Mewtwo Vs Shadow the Hedgehog

Mewtwo Vs Shadow the Hedgehog

Making his first appearance on BankGambling is Shadow the Hedgehog and he’s been matched up against a pretty tough opponent. From all that I’ve heard, Mewtwo is one of the strongest Pokemon around, and while Shadow has some interesting powers too, I’m not sure how long this match would last.

Who wins?

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261 Comments on "Mewtwo Vs Shadow the Hedgehog"

  1. bluffh0o May 8, 2009 at 3:38 am -      #1

    MEWTWO CAN DESTROY WORLD – SHADOW HAS NO CHANCE

  2. Thepocalypse May 8, 2009 at 6:12 am -      #2

    Mewtwo has this one down. He’s been shown to be capable of teleporting, firing energy blasts, etc. so he can outmatch Shadow when you add his nigh-invincible forcefield, levitation, and mind control.

  3. Space marine May 8, 2009 at 7:38 am -      #3

    I think mewtwo wins this but not easily.

  4. Spellca May 8, 2009 at 8:16 am -      #4

    That depends…does Shadow have all the Chaos Emeralds? If so…then this fight will go on for a good long time but if not then Mewtwo would just utilize his vast Psychic powers to stop Shadow in his tracks.

    But…with the Chaos Emeralds…Shadow can utilize something called “Chaos Control” which is basically teleportation. This would allow Shadow to shoot around and dodge psychic blasts, shadow balls and telekinetic holds. But even with that…Mewtwo would wear him down eventually.

  5. AlbertWikowonkavitz May 8, 2009 at 10:42 am -      #5

    Mew-Two wins. Shadow can’t fly, levitate things, or put a force field bubble around himself as far as I know…

  6. Battra Boy May 8, 2009 at 4:57 pm -      #6

    Thanks, Another one of my suggestions posted! :D

    Personally, I think they’re both pretty badass. But in terms of powers, I’m going with Mewtwo. With his vast array of telekinetic powers, I don’t think this would last very long.

  7. Marche May 8, 2009 at 5:13 pm -      #7

    Mewtwo wins.
    Although give shadow a emerald and he rapes.

  8. Cpt Olimar May 8, 2009 at 6:31 pm -      #8

    would the outcome be any different if it was sonic with the emeralds….

  9. OriginalA May 8, 2009 at 7:11 pm -      #9

    Shadow can use his Chaos powers including Chaos Control without a Chaos Emerald. Sonic Battle, Sonic 06, Sonic Rivals, and Sonic Rivals 2 show this. His body is nearly indestructable and Sega themselves say that Shadow “cannot be killed”.

    www2.sega.com/gamesite/sonicnext/sonicnext_full/index.php

    It is in Shadow’s profile under “Story” > “Characters” > “Shadow”

    Shadow also beat Silver, who is telekinetic, by being too fast for Silver to react to. I don’t know how fast MewTwo reacts though so that may be moot.

    If Shadow does have an emerald he becomes able to teleport between dimensions (Sonic Rivals 2) as well as carry a person with him during teleportation (also Sonic Rivals 2). Shadow could just dump Mewtwo in another dimension and be done with him in that case.

    All that said it doesn’t protect him from mind tricks. In Sonic Rivils 2 Silver is able to confuse all the characters by using ESP (that is reverse the controls for player charaters). So Mewtwo could mess him up pretty badly with mind rape tactics. Considering what Mewtwo is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Shadow’s mind gets shattered some time during the fight if Mewtwo can actually get passed the Mach 1+ speed blitz.

  10. Albert Wikowonkavitz May 8, 2009 at 8:24 pm -      #10

    You know, this is kind of odd, we have two of the darkest characters from two generally bright and cheerful game series…well, Sonic used to be, anywise…

  11. Dracosphinx May 8, 2009 at 11:28 pm -      #11

    Shadow is so fast that it looks like he’s teleporting. Mewtwo had a hard time following the original Mew, so I doubt that with all the rage at not being able to hit his target mind-rape is out of the question. Mewtwo can’t move as fast, nor would he be able to focus long enough on shadow to even get a grip on shadow. Shadow is the fastest being on the planet, second only to The Flash. Plus you add guns to the mix and you’ve got a bullet-ridden cat…dog…otter…thing.

  12. Dracosphinx May 8, 2009 at 11:30 pm -      #12

    shadow was engineered to be the ultimate life form, but so was mewtwo. what we need is a universe battle with sonic and pokemon

  13. Cpt Olimar May 9, 2009 at 12:24 am -      #13

    All sonic canon references that sonic is faster than shadow no? I thought I read it on wiki…
    Unless you mean the flash to be sonic…

  14. Scenario May 9, 2009 at 1:21 am -      #14

    Mewtwo can control the weather through sheer psychic force. He can manipulate things without having to see them. Mew managed to fight back because it’s the original, and it’s power rivals Mewtwo’s.

    He actually can teleport, but Shadow can, too. But Mewtwo generated a shield that not only blocked a Magneton’s Thunder, an Alakazam’s Psychic, and a Garydos’s Hyper Beam, it sent them back to the source with enough power to defeat them. Bullets, or even a Chaos Spear, will not work.

  15. Albert Wikowonkavitz May 9, 2009 at 2:10 am -      #15

    Guns…

    Forcefields. :P I almost did say that.

    Why does the ultimate lifeform need guns?

  16. JoshMcFace May 9, 2009 at 9:11 am -      #16

    I think Shadow would confuse Mewtwo for a while, but then the Pokemon could put up a psychic shield, which would stop most of Shadow’s attacks completely.
    www2.sega.com/gamesite/sonicnext/sonicnext_full/index.php to me to an advert for the Sonic the Hedgehog game. They made it look pretty good. Shame it absolutely failed in every possible way.

  17. Marche May 9, 2009 at 11:27 am -      #17

    “even a Chaos Spear, will not work.”
    Those 3 attacks dont have much on the chaos spear.

  18. Dracosphinx May 9, 2009 at 2:34 pm -      #18

    now lets take a look-see at one of shadow’s trademark attacks, Chaos Blast. It’s powerful enough to kill an entire platoon of black arms, lets him shoot indefinately, and when he has chaos control he can move faster than any being on the planet.

  19. Battra Boy May 10, 2009 at 7:28 am -      #19

    Well, Mewtwo congured a storm that was going to wipe out the world, by just rotating his hand. Mewtwo and Shadow are two of my favourite characters of all time, but I think Mewtwo would have this one. His powers are truly insane, he could beat most characters without even moving.

  20. JoshMcFace May 10, 2009 at 7:56 am -      #20

    The thing is with Mewtwo, we never get to see the full extent of it’s power, unlike Shadow who is often pushed to his limits.
    In the first movie Mewtwo is only fighting Mew for a few minutes, whereas in Mewtwo Returns, it is holding back it’s power in an attempt to remain peaceful. However from what we have seen, Mewtwo is able to effortlessly create massive storms, block extremely powerful attacks, use advanced psychic powers, destroy buildings in rage without tiring, and create your standard destructive blasts.
    Yet if you look at the Pokemon games, Mewtwo is in the same tier as the deities of time and space and the guardians of the Earth.

  21. OriginalA May 10, 2009 at 9:27 am -      #21

    And when we last saw Shadow at his limit he was fighting, and beating, a superdimensional, omni-chronological being that consumed time. Think about that for a second. He fought a being that exists at all points in time yet the being itself preceives all points in time as the Present; it isn’t able to decern Past and Future because such concepts do not apply to it as it is already currently living those moments as well. Granted he had help, but that is only because unlike Solaris, Shadow exists only in the here and now rather than all time simultaniously. His limit isn’t something to be underestimated even though he have seen him being pushed closer to his limit then Mewtwo has been.

    Statistically speaking how does Mewtwo compare to the deity pokemon? Is his stats all round higher, or are some of them equal or sub par compared to the top tier pokemon?

  22. JoshMcFace May 10, 2009 at 3:42 pm -      #22

    In what show was that? Sounds pretty awesome. I’m not saying Shadow’s limits are unimpressive, just that Mewtwo’s are yet to be seen.
    Mewtwo’s total stats are equal to all three deities, as all four’s add up to 680. The three deities have differing stats within themselves, but using Dialga (deity of time) as an example, Mewtwo has significantly higher speed and slightly higher hp and special attack, whereas Dialga has higher higher defensive capabilities and higher physical attack. To put it simply, they are in the same tier.

  23. OriginalA May 10, 2009 at 5:53 pm -      #23

    The feats that Shadow did happened in Sonic 06. It was the final battle where Sonic, Silver, and Shadow fought Solaris during the Present, Future, and Past all at the same time. Shadow states that the only way to defeat Solaris is to defeat him simultaniously in all three abstracts of time (which doesn’t make sense as Past and Future is considerably longer than a single moment so how did Silver and Shadow fight for all those moments at one time?), and the only way to do that is with three characters who just so happen to be of roughly equal strength of Solaris; which is where the “Super” transformation comes in to play.

    If you don’t mind could you look for a stat that Mewtwo has higher than any other pokemon? Or is that speed, since you didn’t mention anyone being faster than him? Still being faster than the time pokemon; that is definately going to help Mewtwo in this fight where Speed is key.

    Shadow, by definition, is capable of reaching Lightspeed without assistance during the Lightspeed Attack, and is able to use a Time Slow with Chaos Control. So Mewtwo might still have a ways to go if he is going to avoid a blitz attack.

    I’m still rooting for Mewtwo though. I want to see him win, but Sonic characters often have BS feats of improbability, and that isn’t even including the comics where they get even more overpowered. (LOL I’ll just vibrate through a solid wall!, but that was Sonic.) Frankly speaking I think debates should only use the games as a source, but I also don’t can too much about pokemon canon. That and I still think Shadow is too BS overpowered to be beaten without some major luck.

    Mewtwo does have a Luck stat right? I wanna see some serious mind screwing here!! Ahh psychic characters are so cool.

  24. JoshMcFace May 13, 2009 at 5:05 am -      #24

    Mewtwo has a higher special attack than any other Pokemon, apart from Deoxys in Attack Forme who trades in it’s defense (lowering it to about 20 in comparison to Mewtwo’s 90) for special attack of 180. The only Pokemon with higher stats overall than Mewtwo (and any other Pokemon for that matter) is Arceus.

    Competitive Mewtwos are usually trained to focus on their special attack and speed, with a normal set of moves for an all out attacker being something like… Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Calm Mind and Aura Sphere.

    You could also put the move Recover in there in place of something else, which would allow Mewtwo to heal up to half its HP. However, in Mewtwo’s anime appearances, it has only been shown to use Psychic, Barrier, Counter, Swift, Hyper Beam and Shadow Ball, which is most likely due to lack of a trainer. Although it was also able of wiping memories, brainwashing, creating storms etc.

    Although the game claims Dialga to be slower in battle, the anime would probably show otherwise. In the anime Dialga can simply roar and make time go backwards, Palkia can drag towns into alternate dimensions with its presence and Arceus can destroy cities in its rage.

  25. Darth inVaders May 18, 2009 at 3:26 pm -      #25

    To OriginalA:

    Actually Shadow (or anyone else in the games) does not have the ability to use Chaos Control without a Chaos Emerald’s power (either from an actual Emerald or an equivalent like a fake Emerald).

    – Black Doom says nothing about using CC without CEs; he only says the power of CC increases in correlation with the increase in # of CEs. Therefore 0 CEs = 0 CC, 1 CE = x1 CC, 3 CEs = x3 CC, and 7 CEs = full power CC.

    – Shadow doesn’t mention CC when he says he no longer needs his CE in Sonic Battle, another possibility among the many that can be drawn is that Shadow was using it as a crutch for his injury earlier and is saying he no longer needs it.

    – Gameplay is not cannon as Sonic Team will take shortcuts to enhance the fun factor of the gameplay; to argue that gameplay is canon is to argue that Amy Rose really can turn invisible like Espio the Chameleon and Cream the Rabbit has super strength being able to lift Big the Cat (who weighs 280 kg which is 616 pounds or over a quarter of a ton). Heck they were so unsure of what to screw up in canon in Sonic Heroes that they gave Shadow a new 8th CE for his CC in the the Team Blast when there should only be 7.

    Quotes from cutscenes & official bios (including recent ones like Sonic06 & Rivals) heavily favor needing Emerald power, as they make no sense if it wasn’t needed:
    -“With a Chaos Emerald, I control time and space” – Shadow in Sonic 2006
    -“Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control…” – Sonic Rivals website
    -“He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds” – Sonic Channel (translated using Google Translation)
    -“It’s not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp” – Sonic in SA2
    -“It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn’t it? But… there’s no way you could have activated the Chaos Control… using an Emerald that’s fake.” – Shadow in SA2
    -“Shadow has a special ability called ‘Chaos Control’ which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds” – Sonic Adventure 2 manual
    – “…and can use a technique known as ‘Chaos Control’ to distort time & space using Chaos Emeralds.” – Sonic Heroes manual

    So here is the most important part: why does Shadow & others appear to use CC without CEs in some cutscenes? Because the power of the CEs can be drawn out without being physically touched. This is evident in:
    – Black Doom needed a full power CC (which means he needed ALL 7 CEs) to warp the Black Comet down to Earth, but he never touches an Emerald as they float nearby.
    – Multiple Super forms exist without constant physical contact.
    – With the CEs nearby but never touching any, Biolizard CCs from the Eclipse Cannon’s core all the way down to the tip of the cannon itself (which if you watch the first movie of SA2’s last story, you’ll see a map of ARK showing how great a distance it was – a whole area the height of the core itself had to be warped though just to get to the base, then the entire distance of the cannon itself).
    – Shadow saved Rouge by warping them both off of Prison Island (how far he must have had to go) with CC while Rouge was holding 3 CEs but Shadow doesn’t touch any.
    – The power of the Emeralds has been shown to affect all of South Island which is obviously not a small place (this was explained in the Japanese manuals of the original games).

    Sonic X, made with strong oversight by Sonic Team (unlike the Archie comics), agrees with all of this. According to his Sonic X bio, Shadow “has the ability to create Chaos Control with just one Chaos Emerald.” And he never uses CC without CEs (or fake CEs) nearby during the entire course of the series. Furthermore, Sonic X shows CEs’ power being drawn out from distances – during episodes 46: Sonic Vs Shadow during their Super Transformation, a Meterex is holding 2 of the Emeralds when both change, and in episode 77: Cosmo’s Work both are already Super but the Emeralds are still visible behind them.

    So with gameplay not being canon and those Black Doom & Battle quotes debunked, all that is left is Shadow’s opening in Sonic 06 where it appears that he uses CC without CEs nearby. But this is made in CG and not rendered by the game’s engine – therefore a different set of animators. And Sonic Team has farmed out CG work in the past (for example the Duck Corp & ATI), so a simple mis-communication could easily explain it with such an already messily produced game and so much info running contrary to it.

    Although if this is the Archie comics version of Shadow, that would be different, as he has some sort of direct access to the “Chaos Force” (which doesn’t exist in the games or Sonic X).

    Mewtwo would probably beat an Emerald-less games Shadow, but if Shadow had all 7 Emeralds it would be a great fight.

  26. x on May 18, 2009 at 4:01 pm -      #26

    Mewtwo for the win.

  27. OriginalA May 18, 2009 at 4:03 pm -      #27

    During Sonic Battle Shadow uses Chaos powers (not Chaos Control) without the presance of an Emerald.

    During Sonic Rivals Shadow uses Chaos Control to slow time without the presence of an Emerald.

    During Sonic: The Dark Brotherhood Shadow uses Chaos powers again without an Emerald.

    During Sonic Heroes Shadow uses Chaos Control to slow time without an Emerald.

    Sonic 06 intro for Shadow shows him teleporting without the presence of an Emerald.

    I’m seeing a pattern here. Shadow can use Chaos powers including Chaos Control without Chaos Emeralds.

    Ignoring gameplay elements is just as folly as ignoring cutscenes. They are relevent, even if they are not explained. Perhaps next you will tell me that Tails cannot fly because it is a miscommunication from within the development team and that he was sappose to be female mink?

    Perhaps maybe we should ignore the fact that the games are CANON. They dictate CANON. That what is in the games in CANON. And since you seem to want to ignore that FACT, maybe Shadow should be allowed to shoot lasers from his eyes and fire from butt.

    It is rediculous it ignore established canon simply because it is anomlous. Where it only from a single game that would be one thing, but this is from every single game that Shadow has been in except his debut game. These are his powers according to canon; to ignore that is to strip a character of abilities that he has every right to utilise.

  28. Darth inVaders May 18, 2009 at 7:25 pm -      #28

    So Cream the Rabbit can lift a quarter of a ton character and Amy can pull off Espio’s main move for no apparent reason?

    Actually Shadow was given an unexplained extra 8th Chaos Emerald when he used Chaos Control in Sonic Heroes (a plothole since there should only be 7 Emeralds and further proof that gameplay is not canon).

    Did you even read my post? Only cutscenes are canon – which means only one time during a very messy game has Shadow used Chaos Control without an Emerald

  29. Scenario May 18, 2009 at 9:23 pm -      #29

    Mewtwo can use Disable to prevent Shadow from using Chaos Control. Using Future Sight, he can bypass any defenses by attacking later. Should Shadow use the Chaos Emeralds to power up, Mewtwo can copy the increase with Psych Up or steal it with Power Swap. Safeguard and Mist prevent status effects (like a time stop?) and ability reduction, and Recover allows him to heal.

    In the Anime/Movies, he was capable of reflecting attacks back at their source with additional power. He did this against a Flamethrower, Thunder, Hyper Beam, and Psychic, without being harmed at all. He also teleported several Pokemon plus a few million gallons of water underground, while at the same time doing a mass memory wipe.

    I think Mewtwo can win this.

  30. Cpt Olimar May 18, 2009 at 10:17 pm -      #30

    too bad disable misses so much QQ (that’s supposed to be crying eyes)
    I think that shadow could avoid/be immune to a simple ability like disable. Also I question his ability to deflect attacks as powerful as shadow’s.

    However, I still don’t really know who would win.

  31. OriginalA May 18, 2009 at 11:06 pm -      #31

    I never doubted Mewtwo’s ability to win this. I’m just pointing out that Shadow can use Chaos abilities without Chaos Emeralds.

    Oh in the last fight of Sonic vs Shadow in SA2 Shadow uses Chaos Spears without a Chaos Emerald. So Shadow has broken Darth inVader’s law of “no emeralds = no chaos power”.

    To ignore gameplay is a crime especially when there is so much more gameplay than cutscenes. If we apply the same reasoning to Mewtwo then he gets significantly less if you disregard all other sources besides the original canon sourse (the games).

    Also, since Cream can already hit Mach 1 (Sonic Advance 2) I wouldn’t put it past her ability to lift 500 lbs.

    A final note on dittermining canon for Shadow. You, Darth inVader, are not an authority on the matter. I am not an authority on the matter. Neither of us can say what is and what is not canon. SEGA is an authority on the matter. SEGA can and can not say what is and what is not canon for Sonic games. SEGA made all the games with Shadow in them and in each and every one of them he did not obey the rule that you decided was canon. I’m inclined to listen to SEGA on this more than I am inclined to listen to you.

    SEGA has shown a number of times that Shadow can do these things. If he could not do these things then why has he been able to do them in EACH AND EVERY SINGLE GAME?! If SEGA didn’t want Shadow to be able to do these things then he simply wouldn’t be able to do them.

    Unless you can get a statement from SEGA that says “the gameplay is wrong. Shadow cannot do that” then it is a perfectly acceptable and applicable ability.

    You cannot disregard gameplay on the notion that it doesn’t fit the established canon perfectly because more often then not there are plot holes in everything. If that gameplay is disregarded then that sometimes makes getting to the next cutscene impossible, which in turn Charlie Foxtrots the rest of the “cutscene canon” for the rest of the series.

    As for Amy’s invisablilty, well, I don’t have much a reply for that one. Maybe Tails worked up a cloaking devise for her so she wouldn’t get captured as easily anymore, and she has been shown to be more competant now. On top of that Sonic characters gain abilities for practically no reason what so ever all the time. Why single this one out?

    Why not Knuckle’s ability to swim(Advance)?
    Charmy’s teleportation(Heroes)?
    Knuckle’s ability to throw fire balls(Rivals)?
    Silver’s ESP (Rivals/at first he only had telekenisis; now he has both)?
    Silver’s increased running speed(Rivals)?
    Metal Sonic’s on/off ability to talk(various)?
    Omega’s ability to curel into a ball(Heroes)?
    Tails’s Thunder Shoot ability (Heroes.. I think) when he is able to generate electric charges for absolutely no reason at all?
    Metal Sonic’s ability to use ESP, Bat Guard, and Croma-Cammo, when by all rights he shouldn’t be able to use mental powers, summon bats, or turn invisable due to changing pigments(Rivals)?

    Sonic characters gain abilities all the time. Usually without explination. You just want to ignore that because they don’t usually use them during cutscenes. I accept them because SEGA, who is once again the authority on the subject, included them in the games and said games are canon to the subject universe.

    I could point out that the feats that Mewtwo displayed in the movies have less canon support than the feats that I have listed for Shadow since Mewtwo’s feats don’t appear in the games, which are the original canon source and by extension the primary authority on the subject matter. I’m not going to argue that point however as this site seems to regard just about every source of matterial as canon fact so long as it has an official label associated with it (Except Star Wars EU for some reason).

    I should point out that in the additional sources (comics, tv adaptations, ect) Shadow once again displays the ability to use Chaos powers including Chaos Control without the aid of Chaos Emeralds.

  32. Darth inVaders May 18, 2009 at 11:44 pm -      #32

    Well, technically the gameplay of the final Sonic vs Shadow of SA2 didn’t violate the established rules of Chaos Control as Sonic had that fake Emerald, as I also pointed out that it is possible to draw the power of the Chaos Emeralds without physical contact (only being within a certain distance is needed).

    The only other media Shadow has been in are the Archie comics and Sonic X tv show. While it is true (as I said in my first post) that Shadow has access to the ‘Chaos Force’ in Archie comics, it is not true in Sonic X – which has greater oversight by Sonic Team than Archie. In Sonic X, Shadow is never shown using any Chaos powers without at least one Emerald nearby. Even his Sonic X bio says Shadow “has the ability to create Chaos Control with just one Chaos Emerald” – that’s because it was originally thought in the show that all 7 caused Chaos Control, not just one, but Shadow proved only one is needed.

    But hey, as long as you admit its a big plothole since it contradicts itself with so many profiles and even spoken dialog in cutscenes saying otherwise, fine – believe what you want. I never claimed to be some kind of authority. I just felt it was so obvious that Sonic Team would ignore rules and such to make the gameplay more fun. Although I don’t buy declaring gamplay non-canon makes it impossible to get from one cutscene to the next. (Man, I can’t believe anyone would actually think Cream can run that fast or lift that much)

  33. TheSorrow May 18, 2009 at 11:56 pm -      #33

    …..Uhhhh…..I really don’t know what I could say about this match. It’s just too odd for me to even begin commenting. These characters are just way too different form each other.

  34. OriginalA May 19, 2009 at 1:10 am -      #34

    Consider this. If Cream couldn’t run that fast then she wouldn’t be able to catch up to the bosses in Sonic Advance 2. With out her being able to progress, Sonic cannot obtain all the Chaos Emeralds in that game. Without all the emeralds in that game the final level cannot be accessed. Without that level being accessed the plot cannot advance beyond that point from now on.

    Congradulations you got the Sonic U permanantly stuck at the tail end of Sonic Advance 2 till the end of time or untill Cream can run at Mach 1.

    Take away Samus’s Morphball in Zero Mission (the first canoncal game now) which she acquires in gameplay and is not shown in cutscene and she suddenly cannot even get to the first boss. You shut down the entire metroid franchies.

    Super Mario Bros. … doesn’t even have cutscenes until the end so if all gameplay is non-canon how is Mario sappose to get there?

    How about the early Sonic games in general when there were no cutscenes? Great! Now Sonic never met Amy, so I guess she is just a non-canon character than somehow keeps sneaking into the other games somehow huh? But WAIT she DOES appear in cutscenes in the later games so Sonic MUST have met her in Sonic CD during gameplay so gameplay MUST be canon unless you are claiming the entire series beyond one of the earliest released games is non-canon.

    Claiming gameplay is non-canon has severe consequences to a GAME series when GAMEPLAY is around 85% of the entire content.

    Argueing against Gameplay Mechanics however is sound, but unapplicable in this case.

    The moment you declaired gameplay as non-canon you aserted youself as an authority on the subject. You are not; your arguement is fallacious.

    I quote:”Gameplay is not cannon as Sonic Team will take shortcuts to enhance the fun factor of the gameplay;”

    While Sonic Team may indeed create plot holes to enhance the fun factor, you are still not an authority on the matter. Shadow still gets his Chaos abilities.

    Another thing. Just because some characters have used Chaos abilities by “taping into the Chaos Emerald’s powers from a distance” doesn’t mean Shadow can. It is quite possible for these same sequences to support my conclusion in that the Chaos powers are natural abilities and only amplified by the Emeralds.

    Shadow himself expresses disbelief at Sonic’s ability to use a fake Emerald to trigger a teleportation; one could assume that Shadow may not be able to draw out power from a fake emerald and thus believe that Sonic could not either (which would also debunk your theory).

    Also what makes you think that Shadow doesn’t carry a fake emerald with him at all times? You pointed out that he has an 8th emerald. Tails can produce fake emeralds that Sonic has shown to allow for Chaos abilities to be used. Shadow has used Chaos powers without an obvious “canon” emerald in his possesion several times throughout the series. One could deduce that if Shadow cannot use these powers without an emerald then he must have an emerald. If he does not have a real emerald then he must have an emerald that works similiarly. Since fake emeralds work similiarly then Shadow could have such and emerald with him at all times.

    Either way Shadow still gets his powers.

  35. Scenario May 19, 2009 at 10:18 am -      #35

    Both were genetically engineered to the strongest in their universes. Mewtwo and Shadow are supposed to be the world’s strongest Pokemon and the ultimate life form, respectively. Both also watched a little girl die and angsted about it for a while. Similar enough for a fight, I guess.

    But Mewtwo’s feats of reflection can be explained with a Pokemon move (that came after the movie, but whatever.), namely, Mirror Coat. It returns an opponent’s ranged attack with double the power, but requires the user get hit with the attack first. Mewtwo did this without taking any damage, probably with Barrier, which raises special defense. Or Protect, which blocks any attack.

    But if Shadow uses the Chaos Emeralds, he’s screwed. Psych up copies any enhancement to stats, including speed. Mewtwo just gained all the powers of the Chaos Emeralds, congratulations. The alternative is Power Swap and Guard Swap, in which Mewtwo steals the power from Shadow.

    NEXT UP, MEWTWO VS. SILVER.

  36. Cpt Olimar May 19, 2009 at 1:23 pm -      #36

    so mewtwo wins…. unless shadow tosses a masterball at him hahaha and then mewtwo would be helpless.

    Ok just kidding there though.

  37. Scenario May 19, 2009 at 11:12 pm -      #37

    If Shadow tries a Master Ball, Mewtwo will summon thousands of his own special pokeballs. The ones that caught all the Pokemon in the area and sent then to the cloning lab. They had eyes and were alive.

    I think I just proved Mewtwo is the strongest Pokemon ever, as he can summon pseudo Master Balls at will.

  38. JoshMcFace May 23, 2009 at 1:58 pm -      #38

    “I think I just proved Mewtwo is the strongest Pokemon ever, as he can summon pseudo Master Balls at will.”
    *nudges Arceus*

  39. marche May 23, 2009 at 5:52 pm -      #39

    if Shadow uses the Chaos Emeralds, he’s screwed. Psych up copies any enhancement to stats, including speed.

    only stats,he won’t have a connection to the chaos force.
    Nor would he be able to use it in time.

  40. Cpt Olimar May 23, 2009 at 9:56 pm -      #40

    considering mewtwo really isn’t immune to all pokemon attacks, wouldnt shadow be able to easily damage him with chaos emeralds.

  41. Scenario May 30, 2009 at 4:58 pm -      #41

    “considering mewtwo really isn’t immune to all pokemon attacks, wouldnt shadow be able to easily damage him with chaos emeralds.”
    Hm? Mewtwo was not only unaffected by Pokemon attacks, he reflected them back to their source with double the power. It’s a move called Mirror Coat, except it doesn’t block the attack. Mewtwo combined it with Protect or something. I’ll also note that Mewtwo can also learn Recover, so he can heal his wounds.

    Shadow can’t win this.

  42. Cpt Olimar May 30, 2009 at 9:08 pm -      #42

    “Mewtwo was not only unaffected by Pokemon attacks”

    my pikachu roflstomped mewtwo in the game. He seemed very vulnerable then to any pokemon’s attacks.

  43. JoshMcFace June 1, 2009 at 3:44 pm -      #43

    “my pikachu roflstomped mewtwo in the game. He seemed very vulnerable then to any pokemon’s attacks.”
    I think its safe to say the anime makes the Pokemon ridiculously more powerful. To the extent when Pikachu can beat a Rhydon, something supposedly immune to electric attacks, by repeatedly shooting electricity at its horn.

  44. Battra Boy June 1, 2009 at 4:07 pm -      #44

    Thats because they need to balance everything out. If Mewtwo was as powerful in the game as he was in the series/films then no one would ever be able to beat and/or capture him. For example, Shadow can be killed by basic humans in the videogame, but in the series he has immeasurable powers. =)

  45. chewie6000 June 1, 2009 at 5:16 pm -      #45

    The above has a point, think how many characters are leveled out in games compared to comics or.. well you get my drift. Take the hulk for example.. wait hold on im not even going there.

    Anywho’s i go for mewtwo, not really sure why but from what if seen of the movies hes pretty damn cool.

  46. Scenario June 1, 2009 at 9:36 pm -      #46

    In the games, Shadow is vulnerable to bullets. A mere two hits, one to deplete his rings, and another to kill him, is all it takes. It would seem he has nowhere near the endurance Mewtwo has, no? But wait, that’s a game mechanic. Same situation here.

    For instance, no psychic Pokemon would let itself be caught if it can simply use telekinesis to block pokeballs. Unless of course pokeballs are immune to psychic energy, but then that bumps the Pokemon tech level up considerably.

    Though now that I think about it, Giovanni put Mewtwo into a suit of armor that suppressed his powers to controllable levels. While wearing this suit, Mewtwo still blocked and reflected a Thunder, Fire Blast, and even a Hyper Beam. He also completely dominated an Alakazam, one of the most powerful psychic Pokemon, with trivial effort despite having his power greatly weakened.

    I still say Mewtwo wins.

  47. Cpt Olimar June 1, 2009 at 11:09 pm -      #47

    Well now we have to wonder… does an awful anime which has little to no thought put into it have more canon precedence than the games?

  48. OriginalA June 2, 2009 at 12:14 am -      #48

    That, Olimar, is exactly why I prefer to take evidence from the original source (in Pokemon’s case here the games) when there is a conflict of evidence between two officially sanctioned sources.

    If this is indeed the case for this fight (though given how the rest of this site seems to be run I doubt it will be) that would severely handicap MewTwo.

    My opinion on canon sources stems greatly from Halo; this has caused me to pretty much stay out of every MC vs topic on this site as this site prefers to cite the books over the games, even (especially) when the two directly conflict with each other.

  49. EnigmaJ June 2, 2009 at 2:09 am -      #49

    I believe the reason why those sources are used ( Books for Halo, and Anime for pokemon ) is because it allows to look beyond the game mechanics.

    If we were to look at the Halo games in general, then the Covenant plasma weaponry isn’t powerful enough to melt through flesh, armor plating, and wildlife. Masterchief instantly dies when enough force is applied to his back, etc. Have you seen how slow Masterchief runs in game? The books give us a clearer idea of how the stuff actually works

    In the case of pokemon, there are many things we can’t really use. I mean, I don’t see why anyone would compare a pokemon stats to another pokemon when trying to determine thier speed. For example, Raikou’s pokedex entry tells us he embodies the speed of lightning. And yet his speed stat is 115. Mewtwo’s speed is 130. Are we to assume then that Mewtwo is faster then lightning? If we look at pokemon from the games, it doesn’t matter how much any pokemon fight, the best they could do is knock out thier enemy. They do not have the strength required to actually kill an enemy.

    It never makes sense to use just a game for a canon source, because its balanced out for gameplay.

    “Well now we have to wonder… does an awful anime which has little to no thought put into it have more canon precedence than the games?”

    I mean, its not the best anime, but you have to remember its directed at young children. In fact, I used to watch the earlier seasons ( though I personally think the series has been going downhill ever since they reach Hoenn ). However, the anime gives us certain things we can’t make out from the games such as the power and destructive output of certain pokemon attacks and the speed pokemon can actually move at.

    I think for pokemon, a mixture of all canon sources should be used, as we see many different abilities from each. In the manga, we see that Gengar has the ability to capture and possess others, in the game Mystery Dungeon, we see that Rayquaza has enough juice to destroy an incoming meteor, in the movie, we see that Mewtwo has enough psychic ability to create large storms and inflict a mass memory wipe on others.

  50. Battra Boy June 5, 2009 at 4:28 pm -      #50

    Though now that I think about it, Giovanni put Mewtwo into a suit of armor that suppressed his powers to controllable levels. While wearing this suit, Mewtwo still blocked and reflected a Thunder, Fire Blast, and even a Hyper Beam. He also completely dominated an Alakazam, one of the most powerful psychic Pokemon, with trivial effort despite having his power greatly weakened.

    In one way, you are correct. But you missed out a couple of things. Although Mewtwo’s armour weakened his power. It was also being focused. Basically, these were the stages where Mewtwo was learning to control an use his powers. If he is capable of OHKOing some pretty powerful pokemon at an early stage in his learning, then his full potential could be pretty threatening. Although I am both a massive Mewtwo fan and a massive Shadow fan, I still say Mewtwo has this one in the bag.

  51. kid July 19, 2009 at 11:26 am -      #51

    shadow would win he could just dodge all of mewtwo’s attacks and then mewtwo would run out of pp and couldn’t use moves then shadow would finish him off

  52. Battra Boy July 19, 2009 at 3:43 pm -      #52

    You do realise PP (Power points) were incorporated into the pokemon Videogames for gameplay purposes right? If each pokemon had an unlimited ammount of attacks, pokemon like mewtwo would be unobtainable. And also, in the pokemon anime series, pokemon are depicted as being able to learn a lot more that four moves. PP is for ganeplay purposes only.

  53. Will August 26, 2009 at 11:02 pm -      #53

    Mewtwo has this one in the bag. He can block any of Shadow’s attacks, and send them back with twice the force, shadow cannot win.

  54. AHEM November 3, 2009 at 9:17 pm -      #54

    I might be a bit biased about this, since I’m not really what you’d call a fan of anything Sonic the Hedgehog, but I firmly believe that Mewtwo will take this one, especially if we accept that he can learn more than four moves and use them in battle.

    The most devestating would be Psych Up and Power Swap, as Scenario mentioned. If Mewtwo could successfully copy or steal Shadow’s Chaos powers, it would be all over. Even if that fails, Mewtwo could increase his stats exponentionally with moves like Calm Mind. Mewtwo with all his important stats increased to the maximum is absurdly powerful. He can drop other legendaries with a single hit.

    Stat-wise, Mewtwo is among the highest tier that exists among any group of Pokemon, a true uber. His stats, rounded out, are equal to Dialga, deity of time, Palkia the deity of space, and also Giratina. His rounded stats are even a little above Groundon and Kyogre, the embodiments of the land and the sea. I don’t think he’s quite as fast as Shadow, but for a Pokemon, he has a very high speed rating. His strongest stat is his special attack. Arceus, the god of all Pokemon, is the only one that surpasses him in raw stats.

    Interestingly, in Generation I, Mewtwo was even stronger than he is in modern games. His special defense was as high as his special attack, which made him pretty much impervious to any sort of elemental or psychic move of any sort. If his Generation I stats are counted, he would be even more powerful than Arceus. Really.

    Defense is a huge edge to Mewtwo. He can use Protect, which instantaneously covers him with an indestructible barrier that renders him invinciple for a short period of time.(Shadow would have a hard time speed-blitzing that, since Protect is always used first no matter how high the enemy’s speed is, even if the Pokemon is hacked to have 999 speed or something.) Healing, as was mentioned before, is also a big thing. Unless Shadow has a way to recover lost health/rings as well, Mewtwo may outlast him in the long run with Recover.

    There are loads and loads of further ways Mewtwo can take this, so I’ll stick to the important areas: Conjuring rain and then using Thunder(which cannot miss and may paralyze Shadow), firing Aura Spheres(which home in on their targets, also cannot miss), tanking himself up with Barrier and Calm Mind until he becomes nearly invulnerable to all damage, while using Safeguard and Mist to shroud himself against all status effects and enfeebling conditions, reflecting Shadow’s attacks back at him with Mirror Coat, using Knock Off or Thief to get rid of the Chaos Emeralds and thus weaken Shadow, using telekinesis to hold him in place and thus get rid of his speed disadvantage, perform a memory wipe on everything within miles and thus turn Shadow into a confused fool who doesn’t even remember he’s supposed to be in a fight, etc, etc.

    And I have even touched on what advantage Mewtwo might bring to the table by bringing items with him.

  55. EnigmaJ November 5, 2009 at 7:37 pm -      #55

    That seems like a lot of game mechanics to me

  56. AHEM November 5, 2009 at 11:41 pm -      #56

    “That seems like a lot of game mechanics to me”

    Well, that’s how they work in the games, but unless I can see proof that these are just purely game mechanics or that they work differently in the anime, I think they’re fairly good figures to go on.

    Even ignoring the moves in the game, the anime Mewtwo can still cover himself with barriers and block attacks, and reflect them back, and use myriad psychic powers.

  57. EnigmaJ November 21, 2009 at 4:04 pm -      #57

    “Even ignoring the moves in the game, the anime Mewtwo can still cover himself with barriers and block attacks, and reflect them back, and use myriad psychic powers.”

    I believe Mewtwo has a good chance of winning this as well, but I still believe your argument leans too much on game mechanics.

    “The most devestating would be Psych Up and Power Swap, as Scenario mentioned. If Mewtwo could successfully copy or steal Shadow’s Chaos powers, it would be all over. ”

    Using game mechanics as your doing, Psych Up copies an enemie’s increase in power. Basically, I use Iron Defense to increase my defense rating and the enemy uses Psych Up to copy that increase in defense. Power Swap basically does the same thing. Now, when exactly has either of these two move’s been used to copy an attack or special ability? This is especially so when we’re talking about Shadow’s Chaos Powers, which are granted to him by the Chaos Emerals I believe. Even if Mewtwo could copy the abilities of enemies, who’s to say he can copy anything? Can Mewtwo copy the Hulk’s mutate abilities? Can he copy a WarHammer Pskyer’s warp powers? Some pokemon moves get confusing when you put them out of pokemon terms.

    “Even if that fails, Mewtwo could increase his stats exponentionally with moves like Calm Mind.”

    Last time I checked, you couldn’t use calm mind past the sixth time. Even ignoring this game mechanic, can Mewtwo increase his powers to the point that he can one shot a planet or a galaxy with his psychic abilities? Yeah, I agree that Mewtwo can increase his psychic capabilities using calm mind, but there is a limit.

    “He can drop other legendaries with a single hit.”

    He’s never done so in the anime. In fact, Mew gave him a pretty tough time in the movie. This isn’t a bad thing really considering the fact that most Pokemon legendaries hold extraordinary power. Anyways, point is, he’s not one shotting Groudon, Lugia, or Mew.

    Also, you do realize that I can train a Pikachu to Lvl 100, teach it Calm Mind with a TM, make him use it in battle, and subsequently one-hit KO a Mewtwo? Game Mechanics.

    “Stat-wise, Mewtwo is among the highest tier that exists among any group of Pokemon, a true uber. His stats, rounded out, are equal to Dialga, deity of time, Palkia the deity of space, and also Giratina.”

    I’m having trouble believing this. Your not seriously suggesting Mewtwo is on par with the embodiments of Time, Space, or any other pokemon God are you? That Mewtwo’s strength is equal to the two deities who nearly destroyed the pokemon universe in Diamond/Pearl? Are suggesting that Slaking is more powerful than shapers of the Earth itself, Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza? Stats are 100% Game Mechanics and if this isn’t enough to show you why, I’ll explain why shortly.

    “Arceus, the god of all Pokemon, is the only one that surpasses him in raw stats.”

    Doesn’t mean anything.

    “If his Generation I stats are counted, he would be even more powerful than Arceus. Really.”

    In game? Yeah, sure why not. In real life? Absolutely not.

    “He can use Protect, which instantaneously covers him with an indestructible barrier that renders him invinciple for a short period of time”

    Can this barrier protect him from planet busting attacks? I have no doubt it would protect him from most of Shadow’s attacks, but this yet another example of a faulty use of game mechanics.

    “Shadow would have a hard time speed-blitzing that, since Protect is always used first no matter how high the enemy’s speed is, even if the Pokemon is hacked to have 999 speed or something.”

    In game sure? Sure. But in actuality, the speed of Protect depends on how fast Mewtwo can react to incoming attacks. Your not seriously suggesting that if Mewtwo were to fight the Flash, Protect would come up before Mewtwo tells it to come up just to make up for the fact that he can’t react to faster than light movement? No. Game Mechanics. Why does that 999 speed crap even matter when clearly the game was never meant to be that way? Non-canon. I can hack a pikachu to know Roar of Time. What does this mean?

    Seriously, its as if your using game mechanics only when you want to.

    “Conjuring rain and then using Thunder(which cannot miss and may paralyze Shadow)”

    Game Mechanics/No limits fallacy. I can name about dozens of beings throughout fiction that would have no problem dodging this attack.

    “firing Aura Spheres(which home in on their targets, also cannot miss)”

    Game Mechanics/No limits fallacy. The Flash ( or any being who can travel faster than lightning for that matter ) can dodge this attack.

    “tanking himself up with Barrier and Calm Mind until he becomes nearly invulnerable to all damage,”

    I’ve already been through this. Game Mechanics/No limits fallacy. These moves have limits.

    “while using Safeguard and Mist to shroud himself against all status effects and enfeebling conditions,”

    Any enfeebling condition? No, just burn, paralyzation, poison, and sleep.

    “reflecting Shadow’s attacks back at him with Mirror Coat,”

    Can that move reflect back planet busting attacks? Game Mechanics/No limits fallacy.

    “using Knock Off or Thief to get rid of the Chaos Emeralds and thus weaken Shadow”

    So what the hell happens to the Chaos Emeralds? They magically fall through a rift in space and so Shadow no long has them?

    Reread these game descriptions and seriously rethink this- ‘The user slaps down the foe’s held item, preventing the item from being used during the battle.’ & ‘Knocks down the foe’s held item to prevent its use.’
    —————————————————————————————-

    On the issue of the Pokemon stats, the stats not only contradict what we’ve see in the anime, but it also doesn’t fit with the Pokedex entries ( which have nothing to do with gameplay ). Then there’s the issue with how you interpret them

    Speed for example. Hitmonchan is described as being able to punch faster than a bullet train, faster than any normal human eye can pick up on. And yet Dragonite is faster than it… does this mean Dragonite can punch faster than Hitmonchan- NO. Does speed refer to running speed, flying speed, punching speed, reaction speed? It could mean a whole bunch of things.

    Then there’s the main problem that they are overall inaccurate, balanced out for game play reasons. Dragonite can travel at around Mach 2 speeds, but its speed is equivalent to that of a Mamoswine ( think bulky Mammoth thing ), Venasaur, and Drifblim ( a balloon like pokemon that goes with the wind ). Mamoswine and Venasaur can’t even fly, so to assume these stats are correct, you’d have to assume they can run at Mach 2 speeds ( which they can’t ). To put things better into perspective, Arcanine can run at a maximum speed of 260 miles per hour ( according to the pokedex ), but it has a higher base speed than Dragonite. Is Arcanine faster than Dragonite? No, but the stats still say it is. Do you know why? The same reason plasma weapons don’t one shot marines in Halo and other games and your most powerful weapons won’t destroy that tree/wall in the corner no matter how many times you shoot it. The stats are balanced out so that way most pokemon have their strengths and weaknesses in game. Game Mechanics.

    There are even more discrepancies. According to the attack stats, Slaking and Rampardos ( and a whole long list of pokemon ) have more destructive capabilities than Arceus ( you know, the guy who created our universe? ) and Palkia ( you the guy who nearly recreated our universe? ). Heracross and Flareon has more attack power than Gyarados, a pokemon leaves whole cities in ruins in its rage. Golem, a pokemon who can dynamite blasts without a scratch, has higher defense than the God Pokemon ( a being who isn’t limited by Space or Time ).

  58. EnigmaJ November 21, 2009 at 7:58 pm -      #58

    Hmm, I think I might have come across a bit nasty…

    Anyways, I realize that Shadow is not a planet buster, and does not have many of the traits I brought up. But my point was, your assuming on too many occasions that a pokemon move will always have the effect it has in-game regardless of the scenario. Quick Attack will not always go first if your opponent is the Flash. Protect will not protect from time manipulation or continent busting blasts. Fissure will always one hit-KO regardless of your opponent.

  59. ZeldaTheSwordsman February 28, 2010 at 1:21 am -      #59

    I’d say they’d get suspicious of this. Why would they be fighting in the first place? I think both would smell a rat. One must remember that Mewtwo would likely try and determine someone’s motives before deciding to engage in combat. Here’s what I want to see: Shadow and Mewtwo vs. Cybertron Starscream. Post-supersizing. Now that would be something.

  60. ZeldaTheSwordsman February 28, 2010 at 1:26 am -      #60

    Also, they should totally have Fate Testarossa on their side.

  61. socialninja March 10, 2010 at 10:27 pm -      #61

    i am going to throw in a wrench

    could shadow go back in time and prevent mewtwo’s creation

  62. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 1:56 pm -      #62

    In shadows normal form,then Mewtwo’s mental telepathy would be just enough.In his Shadow’s super form,as long as Mewtwo avoids contact with him long enough for Super Shadow to run out of rings and then turn back to normal.Which won’t be too hard considering Mewtwo can teleport.

  63. thekinghippo March 16, 2010 at 2:29 pm -      #63

    “.In his Shadow’s super form,as long as Mewtwo avoids contact with him long enough for Super Shadow to run out of rings and then turn back to normal.Which won’t be too hard considering Mewtwo can teleport.”
    or he could just use power swap. How would Mew-two’s “pressure” effect shadows attacks.

  64. ScreamPaste March 16, 2010 at 2:43 pm -      #64

    It’s actually possible, if we look at MewTwo’s speed stat compared with the stats of fast pokemon, like Dragonite who can fly around the world in 16 hours (Mach 2! with a speed stat of 90!), that MewTwo is faster than Shadow, which would give him an effortless win. :(

  65. Whacko March 16, 2010 at 3:01 pm -      #65

    If Super Shadow is anything like Super Sonic, Mewtwo is very, very dead.

  66. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 3:12 pm -      #66

    ‘If Super Shadow is anything like Super Sonic, Mewtwo is very, very dead.”
    How?Like I said,Mewtwo can teleport so he can just keep on doing it until Super Shadow runs out of ringd and turns back into normal.Also I’m pretty sure that there super forms are the same,as in easy for Mewtwo to avoid by teleporting and turning back to normal after the hedgehog runs out of wings

  67. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 3:13 pm -      #67

    I meant rings,stupid typo…

  68. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 3:54 pm -      #68

    “using Knock Off or Thief to get rid of the Chaos Emeralds and thus weaken Shadow”

    choas emeralds are held in hammerspace first of all.

    ill can honestly say that mewtwo loses to a speedblitz, hes never shown the capacity to react to anything that fast.

    @screampaste

    so your suggesting that mewtwo could out speed shadow an indestructible, immortal, being who can achieve FTL and react at FTL speeds in addition to chronomanipulation. mewtwo is not as fast as shadow.

    shadow can keep up with sonic and i wonder if you understand how fast sonic is? sonic outran a supersonic race car with minimal effort. it was a photo finish sure, but the camera that takes a photo every millionth of a sec depicted sonic stopping at the finish line getting a hotdog, making faces at the camera, then returning to position and instantly accelerating to make it a tie. and you believe mewtwo is this fast?

  69. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 3:58 pm -      #69

    “Like I said,Mewtwo can teleport so he can just keep on doing it until Super Shadow runs out of ringd and turns back into normal.”

    Mewtwo cant react FTL. id like to see you prove he can, plus 50 sec to mewtwo is an eternity to supershadow mewtwo and supershadow are leagues apart so much so that the thought of supershadow ROFLstomps mewtwo.

  70. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 4:11 pm -      #70

    FTL?As in faster than light?Dude,Super Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic06 were no where near the speed of light.Also there is a chance that Mewtwo’s telepathy could work on Super Shadow.Infact Super Shadow is incredibly slow when it came to fighting the Finalhazard and Solaris.

  71. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 4:13 pm -      #71

    Also considering Sonic06 and Sonic Adventure 2 were twp of the only games where super shadow appeared…well,I beileved I made my point…

  72. JoshMcFace March 16, 2010 at 4:19 pm -      #72

    See OriginalA’s notes on Thanos vs Super Sonic for great info on the ridiculous power of the ‘supers’ in the Sonic universe, including, but not limited to, being omnichronological.

  73. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 4:24 pm -      #73

    dude the lightspeed attack is lightspeed.

    my my my, supershadow existed in 1/3 of all points in time, in all time lines when he fought solaris, my point is made mewtwo could do nothing against supershadow. mewtwo would be getting slaughtered over billions of years by lightspeed attacks, by billions of shadows each with infinite and unlimited energy behind every attack. my point is made this has already been discussed on thanos vs supersonic.

  74. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 4:38 pm -      #74

    Very well then,but what sonic fans need to understand is that speed doesn’t always give the character an instant win.Also you still haven’t told me what if Mewtwo uses his telepathy which I do beilever could be could even against a super form.Even if sonics super form is invincible in Brawl,the super forms aren’t invincible in the actual games,where as in sonic06,sonic advanced series and many more games.So all Mewtwo has to do is hold Shadow still until Shadow runs out of rings.

  75. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 4:42 pm -      #75

    well it actually does if shadow can kill mewtwo before he braincells fireup to do anything he wins its really that simple,

  76. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 4:46 pm -      #76

    and your not understanding that shadow can become an omnichronolagical abstract being in super form. sure mewtwo could hold him still with telepathy( which i doubt) but what about the shadow that exists 1 sec before he was caught or the one that exists 1 sec after he was caught in a different timeline, or the one that exist 1 billion years before the fight so on and so fourth. can he stop all of them?

  77. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 4:47 pm -      #77

    Dude,shadow needs a few moments to turn into super sonic,I doubt Mewtwo would be stupid to just stand there and let shadow transform.Infact Mewtwo is one of the smartest of all time.

  78. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 4:50 pm -      #78

    I meant super shadow not super sonic,also I meant Mewtwo is one of the smartest pokemon of all time.Also its been proven that Mewtwo’s stats at their max are larger than arceus’s in the actual games.Lol,and I dare you to tell me that shadow can beat Arceus…

  79. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 4:55 pm -      #79

    Plus,about those other Shadows you were talkin about.If thats how the battles gonna go,then what happens when mewtwo calls an army of level100 pokemon to assist him?

  80. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 4:57 pm -      #80

    “Dude,shadow needs a few moments to turn into super shadow.”

    sonic and shadow percieve time FTL. the moment it takes shadow to go supershadow is irrelevant because mewtwo wouldnt be able to react to it. this was discussed in sonic vs mario vs crash vs spyro.

    “Lol,and I dare you to tell me that shadow can beat Arceus…”
    maybe he is invincible and omnichronolagical. they are a good fight. but this isnt they place. plus pokemon game stats aint worth shit they tell me that pokemon who wreck cities are weaker the belsprouts(not accurate but this was discussed in this thread.) so gaame stats are irrelevant.

  81. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 4:58 pm -      #81

    What I meant in my last post,is that this battle is only between ONE shadow against mewtwo.

  82. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:02 pm -      #82

    Alright,look theres also the idea of Shadow needing to get the chaos emeralds,Mewtwo can just use his psychic powers to get the chaos emeralds before shadow and turn super himself…

  83. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 5:03 pm -      #83

    “Plus,about those other Shadows you were talkin about.If thats how the battles gonna go,then what happens when mewtwo calls an army of level100 pokemon to assist him?”

    wouldnt matter since supershadow isnt chronolinear he could simply have killed him b4 before he does anything. no number of pokemon could help against supershadow. since the fight would be over before it got to this point, or they would be insantaneously killed by FTL attacks with unlimited energy, by shadows through multiple points of time.

  84. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:05 pm -      #84

    Also,cant Mewtwo use hypnosis to put Shadow to sleep?Don’t say shadow can just dodge it,hypnosis can’t be seen in real life…

  85. Envoy March 16, 2010 at 5:06 pm -      #85

    Shadow dosent normaly cary around 7 emeralds, only one. Chaos spear gets reflected,a protect that is up before chaos control leaves mewtwo invincible(CC only lasts 30 seconds too). And ANY physical attack will be rendered inert by Mewtwo’s telekenesis.

  86. Whacko March 16, 2010 at 5:07 pm -      #86

    Deathwish…you fail.

  87. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:11 pm -      #87

    “wouldnt matter since supershadow isnt chronolinear he could simply have killed him b4 before he does anything. no number of pokemon could help against supershadow. since the fight would be over before it got to this point, or they would be insantaneously killed by FTL attacks with unlimited energy, by shadows through multiple points of time.”
    Dude,ARE YOU INSANE!?!Your forgetting that I didn’t even name the level 100 pokemon in mewtwo’s army,Hell I could have put All the legendaries in one army,No matter what you say,Shadow will never beat all the legendaires at once.No offence…I really didn’t mean anything offensive…

  88. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 5:13 pm -      #88

    “Alright,look theres also the idea of Shadow needing to get the chaos emeralds,Mewtwo can just use his psychic powers to get the chaos emeralds before shadow and turn super himself…”

    so mewtwo can steal items from hammerspace? prove it. plus mewtwo is two slow to react to shadow transforming.

    sonic characters have been known to use CE even if not in possession of the choas emeralds.

    “Also,cant Mewtwo use hypnosis to put Shadow to sleep?Don’t say shadow can just dodge it,hypnosis can’t be seen in real life…”

    doesnt matter by the time mewtwo thinks of using an attack standard shadow is fast enough to speedblitz him with lightspeed attack. and kill him. mewtwo isnt fast enough.

  89. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:14 pm -      #89

    “Deathwish…you fail.”
    I fail?Explain…

  90. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:17 pm -      #90

    @Whacko,hell I harldy know you and here you are saying that I fail.

  91. Darkbladex96 March 16, 2010 at 5:19 pm -      #91

    mewtwo was only ever shown copying entire pokemon in his lablike place on the movie with geneticl manipulation, and none of them were legendary.

    plus if mewtwo had the power to recreate any pokemon with the lvl of power they have is retarded, you are saying that mewtwo could basically, recreated an arceaus with as much power as the real thing. never has he shown this kinda power, if he had that kind of power he wouldnt need a lab to make pokemon clones.

  92. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:24 pm -      #92

    “mewtwo was only ever shown copying entire pokemon in his lablike place on the movie with geneticl manipulation, and none of them were legendary.

    plus if mewtwo had the power to recreate any pokemon with the lvl of power they have is retarded, you are saying that mewtwo could basically, recreated an arceaus with as much power as the real thing. never has he shown this kinda power, if he had that kind of power he wouldnt need a lab to make pokemon clones.”
    Since Mewtwo is a friend of Mew,then whats stopping Mew from asking the other pokemon to help him?Another thing,happerspace?Where did that come from?Nobody said anything about hammerspace.

  93. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:33 pm -      #93

    And dude,no offence but your making it seem like Super Shadow seem like he can just touch Mewtwo and kill him.If Finalhazard,Solaris,hell even one of eggmans machines was able to withstand a hit then Mewtwo as sure as hell can do it…

  94. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:41 pm -      #94

    Also whats stopping Mewtwo from using the protect barrier the entire match.Since you’ve made it clear that we aren’t using actual stats from the pokemon games so Mewtwo can just use protect the entire match.

  95. Envoy March 16, 2010 at 5:48 pm -      #95

    “so mewtwo can steal items from hammerspace? prove it. plus mewtwo is two slow to react to shadow transforming.”

    HE DOSENT HAVE THE SEVEN EMERALDS!

    “Dude,ARE YOU INSANE!?!Your forgetting that I didn’t even name the level 100 pokemon in mewtwo’s army,Hell I could have put All the legendaries in one army,No matter what you say,Shadow will never beat all the legendaires at once.No offence…I really didn’t mean anything offensive…”
    You’re kinda right, but the army is outside help, so they share no part in this match.

  96. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:53 pm -      #96

    I know that they share no part in this match,the only reason I brought them up is becuase Darkblade brought up other Shadows…

  97. Deathwish5 March 16, 2010 at 5:55 pm -      #97

    Oh and Whacko,when you say someone fails and yet you have no reason to say it,then its actually you being the one that fails…

  98. EnigmaJ March 16, 2010 at 6:47 pm -      #98

    “HE DOSENT HAVE THE SEVEN EMERALDS!”

    Hmm. If Shadow doesn’t have the Seven Emeralds, then he doesn’t stand a chance against the Anime Mewtwo. Supersonic speed isn’t enough to beat Mewtwo.

  99. VincentValentine_117 March 16, 2010 at 6:57 pm -      #99

    Ok, i think shadow can win this. (preparing anti-flame suit)
    shadow can instantaneously teleport without an emerald (see opening trailer to shadow the hedgehog). can quickly analyze enemies (as he does against bosses in shadow the hedgehog, might be game mechanic, not entirely sure)
    if he can get super form then he can exist in 1/3 of all the possible timelines at once and can only be hurt/affected if harmed in ALL those timelines. and shadow always carries a chaos emerald with him (whether it’s fake or real I have yet to figure out)
    “Super Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic06 were no where near the speed of light.”
    check again, in sonic06 he was in 1/3 of all possible timelines all at once and he wasn’t fast for gameplay purposes, after all no gamer can properly control a hedgehog moving at lightspeed.
    “It’s actually possible, if we look at MewTwo’s speed stat compared with the stats of fast pokemon, like Dragonite who can fly around the world in 16 hours (Mach 2! with a speed stat of 90!), that MewTwo is faster than Shadow, which would give him an effortless win.”
    game mechanic.
    @Deathwish5
    that’s a good thing. it means his super form isn’t as spammed as sonic’s. which is why i have thouroughly more respect for shadow than sonic.

  100. OriginalA March 16, 2010 at 7:33 pm -      #100

    Just pointing this out, but Shadow is constantly shown and stated to be Sonic’s equal in speed, and in Sonic Adventure DX Manual Sonic was labeled the fastest HYPERSONIC Hedgehog, which puts Shadow’s base speed at Mach 5.

    Then there is the lightspeed attack, which is roflstomp material. 77 lbs at C is 750 Megatons. I doubt Mewtwo could survive a single hit of that force.

    And then there is the point that Shadow does not need the Chaos Emeralds to use Chaos Powers (except Chaos Control and Super Form), and among those powers are Chaos Rift which opens a hole in time and space. And it is entirely possilbe that he carries a fake emerald on his at all times as in Sonic Heroes he was shown with the Green Emerald during a time when Team Sonic held all 7 emeralds… alternatively Shadow can use chorno manipulative powers without any kind of emerald at all.

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