Halo Vs Mass Effect

Halo Vs Mass Effect

Here we have a clash of two Sci-Fi franchises looking for bragging rights. I don’t know enough about the Mass Effect universe to give a fair estimation on who would win, so I’ll leave it to the good hands of the BankGambling readers.

Who wins?

Related Posts:

SHARE THIS POST

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Myspace
  • Google Buzz
  • Reddit
  • Stumnleupon
  • Delicious
  • Digg
  • Technorati
Author: admin View all posts by

4,733 Comments on "Halo Vs Mass Effect"

  1. IamTaco March 26, 2013 at 5:31 am -      #4601

    Slipspace bombs.

  2. SgCombine March 26, 2013 at 9:18 am -      #4602

    “and whatever’s left of the Forerunners in Halo (so, what, the Computer!Librarian? Haven’t read Silentium yet, so just going by Halo 4)”
    -
    I’m currently reading it right now but someone who already read it spoiled it for me and said that
    -
    “however the IsoDidact, at least ONE other Warrior-Servant and some Life workers, including the new Life shaper, were left alive on the lesser Ark AFTER the halos were used.”
    -
    Will confirm or deny later when I get to that part.

  3. VunderGuy March 26, 2013 at 2:41 pm -      #4603

    @IamTaco

    Are slipspace bombs even being used, or is that too much conjecture?

  4. VunderGuy March 26, 2013 at 2:48 pm -      #4604

    @Zazax

    I don’t know…technically, it’s not like ALL of the sun’s energy was directed into the Mass Relay…so maybe, the asteroid was large enough and going fast enough to exceed the amount of force that would be focused or was upon the relay during a super nova. Or maybe, the transmit mass was too large and…

    On another note, what’s the estimate given for the numbers of ships the UNSC and Covenant factions have? I know both are more industrious and than any one race of the Mass Effect Universe by a lot, by how much back on its feet is the UNSC and Covies after the end of three?

  5. erickyboo March 26, 2013 at 7:44 pm -      #4605

    Unsc can launch asteroid at stuff [:D]

    Really? Confirm or deny when you get to that part? Who do you think I am?

    And this match is bound to have spoilers of course.
    Plus you won’t find that in the book itself. It’s in the bonus content.

    In the halo 3 terminals I believe they also use slipspace as a weapon.

    The halo story has been halted until some months, other than the maps locations next week. It’s no longer moving so fast as before.

    Unknown number of ships exactly but there is a minimum. You can see forward unto dawn, the ending.

  6. SgCombine March 26, 2013 at 9:31 pm -      #4606

    “Really? Confirm or deny when you get to that part? Who do you think I am?”
    -
    I don’t think I got that quote from you. Anyway I just want to read it myself and see, though personally I bet a lot more Forerunners made it out than just those 4 or 5. Still wondering about that part near the beginning where Didact mentions billions of Forerunners evacuating, what happened to them all, why didn’t they get to the shield worlds? I know you finished Silentium so was that ever answered Ericky?

  7. erickyboo March 27, 2013 at 2:10 am -      #4607

    The life workers on the secret ark survived. Their monitors should have as well. Guilty spark says he knows were to find the librarian I believe so she seems to be alive. The ur-didact, IsoDidact. There is mendicant bias. His fleet as well. Perhaps check the halo 3 terminals to see if there are any clues as to the size of his fleet.

    Quote for shield worlds: “When the Shield Worlds were designed, the far-scattered assembly of their component parts was planned to discourage a complete understanding of armaments and capabilities even among Builders. Only the Warrior-Servants who would serve in these recounts-the Didact’s beloved fellow prometheans -would be apprise of their final configuration.” There are the didact’s, there are the prometheans. They might know some stuff, the composers as well perhaps. Audacity hasn’t been reported destroyed either. It is unlikely but I wonder if the portal to the ark could be reconfigure to form a ship again. It might take too long though.

    I don’t know about the shield world’s usage as population shelter. Were they used? Maybe,

    No ancient forerunners though. Path Kethona’s precursors and forerunners are lost. The ships are still there but if they’re operational is another story. The biological domain-like thing, not sure if its gone or not.

    The ark is damaged.

    There might be fortress-class ships still left. Maybe multiple ships armed with composers could be beneficial.

    But really, humanity being turned into prometheans in a way is a kindness, an honour. To join the didact’s most trusted army. Although they’re reduced to knights, they still their digital forms.

  8. BC March 27, 2013 at 1:29 pm -      #4608

    -
    “ If you didn’t read the book, why the fuck are you talking about it? Are you telling me that reading a short phase about the book written by some random guy on the internet can enlighten you enough to make certain assumptions? “
    -
    As I said I was going more on what people, including you, are posting on this thread more than anything else in regard to the Bear Halo stuff. I was not the first one to compare them to the Cthulhu mythos here on this thread, I just pointed out that if they are indeed extradimentional deities of some sort they should not be included in this debate since it would render debate pointless.
    -
    “ Also Bear wanks the hell out of his setting ? News to me considering that his forerunner saga is his only work on a per-extisting franchise and every single other piece of his work. “
    -
    I guess you never heard of his Star Trek novel “Corona”, his Star Wars book “Rogue Planet”, his Foundation book “Foundation and Chaos”, or his Kzin Wars book “The Man Who Would Be Kzin”.
    -
    I am not saying he is a bad author; he did a very good job in “Rogue Planet” for instance. His pushing the limits style even helped get the SW EU out of a rut and it was set at a time where it did not directly conflict with pre-set canon in an irritating way though he introduced an entirely new technology to the ST universe (which others later adopted and ran with). His original works are excellent for the most part and make good references for ‘getting’ the concept of conceptual reality for players of White Wolf’s “Mage: The Ascension” game since he seems to be very fond of the concept and uses it a lot (and is probably where White Wolf got it from). “Slant” is especially good if you feel like a really bizarre alternative to cyberpunk or other relatively near future books if you can get through the weird atmosphere and (probably deliberate) fractured pacing of it. Bear is one of the type of writers who are often described as “using bold strokes on a wide canvas” which is good in its own way but he simply does not color inside the lines when writing in someone else’s story world which I often find irritating.
    -
    He had a considerable good impact on Star Wars but not so much on Star Trek. Corona was an example of the same kind of thing that he apparently did in Halo; the main characters of the TV series were almost like guests with the guest characters of the book in the foreground and was heavily metaphysical and very un-Trekish on the whole. While ultra-high power things (in this case intelligent protostars that possess people) are not unusual in Star Trek plots the way it was done would have significantly altered the balance of power if it was canonized and it did not “reset to baseline” the way episodes or Trek books usually are so the next ‘episode’ is not unduly impacted.
    -
    I cannot say much if anything about the Foundation book or the MK War one since I did not read first one and only skimmed the second a long time ago.
    -
    -
    “ Oh, and I’m sure that you’ll provide proof that Bear has wanked the forerunners so much that they seem un-realated to the forerunners shown in the game. It’s not like the very first game showed a PLANET SIZED RING THAT COULD KILL OFF EVERY SINGLE SENTIENT LIFE FORM IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY. … “
    -
    Star Wars has the same kind of thing with their Forerunner equivalents as do many other sci-fi universes including to a smaller extent Mass Effect with the Protheans and possibly others. In ME’s case no one after the Leviathans had enough time to develop much but the Protheans at least had the instantaneous personal transfer via the miniature relay in the citadel and the one in their laboratory facilities; if they would have survived the Reapers longer they could easily have produced a galaxy wide network of them. Other things were possible too and if they ever get the ME movie actually done and it catches on enough to make more they may even introduce some of them some time.
    -
    Andre Norton made the term “forerunner” popular in sci-fi though she used as a blanket term for any ancient starfaring civilization. Most of them used the concept that Clarke put so well: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Her “Beastmaster” duology has the longest look at one of her forerunner facilities though they are used to some extent throughout her sci-fi writings. Very many authors use the term or something like it to represent ancient powers that have left traces of themselves behind in the form of wondrous, usually indestructible, artifacts of various sorts and usually have some kind of cataclysmic problem that destroyed the civilization(s), often of their own inadvertent making.
    -
    The point is that the whole “forerunner” trope is supposed to have had the tech that seems like magic, and they usually had world or galaxy destroying power in some form just like the ones in Halo. What they do not have usually is actual godlike power, they do not live forever and untouchably in another dimension and toy with mere mortals in the protagonists dimension for amusement or sustenance or some other, alien, motive; that is a different trope altogether. Originally Halo used the forerunner trope for their Forerunners but later on started inflating it (via Bears novels) until finally ending up with a clear cut “elder god” trope with the Precursors and Flood. There is a definite difference between the two concepts even if is sometimes (rarely) a bit on the subtle side though since it has been stated numerous times in this thread that the Precursors inherently CANNOT LOOSE and merely throw the fight when it suits their purposes it is not subtle here.

    -
    In debates like this even Lovecraftian level elder gods turn the whole thing into pointless “my god is bigger than your god” nonsense and everything else falls by the wayside. With the Precursors as the ‘toy with the mortals’ elder god types it is no longer a war of people and technology as “Halo vs. Mass Effect” it becomes in effect “Precursors and their Flood vs. nothing equivalent from ME” which is not a debate at all.
    -
    This thing is getting way too long, I am going to have to break off my reply here and continue in later posts. My posts after this one will be current incarnation only though; I am tired of these idiotic Forerunner/Precursor sidetracks.

  9. IamTaco March 30, 2013 at 11:35 am -      #4609

    ‘As I said I was going more on what people, including you, are posting on this thread more than anything else in regard to the Bear Halo stuff. I was not the first one to compare them to the Cthulhu mythos here on this thread, I just pointed out that if they are indeed extradimentional deities of some sort they should not be included in this debate since it would render debate pointless.’
    -
    As I said before if you haven’t read the book yet how can you form such a strong option on the the flood/Precursors? Anyway the flood/Precursors exist as an eldritch abomination only in the way they are presented. Older than the stars themselves and utterly incompressible to the human mind. Their methods of warfare however still consist of the old fashioned energy transfer and infecting organics and A.I alike. Not snapping your fingers and wishing your opponent away. In fact their warfare seems similar to ME expect on a much larger scale and much more powerful. In fact some expects of the flood/Precursors seem extremely similar to the culture.
    -
    Anyway, how fucking stupid are you? When terms such as ‘Cthulhu mythos’, ‘eldritch abomination’, ‘Lovecraftian level elder gods’ are used they don’t refer to power levels. They refer to the general presentation of whatever it is needs the term. They are used for the’How to describe these grotesque mockeries of natural law? There are no words that can encompass such disgusting foulness, not in English or any other human tongue. They are The Other. The Inconceivable. Alien beyond comprehension, their sole existence is an affront to all reason. We could speak of painfully dissonant noises and nauseating colours, or of complex mathematics and daemonic geometries, or of ichor-dripping vermiform tentacles and abyssal yonic voids, but those are mere superficialities. Monstrous and sick though these stigmata are, they do not define the abominations; they are merely among some of the more common symptoms of their underlying wrongness.’ From Tvtropes.
    -
    They are not examples of power. An example would be the reapers. Before ME3 that utterly destroyed any horror one may have felt at the hands of the reapers, people commonly described them as Eldritch Abominations and compared them to the Lovecraftian horror/Cthulhu mythos. And they are, extremely old, seemly without purpose, seeking to harvest the galaxy, driving men mad via mere contact and ‘You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding. There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension, I am Sovereign. We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation, independent, free of all weaknesses. You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence.’
    -
    And yet the Reaper weren’t consuming galaxies and raping reality and wishing people away at the snap of their tentacles. And before ME3, alot of people would have described them as an Eldritch Abomination and compared them to the Lovecraftian horror/Cthulhu mythos. That didn’t stop from using the Reaper in this match though, you fucking prick. What happened to ‘In debates like this even Lovecraftian level elder gods turn the whole thing into pointless “my god is bigger than your god” nonsense and everything else falls by the wayside’ cuz until ME3 the reapers were undoubtedly an ‘Lovecraftian horror’.
    -
    So, yeah. When I compare the flood/Precursors to the Cthulhu mythos, I compare them to the general setting and presentation of their race not how powerful they are.
    -
    ‘Star Wars has the same kind of thing with their Forerunner equivalents as do many other sci-fi universes including to a smaller extent Mass Effect with the Protheans and possibly others. In ME’s case no one after the Leviathans had enough time to develop much but the Protheans at least had the instantaneous personal transfer via the miniature relay in the citadel and the one in their laboratory facilities; if they would have survived the Reapers longer they could easily have produced a galaxy wide network of them. Other things were possible too and if they ever get the ME movie actually done and it catches on enough to make more they may even introduce some of them some time.’
    -
    I’m sure you will provide some example of said SW super weapon which can wipe out all life in the galaxy. And are you kidding me about ME? The reapers are a billion years old with countless races technologies and knowledge under them and yet they haven’t advanced much at all. Which implies that technologies in ME has reached their physical limit. No matter how much time passes or how much they try to. They can’t improve their tech. And really, the mini relay is impressive but comparing it to the Halo array. Which a device that even the culture would have a fit over.
    -
    ‘The point is that the whole “forerunner” trope is supposed to have had the tech that seems like magic, and they usually had world or galaxy destroying power in some form just like the ones in Halo. What they do not have usually is actual godlike power, they do not live forever and untouchably in another dimension and toy with mere mortals in the protagonists dimension for amusement or sustenance or some other, alien, motive; that is a different trope altogether. Originally Halo used the forerunner trope for their Forerunners but later on started inflating it (via Bears novels) until finally ending up with a clear cut “elder god” trope with the Precursors and Flood. There is a definite difference between the two concepts even if is sometimes (rarely) a bit on the subtle side though since it has been stated numerous times in this thread that the Precursors inherently CANNOT LOOSE and merely throw the fight when it suits their purposes it is not subtle here.’
    -
    They cannot lose because them haven’t encountered a sufficiently powerful/advanced enemy to fight them yet. It isn’t a physical law of the universe. It’s like pitting the culture against Halo and going the ‘The culture cannot lose. And they have tech which is beyond human comprehension. They must be elder gods!’
    -
    So, seeing as you haven’t read the books yet can you provide me with a quote or some proof on how the flood/Precursor are literal omnipotent gods who can wish you out of reality? You know, instead of the extremely advanced and powerful civilization whom existence seems like that of a Lovecraftian level elder god. Whom war fare still consist of pew pew lasers and solid projectiles.
    -
    ‘In debates like this even Lovecraftian level elder gods turn the whole thing into pointless “my god is bigger than your god” nonsense and everything else falls by the wayside. With the Precursors as the ‘toy with the mortals’ elder god types it is no longer a war of people and technology as “Halo vs. Mass Effect” it becomes in effect “Precursors and their Flood vs. nothing equivalent from ME” which is not a debate at all.’
    -
    TL:DR I’m butt hurt that the flood/Precursor are so powerful and wipes the floor with ME. So I’m trying to get them out of this debate to try and wank ME a victory.
    -
    Firstly the big deal with debating omnipotent being is that they have no feats cuz anything and everything is possible and easy for them. They just have to snap their fingers and it’s done. This is not the case with the Flood/Precursor as they have feats, are not omnipotent and thus are debatable.
    -
    Secondly, just because it’s a stomp doesn’t mean one side should have a handicap to make it fair. Take the xeelee vs culture match. Everyone agrees that it’s a stomp. Then they left the thread alone. They don’t try to limit the xeelee to a single galaxy/ship or remove xeelee time travel to make it fair. Same for the MC vs superman match. Only the fanboys try to make it fair by giving MC a kryptonite neelder and restricting superman to human strength.
    -
    ‘ My posts after this one will be current incarnation only though; I am tired of these idiotic Forerunner/Precursor sidetracks.’
    -
    Have to remind you that you’re the one that started the whole flood/Precursors sidetrack. Find me a comment before yours that went’ LOL. Flood/Precursors beat ME so hard. GG. FP award pls’
    -
    So, pls find some proof that places the flood/Precursor as literal gods and/or omnipotent.
    -
    The culture seems to be just as advanced as the flood/Precursor and seem just a little less powerful than them. And yet I have never heard of anyone calling the culture a god/Lovecraftian level elder god/ omnipotent just calling the culture extremely advanced and powerful. Same for the xeelee. They are leagues ahead of the flood/Precursors in both tech and scale and yet I have never heard of anyone calling the xeelee a god/Lovecraftian level elder god/ omnipotent just really powerful and advanced.

  10. BC March 30, 2013 at 8:07 pm -      #4610

    Ok. I said that I am tired of this sidetrack from the debate, but I will reply to it one more time since it does not seem to be getting through.
    -
    “ As I said before if you haven’t read the book yet how can you form such a strong option on the the flood/Precursors? “
    -
    I do not have a strong opinion on it, I am merely pointing out that Bear may have jacked up the Precursor’s power level past the point where they are usable here. And I am basing that observation for the most part on your posts along with the other posts and the fact that it does fit Bears style in other books of his that I HAVE read.
    -
    “ Older than the stars themselves and utterly incompressible to the human mind. “
    -
    That is exactly what I am talking about…..
    -
    The fact that they manipulate others via the flood is just a stylistic thing; they fit the elder god trope reasonably closely from what I have read in this thread. The important part is that they are intrinsically invincible and untouchable. Invincibility means that they are not eligible for a normal fight because they cannot possibly loose no matter what the outcome otherwise. The entire multiverse containing the two opponent universes (Halo and ME) could be completely wiped out right back to their origin and the Precursers would still exist safe in their own. They are their own no-limits fallacy straight from the source material. That is usually considered at least a low tier deity definition.
    -
    “ When terms such as ‘Cthulhu mythos’, ‘eldritch abomination’, ‘Lovecraftian level elder gods’ are used they don’t refer to power levels. They refer to the general presentation of whatever it is needs the term. They are used for the’How to describe these grotesque mockeries of natural law? There are no words that can encompass such disgusting foulness, not in English or any other human tongue. They are The Other. The Inconceivable. Alien beyond comprehension, their sole existence is an affront to all reason. We could speak of painfully dissonant noises and nauseating colours, or of complex mathematics and daemonic geometries, or of ichor-dripping vermiform tentacles and abyssal yonic voids, but those are mere superficialities. Monstrous and sick though these stigmata are, they do not define the abominations; they are merely among some of the more common symptoms of their underlying wrongness.’ From Tvtropes. “
    -
    I sometimes get sloppy with terms like anyone else though I distinctly remember using the term elder god as well as eldritch horror so the meaning should have gotten across anyway. Actually there are two intertwined concepts in play here, the eldritch horror which technically is a style that could be of any power level and the elder god which as the name implies is at least lower-tier deity level. It is possible to have elder gods that are not also eldritch horrors and vice versa though Cthulhu itself and the others at the top of its pantheon were both. The fact that the Precursors are absolutely unstoppable points strongly to the elder god aspect and their style could be described as eldritch horror readily enough. They even apparently have the obtuse rules that they operate by which is similar to some of the fairy tale absolutisms that are common to the genre judging by your own statement of them scaling their minions powers to that of their playthings.
    -
    Reapers do have some of the eldritch horror in them too, the biggest difference is that they exist in realspace and are accessible and defeatable (with great difficultly) just like any other very high tech faction. The Precursors are not, they are safe in their private dimension and toy with the ordinary mortals in the main one from there. It sounds more like the Greek Pantheon than Cthulhu in that toying from safety respect though their visible operation style is more Cthulhu like (as is their total invulnerability from realspace forces). Were the Olympians (who were not even as inaccessible as the Precursers) not gods then?
    -
    “ I’m sure you will provide some example of said SW super weapon which can wipe out all life in the galaxy. “
    -
    I already have as have others in this thread. The point that I replied to was not just about the “kill all life” superweapon, you had listed off a number of the Forerunner wonders in addition to the Halos and I replied to the general gist of it instead of making yet another reply to the tired old superweapon point. -
    “ And are you kidding me about ME? The reapers are a billion years old with countless races technologies and knowledge under them and yet they haven’t advanced much at all. Which implies that technologies in ME has reached their physical limit. No matter how much time passes or how much they try to. They can’t improve their tech. And really, the mini relay is impressive but comparing it to the Halo array. Which a device that even the culture would have a fit over. “
    -
    Yes they have the technologies and knowledge of countless races; what they sorely lack is creativity. It is a common enough theme in sci-fi and fantasy really. It does not mean that the ME universe has reached the “physical limit” of their technology at all, in fact the protagonists forces improved upon captured Reaper technology to come up with the compact and efficient Thanix gun for example. The Reapers purposely leave the relays and other small treasure troves of tech laying around where developing races can easily find them just so they do not come up with something the Reapers have not seen before which could cause them no end of trouble. Look at the trouble they had with the Prothians who had a little bit of their own unique FTL tech before they discovered the relays and the citadel; if they went longer before stumbling over a relay they would have been even harder to deal with, and even then they surprised the Reapers with the gate and a few other things. Notice that the ME feat I mentioned in my previous post was the personnel transporter gate, a feat of instantaneous transport without a ship which correlated with a Forerunner feat that was not the Halos.
    -
    As it is ME FTL is very close to Star Trek’s “fast impulse” like what the Romulan ship had in “balance of terror” though the actual mechanics of it are slightly different in that they used mass effect fields rather than crude warp energy fields; perhaps in time they could develop a form of reactionless FTL like true warp drive to use when away from the relay network though that is just speculation and not fit for the debate except as an example of a possible development path.
    -
    “ So, seeing as you haven’t read the books yet can you provide me with a quote or some proof on how the flood/Precursor are literal omnipotent gods who can wish you out of reality? You know, instead of the extremely advanced and powerful civilization whom existence seems like that of a Lovecraftian level elder god. Whom war fare still consist of pew pew lasers and solid projectiles. “
    -
    Since I got most of the extreme high power impression from your posts look to your own words for quotes if you want them. I did not say the Precursors were omnipotent nor did I say they could merely wish their enemies into nonexistence. I already stated why I would consider them low level deity equivalents earlier in this post and in previous posts, I have no need to repeat it yet again here. And note I said ‘equivalents’; they do not have to have all of the trappings to have the relative function.
    -
    -
    “ TL:DR I’m butt hurt that the flood/Precursor are so powerful and wipes the floor with ME. So I’m trying to get them out of this debate to try and wank ME a victory. “
    -
    Sorry to hear you are having pain problems with your neither region. Hope you get better soon.
    -
    -
    “ Secondly, just because it’s a stomp doesn’t mean one side should have a handicap to make it fair. Take the xeelee vs culture match. Everyone agrees that it’s a stomp. Then they left the thread alone. They don’t try to limit the xeelee to a single galaxy/ship or remove xeelee time travel to make it fair. Same for the MC vs superman match. Only the fanboys try to make it fair by giving MC a kryptonite neelder and restricting superman to human strength. “
    -
    Frankly I do not care if it is a stomp or not, but it would not have gone on for so long if it really was a stomp. The match was made well before Bear started his Precurser and Forerunner inflation and the spirit of it is still primarily Reapers, Alliance, and Citadel on one side and the UNSC and Covenant and some Forerunner remnants on the other. Bear’s jumping the shark like he did is unfortunate and is one of the few times that ‘current incarnation’ fails due to that complete switch.
    -
    As an example all of the Star Trek stuff would be a stomp if sense is not used as to what is appropriate for the spirit of the match and what isn’t. Below the Q there are dozens of lesser powers that would ruin all chance of a debate if they were included so they are usually ignored. Even the least of them like the Douwd could be a total debate stopper by mindblasting the other side to death in moments. The traditional ST vs. SW debate has always centered around the level of the protagonists of the two, not the far out high end wings of the universes. This is not a case of ‘handicapping’ it is a matter of using sense so the spirit of the debate can exist. Untouchable extradimentional beings with temporarily breakable but still ultimately indestructible remote weapons that cannot be beaten and only throw the fight for their own jollies do not fit in a battle of ordinary people and machines.
    -
    “ Have to remind you that you’re the one that started the whole flood/Precursors sidetrack. “
    -
    I made the observation that the Precursors/Flood appear to violate the no deities convention, yes. I am not the one that has put so much heat into the point however.
    -
    -
    “ So, pls find some proof that places the flood/Precursor as literal gods and/or omnipotent. “
    -
    I did not make an assertion that they were, I simply pointed out that the terms used by others in the debate were the same kind of terms used for deities and as such the Precursors might not be valid combatants. No new point assertion on my part means no proofs are needed beyond the comments that are already here in the thread.
    -
    -
    “ The culture seems to be just as advanced as the flood/Precursor and seem just a little less powerful than them. And yet I have never heard of anyone calling the culture a god/Lovecraftian level elder god/ omnipotent just calling the culture extremely advanced and powerful. Same for the xeelee. They are leagues ahead of the flood/Precursors in both tech and scale and yet I have never heard of anyone calling the xeelee a god/Lovecraftian level elder god/ omnipotent just really powerful and advanced. “
    -
    I know nothing about the culture or the xeelee, not even from comments like those I am having to rely on in this thread about the Precursors so I cannot comment on that. Are they in the same plane as their opponents or are they in some other plane playing god like the Precursors apparently are?

  11. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 2, 2013 at 10:07 am -      #4611

    Sovereign’s advanced Voice Acting solos.

  12. sisc01 April 13, 2013 at 9:07 am -      #4612

    The rappers are too overkill!! Without them it would be evenly mached but because flood can’t infect synthetics mass effect in the longrun. Unless the flood infected enough krogans. Then it would get scary for mass effect.

  13. SgCombine April 13, 2013 at 2:20 pm -      #4613

    “because flood can’t infect synthetics mass effect in the longrun.”
    -
    They infected most of the Forerunners A.I.s via logic plague, they even infected cyborgs like Catalog with that method.

  14. Optimusprime April 20, 2013 at 11:57 pm -      #4614

    I guess I’m sort of new here (I’ve looked through both stupid and good debates in BankGambling’s archive). It’s sad that that Greg Bear (was that his name?) had to write the new Forerunner books. This will lead to people that were rooting for the halo side will use the new [insert niegh-omnipotent/omnipotent beings and other insta-wins here] to their hearts content despite the “no god-like beings” rule around here. And this debate had really good potential. Aside from that, Hey everbody!

  15. Mr. happy April 21, 2013 at 3:59 am -      #4615

    hello prime welcome.
    yes that has been what has happened lately but forerunners aren’t considered gods as they cant do things like live forever,create perfect objects that cannot be destroyed,etc. but here they out match the entire MEverse and so are left out or it will be a stomp so bad our ancestors can hear it in the afterlife.

  16. Optimusprime April 21, 2013 at 4:34 pm -      #4616

    @ Mr. happy
    I do realize that forerunners are left out of this but some people will still bring them up and say it’s an insta-win for halo despite the rule of “No overpowered beings”. Just hopefully not alot of fanboys will show up like IamTaco (looking how he is using lots of colorful metaphors, I’m guessing he is a fanboy).

  17. VunderGuy April 21, 2013 at 5:41 pm -      #4617

    @Optimusprime

    If no over-powered beings are used, then how the heck do the Reapers get off scott-free?

  18. Optimusprime April 22, 2013 at 2:02 pm -      #4618

    @VlunderGuy

    I never said the reapers get off scott-free. We all know that the forerunners have gotten so OP that including them in the debate would be pointless and kill the debate. perhaps we can use the version of halo before the new forerunner books came out.

  19. deathmetal3k April 22, 2013 at 3:06 pm -      #4619

    @optimusprime

    The current incarnation of Halo we are using is right after halo 4 excluding the forerunners. And welcome to BankGambling!

    @vunderguy

    It was shown earlier that the Reapers are about equal in strength to the Covenant warships. So they’re not overpowered and can be used in this debate.

  20. Optimusprime April 22, 2013 at 6:14 pm -      #4620

    @deathmetal3k
    from what I have read from this debate the UNSC gets forerunner technology (Janus key stuff) so would they be counted in this match?

  21. SgCombine April 22, 2013 at 6:59 pm -      #4621

    @Optimusprime
    The UNSC have one half of a key and the Covenant have the other half. They have to get together to make it a full key and then they can have access to every Forerunner world, however they have to search those worlds first, and we really don’t know exactly what was left behind (besides Halos/Line defenses/shield worlds) and how much of it was left. Right now the UNSC only have limited use of Forerunner tech, mostly slipspace.

  22. Mr. happy April 23, 2013 at 8:02 am -      #4622

    so still debatable i’d say so i’ll try to sum it up
    -
    Halo
    -more accurate and strategic FTL(excluding relays)
    -possible Forerunner tech support
    -AIs
    -better space tactics(look at the sword fleet attack if you disagree)
    -shielding(KBs don’t block light based weapons)
    -damage output
    -ability to mass produce(how did they build new fleets in four years? or am i wrong?)
    =
    Mass Effect
    -range(unless something new came up)
    -speed(relays)
    -numbers
    -shipbased weapon rate of fire
    -superior infantry
    =
    feel free to add or disclaim anything that is wrong or missing!

  23. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 8:13 am -      #4623

    @Mr. Happy

    Unless I’m mistaken, don’t the relays only really help in ME space where they’re in.

    Unless I’m mistaken, the scenario for this match is like if both versions of the milky way were placed extremely close to each other, so, assuming that’s true, the relays are home field advantage and beyond the home field…they’d have to really on their inferior non-relay based FTL.

  24. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 8:16 am -      #4624

    @Mr. Happy:

    For that range thing, does it really matter when your considering space ships fight generally in a vaccuum?

  25. deathmetal3k April 23, 2013 at 9:23 am -      #4625

    I think one thing that needs to settled is if the flood can be used by the Halo forced….

    -

    Otherwise overall despite superior Infantry and range I think Halo takes the win with its superior mobility. They simply have to destroy the relays and Mass Effect forces are screwed.

  26. Robin Lowk April 23, 2013 at 10:33 am -      #4626

    “-more accurate and strategic FTL(excluding relays)
    -possible Forerunner tech support
    -AIs
    -better space tactics(look at the sword fleet attack if you disagree)
    -shielding(KBs don’t block light based weapons)
    -damage output
    -ability to mass produce(how did they build new fleets in four years? or am i wrong?)
    =
    Mass Effect
    -range(unless something new came up)
    -speed(relays)
    -numbers
    -shipbased weapon rate of fire
    -superior infantry”
    -
    Mass effect uses AI now. Also the Geth are full on AI.
    The Sword Fleet was just an all out attack that got and held some of the reaper attention, the main goal was to defending and getting the crucible ready.
    Another show of tactics would the FTL jumping trick they pulled on the reapers, Asrai using hit and run tactics, Leaking false battle plans and setting up false targets of interest.
    ===
    “For that range thing, does it really matter when your considering space ships fight generally in a vaccuum?”
    -
    Think it had something to do with the speed of the projectiles. Rather then the range. At least for the UNSCs part in this.
    ===
    “They simply have to destroy the relays and Mass Effect forces are screwed.”
    -
    Iirc Mass Effect FTL was stated somewhere on here to be around the same as the UNSC.
    On that note of mass relays, they and other large objects seem to be movable by ME(both the races and the Reapers have shown this) The citadel may have FTL since they were able to move it from where they were to earth.
    -
    Also Reapers can build them. Though they would need to do it somewhere they could have time and able to stay hidden stay hidden. Like trying to build one right next to a Halo owned base would be ill advised.
    ===
    “Unless I’m mistaken, don’t the relays only really help in ME space where they’re in.
    Unless I’m mistaken, the scenario for this match is like if both versions of the milky way were placed extremely close to each other, so, assuming that’s true, the relays are home field advantage and beyond the home field…”
    -
    Thought it was a stated and agreed on that it was a shared galaxy type of deal earlier on in the debate?

  27. Robin Lowk April 23, 2013 at 10:38 am -      #4627

    “I think one thing that needs to settled is if the flood can be used by the Halo forced….”
    -
    I still think it would go against CIS.
    Like for example, ME’s side wouldn’t let themselves be turned into Husk even with the Reapers on there side. Before what the end showed ME wouldn’t have been sharing or helping terms with the Reapers either.

  28. Mr. happy April 23, 2013 at 10:52 am -      #4628

    ‘Mass effect uses AI now. Also the Geth are full on AI.’
    how good they are we do not know. UNSC AI’s however have been shown to time and time again turn tides of battles by they’re mere management and direct control of automated weapons.
    -
    ‘Iirc Mass Effect FTL was stated somewhere on here to be around the same as the UNSC.’
    Post Halo 4 makes their FTL way ahead of ME’s. blame the forerunners if you will.
    -
    ‘The Sword Fleet was just an all out attack that got and held some of the reaper attention’
    great way to risk your greatest gamble by putting everything in rank formation. the reapers inability to take out multiple ships in one shot shows their inability to exploit this. other than that they seem fine.
    -
    i just remembered another one faster communication.this goes to Halo using slipspace(ikr).

  29. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 23, 2013 at 10:58 am -      #4629

    Calcs for ME ship durability? As compared to Halo?

  30. Virgil April 23, 2013 at 11:13 am -      #4630

    On the subject of AI the Flood can now infect AI by just being in the general proximity of one (It requires a combat form or higher to infect) via the “Logic Plague”. The infected AI can in turn infect others just by contact (Be it wireless or physical). This requires a Keymind but it wouldn’t be that hard to give the Flood a deserted world to create such…
    -
    The Flood can take worlds in a relatively short period of time (Unabated they can go even faster which in this scenario would be the case). So basically they can take over one Geth and it in turn can contact the others (They operate on a shared network right?) and infect them as well.

  31. TheSorrow April 23, 2013 at 11:26 am -      #4631

    I call potential NLF on the “Logic Plague”, does someone want to give a definitive description on how the Flood are able to infect AIs?

  32. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 23, 2013 at 11:41 am -      #4632

    I’m finding myself more and more disappointed by the impression Silentium is giving me. Halo’s appeal to me was always the “Humanity Prevails” thread, which kept going without becoming absurd. The Forerunners were a perfect backdrop of mystery, and the present was at a good technological level.
    -
    I can see why one would expand on the Forerunners, but it did kind of lessen their appeal to me; I liked the enigma of them more than facts.
    -
    Now they’re shoving the flood into the realm of the impossible. They were plenty dangerous, the right amount before, and now this business about the Flood being Precursors older than the universe itself, that broke the setting. Now nothing really feels effectual. Against that, what chance does Humankind have? It’s not even grimdark in the 40k sort of way, it is just…Moot.

  33. Robin Lowk April 23, 2013 at 12:08 pm -      #4633

    “how good they are we do not know. UNSC AI’s however have been shown to time and time again turn tides of battles by they’re mere management and direct control of automated weapons.”
    -
    Human’s rudimentary AI was good enough to help keep humans from being beaten during first contact with the more advanced Turians.
    ===
    “Post Halo 4 makes their FTL way ahead of ME’s. blame the forerunners if you will.”
    -
    Meant before that. Also I thought that wasonly one ship that had forerunner tech?
    ===
    “great way to risk your greatest gamble by putting everything in rank formation. the reapers inability to take out multiple ships in one shot shows their inability to exploit this.”
    -
    After they pummeled them from long range some spread out and tried taking them on from different angles while the other ships keep hitting them from long range.. Nevermind the that I just stated two instance where the either tried attacking from different points like from behind or using hit and run tactics.
    Also the biggest gamble was the Crucible. The ships drew fire from the reaper. This allowed the ground forces to get in, open the citadel, and allowed for the crucible to be attached without them being swarmed by reapers.
    ===
    “i just remembered another one faster communication.this goes to Halo using slipspace(ikr).”
    -
    ME has ftl communication(some lag), QEC(no lag), and the leviathans who can essentially have communicate instantly directly to other or using others as a temporary meat cellphone via the Professor X method.
    All pretty much allows ME to talk to each other real time across the galaxy real time. So not really that much of a difference in since both can communicate pretty much instantly in real time.
    ===
    “On the subject of AI the Flood can now infect AI by just being in the general proximity of one (It requires a combat form or higher to infect) via the “Logic Plague”.”
    -
    Pretty sure someone already beat you to the punch and mentioned this… Or was it you that already mentioned this?
    ===
    Also where are we at right now. At one point it was ME, then Halo, then ME again thanks to something about covie limited something, then Halo got they key thing for forerunners toy shed. Last I checked Halo was already winning…..

  34. TheSorrow April 23, 2013 at 12:37 pm -      #4634

    The Forerunners were a perfect backdrop of mystery, and the present was at a good technological level.
    -
    Which is why I believe the Forerunners were better off dead and stayed some what of a mystery.

  35. SgCombine April 23, 2013 at 2:53 pm -      #4635

    @Lowk
    “Pretty sure someone already beat you to the punch and mentioned this”
    -
    I mentioned it first, though it was in response to someone who said that MEs AIs are immune to the Flood. Like Behemoth said, the Flood are so OP now that pretty much everyone in current Haloverse is fucked, unless they use the Halos, which means they’re still fucked, which means ME doesn’t stand a chance against them. Personally I’d rather they not even be in this debate.

  36. TheSorrow April 23, 2013 at 3:32 pm -      #4636

    I can finally understand why ReDruM has such strong opinions about Greg Bear.

  37. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 3:38 pm -      #4637

    @SgCombine

    Hey Combine, mine giving me the calcs of maximum reaper ship fire to maximum covie ship output of fire?

  38. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 3:42 pm -      #4638

    @Sorrow

    But if they WEREN’T such a mystery, then we couldn’t right fully use them for debating purposes, now could we?

    Though…even then, we’d still not be able to use them because, well some idiots decided to bar them from the match.

  39. TheSorrow April 23, 2013 at 3:46 pm -      #4639

    But if they WEREN’T such a mystery, then we couldn’t right fully use them for debating purposes, now could we?
    -
    I’m not talking about the debating aspects of Halo, I am talking about Halo as series and more specifically the Forerunner trilogy. It just doesn’t feel like Halo.

  40. Robin Lowk April 23, 2013 at 3:47 pm -      #4640

    @Vunder
    Reaper firepower is somewhere between 132 to 454 kilotons. It was stated they could achieve megaton-scale firepower as well.

  41. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 3:49 pm -      #4641

    @Robin Lowk

    How?

    Also, I just realized something…this match is a joke. Wanna know why that is?

  42. SgCombine April 23, 2013 at 4:03 pm -      #4642

    @VunderGuy
    “mine giving me the calcs of maximum reaper ship fire to maximum covie ship output of fire?”
    -
    Codex has the Reaper ships at under half a megaton, dunno about Lowk’s comment on megaton-scale, but I’m sure he can elaborate.
    -
    Currently though the numbers from Halo: Reach seem to still be in effect for the Covenant until we get some new usable feats (probably in some new novel). Don’t expect it coming from Travis’s novels though, she thinks Covenant ships shoot fucking missiles as main weapons and can be destroyed by high explosive missiles even with full shields >.>

  43. Robin Lowk April 23, 2013 at 4:06 pm -      #4643

    “How?”
    -
    Codex Says Reaper Gunships attacked earth with megaton-scale firepower.
    ===
    “Wanna know why that is?”
    -
    Why?

  44. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 4:09 pm -      #4644

    @Combine

    What ARE those feats from Reach, by the way?

    @Robin Lowk

    Because, isn’t this supposed to be a Universe vs. Universe match?

  45. BC April 23, 2013 at 4:13 pm -      #4645

    “ Also where are we at right now. At one point it was ME, then Halo, then ME again thanks to something about covie limited something, then Halo got they key thing for forerunners toy shed. Last I checked Halo was already winning….. “
    -
    That depends on how you look at it. When it was just contemporary forces Halo was winning on firepower alone until it was discovered that the ME ships would be able to hit the Halo ships from ranges where the Halo ships would have a very difficult time at best hitting the ME ones. The maneuverability and range advantage of ME carried the day for a while until Halo 4 when the debate got sidetracked into “Halo and the Forerunners vs. Mass Effect” instead of just the contemporary forces clashing. With the Bear novels UNSC and Covenant are irrelevant and it is really “Bear’s Forerunners and Flood with a minor sideshow of Halo vs. ME” which I am sure is not what the original poster intended.

  46. SgCombine April 23, 2013 at 4:15 pm -      #4646

    @VunderGuy
    Terrible… just terrible .-.
    -
    “Importantly, the Covenant does not possess the capacity to accomplish ‘glassing’ on a global scale and wage a multisystem war simultaneously. This is reinforced by hard data regarding their capabilities revealed during fleet engagements with the UNSC. A single Covenant capital ship (CCS-class) is capable of ‘glassing’ approximately one acre of a planet’s surface after an average of fifteen seconds of sustained fire. Understandably this action takes considerably less time when applied to open desert, and considerably longer when applied to deep ocean (> 1.8 km)”
    -
    Data Pad #10
    Halo: Reach

  47. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 4:16 pm -      #4647

    @SgCombine

    How?

  48. SgCombine April 23, 2013 at 4:21 pm -      #4648

    15 seconds to glass one acre. Do you realize how small an acre is? It’s smaller than a football field. Basically you’re looking at sub-kiloton yields, which is absolutely retarded, but I haven’t seen any new numbers yet. *shrug*

  49. VunderGuy April 23, 2013 at 4:24 pm -      #4649

    What Battlecruiser was it?

    Also, how common is that Battlecruiser?

    Also, if Covie shields can take hits from MACs, which are like in the 54-64 kiloton range, why can’t their weapons logically output more firepower than that?

  50. SgCombine April 23, 2013 at 4:31 pm -      #4650

    @VunderGuy
    “What Battlecruiser was it?”
    -
    CSS-Class… did you even read what I posted?
    -
    “Also, how common is that Battlecruiser?”
    -
    Very common, its the backbone of the Covenant fleet.
    -
    “Also, if Covie shields can take hits from MACs, which are like in the 54-64 kiloton range, why can’t their weapons logically output more firepower than that?”
    -
    In the old books they were throwing around megatons and tanking it. That changed drastically in newer Halo stuff. Now its all “Humans are the top dogs and the Covenant is just space thugs”.

  51. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 23, 2013 at 4:33 pm -      #4651

    @Vunder
    A heavy battleship. Meaning it should have higher end firepower as the fleet goes. 15 seconds to toast an area smaller than a potato field where I live? That isn’t impressing me very much.

  52. SgCombine April 23, 2013 at 4:34 pm -      #4652

    CCS class*

  53. BC April 23, 2013 at 4:42 pm -      #4653

    ” What Battlecruiser was it?

    Also, how common is that Battlecruiser?

    Also, if Covie shields can take hits from MACs, which are like in the 54-64 kiloton range, why can’t their weapons logically output more firepower than that? ”
    -
    Glassing actually takes more power than it looks like it would since the ground and atmosphere sink away a lot of the heat. It is really not a very practical tactic, it is of more use of a terror weapon like the wildly inaccurate night firebombings of cities in WWII used to demoralize the enemy. Just destroying all installations and killing everyone is much faster and just as effective as glassing from a tactical or resource strategy point of view. Even better in fact since the enemy will be likely to expend even more of their resources to rebuild which they would probably not bother with in a glassed area unless they needed a lumpy slick pavement for something.
    -
    The glassing streams are not supposed to be viable ship to ship weapons anyway though so the point is rather moot. It would be like a bomber trying to kill fighters by dropping bombs on them in flight.

  54. erickyboo April 23, 2013 at 5:01 pm -      #4654

    www.halopedia.org/images/1/16/Reach_13943058_Full.jpg

    And new Alexandria both disprove one acre per 15 Seconds.
    The assembly was likely wrong. However the term glassing stuck.

    And you guys and your complaining of the forerunner trilogy and Greg bear… He did an amazing job.

    Halo: rebirth was also very good.

    Specially that line when Riser says something along the lines f them not being gods anymore, just people.

    It was amazing, specially when you tie it in to halo 4 and stuff. For now, halo story and information is on a wait. Not advancing every week anymore.

    The IsoDidact would likely know of where more ships are and stuff. If not just the ur-Didact as well.

  55. SgCombine April 23, 2013 at 5:12 pm -      #4655

    @ericky
    Don’t you just love contridictions in the same game?
    -
    Anyway I loved Greg Bears novels, they just don’t fit in Halo at all. They’re still a great read though.

  56. TheSorrow April 23, 2013 at 5:17 pm -      #4656

    And you guys and your complaining of the forerunner trilogy and Greg bear… He did an amazing job.
    -
    What’s wrong with critiquing things that don’t feel right to you? I don’t recall ever being required to love every addition to the Halo lore unconditionally.

  57. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 23, 2013 at 5:23 pm -      #4657

    Yah-Yah, oh Hush, nobody here is saying Bear is a bad author or that the Trilogy was bad. We’re saying that he unintentionally (or totally on purpose) broke the setting. Halo cannot be looked at the same way anymore. I liked it for its merits, just like I liked SW and 40k for theirs.
    -
    He took a setting that has been a marginality of realism, and just tried to glue a Xeelee and an Ancient and then stuff them into HALO. The Forerunners worked, worked better the less we knew of them, but nowwww…Now he’s created a grand old kerfuffle that makes it hard to take Halo serious. Funny saying that here, but it has gotten harder to take Halo seriously.

  58. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 8:15 am -      #4658

    @Gluttonous-Behemoth

    Considering that one side utilizes space magic, without which, it couldn’t possibly work, ironic statement is ironic. XD

  59. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 8:16 am -      #4659

    Also, the reason I said that this match is a joke is because, based on the premise of being a Universe versus Universe match, it fails miserably.

  60. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 24, 2013 at 8:18 am -      #4660

    “One Side?”

    -
    Slipspace Drive: No more feasible than the Mass Effect method.

  61. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 8:24 am -      #4661

    @Gluttonous-Behemoth

    Agreed.

    Phlebetonium, however, to my knowledge, is not needed to make it work.

  62. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 8:26 am -      #4662

    @Gluttnous-Behemoth

    LOL. ROFL. LMAO. And any other instant messaging acronyms you can think of.

  63. BC April 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm -      #4663

    ” Phlebetonium, however, to my knowledge, is not needed to make it work. ”
    -
    There is not really a lot of difference between lumps of solid phlebetonim and phlebetonic circuitry once you get down to it. And the metabiological space magic of the flood and precursors does not help in that respect either. :)

  64. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm -      #4664

    Or the space magic of the crucible. :D

  65. OriginalA April 24, 2013 at 1:13 pm -      #4665

    At least Mass Effect can explain why their spaceships are lighter than air. Halo cannot; it just does.
    -
    Really though, there is just as much space magic in both series. Mass Effect just embraces the idea and flat out tells you that it is space magic. Halo makes space magic through SCIENCE! ™ when in reality it is just more space magic.
    -
    That actually bugs me quite a lot. It really shouldn’t considering I like the Metroid series so much, and that one is even worse about the whole SCIENCE! ™ == space magic deal.

  66. PrimusxPilus April 24, 2013 at 1:32 pm -      #4666

    Lol. I love Metroid as well.
    -
    “Why? Because we’re transcendent uber bird sages that have magitech gear and have to fight SPACE DRAGONS THAT TEAR THROUGH STARSHIP HULLS. Why? Fuck you that’s why.”
    -
    I love the Metroid series lol.
    -
    Back to the match: sounds like halo got even more retarded, this time a buff instead of Nerf

  67. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 1:48 pm -      #4667

    @OriginalA

    No…BOTH have the whole SCIENCE! == magic deal.

  68. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 24, 2013 at 1:55 pm -      #4668

    Metroid kinda comes out with admissions of it being partially magicky. Stating basis of some things in Spiritual Realms.

  69. Commander Cross April 24, 2013 at 2:04 pm -      #4669

    You already know how I’d feel on the Tenchi Muyo multi-verse and how its left out of the party, so I won’t say it in-depth here. ;_;

  70. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 24, 2013 at 2:11 pm -      #4670

    Yes, that tends to happen to the universes that only the minority are familar with. Shall I give my laments on the obscurity of the Dragon Quartet and the Scarcity of Thin Mints to come across in happy price and quantity?

  71. Commander Cross April 24, 2013 at 2:18 pm -      #4671

    @Master Sarge at #4670

    Tell us more about both of them and I’ll be all ears in a heartbeat or less, trust me on that.
    Don’t neglect the Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper, I find it insulting that people just forgot about it, nowadays, granted its not on Sci-fi but still.

  72. OriginalA April 24, 2013 at 2:39 pm -      #4672

    “No…BOTH have the whole SCIENCE! == magic deal.”
    -
    No. Mass Effect flat out admits that it’s space magic is due to space magic rocks in the form of Element Zero.
    -
    Halo has space magic just because…
    -
    We are supposed to believe that the UNSC tech base is something that is completely mundane and possible within our understanding of the way things works without fantastical elements (e.g. Eezo). In reality it is not possible to form the technology that they have without fantastical elements. That is why I say that they use SCIENCE! ™ where Mass Effect uses magic space rocks.

  73. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 3:04 pm -      #4673

    Since ME STILL tries try to pass off mass effect technology and its basis as explainable science, thus the pretenses of being mundane, and since it never outright refers to it as space magic or the like, my point stands.

    Also, don’t they BOTH have space magic “just because”, and in, space magic “just because” the writers wanted it in there?

  74. TheSorrow April 24, 2013 at 3:13 pm -      #4674

    At least Mass Effect can explain why their spaceships are lighter than air. Halo cannot; it just does.
    -
    Yeah that really did bug me, it’s sorta just implied. No one in their right mind would give metal plated body armor without knowing how heavy it would normally be. Of course this also from the universe that made the Scorpion tank so….

  75. SgCombine April 24, 2013 at 3:35 pm -      #4675

    @VunderGuy
    Basically, one series has a name for why their physics defying abilities work and the other pretends like it’s real science. Simple as that I think.

  76. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 3:37 pm -      #4676

    @SgCombine

    I suspected as much. What do you think my odds are for arguing that ME still tries to pass it off as real science though despite it being clear to US (the audience), that it’s space magic?

  77. SgCombine April 24, 2013 at 3:41 pm -      #4677

    Considering who you’re arguing against, *shrug*, you can try, but I wouldn’t expect you to change OAs mind anytime soon.

  78. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 3:46 pm -      #4678

    @SgCombine

    So, the best I can do is fight fire with fire and not be convinced by his argument out of the same spite?

    I was planning on doing that anyways, so, glad to know you agree. XD

  79. VunderGuy April 24, 2013 at 3:47 pm -      #4679

    @SgCombine

    Thanks for having my back and your words of wisdom home skillet.

    *Makes Halo related gang sign*

    FINISH THE FIGHT! REPRESENT!

  80. OriginalA April 24, 2013 at 4:53 pm -      #4680

    Element Zero is a fictional impossible element. It cannot exist. It does not exist.
    -
    In Mass Effect it does exist because plot excuse. It is space magic. It is acknowledged as such by simple virtue of fact that the developers saw fit to make a fictional element in order to explain why Mass Effect could break physics.
    -
    Mass Effect uses Applied Phlebotinum to explian why they can break physics. They have a magical Phlebotinum rock in the form of Element Zero (which is fictional ergo space magic).
    -
    Halo uses Black Boxes, with the exception of the detail that the makers of the Black Boxes are the setting’s current characters rather than it being lost tech from a previous age (although they have that too with Forerunner tech that they don’t know how it fully works).
    -
    That is the difference between Halo space magic and Mass Effect space magic.
    -
    In Mass Effect you have an input that goes into Eezo WHICH HAS ACKNOWLEDGED PHYSICS BREAKING EFFECTS and that gives you a physics breaking result: space magic.
    -
    In Halo you have an input that goes into COMPLETELY MUNDANE TECHNOLOGY THAT HAS NO MAGICAL PROPERTIES OF ANY KIND and that gives you a physics breaking result: SCIENCE!(tm)
    -
    That is the ONLY difference between the two on their takes with space magic. Mass Effect uses Eezo; Halo uses something that is so mundane that it isn’t even worth noting inuniverse despite the grand implications of that technology.
    -
    ALL of Mass Effects’s supposed SCIENCE!(tm) bullshit is centered around one thing: element zero… magical space rocks.
    -
    All of Halo’s supposed SCIENCE!(tm) bullshit is centered around completely ordinary, physics obeying, non-fictional stuffs that works in a way that is complete bullshit.
    -
    That’s my point. Mass Effect acknowledges it uses space magic. Halo doesn’t. it is still trying to pass itself off as actually possible. (well, except for the forerunner bullshit stuff, but I’ll give that a pass due to being so fantastical it is beyond us… yeah, hypocritical I know, sue me).

  81. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 24, 2013 at 5:28 pm -      #4681

    Chozo all da way.

  82. OriginalA April 24, 2013 at 5:39 pm -      #4682

    They use Spiral Power. They get to use bullshit space magic because they kick reason to the curb and go beyond the impossible. Their tech is so absurd they are literally willing things into existence.
    -
    Actually, I think that’s why I like their stuff. It is just so absurd and they play it off as normal. Refuge in Audacity.

  83. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 24, 2013 at 5:47 pm -      #4683

    I’m a pretty big anti-anime fellow, it usually just doesn’t appeal to me in most fashions. But TTGL and Zeiram managed to get my likes, especially Gurren Lagann because of the aforementioned active fight against normality.

  84. VunderGuy April 25, 2013 at 1:31 am -      #4684

    @OriginalA

    Since any and all arguments you bring on the matter are dumb, I’m just gonna do the mature thing and do this:

    :P

  85. Optimusprime April 25, 2013 at 4:26 pm -      #4685

    @VlunderGuy

    OrigionalA was just stating the many inconsistencies within the halo books which looking at his argument I agree with him (I don’t like outrageously. I’ve already had a loathing to some of halo’s story due to so many fanboys constantly boast about halo saying it’s the next best thing since sliced bread. The next best thing since sliced bread is the toaster and the Tesla coil.

    Small Question: What time zone do you guys live in? I keep on getting emails at 5 in the morning about a new comment on this thread.

  86. Gluttonous-Behemoth April 25, 2013 at 4:29 pm -      #4686

    @Vunder
    Ori is generally a pretty thorough and logical debater; I’m not finding your accusations to have much basis.

  87. TheSorrow April 25, 2013 at 5:02 pm -      #4687

    Seriously Vunder? You are doing this again, talking down to someone without even explaining why their argument doesn’t work.

  88. Mr. happy April 26, 2013 at 8:51 am -      #4688

    i agree with sorrow and prime i’m GMT+8

  89. the_man_with The_Answers April 29, 2013 at 9:20 pm -      #4689

    I leave for awhile and come pack to a couple pages that read like:
    “Greg Bear’s novels are soggy from the Forerunner wank”
    “The Forerunner Saga added more depth to the Halo universe is great ways”
    “No way, I’m right!”
    “Nu-uh, I’m totally right”
    “No way, my subjective opinions are totally fact”
    “False! MY subjective opinions are the tru7h!”
    -
    I deem it necessary that I provide my opinion (Note: OPINION) on the matter:
    -
    The Forerunner Saga was a good read. However, most of it didn’t feel like halo. I would have to look at the cover periodically to remind me that I was, in fact, reading a Halo novel. It just didn’t really fit the prior themes, and took away the shroud of mystery behind the Forerunners that I loved.That’s not to say it didn’t add some great depth that DID fit the franchise well, like the concept of Ancient Humans, Geas, and other little tie-ins (Things about the Librarian, the Iso-Didact’s conversation with 343 Guilty Spark). I partially like what they did with the Flood, a periodic scaling threat that tests to see just how much you will sacrifice to win. I don’t like how they made the Forerunners as powerful as they did, and the Precursors come of as not only universe-breaking, but theme breaking. While I appriciate Bear’s style, I’m not a huge fan of the writing style.
    -
    That being said, I think the logical course of action to get the debate back on track is to decide which ending we are using for Mass Effect. My vote is for either Destroy or Control, as they require the fewest assumptions and the least amount of speculation. Synthesis has too many unknowns, and “Refusal” goes without any information to stand on besides “50k years in the future, we win”

  90. TheSorrow April 29, 2013 at 9:40 pm -      #4690

    I’m glad that other people share my same view on the Forerunner Trilogy. It took me a 2-3 read throughs of the first book to figure put what it was.

  91. the_man_with The_Answers April 29, 2013 at 9:53 pm -      #4691

    “I’m glad that other people share my same view on the Forerunner Trilogy. It took me a 2-3 read throughs of the first book to figure put what it was.”
    -
    There where definitely pages I had to reread a couple of times, just because things were getting a little dense. Other things seemed to be magically introduced as information that everybody should already know (And being someone who knows almost all aspects of the lore, I was still thrown for a loop).
    -
    I also felt that the Forerunner Saga wasn’t implemented very well into Halo 4 very well, on a story basis (I couldn’t care less about the technical statistics being implemented) . For however much I despise (Utterly despise) Karen Traviss’ writing (And not just Halo), her novels had better implementation (Though probably not in the way SHE wanted, as Halsey isn’t a super-nazi and Osman looks like that instead), and better writing in regards to the theme. Of course, that doesn’t make up for her horrible, horrible, unforgivable characterization attempts.

  92. TheSorrow April 29, 2013 at 10:02 pm -      #4692

    I was honestly amused at the lengths Travis sought to make Hasley look like the next Stalin. Hell, I think one of the characters made that exact comparison. She also seemed to have an affinity for Parangosky. Maybe that’s just me though.

  93. the_man_with The_Answers April 29, 2013 at 10:40 pm -      #4693

    Oh, it’s not just you. The most glaring oversight in Traviss’ take on Halo is she “forgot” that ONI were the ones to come up with the S-II project. They then specifically hired Halsey and sanctioned everything that she did. They even considered dropping Halsey from the project because she was caring a little TOO much for the well-being of the children over the idea of turning them into living death machines. But if you read the Kilo 5 stuff, it makes it look like Halsey was a rogue operative in all of this, kidnapping children because she needs their tears to satisfy her unquenchable thirst for evil, then sending defective clones back to the parents because she wants more tears. Of course, only the patron saint Parangosky can save the day, with her ship full of angels known as Kilo-Five.
    -
    Thank god Halo 4 went lolnope and made Halsey out to be a good guy (Up until Sarah Palmer not only took the stupid pill, but downed the whole bottle), and Osman out to be the obvious bad guy.

  94. TheSorrow April 29, 2013 at 10:50 pm -      #4694

    I have no love for Halsey (I never cared for her personality), but I know when someone has an agenda. The part that got to me was Travis attempt at making Parangosky look like the Grandmother Across the Bridge. She’s the director of ONI for fucks sake, they are supposed to be cutthroat, ruthless, and efficient.

  95. BC May 8, 2013 at 11:52 pm -      #4695

    ” I have no love for Halsey (I never cared for her personality), but I know when someone has an agenda. The part that got to me was Travis attempt at making Parangosky look like the Grandmother Across the Bridge. She’s the director of ONI for fucks sake, they are supposed to be cutthroat, ruthless, and efficient. ”
    -
    Maybe the point was to make Parangosky look like that while still actually being cutthroat, ruthless and efficient and if that is the case extra sneaky as well.

  96. SgCombine May 9, 2013 at 2:11 pm -      #4696

    @BC
    “Maybe the point was to make Parangosky look like that while still actually being cutthroat, ruthless and efficient and if that is the case extra sneaky as well.”
    -
    Add in massive hypocrite and that’s pretty much what she is.

  97. NightWalker May 13, 2013 at 5:18 pm -      #4697

    Ignoring the fantastic metascientific debate going on above…

    Halo is:
    -Covenant
    -UNSC
    -Flood
    -Forerunners

    Mass Effect is:
    -Reapers
    -Systems Alliance (humans)
    -Turian Hierarchy
    -Batarian Hegemony
    -Asari Republics
    -Salarian Union
    -Krogan Clans
    -Volus Protectorate
    -Yahg (don’t discount them)
    -Vorcha
    -Quarian Flotilla
    -Geth
    -Cerberus
    -Collectors/Awakened Collectors
    -Illuminated Primacy forces (the hanar’s drell assassins)
    -elcor Courts of Dekuuna forces (basically mobile artillery-carriers)
    -rachni

    …how is this not a stomp in favor of Mass Effect, again? Seriously. I’m confused.

  98. jackn8r May 13, 2013 at 5:33 pm -      #4698

    Because numbers don’t necessarily decide a match. Too many other factors in this case. They can if the factions are relatively even in terms of combat for example, but alone in this instance they don’t. The Forerunners could solo many of those factions you listed making their mention obsolete in the first place. Best to stick to the biggest guns usually in universe matches and debates like this.

  99. HD-Spartan May 13, 2013 at 5:36 pm -      #4699

    You forgot the Precursors. You know the guys who created mankind and the Forerunners?

    Also all Halo species are ranked on technology Tiers.
    The Reapers are the only Tier 1 race in mass effect, the Prothean are a weak Tier 2 everyone else is a high Tier 3. Except the Yahg I think they’re Tier 5.

    Were as the Covenant and Humanity (UNSC) in halo are a strong Tier 2. The Forerunners and Prehistoric humanity are very strong Tier 1s. The Precursors are Tier bloody 0!! The strongest there is. And the Flood will just use your strength against you.

  100. jackn8r May 13, 2013 at 5:39 pm -      #4700

    @HD-Spartan
    Even in current incarnation? I haven’t gotten around to reading the Forerunner saga as of yet; are the precursors still even around/relevant at all?

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.