Goku Vs Itachi Uchiha

Goku (Dragonball Z) Vs Itachi Uchiha (Naruto)

Here is a match in which I’ll confess to not know much other than that Goku can go head to head with Superman, so that must mean something.

So, dear reader, who wins this fight?

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2,964 Comments on "Goku Vs Itachi Uchiha"

  1. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 4:15 pm -      #2801

    If I rightly remember, Goku makes eye contact with his opponents practically every time he fights. Honestly, a lot of dialogue happens while he and his enemies stare each other in the eye.
    ~
    If Goku is trapped in illusions, he’ll still be able to see where Itachi is and might be able to do something about it like Tarbel points out. I would think by the time he decides to do something that would work though, Itachi would have already attacked and finished him off. Illusions do deceive, after all. I’m sure it would be confusing to have everything stop making sense; Goku wouldn’t know right away what’s happening.
    ~
    Goku needs to touch someone to read their mind, right?

  2. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 4:24 pm -      #2802

    @ soul
    Yes on gokus mind read being on touch

  3. Storm117 March 5, 2013 at 4:25 pm -      #2803

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2-aWRIrmkM
    feels appropiate since we are about to overtake goku vs dante.
    -
    @soul
    yeah that is a problem for Goku, it would be perfect if he was fighting another warrior like Superman, but agianst Itachi it would be his worst and last mistake
    -
    inside tsyukonimi he can sense where itachi is and itachi wouldn’t hide from him, he would be standing right in front of him, so i don’t see the point of goku being able to sense him since Itachi will be like, “I am going to stab you for 72 hours, or incinerate you for 72 hours(like he did to kakashi)
    -
    and yes Goku needs to touch a forehead, from the scenes we have scene it is indeed probable that he could’ve evolved to a point where he doesn’t have to, but we don’t know that for a fact.
    -
    @everyone
    so basically is everyone in agreement on Itachi getting the fp award, provided Goku doens’t show mind blocks in the new film?

  4. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 4:26 pm -      #2804

    I have doubts as to wether itachi can act personally while holding someone in genjutsu.

  5. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 4:27 pm -      #2805

    Physically I mean

  6. Storm117 March 5, 2013 at 4:36 pm -      #2806

    I am pretty sure that Itachi wouldn’t be moving while he has someone in a genjutsu. for example tsyukonimi happens in a instant, Itachi isnt’y really going to be doing anyhting in the real world in a instant.
    -
    I am pretty sure people were saying after the genjutsu, goku drops to his knees gasping for air, and in those few seconds Itachi can nail him with Amertersu or the totsuka blade, or both for a super combo.
    -

  7. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 4:44 pm -      #2807

    We’re still taking base Goku though, at a injured and gasping for air point he would see the need to immediately go some form of SS which as we saw in the frieza fight with SS 1 his injuries there Disappeared with the influx of SS Ki

  8. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm -      #2808

    Whoa, Itachi can’t do anything else whilst using Genjutsu?

  9. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 4:51 pm -      #2809

    I don’t know I have heard people say genjustu then Black Flame or A sword but I don’t if they meant immediately after Genjutsu or while genjutsu

  10. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 4:53 pm -      #2810

    He has never shown the ability to act while anyone is under Tsukiyomi at least. Normal genjutsu are different since there are cases of being able to act ; jiraiya and the toads genjutsu. But in that case the ninja toads are the ones using the technique not jiraiya, who sucks at genjutsu so he doesn’t have to concentrate on the jutsu

  11. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 4:55 pm -      #2811

    They mean immediately after which, with Gokus RT is still kinda hazy wether Itachi could do it before a SStransformation

  12. TheSorrow March 5, 2013 at 4:56 pm -      #2812

    Whoa, Itachi can’t do anything else whilst using Genjutsu?
    -
    That’s an issue I encountered when I was debating for him a few months ago. Apparently cannot, or will not attack a target when trapped in Genjutsu. Possibly because of the concentration it takes to hold the illusion together.
    -
    There shouldn’t be an issue for him after the Genjustu is done though.

  13. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 4:56 pm -      #2813

    @Soulerous
    “Whoa, Itachi can’t do anything else whilst using Genjutsu?”
    -
    Not in a “it stops him from moving” kind of way, just in a “tsyukonimi is over with just about as soon as it’s cast, there’s not really *time* to do anything” kind of way.

  14. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 4:58 pm -      #2814

    I meant “normal genjutsu” I always separate standard genjutsu from sharingan genjutsu

  15. Storm117 March 5, 2013 at 4:59 pm -      #2815

    well we bypassed goku vs dante.
    -
    I am on the fense about this being a good thing or a bad thing.
    -
    good becasue Itachi has a better chance and may even beat goku.
    -
    bad becuase it has taken so long.
    -
    @everyone
    so what is left to discuss?

  16. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 5:00 pm -      #2816

    @TheSorrow
    “That’s an issue I encountered when I was debating for him a few months ago. Apparently cannot, or will not attack a target when trapped in Genjutsu. Possibly because of the concentration it takes to hold the illusion together.”
    -
    That’s…. Not true.
    -
    The few times he’s used Genjutsu other then tsyukonimi and not attacked, were against people he did *want* dead.
    -
    And we’ve *seen* others attack while using Genjutsu, so we know that’s not how they work.

  17. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 5:04 pm -      #2817

    “he did *want* dead.”>he didn’t *want* dead.

  18. Tarbel March 5, 2013 at 5:25 pm -      #2818

    “so basically is everyone in agreement on Itachi getting the fp award, provided Goku doens’t show mind blocks in the new film?”
    -
    I’m not convinced.
    -
    -
    -
    “Whoa, Itachi can’t do anything else whilst using Genjutsu?”
    -
    Genjutsu, I’m not sure. But Tsukiyomi does require a lot of concentration (a LOT, as in so much it strains the user with each use) partly because of its complexity and partly because of how fast it is done as well as the amount of chakra it uses.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    I still say Goku can take the 72 hour torture without being completely capacitated or out of it at the end of it. He has very strong will as well as very high tolerance for pain.
    Itachi telling Goku about the 72 hours ahead may just fuel Goku’s drive to fight because he would be given a goal to last through the time.
    -
    -
    This is assuming Goku is able to get stabbed and hurt by Itachi.
    Goku is unbelievably durable, even in his base form, so much so that axes and bullets don’t pierce him, not to mention the mountain busting ki attacks(not even referring to the moonbusters). (Piccolo saga)
    -
    -
    This is also assuming Itachi does use his Tsukiyomi at the start. I say there is a 1/10 chance he would use it because Itachi always has genjutsu ready when he needs to. He doesn’t use it against stronger opponents because they could dispel it quite easily.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    Important about Susanoo, Sword of Totsuka:
    narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=178574
    Specifically, the Sword of Totsuka must pierce its target to seal.
    -
    This may be conjecture, but it seems to be very logical conjecture, and I have yet to see evidence of Itachi sealing with his Totsuka by merely slicing the target (not to mention Goku’s enhanced durability).

  19. Storm117 March 5, 2013 at 6:06 pm -      #2819

    @tarbel
    he always used tsyukonimi on those stronger than him, and tried to. Tsyukonimi can only be beat by another sharingan in the narutoverse, so he woudln’t hesitate to use it here.
    -
    it isn’t the strongest genjutsu for nothing you know >__ -
    goku surviving genjutsu would be tough and almost impossible. i mean if he doesn't goku would be put in a state where is bearly able to breath, like kakashi was, and itachi could just use amertersu to finsih off the saiyan. the amertersu could burn a slice into kakarot and the sword would come in and seal him up.
    -
    I don't really see goku surviving genjutsu, or this encounter in general.

  20. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 6:07 pm -      #2820

    I had assumed it was proven that Itachi could harm and quickly kill Goku long ago, if he had the chance. If that’s not the case, it’s a problem.
    ~
    I do not know all the differences between “regular” Genjutsu and Tsukuyomi, or even if these two are being discussed separately here. Tsukuyomi is apparently what Itachi would use though, and I’m skeptical on the subject of Goku being put out of commission by it after all he’s been through.
    ~
    How well do other victims of Tsukuyomi compare to Goku in terms of pain experience, determination and willpower? And exactly what affect does Tsukuyomi leave on them after it ends? Scans or videos would be nice.
    ~
    I see no reason for Goku to not release energy all around him if he thinks he’s being tortured for days but can still see itachi’s ki signature. Is there one?

  21. Storm117 March 5, 2013 at 6:09 pm -      #2821

    and yes people have been able to attack while their opponent has been stuck in genjutsu, like when naruto had to fight the clone guys in the chuunin exam, or how sasuke was casting genjutsu on the sensory ninja, or when edo madara, trapped the raikage in a genjutsu while fighting the others.
    -
    just tsyukonimi happens so fast in the world barely a moment will pass before its over.
    -
    thats the whole point.
    -
    well that and the cheeseburger and fries, but besides that, that is indeed everything :D

  22. TheSorrow March 5, 2013 at 6:24 pm -      #2822

    That’s…. Not true.
    -
    I just said “cannot, or will not”

  23. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 6:30 pm -      #2823

    Soul asked some good questions.
    -
    Also are all the things mentioned in Itachis Character? To do some of his strongest moves from the beginning as implied? I don’t know if this was answered already or not. I know genjutsu or what not but is it in character to afterwards open up with Black fire or The Spirtit Blade? And if so some scans would be nice

  24. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 6:33 pm -      #2824

    @TheSorrow
    “I just said “cannot, or will not””
    -
    And like I said, that not true.
    -
    Incapacitating someone while you attack is what genjutsu is most often used for in the manga.
    -
    And just off the top of my head I remember him using it to make a bunch of throwing stars look like a flock of ravens.

  25. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 6:37 pm -      #2825

    And just off the top of my head I remember him using it to make a bunch of throwing stars look like a flock of ravens.
    -
    Thats a pretty small scale genjutsu though, compared to something like couldn’t take all that much concentration and any such attack while goku is in the Genjutsu will still have to overcome Goku’s durability.

  26. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 6:38 pm -      #2826

    So he attacked once while using genjutsu,but that was off the top of your head. Anybody remember anymore?

  27. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 6:39 pm -      #2827

    Compared to something like *the frog genjutsu or Stuffing a raven into Narutos mouth*

  28. Storm117 March 5, 2013 at 6:47 pm -      #2828

    @ammo
    yes this is all in Itachi’s character, i mean for no reason at all he showed his brother him murdering his whole clan, when his brother was only 6, and did the same thing later one.
    -
    itachi is definetly one to attack and injure others for no particular reason. I mean in genjutsu, he nearly incinerated kakashi’s clone, stabbed kakash for 72 hours, throw multiple shurikens at naruto, ripped off half of naruto’s face, created a sakura in his belly, stuffed a crow inside his throat and made sasuke believe that he had ripped out his eye.
    -
    these things i posted earlier in differnt video’s and manga scans.
    -

  29. TheSorrow March 5, 2013 at 6:48 pm -      #2829

    And like I said, that not true.
    -
    *Sigh* “Will not” meaning he can attack, but chooses not to. But let me ask this question, can the Genjutsu caster use other techniques along side the illusion?

  30. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 6:52 pm -      #2830

    @TheSorrow
    “*Sigh* “Will not” meaning he can attack, but chooses not to. But let me ask this question, can the Genjutsu caster use other techniques along side the illusion?”
    -
    Like I’ve been saying, yes.
    -
    I’m not even sure where this thread is getting the idea that they can’t, it seems to just be something the Goku side has made up out of lack of knowledge of Naruto, and now or trying to make the Naruto side prove isn’t true… When they themselves just made it up in the first place….

  31. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 6:54 pm -      #2831

    “yes this is all in Itachi’s character, i mean for no reason at all he showed his brother him murdering his whole clan, when his brother was only 6, and did the same thing later one.”
    -
    wasn’t that to make Sasuke hate him giving him a reason to get strong and all that jazz?To make Sasuke hate the leaf village or something like that?
    -
    “itachi is definetly one to attack and injure others for no particular reason. I mean in genjutsu, he nearly incinerated kakashi’s clone, stabbed kakash for 72 hours, throw multiple shurikens at naruto, ripped off half of naruto’s face, created a sakura in his belly, stuffed a crow inside his throat and made sasuke believe that he had ripped out his eye.”
    -
    All this while in genjutsu Im talking immediately after He is out of genjutsu,what does his character show him doing?

  32. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 6:56 pm -      #2832

    Description: naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsukuyomi#cite_note-2

    On Kakashi: (One of the strongest characters in the show)
    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v16/c142/17.html

    On Sauske (Still young)
    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v17/c147/14.html

    Tsuande is brought in to heal them
    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v20/c172/14.html

    Both were hospitalized and it took the strongest healer in the ninja world to fix them. Also note, Itachi wasn’t trying to kill either of them.

    It’s not a matter of physical durability. Genjutsu is illusion and Tsukuyomi deals intense psychological damage. Also in case there is any more confusion, Itachi can and regularly does move and even attack while using genjutsu.

    Also depending on the genjutsu, you can’t really do anything, unless Itachi allows it. And remember, Tsukuyomi only lasts a few seconds in real time. I don’t see how Goku can break out of Itachi’s genjutsu techniques without having a separate ki source and the ability to focus or control his senses.

    But anyway, let’s focus on Amaterasu. Does anyone here think Goku can survive it?

  33. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 6:56 pm -      #2833

    Well if there are sparse showings of attacking while in genjutsu, for itachi espacially, then I can see why DBZ side has this doubt.

  34. TheSorrow March 5, 2013 at 6:56 pm -      #2834

    Like I’ve been saying, yes.
    -
    Can I have a scan for that? I don’t recall any Genjutsu user being able to use another jutsu while casting the illusion.

  35. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 6:59 pm -      #2835

    @Amm

    7:48
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQpToDROWM

  36. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 6:59 pm -      #2836

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHZKpuvR1ZI
    -
    Goku can still power up to SS in this state after taking a beating from Fireza Who can dish out more physical puinishment than itachi’s wildest dreams. Granted itachi isn’t dealing with Physical punishment but the Reason Kakashi folds is the pain. Goku has taken more pain than kakashi too, The scan from DB on Korins tower’s divine water lends credence to that.

  37. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 7:00 pm -      #2837

    @everyone
    while naruto was in Itachi’s genjutsu, Itachi was fighting kakashi. :)

  38. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:03 pm -      #2838

    I will need some context to go with that video

  39. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:03 pm -      #2839

    As I said, it’s not physical pain. It’s mental. There is no comparison between being beaten down physically and being beaten down mentally. Kakashi folds from the brain damage. Kakashi can take a beating. He fought the Zombie Ninja swordsman AND still came back to help Naruto and took on Tobi. He put up a hell of a fight against Pain when his 6 paths invaded the leaf. It’s not about taking a punch.

  40. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:05 pm -      #2840

    @Amm

    Reanimated Itachi and Nagato were forced to fight Killer Bee and Naruto. Eventually Itachi hatched his plan and broke from the reanimation jutsu.

  41. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:05 pm -      #2841

    There is because getting hurt physically can effect you mentally and vice verse. And that can be verified by those who have been hurt on this thread

  42. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:07 pm -      #2842

    “Reanimated Itachi and Nagato were forced to fight Killer Bee and Naruto. Eventually Itachi hatched his plan and broke from the reanimation jutsu.”
    -
    Gracias,Ok now I know what I looked at

  43. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 7:11 pm -      #2843

    kakashi has gone through so much mental trauma. his father commitd suicide, his mother died. all his friends were killed, as he stated all his friends died. He was apparently forced to kill his best firend Rin, and had to leave obito to die under the rocks. his master minato was devoured by an evil death god, he also went through the Anbu training which beats all emtoins from your body.
    -
    kakashi has gone through hell and has somehow made it through unscathed,he also has the sharingan which allows the user ot see through genjutsu, and then after all of that one look into Itachi’s eyes would’ve killed him without tsunades help.
    -
    so if Itachi without trying to kill him could do that, imagine the amount of pain goku would be in when itachi would be trying ot kill him?
    -
    Kakoroet would be dead.

  44. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:11 pm -      #2844

    It can, but this is a very significant extreme. Everybody that can take a punch can’t take being mentally raped. One doesn’t prepare you for the other.

  45. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 7:12 pm -      #2845

    @TheSorrow
    “Can I have a scan for that? I don’t recall any Genjutsu user being able to use another jutsu while casting the illusion.”
    -
    Also just off the top of my head.
    -
    www.mangapanda.com/93-20-13/naruto/chapter-15.html
    -
    www.mangapanda.com/93-20-14/naruto/chapter-15.html
    -
    www.mangapanda.com/93-20-15/naruto/chapter-15.html
    -
    Can’t hunt for more very easily right now, I might get back to it later if no one else does, but really, where did you get this idea, it’s *never* been said, much less shown to be the case.

  46. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:16 pm -      #2846

    One doesn’t prepare you for the other but if that mental assualt was just “torturing” you by stabbing you and you know this and are adept at being stabbed you would be better pressed against said assualt that someone not adept at being stabbed

  47. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:22 pm -      #2847

    Unfortunately in this case, the torturer knows all your innermost thoughts and fears so will torture you accordingly.

  48. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 7:22 pm -      #2848

    It can, but this is a very significant extreme. Everybody that can take a punch can’t take being mentally raped. One doesn’t prepare you for the other.
    -
    The problem i see is Itachi tends to use the sensation of pain to deal the mental damage. The incident with Sasuke and naruto was a lot different, In Sasuke’s case he was six year old Watching his clan get slaughtered in front of his eyes play by play. In Naruto’s case Itachi would easily have the Intel on Naruto’s team and close friends, He was a target of Akatsuki. Itachi is going to have no intel here to use real mental anguish. He will attempt to use Tsukiyomi to induce 72 hours of the sensations of pain for goku to deal with afterward.

  49. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:25 pm -      #2849

    We don’t even know Gokus innermost fears do we? besides Needles

  50. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:25 pm -      #2850

    Goku’s at a disadvantage here. We haven’t seem him withstand that kind of assault before and he has no familiarity with genjutsu. Kakashi knew the technique, had a Sharingan, and STILL almost died or became of vegetable.

  51. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 7:25 pm -      #2851

    Unfortunately in this case, the torturer knows all your innermost thoughts and fears so will torture you accordingly.
    -
    Itachi can’t read minds has never read a mind.

  52. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:26 pm -      #2852

    Needles, failing to save everyone, running out of food, and Chi Chi getting angry

  53. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 7:28 pm -      #2853

    @dassedec
    actually you are wrong there. when he was fighting naruto, he didn’t know who sakura was, didn’t know sakura’s promise to naruto, didn’t know about gaara’s pain, and didn’t know baout naruto’s fears. yet in that one exhange, Itachi found out all of naruto’s fears and applied them to him, scaringhim.
    -

  54. TheSorrow March 5, 2013 at 7:29 pm -      #2854

    Can’t hunt for more very easily right now, I might get back to it later if no one else does, but really, where did you get this idea, it’s *never* been said, much less shown to be the case.
    -
    The idea that they might not have the ability to use two different kinds of jutsu’s at once? I just have never seen it happen, that’s why. Or I have seen it, and just forgot about it. I don’t see why you have to be so aggressive though.

  55. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:29 pm -      #2855

    Needles yes ofcourse, Failing to save everyone,he has been through that so,that effect may not be to bad comparativly speaking
    -
    Running out of food,I don’t know honestly if that was ever expressed as a fear
    -
    Chi Chi getting angry,Again I don’t know we have seen him do things to anger her before

  56. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:31 pm -      #2856

    That is 100% false. You haven’t been following the series. He can enter somebody’s brain and play with their senses, but he can’t figure out what they’re thinking? Seriously? And in the latest chapters he actually needed to read a mind to turn the tide of the war. He needed to break the reanimation Jutsu, but only Kabuto knew how. Killing Kabuto wouldn’t stop it so he needed to get it out of his head with genjutsu. He eventually trapped Kabuto in his mind due to taking advantage of his inner most fear and then scanned through his mind in order to grab the information about stopping the jutsu. Do not make statements unless you’re actually sure.

  57. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 7:32 pm -      #2857

    everyone has a fear, to claim that goku doesn’t have one is NLF. It may not have been revealed, but it is possible.
    -

  58. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:34 pm -      #2858

    @Amm

    But he usually succeeds in the end. Everybody dying and him losing to the person that did it with nobody left would hurt. Goku is obsessed with food, but that was a joke. And EVERYBODY is afraid of Chi Chi when she gets mad. But yeah, Itachi would figure it out very quickly. I wonder what else he fears.

  59. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 7:34 pm -      #2859

    actually you are wrong there. when he was fighting naruto, he didn’t know who sakura was, didn’t know sakura’s promise to naruto, didn’t know about gaara’s pain, and didn’t know baout naruto’s fears. yet in that one exhange, Itachi found out all of naruto’s fears and applied them to him, scaringhim.
    -
    Your trying to tell me that Itachi wouldn’t know all these people close to a person his group is targeting? Thats a gross injustice to Itachi’s Intelligence, He Knew who was part of Sasuke’s team, was in contact with the 3rd on Akatsuki’s movements, He Knew naruto from being a target. Never once has he displayed Mind reading outside that scene. And to Reiterate If you are targetting a partuicular individualand you are a genius of planning an such. You get to know your target and their relationships with those close to them it’s just good business

  60. The Guardian in the TARDIS March 5, 2013 at 7:38 pm -      #2860

    fuck this made it to popular posts.

  61. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 7:38 pm -      #2861

    @TheSorrow
    “The idea that they might not have the ability to use two different kinds of jutsu’s at once? I just have never seen it happen, that’s why. Or I have seen it, and just forgot about it. I don’t see why you have to be so aggressive though.”
    -
    More aggressive to the “I, with no real bases besides that I say it’s so, say this is so, now prove it isn’t.” thing, rather then to you.
    -
    Not having read all that thread, I don’t even know if your to one who started this idea or not, so don’t really have any reason to blame you personally for it.
    -
    As far as the “two different kinds of jutsu’s at once”, that’s mainly as they only have the two hands, their fine if it’s something that doesn’t need to same body part to cast(like doing a jutsu while water walking).
    -
    The thing about Genjutsu that the thread doesn’t seem to be getting, is though some(like those to interrogate and the like) can be “maintained”, most just seem to be “cast and forget”.
    -
    But hell, I can’t even remember anything implying that they couldn’t use other jutsu while maintaining one, and I think it’s even happened before.

  62. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 7:40 pm -      #2862

    @everyone
    ahh man everything ahs once more broken down into stuff discussed earlier. I thought we were all in agreement that once Goku is in Genjutsu he would bite the dust?
    -
    unless i heard wrong?
    -
    excluding Tarbel and soul of course, since they are just joining

  63. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:40 pm -      #2863

    “everyone has a fear, to claim that goku doesn’t have one is NLF. It may not have been revealed, but it is possible.”
    -
    Did I say he didn’t have a fear?

  64. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:41 pm -      #2864

    -
    “Your trying to tell me that Itachi wouldn’t know all these people close to a person his group is targeting? Thats a gross injustice to Itachi’s Intelligence, He Knew who was part of Sasuke’s team, was in contact with the 3rd on Akatsuki’s movements, He Knew naruto from being a target. Never once has he displayed Mind reading outside that scene. And to Reiterate If you are targetting a partuicular individualand you are a genius of planning an such. You get to know your target and their relationships with those close to them it’s just good business”

    I already gave a mind reading feat in my post. So this argument is dead.

  65. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 7:42 pm -      #2865

    The mind-reading ability can be proven with simple piece of evidence.
    ~
    Since I guess Itachi can move whilst using Genjutsu like I originally thought, he should be able to use it and kill Goku. He can still kill him, right?

  66. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 7:42 pm -      #2866

    @ammo
    no I was just making a statement, in case others think so.
    -
    don’t worry i understand what you meant, and i apologize

  67. TheSorrow March 5, 2013 at 7:42 pm -      #2867

    That’s why I want clarification if Itachi can in fact do both. Such as use a regular Genjutsu to distract Goku, then use Amasterasu while he has his attention elsewhere.

  68. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 7:45 pm -      #2868

    @soulerous
    yes. I can see no reason why Itachi wouldn’t be able to move while he has an opponent in a genjutsu.
    -

  69. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:45 pm -      #2869

    “But he usually succeeds in the end. Everybody dying and him losing to the person that did it with nobody left would hurt. Goku is obsessed with food, but that was a joke. And EVERYBODY is afraid of Chi Chi when she gets mad. But yeah, Itachi would figure it out very quickly. I wonder what else he fears.”
    -
    Yea but I was saying he has gone through losing Krillen his best friend,Buu destroyed the earth didn’t he so his main thing to protect was destroyed so thats like his whole family and friends that weren’t where They fought buu.So basically that wouldn’t be as detramental as we’d think it should/would be.
    -
    And the other point is what I was talking about all his fears are there for comedic effect and I mean compare the damage out put of chi chi and needles combined,Goku has taken far more damage

  70. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:46 pm -      #2870

    “Since I guess Itachi can move whilst using Genjutsu like I originally thought, he should be able to use it and kill Goku. He can still kill him, right?”

    That’s what I wanted to focus on, but got sidetracked by Dassadec claiming Itachi can’t read minds. He can still kill him, yes. There was debate about the Totskua blade but Tsukuyomi can be used to kill, Amaterasu should melt Goku, and Itachi can make people kill themselves without them realizing it.

  71. Tarbel March 5, 2013 at 7:46 pm -      #2871

    “That is 100% false. You haven’t been following the series. He can enter somebody’s brain and play with their senses, but he can’t figure out what they’re thinking? Seriously? And in the latest chapters he actually needed to read a mind to turn the tide of the war. He needed to break the reanimation Jutsu, but only Kabuto knew how. Killing Kabuto wouldn’t stop it so he needed to get it out of his head with genjutsu. He eventually trapped Kabuto in his mind due to taking advantage of his inner most fear and then scanned through his mind in order to grab the information about stopping the jutsu. Do not make statements unless you’re actually sure.”
    -
    -
    Scans for Itachi “scanning” Kabuto’s mind. I’m fairly certain Itachi only tricked Kabuto into telling him the hand seal signs, and that is while Kabuto was still under Izanami.
    -
    -
    -
    view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+13&page=88
    -
    Kid Goku withstood pain that had killed 14 other expert martial artists who tried it (experts rivaling that of Master Roshi since they were able to climb Korin’s Tower). Even Korin himself couldn’t take it and threw it up.
    Goku on the other hand took the pain for over 6 hours.

  72. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 7:53 pm -      #2872

    Mental and emotional damage comes from experiencing unpleasant things. If these unpleasant things are illusory then they cause the same kind of pain and damage that Goku would have received by going through any other unpleasant thing in his life.

  73. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 7:55 pm -      #2873

    “Mental and emotional damage comes from experiencing unpleasant things. If these unpleasant things are illusory then they cause the same kind of pain and damage that Goku would have received by going through any other unpleasant thing in his life.”
    -
    This is what I was saying but this is easier to understand

  74. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 7:57 pm -      #2874

    “Scans for Itachi “scanning” Kabuto’s mind. I’m fairly certain Itachi only tricked Kabuto into telling him the hand seal signs, and that is while Kabuto was still under Izanami.”

    We really need to stop wasting time on these types of arguments:

    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c588/3.html

    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c589/6.html

  75. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 7:57 pm -      #2875

    I already gave a mind reading feat in my post. So this argument is dead.
    -
    mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v61/c587/11.html
    NO way thats mind reading, thats Knowing Kabuto’s personality. And a standard genjutsu domination to make Kabuto do as he wanted same as making someone choke themself
    mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v62/c588/8.html

  76. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 8:01 pm -      #2876

    And that is where the last mini back and forth came from
    -
    Goku has been through alot, Mental and Physical damage wise every fight,every injury,every loss,every death. All the training and working out

  77. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 8:01 pm -      #2877

    mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v62/c589/12.html
    - It’s not like he reads his mind, He makes Kabuto perfom the seals is all

  78. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:02 pm -      #2878

    Here’s more. @Dassadec refer to my reply to tarbel

    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v29/c259/16.html

    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v29/c259/17.html

    www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v29/c259/18.html

  79. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:07 pm -      #2879

    “Mental and emotional damage comes from experiencing unpleasant things. If these unpleasant things are illusory then they cause the same kind of pain and damage that Goku would have received by going through any other unpleasant thing in his life.”

    But it can be amplified. And the emotional trauma is often worse than the physical. He can make him relive the worst moments and change them, and create ones he hasn’t had before.

  80. Shgon Dunstan March 5, 2013 at 8:09 pm -      #2880

    @sadot06 in post##2878
    -
    I’d say that chance are that that’s less “mind reading” and more “genjutsu makes them see what they fear”.
    -
    Which as far as the thread goes…. Pretty much mean the same thing, as it doesn’t really matter if Itachi learns the info, so long as the genjutsu uses it.

  81. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 8:10 pm -      #2881

    But it can be amplified. And the emotional trauma is often worse than the physical. He can make him relive the worst moments and change them, and create ones he hasn’t had before.
    -Yes, all very true. You think it would it completely break him?

  82. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 8:10 pm -      #2882

    “But it can be amplified. And the emotional trauma is often worse than the physical. He can make him relive the worst moments and change them, and create ones he hasn’t had before.”
    -
    The worst moment in Gokus History being when Krillen Died,I say this is the worst because he went super saiyan after this.
    -
    How amplified? But we don’t really know he would change things to do we?

  83. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:13 pm -      #2883

    Dassadec, I provided proof showing Itachi can read thoughts which shouldn’t be necessary to prove when we’re talking about a guy who controls people’s minds, plants illusions, and alters senses. Stop trolling or you will be ignored.

  84. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:15 pm -      #2884

    “The worst moment in Gokus History being when Krillen Died,I say this is the worst because he went super saiyan after this.
    -
    How amplified? But we don’t really know he would change things to do we?”

    He could do anything he wants, he’s got imagination and he’s a genius. He could add Chi Chi and Gohan. Or he can make Goku think that he killed Krillin, not Frieza. He can change the whole outcome of the Namek saga.

  85. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 8:17 pm -      #2885

    Sorry, I have to write a summary for my sake.
    ~
    Itachi can use Genjutsu and Tsukuyomi on Goku. He can move and attack while using Genjutsu, and Tsukuyomi is over in a second or so and he’s never displayed the ability to move while using it. Itachi would use Tsukuyomi first.
    ~
    Is any of that wrong? It’s honestly hard to get a simple answer without it being argued or overstated.

  86. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 8:18 pm -      #2886

    I’d say that chance are that that’s less “mind reading” and more “genjutsu makes them see what they fear”.
    -
    Pretty much my point, And since when am I a troll on this site? Really? Anyone?

  87. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 8:19 pm -      #2887

    @everyone
    I am really busy with homework, finals week and all, but here are some closing remarks for me before I get back to work.
    -
    can Itachi read minds? this is semi-irrelavant to the debate, but from what we have seen it is very likely.
    -
    Can itachi move well his opponent is in a genjutsu, of course, does anyone not remember the chuunin exams? www.narutoget.com/watch/196-naruto-episode-36-english-dubbed/
    shows naruto’s gang fighting a genjutsu, well the caster threw kunia at them. in any case well naruto was in itachi’s genjutsu, Itachi was fighting kakashi in hand to hand combat. so while goku struggling with an illusion, Itachi can simply amertersu him into nonexistence
    -
    can goku tank genjutsu. doubt it, he hasn’t gone through 1/4 what kakashi has gone through nor has the sharingna that shielded kakashi from most damage. so goku’s unprotected mind vs 72 hours of pure brutal torture? goku is one dead saiyan.
    -
    I think that should cover all points accurately. though i have been wrong plenty of times before.
    -
    i am just glad the debate is ending and we can soon enounce a winner. :D
    -

  88. Soulerous March 5, 2013 at 8:23 pm -      #2888

    And since when am I a troll on this site? Really? Anyone?
    -You’re not, and I think we should leave accusations of trolling out of this. We have enough obstacles to conquer.

  89. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 8:26 pm -      #2889

    “He could do anything he wants, he’s got imagination and he’s a genius. He could add Chi Chi and Gohan. Or he can make Goku think that he killed Krillin, not Frieza. He can change the whole outcome of the Namek saga.”
    -
    And that is where the NLF comes in “anything” he wants has to be backed by showings,the examples you gave he probably could/would do but I would need feats of him doing this to someone else

  90. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:29 pm -      #2890

    Itachi can use Genjutsu and Tsukuyomi on Goku. He can move and attack while using Genjutsu, and Tsukuyomi is over in a second or so and he’s never displayed the ability to move while using it. Itachi would use Tsukuyomi first.
    ~
    “Is any of that wrong? It’s honestly hard to get a simple answer without it being argued or overstated.”

    -
    Sounds pretty much right. We haven’t seem him move during Tsukuyomi, though he’s never had reason to.

  91. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 8:30 pm -      #2891

    How does the caster doing Genjutsu and throwing Kunai correlate to Being able to Black Flame? I mean on one hand, you have a throwing knife on the other a powerful jutsu.

  92. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 8:31 pm -      #2892

    @ soul
    Thanks, man. I try to respect the Pile.

  93. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:32 pm -      #2893

    His imagination isn’t a NLF. It’s a fact that he can create whatever scenario he wants with Tsukuyomi. I posted 3 different links of him using Tsukuyomi on 3 different people using 3 different scenarios.

  94. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 8:34 pm -      #2894

    And those 3 different scenarios are the proof you can use to back a claim up. But saying he can do what he wants because of imagination doesn’t fly.
    -
    It never has and never will
    -
    If it did rudy from chalkzone would stomp anyone on here

  95. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:35 pm -      #2895

    What he did to Bee wasn’t a powerful genjutsu. It was one of the generic Sharingan genjutsu. Still incredibly effective, but it wasn’t a strain on him.

  96. Motor314 March 5, 2013 at 8:37 pm -      #2896

    one of itachi’s eyes uses tysukonimi one of itachi’s eye is genjutsu

  97. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:39 pm -      #2897

    I didn’t say he can do what he wants. Put it in context. You asked what kind of scenario he would think up. I said anything he wants and gave examples. That isn’t remotely NLF. It’s literally whatever he decides to do. The conversation was an issue of choice, not ability.

  98. Dassadec March 5, 2013 at 8:40 pm -      #2898

    With this I leave this thread to you guys, for all the time i’ve been supporting goku I still Think Itachi takes it, my view hasnt changed. I bid You all Adieu and put my +1 on Itachi
    -
    And Sadot when someone comes to a different conclusion than you it doesn’t make them a troll I just didn’t see it as Mind reading so much as manipulation like any genjutsu.
    Hell I even posted the same scans you did and you accuse me of trolling/ ignoring shit… Bad form…

  99. Amm0vamp1r3 March 5, 2013 at 8:40 pm -      #2899

    “Whatever he wants” is my problem with this,I see what you’re saying and my wording could have been better,but answering with “whatever he wants” will always end in a NLF claim

  100. sadot06 March 5, 2013 at 8:41 pm -      #2900

    “one of itachi’s eyes uses tysukonimi one of itachi’s eye is genjutsu”

    Both of Itachi’s eyes use genjutsu. When the Mangekyo is active, one eye can perform Amaterasu, the other performs Tsukuyomi.

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