Link & Cloud Vs Kratos & Dante

Link & Cloud Strife Vs Kratos & Dante

As much as I enjoy the Zelda games, and the Link character, in this match it means little. For me, this match will be over in a few minutes as Kratos pummels Link while Cloud and Dante dance around. Then once Link is vanquished, the double team will be too much for Cloud.

What say you?

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922 Comments on "Link & Cloud Vs Kratos & Dante"

  1. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 2:37 pm -      #801

    @Ka-tet

    “but if nothing is specified we usually assume he has all obtainable powers”

    Well there isnt a rule for this is there? Some powers its purely player choice whether he gets them or not and some rewards and items across the final fantasies you get from things like achivements or gameplay related mini games. I dont agree with the belief a character like Cloud necesserily has everything a player can give him or would use everything a player has access to because he never does. CIS is relevent here and I dont think theres enough evidence for what Cloud actually has.

    Was it specified at any point what Cloud is being given? I disagree with just listing things players like using and saying “thats what cloud does”, player choice is often the opposite to canon. Just because in Skyrim I used cheesy tactics or overpowred mechanics does not mean thats what the Dova actualyl did, and someone elses experiances could be different anyway.

    Also if materia was beginning to fall out of use as that quote says wouldnt that mean Cloud is less likely to use it anyway?

    @Dassadec

    “increase by 50-400%”

    A gameplay percentage that has little to nogauge beyond mechanics. If we were using gameplay mechanics Cloud has to rely on whether ot not its his turn to attack or if he has enough action points, obviously this is all nonsense.

    -

  2. hellboy147 May 16, 2013 at 2:40 pm -      #802

    ” kratos is killed by link”

    You sure about that? What is link moving speed? Kratos has a lot in his arsenal, link is outclassed here

  3. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 2:42 pm -      #803

    wouldn’t dante just start the fight by raining bullets like an animal on both of them and killing link? or is he a bullet timer?

  4. hellboy147 May 16, 2013 at 2:45 pm -      #804

    Dante handle cloud with bullets & kratos with Apollos bow to link and when link comes close kratos use army of Sparta or claws of Hades to soul f link then cloud is left alone .

  5. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 2:46 pm -      #805

    Cloud’s buster sword if solid steel is about 200lb and he can 1 hand it casually, for extended periods. honestly its about all he’s got for guageable able strength feats. He can’t really physically match Dante but his magic( and any other FF7 character) wrecks the opposition. Cloud only trumps from his bullet time feats over the rest of the cast besides Vincent

  6. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 2:47 pm -      #806

    Links no bullet timer, and Dante probably would. I dont know if Cloud could dodge dantes fire considering Dantes accuracy either. If this is DMC 2 dante you could see a pair of MP5′s opening up, combined with devil power bullets and Dants precision he could keep the pair low while kratos goes in for the kill.

  7. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 2:49 pm -      #807

    If I’m not mistaken Link already beat Kratos and was awarded a FP
    factpile.com/202-link-vs-kratos/

  8. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 2:51 pm -      #808

    right but im saying im not even sure if kratos would have to fight link alone. dantes known for delivering a shit load of gun fire at multiple targets. i don’t know a lot about kratos or link. but from what i can tell kratos would probably take him. if not he can definitely defeat him while hes being shot at at least.

  9. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 2:52 pm -      #809

    Kratos is not alone however in this example making it different. Not that I agree to Link beating Kratos, Kratos has potential to kill link but his character suggests melee, and admittadly his magic resistance to something like quake or “spell” is wanting. That said, if I recall both spells only work on certain enemies, genrally weak ones, others it just does damage to no?

    Kratos is stronger and more physically durable. Link needs his shield and magic to compare.

  10. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 2:54 pm -      #810

    Cloud knows omnislash in AC. Omnislash can only be obtained in the gold saucer coliseum. You pretty much “need” clouds hax materia setup outlined by originalA on page 1 to get it. Therefore cloud has used it.

  11. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 2:59 pm -      #811

    “Links no bullet timer, and Dante probably would. I dont know if Cloud could dodge dantes fire considering Dantes accuracy either. If this is DMC 2 dante you could see a pair of MP5′s opening up, combined with devil power bullets and Dants precision he could keep the pair low while kratos goes in for the kill.”
    -
    dante fires ebony and ivory faster than automatic weapons anyway check this out www.youtube.com/watch?v=88umaJiKMWA&list=ELGzrGI6nZgJM&feature=player_detailpage#t=590s
    -
    thats why i always hated the fact those guns were even on the game

  12. hellboy147 May 16, 2013 at 3:01 pm -      #812

    Blade of Olympus in rage of Sparta. Boots of Hermes quick boost in speed. I m on my cell right cannot post a link, Kratos fought several multiple enemies like sisters of fate and also three witches in gow ascension.

    About link shield and magic it won’t be enough to stop kratos who can toss titans, kratos magic is far stronger than link.

    Dassadec
    Link won against kratos because it was poorly debeated and at that time fanboyism use to work. Kratos.

  13. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:02 pm -      #813

    ” You pretty much “need” clouds hax materia setup outlined by originalA on page 1 to get it. Therefore cloud has used it.”
    -
    im sure there is a youtube video of someone beating it with a different setup

  14. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:04 pm -      #814

    my link is supposed to start at 950 idk why it didnt

  15. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 3:08 pm -      #815

    @Dassadec

    “You pretty much “need” clouds hax materia setup outlined by originalA on page 1 to get it. Therefore cloud has used it.”

    What a player equips or even a bunch of them equip is as i said not canon, its not the same as an actual key required for an unsurpassable barrier. I dont recall how hard that colissium was, as I said I have not played it god knows how long, I remember the “weapons” being tough if their from the same game but regardless as i said. Theres a different between actually needed for the plot or needed because its doable by the player that way.

    Theres no way you can prove “only” that setup can clear the colissium.

    @Ka-tet

    “i always hated the fact those guns were even on the game”

    I hated most weapons in DMC 2, they seemed both generic and uninteresting but then most of DMC 2 was a bit sloppy.

  16. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:11 pm -      #816

    however are these things items or spells?

  17. worrior091 May 16, 2013 at 3:13 pm -      #817

    sry left for awhile. link beats kratos because he already has on this site. if everyone was useing teemwork to its highest extent, then team one would win because of the vast resevour of abilities, spells, items, ect. it would go either like it did in my first comment, or the battle would be primarly link and cloud hiding behind the shield until cloud charged up a powerful spell or saw an opening and took it. i was trying to be nice. i have to look at the rules but, im pretty sure that it says all characters get EVERYTHING they have ever had access to unless they lost it before the most current version.

  18. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:14 pm -      #818

    “I hated most weapons in DMC 2, they seemed both generic and uninteresting but then most of DMC 2 was a bit sloppy.”
    -
    yeah merciless was ok but thats the only dante weapon that stood out to me. the amulet is a sweet item though. the thing that game has going for it i must say is devil trigger is sweet as hell. plus majin devil trigger is beastly.

  19. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 3:16 pm -      #819

    materia are items technically speaking. Unless they have been changed by other canon. In AC they were actualy objects. Magic in final fantasy or at least this universe of it isnt something you learn like an arcane Dungeons and dragons esque sorcery, their objects made from makai/lifestream.

    Personalyl I laways thought of them similiar to Bioshock amps but I think you can take them out and put new ones in.

  20. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 3:21 pm -      #820

    In FF 7 canon they get slotted into weapon and armor and can be switched outside combat. AC simply shows them as being drawn into Kadaj’s braver which makes sense takin clouds fusion sword’d functionality into account

  21. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 3:23 pm -      #821

    Bracer not braver

  22. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:23 pm -      #822

    @worrior
    incarnation is different depending on characters and reboots. like lets take dante. DMC2 dante is the same character and incarnation as DMC3 dante just further down the time line. similar to sayain saga goku and buu saga goku. however DmC dante is an entirely different universe so he wouldn’t get items or feats from previous universe dante.
    -
    this is only semi related but no he doesn’t get every single item. and no its is not in the rules. that’d be a composite character.

  23. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:24 pm -      #823

    well how do you obtain the items? do you beat bosses for them etc?

  24. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:28 pm -      #824

    “if everyone was useing teemwork to its highest extent, then team one would win because of the vast resevour of abilities, spells, items, ect.”
    -
    as far as teamwork goes i think quick silver is the monster here. that’d make kratos deadly fast.

  25. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 3:32 pm -      #825

    Some are bought some are found, some are rewards some are side quests. But to discount side quests as non canon is to do the same to Vincent and Yuffie. Although that’s retconned somewhat by AC and DoC but still they were both missable to the same degree as some of those materia. The only one I might expect a casual player to miss would be contain but even then it takes talking to one thing to get it. Master magic takes work but if you have omnislash you pretty much have it too

  26. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 3:34 pm -      #826

    well by that logic dante would have bangle of time and stomp. but rewards? is there anything that you have to get to beat the game etc?

  27. Aelfinn May 16, 2013 at 3:36 pm -      #827

    “If I’m not mistaken Link already beat Kratos and was awarded a FP”
    -
    That’s because that was Composite Link, which if he is here, it should still apply. He’s got a time stop, which is more than enough to take out Kratos.
    -
    “What a player equips or even a bunch of them equip is as i said not canon”
    -
    …Which means we get to pick it. It becomes a matter of PIS not to choose the best equipment to equip yourself with.

  28. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm -      #828

    Not really, you could go through the whole game with only initial equipment of you wanted. Fire and Lightning materia were all that was literally unmissable. As in walk by every box, some bosses dropped a materia here and there but didn’t equate to much. That’s contradicted by the Box full of the stuff in Clouds possession in AC. Including the good stuff like Master Summon. Hence how Kadaj and co could summon all manner of beasties

  29. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 3:41 pm -      #829

    You dont get to choose, it is assuming he had prep clouds choice not yours. If we dont know Clouds choice then we cant assume what he would have assuming he got those things at all, as i said before many of these materia are player choice to both gain or to use. Its not standard for Cloud to have every materia in the game nor is it known standard he would use it.

    And best is objective, considering the only weapon we know for a fact hes used effectivelly is his sword which is what he has used to defeat arguably his most powerful opponent thats the only “factual” weapon we know Cloud couldnt do without. That and the ribbon he wears all the time as the most factual piece of equpment. After that its just guesses you “want” to use.

  30. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 3:47 pm -      #830

    I know for a fact cloud can quadra cast spells I’ve seen it hundereds of times I know for a fact he can begin battles with auto shields just because you don’t like his plethora of abilities doesn’t mean he wouldn’t use these to the best capacity Aelfinn makes perfect sense in saying its PIS.

  31. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 3:49 pm -      #831

    @Dassadec

    “Including the good stuff like Master Summon. Hence how Kadaj and co could summon all manner of beasties”

    Didnt they gain the ability to summon through the lifestream though? the stream being the source for the materia in the first place? I thought its often argued that Sephiroth being lifestream incarnate basically has all materia wasnt it? hence the summons, could have been a misconception on my part.

    Is there a canon list on what Cloud actually has in his chest beyond guesswork?

  32. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 3:50 pm -      #832

    We do get to choose, we got to for 30+ hours of gameplay or more. Just like Dante still gets his unlock able skills through the soul shop thing after all its the players choice to spend souls to upgrade and learn double jumps and air trick type stuff.

  33. Aelfinn May 16, 2013 at 3:53 pm -      #833

    But that means Cloud had no preference, and if he has no preference, it therefore means that he has no CIS on the matter. If he has no CIS, it is PIS for him NOT to choose the best!
    -
    “best is objective”
    -
    Best as in “gives him the most options for attack while also defending him in the best manner”.
    -
    “After that its just guesses you “want” to use.”
    -
    It isn’t guesses, though. It’s just a rational choice about what a non-stupid character would use.

  34. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 3:53 pm -      #834

    @Dassadec

    “like his plethora ”

    I dont like the plethora of guesses and player chosen combinations from player chosen powers being used just because you cant find feats for Clouds own personality and tactics beyond AC where he had none. I doubt theres any script for Cloud in the games or AC that suggests hes an avid user of any of those materia your relyong on him using here.

    I am sure youve seen Cloud and co die countless times as well because youve misplayed a boss, that doesnt mean he dies to such enemies all the time either. Saying how youve combated in gameplayis of no interest to me, my Dova in Skyrim fought most dragons naked for a challenge and on more than one occasion I had playthroughs where i didnt bother with dragon shouts, that doesnt mean I can claim the Dova tanks dragon impacts on his bare flesh as a feat or cite how I played the character as how the Dova fights in reality.

  35. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 3:56 pm -      #835

    No, the one that fought Tifa took clouds stash of materia. Easily 50 pieces of the stuff. The shot haired one that fought Tifa had Quake so they are confirmed to have Contain and master summon from that and summoning bahamut and the runners I can’t remember what other magic they showed.
    Those are the only ones 100% confirm able. BUT if those are there and active it lends massive support to cloud having everything since those are in the missable category

  36. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 3:58 pm -      #836

    @Aefinn

    “it is PIS ”

    Theres no actual PIS to be noted either. As I said its all player choice, we dont know what Cloud would choose, and its your claim on what is or is not the best.

    “It isn’t guesses”

    It is because your talking purely from hindsight and your own knowledge as a player outside of the game, you dont know anything about Clouds knowledge on these things, if he has all of them or if he prefers to just use his trusty sword, which is all he has used in reality. Cloud doesnt have to be stupid to not have certain items or player chosen abilities for him. infact it could be more stupid to overcomplicate what he uses, considering in the past his sword has been more than enough and the lack of materia didnt stop him against his most powerful opponent.

  37. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:01 pm -      #837

    @Dassadec

    “lends massive support ”

    You can affiliate, you can only claim those things are certain to have been in the box I suppose. Also what happened afterwards, is Cloud actually seen takin all his materia back and using it? was it lost or absorbed by Sephiroths lifestream? do we know beyond any shadow of a doubt he still uses it?

    If those powers were in the box why didnt the trio use “death” or “stop” or all those “hax” abilities anyway? CIS could be one suggestion but I didnt think all 3 were stupid considering combined their essences of Sephiroth iirc whos no idiot and should be as rational as you belive Cloud is at the very least.

  38. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 4:03 pm -      #838

    “Link won against kratos because it was poorly debeated and at that time fanboyism use to work. Kratos.”
    /
    You’re wrong. With hyrule historia out, there are three current Links out there. Two with magic that can polymorph Kratos

  39. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 4:03 pm -      #839

    By your logic the whole of FF 7 is inadmissable. And feats can only be drawn from AC. FF7 is the primary canon not AC especially when AC has clear cut plot showing why Cloud doesn’t have his shit. Every spell and ability in FF7 is only EVER shown in battle the exceptions being holy and Meteor and by your standards inadmissable.

  40. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 4:05 pm -      #840

    Though Dante should be fast enough to escape the AoE and Cloud has ribbon, which nulls Link’s polymorph

  41. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 4:07 pm -      #841

    admin October 26, 2008 at 8:26 am – #5
    @El Zilcho – unless a scenario is specified, all matches have the characters with all their available weapons/skills from all of their adventures.
    -
    @ alpha and 0
    Link is on Clouds team here bro 2v2

  42. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:08 pm -      #842

    @Dassadec

    “whole of FF 7 is inadmissable”

    No only the claims on what Cloud could use, would use or may use is inadmissable. its not my fault the games not got as well described lore. Its a fact that many games have little to no actual feats or are hard to grasp on facts, I said as much in the “capital ships” thread on the topia concerning Homeworld 2 capital ships not having feats, its a fact of gaming that not all universes are well thought out, not all characters are fleshed out in charcter or what abilities they have or will use.

    Hence why it was a poor idea to post this thread without actually outlining specifics. Such as what Link were using, what equipment everyone has etc. I am surprised it was not confirmed early in the thread.

  43. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 4:09 pm -      #843

    Oh then Link beats Kratos then with time-stop and polymorph.
    /
    “Link is on Clouds team here bro 2v2″
    /
    I know, I was just stating why Cloud won’t be affected by Link’s polymorph.

  44. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 4:10 pm -      #844

    That quote from admin and the rules considering unspecified matches say cloud and Link own this match

  45. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 4:11 pm -      #845

    i think it makes perfect sense to give cloud things that will help him. my only problem is if you had to acquire them. i mean it wouldn’t be fair if we gave dante a shit load of gold orbs, invincible stars, etc.

  46. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 4:11 pm -      #846

    Oh is links polymorph an aoe or wide scale ability?

  47. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:13 pm -      #847

    @Dassadec

    “with all their ”

    Materia does not necesserily all belong to Cloud though, those specific ones you mentioned beyond those actually stated in AC may not be in his chest even if its likely and materia is not specific to a single person anyway.

    “standard power-set and equipment associated with their used incarnations ”

    This is the actual rules on the matter, Clouds standard power set is not the best player decided combination for this matchup unless actually stated by the thread maker and changed within the 50 posts.

    “Link is on Clouds team here bro 2v2″

    He may be on Clouds team but CLoud may be hit by some of Links AoE still. So what he said is relevent.

  48. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:17 pm -      #848

    @Ka-tet

    “i mean it wouldn’t be fair if we gave dante a shit load of gold orbs, invincible stars, etc.”

    By Dassadecs logic Dante should be allowed plenty of all of those things, as well as all items hes ever had, including his whole armament line up since DMC 1. Including any objects hes had. My friends and I always like invincability stars and healing before entering DMD modes bosses therefore those objects should be allowed?

  49. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 4:20 pm -      #849

    @ kitten
    hence the flaw in the logic im getting off for now will be on later

  50. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:27 pm -      #850

    Also concering Cloud, in the games theres also other weapons like Ultima weapon and another sword beginning with A that I remember being more powerful than the buster sword, yet Cloud in AC uses the buster sword…or something that looks like it.

    Clearly Cloud has preferances even if their not clear, and doesnt simply use what you may think is more powerful.

  51. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 4:38 pm -      #851

    “Oh is links polymorph an aoe or wide scale ability?”
    /
    Well, spell spell is an instant aoe while quake medallion is a wide-scale ability.
    Quake medallion

  52. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 4:41 pm -      #852

    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KpM9kw0Mf24#t=218s
    /
    Ugh link fix’d
    /
    “Also concering Cloud, in the games theres also other weapons like Ultima weapon and another sword beginning with A that I remember being more powerful than the buster sword, yet Cloud in AC uses the buster sword…or something that looks like it.”
    /
    It’s the Fusion Sword, a sword that has a bunch of swords and about 7 materia slots when combined altogether

  53. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm -      #853

    Go ahead. That just brings the auto life effect of actual Phoenix down and Elixir items from DoC/CC into effect as well as Links 99 fairies in the four sword. Resulting in 203 lives for cloud and 130 some odd lives for link with all his bottlesincluded though incarnations
    Materia are skills or the ff7 equivalent of them. Not items or they would be in the item page.

  54. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm -      #854

    The whole what materia cloud has, would use etc discussion aside.

    Aside from Firaga theres like no cast time feats for the actual spell combinations claimed beyond using the in-game animations, which is fine of course but if I recall most are fairly slow or drawn out. Firaga being in the 2-3 second range of cast time does not make all spells that speed or indeed combination spells, theres no precedent for that.

    Clouds not faceing an enemy whos going to stand around, as Ka-tet pointed out both of team 1 can be under a hail of gunfire from the get go. Not giving time for charging up anything or much decision making beyond defending themselves.

  55. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:49 pm -      #855

    @Dassadec

    “Go ahead”

    -

    You missed the point, were not “going ahead” with those ideas because its flawed logic.

  56. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 4:52 pm -      #856

    You aren’t understanding im not saying consumables are valid here I was talking about the abilities Dante learns through spending red orbs. And equatin those with materia.

  57. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 4:56 pm -      #857

    Red orbs are simply uncanon experiance points, most abilities Dante gains are shown in the games cutscenes. Most youll see me mention as part of an argument will have their own cutscene. Materia are different, their actual canon objects that are collected, their more like collectables than Dantes abilities are.

  58. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm -      #858

    I get what you are saying I really do, but at the end of the day you are asking cloud to fight with one armed tied behind his back. And I will flat out reject that. You are literally wasting your time here I’m not goin to be convinced Cloud wouldn’t use any and all tools at his disposal

  59. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 5:21 pm -      #859

    Well ten youll have to agree to disagree, maybe youll convince Ka-tet eventually but I dont belive Cloud has the prep in this match to get what materia combinatio he wants to perfectly negate these opponents, he doesn know the powers he will specifcall want to negate and to add to that we dont know Clouds personality enough to assume he would do so. He is literally being grabbed straight from the end of AC, or w/e the latest chhronological version of him is and tossed int othe arena with the knowledge he has to kill a quick demonically infused halfbreed and a demigod warrior with the help of Link.

    I cant be convinced he has any more than what he has shown or has stated himself to use beyond his sword and ribbon on him.

    Still, what you cant discuss beyond whats shown is cast times. You dont know if the cast time for all skills is the same even if he ad them, nor can you possibly belive Dante wont be blasting on him with something as soon as the match starts, not giving “any” cast time required abilities.

    Also, the pheonix thing is as I suspected works on “koed” members, not dead ones. It says as much on the final fantasy wiki. It never made sense to me that the bird would be summoned even when the people supposedly summoning are dead so Cloud potentially only has one life.

  60. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 16, 2013 at 6:06 pm -      #860

    okay read through this thread but to make sure I understand where we are right now, what are the current arguments for both sides summed up

  61. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:09 pm -      #861

    ok this is getting out of hand. dante has the ability to use the abilities he has in game because those are dantes abilities. you just unlock them as part of the gameplay.
    -
    cloud can use the items that he acquired in the game sure. the problem is what did he actually acquire? are their any cutscenes? dante got bangle of time in a side mission but its not part of his standard load out. so which items did he get as part of the actual game and not a side mission.

  62. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:10 pm -      #862

    @ guardian
    we haven’t even really debated. were arguing about equipment.

  63. Kyuuketsuki May 16, 2013 at 6:11 pm -      #863

    Dracula solos

  64. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:12 pm -      #864

    did 13th vamp get a new BankGambling name? lol

  65. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 16, 2013 at 6:13 pm -      #865

    okay, and I saw an argument about Advent Children feats and what they mean for equipment on Cloud’s part? What exactly is the issue there?

  66. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:15 pm -      #866

    were debating if cloud can use some super hax Materia set up even though some of them were acquired in side missions.

  67. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 16, 2013 at 6:16 pm -      #867

    @Ka-tet
    yeah I think he changed it.

  68. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 6:18 pm -      #868

    What specific materia can be proven to be not only in Clouds arsenal, but what he is likely to have equiped as per his final showing chronologically, which i assume is the end of advent children. Assuming he never equiped them at the end of AC he may not even have them, but assuming he did. We simply dont know for a fact he has all the materia, or would choose the combination of materia the players in this thread want him to. Basically Cloud is without cinematics or much lore behind him. What he actually has is vague as is how hes likely to use it.

    Beyond his sword. This is all, still imo irrelevent because I think Dante is too fast and using his guns, can make casting spells impossible anyway even if they do all take only a few seconds.

  69. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:22 pm -      #869

    my problem isn’t giving him the hax set up i just don’t think its fair to give him what are obtained in side missions. like i said we wouldn’t give dante bangle of time. like i said show me some cutscenes or something. give me a reason to believe cloud has this even though it was never specified.

  70. Kyuuketsuki May 16, 2013 at 6:22 pm -      #870

    Yes I did.
    -
    On the side missions thing, Canon rule changes from game to game so if he has the materia, or there is a rule were they keep materia no matter what then he would keep it.
    -
    If not then he doesn’t pretty simple.
    -
    Also I see what Alpha is saying about Newte being the new Dante, I see how the rules could say that then again it is debateable.

  71. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 6:24 pm -      #871

    Ammovamp, why? I already nailed down ammo, now I wont recognise Kyuuketsuki, who is Kyuu?

  72. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 6:24 pm -      #872

    Actually, Dirge of Cerberus is the current event, one year after Advent Children
    /
    Out of curiosity, how fast is Dante.

  73. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:25 pm -      #873

    “Also I see what Alpha is saying about Newte being the new Dante, I see how the rules could say that then again it is debateable.”
    -
    the way i see it that game is a spin off thats why its in an alternate universe. either way its obvious which dante is desired for a match so it doesn’t really matter. plus this thread was made pre newte so its irrelevant.

  74. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:27 pm -      #874

    did anyone have a problem with my mach 20+ claim? if not mach 17. mach 56 reaction.

  75. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 6:29 pm -      #875

    Not sure, wheres mach 20+ from? Ive never actually seen him fight at mach 20, theres some mentions on Temiguru tower falls I have seen. And as or mach 56 reaction, i dont know where thats from either.

  76. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:32 pm -      #876

    mach 20+ is because you can air trick faster than blitz and he was calc’d at mach 20. mach 56 is because he dodged mundus lightning in the novel which was calc’d at mach 56.

  77. Kyuuketsuki May 16, 2013 at 6:32 pm -      #877

    I don’t know,once I change my image my name will be back, this image just said Kyuuketsuki to me so I said why not
    -
    “the way i see it that game is a spin off thats why its in an alternate universe. either way its obvious which dante is desired for a match so it doesn’t really matter. plus this thread was made pre newte so its irrelevant.”
    -
    Like I said debateable, now if you look its current incarnation and Newte is the current Dante on a technicality. Like If I said Dracula from castlevania, it would be Gabriel Belmont incarnation from the Reboot. because they are the currents of there Form of Fiction even thought they are different continuation.
    -

  78. Dassadec May 16, 2013 at 6:33 pm -      #878

    Yeah the highest I saw was the tower run scene as well, any that was Mach 14-17 last I heard. The Mach 56 RT I haven’t seen a actual calc for

  79. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:33 pm -      #879

    either way i’m still working on giving some merit to the feat where he moves faster than argosax can see. still need to get my hands on the novel so i can get some reaction time feats for certain characters.

  80. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 6:38 pm -      #880

    @Ka-tet

    “mach 20+ is because you can air trick faster than blitz and he was calc’d at mach 20. mach 56 is because he dodged mundus lightning in the novel which was calc’d at mach 56.”

    I dont know about the blitz thing since Blitz has erratic movements, sometimes its lighting and sometimes it stops to attack, air trick is more of a quick dash though rather than baseline movement and can I see the quote on Mundus lightning dodge?

  81. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 6:40 pm -      #881

    DMC Devil May Cry is the main universe since it’s a reboot and starts the whole franchise again.
    /
    Not that it matters since we’re using everything
    /
    “mach 20+ is because you can air trick faster than blitz and he was calc’d at mach 20.”
    /
    ….’Air trick faster than blitz’….?
    Can I see the calculation.
    /
    “mach 56 is because he dodged mundus lightning in the novel which was calc’d at mach 56.”
    /
    Devil May Cry had a novel?
    Also let me see this calc,

  82. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 16, 2013 at 6:40 pm -      #882

    I don’t know if Cloud does anything impressive in view in Dirge of Cerberus but as far as I know nothing changed between Advent Children/Advent Children complete the last time he used the move on Sephiroth, and Dirge of Cerberus which are all part of the FF7 continuity, so as far as I can tell if he needed that specific materia loadout in canon to get the Omnislash (and that is how he kills Sephiroth no matter if you bother to get it or not) meaning that in canon he used that loadout to get it, and if that is in fact the most powerful loadout/most useful loadout I don’t see why it would be changed. But I’m no expert on anyone but Kratos.

  83. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:41 pm -      #883

    “Like I said debateable, now if you look its current incarnation and Newte is the current Dante on a technicality. Like If I said Dracula from castlevania, it would be Gabriel Belmont incarnation from the Reboot. because they are the currents of there Form of Fiction even thought they are different continuation.”
    -
    well usually people say dante from DMC so as long as no one typos and say DmC we’ll be ok lol.
    -
    “Yeah the highest I saw was the tower run scene as well, any that was Mach 14-17 last I heard. The Mach 56 RT I haven’t seen a actual calc for”
    -
    www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17477
    blitz calc. and all the reaction time stuff was posted before i even joined the site so im not sure where to find it. i might have to do some serious digging.

  84. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 6:45 pm -      #884

    “Devil May Cry had a novel?
    Also let me see this calc,”
    -
    its had three. i think two is the only canon one though. i know one wasn’t canon and im not sure about the devil may cry 4 novel. looking for calc now.

  85. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 6:48 pm -      #885

    @Guardian

    “I can tell if he needed that specific materia loadout ”

    This is mostly conjecture, it cannot be proven that is the only loadout anyone has ever done it with. I find it unlikely, since you hear this sort of thing all the time. I have heard it from Darksouls players, “oh you can only beat X boss with X stats/gear” then you find a youtube vid of it being done naked and with basic abilities.

  86. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 16, 2013 at 6:53 pm -      #886

    just saying that the cutscene shows Cloud using it whether or not you bother with the mission. If you can find any information on if someone used a different loadout to get it that would help

  87. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 6:55 pm -      #887

    “blitz calc. and all the reaction time stuff was posted before i even joined the site so im not sure where to find it. i might have to do some serious digging.”
    /
    Um, they used frames. In Pit vs Kratos, we weren’t allowed to use frames as they are unreliable, otherwise, Pit dodged a mach 154 laser if we go by frame.

  88. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 6:57 pm -      #888

    @Guardian

    -
    “just saying that the cutscene shows Cloud using it whether or not you bother with the mission. If you can find any information on if someone used a different loadout to get it that would help”

    Burdon of proof is at first on the person who thinks its impossible for anyone to use a different loadout than the materia loadout they used or is common to use on the colossium to get omnislash. All we know is he has ominslash canonically, how he got it I dont know, in FF7 you get it from the battledome but if I recall Cloud has it in the fight with Sephiroth anyway even if you dont bother getting it earlier.

  89. hellboy147 May 16, 2013 at 6:58 pm -      #889

    Are they all at their current powers and stuff?

    Alpha or omega
    To be honest I was not here when they posted a match kratos vs link and it’s been stated link was at his strongest .

  90. Kyuuketsuki May 16, 2013 at 7:04 pm -      #890

    If we are using everything
    -
    “Not that it matters since we’re using everything”
    -
    Then Doesn’t Link and Cloud stomp from various Haxes?

  91. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 7:05 pm -      #891

    i don’t know what feat your talking about i’d have to see it

  92. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 7:07 pm -      #892

    why are we using everything?

  93. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 7:10 pm -      #893

    “i don’t know what feat your talking about i’d have to see it”
    /
    You don’t need to since I remember what Proto-mind said.
    Frames are something that are part of the game and not something that would be in-universe. They are just something to help show cinematics/pictures. Frames can also be used as a blur effect. The creators don’t intend frames to be used to gauge speed.

  94. Kitten Lord May 16, 2013 at 7:12 pm -      #894

    Were not using “everything”, the most current rules outline standard items/powers related to that character. Its still not clear, nor am i convinced that Cloud has “all” the hacks claimed. And the haxes are “mostly” reliant on casting something, which against Dante is not especially fast.

  95. ka-tet19 May 16, 2013 at 7:23 pm -      #895

    “You don’t need to since I remember what Proto-mind said.
    Frames are something that are part of the game and not something that would be in-universe. They are just something to help show cinematics/pictures. Frames can also be used as a blur effect. The creators don’t intend frames to be used to gauge speed.”
    -
    i don’t really see any other way this feat can be calc’d.

  96. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 7:26 pm -      #896

    “i don’t really see any other way this feat can be calc’d.”
    /
    Then we have to rely on how much time it did to cross a certain distance. Scaling would probably be used here.

  97. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 7:27 pm -      #897

    But since there it uses frames only…..it makes it hard to calc.
    You would probably need to find the at the part where Dante hits him, but you would need to find how much time was slowed down.

  98. Alpha or Omega May 16, 2013 at 7:31 pm -      #898

    *probably need to find the speed at the part where Dante hits him

  99. Aelfinn May 16, 2013 at 9:09 pm -      #899

    If this is old Dante, though, does he still have Quiksilver? I know we had a big debate about whether Current Old Dante still had it, and I think we said he didn’t have it because he didn’t use it the entirety of DMC 2. However, if he did have it, I’m pretty sure it would allow him to win.
    -
    Regardless of that, is there anything stopping Link from time-stopping and killing both Kratos and Dante?

  100. Zazax May 17, 2013 at 7:49 pm -      #900

    Wait, is this *another* argument that Cloud doesn’t have all his gear?
    Seriously?
    It’s an RPG, people. Deal with it, holy shit.
    Every other RPG character is assumed to have all their stuff, regardless of if it’s from a sidequest or an out-of-the way collectible or not. Case in point: Shouts from Skyrim. You never see people arguing if the Dragonborn has learned all his Shouts, do you? Why is it different for Cloud and materia?
    Besides, it’s been ruled numerous times by admin himself that Cloud gets all his shit.
    -
    “Regardless of that, is there anything stopping Link from time-stopping and killing both Kratos and Dante?”
    Probably not, but if there is, Cloud can do it too.

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