Galactic Empire Vs The Tyranids

Galactic Empire Vs The Tyranids

Here is a match that would be great fun to watch. While I think the Empire could hold out for a ‘lil bit, in the end the Tyranids would ultimately overwhelm them in numbers and even with Vader wiping out many Tyranids, the Empire would most likely fall.

What say you?

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391 Comments on "Galactic Empire Vs The Tyranids"

  1. Kara Zor-El July 7, 2013 at 8:35 pm -      #301

    “Unless they had one near the moment of the Empire’s fall, they don’t get it here.”
    _
    “Right because it’s not like one of them survived to be available to the New Republic”
    _
    If one survived the fall of the Empire long enough to eventually be scuttled by the New Republic, wouldn’t the Empire get at least one, by what Aelfinn said?

  2. Neon Lord July 7, 2013 at 8:38 pm -      #302

    “Even if the Tyranids take and devour a planet, they don’t use everything on it before they move on.”
    -
    I would just like to point out first that this is wrong. Everything on a planet is devoured before the planets move on. Oceans, mountains, minerals, the lot

  3. Aelfinn July 7, 2013 at 8:38 pm -      #303

    “and I looked it up and the Empire did fall shortly after, though I don’t know the exact length of time, the destruction of the other devastators the Galaxy gun, and Palpatines final defeat. ”
    -
    By “fall shortly thereafter” I am referring to the rule where combatants are in their current incarnation or their last combat-viable incarnation. Considering the Empire got the Galaxy Gun right after the WD’s, I would find them still combat-viable.
    -
    “Well shucks, Aelfinn just popped my dreams of World Devastator victory.”
    -
    However cool it would have been, it can not be so today. I’m sorry.

  4. ZomBertholdt Fubar July 7, 2013 at 8:41 pm -      #304

    I’d say the last real combat capable GE was actually Dark Empire. After Palpatine’s death, it all went to shit.

  5. ZomBertholdt Fubar July 7, 2013 at 8:43 pm -      #305

    “I would just like to point out first that this is wrong. Everything on a planet is devoured before the planets move on. Oceans, mountains, minerals, the lot”
    -
    Not the actual planet though right? WDs take the entire planet.

  6. ZomBertholdt Fubar July 7, 2013 at 8:46 pm -      #306

    “2. Battle Incarnations
    All combatants are considered to be at their current incarnations, or most recent incarnation prior to death and/or incapacitation that would prevent them from engaging in battle at optimum efficiency, within their own continuities unless otherwise specified by the battle’s scenario.”
    -
    World Devastators are the very definition of ‘optimum effeciency’.

  7. GuardianAngel1911 July 7, 2013 at 8:48 pm -      #307

    well technically they had the Galaxy Gun around the same time as the World Devastators, Palpatine had just kept it hidden as a trump card….though if we go that route the Empire has Palpatine Luke and Mara…not Luke and Mara at their most powerful perhaps but still

  8. Aelfinn July 7, 2013 at 8:50 pm -      #308

    “If one survived the fall of the Empire long enough to eventually be scuttled by the New Republic, wouldn’t the Empire get at least one, by what Aelfinn said?”
    -
    From what I read, this was effectively a “rogue” one taken and scuttled by the New Republic while the Empire was still around. It didn’t exist under the Empire’s control when it fell either way.

  9. Neon Lord July 7, 2013 at 8:54 pm -      #309

    “The Kraken of the Hive Fleets are gigantic predator organisms perfectly adapted to the chill darkness of the void. Krakcn bio-ships act as scout vessels. and range far from the Hive Fleet in search of prey. Being entirely
    spaceborne, Kraken ships represent no direct threat to a planet, but wreak havoc on space stations. shuttles and military vessels.
    -
    Ramsmiter Kraken are the most common species. Each has a hook-like proboscis capable of piercing even a capital ship’s armoured hull. As the Ramsmiter sucks digestible material out of the vessel and into its digestive tract, it simultaneously vomits broods of Genestealers and
    Hormagaunts into the very heart of its stricken prey to root out any victims that might be hiding.
    -
    Almost as lethal at close quarters, a Doomripper Kraken has a maw alive with dozens of writhing. muscular tentacles. Each tentacle is incredibly strong. and the Doomripper uses them to bind itself to a prey-vessel before gnawing through the hull and feasting on its innards. Once attached to a prey, the Doomrippcr will die
    rather than let go. To survive a Doomrippcr attack is therefore a race against time. as the entrapped vessel attempts to slay the parasitic Doomripper before its own hull is crushed.
    -
    Rarest of all Kraken is the Hellblaster. This beast’s sole objective is to contact with the hull or shields of an enemy ship and discharge a massive burst of electrostatic energy. Powerful bolts arc through the hull of the prey, overloading its power systems as the raw electricity claws, crackles and spits its way across the vessel’s hull. Even if the Hellblaster is finally killed by the prey’s armament, it will have wrecked the target beyond repair.”
    -
    Tyanid Codex 5th ed, pg. 14
    -
    Also note that Tyranids are entirely space-borne, which means the only time you can attack them on the ground is when the invading. Tyranids will never be defending.
    -
    “Tyranid Hive Fleets do not travel through Warpspace. Nonetheless, the Hive Fleets’ incredible rate of advance belies the supposition that they arc bereft of a swift mode of travel. Whilst it is true that the Tyranids are constrained by sublight speeds whilst within the borders of a planetary system, they are capable of far greater
    velocity when traversing interstellar space. That they can do so is thanks to a small, almost innocuous vessel classified by the Imperium as a Narvhal.
    -
    Unlike most Tyranid vessels, a Narvhal is almost
    completely defenceless, with little in the way of bioweaponry and a comparatively thin protective carapace. A cluster of monofilament spines on the Narvhal’s bow enable it to interpret a wide range of sensory input, including an unbelievably broad spectrum of gravimetric signals. Using these senses, the Narvhal can detect planetary systems at incredible distances. It can then somehow harness that system’s own gravity, creating a compressed-space transit corridor through which the Narvhal. and nearby vessels. can cover vast distances. This method cannot be employed near to strong gravitational forces, as they drown out the more subtle traces that the Narvhal uses to navigate. As a result, a Tyranid fleet must rely on more conventional propulsion in the final approach. in some cases slowing their arrival by years. or even decades. Whilst this combined propulsion method is slower than Warp travel, it is infinitely more reliable, allowing the Tyranids to conduct their implacable encroachment across the galaxy.
    -
    The Narvhal’s manipulation of a star system’s underlying forces is not always without side effects. A prey planet will sometimes be subjected to earthquakes, solar flares, tidal waves and other natural disasters in the time between the Narvhal casting its gravitic snare and the Hive Fleet actually arriving. This only benefits the Tyranids’ efforts, guaranteeing as it does that the defenders of the target world will still be wrestling with planetary disaster when the swarm arrives in orbit.”
    -
    Tyranid Codex 5th ed pg. 19
    -
    “Hive ships
    These void-swimming behemoths act as primary
    nodes for the Hive Mind and direct the activity
    of the entire swarm. Hive ships function as
    living mother ships, bio-factory vessels breeding
    and hatching endless swarms of Tyranids to
    pursue prey across void and planet alike.
    Though most swarms will typically contain
    more than one hive ship, in some circles it is
    believed that there is still a single ship that
    maintains central control of the entire collective
    and acts to coordinate the assault, though this
    cannot be confirmed. There are also
    unsubstantiated reports that there are a very
    small number of hive ships in every swarm that
    are much more massive than the rest. Dwarfing
    even great battleships, these immeasurably vast
    creatures arrive very late in the process of
    planetary assimilation and are believed to be
    those responsible for the method by which even
    the atmosphere and oceans are consumed from
    orbit, as the final stage of the world’s
    consumption by the hive fleet. Though such a
    gargantuan organism would explain how once
    lush and fertile worlds are left barren, airless
    and sterile, there are as of yet no recorded
    sightings of such a monstrous creature.”
    -
    “Krakens, Cruisers and Droneships”
    These bio-ships range in size from comparable to the escorts of other races to massive ships
    nearly the equal in size of the hive ships they
    accompany. Ever evolving, some of these
    creatures of the void are called Kraken, named
    after the hive fleet in which they first appeared,
    identified as specialized biological entities
    which accompany hive ships in a swarm and
    defeat each new foe they encounter. Hive ships
    are known to respond to new threats by birthing
    more of these Kraken to overwhelm the
    defences of any sentient race or hapless world
    they encounter.
    -
    Though the Imperium has come to learn much
    about these creatures of the galactic ether, the
    distinction between the so-called classes of ship
    remain unclear. It has only recently, for
    instance, been ascertained (through careful
    observation of the subdual and consumption of
    Bonnis II in the Coronet Sector) that many of
    the escorts and cruisers found in typical Tyranid
    swarms are immature hive ships in various
    stages of development. It is believed that the
    Hive Mind nodes in these space-dwelling
    organisms remain dormant until they are
    mature enough to project their will across vast
    reaches of space, though when this takes place
    in a creature’s life cycle has yet to be
    determined.
    -
    Many of these beasts are developed with very
    specialised abilities that were probably evolved
    over the Tyranids’ long experience against
    various races throughout the galaxy. Found in a
    wide variety of forms, these creatures exhibit
    bizarre forms that can be quite unlike one
    another. Unlike the far larger hive ships that
    have shown a basic pattern of growth despite
    their great variety, these beasts have shown a
    diversity of forms and functions so numerous as
    to defy conventional classification.
    First described in detail by forces opposing Hive
    Fleet Kraken, these creatures demonstrate
    characteristics that are obviously evolved to
    counter specific threats, and they usually appear
    in the forefront of a swarm as it approaches insystem to break up enemy formations. It is
    believed that because some of these ships are
    evolved to fill such a specialised role, their size
    varies greatly dependant upon need. Many
    within the Imperium fear that if such mutability
    can exist within the lower orders of the Tyranid
    race, that hive ships and their gargantuan kin
    could also evolve rapidly and effectively pose an
    even more direct threat to the forces that
    oppose them.”
    -
    “Droneships
    These fast scouts are the only type of Tyranid
    bio-ship that have ever been observed operating
    independently of a hive fleet. These creatures
    quickly develop their psychic connection to the
    Hive Mind, allowing them to be sent far ahead
    of the hive ship and other synapse vessels, but
    this comes at a price. They mature quickly and
    remain slight, flimsy creatures in comparison to
    their much slower growing (and longer lived)
    brethren. Vanguard drone ships possess great
    speed and agility, but are only lightly armed.
    They appear primarily to act as scouts and travel
    light years ahead of a swarm to locate and seed
    suitable prospective planets for assimilation.
    They may well also act to illuminate enemy
    vessels for attack by later contingents of the
    invading swarm.”
    -
    Tyranid vessels primarily attack other vessels using Bio-plasma batteries, feeder tendrils that can punch ship hulls and disgorge troops, massive claws that do what you expect them to do, and Pyro-acidic batteries that do some damage on impact, but releases toxins to spread and slaughter crew, and pyro-acid that eats through hulls over time.

  10. Aelfinn July 7, 2013 at 8:55 pm -      #310

    “World Devastators are the very definition of ‘optimum effeciency’.”
    -
    “Optimum efficiency” doesn’t mean “most powerful” though. This rule is designed to prevent someone crippled in power albeit alive from having to face off in that incarnation. The Empire was not “incapacitated” by its loss of World Devastators, it’s abilities merely shifted.

  11. Neon Lord July 7, 2013 at 8:58 pm -      #311

    “SPORES
    Tyranid ships do not have turrets or shields in the
    normal sense, and instead rely on emitting a
    constantly replenished physical barrier of spore
    clouds. Every spore is a Pandora’s box of viral
    compounds, acids and even nucleonic mutagens
    capable of eating through hull armour with
    alarming speed. The combined effect of the
    millions of spores produces an ablative armour
    effect as they absorb weapons fire and ordnance
    directed at the bio-ship they surround.”
    -
    Most of the above comes from Battlefleet Gothic Armada.
    -
    Heres a fun pic to show their size.
    warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/File:Hivefleet.JPG
    -
    Basically they use close-combat in space

  12. ZomBertholdt Fubar July 7, 2013 at 9:02 pm -      #312

    ““Optimum efficiency” doesn’t mean “most powerful” though. This rule is designed to prevent someone crippled in power albeit alive from having to face off in that incarnation. The Empire was not “incapacitated” by its loss of World Devastators, it’s abilities merely shifted.”
    -
    They weren’t shifted, they were gimped, and if I recall, Palpatine fell only weeks or months after that. Effectively ending the Empire.

  13. Aelfinn July 7, 2013 at 9:07 pm -      #313

    “They weren’t shifted, they were gimped, and if I recall, Palpatine fell only weeks or months after that. Effectively ending the Empire.”
    -
    They still had the Galaxy Gun, correct? That’s effectively still combat-viable. Shifting abilities can become weaker, just not so weak that they cannot effectively fight. I also seem to remember you being in favor of post-Palpatine Empire being included in IoM vs. GE…

  14. Neon Lord July 7, 2013 at 9:09 pm -      #314

    I don’t really see the Galaxy Gun being that useful, as the only planet’s SW will be targeting are its own.

  15. GuardianAngel1911 July 7, 2013 at 9:13 pm -      #315

    @Aelfinn
    it wasn’t rogue it just wasn’t destroyed, Luke screwed with the command codes of the Devastators which is why they were lost, that one just happened to get used as a recycle bin when the Republic captured it.

  16. ZomBertholdt Fubar July 7, 2013 at 9:19 pm -      #316

    “They still had the Galaxy Gun, correct? That’s effectively still combat-viable. Shifting abilities can become weaker, just not so weak that they cannot effectively fight. I also seem to remember you being in favor of post-Palpatine Empire being included in IoM vs. GE…”
    -
    Not to the Fel Empire era, but yes, everything that was still part of the Empire that Palpatine ran, and was still a Remnant of that Empire. I didn’t say that any of it would be usable for their own match though. It said composite, so composite was used. I never said post Palpatine would be useful for anything other than their knowledge of Centerpoint. Included, yes, useful, marginally.

  17. GuardianAngel1911 July 7, 2013 at 9:23 pm -      #317

    Crimson Empire was basically useless, it’s what was made after the warlords went their separate ways, and the few people running it kept getting convinced to kill the guy above them by Nom Anor, and had an almost nonexistent military, it didn’t even last a year before it was nothing.
    Then the Imperial Remnant was formed when the other warlords got bored of shooting each other.

  18. OberHerr July 7, 2013 at 10:04 pm -      #318

    “Not the actual planet though right? WDs take the entire planet.”
    -
    Well, if they take the minerals and mountains and stuff……why can’t they take the entire planet?

  19. Aelfinn July 7, 2013 at 10:10 pm -      #319

    It’s understandable if we don’t use post-Palp Empire, but if the Empire had an effective fighting force after the loss of the WD’s, then that is Current Incarnation. Otherwise, “optimum efficiency” means Superman gets to sun-dip, Batman gets prep time, Iron Man gets the Infinity Gauntlet, Rand al’Thor gets the Choedan Kal, and Lex Luthor gets the Orange Lantern Ring.

  20. OberHerr July 7, 2013 at 10:49 pm -      #320

    Halo gets to go back to Forerunner time……..

  21. OberHerr July 7, 2013 at 10:50 pm -      #321

    IoM gets to be pre-Horus Heresy……..
    -
    Just adding ot what Aelf was saying.

  22. GuardianAngel1911 July 7, 2013 at 10:54 pm -      #322

    It had an effective fighting force for all of the two or so months it still existed(the Devastators were destroyed at the end of 10ABY the Empire fell early 11ABY but I can’t get anything more specific), which included the guy who designed the World Devastators and Galaxy gun. unless we do post Galaxy Gun, but if it’s when the Galaxy Gun is around they have the guy who built the World Devastators and could have him make more since he doesn’t die before it would be possible to start manufacturing more in canon.

  23. Aelfinn July 7, 2013 at 11:03 pm -      #323

    When was the GG destroyed compared to the end of the Empire? Currently I’m thinking it should be post-WD’s but GG still around, if the Galaxy Gun was destroyed close enough to the end of the Empire.

  24. GuardianAngel1911 July 7, 2013 at 11:11 pm -      #324

    I can’t really tell, there’s nothing more specific than “years” on the timeline I found, which is obnoxious.
    I wish it was more specific sorry

  25. Commander Cross July 7, 2013 at 11:48 pm -      #325

    On # 319

    A United Forces of Olympus without the threat of the in-fighting among its two halves at work.
    A White Council that still has Hundreds of White Council Wardens to call on rather than dozens, along with One Warden Sword each.
    A horrifying prospect to imagine I must say.

  26. Sauroposeidon July 7, 2013 at 11:49 pm -      #326

    The Empire crumbled and fell shortly after that, turning in to a myriad of splinter warlords who were reunited in to “Pallaeon’s Empire”. It eventually became Fel’s Empire. I’m not sure what Pallaeon’s empire had, but I generally assume that when the Galactic Empire is used, they mean Palpatine’s Empire, which means at the height of it’s last incarnation.. which would give them World Devastators with the Galaxy Gun either hidden or nearing completion.
    -
    Either way.. it’s not like Palpatine couldn’t just have more World Devastators made. Their usefulness compared to the Galaxy Gun was pretty low considering what he wanted to do.. but against the nids, the World Devastators become a self sustaining defense.
    -
    Really, the argument should not be whether or not they have WD’s, or whether or not Palpatine would want to use them or something else.

  27. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 12:53 pm -      #327

    Hey making Superweapons in SW is not that hard when they build a few Sun Razers
    with them instead of decades it will only take them a few years to make a powerfull Superweapon
    things i would like to state in which SW has an advantage
    SW FTL is superior than that of the Imperium’s for one the Shadow of The Hive Mind will not affect comunication or travel because SW ships do not use the Warp as a means of transport plus you can talk live across the galaxy with no problem in SW meaning that if a sistem is attacked they can send a help request in a matter of seconds and help will arrive far faster in a few hours or a day max
    Tyranid ships have no shields and are completely organic and SW ships have shields and use Energy weapons which can do massive damage to organics and the shots will cauterize the area around the ,,wound,, significantly slowing regeneration
    Highly Advanced Targeting Sistems allow SW to shoot something the size and speed of a missile with relative ease since nids dont have jammers
    and Point Defense guns have 6 megatons of firepower in 1 shot meaning that 1 shot from about 10 PD guns is as powerfull as a Nuclear Bomb
    mind that they are used to destroy missiles,torps or starfighters/bombers they are also often used against capital ships
    also you can check that an Escort class ship of the Imperium has tens of thousands of crewmen while an Imperial Star Destroyer class ship (about same size) has only a few thousand meaning that SW will not loose so many people per ship

  28. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 8, 2013 at 2:25 pm -      #328

    @Slayer
    Well, I’ll commend most of what you’re saying. Though the Empire never had access to Razers in their time that I know of.
    -
    Though In my opinion, they have something even better.
    -
    IF, and I believe they should, if the Empire possesses world devastators, then they have a monstrous weapon against the Tyranids.

  29. Xornell October 8, 2013 at 2:38 pm -      #329

    Superweapons are nice and whatever, but the Empire’s advantages lie in two areas”
    -
    FTL travel and the existence of battledroids. They can pew the Nids anywhere they appear at and use droids (Dark Troopers, surplus Clone Wars droids, ect) to deny the Nids extra biomass.

  30. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 2:54 pm -      #330

    my thoughts exactly but i think the nids can consume metal as well but probably get much less biomass
    did you know that a Standard Blaster Rifle can punch a 0.5m hole in Ferroconcrete (used in making reinforced bunkers),has a range of 10km and an ammo count of about 50-100 shots per clip (if its with plasma then about 50 if its just particle beams then about 100)?
    basicly you can slaughter large masses of nids before they even get close and when they do get close you use Vibroweapons (a class 3 Vibration cell can cut limbs off just by touching them literaly!) which are very effective at killing stuff with ease and are also very easy to make
    Lance Battalions (droids or soldiers with Energy Lances (slaughter infantry and destroy viechles) riding speeder bikes (like a 74-Z which has a light blaster cannon,can go up to 500km/h speeds and can push the speeder about 30m in the air) would be very effective)
    search Droids in Wookiepedia you can see how many types of droids there are some made for melle combat while others are just walking tanks (Protodeka,Basilisk War Droids etc.)
    SW artillery is IMMENSLY powerfull and will be able to take out even the bigest of Tyranid forms with relative ease and even their ships!!!!

  31. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 8, 2013 at 3:03 pm -      #331

    Son, you’re in a place where that knowing stuff like this is a point of pride.
    -
    In light of that, who told you a standard blaster has 5km plus range?
    -
    Nids eat metal, but I don’t think they have the ability to create more units just by feeding on metals. Because World Devastators can take any material and seemingly convert it into anything else, one could literally feed on the hive fleets themselves while pumping out ships and droids that the Tyranids will barely take any nutrition from consuming. It’s an attrition game that the Tyranids can’t win.

  32. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 3:17 pm -      #332

    DC-15A Blaster Rifle has a max range of 10km on max power meaning that the shot is also more powerfull
    it does not burn through ammo faster but it takes about 200 less shots to melt the tiabana cartridge overall 300 on max and 500 on normall power setting to melt it
    i would like to state that Void shields do not prevent anything slower than say the speed of a bullet from passing through meaning that the reason why IoM ships fell so easy to nid ships is because the void shields could not protect from ,,melle,, attacks probably vs spores but if a nid ship hits it with a tentacle or something it wont do anything to stop it
    however SW ships have both Ray and Particle shields meaning the shield can absorb the ,,melle,, attacks
    did you know that a SSDs shields can whitstand firepower the energy of a medium sized sun?

  33. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 8, 2013 at 3:26 pm -      #333

    Oh dear, so many prior discussions for you to read, so little time.
    -
    Okay, so most of what you’re saying has been brought up in other discussions. A lot has been challenged or discussed further. Reading prior threads is a good way to bring yourself up to speed on what is considered to be right around here.
    -
    For example, the Imperium of Man vs Galactic Empire fight takes quite the discussion on such matters.

  34. Xornell October 8, 2013 at 3:29 pm -      #334

    “did you know that a SSDs shields can whitstand firepower the energy of a medium sized sun?”
    -
    Do recall reading this somewhere. I also recall reading that an ISD uses more energy than a planet (thoughout its lifetime) in a single hyperspace jump.

  35. Aelfinn October 8, 2013 at 3:34 pm -      #335

    “did you know that a SSDs shields can whitstand firepower the energy of a medium sized sun?”
    -
    Hold me back, G-B! Hold me back!
    -
    lol, welcome to the site, Slayer. The UNSC Infinity vs something-or-other is another place to look into as well. A discussion took place there, and I’m sure there are some on Star Trek vs. Star Wars as well.

  36. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 3:35 pm -      #336

    “Although the command tower stood arrogantly exposed above the Executor’s superstructure, the ship’s shielding system, which matched the power output of a medium star, kept it sufficiently protected from attack.”
    sorry i said it a little wrong but i was right about the star thing

  37. ZomBlur October 8, 2013 at 3:36 pm -      #337

    Ya’ll fuckers put a GE match on recent comments on one of the days I am on the site and don’t actually give me something to debate!?!?

  38. ZomBlur October 8, 2013 at 3:38 pm -      #338

    Infinity vs Malevolence is the match. It, and IoM vs GE are good reading material.

  39. Aelfinn October 8, 2013 at 3:38 pm -      #339

    Classic ZomB.
    -
    Well, wasn’t this pretty much “Can the World Devastators survive the Trillions upon Quadrillions of Tyranids?”

  40. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 8, 2013 at 3:40 pm -      #340

    Breathe, Ael, just breathe and count to ten. In mandarin Chinese.
    -
    @Slayer
    What Aelfinn is getting at is that with many franchises, ESPECIALLY Star Wars, there are various levels of canonicity. One book might say Turbolasers have yields of 200 Gigatons per shot, while a video game might barely scrape together a few dozen megatons.
    -
    Therefore, any “Feat” like that has to be carefully examined to see if it really fits together with the rest of the universe to it’s highest canon degree.
    -
    As to the shields withstanding a Star, that may be one of such feats that is in less than high standing after our observations.
    -
    This isn’t a scolding or anything like that, but every site has it’s paradigms, and getting yourself acquainted with ours will make participation in debates a whole lot easier.

  41. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 3:45 pm -      #341

    i dont have the time to check out all of thouse Forums
    just going to say flat out Star Trek is weak its got weak weapons and weak shields just thouse Q guys or whatever they are
    the Infinity seems to handle itsself well with the Shields but ive seen its armament and its just a few MAGs and other small turrets and missiles which are really weak weapons if its going vs a SSD its not going to do much
    Star Wars vs Imperium is clear that SW wins due to larger numbers,better FTL and comunication and flat out better Tech
    SW vs Orks would be nice but i think SW wins agin due to Biological weapons and superior ships
    SW vs Eldar and Tau its clear that neither of them have the numbers
    SW vs Necrons (unawoken) have a good chance of taking em out before they wake up
    SW vs Chaos im beting on Chaos
    and im here for Tyranids vs Star Wars

  42. ZomBlur October 8, 2013 at 3:48 pm -      #342

    I should point out, that if you have sufficient evidence of your claims we are not so stuck to our precedents that we won’t change them.
    -
    Anyways, back to my hole to wait for the next Darth Vader vs Magneto.

  43. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 3:48 pm -      #343

    well Infinity vs Malevolance the Malevolance wins just due to the Ion cannons
    just be happy its not its sister ship the Devastation that is powered by Force Crystals….

  44. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 3:51 pm -      #344

    well in a game tnings are A LOT diffrent for obvious reasons and the things that contradict reality are called Game Mechanics if im not mistaken :P
    do you guys believe im just 14 :D

  45. Aelfinn October 8, 2013 at 4:09 pm -      #345

    “just going to say flat out Star Trek is weak its got weak weapons and weak shields ”
    -
    Glutinous, I don’t know what I’m going to do!
    -
    “do you guys believe im just 14 ”
    -
    Let’s just say it wasn’t a surprise.
    -
    “well in a game tnings are A LOT diffrent for obvious reasons and the things that contradict reality are called Game Mechanics if im not mistaken”
    -
    Well, G-B was merely giving an example. He wanted you to know that we can encounter many contradictions within the SW canon, and that finding the “correct”/most appropriate one can be a difficult process.

  46. Xornell October 8, 2013 at 4:10 pm -      #346

    “just going to say flat out Star Trek is weak its got weak weapons and weak shields just thouse Q guys or whatever they are”
    -
    … Fuck. I believe you’ve just wandered into a minefield, newperson.
    -
    “Tyranids vs Star Wars”
    -
    Galactic Empire, not Star Wars.
    -
    “do you guys believe im just 14″
    -
    Yes xD Yes I do.

  47. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 8, 2013 at 4:17 pm -      #347

    But, take heart lad. You aren’t the youngest person we’ve had with us. And far less awkward.
    -
    As for the Star Trek bit, though it can seem that way at first, the setting has quite a bit more going for it than you realize. This is a plus of being in these matches, you get to learn things you’d have never known otherwise.
    -
    I’ve been introduced to franchises I really enjoy through this site, and had my entire viewpoint on certain universes changed after learning more about them.

  48. Xornell October 8, 2013 at 4:20 pm -      #348

    “But, take heart lad. You aren’t the youngest person we’ve had with us. And far less awkward.”
    -
    I like this reference because I know who you’re talking about.
    -
    “and had my entire viewpoint on certain universes changed after learning more about them.”
    -
    Nothing here, yet. I think cuz I’m a stubborn dick.

  49. Aelfinn October 8, 2013 at 4:27 pm -      #349

    “I think cuz I’m a stubborn dick.”
    -
    At least you aren’t a hard-headed one!
    -
    “I like this reference because I know who you’re talking about.”
    -
    I think we all do, lol.

  50. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 4:28 pm -      #350

    im 14 im not retarded you know
    Star Trek is just not meant for war
    the Federation is completely oposed to it
    their weapons and shields are just plain weak compared to something like Star Wars
    and their ships are all small
    a war against something like the GE would last mere months
    i got what G-B meant

  51. Xornell October 8, 2013 at 4:33 pm -      #351

    “At least you aren’t a hard-headed one!”
    -
    Aha, I have seen what you’ve done there! Well played!
    -
    “im 14 im not retarded you know”
    -
    Nobody said ya were, mate.
    -
    “their weapons and shields are just plain weak compared to something like Star Wars”
    -
    Ehhh this is debatable. I’d personally agree but there are those here who would not…
    -
    “and their ships are all small”
    -
    Again, debatable. Borg cubes are fucking huge.

  52. Aelfinn October 8, 2013 at 4:34 pm -      #352

    My 800 Petaton calc would like to have a word with you, let alone Kirk’s 20 Petaton bomb.
    -
    But that’s neither here nor there.

  53. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 8, 2013 at 4:35 pm -      #353

    Plus, V’ger, being something like 70km long.

  54. slayer1968 October 8, 2013 at 4:44 pm -      #354

    ”Again, debatable. Borg cubes are fucking huge.”’
    and pretty much just them and they are not that hard to take out i mean the weak Federation ships did it
    “My 800 Petaton calc would like to have a word with you, let alone Kirk’s 20 Petaton bomb.”
    where are thease weapons? you know what dont answer we are wayy off the main topic of GE vs Nids which is why i came here
    i want to discuss Space battles

  55. Sauroposeidon October 8, 2013 at 4:49 pm -      #355

    There’s a thread for this shit. This is not that thread.

  56. ZomBlur October 8, 2013 at 5:06 pm -      #356

    Echoing Sauro’s sentiments.

  57. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 8, 2013 at 5:08 pm -      #357

    Well, I think it was established that due to deflector shields, Tyranid attacks are a whole lot less effective.
    -
    Turbolasers put out some good power, and due to taking far less damage than the average IoM vessel, they do a whole lot better in space engagements.
    -
    World Devastators eat many of the smaller Nid bioships outright, and tear apart many others, and constantly pump out new ships to fight with.
    -
    If WDs aren’t around, but GE has the Galaxy guns, they start sniping the Hive ships, and then move in with the navy to mop up the rest.
    -
    If they can really just hold the Tyranids from moving, they can do sufficient resource denial to begin wearing down their numbers. And since Shadow of the Warp does nothing, the GE is free to move about and resupply as they need.

  58. slayer1968 October 9, 2013 at 9:30 am -      #358

    “There’s a thread for this shit. This is not that thread.”
    i meant Space Battle with Tyranids

  59. Namer October 9, 2013 at 9:33 am -      #359

    Sauro meant your comments about ST being weak. The Star Trek vs Star Wars is 3rd on the popular posts.

  60. slayer1968 October 9, 2013 at 9:57 am -      #360

    well its not like he made it very clear

  61. slayer1968 October 11, 2013 at 1:27 pm -      #361

    want to talk about Ground Combat?

  62. Sauroposeidon October 11, 2013 at 5:04 pm -      #362

    Sure. The Tyranids somehow make landfall. WD’s eat the planet out from underneath them. >_> I thought this was settled as a fairly heavy handed win for the GE.

  63. slayer1968 October 11, 2013 at 5:20 pm -      #363

    i meant ground battles with strafeing runs,blaster cannons,tanks etc.

  64. itcheyness October 11, 2013 at 5:36 pm -      #364

    “i meant ground battles with strafeing runs,blaster cannons,tanks etc.”
    -
    Why would the Empire even want to do that?

  65. Sauroposeidon October 11, 2013 at 7:32 pm -      #365

    World Devastators ARE ground weapons. They fight both in space and in atmosphere.
    -
    images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120408183640/starwars/images/0/07/World_Devastators.jpg

  66. Xornell October 11, 2013 at 8:07 pm -      #366

    “Why would the Empire even want to do that?”
    -
    Pretty much this. I mean I guess they could try to kick the Tyranids in the balls on land if they slow down the invasion enough, but overall once a hivefleet enters a system just pew the system (or the planet they’re consuming).
    -
    “World Devastators ARE ground weapons. They fight both in space and in atmosphere.”
    -
    Also this. If they do feel like actually fighting the Nids, spamming World Devastators and Battle Droids would be the way to go. Considering they’re basically mechanical Tyranids… In 40k, when Nids lose a battle, they nom the dead, get more biomass, and attack with twice the numbers they originally had. Lather rinse repeat. Here, the enemy is nomming their dead, spitting out soldiers, and should they somehow be able to take one down, they can’t use it to make more Nids. World Devastators are really the perfect answer to Tyranids. Given prep time, they solo.

  67. Sauroposeidon October 11, 2013 at 8:20 pm -      #367

    “Given prep time, they solo.”
    -
    Which with how slow Nids are, they will always have.

  68. Xornell October 11, 2013 at 8:25 pm -      #368

    “Which with how slow Nids are, they will always have.”
    -
    Yeah actually I guess that’s true. One Imperial Sensors located their movement they could really just send WD’s to whatever system they were heading to and spend entire months nomming celestial bodies before the Nids get there. Also, could they technically troll the Nid fleet mid-flight with the galaxy gun?

  69. Sauroposeidon October 11, 2013 at 8:28 pm -      #369

    “Also, could they technically troll the Nid fleet mid-flight with the galaxy gun?”
    -
    Yes.

  70. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 11, 2013 at 8:45 pm -      #370

    Once again my shameless WD fanning, but I have to say that they were just about the best thing to come out of their Superweapons R\D team. Which is why I’m boggled that they let the things fade away. Even that single left over world devastator, that was later scuttled, if it had remained when the Yuuzhan-Vong invaded, the course of the war would have been completely different.

  71. Xornell October 11, 2013 at 9:08 pm -      #371

    “Which is why I’m boggled that they let the things fade away.”
    -
    It’s Star Wars. Nothing that happens plot-wise makes sense lol. Don’t get me wrong, I love Star Wars, but making two Death Stars? And inviting the kid strong in the force who fucked up your first one to the incomplete Death Star to confront his estranged father who you basically tricked into killing the love of his life and has been trying to overthrow you ever since is just so much wat I can’t believe it. But I digress. The point is there are a plethora of Superweapons that are not only more effective than the Death Star, but are also cheaper and easier to make/defend.

  72. Commander Farsight October 11, 2013 at 9:13 pm -      #372

    @Xornell
    “there are a plethora of Superweapons that are not only more effective than the Death Star, but are also cheaper and easier to make/defend.”
    -
    None made of as much pure Awesome though, lol.

  73. Xornell October 11, 2013 at 9:16 pm -      #373

    “None made of as much pure Awesome though, lol.”
    -
    Yeah I guess that’s true. There’s also the fact that as soon as your planet gets a second moon every person simultaneously shits themselves.

  74. Neon Lord October 12, 2013 at 1:23 am -      #374

    I still don’t really see whats so great about World Devastators, although this is probably because I don’t know their full capabilities yet.
    -
    How fast can they consume a planet? Even with a maw of their size, it is nothing compared to the amount of mass a planet has. It’s like using a shovel to dig up all the sand in a beach.
    -
    How big are they? If
    warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/File:Hivefleet.JPG
    the claw ships in this picture are larger than a WD, they can easily just use the momentum of being dragged in to scythe straight through the entire World Devastator.
    -
    How fast is a WD able to turn around? How can they effectively fight in space if their only method of attack is in the maw’s direction? If a Nid ship were to come around from the side, rear, or top, the World Devastator will be vulnerable to getting smashed open.
    -
    images.wikia.com/starwars/images/0/07/World_Devastators.jpg
    This image shows that the World Devastator hasn’t even begun to consume anything since it hasn’t made direct contact with the surface yet. It can be inferred that the WD relies on things going directly into the foundry itself via the tractor beam before it can consume them, as it seemingly does not have enough power to suck in anything at all from the ground (if the tractor beam was active, there would at least be a couple of the city buildings flying in, or a stream of loost top soil rising up into it)
    -
    If Tyranid ships can move faster than a WD, they can just sacrifice a single ship to stall the World Devastator whilst several other massive claw-ships hit it from other angles.
    -
    How fast can it produce stuff like fighters, droids, and cruisers?
    -
    “Rarest of all Kraken is the Hellblaster. This beast’s sole objective is to contact with the hull or shields of an enemy ship and discharge a massive burst of electrostatic energy. Powerful bolts arc through the hull of the prey, overloading its power systems as the raw electricity claws, crackles and spits its way across the vessel’s hull. Even if the Hellblaster is finally killed by the prey’s armament, it will have wrecked the target beyond repair.”
    Tyanid Codex 5th ed, pg. 14″
    -
    I am going to assume the WD has shields, so if a Hellblaster comes in contact with it, it becomes a useless lump of metal due to the Nid ship’s EMP-like effect.

  75. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 12, 2013 at 2:50 am -      #375

    World Devastator mouths are large enough to permit a Star Destroyer. We don’t know precisely how quickly a World Devastator works, but going off of figures for an inferior predecessor unit known as the Leviathan, a Devastator can produce a Star Destroyer in approx three days. I’d like to assert higher efficiency, but such is difficult to ascertain.
    -
    If a Tyranid tendril takes approximately 100 days to consume a planet, assuming only the original Silencer line exists with the proper quantity of material to feed on, in that time there is potentially 231 new star destroyers built. Consider those WDs on the target planet, harrying the Tyranids with constantly replenishing forces, also depleting resources otherwise usable by the nids. If the tyranids win that engagement, they will leave with far less acquired biomass than they would otherwise. And imagine this happening on other worlds way ahead of the Tyranids, where the World Devastators have had YEARS to prepare and multiply, and that’s without the rest of the GE’s resources.
    -
    Because deflectors block many of the Tyranid space weapons, they’ll have a higher kill to death ratio than in typical IoM engagements.

  76. slayer1968 October 12, 2013 at 5:53 am -      #376

    wow i just wanted to talk about good old fashioned ground war but what the hell :P
    i dont know much about the WDs just that what is mostly said above and taht they are smart enough to upgrade themselves acording to the situation
    so in my mind it goes like WD is attacked by many smaller nid ships and thus decides to build more Point Defense Guns and starts pumping out more fighters to counter them

  77. slayer1968 October 12, 2013 at 5:55 am -      #377

    i think they can even make other WDs when they have sufficient resources

  78. slayer1968 October 12, 2013 at 5:56 am -      #378

    ”I am going to assume the WD has shields, so if a Hellblaster comes in contact with it, it becomes a useless lump of metal due to the Nid ship’s EMP-like effect.”
    i think the purpose of Ionization Shield Generators is to prevent stuff like that

  79. Neon Lord October 12, 2013 at 7:38 pm -      #379

    “If a Tyranid tendril takes approximately 100 days to consume a planet, assuming only the original Silencer line exists with the proper quantity of material to feed on, in that time there is potentially 231 new star destroyers built. Consider those WDs on the target planet, harrying the Tyranids with constantly replenishing forces, also depleting resources otherwise usable by the nids. If the tyranids win that engagement, they will leave with far less acquired biomass than they would otherwise. And imagine this happening on other worlds way ahead of the Tyranids, where the World Devastators have had YEARS to prepare and multiply, and that’s without the rest of the GE’s resources.”
    -
    Your strategy assumes that the Tyranids will instantaneously try and consume the planet, which they only do after virtually all resistance has been crushed. While they do prepare the planet for consumption early on through tyranno-forming native species, they will focus on attacking any sources of resistance first. Seeing as WDs will be a primary threat, they will inevitably be targeted with greater amount of forces. As I outlined before, they are vulnerable to attack from every direction but the maw.
    -
    WDs also seem to need metals as their primary resource. Unless they actively try and suck up every planet and living they find, they will not be denying too much biomass (and if it is destroyed, all of it can be reclaimed).
    -
    A major point that has seemingly been forgotten is that Tyranids adapt. Blaster weaponry seems fairly uniform across the Star Wars verse, and Tyranids have been known to adapt to become nearly immune to types of weaponry used against it. During the assault on the Tau Empire by Hive Fleet Gorgon, Tyranid creatures became virtually invincible to pulse weapons. This same technique could be applied so that all Tyranid creatures (and ships) become resistant to blaster weapons, making even ship weapons such as Turbolasers worthless. It does not matter how many Star Destroyers you have if they cannot hurt anything.
    -
    Of course, the time for this adaptation to take place means that the Tyranids will probably incur heavy losses in their first waves of invasion, but second and further waves will become successfully harder to repel.
    -
    I probably missed the deflector thing, so is it alright if you explain again how they block Tyranid space attacks?

  80. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 12, 2013 at 7:54 pm -      #380

    @Neon
    World Devastators are able to consume matter and use their Molecular Furnace to change it into whatever the World Devastator requires. So dirt, metal, water, biomatter–all of it can be consumed and converted.
    -
    And if the Tyranids will not try to consume the planet until resistance is gone, not only will they be fighting without resource input to replenish their numbers, as they fight, the World Devastators will be consuming more and more mass the longer the fight stretches on, meaning that-if-the Tyranids eventually win, they’ll still leave with considerably less than they would have intended, leaving them even less prepared for the next fight, which will consist of almost the exact same thing.
    -
    The Tyranids haven’t become immune to the IoM’s starship cannons yet. Like the Borg, I believe the Nids have an adaptation limit, and enough firepower is unable to be immunized against.
    -
    Deflector shields create a solid barrier. Unlike Voids, slow moving objects do not pass through. Therefore acid attacks and spines and claws will either be repelled or do far less damage.

  81. Xornell October 12, 2013 at 8:42 pm -      #381

    “Your strategy assumes that the Tyranids will instantaneously try and consume the planet, which they only do after virtually all resistance has been crushed.”
    -
    I think he was just saying the overall time it takes, not necessarily that they’d eat the planet while fighting. But you bring up a good point. Considering WD’s are self replicating war-factories, they can replace themselves with whatever fallen Nids they find, along with chunks of the planet. It’s a war of attrition, and they simply have much more resources than the Nids.
    -
    ” Seeing as WDs will be a primary threat, they will inevitably be targeted with greater amount of forces. As I outlined before, they are vulnerable to attack from every direction but the maw.”
    -
    They do have their own weapons/shield emplacements. Not to mention a constantly replenishing force of droids/droid ships. Also not to mention the GE’s regular forces.
    -
    “WDs also seem to need metals as their primary resource.”
    -
    That’s the glory of the molecular furnace. It doesn’t matter what they suck up, it all becomes rearranged microscopically to become whatever the WD needs.
    -
    “Unless they actively try and suck up every planet and living they find, they will not be denying too much biomass (and if it is destroyed, all of it can be reclaimed).”
    -
    Not necessarily. While Nids can only eat biomass, WD’s can eat biomass, plus the actual mineral mass of the planet. Once transformed into durasteel or something, exactly how can the Nids reclaim that biomass?
    -
    “This same technique could be applied so that all Tyranid creatures (and ships) become resistant to blaster weapons, making even ship weapons such as Turbolasers worthless.”
    -
    I know this isn’t 100% relevant, but just because a being evolved to become immune to a certain kind of injury, doesn’t mean more of that kind of injury won’t kill it. Take Doomsday for example. Much better at evolving immunities than the Nids, but given a powerful enough attack, really anything can put him down. There’s also the fact that they haven’t become immune to Lasguns and Bolters.
    -
    “Of course, the time for this adaptation to take place means that the Tyranids will probably incur heavy losses in their first waves of invasion, but second and further waves will become successfully harder to repel.”
    -
    I’m not entirely sure about this. But then again even if they are a problem, there can come a point where the GE starts nuking systems where incursion become a problem.
    -
    Also GB’s middle paragraph is a better-worded argument than mine here, but it’s what I intended lol. Sorry for the lackluster performance xD

  82. Neon Lord October 12, 2013 at 9:39 pm -      #382

    “World Devastators are able to consume matter and use their Molecular Furnace to change it into whatever the World Devastator requires. So dirt, metal, water, biomatter–all of it can be consumed and converted.”
    -
    Right, I concede the point then.
    -
    “And if the Tyranids will not try to consume the planet until resistance is gone, not only will they be fighting without resource input to replenish their numbers, as they fight, the World Devastators will be consuming more and more mass the longer the fight stretches on, meaning that-if-the Tyranids eventually win, they’ll still leave with considerably less than they would have intended, leaving them even less prepared for the next fight, which will consist of almost the exact same thing.”
    -
    Tyranids have enough starting input biomatter to last a major campaign. Every single Tyranid incursion so far into 40k didn’t run out of biomass before their victory or defeat occurred.
    -
    Whilst Tyranids may lose biomatter on world with WDs, they can always take more from un-inhabited worlds that have native fauna or natural resources (worlds similar to Endor, or Hoth). GE isn’t competent enough or does it have the resources to cover every single system in the galaxy.
    -
    “The Tyranids haven’t become immune to the IoM’s starship cannons yet. Like the Borg, I believe the Nids have an adaptation limit, and enough firepower is unable to be immunized against.”
    -
    Imperial cannons use brute force projectiles to destroy stuff. The only way to adapt to this is put extra armour on, which has its own problems with weight, bulk, etc. On the other had, Blasters are energy-based weapons that could just need a specific time of barrier to deflect all of their power (specialised slime coating, or something like that).
    -
    If the claw-ships are big enough to envelop the whole ship and shield (which they probably are), and crush it in between, the shield won’t make a difference. Hellblasters can also EMP the shield to non-function.
    -
    “They do have their own weapons/shield emplacements. Not to mention a constantly replenishing force of droids/droid ships. Also not to mention the GE’s regular forces.”
    -
    All of which can be overwhelmed by the Nids with enough numbers.
    -
    “Not necessarily. While Nids can only eat biomass, WD’s can eat biomass, plus the actual mineral mass of the planet. Once transformed into durasteel or something, exactly how can the Nids reclaim that biomass?”
    -
    Nids actually also do take as much mineral matter as they can, as well as all water and gases on the world. Still worse than the WD though.
    -
    “I know this isn’t 100% relevant, but just because a being evolved to become immune to a certain kind of injury, doesn’t mean more of that kind of injury won’t kill it. Take Doomsday for example. Much better at evolving immunities than the Nids, but given a powerful enough attack, really anything can put him down. There’s also the fact that they haven’t become immune to Lasguns and Bolters.”
    -
    I realise that, but it is reasonable to assume Tyranid ground creatures like gaunts and gants can become immune to regular blasters, larger creatures to Blaster cannons, Tyranid ships to Turbolasers, etc. They only need to tank enough to launch their own attack.
    -
    I do vaguely recall some Tyranids becoming immune to Las-weapons in the past. For Bolters, same case as the Imperial ship cannons above.
    -
    And another point: Tyranid Vanguard organisms. Genestealer cults can tip the balance of many battles to the Tyranids, especially with the already volatile nature of GE politics. If Genestealer-controlled humans can infiltrate enough places, the uprising can basically throw everything into disarray (and possibly snag some GE weapons along the way).
    -
    “I’m not entirely sure about this. But then again even if they are a problem, there can come a point where the GE starts nuking systems where incursion become a problem.”
    -
    Whilst a valid tactic, you start losing a lot when systems like the Kuat Drive Yards are lost.

  83. Xornell October 13, 2013 at 2:24 am -      #383

    “Tyranids have enough starting input biomatter to last a major campaign. Every single Tyranid incursion so far into 40k didn’t run out of biomass before their victory or defeat occurred.”
    -
    Granted, this is also because they were able to reclaim whatever losses were had, along with whatever biological defenders they were able to nom. We’re saying that World Devastators would at the very least always make them go negative in numbers. Unable to replenish their forces, the incursion would very likely be stopped in the first system they attacked.
    -
    “Whilst Tyranids may lose biomatter on world with WDs, they can always take more from un-inhabited worlds that have native fauna or natural resources (worlds similar to Endor, or Hoth). ”
    -
    Endor, perhaps. Hoth? What is there to take? A handful of Wampas. Any world worth inhabiting is probably under some form of Imperial rule/protection. Alternatively if they are not a part of the Galactic Empire and are worthless to the GE, they can also pew the planet in a number of ways, also eliminating huge swaths of Tyranids. Finally, travelling in between worlds would take the Nids months at the very least. After a defeat and while being harassed by Imperial ships/superweapons detracting from the first assault to go to a different world would be suicide for the swarm.
    -
    “On the other had, Blasters are energy-based weapons that could just need a specific time of barrier to deflect all of their power (specialised slime coating, or something like that).”
    -
    Have they ever done this with lasguns to any effect? Also Blasters are definitely energy weapons, but it’s my understanding they’re not just hot plasma or something. There’s also more powerful blaster variants and laser cannons (scaled down turbolasers). The only reason these more powerful weapons aren’t a commonplace in Star Wars is the fact that they’re overkill.
    -
    “If the claw-ships are big enough to envelop the whole ship and shield (which they probably are), and crush it in between, the shield won’t make a difference.”
    -
    WD shields are particularly potent. I recall one tanking volleys of turbolaser fire? I’m betting the shields can stand up to physical force, even if it is quite powerful. Also keep in mind that if these “jaws” were to envelop the WD, it’d literally start tearing apart the Nid ship eating it.
    -
    “Hellblasters can also EMP the shield to non-function.”
    -
    I think Ion weapons are the only thing that shorts out shielding in SW. If Hellblasters use ionized plasma or something like that then you may be right.. Also can I get some info on these? I did a quick search and all I found was a ground weapon for WH Fantasy.
    -
    “I realise that, but it is reasonable to assume Tyranid ground creatures like gaunts and gants can become immune to regular blasters, larger creatures to Blaster cannons, Tyranid ships to Turbolasers, etc.”
    -
    Is it, though? Maybe resistant, but completely immune is stretching it.
    -
    ” They only need to tank enough to launch their own attack.”
    -
    Even if they develop some resistance to GE weapons there’s still quite a lot to go around, especially factoring in Battledroids and World Devastators. Also there’s mass drivers and vibroknives and the like so the GE doesn’t rely entirely on energy weapons.
    -
    “And another point: Tyranid Vanguard organisms. Genestealer cults can tip the balance of many battles to the Tyranids, especially with the already volatile nature of GE politics”
    -
    Are Genestealers literally genetically identical to their host organism? Because the basic sensors on ships should be able to detect different life anyway. There’s also the Force and it’s precog abilities and the fact that the Emperor enjoys employing spies. IIRC GE politics aren’t really that volatile… It’s pretty much what the Emperor says, goes.
    -
    “Whilst a valid tactic, you start losing a lot when systems like the Kuat Drive Yards are lost.”
    -
    Kuat Drive Yards is part of the core of the galaxy, meaning it’d be the last thing to get hit by the Nids. In any case, if an outer system is lost it stops the Tyranid invasion. By the time another swarm is detected you could have an exponentially growing, self-replicating fleet of World Devastators waiting for the next fleet to arrive. There’s also the fact that the GE could troll the shit out of Hive fleets en-route with their superweapons, or even just Hyperspace some ships in, pew the Nids a bit, and Hyperspace out.
    -
    -
    The only two reasons the IoM gets seriously fucked over by the Nids are:
    A. They have a 6-pronged war to fight, not including dissent on the homefront and magic space douchebags sending swarms of demons at them every once and a while.
    AND
    B. Nids fuck with the Warp, which means IoM fleets usually receive distress calls very late and can’t FTL there in time to make a difference.
    -
    -
    The GE is basically the IoM with much better FTL, superior production, no massive intergalactic war to fight, and planetbusters up the whazoo. The Nids can’t really compete here.

  84. slayer1968 October 13, 2013 at 6:32 am -      #384

    ”Imperial cannons use brute force projectiles to destroy stuff. The only way to adapt to this is put extra armour on, which has its own problems with weight, bulk, etc. On the other had, Blasters are energy-based weapons that could just need a specific time of barrier to deflect all of their power (specialised slime coating, or something like that)”
    im not sure that is possible blasters also pack a significant amount of kinetic power behind the blaster bolts and adding slime and stuff like that wont make it immune maybe just a little bit more resistant you have to remember that blasters fire charged particle beams not simple lasers meaning the shots are also much more powerfull than a Lasgun shot
    ”All of which can be overwhelmed by the Nids with enough numbers.”‘
    not really as i said if the WD is starting to get overrun it can just modify itsself with more weapons to counter them or just build diffrent units for the same purpose
    ”Whilst a valid tactic, you start losing a lot when systems like the Kuat Drive Yards are lost.”
    indeed but it would not matter much when they start making other sistems like Imperial Forge Worlds then it woud not be such a massive loss
    also something to be noted is that many planets in SW have planetary shields which can prevent things like Mysetic Spores from landing on the planet with no problem while the nid ships get blasted by Orbital Defenses
    normally a planet is defended like this
    1.Massive mine fields with diffrent types of mines.
    2.Orbital stations,sentry guns and a Fleet.
    3.The planetary shield from under which orbital guns would be fireing at the ships in orbit.
    4.Smaller AA defenses that do not have the range to shoot to orbit.
    and they can have other custom stuff that they might have added

  85. slayer1968 October 13, 2013 at 11:52 am -      #385

    ”I think Ion weapons are the only thing that shorts out shielding in SW. If Hellblasters use ionized plasma or something like that then you may be right.. Also can I get some info on these? I did a quick search and all I found was a ground weapon for WH Fantasy.”
    -
    well if you have an Ionization shield generator you can effectively counter ion cannons or at least slow down their effects

  86. Sauroposeidon October 13, 2013 at 1:15 pm -      #386

    “Whilst Tyranids may lose biomatter on world with WDs, they can always take more from un-inhabited worlds that have native fauna or natural resources (worlds similar to Endor, or Hoth). GE isn’t competent enough or does it have the resources to cover every single system in the galaxy.”
    -
    How do they even get to these worlds? It’s not like the Empire isn’t going to see their fleet trying to tentacle rape some corner of the galaxy considering their biomass. Both Hoth and Endor are also like.. extremely shitty worlds to try and take over too. Even if they could survive on Hoth, there’s so little biomass there..
    -
    On top of this. Let’s say they somehow nab an important world from under the nose of the Empire.. like Naboo.. A single shot from the Galaxy Gun solves that problem very quickly.
    -
    “Imperial cannons use brute force projectiles to destroy stuff. The only way to adapt to this is put extra armour on, which has its own problems with weight, bulk, etc. On the other had, Blasters are energy-based weapons that could just need a specific time of barrier to deflect all of their power (specialised slime coating, or something like that).”
    -
    All weapons use some kind of energy. Blasters are, as near as I can tell, near plasma state gases. They impart an enormous amount of thermal energy on impact, usually demolecularizing and turning to ash whatever they hit. The more gas uses, the more potent the attack. Disintegrators are just more potent blasters that expel more gas with each shot fired. The only way to defend against this is, similarly, more armor or shields.
    -
    “If the claw-ships are big enough to envelop the whole ship and shield (which they probably are), and crush it in between, the shield won’t make a difference. Hellblasters can also EMP the shield to non-function.”
    -
    What stops the claw ship from being torn to shreds by the tractors beams on WD’s? They’d need to have more mass than their target to be able to get past the WD tractor beams.
    -
    “All of which can be overwhelmed by the Nids with enough numbers.”
    -
    The point is they sort of don’t get to do that. They’re too slow, with no means of replenishing numbers, against an ever growing enemy.
    -
    “I realise that, but it is reasonable to assume Tyranid ground creatures like gaunts and gants can become immune to regular blasters, larger creatures to Blaster cannons, Tyranid ships to Turbolasers, etc. They only need to tank enough to launch their own attack.”
    -
    Your arguing against storm trooper E-11 carbines like Disintegrators and Plasma Assault Cannons don’t exist. There is, to my knowledge, no way to tank a Thermal Detonator as well. The standard weapons you see being used are used because it’s costly and slow and sometimes dangerous to use the defenses on infantry that would stop them… but one step up and you have automated droid walkers that can grapple star fighters out of the sky, absorb all energy attacks, and fire out blasts equal to a capital ship. You have power armor that could survive the destruction of entire planets armed with guns that rapid fire star hot blasts. It gets really nasty on the ground really fast the moment Star Wars HAS to up it’s A-Game. Not that either of the mentioned weapons stand a chance against the WD’s.. or that a single Galaxy Gun shot wouldn’t completely halt the ‘nid advance on a world.
    -
    “And another point: Tyranid Vanguard organisms. Genestealer cults can tip the balance of many battles to the Tyranids, especially with the already volatile nature of GE politics. If Genestealer-controlled humans can infiltrate enough places, the uprising can basically throw everything into disarray (and possibly snag some GE weapons along the way).”
    -
    If this were the fractured Empire with out Palpatine, yes. If this is the Empire run by Palpatine, who could just use the force to kill a rogue Moff over a video conference.. No.
    -
    “Whilst a valid tactic, you start losing a lot when systems like the Kuat Drive Yards are lost”
    -
    I don’t see the ‘nids ever even getting to Kuat.

  87. slayer1968 October 14, 2013 at 6:24 am -      #387

    ”Disintegrators are just more potent blasters that expel more gas with each shot fired. The only way to defend against this is, similarly, more armor or shields.”
    -
    its Disruptors not Desintegrators and they are really a sort of copy paste of Necron gauss weapons they pass through shields and can desintegrate someone with just 1 shot even if he is wearing heavy armour
    the simple Disrupter pistol can punch through starship hulls and they can be set to blow up making a large and very devastating Boom

  88. slayer1968 October 14, 2013 at 3:28 pm -      #388

    i know this is not the place for this but i think its possible for SW to defeat Chaos if they kill every living thing in the Mily Way because the Chaos Gods feed of the emotions of living beings and if they kill everything would that not mean the Chaos gods would just i dont know stop existing?

  89. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 14, 2013 at 3:35 pm -      #389

    Not exactly. The Warp gods don’t work exactly like that. It would weaken them greatly, maybe even cripplingly, but it wouldn’t get rid of them. The Warp, and by extension them, is one of those things that you can’t really ever completely get rid of apparently. Not even when the Necrons wiped the galaxy out for almost the entire part did it get rid of the gods.
    -
    But unless the SW side’s emotions aren’t able to fuel the gods, it will do just that, all of the anger and war and destruction in Star Wars will feed them too. If not, then they’d probably lose the power and agents required to have any meaningful effect on the material universe.

  90. slayer1968 October 14, 2013 at 3:45 pm -      #390

    so its a 50/50 that they can effectively stop Chaos from wageing war on them

  91. Xornell October 14, 2013 at 6:07 pm -      #391

    Actually killing most of the things in 40k would make the gods jizz themselves in joy. But since Star Wars is a bit more stable in terms of murder (shit’s not going on every day) they’d get pretty annoyed right after all the wonderful murdering was done.

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