Goku Vs Itachi Uchiha

Goku (Dragonball Z) Vs Itachi Uchiha (Naruto)

Here is a match in which I’ll confess to not know much other than that Goku can go head to head with Superman, so that must mean something.

So, dear reader, who wins this fight?

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4,099 Comments on "Goku Vs Itachi Uchiha"

  1. Soulerous March 22, 2013 at 8:51 pm -      #3901

    There’s no stalemate. We know Goku has significantly more ki than anyone Itachi has used Genjutsu on, and can therefore not be affected by it. The whole thing about tailed beasts having all their chakra controlled remains unproven. It is also likely that Goku will simply attack and kill Itachi immediately.
    ~
    Anyway, I’m going to see a movie now. Later.

  2. sadot06 March 22, 2013 at 8:54 pm -      #3902

    There is a statelmate because there is no evidence that Goku has too much Ki in his cranial nerves to control.

  3. Max81 March 22, 2013 at 9:05 pm -      #3903

    “The whole thing about tailed beasts having all their chakra controlled remains unproven”
    -
    I thought this was already proven?
    -
    narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/501/8
    -
    this shows tobi controlling the juubi within Kushina, without the physical body, he controlled all the kyuubi’s energy in this one.
    -
    I mean it does’nt really get more cleerer than that.
    -
    I agree with Sadot, we should use Edo Itachi, because goku can BFR him, and that way we can use this motion to start winding down the thread, before we get even higher in the comment section.
    -

  4. Amm0vamp1r3 March 22, 2013 at 9:16 pm -      #3904

    I do not agree that we should use Itachi, Unless we just want to end this on a stomp
    -
    Because the whole “goku can BFR him” Doesn’t cut it,at all

  5. DragonRebornSTOMP March 22, 2013 at 9:21 pm -      #3905

    Just thought I should throw something out here before I head to campus: +1 for Goku/Sean Shcemmel’s mad lung capacity.

  6. sadot06 March 22, 2013 at 9:22 pm -      #3906

    But Goku can do that @Ammo. Goku can breathe in space now and if he tosses Itachi up there he has no way of getting back.

  7. Amm0vamp1r3 March 22, 2013 at 9:26 pm -      #3907

    But the thing is Itachis durability isn’t like that of the people Goku attacks so one punch would turn Itachi to mush,which he would reform from
    -
    Then (possibly) Goku would resort to blast attacks which,Itachi would reform from
    -
    But if this whole Goku won’t be effected by genjutsu thing pans out then It would Goku fighting something he couldn’t put down,while itachi could fight back.
    -
    And BFR isn’t something Goku goes for enough to say Itachi fits the bill for it

  8. Max81 March 22, 2013 at 9:34 pm -      #3908

    @dragonrebornstomp
    whu?
    -
    @Ammo
    i don’t know, the problem is, we don’t really have a choice it is his most recent battle incarnation.
    -

  9. DragonRebornSTOMP March 22, 2013 at 9:36 pm -      #3909

    @Max Sean Schemmel is Goku’s voice actor.

  10. Amm0vamp1r3 March 22, 2013 at 9:36 pm -      #3910

    It is but earlier it was agreed to use non Edo
    -
    So to reverse it there would have to be another consensus

  11. sadot06 March 22, 2013 at 9:37 pm -      #3911

    It’s not like Goku has never shot somebody in space before. He can just kick him or punch him up in the air, then kameheha wave him into space.

  12. Max81 March 22, 2013 at 9:39 pm -      #3912

    @dragonrebornstopm
    cool, i just don’t see what it has to do with the debate. sorry, i just don’t understand
    -
    @ammo
    i don’t remmeber that. I thougth we all agreed not to use it because it was a stomp so we decided to use normal itachi and Goku, and for the past 1,000 comments nothing has changed neither side has budged even an inch,

  13. Amm0vamp1r3 March 22, 2013 at 9:43 pm -      #3913

    “It’s not like Goku has never shot somebody in space before. He can just kick him or punch him up in the air, then kameheha wave him into space.”
    -
    Would Itachi still be whole after the kick?
    -
    Would goku actually follow with a kamehameha?
    -
    Would the Itachi actually Tank the Kamehameha or would he be blown apart?
    -
    Is this something Goku actually does?
    -
    And would Itachi just sit there and let this happen?

  14. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 22, 2013 at 9:49 pm -      #3914

    you realize we don’t know the actual facts about Kilis and if they measure the same way as power levels? Keep in mind Babidi is a wizard he uses magic not ki.
    The movie seems to be, I posted Bill’s first encounter with Goku earlier. and the wiki has images of the actual SSgod, Goku gets a flame aura and his hair turns red and looks like his base form hair. After activating it the first time he doesn’t need to be in the form to use the power of it similar to Gohan’s mystic transformation allowing him to access to ss1-3. Goku was able to hold off then absorb Bill’s most powerful known technique, considering Bills is a star buster that’s far more chakra/ki than Itachi has been shown to use in any of his techniques, not only that but considering ssgod allowed Goku to match in strength and speed someone who could speed blitz ss3 like ss3 Goku could blitz Krillin, even in base form, Goku’s power is far beyond all the Tailed Beasts, the Ten Tails and everyone in Naruto in base form now.

  15. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 22, 2013 at 9:56 pm -      #3915

    @Amm0
    Goku is faster than SS3 in base form now…Itachi won’t fire a synapse now. SSgod, as I said, is like Gohan’s mystic form, all power at any time….while it wouldn’t help against someone with Superman or Thor level durability……Itachi….well, to say he’s not as durable as that would be an understatement.

  16. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 22, 2013 at 9:57 pm -      #3916

    also Obito=/=Itachi

  17. Mike March 22, 2013 at 10:12 pm -      #3917

    dont know why it was brought up again, but for those that talk about this fight being edo itach, please read the match title. does it say goku vs edo itachi? nope. now if he could turn into edo itachi during the match somehow that would work for him. is that possible?

  18. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 22, 2013 at 10:18 pm -      #3918

    @Mike
    he could turn into Ten Tails Itachi and I don’t think it will help with SSgod…so apparently the hair hierarchy is black hair, spiky blonde, spikier blonde, super long blond, red……no wonder aliens never invade Scotland….except in Doctor Who…but those guys are more hax than DBZ

  19. sadot06 March 22, 2013 at 10:22 pm -      #3919

    @Mike

    It doesn’t specify incarnations, thus SSGod and Edo are in play, as it was already established before. It just requires a vote.

  20. sadot06 March 22, 2013 at 10:25 pm -      #3920

    If Itachi was the 10 tails Jinchurki he’d be a freakin beast. But anyway, I have to watch the DBZ movie. The english sub should be out beginining of April.

  21. Mike March 22, 2013 at 10:29 pm -      #3921

    It does specify incarnations. BankGambling rules state current incarnation or the most current of that character able to fight. goku and itachi. not goku and edo itachi. goku can transform, it’s a power. itachi cannot transform into edo, that’s done by someone else and is in fact a completely different incarnation of itachi.
    -
    -and it is not established to be just a vote to change things. you cannot change anything unless an administrator is convinced to change things. i only know of this happening in a match that was 2000+ into it once, in my suggested match 40k vs stargate, in which specifics of the battle stipulations needed to be addressed and i had everyone on both sides agree to it or else i would not ask for a change at all. then had matapiojo change the description at the top.

  22. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 22, 2013 at 10:30 pm -      #3922

    @Sadot
    well
    ssgod is current Goku so there’s that…Edo is the one that requires a vote, but since that was already voted against…yeah.
    ——————————–
    also apparently Bills wtfrapestomppwned Piccolo with two taps from chopsticks……chopsticks….
    —————
    oh, and ssgod Goku says
    encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpcyDWxPSgW5Kp6UYXVCfmqySZKTHm-IHk4G0_2QJUU0tjvx_Omg
    hi

  23. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 22, 2013 at 10:34 pm -      #3923

    @Mike
    there are few instances but it has happened when a match is only unfair due to certain extenuating circumstances that if agreed upon would change it. However it’s not used often since it usually doesn’t change the fact something is a stomp. Such as here. Goku flash steps and pinky flicks Itachi to the moon.

  24. Soulerous March 23, 2013 at 1:06 am -      #3924

    There is a statelmate because there is no evidence that Goku has too much Ki in his cranial nerves to control.
    -That does not constitute a stalemate, it would mean Goku could be affected. But in what way is there no evidence? Is it that you don’t believe Goku is as powerful as he’s said to be, that you think Itachi can control more than he’s been shown to, or that there’s less ki in his cranial nerves than elsewhere in his body? Because I swear we’ve been over all of those.
    ~
    @Max81- “this shows tobi controlling the juubi within Kushina, without the physical body, he controlled all the kyuubi’s energy in this one.
    -No, he extracted the beast from her with a special ritual/technique and then controlled it with a genjutsu that functions the way genjutsu does. I addressed this in post #3883.

  25. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 1:18 am -      #3925

    to add to what Soulerous said
    besides that being Obito doing a special ability we have nothing showing Itachi can do anything in the same ballpark as Obito

  26. Shgon Dunstan March 23, 2013 at 1:28 am -      #3926

    I’ll just say this once, if this thread *ever* get’s to the top of the “Popular Posts” list…. I think I might just start to hate you all just little bit. :?
    -
    I mean come on, going at the pace this thread has been for the last few weeks, it’s only going to take a month or so for it to pass “Cartoon Network Civil War”, if not just go all the way to the top.

  27. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 1:40 am -      #3927

    well hopefully the fact Goku in base form is faster than SS3 and if forced to can actually activate the SSgod transformation even after the transformation times out to get a boost in energy (the power is constant as long as he thinks of the feeling of the power but the transformation is temporary)
    if SS3 would have speed blitzed then SSgod rapes.
    -
    and I’m one of the people who said to lock this clusterfuck.

  28. Kitten Lord March 23, 2013 at 6:46 am -      #3928

    Would he speed blitz? how consistently does Goku start a fight with a Speedblitz since SS3 and after?

  29. Mike March 23, 2013 at 8:00 am -      #3929

    “Would he speed blitz? how consistently does Goku start a fight with a Speedblitz since SS3 and after?”
    -it’s not the consistency that matters, it’s how he acts in this type of situation. in tournaments, he blitzes from “go”, and ….”Think of it as follows for a MC Vs… (told to the opponent):
    “You have been brought here to fight to the death against an enhanced soldier with a powerful arsenal of ranged weapons. *is given a moment to possition himself* FIGHT!”” matapiojo during the rewrite of the BankGambling rules, explaining prep time. right on the BankGambling debating rules thread’s comments.

  30. Motor314 March 23, 2013 at 9:55 am -      #3930

    I motion we lock the thread. we aren’t getting anywhere, and that is just apparent, not to mention all the circular arguments from all of us.nothing is happening to prove any sides can win. its like mike said, “we are just looking at all the cool things they do” and that honestly is the only thing we are able to do, becuase we can’t prove Itachi can win, and we can’t prove Goku can win.
    -
    honestly i feel like its best to lock this,
    -

  31. Motor314 March 23, 2013 at 10:01 am -      #3931

    in any case this is my last post on this thread, i don’t want to promote the nonesense anymore. its to troublesome.
    -
    just in case it does come to vote, i will still my +1 for Itachi in the mix.
    -
    @soul,
    he put the genjutsu on the 9 tails while it was still in the womb, so the nine tails was already wtihin her, thats why you saw the sharingan form around teh nine-tails eyes. So tobi was controlling all the nine tails and not just the the physical body.
    -
    @everyone
    but yeah, i am hping that we can lock this thing becuase it isn’t really getting anywhere.

  32. Kitten Lord March 23, 2013 at 10:32 am -      #3932

    @Mike

    “in tournaments, he blitzes from “go”, ”

    How long has it been since hes done this, in a tournament or otherwise? Its pretty important because if he doesnt blitz in the majority of his fights as current incnarnation claiming hes going to blitz here is fallacious. As people have said, its what the character would do not what you would do with your hindsight on the match.

    Gokus being put into combat against someone, all he has is the want to defeat them and in Itcahis case, in your opinion Itachi would have a low “ki” aura that Goku would sense as average or below for his verse, Gokus not Kratos.

  33. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 10:49 am -      #3933

    In these rush from Go scenarios what are the perameters?
    -
    In tourneys he is normally fighting Humans or other Z fighters
    -
    In big fights he is fighting people who want to and can destroy the earth

  34. Mike March 23, 2013 at 11:01 am -      #3934

    “I motion we lock the thread. we aren’t getting anywhere, and that is just apparent, not to mention all the circular arguments from all of us.nothing is happening to prove any sides can win. its like mike said, “we are just looking at all the cool things they do” and that honestly is the only thing we are able to do, becuase we can’t prove Itachi can win, and we can’t prove Goku can win.
    -
    honestly i feel like its best to lock this,”
    -nothing you said is the opposing sides opinion and you took my quote WAY out of context. itachi cannot be proven to win, goku can.
    -YOU guys are just posting what you think is “cool” stuff about itachi that doesn’t show he can win. i even clarified this in the post you got that quote from.
    -
    -
    “@everyone
    but yeah, i am hping that we can lock this thing becuase it isn’t really getting anywhere.”
    -no, your side has come to a stop because they can’t prove itachi can use his abilities on goky/win in general. “not getting anywhere” is just itachi supporters not being able to achieve victory for him. we have gotten somewhere, and it is goku wins, just like it was 3000 posts ago, and for the exact same reasons with the exact same proof for both sides. like i said a while ago when this thread was revitalized, all of this has been discussed before(with some minor new things now).
    -
    -
    @kitten lord
    -Soulerous posted a scan of goku doing that in the tournaments.
    -the length of time passed since this has absolutely no bearing since it is a situational action, not a chronologically changing action.
    -again, it’s not needed to be a majority of fights, if it is done when in this specific situation.
    -no one has said it is what they would do, it has always been if it is within goku’s nature/tendency to do it this way in this type of situation, and the answer is yes.
    -
    -
    “Gokus being put into combat against someone, all he has is the want to defeat them and in Itcahis case, in your opinion Itachi would have a low “ki” aura that Goku would sense as average or below for his verse, Gokus not Kratos.”
    -i don’t see a point here and i see cross franchise references. have no idea what you are trying to say.
    -
    -
    “In these rush from Go scenarios what are the perameters?”
    -world’s martial arts tournaments. they say “go” or “start” or whatever and goku instantly blitz attacks.
    -BankGambling matches do the same as you can see from my earlier post.
    -
    -
    “In tourneys he is normally fighting Humans or other Z fighters
    -
    In big fights he is fighting people who want to and can destroy the earth”
    -again i don’t see a direct point, but i will assume you are suggesting he acts differently because of the assumed power levels and or friendliness? if so, all of that is removed because of the want to kill by BankGambling rules.

  35. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 11:07 am -      #3935

    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vAmtkSraJaE#t=93s
    Goku ss3 tries to speed blitz Bills who’s on ssgod level, Goku has mystic Gohan’s power all the time deal going on. Note he didn’t even want to kill Bills there I don’t think, he just wanted a fight. Here he want’s to make Itachi go splat, notice he punches a hole straight through King Kai’s fucking planet at one point by the way.
    Goku knows people can suppress their power levels, he’s done it, and he’s seen others do it, he won’t go based off what he senses from Itachi. He’ll think “hmmm, doesn’t seem much of a threat but he’s probably suppressing his power level to trick me into underestimating him. Betters speedblitz his ass”

  36. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 11:07 am -      #3936

    Yea I was saying I think he doesn’t rush big threats like Cell and Buu and such is because they are equal if not greater than him in power
    -
    While in tourneys the people he fights are not so he rushes in because he has no worries

  37. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 11:13 am -      #3937

    Wow bills just punked Goku lol

  38. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 11:33 am -      #3938

    “besides that being Obito doing a special ability we have nothing showing Itachi can do anything in the same ballpark as Obito”
    ______________________________
    Seriously? Tobito can’t even awaken Susanoo. Itachi was a genius all his life. The spacetime jutsu was the only thing that really made Tobito difficult to fight, but he was still afraid of Itachi because of Amaterasu and still nearly died fighting Konan. Tobito’s getting by because of the stolen Rinnegan in his one eye and the 1st hokage’s cells.

  39. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 11:39 am -      #3939

    lack of one technique or two does not an equal make. Show me Itachi controling the Nine Tails, not Naruto before he and the Ninetails were on the same page, but the Nine Tailed Demon Fox itself or shut up with that argument.
    So far we’ve proved Goku will speed blitz, we know thanks to the battle of gods manual he has ssgod power all the time just like Gohans mystic upgrade gives him ss1-3 all the time. Goku is on Bill’s level, watch that video and see how, as Amm0 said Bill’s punked ss3 Goku like he was fucking Krillin. This isn’t a fight.

  40. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 11:49 am -      #3940

    “lack of one technique or two does not an equal make”

    You say that, but then claim Tobito>Itachi because Itachi never tried to put a genjutsu on a tailed beast so you assume he can’t. Yet the 3 most powerful genjutsu in the entire Narutoverse could all be done by Itachi. Do better please.

    And for the 3rd time, until Battle of the Gods is out, your SSGod wanking doesn’t mean anything.

  41. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 11:56 am -      #3941

    You say that, but then claim Tobito>Itachi because Itachi never tried to put a genjutsu on a tailed beast so you assume he can’t.
    -
    A debater is never required to prove a negative. The fact that we never see Itachi use Genjutsu on a fully-formed tailed beast is more than enough to cast doubt on his ability.

  42. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 11:58 am -      #3942

    the ssgod was revealed in the official manual, its not wanking because Toriyama released what it looks like, and the movie seems to be out since there are screenshots from it that show the non doctored version of ssgod and the plot i all over the internet so you find proof that Goku won’t vaporize Itachi w one punch or shut up

  43. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:03 pm -      #3943

    @The Sorrow

    You are incorrect. That line was pointing out the contradiction of his post. Susanoo is a ridiculously powerful technique that only the strongest Uchia can pull off, the 1st recorded one being Madara, yet Tobi can’t do it. But he says being able to do a technique doesn’t matter in regards to strength, then cites a technique (controlling the 9 tails) as the reason Tobito>Itachi, ignoring the fact that half of Tobito’s body is made from the 1st hokage’s cells which is why he can, not purely because of power. Only Madara was actually strong enough to do it without the 1st’s cells.

  44. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:04 pm -      #3944

    hold on i missed the whole kili’s argument, why did we through that out, it shoudl’ve ended the debate.
    -
    it is the solid piece of information about this entire debate.
    -
    i personally think we should use that,
    -
    @guardian
    we disproved speedblitzing a long time ago. so pelase don’t try bringing it back up again, it has taken 1,000 comments to argue, you don’t show up and say, while otu of the 50 fights goku fought he speed blitzed 4 times that means he will speedblitz Itachi.
    -
    that doesn’t really work.
    -
    also your SSgod take 6 people to awaken, he can’t activate it without otuside help so stop brining it up.
    -

    @everyone
    I feel that we should just use the kili argument, it is in the kazneshu so it is cannon, plus it doesn’t contradict the anime, and it was very cannon, not to mention again it is the single best argument i have seen in this entire 4,000 comment debate.

  45. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:05 pm -      #3945

    Guardian everything you’re saying isn’t remotely relevant at this point in the debate. Which makes sense, because you haven’t been here so you don’t know what the primary argument is. So until those are resolved and until the movie is actually available to be watched in its entirety with subs, shut up.

  46. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 12:06 pm -      #3946

    dbzexperts.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/04gl3qo.jpg
    and there is the image from it just to show I’m telling the truth

  47. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:07 pm -      #3947

    besides earlier when it was proved Cell couldn’t solar system bust. I liked that part.

  48. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:07 pm -      #3948

    @Max

    Kilis was thrown out because the explanation wasn’t canon. In the manga it’s only mentioned for 2 pages and the only thing it says is that Goku has 3000 kilis, which is high, and Yakon has 800. It goes into no further detail.

  49. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:08 pm -      #3949

    You still don’t understand. Having Susanoo isn’t a requirement for having a strong enough Genjutsu to ensnare a Tailed-Beast.
    -
    It’s as simple as: If you don’t have the feats, you have no right to assume that Itachi could do the same thing Tobi can.

  50. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:10 pm -      #3950

    @sadot
    but the even Akirya Toriyama ackowledged the daznshu as the highest form of cannon for dbz, and not to mention it was also brought into more detail in the anime kili’s
    -
    plus i feel like it can be used to end the debate, it has gone on to long,
    -
    I mean how do you think the debate should end?

  51. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 12:10 pm -      #3951

    I posted a fight from the movie above but, of course you refuse to acknowledge evidence of speed blitz you didn’t watch it.

  52. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:10 pm -      #3952

    You don’t understand, if the claim is one technique doesn’t make you stronger, that’s it. It doesn’t go both ways. You also ignored the part about using the 1st hokage’s cells.

  53. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:12 pm -      #3953

    @the sorrow
    awakening the Susanoo means Itachi’s mangekyou is stronger than tobi’s.
    -
    also it ahs been stated and shown that the Sharingan is able to supress the nine-tails, like when Sasuke forced the kyuubi back in its kae, and also simply having MS will give you the ability to control the 9 tails that ahs been proven.
    -

  54. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:13 pm -      #3954

    I watch the fight. Goku stared at him for 2 seconds, turned, fully to face him, crouched in a stance, then charged. You’ve failed. Go away.

  55. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:15 pm -      #3955

    I ignored it because it’s irrelevant to my point. My point is that Itachi needs proof he could control something as powerful as a Tailed-Beast. That’s all. If you cannot prove that, it’s not worth mentioning.

  56. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:15 pm -      #3956

    @gaurdian
    just becuase goku has been shown to speedblitz on the rarest of occasions doesn’t mean he will always speedblitzs. i admitted and have admitted that on the odd occasion he will speedblitz but from we have seen it is doubtful he will speedblitz Itachi.
    -

  57. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:16 pm -      #3957

    @Max
    Do you actually have a quote of Toriyama saying the Daizenshuu is the highest form of canon?

  58. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:17 pm -      #3958

    simply having MS will give you the ability to control the 9 tails that ahs been proven.
    -
    By only two of it’s users. Obito and Madara, we have no one else to prove that that is the case. Just stating it isn’t enough to convince us.

  59. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:18 pm -      #3959

    @sorrow
    Itachi did catch killer B with Ease whihc is the second strongest tailed beast and almost as powerful as the 9 tails, and not to mention the kyuubi’s fear of the mangekyou.
    -
    so he has those feats, I mean if sasuke with just the regular sharingan could restrain the kyuubi, why can’t Itachi with a full powered MS? when it has been stated that the MS can control the Kyuubi?

  60. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:21 pm -      #3960

    No it isn’t irrelevant because having the 1st hokage’s cells gave Yamato power to stop Naruto when he transformed, despite being waaay weaker, and even Tobito ackonwledged when he saw Danzo had the 1st hokage’s cells that he must be trying to control a tailed beast because that’s what having the 1st cells allows you to do. He’s not using his own power, he’s using a shortcut. As motor said, it was stated in canon that a Mangekeyo is the requirement for controlling a beast with a Sharingan. Itachi, Madara, and Sasuke have the strongest Managekyo’s in the series.

  61. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:22 pm -      #3961

    @sadot
    I remember you bringing it up once, well i thought it was you. I’ll keep looking for it

  62. GuardianAngel1911 Warden of Demonreach prison for Eldritch Abominations March 23, 2013 at 12:23 pm -      #3962

    @Sorrow
    was talking to Sadot who ignores what is shown anyway.

  63. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:23 pm -      #3963

    Itachi did catch killer B with Ease whihc is the second strongest tailed beast and almost as powerful as the 9 tails, and not to mention the kyuubi’s fear of the mangekyou.
    -
    Killer B wasn’t in his fully-formed state now was he? Even if he had been, being “almost as powerful” isn’t the same as being “as powerful”.
    -
    The Kyuubi had intense hatred for Madara because he controlled him. Not that he is scared of the Sharingan.

  64. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:24 pm -      #3964

    And as Max said, but you ignored, Sauske went inside Naruto’s mind and effortlessly suppressed the 9 tails with just a regular Sharingan.

  65. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:26 pm -      #3965

    As motor said, it was stated in canon that a Mangekeyo is the requirement for controlling a beast with a Sharingan. Itachi, Madara, and Sasuke have the strongest Managekyo’s in the series.
    -
    Again the feats need to be shown. Only two of the four with MS has been shown to control them completely.

  66. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:28 pm -      #3966

    And as Max said, but you ignored, Sauske went inside Naruto’s mind and effortlessly suppressed the 9 tails with just a regular Sharingan.
    -
    I think you should realize the difference between suppressing and controlling. Also, I find a trapped 9-tailed beast with only a fraction of his power to be a rather an unimpressive feat.

  67. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:29 pm -      #3967

    Only Madara and Sasuke’s tailed beast sharingan feats were legit.

  68. Dassadec March 23, 2013 at 12:30 pm -      #3968

    @ max
    Goku speed blitzed in almost every tournament style fight. This being a tournament style battle makes it completely applicable

  69. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:30 pm -      #3969

    Only Madara and Sasuke’s tailed beast sharingan feats were legit.
    -
    Ummm no? Obito has been shown to control multipile tailed beasts at once, even in their released states.

  70. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:32 pm -      #3970

    i think its unfair to dismiss Itachi as being unable to control the kyuubi simply becuase he never got the chance, thats like saying, Goku can’t beat cell, because Goku never beat him.
    -
    think of it this way.
    -
    to beat superman you need kryptonit.
    -
    to control the kyuubi you need MS
    -
    if you have have Kryponite you beat superman, If you ahve MS you can control the kyuubi.
    -

  71. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm -      #3971

    @dassede and gaurdian
    can we finish this genjutsu debate, and then get to speedblitz, i don’t want this to keep going in circles

  72. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm -      #3972

    i think its unfair to dismiss Itachi as being unable to control the kyuubi simply becuase he never got the chance
    -
    It’s completely fair.
    -
    thats like saying, Goku can’t beat cell, because Goku never beat him.
    -
    But he has been shown to beat characters stronger than Cell, so that really doesn’t work as an example.

  73. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm -      #3973

    but in any case i highly recommend we use the kili thing TKog and motor brought up. it is the only solid piece of evidence that we have that confirms.
    -
    Goku can bust multiple planets.
    -
    goku’s true power.
    -
    not to mention it will help dbz debates in the future.
    -
    :)

  74. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 12:41 pm -      #3974

    The kili thing was dropped for a reason why do you keep bringing it up?

  75. Dassadec March 23, 2013 at 12:41 pm -      #3975

    Tobi doesn’t have a MS though

  76. Dassadec March 23, 2013 at 12:42 pm -      #3976

    Or at least he didn’t when he fought Minato

  77. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm -      #3977

    @ammo
    how can it be disproven? it was used in the manga, and the dazenshu which is the highest point of cannon.
    -
    did i miss something?
    -

  78. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm -      #3978

    Obito does actually. He got it after witnessing Rin die in front of him.

  79. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm -      #3979

    Well as it has been said to you, it was only seen a little bit and even then it was confusing since only Badi uses it

  80. Mike March 23, 2013 at 12:46 pm -      #3980

    why are people talking about multiple sclerosis? lol
    -
    -
    yeah, same unbased claims coming from itachi supporters, which then shown to be just opinions and unprovable they will then claim the match is unknowable or a stalemate, for which it isn’t; just their inability to validly debate further nor prove itachi won’t be neigh instantly killed.
    -
    -
    there, that’s the next 100 posts summed up.

  81. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:49 pm -      #3981

    “Ummm no? Obito has been shown to control multipile tailed beasts at once, even in their released states.”

    Obito controlled the Edo jinchuriki with chakra recievers from the Outer Path. He just made them transform, and subsequently started to lose control of them.

    And anyway if you followed the series you’d how illogical your argument is. A Mangekyo can control a tailed beast. That would require a powerful Mangekyo. Madara’s Mangekeyko was strong because he unlocked Tsukuyomi and Susanoo. He controlled a tailed beast. Itachi unlocked Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susanoo, all the strongest techniques of the Mangekyo. The strongest genjutsu in the show are Tsukuyomi, Izanami, and Shishui’s mind control. Itachi could do all 3. Out of all these advanced Mangekyo powers, Tobito can do 1, but we’re to believe Itachi’s genjutsu isn’t strong enough to snare a tailed beast, but Tobito’s is, even though Sasuke accomplished 9 tails control with a regular sharingan? If you can’t see that’s absurd then I don’t know what to tell you. I guess go on and argue that Goku can’t planet bust because he’s never tried it.

  82. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 12:52 pm -      #3982

    Kili isn’t canon and the highest form of canon is the original source material, which in this case is the manga. Unless there is a quote of Toriyama saying the highest form of a canon is the guidebook instead of the manga, it doesn’t count.

  83. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 12:53 pm -      #3983

    I guess go on and argue that Goku can’t planet bust because he’s never tried it.
    -
    You would be called an idiot if you tried.
    -
    Basically I’m just going to tell you to find legitimate feats, or don’t talk about it like Itachi can. Call me illogical all you like, but I am following standard debating procedures, you are not.

  84. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 12:55 pm -      #3984

    Did not realize we surpassed Facts vs zombified city
    -

  85. Dassadec March 23, 2013 at 12:55 pm -      #3985

    Different eyes have different soilless though don’t they?
    Itachi couldn’t use Shisuis genjutsu without the eye

  86. Dassadec March 23, 2013 at 1:01 pm -      #3986

    Skills not soilless

  87. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 1:03 pm -      #3987

    “Did not realize we surpassed Facts vs zombified city”

    Holy crap. And it’s really close to Rand al’Thor vs Richard Rahl. This needs a lock.

  88. sadot06 March 23, 2013 at 1:06 pm -      #3988

    @Dassadec

    Tsukuyomi, Susanoo, and Amaterasu are the pillars of the Mangekyo. Shisui’s mind control is a unique techinque, but you still have to be powerful to use it, even if you have the eye. Which is part of the reason Kakashi can only use Tobito’s eye to dimension dump about 4 times.

  89. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 1:11 pm -      #3989

    lets lock this thing

  90. Shgon Dunstan March 23, 2013 at 1:16 pm -      #3990

    +1 for lock.
    -
    Maybe I haven’t been paying enough attention to the thread, but it just seems to me that it been nothing but both sides shouting their points at each other in 100+ post a day, and going nowhere fast.

  91. Mike March 23, 2013 at 1:21 pm -      #3991

    yeah, figures the side that has been proven to lose wants to call for a lock.

  92. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 1:23 pm -      #3992

    Make that +2 for the lock
    -
    we aren’t getting anwhere,plus i am not even sure if an answer can be reached even with 100,000 coments

  93. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 1:24 pm -      #3993

    Well I made my stance known already

  94. Max81 March 23, 2013 at 1:26 pm -      #3994

    good, 3 for the lock :)

  95. TheSorrow March 23, 2013 at 1:28 pm -      #3995

    “Good” isn’t a word I would use to describe a lock.

  96. Kitten Lord March 23, 2013 at 1:29 pm -      #3996

    @Mike

    “-i don’t see a point here ”

    It was fairly simple, Goku isnt bloodlusted here. infact hes not even angry, so claiming hes going to go all out just because he did “here” and “there” doesnt help your case.

    -

    “Soulerous posted a scan of goku doing that in the tournaments.”

    This is not a tournament though, its a 1v1. Context is important. This is also a fight to the death.

    “not a chronologically ”

    No you see, trying to use what he did early in his training as opposed to what he generally does years later is not current incarnation. You cant cherry pick Gokus behaviour just because you think this fight is more like a tournament…for some odd reason.

    “so, all of that is removed because of the want to kill by BankGambling rules.”

    Wrong, the rules clearly state only the unwillingness to kill is removed, that doesnt mean you can claim Goku is bloodlusted. Big difference. This means anything Goku is generally known to do refering to his opponent, e.g. reading ki and going from there etc is in. So is Goku’s honor. Hence why before I said hes not Kratos, hes not going to storm in and try and smear his opponent into a paste of blood as soon as possible. Goku does not do this.

    @Guardian

    “notice he punches a hole straight through King Kai’s fucking planet at one point by the way.”

    I also noticed King kais planet looks pretty damn small….

    And Goku seems to get hurt/made to bleed by being flicked like 20 meters. Although that said, an English version would be useful, so I guess ill wait for that so I know what their actually saying.

    Funnily enough, if this is canon peak Goku looks pretty slow comparatively.

  97. Kitten Lord March 23, 2013 at 1:30 pm -      #3997

    +1 for the lock.

    Not sure Goku is even being debated as Goku….

  98. Mike March 23, 2013 at 1:33 pm -      #3998

    @max
    -Amm0vamp1r3 never said he was in favor of a lock. only itachi supporters are calling for a lock…..think about that and what i just said…

  99. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 1:34 pm -      #3999

    Goku is being debated as goku,its just alot of people myself included see goku as A passive fighter until provoked
    -
    But as the rules say he isn’t in a passive demanor so him Blitzing is perfectly debatable,it just depends on what you see as “passive”

  100. Amm0vamp1r3 March 23, 2013 at 1:36 pm -      #4000

    Yea My stance is
    -
    If Edo we have a stomp
    -
    Without we have a stalemate
    -
    ^This is my stance

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