Halo Vs Mass Effect

Halo Vs Mass Effect

Here we have a clash of two Sci-Fi franchises looking for bragging rights. I don’t know enough about the Mass Effect universe to give a fair estimation on who would win, so I’ll leave it to the good hands of the BankGambling readers.

Who wins?

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6,239 Comments on "Halo Vs Mass Effect"

  1. Aelfinn October 23, 2013 at 11:21 pm -      #5901

    1 foe = 1 (“standard”) supernova or 10 to the 44th Joules. It’s what happens when scientists need to describe things in terms of “supernovae”.

  2. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 23, 2013 at 11:26 pm -      #5902

    Oh, okay.
    -
    I guess that was the sort of inkling I got, but thanks for confirming.
    -
    Also, Farsight had a bit of calc’work he’d like you to look into on that thread you made the “INGLIIIIISH” joke on.

  3. Alpha or Omega October 23, 2013 at 11:27 pm -      #5903

    Ignore post 5893.
    The alpha relays were being talked about and I didn’t realize that.

  4. Aelfinn October 23, 2013 at 11:32 pm -      #5904

    “Also, Farsight had a bit of calc’work he’d like you to look into on that thread you made the “INGLIIIIISH” joke on.”
    -
    Already took care of it. 25 Teratons, if you were interested.

  5. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 23, 2013 at 11:34 pm -      #5905

    Ops, just checked back and saw it was taken care of.
    -
    Somebody please settle this before it gets to 6000 posts. Preeese.

  6. Watchdog Lowk October 23, 2013 at 11:47 pm -      #5906

    “I mean aren’t Reapers the only ones that know how to repair those things?”
    -
    It is mentioned in the end that they can rebuild everything that was destroyed.
    ===
    “Loss of Halo Smart A.I.s will halt things pretty hard for a while, but unlike the ME races, they won’t be without their FTL, nor will they have killed three major components of their armies. ”
    -
    Neither would ME. They still have FTL. They just don’t have ship teleporting speeds.
    ===
    Who plots the course for Halo when going through slipspace?

  7. Watchdog Lowk October 23, 2013 at 11:48 pm -      #5907

    “It is mentioned in the end that they can rebuild everything that was destroyed.”
    -
    They being the people who survived, not the reapers.

  8. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 23, 2013 at 11:51 pm -      #5908

    @Lowk
    Yeah, I’m not saying they can’t rebuild or they won’t have some FTL, but without the Relays, what they have is too slow to make an effective resistance with.
    -
    And the calculations for Slipspace jumps are able to be done by humans. Preston Cole for example was able to do a comparatively accurate calculation without an A.I. to help. It’s just a lot less convenient when people have to do it.

  9. Virgil October 23, 2013 at 11:52 pm -      #5909

    @Watchdog Lowk
    -
    Who plots the course for Halo when going through slipspace?
    -
    NAV Computers and AI are usually in charge of that. For some humans it is possible to for them to be able to calculate it but they’re genius level and usually need a good amount of time to do it.

  10. ZomBlur October 23, 2013 at 11:58 pm -      #5910

    “SHIT. SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT
    SHIT SHIT SHIT!
    HOLY SHIT.
    I just put the pieces together. I know exactly who Abbazorkzog is. He’s DC Ambrose from Spacebattles! It explains SOOOOOOOO much! Plus, DC’s sig literally has the name Abbazorkzog in it.
    This guy has been banned by Spacebattles before for this type of behavior (Multiple times?), and is also a notorious Mass Effect wanker (Not a just a super fan, or someone who can inflate numbers while still backing their stuff up, but straight wanker)”
    -
    -
    I am guessing we’re supposed to care about this? Mud slinging isn’t debating, someone having a reputation on another site or even this one, has no bearing on a debate. Bringing it up is pointless, and really, quite low. Besides, on Space battles, everyone is a wanker, Mith would consider Leo a wanker, and vice versa, the site is highly clique-ish. Nonetheless poisoning the well has no place here. No matter how you try to disguise it.

  11. Watchdog Lowk October 23, 2013 at 11:59 pm -      #5911

    “It’s just a lot less convenient when people have to do it.”
    “NAV Computers and AI are usually in charge of that. For some humans it is possible to for them to be able to calculate it but they’re genius level and usually need a good amount of time to do it.”
    -
    Lo and behold Halo, for in ME’s final death throes, we shall mildly inconvenience you, MUHAHAHAHAHA!

  12. Virgil October 24, 2013 at 12:02 am -      #5912

    Lo and behold Halo, for in ME’s final death throes, we shall mildly inconvenience you, MUHAHAHAHAHA!
    -
    But unless you use an EMP and shut down everyone’s electricity (Which would kill them anyway) they can just use the NAV computers…

  13. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 24, 2013 at 12:06 am -      #5913

    Mind you, Preston was considered to be genius level in intellect, but from what I remember reading in his main short story, he wasn’t a very good learner, and didn’t utilize his intelligence all that well until later in life. The calculation he did on his own was back when he first joined the Navy and was given the task by a lazy Ensign or something. He was several million kilometers or so off I think, but not bad for not being a professional at it.
    -
    So I don’t think losing the A.I.’s will seriously impede their ability to FTL around.

  14. o 055 o October 24, 2013 at 12:13 am -      #5914

    To Quote Myself AND The Codex – “The consequences of destroying a mass relay are immense: as a huge mass effect engine manipulating massive quantities of energy, a relay could produce an explosion of supernova proportions. This proves true when during Arrival, a large asteroid is purposely steered into the Bahak system’s Alpha Relay. The resulting impact tears apart the relay, causing an explosion which annihilates the Bahak system and kills its more than 300,000 inhabitants.”
    READ THE THREAD.
    Or go back to the SpaceBattles hole you crawled out of, Halo wanker troll.
    -
    The Butthurt is strong in this one, I guess that’s what happens when you are banned for waving around your wanktastic ME calcs where the Reapers use the relays as weapons to fight the Covenant because otherwise they get instantly gibbed. Did I mention that you never proved your claims? you simply stated that they somehow will, despite the relays never being used as weapons by them and that they will simply fire at anything that moves. But then again you’re the same guy that mentioned that to make things fair the Covenant would need to be dropped into the ME galaxy and be forced to evolve with Reaper made technology because otherwise it is unfair and the scenario sucks…because the Reapers lose.
    -
    Also, you seem to lack reading comprehension (or a lack of common sense for that matter), because throwing an asteroid at a mass relay is not weaponizing it, that’s destroying it which would cripple the ability of the Mass Effect forces to properly defend themselves, but then again this is not Mass Efffect but DC Ambrose’s Wank Effect so it doesn’t really matter.
    -
    Regardless of that, all the Mantle’s Approach has to do is fly in a straight-line like a bowling ball towards pins since there’s nothing in Mass Effect remotely close to its size, at all. Even the Citadel is dwarfed by the 142 kilometers long, 136 kilometers wide and 371 kilometers tall beast of a ship that will be literally a space tsunami against the minuscule Mass Effect ships that can barely reach a kilometer in length, poor poor little things.

  15. Commander Farsight October 24, 2013 at 12:17 am -      #5915

    I’m going to agree with GB 5905. Halo wins the greatest fight in FP history. (If by best one means post count) So let it die gracefully.

  16. Commander Farsight October 24, 2013 at 12:22 am -      #5916

    That should be GB @ 5905.
    -
    Sorry for the double post.

  17. the_man_with The_Answers October 24, 2013 at 12:26 am -      #5917

    “My sources are the games Mass Effect 2 and 3, notably the end cutscene of Arrival DLC and the Destroy Ending. I’m not going to look up the videos for you.”
    -
    I thought you were referring to the Geth. Now I see that by saying “machines” you meant the Relays. It makes more sense now. Still not what is shown in the destroy ending.
    -
    As far as your actual identity goes, you aren’t even respected by Mass Effect supporters on Spacebattles. BTW, other respectable debaters here are also on Spacebattles (Whatthecell and Galorian to name two). Spacebattles is no where near as bad as you make it out to be, you just get the worse end of the stick because you provoke it. Personally, I don’t think you deserved some of the treatment you received, but I can’t say I put all the blame on the populace of SBs.
    -
    The funniest thing is now I can look back at SB threads and see the exact same claims, the exact same ideas, and the exact same debate techniques just being replayed here.
    -
    “Given TMWtA’s epiphany just now, I sometimes feel like I’m missing something for not cheating on BankGambling with other debate sites.”
    -
    It’s not cheating if you just take a peek…
    forums.spacebattles.com/threads/reapers-vs-gravemind.243115/page-5
    #122 and #125 especially
    -
    forums.spacebattles.com/threads/reapers-vs-covenant.270593/page-4
    -
    Second and third on the page fairly accurately sum SB’s opinion of him. Rather harsh in my opinion, but a reputation like that does not just come from no where.
    -
    I will admit though, you are much more… rational than you were before you got banned. I’m an advocate of that type of behavior, so props to you. But don’t expect me to not call you out on the stuff you tried to peddle to SBs. It didn’t work there, and it sure isn’t going to work here.

  18. the_man_with The_Answers October 24, 2013 at 12:42 am -      #5918

    “I am guessing we’re supposed to care about this? Mud slinging isn’t debating, someone having a reputation on another site or even this one, has no bearing on a debate.”
    -
    The “shits” weren’t to express my concern, that was my brain piecing things together. I would have done the same no matter what I pieced together, bad, good, or in between. Funny that you never point this out when people have “slung mud” at me. I remember being compared to Fisherking a few times in effort to undermine my argument. I wouldn’t even compare DC to fisherking, that is just cruel. He’s also, IMO, better than Elder Bias, DAWinz, Kinkade, and so on. Sort
    -
    “Besides, on Space battles, everyone is a wanker, Mith would consider Leo a wanker, and vice versa, the site is highly clique-ish.”
    -
    Except I don’t consider people wankers that easily. I can only think of a few people I would classify under that description. But as far as cliques go, that is definitely something I have noticed. Hell, MJ12 (Who’s in my top 5 favorites on that site) practically has a cult following.
    -

  19. erickyboo October 24, 2013 at 12:49 am -      #5919

    Smart AIs could be remade. Covenant don’t have much for smart AIs. Also how does it even work again? How does it discriminate between what it constitutes as an AI?

  20. Zazax October 24, 2013 at 1:26 am -      #5920

    “It’s not cheating if you just take a peek…”
    How scandalous!
    -
    “Smart AIs could be remade. Covenant don’t have much for smart AIs. Also how does it even work again?”
    Unless it’s been retconned or upgraded while I wasn’t looking, they need to copy a living person’s brain, which fries it in the process. Unless that person is Halsey, because reasons.

  21. the_man_with The_Answers October 24, 2013 at 1:30 am -      #5921

    They use recently deceased brains. It is illegal to use a living brain, but Halsey cloned her brain, and while it was still “living” she made Cortana with it. Cortana is literally her brain child.

  22. ZomBlur October 24, 2013 at 1:32 am -      #5922

    “The “shits” weren’t to express my concern, that was my brain piecing things together. I would have done the same no matter what I pieced together, bad, good, or in between. Funny that you never point this out when people have “slung mud” at me. I remember being compared to Fisherking a few times in effort to undermine my argument. I wouldn’t even compare DC to fisherking, that is just cruel. He’s also, IMO, better than Elder Bias, DAWinz, Kinkade, and so on. Sort”
    -
    I don’t care about insults, but poisoning the well always sticks with people even if just subconsciously unless someone stomps it out. People will always be quicker to dismiss the arguments of someone if they have been labeled as a fanboy or wanker. However, even if they are, it should not invalidate their arguments. Also, Fisherking was still in raw debate skill, above average, his attitude needed work though.

  23. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 24, 2013 at 1:40 am -      #5923

    That creepy moment when you realize Captain Keyes and Halsey boned, and they had a child.

  24. Zazax October 24, 2013 at 1:43 am -      #5924

    “They use recently deceased brains. It is illegal to use a living brain, but Halsey cloned her brain, and while it was still “living” she made Cortana with it.”
    Right. Been a while.

  25. IamTaco October 24, 2013 at 5:52 am -      #5925

    The funny thing is that the mantle’s approach would survive a supernova with ease.

  26. BC October 24, 2013 at 6:29 am -      #5926

    “ Yet current incarnation shows everything is already repaired for them. When I meant ‘current’ incarnation I mean what happened just before the book closes. Just before ME ends we see everyone kissing, hugging and STARTING to rebuild society. There was no glimpses into the future or anything. So the book ends just after the war. That is the current incarnation. “
    -
    We also see what appears to be a city completely rebuilt into an entirely new high tech design which implies that they are further along than “just starting to rebuild” at that point. There is nothing that gives a concrete idea of the amount of time the epilog spans or the speed of the rebuilding process, just the fact that they do in fact rebuild and improve their technology considerably in the process. Halo may indeed have a head start on ME in rebuilding but it could just as easily be the other way around for all the hard information we have on it.
    -
    -
    -
    “ What the hell are you even talking about? The Relay explosions from the Crucible did not produce super-nova-like energies. AS evident by Earth still being livable a place. “
    -
    The revised endings do not have the relays explode, their spinning rings break up and they lose the field that the rings once held but the main body of the relays remain intact. The tremendous energy shown in the incident with the relay destroyed to delay the Reapers earlier in the war is instead used to power the green (or in other endings the other color) pulse that does the work of transformation or destruction over vast stretches of space. In theory this even has the added benefit of not having to rebuild the ones used in the effect from scratch which would help speed recovery so it is unlikely to take “months or years”. On top of that it looks from the cutscenes to be a case of (besides Charon which is used to inject the pulse into the network) the only relays involved in the crucible pulse were the primaries which would make long range travel a bit slower from having to use the shorter ranged secondaries and make more jumps to get anywhere until the primaries are repaired.
    -
    -

    “ In an universe where the biggest threat deals 400 kilotons, this is just a swarm of flies hitting uselessly against the windshield. “

    Unfortunately for Halo that universe also uses resonant dark energy weapons that would in all probability pass right through their shields and armor and do considerable damage inside the ship since they do not have the proper defenses against it. The fact that the frigates and fighters have to get close to launch them keeps it from being a pushbutton kill but it would still be devastating if enough are launched. A possible caveat could be if the ship is huge enough the dark energy storms might fade out before they penetrate all the way to the center of the ship.
    -
    -
    -
    “ If firing the Crucible damages the Relays and kills all Synthetics then who can repair them after? I mean aren’t Reapers the only ones that know how to repair those things? And if Reapers get destroyed with it then there would be no way for the ME contestents to repair the relays. So they will be stuck in a galactic snail’s pace FOREVER *gasp* “
    -
    It only destroys synthetics if you choose the red ending. The best one for a rapid recovery and even a nice big power increase is the green “systhesis” ending which leaves everyone intact and results in the Reapers releasing all the knowledge they have accumulated since the first cycle to their allies where it can be creatively used.
    -
    -
    “ Regardless of that, all the Mantle’s Approach has to do is fly in a straight-line like a bowling ball towards pins since there’s nothing in Mass Effect remotely close to its size, at all. Even the Citadel is dwarfed by the 142 kilometers long, 136 kilometers wide and 371 kilometers tall beast of a ship that will be literally a space tsunami against the minuscule Mass Effect ships that can barely reach a kilometer in length, poor poor little things. “
    -
    That would be like a supertanker trying to ram PT boats. Good luck trying to catch one.
    -
    -
    “ Smart AIs could be remade. Covenant don’t have much for smart AIs. Also how does it even work again? How does it discriminate between what it constitutes as an AI? “
    -
    No one knows how it could possibly work including the writers themselves. It was just a lazy deus ex machina thing to get out of the corner they wrote themselves into. It is like the fantasy stuff that works on subjective metadata that would be impossible to actually sort on in a real world that only work on “the truly just” “all good men” “vile villians” or other nebulous concepts like that.

  27. OberHeresy October 24, 2013 at 8:39 am -      #5927

    @BC
    Except, what we see of the ending is totally unquantifiable, and we have no idea how they rebuilt, if they remade the relays, if they really have any different tech, etc. We don’t know, so its a lot simpler to not pick one of the endings, since none of them so far as I know is considered the official ending, and just use ME right before the final battle.

  28. Kytheros October 24, 2013 at 9:04 am -      #5928

    Alright, take Mass Effect immediately prior to the Final Battle.
    Step One will be: Activate Crucible on Synthesis Setting, maybe consult w/ Reapers on on to do so most safely before activating Synthesis.

  29. OberHeresy October 24, 2013 at 9:15 am -      #5929

    Well, regardless, Halo wins. We’ve established that for several pages now. With the Forerunner tech they have, they can use it to make far more things in a much shorter time-frame than ME can, as well as research new things. Heck, they could probably put the entire UNSC population into their Dyson sphere, and just laugh as ME tries to get through it.
    -
    Plus, we have the Onyx sentinels, plus better FTL if they simply take control of a few key relays, and destroy them.

  30. IamTaco October 24, 2013 at 9:17 am -      #5930

    Step 1: Find the mass relays
    Step 2: Destroy the mass relays
    Step 3: Win

  31. the_man_with The_Answers October 24, 2013 at 9:18 am -      #5931

    “The funny thing is that the mantle’s approach would survive a supernova with ease.”
    -
    Maybe, maybe not. Hard claim to support seeing as it doesn’t have anything to back it up.
    -
    “Unfortunately for Halo that universe also uses resonant dark energy weapons that would in all probability pass right through their shields and armor and do considerable damage ”
    -
    Like?
    -
    “That would be like a supertanker trying to ram PT boats. Good luck trying to catch one.”
    -
    Except it is orders of magnitudes faster FTL, and being Forerunner, I would imagine it also has faster STL speeds as well. Of course, Sovereign did much the same thing whe he attacked the Citadel, accept he isn’t bigger than the Citadel itself.
    -
    “Alright, take Mass Effect immediately prior to the Final Battle.
    Step One will be: Activate Crucible on Synthesis Setting, maybe consult w/ Reapers on on to do so most safely before activating Synthesis.”
    -
    So, despite not knowing what the Crucible does at all, and now being at peace with the Reapers anyways, they are going to set off the highly experimental super-weapon that they don’t know what consequences will occur if they do? And the consequence that they do think will happen is “kill all our new Reaper friends?”
    -
    I don’t see that happening.

  32. geomax October 24, 2013 at 9:38 am -      #5932

    “The funny thing is that the mantle’s approach would survive a supernova with ease.”
    It couldn’t tank it, but since it has FTL sensors it could see it coming and jump into slipspace before it hit.

  33. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 11:27 am -      #5933

    “The revised endings do not have the relays explode, their spinning rings break up and they lose the field that the rings once held but the main body of the relays remain intact. The tremendous energy shown in the incident with the relay destroyed to delay the Reapers earlier in the war is instead used to power the green (or in other endings the other color) pulse that does the work of transformation or destruction over vast stretches of space. In theory this even has the added benefit of not having to rebuild the ones used in the effect from scratch which would help speed recovery so it is unlikely to take “months or years”. On top of that it looks from the cutscenes to be a case of (besides Charon which is used to inject the pulse into the network) the only relays involved in the crucible pulse were the primaries which would make long range travel a bit slower from having to use the shorter ranged secondaries and make more jumps to get anywhere until the primaries are repaired.” Pretty much this.
    “It couldn’t tank it, but since it has FTL sensors it could see it coming and jump into slipspace before it hit.” Rewatch ME3 ending, it happens in seconds.
    Also TMWTA nobody on this site cares about the way you -rank- people on Spacebattles, except o 055 o whose sole purpose of even being here is to incite me really, which he has failed to do. But yeah everyone else except Taco and Mack has presented a fairly sound and unbiased argument that I can respect despite the fact I may disagree with it.

  34. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 11:35 am -      #5934

    PS – The only people getting angry at me it seems are the people who either 1) are from Spacebattles, or 2) do not realize I am not even debating ME vs Halo right now, and that this whole fiasco was exacerbated due to TMWTA and o 005 o jumping in to attempt to start a circlejerk in an attempt to ‘discredit’ my solid argument against the MA being able to solo the ENTIRE ME universe by its lonesome. The majority of this thread has come to the conclusion that if Halo does win in terms of who is more powerful, it doesn’t mean ME *can’t* win, which I am sure the anti-ME Spacebattles representatives will try to refute while they are here.

  35. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 11:39 am -      #5935

    If we concentrated all of the ME universe’s output, including the Relays exploding all at once, every explosion going off at once, there is nothing in Halo that can survive that by itself. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete and utter fool, and is hopelessly blinded by their zealously biased ignorance.

  36. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 11:42 am -      #5936

    “I don’t care about insults, but poisoning the well always sticks with people even if just subconsciously unless someone stomps it out. People will always be quicker to dismiss the arguments of someone if they have been labeled as a fanboy or wanker. However, even if they are, it should not invalidate their arguments.”
    And I will have you know that SB is a website known for their Halo-wanking to further credit your argument.

  37. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 11:47 am -      #5937

    BTW anyone who thinks 055 is here for any other reason other than to try to incite me to help save SB’s reputation on this site from my wrath, just go back and have a look at his posts on this thread, and ask yourself, “Is he even REPLYING to anyone else other than Abbazorkzog?” The answer is no.

  38. SgCombine October 24, 2013 at 11:59 am -      #5938

    “If we concentrated all of the ME universe’s output, including the Relays exploding all at once, every explosion going off at once, there is nothing in Halo that can survive that by itself.”
    -
    How would they even pull off exploding their own universe?

  39. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 12:04 pm -      #5939

    “How would they even pull off exploding their own universe?”
    They wouldn’t, but if they could, i.e. the ME Universe *itself* literally attacked the MA there would not be a single molecule left of it.

  40. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 12:06 pm -      #5940

    @Facts: I’ve ceded participation in this debate temporarily until the SB infestation has been quarantined / dissipates.

  41. Abbazorkzog October 24, 2013 at 12:06 pm -      #5941

    PS: Refer to BankGamblingtopia if you are there.

  42. Aelfinn October 24, 2013 at 1:35 pm -      #5942

    “until the SB infestation has been quarantined / dissipates.”
    -
    I really don’t want to start anything, but why do you have to say shit like this? Yeah, there might be some people out to get you for what happened on Spacebattles (“might” being the key word here), but that doesn’t mean you need to call them an “infestation”. They’ve been around here longer than you have. They aren’t an infestation just for getting annoyed with you in more than one place.

  43. deathmetal3k October 24, 2013 at 2:15 pm -      #5943

    @Abbazorkzog I get why you’re frustrated but you’re starting to act worse than they ever did. How is calling them trolls or an infestation help anything? You’re adding fuel to the fire.

    Granted I may not agree with how they acted but their points have been more valid than your own. Also they’ve been around here longer than yourself and for the most part they hardly ever troll or wank as you’ve been saying. They may have been rude but your’e actions aren’t helping your’e side either.

  44. ZomBlur October 24, 2013 at 2:25 pm -      #5944

    Meh, this entire debate is a black spot on BankGambling IMO, there was a period when this entire ‘debate’ was just the Halo side waiting for Mass Effect arguments, and then just flooding this with unrelated shit until the argument was out of sight. You all suck.

  45. Commander Cross October 24, 2013 at 2:46 pm -      #5945

    @Major ZomB at #5944

    I thought Wheel of Time vs Sword of Truth or Rand vs Rahl was the Black Spot you meant, sir.

  46. Zazax October 24, 2013 at 3:41 pm -      #5946

    All three of them are, really. Most of the ‘Popular Posts’ matches are, to varying degrees. 40k vs Stargate’s the only one I can say isn’t, although I didn’t partake in all of them.

  47. Commander Cross October 24, 2013 at 4:23 pm -      #5947

    @Zazax at #5946

    I dunno, Facts vs Zombified City is pretty Badass.

  48. o 055 o October 24, 2013 at 4:44 pm -      #5948

    And I will have you know that SB is a website known for their Halo-wanking to further credit your argument.
    -
    It’s funny because people who wank Halo at Spacebattles are generally looked down upon. I simply state things as they are and I am not wanking in the slightest (I am perfectly capable of accepting defeat when the situation demands it), if this was something like “Spartans vs Space Marines” I’d go with the Space Marines, I mean, even a quick look at my signature will prove it.
    -
    “If the UNSC was as advanced as it “should be”, you’d be playing Metal Vanquish Gear Crysis: Ghost in the Shell; Revengeance; Drone Company Commander, not Halo.”
    -
    But obviously I’m just a wanker (which is ironic coming from you seeing how you’re suggesting “weaponized relays” and “megaton reapers”). Hope you feel better by calling me a wanker, I will just keep pointing out the obvious which is: The Mantle’s Approach can simply ram every ship/reaper/structure in Mass Effect with little to no harm at all. The only damage it would suffer would be if it rammed a Mass Relay, but even then, it’d be able to outrun the supernova-like blast if it has speed comparable to the Infinity’s (seeing how they were able to escape the blast of a supernova before Requiem was destroyed-

  49. Zazax October 24, 2013 at 5:55 pm -      #5949

    “I dunno, Facts vs Zombified City is pretty Badass.”
    That would be one of the ones I didn’t partake in, haha.

  50. Commander Cross October 24, 2013 at 7:47 pm -      #5950

    @Zazax at #5949

    What are the odds of the Zombified City one reaching the top 3 at some point?

  51. the_man_with The_Answers October 24, 2013 at 8:52 pm -      #5951

    “Pretty much this.”
    -
    That is nothing like what you were saying previously. You just flip-flopped to the extreme. You were saying, almost immediately before, that the relays exploded and caused super-nova events. This is explicitly not that.
    -
    “Also TMWTA nobody on this site cares about the way you -rank- people on Spacebattles, except o 055 o whose sole purpose of even being here is to incite me really, which he has failed to do. But yeah everyone else except Taco and Mack has presented a fairly sound and unbiased argument that I can respect despite the fact I may disagree with it.”
    -
    What with my argument do you disagree with? The fact that Halo wins? The fact that the Reapers are not, in fact, the second coming. The fact that the crucible is an extremely harmful weapon to Mass Effect that will do virtually nothing to Halo that it won’t do worse to Mass Effect?
    -
    “discredit’ my solid argument against the MA being able to solo the ENTIRE ME universe by its lonesome.”
    -
    Your “winning” strategy is practically to super nova the galaxy using the worst Destroy ending. This would kill billions upon billions of Mass Effect organic and synthetic lifeforms, all to take out ONE ship. Yeah, I wouldn’t call that a victory. Beyond that, Mass Effect has nothing capable of stopping the Didact’s ship. And even the crucible tactic might not work, seeing as all the Didact would have to do is jump into slipspace and he’d be perfectly fine.
    -
    “If we concentrated all of the ME universe’s output, including the Relays exploding all at once, every explosion going off at once, there is nothing in Halo that can survive that by itself. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete and utter fool, and is hopelessly blinded by their zealously biased ignorance.”-
    -
    Neither would anything in Mass Effect, hurr durr. This is about as logical as the troll argument “Halo will fire the ringzzzz!” argument, except it is actually LESS practical, LESS achievable, and tactics like that have NEVER been used.
    -
    “And I will have you know that SB is a website known for their Halo-wanking to further credit your argument”
    -
    I’ve barely seen any Halo wanking there lately. It is almost the reverse right now. Elite shields are at something like less than 5kJ, everyone and everything has an IQ below 70, SPARTANs are just people on steroids, and so on. If you want to play that game, you, personally, are known by Halo and Mass Effect fans alike as a “wanker.” It speaks volumes when BOTH sides see you the same way. It’s like the ultimate form of the pot calling the kettle black.
    -
    “BTW anyone who thinks 055 is here for any other reason other than to try to incite me to help save SB’s reputation on this site from my wrath”
    -
    Save it from your wrath? Please. You’re mad because you got banned. There are easily dozens of people on that site (Most of which DON’T support Halo) who are excellent debaters. Does it have its problems? Yes. But you make it out to be so much worse than it actually is. I’ve been on BankGambling for 5 or so years. I’ve only been on Spacebattles for like 2, so you can’t even say I’m just some SB super-fan.
    -
    “They wouldn’t, but if they could, i.e. the ME Universe *itself* literally attacked the MA there would not be a single molecule left of it.”
    -
    So the one way they can kill the MA, Mass Effect wouldn’t actually do…….
    -
    ” I’ve ceded participation in this debate temporarily until the SB infestation has been quarantined / dissipates.”
    -
    Infestation? I’ve been a BankGamblingr long before you, and long before I joined SBs. You need to get off your high horse and let that hate boner go limp.
    -
    “They aren’t an infestation just for getting annoyed with you in more than one place.”
    -
    I’ve never personally argued with him on SB, I’ve seen the interactions before. He’s doing the same stuff he was doing there, here.
    -
    “Meh, this entire debate is a black spot on BankGambling IMO, there was a period when this entire ‘debate’ was just the Halo side waiting for Mass Effect arguments, and then just flooding this with unrelated shit until the argument was out of sight. You all suck.”
    -
    What a positive outlook (Kidding, kidding, kidding!). Want to actually debate? I’m game.
    -

  52. ZomBlur October 24, 2013 at 10:12 pm -      #5952

    “What a positive outlook (Kidding, kidding, kidding!). Want to actually debate? I’m game.”
    -
    I both have no interest, and refuse to help a fandom that allowed the aforementioned ‘debate’ tactic to be used against them. Nothing I could say will convince anyone, everyone on this debate is far too set in their beliefs.
    -
    I will say that thinking the Mantle’s Approach could solo is ludicrous. Didn’t it get over penetrated once it’s shields were deactivated?

  53. o 055 o October 24, 2013 at 10:28 pm -      #5953

    I will say that thinking the Mantle’s Approach could solo is ludicrous. Didn’t it get over penetrated once it’s shields were deactivated?
    -
    By a weapon that apparently has much more power than a SMAC and the hole closed itself in a matter of moments. If it wasn’t for the 30 megaton nuke that was detonated right near the slipspace opening that was inside the ship the UNSC would have been unable to actually do any lasting damage to the ship.

  54. the_man_with The_Answers October 24, 2013 at 10:37 pm -      #5954

    “I will say that thinking the Mantle’s Approach could solo is ludicrous. Didn’t it get over penetrated once it’s shields were deactivated?”
    -
    Over-penetrated? Not really. A deep hole, relatively small compared to the ship as a whole, was formed when the 6km long (Bigger than any ship in ME already) Infinity fired one of it’s primary weapons (Not sure if it is a MAC or energy weapon). The primary MACs on the Infinity are “calculated” at about 50 gigatons (I don’t personally support those, seems more like 50 megatons). The MA proceeded to fully repair the hole in less than a minute. The Infinity also proceeded to GTFO of the area because it the AA guns that were threatening it before were probably coming back online. 50 gigatons only created a minor, almost immediately repaired “wound.” This is more than Mass Effect could ever hope to achieve. Even at my preferred 50MTs, it would take 50 Reapers (with generous calcs) all firing at one unshielded spot to create a barely noticeable amount of damage.
    -
    Not to mention the MA was casually dealing with the entire Earth defense fleet and orbital defense grid consisting of hundreds of ODPs mounting SMACs, with its tertiary weapons (aka, AA guns and PD). Now do you see why the MA would solo? It would be like if, in ME1, Sovereign was over 150x larger, completely invulnerable to anything Mass Effect ships could throw at him, could swat dreadnaughts down with his tertiary weapons, and could ram the entire Citadel to pieces in a similar fashion to the cruiser he rammed originally.
    -
    Hell, the 30MT nuke you are carrying in Halo 4 wasn’t noted at being capable of doing anything to the Didact while he was in the inner-shield, hence why you have to deactivate it.
    -
    Mass Effect would have to field every single capitol ship at once against the MA to even have a shot at beating it, and that is just logistically impossible and foolish.

  55. Abbazorkzog October 25, 2013 at 1:49 am -      #5955

    You’ve forced my hand TMWTA. You actually went through the redundancy of dissecting a post that wasn’t even directed at you. You are obviously at this point just looking for an argument, trying to piss someone off because you’re a TROLL. Here we go.

    “That is nothing like what you were saying previously. You just flip-flopped to the extreme. You were saying, almost immediately before, that the relays exploded and caused super-nova events. This is explicitly not that.”

    So, you want to do this, you want to keep going back and forth in this ‘NO U’ circle? You literally have no life. Okay, have your little ‘victory’, I hope you feel big and strong you fucking inbred, you won an internet debate keyboard warrior, how’s
    What with my argument do you disagree with? The fact that Halo wins? The fact that the Reapers are not, in fact, the second coming. The fact that the crucible is an extremely harmful weapon to Mass Effect that will do virtually nothing to Halo that it won’t do worse to Mass Effect?

    “What with my argument do you disagree with? The fact that Halo wins? The fact that the Reapers are not, in fact, the second coming. The fact that the crucible is an extremely harmful weapon to Mass Effect that will do virtually nothing to Halo that it won’t do worse to Mass Effect?”

    I disagree with you that the MA can solo the ME universe.

    “Your “winning” strategy is practically to super nova the galaxy using the worst Destroy ending. This would kill billions upon billions of Mass Effect organic and synthetic lifeforms, all to take out ONE ship. Yeah, I wouldn’t call that a victory. Beyond that, Mass Effect has nothing capable of stopping the Didact’s ship. And even the crucible tactic might not work, seeing as all the Didact would have to do is jump into slipspace and he’d be perfectly fine.”

    There have been plenty of arguments presented against this, yet you continue to bullrush past them and go straight for my comments.

    “Neither would anything in Mass Effect, hurr durr. This is about as logical as the troll argument “Halo will fire the ringzzzz!” argument, except it is actually LESS practical, LESS achievable, and tactics like that have NEVER been used.”

    You. Are. Missing. The. Point. NO U? I don’t know what you want me to even do here anymore.

    “I’ve barely seen any Halo wanking there lately. It is almost the reverse right now. Elite shields are at something like less than 5kJ, everyone and everything has an IQ below 70, SPARTANs are just people on steroids, and so on. If you want to play that game, you, personally, are known by Halo and Mass Effect fans alike as a “wanker.” It speaks volumes when BOTH sides see you the same way. It’s like the ultimate form of the pot calling the kettle black.”

    There was a whole thread of a dozen+ bafoons stating The Didact could beat Harbinger on foot. Are you fucking retarded?

    “Save it from your wrath? Please. You’re mad because you got banned. There are easily dozens of people on that site (Most of which DON’T support Halo) who are excellent debaters. Does it have its problems? Yes. But you make it out to be so much worse than it actually is. I’ve been on BankGambling for 5 or so years. I’ve only been on Spacebattles for like 2, so you can’t even say I’m just some SB super-fan.”

    You’re not even on topic anymore, you’re literally targeting a passing comment made out of emotion and taking it to the heart. Stop defending SB.

    “So the one way they can kill the MA, Mass Effect wouldn’t actually do…….”

    This was in response to the ludicrous claim that the MA could solo the Mass Effect Universe, not Mass Effect.

    “Infestation? I’ve been a BankGamblingr long before you, and long before I joined SBs. You need to get off your high horse and let that hate boner go limp.”

    I’m not the one who needs to get off his high horse. *Points to your username.*

    “I will say that thinking the Mantle’s Approach could solo is ludicrous. Didn’t it get over penetrated once it’s shields were deactivated?”

    “The Mantle’s Approach can simply ram every ship/reaper/structure in Mass Effect with little to no harm at all. The only damage it would suffer would be if it rammed a Mass Relay, but even then, it’d be able to outrun the supernova-like blast if it has speed comparable to the Infinity’s (seeing how they were able to escape the blast of a supernova before Requiem was destroyed-”

    Wow, you’ve completely 180 degree flip-flopped. I have this saved in MS word to use against you next time you try to claim you are not a Halo wanking lying two-faced bastard troll of a human being. THIS is why I never trust or respect people on the internet until they EARN it. Nobody on SB, Waypoint, or any other website has made so much as an INKLING of an effort to do so.

  56. Abbazorkzog October 25, 2013 at 1:52 am -      #5956

    Would you just STFU already? I’ve already agreed Halo wins, be happy with that victory and move on, you are just pounding a perfectly good debate into the dirt, puffing out your chest, and trying to prove and make illusory the delusion that Halo is this so much far superior god-being to Mass Effect by belittling it and making it out to be less than it really is. YOU are the ones with the hate-boner here. You want to know how I know…BECAUSE YOU DON’T EVEN CARE I’VE ALREADY ADMITTED HALO WINS MOST OF THE FUCKING TIME AND YOU WON’T EVEN FUCKING SHUT THE FUCKING FUCK UP. Agree to fucking disa-fucking-gree and LEAVE ME THE FUCKING FUCK ALONE GODFUCKINGDAMMIT.

  57. Abbazorkzog October 25, 2013 at 1:52 am -      #5957

    I will not stop replying to you, so you will have to give up eventually.

  58. the_man_with The_Answers October 25, 2013 at 3:16 am -      #5958

    “So, you want to do this, you want to keep going back and forth in this ‘NO U’ circle? You literally have no life. Okay, have your little ‘victory’, I hope you feel big and strong you fucking inbred, you won an internet debate keyboard warrior, how’s”
    -
    See what I’m talking about? I pointed out that he flip-flopped and this is the response.
    -
    “I disagree with you that the MA can solo the ME universe.”
    -
    Good, progress.
    -
    “There have been plenty of arguments presented against this, yet you continue to bullrush past them and go straight for my comments.”
    -
    You and I are literally the only ones really debating this, except for Zomb, who popped in momentarily with a false-fact that I, and another, immediately addressed. Please point out the “plenty of arguments” that were apparently not from you.
    -
    “You. Are. Missing. The. Point. NO U? I don’t know what you want me to even do here anymore.”
    -
    Concede. Your argument isn’t practical, isn’t logical, and it isn’t supported by the source material.
    -
    “There was a whole thread of a dozen+ bafoons stating The Didact could beat Harbinger on foot. Are you fucking retarded?”
    -
    Are you talking about This thread?
    forums.spacebattles.com/threads/didact-vs-harbinger.241461/
    Not only is that a month shy of being a year old, the scenario is also the 300+km tall MA vs Harbinger and some other Reapers, and the second scenario is, as you said, the Didact vs Harbinger. Except only 28 people even commented (One of which was you, and another of which was the mod that banned you), with no such implication of the Didact winning on the ground (Except for the joking around about hand-waving). This actually goes a lot to explain why you hate SB so much. It also explains why you are being so touchy right now, because the MA beating the Reapers (and the rest of ME for that matter) must remind you of this thread. Chill dude, put the past behind you and move on.
    -
    “This was in response to the ludicrous claim that the MA could solo the Mass Effect Universe, not Mass Effect”
    -
    Wat.
    I need to ask that again.
    Wat.
    -
    “I’m not the one who needs to get off his high horse. *Points to your username.*”
    -
    I’ve had it for years, and the spelling, under-scores and specific capitalization is all actually quite on purpose. The username has a name and origin completely unrelated to the meaning of the words on their own. I’ve been waiting for someone to crack it, but it isn’t exactly an obvious puzzle in the first place.
    -
    “and trying to prove and make illusory the delusion that Halo is this so much far superior god-being to Mass Effect by belittling it and making it out to be less than it really is”
    -
    If you forgive me for a moment, I’m going to go back and search through the thread for the post (or series of posts, can’t quite remember) where I said how evenly matched this battle was, how I wouldn’t mind either side winning because they are my top 2 favorite franchises, and that I actually think that the war would end in an effective draw because neither side has the capacity to effectively defeat the other. I’ll be right back.

  59. Watchdog Lowk October 25, 2013 at 3:29 am -      #5959

    “I will not stop replying to you, so you will have to give up eventually.”
    -
    Unless he won’t stop responding to your reply Then it becomes a boring circle of rebuttals.

  60. the_man_with The_Answers October 25, 2013 at 3:43 am -      #5960

    Page 32 post #3143
    -
    “Personally, I don’t want ME to be nerfed. As it stands right now, ME and Halo are fairly equal. If ME takes a hit now, then it would put Halo firmly in the lead, and when the inevitable huge boost from Halo 4 comes (Based on the what is being said about Halo 4, you are going to be fighting something on a much greater scale and threat level then ever seen before), Halo would be legions ahead. If ME gets a boost now, when Halo 4 comes the balance may return. I prefer nice and even matches over heavily lopsided ones.”
    -
    Same page, Post #3180
    “For me right now, I’m torn. I love Halo and Mass Effect so much that either side winning is still like a defeat..
    -
    Quick! email Bioware and 343i and tell them that they need to keep halo and ME even AT ALL COSTS!”
    -
    There’s still another one out there about a war of attrition for both sides that is likely to go no where, but you get the gist.

  61. Namer October 25, 2013 at 8:57 am -      #5961

    I just want to say, those saying the Mantle’s Approach could solo ME, are thinking in terms of Halo, where you fire biggatons at something until it dies. ME uses shit like torpedoes that warp and tear matter apart (probably ignoring durability) and weapons that mess with shit at an atomic level. Its not as one-sided as you think…
    …it’ll still probably solo, but not without taking significant damage.
    .
    Quick! email Bioware and 343i and tell them that they need to keep halo and ME even AT ALL COSTS!”
    .
    I lol’d. But hey, they’re the developers of the two greatest contemporary science-fiction game franchises. They probably give each other calls once in a while.

  62. IamTaco October 25, 2013 at 9:26 am -      #5962

    Disruptor torpedoes don’t ignore durability. Strong shit still will still take less damage from it than weaker shit.
    -
    And hardlight is strong shit indeed.
    -
    And that’s amusing that those disruptor torpedoes can get close to the mantle’s approach without being shot down. Or that they would have a large enough AOE to affect the hull after they get stopped by the shield. And even if they can affect a good portion of the hull, no one knows if they can do anything, most of the hull and the ship itself being made of hardlight after all. And even if it does loads of damage to the ship, the mantle’s approach could just heal any damage done to it’s outer hull.

  63. Namer October 25, 2013 at 11:14 am -      #5963

    …which is why I said it’ll still solo…

  64. o 055 o October 25, 2013 at 12:25 pm -      #5964

    Wow, you’ve completely 180 degree flip-flopped. I have this saved in MS word to use against you next time you try to claim you are not a Halo wanking lying two-faced bastard troll of a human being. THIS is why I never trust or respect people on the internet until they EARN it. Nobody on SB, Waypoint, or any other website has made so much as an INKLING of an effort to do so.
    -
    Would you just STFU already? I’ve already agreed Halo wins, be happy with that victory and move on, you are just pounding a perfectly good debate into the dirt, puffing out your chest, and trying to prove and make illusory the delusion that Halo is this so much far superior god-being to Mass Effect by belittling it and making it out to be less than it really is. YOU are the ones with the hate-boner here. You want to know how I know…BECAUSE YOU DON’T EVEN CARE I’VE ALREADY ADMITTED HALO WINS MOST OF THE FUCKING TIME AND YOU WON’T EVEN FUCKING SHUT THE FUCKING FUCK UP. Agree to fucking disa-fucking-gree and LEAVE ME THE FUCKING FUCK ALONE GODFUCKINGDAMMIT.
    -
    Seems like someone is angry, relax and kill that hate boner of yours. This is the internet, if you get so worked up over such a trivial thing as a debate about two fictional universes then you should probably not be hanging around here just yet. Also, saying that the Mantle’s Approach would only be damaged by ramming into a mass relay is not wanking at all. I admit that if it stayed there and was hit with the ensuing blast then it would be damaged, hell, it most likely than not be destroyed. But like Halo 4 (and Mass Effect 3) taught me, you can simply outrun such blasts if you have a fast enough ship.
    -
    Now, the reason I say the Reapers wouldn’t be an inconvenience is this: Assuming there’s 2000 Sovereign-Class Reapers in this scenario, and that they all fired at once, we would be left with a damage output of 908 megatons per shot (that’s by going with the 454 kiloton maximum figure since the codex states it’s between 132 and 454 kilotons per shot, otherwise we’re left with 264 megatons). If we add the 123 dreadnoughts that are in service (39 turian, 39 geth, 20 asari, 16 salarian, 9 human and 1 volus) then we have another output of 4.67 megatons, so all 2123 of them firing at once would do a combined damage of 912.67 megatons.
    -
    Assuming that cruisers do half the damage (19 kilotons per shot, although I doubt it, otherwise dreadnoughts would not be made) and that every species has, say… 100 of them. We have 500 cruisers doing 9.5 megatons worth of damage (see why I think this isn’t likely? they shouldn’t be able to deal that much damage when compared to the dreadnoughts), so that’s 922 megatons. If every frigate deals half the damage of a cruiser and we have hypotetically… 10,000. Then we have 95 megatons more for a total damage output of… 1.017 gigatons every 2 seconds.
    -
    A single SMAC gun deals 51.6 Gigatons per shot, every 5 seconds and if we go by the 300 ODP figure then this is a total output of 15.480 teratons every 5 seconds if they all fire at the same time. This however proved unneffective against the Mantle’s Approach who continously tanked their fire without a care in the world until the Infinity came along and punched a hole (that closed pretty quickly I might add) in its defense, but lets assume that it takes half the punishment to bring down her shields in this scenario. The Mass Effect side would need to deal 7.240 teratons of continous damage to bring down the Mantle’s Approach shield, so they would just need to fire for… 7363 seconds, although this time would be doubled since they cannot fire every second and they must wait 2 seconds to fire. o ti’d be 14726 seconds… or 245.6 minutes which equals 4.09 hours. That is of course assuming that they do not run out of ammunition in the first place, or that the Mantle’s Approach does not destroy them for some silly reason.

  65. IamTaco October 25, 2013 at 12:34 pm -      #5965

    But you also said that it would suffer considerable damage when it’s unlikely that anything ME would be able to scratch it, let alone do any lasting damage to it.
    -
    I might have some free time later so I might try to debunk some of the pro ME side arguments later.

  66. IamTaco October 25, 2013 at 1:17 pm -      #5966

    ‘You’re forgetting the fact that the UNSC was at war for their survival. Almost all spare industrial power would be geared towards shipbuilding and weapons manufacture instead of commodities. The SA and Citadel took losses in 2183, and without any real build-up, recuperated them in a couple years, surpassing their previous numbers. We haven’t seen what ME’s wartime production like.
    Halo Wartime Industry =/= ME Peacetime Industry.’
    -
    And your forgetting that the UNSC wasn’t exactly at their best shape at that the point of time. They were getting wiped out by the covenant to the point where they had trouble producing basic supplies such as food. Hundreds of worlds glassed, most of their major shipyards destroyed and they had half the fleet’s budget going into the infinity at that time. And yet the UNSC could still produce hundreds of ships from a single shipyard and get the 300 orbital defense platforms up and running again. Among other things.
    -
    ME at her peak couldn’t even replace the losses of a single fleet primary composed of frigates and cruisers. And yes you might argue that it could have been because of political reasons but you have no proof. It could been easily have been that ME’s industry just plain sucks. All we know for certain that a couple of fleets composed primary of frigates and cruiser lost a third of their numbers in ME1 and still haven’t been replaced in their original number even in ME3 3 years later. And the description for the war assets talk about the fleet not being rebuild due to time time constrains.
    -
    Not wanting to rebuild the fleet due to political is just plain retarded too. ‘Oh look, a geth fleet just invaded and crushed though our greatest defenses and killed the council. Instead of strengthening our defenses to make sure that this never happens again as well to raise morale and show off our militarily prowess we’re just going to cut ship production to a minimal to save money.’
    -
    Which is even more retarded when if ME’s industry is as powerful as you say it is then they would have no problem rebuilding the fleet without much regards to money.
    -
    Compare that to post war UNSC which in addition to repairing all the damage done to them during the war could build dozens of entirely new ships upgraded with forerunner tech. Not just building more of the same kind of ship but entirely new designs that would have needed lot’s of R&D. Just a couple of years after they lost just about every single major shipyard they had.
    -
    So UNSC wartime industry that is being ripped into tiny shreds=/=ME’s peace time industry.
    -
    ‘At the point before the Battle for Earth, a combined Galactic Fleet for ME would have something like 10,000-15,000 (Council~3000, Other~500-1000, Quarians/Geth, Rest) ships or more, excluding the Reapers. That would steamroll Halo.’
    -
    Yeah, maybe if they weren’t destroyed by the final battle. Oh and only a hundred or so of those ships are dreadnoughts. Which are the only ships worth a tinker’s damm in a battle between Halo. Frigates and cruisers aren’t going to be worth too much . And most of the Quarian’s ships really suck. Basically civilian ships with guns sloppy taped on. Which is why they have the greatest ship numbers. Those ships are just only to be scrap metal against halo.
    -
    ‘If we look at War-Era Halo (2524-2552) or Pre-Bear/Pre-Halo 4 whichever you prefer vs. Pre-ME3 Mass Effect (before the release of ME3 divulged the *speculative* Codex Reaper specs) I think it is pretty obvious who the victor is.’
    -
    I don’t think so. If we used the pre war UNSC and covenant at their peak vs ME at their peak. Even without any forerunner tech at all halo would still win. Win with horrible causalities and at a great cost after a long long war but they would manage to scrape out a victory.

  67. IamTaco October 25, 2013 at 1:44 pm -      #5967

    Indoctrination won’t do shit to Halo though.
    -
    Just because it worked on ME and the protheans doesn’t mean that it would work on halo.(Looking at you Lowk)

  68. o 055 o October 25, 2013 at 1:54 pm -      #5968

    Indoctrination won’t do shit to Halo though.
    -
    Just because it worked on ME and the protheans doesn’t mean that it would work on halo.(Looking at you Lowk)
    -
    If something works in one universe then it is assumed to work on other universes for the sake of debating, so no, it would work.

  69. IamTaco October 25, 2013 at 2:04 pm -      #5969

    ‘If something works in one universe then it is assumed to work on other universes for the sake of debating, so no, it would work.’
    -
    I know that it would work. I’m just saying that Indoctrination won’t be nearly as effective on halo as it was on ME and the protheans.

  70. Glutinous-Bicarbonate October 25, 2013 at 2:24 pm -      #5970

    @055

    Mind putting Quotation marks around quotes, or italicizing them or something? It’s slightly confusing whether you’re responding to someone or quoting.

  71. Kytheros October 25, 2013 at 5:48 pm -      #5971

    The damage done by the Covenant to the UNSC’s infrastructure is being heavily exaggerated, unless we’re willing to postulate that the Covenant bypassed/outright missed Earth and beat up the far side of UNSC space relative to them before getting around to Earth or we’re willing to postulate that all the colonies were heavily dependent upon Earth/Sol and few to none of them had reached levels of self-sufficiency.
    However, we know that the latter is untrue, plus, if the colonies were that heavily dependent upon Earth, the Insurrection would have been screwed before it got started.
    And Logic tells us that the former is also untrue.
    The UNSC (prior to Covenant Contact) presumably expanded more or less spherically, roughly centered on Sol (during the war expansion would have been slowed drastically if not outright stopped, and most exploration would have been scouting in the direction of the Covenant); logically the UNSC’s prewar infrastructure was roughly evenly distributed throughout UNSC space. Also presumably, the Covenant was off to one side, rather than englobing the UNSC, otherwise contact would have happened much earlier. Therefore, the damage to the UNSC would logically have been localized to the Covenant-side of UNSC space, as any reasonable search pattern the Covenant was running would have found the planets nearer to them first, and Earth would have been found by the search pattern prior to planets on the far side of UNSC space relative to the Covenant. Factor in that the Covenant apparently did not discover Earth/Sol through their search patterns for UNSC systems, but instead went there for the portal to the Ark, the location of which they found in some Forerunner relics – in other words, they had a shortcut. That would indicate that the far side of UNSC space relative to the Covenant was undamaged by the Covenant, leaving at minimum all the pre-war infrastructure intact. In addition, the UNSC wartime infrastructure buildup would most likely not have been entirely located in the Covenant-side of UNSC space.

  72. OberHeresy October 25, 2013 at 6:22 pm -      #5972

    @Kytheros
    The state the UNSC was in by the time the Covenant invaded Earth, was something like if the US was attacked by the Chinese, and they only had Washington D.C. and maybe some scattered towns around the border states, and about maybe 20% of their military remaining. No one is overstating anything. The Covenant didn’t carve a straight path through UNSC worlds, they jumped around as they discovered new planets, until very late in the war. After the destroyed most of the UNSC’s worlds, they found Earth.

  73. the_man_with The_Answers October 25, 2013 at 6:56 pm -      #5973

    The only planets left untouched by that point were Earth, a few inner colonies, and some scattered outer-colonies. Most shipyards were located within the inner-colonies, but most resources were located in the outer-colonies (Mining worlds, farming worlds, etc.), which took the biggest hit. However, most of the human population was on Earth (Something like 60% of the population is located on Earth, the moon, and mars). The average population per non-Earth planet should be around 20 million, but the average is distorted because there would often be less per planet in the outer-colonies, while much more per planet in the inner-colonies. Not sure how relevant that last part is, thought I would just share that.

  74. Zazax October 25, 2013 at 10:53 pm -      #5974

    I actually distinctly recall the exact opposite being argued when Halo 2/3 were the most recent games; that the UNSC was for the most part intact in exactly the way Kytheros is saying, used in pretty much every “UNSC vs…” of the time to justify their not being murderstomped.
    Is there any actual evidence pointing either way, or is all of this conjecture?

  75. Commander Farsight October 26, 2013 at 1:09 am -      #5975

    @Zazax
    I’m inclined to go with the latter, but I’m open to be proven wrong.

  76. Abbazorkzog October 26, 2013 at 2:18 am -      #5976

    @TMWTA The reason I cannot concede with your argument supporting the MA soloing the ME universe is for this comment alone:

    “I actually think that the war would end in an effective draw because neither side has the capacity to effectively defeat the other.”

    It is bothering me, and I cannot concede with someone who contradicts themselves. I cannot mentally do it. So until you explain how Mass Effect and Halo are equal, yet at the same time MA can solo ME without effort… sorry.

  77. o 055 o October 26, 2013 at 2:42 am -      #5977

    “It is bothering me, and I cannot concede with someone who contradicts themselves. I cannot mentally do it. So until you explain how Mass Effect and Halo are equal, yet at the same time MA can solo ME without effort… sorry.”
    -
    ME vs Covenant/UNSC would end up in a draw. Mantle’s Approach would solo without effort.

  78. IamTaco October 26, 2013 at 2:45 am -      #5978

    @Kytheros
    It is stated prior to the fall of reach that the UNSC were in such bad shape that they only had months left before the covenant exterminated the remainder of the inner colonies and moved on to Earth. It is also stated that reach was the only remaining stronghold left which also held one of their last major shipyards. You’re assuming that the covenant would travel in a straight line into UNSC space but due to their nature and speed of FTL they can pop up anywhere in UNSC space and bypass some colonies. Due to this a number of inner colonies were also destroyed by the covenant. We also can see this in the fact that the covenant bypassed a number of inner colonies to strike at Earth. Most of the outer colonies at that point were already destroyed. Not to mention the damage the covenant must have had on trade, logistics and the economy.
    -
    And a good ground side industry=/= a good ship building industry.
    -
    So, no. You can nitpick all you want but it’s canon that most of their industrial power was shot to pieces during the war and they still managed to do some impressive stuff with the little they had left. Much better than anything ME has ever shown even with their full strength.
    -
    ‘So until you explain how Mass Effect and Halo are equal, yet at the same time MA can solo ME without effort… sorry.’
    -
    Woah….

  79. OberHeresy October 26, 2013 at 2:49 am -      #5979

    @Zazax
    From every single book I’ve read, and using the games partially as a reference, though they don’t touch on this subject much, and definitely not in detail, I’ve been lead to believe Earth, and a few other planets, mostly too far away to be an issue of the Covenant, were all that was left at the point when the Covenant invaded Earth.
    -
    They definitely weren’t very intact, I can tell you that.

  80. OberHeresy October 26, 2013 at 2:50 am -      #5980

    @055
    I’m pretty sure that, using current UNSC/Covenant, since they have access to Forrunner tech now, basically can beat ME.

  81. o 055 o October 26, 2013 at 2:55 am -      #5981

    @OberHeresy
    -
    Only the UNSC has any real chance of damaging the ME side after the war, and that is still restricted to some ships (Infinity and her 10 escort Frigates) and not the whole fleet (which we don’t know the exact size of. The Covenant Remnant have around 30 ships during Halo 4-Spartan Ops and even then those are Light Cruisers that are around 300 meters long with the odd CCS Battlecruiser and Carrier thrown in the mix; the fact that this ships (save for the CCS and Carriers) have no shields and can be taken down by single missiles from a pre-revamp era ship doesn’t exactly speak favorably of their durability.

  82. erickyboo October 26, 2013 at 3:59 am -      #5982

    In 2511 humanity was at some over 39 billion. In October 2552, humanity had lost 23 billion.
    -
    Why do you say restricted to infinity and complement?
    -
    CRS-class cruisers have shields… it was a nuke that took it down… and there are more than 30…
    youtu.be/iRwTnK37mrM
    At least 3 CAS-Carriers, many, CRS and a number of RCS and CCS class cruisers. Jul’s force. It doesn’t account for the Arbiter’s side, independents, other factions and races such as thru jiralhanae.
    -
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXQCxO6AaDQ
    This plus new ships. ONI does have access to a forerunner hangar and its ships.

  83. Abbazorkzog October 26, 2013 at 6:52 am -      #5983

    Right, since the Flood are defeated, the MA is destroyed, and the Forerunners no longer exist in current Halo. Halo at its current date vs ME prior to Priority Earth would be a close fight.

  84. Abbazorkzog October 26, 2013 at 6:59 am -      #5984

    And like I said just because Halo wins in most cases doesn’t mean ME *can’t* win. Remember, they have Commander Shepard, his charisma alone could win over the allegiance of any alien species despite their technology simply because of his meta-level ethos abilities, and renegade interrupts xD. Shepard could grant ME a victory just by simply swaying the Forerunners with words, and getting their help to defeat the Flood. Then it would become Halo+ME vs the Flood, since the latter is the only one that could not be reasoned with. Since it was Shepard of the ME verse that accomplished this, the victory would go to him and ME. Shepard appealing to Forerunner/Covenant/UNSC leadership and forming a pact with them is a possibility that cannot be ignored. This and indoctrination, but seeing as Shepard is the only known individual in the known galaxy to resist indoctrination, Shepard Charisma > Indoctrination in terms of effectiveness. So no, the MA could not necessarily solo the ME verse if we factor in Commander Shepard. No, the ME verse would not be counting on a 200 mile long Forerunner Warship, the most powerful one in their fleet at that, but the Didact would not be counting on Commander Shepard…

  85. Commander Farsight October 26, 2013 at 10:19 am -      #5985

    @Abbazorkzog
    I really hope 5984 was a joke. If so, lol. If not….

  86. OberHeresy October 26, 2013 at 11:24 am -      #5986

    Guys…..no its not that close. The Halo still has Foerunner tech, they just don’t directly have Forerunners. We’ve been over this a lot……Halo, with what we know, has shown to have very good wartime, and peacetime production rates, while ME is very lacking in that area comparatively. Then, take into account that no matter what ending is picked, there is no way to quantify how much they rebuilt, so we just have to assume that it’s just like it was before the war……
    -
    AND THEN add in the Forerunner tech Halo has……..and we got a pretty handily won Halo victory.
    -
    So, for crying out loud….Halo for FP award.

  87. the_man_with The_Answers October 26, 2013 at 11:43 am -      #5987

    ” So until you explain how Mass Effect and Halo are equal, yet at the same time MA can solo ME without effort… sorry.”
    -
    1. The Forerunners are extinct. Dead. Gone. They hold no bearing on the debate. If they were still around, they would effortlessly murderstomp Mass Effect without question. But this is current incarnation.
    2. The MA was destroyed at the end of Halo 4, it no longer holds bearing on the debate. Doesn’t change the fact that if it did still exist it would crush Mass Effect.
    3. Check the date of that post. It was before Halo 4 came out.
    4. As it stands now, Halo took the lead because they have rebuilt, and upgraded themselves to a point where they are significantly stronger than they were prior to the war. All thanks to Halo 4 which came out months AFTER that post.
    -

  88. erickyboo October 26, 2013 at 12:04 pm -      #5988

    Forerunners are not extinct… what are you talking about?
    -
    The flood could be unleashed once more…

  89. geomax October 26, 2013 at 12:12 pm -      #5989

    “and the Forerunners no longer exist in current Halo”
    Actually, they do. After the Halos fired the remainig Forerunners(which includes Offensive Bias’s battlefleet) left for another galaxy.

  90. the_man_with The_Answers October 26, 2013 at 1:12 pm -      #5990

    Has that ever been officially proven?

  91. o 055 o October 26, 2013 at 1:22 pm -      #5991

    “CRS-class cruisers have shields… it was a nuke that took it down… and there are more than 30…
    youtu.be/iRwTnK37mrM
    At least 3 CAS-Carriers, many, CRS and a number of RCS and CCS class cruisers. Jul’s force. It doesn’t account for the Arbiter’s side, independents, other factions and races such as thru jiralhanae.”
    -
    The holographic projection is not really the true number of ships leaving Requiem since it keeps replaying even after they are gone, besides, if they had so many ships one would think that they’d be able to simply destroy the Infinity by sheer numbers alone. Counting all the ships in the campaign and Spartan Ops (cutscenes included) I estimated around 30-40 ships.
    -
    5 or so in Dawn, 3 in Forerunner, another 3 in Infinity, around 8-10 in the Spartan Ops Episode 1 cinematic, a Cruiser in Shootout at Valhalla, another above the scientific outpost in the jungle that gets destroyed by Fireteam Shadow, around 4 during the Covenant invasion of the Infinity and around 8 or so more during the Exodus cinematic.
    -
    Also you’re right, I was wrong about the energy shields bit, but the point still stands that they are pretty weak compared to the mainline ships used by the former Covenant, I mean, the Infinity was able to heavily damage two of them with her PD guns which are like, 70mm only, while other was destroyed by a Frigate’s MAC*
    -
    *Granted, we don’t know if the MAC that the new Frigates carry has been upgraded.

  92. erickyboo October 26, 2013 at 1:53 pm -      #5992

    Constant stream of covenant ships. Its what we see. It wasn’t just a few. Jul was able to gather a reasonably sized fleet. The holographic projection is what we base off. How can you say its not really true?
    -
    Even with a big fleet, Infinity is still powerful enough to take many down. Its more than a match for the Song of Retribution, Jul’s assault carrier,
    -
    There are missile battery networks, onagers on the infinity. Enough fire that can bring ships down.
    -
    You mean, YOU don’t know if frigate MACs are upgraded?
    Charon class has a mark II light coil. Strident class has a mark IV heavy coil.
    -
    youtu.be/wOpJkmFohaI
    Listen to this. It takes place on the Ark after the rings are fired.

  93. o 055 o October 26, 2013 at 2:58 pm -      #5993

    “Constant stream of covenant ships. Its what we see. It wasn’t just a few. Jul was able to gather a reasonably sized fleet. The holographic projection is what we base off. How can you say its not really true?”
    -
    We see a few jump to slipspace and that’s it. I am watching the video as I type this and Rolland’s dialogue would be highly unnecessary if there were dozens of Covenant ships pouring out of Requiem since it would be pointing out the obvious: “Captain.” -points at holographic projection, even though assuming you’re right then there should be at least 12 ships right in front of the Infinity already without them noticing. Furthermore, we see a grand total of about six ships accompanying Jul’s ship.
    -
    You can even see it here www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRwTnK37mrM at 1:36 that all the ships already left and the hologram at the left is still replaying the animation, it’s not a constant stream of ships it’s just a simulation of their trajectory.
    -
    “Even with a big fleet, Infinity is still powerful enough to take many down. Its more than a match for the Song of Retribution, Jul’s assault carrier,”
    -
    They didn’t seem to have many problems sending a couple of CRS-Light cruisers when it was offline, if they had as many ships as suggested then they could have destroyed the ship while the Promethean Knights were invading it.
    -
    “There are missile battery networks, onagers on the infinity. Enough fire that can bring ships down.”
    -
    See the point above.
    -
    “You mean, YOU don’t know if frigate MACs are upgraded?
    Charon class has a mark II light coil. Strident class has a mark IV heavy coil.”
    -
    That means nothing without any data about the capabilities of the MAC gun.
    -

  94. the_man_with The_Answers October 26, 2013 at 3:22 pm -      #5994

    “That means nothing without any data about the capabilities of the MAC gun.”
    -
    For perspective, Frigates were previously using the MkII Light Coil MAC. By the shear presence of “heavy,” I’m going out on a limb to say it hits harder.

  95. o 055 o October 26, 2013 at 4:01 pm -      #5995

    “For perspective, Frigates were previously using the MkII Light Coil MAC. By the shear presence of “heavy,” I’m going out on a limb to say it hits harder.”
    -
    But the question is, how harder?

  96. Abbazorkzog October 26, 2013 at 4:42 pm -      #5996

    @Commander Farsight its not, Shepard is the only person (other than Shiala) known to have resisted indoctrination. Although I’m assuming we are -not- factoring in Shepard or the Chief to this fight to make it more clean-cut and simple. If we are though, I would have to say my Commander Shepard rapestomps.

  97. Commander Farsight October 26, 2013 at 7:25 pm -      #5997

    @Abbazorkzog
    Shepard resisting indoctrination is redundant. We factor in Shepard, but he doesn’t “Rapestomp”, far from it. He can’t stop team Halo from slaughtering their remaining fleet.

  98. OberHeresy October 26, 2013 at 8:01 pm -      #5998

    Yeah….Abby, you might wanna….stop?

  99. OberHeresy October 26, 2013 at 8:04 pm -      #5999

    So….any ays….can we get onto the subject of Halo for the FP award?

  100. OberHeresy October 26, 2013 at 8:04 pm -      #6000

    And yes, I know triple post……but post 6000.

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