Halo Vs Mass Effect

Halo Vs Mass Effect

Here we have a clash of two Sci-Fi franchises looking for bragging rights. I don’t know enough about the Mass Effect universe to give a fair estimation on who would win, so I’ll leave it to the good hands of the BankGambling readers.

Who wins?

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5,272 Comments on "Halo Vs Mass Effect"

  1. Zazax July 17, 2013 at 5:11 am -      #5101

    “For all we know there aren’t any such artifacts that are both salvageable and within team Halo’s ability to recover.”
    I’ve said pretty much this exact thing at least a half dozen times since the Janus Key was first introduced. They are either ignoring it, always forgetting, or don’t seem to think it’s an issue, for some reason.

  2. Watchdog Lowk July 17, 2013 at 5:25 am -      #5102

    “Garrus went toe-to-toe with Garm, a Krogan Blood Pack leader. He took a gunship missile to the face and lived to tell the tale.”
    -
    That becasue he’s Garrus muthafuckin Vakarian. AKA Archangel, the calibrator. That like Comparing Punisher to a regular soldier.

  3. Watchdog Lowk July 17, 2013 at 6:00 am -      #5103

    “They are either ignoring it, always forgetting, or don’t seem to think it’s an issue, for some reason.”
    -
    Because it feels inevitable.
    ===
    Only turians I feel could take on elite in straight melee are the ones from Armiger Legion or the cabals. One wears jetpacks and there omniblades hit hard enough to shake the ground they hit and can release an incendiary blast.
    Cabal because they mix poisonous+paralytic claws and biotics into their melee.

  4. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 6:36 am -      #5104

    A Krogan Battlemaster would kick an elite’s ass any day of the week.

  5. BC July 17, 2013 at 10:25 am -      #5105

    “ “block approximately the size of a household refrigerator and throw them much more often”
    .
    Actually, Alliance dreadnaughts fire 20kg ferrous slugs which would be around the size of modern tank shells. “
    -
    I was going by the visuals where a gunnery crew was standing by what was identified as accelerator ammunition, and it is true those could have actually been metal crates with the projectiles in them.
    -

  6. Eric Gigliotti July 17, 2013 at 10:31 am -      #5106

    “A Krogan Battlemaster would kick an elite’s ass any day of the week.”
    .
    In hand-to-hand maybe. But shotgun vs plasma rifle doesn’t bode well for the Krogan at longer ranges.

  7. Watchdog Lowk July 17, 2013 at 10:43 am -      #5107

    “A Krogan Battlemaster would kick an elite’s ass any day of the week.”
    -
    We know, we were going over turian.
    ===
    “In hand-to-hand maybe. But shotgun vs plasma rifle doesn’t bode well for the Krogan at longer ranges.”
    -
    Depends on which shotgun. Graal spike thrower could be used at longer ranges. Besides that they use assault rifles like every other species and they even have a krogan made rifle that acts like a rapid fire grenade launcher.

  8. Namer July 17, 2013 at 12:20 pm -      #5108

    The Graal Spike Thrower was designed to kill Thresher Maws. At close-medium ranges, it’ll leave an Elite a bloody splat on the wall.

  9. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 1:40 pm -      #5109

    Krogan Battlemasters are Biotics- they can very well splatter the Elite on the wall regardless of armament…

  10. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 17, 2013 at 1:45 pm -      #5110

    “I would love to see a Turian try to fight one in hand to hand.”
    Am I the only one who would prefer seeing a yahg take on a brute?

  11. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 2:01 pm -      #5111

    “Am I the only one who would prefer seeing a yahg take on a brute?”
    .
    Wouldn’t be much of a fight…
    .
    Besides- they’d have to manage to get one on a ship without it turning on the crew first…

  12. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 17, 2013 at 2:06 pm -      #5112

    “Wouldn’t be much of a fight…”
    Why’s that?

  13. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 2:18 pm -      #5113

    “Why’s that?”
    .
    Yahg are like extra large Krogan with all the stats increased proportionally and raised to 11 (including speed and intelligence).

  14. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 17, 2013 at 2:24 pm -      #5114

    @Galorian Krogan are about as strong as a spartan and elite, maybe a bit weaker, and the brutes are even stronger than them. That’s why I’d think it’d be a good fight, the two strongest species of each side in a fist fight(excluding hunters, even then brutes have been able to fight them off in h2h). Maybe I am overestimating the brute. *shrugs*

  15. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 3:23 pm -      #5115

    This is a nice showing for how fast and strong a Yahg is, not to mention the whole “pause to roar at the player while standing right next to a jet of flames before running through it while giving zero f**ks” thing (assuming the link works).

  16. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 3:25 pm -      #5116

    Crap…
    .
    Just copy the following sans “*”:
    .
    http://*youtu*.be*/*fN3wMqMr18c?t=15s

  17. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 3:27 pm -      #5117

    Goddammit…

  18. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 17, 2013 at 5:27 pm -      #5118

    @Galorian During the SB vs Shepard fight I noticed that Shepard was giving him quite a bit of trouble in a h2h. Even getting in a shoving match at one point, which (s)he lost, but still gave the SB a bit of a challenge. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTiPmSO7YTg 4:00 At around 3:15 in the same video you can see Shepard being able to knock back a yahg with his fists. Not that brutes don’t have low showing either, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one being knocked back by a punch from a human.
    -

  19. Watchdog Lowk July 17, 2013 at 5:36 pm -      #5119

    Shepard is a cyborg with enhanced muscles and bones though… Wouldn’t that just count as a feat to how strong he his?

  20. SgCombine July 17, 2013 at 5:43 pm -      #5120

    @Lowk
    Don’t his cybernetics only increase his strength to about 160% his natural strength though? I could have sworn I saw that posted in one of Shepards matches.

  21. Aelfinn July 17, 2013 at 5:46 pm -      #5121

    Aelfinn the Annhilator here, how’s it going? Didn’t read any page but this last one, and this one I skimmed. Don’t know much. Don’t have a clue, to be honest. Anyway, who’s winning this thing? Who has the fastest ships, the strongest weapons, and the better industry? Also, aren’t the Mass Relays a major weak point for Mass Effect?
    *away I fly*

  22. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 17, 2013 at 5:54 pm -      #5122

    @Lowk IIRC the whole point of the Lazarus Project was to bring Shepard back to his normal self as much as possible, while there were some improvements I don’t think they enhanced them that much, could be wrong though.

  23. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 6:02 pm -      #5123

    “Don’t his cybernetics only increase his strength to about 160% his natural strength though? I could have sworn I saw that posted in one of Shepards matches.”
    .
    Base ME1 Shepard is genetically enhanced to mildly (IIRC round 10-20%) above base human in most respects (like all Alliance personal), then he got cybernetically upgraded by Cerberus to an unknown yet extensive degree.
    .
    The strength upgrades treat Shepard’s post Lazarus stats as 100%, which means that by endgame he’s 60% above whatever level of cybernetically enhanced strength he had when he left the Cerberus facility.
    .
    Throughout ME2 Shepard has displayed supehuman strength on several occasions, most notably when shrugging a large metal slab off his back in the Collector Base ending sequence- www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCEwxaAOoFY&feature=youtu.be&t=1m50s.
    .
    Shepard is seriously f**king strong.

  24. Galorian July 17, 2013 at 6:05 pm -      #5124

    To get an idea of how heavy those things are-http://youtu.be/yCEwxaAOoFY?t=3m9s.

  25. the_man_with The_Answers July 17, 2013 at 8:09 pm -      #5125

    “Barriers can be adjusted or be set differently.”
    -
    Yes, adjusted or possibly just made differently, but they do not do that passively.
    -
    “That also assumes that a relay would passively sit by and lest a Halo ship with a malfunctioning slipspace drive attach itself to it. Or that the slipspace drive can break the relay’s anchors and draw the relay into slipspace with it. Usually anything that gets that close to an active relay gets thrown down a wormhole by the relay.”
    -
    Considering those “anchors” would also be within the slipspace bubble, all the anchors will do is get transported to slipspace with the Relay. Also, proof for things without a Mass Effect Core being sent away randomly be Relays?
    -
    “Maybe. There is nothing that indicates that the relays are anything but big machines which would be simpler and probably faster to construct than growing cybergenetic constructs.”
    -
    Bigger machines need more resources, more time to get those resources, and more time to apply said resources.
    -
    “How would it be any different than finding a human colony?”
    -
    Because the search area is incredibly smaller. Instead of searching a, say 65,000ly^3, you are searching a volume of 4,200ly^3. Quite the difference.
    -
    “The effectiveness of the Cole protocols will work against the Halo forces yet again, but this time it will be a case of the ME transit charts not having anything to do with the real positions of the relays”
    -
    Then how did the crew of ME2 figure out that the Omega Relay leads to the center of the galaxy? If things were only relative to each other (This relay links with this one, that links with that one), that would be impossible. This is only furthered by a detailed galaxy map and buyable maps/coordinates that only reinforce the idea that Mass Effect know the Milky Way better than “Relay A links you to Relay B.”
    -
    “Halo ships do not have the cooling technology to protect the hull from extreme heat, leaving it to fend for itself with its melting own point. ME ships on the other hand have extensive cooling systems that actually scavenge heat from the hull and store it in the phase change batteries. ”
    -
    That become dangerously hot and energetic with normal ME combat, let alone combat involving extreme heat based weapons.
    -
    “An increase in efficiency would be a game of a few percentages in most cases while projectile energy increases proportionally to V^2, meaning higher velocity rounds are still more effective despite the KB’s increased efficiency against them.”
    -
    I realize that, but if the efficiency keeps increasing as the velocity goes up, eventually the shields will become so efficient that velocity increases will stop doing all that much.
    Also, I have yet to see a source for “Barriers are better against light fast things.”
    -
    “Except that Chief has shields that act as a nearly frictionless surface.”
    -
    Too bad those were down when he did his terminal fall in Halo 4…
    -
    “We know what Chief’s suit is made of, and Titanium’s heat tolerance is crap.”
    -
    No, we know OUR Titanium has crap heat tolerance. We know diddly squat on the properties of Titanium-A, except for that it can quit obviously put up with re-entry unshielded.
    -
    “Pulling such accelerations requires mass lightening fields that would render a ship unable to engage in combat while they’re in use (specifically mentioned in the battle of Palavan codex entry) since your ship would be too light to handle the recoil of its own weapons or kinetic impactors, but Codex also states explicitly that disengagement is trivially easy, that in a given engagement the weaker force generally retreats and that this cannot be prevented except by attacking something sufficiently important that the opponent would not be able to afford retreating.”
    -
    I’m not saying they fight at those speeds, but rather that long ranges wouldn’t exist. If you can go from where you are to right next to a Dreadnaught, its range advantage would be a non-factor. But yet combat still goes on at those ranges, despite “0 to FTL.”
    -
    “As soon as they canonically get their hands on one of those toys you can use it in this debate, until then the viability of their doing so is theoretical and thus inadmissible.
    For all we know there aren’t any such artifacts that are both salvageable and within team Halo’s ability to recover.”
    -
    That’s a load of bull and you know it. The Janus Key was made with the exact intention of ascending humanity to their previous power, and maybe then some. It was designed so that humans could easily recover everything they need to do that.
    -
    Anyways, look at what the UNSC recovered already, even without the Janus Key. They found a 2AU Dyson Sphere filled with direct Forerunner Engineers that can already replicate Forerunner technology. They have started to manipulate slipspace time-dialation fields to grow crops in days that would normally take months (Now apply that to ship production…). They have already found at least one hanger of small Forerunner space vessels. You are seriously going to sit here and tell me the Janus Key won’t effect anything when its exact purpose was to ascend humanity, even when you consider how much the UNSC has already gained Forerunner-tech-wise without it?
    -
    “Garrus went toe-to-toe with Garm, a Krogan Blood Pack leader.”
    -
    So? Krogans aren’t exactly on Elite and SPARTAN physical levels either. Hell, Garrus didn’t even kill Garm.
    -
    “He took a gunship missile to the face and lived to tell the tale.”
    -
    To the face is an extreme overexageration. And that is more of a medical feat for ME than anything else, as Garrus would have unquestionably died within a short time. Meanwhile, Chief had an AT missile detonate right beside, or a little past, his head in TFoR. Instead of going into death spasms, he got up and ran at highway speeds.
    -
    “A Krogan Battlemaster would kick an elite’s ass any day of the week.”
    -
    Not one without biotics, as long as it is matched against an Elite of similar prowess. The Elite can quite trivially lift the Krogan’s weight with one hand. That is quite a physical advantage.
    -
    “Wouldn’t be much of a fight…”
    -
    For the Brute. Brutes are demonstrably faster, and arguably stronger.
    -
    ” This is a nice showing for how fast and strong a Yahg is, not to mention the whole “pause to roar at the player while standing right next to a jet of flames before running through it while giving zero f**ks” thing (assuming the link works).”
    -
    As compared to Brutes being as fast as MJOLNIR-clad S-IIs, stronger than MJOLNIR-clad S-IIs, and charging unaffected through three S-IIs spraying fully-automatic AP rounds into it its chest? The Yahg wasn’t even moving that fast, and ME2 makes it quite clear that Yahg aren’t all that quick on their feet.
    -
    “most notably when shrugging a large metal slab off his back in the Collector Base ending sequence-”
    -
    But so do other non-enhanced people depending on who you bring with you. That points to them not being super-heavy metal, but actually rather light metal.
    -
    “To get an idea of how heavy those things are”
    -
    That one looks WAY longer, WAY wider, and WAY thicker than the one Shepard “lifted” (The ground was also supporting it). It was also moving crazy fast, meaning any visual “weight” ques are also made to appear greater.

  26. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 18, 2013 at 1:19 am -      #5126

    @Galorian I don’t recall Shepard ever being augmented in the first game? The second game, obviously, but even then, the purpose was to bring him back to his normal self, not enhance him, so the augmentations he would’ve received would’ve been minor, not extensive. Again, I could be wrong, it’s been a while since I’ve played ME2 so I don’t recall everything on the Lazarus Project.

  27. Galorian July 18, 2013 at 4:07 am -      #5127

    “@Galorian I don’t recall Shepard ever being augmented in the first game? The second game, obviously, but even then, the purpose was to bring him back to his normal self, not enhance him, so the augmentations he would’ve received would’ve been minor, not extensive. Again, I could be wrong, it’s been a while since I’ve played ME2 so I don’t recall everything on the Lazarus Project.”
    .
    Cerberus didn’t want to mess with his mind for fear of messing up his “Shepard factor”, doesn’t mean they didn’t give him any physical enhancements (and they did).
    .
    As for ME1, Shepard was an Alliance soldier and as such received the same gene therapy all Alliance soldiers receive upon enlistment.
    .
    “Yes, adjusted or possibly just made differently, but they do not do that passively.”
    .
    Point being that a) there is no technological limitation on that regard, and b) Starship KBs were never programed to not trigger against slow moving objects in the first place.
    .
    “Bigger machines need more resources, more time to get those resources, and more time to apply said resources.”
    .
    But being conventional machines they are able to be constructed conventionally, as opposed to the Reapers themselves who must be grown slowly from processed techno-organic goop obtained via liquifying corpses.
    .
    “Because the search area is incredibly smaller. Instead of searching a, say 65,000ly^3, you are searching a volume of 4,200ly^3. Quite the difference.
    .
    Only first you have to find a colony in said 65,000ly^3 volume in order to narrow the search area to “merely” 4,200ly^3, and then you have to deal with the issue of Relays not being nearly as easy to detect as colonies.
    .
    Finally, you have to deal with the fact that ME has an extensive communication network overlapping the relay system which would alert them to the approach of unidentified vessels towards a Relay (or the loss of contact in case the satellite is destroyed), and thanks to the nature of the Relay network ME forces would be able to jump to defend the location in a matter of seconds.
    .
    “Then how did the crew of ME2 figure out that the Omega Relay leads to the center of the galaxy? If things were only relative to each other (This relay links with this one, that links with that one), that would be impossible. This is only furthered by a detailed galaxy map and buyable maps/coordinates that only reinforce the idea that Mass Effect know the Milky Way better than “Relay A links you to Relay B.””
    .
    You’re assuming that ME forces will not purge nav data if and when their ships are at risk of falling to enemy hands.
    .
    Purging computer memory when it is in danger of falling to the enemy is SOP even in today’s armies.
    .
    “That become dangerously hot and energetic with normal ME combat, let alone combat involving extreme heat based weapons.”
    .
    Apparently the “time before overheating” during “fast and furious” planetary orbit battles is still measured in hours since the allied forces engaged the Reapers in non-stop orbital combat over Earth during the entire sequence of missions that ended ME3.
    .
    “I realize that, but if the efficiency keeps increasing as the velocity goes up, eventually the shields will become so efficient that velocity increases will stop doing all that much.
    Also, I have yet to see a source for “Barriers are better against light fast things.””

    .
    Efficiency caps at below 100% (1-to-1 shield output to blocked projectile KE ratio), while projectile KE is as high as you can cram into it during acceleration (and can theoretically go all the way up to planet busting given sufficient energy so long as you don’t mind the recoil being of a planet shattering magnitude as well according to Codex).
    .
    “Too bad those were down when he did his terminal fall in Halo 4…
    .
    I suppose you’re referring to this crash- www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvUa7Ks-XTw ?
    .
    Where exactly was it stated that Chief’s shields were down? And by the way, not a single piece of debris landed on him.
    .
    “I’m not saying they fight at those speeds, but rather that long ranges wouldn’t exist. If you can go from where you are to right next to a Dreadnaught, its range advantage would be a non-factor. But yet combat still goes on at those ranges, despite “0 to FTL.””
    .
    That’s why fleets generally fly in properly screened formations- built in drive safeties would prevent a jump into point blank range due to the risk of collision. When the Reaper fleet attacked Palavan they did not maintain such a formation (cause hubris) and the Turians jumped a fleet of Dreadnaughts right into the center of their armada, destroying several Sovereign class Reapers before the Reapers could turn around and return fire.
    .
    When the tactic played out the Turians simply jumped out.
    .
    “That’s a load of bull and you know it. The Janus Key was made with the exact intention of ascending humanity to their previous power, and maybe then some. It was designed so that humans could easily recover everything they need to do that.”
    .
    A hundred millennia have passed since those plans were made, there’s no telling how much of the technology is still intact and salvageable.
    .
    “Anyways, look at what the UNSC recovered already, even without the Janus Key. They found a 2AU Dyson Sphere filled with direct Forerunner Engineers that can already replicate Forerunner technology. They have started to manipulate slipspace time-dialation fields to grow crops in days that would normally take months (Now apply that to ship production…). They have already found at least one hanger of small Forerunner space vessels. You are seriously going to sit here and tell me the Janus Key won’t effect anything when its exact purpose was to ascend humanity, even when you consider how much the UNSC has already gained Forerunner-tech-wise without it?”
    .
    Given Halo’s tendency to blow sh*t up I’m gonna have to ask for some proof that these things still exist, are in working order and in the possession of the Halo factions.
    .
    “Not one without biotics, as long as it is matched against an Elite of similar prowess. The Elite can quite trivially lift the Krogan’s weight with one hand. That is quite a physical advantage.”
    .
    a) the reverse is also true.
    b) Krogan Battlemasters are Biotics by definition.
    .
    For added lulz, BEHOLD ELITE BATTLE PROWESS! – youtu.be/pit_ixmGkjY .
    Analysis- forums.spacebattles.com/threads/elite-vs-predator-melee.247659/page-2#post-9722001
    .
    How could a Krogan possibly top that performance?? :P
    .
    “But so do other non-enhanced people depending on who you bring with you. That points to them not being super-heavy metal, but actually rather light metal.”
    .
    I haven’t really looked at that cutscene with all possible squad configurations, but from what I’ve seen Shepard is the one that lifts the plates off of the pinned crewmate.
    .
    He is also able to use a Krogan shotgun stated to have recoil that would break the arm of a human who tried to shoot it.
    .
    Also, Codex states ME utilizes construction utilizes high density construction materials-
    “high mass compaction creates dense, sturdy construction materials.”
    .
    “That one looks WAY longer, WAY wider, and WAY thicker than the one Shepard “lifted” (The ground was also supporting it). It was also moving crazy fast, meaning any visual “weight” ques are also made to appear greater.”
    .
    The density of steel is 7.8g/cm^3. Roughly eyeballing the plate that Shepard lifted at 2m long, half a meter wide and 10cm thick that comes out as 780kg, and when that thing was on Shepard’s back he’d have to lift most of that weight in order to rise due to the fact it’s almost parallel to the ground, and that with some pretty terrible leverage.
    .
    What he did was basically a push up with over half a ton of added weight on his back.

  28. Namer July 18, 2013 at 5:18 am -      #5128

    “But so do other non-enhanced people depending on who you bring with you. That points to them not being super-heavy metal, but actually rather light metal.”
    -
    Begging your pardon, practically everyone in Shepard’s squad is enhanced in some way or other. Jacob is a former alliance soldier, thus having gene therapy, and has biotics. Miranda was genetically engineered to be faster, stronger and smarter right from birth in addition to her biotics. Grunt is a no-brainer. Jack is biotic. Samara is biotic. Thane is Biotic. Legion is a Geth.
    -
    A Krogan has a much lower centre of gravity than a human. And its not like he’s gonna stand there and let the elite pick him up. Even after that, a Krogan can take tremendous amounts of punishment and still regenerate from that. You’re acting like an elite can beat a krogan simply by virtue of being able to pick him up.
    -
    Besides, without the genophage they reproduce like Unggoy. Big advantage right there.
    -
    @Aelfinn at #5121
    -
    No idea who’s winning. But Mass Relays are both an advantage and disadvantage. Disadvantage being that they can be slipspaced and destroyed, slowing down ME’s travel. But that’s countered pretty easily by grabbing another unused relay to replace it. Advantage in that they can be used to travel faster than any FTL Halo has, and they can be used as System-busting weapons.

  29. mack006 July 18, 2013 at 7:30 am -      #5129

    We should all just wait until 343 studios releases the next game and buffs the Halo universe into SUPA SAIYANS or something. No seriously, like I said before the Halo universe was severely crippled after the events of Halo 3.
    -
    Krogan vs Elite?
    pffffff
    I would rather see a Krogan fight a Hunter in a fist fight to the death!
    KROGAN VS HUNTER!!!!

  30. Galorian July 18, 2013 at 7:53 am -      #5130

    Hunters are pretty hax.

  31. the_man_with The_Answers July 18, 2013 at 10:51 pm -      #5131

    “Point being that a) there is no technological limitation on that regard, and b) Starship KBs were never programed to not trigger against slow moving objects in the first place.”
    -
    In point A, there maybe no technological limitations, but there are limitations with practicality.
    In point B, I was under the impression the KB argument was about infantry-level KBs, not starship ones. Wouldn’t KBs that activate for slow moving objects be fairly pointless for spaceships?
    -
    “But being conventional machines they are able to be constructed conventionally, as opposed to the Reapers themselves who must be grown slowly from processed techno-organic goop obtained via liquifying corpses.”
    -
    Still a massive resource difference though. I would guess it would take somewhere around 22x as much resources. If anything,”finding” resources, liquifying bodies into homogenous construction materials, and building on site would seem faster than constructing a mine, then mining, then transporting, then fabricating, then transporting, then assembling.
    -
    “Only first you have to find a colony in said 65,000ly^3 volume in order to narrow the search area to “merely” 4,200ly^3, and then you have to deal with the issue of Relays not being nearly as easy to detect as colonies.”
    -
    But in Mass Effect, where there is one colony, there are normally many others in “close” proximity (At least closer than you would find in Halo). So by finding one colony, they now have a much easier time searching for others. It would be the difference of going hunting for four-leaf clovers with no real correlation of, and hunting them with the typical of “find one and more are close by.”
    -
    “Finally, you have to deal with the fact that ME has an extensive communication network overlapping the relay system which would alert them to the approach of unidentified vessels towards a Relay (or the loss of contact in case the satellite is destroyed), and thanks to the nature of the Relay network ME forces would be able to jump to defend the location in a matter of seconds.”
    -
    That would be a problem indeed.
    -
    “You’re assuming that ME forces will not purge nav data if and when their ships are at risk of falling to enemy hands.”
    -
    When just anybody can go out at buy Nav data from a vendor, that isn’t really a big issue.
    -
    “Apparently the “time before overheating” during “fast and furious” planetary orbit battles is still measured in hours since the allied forces engaged the Reapers in non-stop orbital combat over Earth during the entire sequence of missions that ended ME3.”
    -
    That didn’t really seem like hours of time, and since the first round fired, there really was no time-lapse. Also, when lots of the ships are being destroyed constantly before even getting to their heat trouble sort of helps with that, in a weird sort of way.
    -
    “Where exactly was it stated that Chief’s shields were down? And by the way, not a single piece of debris landed on him.”
    -
    Except for the mission before where you fall towards the opening and slam into a bunch of metal plates that take your shields out, and they can’t exactly charge on the way down…
    -
    Also, metal clearly landed on him, seeing as he has to throw it off of him when he gets back up.
    -
    “That’s why fleets generally fly in properly screened formations- built in drive safeties would prevent a jump into point blank range due to the risk of collision.”
    -
    So? Just jump within a few dozen kilometers. No “proper screens” could possibly force enemy ships to stay tens of thousands of km away with a doctrine based around “0 to FTL.”
    -
    “Analysis”
    -
    Really? Shipmaster’s analysis? The one that got completely destroyed by Rama? Your not the only SBer here buddy. As Rama very thoroughly and accurately explains, Ripa demonstrates the strength to kill (quite brutally at that) Forge in a single blow. Instead, because Ripa is arrogant, he plays with Forge (There is even body language showing this). Notice how trivially Ripa deals with all of Forge’s actions. Also note point blank AP rounds don’t even phase unshielded Ripa (Actually, a clip of magnum rounds to the hand goes so far as to make him let go of a weapon). Earlier in the game, Rippa almost kills Forge with absolutely no effort.
    -
    “How could a Krogan possibly top that performance”
    -
    Considering ME1 Shepard can knock Wrex over with a single swing, Krogans aren’t exactly without there lower feats.
    -
    “He is also able to use a Krogan shotgun stated to have recoil that would break the arm of a human who tried to shoot it.”
    -
    And any old Marine in Halo can lug around a 14.5mm AMR and shoulder-fire it with no issue. Kelly, in First Strike, detached a Warthog .50cal chain gun and used it as a weapon. Apparently, as of FuD, Covenant Carbines have the recoil to noticeably knock back a young marine, but yet even Covenant Jackals (Probably the least strong Covenant race) can fire them with no issue.
    -
    “The density of steel is 7.8g/cm^3. Roughly eyeballing the plate that Shepard lifted at 2m long, half a meter wide and 10cm thick that comes out as 780kg, and when that thing was on Shepard’s back he’d have to lift most of that weight in order to rise due to the fact it’s almost parallel to the ground, and that with some pretty terrible leverage.”
    -
    Yes, “terrible leverage” when he was using his legs, back, and arms to lift that. And from I know of physics and personal experience in construction, being at or near the end of the side you are lifting gives you pretty much the best leverage.. Shepard full-body lifting half a ton (With some of that supported by the ground) is somehow comparable to Elites and SPARTANs who trivially do that with one hand?
    -
    “Begging your pardon, practically everyone in Shepard’s squad is enhanced in some way or other. Jacob is a former alliance soldier, thus having gene therapy, and has biotics. Miranda was genetically engineered to be faster, stronger and smarter right from birth in addition to her biotics. Grunt is a no-brainer. Jack is biotic. Samara is biotic. Thane is Biotic. Legion is a Geth”
    -
    Tali, Mordin, Kasumi, Zaed
    -
    “A Krogan has a much lower centre of gravity than a human.”
    -
    Have you even looked at a Krogan? Practically all of their mass looks to be in their upper body.
    -
    “And its not like he’s gonna stand there and let the elite pick him up. Even after that, a Krogan can take tremendous amounts of punishment and still regenerate from that. You’re acting like an elite can beat a krogan simply by virtue of being able to pick him up.”
    -
    No, I’m saying Elites, while being more agile than Krogans, also strip away the Krogan strength advantage as well, because Elites are at the very least just about the strength of a Krogan. Of course, there’s also that moment in ME1 where you can topple Wrex with a single swing…
    -
    “No idea who’s winning. But Mass Relays are both an advantage and disadvantage. Disadvantage being that they can be slipspaced and destroyed, slowing down ME’s travel. But that’s countered pretty easily by grabbing another unused relay to replace it. Advantage in that they can be used to travel faster than any FTL Halo has”
    -
    Don’t forget they are extremely limited “roads” of travel. Anything “off the beaten path” is generally inaccessible to Relay, leaving them to their piddly 15ly/d and 30ly/d
    -
    “and they can be used as System-busting weapons.”
    -
    Yeah, if you are a complete moron. If anything, they are a “self destruct” system buster, not really an offensive or even anywhere near practical weapon.
    -
    “I’m gonna have to ask for some proof that these things still exist, are in working order and in the possession of the Halo factions.”
    -
    I could get the exact quotes if these don’t do:
    www.halopedia.org/Trevelyan
    “Following the establishment of the research facility, numerous discoveries of records and technology were made within the shield world. Significant finds included the Bornstellar Relation;[18][19] the remains of a Catalog carapace, (designated “Forerunner remains #879″), including the desiccated, malformed corpse within; a Juridical monitor with an account of the last days of the Forerunner-Flood war;[20] and the personal armor of a latter-day Forerunner Prefect.[21] All of these discoveries were studied extensively, with the Bornstellar Relation and the monitor’s accounts giving a great deal of insight into Forerunner history and society. Matériel discovered on Trevelyan soon led to new technological developments, such as a variant of MJOLNIR (GEN2) that ONI’s Watershed Division and local Huragok reverse-engineered from the Prefect’s armor.”
    -
    I’ll also note the working Keyship in from High Charity (Even workable by the Covenant), the working fleet inside the shield world from Halo Wars, and all of the other working Forerunner technology found through the series. Actually, I don’t think there has been any Forerunner technology found that was not fully operational. And at this time, the UNSC has the remains of the Ark, a 2AU Dyson sphere, 03, the location of the other Halo rings, actual Forerunner-era Engineers, and the data from Requiem. Hell, they already have actual Forerunner engines in some ships.
    But clearly the UNSC isn’t going to find any working Forerunner technology, especially when everything ever found was in perfect working shape…

  32. deathmetal3k July 18, 2013 at 11:43 pm -      #5132

    @Aelfinn currently Halo has strength in terms or brute force firepower.

    ME has Maneuverability and range.

    Halo has faster FTL in general. Slip also allows more, how would you say it? Options where to go? Where as the Relays are faster they have far more limited options where the relays can actually send any ship, unlike slip space which can send the Halo forces basically anywhere.

    Halo I believe also has the AI advantage.

    ME has ground warfare though that’s really a none factor.

    I think ME has numbers in space but I’m not sure.

    If Janus key allows even a few forerunner ships Halo wins. Otherwise still up for debate.

    -

    Hunter versus a Krogan?… Without biotics the Krogan is doomed.

  33. Glutinous-Bicarbonate July 18, 2013 at 11:51 pm -      #5133

    @Death
    Oh? No, as far as I’m aware the ME factions have FTL to rival Slipspace already, and that the Relays on provide convenient super speedy transit.
    -
    Amirong?

  34. deathmetal3k July 18, 2013 at 11:57 pm -      #5134

    @GB The Relay are superiority faster I agree to that. But I have yet to see feats that prove their FTL can rival slipspace. On their FTL how long would it take them to travel from one side to the other of their galaxy?

    And my claim against the relays are that though their speed is superior they can only send ships to certain locations.

    Example they can only send a ship from pint A to point B. and if there’s a C in between the two the Relays are useless since they can send the ship to C but only B. (sorry if that’s a little confusing.)

  35. deathmetal3k July 19, 2013 at 12:04 am -      #5135

    Can’t send the ship to C only B.

    -

    I hate typing on phones.

  36. Watchdog Lowk July 19, 2013 at 1:30 am -      #5136

    “When just anybody can go out at buy Nav data from a vendor, that isn’t really a big issue.”
    -
    Which belong to companies that can just recall them from the machines that give them out. And Doesn’t seem like these place are exactly widespread either.
    ===
    “Tali, Mordin, Kasumi, Zaed”
    -
    Grunt’s implanted memories revealed Quarians were stated to be somewhat above humans. Kasumi may have augments considering the flash step she’s able to do with shadow strike like the N7 shadows have that allow them to do the same.
    Not sure about the the other two. All I can think of is that suits themselves can be augmented to give the wearer increased strength.
    ===
    “Have you even looked at a Krogan? Practically all of their mass looks to be in their upper body.”
    -
    Older and/or Well feed krogan look like this
    s.cghub.com/files/Image/231001-232000/231220/555_max.jpg
    The younger ones seem to have a smaller hump.
    Some of there armor seems to exaggerate it a bit. Probably because a large hump is supposed to be a sign of a superior predator.
    ===
    “But I have yet to see feats that prove their FTL can rival slipspace.”
    -
    There was a debate somewhere around the beginning think it was through page 18-19. Alliance was around the same speed as the UNSC.

  37. deathmetal3k July 19, 2013 at 1:34 am -      #5137

    @watchdogLowk I’ve been around this thread since like page 14 I belive and I recall no such debate.

  38. Watchdog Lowk July 19, 2013 at 1:43 am -      #5138

    @deathmetal
    See post #1848, page 19. Think there was more the page before that to.

  39. BC July 19, 2013 at 5:31 am -      #5139

    “ Considering those “anchors” would also be within the slipspace bubble, all the anchors will do is get transported to slipspace with the Relay. Also, proof for things without a Mass Effect Core being sent away randomly be Relays? “
    -
    The scene where they use one of those sipspace bombs on a carrier shows a relitively small area of effect (not much more than cut it in half); it does not seem that likely that it would cover the entire relay much less the relay and its anchor points. The relay that was destroyed to keep the Reapers from jumping into the galaxy took a huge asteroid with considerable mass enhancement crashing into it to accomplish. If the relays were not incredibly tough they would not have gone to so much trouble and would have destroyed it by more conventional means.
    -
    IIRC there was a line somewhere in one of the novels about it not being a good idea to get close to a relay without properly communicating with it because of a danger of being chucked somewhere. I do not have time right now to read completely through them to find the line so I will not press the point for now. It is rather moot anyway since any strategically important relay will be defended by pickets and rapid response fleets and any one of little enough importance to be unguarded would probably not be missed that much before the Reapers can replace it. Also there is still the point of how would they find a relay that is not near a noisy inhabited planet anyway.
    -
    -
    “ Because the search area is incredibly smaller. Instead of searching a, say 65,000ly^3, you are searching a volume of 4,200ly^3. Quite the difference. “
    -
    Finding a planet belonging to one of the ME combatants would still require searching for them in the full volume. Once one is found though it would still just be one system and one relay somewhere fairly close by, and then they would have to go back to searching the same way again. Finding a relay does not give them much if any useful information on finding another one since they have no way of traversing it safely to map what is on the other side.
    -
    -
    “ Then how did the crew of ME2 figure out that the Omega Relay leads to the center of the galaxy? If things were only relative to each other (This relay links with this one, that links with that one), that would be impossible. This is only furthered by a detailed galaxy map and buyable maps/coordinates that only reinforce the idea that Mass Effect know the Milky Way better than “Relay A links you to Relay B.” “
    -
    The huge black hole and extreme star density would be a giveaway as to where it is, especially coupled with the fact the relay rotates to point in the approximate direction of the core. There is no doubt they know approximately where some of the often used relays are (they make the occasional artwork of it after all), it is not likely to be close enough to really help Halo navigators though. Realspace coordinates are nothing but a curiosity and ships can do perfectly well without knowing them at all.
    -
    -
    “ That become dangerously hot and energetic with normal ME combat, let alone combat involving extreme heat based weapons. “
    -
    Antimatter thrusters get hot enough to be a danger to closely following ships, I doubt plasma would be especially hot compared to them. Eventually it would be a problem of course, but in the meantime the ME ships are quite well protected.
    -
    -
    I am out of time for tonight

  40. erickyboo July 20, 2013 at 4:17 am -      #5140

    Slipspace is faster… UNSC slipspace used to be slow but they found forerunner ships with forerunner slipspace drives.

    CSO-Class supercarriers are 27km long… hardly a small rift. New slipspace drives are more efficient than the one used by older UNSC.

    Huragoks could very likely crack the coordinates…

  41. BC July 20, 2013 at 3:07 pm -      #5141

    The increase in the slipspace drive speeds for the UNSC appears to still be in the awkward phase where some have it and some do not. That fragments the UNSC forces somewhat since the maximum fleet speed would still be that of the slowest ship so in order to take advantage of it the fleet has to be split into fast and slow ships that travel independent of the other speed category. The bulk would still be the slow ships and the fast ones would probably be used as something like cavalry skirmishers on a large scale view of the situation.
    -
    If they are smart they would use a kind of Guderian style campaign with the new ships acting as blitzkrieg “cavalry” units and the older ships as the “infantry” that anchors whatever the “cavalry” knocks down. Of course considering the boneheaded tactics Halo seems to think are good ideas I am leery about their chances of being able to actually pull something like that off.
    -
    Another problem with that kind of campaign that I doubt the Halo forces could overcome is that they would need a lot of information about the disposition of ME forces and worlds to pull it off and they will not get that quickly or easily. UNSC itself might have the patience to wait for proper scouting but my impression is that the Covenant is almost all scream-and-leap.

  42. erickyboo July 20, 2013 at 5:24 pm -      #5142

    What makes you think that not all ships are upgraded?????????

  43. Namer July 21, 2013 at 4:16 am -      #5143

    What makes you think all ships are upgraded ?

  44. Tyran July 22, 2013 at 1:17 am -      #5144

    Easy and shortsighted plan for a Halo win:
    Throw the Flood to the ME.
    The shortsighted part? when the Flood finishes with ME, it would continue with the rest of Halo XD.

  45. Watchdog Lowk July 22, 2013 at 1:29 am -      #5145

    The flood seem like the things that would actually call for the exploding relay trick. Also assuming they get to it early would either a warp bomb, disrutpor torp, or antimatter missile be good for wiping them out?

  46. Tyran July 22, 2013 at 1:42 am -      #5146

    @Watchdog Lowk
    To dealt with the Flood you absolutely need WMD.
    The problem ME has is that, IIRC, everyone and their grandmother have a FTL capable vehicle, so it would very easy for the Flood to spread. Also the most common weapon is a high velocity low calibre gun, which is terrible vs the Flood.
    Add that to the fact that Halo can use the Infinity and Covie ships to seed different ME planets with the Flood. Things are going to be nasty.

  47. fang44123 July 22, 2013 at 2:42 am -      #5147

    Which era of Unsc? the post war unsc could travel to covie standards. which is 900 light years per day. they reverse engineered covie and forerunner tech. some of their ships have shielding now one being the infinity. the unsc ships also carry weapons that let off a few megatons, while ME gives off kilotons.
    the covies plasma torpedoes should pass through the KB of mass effects ships, and even if stopped burn the crew alive and overheat the ship.

  48. erickyboo July 22, 2013 at 3:44 am -      #5148

    That’s the direction they’re going… really… 5~ years after they acquire the forerunner drives…

    The flood wouldn’t just attack halo without some sort of game thing. If they did, they would probably purposely lose.

    If the flood were to land on a planet, easily they would spread around the planet quickly. They’d infect civilians and possess tremendous strength. They don’t take as long as it takes reapers to make husks. Then they could connect themselves with ships and extract coordinates and all. Make a nice gravemind in a larger ship and depart. Would mass effect even be able to quickly use WMDs? Wouldn’t they try to quarantine first?

  49. Watchdog Lowk July 22, 2013 at 3:47 am -      #5149

    “Also the most common weapon is a high velocity low calibre gun, which is terrible vs the Flood.”
    -
    Weapons shown capable for blasting big holes on impact. Also some are designed to squash or shatter to prevent over-penetration. Plus omni-tools can be set for freezing or incinerating(both in long range projectile forms and short range spray)
    ===
    “Add that to the fact that Halo can use the Infinity and Covie ships to seed different ME planets with the Flood. Things are going to be nasty.”
    -
    They still have CIS preventing them from working with the flood. I think the only people who would actually try that is oni. Though I’m not really sure how likely they are to do it.
    ===
    “and even if stopped burn the crew alive and overheat the ship.”
    -
    Ships some of the ships layers are degined to burn away to pull heat of of them and they have a droplet system designed to help shed off heat as well.
    Might shorten the length they would remain in combat though.

  50. Watchdog Lowk July 22, 2013 at 4:01 am -      #5150

    “They don’t take as long as it takes reapers to make husks.”
    -
    Reaper indoctrination doesn’t take that long. The problem is how long they want the indoctriny to function at full on there own. They last longer via long term indoctrination.
    Also they have these guy
    images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111031192203/masseffect/images/c/c5/Invasion_Adjutant.png
    Who can flash convert people like zombies, give then enhanced stats, gives them built in weapons, and are smart enough to function as hunters.
    ===
    “Would mass effect even be able to quickly use WMDs? Wouldn’t they try to quarantine first?”
    -
    The only thing keeping ME from using WMDs on a planet is that they can live safely on it. If the Flood ruins an area then it fine to nuke that area.

  51. Namer July 22, 2013 at 5:18 am -      #5151

    ME also fucks around with Bioweapons. They have shown the capacity to use WMDs. The Turians hid a planet-cracking bomb on Tuchanka. Dreadnought Main guns that can fire every two seconds can cause damage on the level of a tactical nuke when used on planets. Then you have private corporations with Antimatter weapons.
    -
    Plasma Torpedoes ? Ablative Armour to counter the heat. Kinetic Barriers to stop the energetic particles making up the plasma.
    -
    And, no. The UNSC has kiloton-level MACs. And ME Dreadnoughts can easily output two-digit megatons of firepower. Read the last two pages.

  52. Commander Cross July 22, 2013 at 11:54 am -      #5152

    Anyone’s thoughts on Halo vs Mass Effect now ahead of Star Trek vs Star Wars in the top 10?

  53. Namer July 22, 2013 at 12:09 pm -      #5153

    No thoughts, really. Didn’t even notice until you pointed it out.
    My only thoughts are wondering how ST got the award over SW. The Q?

  54. Commander Cross July 22, 2013 at 12:12 pm -      #5154

    @Namer at #5153

    No idea either.
    I wonder if anyone(including myself) ought to go check if either side could bring in gameplay displays of weapons if it helps.
    See if that works.

  55. BC July 22, 2013 at 3:59 pm -      #5155

    ” No thoughts, really. Didn’t even notice until you pointed it out.
    My only thoughts are wondering how ST got the award over SW. The Q? ”
    -
    There was an early ST victory with the Q and then a long fought debate without them afterwards. Star Trek won due to their incredible tactical mobility (they can even fight FTL if they have to), FTL weapons, and insanely OP sensors for the most part. Transporters were a big help too.

  56. the_man_with The_Answers July 22, 2013 at 8:37 pm -      #5156

    “Which belong to companies that can just recall them from the machines that give them out. And Doesn’t seem like these place are exactly widespread either.”
    -
    Special systems with considerable resource worth are what you buy from vendors. I would assume you could just log onto the extranet and find popular vacation worlds, capitals, and other places of common knowledge.
    -
    “The younger ones seem to have a smaller hump.
    Some of there armor seems to exaggerate it a bit. Probably because a large hump is supposed to be a sign of a superior predator.”
    -
    Still look vastly top-heavy, especially due to the armor.
    -
    “The scene where they use one of those sipspace bombs on a carrier shows a relitively small area of effect (not much more than cut it in half); it does not seem that likely that it would cover the entire relay much less the relay and its anchor points.”
    -
    That “carrier” was 27km long buddy. Relays are what? 11km? 12km? That bubble should be sufficiently large.
    -
    ” Also there is still the point of how would they find a relay that is not near a noisy inhabited planet anyway.”
    -
    It would be where all the ship traffic is coming from. Civilian, commercial, or military.
    -
    “Finding a planet belonging to one of the ME combatants would still require searching for them in the full volume. Once one is found though it would still just be one system and one relay somewhere fairly close by, and then they would have to go back to searching the same way again. Finding a relay does not give them much if any useful information on finding another one since they have no way of traversing it safely to map what is on the other side.”
    -
    Mass Effect systems with population are in clusters. As far as anyone is aware, Halo ones are not. Finding one ME system indicates others are close by. Finding a Halo system means diddly-squat.
    -
    “The huge black hole and extreme star density would be a giveaway as to where it is, especially coupled with the fact the relay rotates to point in the approximate direction of the core.”
    -
    How would they know that before going through though? They weren’t like “This relay MIGHT lead to the core,” they were like, immediately after getting the data they where like “That leads right to this specific spot in/near the core.”
    -
    “Antimatter thrusters get hot enough to be a danger to closely following ships, I doubt plasma would be especially hot compared to them. Eventually it would be a problem of course, but in the meantime the ME ships are quite well protected.”
    -
    And how hot are these engines?
    -
    “That fragments the UNSC forces somewhat since the maximum fleet speed would still be that of the slowest ship”
    -
    That isn’t how slipspace works. Slower ships can follow in a “slipspace-wake,” which means they pretty much ride along with the faster vessels. The In Armor Clad did so in Halo 2, following a Covenant ship’s slipspace portal and arriving at the same time as the Covenant ship, despite Covenant being ludicrously faster. This was also done in Halo:GoO, where a Prowler tagged along with a Covenant fleet. Hell, in Halo 4, Covenant ships follow the Didact’s slipspace wake and again show up with the fastest ship.
    -
    “What makes you think all ships are upgraded ?”
    -
    In 2553/2554, ONI made it a goal to upgrade as many UNSC ships with Forerunner drives as possible. Considering Forerunner engineers can completely re-outfit and repair a Pelican with Forerunner drives in an hour or so, I would imagine in 4 or so years, quite a few ships will have the upgrades.
    -
    “Though I’m not really sure how likely they are to do it.”
    -
    I’d say pretty likely, especially if they are aware of the whole, “Halo factions are all allied.” ONI has also been dealing in biological warfare, like replacing food crops with extremely aggressive (Wipe out the original version) modified food crops that look and taste exactly the same, but hold no nutritional value or are just straight up undigestable.
    -

  57. Aelfinn July 22, 2013 at 8:43 pm -      #5157

    “My only thoughts are wondering how ST got the award over SW. The Q?”
    -
    After the Q, it was mostly the Borg, Species 8472, and superior firepower. The Borg could take any SW tech, Species 8472 with their Fluidic Space/Planet-Busting abilities, and a couple of calcs that put ST weaponry higher than SW weaponry.

  58. Watchdog Lowk July 22, 2013 at 8:56 pm -      #5158

    “Special systems with considerable resource worth are what you buy from vendors. I would assume you could just log onto the extranet and find popular vacation worlds, capitals, and other places of common knowledge.”
    -
    And the government controls the extranet. And I don’t think halo’s aware of there extranet in the first place.

    ===
    “And how hot are these engines?”
    -
    Millions of degrees Celsius according to the codex.

  59. the_man_with The_Answers July 22, 2013 at 9:22 pm -      #5159

    “And the government controls the extranet.”
    -
    No government can control something as extensive and expansive as the extranet. It would be like trying to lock everyone out of the internet today. Not only is is practically impossible, but you would be faced by extreme opposition by your own populace.
    -
    “And I don’t think halo’s aware of there extranet in the first place.”
    -
    So Halo wouldn’t think that Mass Effect has a form of “internet?” Especially when any world attacked would have thousands, maybe millions or billions, of personal and public terminals giving direct access?
    -
    “Millions of degrees Celsius according to the codex.”
    -
    And how close is “close proximity?”
    -
    Another thing, that pretty much paints all “non-Normandy” ships as massive targets, what, giving off that kind of heat.

  60. Watchdog Lowk July 22, 2013 at 9:50 pm -      #5160

    “No government can control something as extensive and expansive as the extranet.”
    -
    It’s how they ensure their stuff takes precedence over everyone else’s.
    It’s possible to shut people out like they did to Garvug and what the reapers did to earth. Only way around it is the is the QEC and that not exactly wide spread among the civies.
    ===
    “Another thing, that pretty much paints all “non-Normandy” ships as massive targets, what, giving off that kind of heat.”
    -
    Yup. Think they relay on smaller ships and shuttles to get people in stealthy. Seems everything is either would have to get to a certain speed, turn the thrusters off and drift for stealth or ftl in and yell surprise.

  61. fang44123 July 22, 2013 at 10:27 pm -      #5161

    Well for all its worth, all they really need is the flood and one planet. once the flood get a foot hold on a whole planet, they get a keymind, in turn giving the logic plaugue. anything within a few thousand lightyears can easily be infected, without having to be touched. organics, Ai ships, you name it.
    then you have the shielded unsc ships, which give out more damage than the ME ships, and have more of a damage threshhold.
    the covies ships shit all over ME’s. they give out waaayy more damage than unscs, and they would fry any ships they come in contact with.
    also they have prometheans now, they have hardlight weapons which atomize armor and flesh. one of their grenades can disintegrate a fully armored hunter. all in all halo stomps ME in space. as for ground battles, if UNSC can reverse engineer covie or forerunner tech for their weapons then they start to stomp on ground battles

  62. Tyran July 22, 2013 at 11:06 pm -      #5162

    “Weapons shown capable for blasting big holes on impact. Also some are designed to squash or shatter to prevent over-penetration. Plus omni-tools can be set for freezing or incinerating(both in long range projectile forms and short range spray)”
    While ME has weapons that would be very effective vs the Flood. IIRC the most common weapon is still a low calibre, high velocity gun that will over penetrate (the halo sniper is show blasting the head of an elite, and it still overpenetrates the Flood), so in the initial engagements the Flood would have a little advantage. Then in latter engagements the Flood would be using ME armour.

    “They still have CIS preventing them from working with the flood. I think the only people who would actually try that is oni. Though I’m not really sure how likely they are to do it.”
    I believe that it was stated by Admin that the Flood were in Halo Team, although I’m not sure. We aren’t asking them to let themselves be infected, just to carry Flood spores and infection forms to ME planets.
    And the Flood showed in Halo 3 that they know how to work with other factions if the need arises.

    “The only thing keeping ME from using WMDs on a planet is that they can live safely on it. If the Flood ruins an area then it fine to nuke that area.”
    The thing of the Flood its speed, they are going to rush for FTL transports (which are very common in ME) and spread to other planets. ME has to be capable of killing the Flood faster than it spreads.

    “And, no. The UNSC has kiloton-level MACs. And ME Dreadnoughts can easily output two-digit megatons of firepower. Read the last two pages.”
    Old frigates MACs are 64 kilotons, the SMACs are 50 gigatons shooting each 5 seconds and the Infinity MACs are even stronger. And the new improved frigates were capable of one shooting covenant ships.

    Even better, Halo has the Janus Key, which would let them find and activate Forerunner artefacts. If they manage to find and activate even one Forerunner warship, that thing would be soloing ME fleets.

  63. Watchdog Lowk July 22, 2013 at 11:31 pm -      #5163

    “IIRC the most common weapon is still a low calibre, high velocity gun that will over penetrate.”
    -
    By default most weapons are stated they are designed not to over-penetrate.
    Though they can be modded, made as default, or have the ability to change them to make them over penetrate or have high caliber though.
    And the incinerating and freezeing are apart of standard tools that most soldiers use. It’s basically an app.
    ===
    “I believe that it was stated by Admin that the Flood were in Halo Team, although I’m not sure. We aren’t asking them to let themselves be infected, just to carry Flood spores and infection forms to ME planets.”
    -
    There here But currently aren’t that big of a force and currently most of Halo has cis around helping them. The flood and only a select few don’t.
    -
    Unlike ME who are actually helping the leviathans spread their mind control and in at least two ending are in a ongoing relationship with the reapers.
    ===
    “The thing of the Flood its speed, they are going to rush for FTL transports (which are very common in ME) and spread to other planets.”
    -
    They aren’t capable of taking a hit and can’t immediately ftl off a planet.

  64. Tyran July 23, 2013 at 12:04 am -      #5164

    “They aren’t capable of taking a hit and can’t immediately ftl off a planet.”
    But they are numerous, and they will have the chaos of every civilian trying to get off the planet to escape the Flood to cover them. The ME forces have to first reach the infected planet and quarantine it, any ship trying to leave has to be shoot down.

  65. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 12:23 am -      #5165

    “But they are numerous, and they will have the chaos of every civilian trying to get off the planet to escape the Flood to cover them.”
    -
    Every citizen doesn’t have an ftl ship though? They aren’t cars were most people can afford them. FTL ships are kind of like planes. Most people I can recall shown with there own private or personal interstellar them were either had that kind of money, had military, or had some group backing them.
    ===
    “The ME forces have to first reach the infected planet and quarantine it, any ship trying to leave has to be shoot down.”
    -
    Not necessarily they have planetary defenses like orbiting stations and anti-air turrets.

  66. BC July 23, 2013 at 2:54 am -      #5166

    “ It would be where all the ship traffic is coming from. Civilian, commercial, or military. “
    -
    And they would still have to find that traffic. It is not like they can spot a ship and follow it into FTL, they work on vastly different principles.
    -
    -
    “ Mass Effect systems with population are in clusters. As far as anyone is aware, Halo ones are not. Finding one ME system indicates others are close by. Finding a Halo system means diddly-squat. “
    -
    There are some clusters, true, like the one the Batarans keep trying to get the humans to leave. Not all inhabited worlds are in clusters like that though, and whether clustered or not they are still spread out all over the galaxy. For the most part the clustered colonies are away from the various homeworlds and hitting frontier areas would not damage the ME war effort that much.
    -
    -
    “ How would they know that before going through though? They weren’t like “This relay MIGHT lead to the core,” they were like, immediately after getting the data they where like “That leads right to this specific spot in/near the core.” “
    -
    I do not remember that particular very well, but they could have had historical data of some kind or else they could have possibly asked the relay itself.
    -
    -
    “ And how hot are these engines? “
    -
    It says “millions of degrees Celsius”.
    -
    “ That isn’t how slipspace works. Slower ships can follow in a “slipspace-wake,” which means they pretty much ride along with the faster vessels. “
    -
    I forgot about that wake effect. I was under the impression that wake riding like that was dangerous though and also ships can slip out of the wake rather easily.
    -
    -
    “ Another thing, that pretty much paints all “non-Normandy” ships as massive targets, what, giving off that kind of heat. “
    -
    All of the ships have baffles to some degree; they just are not as good as Normandys. Non-sneaky ships do not need to hide anyway, and if they do they can simply coast.
    -
    -
    The low caliber extreme velocity projectile is why they do not over penetrate that much, most of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target immediately upon impact.

  67. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 6:33 am -      #5167

    Haha, if the flood do get loose on Mass effect then they are fucked.
    -
    There’s just no debating it. Especially if Halo is actively trying to help them.

  68. Namer July 23, 2013 at 7:32 am -      #5168

    That was just a little short of trollish.
    -
    Mass Effect weapons will be even more effective against infection forms that Halo Weapons. UNSC guns are just a little better than modern-day weapons, and they deal just fine with lower levels of the Flood.
    The basic ME pistol has firepower equivalent to a UNSC Assault Rifle. And yes, people can buy it for a measly 100 credits (or was it 50?). Kinetic Barriers that could be adjusted to repel the flood’s initial melee attacks are commonplace and just about everybody and their grandmother have omni-tools, which can be programmed to fire blasts of plasmic fire, electricity or cryo blasts, or create Omni-blades that are sharp enough to be viable in combat against enemies wearing hardsuits that are durable enough to survive uncontrolled atmospheric re-entry.
    Go away.
    -
    On Firepower, it’s already been said dozens of times. ME guns can fire more often than vanilla MACs. ODPs will be easy to board, seeing as ME can use FTL to jump inside their effective range. And the Infinity, is just one ship. It can be boarded.
    -
    Reaper Gunships are clearly stated to have megaton level firepower. Reaper Capital Ships have firepower superior to that.
    -
    The 400m long ME Cruisers, ships of the line, can output single-digit megaton firepower in a single minute.
    -
    If we take the fact about the Thanix Cannon giving the Normandy the firepower to rival a cruiser, we can take that a Thanix Cannon on a frigate can output a megaton of firepower in a minute.
    -
    The Salarians have entire frigate flotillas consisting of Frigates and Fighters with megaton-level firepower.
    -
    I found another interesting fact about the Salarians.
    They have Stealth Dreadnoughts.
    -
    Stealth Dreadnoughts.
    -
    Contemplate that. If you can.

  69. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 7:42 am -      #5169

    Don’t be a idiot. Why would the flood seek to engage the mass effect forces?

  70. Namer July 23, 2013 at 7:48 am -      #5170

    Ermm? To defeat them ? To infect them ? To pander to your ignorant ramblings ?
    -
    What would the flood do then?

  71. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 7:50 am -      #5171

    Nothing in ME has megaton firepower.
    -
    Anyway everyone already knew that mass effect would win in a conventional space battle.
    -
    However due to the janus key, Halo gets forerunner tech that would allow them to win.
    -
    Forerunner death star says Hi.

  72. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 7:54 am -      #5172

    Infect the entire planet while avoiding conflict.
    -
    What you don’t seem to understand is that while the mass effect forces can kill the flood all day long, it doesn’t matter if the flood just terraform the entire planet.
    -

  73. Namer July 23, 2013 at 8:05 am -      #5173

    Prove that nothing in ME has megaton firepower. Five proof of that. My proof is the Codex entry on the Fall of Earth for Reaper Gunships, and calcs done earlier for shipboard firepower.
    -
    The ME uses one of those planet-cracker bombs the Turians hid on Tuchanka. Or use their Dreadnoughts to slag it. Alliance Dreadnoughts, pretty much the weakest, have firepower on the level of a tactical nuke that can be used every two seconds. The Volus Dreadnought Kwnwu was said to be able to “char a planet three times over”. And then there are asteroids, as in ME1′s Bring Down the Sky DLC, or that during the Krogan Rebellions the Krogan dropped moons on a planet’s surface (which is the reason for Menae’s secrecy). If all else fails, there is still the Supernova method.

  74. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 8:17 am -      #5174

    You blithering idiot. The codex itself states that Reaper firepower is in the low to mid triple kilotons.
    -
    Anyway what’s with the planet razing quotes?
    -
    Are you trying to say that ME can wipe out a flood infestation using that? Cuz that’s just admitting that the flood win. Right there.

  75. Namer July 23, 2013 at 8:22 am -      #5175

    Which codex entry?
    -
    No, that’s the last ditch weapon when the flood infestation has grown too large. Like Glassing.
    -
    The Janus Key is a moot point right now. It can’t be debated, because anything Forerunner that is to be found with it is pure speculation. It could reveal a thousand Fortress-class ships, or it could reveal a cubby-hole in the middle of nowhere. That bridge will be crossed when Halo 5 comes out.

  76. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 8:27 am -      #5176

    “You blithering idiot. The codex itself states that Reaper firepower is in the low to mid triple kilotons.”
    -
    I believe he’s referring to this
    “The Reaper attack has put an end to any semblance of this former life. The great cities of Earth are storehouses of human DNA for the Reapers to harvest. Reaper gunships, capable of megaton-scale firepower, annihilated industrial centers in seconds. The militaries of Earth’s disparate nation-states have retained only partial communication with the Systems Alliance fleets, leaving the planet’s resistance efforts uncoordinated and vulnerable.

  77. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 8:32 am -      #5177

    As for the planet razing, think thats more of an exaggeration. And even if it were true it would probably take a while. with just that one ship.

  78. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 8:35 am -      #5178

    And it’s really obvious to anyone with a working brain that those were probably nukes or asteroids. Since they were being dropped on stationary targets.
    -
    Especially when the codex states that the most powerful reaper ship to ship weapon is triple kilotons.
    -
    And yet we got this little gem.
    ‘Reaper Gunships are clearly stated to have megaton level firepower. Reaper Capital Ships have firepower superior to that.’
    -
    That’s like me stating that Spartans have megaton firepower because they can carry suitcase nukes.

  79. Namer July 23, 2013 at 8:49 am -      #5179

    Yeah, the Kwunu charring a planet three times over is hyperbole, but it still has incredible firepower. More than enough.
    -
    Which Codex entry states kilotons? That’s all I ask.

  80. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 9:00 am -      #5180

    “And it’s really obvious to anyone with a working brain that those were probably nukes or asteroids.”
    -
    Considering it used the word “firepower” it’s probably not asteroid drops.
    ===
    “Which Codex entry states kilotons? That’s all I ask.”
    -
    Reaper codex entry estiamte it to be around triple digit kilotons.
    Estimates put its destructive power anywhere from 132 to 454 kilotons of TNT. Even if the target is hardened, as in the case of a surface-based missile silo, the gun can instead bury the target beneath molten metal. Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics’ dreadnoughts or cruisers”

  81. Namer July 23, 2013 at 9:17 am -      #5181

    Yeah, here’s the problem:
    -
    The Reaper main gun doesn’t fire shots like other ME ships do. They fire in streams. Which means without a specified time range inside which it outputs 132-454 kilotons, that value can’t really give a proper number for their firepower. I’m more inclined to believe its that amount per second, which would support the megaton-level firepower in the Fall of Earth entry.

  82. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 9:22 am -      #5182

    ‘The Janus Key is a moot point right now. It can’t be debated, because anything Forerunner that is to be found with it is pure speculation. It could reveal a thousand Fortress-class ships, or it could reveal a cubby-hole in the middle of nowhere. That bridge will be crossed when Halo 5 comes out.’
    -
    They have revealed what we could expect the janus key to give. Forerunner death star, left around like a piece of thrash in the Halo galaxy.
    -
    Anyway Halo is already winning due to onyx. Any piece of forerunner technology, even their toilet’s will be able to massively tip the scale into Halo’s favour.
    -
    So whatever, Halo already wins this. The janus key just ensures their victory.
    -
    And you don’t get it about the flood don’t you? The flood aren’t a conventional fighting force. Throwing troops at them won’t do anything but hamper them a little. They are a virus, capable of infecting entire planets. The only way to stop them in the early stages is to nuke the infected area. And that’s only in the extremely early stages. Later on even nukes to the face prove to be counter-productive. And in the later stages you basically have to raze the entire planet to ground. Literally. And they can do that in about a week with a couple of infection forms and spores. Think about it, for the cost of a couple of flood spore and/or infection forms you force the enemy to destroy the entire planet just to get rid of you.

  83. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 9:27 am -      #5183

    ‘The Reaper main gun doesn’t fire shots like other ME ships do. They fire in streams. Which means without a specified time range inside which it outputs 132-454 kilotons, that value can’t really give a proper number for their firepower. I’m more inclined to believe its that amount per second, which would support the megaton-level firepower in the Fall of Earth entry.’
    -
    Why do you think the codex indecisive about the reaper’s firepower? The codex’s value of 132 kilotons could be minimal firepower/time they can keep their weapon active while value of 454 kilotons could be the maximum. And yet you immediately jump to reaper’s have megaton firepower.

  84. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 9:50 am -      #5184

    “Why do you think the codex indecisive about the reaper’s firepower?”
    -
    There are variants of reapers. The smaller ones could represent the low end, the larger would represent the high end. Just like how dreads are more powerful then the cruisers.
    ===
    “And yet you immediately jump to reaper’s have megaton firepower.”
    -
    Probably because megaton firepower was actually stated. So his jump isn’t completely unfounded….

  85. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 9:54 am -      #5185

    ‘There are variants of reapers. The smaller ones could represent the low end, the larger would represent the high end. Just like how dreads are more powerful then the cruisers.’
    -
    Proof of this pls. Anyway why would variants of the same class of ship have such a difference in firepower? 454 kilotons compared to 132 kilotons.
    -
    ‘Probably because megaton firepower was actually stated. So his jump isn’t completely unfounded….’
    -
    And yet I explained how the megaton firepower was probably nukes and even with the quote about the reaper firepower being 132-454 kilotons.

  86. Namer July 23, 2013 at 10:16 am -      #5186

    There are Reaper Destroyers, then transports, then full Reapers like Sovereign and Harbinger.
    -
    Why do you think the codex indecisive about the reaper’s firepower? The codex’s value of 132 kilotons could be minimal firepower/time they can keep their weapon active while value of 454 kilotons could be the maximum. And yet you immediately jump to reaper’s have megaton firepower.
    -
    Because this value is probably the lowest-end calcs for the Reapers and unbelievable for anyone who has done any thinking on the subject matter. 132-kiloton shots ? An outdated Everest-class Alliance Dreadnought can do that much, in less than 4 shots, total time taken about 7.5 seconds. The 454-kiloton isn’t much better; the Asari Destiny Ascension could do that much in 6 shots, 12 seconds.

  87. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 10:18 am -      #5187

    “Anyway why would variants of the same class of ship have such a difference in firepower”
    -
    There are the Destroyers which are the smaller reapers that take on cruisers and below and then there are the Captial Ships which take on Dreadnoughts and cities.
    Just like how cruisers are weaker then dread so are the Destroyers stated to be lesser to the Capitals.
    ===
    “And yet I explained how the megaton firepower was probably nukes and even with the quote about the reaper firepower being 132-454 kilotons.”
    -
    Said it wasn’t completely unfounded, didn’t say if it was right or wrong.

  88. Aelfinn July 23, 2013 at 10:21 am -      #5188

    So I scanned this page, and while I must ask who has the superior FTL, it seems like Halo has better firepower along with the Flood, and I’m feeling that would let them win this fight.
    -
    I mean, the Flood probably aren’t as big of a threat as is being described (let’s face it, UNSC ground weapons are worse than our own), but their mere existence allows ME forces to be converted to Halo ones.
    -
    Furthermore, isn’t ME FTL dependent on the Mass Relays? What happens if they’re destroyed?
    =
    Mind, I haven’t commented five times in this thread, so these are just what I’m calling out as of now.

  89. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 10:22 am -      #5189

    The codex is under the section on full Sovereign class reaper warships.
    -
    ‘The main gun on a Reaper CAPITAL ship dwarfs that of the Alliance’s Everest-class dreadnoughts. No dreadnought has yet survived a direct hit from the weapon. Estimates put its destructive power anywhere from 132 to 454 kilotons of TNT. Even if the target is hardened, as in the case of a surface-based missile silo, the gun can instead bury the target beneath molten metal. Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics’ dreadnoughts or cruisers.
    -
    ‘Because this value is probably the lowest-end calcs for the Reapers and unbelievable for anyone who has done any thinking on the subject matter. 132-kiloton shots ? An outdated Everest-class Alliance Dreadnought can do that much, in less than 4 shots, total time taken about 7.5 seconds. The 454-kiloton isn’t much better; the Asari Destiny Ascension could do that much in 6 shots, 12 seconds.’
    -
    And yet, the codex has spoken. The most powerful reaper weapon is 132-454 kilotons. No amount of whinning is going to change that.
    -
    In the case of a Reaper CAPITAL ship, these kinetic barriers can hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction. Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.

  90. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 10:32 am -      #5190

    “I mean, the Flood probably aren’t as big of a threat as is being described (let’s face it, UNSC ground weapons are worse than our own), but their mere existence allows ME forces to be converted to Halo ones.”
    -
    Isn’t the same true for ME? They have the adjutants which transform people into one of them, reaper indoctrination, and leviathan mind control. The last two allow for deep cover agents as well since they don’t change anything about the person. And the leviathans is capable of mass control.
    ===
    “Furthermore, isn’t ME FTL dependent on the Mass Relays?”
    -
    No there ships have ftl, relays provide instant travel from one system to another.

  91. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 10:40 am -      #5191

    ‘“I mean, the Flood probably aren’t as big of a threat as is being described (let’s face it, UNSC ground weapons are worse than our own), but their mere existence allows ME forces to be converted to Halo ones.”’
    -
    On the contrary. The flood are a extremely deadly threat in the MEverse. Or in any universe where FTL travel is extremely common.
    -
    ‘No there ships have ftl, relays provide instant travel from one system to another.’
    -
    FTL travel without the relays are extremely shitty though. And the relays are essentially giant targets that are practically asking to be destroyed by Halo.

  92. Namer July 23, 2013 at 10:45 am -      #5192

    The codex also has spoken that Reaper ships have megaton-level firepower.
    -
    So we have two codex entries directly contradicting each other.
    -
    The easiest and most logical way to bridge the two would be to take the 132-454 value as kilotons output per second. Then in a minute you have between approximately 8 megatons for the lower value and 28 for the higher value. Which correlates with the firepower I stated.
    -
    This has to be kilotons per second because Reaper guns aren’t shot weapons. They’re beam weapons. They hold down fire for a period of time.

  93. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 10:49 am -      #5193

    So spartans have megaton firepower now?
    -
    And UNSC ships have have megaton-petaton firepower.
    -
    Sounds good to me.
    -

  94. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 10:57 am -      #5194

    “So spartans have megaton firepower now?
    -
    And UNSC ships have have megaton-petaton firepower.”
    -
    That kind of comparison doesn’t seem valid to what he is saying.

  95. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 10:59 am -      #5195

    So you’re saying that spartans don’t have megaton firepower.
    -
    What madness is this?

  96. Aelfinn July 23, 2013 at 11:02 am -      #5196

    “Isn’t the same true for ME? They have the adjutants which transform people into one of them, reaper indoctrination, and leviathan mind control. The last two allow for deep cover agents as well since they don’t change anything about the person. And the leviathans is capable of mass control.”
    -
    How easily are they done? The Flood are pretty much a “drop-off-and-go” deal, while they can ruin entire populations and industries (not always, but possible).
    -
    “The flood are a extremely deadly threat in the MEverse. Or in any universe where FTL travel is extremely common.”
    -
    They get fairly easily killed by weapons inferior to modern day ones. Should any infection be spotted, a significant surge of troops should be sufficient to take it out. Of course, this would be devastating should the Flood be used in conjunction with an invasion of a planet, but one million troops could take out anything they spotted.

  97. Aelfinn July 23, 2013 at 11:04 am -      #5197

    On the issue of Reaper firepower, how about feats are gone off of? Otherwise, you have two contradicting codices.

  98. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 11:20 am -      #5198

    ‘They get fairly easily killed by weapons inferior to modern day ones. Should any infection be spotted, a significant surge of troops should be sufficient to take it out. Of course, this would be devastating should the Flood be used in conjunction with an invasion of a planet, but one million troops could take out anything they spotted.’
    -
    That’s if they decide to go up against a million of troops. The flood won’t be stupid enough to do that. They will be targeting colony and un-habited worlds first. Worlds without much military force. And the flood with access to flight/FTL will be dropping flood forms left and right. Hijack a plane and every 20km you fly you drop off a infection form. Can you imagine it? Instead of a single area to concentrate their forces on, there will probably will a hundred/thousand/whatever infectious hotspots around the entire planet that will ball out control and consume the entire planet if they don’t locate each one and burn off all the biomass in each infected area in like a day. And that’s if they knew where the hell are the infected areas.
    -
    And that’s if the troops know how to fight the flood. They could kill off any infection forms they see but then? The infection forms would be ‘dead’ but it’s still capable of spreading the flood around. Would they be able to figure out that the flood can infect animals and plants? Wouldn’t do much good if they killed off every single flood combat and infection form but then a flood infected/person/dog/cat/plant escapes or survive and spreads the flood again.

  99. Watchdog Lowk July 23, 2013 at 11:21 am -      #5199

    “How easily are they done?”
    -
    Adjutants are sort of like zombie, they catch someone they transform on the spot, now they both do that to other people, and so on an so on.
    Reapers can do it as long as they or one of their artifacts remain in range for a certain amount of time.
    Leviathans can do it via carry-able orbs. Hide an orb in an area and the force in that area could be controlled. Thats an actual tactic ME was using to steal/ free reaper forces.
    ===
    “Otherwise, you have two contradicting codices.”
    -
    Not really it could either be taco’s “they used nukes” or namer’s “kilotons per second”. Personally I think it might have been one of there weapons that wasn’t gone over in codex, like the hades cannon.

  100. IamTaco July 23, 2013 at 11:22 am -      #5200

    ‘On the issue of Reaper firepower, how about feats are gone off of? Otherwise, you have two contradicting codices.’
    -
    He’s just being a idiot. Reapers have 152-454 kiloton firepower max.
    -
    The megaton quote is probably just reapers using nukes.

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