Epic.
This would make for one entertaining match. The amount of carnage that these two would inflict on each other would be tremendous. And it would take a while, but I think in the end Kharn would win…
What say you?
Kratos Vs Kharn
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wow this is pretty cool both are ruthless….kratos in wanting power.and kharn just for the sake of killing. i did like the god of war series but from the bit that i have abvout kharn he would win
Ah, Kratos, the PS3’s sickeningly overpowered flagship character. He cannot win. The mere fact that he is able to commit suicide proves he can be killed, and what better warrior to finish him than the disciple of a much greater god.
Gorechild would grind him up into less than dust.
If Kratos is still the god of war in this fight then I say he wins.
If Kratos dies, He’ll just pull himself out of hell, Angrier and stronger than before. And with his Godly Powers? He can’t lose.
and if kharn dies,khorne will revive him.stronger that ever(although that may be outside help considering it would invovle action from the god.)
“and if kharn dies,khorne will revive him.stronger that ever(although that may be outside help considering it would invovle action from the god.)”
Nope, we’ve surmised it’s okay to use Khorne. Just like MC gets Cortana.
Shame =(
They were working so well together…
Both characters are similar in many ways. But Kharn is millennia ahead of Kratos in both armour and weapons. And while being resurrected by another character may be a bit cheap in some ways, it has been allowed in every other fight so I don’t see why this is any different.
Blood of the Blood God. In this case, Kratos’ blood.
Blood for the Blood God**
Silly me
Not really, Kharn would never EVER get on with the likes of Kratos, The only thing that Kharn will get along with in the material world, Is gorechild. And that’s still a shaky relationship.
There is a BIG misconception (one that I may have been a part of in spreading) that Kharn’s blessing is equal to Khorne stepping in.
No.
The nature of the Blessing of Khorne is not trully known. It has been portrayed as an ethereal force always surrounding the Betrayer, not an invisible God-hand surrounding him. It is intangible, and as natural as breathing.
Kharn’s “resurection” is more of a he-just-gets-back-up power rather than a he-wait-till-daddy-stands-him-up. It is not a matter on an outside power intefering. This power is now as much part of Kharn as his hands are.
Now that that is out of the way, that argument is not necesary. Kratos will not even be close to killing Kharn. This is a man (if he could be called that) that has waged constant war agaist beings that Kratos could not even imagine, across an entire universe and even an outside daemonic dimension.
This man’s speed would match Kratos’ limited powers over time. His strength and weapon would put even the Golden Fleece at serious danger. His ferocity will overpower Kratos’ own a thousandfold.
Kratos might be the God of War on “earth”, but Kharn is the Champion of War for an entire universe. Kratos will simply grow tired of crawling out of the underworld repeatedly just to be met by a Gorechild swing that cleaves his skull in half…
…That is, of course, if the first hit did not decimate Kratos’ soul.
Plus Kharn would just go to the underworld and kick Kratos ass there.
I’d like to see Kratos try to crawl out of Khorne’s realm >.>
Ok, I think I get you. Kharn’s protection is more of a permanent buff then a constant shield that is upheld by Khorne. In this sense it’s no different from Link getting the magic meter or armored hearts.
@El Zilcho
Precisely. It pays to be the biggest Khornate “Priest” in the universe. This blessing is arguably even more absolute that the gift of Daemonhood many others have been granted. Angron himself (Primarch to Kharn and his superior in many ways) has been ascended to Daemonhood, yet he has “died”.
This is not real death as he is simply banished to the Warp for a hundred years, but Kharn has never been close to death after Khorne imparted him with his blessing.
Thats nothing to scoff at comming from a god that is comparable to Ares x1,000,000,000,000,000,000
i got nuthin……the amount of carnage and pure devastation these two would wreak on each other and the world around them blows my mind and renders me speachless
Kratos can’t do anything to Kharn.
“How can a rebellious Space Marine kill the God of War….”
We have state many times that Kharn is no regular Space Marine. Please do not make this statement again.
kharn survived extreme temperatures off negative 50 or somthing degrees at the battle that named him kharn the betrayer,he has a daemon living in his weapon and blessing of the blood god makes him imune to psyckick powers nothing more so its allowed kharn wasn’t revived by khorn he survived a blow that had 200% chance of killing him and it was assumed that khorn didn’t want to see kharn die or kharn was just too stuborn to die and the only reason khorn hasn’t made kharn a daemon prince is because he prooved to be stronger than one so making him one would make kharn weaker so now all those questions have been answered i think kharn kills everyone even samus and master chief combined
Well, In the even Kratos dies he can ascend fro hell, but if Kharn dies then Khorne will just pt him back on his feet. I am a massive fan of both of these characters, but in the end I’m thinking this will be a draw. Each side has a lot of carnage to offer.
My vote, is this battle will end in a draw!
Damn… two of mine favorite characters fighting eachother.
Oh well… I going with…. dammmmnnnn…
Kratos has magic and mad skills with his chain blades.
Kharn had Gorechild and his suit of armor.
In the end both are immortal in some way and brutal to the extreme.
Kharn for the win purely based on his armored suit… nothing else.
“Ah, Kratos, the PS3’s sickeningly overpowered flagship character.”
not really.
1. There isn’t a ps3 gow game out (YET, its on its way)
2. ps3s flgship character should obviously be SACKBOY.(or hale but more likely sackboy/person)
3. I know this has nothing to do with the debate in hand.
oh and I agree he is totally overpowered.
Kharn wins, Kratos loses, BankGambling award for Kharn.
kratos hands down
“kratos hands down”
OH NOOOOES! A person who comments like hotshot!!!
i would win hands down cuz all i half to do is take my wepons wrap them around his head and rip it off then it will be R.I.P. kharn!!!!!!!!
These are very similar characters from radically different universes. Kharn has a large advantage in speed(he sidesteps bullets) and defense(his futuristic power armor), and both are armed with immense strength and whirring chain weapons. Kratos has magic, but Kharn has a blessing that just may counteract it . . .
I’d say Kharn will take this if Kratos is fighting as a mortal. If he is acting as the God of War, however, nothing short of Khorne’s direct intervention will save Kharn from defeat.
Blessing of the Blood God makes Kharn immune to Psycic abilities, so Kratos’ magic wouldn’t even be a factor in this fight. Add in the plethora of advantages already listed only proves that its obvious: Kharn is the ultimate bamf in this situation, and he would win every time.
Magic isn’t a psychic ability?
Much as I’m often a big fanboy of Kharn, Kratos brings more to this match than people think. Ignore his magical skills, in mere combat he can destroy any other mortal, most demigods and, thus far, any god he’s faced. His chain-blades are impressive, but the sword of olympus would be more than capable of rending Kharns armour wide open.
Both of them come back from death, probably through sheer bloodlust and arrogant refusal to die.
I still vote for Kharn, but Kratos would be a worthy fight indeed. And given Khornes lust for carnage, I see no reason why he wouldn’t grant the same joy to Kratos as he would Kharn. Kratos is a man who rips off skulls with his bare hands.
Finally, one acknowledges Kratos’ mighty powers!
Kharn, solely because he’s a space marine in power armor because everything else cancels out.
Kratos has magic, and well he can kill gods, I’m pretty sure he’d win and khorne would switch sides not reviving kharn
No. Kratos is nothing, I repeat Nothing to Kharn. He is Faster, stronger, smarter…
Kratos’s blades would seriously just clang of Kharns armour like they did on those undead that had shields. Except, this shield will not break.
Not to mention the fact that Kharn is invulnerable to magic… so yeah.
@ZomBninjasamurai: Magic? Yeah, like that’ll ever work. Kharn is utterly immune to all magic, so that weapon is out. Apart from that, a single swipe from Gorechild and Kratos is dead. And Kharn won’t miss, he’s faster and haven’t missed once in 10.000 years. So, yeah, this one goes to the Blood God.
kratos is the god of war only kharn could win if he has the pandora’s box or the blade of olympus but no kratos still owning the blade of olympus and i think he will steal the pandora’s box again or just kratos become a giant and crush kharn
Despite everything Kratos can bring to the field…I’m not sure he can defeat Kharn – even in his god form.
“A brand new Spartan skull for the skull throne”
-Paladino-still a Chaos space Marine Wannabe.
As much as I’d like kharn to win, I think kratos wil take this one. Its no secret really, its all in the title,, GOD OF WAR!!!!! Kratos is the GOD almost every one in the entire 40k universe is living for!!!……. WAR
BUT KHARN STILL KICKS ASS
clyde_frog what are you talking about? Khorne is the god of war in 40k. And Kharn kick Kratos’ ass hard.
Kratos definetly has this one. Kharn is overrated and my last name is Khan (lol)
Who has a gun Kharn.
Should be fairly obvious who wins.
Technology was one of the reasons the greek gods died.
“Yeah, like that’ll ever work. Kharn is utterly immune to all magic, so that weapon is out.”
actually in BankGamblingtopia im pretty sure it was dicided that khorne didnt give a shit about magic embedded weapons, he just doesnt want you cheating by throwing fireballs all over the place and shit like that.
also this is a fallacy, a being more powerful then Khorne would be able to magic kharn up all day. like doctor strange for instance hed stomp kharn into the floor.
“actually in BankGamblingtopia im pretty sure it was dicided that khorne didnt give a shit about magic embedded weapons, he just doesnt want you cheating by throwing fireballs all over the place and shit like that.”
True enough. Magic weapons are allowed by Khorne, and indeed forged by him on occasion.
“also this is a fallacy, a being more powerful then Khorne would be able to magic kharn up all day. like doctor strange for instance hed stomp kharn into the floor.”
Well that depends on the nature of Magic. Khorne isn’t a magic user who blocks the powers of others, he is a God who has existed since before magic existed, brother to the God from whom all magic has been derived (The spells of the Warhammer univereses being infinitesimally small pieces of the power Tzeentch had before his brothers overthrew him eons ago)
He isn’t denying spells by overpowering them, he’s simply having their energies absorded and dispersed before they can effect anyone. Stephen Strange, as powerful as his magic is, would have to focus on buffing himself, and even then magic fails within Kharns immediate area.
Plus, Dr Strange more powerful than Khorne?
Interesting theory
“Plus, Dr Strange more powerful than Khorne?
Interesting theory”
If it can be called a theory at all…
Kratos just has this Kharn is powerful but he is overrated!
Kratos pulls out Blade of Olympus and shoves it up Kharn the Beatcockers ASS!
as soon as that…L1+Triangle boom!
Kharn
because he is awesome
“Kratos just has this Kharn is powerful but he is overrated!
Kratos pulls out Blade of Olympus and shoves it up Kharn the Beatcockers ASS!
as soon as that…L1+Triangle boom!”
That gave me a chuckle.
Plasma fire will have this thing over and done LONG before it gets to a close quarters brawl. Even then, Kharn is just way too fast for Kratos to even hope keeping up.
Gorechild eat Kratos soul
nuff said
KHARN win
“The mere fact that he is able to commit suicide proves he can be killed, and what better warrior to finish him than the disciple of a much greater god.”
First, he failed to commit suicide. Secondly, Kharn can die too. Yes, he can be revived (and Kratos can crawl out of the underworld) but for the sake of these debates one death is all any character gets if it means actually bringing them back to life.
“and if kharn dies,khorne will revive him.stronger that ever(although that may be outside help considering it would invovle action from the god.)”
That it would be.
“Nope, we’ve surmised it’s okay to use Khorne. Just like MC gets Cortana.”
Funny, MC does NOT get Cortana in debates. Where did you hear otherwise?
“But Kharn is millennia ahead of Kratos in both armour”
Technology=/= magical advancement.
“and weapons. ”
Both weapons forged by gods.
“And while being resurrected by another character may be a bit cheap in some ways, it has been allowed in every other fight so I don’t see why this is any different.”
Since when?
“This man’s speed would match Kratos’ limited powers over time. His strength and weapon would put even the Golden Fleece at serious danger. His ferocity will overpower Kratos’ own a thousandfold.”
Kratos does have a lightning speed feat and strength in the dozens of tons of lifting with questionably mortal durability.
The plasma pistol would be a problem though as I’m not sure there’s a comparable thing to it (aside from the sun itself) from the GoW universe.
“…That is, of course, if the first hit did not decimate Kratos’ soul.”
Proven in another debate to not actually be a function of gorechild.
“Kratos has magic, but Kharn has a blessing that just may counteract it ”
If the functions of said magic are comparable. Otherwise….no.
“He is Faster, stronger, smarter…”
Hasn’t been proven.
“clyde_frog what are you talking about? Khorne is the god of war in 40k. And Kharn kick Kratos’ ass hard.”
Kharn is the soldier of the 40k’s god of war. Pretty big difference. Kratos stands a chance against Kharn; he’d literally never touch Khorne.
“actually in BankGamblingtopia im pretty sure it was dicided that khorne didnt give a shit about magic embedded weapons, he just doesnt want you cheating by throwing fireballs all over the place and shit like that.”
This too. Otherwise Gorechild’s kind of against the rules too.
Melee it’s nowhere near as one sided as people like to think. And seeing how we can’t actually prove one of the lightning bolts hit Kratos (like in a cutscene) without damage there’s no comparison to the plasma pistol. But following CIS would Kharn use the pistol against Kratos if he’s got the whole “worthy opponent” thing down in a melee fight?
both were slaughterer, Powerful, etc and etc
so I say Khorne will take Kratos as his another champ
and put him with Kharn
“Plus, Dr Strange more powerful than Khorne?
Interesting theory”
Was at one point, currently im not sure.
“Plasma fire will have this thing over and done LONG before it gets to a close quarters brawl. Even then, Kharn is just way too fast for Kratos to even hope keeping up.”
How fast are these plasma rounds? and is there some reason why kratos cant golden fleece it?
How fast is Kharn?
also i have to lol at someone saying Kharn is flatout stronger then kratos without providing a quote to prove this especially since weve seen krato pull such BS strength feats such as not being crushed be 2 characters that can hold him between their fingers on of which carries a planet on his back.
im not saying kharn isnt beast, i just want kharn threads to be debates not wank fests full of this:
“No. Kratos is nothing, I repeat Nothing to Kharn. He is Faster, stronger, smarter…
Kratos’s blades would seriously just clang of Kharns armour like they did on those undead that had shields. Except, this shield will not break.”
notice the lack of actual references, just blank claims…..
@Dark:
Yes! HELP ME FIGHT THE WANK!!!
“This too. Otherwise Gorechild’s kind of against the rules too.”
Well, no, there’s nothing intrinsically magical about the Gorechild. its particularly well made fro rather exotic materials, and heavy as hell. Its only kharns sheer strength and speed that lets him use it, but Khorne hasn’t blessed it, as far as anyone can prove.
@Paladino
There can be only one…
Considering Kratos has a soul fu… I mean sucking weapon that is definately a rather steep advantage.Add on to that the fact Kharn’s under arms are not protected by future armor and the fact Kratos is rather strong that could spell disaster for Kharn unless he can pull a Black Knight and fight with no arms.
@Jw:
My bad. Misunderstood that one then.
Like we already know about all things 40k, concrete proof extrapolated from ambiguous references is not quite as easy as other things. Ill do my best later. Likely, next week.
“First, he failed to commit suicide. Secondly, Kharn can die too. Yes, he can be revived (and Kratos can crawl out of the underworld) but for the sake of these debates one death is all any character gets if it means actually bringing them back to life.”
Starting us off, no one can know this for certain, and any statements on either side regarding whether or not he could be killed will be pure conjecture at best.
What we know is that he went down, and his “lifeless” body was carried out of the assault on terra, then he came back. We don’t know that it was a “revival”. We dont know that he didn’t just collapse in a death-like comma only for his enhancements to heal him. We just don’t know.
Proof shows that the guy just went down ONCE after battling and besting untold numbers of his super-enhanced peers, got back up, and has never even been close to be taken down ever again.
“That it would be.”
I agree, but like I said, we don’t know that this is how it happened, or will happen, in the first place.
“Technology=/= magical advancement.”
That is arguable. What is Kratos’ level of protection because I have to say that a master-crafted and daemonically blessed suit of Power Armour is both advanced AND magical, not to mention incredibly mighty.
“Both weapons forged by gods.”
Also arguable. I’ll have to look for sources, but I don’t recall a reference for how the twin chainaxes were crafted in the first place.
On top of that, to really determine their quality we would have to debate WHO crafted each, and what manner they were crafted in. It is my turn to state that God=/=God, or are you to tell me that Aphrodite could down Zeus, or Hades out-run Hermes?
“Kratos does have a lightning speed feat and strength in the dozens of tons of lifting with questionably mortal durability.”
I can understand the strength feat, but I don’t recall a speed feat that would match a base Space Marine’s, let alone the most powerful and profficient berserker to tread the galaxy.
Mind citing, or pointing me in the right direction?
“Proven in another debate to not actually be a function of gorechild.”
Do tell. I can argue quite efficiently that at best, GW has yet to ret-con what was published in “The Wrath of Kharn”. At the very least, the weapon is still considered to be a Daemon Weapon w/ soul-drinking properties that have no real translation (or interest) to be reflected in game mechanics.
Bottom line, I CAN prove it MIGHT still be in play, and you CANNOT prove it isn’t.
“If the functions of said magic are comparable. Otherwise….no.”
Explain. If it’s a magical effect that targets Kharn directly or indirectly, it will not work. If its a magic effect that enhances Kratos or his equipment, it will.
“Hasn’t been proven.”
Like I said above, I’ll do my best to try to prove any of this, but it might take a while. I am pretty possitive that barring time manipulation, Kharn would be much faster than Kratos in any scenario.
Stronger and smarter are still up for grabs (though I am sure Kharn is a much more efficient strategist).
“But following CIS would Kharn use the pistol against Kratos if he’s got the whole “worthy opponent” thing down in a melee fight?”
Kharn kills. There is no doubt how. He may prefer to do it a certain way to satisfy his patron further, but they are both equally satisfied by just letting the blood flow. As long as Kharn does it in a way where he can recover the skull afterwards, raining Plasma fire on his targets is to be expected as he charges forward. Even then, he will be right as rain with daddy Khorne as long as he is killing in his name.
I will provide citing to reference arguments, fellers. Just don’t have the time now. Look for them next week most likely.
“Like we already know about all things 40k, concrete proof extrapolated from ambiguous references is not quite as easy as other things. Ill do my best later. Likely, next week.”
We know. There’s no rush, bud.
“Starting us off, no one can know this for certain, and any statements on either side regarding whether or not he could be killed will be pure conjecture at best.”
I thought any kind of auto-reincarnation for BankGambling was ruled out anyway because in most cases there was virtually no way around it? That and it made some debates pretty retarded. Like this one: Who can die more times?
Alucard being an exception as he doesn’t actually die each time; a piece of him dies.
““Technology=/= magical advancement.”
That is arguable. What is Kratos’ level of protection because I have to say that a master-crafted and daemonically blessed suit of Power Armour is both advanced AND magical, not to mention incredibly mighty.”
I’m aware of this too. Kratos is difficult to judge though in terms of durability between what is game mechanics and what is not. Very clearly god-forged weapons pierce him quite nicely. He’s shown to be more resilient than solid stone for whatever that amounts to. Kinetic damage (such as him getting thrown) is pretty much useless anyway. Same with getting crushed by forces well beyond Kharn’s league (the titans for strength only).
Can Kratos take a strike from Gorechild? We can’t prove otherwise.
Same with energy attacks (plasma pistol).
“Also arguable. I’ll have to look for sources, but I don’t recall a reference for how the twin chainaxes were crafted in the first place.
On top of that, to really determine their quality we would have to debate WHO crafted each, and what manner they were crafted in. It is my turn to state that God=/=God, or are you to tell me that Aphrodite could down Zeus, or Hades out-run Hermes?”
I never stated the god’s were equal. Just that both weapons had a divine source and were both inherently likely to have some peculiar abilities/feats. Really, point I was trying to make was that whoever posted that Gorechild > Chaos Blades didn’t actually give a reason as to how one was more advanced than the other.
“I can understand the strength feat, but I don’t recall a speed feat that would match a base Space Marine’s, let alone the most powerful and profficient berserker to tread the galaxy.”
He could react to lightning after it’s been fired with only a few meters distance between him and the source. This includes block (golden fleece) as well as dodging to get out of the way. This would be in the final fight against Zeus.
““Proven in another debate to not actually be a function of gorechild.”
Do tell. I can argue quite efficiently that at best, GW has yet to ret-con what was published in “The Wrath of Kharn”. At the very least, the weapon is still considered to be a Daemon Weapon w/ soul-drinking properties that have no real translation (or interest) to be reflected in game mechanics.”
It was mostly the fact that no other instance supported this. Such as when striking down a living person. That one instance where it did “drink” a soul was –as far as i remember– stored in an inanimate object. There really is no way to prove it could do the same to a still living entity.
““If the functions of said magic are comparable. Otherwise….no.”
Explain. If it’s a magical effect that targets Kharn directly or indirectly, it will not work. If its a magic effect that enhances Kratos or his equipment, it will.”
This was all brought up in the Kharn and Dante Vs alucard and Spawn debate. Basically whether or not Spawn’s necroplasm would work against Kharn.
Comes down to ANY type of magic/energy manipulation on BankGambling. I see no reason why interactions should work if the mechanics of the two different types of magic aren’t even remotely close to each other.
On top of that magic is a largely ambiguous term. Some types of magic fall into a category where “chi” more appropiately describes its usage and effects. Just because one’s called magic and one is called chi the “magic” one doesn’t work on Kharn but the Kamehameha would?
No examples come to mind at the moment save for comparing Rand’s weaving magic to warp ‘magic’. Similar mechanically even if the sources are different. Whereas in SoT Rahl’s magic is all internal as a form of energy comparable to “chi” under a different name.
“(though I am sure Kharn is a much more efficient strategist).”
Aside from a few simple traps and such Kratos really hasn’t shown much in this category. He is imaginative in his methods of attacking; I’ll give him that much.
““But following CIS would Kharn use the pistol against Kratos if he’s got the whole “worthy opponent” thing down in a melee fight?”
Kharn kills. There is no doubt how. He may prefer to do it a certain way to satisfy his patron further, but they are both equally satisfied by just letting the blood flow. As long as Kharn does it in a way where he can recover the skull afterwards, raining Plasma fire on his targets is to be expected as he charges forward. Even then, he will be right as rain with daddy Khorne as long as he is killing in his name.”
That’s all I wanted to know.
In regards to soul drinking.
I really hate the round-about logic of “they havent talked about it again, so it must not have it”. The truth is that there is evidence that there is SOME form of mystical soul-drinking property in the weapon as this was published by a high-canon source, and it has yet to be rescinded.
The quality of this property, and the usefulness can be argued to high hell with much justification, but not the fact that the item DOES have it. That particular point is where I draw the line.
Lets take for example Abaddon’s legendary sword. In other volumes, it was clearly described as a weapon with a bound daemon that can warp reality. Which in turn allowed the weapon to be one of the most devastating attacks delivered by a mortal.
However, the new codex does not make mention of this reality-warping property. It doesn’t say it no longer has it, just doesn’t mention it. Would you say today in a debate involving Abaddon that Drach’nyen can no longer warp reality as it was previously described?
Hell no.
Omision of an element is far from being the same as proof of its non-existence.
Evidence clearly points towards Gorechild at least having a bound demon entity that absorbs the essence of other bound beings, and SUGGESTS that it may drink the souls of others. Though that last part is slightly conjectural, and I’ll be the first to admit it.
Trust me when I say that I don’t just Wank. What I argue, I KNOW (or at least I am under the impression that I know) to be the case. Even if I can’t immediately cite my sources, I try to never just say things to benefit my arguments without at least having some previous solid insight into the matter. I may be wrong in a lot of instances, but I am the first to admit when I am, and will quickly concede the point. In this particular case, no one has PROVEN that I am wrong to this date, even after I PROVE that I am right.
I guess i’ll keep waiting for it.
@CIDE
I think he meant to say that in context of the quote, gorechild only soul sucks once the guy is dead, not any contact with the blade what-so-ever.
“I think he meant to say that in context of the quote, gorechild only soul sucks once the guy is dead, not any contact with the blade what-so-ever.”
Right.
The evidence is irrefutable that the weapon:
– Has at least one bound daemonic essence.
– Has properties to absorb the energy of another being.
– The essence communicates with Kharn at least on a basic level.
The evidence only suggests that the weapon:
– May only “drink” from a previously bound essence.
– May “drink” from each and every kill made with it.
– Kharn may not have any control over it.
– Said properties make no difference to Kharn in his duty to the Blood Father.
As the main advocate of the “Gorechild isn’t a daemon weapon weapon” argument, I feel I have to jump in here.
Its not that the Gorechilds has been retconned of its daemonic power. Its that said daemonic possession was mentioned in one singular short story and not in any of the army-books. In the army books, gorechild is described as a
“huge chainaxe and artifact from the Great Crusade. Its teeth come from the jaws of mica-dragons of the death world Luther McIntyre IX, its haft forged from adamantium and its head is a full three spans across”
Two army books with numerous small excerpts of Kharn slaughtering things, including another, seperate short story at the back of the most recent codex, and yet only once, outside of the highest canon codex, has it been called possessed. By a writer who up until that point specialized in warhammer fantasy.
That said, if we take it as canon, which isn’t entirely unreasonable, or if the Horus Heresy Books prove me wrong, then I’ll gladly concede the point. (or if Gorechild is mentioned as sentient in the short story in the latest codex, where Kharn kills an entire artillery crew and three berzerkers.)
J, you know how much I respect you, and that is precisely why it baffles me how resistant you are to this. What you are doing is obviating concrete evidence to justify it with your own opinion. It is simple…
– The short story was written by a work-for-hire author, not asociated with Games Workshop.
– The story was published by Games Workshop via their periodical, White Dwarf, without any disclaimer that they disagreed on any way.
– Games Workshop has stated that these sort of publications are some of the highest canon as they the main method of, wait for it, ret-con and/or errata rules.
– Games Workshop continued publishing material without mentioning the daemon properties, but they also haven’t made at statement to retract this earlier work. In fact, they re-published the story within a collection of other with no change made to it.
So in reallity, there is no known proof that refutes Gorechild having these controversial properties. If there is, produce it. Contact a Games Worksgop official. Scan the periodicals for any relevant statements.
All I am saying is that I have proven it has it > you have conjectured it doesn’t.
I don’t say I agree with it. In fact, I share your opinion, but it is all about what EVIDENCE PROVES, not what you KNOW. Even then, the properties in question can be greatly debated in turn. If anyone cared to, they could have found holes in the Soul Drinking claims, and those would have been quite valid, but simply waving away concrete evidence with the mentality of “I haven’t seen it again, so it must not be true” is not very becoming of a rational debater.
The story was originally a White dwarf piece?
I did not know that, and am rather annoyed that I missed out on that particular periodical. I miss the days when they’d have Chapter Approved and the like…
As to why I’m resistant to the idea… I’m not sure. Maybe its because it clashes with the idea i’ve had of Kharn.
Yea, it was first published in a White Dwarf. Since Kharn is such a hot topic of late once more, I will be paying close attention to him anew. I plan on owning the shit out of his respect thread, too.
I hear ya about Gorechild. I dont necessarily agree with it either, but I have no evidence to refute it. It is a “true until proven false” situation, mate. Plain and simple.
You know me. You know I don’t debate like a half-wit. If I say something it’s because I can back it up (or at least THINK I can back it up).
I’ll be more than happy to bow-out of this argument as soon as someone shows proof otherwise, though. That’s how much my personal opinion differs from my own evidential determination.
…Stupid enter key, making me look like a fool with that last message.
As to why I’m resistant to the idea… I’m not sure. Maybe its because it clashes with the idea i’ve had of Kharn. He’s always, rules-wise and background wise, represented as a lunatic killer who fights and kills by his own merit. Even his resurrection is said to be either an intervention by Khorne, the essense of war awakening Kharns warrior spirit or just Kharns stubborn refusal to bow to mortality. Likewise, the Collar of Khorne was rarely gifted, and more often wrenched from a Flesh hound.
That Kharn’s killer prowess is enhanced by a raging daemon rather than by his own strength seems to take away part of his character.
Maybe it is just personal preference. Not a huge fan of WIlliam King’s works.
kharn would win hands down
Cool. Got any reason on how Kharn can beat Kratos?
Aside from being the immortal hurricane of blood-lust and pure rage and for the fact he has Daddy Khorne watching over him?
this seemed mildly interesting, and considering the more modern reworking of the blessing and all, and other modern arguments for Kratos, has anything changed?
@Admiral at #71
All I know is that this fight is interesting, that’s all that’s concrete actually.
Tough choice… I’l go with Kratos. I think that he can win.