Galen Marek (Starkiller) Vs Mace Windu

Galen Marek (Starkiller) Vs Mace Windu

This would make for a great fight (or video game for that matter, are you listening, LucasArts?).
Anyways, while I think Mace would put up an epic fight, in the end methinks that Starkiller would find a way to overpower him…

…your thoughts?

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61 Comments on "Galen Marek (Starkiller) Vs Mace Windu"

  1. hellatus February 12, 2009 at 5:11 am -      #1

    i know there will be challenge but starkiller wins this by long not that easy but starkiller is the most powerful force user

  2. Thepocalypse February 12, 2009 at 6:45 am -      #2

    Galen is one of the most powerful force adepts who ever lived. Mace is one of the greatest swordsman and pretty badass, but no real match for Starkiller. This can be deduced by simple equation Vader > Mace, Starkiller > Vader. Easy.

  3. Matapiojo February 12, 2009 at 12:46 pm -      #3

    “Vader > Mace, Starkiller > Vader. Easy.”

    I say that you, sir, must be high. In almost every post you manage to say something of this caliber.

    Please do try to explain thins “Vader>Mace” concept of yours.

  4. Thepocalypse February 12, 2009 at 2:17 pm -      #4

    He did slice his arm off so quickly he couldn’t even react. And even if they did get in a fight, facing eachother, sabers drawn, it is quite obvious that Vader would win. He’s killed countless Jedi and is more than a match for Mace. By the way, why have you been such a rude jerk lately.

  5. x on February 12, 2009 at 2:31 pm -      #5

    Thepocalypse your a idit…

  6. Matapiojo February 12, 2009 at 2:59 pm -      #6

    I see, well that is purely circumstational events. It is the same reason Luke gets his arm cut of by Vader, Anakin gets his hand severed by Duku, then the rest of himself by Obi-wan, and even Solo short-circuiting Boba Fett’s jet pack. These are no real measures of strength or fighting prowess. They are simply gimmicks to further a plot.

    Windu was not expecting lethal action done against him by Anakin. It is quite simple. His prowess was not known for his ability to foresee events. With his prime method of defense/offense lost, he was simply too exposed to survive the emperor’s attack, and even then, that point is still open for many a story to be developed.

    After all, Boba Fett survived the Sarlac…

    I did not state that you were particularly wrong, just that your statements seem flawed. They CERTAINLY do not reflect the reality of the matches.

    If I seem to offend, I just ask you grow a bit of thicker skin. I am nothing but an opinion voiced through this annonymous digital medium.

    I will try to not be as blunt is that helps matters. Lets just chalk this up to a bad day and its necessary outlet, and leave it at that.

  7. Naki February 12, 2009 at 3:39 pm -      #7

    Wow, my dream has been realized! Oh man this is tough… well, we know if it was close combat, mace would have the advantage. If its Force, Galen does, But Galen is very good at saber combat. So i have to give the slight edge to him, because is great at force, and good at saber, whereas Mave is Great at saber, and okay at force.

    Still could definentally go either way.

  8. Cpt Olimar February 12, 2009 at 3:39 pm -      #8

    To add to what Mata said, I would like to say that because of fact that the stronger person doesn’t always beat the weaker person in star wars makes its plot somewhat unpredictable and interesting.

    P.s. i haven’t read the books, so the movies were the plot to me for the first time.

  9. Thepocalypse February 12, 2009 at 4:16 pm -      #9

    Well, I don’t appreciate use of terms such as “retarded” they’re crude and have no place here. And to X on, next time you call someone an idiot, try to spell it correctly.

  10. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 12, 2009 at 5:08 pm -      #10

    I think that Starkiller will triumph in the end, although it will be a close fight with Windu possibly even gaining the uper hand at times. Either that or it will be over in seconds as Starkiller mercilessly crushes Mace’s head with the Force.

  11. x on February 12, 2009 at 5:22 pm -      #11

    Thepocalypse the next time you be a idiot try to shut up… i may not be the best speller but im not a idiot.

  12. The Chosen One February 12, 2009 at 7:19 pm -      #12

    Mace Windu really isnt that strong a jedi. And the Samuel L Jackson cried to get a purple light sabre LOL

  13. Darkforce February 12, 2009 at 8:09 pm -      #13

    mace windo would win.

    mace uses the saber form Vappid wich uses his own anger and the anger of your foe to boost your own power. and starkiller is one pissed of dude, mace would gain a huge advantige.

    and mace has the shaterpoint skill. this is a rare force skill that alows the user to “see” and oppenents weekness.

    power dosnt beat skill and mace is the most skilled jedi in the order.

  14. swifterdeath February 12, 2009 at 8:25 pm -      #14

    “And to X on, next time you call someone an idiot, try to spell it correctly.”

    does it really matter if he spelled it correctly or not? your not a spelling elitist are you? even i could prove your ‘simple equation’ wrong, with one of my own.

    fighter A beats fighter B, fighter B beats fighter C, fighter C beats fighter A

    even if anakin was more powerful then mace does not mean mace couldent beat Galen.

  15. Thepocalypse February 13, 2009 at 3:30 pm -      #15

    “does it really matter if he spelled it correctly or not? your not a spelling elitist are you? even i could prove your ’simple equation’ wrong, with one of my own.”

    I’m clearly pointing out the irony of misspelling the simple word “idiot” when referring to someone as such.

  16. swifterdeath February 13, 2009 at 4:18 pm -      #16

    “I’m clearly pointing out the irony of misspelling the simple word “idiot” when referring to someone as such.”

    yes mis-spelling something is so bad? i know X on hes my bro. i know he is terrible at spelling he asks me how to spell things onoccasions…or mabey? mabey he accidently didnt put the O in…ive messed up words like that before.

  17. darth nihilus #1 February 14, 2009 at 8:54 am -      #17

    @helatus starkiller isn`t the most powerful force user ever sion, nihilus, kreia, darth revan and jedi exile any of them could wipe the floor with him and i don`t know who would win out of mace vs starkiller i think it depend how it play out just like the end of the force unleashed where you could either end up beating the emperor or getting killed really easy by him i think it would play out like that

  18. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 14, 2009 at 11:16 am -      #18

    So what George Lucas states is no longer to be considered canon?

  19. darth nihilus #1 February 14, 2009 at 3:11 pm -      #19

    exactly they`ll say anything that get them money

  20. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 15, 2009 at 4:06 pm -      #20

    It’s still canon though!

  21. Space marine February 16, 2009 at 1:54 am -      #21

    Im not so sure BF….Anyway, Galen marek should win.

  22. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 16, 2009 at 4:49 pm -      #22

    He will, the only thing that’s up for debate is the length of time he needs to do so. Seconds if he goes for the imploding head option and Windu can’t block it. It’s also hard to judge who wins with Lightsaber’s, Mace is the obvious answer but when you think about it Starkiller’s lightsaber form is also completely original, given that he wields his backhanded.

  23. darth nihilus #1 February 17, 2009 at 6:55 pm -      #23

    fine i guess it is but lucasart just got greedy but i`ll go with starkiller cause he got a game made about him :p and i got another idea for duel the guy from fable 1 vs the guy from fable 2

  24. Galen Marek March 6, 2009 at 8:07 am -      #24

    Wow, Darth you are an idiot. If something is considered canon by the owner or maker of something, it is obviously canon. You can go ahead and pretend any of the people you listed are the strongest force users, but that isn’t going to make it true. Face it Starkiller is the strongest force user to ever exist, you were almost there though all of those people you listed are powerful force users as well.

  25. dont care March 8, 2009 at 11:41 am -      #25

    let me just say this no one could defeat mace easily but im going to have to go with the apprentice (is what i call him none of this galen and starkiller BS) they both beat the emperor but of course that little bitch anakin had to come in and cut his damn arm off and with the apprentice gay ass kota had to say its not the jedi way so he didnt kill the emperor but good fight

  26. darth nihilus March 8, 2009 at 1:15 pm -      #26

    galen what with the personal attack i didnt call you an idiot or anyone else and you dont even know about most of the characters i listed and your just a galen fan boy

  27. Zer0 March 10, 2009 at 3:50 pm -      #27

    Frist off I am glad that you used starkillers real name props to you admin!!!
    This time I am glad to say Sith wins.
    Mace (though he is a master jedi) whould stand no chance when faced with the fury of the Starkiller. Come on guys lets face it the starkiller was trained by the “One” so that alone is a winning factor but take in to account that he has such great force power that he could crush mace before mace could even turn on the lightsaber ( come on he could control a stardestroyer with the force)

    P.s FUN FACT THE LIGHT SABER IS REALLY SOUND THE LIGHT COMES FROM THE CRISTAL INSIDE!!!

  28. darth nihilus #1 March 12, 2009 at 11:27 am -      #28

    well people sayin it canon did lucas actually say galen marek would beat mace windu and i got some suggestions proxy (the force unleashed) vs hk-47 and jimmy hopkins vs dennis the menace

  29. Sithis57 April 14, 2009 at 6:44 pm -      #29

    Starkiller because if he was distracted like in Episode 3, Starkiller could kill him.

  30. Skrunks April 14, 2009 at 9:58 pm -      #30

    Am I the only one who thinks Mace would win? Like darkforce said, Mace Windu’s technique is Vappad, a style that he himself developed to channel his own rage, and the rage of the opponent into feedback loops. This is how he was able to defeat the Emperor so easily when even Yoda could not. And Galen wasn’t even the first to use the reverse grip, Adi Gallia was a Jedi Master from the same era as Mace, and Ahsoka Tano used the same style as well. If he used Force Lightning on Mace, Mace would do the exact same thing that he did to the Emperor. Not only that, but The Emperor’s Force Lightning was considerbly more Powerful then Galen’s. Furthermore, while Galen has such feats as pulling a Star Destroyer out of Flight, Mace destroyed an entire fricken Driod Army with his bare hands.

    Oh and if you want to use that equation Theapocalyps….

    Mace Windu > The Emperor. The Emperor > Galen. Therefore, Mace Windu > Galen.

    It’s impossible to arbitrarily say Galen Marek is the most powerful Force User ever, since there are sooooooo many of them, and each has their own flavor. Some say the Emperor was the most powerful, which I agree with. No other Sith Lord could use the Force to create Hyperspace storms. Naga Sadow could implode stars with the Force and more then one sith had the ability to transfer his conciousness into another body. ‘Most Powerful’ is a mere matter of opinion and not a quantifiable value.

  31. Sweetlou April 16, 2009 at 3:22 pm -      #31

    I have to agree with Skrunks as far as it being a matter of opinion, but lets look at it all again shall we?

    First off, although Galen Marek is the new badass hero in a new Starwars game that doesn’t mean he is the greatest, and unfortunately most people are basing their opinions on how much they kicked ass with him in the game.

    Now i have both read the novel and played the game. i read the novel first because there is much more plot then in the game. The novel gets into the characters much more than the game does. not to mention the game rushes a lot of things. personally i feel that the game should have never have been made.

    in the book Galen is a very powerful force user, and his abilities with a blade are very good as well, but he has only ever seen the dark side of the force until the end when he turns to the light. He hasn’t had a chance to experience all of the benefits of the lightside. There are many techniques on the lightside of the force that would allow marek to easily get the upper hand on anyone he fought when combined with his darkside knowledge.

    Mace is a lightsider that had to look get very close to the darkside in order to use vappad. and if you do research on the topic, it was such a dangerous and deadly lightsaber form that anyone who wanted to learn it had to get permission from mace himself to use it. also mace has a love for fighting. something everyone will discover with some research into his character. the reason why he is such a good fighter is because he fights like a sith. cold and cruel and the only outcome he sees from a fight is the death of his enemy. which is why he created vappad because it takes all those dark thoughts that he has and uses them to his advantage while fighting by channeling that power into his form.

    now that we have went over what both of their basic stats are lets look at the fight.

    Marek uses a defensive stance while fighting which may help him in the fight against Mace’s offensive style of fighting.
    Mace however uses so much force in his fighting that it may cause Marek to become tired after repeated attack. This can also be very bad for Mace because he may get tired as well.

    Marek is very strong in the force but as i have mentioned before he hasn’t harnessed all the powers from both sides of the force to make him stronger, while Mace Has with his form of fighting.

    Not to mention that the only way mace and Marek would fight would be if Marek didn’t turn to the lightside thus never gaining the knowledge of lightside powers therefor mace would defeat Marek due to Marek’s lack of knowledge in the force.

    And as i have said before the only reason why some of the people on here are saying marek would win is because they kicked ass with him in a video game.

    I apologize if i have offended anyone but i felt the need to get my mind across.

  32. anakin skywalker May 17, 2009 at 7:02 am -      #32

    star killer one of the most power full force user and maybe the best but mace windo is very good at the ligthsaber and starkiller is to so star killer wins

  33. HK-47 May 30, 2009 at 3:02 pm -      #33

    Id say Galen, massive command of the force and an unpredictable fighter.

  34. Ryushi February 14, 2010 at 6:40 pm -      #34

    I just have to say Galen, he’s just too force powerful, otherwise Mace could have a chance

  35. Grand Papa Typhus June 17, 2010 at 11:51 am -      #35

    I’ve had it with these muthafukin siths, on this muthafukin plane!

  36. Eric Gigliotti June 17, 2010 at 12:09 pm -      #36

    “Wow, Darth you are an idiot. If something is considered canon by the owner or maker of something, it is obviously canon. You can go ahead and pretend any of the people you listed are the strongest force users, but that isn’t going to make it true. Face it Starkiller is the strongest force user to ever exist, you were almost there though all of those people you listed are powerful force users as well.”

    You are wrong.

    1. We have already shown on this site that Darth Nihilus, Darth Revan, Darth Malak, Yoda, Lord Hoth, and several other Jedi are more powerful than Galen.

    2. Mace Windu defeated Sidious, someone who Galen could not. Galen’s Force powers are impressive, but Mace will control the battle.

    Mace Windu will find Galen’s shatterpoint and end the battle quickly.

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan
    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nihilus
    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mace_windu
    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shatterpoints

  37. JoshMcFace June 17, 2010 at 2:02 pm -      #37

    I’ve always taken Lucas’s statement as Marek having the highest natural ability in the series, whereas others simply have access more powerful techniques, such as the Force Storm Wormhole and Nihilus’s life drain, or have had more experience.

  38. Eric Gigliotti June 22, 2010 at 8:34 pm -      #38

    “I’ve always taken Lucas’s statement as Marek having the highest natural ability in the series, whereas others simply have access more powerful techniques, such as the Force Storm Wormhole and Nihilus’s life drain, or have had more experience.”

    Exactly, Galen is raw power. But it is uncontrolled, undisciplined, and unrefined. Mace will be able to overpower him with his experience. Sidious couldnt kill Mace with his Force Lightning. Sidious’ Force Lightning is more powerful than Galen’s. Galen wont be able to hurt Mace. Like I posted up there, Mace will find Galen’s shatterpoint (which wont be so hard because of how emotionally unstable Galen is). Then Mace will kill him.

  39. Kyle December 26, 2010 at 12:42 am -      #39

    Can I clear up this argument for you?
    1) Juyo (Starkiller’s preferred form) and Vaapad are the same form, essentially. “Skills and Abilities” part of Starkiller’s profile states he’s a master of Soresu, Sith Shien (where he uses his saber backhanded), and Juyo.
    Mace and Starkiller, somewhat, are about evenly matched in their lightsaber skills. The deciding factor is creativity.

    2) Starkiller trained for twenty years–psychologically damaged Vader tortured him with that training. A little snippet in TFU2 book, I think in first chapter with Starkiller’s clone, says he remembered fighting Vader for HOURS.
    Since Starkiller was very skilled with energy-conservative Soresu, I think it trivial that Mace could’ve tired him out.

    3) Both are strong in the Force, yes–but Starkiller’s learned to channel fear, anger, everything inside him into an Force attack. Mace never learned that, so he’d be an a disadvantage without another tactic of his own.
    Mace used Shatterpoint on inanimate objects. Knowing how focused the Juyo/Vaapad form gets, it’s unlikely Mace would’ve used Shatterpoint on Starkiller’s body (oooh, chunky kibbles!), but how to do it to the Secret Apprentice’s emotions?

    We just need to see this fight animated, though there’s still going to be more disagreements and so on.

  40. Connor December 26, 2010 at 11:06 pm -      #40

    Mace Windu’s Vaapad style, as aforementioned, is designed to channel his own rage and anger while absorbing and redirecting the rage and anger of his opponent into a feedback loop. I personally believe that Palpatine threw the fight during their duel, because if he didn’t, it would have been an eternal stalemate. Impasse.

    Starkiller can cough up almost limitless power, and keep it up for HOURS. As with what I think the Mace vs Palpatine fight was, a Mace vs Starkiller would be an eternal stalemate until they both collapsed from sheer exhaustion, because neither is going to break.

    Eternal impasse.

  41. Kyle December 27, 2010 at 11:58 am -      #41

    Agreed, Connor, except that Mace has spent a lot of time wondering how to defend his love, the Republic (book source: Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover), whereas Starkiller has been busy training all his 20 years under Vader.

    “You were weak when I found you. You should never have survived my training”–Vader before telling Starkiller to destroy Kota.

    Chosen One’s got incredible willpower and so on. Starkiller was forced to learn the same to survive. Mace, theoretically, could duel Vader and hold his own for hours, but Vader’s suit keeps him fighting for days without pause. Starkiller’s brutal training means HE can sprint, fight, dash, and all those crazy moves for several hours–without tiring.

    Seriously though, there’s isn’t anything established about how long exactly Mace and Starkiller each fight until collapsing from exhaustion. I think it may depend how quickly the Jedi Master can notice Starkiller blasting lightning and throwing things at the same time.

    Frankly, though, I’m not sure this discussion can go on much longer.

  42. MedullaPancreas March 29, 2011 at 2:00 am -      #42

    99.9% of people are always going to side with Starkiller no matter who he goes against – the developers, of course, want their contribution to the Star Wars universe to be the coolest. So naturally they’re going to take every opportunity to show how much cooler and amazing their character is than any other in Star Wars history. However, I personally find the powers of Starkiller to be a bit cartoony and a bit outlandish even for the Star Wars universe. However, the answer to this hypothetical quandary -Mace vs Starkiller- comes down to one very simple question: can Starkiller defeat the most ambitious Sith the galaxy has ever known? Sorry Sith lovers, according to George Lucas (the final arbiter on all Star Wars matters) Mace Windu (the bad-ass Jedi played by Sam Jackson) did in fact defeat Lord Palpatine in their lightsaber duel (apparently he wasn’t faking loss to turn Anakin.) Yoda himself could not achieve such a feat. And when describing his Master, Obi Wan Kenobi, Anakin explains that Obi Wan has the “wisdom of Master Yoda” but the “power of Master Windu.” This key dialogue illustrates that Master Windu always was the powerhouse of the Jedi Order and all Jedi, even Anakin, knew it (Yoda was wiser in The Force). This sets up his duel with Palpatine nicely. Lastly, Windu completed the lost art known as Form VII and dubbed it Vaapad. Yes, he created his own lightsaber form that, according to Matthew Stover, author of Shatterpoint, navigates the penumbra of The Force, where light and dark meet to channel the power of the dark into a force for light. He was the only Jedi who ever mastered this dangerous form. Many fell trying to mater it.

  43. MedullaPancreas March 29, 2011 at 2:01 am -      #43

    99.9% of people are always going to side with Starkiller no matter who he goes against – the developers, of course, want their contribution to the Star Wars universe to be the coolest. So naturally they’re going to take every opportunity to show how much cooler and amazing their character is than any other in Star Wars history. However, I personally find the powers of Starkiller to be a bit cartoony and a bit outlandish even for the Star Wars universe. However, the answer to this hypothetical quandary -Mace vs Starkiller- comes down to one very simple question: can Starkiller defeat the most ambitious Sith the galaxy has ever known? Sorry Sith lovers, according to George Lucas (the final arbiter on all Star Wars matters) Mace Windu (the bad-ass Jedi played by Sam Jackson) did in fact defeat Lord Palpatine in their lightsaber duel (apparently he wasn’t faking loss to turn Anakin.) Yoda himself could not achieve such a feat. And when describing his Master, Obi Wan Kenobi, Anakin explains that Obi Wan has the “wisdom of Master Yoda” but the “power of Master Windu.” This key dialogue illustrates that Master Windu always was the powerhouse of the Jedi Order and all Jedi, even Anakin, knew it (Yoda was wiser in The Force). This sets up his duel with Palpatine nicely. Lastly, Windu completed the lost art known as Form VII and dubbed it Vaapad. Yes, he created his own lightsaber form that, according to Matthew Stover, author of Shatterpoint, navigates the penumbra of The Force, where light and dark meet to channel the power of the dark into a force for light. He was the only Jedi who ever mastered this dangerous form. Many fell trying to master it.

  44. pimpscastle January 16, 2012 at 9:43 pm -      #44

    if starkiller is the best force user how did a weakend version of palpatine kill him

  45. tartorus April 23, 2012 at 8:12 pm -      #45

    I never really saw all that much power in the starkiller i mean sure hes good but vader orchestrated everything in the force unleashed 2 if you chose the dark side. Windu was more powerful in saber combat than palpatine who beat yoda, and several other jedi masters. the best power ive seen from starkiller would be his force unleashed 2 commercial. Starkiller is a video game character so its difficult to gage his power while windu only really fought twice and never got to showcase his full power so it wold be difficult to determine a winner

  46. jackn8r April 23, 2012 at 8:20 pm -      #46

    ^EU

  47. StealthRanger April 23, 2012 at 8:21 pm -      #47

    ^which is canon

  48. Dr. Rockso April 23, 2012 at 8:40 pm -      #48

    Can starkiller go rage mode in this?

  49. The Expert March 8, 2013 at 12:08 pm -      #49

    Starkiller has one the most powerful version of force right beside the red force lightning im sure that mace windu’s vaapad can absord most of his anger but when it comes down to a lightsaber to lightsaber combat vaapad is the superior style but if starkiller can keep him at a distance the tide may turn

  50. The Expert March 8, 2013 at 1:48 pm -      #50

    If anyone could help me revive this post it is appreciated

  51. The Guardian(s) of the Galaxy in the TARDIS March 8, 2013 at 1:53 pm -      #51

    eh, why not.
    One thing I think could come into play would be shatterpoint, Windu is also prone to throwing the force and aggression into his fighting style channeling emotions normally associated with the dark side out through his attacks and enhancing physical blows with the force.

  52. Marcel March 8, 2013 at 2:18 pm -      #52

    Vapaad reflects anger quite nicely, even from guys as devastating as Sidious, Windu could last quite a long while. However, As seen against Sidious, he cannot reflect it forever if he is up against concentrated amounts of it. If Starkiller goes Force Fury, Mace will probably meet his end fairly quick. As far as the saber goes, they are quite well matched, but Marek seems to have an advantage in the variety of styles he has mastered/fought against. Whether or not Marek has encountered Vapaad or not I am unsure of at this point, so I will not make the assumption yet that all the advantages are in Marek’s favour.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

  53. StealthRanger April 18, 2013 at 9:03 pm -      #53

    Well going by Vader vs Sephiroth and how force users are incapable of instagibbing opponents with the force unless they’re tired or injured to the point they can’t defend, Mace could probably win this, since he’s the far superior swordsman to Galen

  54. Marcel April 19, 2013 at 12:25 am -      #54

    @ Stealth

    Is he? I really do wonder…

  55. StealthRanger April 19, 2013 at 12:29 am -      #55

    Well he did overwhelm Sidious in melee and was considered one of teh best duellists in teh Jedi Order afaik

    And and he faced an entire army of droids and won (Clone War cartoon)

  56. Soulerous April 19, 2013 at 12:41 am -      #56

    I definitely see Mace as superior in melee combat.

  57. Marcel April 19, 2013 at 12:55 am -      #57

    Proxy seems like he’s on Grievous’ level, though. And Vader…is Vader. Both of which Marek has trashed.

  58. Soulerous April 19, 2013 at 1:02 am -      #58

    force users are incapable of instagibbing opponents with the force unless they’re tired or injured to the point they can’t defend
    -I don’t agree with this, however. I explain why in post #508 of this thread. We know Force users don’t instantly kill each other with the Force, but not that they can’t.

  59. StealthRanger April 19, 2013 at 2:15 am -      #59

    “but not that they can’t”

    I thought Pyre said that the instances of that happening (Ep.III at the start when Obi-Wan gets TK’ed by Dooku) were simply PIS

  60. Soulerous April 19, 2013 at 2:32 am -      #60

    Dooku using telekinesis on a Jedi to beneficial effect is Plot-Induced Stupidity? What sense does that make?

  61. StealthRanger April 19, 2013 at 2:34 am -      #61

    …..never mind

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