Juggernaut Vs Kharn

Juggernaut Vs Kharn the Betrayer

So here’s a match of brutality that would be very entertaining to watch. While it would seem that Kharn would have the advantage, I’m not sure a victory would come to him.

Who wins?

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109 Comments on "Juggernaut Vs Kharn"

  1. Matapiojo March 17, 2009 at 6:26 am -      #1

    Oh my.

    I cannot see how neither of them have the right stuff to kill the other. This…

    …this will take a while.

  2. cyborg pirate ninja jesus March 17, 2009 at 7:10 am -      #2

    kharn is just 2 good juggernaught only has strength but lets see how strong he is wen kharn chops off his arms and legs

  3. Thepocalypse March 17, 2009 at 7:19 am -      #3

    This fight cannot be won by Kharn. Juggernaut has powers rivaling those of Thor and the Hulk. He is durable enough to survive a strike from Thor that can penetrate a celestial’s armor. He never tires and does not need food, nor oxygen. He has been shown to wield buildings as weapons while WEAKENED. Cyttorak has blessed him with almost complete invincibility. Once he starts moving, no force can stop him. Kharn could come back from death over and over and he’d never be able to even scratch Juggernaut. Khorne would probably want to add Juggernaut to his legions, but he’d get declined with a big red fist to the face. Cyttorak is the way to go.

    If you’re a TL:DR kind of person, Juggernaut wins.

  4. EnigmaJ March 17, 2009 at 10:07 am -      #4

    Wow! This fight would be amazing!

    I think it would eventually come down to whos stronger. Khorne or the Cttyorak

  5. Thepocalypse March 17, 2009 at 1:53 pm -      #5

    “kharn is just 2 good juggernaught only has strength but lets see how strong he is wen kharn chops off his arms and legs”
    I’d like to see him penetrate an invincible forcefield.

  6. Spellca March 17, 2009 at 2:06 pm -      #6

    Intresting scenario indeed.

    If Juggernaut can build up enough intertia then nothing…well…nearly nothing can stop him. I am not a big fan of Kharn which is most likely going to make my points bias but…Juggernaut’s arms and legs are not covered by his blessed armor but his god-like muscle mass would make them more like his armor. I don’t see an axe, hook or sword cutting through those tree-trunk thick biceps anytime soon. It might take the strength of a really pissed off Hulk to even sway an onrushing Juggernaut but I don’t see his challenger winning this round.

  7. Vavle March 17, 2009 at 2:34 pm -      #7

    “If Juggernaut can build up enough intertia then nothing…well…nearly nothing can stop him. I am not a big fan of Kharn which is most likely going to make my points bias but…Juggernaut’s arms and legs are not covered by his blessed armor but his god-like muscle mass would make them more like his armor. I don’t see an axe, hook or sword cutting through those tree-trunk thick biceps anytime soon. It might take the strength of a really pissed off Hulk to even sway an onrushing Juggernaut but I don’t see his challenger winning this round”

    Kharn never misses his target, and his axe is not a regular, it’s the legendery Gorechild, which can tear apart the toughest materials in w40k.

  8. EnigmaJ March 17, 2009 at 3:45 pm -      #8

    Hey, heres a thought…

    Would Khorne even allow Juggernaut to have his invincibility. Its somewhat “magical”

  9. Spellca March 17, 2009 at 4:17 pm -      #9

    “Kharn never misses his target, and his axe is not a regular, it’s the legendery Gorechild, which can tear apart the toughest materials in w40k.”

    Now…that I didn’t know. See…I told you it would be bias. XD But…a missing arm might not allow Juggernaut to stop. And his armor might block this “magical axe”. This is the great thing about “Fantasy Fights” it is all speculation.

  10. marche March 17, 2009 at 4:40 pm -      #10

    Cyttorak is an immensly powerful being,to do that he would need to destroy the gem.

  11. marche March 17, 2009 at 4:44 pm -      #11

    oh,i forgot servering his connection to the mystical realm,but unless one of kharns buffs includes that its out of the question.

  12. kano547 March 17, 2009 at 11:31 pm -      #12

    wow this is going to be a very destructive fight i wonder how many worlds will get wiped out in this fight as to who will win it all comes down to can gorechild hurt jugg?

  13. Space marine March 18, 2009 at 3:32 am -      #13

    Just so you know, Kharn has magic Nullifiying abilities. And I have no doubt about how Gorechild will slice the jugg up.

  14. Thepocalypse March 18, 2009 at 6:05 am -      #14

    “Kharn never misses his target, and his axe is not a regular, it’s the legendery Gorechild, which can tear apart the toughest materials in w40k.”
    It’ll hit. But it’ll have the same effect as throwing a toothpick.

  15. Matapiojo March 18, 2009 at 6:20 am -      #15

    “can gorechild hurt jugg?”

    That is indeed the question.

    I know that Gorechild is mighty enough to hurt even the Hulk (before he gets too mad, of course), but I cannot trully say the same for ‘ol Juggs.

    That said.

    I also dont know how the Blessing of Khorne might affect the fight. We all know that Khorne thinks magic is a big “no no”. Jugg’s entire power might be done away with…

    …well. That might just wishful thinking from a biased fan, hehehehe

  16. kano547 March 18, 2009 at 3:38 pm -      #16

    but isnt juggs strength and invulnerability part of his mutant traits not magic?

  17. kano547 March 18, 2009 at 3:44 pm -      #17

    whoops i take back what i just said i just rememberd he found that diemond in the tomb right?

  18. EnigmaJ March 18, 2009 at 6:45 pm -      #18

    Yea. Juggernaut is not your typical mutant. Similar to Spider-Man, he’s a MUTATE. He acquired his powers by some other means. ( The Gem of the Cttyorak )

  19. kano547 March 19, 2009 at 3:42 am -      #19

    so that would be concidered magic strength,and because of that the(for lack of a better term)anti-magic field around kharne would take that away unless the other gad was stronger but it still comes down to can gorechild hurt the juggernaut.if not this will be a good fist fight where i dont have a clue who would win.but if gorechild can hurt him this match will be over very quickly with kharn the victor.

    as spellca said its all speculation but i think i’ll put my money on kharn for sheer brutality

  20. Matapiojo March 19, 2009 at 3:11 pm -      #20

    What I meant was wishful thinking in my post above is that so far we have only seen magic nullification by Khorne’s Blessin when the spell/power targets his champion. As the magic that Juggs brings to the match is within himself, I am unsure that it would be dissipated.

    That said, Kharn’s battle rage might grant him enough strength to match (perhaps surpass) Juggs. Magic or no, the fight its still tough to decide without a healthy dose of speculation.

  21. kano547 March 19, 2009 at 4:38 pm -      #21

    “What I meant was wishful thinking in my post above is that so far we have only seen magic nullification by Khorne’s Blessin when the spell/power targets his champion. As the magic that Juggs brings to the match is within himself, I am unsure that it would be dissipated”
    and now it turns back into kharn vs link where we were debating whether the fierce deity mask would work or would kharn cancel it out . but as i said above i would bet on kharn because jugg is lawful evil but kharn is…….wait i dont think batshit crazy is an alighnment’ but that could just mean kharn is above petty things like that

  22. Thepocalypse March 19, 2009 at 6:18 pm -      #22

    Cytorrak is too powerful for Khorne to simply nullify his power, remember that in a scenario with other gods, Khorne is not in control.

  23. Matapiojo March 20, 2009 at 7:31 am -      #23

    “and now it turns back into kharn vs link where we were debating whether the fierce deity mask would work or would kharn cancel it out .”

    If I recall correctly, that was never an argument. In fact, the inclusion of the Fierce Deity mask was the only way Link was capable of even coming close to not being obliterated in mere seconds. Sure, the magic bolts wouldn’t work, but the effects granted onto Link by the powerful item were not in question…

    Neither are the gem’s effect on Marko here. I merely stated that inquiry as a point of amusement. In truth, I dont think Kharn can harm Juggs, and Marko can’t permanently kill Kharn. At least not for a very long while.

    The absolute only possibility for this match to be decided by one of the two combatants is that the battle rage of Kharn could give him enough strength to beat Juggs to a pulp just like Onslaught did to silence the brute.

    Again, this is mainly speculatory.

  24. kano547 March 21, 2009 at 4:07 am -      #24

    so mata are you saying that the madderkharn gets/the more times he dies, makes kharn stronger? if so i think ill check out the kharn vs hulk fight again with new info on him

  25. Thepocalypse March 21, 2009 at 8:18 am -      #25

    “so mata are you saying that the madderkharn gets/the more times he dies, makes kharn stronger?”
    His bloodlust will make him stronger every time he half dies.

  26. Matapiojo March 21, 2009 at 8:36 am -      #26

    That info is indeed in the Kharn vs Hulk match.

    Kharn goes into a crazed Battle Rage and gains an effect that is similar to the Hulk’s, but it is nowhere near as exponential. Kharn does not gain strength with anger, he grows in power depending on how fierce is the battle he is engaged in.

    In the short story The Wrath of Kharn, we see The Betrayer in one such battle rage when engaged with a number of his Berzerker brethren. Quite impressive, but nowhere near Hulk’s level of infinite growth.

    Again, be aware that it is not due to his anger. You don’t simply throw a rock at Kharn and he suddenly can break a world appart. This is a process that must escalate appropriately with the foe at hand.

    Given how Juggernaut is pretty much at the peak of his abilities (incredibly high as they are), Kharn can possibly surpass that peak in theory as the catastrophic match develops.

    Once the World Eater decides the armored skull of Cain Marko is worthy of adorning the Throne of Skulls, he will not stop until his father gets the prize.

  27. Space marine March 21, 2009 at 10:32 am -      #27

    the more times he dies, makes kharn stronger?
    God DAMN! Kharn has only died once (Maybe) and has never been close to dying since. The more he decapitates the stronger he gets.

  28. kano547 March 22, 2009 at 11:23 am -      #28

    ok thank you for clearing that up. my last post on this fight. i think kharn would win mostly because he is relentless and would wear jugg down until he could rip his head off

  29. Thepocalypse March 22, 2009 at 12:37 pm -      #29

    “he is relentless and would wear jugg down until he could rip his head off”
    The Juggernaut doesn’t get tired, nor does he become more vulnerable after a long battle. He just keeps coming.

  30. Space marine March 22, 2009 at 4:38 pm -      #30

    “Cytorrak is too powerful for Khorne to simply nullify his power”
    Can you back that up?

  31. Space marine March 22, 2009 at 4:57 pm -      #31

    Juggernaut is a magical avatar of the supernatural entity Cyttorak; he gained superhuman powers through the transference of mystical energies from Cyttorak via a magical gemstone, the Ruby of Cyttorak. (Because of his association with the X-Men, Juggernaut is often mistakenly labeled a mutant.)

    This means that he is Not a mutant so that just demolishes EnigmaJ statement of him being a Mutant.

    The ruby bonds to his soul and alters his being, a scale of power rivaling that of Thor, the Hulk, and the Thing.

    Guess what?

    No magic!
    And Kharns Gorechild Can rip through Admantanium. In fact, It goes through so much admantanium because of other space marines and dreadnoughts. I think it will bring Juggs low.

    And just on a side note, Khorne Owns Cyttorak.

  32. Space marine March 22, 2009 at 5:00 pm -      #32

    Oh damn, Cut my comment short, Gorechild also has Soul drinking properties that Will take juggs power away from him.
    So if Kharn hits Juggs then BOOM! No more soul for the ruby to be attached to his soul and No more power for juggs.

    I just impressed myself. *_*

  33. EnigmaJ March 22, 2009 at 5:33 pm -      #33

    “This means that he is Not a mutant so that just demolishes EnigmaJ statement of him being a Mutant.”

    Demolishes… what…. what exactly did you demolish?

    EnigmaJ: Yea. Juggernaut is not your typical mutant. Similar to Spider-Man, he’s a MUTATE. He acquired his powers by some other means. ( The Gem of the Cttyorak )

    1) I clearly stated that he was a mutate, not a mutant. Meaning that he was not born with his “abnormaility” but obtained through some other means at some point during his life.

    2) I never argued on the side of Kharne… or Juggernaut for that matter…

  34. Thepocalypse March 22, 2009 at 5:44 pm -      #34

    Answer to everything Space Marine said:
    1. We don’t know enough about Cytorrak for you to make those assumptions.
    2. Try hitting someone through an invulnerable forcefield. Adamantium can’t even weaken it.

  35. Space marine March 22, 2009 at 8:35 pm -      #35

    We don’t know enough about Cytorrak for you to make those assumptions.

    If Cytorrak can be beaten by Jugg then Khorn Will WTFPWN him Nothing can defeat Khorne, Nothing, His force field only covers his body, So hitting him on the arm will take away all his powers.

    Oh and Khorn has the e on the end not Kharn…;)

  36. marche March 22, 2009 at 10:03 pm -      #36

    juggernaut doesnt need flesh and bone,his hate can keep him going as a skeleton.
    also since when does it only cover his body.

  37. marche March 22, 2009 at 10:26 pm -      #37

    i meant flesh and tissue.

  38. Space marine March 22, 2009 at 11:32 pm -      #38

    Oh and Khorn has the e on the end not Kharn…;)

    lol

  39. El Zilcho March 23, 2009 at 2:11 am -      #39

    “In fact, It goes through so much admantanium because of other space marines and dreadnoughts”

    Don’t know if you were referring to Space Marine power armour, but that stuff is made out of Ceramite, which is no where near as strong as adamantium.

    The only other way I can see this ending (Speculation alert) is that if Kharn dies enough times, Khorne might see him as a failure and decide not to resurrect him.

  40. Thepocalypse March 23, 2009 at 5:15 am -      #40

    “If Cytorrak can be beaten by Jugg then Khorn Will WTFPWN him”
    As I recall, Juggernaut made a foolhardy attempt to attack his master which resulted in… nothing. Cytorrak was completely unharmed. He is completely invincible, has infinite mystic powers. He is capable of creating completely subservient life on a whim, as well.
    As for the Juggernaut, the force field protects him FULLY, not just his torso. If his arms were vulnerable, the X-Men would’ve hacked them off in battle long ago.
    All Juggernaut needs to do is build up speed and he can tear Kharn’s armor to shreds.
    Do you really think Kharn will win against a man who can go hand to hand with the Sorcerer Supreme?

  41. Space marine March 23, 2009 at 8:23 am -      #41

    Don’t know if you were referring to Space Marine power armour, but that stuff is made out of Ceramite, which is no where near as strong as adamantium.

    One, Drednaughts have admantanium Frames, So do space marines skeletons.

  42. Bhaal March 29, 2009 at 3:47 am -      #42

    Why is it that so many people think that Kharn is the end all be all of the 40K universe? He may have eons of battlefield experience and some cool wargear on his side but at the end of the day he’s still just another chaos marine, and as such he’s just not that tough.

    1) Gorechild, an archaic chain-axe forged of adamantiun and the teeth of mica dragons, is not magical, at all, ever.
    2) Chaos Armour, Power armour sealed by Khorn offering better protection than loyalist armours, also not magical, just power armour made of ceramite plates and sealed by Khorn.
    3) Collar of Khorn, DOESN”T AFFECT MAGIC, only psychic attacks.
    4) Plasma Pistol, think fireball, nuff siad.
    5) “Khorn’s Protection” Khorn knows a good thing when he sees it, he may protect his chosen but his favor is just as fickle as any other chaos gods and if his champions fall in combat than he may not think them worthy anymore. Just because he bailed Kharn out of trouble once before does not mean he’ll do it again.
    “Khorn does not care from where the blood flows, as long as it flows”

    I’m not trying to flame anyone and i’d like to start contributing to the talks, but there are alot of people who don’t play 40K or read the books and this kind of talk is giving them a messed up view of how strong these guys really are.

  43. Locutus April 1, 2009 at 4:18 am -      #43

    “He may have eons of battlefield experience and some cool wargear on his side but at the end of the day he’s still just another chaos marine”

    You already fail.

  44. Matapiojo April 4, 2009 at 9:49 am -      #44

    @Bhaal

    You are grossly missinformed. It seems to me that all your source of information is the Codex (whatever incarnation that may be). These books are hardly a fair representation of the universe’s canon.

    Yes, Kharn is not the mightiest marine to walk the worlds of 40K. In fact, there are several others within the same Chaos forces that surpass him in many aspects, but that does not take away the fact that he is the most efficient man-killing madman to roam the universe (and many other universes for that matter).

    He alone is credited with far more deaths throughout his career as a Space marine close combat specialist than pretty much any other being in 40k.

    Psychihc = Magic

    Please don’t try to argue that. The two are just pilled into the same bundle for the sake of game mechanics convenience.

    I urge you to visit the link below and be enlightened:
    BankGambling.com/forum/respect-threads/kharn-the-betrayer

  45. Bhaal April 5, 2009 at 3:50 am -      #45

    I’ve read the Wrath of Kharn, as well as many of the novels inspired by the game. I’ve been playing 40K for about ten years and have had a subscription to White Dwarf for about nine. I started playing as Chaos and (due to the ease of conversion) still use my army occasionaly. That being said I actually know quite a bit about the 40K universe, I’m well familiar with the characters, their backstories and their capabilities as well as the specifications/limitations of 40K technology.

    As I stated before Kharn is an exceptionally skilled combatant, but he’s not the best that the canon material has to offer, personally I’d like to see him go toe to toe with Abaddon (has that thread been done?)or Ghazgull. Space marines are very tough but the effect of the gene seed is no greater than that of the Super Soldier Serum (limit of human capacity) , if captain america can’t do it (similarly equiped) a space marine probably can’t either. I’ve never read or heard of anything stating that Kharn gets stronger through confrontation, if anything it seems like he just dedicates himself more fully to the fight. None of the canon material ever has him getting hit by a lascannon or plasma cannon, weapons known to be able to easily defeat power armour, instead opting to have him withstand hails of 40K equivelant ‘small arms fire’.

    I’ll capitulate that psychic powers are the equivalent of magic as it does draw it’s power from the warp, I knew that I was splitting hairs when I wrote that but I posted it anyway, I’ll try to not do that again. However the collar of Khorn still only affects ‘magic’ that targets the wearer, not abilities or effects on the wearers opponent. I’ll also admit that I played down his plasma pistol too, I know that the energy output of plasma weapony is measured in megajoulles and as such is far more damgerous that fire magical or not.

    I do use the codexes as source material as 40K is a table top game and the writers at games workshop have admitted that when writing and updating new codexes they basically don’t take the novels into consideration at all making the codexes the only consistant source of canon material. I will however take White Dwarf and novelizations into account when making posts, taking that into account I still don’t see how Kharn is even remotely capable of fighting an opponent with literally unlimited strength, stamina and virtuall invulnerability (Juggernaught, Hulk, Onslaught etc…), in fact Kharns inability to use psychic powers, juggs only exploitable weakness, is actually a handicap in this matchup.

    btw Locutus, at least Matapiojo had something relevant to say, simply stating that I fail is like burying your head in the sand. Espicially considering that my first post demonstrated that I have (at the bare minimun) a rudimentary understanding of the content matter. F-

  46. Space marine May 1, 2009 at 8:16 pm -      #46

    That is still not “Fluff”

  47. sangheli_special_ops_elite May 27, 2009 at 12:10 pm -      #47

    “magical axe”.

    you just insulted everything kharn stands for. khorn hates everything magic so if kharn even considered using magic khorn would banish him in an instant. His axe has a daemon in it come to think of it gorechild is an improoved bloodfeeder (daemon weapon)

  48. Kenny C. June 3, 2009 at 8:57 pm -      #48

    It all comes down to who’s god has more power and staying power.

    If thats the case-DRAW

    The two warriors would battle for endless hours until Kharn realizes he can’t kill the Hulk and retreats from the fight in frustration to kill everyone else on Earth and leave the Hulk on a smoulding planet.

  49. x on June 3, 2009 at 9:27 pm -      #49

    “The two warriors would battle for endless hours until Kharn realizes he can’t kill the Hulk and retreats from the fight in frustration to kill everyone else on Earth and leave the Hulk on a smoulding planet.”

    Dude it’s the Juggernaut not Hulk.

  50. Kenny C. June 6, 2009 at 10:53 pm -      #50

    Whoops wrong thread. SORRY

    Still… same thing applies.

  51. Jwlynas June 7, 2009 at 4:23 am -      #51

    Why do people keep saying Khorne hates magic…

    Its true that he despises the idea of a mage, flinging magical bolts at an enemy from afar, but that doesn’t mean he hates magic. Khorne has been known to craft Magical weapons and armour, and his champions regularly use magical equipment to aid them in a fight. As do the opponents. Khorne hates using magic to end a fight from afar without bloodshed. Or have you all forgotten the main creed.

    “Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, so long as it does”

    As for this match, I’ve stated elsewhere that I think Kharn can wipe the floor with Juggs.

    An aura of invincibilty, no-one in 40K has one of those. Except Chaplains, Daemons, Chapter Masters, Tzeentchian Champions, Eldar Farseers… I’m not just talking TT rules either. Tzeentchian champions and Elder Farseers can read the strands of fate and guide them. Kharn still kills them with ease. Daemons are nigh immune to mortal fire being constructed from the very warp itself. Orks tend to survive decapitations. All these, Kharn has survived, and defeated. Especially the daemons.

    Gorechild has been “retconned” from being merely a large axe with dragonsteeth to being at the very least a weapon fit for a primarch to wield. A Primarch that became a daemon Prince. So Gorechild will have some extra power afforded to it. rules-wise, and rukles tend to be on the conservative side, Gorechild can tear a hole through a titan, extra layers, shields and all.

    This said, Juggernaut is impressive too. I just don’t see how “Blessed by a god” trumps “Blessed by a God”. Khorne blesses Kharn, gives him extra strength, speed and armour. Cytorrak blessed juggs for much the same.

    Kharn is more skilled.

  52. EnigmaJ June 10, 2009 at 6:37 pm -      #52

    ***just don’t see how “Blessed by a god” trumps “Blessed by a God”.***

    Just wondering Jwlynas, did you capitalize “god” the second time you made that statement to make a point?

  53. Kenny C. June 14, 2009 at 8:30 pm -      #53

    @ EnjgmaJ and Jwltnas

    So Khorne is the Christian God……

    I KNEW IT!

  54. Query August 13, 2009 at 6:43 pm -      #54

    LOL it’s like that paradox: “What happens when an immovable object meets an unstoppable force?” I tried roleplaying this fight, but it died down, because we were in a chatbox. In a forum thread, it may have turned out better. I agree that Juggernaut would win, for many of the aforementioned reasons. All of Kharn’s abilities are tech and strength, right? Juggernaut is a mutant. His unstoppable ability is all himself, not his armor. His armor is just so he can’t have his mind read. Kharn’s armor would eventually wear out, his weapon would erode, and Juggernaut would tear him limb from limb. I would love to see this fight.

  55. Jwlynas August 13, 2009 at 8:18 pm -      #55

    “Juggernaut is a mutant. His unstoppable ability is all himself, not his armor.”

    Has his backstory changed again? I thought that was Alternate/Unlimited Universe Juggernaut.

    I admit no small amount of fanboyism here. My most favourite character of my Patron God in 40K, but from what i see, and from what is said of Kharn here and there, the only difference between Kharn and Juggernaut is that Kharn has an axe and a couple of thousand years more battle experience.

    Big Red Armour – Check

    Angry beyond reason – Check

    Enhanced strength beyond the ‘ken of mortal man – Check

    Damn near Impossible to put down in a fight? – Check

    Resistant/down right immune to magic/psychics due to Gods Blessing – Check

    Kharn is a lot faster (We can agree to that at least, yes?) and more skilled (again, we can agree to that, yes?)

    “Do you really think Kharn will win against a man who can go hand to hand with the Sorcerer Supreme?”

    I don’t know… Would juggernaut be able to go toe to toe with Ahriman of the Thousand Sons? Because Kharn could without breaking a sweat thanks to the collar of Khorne. Its all relative.

    Deadpool has beaten juggernaut before now. Repeatedly if memory serves. Is he stronger? Not by a long shot, but he is more skilled and faster. Kharn is much more skilled and much faster.

    “Just wondering Jwlynas, did you capitalize “god” the second time you made that statement to make a point?”

    No, thats my crapness with grammar kicking in. or was it mysterious powers at work… *Cue The Twilight Zone*

  56. Whacko December 8, 2009 at 1:06 pm -      #56

    I dunno about this really. As usual in stale fights involving Kharn, however, i give it to Kharn by virtue of a weapon that cuts anything and everything before ripping out your soul and place it on Khornes table during dinner. Not nice.

    Other than that, no winner. I can’t see Jugger even hitting Kharn all that much. Kharn is mad, but he does evade relly hard blows. And jugger isn’t fast enough.

  57. RAWRR February 17, 2010 at 7:32 pm -      #57

    i have really i am not to knowledgeable about kharn or whatever but from what i’ve read and know about the juggernaut it sounds like a stalemate really because from what i know from juggs fights with the x-men hulk, spiderman and others he is invincible from what i can tell 24/7 he can withstand wolverines adamantium claws without some much budging or getting cut.only thing I’ve seen that affects really is when his helmet is off and had psychic powers used against him which really didn’t harm just fucked with his memory so it really didn’t seem to hurt him. rogue could not absorb the entirety of his power didn’t even seem like she got close which she seemed to go ballistic when she did attempt it. then you have the unlimited or seemly unlimited strength to look . now then again i look at everything yall said about kharn and i mean i know of him but i don’t know to much but he seems like an immensely powerful being himself. only difference maker i have seen really didn’t seem like one from what y’all have said because supposedly kharn gets stronger everytime he dies or almost dies something like that is the difference maker. which isn’t much if your just a skilled enough fighter and your powerful enough NOT to get hit much or can take a beating. So from what i’ve read and know it is pretty much a stalemate my opinion. but then again i don’t know much about kharn and no one really knows the juggernauts limits. so ehhhh.

  58. TheSorrow February 17, 2010 at 10:32 pm -      #58

    Epic fight is epic. I don’t care who would win (<..> Kharn), probably the most intense fight I have seen on BankGambling. If only we had some way to make fight simulations like Deadliest Warrior.

  59. Jwlynas February 17, 2010 at 10:40 pm -      #59

    I attempted to type that last paragraph into some sort of coherent semblance but my brain melted half way through and I had to reboot my sanity.

    However, uncalled for rudeness aside, you make some good points. Well, potentially anyway. I’m not sure Kharn gets stronger after he “dies”, indeed its probably that, for a while at least, he’s weak as a kitten (ok, maybe a tiger cub…) as he heals up.

    And Juggernaut is one of those guys who just refuses to lie down. All comes dwon to stopping his momentum and being able to survive a couple of hits. Kharn could take hits, unarmoured, from Angron, who was the strongest of Primarchs. This is comparable to someone taking a beating from an actively trying to hurt them, baseline strength Hulk and living.

    Kharn now has far better armour, far better strength, far better weapons… Its a hard match to call, but Kharn has one advantage. His weapon is more than likely able to penetrate Juggernauts exposed skin if nothing else. The armour, perhaps not, but the rest of his is fair game. regeneration aside, its very hard to fight someone when you don’t have arms.

  60. Kenny C. February 17, 2010 at 11:10 pm -      #60

    It would be much more likely that the world that they’re on eventually collapses from the sheer amount of awesomeness occuring on the surface.

    I do say that Kharn’s speed and axe is the crux of this fight, but you have to admit that the Juggernaut does indeed have his own pro’s here and there.

    I think it would be a draw, but if I had to chose in a pinch…. Kharn. He’s lived ten thousand years in the most brutal universe ever convinced for a reason.

  61. Jwlynas February 17, 2010 at 11:35 pm -      #61

    Type your message here…

  62. Jwlynas February 17, 2010 at 11:37 pm -      #62

    …Fantastic…

    Ahem, ignoring that last post (any way we can get those things deleted? Admin?), I’d never say juggernaut hasn’t got a few advantages of his own. He’s a damn sight more durable than Kharn, and I’m pretty sure he’s stronger. just not so much stronger or durable that he’d be able to shrug off Kharns attacks, which is how bruisers usually beat speedsters.

    Kharns strong enough, and has the Gorechild,. He’d be able to seriously hurt Jugger while staying away from any serious blows, and it’ll take more than a couple of glancing hits to put Kharn down.

    A close match though, no doubt

  63. Kenny C. February 17, 2010 at 11:38 pm -      #63

    @ Da J

    Who can deny that logic!

  64. midnite marauder February 18, 2010 at 12:22 am -      #64

    Seeing as how Juggernaut has taken full on blasts from Cyclops with out being fazed I think I’ll go with him for the eventual win.

  65. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 2:13 am -      #65

    Well, Cyclopd id the guy with the laser beams, isn’t he? Those laser have been compared to Lascannons on this site before, and if the power is anywhere near the same, Gorechild is far more destructive.

  66. Asger February 18, 2010 at 5:18 am -      #66

    Don’t really know about Kharn, but Juggy is arguably one of the strongest beings on the Marvel Earth, the only X-Man to match the Green Scar Hulk in combat (And the only X-Man that Hulk didn’t defeat). So if Kharn can come close to that power…

    Epic match is epic…

  67. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 9:01 am -      #67

    Kharn is no match in strength or durability, but he’s hella fast and with Gorechild he can make a mess of just about anything. Jugger’s exposed parts should be easy enough to take out. The armored parts are so friggin tough he might need a few swings or allocate a fe secs to get through.

  68. Asger February 18, 2010 at 9:14 am -      #68

    “Kharn is no match in strength or durability”

    Oh. That’s not good for Kharn.

    ” but he’s hella fast and with Gorechild he can make a mess of just about anything. ”

    Good thing Juggy has some powerful regeneration then.

    “The armored parts are so friggin tough he might need a few swings or allocate a fe secs to get through.”

    Underestimating the armour a wee bit there. And Kharn also has Juggs’ personal force-field to worry about.

  69. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 9:27 am -      #69

    Gorechild cuts everything from magic to fircefields to tanks to 5 meter thick adamantium gates. It’s good.

  70. Asger February 18, 2010 at 9:33 am -      #70

    Is Gorechild magic? Because magic and mental attacks are really the only thing that can phase the Juggernaut.

  71. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 9:39 am -      #71

    Yes, it’s magical. Wether it’s just blessed or if it’s a daemon weapon i’m not sure though. It’s been stated not to be a daemon weapon before, but later material are sometimes more vague. Still it’s magical, blessed by the Blood God in some way. If it’s not there’s a good bit of fluff that have escaped me. I might alos add that it has soul-draining properties, but i wouldn’t count on them against Jugger. I mean, his soul is pretty much Cyttorak’s, so stealing it is probably not straightforward.

  72. Jwlynas February 18, 2010 at 9:40 am -      #72

    “Is Gorechild magic?”

    Matter of controversy there really. Some state it to be a very powerful, soul-drinking power axe.

    Some of us say its not even a Power Axe, much less daemonic, its just sodding sharp, heavy, and wielded by someone whose had thousands of years of practice to get used to its weight and fighting in general.

  73. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 9:42 am -      #73

    If there’s no special properties to Gorechild, Kharn would have to be godly to wreak as much havoc as he does.

  74. Jwlynas February 18, 2010 at 9:48 am -      #74

    When was it blessed by the Blood God?

    Lets put Wrath of Kharn aside for a second, partly for poor writing, partly because the author is a man who writes fluff rather than pays attention to it. . Where else has it been mentioned to have any sort of magical properties?

    As I recall, its just a huge axe with the teeth of a Mica dragon for blades along its chainsaw edge. Able to split a man in half down the middle, even while wearing power armour, absolutely, because its masterfully mad, but blessed by the Blood God? its been around in the World bearer/War Hound chapter far longer than Khorne’s influence.

    has it been shown as magical while wielded by Angron somewhere? I havent’ read many of the Heresy Books so that could be the case.

  75. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 10:13 am -      #75

    Where? Ehrm…dunno? It’s really a very long time since i’ve read about it, and when you consider the insane things it does i’ve just never had any reason not to believe it or try to find out more. But now that you mention it, there’s not too many sources mentioning magic.

  76. midnite marauder February 18, 2010 at 10:37 am -      #76

    Whacko did you just say that Cyclop’s beam is a laser? Well no your wrong. Cyclop’s optic beam is electromagnetic radiation with enough concussive force to level mountains and perhaps blow clean through this planet if my memory serves. Lascannon deez nuts.

    Furthermore Juggernaut can only be hurt by extremely powerful magic or mental attacks which both of which Kharne lacks so I fail to see what he can do to even slow Juggs once he gets moving.

  77. Asger February 18, 2010 at 10:51 am -      #77

    If it’s not magic then Kharn can’t do anything to harm Juggernaut. At all.

    All he can do is tire himself out, and when that happens Juggs backhands Kharn into space.

  78. midnite marauder February 18, 2010 at 11:00 am -      #78

    And even if it was magic how powerful is that magic? Its not like you can take a stick, sprinkle some fairie dust on it, and all of a sudden you can defeat the power of Cytorak. That thing needs to be comparable to the magic of the Sorcerer Supreme to even begin to damage that forcefield.

  79. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 11:02 am -      #79

    Well, I did call it a laser and I compared it to a Lascannon due to infi found in another match. I’m not into Marvel, so i don’t have specifics for the lot of them, just a good impression of general abilities. With Cyclops, I haven’t any info at all. He might be a DC guy for all I know.

    And no magic = no damage? In that case, this is bad. Especially since none of the fighters tire. Kharn might, but he’ll need a couple of days to really slow down.

  80. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 11:05 am -      #80

    midnite, if Gorechild is blessed, that would be by Khorne. Khorne is hella strong, and is pretty awesome at nullifying other’s magics. If it’s magic that allows for his feats, it’s of a pretty awesome calibre.

  81. midnite marauder February 18, 2010 at 11:18 am -      #81

    Even if it is blessed by Khorne himself I still have my doubts about him defeating Juggernaut. The Juggernaut has kept fighting even while reduced to a skeleton powered only by his hate and was still kicking ass. He is comparable in strength to the hulk and has never been KOed by any of of the strongest in Marvel except for when he was cut off from his power by Thor. The Juggernaut is liable to beat Kharne to death with a building.

    I say Juggs wins via the two charging each other with (kharne not knowing that once Juggs is in motion nothing but a pissed off hulk has a chance of stopping him) and Kharne hits him head on only to get his armour shattered and himself knocked to the ground with Juggs towering over him. Then Juggs proceeds to stomp him until he resembles tomato soup. The End.

  82. EnigmaJ February 18, 2010 at 11:21 am -      #82

    “And no magic = no damage?”

    Well yeah, basically. Juggernaut is pretty much immune to any and all physical damage thanks to the Cyttorak’s protection. The only thing that could get through this protection is mental and magical attacks, but they still need to be powerful enough to take him out.

    Though what also needs to be remembered that it’s the being known as the Cyttorak that grants him this immunity. If Khorne deems this blessing as magical and unfair, he may strip Juggernaut of this ability ( apparently he does this a lot ). Though this depends on whether Khorne cares, whether this counts as extra help, and whether Khorne is stronger than the Cyttorak. Just saying.

  83. Belisaurius February 18, 2010 at 11:38 am -      #83

    The thing with 40k is that the more notoriety a weapon gets, the greater presence it has in the warp. Therefore, it may be extraordinately powerful by the fact it was weilded by a primarch.

  84. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 11:40 am -      #84

    Khorne won’t do that. The only magics Khorne despises are spells you cast. Magical weapons or items that power you up are just fine, they make the fight better after all. The thing that MAY happen is that Khorne won’t stand a god that grants immunity to the bloody close combat he loves. In that case it won’t be Jugger vs Kharn, but Cyttorak vs Khorne.

  85. Belisaurius February 18, 2010 at 12:07 pm -      #85

    @Whacko

    Considering that the very act of fighting is power for Khorn, I think I know who to bet on.

  86. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 12:26 pm -      #86

    That’s another fight entirely, and I know few gods below the omnipotent mark that could stand up to Khorne. When you are powered by hate, killing and fighting, it is very beneficial to get into a god vs god fight. Still, all I know about Cyttorak is that he powers Jugger and that he has rather different tastes than Khorne. Jugger’s shield makes physical blows ineffective, while leaving him open to magic and mindfuckery. Kharn’s shield stops such cowardly acts while putting no dampner on the greatness of a lethal close combat. I prefer Khorne.

  87. Asger February 18, 2010 at 12:30 pm -      #87

    So, unless there’s some startling revalation that Gorechild is the ultimate magic-powered weapon it’s safe to say Jugg wins.

  88. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 12:45 pm -      #88

    Well, such a revelation wouldn’t be startling in any way considering just how ridiculously powerful it is. And I really don’t remember if Kharn tires slow, like other marines, or if he’s reached the never tire at all mark.

    In the end, Jugger is most probably the best candidate for a win. He’d get owned in kill count or anti magic at least.

  89. Belisaurius February 18, 2010 at 12:48 pm -      #89

    @Asger
    Between being blessed by a god of war, and being crafted by a demi-god. Gorechild has sizable warp presence. not only is it a material chain axe, it’s a spiritual chain axe.

  90. Skrunks February 18, 2010 at 12:51 pm -      #90

    “So, unless there’s some startling revalation that Gorechild is the ultimate magic-powered weapon it’s safe to say Jugg wins.”

    Absoluetly Juggenaught wins.

    I’m surprised this actually needed to be discussed. Juggernaught can tank planet busting attacks, literally. Thor’s Godblast hardly even slowed him down and he beat the god into a bloody pulp. Juggernaught is a monster. Kharn is faster, no doubt, but Juggernaught is… well Juggernaught.

    Last I checked, Kharn wasn’t a planet buster, as such he has no where near the juice to take Juggs down.

  91. MEGADOOMER February 18, 2010 at 12:58 pm -      #91

    Wolverines adamantium claws never cut Juggernaut have they? Because if they can’t, nothing can. Cyttorak Makes Juggs invincible. So Juggs wins.

  92. Asger February 18, 2010 at 1:02 pm -      #92

    @Bellisaurius: I thought Gorechilds magical nature was a matter of debate. At least according to Jwlynas..

  93. midnite marauder February 18, 2010 at 1:02 pm -      #93

    I’m with Skrunks here in saying I don’t know how this match went this far. Its like they’re blatantly saying that a man that can tank hits from the likes of Thor, The Hulk, and Onslaught without a scratch can be defeated by a guy with an axe. Now I’m not saying Kharne is weak. Far from it cause what I heard he’s one of the best 40k has to offer. However he’s nothing compared to the power that Marvel can bring to the table.

  94. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 1:07 pm -      #94

    Planet busting power isn’t needed if you can cut cleanly enough with a magical weapon. But since that magical nature seems contested, and soul draining is a rather fat chance against a man already claimed by a deity, Jugger should win.

  95. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 1:08 pm -      #95

    “Wolverines adamantium claws never cut Juggernaut have they? Because if they can’t, nothing can. Cyttorak Makes Juggs invincible. So Juggs wins.”

    I beg to differ, Gorechild is way more destructive than Wolvie’s claws.

  96. Jwlynas February 18, 2010 at 1:16 pm -      #96

    Few things to consider of course.

    1. Current Incarnation. Not the one who survived being skeletonised, who was far from base level Juggernaut. (Or so its been stated

    2. Even when he was at such a level that reducing him to a skeleton and armour didn’t stop him, he was reduced to said skeleton. This suggests the guy can be physically reduced to nothing, even if the skeleton itself proves difficult. Since he doesn’t have those ridiculous adamantium chains that wolverine does holding his bones together, enough force in the right area can and will sever his arms.
    That would be a serious disadvantage.

    Kharn is faster. no-ones disputed this. Kharn is a better fighter, no-one has disputed this. The Gorechild, for all that its “mundane” is still one of the most absurdly powerful weapons in that lore. Made of Adamantium and monomolecular dragons teeth (I don’t know how that works either. Rule of awesome I presume). To me, that it could hurt Juggernaut is not up for question. He usually deals with blunt force trauma, ala Thor, Hulk and Thing, how does he deal with sharpness?

    Juggernaut is stronger and more durable. I’ll accept that, and again i think everyone else does.

    Can Juggernaut survive with no arms and serious bleeding in his current incarnation? And could Kharn’s needlessly sharp weapon cut throygh juggernauts skin, even if we allow for indestructable (i’m sure that word isn’t allowed on this site) armour?

    Therein lies the question.

  97. Asger February 18, 2010 at 1:22 pm -      #97

    Again, unless it’s magic it’s not even getting through the force-field. Unless it’s magic it’s not getting through his armour. Assuming he can get through that and remove his arm (Which I’m doubtful of) Juggernaut still has some powerful regeneration.

  98. Whacko February 18, 2010 at 1:24 pm -      #98

    Regarding Gorechild, has it failed to cut something in fluff? In game terms most anything barring Monoliths can be brought down, but I can’t seem to remember any incident where Gorechild failed.

  99. Jwlynas February 18, 2010 at 1:30 pm -      #99

    Its funny, Kharn is basically equipped with a nimble chainfist. FLuff is rare to find, but the only times its been wielded are by Angron (and no, nothing resists when that guy swings, no matter what he’s swinging. He could beat Thor down with a rubber duck if it came to it though thats a match for another day) and by Kharn in the days of the 41st millenia. Sadly, they rarely show him cutting anything impressive. Men generally.

    the only time he does cut something impressive (A huge, demi-god-powered gem of sorts…) is in Wrath of Kharn. And the Canonicity is in question. also, in that he has a daemonic Gorechild…

    I don’t know, if we take that as canon then he’s magical enough. If not, he’s doomed.

    Votes?

  100. Asger February 18, 2010 at 1:32 pm -      #100

    If it’s monomolecular as I’ve heard, then that would explain it’s ability to cut through seemingly anything.

    Monomolecular weapons in fiction are capable of cutting through anything. Not sure on the science, but I think it’s something to do with the molecular structure.

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