CTF: Kratos, Master Chief, Gordon Freeman, Arbiter Vs Darth Vader, Samus, Link & General Grievous

Capture the Flag: Kratos, Master Chief, Arbiter and Gordon Freeman Vs Darth Vader, Samus, Link and General Grievous

Location: Mines of Moria
Race to 3
Both Teams have 2 Warthogs, 2 Republic Gunships, and 1 Ghost
Also, a wandering Barlog amongst them.

Which team would win?

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179 Comments on "CTF: Kratos, Master Chief, Gordon Freeman, Arbiter Vs Darth Vader, Samus, Link & General Grievous"

  1. x on March 21, 2009 at 1:36 am -      #1

    The team with the god wins.

  2. hellatus March 21, 2009 at 3:40 am -      #2

    we probably all know that vader can just use force to get the flag first

  3. Thepocalypse March 21, 2009 at 8:14 am -      #3

    Whoa! Awesome scenario this time Admin! Really creative.
    Team 1: Kratos and Arbiter take base defense. I assume the flags are on either side of the mines, so they should be in fairly enclosed exit and entrance areas where bladed weapons would be useful. Arbiter can snipe down the hall with a beam rifle while Kratos drives the ghost around, splattering any enemies that get too close and hacking those he misses by hand. They’ll keep one warthog on top of the flag to slow down attackers. (Anyone that plays Halo knows how to do this.)
    Chief and Freeman are on offense, taking one warthog and one gunship. Freeman pilots the gunship while MC drives the warthog. When they approach Vader and Samus, Chief drops an energy drain and messes them up, probably disabling his own vehicle. Freeman flies ahead of the detained warthog and blasts Link and Grievous from the air. Once the way is cleared, Master Chief starts up the Warthog again and rushes the flag. He snatches it, sticks the warthog and hops into the gunship where he’ll man a gun as they fly back with the flag. I’m too lazy to write that much for the next two rounds.
    Team 2: Grievous and Link get base defense as they both have long and short range attacks. Flag is covered by a warthog and Link drives a ghost, using the same strategy as Kratos. Grievous stands at the base entrance, ready to strike attackers with his lightsaber should Link fail.
    Vader and Samus go on offense. Vader force throws the warthog into the enemy defenders, temporarily knocking them out so that they cannot snipe Samus and himself as they approach. Samus will fire upon the enemy attackers if they run into eachother. Both Samus and Vader take gunships and fly in, attacking with the primary weapons to shift any debris (warthog) on the flag. Vader then hops in and force pulls the flag into his gunship. They fly back safely.
    Should either side meet the Balrog, they’ll get owned and possibly destroy a section of the mine in the process, slowing both teams down.

  4. Scenario March 21, 2009 at 8:25 am -      #4

    I say team 2. Balrog would interrupt things, but I think they can take it.

  5. Thepocalypse March 21, 2009 at 9:05 am -      #5

    “we probably all know that vader can just use force to get the flag first”
    He can’t do it through walls, so he’d have to get pretty darn close considering this is Moria.

  6. Cpt Olimar March 21, 2009 at 9:55 am -      #6

    I wonder who is the most favored in this environment. Samus certainly has a boatload of experience in caves and underground environments. Something that Llink doesnt have too much of, and I have no idea about the others.

    In actual combat, Vader dominates everyone except Kratos, who might be able to pull off some timestop to send him into a respawn. Samus is also superior to the other team’s firepower players.

    It should also be remembered that Samus does have super sonic speed, if she has room to use it. Who knows if she could find some “secret” passage with the morph ball. If there was an environment to have weakened holes or small passages, it would be Moria.

  7. EnigmaJ March 21, 2009 at 1:47 pm -      #7

    “Whoa! Awesome scenario this time Admin! Really creative.”

    Agreed. Lets see…

    I would think Team 2 has the overall advantage in this fight. Most of of the people on Team 1, except for Kratos, would get owned by Samus and Vader. Unless Masterchief, Arby, and Freemen could sneak around under the detection of these two guys ( which I doubt considering Vader’s force sensitivity. Maybe they could with the help of Kratos… ) and grab the flag under thier noses, its a done deal. Link could help out Vader and Samus when needed. Grievous seems a nonfactor in this match…. idk.. maybe I just dont like him…. >.

  8. Thepocalypse March 21, 2009 at 2:11 pm -      #8

    “Samus certainly has a boatload of experience in caves and underground environments. Something that Llink doesnt have too much of,”
    Link spends a lot of his time in the Hyrule underworld, so I think he can handle himself.

  9. Master Arbiter(Spartan G44) March 21, 2009 at 7:08 pm -      #9

    Thanks Admin! And getting on here so quikly thanks again. I think it is a pretty fair match Kratos vs Vader, Chief vs Samus(She might have a slight edge), Arby vs Grevious, Gordon vs Link. I think maybe just maybe the Barlog might take them out and force the teams to work together. But as much as I like Team 1 I think Team 2 will pull it off. Again thanks for putting it up :)

  10. JoshMcFace March 21, 2009 at 8:20 pm -      #10

    Brilliant CTF, but I think team two has this one.
    Samus could immobilize the other team with a power bomb and use the screw attack, speed boost and morph ball to make her way through the mines. Grevious could hold the others down with his unpredictable fighting style, while Vader uses the force from a distance. Link could be on the defense with all his equipment. He might be able to use Ococo in this one, seeing as its a race to 3. But I’m not too sure about that.
    There’s hardly any chance of stealth for the opposition. There’s definitely no hiding from a team with Samus’s visors and Vader’s sensitivity.
    The Balrog is practically instead death for anyone that comes across it though, unless there’s some teaming up to take it on.

  11. x on March 21, 2009 at 8:41 pm -      #11

    Guys team 1 has a god on there side… if they did not have Kratos on there team they all die but they have him soo they win in to me.

  12. Scenario March 21, 2009 at 11:06 pm -      #12

    I think Samus can take Kratos, she’s certainly got more firepower than any of the others. Link could go Nayru’s love/magic armor/staff of Byrna and just stand on the flag; no-one could move him.

  13. Cpt Olimar March 22, 2009 at 12:03 am -      #13

    scenario, remember that Nayru’s love does NOT stop knockback. When you get hit, you get moved, even with Iron Boots on. And the stronger the hit (ganon form) the more knockback. He may not techincally take damage, but he would get knockback for sure.

  14. Space marine March 22, 2009 at 8:28 pm -      #14

    So I think the winner is: BALROG he ate them all.

  15. El Zilcho March 24, 2009 at 1:20 am -      #15

    @ Space Marine
    Oh yeh, Balrog ftw.

  16. Master Arbiter(Spartan G44) March 24, 2009 at 9:11 pm -      #16

    I agree Barlog ftw as well.

  17. Scenario March 24, 2009 at 9:58 pm -      #17

    Samus could take a balrog…

  18. x on March 24, 2009 at 10:18 pm -      #18

    “Samus could take a balrog…” No no she can’t the only one there that can is Kratos as he is a god.

    I vote team 1 win’s.

  19. L-W March 24, 2009 at 10:20 pm -      #19

    “Samus could take a balrog…”


  20. Cpt Olimar March 24, 2009 at 11:25 pm -      #20

    A Balrog can only be harmed by magic right? So ironically, the only two who can harm him are Link and Kratos, while Vader is probably stronger than both of them. Unless the Force can be considered to be magic.

  21. Space marine March 24, 2009 at 11:47 pm -      #21

    “Samus could take a balrog…”



  22. kano547 March 24, 2009 at 11:54 pm -      #22

    “Samus could take a balrog”……fail. no she could not,not unless she had a gun that shot little mini gandalfs out of it or some other wizard because thats the only thing that can really kill a balrog

  23. Tim March 25, 2009 at 4:36 am -      #23

    Link could handle the Balrog, he’s fought similar things to it before and the Master Sword and Light Arrows would be hugely damaging to it, and his Ice Arrows might be as well. He could also beat Kratos in a fight by using things like the Four Sword and the Fierce Deity Mask. Team 2 wins because they are overall superior to Team 1 and have someone who can defeat The Balrog if it tries to attack them.

    P.S. How would they use the vehicles in The Mines of Moria? There isn’t enough space for them to move around properly.

  24. Thepocalypse March 25, 2009 at 4:48 am -      #24

    “not unless she had a gun that shot little mini gandalfs out of it”
    I may quote that.

  25. hellatus March 25, 2009 at 6:11 am -      #25

    What kind of warthogs are those given to the teams if they are guasse it would be good for arbiter and chief cause they know how to use it

    i think freeman will take a vehicle. but not so sure abt kratos

    i know vader is an awesome pilot and will take a gunship . i guess samus will too greivous will get a ghost and link i think will be amazed by the cool future tech and not be able to use it

  26. Scenario March 25, 2009 at 7:11 am -      #26

    Well, then. I could make the argument that Samus’s weapons are backed by Chozo magic. I could argue that a Balrog has been extinguished by completely non-magical water, thus somewhat weakening it. I could say that a Balrog seems immune to non-magical weapons because LotR has swords, rather than death rays.

    But I won’t, because it seems, by general consensus, that I am an idiot.

  27. Space marine March 25, 2009 at 8:53 am -      #27

    “But I won’t, because it seems, by general consensus, that I am an idiot.”

    No, You just made a mistake is all.

  28. L-W March 25, 2009 at 9:14 am -      #28

    “But I won’t, because it seems, by general consensus, that I am an idiot.”

    Yes, yes you are.

    Chozo use psychokinetic energy and highly advanced neuron based technologies that are often mistaken for magic, whilst powerful it is nowhere near that of a Maia’s true strength. The Balrog had to fall into a vast frozen subterranean lake and remain there for eight days just to temporarly extinguish the ethereal flames that coat it’s torso, requiring the power of another Maia to keep them from re-igniting. Despite this occurrence, the Balrog returned to it’s original state prior to the final confrontation at mount Zirakzigil.

    Finally, the denizens of Middle-Earth must contend with only an arsenal of Axes, Swords and Bows, but no mortal machination is ever designed to compared to the Maia for time immemorial. Only another Maia or a being of higher order (Such as a Valar) can ever hope to oppose the Balrog.

    Riddle me this, is Samus a Maia?

  29. Matapiojo March 25, 2009 at 9:42 am -      #29

    “Riddle me this, is Samus a Maia?”

    Wait, wait. I know the answer.

    /raises hand

  30. Space marine March 25, 2009 at 10:46 am -      #30

    We all know Mata, You can put your hand down now.

  31. Matapiojo March 25, 2009 at 11:47 am -      #31

    “We all know Mata, You can put your hand down now.”

    EFF YOU, HOMES!!!!

  32. Thepocalypse March 25, 2009 at 2:18 pm -      #32

    “EFF YOU, HOMES!!!!”
    He’s going street! Tie him up and play some rock!

  33. marche March 25, 2009 at 5:22 pm -      #33

    “He’s going street! Tie him up and play some rock!”
    whoa whoa,i don understand your hip young lingo son.

  34. Space marine March 25, 2009 at 7:35 pm -      #34

    I think we will need Slash, Or maybe just Dragonforce, That should do it.

  35. Space marine March 25, 2009 at 7:50 pm -      #35

    WoW! I just made this thread go way off topic by saying Balrog wins.


  36. EnigmaJ March 25, 2009 at 8:18 pm -      #36

    Well, indirectly.

    As this comment “Samus could take a balrog…”, which is actually what started this whole thing, is derived from your comment…

  37. Space marine March 25, 2009 at 9:50 pm -      #37

    “Well, indirectly.”

  38. El Zilcho March 26, 2009 at 4:44 am -      #38

    “not unless she had a gun that shot little mini gandalfs out of it”
    Lol, I want one.

    As foolhardy as it might be, I’m going to second the Link can beat a Balrog motion.

  39. Matapiojo March 26, 2009 at 4:05 pm -      #39

    “I’m going to second the Link can beat a Balrog motion.”

    Damage? Sure.

    Beat? Not so sure, but that can be a duel match all onto itself, and certainly not the point in this match.

    The Balrog must be neutralized by the effort(s) of Link and/or Kratos. That leaves Team1 with a major disadvantage, while Team2 still has some very strong members. Despite Team1 having a cloaker (Arbiter), I am gonna side with the might of Team2 to get the win in the end.

  40. Matapiojo March 26, 2009 at 4:06 pm -      #40

    Oh and post 1,000, marche.

    Where be mah cookeh!!??

  41. Master Arbiter(Spartan G44) March 26, 2009 at 8:24 pm -      #41

    Maybe Link could beat a Balorg maybe just maybe.

  42. marche March 26, 2009 at 10:07 pm -      #42

    well well,seems like mata has crossed the finish line,better make sure to be second.
    oh and here is your cookie:

  43. Space marine March 26, 2009 at 11:05 pm -      #43

    @ mache


  44. Space marine March 26, 2009 at 11:12 pm -      #44

    “Maybe Link could beat a Balorg maybe just maybe.”


    Massive firey Whip to the face, Many many times.

  45. Space marine March 26, 2009 at 11:23 pm -      #45

    @ Marche again, Your Offer is Pathetic!!!

    Take this matapijio


  46. kano547 March 26, 2009 at 11:42 pm -      #46

    i think that pic is the result of steroids

    “a gun that shot little mini gandalfs out of it” you all know you want one just so you can set it to full auto(yes my mini gandalf gun is an automatic)and whatch them swarm your enemies and beat them with their tiny little wizard staffs

  47. hellatus March 26, 2009 at 11:46 pm -      #47

    waay off the topic with those cookies

  48. Cpt Olimar March 27, 2009 at 12:13 am -      #48

    “Massive firey Whip to the face, Many many times.”

    Not to sound like a COMPLETE idiotic fanboy, but Link can basically walk on fire and he only takes a 1/4 heart every like 5 seconds. Sure, his fire is magically and indeed more dangerous, but the Goron Suit is actually quite Potent. Hell, you can roll in some of the lava areas and not even get hurt! With a combination of Spell deflections and Heat resistance, it would make for a good match. However, Link could be easily KO-d by anyone on Team 1 while he is fighting it, which probably means that nobody will be able to actually kill the Balrog without getting killed by the enemy team.

  49. Matapiojo March 27, 2009 at 6:42 am -      #49

    Aaaahhhhh yesssss. Those cookehs be worthy indeed. Great examples of quality and cuantity. Now I am shooting for #2,000.

    I know where you are going with this, and I suppose that could be taken into account, but the reality is that the Balrob’s flame is not a natural flame infused with shadow just to give it that extra touch. We have seen Link ignoring the effects of intense heat and environmental flames, but he still gets damaged normaly by supernatural sources such as Volvagia’s flames.

    In my opinion, the Balrog’s power can be comparable to Dragon’s for the sake of this reference. I am leaning towards the Goron Tunic not providing nearly as much protection as people throughout this site make it out to do.

  50. El Zilcho March 27, 2009 at 8:46 am -      #50

    @ Mata
    True, there are many characters who use “fire” and still hurt link; Volvagia, Poe Ghosts, even those annoying flame walls. The Goron’s tunic protects link from heat (such as the inside of a Volcano) not fire based attacks, although this may just be game mechanics.

    Either way, this fight needs to be concluded.

  51. Matapiojo March 27, 2009 at 9:21 am -      #51

    Wow, my puertorricaness just bled profusely on that last posts. Not only are there too many typos to count, but I seemed to have neglected to even use basic sentence structure.

    @El Zilcho

    Yes, it might be considered a game mechanic to some extent, but the truth is that the examples seem to be far too consistent to be discarded as such. The truth is that throughout the many game incarnations, the Goron Tunic (or similar items) grant Link with some partial protection over such exposure. The tunic is not an absolute flame source nullifier (as is Drizzt Do’Urden’s Icingdeath scimitar).

    I think that Link is certainly much too vulnerable to the Balrog’s attacks, and I have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise.

    As for the actual CTF resolution, I already gave my opinion in the matter. Team2 should be able to take the win based on the following:

    Kratos/Link = busy with the Balrog because they are the only ones capable of stalling the beast at the very least.

    Arbiter/Samus = they run point for their teams. Arbi has a good advantage with Elite cloaking technology, but both Samus and Vader could detect him. Samus has a better speed advantage over the other members of Team1.

    MC/Vader = they are the general team defense, and we know which of the two would be the more deadly.

    Freeman/Grievous = the teams’ support. they are able to fill any gaps the other team elements may leave. They could either suport Arbiter/Samus on the offense witht he Ghosts, or they could suport MC/Vader with some clever Warthog defense. Aside from that, almost like MC/Vader, Grievous is simply superior to Freeman.

    Aside from the Ghosts, the other vehicles would just slow things down as the stage is too cluttered for propper maneuvering.

  52. marche March 27, 2009 at 9:34 am -      #52

    “Now I am shooting for #2,000.”
    ill be damned if i let you get their,even if you have a 100+ post head start
    *shakes fists*

  53. arm chair warrior March 27, 2009 at 12:04 pm -      #53

    see in my opinion it depends on the rules of this CTF thinm about some of them you can capture the flag even though your is not there but in unreal tournament you need to have your flag and theres in your posesion to win but in my opinion with samus speed, grievous tactics, links might and magic, and vader force and skills there is no match yes i wil give you kratos but the piont of this much is not to kill it is to get that damn flag.

  54. Cpt Olimar March 27, 2009 at 12:48 pm -      #54

    Its more of a joke, but is link allowed to use his longshot to get flags? Because that would be awesome. He bombs through a wall or something and then naps it and runs away. Samus’s grapple might destroy the flag in grabbing it but I could see Link’s longshot working here heh heh.

    Just though of something else. Is warp magic allowed? Because if he sets a warp at his home base, does the bomb trick and longshot’s the flag…. that’s an instant win of that round. This warp magic isn’t even used by the ocarina, its literally a spell that he casts, and it doesn’t involve time travel either. That actually makes Link a much better candidate than it seems. Just give the flag to him and he warps back, man that’s almost cheating.

    Indeed I am highly considering the effects of the tunic. It’s inconsistent however, in the fact that walking on lava/fire does nearly nothing, but TOUCHING volvagia is 3 whole hearts of damage. Now while he is a boss, and having a boss do nothing because of your armor would be quite lame, it can’t be entirely due to mechanics. I wonder if the Ice Arrows would *disable* the balrog, maybe for a second of two to allow allies to pass through. However, I felt it was worth mentioning so that people didn’t think that he would be OHKO-d by it.

  55. Thepocalypse March 27, 2009 at 2:18 pm -      #55

    My official word of the day.
    I’d discount the Volvagia thing as a gameplay device.

  56. L-W March 27, 2009 at 9:10 pm -      #56

    Lava is dense, viscous and has a remarkably low reflective radiant temperature as a result, with the decrease in the temperature of two separate points at a distance reflects the radiant cooling and consequent thickening of the lava plates. Depending on whether or not the Lava is active or cooling (Technically we should label is Magma), it should be quite feasible that Link could stroll across it given the right protection.

    As for Volvagia, it makes sense that a spirit entity could harm Link with what is essentially an ethereal flame, a type of Hellfire that subverts magical or physical buffs and deals direct harm to the user. And why not? Volvagia does not follow any conventional law of physics present in Hyrule, is a Spirit Dragon really that far-fetched?

  57. Cpt Olimar March 28, 2009 at 12:07 am -      #57

    I have to admit, when playing the game, I never really thought of Volvagia as a spirit dragon. That said, I never thought he specifically WASNT one either. Although i certainly agree that his ability to fly in the air cont be contributed to some magical power. If we assume that his flame is magical in nature, then volvagia’s effects on link can be somewhat compared to balrog, although at a weaker level. (MUCH weaker) Still, I would agrue that the cloak would provide some protection.

    On another note, Since the flames are magical/ethereal in nature , certianly for Balrog, I wonder how the mirror shield would stack up here.

  58. arm chair warrior March 28, 2009 at 2:26 am -      #58

    what are we talking about the guy from street fighter. you know the boxer dude because so he sucks.

  59. Matapiojo March 28, 2009 at 7:25 am -      #59

    “On another note, Since the flames are magical/ethereal in nature , certianly for Balrog, I wonder how the mirror shield would stack up here.”

    As I have it understood, the Mirror Shield would provide considerable defense against the Balrog’s mighty melee attacs, but he does not have that many projectile attacks for them to be deflected/reflected.

    There are several depictions of Balrogs projecting large flame area of effect attacks. I think the shield could protect Link if used correctly.



  60. Cpt Olimar March 28, 2009 at 11:17 am -      #60

    And while hes doing so, MC snipes him from a distance for a quick respawn. Even if Link or Kratos could beat Balrog, I can only see the opposite team killing them while doing so.

  61. arm chair warrior March 28, 2009 at 2:11 pm -      #61

    ok ok i get it but see this is my thinking well super is only weak to three things kyptonight, magic, and technology far suporior to regular tech so well if you think about it magic may have be the only thing able to kill him at that time but we have better weapon that we are not sure how they would effect it so the only question is really is that is it possilbe to be effected by better weapon. for exaple the thing does have a face so what if you were going to blow it up with a rocket laucher because as far as i know this thing cannot regenerate.

  62. Matapiojo March 28, 2009 at 2:38 pm -      #62

    “Even if Link or Kratos could beat Balrog, I can only see the opposite team killing them while doing so.”

    That is indeed the nature of team PvP. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

  63. EnigmaJ March 28, 2009 at 5:39 pm -      #63

    Think Vader and his force powers could stop the Balrog?

  64. El Zilcho March 28, 2009 at 6:03 pm -      #64

    The Mirror shield is a much better option versus the Balrog, because its designed to block, reflect and absorb mystical/magically attacks.
    As shown during the fight with Twinrova in The Spirit Temple (OoT), Link is capable of absorbing attacks magic based attacks. So he could potentially absorb fire attacks made by the Balrog, and then unleash them on the opposing team.

  65. Scenario March 28, 2009 at 8:53 pm -      #65

    I am now prepared to fight again.

    First off, the Chozo could use magic. The Metroids, their creations, feed off of an invisible and incorporeal energy source, dubbed “life force” by Space Pirates because it does not exist in the material world, and all living creatures possess it. Samus’s suit also runs on it. Not electricity, just the energy that dead enemies drop. Then the Chozo advised the Bryyonians on their magic, and how they should find a balance between it and technology. The Bryyonians didn’t listen, and the magical “primals” went to war with the “lords of science”. Judging from the remains, magic won. Then the Chozo went and ascended to a higher plane of existance, or became Chozo Ghosts in one case (here it should be noted that Samus’s suit warded off spiritual attacks by these ghosts, attacks that ripped through Space Pirate armor).

    Second, the Balrog’s flame was immediately extinguished in Moria’s lake. It then fled, and was pursued by Galdalf for eight days, not igiting until they had passed. And this was against Gandalf the Grey, who is a LESSER Maiar, and not near as powerful as a true Maiar.

    Samus’s ice beam is capable of freezing solid a creature made of fire that was, in fact, submerged in magma at the time of said freezing solid. Her shields protected her from Ing spiritual possession, and a Metroid’s life drain, neither of which are entirely physical in nature. Dark Aether’s atmosphere wasn’t toxic, it was the bane of life itself, and it’s inhabitants, like most supernatural creatures, are vulnerable to sunlight. Samus has a gun that shoots sunlight, albeit in a more focused, solid form. Now I repeat, in all seriousness, that Samus can defeat a balrog.

    Now if you want to call me an idiot, you’ll have to do it yourself, rather than just agree with a statement made half in jest.

  66. L-W March 29, 2009 at 12:05 am -      #66

    1) I hardly see that as a magical construct equivalent to the “Halls of Valar”, instead I would dub it as a form of high evolution, not ethereal in nature. Just to reiterate, Chozo use their evolved psychokinetic energy (High-Evolution) and highly advanced neuron based technologies (Technological-Evolution) that are often mistaken for magical constructs, whilst powerful and seemingly magical to the minds of lesser beings, it does not follow the trends present in theological occurrence (Non-Evolution).

    Sans the older mythology associated with it’s apparent existence, Chozo suits the caliber of Sci-Fantasy, not true theological fantasy.

    2) The purpose of that statement regarding the final confrontation at mount Zirakzigil was to demonstrate that extinguishing the flames of the Balrog is not a means of weakening it, since the flames themselves are only a symbolic embodiment of their creation. Like Melkor, the Balrogs developed an affinity for fire and darkness. They took terrible man-like shapes but cloaked themselves in a malleable darkness or unlight. Their physical bodies were not normal flesh-and-blood husks like the Children of Ilûvatar possessed (and which some of the Valar and Maiar made for themselves). The Balrogs snorted flames and their dark mane-like appendages could burst into flame. Gandalf called their fiery emanations a “dark fire”, and it may be this dark fire was equivalent to an unfire.

    The arguments against the ethereal nature of the Balrogs are thus based on misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and false assumptions.

    3) The Maiar (Maia is singular) who took Human form, such as Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast were refered to as Isatar, or lesser Valar (Or Ainur). Gandalf the Grey (In fact Gandalf in all forms) was not a lesser Maia. Neither was the Balrog, in fact the Balrogs were Maiar of the same order as Sauron, Saruman and Gandalf, but were seduced by Melkor, who corrupted them to his service in the days of his splendour before the making of Arda.

    In fact the only being even coming close to the term “Lesser Maiar” was Boldog (An Orc Captain of the first age), but the theory of Boldogs as Orc-shaped Maiar entered the legendarium at a relatively late stage, and was not taken up in the published Silmarillion, making their relevance and term itself unsubstantial at best.

    4) The final argument comes down to the issue of High-Science Vs. Omnipotent design, with my decision resting firmly upon the matter of God beats Rocket Launcher. Despite the realm of Middle-Earth being archaic in it’s offensive capabilities, I would say that it is a fallacy to suggest that the spirit of a lesser Valar could be undone by High-Technology or High-Evolution.

    Unless Samus falls under the classification of a lesser Valar also?

  67. Scenario March 29, 2009 at 8:02 pm -      #67

    I wonder if Gil-Galad and Elendil were Maiar. You know, the Elf and Human that fought to a standstill with Sauron himself? While he still had the One Ring. Power in Lord of the Rings is a subtle thing, based on trickery and support rather than blowing stuff up. When Maia take mortal form, they give up some power. Gandalf the White is still Maiar, right? I said ‘lesser’ simply because of the power difference between White and Gray.

    Without magic, I guess the best Samus could do is destroy it’s physical form. The form which had its ‘ethereal’ flame doused by normal, though frigid, water and could be thrown against rock with enough force to kill it. Samus has killed incorporeal beings before, the Ing being the best example, and the psychic dimensional beast Gorea a close second. Finally, there are still Chozo ghosts.

    And yes, God beats rocket launcher. But then, I’m not saying Samus can kill it’s spirit. The examples above were at least partly physical, and I’m willing to bet that a Balrog’s shadow and fire are its manifestation, something Samus can destroy to leave it in a form similar to a Nazgul without its cloak.

    I’ll let you have the Chozo being non magical, but not this.

  68. Skrunks March 29, 2009 at 9:34 pm -      #68

    I think it might be possible for Samus to defeat a Balrog, but if she did, it would only be by a very slight margin. But then agian, I only know what I’ve read, I don’t know a whole lot about LotR mythos.

    As for the team battle, I wonder, do you think that Vader could manipulate the Balrog to do his bidding? Or perhaps simply aim it’s fury? At the very least, Vader would be able to sence the Balrog and Samus’ sensors might be able to detect the ambient energy being eminated by the Balrog. So at the very least, Vader could keep his team mates out of the path of that monster and lead the other team into a confrontation with it. I’d say that would give team 2 the advantage it would need to win.

  69. Cpt Olimar March 29, 2009 at 9:40 pm -      #69

    I forgot about chozo ghosts. Why does the power beam hurt them? Aren’t they ethereal too? Ugh, there are many weird things in the metroid series that might as well be magic, but since its not a game which formally recognizes magic, it cannot technically be considered to be so. Her attacks basically have to be regarded as tech, regardless of whether or not they defy the laws of physics.

  70. marche March 29, 2009 at 11:11 pm -      #70

    wow,the whole balrog in the middle thing became its own vs match.

  71. Space marine March 30, 2009 at 6:34 am -      #71

    There are several depictions of Balrogs projecting large flame area of effect attacks. I think the shield could protect Link if used correctly.

    Indeed, BUT, D you think that balrog will fight link like all the other bosses? Letting them strike you, not using their full capabilities?

    The mirror shield in my opinion could do only very little, Some called….BACKLASH;The force of the whip should send link flying anyway and if it doesn’t then the backlash will hurt link.

    Ok here is how it goes, Balrog whips link, Link uses his shield to try to stop the whip, The whip makes contact with the shield and wraps around link due to the backlash, Balrog pulls the stunned hero towards him and crushes him with a flurry of melee punches.

    When you think about it, The boss battles In Hyrule are quite lame. Remember that monster in the shadow temple in OOT? Why didn’t it just bring up its bongo hands and bring them down fast? Or why not just pick him up and crush him?

    Answer to that is…Because If link tried to deal with the majority of the bosses Using the bosses complete compatabilities, He would lose.

    Link will get a fatal case of backlash.

  72. Wraith March 30, 2009 at 9:04 am -      #72

    I’d go with Vader’s team. The Force pulls the Flag over faster than anyone can react =)

  73. Matapiojo March 30, 2009 at 9:18 am -      #73

    “Indeed, BUT, D you think that balrog will fight link like all the other bosses?”

    You misunderstood. While I think that the powerful Mirror Shield could grant Link some protection if used right, I do not beleive the hero could survive the encounter.

    Balrogs are not chumps. They are not mindless minions. they are not simpletons with obvious weaknesses. They are powerful beings who have overpowered, dominated, ruled, and outmaneuvered other beings for hundreds and even thousands of years.

    Sinse I agree with marche, I will make my point count towards the argument. All I ever intended to exemplify was that all either team could hope to do in the scenario is hold the Balrog off. They cannot defeat it without risking an opening for the other team to gain the upper hand by scoring one or more captures.

    The Balrog is a great stall mechanic inherent in this stage, and each team has the tools to have that stall not be a point of defeat, but the beast will remain in the fight no matter what.

  74. Cpt Olimar March 30, 2009 at 12:51 pm -      #74

    Space Marine, remeber that Balrog comes from a book series while Llink comees from a game series. Game mechanics are a HUGE part of boss battle in video games. What fun would it be if you stayed as manuverable as you were in OoT, but had bongo bongo (Shadow temple boss) sending his hands all over the place slapping you silly? Not fun if you ask me. The character is downplayed to make the game amazing. Still, I’m not arguing that this means Link>Balrog, but it is something that you should remember. If you played as Gandalf in a game against balrog, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t you rush and step and kill you in one second either.

    Back to the CTF, I still say that Link’s ability with Warp Magic is going to give his team yet another advantage against the other team. By setting a warp point at his base, he has the ability to warp there to add another defender there, as well as being able to take the flag from an ally and instantly warping there for a score.

  75. Matapiojo March 30, 2009 at 6:05 pm -      #75

    Ah, forgot about that little detail. That just slams down the final nail in the coffin. Team2 has all of the advantages in this fight.

    Kratos must be really irritated with his teammates. They get only one Mark of Honor…

  76. Cpt Olimar March 30, 2009 at 8:51 pm -      #76

    Kratos might kill his allies in anger at their lack of usefulness. I could so see him rage quitting.

    Well, I think its time for another CTF scenario, unless we are missing something here.

  77. marche March 30, 2009 at 9:31 pm -      #77

    well their goes team 1.
    if team 2 could bypass the balrog they are the winner.

  78. JoshMcFace April 3, 2009 at 6:14 pm -      #78

    “I wonder, do you think that Vader could manipulate the Balrog to do his bidding? Or perhaps simply aim it’s fury?”
    I don’t think so. The Balrog’s are loyal only to their master (namely Morgoth), and have never been shown to be controllable by anyone else. Although they were famed for strength in combat rather than intelligence and willpower, they are not as mindless as one might think and have been shown to gather followers. If Vader attempted to manipulate one, he would be met with a fiery whip, mace, axe and sword.

  79. Skrunks April 4, 2009 at 11:21 pm -      #79

    Still though, Vader and Samus would be able to know of the Balrog’s presence long before Team 1. They could avoid him and even lead team 1 into a possible conflict, which gives them another clear advantage. Hmm, that spurs another thought, wouldn’t Freeman, MC and Arby get lost? The Mines of Moria are huge, and although Kratos is a demi-god, he still isin’t renkown for his pathfinding abilities. Samus is, and is capable of mapping an entire area. Vader should be able to detect where to go either from his suit or the force, giving them a serious mobility advantage.

  80. the_man_with The_Answers April 10, 2009 at 8:12 pm -      #80

    How can team 1 lose they have both gods of war(MC and duh the GOD of War) You can’t kill a god. Samous and Grevious are the only threats from team 2. Darth Vader would die in one shot thing. Note that a god knows all mortal things and MC is incredible at finding his way around(he has Cortana). If everyone followed those guys then it’s a sure win for team one. Samous and MC are obviously the fastest, MC’s 130 km/hr speed and Samous’s power ball(I don’t know the speed for that but I’m guessing at around 80km/h). still they got a friggen god so they have the win.

  81. the_man_with The_Answers April 10, 2009 at 8:16 pm -      #81

    As for the Barlog I think the gunships could handle that consiering both teams would probably join together to kill it realizng thatas long as it lives it would kill them all.

  82. Scenario April 10, 2009 at 10:43 pm -      #82

    I can see Samus choosing to ignore the maze and Shinesparking through the freaking walls to get the flag. I can also see a combination of X-ray visor and wave beam sniping through walls.

    @Answers: Kratos is fairly weak for a god. He has never displayed any Omnipotence whatsoever, and is still able to be killed. He doesn’t fight like a god, either. No righteous smiting from the heavens, no flooding the world, no making your opponent cease to exist in reality. He’s more of a mythical hero than a god. Either way, I doubt he could stand up to Fierce Deity/Oni Link.

    With Samus and Grievous on offense and Vader and Link on defense, team two wins. Both Samus and Grievous can carve a path through the maze, led by Samus’s maps, and reach the flag. Then Samus uses speed booster to get back. Vader will hold down/strangle anyone that comes near with the Force while Link snipes with various arrows (bomb, fire, ice, light) from a vantage point above the flag.

  83. Chief Mstr Sgt April 17, 2009 at 10:37 pm -      #83

    This is not a fair match.

    Most of us have played CTF on one of the three halos
    It’s not the team with the most kills, it’s the small group (or single guy) who booked it across the map, stole the flag from under the guards nose, then ran it back.
    And also, forget the vehicles
    Samus is the fastest character (faster then the vehicles I believe) and speed is what wins a ctf match.
    You know this to be true.

    You can’t see her, you can’t catch her, you can’t even hit her.
    Well…Chief has the reaction time (measured in milliseconds) to snipe her, but she has more that enough power (Each energy tank being 99 health) to take some damage.

    The point is Samus could end the game before team 1 could make an offensive or defensive move.

  84. the_man_with The_Answers April 18, 2009 at 9:31 am -      #84

    Good piont. But if Samous ran into the barlog than she would be down pretty fast. MC is faster than most slow-mid speed vehicles but not as fast a Samous. If Samous tripped or ran into something than team 1 wins. Otherwise Team 2 wins.

  85. JoshMcFace April 18, 2009 at 12:16 pm -      #85

    “The point is Samus could end the game before team 1 could make an offensive or defensive move.”
    Samus does have the ability to run at supersonic speeds, but she has very little maneuverability while doing so. The Speed Boost is used almost entirely to drill through enemies and certain walls in a wide area and I think the solid walls and lack of wide open space present in the Mines of Moria are enough to stop her, not that she couldn’t take advantage of her speed in some areas of the mines.

  86. Cpt Olimar April 18, 2009 at 2:19 pm -      #86

    She also could take out bridges and such considering she can essentially fly with the screw attack. This would prevent the other team from getting past forcing them to find another route.

  87. Scenario April 19, 2009 at 4:45 pm -      #87

    She flies with the space jump. The screw attack just has the added bonus of destroying everything. Except when they were combined in the Prime series, which is a much weaker version. But that is correct, no-one on the other team can fly without the ships, which Samus could easily destroy. And she’d only need maybe fifty feet of space to activate a speed boost.

  88. Kyrr April 20, 2009 at 3:14 pm -      #88

    ok, considering nobody on team 2 (vader, samus, grievous, link) even knows how to use a warthog…uhhh, it all goes to team one…kratos would just annihilate vader. chief would distract grievous as the arbiter went stealth with a plasma sword. Freeman v. link?…tsh, freeman could probably beat link with just his crowbar…let alone his full arsenal. samus would just be like a thorn in the paw of team one, and everyone would jump her after they were done with their own target….also…neutral balrog?! lulz?

  89. Skrunks April 20, 2009 at 3:36 pm -      #89

    I’d say about a 100 meters or so to activate the speed boost. But another thing Samus is capable of is using the speed boost, then jumping into a space jump/screw attack. That was one of my favorite things to do in Metroid Zero Mission. A supersonic flaming ball of sentient plasma. Fun stuff. Even Kratos would be pulverized from a hit like that.

  90. Cpt Olimar April 20, 2009 at 3:51 pm -      #90

    samus could nearly solo team 1 by herself, with kratos magic being the only thing messing her up. Even still, the punishment she can take is incredible.

    “ok, considering nobody on team 2 (vader, samus, grievous, link) even knows how to use a warthog…uhhh, it all goes to team one”

    Almost any attack from Samus could one hit a warthog. Move aside primitive technology! Eat a super missile and upgrade your defenses! I’ll take mach 5 over a big warthog in the moria mines anyday, especially adding unliminted flight and the ability to find those small passages. As if the teams itself weren’t imbalanced enough, this kind of environment is almost perfect for samus.

  91. Scenario April 20, 2009 at 5:36 pm -      #91

    How difficult is it to drive a Warthog? Even so, ramming Samus with one would only succeed in splitting it in half. Also, one scan and Samus knows everything about the warthog.

    Link is certainly more than a match for Gordon, what with being protected by magic and all.

  92. FierceDeity888 April 29, 2009 at 10:39 pm -      #92

    Team 2 just has this one period. MC and Arbiter would be no match for anyone in team 2. The only one that can make a bit of a problem from team 1 is Kratos. He would be annihalated anyway.

  93. stackboy May 17, 2009 at 2:10 am -      #93

    i say team 1 because master chief and arbiter have the most experience at CTF

  94. Pokezilla June 9, 2009 at 10:39 am -      #94

    MC/Kratos team wins.

    Or the Balrog wins.

  95. Deathlord Metalgod June 10, 2009 at 3:26 am -      #95

    Allright this is how it will go down.I will assume that the two teams make the ships connect together somehow into the flag bases as it is the most logical thing. Arbiter vs Samus cause arbiter has no $exual attraction to a perfect bodied blondie, arbiter slices her in half as soon as she charges as a ball, or fuel rod the ground 15feet in front of her so she runs into a blast. Kratos’s raw god killing awesomeness vs Vader’s force, outcome: draw. technically kratos would fight to the end with every ounce of his wrath, then win, but die within 2-3 hours because they are basically equal. that or they cut eachother like mongolian beef. Gordon Freeman can easily shoot that loser link in the forhead, be it mature or toon version. Master Chief and Grevious, being the closest in power, would be the awesomest fight. Grevious has no force, which is why he had his limbs replaced with super robo versions. The Chief would capture Grevious’s left 2 sabers with an energy sword, then gravity hammer him in his right ab /arms (going for the head would leave his guard open and he wouldn’t ever consider it). Grevious then fights sideways using only his 2 left arms. he then rotates the above ones while slashing and stabbing with the below. chief suffers grevious wounds(no pun intended…ok maybe it was) and then gets on his knees. With the last bit of strength he shoots G in the heart and lungs, killing him, and lies on his back in victory. kratos respawns and goes for the flag, same as samus charging as a ball. arbiter cloaks and stays on the enemy flag area and kills samus as soon as she runs in(she cant hold a flag and be a ball, lets be realistic). Arbiter returns his flag. they got 1 point. after this loss the vader team regroups and charges the front, samus doing longrange, grevious center guard, vader medium range, and link surveying the area with vader levitating him so they can get there the fastest way possible. Kratos swings his chain swords, arbiter and chief throw grenades, and freeman rocket launches them. if by any chance they survive, chief spartan lasers the wounded samus to death, arbiter jumps up ninja style and decapitates Link, Kratos wraps his chain swords again and rips grevious apart. Freeman is getting force choked so he throws his crowbar at his head, allowing him to fall down. as soon as he hits the ground he grenade launches him with his smg. they get the flag again.Link the pathetic loser goes on a ghost and goes for the base as grevious mounts his lightsabers on a warthog and drives as samus uses her gunarm / turret. Vader uses the force to shoot his turret as he drives the other warthog. kratos gets shot in the head by vader, grevious slams into freeman with lightsabers, samus shoots down arbiter, but he cloaks, and rests behind something to rest and recover. Chief comes to his rescue but link guns him with a ghost then runs him over. Chief gives his rocket launcher to arbiter, and with his last breath says: you were my first true friend, my last true friend. our two races may never be allied to eachother, but it never mattered to me. BTW…no ho…mo.uuhhh(dies). they then capture the flag. team kratos 2 team vader 1. seeing as team Kratos, aside from gordon freeman, have major anger issues, get such a fury that they crash their 2 warthogs and ghost into the enemies and blows them up. they jumped out so it wasn’t actually a suicide bombing. vader force blasts the warthog sent at him away, so then the 4 of the guys all go at him at once. he dies, killing the arbiter, who’s last breaths of this spawn says: truly, you were, my only friend, my people called you a demon, john, but I, a hero. tell whoever is leading my people that they can kiss my shiny metal @$$. whatever the hell a barlog is, it goes after the 3 remaining guys. I dont know what it is, but i will make it a worst case scenario. kratos gives his life chaining it down, freeman shoots it with every weapon he owns, and if it somehow survives that wont matter as chief runs for the flag, throwing grenades at the thing as he runs. if still it is alive on his way back, it gets free, and freeman gives his life making damn sure chief scores. the end.

  96. Scenario June 10, 2009 at 1:09 pm -      #96

    Alright, so Samus can do either offense, smashing through everything with the speed booster to get the flag, or defense, sniping through the walls to kill anyone that gets close. With her visors, she can see through any cloak, and also see through the walls of the cave. She can kill anyone on team 1 several times over, including Kratos.

    Link is untouchable, and the only threat to him would be Gordon, but only because he can toss Link around with the gravity gun. He’s most likely offense, since no-one can damage him.

    Vader is defense, force choking anyone that comes close, and is able to sense when someone is coming. He can likely defeat Kratos.

    Grievous is probably the weakest, but I think he could take the Chief. Arbiter might present more of a problem, and Kratos could own him. He’s on defense.

    Overall, Team 2 is clearly superior.

  97. Deathlord Metalgod June 11, 2009 at 2:02 am -      #97

    “kiss my collossal metal @$$” – Bender

    “the guy above that thinks my entire story of how the hell it happens isn’t realistic is a dumbf**k” – Deathlord Metalgod

    “DLMG rules” – god

  98. Kenny C. June 14, 2009 at 11:21 pm -      #98

    Team one wins ,because why race when MC can snipe the other team while Kratos takes on the Balrog for practice.

    The more interesting question is who would win in a plasma sword vs. Indestructible crwobar with the Arbiter and Gorden Freeman.

  99. Scenario June 15, 2009 at 4:51 am -      #99

    Master Chief cannot snipe anyone on the other team except Grievous. It would do minor damage to Samus, bounce off of Link, and Vader would sense it before Chief pulled the trigger.

    So Kratos will take the Balrog? Both denying his team a valuable member and keeping the creature off the other team’s back? Team 2 will need to thank him for the easy win.

    But seriously, Team 2 has the advantage in speed, firepower, and adaptability. They win this.

  100. Matapiojo June 15, 2009 at 8:39 am -      #100

    “Team one wins ,because why race when MC can snipe the other team while Kratos takes on the Balrog for practice.”

    You went too far off-course for us to even try explaining how ridiculous your post is. It would take eons to give you turn-by-turn directions to the correct destination.

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