Halo Vs Mass Effect

Halo Vs Mass Effect

Here we have a clash of two Sci-Fi franchises looking for bragging rights. I don’t know enough about the Mass Effect universe to give a fair estimation on who would win, so I’ll leave it to the good hands of the BankGambling readers.

Who wins?

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4,547 Comments on "Halo Vs Mass Effect"

  1. erickyboo March 20, 2013 at 2:29 am -      #4501

    Psh!
    Halo silentium is my favourite halo book.
    It was amazing, amazing so amazing. It made me feel so tiny… So insignificant. It’s an amazing adventure.

    By the way, what was the word the Librarian used to describe the knights legs? Fragile? Slender? I forgot. It makes it sound like they’re weak to her hehe.

    343i isn’t doing retcons with all that stuff. They’ve tied loose ends here and there.

    That 11 year old mystery of Guilty Spark telling John that if it were his choice, blah blah blah? That’s addressed in the book.

    It’s all so amazing. Such an incredible journey… I want more ..
    I want more…

    I WANT MORE GIVE ME MORE GIVE ME MORE GIVE ME MORE GIVE ME MORE GIVE ME MORE GIVE ME MORE GIVE ME MORE!!!

  2. IamTaco March 20, 2013 at 2:29 am -      #4502

    @OriginalA
    Don’t be a retard. For one, what makes you think that the Forerunners would want to wage war against the humans? Only a single forerunner wanted to do so, a single forerunner with his spaceship(that was probably stripped of all of it’s weapons and bullshit/hax/space magic by the librarian) and that singular forerunner almost managed to wipe out the UNSC by himself if it wasn’t for the Master chief and his plot shields, oh and 30 megaton nuke right in a chamber filled with wonky slipspace physics. The rest of the forerunners want to protect the humans not wipe them out. Or, you know why did they even protect humans from the halo array in the first place.
    -
    So you have a single forerunner wanting to destroy the humans while the rest of the forerunners race want to protect them. Hardly nerfing the

  3. OriginalA March 20, 2013 at 2:51 am -      #4503

    “For one, what makes you think that the Forerunners would want to wage war against the humans?”
    -
    I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you over all of the Didact’s efforts to wipe out humanity.
    -
    “Only a single forerunner wanted to do so, a single forerunner with his spaceship(that was probably stripped of all of it’s weapons and bullshit/hax/space magic by the librarian) ”
    -
    Uh huh… and that is why it was almost completely invulnerable AND he was imprisoned in full combat gear AND he was guarded BY HIS OWN PERSONAL ARMY.
    -
    The very fact that the Promethean Knights are presented as THE SAME EXACT MODEL that fought against the Flood when the Didact was an active force against the Flood shows that there is a huge firepower disparity between Book!Forerunners and Game!Forerunners. That, sir, is called a RETCON. And a sloppy one at that. THIS IS A MAJOR NERF TO BOTH THE FORERUNNER AND THE FLOOD!! ‘Cause Games > Books in the canon.
    -
    ” Or, you know why did they even protect humans from the halo array in the first place.”
    -
    I’m sorry, THAT was due to the Librarian sneaking them in at the last second.

  4. OriginalA March 20, 2013 at 2:59 am -      #4504

    @Eric
    Ummm. 343i is doing some heavy retcons. Did you even watch the terminals in the Halo Anniversary edition? Suddenly the Halos go from unarmed research stations that have WMDs. Then that turns into they are massively armed defense stations that can fuck up reality and even stop local time! Guilty Spark could have ended the Covanant Fleet as well as the Pilliar of Autumn at any moment but he chose not to cause he was alone. THAT IS A RETCON! Initially the context that was given was that the Halo couldn’t defend itself (defensive measures were never mentioned at all; the only mentioned weapon on Halo was the Halo itself).
    -
    Don’t be telling me 343i isn’t retconing stuff when they clearly are. They keep trying to hype up the Forerunners as these super awesome unstoppable war gods…. and then they have to keep making them retarded in order for John-117 to not die by them.

  5. IamTaco March 20, 2013 at 3:04 am -      #4505

    foreunners if the entire race of them is actively trying to stop the singular forerunners from destroying the humans. The librarian has made plans 100k years in advance to prevent to the extinction of the human race. In fact in Spartan ops she just passed them a device contenting the location of every single forerunner technology in the galaxy. What makes you think that 343i wouldn’t buff the UNSC using this instead of nerfing the singular forerunner set against the rest of his race?
    -
    Oh and the flood/Precursors. They want to lose. That’s why they allowed the forerunners to defeat them 10 million years ago, that’s why they lost to the prehistoric humans, that why they allowed the forerunners to fire the Halos even though they could have easily disabled them and that’s why they lost to the UNSC. That’s because they can’t die and their major trolls. They probably can survive the heat death of the universe if they wanted to. And they test people and scale their forms to match the level of the test. Which is why the forerunners were able to defeat the Precursors 10 million years ago. Which is why the prehistoric humans and the UNSC got the scaled down pussy flood and the forerunners with their vastly more powerful civilization got the god mode flood. So the flood/Precursors in Halo 5/6 can be easily explained to be testing the UNSC to see if their worthy of the mantle and scaling their power level to match them.
    -
    Why is the flood being some kind of gigantic threat so stupid? I like it, adds a lovecraftian vide to a otherwise generic sci-fi universe. If you pass their test the flood/Precursors would allow you to live until the next test which could be a million years down the line. Adds a interesting twist to the whole and they lived happily ever after we see in most forms of media.
    -
    Also fuck you. Bear is great, don’t compare him to Karen Travis. And as I said before all of the uber races have plot written in to prevent them form destroying the UNSC. Only a single forerunner wants to destroy the UNSC and has his wife and the rest of the forerunners race actively trying to cockblock him every step of the way. Precursors are massive trolls that allow themselves to be defeated and scale their powerlevel to the enemy that they are fighting.
    -
    Also fuck you again. Before Bear, all I could read was whining about how the forerunners could have lost against fungus that could be defeated with shotguns. Now that Bear with successfully filled in that plot hole all I can read is whining? Another common complain is the fact that Halo is another generic sci-fi universe with Humans=good, Aliens=bad, good guys humans shoot bad guys aliens with guns. Bear has with his forerunner saga added a layer of intriguing backstory and emotion to the Halo universe making it more than just a generic sci-fi universe(if you’re willing to dig deeper that is) and all I can read is whining about how Bear has ruined Halo?

  6. IamTaco March 20, 2013 at 3:23 am -      #4506

    ‘String 37
    Life Shaper – Erde-Tyrene

    … [ context - Forthencho and 2 of his warrior appear before the Librarian -- sent by the gravemind to deliver a message] …

    They gather around me. I am at once touched and horrified. They will indeed die soon. Such is the cruelty of the Composer; such is the barbarity of the Flood.

    “This we were told by the Gravemind, the greatest of them, who has consumed ten thousand planets and brought entire galaxies to an end. This we were told…”

    His warriors kneel at my feet, and i wither inside with shame as I recognize that, through their imprinted bodies, they look upon me as a last and redeeming vision, regard my face as equal to that of their own mothers, a face their descendants will see at birth and in all their deepest dreams….

    “You are my children,” I whisper, and they respond in many tongues. I am ready now. I know they will not lie to me. They will tell me what they were told, and I will know the truth of it, or not. “I listen, Forthencho.”

    He struggles to give voice to so many alien thoughts — in the language he knows, using words he’s familiar with. “The Precursors lived in many shapes, flesh and spirit, primitive and advanced, spacefaring and locked to their worlds … Evolved over and over again, died away, were reborn, explored, and seeded many galaxies … This i was told. I understand little.

    “We are your children, Librarian. But we are also their children. And what they learned across many billions of years ago they stored in this galaxy. We do not know where. The Gravemind tells us something impossible to understand — that most of what has been gathered comes from before there were stars. We do not believe in such a time, but the Mind insists … The life-patterns and living wisdom of a hundred billion years.

    “They tell me the immense field projected by this reserve is known to Forerunners, was once accessed by them. Is that so, Librarian?”

    The Domain! I tell myself. He is describing the Domain. Could that possibly be true? The Domain was created by Precursors?

    Forthencho’s Warriors clamor hoarsely. Their decaying hands reach out to stroke my armor, touch me directly, touch my flesh. I do not withdraw. I reach out to the crumbling cheek of the Lord of Admirals.

    “I’m listening,” I tell him.

    “The Gravemind no more understands the whole truth than we do. It is past all our understanding, from the greatest to the smallest. This reserve was wrapped in Precursor architecture, protected for many billions of years. Out there.” He lifs his arms and points to the bright blue sky. “Perhaps if there were enough time, we could find it. But when the Halos are fired, not only will sentient life across the galaxy vanish, but all that knowledge will vanish as well. The greatest treasure of all will be destroyed.”

    The Organon! The Domain is the Organon!

    A wonderful truth, about to be turned by Forerunners into an awful truth. And not far away, outside this circle, Catalog is listening to this accusation, their testimony regarding what may be the greatest crime of all.

    If the Halos fire, we will kill our own soul!’
    -
    ‘ While left in exile he was absorbed into a Gravemind, who willingly returned him to Faber with the newly formed persona of a galactic hero that would conveniently snap at the nearest moment of opportunity, turning him into a Flood conduit so that he could break the morale of the surviving council by virtue of being too close. In fact the Promethean Knights were merely a Precursor plot to drive the rest of the galaxy insane, by taking their White Knight and turning him into a monster bent on eradicating all life in the galaxy (apparently they were fans of the Joker). In his perverted mind the Mantle only exists to serve the Forerunners, and that the only way to preserve it is to wipe out everything else in the universe.

    The worst part? Forerunners imprisoned in Cryptums spend the entire time awake, and thus rely upon the Domain to keep their minds occupied as they meditate. The Librarian only learned of the true nature of the Domain at the last second prior to getting hit by the pulse, and was reminded by the ever trolling Flood that her husband would be locked away, immortal to the effects of time, without the company of the Domain thanks to use of the Halo array.

    The Ur-Didact spent 102,557 years in solitary confinement, entirely awake, and alone with his thoughts. No wonder he was a bit cranky. ‘
    -
    So the Librarian wanted the Ur-Didact to rest and recover from his madness by using the Domain as some sort of mediation. So at the end of it, he would come and help the humans. They state that in Halo. Only the Domain was destroyed and the Ur-Didact was driven into greater madness as a result. So, no the Ur-Didact was the only one of his kind who wanted the humans dead, the rest of the forerunners still alive want to protect the humans. And the Promethean Knights are a Precursor plot that the Ur-Didact only uses cause he’s insane and got mind-raped by the flood/Precursors. There’s no reason to believe the Precursors didn’t purposely nerf the Promethean Knights to so to troll the Ur-Didact more by making him believe that they are superior to modern forerunner forces when they are clearly not, while the Ur-Didact actually believed that they could save the galaxy from the flood.
    -
    ‘I’m sorry, THAT was due to the Librarian sneaking them in at the last second.’
    -
    The stupid. It hurts.
    -
    ‘Don’t be telling me 343i isn’t retconing stuff when they clearly are.’
    -
    Retconing stuff isn’t bad. Especially is the stuff is good. Like it is in the case of the forerunner saga.

  7. IamTaco March 20, 2013 at 5:07 am -      #4507

    ‘Uh huh… and that is why it was almost completely invulnerable AND he was imprisoned in full combat gear AND he was guarded BY HIS OWN PERSONAL ARMY.’
    -
    There’s a huge difference between the Ur-Didact’s personal amour and his weak-ass army and a 44km warship.
    Kinda like how we give solders a gun and body amour but not our nuclear access codes.

  8. OriginalA March 20, 2013 at 10:25 am -      #4508

    “Why is the flood being some kind of gigantic threat so stupid? ”
    -
    Which were marginally successfully held off by:
    -
    “There’s a huge difference between the Ur-Didact’s personal amour and his weak-ass army and a 44km warship.”
    -
    That is stupid.
    -
    lovecraftian horrors are now defeatable by troops that can fall to 7.62 NATO? WTF
    -
    The impression that I’ve gotten from everything that I know about the Forerunner novels is that the Flood are now unbeatable, by any means. The only reason why they haven’t destroyed everything is by simple not wanting to. And that is terrible. Bear has taken the opposing faction and has swung it too far to the other side and has turned it into an out of context problem.
    -
    Oh, and the reason why it is an out of context problem is because it can come back at any second that it wants to but it won’t because it just wanted to take a shit on the Forerunners and that was it. And the reason I know that the Forerunners are going to get hit by nerfs when they appear in the games is because the UNSC has to stand a chance against them, and they don’t measure up to jack shit against Bear’s Forerunners. So the only way the UNSC is going to stand a chance is if they are either incompetent or incapable. That means nerfs. The UNSC won’t get buffed enough to make a difference because they have already gained a buff that took several inuniverse years to get and it amounted to the fact that their ships are now on-par with Covenant ships, which also amount to jack shit compared to Bear’s Forerunners.
    -
    Oh, and get this, with the way the Forerunners are depicted, they no longer fit in their own technological tier group that they themselves have assigned themselves. According to their tech tiers, Forerunners are tier 1 and Precursors are tier 0, yet the Forerunners as depicted in Bear’s novels are arguably tier 0 and now the Flood are like, tier -1.
    -
    And, since you missed it the first time, I DID NOT CRITICIZE BEAR’S ABILITY TO WRITE! I DID NOT SAY HE WAS A BAD AUTHOR!
    -
    I said that he made an out of context problem. He didn’t keep things within the realm of the established universe. Frankly, that broke my suspension of disbelief like a twig. I’m supposed to believe that this malevolent force of unstoppable power is defeatable because it wants to be? Why the FUCK does it have a sense of fair play? It’s using the kiddy gloves because lulz?
    -
    FUCK THAT!
    -
    If you are going to write a lovecraftian horror than get it right! Those that are eldritch don’t have a sense of fair play; they do as they please at the expense of everyone else. That’s the point of those kinds of enemies. It is the futility of the struggle. Yet this one can be defeated because lulz and can come back because lulz. That’s just fucking lazy.
    -
    Give me the Travisty any day. She at least didn’t confuse her generic sci-fi story for the cthulu mythos.

  9. UnauditedCloud March 20, 2013 at 10:39 am -      #4509

    @Virgil: my bad, I meant Halo: Evolution.

  10. UnauditedCloud March 20, 2013 at 10:58 am -      #4510

    The biggest thing I have with ME is it’s based on circular logic “X piece of techno-babble functions because of unknown space element Y which works because undiscovered law of physics z”

  11. IamTaco March 20, 2013 at 12:02 pm -      #4511

    ‘lovecraftian horrors are now defeatable by troops that can fall to 7.62 NATO? WTF’
    -
    I won’t deny that the 7.62 NATO is stupid however as said before the flood/Precursors scale themselves to avoid instantly stomp whatever race they fighting at the time. This is done to sweeten the experience for them, of a race desperately trying to stop/fight them. Clinging onto the hope that they can indeed fight them instead of you know god-mode Precursors instantly wiping them out in a few seconds.
    -
    ‘That is stupid.’
    -
    Why???
    -
    ‘Oh, and the reason why it is an out of context problem is because it can come back at any second that it wants to but it won’t because it just wanted to take a shit on the Forerunners and that was it. And the reason I know that the Forerunners are going to get hit by nerfs when they appear in the games is because the UNSC has to stand a chance against them, and they don’t measure up to jack shit against Bear’s Forerunners. So the only way the UNSC is going to stand a chance is if they are either incompetent or incapable. That means nerfs. The UNSC won’t get buffed enough to make a difference because they have already gained a buff that took several inuniverse years to get and it amounted to the fact that their ships are now on-par with Covenant ships, which also amount to jack shit compared to Bear’s Forerunners.’
    -
    Do you read? One guy wants to kill the humans. Not the entire forerunner race, a singular forerunners wishes to kill the humans. The rest of the surviving forerunners want to help the humans. And the fact that at the end of Spartan ops, the librarian literally hands them the driver keys to every single piece of forerunner tech in the galaxy. As in now the UNSC can pilot actual forerunner ships instead of shitty knock-offs. 343i doesn’t need to nerf anything if they play it smart. Of course, a transition from a written media to a game will probably nerf them a little due to biggatons being cut because of visual problems.
    -
    ‘I said that he made an out of context problem. He didn’t keep things within the realm of the established universe. Frankly, that broke my suspension of disbelief like a twig. I’m supposed to believe that this malevolent force of unstoppable power is defeatable because it wants to be? Why the FUCK does it have a sense of fair play? It’s using the kiddy gloves because lulz?’
    -
    For one thing the flood/Precursors are stated to be god-like beings older than the universe. Beyond human compression. So who are you to question it’s actions and motives? It’s reasons for doing so could be beyond human compression. It could be doing so because it’s bored, it could be wanting to harvest us and wanting us to survive for the harvest to continue, it could be because it enjoys seeing it’s enemies basking in the glory of victory and then back stabbing them when they least expect it. It could be doing this for any number of reasons, like one would expect for a god-like being.
    -
    ‘If you are going to write a lovecraftian horror than get it right! Those that are eldritch don’t have a sense of fair play; they do as they please at the expense of everyone else. That’s the point of those kinds of enemies. It is the futility of the struggle. Yet this one can be defeated because lulz and can come back because lulz. That’s just fucking lazy.’
    -
    Which is worse? A enemy so powerful that you know that you can’t defeat him? That your best option is to give up and commit suicide? Or an enemy whom you can barely beat, at a terrible expense but it gives you hope, a light at the end of the rainbow. That if you send more men to their death, if you try hard enough, that eventually you have a shot at beating him. And you did, after years and years and millions of deaths, you finally managed to beat him. And at the victory party while you’re tea bagging the enemy’s corpse, he comes back, in a different form and brutally slaughters you and tells you. That this cycle will continue forever until the end of time, that you will rise up and barely, at a terrible expense defeat and earn a time of rest until the next cycle . And that your enemy feeds on this, on your hope and futile struggle and finds it sweet. And you can’t defeat him no matter that you do. That is the flood/Precursors in a nutshell and it’s damm scary then your version of a lovecraftian horror.
    -
    ‘Those that are eldritch don’t have a sense of fair play; they do as they please at the expense of everyone else’
    -
    That’s is also the flood/Precursors in a nutshell.
    -
    ‘She at least didn’t confuse her generic sci-fi story for the cthulu mythos.’
    -
    Problem? I though that you didn’t like Halo just being a ‘generic sci-fi story’. Who cares anyway. Once you pass their test the flood/Precursors leave you alone for a long ass time anyway. The forerunners got 10 million years of total rest and partying. And once you pass their next test they also allow you live. The problem exists for every single universe anyway. Be it sci-fi or fantasy.

  12. SgCombine March 20, 2013 at 3:44 pm -      #4512

    I DID NOT CRITICIZE BEAR’S ABILITY TO WRITE! I DID NOT SAY HE WAS A BAD AUTHOR!
    -
    Give me the Travisty any day.
    -
    Sounds like you’re butthurt the Forerunners and Flood got an upgrade.
    -
    She at least didn’t confuse her generic sci-fi story for the cthulu mythos.
    -
    Noooo, of course not, she just confuses important main characters for Nazis and makes everyone that isn’t part of her A-Team a bunch of fucking sniveling morons >.>
    Also if you don’t agree with her bias propaganda bullshit then you too are a motherfucking Nazi.

  13. Zazax March 20, 2013 at 5:12 pm -      #4513

    “The biggest thing I have with ME is it’s based on circular logic “X piece of techno-babble functions because of unknown space element Y which works because undiscovered law of physics z””
    That’s not circular logic at all. That’s standard sci-fi.
    Circular logic is stuff like “I’m the boss because I’m right, and I’m right because I’m the boss”.

  14. UnauditedCloud March 20, 2013 at 9:49 pm -      #4514

    …So pretty much the Citadel A.I

  15. OriginalA March 20, 2013 at 10:27 pm -      #4515

    “Sounds like you’re butthurt the Forerunners and Flood got an upgrade.”
    -
    I’m pissed off that the Forerunner and the Flood were not kept consistent with the previous acknowledged facts about them. Tier 0 civilizations were supposed to be intergalactic, and Tier 1 civilizations were supposed to be confined within a galaxy. The Forerunners were, by their own admission, a Tier 1 civilization. … And yet they are now capable of advancing evolution at will as well as intergalactic travel. BY THEIR OWN RECORDS THAT SHOULD MAKE THEM TIER 0!
    -
    The Flood were originally an extra-galactic threat. Now they are an extra-reality threat. That context shift if completely unnecessary.
    -
    Also, don’t get me wrong about Travisty. Her characterizations are awful.
    -
    I’m pissed off by the fact that the Forerunner novels threw out so much previously established canon in favor of this wankfest that does nothing more than to satisfy the need for a mutual masturbatory circle jerk for all those fanboys that were pissed off about the fact that Halo got retcon’ed out of their biggatons. I would wager that Greg Bear was one of them.
    -
    I can at least believe that Travisty’s *shudder* “works” can fit into the Haloverse. Bear’s does not. It is out of place and it breaks my suspension of disbelief. The moment that is broken then you have lost the audience because of the eight deadly words: I don’t care what happens to these people.
    -
    Again, since you seemed to have missed it the first two times: Greg Bear is a good author on a technical level. Unfortunately his works within the Haloverse do not fit the setting. They are out of context within that universe. If he wrote the same books and just changed the proper nouns around to have it make sense and not related to Halo I would have no argument at all against it. But because his books are set within Halo, concerning things that have preestablished limits and definitions, and his works do not fall in line with that…. That pisses me off. It is a retcon of the worst kind; the kind that just disregards with careless abandon the previously established lore. It. Does. Not. Fit. In.

  16. Zazax March 20, 2013 at 10:49 pm -      #4516

    “…So pretty much the Citadel A.I”
    My personal (immense) dislike for ME3′s ending aside, the Crucible’s argument does actually make sense if you see things from its point of view. It believes that, even as it’s wiping out all sufficiently advanced life, it is preserving it forever. Remember, the Reapers take the species they deem worthy and ‘preserve’ them by making said species into Reapers. We also know from one of the endings (Synthesis, I think?) that the Reapers retain all the ancient knowledge and history of the races they’re made up from.
    In a really sick and twisted way, the Crucible and Reapers *are* preserving organic life forever. Just not in a way that organic life would willingly go along with.

  17. SgCombine March 20, 2013 at 11:33 pm -      #4517

    “to satisfy the need for a mutual masturbatory circle jerk for all those fanboys that were pissed off about the fact that Halo got retcon’ed out of their biggatons.”
    -
    So what are you gonna do, bunker down and wait until they drop another nerf bomb?
    -
    Honestly I didn’t even think of it as Halo when I read the Forerunner saga, maybe that’s why I enjoyed it so much without suspending my belief *shrug* You’re right though, if you take Halo out of the title, and maybe change the name of a few races and BAM, it’s like a completely different series, still I enjoyed it immensely. Course the only other recent Halo novel series is coming from… Traviss and I harbor a great hatred for Traviss and the majority of her crap, especially her treatment of the Sangheili, ugh.

  18. TheSorrow March 20, 2013 at 11:51 pm -      #4518

    You are right about that Combine as is OriginalA. It really did not feel like it was apart of the Halo lore. Still interesting nonetheless, but I really didn’t feel a connection.

  19. erickyboo March 21, 2013 at 1:24 am -      #4519

    … …
    By the precise words it gives, then the galactic empire would be tier 0… The unsc can make sentient AI’s… Don’t take the technological tier scale word by word in stone… And are you sure you’re not confusing other tier systems? Because it seems like you are. There is a tier system that goes planet, solar system, galaxy, extra galactic I think? That’s not halo’s.

    And context implied no weapons? They never stated, the halos are purely defenseless… No Retcon…
    Really… What retcons? What are you even talking about? Is it that the forerunners and precursors aren’t going the way you want them to be?

    The knights are capable of being taken down yes… Other sentinels as well… These are hardly the most powerful constructs, just hyper specialized in the knight form.

    You guys are complaining about silentium and all in that way? You guys are the first I’ve seen… Halo is such a rich and big universe. It’s amazing… So many diverse things. It felt connected to me, specially when they resolved certain things.

    I like glasslands and the Thursday war…

    You guys are…

    It’s like, if it’s not your way then it shouldn’t be real, something like that.

    Psh…

    Victory.

  20. OriginalA March 21, 2013 at 1:46 am -      #4520

    halo.wikia.com/wiki/Technological_Achievement_Tiers
    -
    Those are the tiers I’m talking about. Forerunners qualify for Tier 0 despite not including themselves within it.
    -
    And, yeah, that is Halo’s specific inuniverse tier system. It is the Forerunner’s tier system; they made it.

  21. Mr. happy March 21, 2013 at 8:06 am -      #4521

    tier 0 is for reality benders who can make(mostly) indestructible materials(if i’m not wrong as it stated with achievements greater than forerunners) ,which forerunners are not capable of doing.
    -
    If the precursors fought the forerunners with full power(they deliberately lost according to previous post) even the forerunners are screwed.
    -
    Silentium wont be out here till the 28th!!! Arghhh, wasted my time going to Times today instead of going straight home….

  22. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 21, 2013 at 8:18 am -      #4522

    Funny enough I had a debate with a guy that said the Books didn’t add anything to the Halo universe. At first I simply couldn’t respond.
    -
    Traviss writes for Halo now? How did they pry her away from the Mandalorians?

  23. Mr. happy March 21, 2013 at 9:19 am -      #4523

    so it’s like how the comics do not relate to the movies? could he be thinking like that? a total different timeline?

  24. SgCombine March 21, 2013 at 9:52 am -      #4524

    @G-B
    She wrote Glassland and The Thursday War as well as the short story Human Weakness. And I thought her sw work was deemed non canon for how fucking horribly inaccurate it was, just like her Halo novels.

  25. TheSorrow March 21, 2013 at 9:56 am -      #4525

    You guys are complaining about silentium and all in that way? You guys are the first I’ve seen… Halo is such a rich and big universe. It’s amazing… So many diverse things. It felt connected to me, specially when they resolved certain things.
    -
    As a standalone, the Forerunner trilogy does fine, but when into context with the rest of universe however… It just doesn’t do it for me.

  26. TheSorrow March 21, 2013 at 9:58 am -      #4526

    *put into context

  27. TheSorrow March 21, 2013 at 10:36 am -      #4527

    I think they were better off being dead and just leaving stuff behind for us to figure out on our own.

  28. BC March 22, 2013 at 12:36 am -      #4528

    “ Honestly I didn’t even think of it as Halo when I read the Forerunner saga, maybe that’s why I enjoyed it so much without suspending my belief *shrug* You’re right though, if you take Halo out of the title, and maybe change the name of a few races and BAM, it’s like a completely different series, still I enjoyed it immensely. Course the only other recent Halo novel series is coming from… Traviss and I harbor a great hatred for Traviss and the majority of her crap, especially her treatment of the Sangheili, ugh. “
    -
    Traviss is considered a very good military author; it makes me wonder exactly how unrealistic the Halo military is that her style is so incompatible with it. She also tends to go for more down and dirty intrigue and character based writing instead of grand Tolkien style save the world/universe/whatever epic events stuff which I get the feeling would not appeal to Halo fans much. I know that if she did Star Trek it would be unrecognizable to the B&B (or worse yet Abrams) fans because of the totally unrealistic idea of military structure and culture that paramount has, though it would most likely appeal to TOS fans for example.
    -
    Mass Effect would probably not prove to be so incompatible though it has plenty of its own oddities too.

  29. Zazax March 22, 2013 at 1:24 am -      #4529

    “instead of grand Tolkien style save the world/universe/whatever epic events stuff which I get the feeling would not appeal to Halo fans much.”
    Er, isn’t this pretty much the plot of the original trilogy? “Oh no, you need to save the universe from the Covenant/Flood/Halo Rings/whatever or else absolutely everyone is going to die”? Why would Halo fans not like something that both started and continues to make up the majority of their franchise?
    Especially compared with any kind of intrigue, which is completely nonexistent in the games and only manifests elsewhere when ONI or sometimes Halsey is involved. And as the reaction to Halo 4 proved, the fans who read the books are the minority.

  30. BC March 22, 2013 at 2:29 am -      #4530

    ” “instead of grand Tolkien style save the world/universe/whatever epic events stuff which I get the feeling would not appeal to Halo fans much.”
    Er, isn’t this pretty much the plot of the original trilogy? “Oh no, you need to save the universe from the Covenant/Flood/Halo Rings/whatever or else absolutely everyone is going to die”? Why would Halo fans not like something that both started and continues to make up the majority of their franchise?
    Especially compared with any kind of intrigue, which is completely nonexistent in the games and only manifests elsewhere when ONI or sometimes Halsey is involved. And as the reaction to Halo 4 proved, the fans who read the books are the minority.”
    -
    I must have worded that badly; I meant that the Halo fans probably would not like the lower key, more down to earth stuff Traviss writes, not that they would not like the epic style stuff that the other authors (Bear in particular) seem to like to write.

  31. Zazax March 22, 2013 at 2:58 am -      #4531

    Ah, I see. My mistake then.

  32. OriginalA March 22, 2013 at 4:11 am -      #4532

    “tier 0 is for reality benders who can make(mostly) indestructible materials(if i’m not wrong as it stated with achievements greater than forerunners) ,which forerunners are not capable of doing.”
    -
    You are either wrong or right depending on how you look at the situation.
    -
    Technically, you are correct. By the current definition Tier 0 > Forerunner ergo whatever the Precursors built is Tier 0.
    -
    However, before the Forerunner novels were made, Tier 0 was just intergalactic travel and accelerating evolution. … As of Halo 4 the Forerunners are shown that they can do that.
    -
    343i’s version of the Forerunners have them at tier 0 when the tier list is defined by Bungie’s forerunner’s. That’s sloppy writing and a messy retcon. That is not a good thing.
    -
    @G-B: “Traviss writes for Halo now? How did they pry her away from the Mandalorians?”
    -
    Travisty got kicked out of the Star Wars club. Or more precisely, inteligent writers kept retconing her work because she did stupid things like “3 millions clones total in the clone wars”. She left because she got tired of people fixing her mess.
    -
    The better question is how they got her away from Gears of War, which she also writes for and is a huge fan of.
    -
    BC said:
    “Traviss is considered a very good military author; it makes me wonder exactly how unrealistic the Halo military is that her style is so incompatible with it. ”
    -
    And I’m utterly stumped by this entire sentence. She’s GOOD at something?! That said, Halo’s military has always been hilariously detached from modern tactics. The Covies use Civil War era tactics. UNSC use a mix of Civil War era and WWI-WWII era tactics, with a mix of hollywood action hero heroics thrown in for good measure. Think about what a modern force would do against forces from those eras and you get a pretty good idea of how silly Halo military tactics are. In one of the early Halo books (The Flood IIRC, which covers the events of Halo1), the UNSC uses an infantry square against a bunch of Ghosts. … the only reason why they didn’t get slaughtered is because 1) they were on a hill, and 2) the Ghosts couldn’t angle their weapons because the author screwed up and didn’t realize that they are supposed to be able to angle their weapons. … So basically the hill stopped the Ghosts so the UNSC being in an infantry square was pointless and just added to the silliness of the entire scene. ‘Twas hilarious!
    -
    I would love to see UNSC troops go up against Royal Manticorian Marines. Those guys would murder the fuck out them with a hilariously high k/d ratio.

  33. Kytheros March 22, 2013 at 4:39 am -      #4533

    Oi! Take that back, son.
    -
    OriginalA, the RMMC would have zero deaths, as (a) their battle armor would essentially ignore everything in the standard UNSCMC’s infantry armory, (b) the RMMC liberally employs stealthed reconnaissance drones, (c) the RMMC would employ actual tactics (and utilize the data from their recon drones), (d) the RMMC’s small arms are sufficient to one-shot both Scorpions and Spartans, and (e) their vehicles and heavy weapons outclass anything and everything available to the UNSC’s ground forces (this is, to an extent, powerscaling based off of Solarian and/or obsolete Honorverse ground vehicles).
    And, of course, the RMN would have kicked the UNSC fleet out of local space, providing the RMMC with precision orbital fire support.

  34. OriginalA March 22, 2013 at 5:17 am -      #4534

    Umm… K/D ratios that are like 70+/0 are hilarious.
    -
    I’m pretty sure that the UNSC MC packs anti-tank weapons. That should be able to at least threaten power armored marines. They wouldn’t be able to ignore those. The people wielding them simply become the first to die.
    -
    I’m not too sure small arms could one-shot a Scorpion. Heavy fire would probably mission kill it pretty quickly though. Heavy weapons is just plain mean.
    -
    And, yeah, actual tactics. I forget which book it was in, but it was the one where Abigail Hearns lead a bunch of marines in a fleeing-fight against a ton of pirates. Oh that was a slaughter; YOU DO NOT CHARGE MODERN INFANTRY THAT ARE IN A DUG IN POSITION! Yeah, I imagin that any fight against the UNSC marine corps and the RMMC would end up like that… but even more favorable for the RMMC, and that’s even if the UNSC MC have vehicle support and the RMMC does not.
    -
    And, probably by the same type of unintentional implication that you saw in my post, the RMN would not “have kicked” the UNSC fleet out of local space; they would have had obliterated them from several light seconds away and then moved into orbit. The way you say it makes it seem like there would be some UNSC ships left after the RMN arrived.

  35. Kytheros March 22, 2013 at 5:52 am -      #4535

    I realize that the UNSC has anti-tank weapons … however, I also realize that those anti-tank weapons are rather obvious and noticeable, and therefore, the RMMC’s recon drones would have them spotted, and those carrying/operating them would die long before they realized that they were in somebody’s weapon range.
    Oh, right, weapon ranges … vastly in the RMMC’s favor.
    -
    IIRC, the RMMC’s definition of ‘small arms’ includes weapons such as the tribarrel, their plasma rifles/carbines, and grenade launchers. Remember, Tremaine (Navy) was rated fairly highly with the “plasma carbine” and was toting one around on Blackbird. And that pulser darts come in the explosive flavor
    So … yes, RMMC small arms can take Scorpions, although yeah, pulsers and tribarrels would likely need a period of sustained fire, and/or a golden BB type shot.
    Yes, RMMC heavy weapons are brutal.
    -
    That ground op of Abigal’s was in the short story Service of the Sword. It was her first appearance in the series. The pirates were also getting some air support, albeit relatively poorly utilized.
    Please, the only reason the RMMC wouldn’t have vehicle support and aerial superiority is if they decided to not show up. Besides, any UNSC vehicles wouldn’t last long at all.
    -
    It is theoretically possible that some bright UNSC shiphandler (yes, I know, I know) could slipspace jump away to the other side of the system or elsewhere before his ship got obliterated, depending on orbital position and engagement geometry, and therefore his ship would still exist. Likely, no, technically achievable, yes. Of course, said shiphandler would doubtless get shot for cowardice or charged with treason afterwards, but, y’know, still within the laws of physics.
    Ah, by light seconds, I believe you meant “light minutes”.

  36. OriginalA March 22, 2013 at 6:32 am -      #4536

    Right, so we are in agreement except for some very small semantically issues.
    -
    For some reason, and I’m not sure why, I keep thinking that heavy weapons can be hand carried. Yeah… I was thinking that the Tri-barrel and the plasma carbine were heavy weapons. Lol! Point conceded.
    -
    Actual heavy weapons just … uhg… I guess if they wanted to destroy a base or something.
    -
    I agree that the RMMC would have vehicle support in any regular deployment. This being BankGambling, that doesn’t have to happen, and the UNSC would require any edge on the ground against the RMMC. But, yeah, it wouldn’t really make a difference.
    -
    Was it light minutes for the ranges? If so then I have to challenge your claim that a UNSC ship would get away. UNSC FTL sensors only progress out a few light seconds. RMN ships could easily launch their missiles from a rediculous range, bring them up to .9c, shut down their wedges, coast the missiles in, light up the last wedge within the last few seconds of run up time, and then detonate at a range that the UNSC still classifies as outside viable combat range. Yeah, they wouldn’t even see the missiles coming at all.
    -
    Then again, UNSC captain are able to make their ships do things that are technically and physically impossible for the ship to do, so maybe you have a point there too. (god damn you Keyes Loop)

  37. VunderGuy March 22, 2013 at 6:34 am -      #4537

    Does anyone know where the admin’s at for that FP Award for Halo? This argument’s been raging for well over a year already and really needs to be over already so that we can all move on to more important things, like GDI vs. The United States from Call of Duty: Black Ops 2.

  38. VunderGuy March 22, 2013 at 6:43 am -      #4538

    @OriginalA

    “…physically impossible”

    Me: Hahahaha! One word: Element Zero and Biotics. So…yeah. No one here says the words physically impossible unless your gonna bring in BOTH of these series.

    Also, don’t forget that the firepower for the big Halo Universe ships (especially the covenant with their famed use of d.e.w.s) general outclass their equivalents in the drydocks of the races that adhere to the Citadel have travel that doesn’t rely on a network designed by a bunch of 2 kilometer long maximum AI’s people seriously overestimate because of how they were portrayed in the games.

    Then again, I don’t even know if the Reapers could even be used. What were the rules again? Like I said, I haven’t been in this debate for over a year now.

  39. Kytheros March 22, 2013 at 6:59 am -      #4539

    Effective energy range is light seconds. Missile ranges vary depending on type of missile used and who made it.
    With Manticoran tech levels, a single (extended) drive missile’s powered endurance, I believe, is on the order of a minute or more … I don’t really remember, because those are getting phased out.
    With MDMs, the only limit on effective range is one’s fire control … and between Apollo and Ghost Rider, they extended their effective fire control range by a factor of 64, although technically, the Apollo missile’s FTL links are limited to about five light minutes or so, if memory serves.
    -
    At any rate, while I don’t really respect the UNSC’s space warfare capabilities, I think that even they would probably notice a RMN missile swarm on their lightspeed sensor systems. Of course, the missiles would be coming in pretty much right behind the detection, but, y’know, probably enough time for the AIs to notice, but they still wouldn’t be able to do anything about them.
    -
    At any rate, the RMN’s missiles would clear any ships and/or stations that were on their side of the planet. I assume that after the opening salvo obliterated all UNSC spaceborne assets orbiting the planet and in line of sight to the RMN, that even a UNSC shiphandler would stay on the far side and thus be shielded by the planet. Of course, then the LACs would get to play tag, and it is remotely possible that some of the surviving UNSC units might successfully jump out before the LACs cleared the planet.
    Note, the survival and escape of any UNSC ships requires them to jump out before they start actively taking fire.
    -
    -
    He meant technically and physically impossible for the ships by the in-universe rules and their stated capacities.
    Barring explicit statements, effects, and exceptions to the contrary, it is generally assumed that fictional universes follow the same basic physics as the real world, albeit with the attendant exceptions, such as the Mass Effect and eezo, but are internally consistent.
    The Keyes Loop can never be redeemed. Of course, it is handy for those opposing the Haloverse in space combat.

  40. Kytheros March 22, 2013 at 7:08 am -      #4540

    Reapers are still around in three of the possible four endings of ME3.
    Option 1: you chicken out, don’t activate the Crucible and the Reapers win. Third most powerful ending, but it’s largely just the Reapers.
    Option 2: you take the control option and Shepard becomes the Reapers. Probably the second most powerful ending – definitely the most powerful option for current incarnation Shepard.
    Option 3: you go for the synthesis option, and everybody gets augmented. The most powerful ending for the universe as a whole.

  41. VunderGuy March 22, 2013 at 7:18 am -      #4541

    Yeah well, at least the Haloverse doesn’t run on Phlebotonium. So, in other words, do hold any pretenses your tongue might hold, because if your honestly going to debate physics between either series, whatever soapbox any side is going to stand on is going to be set aflame, reduced to its basic atomic components, snorted, and then puked out for fertilizer.

    Also, if it works in Universe and seems to be effective in Universe, how exactly is it a tool for those opposing the Haloverse in space combat yet none of those defending the Haloverse bring up Mass Effect’s do-it-all plebetonium, and how can you defend the Mass Effect side and call yourself a decent human being for selectively choosing what would be physically impossible and what wouldn’t be for the purposes of this debate?

    And that’s why I generally tend to stay out of battles between sci-fi Universes. This selective fanboy hypocrisy crap makes me wish you were all sent to Aushwitz instead of the people that were and the speculative nature of the arguments involved is hardy for me to wrap my head around than the sheer scale of the power the Celestials possess.

    By the way, just to clear up any confusion, if every side and factions seen in both Universes were at their most powerful and brought forth EVERYTHING they had for the purposes of war through attrition OR war through complete and utter genocide, the Mass Effect Universe is buried. There’s no tap dancing around that fact. The UNSC, the Covenant, and the Forerunners (dear lord, ESPECIALLY the Forerunners. Check out their victory against the Galactic Empire to see how much of a win they are) would decimate every single planet involved with the Citadel, every single planet in the Terminus Systems, AND every single Reaper out there and use what atoms remain as fertilizer.

    But, of course, I’m sure the parameters of this match are designed so that neither Universe is at the height of their power level and/or one or both are gimped, so, the debate will carry on until the admin has the cajones to end it like the Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate or Superman vs. Goku debate.

  42. Zazax March 22, 2013 at 7:29 am -      #4542

    “Does anyone know where the admin’s at for that FP Award for Halo?”
    Looks like someone’s jumping the gun a bit.
    -
    “This argument’s been raging for well over a year already and really needs to be over already”
    You’re obviously not familiar with threads like Rand al’Thor vs Richard Rahl.
    -
    “GDI vs. The United States from Call of Duty: Black Ops 2.”
    GDI murderstomps. They toss some Tiberium at the States and just stand there laughing.
    -
    “Me: Hahahaha! One word: Element Zero and Biotics.”
    Both of which work and remain consistent within the actually detailed and discussed physics of the fictional universe they’re portrayed in.
    Not so much for Halo, which doesn’t seem to even understand how plasma works and never even tries to technobable it away (not even an equally-bad “it’s another form of plasma”).
    -
    Kytheros covered the Reapers well. They’re still around in three of the four endings.

  43. Zazax March 22, 2013 at 7:58 am -      #4543

    “Yeah well, at least the Haloverse doesn’t run on Phlebotonium.”
    *bursts out laughing*
    That’s a good one. I’ll have to remember that.
    -
    “So, in other words, do hold any pretenses your tongue might hold, because if your honestly going to debate physics between either series, whatever soapbox any side is going to stand on is going to be set aflame, reduced to its basic atomic components, snorted, and then puked out for fertilizer.”
    A) Talking about realism in any sci-fi/fantasy/etc story is stupid. Verisimilitude is the way to go. With that in mind…
    B) No, it’s not. Mass Effect goes out of its way to at least *try* to remain true to physics (barring the existence of eezo, but even that is internally consistent), but not so much with Halo.
    -
    “how can you defend the Mass Effect side and call yourself a decent human being for selectively choosing what would be physically impossible and what wouldn’t be for the purposes of this debate?”
    To say nothing of the rest of the paragraph, this is just hilarious. Simmer down, man. This is a debate, not a trial for war crimes. I’m sure we’re all decent people regardless of which side we’re on, and thinking one or the other is stupid doesn’t make you a monster.
    On that note, Halo’s physics is totally stupid.
    -
    “This selective fanboy hypocrisy crap makes me wish you were all sent to Aushwitz instead of the people that were”
    Wow, Kytheros really touched a nerve here, didn’t he?
    -
    “By the way, just to clear up any confusion, if every side and factions seen in both Universes were at their most powerful and brought forth EVERYTHING they had…”
    And this proves what, exactly?
    However, on this topic, I would *love* to see composite Halo fight just the Tau’ri from Stargate.
    -
    “Check out their victory against the Galactic Empire to see how much of a win they are”
    I assume you mean the victory that was given because someone on Team Halo went over everyone else’s heads and contacted admin while the debate was still raging? That particular award was something of a small scandal.
    -
    “But, of course, I’m sure the parameters of this match are designed so that neither Universe is at the height of their power level and/or one or both are gimped”
    It’s standard rules for every debate on the site, actually. Current incarnation. It’s boilerplate.
    -
    “Star Wars vs. Star Trek ”
    Should never have received an award. The Star Wars supporters never bothered to show up (particularly near the end, where as far as I know the only pro-SW debater was Mike, and he only loosely fits the term), the Star Trek ones were using outliers, and even if everything the ST side said was true, it’d be a stomp, and stomps don’t get awards.

  44. OriginalA March 22, 2013 at 3:18 pm -      #4544

    @ Vunderguy:
    My snippy comment about UNSC ship captains making their ships do things that are technically and physically impossible and the relation of that to the Keyes Loop is because, with all of the data from the various feats on UNSC, I can argue and give supporting evidence that the max acceration speed for a UNSC ship is below 10 meters per second, around 10000 meters per second, and somewhere around near instantly lightspeed. I can supply evidence and argue for any one of those three mutually exclusive possibilities. There are feats (most of them seen in the Keyes Loop) which require at least two of those being the correct maximum acceleration for the ship. The fact that that previous sentence seems odd (how can you have two different maximum acceleration speeds?) is because of how stupid the Keyes Loop is; either the captain is retarded or he is making his ship do something that it should not be able to do as per the technical limitations of that ship.
    -
    As for ME’s use of Eezo to explain away their breaks in physics…. A common UNSC ship has a mass consistency that is lighter than air, shoots projectiles that are a significant percentage of the ship’s total mass (and indeed the spare ammo actually out masses the ship itself), has no room within the ship for fuel despite being something like 30% engine, and flat out ignores inertia just because.
    -
    Mass Effect explains away these kinds of problems because of space magic Eezo. Halo just ignores it and pretends that nobody notices.
    -
    There is just as much space magic bullshit in Halo as there is in Mass Effect. The difference is that Mass Effect has a name for it and it is consistent across all of its depictions. In Halo it is “technology” that is only implied at best, other times it just works because plot demands it, and its effects vary on a case by case basis with no consistency.
    -
    There is a lot of stupid things in Halo that if were internally consistent, or at least looked at by a competent person in-universe, then the entire franchise would look very different.

  45. dudeisfood March 22, 2013 at 9:49 pm -      #4545

    Oh i have a fix for the flood the salarians could make a floodophage if you know what i mean.

  46. Mr. happy March 23, 2013 at 2:37 am -      #4546

    and the forerunners who were a million years more advanced couldn’t find a cure. The ancient humans found a cure and IIRC it was faked by the flood.
    -
    according to previous post,the flood are now an EXTRAREALITY threat. So what can Salarians do?

  47. OriginalA March 23, 2013 at 3:53 am -      #4547

    @dudeisfood:
    No. The Salarians had detailed knowledge about Krogan biology and it took a bunch of time in order to tailor the Genophage to that biology (although it would have taken less time if they went with a “kill ‘em all” solution).
    -
    The Flood are a different beast entirely. Just to start with the Salarians would have to study the Flood for years to get a working knowledge base on their biology. It would still take a bunch of time in order for it to take effect, and the most damning part of it all is that there is no viable distribution method.
    -
    And it doesn’t stop the Flood from coming back because the Flood can do that because of those stupid Forerunner books.

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