Goku Vs Itachi Uchiha

Goku (Dragonball Z) Vs Itachi Uchiha (Naruto)

Here is a match in which I’ll confess to not know much other than that Goku can go head to head with Superman, so that must mean something.

So, dear reader, who wins this fight?

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1,961 Comments on "Goku Vs Itachi Uchiha"

  1. Mike February 23, 2013 at 7:59 pm -      #1801

    “chakra not power. no one in their right mind can claim the nine tials can bust a planet
    -
    do you agree that the nine tails chakra can equal goku’s”
    -did you ask this after saying this with a straight face? it makes no sense. goku is a planet buster via his chakra/ki levels. if the nine tails has no feats to compare to that, then why in the world would someone accept that they are equal?
    -
    -
    put actual scans of why you think it is so strong

  2. Max81 February 23, 2013 at 8:01 pm -      #1802

    @mike
    post #1749.
    it shows that the ten tails created all chakra all life.
    -
    the ten tails is immeasurable chakra
    -
    the nine tails has a large portion of that power,
    -
    therefore nine tails chakra can equal goku’s base form ki.
    -
    does that make sense?

  3. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 8:01 pm -      #1803

    No because if Nine Tails had just as much chakra as Goku had ki then he could planet bust. He can’t so he doesn’t. I will not yield because yu guys can not prove your claim at all.

  4. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 8:07 pm -      #1804

    Immeasurible is a NLF adn a statement that means nothing because it gets throw around a lot. Freeza was immeasurible, Cell was immeasurible, Buu was immeasurible. Hell at one point Goku was immeasurible. That is one of the most useless and untrust worthy statements a character can make about someone’s power.

  5. Max81 February 23, 2013 at 8:07 pm -      #1805

    @tkog
    why does the amoutn of chakra have to equal destructive force?
    -
    p.s are you mad?

  6. Dassadec February 23, 2013 at 8:09 pm -      #1806

    Immeasurable : I don’t think even 10 tails would cause a scouter to overload. I’d say Kurama has Goku levels of Ki/chakra as Goku in the saiyan saga

  7. Motor314 February 23, 2013 at 8:11 pm -      #1807

    @dassadec
    thank you for backing me up.

  8. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 8:13 pm -      #1808

    Then how else would he be equal to Goku in energy if he couldn’t do the same thing he could with it?

  9. Mike February 23, 2013 at 8:14 pm -      #1809

    i don’t see anything in your scans that show infinite chakra or even showings of it being all chakra. it says it began chakra, not that it has a lot.
    -
    -
    “why does the amoutn of chakra have to equal destructive force?”
    -because it’s force that is going to have to be used to manipulate force here. itachi’s force manipulating goku’s force. and goku’s force is constantly used to countering other forces. it wouldn’t matter how much chakra nine tails had when it was controlled if the force required to manipulate it isn’t gauged in power. all the force in a nonspecific universe is not proven to be stronger than anything until shown to be. it’s like putting a meaningless number to things, say itachi has 999 billion chakra level. what does that mean? nothing until it’s proven what it can do with that much chakra.

  10. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 8:18 pm -      #1810

    I’d say Kurama has Goku levels of Ki/chakra as Goku in the saiyan saga
    -
    Beginning of the Saiyan Saga at best is my guess.

  11. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 8:20 pm -      #1811

    Sad part is even if they are equal which they aren’t Itach still can’t control him. Seeing how only people as skilled as Madra and Obito have been show to pull it off and Itachi is no where near their level in skill or power.

  12. Max81 February 23, 2013 at 8:24 pm -      #1812

    @tkog and mike
    jeez you guys are really making a fuss. over nothing
    -
    Goku was taught to turn his ki into world destroying energy blasts
    -
    naruto characters were taught to create lightning cast jutus.
    -
    if the naruto character entered goku’s world and had their training. i would wager they could easily bust planets.
    -
    jeez you guys are funny.
    -
    you guys still have no proof whatsover goku has a planets worth of energy in him, for all we know he could have a tenth.
    -
    I have watched all dbz and never once have they ever said that goku has a planets worth of energy. if anything it says different.
    -
    Goku when using a planets energy, in a spirit bomb, people are remarking how the energy dwarfs goku’s.
    -
    you guys really love tongue biting, motor shows more proof then even i a dbz wanker can show. and you reject it and use dumbest comeback ever
    -
    “so what if the nine tials that much chakra, goku can destroy a planet so its irrelevant”
    -
    seriously if you two aren’t going to take this debate serious. please leave. I don’t want this debate turning into goku vs dante.

  13. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 8:26 pm -      #1813

    Your a joke because he’s shown proof of nothing. The fact that Goku’s Namek base has more power then Freeza’s weakest form that destroy a planet bigger and denser then earth tells us that he has planet busting power.

  14. Storm117 February 23, 2013 at 8:28 pm -      #1814

    ^sigh.

  15. Mike February 23, 2013 at 8:32 pm -      #1815

    “@tkog and mike
    jeez you guys are really making a fuss. over nothing
    -
    Goku was taught to turn his ki into world destroying energy blasts
    -
    naruto characters were taught to create lightning cast jutus.
    -
    if the naruto character entered goku’s world and had their training. i would wager they could easily bust planets. ”
    -it’s not nothing, what you are doing right there is using completely unbacked speculation on this fact based site.
    -
    -
    “you guys still have no proof whatsover goku has a planets worth of energy in him, for all we know he could have a tenth. ”
    -this has already been literally shown. roshi blows up the moon with a kamehameha which is a direct transference of energy from the body to the attack at roughly 200 powerlevel. goku base form is 3,000,000 about half way through the series. planet level energy is probably literally in his pinky.
    -
    -
    “I have watched all dbz and never once have they ever said that goku has a planets worth of energy. if anything it says different. ”
    -try not listening for what you want to hear, and try instead to study the attacks, how they work, who can do what with them, and then how that pertains to their power level.
    -
    -
    “Goku when using a planets energy, in a spirit bomb, people are remarking how the energy dwarfs goku’s. ”
    -maybe, but that doesn’t change what they have shown to have in them and be able to exert with it. besides, it takes power from everything, including the other fighters. i’d also like to see where they said this.
    -
    -
    “seriously if you two aren’t going to take this debate serious. please leave. I don’t want this debate turning into goku vs dante.”
    -no matter what you think, it’s a completely legitimate point that you need to address

  16. PrimusxPilus February 23, 2013 at 8:33 pm -      #1816

    @max
    You really just made yourself look like an idiot

  17. Storm117 February 23, 2013 at 8:33 pm -      #1817

    @tkog
    I encourage you to reread motors posts. he has shown alot of evidence, lots of pics, scans, and videos.
    -
    also the ability to destroy a planet and having a planets worth of energy are two very different things. just so you know.
    -
    for example the death stars lazer did that lazer have more energy than a planet. nope. not at all. it was a durable and powerfully refined lazer that dug through the planet and destroyed it.
    -
    so please stop claiming Goku must have multiple planets worth of energy in him since he can bust multiple planets.
    -
    thats not how things work. its about creating a lazer that destroys a planet.

  18. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 8:35 pm -      #1818

    if the naruto character entered goku’s world and had their training. i would wager they could easily bust planets.
    -
    There has never been evidence for that though. The best we have so far is mountain/city busting and a kind of not really Moon busting claim from an ancient legend.
    -
    you guys still have no proof whatsover goku has a planets worth of energy in him, for all we know he could have a tenth.
    -
    Ki applies to everything in DBZ, if he didn’t have the ki, he wouldn’t be able to stand up against characters who could destroy planets.
    -
    if anything it says different.
    -
    How so?
    -
    Goku when using a planets energy, in a spirit bomb, people are remarking how the energy dwarfs goku’s.
    -
    I’m not seeing your point. Are you implying that because the Spirit Bomb never destroyed a planet, that Goku has the inability to do so?

  19. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 8:39 pm -      #1819

    His proof was a statement that means nothing except the Ten Tails is really powerful compared to them. The Sharingan stuff states itself that only powerful users like Madra and Obito have been able to control Tailed Beast. He would need planet level power to destroy it in the first place.

  20. Mike February 23, 2013 at 8:40 pm -      #1820

    “I encourage you to reread motors posts. he has shown alot of evidence, lots of pics, scans, and videos.”
    -i have seen them, they do not prove his point at all.
    -
    -
    “also the ability to destroy a planet and having a planets worth of energy are two very different things. just so you know.”
    -it does when the energy comes from the person doing the destroying.
    -
    -
    “for example the death stars lazer did that lazer have more energy than a planet. nope. not at all. it was a durable and powerfully refined lazer that dug through the planet and destroyed it.”
    -are you trying to bring up the argument about ambient energy of every kind that can come from breaking bonds of matter and such? the laser had the energy to break apart the planet and expand all debri fast enough to break the gravitational pull of the planet as a whole. it’s called blowing up a planet. all the active energy of the planet was therefore overwhelmed by the energy of the laser. so yes, the laser did have more energy than the planet was actively using.

  21. Motor314 February 23, 2013 at 8:41 pm -      #1821

    @max
    and you called me an idiot
    -
    @everyone.
    i see that this isn’t going anywhere. its obvious that naruto characters aren’t going to be busting planets anytime soon.
    -
    and since that is the feat the tkog and mike really really really want.
    -
    winning this debate for itachi is near impossible
    -
    however the majority agrees that itachi can put goku in a genjutsu. also i believe my argument right now can resolve this.
    -
    are you all ready?
    -
    brace yourself

  22. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 8:45 pm -      #1822

    If Itachi can’t even put a Tailed Beast under a genjutsu how is he going to do it to Goku who is way stronger then one?

  23. Mike February 23, 2013 at 8:47 pm -      #1823

    “however the majority agrees that itachi can put goku in a genjutsu.”
    -just curious, but who are the majority here? seems about even to me.
    -also agreeing to something in no way means you have proven it, and this proof of massive amounts of force is directly connected to showing that itachi cannot do it. You have just admitted that they aren’t going to be busting planets, yet that is the amount of power that they would need at minimum to be able to start to argue that they can manipulate goku’s power. you have effectually just admitted to not being able to prove that itachi can genjutsu goku. that part of the argument should be over for you now until you feel like finding feats that put itachi’s chakra power on a planetary scale.

  24. Motor314 February 23, 2013 at 9:06 pm -      #1824

    @tkog and mike
    just the people who think that the genjutsu will work not win.
    Seradon, Katet, storm, max, ammo, Kadot, dassedec, shgon, primus, and me
    -
    anyway for my argument. First off, Goku’s massive ki, is focused solely in his stomach, this is where it is stored. as pointed it in dragonballz and confirmed by sorrow
    -
    so all of Goku’s massive world destorying energy is all focused in his chest.
    -
    this means that his mind isn’t guarded by all of this energy.
    -
    genjutsu affects the mind, where there is still some chakra/ki.
    -
    therefore, this makes goku’s energy simply pointless. and makes him more able to control
    -
    So there you have it. Itachi can catch goku in a genjutsu.
    -
    :) :) :)
    -
    @the sorrow
    Thank you
    -

  25. Mike February 23, 2013 at 9:12 pm -      #1825

    “anyway for my argument. First off, Goku’s massive ki, is focused solely in his stomach, this is where it is stored. as pointed it in dragonballz and confirmed by sorrow”
    -?what? where was this shown?
    -
    -
    “so all of Goku’s massive world destorying energy is all focused in his chest.
    -
    this means that his mind isn’t guarded by all of this energy. ”
    -i really have to see this since even as a child goku could take sniper rounds to his cheeks with no effect because of the ki in him making him tougher.

  26. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:15 pm -      #1826

    That’s if they lock eyes which probably wouldn’t happen. Itachi still has been shown to control anything as powerful as Goku sp I doubt it would work on him. Even if it caught him Goku would survive just fne since Itachi would have no idea what can hurt Goku in the genjutsu assuming it did work. There is alos the problem of Goku figuring out how to break free which shouldn’t take long because he’s a genus when it comes to battle. there is also being able to sense whne he’s about is about to make move meaning before the jutsu is casted Goku could attack Itachi. we also have no idea how close the two are at the start of the match meaning it could be a long range battle and Goku could just blast the shit out of Itachi.

  27. Motor314 February 23, 2013 at 9:18 pm -      #1827

    @mike
    i am not sure that had anything to do with ki. bear in mind saiyan skin may be stronger than humans. in any case, it doesn’t take much ki to deflect a bullet. maybe 20?
    -
    so do you think it was a good argument?

  28. Motor314 February 23, 2013 at 9:22 pm -      #1828

    so we are agreed that Itachi can catch goku in a genjutsu?
    -

  29. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:27 pm -      #1829

    No not really seeing how Goku would ahve to lock eyes with him which you guys just assume he would do. I mean you can look at someone and not have to lock eyes with them and Goku doesn’t it all the time with weak opponents. He didn’t lock eyes withh Nappa, Burter, Recoome, Jeice, or Yakon. There are many ways to read and test an opponent without locking eyes so I don’t see why Goku would have to here.

  30. Motor314 February 23, 2013 at 9:30 pm -      #1830

    @tkog
    besides the eyes locking thing. do you agree on goku falling in a genjutsu?
    -
    i want to finish that debate before starting a new one.
    -
    sorry but i want ot know.

  31. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:32 pm -      #1831

    No because Goku has so much power in his body even a little is more then what Itachi is used to.

  32. Mike February 23, 2013 at 9:32 pm -      #1832

    “i am not sure that had anything to do with ki. bear in mind saiyan skin may be stronger than humans. in any case, it doesn’t take much ki to deflect a bullet. maybe 20?”
    -ki is what makes them stronger/more durable.
    -claiming their skin is stronger is just ridiculous and baseless.
    -i am not going to speculate how much ki it takes to take a sniper round.
    -
    -
    “so we are agreed that Itachi can catch goku in a genjutsu?”
    -no
    -i want to see what evidence you ahve to goku’s ki being in his stomach. taking bullets to soft tissue on your face with no warning shows in itself that the ki is not only in his stomach.

  33. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:34 pm -      #1833

    Actually Mike it’s a fact that Saiyans are built tougher then humans. Remember before Goku even learned about Ki or trained with Roshi he could take bullets to head. Hell their planet has 10 times earth gravity and they just take it.

  34. Mike February 23, 2013 at 9:35 pm -      #1834

    they also have higher ki, which would explain everything itself.

  35. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:37 pm -      #1835

    Well let’s see with power level of 1 Goku hit his head after falling of a cliff. A human baby would have died but Goku lived and survived so that proves Saiyans are born tougher.

  36. Motor314 February 23, 2013 at 9:38 pm -      #1836

    @mike and tkog
    dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ki
    “This force is a tangible energy inside every living person, with its major focus being in the center of the body. By drawing it out, an individual is able to manipulate it and use it for performances outside the body.”
    -
    I was claiming that most of the energy is stored in the center, leaving the mind virtually unguarded.
    -
    sorry about the sniper shot, I do agree there is ki to protect him theire. however not enough to protect him from a genjutsu.
    -
    :)
    -
    i hope that helps.

  37. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:40 pm -      #1837

    Considering how strong Goku is there is mostly more then enough ki to stop Itachi. Not that it matters witht he whole he doesn’t have to lock eyes thing.

  38. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 9:43 pm -      #1838

    i want to see what evidence you ahve to goku’s ki being in his stomach.
    -
    dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ki I am also positive they have a scene explaining it at one point. If I can find it, I will post it.
    -
    Even though ki source is near the center, it does not mean that the other parts are susceptible to corruption. It’s just where it originates from.
    -
    And while Genjutsu would work in theory, in practice against someone like Goku, the results would be less than satisfactory.

  39. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 9:48 pm -      #1839

    Goku’s power level as baby was 5, which is about the same as an average adult.

  40. Mike February 23, 2013 at 9:51 pm -      #1840

    lowest i can find for goku is 10 in “The Evolution of Goku’s Power Level” in his first appearance. which is twice as strong as a grown farmer with a gun.
    -
    -
    dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ki
    “This force is a tangible energy inside every living person, with its major focus being in the center of the body. By drawing it out, an individual is able to manipulate it and use it for performances outside the body.”
    -get a real source, wikis don’t count. and if you are going to use a wiki, please at least read the next paragraph that says the maker of DB, Akira Toriyama says that 1 of the 3 parts that make up ki is the mind….
    “According to Akira Toriyama, ki is made up of three components: Genki (元気; lit. “Energy”), Yūki (勇気; lit. “Courage”) and Shōki (正気; lit. “Mind”). Also, ki can be “positive” or “negative”, depending on the user. ”
    -
    -
    “I was claiming that most of the energy is stored in the center, leaving the mind virtually unguarded.”
    -even if you brought legitimate evidence to show it is mainly in the center of the body, apparently with a power level of around 100 it still has enough presence in the head to block sniper rounds to the soft tissue of the cheek. now multiply that by 30,000 and you get base form goku at half way through the series.
    -
    -
    “I am also positive they have a scene explaining it at one point. If I can find it, I will post it.”
    -i would like to see that at some point. no rush, but i will not accept it until i see it.
    -
    -
    “Goku’s power level as baby was 5, which is about the same as an average adult.”
    -where did you get this from? the best place to find power levels for them that i could find was dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels which cites where the info comes from(episode/manga/book). the lowest i could find was 2 for a non canon movie when goku was in the birthing chamber still.

  41. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:54 pm -      #1841

    www.dragonballencyclopedia.com/wiki/List_of_battle_powers
    Sorry TheSorrow looks like it’s 2 when he was a baby and when he first appeared in it was 10.

  42. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 9:57 pm -      #1842

    Why the hell do people keep saying the Bardock movie is non canon when it explains how Freeza destroyed the planet? I mean Bardock was the last Saiyan Freeza saw and he Destroyed the planet from space so Bardock would have had to have been in space with him when it happened.

  43. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 9:59 pm -      #1843

    -i would like to see that at some point. no rush, but i will not accept it until i see it.
    -
    I figured as much. If I can’t find it, oh well, no big deal to me.
    -
    the lowest i could find was 2 for a non canon movie when goku was in the birthing chamber still.
    -
    Oh oops right it was 2 not 5. Don’t know where I got 5 from. I was also certain that the story of Bardock’s revolt against Frieza was pretty much canon.

  44. Mike February 23, 2013 at 9:59 pm -      #1844

    bardok is canon, that was from the brolly movie

  45. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:03 pm -      #1845

    Ah I was about to flip my shit about hearing that Bradock was non canon. So is Episode of Bardock counted as canon? I mean I think it is but I wonder some times. Wait if the Bardock special is canon why do peope say saiyans can;t breath in space.
    Hell even in the Manga Bardock is in space and breathing.
    manga-access.com/manga/D/Dragon_Ball/chapter/307/7

  46. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 10:08 pm -      #1846

    Well they can’t breathe in space, they just have incredible lung capacity.

  47. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:11 pm -      #1847

    He was flying and screaming Freeza out in the void of spcae how could he possibly not run out of air?

  48. Mike February 23, 2013 at 10:11 pm -      #1848

    yeah, nothing “breathes” space. maybe some sort of absorbtion of different radiation like photosynthesis or something, but “breath”? no. I’d honestly like to know how long saiyans can hold their breath, i think vs frieza goku did it for something like 4 minutes without showing any signs of stress.

  49. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:14 pm -      #1849

    Okay maybe breath is the wrong word but it seems like he didn’t need any oxygen while he was out there.

  50. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 10:14 pm -      #1850

    He was flying and screaming Freeza out in the void of spcae how could he possibly not run out of air?
    -
    Because it’s DBZ, so fuck logic. Besides, it was still relatively close to a planet, may still have oxygen, just not a whole lot.

  51. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:16 pm -      #1851

    The ship was way out of the planets orbit I doubt any form of gas was out there.

  52. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 10:18 pm -      #1852

    It would contradict Goku not being able to survive after Namek’s destruction though. Frieza’s entire plan to destroy it would have been pointless.

  53. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:20 pm -      #1853

    Freeza is kind of an arrogant bastard. Also I always figured he lied to Goku. I mean if Goku doesn’t know he can survive in space maybe he’ll sufficate himself. You know like how before Superman finally accepted his alien side he thought he needed air and food.

  54. Mike February 23, 2013 at 10:21 pm -      #1854

    “It would contradict Goku not being able to survive after Namek’s destruction though. Frieza’s entire plan to destroy it would have been pointless.”
    -not necessarily. with no where to go he would be stuck and starve to death. same way you would die if you took a modern space shuttle to some distant planet and then blew the planet up with the shuttle being ok. people in the shuttle will eventually die because of no planet.

  55. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:21 pm -      #1855

    Hell Vegeta seemed to think he would do fine if he destroyed earth and there was no way his ship would survive that.

  56. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 10:23 pm -      #1856

    He seemed to have a lot of trouble when Frieza was drowning him.

  57. TheSorrow February 23, 2013 at 10:26 pm -      #1857

    Hell Vegeta seemed to think he would do fine if he destroyed earth and there was no way his ship would survive that.
    -
    He was kind of enraged at the thought of a low-class warrior outdoing him. Rational thought wasn’t exactly on his mind. Same with trying to blow up Frieza and Namek.

  58. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:27 pm -      #1858

    It’s funny you bring that up because he clearly runs out of air and then suddenly breaks out of his grip. That part of him drowning also didn;t happen in the manga but whatever.

  59. The King of Games February 23, 2013 at 10:38 pm -      #1859

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyCeBG0Ng-A
    Goku fighting in space and it’s canon. Super Saiyan God. What the hell happened to this series?

  60. seradon February 24, 2013 at 1:36 am -      #1860

    A few things of note:
    _
    1) While we are told the ten-tails is the origin of chakra, it doesn’t exactly imply universal amounts of energy. Keep in mind Naruto’s setting is kept to a single world and there is no way of knowing whether all life in the universe adheres to the laws of chakra. Additionally, remember chakra is a combination of 2 different kinds of energy; it could be argued that the ten-tails merely acted upon to mix those two energies together. That is not to say it doesn’t have incredible power, but claiming universal without any sure proof, is basically a no-limits fallacy.
    _
    2) Goku has canonically fired a blast considered powerful enough to destroy the planet on a few occasions: the first being on the fight versus Vegeta when he overwhelms his Galik Gun, a second one when fighting Frieza (though my memory fails me on specifics), a notable third one with the instant kamehameha (mentioned by everyone, EVEN the villain that the blast would destroy the Earth if fired from the angle he was at). Additionally, Goku possesses a powered-up version of the Kamehameha (Super Kamehameha) which is normally considered to be around planet-busting levels (it’s merely a kamehameha with FAR more energy put into it); he can use this in base form.
    _
    3) Itachi may possibly win this with a Tsukuyomi (not gonna take sides on this as both sides have presented credible arguments), however it’s unlikely that he may use it right off the bat as it’s a technique with adverse side effects (large chakra depletion, causes blindness, etc) if Itachi uses Tsukuyomi and Goku can stand it he may not have enough chakra to put up a resistance. Itachi does consider it a last resorts of sorts as well, so he may not be so inclined to use it and rely on susanoo or regular ninjutsu instead.

  61. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 9:36 am -      #1861

    @everyone
    first off with the most important thing.
    Bardock isn’t cannon?
    -

  62. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 10:16 am -      #1862

    @everyone
    www.dbz.tv/3/watch/dragonball-episode-129/ is the episode with ki being discussed. however my interent is shorting out, so i don’t know if it provides any details on location of ki. I may not be able to be back on till tommorow.
    -
    Until then I’ll add some more information about the debate to give you all something to think about
    -
    also simply saying that even if goku’s energy is in all located in his stomach the minimal energy in the mind will be to much to control
    -
    that is a really unfair argument.
    -
    in any case Goku’s form was a 30,000 increase, with the kio kens. so we need to divide by 20. that leaves 1,500.
    -
    a power level of that should be in Itachi’s range, considering he caught killer b in a genjutsu and killer b can bust entire mountian ranges.
    -
    @tkog
    goku will look itachi in the eyes. well i don’t agree with max entirely you know he is correct. I was rewatching the ginyu battle last night and he looked them all in the eye last night.
    -
    plus goku will notice itachi’s eyes change color. i mean seriiously he notices everything about his opponent, so he won’t notice the eyes change color.
    -
    if you want to calim goku can anticipate mental attacks give me scans. you can’t make a claim without scans. or show me a battle and post it, when he doesn’t look at his opponent
    -
    if you can post me a vid in which he doesn’t, then i will argree with you, but every single battle goku has fought proves otherwise. so show me scans or drop it.
    -
    @sorrow
    why do you think goku can break out of tsyukonimi.
    -
    @everyone again
    you have all brought up amazing points and i am very very very very very excited to keep debating with you all. i will keep debating itachi until i get some solid evidence that porves he can’t win.
    -
    so thank you all.
    -
    in any case i just hope we can all agree that goku can be caught in genjutsu, so that way we can get to finer points like, can tsuykonimi hurt goku, and can the totsuka blade pierce goku’s skin. the two of three for itachi can win.
    -
    :) thank you :)

  63. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 10:23 am -      #1863

    @seradon
    sorry i ddin’t meant to forget about you
    -
    Itachi is a super genius. as soon as he sees goku’s immense ki, he will know he is screwed. so he will use all methods possible to stop him.
    -
    It is possible that he can active yata mirror first, however he does this gives itachi the ability tank whatever goku can dish, giving him the ability to capture him in tysukonimi winning him the match
    -
    I personnally still think the battle will go like this. its not cannon, but i still think it would work exactly like this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrjrynmOd7I

  64. The King of Games February 24, 2013 at 10:49 am -      #1864

    You keep getting numbers wrong in a way that just isn’t funny. Goku’s Namek Base power level when he fight Freeza is 3,000,000 without the Kaio Ken. You also can’t seem to tell the difference between lokking at someone and locking eyes. The Yata Mirror can not save him from Goku seeing how it can easily be over powered by Goku’s energy.
    manga-access.com/manga/D/Dragon_Ball/chapter/281/13
    Goku couldn’t even be bothered to look at his attack let alone into his eyes.
    manga-access.com/manga/D/Dragon_Ball/chapter/334/10
    He would sense the change in Itachi’s chakra and then counter.
    Also Seeing how Goku is far stronger then he was on Namek by the end of the series his power easily overpowers anything the Narutoverse can hope to muster.

  65. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 12:06 pm -      #1865

    @tkog
    the kazenshu says otherwise about goku being 3.000,000 base. so please get your facts straight.
    -
    also i said mental attacks, show me goku dodging a mental attack. not a ki blast, heck batman could dodge a bullet without looking. it shouldn’t be to hard for goku to do the same
    -
    the yata mirror can easily tank mountain busting attacks, which is the most goku ever uses in a fight anyway, unless pressured, like agaisnt vegeta and cell.
    -
    don’t you dare say goku will blow up the planet, becasue that is bs. or use energy evne half that. he didn’t even use that energy on kid buu, so don’t say say that he will against itachi who is an ant compared to ssj3 goku and kid buu.
    -
    that yata mirror can reflect whatever energy goku can dish out, since he isn’t going to unleash major moon/planet ki blasts.
    -
    you do realize that looking at someone is looking entirely the whole body, which is the eye. and that counts.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/257 also basic genjutsu can catch goku, since he has barely any energy in the head, since that has been confirmed.
    -
    Itachi can capture capture goku in genjutsu. i mean people beleive that the nine tials equals base goku, so for you to ingore the evidence, saying that we take away all of goku’s ki, turning him into a nromal saiyan he would still be to much for itachi, is fanboysim to the max.
    -
    again please prove against mind attacks not ki blasts.
    -
    so if you want to argue please start showing proof, not stuff we already all agree on.
    -
    Honestly if you only want to see a naruto character bust a planet to be satisfied, you are using the single most cheapest arguments in the history of arguments. not to mention its invalid, because goku without his ki can’t bust a planet much less a mountian. the mind doen’st hold that much ki. all that ki is in the stomach, leaving the mind exposed.
    -
    your argument is invalid. a basic genjutsu should be enough to trap goku.
    -

  66. The King of Games February 24, 2013 at 12:12 pm -      #1866

    No one here believes that the Nine Tails equals End of Series Base Goku. You can look at somene without looking into their eyes. The Trunks fight shows Goku not even bothering to guard ebcause he knew he wouldn;t attck because he sensed it in his ki.
    www.dragonballencyclopedia.com/wiki/List_of_battle_powers
    Scroll down you’ll clearly see that it says Goku’s Namek base power level is 3,000,000. Also you keep making your own argument incalid by thinking Itachi can control the Fox when it’s been stated you have to be a highly advance user on the level of Mada or Obito which Itachi isn’t.

  67. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 12:55 pm -      #1867

    @tkog
    I have one more argument that will prove once and for all that goku can get caught in a genjutsu.
    -
    its really obvious and i have no idea why we all are being idiots and argued for the past 100 comments on can a genjutsu catch itachi
    -
    I apologize a thousand fold for not bringing this up sooner and wastign our time.
    -
    you gave the proof earlier.
    -
    Itachi captured killer b. and you claimed, so what killer b wasn’t using all the eight tales chakra.
    -
    this is preciesly why itachi can catch goku.
    -
    goku is’nt using that 3,000,000 all the time, he has to power up to achieve all that power. that 3,000,000 is just sitting there waiting for him to grab just like killer b, with the eight tiales chakra.
    -
    tahnk you for resolving the debate.
    -
    this is now over. Goku isn’t walking around constantly with the 3,000,000 activated. he lets it sit. and only grabs it when needed.
    -
    apology profusely for the wasted time, and for using the wrong evidence
    -
    but thank you for ending the debate tkog

  68. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 1:01 pm -      #1868

    I am such an idiot. bar none
    -
    litterly the answer was right in front of me and i didn’t take it.
    -
    goku has massive energy like naruto and the nine tials.
    -
    goku has to chanel the energy in him to grab it like naruto and the nine tails.
    -
    ay yi yi i am a idiot.
    -
    anyway this ends the debate.

  69. The King of Games February 24, 2013 at 1:05 pm -      #1869

    I was using that to prove that Itachi didn’t captire the Eigth Tails Chakra. Also again seeing how this end of series Goku his power level is far beyond 3,000,000 also note that it was 3,000,00 while he was holding back and testing Freeza. Also genjtsu doesn;t end this fight seeing how Goku would have to let himself get hit by it which he won’t. He can attack Itachi before the genjutsu even starts the moment he feels Itachi’s chakra shift.

  70. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 2:03 pm -      #1870

    @tkog
    I was talking about the genjutsu debate.
    -
    I am just glad that part is over.

  71. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 2:07 pm -      #1871

    @tkog
    in regards to goku sensing genjutsu is silly since he can only dodge physcial movements.
    -
    he can measurea nd feel how far his opponent can go, thats how he can stop trunks. this is feat that even batman can reproduce.
    -
    unless you can show me a scan of goku sensing a mental attack, its over.
    -
    however i don’t see goku doing that. its pretty much dr. manhattan vs goku. can goku sense dr. manhatten grabbing goku’s energy? i don’t think so.
    -
    just a refresher are you trying to compare genjutsu to a normal melee attack?

  72. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 2:13 pm -      #1872

    @tkog
    sorrry about triple post but your trunks feat, he sensed no anger in the attack.
    -
    Goku will only sense Itachi charging up an attack and as he bracing he will see itachi’s eyes change and then he is captured.
    -
    this plays out in almost every singe dbz fight.
    -
    goku senses freizas energy, freiza’s energy doubles he notices
    -
    goku fights ginyu bro’s they power up he noitces the changes in power.
    -
    goku vs android, android charge up attack Goku waits.
    -
    as soon as goku senses itachi’s chakra cange it will be to late. because he will already have seen the eye color change and goku will be caught.
    -

  73. The King of Games February 24, 2013 at 2:24 pm -      #1873

    He ignored the Ginyus for like half the fight and barely payed them any attention. He can sense emotions in the nergy used to attack meaning he would know when Itachi would go on the offense. Actually I just realized how flawed your argument is. If Itachi can see how big a threat Goku is he wouldn’t bother with genjutsu and skip to use the Sussano. I mean if confroted with a Tailed Beast he wouldn’t try to use genjutsu he would try and force a situation that could let him catch it witht he Susanno. So seeing hwo he would figure Goku is to Strong he would try to use ninja tatics to force Goku into a situation where he could use Susanno and win. Not that it would matter because Goku could sense out his energy.

  74. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 2:36 pm -      #1874

    @tkog
    again i agree. i have always agreed before the debate began that ogku can sense emotions in attacks, he can sense and react to melee attacks.
    -
    however this doesn’t work at all since it is a mental attack, and goku will just think it is a physical attack.
    -
    lol nice try at changing the subject. Itachi is insanely inetlligent, he will try to restrain goku’s from touching the insane amount of ki. The easiest way for him to do that is with a genjutsu.
    -
    really you think Itachi will go, “omg he has a massive amoutn of chakra, i better set up my defenses and let him pwoer up so that he can blow me to pieces”
    -
    not cool bro
    -
    (not that this has anything to do with the debate) but itachi if he activates yata mirror, goku is done. itachi would make the entrie thing covred in amertersu. Goku will strike it, and then his arm will be on fire. the moment goku screams, more flames will burn him. naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Amaterasu the flames are hotter than the sun. goku will burn, lightning is insanley hot and amatersu burnt out lightning.
    -
    goku burns in a massive ghast of amertersu, and the instant he screams or tries to power up, one swing of the totsuka blade, into a open burn, the totsuka will seal goku permanatly.
    -
    again that has nothing to do with the debate but that is must likely what would happen in that case.
    -
    can we move on to goku survivng tysukomi? or are you going ot keep saying that goku won’t even look at itachi’s eyes, when he clearly looks at all his opponents.
    -
    I don’t really care, nor do i mind debating i am just glad the genjutsu debate is over.

  75. The King of Games February 24, 2013 at 2:53 pm -      #1875

    Well one Goku could survive the Genjutsu if he did get caught which he won’t. Second I said ninja tatic so I doubt Itachi would just start with it off the bat but lead up to using it. Thrid the only charcater that has control of Amaterasu like that is Sauske. Itachi is more genjutsu heavy will Sauske is more Amaterasu heavy in terms of how their Sharingans work. Also you don’t have to lock eyes when you look at someone.

  76. Dassadec February 24, 2013 at 2:57 pm -      #1876

    I still think Goku will survive Tsukiyomi with better results than Kakashi, possibly even going SSJ as soon as he’s free

  77. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 3:00 pm -      #1877

    @tkog
    doubt it
    -
    even in the manga he locks eys with his oppoent.
    -
    plus we don’t know that. that was speculation from one odd ninja, who never saw itachi. for all we know itachi can make genjutsu dance. (for the lolz)
    -
    third itachi would see the insane amount of ki and repress it before goku can use it, by use of genjutsu. he used it against jinjuriki, he would use it against goku.
    -
    fourth. Itachi is almost as intelligent as shikamaru, so he has insane intellegince, so he can do wahtever he wants.
    -
    fifth. I want to discuss the goku vs Tsyukonimi after all this is covered.
    -
    Tahnk you once again TKOG i owe you alot. regardless if goku quishes itachi or itachi squishes goku. I hope this debate can keep working out well

  78. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 3:12 pm -      #1878

    @dassedec
    Kakashi had the sharingan, the sharingan managed to shield him from most of the damage.
    -
    also when kakashi was free of the genjutsu it still was affecting him terribly
    -
    not to mentiong we are not even sure ITachi was trying to kill kakashi, remamber he ddin’t come there to start a war, he probably just wanted to k.o kakashi, because he did’nt want the entire leaf heading out to hunt him
    -
    Since Itachi has to kill goku in this fight, it is safe to say within those 72 hours, that he can invent and insane amount of mind destruction the likes we have never even dreamed of.
    -
    I remember the great Majopojo saying that, “itachi getting goku to kill himself isn’t out of the question.”
    -
    remember itachi recreated the entire scene of him murdering his village, before sasuke. there is no limit to what itachi can do.
    -
    also remember Itachi is a super dangerous foe, goku with no mind durability vs the intense 72 hours of hell that goku has to endure, its pretty safe to say that the great saiyan won’t survive.

  79. seradon February 24, 2013 at 4:05 pm -      #1879

    I just realized a big flaw with the argument of Itachi immediately detecting power… Goku actually hides it when not going all out. Other fighters can’t actually sense it like this, and even the Sharingan has skipped on seeing the full extent of an opponents chakra circulation (it’s more of a Hyuuga thing). This is a common tactic for him too, surpresing his power level and letting it explode in short instances to confuse and overwhelm the opponent (Nappa, Ginyu Force, Frieza, etc). If Goku mucks around fighting Itachi, he probably won’t be able to detect the massive amount of power Goku has hidden, meaning both combatants wont try to finish this immediately.

  80. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 4:50 pm -      #1880

    @seradon
    :) thank you for noticing. I have a coutner for that though
    -
    narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/15
    Itachi can tell sasuke is out of chakra.
    -
    so even if Goku hides his ki, itachi can still see it.
    -

  81. The King of Games February 24, 2013 at 6:38 pm -      #1881

    Sasuke repressed the Nine Tails because it’s a seperate Chakra source. He can’t cut Naruto off from his own chakra so niether can Itachi. Itachi recreating something he was there for isn’t impressive it’s just lazy. All he did was make someone watch something he rememebred. It’s like forcing someone to sit down and watch your home movies. Also you seem to always skip the Goku’s a combat genus part and that he could easily figure out how to break a genjutsu. Also seeing how there isn;t anything to support the idea that Itachi can control Amaterasu like Sasuke I’m pretty sure he can’t.

  82. seradon February 24, 2013 at 8:14 pm -      #1882

    @Motor314
    _
    “Itachi can tell sasuke is out of chakra.
    -
    so even if Goku hides his ki, itachi can still see it.”
    _
    Yes, like I said, the Sharingan can “see” chakra (the best representation of this is in the Valley of the End; the Sharingan detects the flow of chakra around Naruto, enabling Sasuke to evade attacks/copy jutsu), however that same fight lets us know that the Sharingan can’t accurately detect repressed chakra in an opponent (even with the fully evolved eyes Sasuke couldn’t realize the full extents of the Nine Tails chakra – something the Byakugan could during Neji’s fight with Naruto). Also being able to tell someone is out of chakra, isn’t quite the same as being able to tell how much they have hidden (this is the premier difference between the Sharingan and the Byakugan as one can “detect” the flow in such a way it allows the reproduction of jutsu, while the other allows one to actually “observe” the flow through the body’s chakra network; both have their strengths and weaknesses, and being able to detect chakra to the extent Itachi would need, just happens to be the Byakugan’s strength.

  83. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 10:14 pm -      #1883

    @tkog
    true, we can’t know for sure that itachi can control flames as well as sasuke.
    -
    as i said that had nothing to do with the debate.
    @seradon
    I do agree completely however you are assuming that goku can seal away his ki like itachi can. In any case even if he toned down his ki the energy would still be inane to itachi
    -
    since the sharingan can see chakra, its not to hard to see that goku’s repressed chakra, becasue what remains would be stil so intense for itachi
    -
    in any case, why would goku even attempt to lower his ki, or mask it. he is fighting someone to death shouldn’t he power up?
    -
    in any case a very good observation :)

  84. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 10:28 pm -      #1884

    @tkog
    you seem to be missing the point.
    -
    Itachi recreated everything, he put flesh on his victims he created blood, wood, stone, fire, steel metal.
    -
    I was using this to prove that Itachi can do anything that he wants. in tsyukonimi.
    -
    in any case tsyukonimi is the strongest genjutsu, it can only be broken out of through one way. having a sharingan. that is how sasuke broke out of it.
    -
    during the illusion, itachi has complete control of the victims mind this lasts for a split second in the real world, while 72 hours in the illusion. during the illusion Goku is tied tied onto a metal T. Goku while in this trance can’t call upon his massive, for Itachi has sealed him off completely. Furthermore during the torture. Itachi’s can perform any feat, he made guesses on what kid madara and his brother looked like, he fake tore sasukes eyes off. he sprayed fake blood on sasuke. and heres the best part.
    -
    this is the first time in which Itachi wants to kill using tsyukonimi. the possibility of goku surviving is minimal. Kakashi only survived due to three reasons.
    -
    1. Itachi most likely wasn’t trying to kill him.
    2. kakashi had the sharingan which enabled him to resist most of the damage
    3. he would’ve died, if he hadn’t been healed by tsunade.
    -
    also please don’t call Itachi lazy for recreating his entire village. Its the same thing as calling goku lazy for imitating Master roshi’s kamehema. those two are amazing feats the likes that rarely seen as if ever in both the dbz and narutovere.
    -
    when goku busted that car, it showed that he had talen and promise. when Itachi recreated the village, it showed how much control he had and power. he literally created humans, fire, water metal, air.
    -
    lol Itachi is the last airbender, because he can create all five elements.
    -
    jk jk jk jk

  85. Motor314 February 24, 2013 at 10:32 pm -      #1885

    just to refresh everyone I still believe itachi takes this 60 times out of 100, leaving goku with the 40 wins.

  86. The King of Games February 24, 2013 at 10:35 pm -      #1886

    Considering Itachi was there and just had to replay the events it’s lazy. Goku did something he had never done on sight alone they aren’t really comparible. Second Itachi uses of the jutsu shows that he can do wahtever he knows will work. He knew showing Sasuke what he did would freak him out and he knew what he was doing would torture Kakashi. I can see this him making guess at what Madra and his brother looked like. Even though there is a giant statue of Madra in a valley he could have seen. Itachi can;t seal Goku off from his power he’s never been shown to do it before. What Sasuke did was cut Naruto off from a seperate power source not his own power. So Itachi would cast the genjutsu and most likely waste time trying to figure out what would torture/tramuatize Goku the most while Goku tries to figure out how to break free. Seeing how tough Goku is if he did some how get caught he would easily survive he delt with tougher things then Itachi could think to dish out.

  87. The hero of Anime February 24, 2013 at 10:42 pm -      #1887

    I have a question.

    Is Itachi’s attacks, harm Goku?

    Cuz I can see Goku way more superior then Itachi.
    Because Goku is faster,stronger,durable & have some insane martial arts skills in his arsenal.

    I Still say that Goku can take this but whit some dificultes(Sorry for bad Inglish).

  88. Motor314 February 25, 2013 at 1:21 am -      #1888

    @tkog
    first off, lets look back to the kakashi fight. Itachi created 100 kakashi’s to increase the pain 100 fold. the blades split into 8 blades to continue stabbing kakashi. not meniton he could stab kakishi 9 times within a second in tsyukonimi.
    -
    so that is 1,866,240,000 stabs in tsyukonimi, on Goku’s unprotected mind.
    -
    remember this isn’t goku’s body being stabbed its his mind. Not to mention even if the stabs aren’t affecting Goku, he can simply amp the pressure, by making goku feel like he is drowing or light him on fire.
    -
    the chance of the great saiyan warrior surviving are slim to zero.
    -
    I would hate to see Itachi go all out though in a genjutsu, the amount of damage and violence would be startling.
    -
    goku will fall to ground dead or dying, or paraylized.
    -
    if goku somehow survived ITachi has several seconds to deal with the stunned goku. Which can easily be fixed,with a amertersu, and totsuka blade attack.
    -
    the black flames iwth cut goku’s skin alloiwing the mighty totsuka blade to sweep in and win the match for itachi.
    -
    game over.

  89. Motor314 February 25, 2013 at 1:31 am -      #1889

    @the hero of anine
    If goku and itachi were fighting hand to hand combate i would agree with you.
    -
    however through hundreds of pages of debating. we have proved that itachi can catch goku in a genjutsu, before goku can speedblitz him.
    -
    doesn’t seem like that much? however this i believe will seal the match for itachi. Tsyukonimi is the deal breaker.
    naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsukuyomi
    in this world itachi controls space, time and all reality. in my above post i calculated that at bare minimum Itachi can stab goku 1,866,240,000 times.
    -
    this isn’t goku’s skin being stabbed because it is his mind.
    -
    even if this doesn’t finish off goku, a combined attack from amertersu and the totsuka blade. naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_of_Totsuka naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Amaterasu will finish goku off.
    -
    sorry for posting the wiki’s i don’t want to find the scans again.
    -
    all in all i believe itachi can take this 6/10.
    -
    what do you think?

  90. seradon February 25, 2013 at 1:58 am -      #1890

    @Motor314
    _
    “since the sharingan can see chakra, its not to hard to see that goku’s repressed chakra, becasue what remains would be stil so intense for itachi”
    _
    That’s just the thing, Goku can bring his power level down to a pitiful 5 and bring it up in an instant. We know it can fool both scouters, and the ki senses of even his fellow Z fighters (ginyu force fight being the best example), so confusing Itachi should be relatively simple.
    _
    in any case, why would goku even attempt to lower his ki, or mask it. he is fighting someone to death shouldn’t he power up?
    _
    And here’s the biggest problem of all. Like I mentioned a few pages back Goku doesn’t fight to kill his opponents (even against Frieza, he just wanted to crush his spirit). The few times he actually fights an opponent he plans to kill either he doesn’t get to do it (Android 19, and Cell), or he has no choice but to kill them (Kid Buu). His fights against those opponents are far different from normal Goku however, in that he doesn’t actually hold back (well, he did against Cell at first, but he didn’t believe he could win, and was just letting Gohan know what he was gonna be up against), and fights to beat them as quick as possible (he starts all 3 of these fights in SS). Which again goes back to my previous argument of “If Goku has in it his mindset to truly kill this guy, he’s not gonna hold punches”, which means Itachi either gets beam-spammed, speed-blitzed, or both. If we ignore the fact Goku actually has the mindset to kill his opponents quickly however, then Goku is vastly different: taking a more defensive style and holding back his power only to release it in an instant, and confuse and overwhelm the opponent (the fights against Nappa, the Ginyu Force, Frieza, and the Yo Son Goku special, show its a common tactic for him). So with 2 different interpretations of Goku’s charcter, we can see situations where either Itachi won’t even get a chance to use Tsukuyomi (“serious” Goku), or where he won’t use it immediately (“normal” Goku).

  91. Motor314 February 25, 2013 at 10:23 am -      #1891

    @seradon
    that is true. however in the beginning of the match goku is still shown with his ki none hidden. Unless goku’s first move is to power down, i doubt Itachi will miss it.
    -
    however I have made arguments for both cases.
    -
    the first www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMUOgxuFOzU If goku tries to start out to speed blitz Itachi, by charging in, Itachi can move his arm and catch goku in a genjutsu.
    -
    if Goku tries to power down and lower his power level to try to fight Itachi fairly, he will lose. trying to slow down or play fair agianst Itachi, is an easy way to lose.
    -
    In any case, let me to tell you what i believe we all have agreed on all over the past few pages.
    -
    Goku and Itachi meet. ITachi senses Goku’s immense ki, and knows he fucked. ITachi immediently activated his MS to try to capture goku in Tsyukonimi, Goku notices the eyes change and the match is over.
    -
    i personally believe that this can happen 6/10. the other 4 out 10 times itachi cannot capture goku in genjutsu, do to either, speed blitz, or goku using an energy blast.
    -
    I don’t think Itachi takes this easily, i mean simply winning 6/10 isn’t that much of an edge. this entire match is bassically Physcial strength(goku) vs mental,/Physicic attacks(itachi)
    -
    since goku perferes a fair, fight, like you were saying, and also sensing ITachi’s low fighting power he wil have two choices, 1. barbecue him on sight. 2. try to make the fight interesting. #2 happens the most in all of the manga/anime/game. so for the majority of times Goku will get caught and defeated, and the rest itachi gets evaporated under goku’s monster power.
    -
    in any case thank you once more for bringing up an interesting point. I feel like the match is winding down agian.

  92. Storm117 February 25, 2013 at 11:10 am -      #1892

    @motor
    well you have definetly made some interesting points.
    -
    I really felt like you were conrnered around pst 1823, when Mike said the genjutus debate was over.
    -
    mike was right, if you had carried on itachi would’ve lost the match and no one would’ve agreed with you, but then you litterally made me full out of my chair reading post 1824. you litterally dropped the debate over, and once more secured Itachi’s win.
    -
    goku does have overwhelming ki, however he isn’t holding on to all of it all the time, therefore his mind is like that of a normal saiyan, and easy to manipulate.
    -
    well done, you very much suprised me and kept the match alive.

  93. The hero of Anime February 25, 2013 at 6:59 pm -      #1893

    Lets look at it like this with the stats ok.Goku is 2.3 times light speed and could hit Itachi in 1 hit hed be dead.also we have the Instant Transmisson Kamehameha wich could easily oblitherate Itachi.
    -

    even if he could lock onto him. it would be hard to kill him because only someone like a saiyan or someone from another world like majin buu or someone like omega shenron could contend with goku.
    _

    Itachi’s mind Tecniques is Nothing compared to Babadi’s, and Goku was completely unaffected by his. Besides, Goku could just kill Itachi before Itachi opens his eyes.
    _

    Goku > vegeta, Vegeta > babidi’s mind Tecniques. therefore if babidi’s mind control had no effect on goku, what makes u think itachi’s will?

    _

    This is a very popular topic in this site, when it comes to Naruto and DBZ is: Who would win between Itachi and Goku?
    Now before I go into detail about the abilities of each fighter, their strengths, weaknesses, etc., I have to start off with a simple thing about Goku many people seem to overlook.
    When a person has a lot of power, any kind of power, they run the risk of losing control. How can they avoid losing control? With a strong heart and a strong mind to match the amount of power they have.
    The amount of power Goku possesses is absolutely absurd when compared to anyone in Naruto. In order to keep control of himself and over all of that power, it is safe to assume that Goku’s mind-power, willpower, self discipline, and heart are all just as powerful as the power he possesses.
    Another thing I want to address is probably a very important thing people overlook. (besides the fact that Goku has to have an extremely strong mind, etc.). Everyone can agree that Naruto characters have a very wide variety of techniques they use as compared to DBZ, and are much more impressive to watch. I feel that people overlook Goku’s true power when considering the vast array of moves in Naruto, which in terms of power are absolutely useless in any way shape or form against Goku.
    I’m going to go over the 3 most popular moves itachi uses, and the 3 moves people claim can defeat Goku; TSUKUYOMI, AMATERASU, and SUSANOO. I researched all three from naruto.wikia.com.
    TSUKUYOMI requires a great deal of chakra to use. In this illusion Itachi tricks the enemies mind into thinking many hours have passed, when in reality not much time has passed at all. Itachi also causes a great deal of mentail trauma to his opponent, because he tricks the mind of the person caught in the tsukuyomi into thinking they have suffered physical pain for many hours straight.
    Everyone knows Goku’s power is absolutely insane compared to anyone in Naruto. I’m also saying his mind is insanely strong compared to anyone in Naruto is well. I do now think a Genjutsu from someone as weak as Itachi would work on Goku at all based on the strength of Goku and his mind. BUT IF IT DID?
    My question is: What does pain feel like in Naruto compared to the DB series? Take Cell for example, when his power level was a mere 45,000,000. Cell was floating out in the ocean looking at the scenery. While Cell was floating out there, and entire military opened fire. There were helicopters, aircraft carriers, tanks, numerous foot troops, etc. Cell was hit with a countless amount of bullets and rockets. But yet, Cell did not even get a paper cut from all that. Goku is over 30 times stronger than Cell when Cell was able to withstand all the bullets and rockets.
    With that being said… truly think about how strong Goku’s body really is. A sword in Naruto would not pierce the skin of Goku, when an entire military cannot even cause a paper cut.
    So if the Tsukuyomi hit Goku, I think it would do nothing to him physically or mentally despite Itachi’s best efforts. Not to mention Itachi would lack a large amount of Chakra after the move. Itachi would be completed overwhelmed and in awe of the all around strength of Goku.
    AMATERASU puts a huge strain on the eyes of the user. The user also has to remain focused on the target. The flames are supposed to be as hot as the Sun, but if a small flame from the some was burning the shirt on your back, I’m sure you would melt… the sun is quite hot….
    But, Goku is faster than the speed of sound when flying around. And faster than the speed of light with instant transmission.
    Even if Goku was hit with an Amaterasu… the Amaterasu is slow to burn. Giving Goku ample ample time to counter attack, which would kill Itachi in one hit, and if Itachi had clones and had to avoid Goku, he would most likely lose focus on Goku causing great pain to his eyes, and the Amaterasu to release.
    Goku is also incredibly fast compared to anyone in Naruto. There is no way itachi can keep up with his movements to continue the amaterasu on him. I would think Amaterasu has the worst chance of doing anything at all.
    SUSANOO is another technique Itachi uses. Susanoo is an offensive and defensive skill only a mangekyo sharingan user can “unlock.” While active, Susanoo constantly drains the life force from Itachi. Also, if Susanoo takes damage, it can regenerate at the cost of more life energy from the caster, if the user has that to spare. The reason life energy is drained is because the user has to act as a medium for the spirit to surround them. Sasuke describes Susanoo as “feeling pain in every cell of one’s body.”
    Itachi’s Susanoo has some items that added to his version including a sword with a sake jar used for indefinite sealing as well as some shield. For the an opponent to be sealed, the sword must pierce the skin of the opponent… and his shield of course is used for “ultimate defense.” How many “ultimate defenses” have we seen beaten in Naruto?

    Conclusion: (My honest opinion)
    As diverse and interesting as the skill sets in Naruto are, I’m sorry to say… they do not stand a chance against Goku.
    The two shows are built on COMPLETELY different scales. Goku pops planets like Itachi pops zits. All in All, these moves from Itachi do one of two things. Deplete his chakra and\or cause a great deal of pain to himself.
    In mind, in body, in strength, in battle experience, in endurance, in power, in speed, in defense, and finally.…in willpower, Goku takes it all.
    I’m sorry but Itachi cannot really effect Goku even if he gets him in a genjutsu. Goku is just too strong.

    I will have to give it to Goku, but itachi is not a push over, itachi will be close to beat/give him more of a figth to Goku.

  94. Motor314 February 25, 2013 at 7:14 pm -      #1894

    @hero of anime
    most of these arguments have been covered but I will go through them.
    -
    first of all babidy was covered earlier, dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Babidi%27s_Mind_Control his mind control does’nt work on those pure of heart, and Goku is insanely pure, so of course it wouldn’t work
    -
    willpower also isn’t enough to break out os tsyukonimi, the only ways to breka out is to
    1. have many mind blocks which goku doesn’t not
    2. have a kekenkia (sorry if i spelled that wrong) of the sharingan.
    -
    so Hal jordan (who has the strongest will) he can’t even breka out of tsyukonimi.
    -
    still a good point nonetheless.
    -
    As for your argument about cell and goku, this is true and you are 100% correct. however you are wrong on the most important aspect, this is goku’s mind, not body. the soft unprotected mind of goku is left there to be stabbed1,866,240,000 times in the least. I am pretty sure that would that would kill goku.
    -
    Yata mirror is a spiritual weapon, and although i do agree goku can easily bust it, i doubt he would use that much power. mianly due to the fact that he never uses that much energy with buu, or frieza.
    -
    goku only uses planet destorying energy against planet destroying attacks.
    -
    yata mirror easily tanks mountina busting attacks, which is what goku uses at must in all his battle.
    -
    Also I would never dream of saying that if goku’s awake and moving that itachi can catch him with amertersu, Goku is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sasuke in speed, adn Itachi had trouble hitting him.
    -
    I was trying ot make the claim of Itachi hitting the downed goku after the tsyukonimi to make a scratch on his skin so the totsuka blade can seal him.
    -
    It is true that goku can pop planets easly, and dbz > naruto. however in this specific fight between goku and Itachi. Itachi takes this becasue,
    1. goku looks all his opponets in the eye so Itachi can just look him in the eye and goku will be in tysukonimi
    2. Itachi will sense goku’s immense ki and immedienlty use tysukonimi in response of the large ki in hopes of defeating him opponent before he cna access it. due the sharingan he can see the ki.
    3. after many comments we confirmed that itachi can catch goku in a genjutsu. we are now debating if it can hurt him or not.
    -

    In any case bro i really do appreciate your comments and you don’t have to apologize, you brought up some excellent points.
    -
    i appreciate the chance to debate. :)

  95. Motor314 February 25, 2013 at 7:19 pm -      #1895

    In any case you did perform an excellent argument. so kudos :)
    -
    and yeah Goku vs itachi is very popular, i began playing the devils advocate on itachi’s side, thinking he would be crushed, but after further debating and getting i beleive 10 people to agree on itachi winning(i am not sure on the number)
    -
    I think Itachi can take this 6/10
    -
    he loses 4 times due to goku’s insane speed, and if goku just charges in recklessly, which is a rarity for goku to do.
    -
    no one can claim Itachi wins 10/10 and i doubt anyone can cliam goku can win 10/10 after all that has been done on this debate.

  96. Motor314 February 25, 2013 at 7:29 pm -      #1896

    i don’t know why people pick itachi vs goku, sure itachi can win, but the more obvious choice would be tobi.
    -
    Tobi is constnatly in another dimmension and goku can blast at him to no avail, not to meniton if he gets near tobi, tobi can just kill goku by tossing him into the other dimension.
    -
    Tobi in my opinion would be the wiser choice and the better to use as naruto’s champion instead of itachi.

  97. The King of Games February 25, 2013 at 7:29 pm -      #1897

    If Itachi can’t catch a Tail Beast in his genjutsu why would he be able to cactch Goku? Also he can’t stop Goku from accessing his ki. What Sasuke did was stop Naruto from accessing chakra that wasn’t his. Also only two people think Itachi can win you and storm. everyone else stopped acrng about this match forever ao that’s why the same what is it 4 people keep commenting.

  98. sadot06 February 25, 2013 at 7:42 pm -      #1898

    If Itachi can catch Goku in a genjutsu then the fight is over. He can force Goku to fly into space or seal away his soul with Susanoo or burn him with amaterasu.

  99. Motor314 February 25, 2013 at 7:47 pm -      #1899

    @tkog
    before you came on 8 people agreed on itachi winning. ^narrows eyes.
    -
    you already proved that ITachi can catch goku in a genjutsu. Goku has to charge up his ki, Itachi simply grabs him before he does that.
    -
    i don’t know why you keep bringing up sasuke and naruto. Itachi isn’t going ot try to repress that much ki, he will simply catch goku before he can use it.
    -
    please don’t lie. thats not fair.

  100. The King of Games February 25, 2013 at 7:54 pm -      #1900

    Lie about what I’ve only talk about what I saw. Second Goku doesn;t have to power up to be too much for Itachi to handle he already is. I have no idea where you got the idea that I agreed that he can be caught in a gnejutsu when all I’ve done is question it. You keep making the assumption that Goku will lokc eyes with Itachi. Considering how weak Itachi is Goku wouldn;t be able to even try to have a fair mtach with him and would probably end it quickly. You know like with the Ginyu Force and Yakon. The Red Ribbon Army. When people are too weak he really doesn’t bother with trying to have fun. The Ginyu Firce only lasted as long as they did because he was trying to tell them to quit Itachi doesn’t get the offer to quit here because realistically he would quit if Goku asked him to.

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