile, there will be a feat that is horribly inconsistent with other feats and that can’t be explained through any sort of science or canon; This merely shows the author didn’t knew what they were doing when they made it happen or was more focused on the plot rather than consistency.

    However, whether the author knew or cared what they were doing or not ( as is the case with many children’s cartoons, obviously ), if the the feat isn’t inconsistent with any other showings, then there isn’t any good reason at all to disregard it, as you can’t really say you knew for sure what the author was thinking. And this scene is one of them. Whether or not the pokemon animators knew how fast a lightning bolt actually moved at or cared for that matter, unless its horribly inconsistent with Pikachu’s other showings and can’t be explained at all, there’s no reason to disregard it. And in this instant, there is no inconsistency; which I will go on to show you.
    ————————————

    While lightning can travel at 0.5 C, or half the speed of light, under certain conditions, many of the sites I’ve visited tells me lightning ‘generally’ travels at 75 miles per second, or 120 kilometers per second, OR 120,000 meters per second. Wikipedia gives a much lower speed ( half that ) with 60,000 meters per second for lightning. For this, it would be in my best interest to use the lowest possible speed for the lightning I can find ( as I’m trying to prove its consistent with Pikachu’s other reaction feats ), but I’ll use the more usual one ( 120,000 meters per second ) just to prove my point.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSAtpJVvO6I&feature=related

    At 5:20, we see that Pikachu is unable to react to a screech from Onix. Screech is a exactly what is sounds like; an actual ‘screeching’ attack. While it may seem that this is a huge inconsistency at first: Pikachu is able to react to lightning one moment, but the next, he is unable to react to sound in time– what your forgetting to consider is the distance that the projectile is coming at you from, the situation that “reacter” was in when he was reacting to the attack, and generally, how long the person had to react. The speed of the attack isn’t as important so much as the amount time you have to react to it.

    Sound travels at only 344 meters per second; An insignificant amount compared to ( 120,000 meters second ). However, at 5:26, we see that there was only about 2 meters distance between Onix and Pikachu when the sound hit Pikachu. You can calculate using “344 meters per second” the time it takes sound to travel 2 meters. You should get 0.005 seconds. Apparenly, Pikachu does not have the reactions to react to something with a mere 0.005 seconds notice.

    Lightning travels much faster than sound, however, lightning obviously had to travel much larger distance than 2 meters to get to Pikachu. As a result, it takes a longer amount of time. After a bit of researching, it appears that lightning generally begins 7 to 10 miles above the ground, or 11 to 15 kilometers. Going with 120 km per second for the speed of lightning, it would take between 0.09 seconds and 0.13 seconds for the lightning to reach the ground. Around a tenth of a second. Pikachu has shown to be able to react to this twice, and it’s not inconsistent with Pikachu NOT have 0.005 second reactions. Using 60 km per second for the speed of lightning ( from Wikipedia ), we get numbers ranging from 0.18 seconds to 0.25 seconds.

    Same thing applies to Pikachu “beating a lightning to the ground”. Pikachu doesn’t need to travel at the same speed as a lightning bolt to do that; He merely needed to travel about 5 meters in the time it took lightning to travel more than 10 kilometers ( which ranges from 0.09 seconds to 0.25 seconds from the above calcs ). You should get somewhere between 20 and 55 meters per second, or in otherwords, Pikachu only needed to move at somewhere between 44 and 123 miles per hour to accomplish that. A little bit more if you consider the time it may have taken for Pikachu to accelerate.

    Impressive, but is does such reaction and speed give Pikachu a massive edge over other Pokemon in the anime. I think not.

    Keep in mind, that this is all to show that that the lightning bolt scenes are not inconsistent with everything else, and therefore, there is nothing wrong with assuming thunderbolt travels at relatively the same speed as a bolt of lightning.

    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC7w4-vMDbo&feature=related
    pikachu getting smacked by a tail whip.”

    Not surprising considering who did this. In the anime, Dragonite’s pokedex entry states that it flies faster than any known Pokemon. Garchomp, a known pokemon =P, is stated to be able to fly at supersonic speeds ( in the anime ). Whether or not Dragonite was moving at its highest possible speed in that video, Dragonite does have the speed to catch Pikachu off guard depending on the distance.

    Also, Pikachu was already in the air at the time. Even if Pikachu saw the attack coming, he would have been hard pressed to change his forward direction while in the air, which should have been somewhat impossible under that circumstance ( though Pikachu does learn to do this later on =P ).

    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgR3PHv5Jts&feature=related
    electric attacks slow enough that gary can tell his electivire to counter with another electric attack.”

    Several things.

    One, talking is a free action.
    tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingIsAFreeAction

    Its common in fiction for people to be able to speak in certain scenarios where they shouldn’t have the time to. Especially if its to further the plot.

    Two, going off this scene alone, there’s no way Gary should have been able to react to that anyways. At 0:09, we see that there’s no more than several meters distance between Electivire and Pikachu. For Gary to be able see the attack, speak for 2 seconds, and the electric attack to only make it half way between Pikachu and Electivire ( about a meter ), the attack would have be moving to slow to to even be viable in a Pokemon battle. Or are you going to tell me that the reactions of pokemon are inferior to that of even people? If anything, this scene is inconsistent with the rest of the anime.

    Seriously. At that speed, the attack would have taken at least 4 seconds to reach Electivire ( and crossing a distance of about 2 or 3 meters ).

    If we were to assume the time frame is consistent ( which has been shown time and time again that it isn’t ), we see at 0:16 that Pikachu’s electric attack actually travelled atleast a full meter in less than second. At that speed, with only 4 meters distance, Gary could NOT have had the time to say all that. ( assuming he has normal human reactions, of course =P )

    Gary doing that. PIS.

    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMP7vmBfSCo&feature=related
    another tailwhip to the face(mute this video)”

    I think I’ve shown that Pikachu’s reaction and speed aren’t at such a level, that other pokemon can’t hope to touch him.

  60. Darkbladex96 March 24, 2010 at 10:14 pm -      #160

    that was a long off topic post; however you do realize that none of that matters because mewtwo loses due to logical reasons, such as being to slow and having no way to kill and immortal ,indestructable being.

  61. Belisaurius March 24, 2010 at 10:55 pm -      #161

    “immortal ,indestructable being.”

    Point of order, Shadow did die after falling into the atmosphere in Sonic adventure 2, he’s a mortal being, just like Sonic.

  62. Nintendopwns March 24, 2010 at 11:32 pm -      #162

    If he died how in the heck did he appear in his own game and sonic 06?

  63. Darkbladex96 March 25, 2010 at 12:05 am -      #163

    “Point of order, Shadow did die after falling into the atmosphere in Sonic adventure 2, he’s a mortal being, just like Sonic.”

    shadow has always indestructible and immortal, when he fell into the atmosphere he was “presumed” dead. that is a plot device called a cliffhanger it was unknown that he was indestuctable to us the player at the time.

    he is far from mortal.

  64. Darkbladex96 March 25, 2010 at 12:06 am -      #164

    because obviously he isnt dead.

  65. EnigmaJ March 25, 2010 at 2:37 pm -      #165

    “that was a long off topic post; however you do realize that none of that matters because mewtwo loses due to logical reasons, such as being to slow and having no way to kill and immortal ,indestructable being”

    However, do you realize that I stopped debating for Mewtwo’s victory a long time ago, and merely to defend Anime Mewtwo’s high level reactions and the speed of Pokemon electricity ( which could be brought up again in the future ), which you were the one to deny/refute/counter in the first place?

  66. Darkbladex96 March 25, 2010 at 3:08 pm -      #166

    as a way to waste time, and kill minutes and seconds. as long as they do electric attacks on pokemon the way they do. i will never accept pokemon electric attacks as comparable to lightning,

  67. Darkbladex96 March 25, 2010 at 3:21 pm -      #167

    why? because the anime couldnt function without those plot devices, based on the size of most pokemon battle areanas and the speed of lightning, there is no way that ANY pokemon can dodge with only a few execptions being pokemon capabale of chronomanipulation, or pokemon who can tell the future. not even garchomp or dragonite would be able to dodge. they only clock in supersonic under certain conditions. garchomp would get hit and dragonite could only dodge if it were and open sky battle area.

  68. EnigmaJ March 25, 2010 at 3:38 pm -      #168

    “as long as they do electric attacks on pokemon the way they do. i will never accept pokemon electric attacks as comparable to lightning,”

    This explains why DBZ’ers are so damn slow.

    /sarc

    “based on the size of most pokemon battle areanas and the speed of lightning, there is no way that ANY pokemon can dodge with only a few execptions being pokemon capabale of chronomanipulation”

    That’s why I called Aim Dodging for Squirtle and any other situation I can call aim dodge for. Mewtwo’s case, however? He didn’t aim dodge anything.

    “not even garchomp or dragonite would be able to dodge. they only clock in supersonic under certain conditions. garchomp would get hit and dragonite could only dodge if it were and open sky battle area.”

    I like how your under the presumption that Electric Pokemon have perfect aim, enough so to hit a moving target that could move at supersonic speed under optimal conditions.

    “why? because the anime couldnt function without those plot devices”

    I’ve already done alot to prove the consistency of the scene I used to clock Pokemon electric attack speed. You’ve failed to do the same.

    ” i will never accept pokemon electric attacks as comparable to lightning,”

    Doesn’t change the fact that it is, does it now?

  69. EnigmaJ April 29, 2010 at 6:04 pm -      #169

    Just to correct my mistake- assuming Pikachu started moving at the same time the lightning started moving in the second video would put his movement speed somewhere between 12 and 30 times the speed of sound. I forgot to increase the “meters per second” number at the end to “km per hour” before converting it to miles per hour. Because these numbers are inconsistent with everything else we’ve seen in the anime, we can’t assume Pikachu reacted to the lightning in that instance.

    This doesn’t really change anything else though. My other points still stand, as Pikachu is seen reacting to lightning in the first video, and the speed of both the lightning bolt and Pikachu’s thunderbolt seems about equal.

  70. Envoy April 29, 2010 at 7:18 pm -      #170

    “shadow has always indestructible and immortal, when he fell into the atmosphere he was “presumed” dead. that is a plot device called a cliffhanger it was unknown that he was indestuctable to us the player at the time.

    he is far from mortal.”

    Then how does he die in game, and how does he kill his father with his own two hands, care to explain?

  71. Darkbladex96 April 29, 2010 at 7:41 pm -      #171

    “Then how does he die in game, and how does he kill his father with his own two hands, care to explain?”

    game mechanic. and what father? shadow was engineered if im not mistaken. quick to tell me to explain segas plot holes.

    since you make the claim that he isnt immortal care for some none gameplay proof? last i checked he survived atmoshperic re entry and they point blank explosion of his motorcycle(unharmed). you can harm him he just wont die, he’ll fatigue from pain though.

    sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_the_Hedgehog

    it says hes immortal indestructible and ageless in the first paragragh, and all thats against it is a game mechanic.

  72. Envoy April 29, 2010 at 8:03 pm -      #172

    “game mechanic. and what father? shadow was engineered if im not mistaken. quick to tell me to explain segas plot holes.”

    He was made using black doom’s DNA, who shadow killed at the end of Shadow the hedgehog, aditionaly in some boss batles you could gun down Daddy dearest and his children with any manner of weapons available. Saying shadow dying is game mechanics is like saying 50-cal. rounds(HEADSHOTS, mind you) not killing splicers in bioshock, to be game mechanics.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiTJPOx_WiE&feature=related
    “Dont you know? You were created from my blood…”

  73. OriginalA April 29, 2010 at 8:05 pm -      #173

    Although I hate to make this arguement, but Shadow’s mortality could very well be game mechanics. Sonic 06 mentioned and showed that Shadow had to be captured and put into stasis because he could not die,

    According to this site, which is an offical sega site:
    www2.sega.com/sonic/content.php
    Shadow is immortal. (World of Sonic > All about Sonic > Characters > Shadow > third sentance)

    According to this site, the official site for Sonic 06:
    www2.sega.com/gamesite/sonicnext/sonicnext_full/index.php
    direct quote: HE CAN’T BE KILLED. (story > characters > Shadow > end of first sentance)

    I would be more than willing to assume it was biological immortality (cannot die of natural causes) if they just left it at “he is immortal” but the 06 site flatly states that he can’t be killed. Not that he just cannot die, but that he cannot be killed.

    Do note that Black Doom said that he was immortal. He is making a claim about himself. SEGA says that Shadow is immortal. SEGA, who made the series, is making a claim about a character in a francise that they have complete control over. There is a differance between the validity of the claims because of who says it. Black Doom could very well have been biologically immortal though.

    Immortallity aside, this is a lightspeed hedgehog with the ability to control time; how is this still being debated?

  74. Darkbladex96 April 29, 2010 at 8:08 pm -      #174

    it really isnt…………………………

  75. Darkbladex96 April 29, 2010 at 8:23 pm -      #175

    @OA

    luv how you just appear on threads about subjects your knowledgable on even though the history has no posts from you on it, the shit is hilarious. its like you have a 6th sense for it.

  76. Envoy April 29, 2010 at 8:51 pm -      #176

    So dr gerald made shadow immortal and let his neice die….great, FUCK YOU SEGA AND ALL OF YOUR BULLSHIT TOO!!!

  77. Envoy May 6, 2010 at 10:07 pm -      #177

    Just a question, when has shadow hit light speed?
    I can remember shadow doing the lightdash on rings, but only on rings.

  78. OriginalA May 6, 2010 at 10:36 pm -      #178

    He also had a Lightspeed Attack in Sonic Adventure 2. Unlike Sonic, Shadow never got over his charge time for the attack, so he has to delay the attack a few seconds. The fact remains though that he should still be able to instantly accelerate into mid to high super sonic speeds away from MewTwo (and out of M2′s attack range) charge up the LSA and then unleash an attack that MewTwo would never have to hopes to doing anything against.

    That is one of the few things that differantiate Sonic from Shadow. After SA2, where they were basically plain recolors of each other from a game play perspective, they started doing differant things. Sonic got faster, totally dropping the charge time for the LSA, and Shadow started to slow down (game mechanics; canon wise he still rivals Sonic) and instead gained more power of Chaos energy blasts and time/space abilities.

  79. Envoy May 7, 2010 at 2:32 pm -      #179

    Mewtwo has the telekinetic range of a planet, and the LSD has a limited range too. Didnt he lose the powerups from SA2, he dosent hit lightspeed anytime after its ending.

  80. T.T. May 21, 2010 at 12:41 am -      #180

    I though about this match for a long time when I found this,
    because I know both characters well.
    I had read all of the comments here and then began thinking….
    Then I came to my conclusion!
    But, before I tell you; let me go over my results…

    Mewtwo vs Shadow’s speed:
    All admit, Shadow has a faster movement speed,
    but I think Mewtwo has an equalreaction time.
    EnigmaJ’s early comments are vaild. But It dosen’t matter anymore as Mewtwo has a counter to Shadow’s speed…and that is…..
    “TRICK-ROOM”!
    What is “Trick Room” you ask? It is a move that changes the fighters speeds!
    Trick Room causes the slower moving fighter (Which is Mewtwo) to be the faster one, while the faster one (Which is Shadow) becomes the slower one!
    This cripples Shadows speed strategy, because now, Mewtwo moves faster the Shadow can! Even if Shadow transforms into Super Shadow; Trick Room move compensates even if the oppent enhances his or her speed, still making Mewtwo faster!
    Aside from this advanage Mewtwo gets, he can also use the move “Disable” to
    prevent Shadow from useing Chaos Control!
    When I though some more it got worse for Shadow…
    Mewtwo has his ability “Pressure”, which causes Mewtwo’s foes to use twice as much energy for everything they do!
    So even if Shadow goes Super….he can’t catch Mewtwo because of Trick Room,
    and “Pressure” ability causes Shadow to half his Super form as his energy is burned off at twice the rate, so he reverts to normal. And when that happens, he then really can’t Mewtwo because his Super form is what gives him flight so he can go into the air to fight Mewtwo (-Who also can fly).
    It also get even more worse as with another move called:
    “Aura Sphere”
    This move cannot be dodged by evasive meens, as the attack auto-homes into it’s target. And since Mewtwo is faster because of Trick Room, This will be easy for Mr. Mewtwo to hit him with it.
    This also dosen’t accout for Mewtwo’s other moves such as:
    “Recover”- Mewtwo restores alot of his health.
    “Protect”- A barrier that blocks one attack, no matter how much damages it causes.
    Or even Poison Shadow or put him to sleep with other moves, also not to mention he other high damaging attack moves.
    And last I checked Shadow is not immoratal, Envoy has some of the reason’s why.

    So by viewing this data, The winner is none other than Mewtwo!
    Mewtwo, as you can see, destroys Shadow’s main abilities and overcomes him.
    I don’t see anyway Shadow can win this fight; so I nominate Mewtwo for the
    FP Award!

  81. T.T. May 21, 2010 at 12:47 am -      #181

    I was late when I wrote this so I’m sorry for missing and mistakes in words

  82. OriginalA May 21, 2010 at 1:45 am -      #182

    Several things wrong with all of that:
    1) it assumes MewTwo can rival Shadow’s FTL reaction speed. A highly improbably scenario.
    2) it assumes that MewTwo can pull off Trick Room AND Disable before Shadow can pull off a single Chaos Control, a move that he can preform just by thinking it (with his FTL thinking speed).
    3) it assumes that MewTwo’s body can suvive moving at high relativistic speeds; a feat that no pokemon has ever accomplished. It is more probable that MewTwo’s body will tear itself appart once it starts hitting an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, which is chump change compared to Shadow’s top speed. The thought of MewTwo insta-gibbing himself through insane acceleration humors me greatly.
    4) it blatantly ignores the fact that SEGA, the liscened holder of the Sonic franchise and thus the supreme dictator of Sonic canon, has STATED that A) Shadow is Immortal, and B) Shadow CANNOT die.
    5) it assumes Disable will knock out all of Shadow’s Chaos abilities instead of just a single move (which contradicts how that move works in the games by the way).
    And 6) if Shadow goes Super Shadow, there is no fucking way in frozen hell that MewTwo could ever be “faster” than him because Super Shadow exists as an abstractial being that exists throughout all of time and 1/3rd of all possible timelines. You cannot be “faster” than someone who observes all-of-time as an instant instead of as a sequence of events. The only way it is possilbe is if the “faster” person exists beyond time, which is frankly outside of MewTwo’s abilities.

    @Envoy: Shadow preforms the Lightspeed Dash in both Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06. In both cases a trail of rings is used, but in StH it is more or less implied that the rings are pure game mechanic as Shadow can backtrack to were he previously collected a trail of rings via LSD and use the LSD again even though there are only “grey rings” there instead of gold rings (the differance being that grey rings are placeholders for the gold rings that allow the LSD and to prevent players from farming rings; grey rings are basically LSD paths that don’t give you heath). So Shadow can very much so still hit C without altering time.

  83. Darkbladex96 May 21, 2010 at 2:51 am -      #183

    “if Shadow goes Super Shadow, there is no fucking way in frozen hell”

    that should be put in a frame and preseved.

  84. Darkbladex96 May 21, 2010 at 2:54 am -      #184

    “and if spawn fails at being badass there is no badass character. spawn is so infinitely more badass then dante that the shit stains under spawns unholy toilet are more epic the dante.

    hell spawns powers are limited to his imagination, he could turn his 7 years worth of necrotic bad breath into a supernatural neurotoxin from hell and kill dante with halatosis.”

    this also should go in the hall of epic fanboy rants that are 100% true.

  85. T.T. May 21, 2010 at 3:28 pm -      #185

    @OA

    Apparently I didn’t make Trick Room clear to you.
    What it does is swap the two fighters speeds.
    So that Shadow now can only go Mewtwo level of speed, while Mewtwo gains Shadow’s level of speed. Also Mewtwo has a super powerful brain, so he does have a fast FLT reaction.
    But not that it matters as Shadow cannot go his famed speed anymore.
    As for Mewtwo being torn appart by going that speed is false.
    Since Mewtwo posess increadible telekinetic powers, he can prevent himself from being torn up with psy force feilds, which he could also just literaly hold himself together.
    But since Mewtwo can control how fast he goes, he go fast enough to outspeed Shadow who is stuck with Mewtwo’s old speed. Mewtwo can also teleport, which gives him a bigger
    chance of success.
    And how did you get from my other post that Mewtwo uses Disable to remove all Shadow’s
    Choas abbilites?
    I only said Mewtwo uses Disable to remove Choas Control, not every move such as Choas-
    Spear.
    Plus Shadow is burn up twice as much energy in everything he does thanks to Mewtwo’s pressure ability.
    And about Shadow’s inmortality: You may be right, but Shadow’s game contredics it the most because, neight Shadow or Sonic (or any of their friends) souldn’t have been able to kill
    Black Doom, since Shadow is made out of the same DNA as Black Doom.
    Shadow can be KOed just not killed (accepting he is inmortal), which Mewtwo can do to win.
    Even if you don’t execpt the fact Shadow can be KOed, what Mewtwo can do when he is tired out, is put him to sleep with Hypnosis and deep Freeze him with Ice Beam, then teleport him and himself to a cold place that always cold like space or deep in an ice cave or something
    similer to that, and leaving Shadow there.
    Since Mewtwo swaps his speed instanly with Shadow (all he has to do is think it to activate it)
    Shadow can then only travel at Mewtwo slowr pace as Mewtwo has his amazing speed.
    Plus Mewtwo can link two moves togeth to be used at the same time, thus taking Shadow’s
    speed and removing his move Choas Control with Disable.
    Also not forget Aura Sphere that cannot be dodged with speed, especailly since Shadow has Mewtwo’s old speed, will be easy for Mewtwo to hit with.
    Not to mention mind reading and a Vanish Seed that makes Mewtwo one way intangable.
    Shadow is a great guy so don’t get me wrong. No offence to anyone was intendid.

  86. OriginalA May 21, 2010 at 3:48 pm -      #186

    No doubt you will put forth evidence of MewTwo being able to break the laws of physics by reacting faster than light, as well as his body being able to sustain the strain of infinate acceleration. Since, you know, there is no type of mass that should be able to survive that kind of strain according to physics and MewTwo only gains Shadow’s speed; not his body’s material make up, which defies physics.

    MewTwo also still must use Trick Room. Prior to succesfully hitting with Trick Room, MewTwo will still be a snail’s crawl next to Shadows absolute speed and total chrono manipulation.

    Shadow’s ability to also teleport (including between diminsions) makes M2′s ability seem are mere parity instead of an actual advantage.

    Black Doom isn’t Shadow. Thus it is folly to assume that Black Doom’s immortality is equal to Shadow’s own. Black Doom may have been Biologically Immortal (won’t die naturally but can still be murdered, which Shadow did to him), but Shadow’s own immortality is stated to be of the true “completely incapable of dieing by any means” kind.

    Also you are assuming that Disable can block an attack that warps reality to the point of having control over time and space, and ability that Shadow was explicately designed for.

    Personally, I don’t see how MewTwo can possibly hope to even start pulling off all of this without Shadow either A) hitting him at the speed of light, B) teleporting him into the nearest star, C) teleporting him into the next dimension, D) stopping time and snapping his neck, E) tossing him into the future where Shadow can be waiting for him with a follow up attack, F) ascending space/time and become abstract beyond MewTwo’s comprehension, or G) shooting him in the head. … maybe not so much G as all of the other reasons, but.. yeah.

  87. SheikX August 2, 2010 at 5:48 am -      #187

    im sorry but shadow cant move at the speed of light, super shadow maybe but this fight is shadow vs mewtwo. super shadow would wipe the floor with mewtwo, theres no two ways about that. but if you guys can prove to me that he can move at the speed of light without the help of a line of rings, ill think shadow has this. but until then mewtwo has this
    shadow may have chaos control but mewtwo has a move called skill swap that switches the user’s ablity with the opponent, so shadow would have pressure and mewtwo would have chaos control. after that shadow stands no chance. and no shadows speed has nothing to do with it. try saying skill swap…. good, now say chaos control….. witch one was faster to say? plus the fact that mewtwo only has to think it witch is considerably faster
    and also mewtwo could take a hit from a move that is moveing at the speed of light. mewtwos defence in pokemon is considderably good in comparison to others, might not be any bastiodon but he could still get the job done. theres a move called draco meteor, and what that does is summons a comets from the sky, witch in theroey would destroy most of the planet, due to heat and pressure caused, and most pokemon can take this hit like its nothing, okay thats a lie its a fairly devistating attack but with a pokemon like mewtwo whos has pretty good stats all around can survive this impact pretty well.
    also theres an item called the focus band, (or focus skarf its been about a year since ive acctually played pokemon) witch allows the pokemon to survive what would normally be a 1 hit KO with 1 life, so that gives plenty of time for mewtwo to skill swap, chaos control, and recover. then a simple blanking of shadows mind. and mewtwo wins

  88. Siggymansz August 2, 2010 at 6:59 am -      #188

    “im sorry but shadow cant move at the speed of light, super shadow maybe but this fight is shadow vs mewtwo”

    Pfft what??? are you Serious?
    Shadow Can move at C. Super Shadow CAN Move Past C

    “line of rings”
    Game Mechanic

    “skill swap that switches the user’s ablity with the opponent, so shadow would have pressure and mewtwo would have chaos control. ”

    No Comment

    “also theres an item called the focus band, (or focus skarf its been about a year since ive acctually played pokemon) witch allows the pokemon to survive what would normally be a 1 hit KO with 1 life”

    Prove its Standard Equip.

    “so that gives plenty of time for mewtwo to skill swap, chaos control, and recover. then a simple blanking of shadows mind. and mewtwo wins”

    No No it doesn’t Not By a Long Shot

  89. Blood Dancer August 2, 2010 at 7:08 am -      #189

    ““also theres an item called the focus band, (or focus skarf its been about a year since ive acctually played pokemon) witch allows the pokemon to survive what would normally be a 1 hit KO with 1 life”

    Prove its Standard Equip.”

    Oh I can do that. It ain’t that focus band/skarf is either found or bought (can’t recall which). Besides the only item that Mewtwo has on him is a berry (can’t remember which one because i haven’t played pokemon since Crystal came out). Yeah, I found out when I traded Mewtwo from the 1st generation Red game to my Silver game

  90. Blood Dancer August 2, 2010 at 7:09 am -      #190

    “It ain’t that focus band/skarf is either found or bought (can’t recall which).”

    oops, My bad. grammar mistake:

    “It ain’t. that focus band/skarf is either found or bought (can’t recall which).”

    That’s how it should be read

  91. SheikX August 2, 2010 at 7:27 am -      #191

    www.serebii.net/diamondpearl/items.shtml
    its called focus sash, my bad

    as for the speed of light, prove it plz, if you can prove it you have my full support on shadow. and believe me i want to, i like shadow alot more than mewtwo (i wish we were talking about gallade (XD, im joking gallade would get creamed by shadow)), but untill i can see some proof that shadow can move at the speed of light, on a dime, my moneys on mewtwo

  92. SheikX August 2, 2010 at 7:31 am -      #192

    my bad i misiterpreted “standard equip” i assumed it ment a standard item that a pokemon, probly one owned by a trainer,
    but be that a it may,mewtwo has no wild item hold

  93. overlord August 2, 2010 at 7:33 am -      #193

    You know, I’m pretty sure shadow uses guns. . .

  94. Laharl August 2, 2010 at 8:16 am -      #194

    The match ends when mewtwo throws a masterball at Shadow and catches him.
    Hey you never know if it can catch a riceball?
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdd3KzKgjtE
    It might be able to catch shadow.

  95. eza August 9, 2010 at 12:09 pm -      #195

    yeah im pritty sure shadow cant move at the speed of sound there is alot of times when shadow has to yous chaos controll to keep up with sonic. im just saying. but shadow has no need for a choas emerald to use there powers so w/ chaos controll/blast/spear and any other abilitys that requir endless and inf power.

    shadow +1?

  96. Darkbladex96 August 9, 2010 at 12:30 pm -      #196

    wow some of you people know so little of sonic and shadow…..when shadow uses light speed attack he is moving lightspeed…aka C. supershadow is an abstract. and plain ol shadow can move at infinite speed via time stop. shadow and sonic have light speed reflexes. mewtwo has nothing to even compare.

    and shadow has never needed to use choas control to deal with any aspect of sonic, he uses choas control because hes good at it..its a defining feature of his character.

  97. OriginalA August 9, 2010 at 12:54 pm -      #197

    Numerious official sources state that Shadow can keep up with Sonic with raw speed alone thanks to his jet boots / hover skates. Sonic’s official top cruising speed.is in the hypersonic range (mach 5 and higher) ergo Shadow can easily break the speed of sound.

    Also your claim blatently ignores the fact that Shadow has the Lightspeed Attack which is stated to move at Lightspeed, which is of course faster than sound also.

    Sonic Battle actually considered Shadow to be faster than Sonic (although all other games either have them as equals or Sonic being faster).

    Anyways, Shadow can, according to the canon, break the sound barrier without Chaos Control to artificially inflate his appearant speed.

    Since SheikX is asking for proof of speed of light feats for Shadow:
    info.sonicretro.org/File:SA2BGC_US_manual_0008.jpg
    Description of the Ancient Light: Enables Shadow to preform the Light Attack to destroy numerious enemies at LIGHT SPEED.

    Shadow, in his base form, can move at the speed of light.

    Since Shadow can actually think faster than he can move (as he would have to in order to aim that attack) that means he can think FTL. Now in Sonic Heroes he is also shown to carry around a fake Chaos Emerald (it has to be fake as all the real ones are accounted for at the time) to allow himself to use Chaos Control, which can stop time. So if it is not enough that Shadow can achieve a perceived time stop via moving at relativistic speeds, he can also just cause time to stop moving. period.

    And he is still immortal, and for once I’m not talking about biological immortality where someone could still die if they were killed; Shadow the Hedgehog has been explictely stated to be unable to be killed and he does not age. That kinda makes this match unwinnable for MewTwo.

  98. eza August 9, 2010 at 1:40 pm -      #198

    yeah the fact that shadow is imortal and he can move at light speed along with chaos powers w/o an emerald makes shadow win this with out a dout. altho alot of pokemon have neat abilitys but the fact of how hard a 77lb thing moveing at light speed would hurt, it would be absolutly fatal along with the face that shadow can stop time and create waves of energy. mewtwo dose have recover,an massive amount of damageing attacks along with attacks that can, confuse and weaken shadow but the ability to fire spears of pure unlimited energy through any foe and the fact that shadow never uses these one at a time he ushaly uses them in sets of 12 or 21. either way.

  99. jeremy August 14, 2010 at 8:25 pm -      #199

    how about the at mewtwo blew up a whole island without even trying and survived,and mewtwo would know shadow was coming b4 he ever got there,therefore he would be waiting for him,and be ready to destroy him the second he got there,us psychic powers to stop him on the spot b4 he can evn attack,and then blow shadow up just as he did the island in the movie,therefore shadow would be destroyed,and mewtwo the winner,shadow dosnt stand a chance against mewtwo,and if need be,mewtwo would just take over shadows mind,and destroy him while he cant fight back,his mind control as used in the movie on the nurse

  100. bgp August 17, 2010 at 5:04 pm -      #200

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiTJPOx_WiE
    4:50
    Trying to control shadow? And his mind? Black Doom already tried…but we see how controlable shadow is…and black doom even has the same blood as shadow!
    Also, shadow survived falling back to the planet from space, so yea… btw shadow can use chaos control to escape the attacks, or just simply run outa the way. As we all kno, speed+power in pokemon=win. shadow has both lol

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