Cloud Vs Link Vs Kratos Vs Sauron Vs Thor Vs Richard Rahl Vs Ganondorf Vs Rand al’Thor

Cloud Strife Vs Link Vs Kratos Vs Sauron Vs Thor Vs Richard Rahl Vs Ganondorf Vs Rand al'Thor

So here have a battle of heavyweights that would prove to be a fun match. At the risk of feeling L-W’s wrath (through logical reasoning on his part), I would pick Richard Rahl for the victor in this match.

Yes, I know Thor is a god, as well as Kratos. I know certain characters can only be killed with special weapons. While all the characters possess great strength and intelligence, I think it’s Rahl’s instincts to solve the problem instead of worrying about what the effects are would carry him to victory. He’d think of ways to temporarily outsmart his other opponents while buying him time to figure out what he needed to do in order to win.

So, I’ve drawn my line in the sand. What say you?

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639 Comments on "Cloud Vs Link Vs Kratos Vs Sauron Vs Thor Vs Richard Rahl Vs Ganondorf Vs Rand al’Thor"

  1. Tim February 27, 2009 at 4:02 pm -      #1

    Oh yes! This could become one of the biggest and best fights on this website. I’m looking forward to this one, a lot.
    I would like to think that Link could win but looking at his opponents I doubt it, he might get far but I don’t think he will win. My guess is Sauron should come top but I don’t know much about some of the characters so I will wait and see what others think before making a verdict.

  2. Cpt Olimar February 27, 2009 at 4:39 pm -      #2

    IM inclined to think Sauron would have a decent chance but….. I don’t really know. Link Ganondorf Kratos and Cloud I think are out.
    Can the others resist Sauron’s corruption?

  3. Onesidedfight February 27, 2009 at 4:49 pm -      #3

    Cloud? Out? Cloud is a near immortal warrior who can summon magiacl ceratures by pumping his hands away from his chest, can take uncountable fire, ice, earth, water, poison, and cuts and sometimes become stronger from the attacks. He is actually increadably fast, strong, and smart, and can summon giant metors from the sky. Basically, if it can bleed, cloud can kill it.

  4. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 27, 2009 at 5:22 pm -      #4

    Hmm, the thing I’m wondering is if Rand al’Thor can isolate some of these combatants from their magic. Thor is a god. Sauron is almost a god. Kratos is the son of a god. In my opinion though it probably would come down to a battle between Sauron, al’Thor, Kratos, Thor and possibly Cloud or Rahl though I doubt it.

    Link would be the first to die by the way, in a horrible manner that would teach him for being an interfering busybody. Then Ganondorf would die too.

    ps admin, just to check you mean the Cloud from FF because there’s also the Cloud out the Defenders and a few other Clouds and if this was the Defenders’ Cloud then it might stand a better chance.

  5. The One Sin February 27, 2009 at 5:44 pm -      #5

    “Cloud is a near immortal warrior who can summon magiacl ceratures by pumping his hands away from his chest,”

    You know Kratos is/was a GOD. He was immortal, so if we are talking about him as the god of war, this is already over.

  6. Expertimp (Rob) February 27, 2009 at 8:48 pm -      #6

    God of war wins. I dont see how any of them could beat him… best shot would maybe be thor.

  7. Cpt Olimar February 27, 2009 at 9:50 pm -      #7

    Rand can cut the magic of items from their users, according to Matapiojo, so basically, Kratos will have fleece, but it wont do anything. He silences casters from using their equippment. Without his magical items Kratos is not that strong. He will go down by rand, as will link. Ganondorf will take a beating, and then die. I see sauron doing well here.

  8. marche February 27, 2009 at 10:12 pm -      #8

    well if it comes down to kratos vs thor,we have already established the winner in that battle already.

  9. AlphaCommando February 28, 2009 at 1:17 am -      #9

    Without a doubt this comes down to Thor, Kratos and Sauron; all three being actual gods. With Thor a Norse god, Kratos a Greek god, and Sauron a Maiar (and one of the most powerful Maiar at that), I personally don’t have any pretext to actually compare them. I hope that maybe Mata or L-W might have some insight into this dilemma.

  10. hellatus February 28, 2009 at 3:10 am -      #10

    the best three there are probably: cloud,thor and kratos sauron is great to the rest ,not so much

  11. El Zilcho February 28, 2009 at 4:04 am -      #11

    Thank you admin for putting this up, and with such speed

    Now, on to the actually fight. I’m not really sure of the strengths of Cloud or Richard Rahl (I haven’t read the Sword of Truth series, but I do plan on doing it), but I do believe that the final three would be Thor, Sauron and Rand, with Sauron perhaps the weakest of the three. I would like to see information posted on other characters before I make me decision though.

    Also, I am currently reading the Wheel of Time series, so there is a good chance I will be biased on the subject (but once you get to know Rand, it’s easy to see why). However, because of this I have a great deal of knowledge on the character at my disposal, so I can post information on him if necessary.

  12. Matapiojo February 28, 2009 at 9:00 am -      #12

    I absolutely agree with Alpha.

    Like mentioned above, I am indeed a big fan of Rand al’Thor, The Dragon Reborn. A being that would essentialy dominate any magic user in every way. However, some of these being are not true magic users and should be beyond Rand’s ability to Silence.

    Rand should be able to beat Link, Ganon, Cloud, and Richard, but he will find a considerable challenge in the other three.

    Sauron is indeed a magic-based being that makes use of pretty powrful magics, but it is likely that he is too strong for Rand to silence as he is able to do onto the others for he is a Maiar. Maiar are the demi-gods of Middle Earth. Rand is the Dragon Reborn. A walking Demi-god himself from the world of the Wheel of Time. Rand and Sauron might be in equal standing, but it is hard for me to say with any real conviction who would come out on top of that exchange.

    The remaining two are too far out of the others’ league, and being divine beings, rand could not hope to Silence their powers or their Divine items. I fully believe the fight to come down to Thor and Kratos, and for the result of that you can go here for reference:

    As most people (not all) in this site show a terrible adversion to searching for previous fights of the contenders, some other fights for reference can be seen here:
    Link vs Cloud –
    Link vs Kratos –
    Link vs Rand –

    Of course there are many other fights including these characters that give essential information regarding their abilities and acomplishments, but I think I already did enough.

    …Thor FTW!

  13. Cpt Olimar February 28, 2009 at 1:27 pm -      #13

    Rand really couldnt silence Kratos’s items? Just because he is a God now? Hmm so thats the limit to his abilities.

  14. Matapiojo February 28, 2009 at 2:24 pm -      #14

    “Rand really couldnt silence Kratos’s items? Just because he is a God now? Hmm so thats the limit to his abilities.”

    Well saying that Rand’s weaves of the One Power can interact with non-magical sources would be pure speculation. There is no example that I can remember where Rand disconnected an individual from anything other than a source of Magic.

    This will be one of those coin tosses…

    In any case, as far as I know, he does not eliminate an item’s evocation. What he does is Shield the bearer of said item from interacting with its magical properties.

  15. JoshMcFace February 28, 2009 at 7:37 pm -      #15

    I’d say the Second age Sauron could come out on top. His powers were huge and numerous, both in battle and outside.

  16. El Zilcho February 28, 2009 at 9:15 pm -      #16

    After some more thought I still believe that the final 3 will be Thor, Rand and Sauron. Kratos is not included because it has already been proven that Thor can beat him (see

    In terms of strength Rand would equal Sauron without the ring. With the ring Sauron’s power would most likely be boosted to a bit over Rand’s own strength. However the ring doesn’t drastically increase Sauron’s power; that’s not its main purpose. Its purpose was to dominate other rings of power (and their wearers) and as a side effect it sustains his own life when he should die and increase his power but a limited margin. But Rand also has ways to increase his own power by using angreals and sa’angreals.

    Angreals are items designed to allow a user to draw more of the one power then they could safely handle without it. Drawing too much of the one power results in a person either “burning themselves out” (meaning the can no longer touch the one power) or straight out killing themselves. Thus angreals were designed to increase the amount a person could safely handle. In the Path of Daggers, Elayne obtains an angreal which allows her to draw twice as much power as she can normally handle while in The Fires of Heaven Rand has an angreal which is strong enough that he feels confident that he can defeat Rahvin, who is a male Forsaken and on a rough level of strength with Saidin (the male half of the one power), in one on one combat.

    Sa’angreals function exactly the same as angreals, except that they are vastly more powerful. The only examples of sa’angreal give are Callandor, the sword that is not a sword, which function as an extremely powerful male sa’angreal and the Choedan Kal, which are the most powerful sa’angreal in existence. The Choedan Kal are two giant statues (one for a man, one for a woman) which are so powerful that a person could use it to challenge the creator himself. While the statues are buried under ground and can not be moved (due to their size) they can be used through two ter’angreals (items which use one power for specific purposes rather then amplifying a users power) called the access keys. Rand has Callondor and both the access keys in his possession. By using these he can easily dwarf Sauron’s own power which is why I believe him to be one of the main contenders for victory in this contest.

  17. Cpt Olimar February 28, 2009 at 10:34 pm -      #17

    mata… isn’t his fleece magical or no?

  18. Matapiojo March 1, 2009 at 9:11 am -      #18

    @El Zilcho

    I had considered Callandor, and thought Rand to be at an equal standing to Sauron with the One Ring (or perhaps even Second Age Sauron) while wielding the crystal Sword. However, I had COMPLETELY forgotten about the access keys to the Choedan Kal.

    I think you are right. That turns the balance completely to Rand’s favor. This amount of power can indeed match and even surpass such powerful divine forces as the Odinforce and even Thor’s Rune Magic (as Thor challenged his own “creators” with it).

    Since Thor has not displayed any of the powers that come from Rune Magic after he broke the cycle of Ragnarok, I’m gonna go ahead and put al’Thor at the lead.

    @Cpt Olimar

    With the access keys to the Choendal Kal that I had miscounted for, the issue with the Golden Fleece is a moot point.

    In any case, as opposed to all the Kratos fanboy beliefs, the Fleece does not grant absolute protection. That is often a point of argument that stems from desperate individuals at the verge of a debate defeat. It is no different than MC fanboys resorting to the god-forsaken SPlazer or “activating the Halos” arguments.

    Much like DC’s Wonder Woman, Kratos must focus on the DIRECT attack and deflect it as such. This would do nothing if the very ground he walks on turns to molten magma while the air he breathes into his lungs is -1000 (yes, that is minus) degrees, and his own blood is solidified into solid steel. Not to mention how creative the Dragon Reborn could get with Balefire.

    No, I don’t think the golden fleece would be an issue at all. Rand can do pretty much everything and anything with this amount of power.

  19. Battra Boy March 1, 2009 at 10:55 am -      #19

    I reckon it’d be a showdown between Kratos, Thor, Sauron and maybe Cloud.

  20. Scenario March 1, 2009 at 5:53 pm -      #20

    This would probably be easier if we could separate the combatants into “gods” and “not gods”. Like if it was just Richard vs. Link vs. Ganondorf vs. Cloud and Rand vs. Thor vs. Kratos vs. Sauron

  21. Diana March 2, 2009 at 10:05 am -      #21

    The finishing minutes of the match will go to Sauron, Thor & Kratos……How about an an impression? Richard is hanged & decapitated…..Cloud is lying dead with his buster sword stabbed on his face……Link’s body is chopped into pieces, scattered all over the arena…..Rand is dead & his head is placed on the gate of the arena as a warning to those who want to join the last minute of the fight….

  22. Tim March 2, 2009 at 11:37 am -      #22

    Diana you forgot about Ganondorf, you said how the others would die but not how Ganondorf would.

  23. Matapiojo March 2, 2009 at 3:18 pm -      #23

    Not that I agree with her scenario, but I can answer that.

    Mjolnir to the face = ROFLSTOMPED!

    …but then again, most of the oponents in here would die the same way.


  24. Baron Somebody March 2, 2009 at 3:44 pm -      #24

    Then Dan comes in and turns everyone into chicken!!! Just kidding, thought it might be funny though…

  25. Cpt Olimar March 2, 2009 at 4:28 pm -      #25

    what? his bones scattered everywhere? (lol)

  26. Baron Somebody March 2, 2009 at 7:54 pm -      #26

    @Cpt Olimar

    I HATE YOU!!! *Runs away like Dr Evil’s son*

  27. El Zilcho March 3, 2009 at 3:00 am -      #27

    Your scenario is….interesting to say the least. Actually, until you decided to back that claim up with some evidence, it’s not very interesting at all.

  28. PaPPa JUDAS March 3, 2009 at 6:18 pm -      #28

    Thor should be able to crush all these guys. God +Viking= Kick A$$


  29. KiraMasteroftheNote March 3, 2009 at 11:45 pm -      #29

    At the very least. Ganon is dead first. Because Link would kill him first. While the others ignore them because they are considered inferior fighters for whatever reason.

  30. PaPPa JUDAS March 4, 2009 at 11:56 pm -      #30

    Hey wait Cloud could summon Odin damn now I’m not sure about my last comment


  31. =[BF]=JimmieRox March 5, 2009 at 7:58 am -      #31

    Hmm, I still don’t know who I want to back here. Al’Thor seems a good bet while Sauron also looks to be a contender. If he wanted he can turn himself invisible using the Ring, which should be considered a source of power. However, even if Rand manages to take down the Necromancer then I think Sauron would have his revenge when Rand is just about to walk away from the battle site when he notices a strange glinting from on the ground near where Sauron fell. He bends down to find out what it is finds a gold ring with strange writing glowing on it that fades while he looks at it. Shrugging he slips it on his finger and leaves.

  32. Wraith March 5, 2009 at 9:43 am -      #32

    I’d have to go with Sauron. He’d use his ring to dominate the other evil guys in this fight and end up teaming against the good guys like Cloud and Link. A side note on Rand Al Thor; he’s not always in control of his powers. makes him highly upredictable in this fight. Sometimes Taim sometimes steals control of Saidar from Rand (or was is Saidin? I dont remember, its been a while since I read WoT. Waiting on the last book this coming october). Also, if he’s not already holding Saidar, he often has trouble focusing enough to actually tap the one power (although that might had changed after he heaved the stain off the male side of the one power). The Evil guys (at least the ones that get my vote for being evil) are Kratos, Ganondorf and of course Sauron. Link would go down quick, fast, and in a damned big hurry. Cloud would definitely take some beating down to get, but would eventually succumb, the others would follow. Thor would give the most trouble. But eventually, the combined assault would send him back to Asgard.

  33. JoshMcFace March 5, 2009 at 3:42 pm -      #33

    Wow JimmieRox, epic ending.

  34. apersonthatisnotaperson March 6, 2009 at 4:03 am -      #34

    Hi ,
    It (if you follow El Zilcho and Matapiojo line of thought as well as other relevant fight before ) end up in a battle between Thor and Rand. I know of the characters it question and after thinking about it and one situation keeps popping up.
    That is Thor throwing Mjöllnir at a massive beam of bale fire then either Rand getting his face split open with a hammer or Mjöllnir promptly vanishing followed by Thor (who has a rather surprised look on his face). May I add I don’t actually know what would happen (anyone care to help).However if Rand does kill Thor due to the nature of bale fire he’d probably have to re-fight anyone that Thor killed.

    ( which Thor are we using the comics or Norse god ?)

  35. Battra Boy March 6, 2009 at 11:56 am -      #35

    Kratos would just pull himself out of hell, even angrier thatn before, in the event that he is killed in battle. :)

  36. Matapiojo March 6, 2009 at 2:05 pm -      #36

    “which Thor are we using the comics or Norse god ?”

    We generaly make use of Marvel’s Thor as it is the fictional character depicted the most in the media regarding that topic.

    Discussing historical mythology is usually an example of epic fail. That always turn to “Mine is bigger than yours” with no possible factual proof to tilt the argument towards something productive.

    As for an Odinforce-imbued Mjolnir vs Choendal Kal empowered Balefire, that is a tough one, and nothing we could determine without an ample amount of speculation.

    Odin and Thor have blinked others away with the Odinforce, while balefire has erased people from reality. Yea, thats a tough one indeed.

  37. apersonthatisnotaperson March 7, 2009 at 2:40 am -      #37

    @ Battra Boy he died therefor he lost the others may die but they are instantly rezed they don’t have to free them selves form hell again.

    @Matapiojo does that mean it’s a draw ? since we can draw a conclusion without a fair amount of doubt. in reality this part of the fight could probably be a fight in its self

  38. The Chosen One March 7, 2009 at 8:45 pm -      #38

    This battle is Epic but serously this could have so many possible outcomes their are some powerful and unpredictable characters in this fight.

  39. El Zilcho March 9, 2009 at 4:45 am -      #39

    @ Wraith
    It’s unlikely that Sauron could use the ring to dominate “the bad guys” (I assume you mean Kratos and Gannondorf). The ring can not dominate the wills of being equal to or stronger then Sauron himself, regardless of how much it amplifies his power. He certainly couldn’t dominate Kratos (he is a god) while the Triforce of Power would most likely save Gannondorf from that fate (that’s not saying Gannondorf is more powerful, I just believe Sauron will need to beat him down the old fashion way instead of brainwashing him).

    “[Mazrim] Taim sometimes steals control of Saidar from Rand”
    Saidin is the male half of the one power whereas Saidar is the female half. And when you say Taim I think you mean Lews Therin Telamon, the previous Dragon who now resides inside of Rand’s mind. Essentially Lews Therin is a raving madman. If he did take control of the source from Rand (this happens in the Knife of Dreams) he would most likely lash out at every other contestant in the match. Lews Therin also knows more weaves then Rand, which would make him even far deadlier in many ways. However, the chances of Lews Therin doing this during battle is unlikely; he is shown to be scared of the Choedan Kal in Winter’s Heart, so instead he would settle for telling Rand to “kill everyone” or saying that “this is dangerous”. In the end his presence wouldn’t affect the overall.

    The cause of the sickness that affects Rand when he draws on Saidin is currently unknown, although there are two schools of thought on the matter. The first one is that it is the result of continual use of tainted Saidin. The second is that it is the result of the bond which has been formed between Rand and Moridin since they crossed balefire streams at the end of A Crown of Swords. I happen to lean towards the second explanation, due to the fact that the symptoms don’t appear till A Path of Daggers and it makes for a better plot. His sickness could also be affected by the continual use of the True Power by Moridin which corrupts the user more so then using tainted Saidin. Either way, the end result is that Rand gets double vision and feels queasy whenever he draws on or lets go of Saidin. This only lasts for a couple of seconds. Considering this is one big fight, he would draw on Saidin, feel sick for a few seconds, and then proceed to annihilate most of the opponents who came up against him.

    @ – =[BF]=JimmieRox
    The ability to turn invisible would hardly help Sauron to be honest. All Rand needs to do is cause the ground to split open or erupt in a vey large radius where invisible Sauron is standing.

    As for the actual ring, I don’t know if balefire could erase it. This is one of the problems with the cross universe fights. Nothing can stop balefire, but the ring can not be unmade by anyone except Sauron, and it can not be destroyed except at the place where it was made. There is however the possibility of using a powerful enough stream of balefire (drawn through the Choedan Kal) to erase Sauron back to a point before he made the ring, causing the ring to simply vanish out of existence. There is another problem though, if Sauron ceases to exist, what happens to the ring? It is empowered with his own essence, so would he somehow manage to survive balefire, or would the ring lose its power and become and ordinary gold ring?

    @Mata and aperson
    I think we have to call this fight a draw between Thor and Rand. There really is no way to prove who will win, unless something new is revealed to us in a Memory of Light or a new edition of the Thor comics.

    Where do you find the pictures for the website? They look great and I would love to see more of them.

  40. admin March 9, 2009 at 8:29 am -      #40

    @El Zilcho –

    These are the four sites I’ll start looking at, and I’ve probably used them for about 98% of all pictures found on the site:
    google image search
    Yahoo image search

  41. Matapiojo March 9, 2009 at 8:46 am -      #41

    “I think we have to call this fight a draw between Thor and Rand. There really is no way to prove who will win, unless something new is revealed to us in a Memory of Light or a new edition of the Thor comics.”

    I think I am inclined to agree with you, mate.

  42. JoshMcFace March 9, 2009 at 11:57 am -      #42

    El Zilcho (great name btw), the one ring IS impervious to all but the fires of Mount Doom (even the fire of the dragons, which could destroy the other rings, is said to have no effect). And this is not because Mount Doom simply has enough destructive power to undo the ring, it was simply written into the ring’s magic that it only had one place of undoing.

    It is true that the invisibility trick of the ring’s is of little use, especially considering the much more vast powers it has, such as heightening senses and physical powers (but not higher than any beings greater than Sauron in physical strength), possible persuasion powers and telepathy, and the corruption of anyone who wears it to name a few.

    Interesting idea about what would happen if Sauron was to cease to exist. We only ever learn that Sauron is dependent on the ring to remain immortal, not if the ring is dependent on Sauron, or if it would keep the part of Sauron’s “life force” that it contains.

    To where exactly does balefire banish people? As Sauron can only be contained in the Void. He cannot however, be cease to exist completely as you suggest. Even if he were banished, his immortal spirit would live on until the end of time itself, so the ring may be able retain it’s part of Sauron’s power, though Sauron’s true influence in the physical world would be a mere shadow. There’s also the possible idea that Sauron actually would keep coming back as long as the ring survived.

    Anyhoo, depending on what era this Sauron comes from, he may also have a load of other powers to deal with (transforming etc).

  43. Matapiojo March 9, 2009 at 2:13 pm -      #43

    See, but that is the precise point of debate. Balefire simply removes the target from existence. Whatever it was supposed to hit, ceaces to be. No banishment. No imprisonment. This is not a case of the Ring being destroyed, it is a case of the Ring not BEING.

    If hit by it, Sauron is just no more. Balefire is one of the scariest powers to have ever been coocked-up in any reality. It taps into the power of creation itself.

    The instance where Rand has successfully attacked someone with this thing, the person’s actions were as if they did not happen for some moments past. If the target had killed someone a few minutes ago, then he was hit by Balefire, the previously deceased individual would just be back as if he was never slain.

    I would be frightened to see how far back Rand can push the effects of the Balefire when it is being fueled by the Choendal Kal. He could quite possibly unravel reality.

  44. JoshMcFace March 10, 2009 at 11:46 am -      #44

    Wow that truly is a terrifying ability to anyone going up against it. Seeing as it uses the power of creation itself (the one thing that Morgoth himself could not imitate) there’s a high chance that it would be the end of Sauron, despite his immortal soul.

  45. El Zilcho March 13, 2009 at 12:51 am -      #45

    @ Admin
    Thanks for the websites

    @ JoshMcFace
    Yeh I like the name, it’s off one of my favourite episodes of Futurama. As for balefire, it’s a very scary and a very interesting weapon. I look forward to seeing how it works against other characters on the website.

  46. Wraith March 17, 2009 at 10:48 am -      #46

    @ El Zilcho
    I stand corrected on the WoT stuff. I dont have the time to go back and refresh my mremory on most the things in that series.

  47. jordan Thurman March 18, 2009 at 1:31 pm -      #47

    Link has the master sword and awesome skills but the truth is Link would be the first or second to die. Then gannondorf is a wuss, I mean he cant beat up a teenager with all his dark power? cloud would last a while but he would die, but not without cuting someone up (maybe killing link or gannondorf or both). I dont know any thing about Rand and Richard. I do know sauron cant die and is almost god like. Thor is a thunder god. Kratos is more tytan than god so….
    top 4 :Thor :Sauron:Kratos or Rand

    (what can rand do??????????

  48. Matapiojo March 18, 2009 at 2:00 pm -      #48

    “what can rand do??????????”

    Here’s an alien concept…



  49. jordan Thurman March 18, 2009 at 6:54 pm -      #49

    I’ll read the book someday but as of right now I got 10 other books im reading

    though my brother said he’s godly

  50. Ramen March 22, 2009 at 7:46 pm -      #50

    Which Link are you talking about.

  51. Ramen March 22, 2009 at 7:47 pm -      #51

    Which Link are you talking about first off?

  52. Space marine March 25, 2009 at 10:46 pm -      #52

    I wonder how Rand al’Thor would fare against Kharn?

  53. El Zilcho March 26, 2009 at 1:39 am -      #53

    @ Space Marine
    Hmmm, that’s a good question. It depends on whether or not Kharn is immune to balefire, a debate which really has no answer (but I would be inclined to say he isn’t).
    Other then that the Rand really only has two moves/options that might work.
    1) Death Gate: opening a hole in reality, and then closing it on the target, cutting them in half. This might work because technically, Kharn is not being affected by magic, but rather the fabric of space and reality. However, his can still be resurrected.
    2) Retreating to Tel’Aran’Rihod: Tel’Aran’Rihod is the world of dreams, although it can be entered physically through gateways (which Rand can create). In world of dreams almost anything is possible, you can change you clothes at will, cause enslaving devices to appear right on a person and more. Anything that happens in the world of dreams is reflected in the real world, including death. However this is not a very sound tactic for 3 reasons: 1) Rand hasn’t been taught to manipulate the world of dreams (although he knows how to enter it). 2) Kharn still has to follow him through. 3) Unlike with balefire, Khorne will still be able to resurrect his champion.

    So either way this fight is a landslide victory for one of the contestants. Either Kharn is immune to balefire and Rand gets a chain axe to the face or Kharn is not immune to balefire, and thus ceases to exist (which mean no resurrections).

    @jordan Thurman
    Matapiojo means read the posts. While it won’t tell you everything about Rand, it will give you a good idea of where he is on the power scale (bloody high up).

  54. Matapiojo March 26, 2009 at 6:17 am -      #54

    “I wonder how Rand al’Thor would fare against Kharn?”

    With the Blessing of Khorne, not very well I’m afraid.

    “Which Link are you talking about first off?”

    This is a tough one to answer. As a rule of thumb, we utilize the latest incarnation, current canon to discuss the people in these matches unless specifically informed in the fight’s scenario.

    Technically, there is only one Link. There might be many, but in truth they are all one and the same. He just keeps getting reincarnated along with his Triforce counterparts.

    For the purpose of answering your question a bit more directly, I’d say Twilight’s Link.

  55. Master Arbiter(Spartan G44) March 26, 2009 at 8:21 pm -      #55

    Ibelive evryone woul;d start out and gang on thor so I think Sauron has the win. Or Kratos.

  56. El Zilcho March 28, 2009 at 8:04 pm -      #56

    ““I wonder how Rand al’Thor would fare against Kharn?”

    With the Blessing of Khorne, not very well I’m afraid.”

    With this, we have discovered another unstoppable force versus immovable object.
    Or more specifically, an unstoppable beam of anti-creation versus an immovable divine blessing which dissipates magic.
    The only reason I’m inclined to say that balefire wins is because, according to the blessing of Khorne only makes Kharn “immune to the effects of psychic powers”. Technically, balefire isn’t psychic.

  57. LO-G April 12, 2009 at 7:47 pm -      #57

    Link puts on the fierce dietys mask and kills them all

  58. El Zilcho April 12, 2009 at 9:23 pm -      #58

    “Link puts on the fierce dietys mask and kills them all”

    Read the other posts on this thread, and you’ll realize that there’s 3 other characters to whom Fierce Deity Link is no threat in this fight alone.

    I’ll give you a hint to who they are:

  59. Battra Boy April 13, 2009 at 4:33 am -      #59

    Kratos has this hands down, Unless you happen to be carrying around the blade of olympus, you’re screwed.

  60. Matapiojo April 13, 2009 at 7:06 am -      #60

    “I’ll give you a hint to who they are:

    I would consider the total to be 4 as Kratos is pretty much the Fierce Deity without being trapped in an inanimate object and needing a vessel to manifest a weaker self.

    In any case, a Choedan Kal empowered Blafire beam would have the same effect on plain-old Link and godly-buffed Link.


  61. El Zilcho April 13, 2009 at 9:01 pm -      #61

    I didn’t mention Kratos because Link is currently winning the Link v Kratos thread.

  62. Jake June 13, 2009 at 2:45 am -      #62

    big fan of the wheel of time series. Rand would use a sa’angrael and kill all of them instantly with balefire. end of dicusion people

  63. GodlyxSephiroth June 13, 2009 at 5:17 pm -      #63

    ok, rands ability to “silence” doesnt really work the way youre saying. he can cut off people who channel saidar or saidin. saidin is the source he draws his power from.
    i think richard as a war wizard with the sword of truth would be a good fight against rand with callandor. both swords, to an extent can block magic.
    both of their magics are incredibly powerful and would probaably split the world open,
    both being people with integrity and incredible skill with a blade, they should settle their battle with a one on one sword duel.

    the reason i am disregarding everyone else is because rand or richard could absolutely obliterate them all.

    but, rand holding callandor and his sa’angreal statue, it would just not be fair.
    as a character named lanfear said in the books, with the statues they would easily challenge the creator himself.

    and if he was in any trouble at all.

    bale fire.

    instant win.

  64. kano547 June 15, 2009 at 6:54 pm -      #64

    can someone tell me which book that pic of al’thor comes from so that i know when he stops being an asshat and becomes awsome?

  65. Pondering Fool June 15, 2009 at 8:15 pm -      #65

    May someone please inform on Richard Rahl’s abilities are. I have read Wizard’s First Rule (the first book in the Sword of Truth series), but that was years ago. So if anyone can bring up some information on him, thanks.

    – pondering fool

  66. admin June 16, 2009 at 12:48 am -      #66

    @Pondering Fool – Ah, ye has awoken the fanboy in me as I add some info about Richard Rahl:


    Seeker of Truth

    Richard Rahl is a Seeker of Truth – a true Seeker, named by the current First Wizard based on his inherent abilities, as opposed to pretend Seekers named arbitrarily by governments in the decades preceding the story of the books. As such, he has several unique character traits on the verge of magic: although he dislikes riddles, he is driven to always find the truth of things and is extremely proficient at it, apparently by instinct. Also, he is very quick to anger. Since otherwise his personality is quite pleasant and optimistic, albeit impatient, the anger appears to stem mainly from his being a Seeker. Considering how the Sword of Truth, the unique magical weapon of the Seeker, works, anger may very well be called the primary characteristic of a Seeker. Without it, the Sword, and most of his combat abilities, which are linked to it, would be next to useless, even dangerous to its wielder. Aside from its main function, the Sword of Truth possesses other qualities, usually in relation to certain other powerful magics (like the ability to partially counter a Chainfire, for instance), hinting at it being likely one of the most powerful magical objects in the New World. However, as First Wizard Zorander had said, the Sword is not the weapon, the Seeker is. It is the unique personality and abilities, supported by the powers of the sword, that make a Seeker capable of influencing events at a grand scale. Accordingly, the Seeker is held in extraordinarily high esteem throughout the New World and granted complete independence from monarchs and governments.

    War Wizard

    Later on in the series it turns out that Richard is a War Wizard – one born with the Gift in its full form, both subtractive and additive magic. That by itself would not be so extraordinary, as this is the naturally prevalent way for Gifted to be born (although with varying aptitudes for one side in favor of the other), if Richard were not the first War Wizard born in three thousand years. The circumstances leading to Subtractive magic going next to extinct are the subject of the plots of several books in the series and are the doing of wizards in the distant past. While being the only one presents Richard with the challenge of learning to master an ability none other alive have or can teach (save for help in the form of an instruction book left to him by his ancient predecessor, First Wizard Baraccus), it also makes him potentially the most powerful wizard alive. However, the powers actually at Richard´s command are growing only gradually, making him still look up to his friend (and grandfather) First Wizard Zeddicus “Zedd” Zu’l Zorander as the more experienced, wiser and stronger one.

    Lord Rahl

    By inheritance of bloodline, being the son of Darken Rahl, Richard is the Lord Rahl of the House of Rahl and the Empire of D’Hara. While that is not an ability in itself, there is the matter of the bond, or Devotion, an ancient spell that binds every Lord Rahl to his people, among others giving them protection from the magic of the Dream Walker and making the Agiel weapons of the Mord-Sith work.

    Here’s where I swiped the info:

  67. Pondering Fool June 16, 2009 at 7:26 am -      #67

    I have awaken Admin fan-boyism…what have I wrought! (jk admin)
    thanks for the information, and can’t wait to continue on the Sword of Truth series with the Stone of Tears.

    – pondering fool

  68. Megafire June 16, 2009 at 8:06 am -      #68

    Oh, Admin, I just noticed that you thought Rahl could outsmart the others, I would like to give a counterargument for that as well, from Rand’s point of view.

    He has been playing the Game of Houses for a long while now, and while he may not like it, he’s pretty damn good at it. He knows what to look for and when someone is trying to deceive him, he’s not easy to be outsmarted.

  69. Matapiojo June 16, 2009 at 8:17 am -      #69

    Haha, yes.

    The Sword of Truth always makes admin crawl out of his lair.

    True story.

    I confess, the fanboy in me just can’t resist. You should all hope that Robotech never gets big, as that is my fave sci-fi series. Admin

  70. admin June 16, 2009 at 8:26 am -      #70

    @Megafire – Agreed. As with all series, the hero will always have a mechanism to win in their world as provided by the author. It’s always hard to “normalize” the playing field so that we could determine who’s “powers” would have more impact over the other. But, that’s what makes all of this fun.

    So, doing my best ExpertImp impression:

    RICHARD RAHL WINS /face (still not sure what that is…)

  71. Matapiojo June 16, 2009 at 8:31 am -      #71

    “You should all hope that Robotech never gets big, as that is my fave sci-fi series. Admin”

    Dude, I think YOU should totally make it big. I know that a couple of us have wrought that same potency over other subjects (I think I could be blamed for Kharn, Rand, and DUH Ghost Rider at the very least). Hell, I am trying to do Stargate, but this one doesn’t seem to stick.

    Baron put Sir Dan on the map, marche has elevated the entire Marvel universe to the greatness it deserves, and Skrunks brought Samus to a whole nother level that transcended all of her game character counterparts.

    I say, DO IT!

  72. admin June 16, 2009 at 8:38 am -      #72

    @Matapiojo – Oh, that is soo tempting…

  73. Matapiojo June 16, 2009 at 8:43 am -      #73

    You know what?

    I think its time to make it official, and I am possitive you will flex your admin muscle and jump right at it.

    Richard Rahl vs. Rand Al’thor

    I said it.

    Also, Robotech vs. Star Trek

    How you like dem apples?

    …………………Do as thou wilt.

  74. Pondering Fool June 16, 2009 at 2:05 pm -      #74


    The struggle inside Admin soul is slowing evaporating as he gives in to his desire…….give in!

    – pondering fool

  75. Matapiojo June 16, 2009 at 2:14 pm -      #75

    Oh don’t you worry, he will.

    Admin likes to flex his almighty site-muscle every now and then. If it wasn’t for this, there would be NO posts with Richard Rahl, no posts with Robotech, and probably no posts of Lobo either.

    I’m just a gust of wind under the wing of a vulture in mid flight.

    LOL – Admin

  76. Marche June 16, 2009 at 2:57 pm -      #76

    “marche has elevated the entire Marvel universe to the greatness it deserves”
    I plan to countine to boost the lesser known characters and thier feats,through battles a respect threads.

    Thinking of adding in some Sonic(Archie style.)

  77. kano547 June 17, 2009 at 1:02 am -      #77

    dont get me wrong i love the sword of truth books(then again i read the backs of cerial boxes) but having read a few i havent seen him wield enough magical might to compete with these guys.four of them are demi gods (im counting rand mostly because of balefire because it can go back in time to kill you)and the others are so powerful they might as well be. from what ive read he is so outclassed in magic its not even an option in this fight,and as for melee well, the realy angry sword(cue lfg reference) isnt gonna help much against cloud can pretty much fly and kratos who ive made put his fist through the head of a monster even zeus feared.i frankly just dont think he is in the same class as the rest of the guys in this match.come to think of it i dont feel al’thor belongs here either.

  78. Matapiojo June 17, 2009 at 5:49 am -      #78

    “I plan to countine to boost the lesser known characters and thier feats,through battles a respect threads.

    Thinking of adding in some Sonic(Archie style.)”

    And your efforts are greatly appreciated by this avid marvel fan. You just keep trucking.

  79. Pondering Fool June 17, 2009 at 7:19 am -      #79

    @ kano547

    All I am going to say, is be careful when you critize Richard Rhal… don’t know what Admin might do……beware!

    – pondering fool

  80. Matapiojo June 17, 2009 at 8:08 am -      #80

    At the behest of him breaking his vow of neutrality, I call down the admin so he can shed much light unto the shadow that is Richard Rahl for kano’s benefit.

  81. admin June 17, 2009 at 8:13 am -      #81

    @kano547 –

    By all means, al’thor belongs in this match. Both he and Rahl possess magical abilities that can counter anything any of the more well known characters can toss at them.


    Rahl – what gives him a chance in this and any match is the fact that he doesn’t always use brute force to win. For example, a physical match against Kratos would probably end in defeat for Rahl. So, instead he would engage Kratos in a battle that included intelligence to win. Be it a series of side-stepping his attacks while attacking the will of Kratos, or while Thor calls upon the powers of Odin, he would get him to think about his actions. Rahl typically wins by thinking about the solution, and not the problem.

    Sounds simple enough, and just because a character is super-powered doesn’t mean they will always win.

    Secondly, Rahl’s ability to use magic is similar to Dr. Strange – While he doesn’t have a vast array of spells that he knows to cast, instead, he can create magic to satisfy whatever his perceived need is at the moment. So, while Rahl might be able to cast a spell to beat Kratos, chances are he may never be able to summon that spell again against any other opponent, since the need at that time would be different for that opponent.

    These two factors are what give Rahl a chance.


  82. Pondering Fool June 17, 2009 at 12:55 pm -      #82

    Has admin ever sided or commented on a match as much as he has done now? The day of reckoning seems to have arrived on BankGambling!

    – pondering fool

  83. kano547 June 17, 2009 at 11:49 pm -      #83


    youve said much but explained little. im trying to read the series but the old ones are supprisingly hard to find and im not sure as to rahls power levels and looking at the the others i think magic is his only chance to win considering cloud ,link,kratos,sauron,and thor could wipe him uot as an afterthought in a straight sword fight and im not convinced that he could keep up with the other magic users because as warhammer has proven time and time again harsh enviroments breed great warriors and d’hara and the middlands just arent as brutal as the others homes.

    @pondering fool

    im not critisizing him i like the character and the books are great(he does mope alot though)but hes not as powerful as the others because he doesnt need to be his enemies are as powerful as what the others have to deal with.i dont know about the others but rand and kratos have to fight gods

  84. Pondering Fool June 18, 2009 at 12:32 pm -      #84


    Just a simple jest my friend, just a jest. Still I do love the Sword of Truth Series…now on Temple of the Winds!

    – pondering fool

  85. Zachalink June 23, 2009 at 1:49 am -      #85

    Epic battle! well I have to say this will most likely come down to link,Cloud,rand al’thor,and Ganondorf. Richard Rahl whould probably go down first, due to Link and Cloud being better magic users and sword fighters and they have faced worse enemies in the past. if link uses the soul edge not only whould give link control of Ganondorf, but also give him power to destroy worlds and if he does kratos is the god of nothing so is thor. Also that stop sauron’s chaos plus link could make short work of him with the master sword and light arrows. Even if rand al’thor silenced magic link and cloud are still pysicaly skilled and strong enough to take him down. So once Rand is dead link and cloud whould have their magic back. But link is a far more versital fighter than cloud and he has already deafted Ganondorf. So Link wins but not easly. anyone who disigrees I will be more than happey to prove you wrong!

  86. Zachalink June 23, 2009 at 2:38 am -      #86

    Oh, did I foget link can clone him self 4 times with the four swords. The four swords also have tons of fairies to revive link with. And one of the for could put on the fierce deity mask making him become friece deity link who has many thousands of years of expirence he also caries a powerful sword shaped like a double helix. So friece deity link whould easly anihilate thor and kratos. Also link can summon tons of creatures with the soul edge. Also he can reach unbelevable speeds with the pegases boots and bunny hood, unbeleavable streghnth with the power bracelets,titan’s mits,silver gauntlets, and gold gauntlets. Not to mention countless barriers such as the cain of brynia,naru’s love,Zora shield, and Magic armor. plus Chatue romainia to make them last forever because they require magic and catue romainia gives you an endless supply of it.

  87. Jason Ford June 23, 2009 at 9:19 am -      #87

    Richard Rahl commands the power of Orden, the power of life and creation itself. Nuff said.

  88. Jason Ford June 23, 2009 at 9:37 am -      #88

    On second thought, if we were to just go on fighting ability. Richard is the one true Seeker. The ONLY one, in fact, who can truly use the Sword of Truth to it’s full potential. He would be immune to the ring of Sauron. His intincts and reflexes are without match. He has never been bested in a one on one, or a 30 to one, or a any match with a sword. He defeated 30 “blade masters”, whose whole lives were devoted to the mastery of the sword. Also, being the holder of the only true key to the power of Orden, ….. He is without match. Besides, he also would not be involved in such a fight, unless Kalhan were in trouble, or he had no other choice. I would not want to be in his sights with that much anger and focused rage. He is also guided by his gift, which has saved him numbers of times. Even cut off from his gift he is as deadly an opponent as you can come across. It would be a grave mistake to underestimate Richard Rahl, much less discount him even the slightest bit.

  89. Jason Ford June 23, 2009 at 10:24 am -      #89


  90. Jason Ford June 23, 2009 at 10:28 am -      #90

    Hello, anybody there? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

  91. Matapiojo June 23, 2009 at 10:55 am -      #91

    Settle down, son. Thats not how the site works. You post something first and then you paitiently wait for other messages to appear as they are posted / admid approves them.

    As for your oppinions,

    Rand Al’Thor has similar claims in his story to the ones you explain for Rahl. He is the Dragon Reborn. Only he can tap the power of Callandor and is an un-named Blade Master that has defeated several other bearers of the title. He has cleansed Saidin and formed the Black Tower. He can tap enough power from the True Source that he could challenge the Creator.

    Just listing possitive attributes of each combatant is not enough. You must expose reasons and examples of how those attributes might match against one another.

    btw – typing in all caps and in multiple posts will not help you gain simpathy from others.

  92. Jason Ford June 23, 2009 at 11:45 am -      #92

    rand al’thor is not the only who can tap the power of callandor, besides, using callandor actually makes the weilder more insane. rand, “the dragon reborn’ was the only one who could release callandor from it’s place of rest. he did supposedly cleanse saidin and the black tower is not really a big thing to boast about. in fact, the black tower has pretty much been taken over by mazrim taim and is a den of evil, at least until rand takes it back, if. Also, the statement that through the keys he can tap enough of the one power to challenge the creator is only a statement of conjecture through other characters in the books; and, i might add that was only if it was done with both the male and female keys, and he would need another to accomplish that, say someone like lanfear.

    Oh, i thought i did that. okay, the power of orden can and will nullify the power of balefire. so, the balefire theory is out. the ability with a blade has already been established. richard rahl never had to sheath the blade to win a fight, and he often has to battle more than one opponent at a time. rand really has only had one on one battles with the blade. and we already what the outcome would be in the battle of wits.

    nice banter, though, i like it. bring it on.

  93. Jason Ford June 23, 2009 at 12:10 pm -      #93

    oh yeah, not to split hairs or anything. rand “cleansed” saidin with the aid of the female key, which on a female can use, which was used by Nynaeve. So, let’s give credit where credit is due, the “dragon reborn” did not do it by himself.

  94. x on June 23, 2009 at 12:11 pm -      #94

    Im just going to call bull on Jason Ford posts…

  95. Megafire June 23, 2009 at 12:16 pm -      #95

    Nothing but Cuendillar stops balefire. A Choedan Kal powered Balefire would erase all combatants and their entire existence ever. Essentially making them not exist.

    Rand has the same claims with a blade as Richard Rahl does. I’d have to say they’re evenly matched in terms of blade use. And while Rand may be insane, he’s pretty damn smart and logical. On wits… well, I guess they’re evenly matched, actually.

    Why would the power of Orden Can stop balefire? Explain that one please.

  96. Jason Ford June 23, 2009 at 12:17 pm -      #96

    the “chainfire” event is a magic like that of balefire. a magic which destroys, a negative effect. and, like balefire, it has the capacity to destroy the very fabric of reality, of life itself. The power of orden is the exact opposite, in fact, it’s very nature is the counter to it, plus, by that nature it’s power is way beyond anything any of the others can conceive. I would say check, but i think i will say instead check mate.

  97. Baron Somebody June 23, 2009 at 12:34 pm -      #97

    I’d say Sauron wins, nobody here can really do anything to him

  98. Matapiojo June 23, 2009 at 12:43 pm -      #98

    Nope, you are missled.

    “rand al’thor is not the only who can tap the power of callandor, besides, using callandor actually makes the weilder more insane. rand, “the dragon reborn’ was the only one who could release callandor from it’s place of rest.”

    This was before the cleansing of Saidin. It is understood that by doing this, Rand freed his burden to effectively wield Callandor in battle on Tarmon Gai’don.

    The only other individual that has been demonstrated to have the ability to tap into Callandor has been Jahar Narishma. A powrful Asha’man that is absolutely loyal to the Dragon Reborn. Due to this fact, it is beleived that he acted as a conduit to the Dragon Reborn’s will as he was directly instructed by Rand to retreive Callandor from the Stone of Tear.

    “he did supposedly cleanse saidin and the black tower is not really a big thing to boast about. in fact, the black tower has pretty much been taken over by mazrim taim and is a den of evil, at least until rand takes it back, if.”

    Yes, it is. Despite the current political affairs, the founding of the Black Tower is a major event in the quest to battle the Dark One on Tarmon Gai’don. The fact that Rand is so adept at playing the game of houses that Mazrim’s plots bare little threat to his own devices speaks volumes.

    Also, Rand didn’t “supposedly” cleanse Saidin of the taint. He DID cleanse Saidin. This matter is not even debatable.

    “Also, the statement that through the keys he can tap enough of the one power to challenge the creator is only a statement of conjecture through other characters in the books; and, i might add that was only if it was done with both the male and female keys, and he would need another to accomplish that, say someone like lanfear.”

    Just because it has been stated by other characters in the story (Rand’s enemies, no less), the statement is substantiated. Such a statement comming from one of the most powerful individuals in the book is nothing to scoff at.

    It has been noted that the access key to the male statue is still capable of fully tapping into the source. It is understood that this is so to fullfill prophesy by having the Dragon tap into the Choendal Kal.

    “okay, the power of orden can and will nullify the power of balefire. so, the balefire theory is out.”

    Jesus. That is as inconsequential as saying red paint won’t mix with blue. What is the source of your reasoning? What leads you to come to this determination?

    As far as I know, Balefire is the absolute most definitive spell/ability I have ever seen in any fictional story. This power is more absolute than Darkseid’s Omega Beams, or Ghost Rider’s Penance Stare, or Vader’s Force Choke, or even Silver Surfer’s Power Cosmic. Once you are hit with Balefire, that is it. Game over.

    “the ability with a blade has already been established. richard rahl never had to sheath the blade to win a fight, and he often has to battle more than one opponent at a time. rand really has only had one on one battles with the blade.”

    That matters very little when the oponent you are arguing for will be in fact just one…

    “and we already what the outcome would be in the battle of wits.”

    Al’Thor is adept at playing the Game of Houses. Often out-thinking and out-maneuvering seasoned generals, kings, and Forsaken alike. I have no idea what it is you have “determined” as measuring wits between these two would be nigh impossible.
    Bending facts to match your opinions will hardly make the facts untrue.

    I am all for Richard to be proven the superior, but your comments are vastly insufficient at achieving that. You might need help from admin here as I consider him to be knowledgeable in the topic.

  99. Matapiojo June 23, 2009 at 1:00 pm -      #99

    “the “chainfire” event is a magic like that of balefire. a magic which destroys, a negative effect. and, like balefire, it has the capacity to destroy the very fabric of reality, of life itself. The power of orden is the exact opposite, in fact, it’s very nature is the counter to it, plus, by that nature it’s power is way beyond anything any of the others can conceive. I would say check, but i think i will say instead check mate.”

    Far from it. You see, you are again missled by what Balefire does. This is not the same as the Chainfire spell and the subsequent development of the Orden magic.

    The Chainfire Event acts similar in that it destroys memories or recording of the victim of the spell, but this is not what Balefire does. The victim of the Chainfire Event remains in the world. Others will forget he existed, records will be erased, but he will still be there. The event unravels certain aspects of reality, but it does not remove them altogether.

    The target (be it an individual or inanimate matter) of a Balefire spell will be completely removed from reality. Thats it. Poof. Gone. Peace out, homes. People have disapeared, lines have been “cut” into walls, etc.

    Not the same spells at all.

    Further, Orden magic is created from Additive magic. A direct counter to the Negative magic that fuels Chainfire. This rules it out as a counter to Balefire as it simply doesn’t have the same “juice”.

    Balefire is formed by both sides of the Source. Both male and female weavers can cast this spell. It has no counter.

    Chainfire affects reality.

    Balefire IS reality (or lack of there of).
    Check mate?

    Please. Your uninformed arrogance hardly justifies such statements.

  100. Zachalink June 23, 2009 at 1:13 pm -      #100

    But the goron tunic prevents link from takeing damage from fire, so nether chainfire or balefire will affect him. Also just like the power of orden the majoras’s mask could control life it self but never affected link so power of orden most likely whouldn’t ether.

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