Slave-I Vs Enterprise-D

Slave-I vs Enterprise-D

Excellent match here as we put the Federation’s mightiest ship against the cunning of one the the most notorious bounty hunters. For this match, if it’s fought in a cluttered area (asteroid field for example), the edge clearly goes to the Slave-I. Fett wouldn’t directly attack the Starship head on, but would most likely use hit and run techniques.

Who wins this?

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181 Comments on "Slave-I Vs Enterprise-D"

  1. Space marine April 25, 2009 at 8:47 am -      #1

    Well, If it was in an asteroid belt it would win.

  2. Thepocalypse April 25, 2009 at 8:53 am -      #2

    I’m going to give this to the Enterprise, as it simply carries too many weapons to be taken out by Slave 1. Also, as suggested in Star Trek VS Star Wars, it is possible that the type of laser fire used in Star Wars is incapable of breaching a Federation ship’s shields. I’ll post the link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ijDlbvAxw
    Lulz were had at that vid. It contains the infamous “Picard Facepalm”.

  3. L-W April 25, 2009 at 9:36 am -      #3

    Here are just a few figures I’ve pulled up from Stardestroyer.net and the Star Wars/Star Trek technical manuals:

    Star Wars Slave-1:

    Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC for time-averaged power output rather than peak output).

    Missiles: 190 megatons (tail-launched missiles; seismic charge mines are roughly 12000 megatons).

    Sublight acceleration: 2500G.

    Operational range: not stated (however, Obi-Wan’s starfighter has an operational range of 150,000 light-years, and is probably similar).
    Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala’s personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar).

    Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala’s personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar).

    Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, same-day flight from core to galactic outer-rim systems requires speeds in excess of 10 million c). We also know that its hyperdrive engine is rated at being ten times faster than an Imperial Star Destroyer.

    – – –

    Star Trek Enterprise-D:

    Main phasers: 3.6 GW
    Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical
    Sublight acceleration: 1000G
    Operational range: 2750 light-years
    Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak.
    Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6.
    Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6).

    As you can tell from the figures, Slave-I has the juice to confront the Enterprise-D in a direct standoff. Superior speed, firepower, shields, propulsion and even power generation.

  4. fooby April 25, 2009 at 1:39 pm -      #4

    i guess size has no meaning in this fight………..
    slave i will just drop a seismic charge over the bridge

    BBBBOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM *bridge is destroyed*

  5. kano547 April 25, 2009 at 6:45 pm -      #5

    fooby think before you word-vomit .nothing that the slave one has on baord can get through the enterprises shields because for one we dont know if anything that starwars ships are armed with can do that and for two the slave ones weapons cant get enough power from the reactor core to do any real damage even if the enterprizes shields were offline its just too freaking big. so while the slave is going back and forth at high speeed making bombing runs the enormous power of the phazers alone will destroy the slave on the first try not to mention the photon torpedoes whitch may or may not be able to catch the slave will atomize it if they hit

  6. Cpt Olimar April 25, 2009 at 8:32 pm -      #6

    “nothing that the slave one has on baord can get through the enterprises shields”
    “Star Wars Slave-1:

    Main guns: 64000 GW

    Star Trek Enterprise-D

    Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak.”

    For re-emphasis

  7. L-W April 25, 2009 at 9:31 pm -      #7

    Apparently analytical skills are not your forte Kano. There’s barely enough reactor power on the Enterprise to fuel even the Slave-I for even a few hours.

    One blast from the ion cannon would leave the Enterprise adrift, drop a few Proton Torpedoes into the mix and the Enterprise and her crew are toast. The beauty of it being that despite her size, the shielding and firepower of the Slave-I (Which can stand up to a Star Destroyer) gives her the ability to go toe-to-toe with the Enterprise in a good old fashioned gunfight.

    I’m placing my vote on the Bounty Hunter.

  8. Matapiojo April 25, 2009 at 9:50 pm -      #8

    “fooby think before you word-vomit .”

    This is ironic beyond comprehension.

  9. L-W April 26, 2009 at 2:59 am -      #9

    “it is possible that the type of laser fire used in Star Wars is incapable of breaching a Federation ship’s shields.”

    I call major BS on that one.

    It’s an age-old argument that doesn’t hold water. Lasers do mess with shields in later episodes; for instance, Borg cutting lasers go through Galaxy-class shields like a knife through butter. The Straleb’s lasers (That are mentioned in the video that Thepocalypse posted) weren’t ineffective simply because they were lasers, they were ineffective because they were lasers operating at a power level much below the one even the Enterprise’s nav deflectors were built to handle. That’s what made Picard chuckle; the tech disparity between the two ships was ridiculous.

    It is scientifically impossible for any kind of shield to block infinite amounts of laser energy, because the second law of thermodynamics prohibits 100% efficiency devices and light carries momentum equal to U/c, so there are two mechanisms through which increased power levels would eventually overwhelm any blocking system. Therefore, Riker was either an idiot or he was taking the enemy ship’s small size into account when he made his statement. Case closed.

    It should be noted that Graham Kennedy (ditl.org) has concocted a bizarre rationalization for his infinite laser protection argument, where the ship simply becomes transparent to lasers and they pass right through. Needless to say, he cannot present actual evidence of lasers passing through the ship.

  10. G2 April 26, 2009 at 4:03 am -      #10

    www.st-v-sw.net/STSWasterosmack.html

    Might as well just post this link
    www.st-v-sw.net/BB/BBcompare.html

    Perhaps you could actually read it instead of just saying “Oh he doesn’t see EU as canon! IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE”

  11. L-W April 26, 2009 at 9:20 am -      #11

    I have actually read the entire site through and through, I even knew the author for a brief period whilst he was a member (And trolling) at Stardestroyer.net.

    As I’ve explained on other posts, I’m aware of the author of that site from previous discussions, who demonstrated that he was at best a condescending, dishonest debater, and at worst a nonsensical troll and deliberate and malcontent board flooder (He posted a dozen consecutive threads repeating the same line when the admin refused to agree with him) who hid his dishonesty under a thin veneer of cultured civility, slight of hand and laziness for not actually doing the work required to prove his barely-intelligible assertions.

    An ecumenical coward who has frequently lied about his education and supposed authority on the subject; if I were you, I would be finding a better source than him. Christ, he barely even understood thermodynamics and is also the same intellectual leading light who claimed that Data in “Ensigns of Command” caused the pipes in the aqueduct system to deform from the heat of his phaser blast – but more importantly claimed that binding energy wasn’t a negative quantity, but something you could actually release (it was in the midst of a Death Star argument). He even made a blatant miscalculation in terms of relative lightspeed and claimed that the laws of relativity were wrong just so he could prove a point.

    The only thing he accomplished in his long and miserable stay was pissing off members of both sides of the debate, annoying the admin with his constant promotion and apparently proved that there is 26 rather than 24 hours in a day. He became the worst kind of troll.

    – – –

    Trust me as a long term member of the Stardestroyer.net debate itself, the guy is deluded, arrogant and has such a bone to pick it would put most paleontologists to shame. Originally I was neutral on the matter, until I heard his ranting and screaming – lest to say I was an overnight convert to the Empire.

    His “table” is also inaccurate to the extreme, just look at the Empire cross-section and you’ll notice a significant amount of slander aimed towards Stardestroyer.net users who disagreed with him, and only some postulation at best.

    The guy is a waste of time, the fact that you’re siding with his slanderous opinions deeply disturbs me.

  12. G2 April 26, 2009 at 2:50 pm -      #12

    I don’t know the author or know how he acted on a forum. I don’t really care. What concerns me is the EU. What I am looking at is these debates and on screen evidence. Disprove what he says in these debates and on the site. Or you can just continue to ignore the main evidence and call him a troll.

    The creator of SW and many others have said multiple times over the years that the EU is not a part of the true canon universe. What is not canon to the creator is not canon to me. The “canon” within the EU doesn’t mean shit until Lucas decides to add it in his universe.

    I agree with what the the author says at the end of the debate,
    “I place Lucas at the top . . . Star Wars is his baby, and he gets to decide
    what is and isn’t real Star Wars, and he can add to it or change it at his
    whim. He has informed us that the EU is outside his universe, and part of
    a parallel one. He has revised his canon to be more in accord with his
    vision of it.”
    “I accept that there is the Canon . . . it is the inviolable fact of Star
    Wars. The real story of Star Wars is this canon fact . . . all else is
    meaningless speculation, speculation that is part of a parallel universe.”

  13. Who? April 26, 2009 at 4:59 pm -      #13

    Dude, L-W just disproved everything you just said like, not even four days ago on the damn Enterpise vs Super Star Destroyer thread. Read post #41. If you decide to spit before reading again, then thats your problem my friend.

  14. Prime Chaos April 26, 2009 at 5:04 pm -      #14

    Hello I am Chaos. I see doom for the Enterprise this time. Go Slave 1.

  15. Skrunks April 26, 2009 at 6:21 pm -      #15

    See:

    www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html

    This is an article about the relative power of blasters and turbolasers taken strictly from appearances in the first three Star Wars movies; A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. At a very conservative estimate, the Laser Cannons on a stock X-Wing Starfighter are 600 GW per laser blast. This is totally aside from any EU material. Simply from what we’ve seen onscreen, the X-Wing has enough firepower to toast the Enterprise D in 8 or 9 shots, which it can deliver in about 4 seconds. The Slave I is Boba Fett’s personal starship, outfitted with some of the most advanced weapons in the SW universe available for a small starship. Even if Boba’s Weapons were only 200 GW, 1/6th that of the X Wing, then that would still severely outclass the Enterprise. It pains me to say it, because I love the Enterprise D. It’s so elegant. But in all seriousness, the Enterprise vs. Slave 1 is the same scenario as the Enterprise vs. the Straleb, as mentioned above. Except, Enterprise is the one makine Boba Fett chuckle.

  16. Thepocalypse April 26, 2009 at 7:17 pm -      #16

    “Dude, L-W just disproved everything you just said”
    Yeah, that’s kind of his thing.

  17. L-W April 26, 2009 at 8:21 pm -      #17

    “I don’t know the author or know how he acted on a forum.”

    Credibility, minus ten points. Inability to grasp semantics, minus one hundred points.

    “But in all seriousness, the Enterprise vs. Slave 1 is the same scenario as the Enterprise vs. the Straleb, as mentioned above. Except, Enterprise is the one makine Boba Fett chuckle.”

    Too true Skrunks.

    This is Boba’s personal assault craft, outfitted and upgraded with as much military hardware as physically possible. It has three separate experimental shields alone, two back-up hyperdrive engines and a Hypermatter core designed to power a Super Star Destroyer.

    This thing has more firepower than several Federation warships combined.

  18. L-W April 26, 2009 at 9:03 pm -      #18

    Excellent article provided by Mike Wong, if anyone is interested:

    www.stardestroyer.net/AOTC/Revelations-2.html

    Seismic Charges:

    “When you want to send a strongly worded message to an unwanted pursuer, just lob a seismic charge his way. The seismic charge is interesting not so much for its sheer power as for its unusual mechanism. Obi-Wan’s starfighter could barely escape the blast, which spread outwards from each detonation and effortlessly shredded everything in its path. The limits of this blast were difficult to determine without being able to carefully inspect the entire scene in slow motion, but it appeared to spread out for at least 2 kilometres in all directions (limited to its plane, of course), if not much more.

    If we use the 2 km figure (although it seems small in light of the duration of the blast and its expansion rate), its ability to pulverize everything within its range suggests energy yield of at least 60 to 200 megatons, based on empirical data derived from rock blasting. For those of you who are B5 fans, I am aware that some of you believe that the disintegration of a 500 metre wide asteroid (in “Call to Arms”) was a gigaton-level event. However, I am not interested in debating that erroneous (and, I suspect, entirely arbitrary) figure; my source is “Deflection and Fragmentation of Near-Earth Asteroids”, by T.J. Ahrens and A.W. Harris, which indicates that a 1 megaton bomb should disintegrate an asteroid between 0.7km and 1km width. In any case, the SW2ICS quantifies the mines to have roughly 12 gigaton yield, which suggests that the radius of destruction can be as much as 10-30 kilometres at maximum power (although it should be noted that conventional modelling is suspect because of the unusual mechanism of the weapon, and it is difficult to determine the true radius of destruction in the film because of the camera angles used).

    This weapon is obviously not a conventional or nuclear explosive. It does not have a normal explosive effect, and it does not need to be buried inside an asteroid in order to fragment it. Its shockwave is planar, and the expanding planar disc appears to slice asteroids cleanly at the point of contact, while simultaneously imparting significant velocity to the resulting fragments in a direction perpendicular to the plane. It cannot be a conventional explosive device, but it may be an unusual application of forcefield technology. Note that rock fragments thrown away by the interaction are not heated to luminescence, nor do they show any other signs of heating. In fact, the rock appears to fracture in a brittle fashion.

    The motivation for such a specialized device is not initially obvious. It can create impressive destruction in a dense matter field but it is of questionable value as a space weapon, since a starfighter need only avoid the planar disc in order to escape destruction (although flying debris created a secondary hazard in this case, and it would be interesting to see its effects on a large vessel which cannot avoid the disc). However, the name “seismic charge” strongly suggests that it is actually meant to produce seismic shockwaves on a planetary surface: an application for which its planar disc would be perfectly suited, provided it can orient its expansion plane to the ground. Jango Fett was improvising when he used this device against Obi-Wan’s starfighter in the Geonosis rings, but when you look at its characteristics, it is obviously designed for use as a ground attack weapon.

    With a sub-surface detonation, these seismic charges would create a devastating localized ground-quake which can destroy man-made structures within a radius of several kilometres by literally tearing up the ground beneath them. With surface detonations, these weapons would become the ultimate “daisy-cutter”, able to catastrophically disrupt ground installations, vehicles, and of course, personnel. Best of all, this large zone of destruction woud be caused without any of the toxicity or radioactive fallout that normally accompanies the use of weapons powerful enough to devastate such a large area, thus allowing troops to rapidly seize control. Not coincidentally, it would also make it easy for a bounty hunter to quickly enter and retrieve bodies (or at least, parts of bodies) which are still readily identifiable for the purposes of bounty collection, since the weapon would not obliterate flesh with the searing heat and radiation that accompanies nuclear explosives.

    Note the placement of the minelayer: on the bottom of the ship. The design intention was apparently for clearing out a landing area. If Slave-1 dropped to low altitude and needed to quickly clear out hostiles from the landing zone, it could drop a seismic charge to do the job, even from low altitude. Alternatively, if Jango Fett is fleeing pursuers, he need only get into the ship, take off, and drop a seismic charge as soon as his ship gets more than a few dozen metres off the ground. The blast would neutralize all but the most large-scale pursuit.”

    Mid-ship Guns

    “Unlike its seismic charges, Slave-1’s midship guns were clearly designed for ship to ship combat. Their rate of fire was quite high (I estimate one shot every 3 frames at 24 fps, which averages out to roughly 480 shots per minute), which is appropriate for that task. It is unknown whether the firing rate of these guns is linked to their yield (ie- if the high refire rate comes at a cost in per-shot yield). However, at the yield setting used in this incident, each shot was capable of pulverizing asteroids larger than Obi-Wan’s starfighter.

    According to the SW2ICS, the midship guns have a per-shot yield of 2 kilotons, which would be enough to pulverize a well-consolidated 100-150 metre wide asteroid, assuming that the force-coupling efficiency of an energy bolt is equal to the force-coupling efficiency of a centrally buried chemical explosive. Of course, this is not the case, nor is it even close, so the 100-150 metre figure should be treated as an extremely generous estimate. An energy beam primarily heats the target, and the only form of force coupling is secondary, through gas expansion caused by rapid vapourization. Realistically, a 2 kiloton energy beam of perhaps 0.01 second duration would probably be limited to fragmenting an asteroid of only a few dozen metres in size rather than 100-150 (with a lot of heating, melting, and vapourization), which is closer to what we see in the film.”

    Missiles:

    “Unlike its seismic charges, Slave-1’s midship guns were clearly designed for ship to ship combat. Their rate of fire was quite high (I estimate one shot every 3 frames at 24 fps, which averages out to roughly 480 shots per minute), which is appropriate for that task. It is unknown whether the firing rate of these guns is linked to their yield (ie- if the high refire rate comes at a cost in per-shot yield). However, at the yield setting used in this incident, each shot was capable of pulverizing asteroids larger than Obi-Wan’s starfighter.

    According to the SW2ICS, the midship guns have a per-shot yield of 2 kilotons, which would be enough to pulverize a well-consolidated 100-150 metre wide asteroid, assuming that the force-coupling efficiency of an energy bolt is equal to the force-coupling efficiency of a centrally buried chemical explosive. Of course, this is not the case, nor is it even close, so the 100-150 metre figure should be treated as an extremely generous estimate. An energy beam primarily heats the target, and the only form of force coupling is secondary, through gas expansion caused by rapid vapourization. Realistically, a 2 kiloton energy beam of perhaps 0.01 second duration would probably be limited to fragmenting an asteroid of only a few dozen metres in size rather than 100-150 (with a lot of heating, melting, and vapourization), which is closer to what we see in the film.”

    The great thing about Mike Wong is that he provides the necessary scientific work (He even created an extremely accurate Asteroid destruction calculator) without the unnecessary slander and meandering that the ST-Vs-SW author consistently resorts to.

    In the beginning of the debate, the room was divided in half by the Feds and Imperials, until Mike Wong posted a journal’s worth of calculations and practically rebutted everything posted by the Trekkie supporters. Is there any wonder then as to why within a few weeks the 50% margin suddenly turned to 60, 70, 80 and then almost 95% in favor of the imperials, with many of even the most hard-lined Feds turning around and saying:

    “I guess I was wrong, thanks Mike Wong.”

  19. Who? April 26, 2009 at 9:05 pm -      #19

    One of the shields is on par with a victory 1-class star destroyer, is it not? Anyway, I have a hard time believing the Enterprise would even be able to see the Slave 1 coming. With it’s sophisticated jamming systems, sensor mask, cloak field, etc. What keeps the Slave 1 from boarding the Enterprise then massacring the crew?It’s safe to assume that the Lord of the Hunt takes this victory.

  20. Who? April 26, 2009 at 9:34 pm -      #20

    Thanks for posting that intresting link L-W!

  21. L-W April 26, 2009 at 10:12 pm -      #21

    I just realized I made a mistake on the last segment regarding missiles, but you can read still read the link provided if you’re curious.

    – – –

    The funny thing about the Federation is that they’ve spent so long spreading Communism throughout their comparatively tiny sector of occupied space, that they’ve essentially become militarily and strategically retarded.

    Sure, everything is upholstered and looks clean, but even the Star Wars equivalents of Red-Shirts and Marine guards still wear Military-grade body amour (Or does shrapnel not exist in the Federation?). Someone should tell Picard that whilst incredibly sexy and somewhat elegant, no amount of upholstered vinyl, spandex uniforms or Mr.Sheen can compensate for raw firepower in a ship-to-ship fight.

    Slave-I may look like a ship that only a mother could love, with all the dings, scratches, dents and dirt that’s accumulated over the decades; but goddamn can it rain a firestorm!

  22. L-W April 26, 2009 at 11:34 pm -      #22

    Check this out:

    home.att.net/~tomjlee/starwars/index.html

    I haven’t stopped laughing for the past ten minutes, in fact my lungs have collapsed a result of the low pressure I’ve somehow maintained due to hysterics. I’m quite literally wiping the tears away from my eyes as I type this.

    According to this guy, the Type-5 turbolaser cannons on an Imperial Star Destroyer have an output of only 2 kilowatts, meaning the light bulb in the lamp right next me puts out more energy than even the Capital class weapons of the Empire. Which makes sense, because I threw a used light bulb in the bin just the other day, the resultant explosion caused the bin, my lawn and half of my house to vaporize. I was fortunate enough to be wearing clothes at the time.

    Humorous observation aside, lest to say I’ve already emailed this guy inquiring about the destructive potential of my Car’s Halogen lights and whether or not I should be cautious.

  23. kano547 April 27, 2009 at 12:33 am -      #23

    ive got a question for L-W. how do you know things like the exact power of a turbo laser and how many impacts the slave-1s shields can withstand is there a website or do you just make it up as you go along? now im not insulting you or at least im trying not to but how do you know this stuff if its a website please leave links otherwise only george lucas can make up starwars canonn on the spot. once agian this is not an insult this is an honest question i want to know the answer to

  24. Who? April 27, 2009 at 12:46 am -      #24

    “2 Type-4b laser cannons (400 watts)
    4 Type-4 blaster cannons (100 watts)”

    My stereo system dwarfs the Slave 1 in power! Watch as I crush the once mighty ship with the power of Bowie! Mwa ha ha ha!!!!

    In all seriousness, we should find this guy and buy him an ice cream cone or somthing… He made my day.

  25. Skrunks April 27, 2009 at 3:31 am -      #25

    If you thought that was funny, did you see his Enterprise E estimates?

    Heavy Explorer USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-E

    Launched 2372
    Sovereign Class
    Length 16764m, Mass 4,000,000,000 tons
    0 to Warp 1 in 5.8 seconds
    270 degrees/sec maneuverability
    16 kilocochrane hyperdrive core
    256 megacochrane warp core
    Warp 15 (11,390,625c) Cruise, Warp 24 (191,102,976c) Emergency
    5250 Type-12 megaphasers (7.2 megayottawatts) in 18 arrays
    2500 Type-11 megaphasers (720 kiloyottawatts) in 30 arrays
    6 Type-10 rapid-fire quantum torpedo tubes (@15 torpedoes / s) with @4500 casings
    12 Type-8 rapid-fire quantum torpedo tubes (@10 torpedoes / s) with @3000 casings
    24 Type-6 burst-fire quantum torpedo tubes (@12 torpedoes / 2s) with @1800 casings
    500 isoteraton superheavy quantum torpedoes
    5 isoteraton heavy quantum torpedoes, 100 isogigaton heavy ion torpedoes
    50 isogigaton quantum torpedoes, 1 isogigaton ion torpedoes, 20 isomegaton photon torpedoes
    Castrodium/neutronium triple hull
    710cm active deflector plating, 420cm high-density reactive armor, 245cm multilayer ablative armor
    Subspace-amplified EM/gravitic structural integrity field system
    320 gigayottawatt secondary energy dissipation rate (hull)
    20 terayottawatt primary energy dissipation rate (armor)
    9.75*1055 J instantaneous directed KE capacity
    Subspace-amplified EM/gravitic navigational deflector system
    Triple-redundant automodulating regenerative subspace-amplified EM/gravitic defensive grid
    800 terayottawatt tertiary energy dissipation rate (defense fields)
    32 petayottawatt secondary energy dissipation rate (deflector screens)
    2 exayottawatt primary energy dissipation rate (forcefield shields)
    9.76*1060 J instantaneous directed KE capacity
    Saucer separation capability
    Transhield transporter capability
    “…to boldly go where no one has gone before.”

    Good grief. If the Federation could build a monstrosity like that, who needs the Borg? I’m still trying to figure out why exactly he things the Enterprise E is some uber ship.

  26. L-W April 27, 2009 at 8:59 am -      #26

    Skrunks, that’s nothing. read his fleet size estimates. According to his “database”, over 95% of the entire human population serves on a Federation class starship.

    It’s clear that the kid is an idiot, or has no coherent grasp of the real world implication of these terms.

    – – –

    “ive got a question for L-W. how do you know things like the exact power of a turbo laser and how many impacts the slave-1s shields can withstand is there a website or do you just make it up as you go along?”

    Canon data from technical manuals, officially published sources, Mike Wong’s excellent analysis of energy outputs and Asteroid destruction calculator and observation based from both the EU and film trilogies.

    A lot of physicists and engineers who I admire have put a lot of work into analyzing and confirming the statistics presented in the technical manuals, which they’ve done so admirably over the years.

    “only george lucas can make up starwars canonn on the spot”

    No, Lucasfilms Ltd decides what is canon, which compromises all content produced under the guise of the company unless they state otherwise. I’ve explained their stance repeatedly on plenty of other boards.

  27. kano547 April 27, 2009 at 12:43 pm -      #27

    oh well thanks for telling me i was just wondering and hoping it was a website.
    “No, Lucasfilms Ltd decides what is canon, which compromises all content produced under the guise of the company unless they state otherwise’
    i know ,that was a joke ive read an interview where he said he has never read a single one of those starwars books and what ever they say is true is completely different from what he does

  28. Prime Chaos April 27, 2009 at 2:58 pm -      #28

    LOL. Wow you guys are really funny. Still, do you think its possible for the Enterprise to win. I don’t think so.

    Also L-W you are one really smart guy!

  29. L-W April 27, 2009 at 8:54 pm -      #29

    The Enterprise could win on some technobabble (Otherwise known as Trekknobabble) of the week solution, such a shifting the polarity of the binary subspace warp core and create a time dilation flux, or whatever faux science the writers use to half-ass their way through scripts.

    But in a classic ship-to-ship duel of conventional strength, Slave-1 just generates too much of a technological disparity between the opponents. Imperial era Star Wars is just so far ahead of the Federation, it would be like sending a modern Cruisers to interdict a World War II era landing craft.

  30. chaostheory626 April 28, 2009 at 1:31 am -      #30

    Well with these sci-fi genres you can’t really compare too different universes using technical manuals of the two universes as the people who make them aren’t scientist nor do they collaborate with the other people working with the other universe, they just add what they think is appropriate. So you really cant compare with what you think is canon or what they say is canon, but we can use what we see with the on screen representations of the ships. Salve-I is able to destroy an entire asteroid field using the mines or bombs it carried on board, Federation star ships are capable of using very powerful weapons that have many more times the potential of regular standard weapons. Though I believe in a first encounter, the Slave-I would win, BUT the Enterprise-D might have a chance if the ship had time to prepare, which i think is unlikely as it takes time to prepare the weapons.

    In the End though i still see from what I’ve seen on the screen that the Slave-I would have a 85% chance of winning the battle.

  31. L-W April 28, 2009 at 9:15 am -      #31

    “Well with these sci-fi genres you can’t really compare too different universes using technical manuals of the two universes as the people who make them aren’t scientist nor do they collaborate with the other people working with the other universe, they just add what they think is appropriate.”

    The writer of the “Star Wars: Cross sections” series is an astrophysicist with multiple P.H.D’s. With this in mind it’s not a valid argument since it *is* canonical data whether or not it has any practical applications within the context of our modern day scientific studies. Thus our determinations must be based off narrative lore and can only be contested by on screen contradictions, which there are none.

    Neither should there be consultation between respective narratives, as they are each secular to their own storylines and thus remain isolated as such for the enjoyment of each respective demographic. Intrusion is only relevant here, in the minds of the fans, not in canonical lore or the official timeliness of each respective verse.

    “In the End though i still see from what I’ve seen on the screen that the Slave-I would have a 85% chance of winning the battle.”

    I’m curious as to how you determined that figure.

  32. Albert Wikowonkavitz April 28, 2009 at 9:19 am -      #32

    I think there’s only one dude in Slave-1 and there’s hundreds, if not thousands of people on the Enterprise…

    make of that what you will.

  33. no April 28, 2009 at 3:38 pm -      #33

    Visuals contradict posted numbers

    Slave-1 failed to harm Obi Wan
    Enterprise-D vaporizes holes in planet’s crust.

    stardestroyer.net = pro star wars It’s full of pro-imperial propoganda
    likewise
    st-v-sw.net = pro star trek It’s full of pro-federation propoganda

    Think for yourself.

  34. Skrunks April 28, 2009 at 4:41 pm -      #34

    I do. And the Empire smokes the Federation. The Galactic Empire is on a whole other tier of civilization then the Federation. Imagine if the Federation expanded to include most of the Milky Way Galaxy, then you would have a United Federation of Planets that is capable of competing with the Empire. It’s simply silly to compare the two. It’s like pitting the United States against Iceland or something.

    Remember when the Aeon Timeship engaged the USS Voyager? That was a tiny one manned ship competing against a capital class cruiser. That would be a similar situation to putting the Slave I against the Enterprise D.

    And for your information, I am a big Trek fan, I love it to death. When I first discovered the whole Empire vs. Federation debate I was pro Trek all the way, but once I looked into it and ran the numbers myself, there is just no way that the Federation can compete.

  35. chaostheory626 April 28, 2009 at 6:16 pm -      #35

    wow the first time i post something and i already get blasted by someone

    haha well its fine

    i still believe you can’t use the technical manuals to base your conclusions on who you believe would, but that’s my opinion. In all truth there really isn’t a way to know but we sure can speculate.

  36. L-W April 28, 2009 at 8:39 pm -      #36

    “wow the first time i post something and i already get blasted by someone”

    I’m not blasting, it’s just that my style of friendly banter tends to come off as somewhat acerbic to some.

    “It’s like pitting the United States against Iceland or something.”

    I would say that the technological disparity is even more lopsided than that, at least the citizens of Iceland can attain weaponry that could potentially put them on par with US ground forces even in minor conflagrations.

    This is more like the modern US Navy versus the island of Malta circa 1800.

    Whether or not you agree with technical comparisons presented by canon sources, it’s very difficult to deny the vastly lopsided technological advantage that Imperial era vessels have over their communist…I mean Federation counterparts.

  37. chaostheory626 April 28, 2009 at 10:51 pm -      #37

    yeah well its very easy to misunderstand a post over the internet since you really can’t pick up the “tone” of the person

    well i believe L-W that if the canon is used the enterprise is like a solider armed with a pistol vs a modern day tank lol

    amazing such a little ship can pack so much punch, well just goes to show that higher technology well prevail against less advance advisorys

  38. The Chosen One April 28, 2009 at 11:20 pm -      #38

    L-W u bore the fuck out of us all

  39. Who? April 28, 2009 at 11:42 pm -      #39

    “L-W u bore the fuck out of us all”

    Tsk, tsk, tsk, such language my good imbecile. Do not even hope to speak for all of us, L-W is one of the reasons why this site is so entertaining. But you continue to be spiteful against him for pointing out your greatest fails. It’s quite comical to tell the truth.

  40. kano547 April 29, 2009 at 12:19 am -      #40

    “L-W u bore the fuck out of us all” dude what you have just said is like you have just instigated your own violent mugging congratz and i look forward to L-Ws response.and though you may be right he isnt the most entertaining person in the world he is very informative and thats what i come to this site for.for the information i glean from the discutions on here and the entertainment BARON and MATA provide.

    also i would just like to say this i was wrong about this fight and the place i got my information was wrong

  41. Thepocalypse April 29, 2009 at 4:40 am -      #41

    “L-W u bore the fuck out of us all”
    Immature, rude, and untrue. I like reading his posts.

  42. Matapiojo April 29, 2009 at 6:48 am -      #42

    “L-W u bore the fuck out of us all”

    /facepalm

    “yeah well its very easy to misunderstand a post over the internet since you really can’t pick up the “tone” of the person”

    That’s just the way he rolls. Chip away his multi-layered, carbon-steel alloy, egg-shell and you will find a warm and fuzzy teddy bear.

    In any case, don’t be discouraged to continue participating. Debate is the heart of this site, and you will come across all the possible examples within the spectrum of likely reactions here.

    From the superb to the imbecilic. You just have to get used to the modus operandi of the site.

    Glad to have you aboard.

  43. L-W April 29, 2009 at 10:07 am -      #43

    “L-W u bore the fuck out of us all”

    I’m sorry, can “U” repeat that? I’m afraid I can’t understand “U”.

  44. kano547 April 29, 2009 at 7:29 pm -      #44

    ok so youve said that the slaves weapons can destroy the enteprise.can the enterprises weapons get through the slaves shield can picard drag fett to hell with him?

  45. G2 April 29, 2009 at 7:44 pm -      #45

    True. Give the Federation a few hundred years and they would pwn the Empire.

  46. L-W April 29, 2009 at 10:18 pm -      #46

    “True. Give the Federation a few hundred years and they would pwn the Empire.”

    Common fallacious reasoning.

    Not only does this not vilify the chance that the Federation may suffer a state of technological stagnation within those few centuries, but makes the incorrect assumption that the Alliance/New Empire won’t advance to the status of a multi-galactic power and become a true Type IV civilization in the process.

    “ok so youve said that the slaves weapons can destroy the enteprise.can the enterprises weapons get through the slaves shield can picard drag fett to hell with him?”

    Since the military grade shielding can sustain several multi-hundred gigaton blasts, it would take most, if not all of their arsenal fired within quick succession to immobilize what is essentially an extremely fast and maneuverable target invisible to radar.

  47. kano547 April 30, 2009 at 12:41 am -      #47

    so lets just assume that they hit him will a full volley from every phaser and photon torpedo tube would the entire arsenal or at least most of it hitting the slave at near the same time destroy the slave?because theoreticly the enterprise being so huge MIGHT be able to seal off all decks and destroy the slave before it can completely kill it.because the slaves weapons may have more power but wouldnt most of that power be discharged going through the shields and focused on penatration not mass damage. my thought is the enterprise(im going to call it the ent-d from now on)would take a few hits realize theyre out gunned fire every thing at it and then if they kill it try to limp home bleeding atmo

  48. L-W April 30, 2009 at 4:19 am -      #48

    The only issue with that is the limited array of weapons present on the aft and upper saucer sections of the Enterprise, which would prove to severely vulnerable to the rapidly maneuvering Slave-1.

    In your depiction of events, you’re assuming that Boba Fett is idiotic enough to present a stationary and nigh vulnerable target to the varying array of bow mounted weaponry, where by all logic the greatest concentration of firepower would be amassed. But the fact is that we know that Photon torpedoes have an extremely limited turning and tracking speed (By Sci-fi standards they are abysmally slow), one that Slave-1 could more than easily evade.

    Plus there is the issue that you have an extremely narrow view of how ship-to-ship combat is performed. Boba Fett does not have to destroy the main structure entirely to be victorious (As he knows from his years of experience from dueling against Cruisers), he could just as easily sever the connecting bridge between the Saucer and the auxiliary systems, knock out the engine bays all together from the safety of the vulnerable aft section, or…

    (Something that many Trekkies hate to admit)

    …Fire his ion cannon, disable the ship, deactivate the anti-matter containment field surrounding the warp core and essentially turn the Enterprise into a glorified bomb casing. Without the containment field she’ll erupt like a miniature star, vaporizing the crew and their ship.

    – – –

    “so lets just assume that they hit him will a full volley from every phaser and photon torpedo tube would the entire arsenal or at least most of it hitting the slave at near the same time destroy the slave?”

    The firing rate of her main tubes (All three of them) prevent the Enterprise from launching her entire arsenal at once within such quick succession, even then the effectiveness of the weapons decline greatly against fast moving objects. As displayed in the series, torpedoes and phaser blasts have a nasty tendency of missing their intended target by hundreds of meters if it so much as budges in the opposite direction.

    Can you honestly tell me, with a straight face, that they can strike a small ship moving far faster than even their computer guidance systems can track? Even when said ship has jammed their radar and moves too fast for subspace relays to even monitor?

    The likelihood of the scenario you postulated, Kano, seems nigh unlikely even at best.

  49. Locutus April 30, 2009 at 4:04 pm -      #49

    “True. Give the Federation a few hundred years and they would pwn the Empire.”

    I agree. The ability to destroy a planet means nothing when compared to the ability to travel through and change time, which the Federation and many other species will be capable of in about 500 years.

    “But the fact is that we know that Photon torpedoes have an extremely limited turning and tracking speed (By Sci-fi standards they are abysmally slow)”

    5:22
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KwTW6EzY1c&feature=related

    We see Federation photon torpedoes moving at 40-50,000km per second in the TNG episode “The Wounded.”

  50. L-W April 30, 2009 at 9:46 pm -      #50

    That’s still incredibly slow, in fact that’s laughably slow by most sci-fi standards.

    “I agree. The ability to destroy a planet means nothing when compared to the ability to travel through and change time, which the Federation and many other species will be capable of in about 500 years.”

    More fallacious reasoning. Boy do Trekkies love it, it’s like your cocaine

  51. Skrunks April 30, 2009 at 10:23 pm -      #51

    “Not only does this not vilify the chance that the Federation may suffer a state of technological stagnation within those few centuries, but makes the incorrect assumption that the Alliance/New Empire won’t advance to the status of a multi-galactic power and become a true Type IV civilization in the process.”

    The Federation advances far far faster then the SW universe. It takes millenia for any significant technological leap. Even the basic premise for Star Destroyers are thousands of years old. The Federation goes from nothing to Space Faring to an major galactic power in only 400 years. Give it another thousand and it will be way way WAY beyond the relatively fragile SW Galaxy. (Yes the are constantly waring, which means that technological advancement has practically stagnated, just like Warhammer 40k). As for Technological Stagnation on the Federations part, we’ve already seen that no such stagnation has occurred as late as the 29th century, with the technology so advanced that they can teleport people through space at a galactic scale, and time as well. No mention is given to the size of the Federation at this time, but in the 26th century, the Klingons have already joined, as well as the Xindi. It’s not that far to guess that by the 26th Century, the United Federation of Planets spans across the majority of the Alpha and Beta quadrants and by the 29th, probably encompasses most of the Galaxy. The Borg would have to have long since been dealt with, for by having technology as advanced as the Wells, the Borg would have surely come in massive numbers, and the Dominion is probably the only real other contender for Galactic dominance.

    This is all speculation, but hey, a time bomb that can blow up a star system used in conjunction with a teleport that can move stuff across the galaxy and through time makes all Star Wars military arguments moot.

  52. kano547 April 30, 2009 at 10:39 pm -      #52

    well thanks l-w i i didnt know that and now i do i was only asking to get a feel for how strong the slaves shields are for a personal project.also all trekkies are nerds but not all nerds are trekkies i would just like to point that out

  53. Who? April 30, 2009 at 10:58 pm -      #53

    “all trekkies are nerds but not all nerds are trekkies”

    All bourbon is whisky, but not all whisky is bourbon…

  54. AlphaCommando April 30, 2009 at 11:24 pm -      #54

    The weapons technology level in Star Wars still advances, weapons and some tech developed during the Vong war was quite a bit more powerful than Galactic civil war equivalents (especially it seems in droid design). The main issue is that technology is not a curve, it will curve then flatten out, then curve then flatten out because certain thresholds take a long time to advance past. The federation is in an expansion curve but will eventually level as they reach certain points. Admittedly they seem to be moving faster than Star Wars but we’re talking a couple thousand not 500 years.

  55. AlphaCommando April 30, 2009 at 11:26 pm -      #55

    Ahh forgot something.

    This is assuming there are absolutely no societal breakdowns, over-expansion issues, technological deadlocks from an overly destructive war, nothing.

    Dark Ages are inevitable.

  56. Locutus May 1, 2009 at 12:00 am -      #56

    “More fallacious reasoning”

    Oh please explain. The Federation is capable of time travel in 500 years. The Empire doesn’t have crap that is close to that kind of tech. Death stars

  57. L-W May 1, 2009 at 12:19 am -      #57

    “This is all speculation, but hey, a time bomb that can blow up a star system used in conjunction with a teleport that can move stuff across the galaxy and through time makes all Star Wars military arguments moot.”

    I don’t deal in speculation OR conjecture, so even discussing the matter on such a basis is nothing but futile to me.

  58. L-W May 1, 2009 at 12:55 am -      #58

    “Oh please explain. The Federation is capable of time travel in 500 years. The Empire doesn’t have crap that is close to that kind of tech. Death stars

    Alpha refuted the point quite succinctly.

    Technological progress undergoes repetitious cycles of stagnation and growth dependent on the scale of the system. The greater and far more populated the system in question, the more time it takes for noticeable inclines in technological and social gradients.

    In the case of the Federation, technological growth will undergo a natural peak cycle due to the fact that in their small Communist hamlet of one hundred worlds, implementing new developments is far more efficient and generally more intuitive than that of a thousand or even a million worlds. If a new Warp engine is invented to allow for faster travel, it is generally guaranteed that no military contractors will compete for installation rights. With no private enterprise in the Federation (Not even privately owned ships are allowed), conducting these matters is generally as efficient as any other dictatorship of its kind.

    But what happens when the Federation expands and naturally wars with opposing Empires? What happens when political and cultural diversity begins to spread throughout the more isolated worlds? What happens when the generally secular human society begins to absorb (or be absorbed by) alien cultures? What happens within a few generations of continuous interbreeding, stagnation

    Can we predict that the Federation will remain socialist for much longer? With the expansion of the Federation, there is nothing to stop the gradual decline of socialism and it’s inevitable replacement to that of a capitalist Republic, there is nothing stopping free trade or even the inevitable decline of Federation Earth after some great social upheaval or possibly drawn out rebellion. There is nothing stopping the inevitable possibility of the bell curve finally taking a dip into the negative.

    No, you cannot make such predictions without looking foolish.

    – – –

    Here’s a few questions for the short sighted amongst us.

    1) What if the Silentium decides to overthrow all neighboring Galaxies. What then?
    2) What if the Kwa returned to the universe after thousands of years of continuous technological exploration? What if they advanced to the status of Gods as a result?
    3) What if humans unlocked the Infinity Gates, and undergo a metaphysical state of transcendent hyper-evolution as a result, literally raping the very concept of time and space itself (Thus making time travel impotent) with their new found powers?

    Certainly these are three major scenarios that would undoubtedly alter technological progression for eternity (If the Kwa ever did return I cannot fathom as to how events would unfold), but suggesting that the Empire/Alliance/Republic will advance along this line is tantamount to stating that in the next five hundred years the Federation will be equal to that of their Galactic counterparts.

    Or as we call it in the scientific community “blind and retarded guesswork”.

  59. Locutus May 1, 2009 at 2:49 am -      #59

    “I don’t deal in speculation OR conjecture”

    Then why are you even on this website?

  60. L-W May 1, 2009 at 9:09 am -      #60

    “Then why are you even on this website?”

    There is difference between creating a logical outcome based on available statistics and attributes available to the canonical depiction of a single variable over the course of a single fight, to the “LOL, they’ll be moar powerful in the future, therefore they win” mentality.

    If that was the case, I would suggest that we postpone all future matches until canon sources dictate that they’ve achieved a suitable level of prowess to compete with their opposition, rather than argue the facts that we know of now.

  61. Skrunks May 1, 2009 at 8:56 pm -      #61

    It’s not conjecture. The Federation exists as of the 31st century in official Star Trek canon. It’s when Daniels was from. Q stated that the Federation would have a presence in the Delta Quadrant as late as the 25th century.

    As for what I said:

    memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Temporal_explosion

    memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Wells_class

    memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Temporal_transporter
    (Note on the Temporal Transporter: It was used to move Seven of Nine from Voyager to Utopia Planetia Fleet Yards in the Federation. That is 70,000 light years)

    I’m not spouting conjecture here, what I listed was 29th century technology. I’m giving you facts from the series. It is even stated that Time Travel is so common place in the 31st century that temporal sensors are on every school desk. Furthermore, it can be surmised that no such technological stagnation or dark age has occurred as late as the 31st century, considering just how advanced that technology is.

  62. L-W May 1, 2009 at 11:30 pm -      #62

    You just have no proof that they’ve superseded the Imperials on an equivalent time line.

    Yep, we call that conjecture.

  63. AlphaCommando May 1, 2009 at 11:47 pm -      #63

    Well if its canon…

    A tad silly but we can’t refute it.

  64. G2 May 2, 2009 at 2:32 am -      #64

    Sounds like denial L-W.

    Time ships were being used by the Federation as early as the 26th century. TNG: “A Matter of Time”

    By the 31st century, Federation technology has become so advanced that they’re able to create ships that are larger on the inside than on the outside.
    ENT: “Future Tense”

    The Galactic Republic has existed for tens of thousands of years and yet it never reached the level of technology that the Federation will achieve in only a mere 400 years.

  65. Skrunks May 2, 2009 at 3:18 am -      #65

    “You just have no proof that they’ve superseded the Imperials on an equivalent time line.
    Yep, we call that conjecture.”

    Perhaps, but the Star Wars timeline has been observed to progress until 137 ABY, and the technology, while it has advanced, not by that large a margin. At least no where near the progression made by Starfleet.

    But I do see your point. I thought you had meant that speculating about possible 29th and 31st century technology was the conjecture, as opposed to how they would fare against Imperials of 500 years in the future.

    Anyway, I nominate Slave 1 for the win.

  66. chaostheory626 May 2, 2009 at 4:01 am -      #66

    ^
    agree its canon, we can’t just ignore it if we use canon from the star wars universe

  67. L-W May 2, 2009 at 9:28 am -      #67

    “Sounds like denial L-W. ”

    I only have one request for you, stop being an idiot and *actually* read through a post before responding in kind.

    It’s embarrassing that I have to correct you in such in a manner.

    Nowhere did I state that Time Ships did not exist, my only complaint is that reliable Star Wars canon only goes as far as 100ABY, so claiming that they would effectively reach Imperial levels within an equivalent time line is nigh ridiciuoulus when we know that:

    A) The Hyperspace tunnelers still exist out there somewhere, making time travel possible if discovered. Since Hyperspace is a relativistic rift in real space, utilizing tunnelers is considered the most likely candidate for time travel.
    B) The Kwa could return from the multiverse and make the concept of time and space irrelevant.
    C) The Infinity Gates have yet to be unlocked by human scientists.
    D) They may discover the secret of Nimba 5 and harness it.
    E) It could be possible to harnes the power of Tilotny and utilize the force for mass time transit. for as long as there is a sufficiently powerful force user nearby, maintaining the integrity of the portals should not be of too great a difficulty.
    F) The Alzar region of space could be tunneled and used as a time travel webway.
    G) The second Orb of Passage may be found and mass engineered for time travel as the great Master Tet-Ami once predicted.
    H) Kinnin Vo-Shays discovered that time travel could be accomplished through “crunching” multiple artificial black holes. She traveled through time until she encountered a force ghost and wandered for eternity.
    I) At another time during the Galactic Civil War, Princess Leia Organa, fleeing from the Empire, crashed on an unknown planet. There, she discovered what seemed to be the remains of Imperial stormtroopers who had been dead for many thousands of years.

    The concept of time travel does exist in the Star Wars universe, and even a minor tweaking of the Relativistic shielding of a Hyperspace capable ship can have some fairly interesting results.

  68. Locutus May 2, 2009 at 4:54 pm -      #68

    “Kinnin Vo-Shays discovered that time travel could be accomplished through “crunching” multiple artificial black holes. She traveled through time until she encountered a force ghost and wandered for eternity.”

    Lies.
    What really happened was that this gambler accidentally got stuck in a cluster of Black Holes, encountered a trapped Force ghost who taught him some Force crap, and then he escaped. You state, “She traveled through time until she encountered a force ghost and wandered for eternity,” which is bullshit. HE was just in a time distortion caused by gravitational fields, meaning that time was either nonexistent or passed very slowly inside the natural Black Hole cluster. Only 50 years had passed outside when he finally escaped. The most that this gambler discovered was that one shouldn’t fly through a damn cluster of Black Holes.
    I haven’t checked the accuracy of the other EU evidence you presented, maybe I should.

    According to your EU, “time travel was an exceedingly rare phenomenon, a few cases have been partially documented. No record of deliberate, physical time travel is known—all known cases involved unusual hyperdrive malfunctions, the effects of the Force, or similar exotic events.”

    Yes, some magical highly advanced species could suddenly come back for no reason and give them time travel (even though they haven’t shown their faces for countless thousands of years.) Or they could finally achieve time travel by discovering and unlocking some secret alien tech. Of course that is all just speculation, isn’t it? The fact is that they have at least 25,000 years of space travel technology behind them and yet they still are not capable of traveling through time, other than the few reported “malfunctions” and other excuses. Let 800 years pass for the young Federation and it will have mastered incredible technologies that the ancient Galactic Republic/Empire can only dream of.

  69. L-W May 2, 2009 at 10:44 pm -      #69

    Now you’re just creating an abjuration effect.

    Thank you for trying to read my post, but you failed, try again in future.

    /major facepalm

  70. chaostheory626 May 3, 2009 at 12:39 am -      #70

    Aren’t we a little off topic now? Last I saw their wasn’t a question about the 29th century federation.

  71. Belisaurius May 6, 2009 at 11:44 pm -      #71

    Slave 1 is a patrol ship. The Enterprise is a cruiser.
    Boba Fett doesn’t have the firepower to hurt it.

  72. AlphaCommando May 7, 2009 at 1:00 am -      #72

    Thank you for ignoring the math, good day…

    Oh wait, wrong response…

    READ YOU TWAT!

    The Slave 1 would mince the Enterprise, just look at the weapon output.

    /facepalm

  73. Skrunks May 7, 2009 at 1:27 am -      #73

    “Aren’t we a little off topic now? Last I saw their wasn’t a question about the 29th century federation.”

    We already Established that the Slave I pwns the Enterprise.

    @L-W

    An alteration in the Relativistic Shielding of a Starship can allow for movement forward through ‘time’. But as for actually traveling back to events that haven’t happened yet is an extremely rare phenomenon, and still is no where near as easily utilized as it is in the Future Federation. Anyway, I originally brought it up because pitting the Galactic Federation against the current United Federation of Planets is like putting a modern SWAT member against a Roman soldier from 200 A.D. If the UFP was permitted to advanced to the same state of resource acquisition and populace, I.E. a Galaxy Spanning organization; and then put that UFP against the current Galactic Empire, then I believe the fight would be in the UFP’s favor. I wasn’t trying to say that if both were allowed the same time span for advancement, it would be an even fight.

  74. x on May 7, 2009 at 2:22 am -      #74

    As we see Belisaurius is an idiot or unable to read anything. Everone feel sorry for him.

  75. EnigmaJ May 7, 2009 at 3:25 pm -      #75

    Oh crap. That makes perfect sense! A fictional patrol ship shouldn’t be able to destroy a fictional cruiser from a different universe.

    /sarc

    Using that logic, Boba’s ship shouldn’t be powerful enough to take out the United’s States’ Iowa Class or Montana Class battleships, let alone the powerful Enterprise.

  76. TheSorrow May 7, 2009 at 7:15 pm -      #76

    You know, it’s almost as if L-W is teaching a class. There is always that one kid who doesn’t listen to what the teacher says and then they say,”I don’t get it.” Just analyse the posts before typing, not knowing what you’re talking about.

  77. TheSorrow May 7, 2009 at 7:50 pm -      #77

    You know, it’s almost as if we are in a classroom and L-W is the teacher. There is always that one kid in class that doesn’t pay attention and then after the teacher is down lecturing they say,” I don’t get it.”

    @Enigma

    Analyse the posts, think about it, then start typing before you start saying things that you know nothing about.

  78. EnigmaJ May 8, 2009 at 7:54 pm -      #78

    I guess I didn’t make the obvious sarcasm obvious enough.

  79. Will September 15, 2009 at 2:45 pm -      #79

    This is ridiculous.

    The movies clearly show Slave-1’s guns causing a fireball on the platform in Ep II. They did no damage to the platform or Obi-wan. So clearly they are useless.

    We know that the Enterprise-D can at least cut a hole through rock and can do some damage.

    Logically the Enterprise-D will be the winner in any actual fight. Any other conclusions are a complete failure in understanding fiction through reality.

  80. L-W September 26, 2009 at 2:00 am -      #80

    1) “The movies clearly show Slave-1’s guns causing a fireball on the platform in Ep II. They did no damage to the platform or Obi-wan. So clearly they are useless.”

    Those were high megajoule anti-personnel blasters (pretty obvious from their position on the Slave-I hull), the actual mid-ship guns used in combat were seen shattering and partially melting kilometer wide asteroids with ease, or did you fall asleep during one of the few exciting scenes in the entire snore fest that was Attack of the Clones?

    2) “We know that the Enterprise-D can at least cut a hole through rock and can do some damage.”

    And it took the entire photon torpedo payload of the Enterprise to shatter a 5km asteroid in “Rise”, whereas a single seismic charge released by Slave-I pulverized hundreds of multi-kilometer within a radius of several miles.

    3) “Logically the Enterprise-D will be the winner in any actual fight. Any other conclusions are a complete failure in understanding fiction through reality.”

    I hear this argument all the time. It usually sounds like this:

    “You’ve produced a lot of numbers and calculations and theories to explain why the Empire should be able to beat the Federation, but this is fiction, not reality. In fiction, the good guys always win. Therefore, the Federation would destroy the Empire.”

    Other variations sound like:

    “The Federation always finds a way out of every bad situation. This would be no exception.”
    “The Federation has a lot of ingenuity and has always used that ingenuity to succeed.”

    This is a cute argument, but it grows a bit tiresome with repetition, and it’s really not much of an argument. Yes, good guys always win. But that’s because they’re always pitted against bad guys that they can handle. Pit them against bad guys that are out of their league, and that situation changes.

    For example, let’s take John McClane from “Die Hard” versus Megatron from “the Transformers.” If some insane person wanted to imagine a fight between the two, would you take McClane’s side? Would you argue that he’d use his ingenuity to somehow defeat a 60 foot tall armoured robot that can crumple tanks with his bare hands?

    No, in this case I and other have provided the numbers that demonstrate the inability of the Enterprise to go toe-to-toe with even a pre-Imperial fighter, whereas you’ve just provided rhetoric and hyperbole. In this case the logical victor is Slave-I.

  81. Anti_Halo_Fan_Boy October 6, 2009 at 1:55 pm -      #81

    Ive read the rules about qualifying for the BankGambling award. But im unsure if the nomination can be given at this time, citing the lack of “proper” opposition to slave-1.

    But if it is worth anything, i nominate this slave-1 for the BankGambling award.

  82. L-W October 11, 2009 at 12:12 am -      #82

    I would also like to put forth my nomination.

  83. Who? October 11, 2009 at 12:45 am -      #83

    I feel that I must do the same… Third the motion.

  84. Locutus October 11, 2009 at 12:56 am -      #84

    When did Slave I shatter kilometer wide asteroids with its guns?

  85. Who? October 11, 2009 at 1:28 am -      #85

    “When did Slave I shatter kilometer wide asteroids with its guns?”

    Episode II.

  86. L-W October 11, 2009 at 1:39 am -      #86

    Star Wars: Attack of the Clones: Page 149

    Boba cried out again, but his father was in complete control. He put the ship down a narrow tunnel creasing one of the larger asteroids. He had to slow a bit to maneuver, and when Slave I came out the other end, Jango and Boba saw the Jedi starfighter stream over and past them. The hunted had suddenly become the hunters.

    “Get him, Dad!” Boba cried out. “Get him! Fire!”

    Laser bolts burst out of Slave I, tracing lines all about the starfighter, which cut a snap-roll to the right and down.

    Jango stayed with him, trying to line up another shot, but the Jedi was good, snap-rolling one after another, each time coming out near an asteroid and sliding behind it for cover. Boba continued to urge his father on, but Jango kept his patience, figuring that sooner or later, the Jedi was going to run out of hiding places.

    A fast dive, then a sudden turn back up, then a sudden roll and bank to the right had the Jedi moving behind yet another hazardous kilometer of rock, but this time, instead of following, Jango cut in short of the rock and fired blindly, fracturing it along the center.

    Out of the debris came the Jedi’s starfighter, right into the line of fire, and the ship bucked, pieces flying, as a laser bolt clipped it.

    “You got him!” Boba yelled in victory.

    “And now we just have to finish him,” the ever-cool Jango explained. “There’ll be no more dodging.” He pushed a series of buttons, arming a torpedo and sliding open the tube, then moved to punch the red trigger. He paused, though, and smiled, and nodded for Boba to move closer.

    – – –

    Admittedly we only see a few ~100m rocks shatter in the film, but considering that Slave-I was firing for a solid few seconds, no doubt a few off screen asteroid bit the proverbial dust.

    It makes sense really, the ICS cites that the laser cannons of the Slave-I are rated at 8E12 joules, a few seconds of burst fire would be more than sufficient to overcome the gravitational binding energy of a rock that big.

    If the main guns aren’t enough, let’s not forget that just one of his standard load out of missiles generated a 190 megaton shaped charge detonation equal to six photon torpedoes, a full payload of which would leave nothing more than a coalesced blob of Federation era debris.

    Which is why I once again wish to reiterate my nomination.

  87. Anti_Halo_Fan_Boy October 17, 2009 at 2:01 pm -      #87

    BankGambling Award Slave 1 =)

  88. Tim October 17, 2009 at 2:22 pm -      #88

    I don’t think it would be fair to give the BankGambling Award to Slave 1 as this fight just isn’t fair, the two ships are in two completely different tech/power levels.

  89. Picard578 July 10, 2010 at 10:09 am -      #89

    If it were for movies, Slave I cannot possibly get award – it was incapable of hitting Jedi fighter 10 meters dead ahead. It still had impressive rate of fire, thought. Plus, ST weapons are much stronger, unless we go for EU kids tales.

  90. Picard578 July 10, 2010 at 10:17 am -      #90

    BTW, maximum seen Federation phaser output is around 1-2 gigatons per second and 1/2 to 1 gigaton for photon torpedoes. Slave I weapons are sub-kiloton in any case. Enterprise D can hit 1 meter object from more than 100 000 kilometers (100 year older Constitution class was able to hit 1 m object from 90 000 kilometers) with phasers, and Slave I was unable to hit Jedi fighter 10 meters dead ahead (it hit it in the end, but more by chance – and Boba Fett seemed surprised his father hit it), not to mention decidedly sub-kiloton shot.

  91. Neutrality July 10, 2010 at 10:25 am -      #91

    i remember reading that the slave-1 is superior to the enterprise-D
    LW just confirmed it
    I also nominate slave-1 for the FP win

  92. Neutrality July 10, 2010 at 10:28 am -      #92

    @picard

    Enterprise D can hit 1 meter object from more than 100 000 kilometers (100 year older Constitution class was able to hit 1 m object from 90 000 kilometers) with phasers, and Slave I was unable to hit Jedi fighter 10 meters dead ahead

    Really…i can see how you invoked the wrath of LW
    this 1m object for all we can tell in your post is stationary whilst the jedi athersprite starfighter was maneuvering at high speeds.
    maybe, just maybe it might occur to you that it’s harder to hit a moving target.

  93. Picard578 July 10, 2010 at 10:48 am -      #93

    “Enterprise D can hit 1 meter object from more than 100 000 kilometers (100 year older Constitution class was able to hit 1 m object from 90 000 kilometers) with phasers, and Slave I was unable to hit Jedi fighter 10 meters dead ahead

    Really…i can see how you invoked the wrath of LW
    this 1m object for all we can tell in your post is stationary whilst the jedi athersprite starfighter was maneuvering at high speeds.
    maybe, just maybe it might occur to you that it’s harder to hit a moving target.”

    Slave I was literally sitting on fighter’s tail, less than 10 meters behind it, popping bolts like mad and still scored single hit (Boba was quite surprised with that, indeed). Thanks, but I would rather take P-51 Mustang, at least regarding accuracy.

  94. Neutrality July 10, 2010 at 11:03 am -      #94

    @picard
    can you prove it was 10 metres away?
    besides Fett also had to look out for asteroids while trying to shoot down A JEDI in his starfighter
    R4 may have even been doing some electronic warfare-possible but i can’t know for sure

  95. Neutrality July 10, 2010 at 11:07 am -      #95

    @Picard
    also you do realise the asteroid field makes great cover?
    Obiwan only needed to worry about dodging the asteroids and using them as cover in additin to his affinity with the force providing him with foresight.
    Jango isn’t force sensitive

  96. Neutrality July 10, 2010 at 11:10 am -      #96

    oh and i just found that the fight takes place in an asteroid field…what a coincidence
    *laughs evilly*

  97. Picard578 July 10, 2010 at 12:02 pm -      #97

    “also you do realise the asteroid field makes great cover?
    Obiwan only needed to worry about dodging the asteroids and using them as cover in additin to his affinity with the force providing him with foresight.
    Jango isn’t force sensitive”

    I still think Jango should have ripped Obi-wan’s fighter to shreds – I mean, it was 5 meters behind.

  98. Neutrality July 10, 2010 at 12:08 pm -      #98

    @Picard
    I still think Jango should have ripped Obi-wan’s fighter to shreds – I mean, it was 5 meters behind.
    -Really? before it was 10 meters behind…how could this be?
    please…i respect your opinion but these transforming distances are not helping you

  99. Neutrality July 10, 2010 at 12:14 pm -      #99

    @a little term i picked up on these forums…i do believe Obiwan was protected by what we call “plot shielding” that may explain alot but still my previous arguments stand.

  100. Picard578 July 11, 2010 at 1:56 am -      #100

    “-Really? before it was 10 meters behind…how could this be?”

    I made better scaling. I think it is actually somwhere between 5 and 10 meters. Still too close for Obi-Wan to be saved by anything else except Jango’s poor targeting.

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