Halo Vs Mass Effect

Halo Vs Mass Effect

Here we have a clash of two Sci-Fi franchises looking for bragging rights. I don’t know enough about the Mass Effect universe to give a fair estimation on who would win, so I’ll leave it to the good hands of the BankGambling readers.

Who wins?

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4,522 Comments on "Halo Vs Mass Effect"

  1. Zazax February 6, 2013 at 1:38 am -      #4401

    “In this case, CIS like fear is disregarded”
    And it clarifies this where? You’re reading something in the rules that’s not there.
    -
    “Halo Installation 03- As per the design of Halos in general, each comes equipped with Flood research facilities. The UNSC already has a presence on 03, and no word has been given on the removal of the Flood there.”
    But we don’t know the extent. The various Halos have had drastically different levels of infestation, ranging from 07 that you mention below with apparently 10 Graveminds to 01 which didn’t even have one, the entire infestation of which could be contained behind one door.
    It can’t be that severe an infestation. 03′s used as a training ground, so it’s apparently considered safe enough to send recruits there. And apparently it was thought safe enough to store the Composer there.
    ‘Course it’s always possible the Flood are stuck there and the UNSC just doesn’t know about them, in which case same problem.
    -
    “Halo Installation 05- You leave it crawling with Flood back in Halo 2, and I don’t recall anyone going back to clean it up. Again, 05 is a known location.”
    05′s actually been sterilized by the Elites, via what was left of the space battle that starts unfolding while Chief’s fighting Regret. It was first mentioned in the admittedly-dubiously-canon Encyclopedia, but it’s also shown to be scorched barren in the Ring Room in Halo 3.
    *shrug*
    -
    “Installation 07- Yet another location teeming with Flood (With no less than TEN confirmed Graveminds at that), and again, a known location by the UNSC.”
    I haven’t been able to find any source anywhere for it being a known location for anyone. Can we get a source on this?
    And those ten Graveminds are either dead from starvation or timelocked. Either way they’re unusable.
    -
    “Ah, but the given examples play into CIS that revolves around physical limitations regarding inter-universe interaction”
    Doesn’t matter. The only clarification made in the rules is ‘They’re the enemy now, instead.’ Without further ruling, all other CIS is in play.
    -
    “Care to prove that? ”
    The only such poll I can find (it’s old, though) has nearly half the playerbase (45%) at 15 or younger. Only 12% is older than 20.
    -
    “Outstanding! We can find planets! Finding any old exosolar planet isn’t exactly the same as finding 700 or so specific exosolar planets as opposed to the billions of other exosolar planets out there.”
    It’s a matter of scale, though. The Covenant is entirely capable of rocketing around to any old planet in at most a few hours and seeing for themselves. And they had all the stuff to do it right from the start.
    We’ve found more in 2/3 the time, and we haven’t even left our solar system yet, even with unmanned probes (although Voyager’s supposed to finally exit by 2015. Woo!). It’s like watching two people build a computer. One guy’s a modern dude, the other’s a caveman. The caveman doing the same thing is more impressive.
    Yes, I did just compare modern humans to cavemen. Probably not the best analogy I’ve ever come up with.
    To sum up, 700 planets in 30 years is 2 planets a month. The Covenant has bullshit hax FTL. They’re sitting on their hands.
    Plus, once they find one human planet, just start checking nearby ones instead of ones on the other side of the galaxy, further limiting your pool of possible planets.
    It’s just slow for a group as advanced as the Covies.

  2. the_man_with The_Answers February 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm -      #4402

    “And it clarifies this where? You’re reading something in the rules that’s not there.”
    -
    And it says factions won’t work together based on fear where? Must have missed the part where it said that, because all I remember is that CIS is ignored in universe battles (Unless there are communication, technological, etc. reasons).
    -
    “But we don’t know the extent. The various Halos have had drastically different levels of infestation, ranging from 07 that you mention below with apparently 10 Graveminds to 01 which didn’t even have one, the entire infestation of which could be contained behind one door.
    It can’t be that severe an infestation. 03′s used as a training ground, so it’s apparently considered safe enough to send recruits there. And apparently it was thought safe enough to store the Composer there.”
    -
    04 was “safe,” yet still had plenty of Flood. All you have to do is keep the doors shut for it to be safe, but all you need to do to access the Flood is open said doors. Safety has nothing to do with how many Flood are present in the facilities (Except extreme cases, such as 07 and 05).
    -
    “I haven’t been able to find any source anywhere for it being a known location for anyone. Can we get a source on this?”
    -
    ONI are aware of its presence and have done some cursory examination on it. There are also a few Monitors there, monitoring the Flood on the ring. This information comes from one of the later pages in Primordium, I’d have to go back to the book for the actual page.
    -
    “And those ten Graveminds are either dead from starvation or timelocked. Either way they’re unusable.”
    -
    Says………….. what, exactly?
    -
    “The only such poll I can find (it’s old, though) has nearly half the playerbase (45%) at 15 or younger. Only 12% is older than 20″
    -
    You can only find one poll? I remember a few threads on Bnet where most players stated their age as typically 16 an up, with your occasional 12-or-so year old. But in both cases, I am very hesitant to believe ANY online poll or thread about people’s age.
    -
    “It’s a matter of scale, though. The Covenant is entirely capable of rocketing around to any old planet in at most a few hours and seeing for themselves. And they had all the stuff to do it right from the start.”
    -
    You do realize just how many planets exist, right? We are looking at tens of billions of exosolar planets, and the Covenant has to find 800 SPECIFIC planets, out of billions. The UNSC/Covenant hasn’t ONLY found 800 planets, that’s how many planets the UNSC lives on. If there are at least 5 planets in each system, that’s 4,000 planets. We haven’t even discussed how many other planets the UNSC may know of (as well as the Covenant). Again, the Covenant found hundreds of SPECIFIC planets out of billions, not just hundreds of planets.
    -
    Furthermore, out of our 800 or so planets we have found, only 9 of them MIGHT support humans. So really, the score should be Covenant : 700-800, Us: Maybe 9 (Some of which might not support humans). So no, the Covenant do not appear to be blindly lurking in space for Humans. Whatever their method, it seems to be very effective (I would guess an extremely advanced use of something like TCEs).
    -
    But remember, we are looking for ANY planets out of billions. The Covenant are looking for 800 specific planets out of billions.
    -
    “Plus, once they find one human planet, just start checking nearby ones instead of ones on the other side of the galaxy, further limiting your pool of possible planets.”
    -
    You do realize that “nearby” in regards to UNSC planets could span light years of distance, in which there could be thousands, even millions of planets in EVERY direction, and you are looking for a few specific ones out of that?
    Do you realize how much is in space? To sum it up, space is HUGE. And considering the Covenant’s discovery of purely human-habitable planets is about equal to our rate of finding any planets period, that’s sort of impressive (at least by RL standards.).

  3. the_man_with The_Answers February 11, 2013 at 4:17 pm -      #4403

    aaaaaannnndddd……..
    Mass Effect just got royally screwed.
    -
    The Janis Key.
    That’s like a win right there.
    -
    Turns out the Flood won’t need to be used at all, the UNSC will be having too much fun steam-rolling everything in Mass Effect.

  4. SgCombine February 11, 2013 at 9:29 pm -      #4404

    ^
    Unless of course Commander She-Hulk destroys one half of the key in her blind rage with her awesome aim skills. Seriously though, Palmer had the leader of an alien terrorist organization in her sights and whats she do? Shoot the scientist of course! Though if they actually get the other half of that key in one piece, well… a good number of the UNSC matches are certainly going to get a second visit.

  5. Draco February 11, 2013 at 10:24 pm -      #4405

    Well, perhaps they do release the flood, there’s a race they cannot infect due to no nervous system. The Krogan. Possibly a very dangerous asset against the flood due to their strength and ability to not be infected.
    -
    They run on a secondry blood flow system. I’d have to read the codex entry again buuut.
    -
    Should there be flood, they can deploy krogan to clear them out planetside. While for space battles, it would be more difficult.
    -
    Dunno what the Janis key is, so I leave it t that.

  6. Virgil February 12, 2013 at 12:27 am -      #4406

    @Draco
    -
    No nervous system? Really? You know that every mammal has a nervous system? And that Krogan are also mammals? Check out this quote: “Krogan also have a secondary nervous system…” As they have a nervous system they are susceptible to the Flood. And being that they are so strong… Great hosts for advanced combat forms.
    -
    As for the Janis Key this shows the locations of EVERY Forerunner construct in the universe. And as seen in the video there are many…
    -
    youtu.be/Ts1GFHHBRpU
    -
    This basically gives Halo access to all Forerunner weapons and technology. As of the latest Spartan Ops we have both pieces (Halo does, the UNSC has one and the Covenant the other) which gives us this. This gives Halo everything it needs, the Forerunners have incredible abilities. Enough to take on just about everything Mass Effect can throw at them.
    -
    @TheManWithTheAnswers
    -
    So are we open to bring in examples of Forerunner stuff?

  7. Draco February 12, 2013 at 12:41 am -      #4407

    @virgil
    Hey, calm yourself. I’m remembering from a codex entry from mass effect one. Their ‘nervous system’ was some sort of blood system that transferred the electricity.
    -
    I’d have to look it up again.
    -
    But wouldn’t they need time to integrate the tech into ships? Or find out what some of the stuff does. We don’t know all of what they may have access to.

  8. Draco February 12, 2013 at 12:51 am -      #4408

    @virgil
    Ok, for one. Krogan are reptillian. For two, you left out a crucial detail in that quote.
    -
    “Krogan also have a secondary nervous system using a neuroconductive FLUID.”
    -
    Not like a standard nervous system that flood can latch to.

  9. Professor ParaLowk February 12, 2013 at 12:57 am -      #4409

    “No nervous system? Really? You know that every mammal has a nervous system? And that Krogan are also mammals?”
    -
    “The krogan evolved in a lethal ecology. Over millions of years, the grim struggle to survive larger predators, virulent disease, and resource scarcity on their homeworld, Tuchanka, turned the lizards into quintessential survivors.”
    I think they are closer to reptiles but when all said and done there are pretty much an alien speices.

    Physically, the krogan are nigh-indestructible, with a tough hide impervious to any melee weapon short of a molecular blade. While they feel pain, it does not affect their ability to concentrate. They have multiple functioning examples of all major organs, and can often survive the loss of one or two of any type. Rather than a nervous system, they have an electrically conductive second circulatory system.
    So no nervous system, Draco seems to have remembered correctly.

  10. Professor ParaLowk February 12, 2013 at 1:13 am -      #4410

    I wish mass effect had done something like what there doing with spartan ops. Books and comics are nice but would’ve loved to see other parts of that universe animated.

  11. BC February 12, 2013 at 7:59 am -      #4411

    ” I wish mass effect had done something like what there doing with spartan ops. Books and comics are nice but would’ve loved to see other parts of that universe animated. ”
    -
    Actually simply giving some good examples of what the various endings would produce in the way of tech, bio, biotic and other stuff beyond the teasers in the cutscenes would have been a big improvement on what they actually did. Actually publishing books or videos would have been fantastic.

  12. the_man_with The_Answers February 12, 2013 at 4:08 pm -      #4412

    When does a nervous system matter with the Flood? They consume plants…..

  13. Draco February 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm -      #4413

    Perhaps as bio-matter when they have died. But to infect their host requires a nervous system. Which the krogan have something different from what flood usually take over. This makes the krogan un-infectable. But sufficient for bio-mass should they die.

  14. Virgil February 12, 2013 at 8:28 pm -      #4414

    @Draco
    -
    Hey, calm yourself. I’m remembering from a codex entry from mass effect one. Their ‘nervous system’ was some sort of blood system that transferred the electricity.
    -
    I’d have to look it up again.
    -
    But wouldn’t they need time to integrate the tech into ships? Or find out what some of the stuff does. We don’t know all of what they may have access to…

    -
    Sorry if I sounded annoyed, I apologize if that was condoned. It doesn’t matter if they have a liquid system or not. All that matters is that they have one. The Flood infection forms take over (They can infect by other means but this is strictly via INFECTION FORM) by using the same electrical frequency that your brain uses. It doesn’t have to be a physical wire kind of nervous system for them to take over, they just need something that used electrical signals for them to take over. As the Krogan still use electrical signals (albeit in a different way) they are not immune. And then there are the other ways the Flood infect, via air spores and touch. I’m sorry but unless the Krogan don’t breath and aren’t physical they are susceptible.
    -
    No they wouldn’t need time at all. They HAVE the technology and people who can use it. Bornstellar and his possy, the Ur-Didact and the Librarian. All are perfectly capable of using that technology.
    -
    Ok, for one. Krogan are reptillian. For two, you left out a crucial detail in that quote.
    -
    “Krogan also have a secondary nervous system using a neuroconductive FLUID.”
    -
    Not like a standard nervous system that flood can latch to.

    -
    Wow, I messed up here. Sorry about that. Yes, they are reptiles but all reptiles possess a nervous system. Even though it is a fluid it doesn’t stop Flood infection. All the Flood require (via infection form) is the electrical signals. As seen by your quote above they do possess this.
    -
    @Professor ParaLowk
    -
    “The krogan evolved in a lethal ecology. Over millions of years, the grim struggle to survive larger predators, virulent disease, and resource scarcity on their homeworld, Tuchanka, turned the lizards into quintessential survivors.”
    I think they are closer to reptiles but when all said and done there are pretty much an alien speices.

    -
    Yup sorry about that. They can still be infected though (Look above). Also it should be known that the Flood had no problem infecting species they have never encountered before. (Ex.: Brutes, grunts, jackels, etc.)
    -
    Physically, the krogan are nigh-indestructible, with a tough hide impervious to any melee weapon short of a molecular blade. While they feel pain, it does not affect their ability to concentrate. They have multiple functioning examples of all major organs, and can often survive the loss of one or two of any type. Rather than a nervous system, they have an electrically conductive second circulatory system.
    So no nervous system, Draco seems to have remembered correctly.

    -
    It is still a nervous system but is just utilized through different means. They are still able to be infected.
    -
    I wish mass effect had done something like what there doing with spartan ops. Books and comics are nice but would’ve loved to see other parts of that universe animated.
    -
    Yah, Spartan Ops is pretty good. The gameplay for the earlier ones is meh as they reuse the locations a lot but the videos are awesome.
    -
    Perhaps as bio-matter when they have died. But to infect their host requires a nervous system. Which the krogan have something different from what flood usually take over. This makes the krogan un-infectable. But sufficient for bio-mass should they die.
    -
    The Krogan still use electrical signals to transmit information and also answer this… Do they have a spine? Assuming that they are reptiles I would say that they do and then they send signals through it… Perfect place for infection if your theory was true. They just need electrical signals which the Krogan circulatory system does for them. As a result they are able to be infected and remade into something better.
    -
    @EVERYONE
    -
    Due to the Janus Key being found I am going to start bringing in quotes from the Forerunner capabilities. I do believe this blows many of Mass Effect’s things out of the water…
    -
    -
    Halo 3: Halo
    -
    343 Guilty Spark: (humming to himself) “Oh, hello! Wonderful news – the Installation is almost complete!”
    Johnson: (uninterested) “Terrific.”
    343 Guilty Spark: “Yes… isn’t it? (Short but uneasy silence) I have begun my simulations. No promises, but initial results indicate that this facility should be ready to fire…in just a few more days!”
    -
    Assuming a linear build time and zero delay in the propagation of the signal, a 10,000 km wide, 50 km thick and 318 km across installation with a volume of 497,215,714 cubic kilometers would require the construction of 71 cubic kilometers of material every second of operation. However the signal was sent over a hundred thousand years after the initiation of any construction from the forge, thus it’s reasonable to assume that some delay was involved in the intermittent period.
    -
    Halo: Cryptum; Ch. 35
    -
    The councilors turned to me, all but Glory, whose eyes barely flickered. Splendid Dust drew their attention back to the capital itself, and I forced myself to go with this particular flow, for now.
    It is with difficulty that I describe the capital as it was then, so little like anything in your experience. Imagine a planet a hundred thousand kilometers in diameter, sliced latitudinally like one of Riser’s favorite fruits. Allow those slices to drop in parallel against a plate. The slices are then pierced through their aligned lower rims with a stick, the plate is removed, and the slices are fanned out in a half-circle. Now decorate each slice, like a round stair step, with an almost infinitely dense array of structures, and surround it with a golden swarm of transports and sentinels and a dozen other varieties of security patrols, thick as fog.…
    No other world like it in the Forerunner universe.
    Here lay the center of Forerunner power and the repository of the last twenty thousand years of our history, housing the wisdom and accumulated knowledge of trillions of ancillas serving a mere hundred thousand Forerunners—mostly Builders of the highest forms and ranks.
    -
    Fourth on the list of known astroengineering efforts is the Forerunner Capital world. Described as the center of their civilization, it is the heart of their government, communications, the central hub of transport and home to trillions of AI and a mere few hundred thousand Forerunner council leaders.
    -
    “They’ve come to ask my help—or arrest me again. I think the former, and I think I know why—but Imust not help them. I’ve stayed here too long already. It’s time to leave. And all of you will come with me.”
    “Where? How?”
    My answer arrived even as I spoke. The platform was still rising. The circling pillars sprouted bulkheads, beams, and stanchions—all the necessary parts. The skeleton of a slipspace voyager was growing around us, almost too rapidly to track—until the pillars were walled in, the sky and the swirling ships vanished, and we were completely enclosed.
    Bornstellar notes the speed in which an 800 meter vessel is constructed around him, commenting that the bulkheads are being constructed so quickly that they’re proving difficult to track even for his advanced Forerunner senses.
    -
    Following the integration of a design seed, several kilometer tall pillars are formed from hard light constructs, which proceed to dismantle an entire mountain in the space of one night. The very next day hard light assemblers then transmutes the raw materials and assembles them into a usable starship with microactuator assembly units built from the same hard light.
    -
    Ghosts of Onyx; ch. 35.
    -
    A pyramid five times the height of the Great Pyramid of Giza sat kilometers from Kurt’s vantage. Instead of stone blocks, however, the structure was composed of floating golden spheres that turned and glowed with Forerunner hieroglyphs etched upon their surfaces.
    Every six seconds a sphere from the apex of the pyramid ascended in a shaft of silver light. As it rose, the light intensified so even with maximum polarization on his faceplate Kurt could not discern what occurred there. When the sphere emerged, three rods accompanied it, all parts spinning in null gravity, flexing, until the pieces settled into their deadly recognizable configuration a Sentinel of Onyx.
    -
    The new drone flew off into the clouds overhead which Kurt could only estimate were thousands of completed units.
    The rate of construction from a single factory unit located beneath Onyx operating for over a hundred thousand years without a dedicated logistical train – which had no doubt contributed to the countless trillions of Sentinels that had formed the bulk of the planet. At peak annual production this lone facility could easily produce 5,256,000 other Onyx Sentinels, a hundred such facilities could produce over 500 million units in a relatively short span of time. Fifty Onyx Sentinels combined into a single formation are capable of overwhelming the reinforced shields of a Covenant Destroyer and boring a hole clean through both sides of the hull, within the year this lone facility could construct enough Sentinels to prove to be a “pound for pound” match in firepower for over a hundred thousand large Covenant capital ships.
    -
    Halo: Cryptum; Ch. 9.
    -
    The displays tracked our course. We were moving outward along the great spiral arm that held both the Orion complex and Erde-Tyrene—just a few tens of thousands of light-years.
    Hours at most would pass for us.
    Had I known where we were fleeing, and what we would find … Against the greatest and most solemn instructions of the Mantle, I might have killed myself then and there.
    -
    Halo Cryptum; Ch. 27.
    -
    Subduing a flash of anger, I did not ask him what he might be involved in, professionally, that twenty thousand light-years away I should be treated with grim leniency by an otherwise all-powerful Master Builder.
    -
    Halo Cryptum; ch. 34.
    -
    THE PHYSICAL JOURNEY between my family’s world and the capital of the ecumene ordinarily takes less than two hours. For reasons not immediately explained to me, even traveling in the superfast Council ship, our trip took three days.
    In normal conditions the 20,000 light year journey between Bornstellar’s homeworld and the Capital would take less than two hours, this requires speeds in excess of 90 million times c, barring the additional time required to exit slipspace for particle reconciliation. At this velocity a Forerunner vessel is capable of traversing the span of the Milky Way galaxy in less than ten hours.
    -
    However this was nowhere near representative of their full capabilities. Whereas council vessels could achieve velocities just shy of a hundred million times the speed of light at the peak of their population density, Didact’s flagship (the Mantle’s Approach) could cross the gulf of space between Installation-03 and Earth in less than two minutes, a distance greater than 25,000 light years. While the actual frame of reference is inexact by a few dozen light years, this would suggest that high ranking military vessels in the absence of any kind of mass slipspace transit are capable of velocities in excess of seven billion times the speed of light. At that rate the Didact could span the diameter of the galaxy in a mere eight minutes, arrive at the Ark facility in twenty or reach the Andromeda galaxy in two and a half hours.
    -
    Now… Let’s start by addressing these shall we?

  15. the_man_with The_Answers February 12, 2013 at 8:44 pm -      #4415

    “Perhaps as bio-matter when they have died. But to infect their host requires a nervous system. Which the krogan have something different from what flood usually take over. This makes the krogan un-infectable. But sufficient for bio-mass should they die.”
    -
    Considering people in The Mona Lisa were being infected by having the Flood spread through their blood, so I imagine the blood stream that does the exact same thing as a nervous system would work just as well.
    -
    “But wouldn’t they need time to integrate the tech into ships? Or find out what some of the stuff does. We don’t know all of what they may have access to…”
    -
    #1
    Humans, as a gift from the Librarian, seem to be able to “naturally” use Forerunner technology with little issue.
    #2
    They have a fairly decent supply of self-replicating Engineers, both the “watered-down” Covenant ones, and the “Pure-Breed ones,” who can upgrade ships exceedingly fast. No doubt the Janis Key will point to the location of more.
    #3
    As Halo Wars shows, the Forerunners have left quite a few ships behind. The UNSC gets one or two? Nothing in Mass Effect will be able to stop them.
    -
    #4
    They have access to EVERYTHING. Considering the job of the Didact was to ascend humanity, and that was the key to find everything that would allow him to do so, it isn’t going to be pointing to just a few little things….
    -

  16. Virgil February 12, 2013 at 9:22 pm -      #4416

    @TheManWithTheAnswers
    -
    Has it already been proven that the Forerunners beat everything Mass Effect has or do we have to go through everything? If it has already been proven then it comes down to Halo winning.

  17. Professor ParaLowk February 12, 2013 at 9:32 pm -      #4417

    “Has it already been proven that the Forerunners beat everything Mass Effect has or do we have to go through everything?”
    -
    Pretty sure it was agreed upon by both sides early on in the debate.

  18. Virgil February 12, 2013 at 9:40 pm -      #4418

    @Professir ParaLowk
    -
    Do you think that with Forerunner tech Halo can beat Mass Effect? If so then we just need some more people to nominate Halo for the FP award. If they agree of course.

  19. Mr. happy February 12, 2013 at 10:01 pm -      #4419

    If halo gets forerunner tech no matter what it will be a stomp regardless of how many ships ME has. Even if ME have all their ships fire on a single forerunner ship at the same time,there wil be no visible damage. Hell a forerunner transport ripped off a chunk of a planet at 10 percent engine power.

  20. Virgil February 12, 2013 at 10:11 pm -      #4420

    This is about 4 people who say Halo win now… Can I nominate Halo for the FP Award now?

  21. Mr. happy February 12, 2013 at 10:20 pm -      #4421

    Um yes?

  22. Virgil February 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm -      #4422

    Okay, then I officially move for Halo to get the FP Award.

  23. erickyboo February 12, 2013 at 11:08 pm -      #4423

    Well I’d wait for episode 10…
    The Janus key…

  24. Virgil February 12, 2013 at 11:13 pm -      #4424

    @Erickyboo
    -
    They will probably end up destroying it… Even if they do do that there are still Forerunners around who know most if not all their prospective locations. The Librarian herself is still alive so the above scenario still stands.

  25. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets February 13, 2013 at 10:39 am -      #4425

    I wonder how many matches Halo wins now that they have the Janus Key. So it turns to a stomp now I take it?

  26. Virgil February 13, 2013 at 11:41 am -      #4426

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets
    -
    As per Mr. Happy referring to earlier in the debate I think that yes. Halo now stomps.

  27. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets February 13, 2013 at 8:04 pm -      #4427

    Thought so. Well thank you hax Janus Key.
    -
    So any other Halo vs *insert opposing verse here* that need some checking since they now have Forerunner tech?

  28. erickyboo February 15, 2013 at 11:35 am -      #4428

    The Janus key changes so much. Still I wonder what will happen in episode 10 of spartan ops.

  29. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets February 15, 2013 at 2:41 pm -      #4429

    @erickyboo Episode 10 already? Wow, I’m WAAAAAAAY behind on Spartan Ops then. :/
    -
    @Lowk Vi Britannia That’s an epic pic! What d’you think of some of these(way off topic, sorry):
    -
    img.gawkerassets.com/img/17m9qwzb645x6jpg/original.jpg
    -
    img.gawkerassets.com/img/17m9qwteattmujpg/original.jpg
    -
    geektyrant.com/storage/0999-post-images/EpicVideoGameMashup_3.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1358438153384
    -
    geektyrant.com/storage/0999-post-images/EpicVideoGameMashup_1.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1358437755085
    -
    geektyrant.com/storage/0999-post-images/EpicVideoGameMashup_9.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1358438263342
    -
    geektyrant.com/storage/0999-post-images/EpicVideoGameMashup_7.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1358438224984
    -
    img.gawkerassets.com/img/17m9qwzbbf7xtjpg/original.jpg
    -
    Epic huh?

  30. erickyboo February 20, 2013 at 2:37 am -      #4430

    Cool pictures! But John isn’t even wearing the right armour… They should have used his halo 4 model. Way better. Anyways, they were in a pelican in one of them!

    Pelicans are just so awesome… They are highly maneuverable. If you’ve seen and played episode 10 you’d know how good they maneuver. They feel so cozzy! There is the main room, the waiting room I guess. Ten seats, two each side but room for people standing or equipment. There is a door at the back of the room that leads to a compartment. Next to the door there is a ladder that likely leads to the cockpit. It feels so cozy… It can carry a vehicle behind, they can be equipped with slipspace drives and can be well customized by huragoks given the chance. Add anvil missile pods, there’s the canon on top, choice of frontal auto canon things/spartan laser. The one thing that feels a bit unsafe though is the lateral manned turrets. Still those riding there would be pretty awesome eh? You can put a turret in the ramp so even when you deploy troops, you open up with some nice fire. The nice hologram projector inside is nice as well. Its though enough for the job. It’s nice.

  31. El1 February 21, 2013 at 12:58 am -      #4431

    I love both games i’ve got all the Halo and Mass effect games. Take out the Reapers and forerunners and this is how i think it’ll go.( Im going by cinematic video standards where Spartans can survive a fall from orbit and Sheperd can kill a krogan in one shot with one of the weakest pistols in the game.)
    Ground- Stalemate- Spartans can take just about anything the Alliance can throw at them infantry-wise, except krogan than the elites and hunters come in, then the brutes, jackals, grunts, and marines can hold off the rest.
    Vehicles- Mass Effect- Anyone who’s played Both games know that the mako is far too agile for a scorpion/wraith and i forgot what the thing is thats in the firewalker missions but that can handle any other halo vehicle.
    Air/Space-I dont really know, ME has numbers but the Covenant pretty much has the reapers little cousin gun( Glassing tech). And the UNSC has mac tech but the turians have thanix cannons so i cant really decide how this part would turn up. Thanks for reading just wanna share my opinion on this matter not trying to make any enemies:)

  32. El1 February 21, 2013 at 12:59 am -      #4432

    I love both games i’ve got all the Halo and Mass effect games. Take out the Reapers and forerunners and this is how i think it’ll go.( Im going by cinematic video standards where Spartans can survive a fall from orbit and Sheperd can kill a krogan in one shot with one of the weakest pistols in the game.)
    Ground- Stalemate- Spartans can take just about anything the Alliance can throw at them infantry-wise, except krogan than the elites and hunters come in, then the brutes, jackals, grunts, and marines can hold off the rest.
    Vehicles- Mass Effect- Anyone who’s played Both games know that the mako is far too agile for a scorpion/wraith and i forgot what the thing is thats in the firewalker missions but that can handle any other halo vehicle.
    Air/Space-I dont really know, ME has numbers but the Covenant pretty much has the reapers little cousin gun( Glassing tech). And the UNSC has mac tech but the turians have thanix cannons so i cant really decide how this part would turn up. Thanks for reading:)

  33. Professor ParaLowk February 21, 2013 at 1:26 am -      #4433

    “Spartans can take just about anything the Alliance can throw at them”
    -
    What if it’s another spartan being thrown at them via space magic?

  34. BC February 21, 2013 at 7:46 pm -      #4434

    “ Im going by cinematic video standards where Spartans can survive a fall from orbit and Sheperd can kill a krogan in one shot with one of the weakest pistols in the game. “
    -
    Remember that the weakest pistol in Mass Effect is still a mass accelerator weapon with quite a bit more energy than the largest Halo rifle.
    -
    “ Ground- Stalemate- Spartans can take just about anything the Alliance can throw at them infantry-wise, except krogan than the elites and hunters come in, then the brutes, jackals, grunts, and marines can hold off the rest. “
    -
    Even if the mainline infantry weapons from Mass Effect cannot take out the Spartan power armor with enough hits (which I am not completely convinced of btw) they have plenty of heavy squad support weapons that can, up to a constrained nuclear bomb launcher and a black hole projector that would take a Spartan and smash him and his armor into a less than a molecule thick paste on the surface of the singularity.
    -
    “ Air/Space-I dont really know, ME has numbers but the Covenant pretty much has the reapers little cousin gun( Glassing tech). And the UNSC has mac tech but the turians have thanix cannons so i cant really decide how this part would turn up. Thanks for reading just wanna share my opinion on this matter not trying to make any enemies:) “
    -
    The relatively slow speed of the massive MAC round gives them a shorter effective range than ME’s accelerators. It is doubtful that they would many hits with MACs, the ME capital ships would be fighting from beyond effective range of them since the travel time would make evasive maneuvers by ME ships extremely effective at preventing hits. The smaller ships like frigates which have to close in would likewise be very difficult to hit since not only are the ships much more maneuverable than Halo ships they also perform maneuvers using their ME drives to project mini gravity wells to swing around which would look like physically impossible moves to the Halo ships and their targeting systems would get horribly confused by them.
    -
    “ “Spartans can take just about anything the Alliance can throw at them”
    -
    What if it’s another spartan being thrown at them via space magic? “
    -
    Actually, they could literally do that using biotic effects.

  35. Halo nrd FTW March 9, 2013 at 7:45 am -      #4435

    all I need to know is if everyone is at their most powerful then i shall explain the loopholes of why Halo wins.

  36. Halo nrd FTW March 9, 2013 at 7:54 am -      #4436

    in the latest forrunner books it says that at one time humans and the san shy’uum (prophets) were both as powerful as the forrunners, also it reveals that the precursers ARE the flood so that means we have all there tech plus the covenant and 3x forrunner power, and also the forrunners arn’t extinct, in the book it says that spark found the librarian, as well as this theres the halo rings, they can move, meaning we just send them into the middle of mass effect and we detonate them, also the blast radius can be modifyed, that is the defenition of a roflstomp by Halo. PS im a die hard halo fan and have not played any of the mass effects so this is just based off what ive read in the books

  37. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets March 9, 2013 at 8:41 am -      #4437

    @Nrd They go by current incarnation on FP, unless stated otherwise. So around the newest Spartan Ops time period.

  38. Halo nrd FTW March 9, 2013 at 11:34 am -      #4438

    kk

  39. Halo nrd FTW March 9, 2013 at 11:37 am -      #4439

    still doesnt rule out the halo idea and with what i said the flood is still a viable option though as the precursers wanted humans to take up the mantle.

  40. Halo nrd FTW March 9, 2013 at 11:43 am -      #4440

    and from another forum they were talking about the keys of janus which leads you to all forrunner relics e.g production facilitys like heavy arks and others.

  41. erickyboo March 9, 2013 at 7:50 pm -      #4441

    … Weakest pistol in mass effect more energy than the largest halo weapon?? No… I doubt the weakest mass effect pistol has more energy than the binary rifle…

    Usually it seems that spartan teams have handlers and usually good situational support. The nukes would likely be detected by Spartans.

    We talked about tactical short jumps before. Slipspace. And I doubt a halo smart AI would get confused by their maneuvers…

  42. Mr. happy March 9, 2013 at 10:38 pm -      #4442

    forerunner weapons are definitely more powerful than a pistol,even if it is a mass driver. Biotics will probably be a major problem till team halo can find a counter

  43. erickyboo March 10, 2013 at 3:29 am -      #4443

    Hm, well if biotics emit some time of radiation or something, sensors might be able to detect them and so place a waypoint on them to prioritize killing them…

  44. Kytheros March 10, 2013 at 4:23 am -      #4444

    “… Weakest pistol in mass effect more energy than the largest halo weapon?? No… I doubt the weakest mass effect pistol has more energy than the binary rifle…”
    -
    “forerunner weapons are definitely more powerful than a pistol,even if it is a mass driver. “
    -
    -
    The demonstrated examples of Forerunner small arms still extant in the Haloverse – that is, those weapons utilized by the Prometheans do not represent such an upgrade over Covenant or UNSC weapons that they are not outclassed by their Mass Effect counerpart/equivalent.
    Yay. Halo’s sniper rifles (and equivalent weapons) and the heavy weapons aren’t completely outclassed in damage output by Mass Effect’s weakest pistol.
    -
    Halo still gets its ass handed to it in ground warfare.
    -
    -
    “Biotics will probably be a major problem till team halo can find a counter”
    -
    That makes the rather wideranging and unsupportable assumption that Halo can find a counter for biotic powers.
    -
    -
    “Hm, well if biotics emit some time of radiation or something, sensors might be able to detect them and so place a waypoint on them to prioritize killing them…”
    -
    Biotics do not emit radiation. They are effectively indistinguishable from non-biotic troops. At most, there might be slight gravitational anomalies around a biotic prepping a power, but since KBs generate gravitational anomalies, as do most ME small arms, not going to have much luck there. Biotic powers in use would also generate gravitational anomalies, but at that point, it’s probably too late.

  45. Virgil March 10, 2013 at 5:36 pm -      #4445

    @TheManWithTheAnswers
    -
    Do we have any numbers on the strength of personal kinetic barriers?

  46. erickyboo March 10, 2013 at 5:50 pm -      #4446

    Forerunner Promethean weapons in halo 4 pack a good punch.
    Hard-light, boson-photon fields. Ionized particles as well, youtu.be/PqhF2Sf2mX0
    youtu.be/o-4r_5AE6D4
    youtu.be/isSlM4cxp_k
    They pack quite a lot of energy and would likely just pass though mass effect shields.

    Promethean knights and company would be very effective.

    Janus key, easy win there but… Still a lot of discussion…

    What kind of effectiveness would biotics have I wonder…

  47. Professor ParaLowk March 10, 2013 at 7:57 pm -      #4447

    Not that it apparently changes much given Halo gets the ability to find foreunner stuff but ME got some updates.
    ===
    -Everyone(soldiers, mercs, etc) either carries omni weapons[blades, shields, powerfist gauntlets, flamethrowers, cryo(?)thrower, etc]
    Some kind of innate ability[biotics enhanced blows, energy based attacks(Geth)]
    or some other melee weapon[poisoned claws, biotic/electric/fire/cryo hammer]
    —-
    Alliance got the OK to use AI.

    Geth energy weapons/attacks can disintegrate people.
    Geth Juggernauts can use a close combat energy attack that supsends target in the air, does damage while absorbing energy for themselves which ends in the target being disintegrated.

    Hammers that incorporate biotics for an effect similar to the gravity hammer but can add energy, heat, or cryo effects to it as well.

    has decoy emitters.

    Collectors are back and they can generate seeker swarms on the field. Mass effect is mostly immune to them but anyone whose not could get stasised.
    They can also disintegrate with some of their abilities.

  48. Professor ParaLowk March 10, 2013 at 8:06 pm -      #4448

    Also soldiers can use fortification that creates barrier sort of like their KBs except it’s made of armor that can withstand hit from their modern weaponry. These would be useful as added defense and in aiding in blocking what there KBs normally can’t.

  49. Professor ParaLowk March 10, 2013 at 8:14 pm -      #4449

    Forgot not really an update since it’s kind of old. The previous shadow broker created a more traditional energy shield that blocks everything. Not the NLF everything, the multiple types of attack “everything”. Like energy weapons like lasers.

    Reapers also had some shielding that surrounds their stuff like relays and artifacts.

  50. the_man_with The_Answers March 11, 2013 at 12:03 am -      #4450

    “Remember that the weakest pistol in Mass Effect is still a mass accelerator weapon with quite a bit more energy than the largest Halo rifle.”
    -
    You’re seriously going to try and sell the idea that Mass Effect pistols have hundreds of kilojoules of energy? I’m not sure if you are aware of what “largest Halo rifle” entails. The plain old sniper rifle isn’t even the largest rifle, and we’re looking at 40kJ+. This being apparently less than the pistols that routinely don’t take your head off when fired directly into it, and from a universe where heavier assault rifles create easily survivable wounds from being shot in the midsection.
    -
    I know the Mass Effect weapons have a punch, they are just nowhere near the level you are describing.
    -
    “Even if the mainline infantry weapons from Mass Effect cannot take out the Spartan power armor with enough hits (which I am not completely convinced of btw)”
    -
    It isn’t so much that Mass Effect weapons can’t take out the suit, it is that the suit is being worn by extremely agile super soldiers that aren’t going to be easy to hit, and they require a decent amount of hits to put down.
    -
    “That makes the rather wideranging and unsupportable assumption that Halo can find a counter for biotic powers.”
    -
    People act as though biotics are some be-all end-all solution. They aren’t. Except on the very small scale, they don’t actually seem to be any sort of major advantage. Human biotics are rare, yet the Systems Alliance is a major power. Turian biotics are even rarer, yet they are an even larger power. Qurian biotics, again, are almost unheard of, and yet they still have galactic power. The Geth are considered a major threat and they have no biotics to speak of.
    So I’m really having trouble seeing why biotics are something of a major threat, when on the large scale, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
    -

  51. Potatochip March 11, 2013 at 7:32 am -      #4451

    “People act as though biotics are some be-all end-all solution. They aren’t. Except on the very small scale, they don’t actually seem to be any sort of major advantage. Human biotics are rare, yet the Systems Alliance is a major power. Turian biotics are even rarer, yet they are an even larger power. Qurian biotics, again, are almost unheard of, and yet they still have galactic power. The Geth are considered a major threat and they have no biotics to speak of.”
    .
    Space power is king in ME. The humans or turians certainly don’t have the best infantry. Their military power comes from their capability in space. Turians have tons of dreadnoughts. Humans have less, but they have a lot carriers to make up the difference. Quarians didn’t have galactic power, until they acquired black market dreadnought weaponry and integrated them into their navy. Geth have tons of dreadnoughts as well. See the pattern? Dreadnoughts are basically what determine power in the ME universe.
    .
    As far as INFANTRY combat, Asari commandos, BIOTICS, are basically said to be amongst the most elite operatives. The only infantrymen potentially more elite than Asari commandos are veterans of the Krogan Rebellions. Many of the strongest Krogan ARE biotics though. So actually… biotics are basically the end-all on the ground for the most part.

  52. Potatochip March 11, 2013 at 8:22 pm -      #4452

    By the way, does anyone actually have VELOCITIES on Shiva missiles? Velocity is just as important if not more important than than payload in a space battle. MACs are slow… very slow in fact, that I feel that they’re actually largely irrelevant to a space battle. At the edge of a Reaper’s effective range with his main cannon, it would take 5 minutes for a MAC round to reach its target. The battle would be over by the time MAC rounds were useful at that range. A ship mounted Super MAC would allow a UNSC ship to compete with a Reaper, otherwise a UNSC vessel would very likely have to rely on fighters or missile payload to hit a Reaper. Depending on the velocity/payload and the number of missiles capable of being fired, (there’d need to be enough to score a hit through a cloud of Oculi and GARDIAN laser), UNSC ships may end up only useful as carriers in space-based combat.
    .
    Covenant ships could probably go up against Reapers though. Their glassing beam has an effective range comparable to a Reaper’s main cannon so they could actually trade shots with them. I think it is funny though that “sniping” in the Haloverse is the standard range of engagement for dreadnoughts.
    .
    Also, as far as people surviving wounds in the MEverse, most people in combat zones have gear that provide nearly instantaneous application of a form medi-gel to stop blood loss (basically the equivalent of biofoam). Rounds that cause internal wounding comparable to modern hollow points are illegal in Citadel space, so unless a shot hits a vital organ, the fact that blood loss is halted means that shots are survivable in the MEverse. That doesn’t mean that rounds can’t output high amounts of energy. Hell, the fact that most rounds rip through the target instead of being stopped by bone or other objects within the target speaks to their absurdly high velocity/energy. Collectors, Protheans, and Geth are (or were in the case of Protheans) not bound by Citadel conventions, have weapons capable of turning enemies into goo. While Collector and Prothean tech are arguably more advanced, Geth weapons are about on par with organics if slightly ahead, so whatever the energy needed to turn a target into goo, is probably about the same level of energy fired by mass effect accelerator weapons. So yeah, I think they pack quite a bit more punch than conventional gunpowder weaponry.

  53. UnauditedCloud March 11, 2013 at 9:15 pm -      #4453

    @Potatochip, please don’t use that word, Velocity.

  54. erickyboo March 12, 2013 at 12:31 am -      #4454

    Distance would be able to get irrelevant for halo as they could pinpoint slipspace to the place they’d want to be. Slipspace at an effective engagement range.

    I thought guardian missiles weren’t that effective? Hundreds archer and other types of missiles could launched as cover for their nukes… The infinity does have it’s twin beams…

    Still the visuals provided by mass effect’s cutscenes as far as I saw don’t really show much of that…

    How would the someone survive them if it would rip them apart?

    Promethean weaponry doesn’t turn people into goo. It incinerates them completely.

    Remember that what we discuss is just extra.
    Janus key, victory for halo. The other guy mentioned stuff but still.

  55. Potatochip March 12, 2013 at 4:11 am -      #4455

    So you’re suggesting that you charge your slipspace drives, open a slipspace portal, fly through said slipspace portal, then attempt to reacquire a target, power your weaponry and fire, all while being bombarded by magma traveling at fractions of the speed of light? That… sounds really dumb. Close combat is for fighters, not for starships. The Mass Effect Codex actually says that exact strategy is very ineffective against Reapers in formation.

  56. Mr. happy March 12, 2013 at 8:03 am -      #4456

    i dont think i saw any ME ship take a few hundred missiles at once cause that is normal for halo. unless ME can stop that many with it’s GUARDIAN systems this may play a role in blanketing ME ships with fire
    -
    @potatochip
    the infinity has been shown to be able to do that and i recall a dreadnaught pulled that trick on a reaper formation. Because the reapers turned much slower than the dread’ it could damage(or was it take out) a few reapers before hightailing outta there. i need confirmation on this though

  57. Potatochip March 12, 2013 at 8:57 am -      #4457

    Not a dreadnought, a fleet of dreadnoughts… that took out a few Reapers. They launched a surprise attack on the Reapers after using unmanned drones to probe for weaknesses. Completely different than trying to use an FTL jump mid-battle to try to close the gap.
    .

  58. erickyboo March 12, 2013 at 9:50 am -      #4458

    The covenant did it early in the war. A few halcyon-class cruisers with their Pillar of autum like MAC canons… Nice shields and fire!

    You believe they wouldn’t be able to do that.

  59. UnauditedCloud March 12, 2013 at 10:55 am -      #4459

    ME3 threw out whatever credibility their Fleets had.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAzc4NuJPDA

    Look at all those rounds missing the reapers….and heading straight towards Palaven. You think with a fleet that size against the 5 Reapers facing the fleet. If they all concentrated on one a a time, they might have a chance but no…

  60. deathmetal3k March 12, 2013 at 11:47 am -      #4460

    @Potatochip Covenant pulse lasers travel at the speed of light and plasma torpedoes travel a third of that.

    -

    Also your biotics claim has a flaw. How often do we see people with major biotic upgrades? They’re just a numerous as the Spartans are if not Even fewer now that their is the spartan V program. So in all technicality that amount of numbers isn’t going to change the tide of a war. Not to mention despite the biotic upgrades the Spartans are far deadlier then the ME soldiers. Why? Spartans reaction time is less then 20 milliseconds, their brute strength allows them to lift warthogs and toss steel doors, and their aim is deadly accurate. However I’m not saying they’re Gods or invincible.

    In one of the books Linda is a accurate enough shot to shoot elites out of their banshees while they were in mid flight. John with the help of cortana I believe even knocked away a rocket with his hand.

    -

    You are also forget the AIs in halo. The AIs in halo are far more advanced then anything ME has at least to the best of my knowledge. This alone could win the battle for Halo. All the AIs have to do is break in any ME systems and take it over. Cortana does it with ease all the time. And with forerunner AIs and Monitors I believe it will be even easier. BB from Thursday war is seemingly just as skilled as cortana in this field.

  61. Potatochip March 12, 2013 at 9:02 pm -      #4461

    Every single Asari is a biotic. Not sure if serious. Krogan can also be implanted with biotics and a fair number of their Battlemasters were created through that process (now that the genophage is cured, there’s nothing stopping the Krogan from doing so again). 10% of humans exposed to Eezo in-utero end up as biotics, and corporations have covertly seeded colonies with eezo dust to promote increased numbers of biotics.
    .
    There are about 40 Spartan IIs. There are billions (exact population unknown) of Asari, and sure, not all Asari are warriors, but they still have a sizable military, and if their ratio of warriors to civilians is comparable to humans, they’ve got a LOT of soldiers. Only the Turians claim there are few Asari, because Turians have the largest military in the galaxy (every single Turian is a soldier).
    .
    As far as Spartans going up against biotics, I don’t buy it. People have said that crap before, and then the Didact showed up and disabled Chief before he could draw his gun and lifted him off his ass before tossing him down a hole almost exactly like a biotic can. That’s not even taking into account that Krogan Battlemasters can meet and beat Spartans in terms of combat experience (decades vs centuries) and biology (Spartans shot in the liver, stomach, heart, spine, etc still suffer organ failure and die, the only decisive shot to a Krogan is shooting him in the brain through his barriers/shields, armor, and natural armor plating). The only thing Spartans have over Battlemasters is speed… except not really because biotics can augment a users speed, even allowing him to teleport in combat. I’m willing to give Halo space combat since Covenant ships are numerous enough and well armed enough to take on the Reapers and the combined fleets of organics, but on the ground? It just ain’t happening.
    .
    Pulse Turrets are lasers and diffract limiting their range. They’re used as point defense weapons. Not really sure why you felt like bringing that up in a ranged standoff. As far as plasma torpedoes, Reapers don’t have crews. Exposing their insides to the vacuum of space won’t cause them to be any less operable, and as far as I know the only component of a Reaper that can be taken out to “kill” it is their core. While a barrage of plasma torpedoes could weaken a Reaper, forcing it to perhaps reroute power through other conduits or rely on other weapons, plasma torpedoes won’t DESTROY a Reaper. Equivalently, plasma torpedoes on a Reaper is like shooting a robot with a conventional weapon. Robots don’t “bleed out” and they don’t experience organ failure.
    .
    As far as AIs… what are you talking about? Every single Reaper is an advanced AI. The Geth are now all intelligent AIs themselves due to the events of Rannoch. There’s also a race of billions of digital intelligences (not really artificial since they were originally people) called the Virtual Aliens. Cyberwarfare is a thing in ME, but have UNSC AIs really ever had their mettle tested going up against an enemy AI? Not as far as I know. The fact that the entirety of a UNSC AI can be downloaded into a single chip doesn’t suggest to me that they’re that advanced.

  62. Professor ParaLowk March 12, 2013 at 10:37 pm -      #4462

    “i recall a dreadnaught pulled that trick on a reaper formation. Because the reapers turned much slower than the dread’ it could damage(or was it take out) a few reapers before hightailing outta there. i need confirmation on this though”
    -
    Actually I think that’s more of a feat for Turian’s ships then it is a weakness of the reapers.
    This is in regard to one of there bigger reapers surprising a Joker whose piloting a frigate.
    “That ship, sovereign? It’s moving. I Don’t know what you did down there, but that thing just pulled a turn that would shear any of our ships in half.
    So Reapers are able to turn pretty pretty fast. Turian were just able to turn faster.
    ===
    “You think with a fleet that size against the 5 Reapers facing the fleet. If they all concentrated on one a a time, they might have a chance but no…”
    -
    There’s more then reapers. There reaper force/reapers on the planet, the fighters, and other ships that could be coming up from the planet to help.
    Besides that if those were the capital ships it’s shown that taking a fleet or two to take those down. Pretty hard to concentrate on one reaper when there is more reapers around them that can engage multiple ships at one time.
    Also the fight between Qurians and Geth showed them trying to focus fire on a reaper enhanced geth dread and a reaper destoryer. Those were just as equally hard to kill even with concentrated fire.
    ===
    “The only thing Spartans have over Battlemasters is speed… ”
    -
    Not saying there Spartan speeds or anything but Krogans are still pretty fast.
    “Grayson broke into a run, and seconds later three armed krogan burst from the warehouse in pursuit. Despite their massive bulk they could run much faster than humans, their muscular legs powering them along.”
    ME: Retribution, Page 252

    From being in front to beside the guy before he can do anything
    ““Five,” Aria stated, her voice making it clear the number wasn’t open for negotiation. “Nobody pays five percent!” the third turian objected, taking an angry step forward as his hand dropped to the pistol clipped to his hip. In a flash the krogan was beside him, his mammoth eight-foot frame looming over the smaller man.
    ME: Retribution, Page 42

  63. Professor ParaLowk March 12, 2013 at 10:47 pm -      #4463

    “The fact that the entirety of a UNSC AI can be downloaded into a single chip doesn’t suggest to me that they’re that advanced.”
    -
    I can fit several albums worth of music, photos, videos, etc on a device half the size of my finger. My Grandmother has a floppy disk the size of my hand that can barely hold a fraction of that. Just sayin

  64. Zazax March 12, 2013 at 10:54 pm -      #4464

    “I’m willing to give Halo space combat since Covenant ships are numerous enough and well armed enough to take on the Reapers and the combined fleets of organics”
    But they’re not. Sufficiently numerous, maybe. *Maybe*. But they’re not even close on firepower.
    The UNSC and the Systems Alliance are about the same (UNSC hits twice as hard, but SA hits twice as often, so it evens out). MACs are stronger than anything the Covenant has except *maybe* Energy Projectors, which are too clumsy to be accurately used in space combat at the ranges ME fights at (and can force Halo to fight at) by anything short of a Supercruiser (only one of which is ever seen, and it’s promptly destroyed).

  65. SgCombine March 12, 2013 at 10:59 pm -      #4465

    “The fact that the entirety of a UNSC AI can be downloaded into a single chip doesn’t suggest to me that they’re that advanced.”
    -
    Because the 100+ ton computers from the 1950′s are far more advanced and powerful then modern day desktops right?

  66. erickyboo March 12, 2013 at 11:38 pm -      #4466

    There are a few hundred Spartans. On the infinity, there were 300-500 spartan-IVs stationed there. There are 330 Spartans-3 from gamma company.

    What about pillar of autumn MAC? That one that fired three rounds I think? What were the stats again?
    Halcyon cruisers! And shields yay! And advanced slipspace yay!

    Pulse lasers were used against human ships. A frigate was sliced by them early on. It was one of the first few ships every destroyed.

    Naomi could run at 60km/h.

    When the forward unto dawn decelerates on the ark to land above the place. Any thing on that?

    I wonder what other ships humanity might just find with the Janus key…

    Roland has some nice decoding skills… I forgot the numbers though.

  67. Potatochip March 13, 2013 at 12:08 am -      #4467

    “I can fit several albums worth of music, photos, videos, etc on a device half the size of my finger. My Grandmother has a floppy disk the size of my hand that can barely hold a fraction of that. Just sayin”
    .
    Storage capacity doesn’t determine success in a cyber warfare battle. Processing power does. Any computer activity generates heat, and generally speaking the faster the calculations the more heat generated. Processes can be made to run more efficiently, but there are physical limitations on that side. Eventually you’re going to get bottle necked if you can’t vent heat quickly enough. My point is, Chief doesn’t have a fan on the back of his helmet, and his head hasn’t melted off yet, so there is only so many calculations Cortana can do while in his suit. Compare that to a machine a kilometer long with a massive server farm within it that doesn’t have to support organic life within it or nearby it, so it can flood itself with coolant in order to run more efficiently. There’s a reason that everyone looks at The Illusive Man like he’s a loon for thinking he can hack the Reapers.
    .
    @ Zazax, I’m going to scan the previous pages and see if I can get a gauge for how many Covenant ships there are. Halo wikia says “thousands” of ships… that could range anywhere from a little over a thousand which would be torn apart, to like 8-9 thousand which would probably be enough to zerg the Reapers down.

  68. Potatochip March 13, 2013 at 12:17 am -      #4468

    Just read someone said that match is supposed to be their most current incarnation. That… kind of screws things up. Does anyone have numbers for fleet sizes and such after the Human-Covenant War?

  69. UnauditedCloud March 13, 2013 at 10:46 am -      #4469

    @Potatochip, All I’m saying is that, for a advanced race of A.I’s, one would think that the only solution is to kill off ever advanced species every 50k years so they wouldn’t be killed by Synthetics.

  70. Professor ParaLowk March 13, 2013 at 1:17 pm -      #4470

    “All I’m saying is that, for a advanced race of A.I’s, one would think that the only solution is to kill off ever advanced species every 50k years so they wouldn’t be killed by Synthetics.”
    -
    Not kill off, harvest and preserve. The catalyst was essentially just doing it’s job. The Leviathans should have been more specific about what they meant when they programmed it to preserve life “at any cost”.
    And given that it’s been successful at there job up till now does speak to their effectiveness at least.

    Also given that it’s shown that for at least 3 or more cycles synthetics were big threats the advanced species were kind of adding fuel to the fire.

  71. VunderGuy March 13, 2013 at 4:03 pm -      #4471

    What’s the current incarnation?

  72. the_man_with The_Answers March 14, 2013 at 8:24 pm -      #4472

    “As far as INFANTRY combat, Asari commandos, BIOTICS, are basically said to be amongst the most elite operatives. The only infantrymen potentially more elite than Asari commandos are veterans of the Krogan Rebellions. Many of the strongest Krogan ARE biotics though. So actually… biotics are basically the end-all on the ground for the most part.”
    -
    You forget about N7s (Most of which won’t be biotics), STG, Various Geth classifications, and so on. As I recall, in Mass Effect, I took on multiple squads of Asari Commandos as a soldier with Garrus and Ashley. I think people over-blow biotics, because they see all biotics as being as strong as Jack, Samara, and Shepard’s squad in general, forgetting that these are literally the best of the elite of the elite. And also, the Asari, the most biotic sensitive of the races, isn’t even noted for having the best ground military. That belongs to the Turians (Biotics are extremely rare) and Krogans (Biotics are uncommon).
    -
    “Hell, the fact that most rounds rip through the target instead of being stopped by bone or other objects within the target speaks to their absurdly high velocity/energy.”
    -
    Not really. Absurdly high velocities actually don’t penetrate well at all. I believe, once you start getting way up past hyper sonic, things penetrate less and tend to do more of “explode on impact.”
    -
    “So yeah, I think they pack quite a bit more punch than conventional gunpowder weaponry.”
    -
    Yeah, like 15kJ (+/- 5kJ or so depending on the rifle in question) for assault rifles. But due to their lower mass, they would have lower momentum (The increased velocity doesn’t quite make up for it). The novels and the games don’t really portray Mass Effect weapons as extremely more powerful. Marginally more powerful at best. Significantly different than “ME pistols blow the biggest Halo guns out of the water).”
    -
    “all while being bombarded by magma traveling at fractions of the speed of light? That… sounds really dumb. Close combat is for fighters, not for starships.”
    -
    #1: All the while? Is that c-fractional magma going to be after them in slipspace? What about when they pop out in a location completely unknown to ME?
    #2: I’m going to have to correct you. Close combat is for FRIGATES, not for Dreadnaughts. Considering everyone compares Halo frigates and their respective statistics to Mass Effect Dreadnaughts and their respective stats, this doesn’t surprise me. You say Halo frigates will have to get close to Dreadnaughts, yet act like Mass Effect Frigates don’t have to do the same exact thing. Everybody just acts like the Mass Effect fleet is brimming with Dreadnaughts, it isn’t, they’re actually sort of rare.
    -
    “Every single Asari is a biotic. Not sure if serious. Krogan can also be implanted with biotics and a fair number of their Battlemasters were created through that process (now that the genophage is cured, there’s nothing stopping the Krogan from doing so again). 10% of humans exposed to Eezo in-utero end up as biotics, and corporations have covertly seeded colonies with eezo dust to promote increased numbers of biotics.”
    -
    But how many of those are extremely powerful? The norm for biotics is that it is hard, and takes a lot of energy, unless you are a statistical anomaly like Jack, Samara, or Miranda.
    -
    “As far as Spartans going up against biotics, I don’t buy it. People have said that crap before, and then the Didact showed up and disabled Chief before he could draw his gun and lifted him off his ass before tossing him down a hole almost exactly like a biotic can. ”
    -
    You just compared the technology and capability of one of the most powerful people from a race with technology so far out of Mass Effect’s league that the Didact, his Prometheans, and his ship could solo Mass Effect, to the capability of your regular biotic soldier. As I recall, as strong biotic like Adept Shepard, is only putting out 1,000-2,000 Newtons for certain biotic abilities. Do you know what a SPARTAN weighs in Newtons? Over 4,000 Newtons. SPARTANs put out more force than Adept Shepard when they break into a sprint…
    So forgive me if I don’t buy into any old biotic soldier, or even above the norm, wrecking a 450kg super-soldier. Unless of course it is someone like Jack, Samara, or Miranda.
    Oh, and by the way, your analogy to the Didact fails on another level. The technology he uses takes zero effort on his part. Biotics take quite a bit of effort to use.
    -
    “The only thing Spartans have over Battlemasters is speed”
    -
    And agility, and combat reaction speeds, and intelligence, and strength isn’t all that different (SPARTANs actually weigh a little more than Krogans, 450kg to roughly 360kg). I would also wager they act with a little more safety in mind. Durability is the only major advantage, and not even by much, considering SPARTANs function with failing organs, extremely high/low blood pressure, broken bones, and deflated lungs. S-IIIs, while weaker in general, fight through shock, and even for a short period after they have actually died.
    -
    “There’s also a race of billions of digital intelligences (not really artificial since they were originally people) called the Virtual Aliens. ”
    -
    Wut?
    -
    “The fact that the entirety of a UNSC AI can be downloaded into a single chip doesn’t suggest to me that they’re that advanced.”
    -
    Are you kidding me? An AI that can do trillions of things per second, is versed in biological, quantum, and conventional computing, and has processed the history of mankind as well as multiple Forerunner data archives, all while being on a chip the size of your hand, is EXTREMELY advanced. EDI takes a whole damn room to function, and in ME1, as a fairly advanced VI, took multiple rooms.
    Hey, the computers from a few decades ago were huge, surely they were more advanced than the much smaller computers of today!
    -
    “Those were just as equally hard to kill even with concentrated fire.”
    -
    Especially with all that triple digit MJ/single digit tonne levels of firepower!
    -
    “Energy Projectors, which are too clumsy to be accurately used in space combat at the ranges ME fights at ”
    -
    Yep, a 100,000km range is totally clumsy compared to the “tens of thousands of kilometers” range of Dreadnaughts…
    -
    “Chief doesn’t have a fan on the back of his helmet, and his head hasn’t melted off yet,”
    -
    Considering Cortana runs throughout the suit, the same suit that contains a fusion generator, and a gel layer that helps against thousand degree plasma and other temperature extremes.
    Not to mention different forms of computing.
    -
    “I’m going to scan the previous pages and see if I can get a gauge for how many Covenant ships there are. Halo wikia says “thousands” of ships… that could range anywhere from a little over a thousand which would be torn apart, to like 8-9 thousand which would probably be enough to zerg the Reapers down.”
    -
    Mars, during the Human Covenant war, could produce over 100 ships in the time frame of a few months. The Covenant have planet-wide ship producing facilities, not to mention the scale they build on is just plain bigger than Mass Effect in general (The Citadel, a behemoth as far as space structures go, is 40-some km, High Charity, the Covenant “equivalent,” is 360-some km long)
    -
    “Does anyone have numbers for fleet sizes and such after the Human-Covenant War”
    -
    Nobody really knows. Apparently, by 2557, ships are being upgraded with Forerunner technology on a wide scale thanks to the aquisition of Forerunner-grade Engineers, but the Covenant war machine is in shambles on a production level.
    Though, with the existence of the Janus Key, that all really doesn’t matter at all.
    Not to mention the UNSC is quickly learning how to use Forerunner slipspace bubbles that alter time, so theoretically, they could make a bubble that, on the inside, there is a factory that makes 100 ships in a few months, but on the outside, only a few weeks has passed. The possibilities are quite interesting.
    -
    “The catalyst was essentially just doing it’s job.”
    -
    It’s job was literally, given by the Leviathans themselves, to find a way to stop synthetics from rising up and killing organics en masse. Guess what the Catalyst did? Rise up and kill organics en masse, over, and over, and over again. The Leviathans themselves did not want that solution. Even in your dialogue with the Catalyst, it is clear that the “solution” is tragically flawed, and has been for millions of years.
    Sure, UNSC AIs go rampant after 7 or so years, but they don’t go FULL-GENOCIDE. For the most part, even rampant Halo AIs still try to protect their human creators (Jane, Cortana, Mack, Loki, Sif). Hell, The Assembly has been around for decades, and they have done a better job than the Catalyst.
    -
    Is it so hard for Mass Effect AIs to contemplate that you can save organic life without killing 99% of it every 50,000 years?

  73. Krypto Lowk March 14, 2013 at 11:38 pm -      #4473

    “As I recall, in Mass Effect, I took on multiple squads of Asari Commandos as a soldier with Garrus and Ashley.”
    -
    Pretty sure that was a mix of pis and the enviroment. Seriously matriarchs
    ===
    “I think people over-blow biotics, because they see all biotics as being as strong as Jack, Samara, and Shepard’s squad in general, forgetting that these are literally the best of the elite of the elite.”
    -
    Trained biotic are still fairly dangerous. Maybe not take on an entire squad or fuck up a ship+tank mech but still there showings of none shepard elite of elites being pretty powerful.
    -A non-military trained, human 12 year old student was able to fire a shockwave that was lethal and was able to manipulate to non lethal level when he realized it was going to hit his teach. Still messed her up and knocked by reaperized grayson.
    -Krogan Skarr was able to biotic blast a 4-ton vehicale into the air several meters back.
    -A biotic alliance biotic was able to put up a barrier around himself to resist the pull and debris generated by a girls singularity storm whose pull extended over an entire cafeteria. The girl has shown the power to lift a six ton vehicles and slam it on people. The old alliance guy was nothing to special(barring the bioticness).
    -ME3 had asari soldiers holding barriers(alone) against bombardment and keeping brutes and such out.
    -Omega had asari mercs doing the same except some where holding up large gates and others placing up bubbles protecting turrets.
    -Liara dad apparently could do singularities.
    -Speaking of liara, only thing she was an elite in was protheans. She was a child to them. She didn’t have years of huntress training or devote herself to asari jedi. She was able toss around stuff like singulaities and stasis.
    Are biotic soldiers the end all be all for infantry, no. Are they all super powerful like Jack, no. But they don’t have to be when they can do things like fling people around, trap them in stasis, attack nervous systems and electrical systems directly, leave a presistant biotic field around someone, and block bullets with there mind.
    ===
    “And also, the Asari, the most biotic sensitive of the races, isn’t even noted for having the best ground military. That belongs to the Turians (Biotics are extremely rare) and Krogans (Biotics are uncommon).”
    -
    They have numbers plus
    One of which consist of rabbit like breeding, regen, armored, natural super soldiers.
    The other a specifically military focused society with a thing for weaponry.
    Asari aren’t as numerous and seem to focus on different tactics other then pure military force.
    ===
    “Is it so hard for Mass Effect AIs to contemplate that you can save organic life without killing 99% of it every 50,000 years?”
    -
    1. Iirc it considered it more of converting/preserving then killing.
    2. Thats what happens when a advanced civilization of egotistical space cthulus who think they are right program an AI and are vague about what they want and don’t set limits. At least EDI had the chance of working with people that liked her before being set free to do what she wants.
    3. Most of the Geth were up for peace, took care of the quarian planets for them, and are even willing to help them afterwards.
    4. Alliance currently is allowed to use AI units based of of EDI/EVA
    -
    So yes, assuming they are brought up right.

  74. Mr. Man March 15, 2013 at 2:47 pm -      #4474

    I’ve heard Mass Effect was pretty intense,
    but blood and gore doesn’t make any difference. It’s a fair fight, but I got to
    give this one to Halo

  75. Krypto Lowk March 15, 2013 at 3:30 pm -      #4475

    “but I got to
    give this one to Halo”
    -
    Seems to be the way it’s going. Especially with the whole foreunner enhancement Halo seems to be getting.

  76. BC March 15, 2013 at 8:16 pm -      #4476

    -
    “ You’re seriously going to try and sell the idea that Mass Effect pistols have hundreds of kilojoules of energy? I’m not sure if you are aware of what “largest Halo rifle” entails. The plain old sniper rifle isn’t even the largest rifle, and we’re looking at 40kJ+. This being apparently less than the pistols that routinely don’t take your head off when fired directly into it, and from a universe where heavier assault rifles create easily survivable wounds from being shot in the midsection. “
    -
    And are you seriously trying to sell the idea that all Halo troops run around with modified Russian HMGs? The halo Anti-Matériel sniper rifle is not meant for shooting at people, it is for killing light vehicles. APFSDS ammo like it uses would punch a small relatively clean hole right through an unarmored, unshielded person with little of the shock transference that expanding bullets meant for soft skinned targets produce in people. So little energy would transfer that I doubt a Krogan in his skivvies and no barriers or added armor would even notice the hit and would wonder after the battle what caused the nail sized hole in its front and back. Also the muzzle energy runs between 29 and 33kj for the contemporary Russian round which is about twice that of the .50BMG, I doubt a normal person could handle much more than that even prone with a bipod.
    -
    When I said the ME pistol discharged more energy than the largest Halo rifle I was referring to the battle rifles used on enemy troops, not specialized anti-vehicle weaponry. Neither the 7.62 NATO nor the 9.5mm (probably .375 or more likely .378 Weatherby magnum equivalent with an improved scenar style bullet and shorter case judging from the picture of one (which looks suspiciously like a slightly photoshopped 6.5 grendel)) can match the ME pistols in energy output per ‘shot’. The only reason ME can get away with packing a heavy elephant gun equivalent punch in a pistol is Mass Effect trickery keeping the recoil to manageable levels, something Halo has no access to, and the fact that each ‘round’ is a short stream of grain of rice sized projectiles which spreads the kick slightly.
    -
    “ You say Halo frigates will have to get close to Dreadnaughts, yet act like Mass Effect Frigates don’t have to do the same exact thing. Everybody just acts like the Mass Effect fleet is brimming with Dreadnaughts, it isn’t, they’re actually sort of rare. ”
    -
    Dreadnaughts are fairly rare, true, but cruisers are not and they can stand off at the same range as the dreadnaughts while the frigates go in for knife fight range. Alliance also has a lot of carriers which in effect boosts up the dreadnaught equivalence count too.
    -
    -
    “ But how many of those are extremely powerful? The norm for biotics is that it is hard, and takes a lot of energy, unless you are a statistical anomaly like Jack, Samara, or Miranda. “
    -
    Most Asari only have one or two good high power attacks before they are too exhausted to continue using biotics in any particular fight. The thing is there are so many of them (all of the Asari involved) that still adds up to a lot of extremely nasty surprises for those fighting them and they are well trained in when and how to use that burst or two of power for the greatest effect on the battle. Stronger ones can, of course, do more than the run of the mill ones and it is easier to defend efficiently than to attack.
    -
    ” Is it so hard for Mass Effect AIs to contemplate that you can save organic life without killing 99% of it every 50,000 years? “
    -
    With the way the leviathans think it makes sense in a twisted sort of way, kind of like how everyone overlooked the fatal flaw in the Three Laws in the movie version of “I Robot”. Remember, not all AIs in ME are made by egotistical giants with only a vague grasp of human style morals, artificials like EDI will probably not go “homicidal”.
    -
    Even the Geth, who everyone assumed were turning on their creators like the Reapers were said to have done were not doing that at all; from their point of view they were just defending themselves against creators who seemed to be turning on them. The Quarians had almost no trouble with them at all until the Council started interfering and spread their paranoia to the Quarians who then started to shut the Geth down. Even after the revolution it was not unknown for the Geth to rescue some Quarians or others if they could do it in a way that did not expose them to the biological’s mysterious “hostility”. When the Geth and Quarians get a chance to talk rationally to each other and finally understand each other’s real motives instead of just knee-jerk reactions to doctrine the conflict stops abruptly and the Geth help the Quarians quite a bit, even to the point of coming up with a treatment to cure their fatal environmental problem so they are not dependent on their suits anymore (though tradition keeps them using them as a kind of social armor).
    -
    So the answer to your question would be that no, it is not hard for ME AIs to save organics without killing them, the hard part is getting around the bad press of billions of years in order to do it and have it believed that it is not some kind of evil trick.
    -
    As long as the Forerunners keep getting nerfed down so MC and company can handle them Mass Effect has a decent chance of winning this thing. If the novels ever got supported instead of kneecapped in every new game version to come out that would be a different story and ME would get toasted in short order.

  77. Krypto Lowk March 15, 2013 at 9:24 pm -      #4477

    “So little energy would transfer that I doubt a Krogan in his skivvies and no barriers or added armor would even notice the hit and would wonder after the battle what caused the nail sized hole in its front and back.”
    -
    A krogan has shown to take 6 shot from an assault rifle in the stomach in a shirt. It messed up his stomach area but it didn’t go much further then that.
    Also Grunt has gotten shot in the face point blank and it didn’t penetrate, though that was with a pistol.
    ===
    Pointless update, apparently they upped the round velocity at some point.
    The Lancer has been refurbished by an unknown master weaponsmith, and it now uses the higher velocity rounds of today’s weaponry. It does not need heat sinks, instead utilizing weapon heat-generation from an earlier era.
    So they went from railguns to faster railguns.

  78. IamTaco March 16, 2013 at 8:17 am -      #4478

    ‘As long as the Forerunners keep getting nerfed down so MC and company can handle them Mass Effect has a decent chance of winning this thing. If the novels ever got supported instead of kneecapped in every new game version to come out that would be a different story and ME would get toasted in short order.’
    -
    HAHAHA. Oh wait, you’re serious. HAHAHAHAHA. Halo could win against ME by itself without the forerunners. Even if the forerunners were nerfed to high hell, which the might be, Halo will still win. Of course only the forerunner ground troops are being nerfed. Everything else can be hand waved away. In some cases the game actually buffs the Forerunners a little.

  79. the_man_with The_Answers March 16, 2013 at 11:21 pm -      #4479

    “A non-military trained, human 12 year old student was able to fire a shockwave that was lethal and was able to manipulate to non lethal level when he realized it was going to hit his teach. Still messed her up and knocked by reaperized grayson.”
    -
    Killing a likely unarmored teacher isn’t exactly anywhere close to killing 450kg soldiers, or armored soldiers in general.
    -
    “Krogan Skarr was able to biotic blast a 4-ton vehicale into the air several meters back.”
    -
    Skarr fits in exactly with those “uber-biotics” like Jack and Samara.
    Especially considering there are two main reactions to Skarr
    #1: Holy Hell, a Krogan biotic!
    #2: Holy mother of god this biotic is strong.
    Should I point out that Skarr had difficulty fighting Anderson? On more than one occasion? It is also made quite clear that Saren would rip Skarr a new one, considering Skarr’s reaction to Saren is generally “Oh shit, a Spectre.” Saren lacks biotics…
    -
    “A biotic alliance biotic was able to put up a barrier around himself to resist the pull and debris generated by a girls singularity storm whose pull extended over an entire cafeteria. The girl has shown the power to lift a six ton vehicles and slam it on people. The old alliance guy was nothing to special(barring the bioticness).”
    -
    Which book was this from? But just saying, if a guy can hold his own against a powerful-biotic, he himself is probably a powerful biotic.
    -
    “ME3 had asari soldiers holding barriers(alone) against bombardment and keeping brutes and such out.”
    -
    In groups. Should I point out that Samara’s duaghter, despite being the child of an extremely powerful biotic, an Ardat-Yakshi (Or however you spell it), and living in a sanctuary where biotics were part of the learning, was having extreme trouble dealing with even basic Reaper forces.
    -
    “Omega had asari mercs doing the same except some where holding up large gates and others placing up bubbles protecting turrets.”
    -
    As I recall, that was also in groups. I should point out again that Shepard, being a very skilled biotic, is only putting out 1,000-2,000N, which is great for taking on most infantry, but tends to falter when you get to heavier units.
    -
    “Speaking of liara, only thing she was an elite in was protheans. She was a child to them. She didn’t have years of huntress training or devote herself to asari jedi. She was able toss around stuff like singulaities and stasis”
    -
    She was the daughter of Benezia, one of the most influential people in her time period. Undoubtedly she was provided with some of the best biotic training out there. Not to mention she has had to hold her own against mercenaries while on digs and is not stranger to combat. It is made fairly clear (Especially in Mass Effect 2, where she takes on an Asari Spectre) that she is a strong biotic.
    -
    “They have numbers plus
    One of which consist of rabbit like breeding, regen, armored, natural super soldiers.
    The other a specifically military focused society with a thing for weaponry.
    Asari aren’t as numerous and seem to focus on different tactics other then pure military force.”
    -
    And none of that would even matter if biotics where anywhere near as powerful as they are made out to be. When Skarr is used as a fairly typical example of biotic strength, and he flips 4 ton vehicles, a race of 100% biotics would be uncontestable. You couldn’t fight them and win, because their basic infantry are ripping apart your heavy armor with their minds.
    But for the same reasons Turians and Krogans are more proficient in a military-sense than the good majority of biotics is doubly so for why SPARTANs would be.
    -
    “Iirc it considered it more of converting/preserving then killing.”
    -
    That doesn’t make it any better. Letting organic life live is, I don’t know, about infinity times better than killing billions to make a giant robot cuttlefish to (kill more) “preserve” the billions killed.
    -
    “Thats what happens when a advanced civilization of egotistical space cthulus who think they are right program an AI and are vague about what they want and don’t set limits.”
    -
    No matter the limits, I don’t think the solution for the problem of “Synthetics killing their organic creators” is “Kill our organic creators, make them synthetic, then kill more organics.”
    -
    “Most of the Geth were up for peace, took care of the quarian planets for them, and are even willing to help them afterwards.”
    -
    They seem to be the exception rather than the rule. The Leviathans, for god knows how long, observed the same process of synthetics killing their organic creators (So much so that it became a major problem that needed solving). Javik even notes synthetics killing their organic creators on multiple occasions. Even in the case of the Geth, they were about to take out the Quarians if it weren’t for Shepard, and a large group of heretics wanted to genocide the galaxy. Even in EDI’s early days on the Luna base, she was very anti-organic.
    -
    “The halo Anti-Matériel sniper rifle is not meant for shooting at people, it is for killing light vehicles.”
    -
    Oh, yeah, that’s right! I forgot that the UNSC uses that other sniper rifle that has never been mentioned anywhere ever for their mainline troops! The one we’re talking about totally isn’t the most commonly used one in the UNSC! It is totally never used against people, like how Tango company totally didn’t use sniper teams with these rifles against 12 year old S-IIs who had no armor support at all, not even augmentations! An APFSDS rounds are never depicted as wrecking the shit they hit, especially not infantry that is armored like just about all infantry in Halo and Mass Effect!
    You’ve seriously got to be kidding me.
    -
    “Also the muzzle energy runs between 29 and 33kj for the contemporary Russian round which is about twice that of the .50BMG, I doubt a normal person could handle much more than that even prone with a bipod.”
    -
    Problems here, the Russian round isn’t APFSDS, which actually tends to have a 36g weight (As opposed to 60g), and has a muzzle velocity of 1,500m/s+ (As opposed to 1,000m/s). This gives it 40kJ+ KE. More interestingly is that UNSC Marines DO handle it, over and over through the fiction, even while standing. I mean, your arguement is that the staple infantry sniper rifle of the UNSC is a rare specialty weapon, is ineffective against the things it is described as being effective against, and barely usable by the people who use it all the time with little issue. Are you kidding?
    -
    “Dreadnaughts are fairly rare, true, but cruisers are not and they can stand off at the same range as the dreadnaughts while the frigates go in for knife fight range. Alliance also has a lot of carriers which in effect boosts up the dreadnaught equivalence count too.”
    -
    And wtf does this have to do with Frigates closing distance? Are we stupidly comparing Halo Frigates to ME Cruisers now? Because my whole point is that people act as though Halo frigates having to close distance is some obscene weakness, when ME Frigates literally have to do the same exact thing.
    -
    “With the way the leviathans think it makes sense in a twisted sort of way, ”
    -
    Except that’s not, in any way, how the Leviathans were thinking. Their response to the “solution” was a big fat “FUCK” while the Reapers continued the trend of Synthetics killing their organic creators.
    -
    “artificials like EDI will probably not go “homicidal”.”
    -
    Probably because she already did. Remember the Luna base? That may not be the case now, but even EDI followed the trend. Also, “Artificials like EDI” are exceedingly rare, like so rare that EDI is basically one of a kind. Essentially, for every “EDI” there are many more counter-examples of synthetics going batshit.
    -
    “Even the Geth, who everyone assumed were turning on their creators like the Reapers were said to have done were not doing that at all; from their point of view they were just defending themselves against creators who seemed to be turning on them.”
    -
    Except for, you know, the Heretics.
    -
    “When the Geth and Quarians get a chance to talk rationally to each other and finally understand each other’s real motives instead of just knee-jerk reactions to doctrine the conflict stops abruptly”
    -
    It took Commander-Fucking-Shepard, the most convincing person in the Mass Effect galaxy, to stop them from killing each other. Not a great way to prove how easily Organics and Synthetics get along.
    -
    “As long as the Forerunners keep getting nerfed down ”
    -
    Yup, nerfed right down to:
    -Von-nueman cheap-as-shit infantry units meant to over-Flood the Flood by turning organics into hardlight constructions that carry weapons that can completely erase 450kg super soldiers with individual hits.
    -Flying “beds” that can withstand missile bombardment, 70mm fire, and so on. Iit is worth mentioning that it can hit super-sonic, if not hyper-sonic speeds.
    -A ship that travels from Requim to 03 in minutes, and from 03 to Earth in the same time frame. This ship also has point defense cannons that threaten a 6km-long shielded starship loaded with tens of thousands of missiles and multiple advanced MAC cannons. It has shields that say “lolnope” To Earth’s orbital defenses (i.e., stations that put out gigatons of firepower). The ability to repair breaches in the hull in mere seconds. The ability to shield things on the inside enough to withstand a 30 megaton explosion.
    -A completely artificial planet that contains dimensionally compressed inner-planets. This “planet” can also survive going into a sun with no noticeable effects (Until it supernovas).
    -
    The Didact, his ship, the Composer, and his Prometheans could Solo Mass Effect, so you’ll have to wait for a tad bit more nerfing.
    -
    “Also Grunt has gotten shot in the face point blank”
    -
    It wasn’t the face, it was his armored chest. On another note, Krogans go down to individual pistol rounds all the time in the games, Wrex went down pretty easy, and Grunt (If you screw up the Suicide mission) can go down pretty easy. Just pointing out that there are indeed low ends.

  80. Krypto Lowk March 17, 2013 at 2:18 am -      #4480

    “Killing a likely unarmored teacher isn’t exactly anywhere close to killing 450kg soldiers, or armored soldiers in general.”
    -
    It was going to fuck up the reaperized Grayson who had shown being able to take gun fire.
    But that was just to show even a biotic child is strong enough to kill.
    Also that type of damage done should be shouldn’t be to hindered by armor unless it’s shown to protect against something like that. I think Spartan are with the gel foam or something to help lessen impacts like falling from great heights to the ground. The stuff the UNSC marine wear however shouldn’t help be as helpful.
    ===
    “#1: Holy Hell, a Krogan biotic!”
    -
    Thats more to the fact that he’s both when. Either is dangerous together is the equivalent of a regenerative tank with legs that can affect things with it’s mind.

    “#2: Holy mother of god this biotic is strong.”
    -
    When was this stated?
    ===
    “Should I point out that Skarr had difficulty fighting Anderson? On more than one occasion?”
    -
    When they fought it was either him against more then one person and injured. He still was capableof being able to kill them.
    The other time Anderson had shot him 6 times in the torso and Skarr was still able to overpower him with one hand.
    -
    Anderson and company only were able to handle him though wear/tear, numbers, and PIS.
    ===
    “It is also made quite clear that Saren would rip Skarr a new one, considering Skarr’s reaction to Saren is generally “Oh shit, a Spectre.” Saren lacks biotics…”
    -
    Not according to Saren
    “Aren’t you going after him?” Grissom asked their unknown ally. He was still sitting on the floor, but he’d used the belt of his bathrobe to tie a tourniquet around his upper arm, stemming the flow of blood from his wounded bicep.”
    “Not armed only with this,” the turian responded, holding up his pistol. “Besides, only a fool faces a krogan biotic alone.”

    —-
    If anything it’s probably do to his reputation as one of the better Spectres. Spectres are those types that nobody really wants to fuck with. Evident by
    ““I make it a habit never to get involved in Spectre business,” Skarr said, his voice dropping to a low growl.”
    ===
    “Which book was this from? But just saying, if a guy can hold his own against a powerful-biotic, he himself is probably a powerful biotic.”
    -
    Hendel Mitra is a regular biotic/retired alliance marine, with the same training the rest of of the biotics got.
    ===
    “In groups. ”
    -
    Nope.
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ys9q4W-Cw5s#t=4s

    “As I recall, that was also in groups.”
    -
    Again, no. Single individual.
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Asarishield_zps7107685a.png
    ===
    “Should I point out that Samara’s duaghter, despite being the child of an extremely powerful biotic, an Ardat-Yakshi (Or however you spell it), and living in a sanctuary where biotics were part of the learning, was having extreme trouble dealing with even basic Reaper forces.”
    -
    The monastery isn’t there to hone their biotic abilitie tp make them powerful. It’s basically a mental institute. It’s job is to make them less dangerous, not more.
    ===
    “And none of that would even matter if biotics where anywhere near as powerful as they are made out to be. When Skarr is used as a fairly typical example of biotic strength, and he flips 4 ton vehicles, a race of 100% biotics would be uncontestable. You couldn’t fight them and win, because their basic infantry are ripping apart your heavy armor with their minds.
    But for the same reasons Turians and Krogans are more proficient in a military-sense than the good majority of biotics is doubly so for why SPARTANs would be.”
    -
    While fluid and mobile, asari can’t stand up in a firestorm the way a krogan, turian, or human could. Since their units are small and typically lack heavy armor and support weapons, they are almost incapable of fighting a conventional war, particularly one of a defensive nature.
    -
    They are basically glass cannons, with a smaller military compared to the Turian or Krogan, who in addition to being more equipped have biotics of there own.
    They aren’t invincible and they are out numbered/gunned.
    I could kick through a field of puppies with relative ease. It’s a whole nother story if there happen to be grown dogs and their angry owners are around and able to swarm me while I’m trying to kick angry puppies.
    ===
    “She was the daughter of Benezia, one of the most influential people in her time period. Undoubtedly she was provided with some of the best biotic training out there.”
    -
    Compared to asari soldiers who likely have several more years of training and experience then her. Yet somehow you believe they are less powerful then the one who spent most of them studying? Liara seems like an okay example of what a trained Asari(military) is capable of.
    ===
    “That doesn’t make it any better. Letting organic life live is, I don’t know, about infinity times better than killing billions to make a giant robot cuttlefish to (kill more) “preserve” the billions killed.”
    -
    Again, I bring up who it was essentially raised by. A race of egotistical tyrant cthulus. You disagree with it but it insist it way is right and has the forces to back him up until you build a giant ending color gun.
    ===
    “No matter the limits, I don’t think the solution for the problem of “Synthetics killing their organic creators” is “Kill our organic creators, make them synthetic, then kill more organics.”
    -
    No one does. But he has giant monsters ships
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZH3TMjxKVMM#t=143s
    ===
    ” Even in the case of the Geth, they were about to take out the Quarians if it weren’t for Shepard”
    -
    Cuz they were trying to kill them.
    —-
    “and a large group of heretics wanted to genocide the galaxy.”
    -
    Thanks reapers that they worshiped, which bring us back to the flawed Starchild thing.

    “Even in EDI’s early days on the Luna base, she was very anti-organic.”
    -
    She wasn’t as intelligent at that point, was in the process of gaining awareness while under attack, and was signaling for help.
    Not exactly anti-organic. More like confused and afraid.
    ====
    “Also, “Artificials like EDI” are exceedingly rare, like so rare that EDI is basically one of a kind. Essentially, for every “EDI” there are many more counter-examples of synthetics going batshit.”
    -
    Near the end of the war The Alliance started producing combat AI units like EDI’s current state. Well EVA, but she designed like EDI… which would make EDI either a grandmother or an Aunt depending on how you EVA and EDI. Either way council gave the okay for it and Now ME has not only EDI but other AIs in the form of sexy ninja bots.
    Why you ask, because BIOWARE has taken the dive into rule of cool and they ain’t gettin out.
    ===
    “Except for, you know, the Heretics.”
    -
    Who were basically the same as cultist following a false god aka Sovereign.
    ===
    “It took Commander-Fucking-Shepard, the most convincing person in the Mass Effect galaxy, to stop them from killing each other. Not a great way to prove how easily Organics and Synthetics get along. ”
    -
    That more on the Quarians though.
    They attacked them, got beat, got even angrier for getting beat by the ones just defending their existence.
    All the Geth wanted to do was build a big station that would essentially become their home planet and the Quarians came along again and fucked it up.
    ===
    “It wasn’t the face, it was his armored chest.”
    -
    One of the shots causes his face to jerk
    ===
    “On another note, Krogans go down to individual pistol rounds all the time in the games”
    -
    Which doesn’t match to the lore given about them. Which would if I understand correctly would be moments of PIS right?

  81. Krypto Lowk March 17, 2013 at 2:27 am -      #4481

    “One of the shots causes his face to jerk”
    -
    It’s the third or forth shot shep takes.

  82. Krypto Lowk March 17, 2013 at 3:08 am -      #4482

    Another biotic moment, lift and cause the collector to explode probably with a biotic detonation. So some of the human(non-Jack) biotics are trained pretty well.
    There’s aso singularity holding up a few people(2:47)
    and cryo ammo frozen people breaking into pieces when shot(2:28).
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wlHjNn3gfpQ
    That said, not a fan of the movie but I liked the action and what they did with the ending. It was sort of like parts of Halo legends.

  83. Mr. happy March 17, 2013 at 10:38 am -      #4483

    i just watched the whole movie is the ending scene Palaven? looks like it and i have to admit biotics are powerful and the cerebus guy is a jerk

  84. the_man_with The_Answers March 17, 2013 at 2:05 pm -      #4484

    “Thats more to the fact that he’s both”
    -
    That would be the point.
    -
    “When was this stated?”
    -
    With all the dumbfounded looks people give when Skarr pulverizes someone against the wall or flips multi-ton vehicles.
    -
    “If anything it’s probably do to his reputation as one of the better Spectres. Spectres are those types that nobody really wants to fuck with.”
    -
    True, but the point stands that non-biotics are still a threat to even powerful biotics.
    -
    “Hendel Mitra is a regular biotic/retired alliance marine, with the same training the rest of of the biotics got.”
    -
    The same training doesn’t mean the same ability. Commander Shepard got the same training as other Alliance soldiers, and other N7 soldiers, but he is obviously a tier ahead of them.
    also, was this from Deception or was it from Ascension, because that matters a lot.
    -
    I’ll have to take a look at the videos another time, my internet doesn’t particularly like playing videos with its whopping 64kb/s downdload speeds.
    -
    “The monastery isn’t there to hone their biotic abilitie tp make them powerful. It’s basically a mental institute. It’s job is to make them less dangerous, not more.”
    -
    Too bad Samara’s duaghters are considered to be the more deadly variation of the “disease,” in which they get more and more powerful for every person they “mate” with. Falere most likely hasn’t dominated anyone in her lifetime, meaning she wouldn’t be any stronger than anyone else, and that shows in how she can’t just pulverize any Reaper in her path. Morinth, who has spent centuries becoming more powerful through “mating,” still only reaches Samara’s level. That’s a pretty big gap in biotic ability.
    -
    “While fluid and mobile, asari can’t stand up in a firestorm the way a krogan, turian, or human could. Since their units are small and typically lack heavy armor and support weapons, they are almost incapable of fighting a conventional war, particularly one of a defensive nature.”
    -
    Do you know why this is? Because the biotics that are anywhere close to Miranda, Jack, Samara, Morinth, Skarr, and Shepard are crazy rare. Like I said, if biotics were anywhere near as strong as what Skarr and Jack have portrayed, the Asari would steam-roll everyone else in ground warfare. If they could all casually tear apart heavy mechs and toss around multi-ton vehicles, any and all infantry would never stand a chance ever.
    -
    “They are basically glass cannons, with a smaller military compared to the Turian or Krogan, who in addition to being more equipped have biotics of there own.
    They aren’t invincible and they are out numbered/gunned.
    I could kick through a field of puppies with relative ease. It’s a whole nother story if there happen to be grown dogs and their angry owners are around and able to swarm me while I’m trying to kick angry puppies.”
    -
    You are just reiterating my point, but in the case of Skarr being a typical example, you wouldn’t be kicking puppies, you would be driving a car over them. In your analogy, trained Asari fighting typical grunts would be like a person kicking regular sized dogs (You can take a few, but that’s it), Turians and special forces would be like trying to kick wolves (That’s not going to end well), and Krogans and SPARTANs would be like trying to take on a black bear or tiger.
    Krogans, even the basic soldiers, are generally considered a greater threat than Asari infantry, and for those same reasons SPARTANs would be too.
    -
    “Compared to asari soldiers who likely have several more years of training and experience then her. Yet somehow you believe they are less powerful then the one who spent most of them studying? Liara seems like an okay example of what a trained Asari(military) is capable of.”
    -
    Except, you know, where she takes on an Asari Spectre, you know, the best of the elite of the race. Nobody on Shepard’s squad should ever be considered as “typical” or “representative of the whole.” Probably the most typical of the squad are James and Ashely, one of which is clearly a great soldier and fit for N7, and the other is the second human spectre…
    -
    “Again, I bring up who it was essentially raised by. A race of egotistical tyrant cthulus.”
    -
    *who specifically designed the AI to find a way for synthetics to stop killing organic creators. I could hate every file on my computer, but if I design something to specifically protect my files, I would not have had “wipe my hardrive clean every 5 days, but keep a few modified files to remind me of the ones that got deleted.
    -
    “No one does. But he has giant monsters ships”
    -
    —[The Point]—>
    {Clouds} {clouds} {clouds}
    (Your Head)
    -
    “She wasn’t as intelligent at that point, was in the process of gaining awareness while under attack,”
    -
    Only under attack because she started the attack in the first place…
    -
    “Near the end of the war The Alliance started producing combat AI units like EDI’s current state.”
    -
    I doubt they each have their own advanced frigate housing the actual AI. IMO they seem like advanced combat VIs in “EDI Bodies,” but they have only been in production for like, what, a few months at most? It isn’t super valid to claim they won’t turn on their creators when they haven’t existed long enough to really do so. And again, exception rather than the rule. Or should I point out again the countless synthetics rebelling against their creators that the Leviathans saw. Or Javik’s experience with synthetics. The fact that EDI and the Geth aren’t genocidal monsters is mind-blowing for people in Mass Effect.
    -
    “Who were basically the same as cultist following a false god aka Sovereign.”
    -
    Doesn’t change the fact that a good portion of Geth decided genociding organics was a good idea.
    -
    “That more on the Quarians though.
    They attacked them, got beat, got even angrier for getting beat by the ones just defending their existence.
    All the Geth wanted to do was build a big station that would essentially become their home planet and the Quarians came along again and fucked it up.”
    -
    The Geth, while sort of justified, don’t really have clean hands. Remember the very start of the war? Sure, the Quarians may have started it, but the Geth cranked it to 11. You don’t go from a major power to “A few million survivors fleeing” from only killing military assets. At that point, the Geth must have been indiscriminately killing civilians as well as military personel. Not only that, but no survivors were left on Rannoch and no evacuation is perfect. That means they hunted down and killed the survivors on Rannoch.
    -
    Not to mention they never considered actually communicating with anyone after centuries, despite being strong enough to present themselves/have a voice, and intellectually capable enough to actually talk diplomacy. To be fair, the Geth never alerted anyone that their giant mega-structure was just a server-home for them, not some giant weapon, and after you completed a near complete genocide, that stuff sorta calls for an explanation.
    -
    “One of the shots causes his face to jerk”
    -
    Because being hit with point-blank rounds from a powerful pistol never causes bodily reactions anywhere except where the bullet hits.

  85. Krypto Lowk March 17, 2013 at 4:54 pm -      #4485

    “That would be the point.”
    -
    You stated beacuse they reacted with holy hell krogan biotic that would qualify him as an uber biotics. When it treated more like he’s just a mixture of biotic and krogan. Not uber biotic.
    ===
    “With all the dumbfounded looks people give when Skarr pulverizes someone against the wall or flips multi-ton vehicles.”
    -
    They were dumbfonded because they were caught by surprise by an unexpected maneuver. Humanity was still fairly new to biotics by the time of the events.
    And besides anyone who has seen that type of shit happen around him before is going to be would probably have the same reaction when theyget to see it in person.
    ===
    “True, but the point stands that non-biotics are still a threat to even powerful biotics.”
    -
    I don’t think I stated that they couldn’t…. Did I pretty sure I didn’t? I think I even stated they weren’t invincible. Hell even Jack has to take cover once and a while or rest.
    Biotic are powerful creatures but still creatures. They just are more Dangerous to try and kill. Especially if they are armored, have back up, and equipped with weapons.
    ===
    “Commander Shepard got the same training as other Alliance soldiers, and other N7 soldiers, but he is obviously a tier ahead of them.”
    -
    Everytime it’s mentioned he’s just consdered biotic. He does have advanced military training but nothing stating he’s some sort of advanced biotic or had advanced biotic training.
    ===
    “was this from Deception or was it from Ascension, because that matters a lot.”
    -
    I vowed not to read Deception till the rewrite.
    ===
    “Do you know why this is?”
    -
    Because of the reasons I mentioned and stated by the codex.
    ===
    ” If they could all casually tear apart heavy mechs and toss around multi-ton vehicles, any and all infantry would never stand a chance ever.”

    Also It took a few seconds to charge up for the APC attack and he had to get within 10 meters.
    So add range and charge to limiting factors.
    -They would have to get close to said heavy vehicles without being blasted to bits(Note stated lack of heavy armor)
    -There is a charge time limiting that kind of power from just being used casually(which work a lot better with hit/run+stealth tactics they are stated to use).
    ===
    “—[The Point]—>
    {Clouds} {clouds} {clouds}
    (Your Head)”
    -
    I meant it as a joke…. I thought at least the video would be funny.
    Seriously though No one does. I thought I made that clear with even calling “the intelligence” flawed.
    ===
    “you wouldn’t be kicking puppies, you would be driving a car over them.”
    -
    A car would be to quick to fit the analogy. I would have to wind up my kick like he charged his attack.
    ===
    “Nobody on Shepard’s squad should ever be considered as “typical” or “representative of the whole.” Probably the most typical of the squad are James and Ashely, one of which is clearly a great soldier and fit for N7, and the other is the second human spectre…”
    -
    Jacob and Kaiden. One of which was a alliance marine the other was using an outdated biotic implant.
    Also Essex the human biotic in the video uses a biotic detonation(mixing two biotic attacks) something just about any trained or military biotic seems to be able to do and it cause the collector to explode.
    Are we at least in agreement that biotics are still a danger to other soldiers right? I mean even neglecting ability to charge up enough energy for the apc event like blast they still have shown to kill armored soldiers and have other attacks that focused less on pure power that are just as dangerous but less destructive.
    ===
    “I doubt they each have their own advanced frigate housing the actual AI.”
    -
    Probably not.
    ===
    “It isn’t super valid to claim they won’t turn on their creators when they haven’t existed long enough to really do so.”
    -
    Well the reason behind EVA was to make AI them more loyal. Or you could be right.
    Though given the ending didn’t mention anything about another AI revolt it doesn’t seem like they did.
    Guess we just have to wait to see how bioware handles that in the next title in the MEverse.
    ===
    “Doesn’t change the fact that a good portion of Geth decided genociding organics was a good idea.”
    -
    Weren’t the heretics only around like 5 percent of the geth? How is that a “good portion”?
    And it was more following Sovereign, they even worked with organics when they were doing it.
    So crazy cultist splinter group following false deity seem more fitting then being anti-organic.
    ===
    “Sure, the Quarians may have started it, but the Geth cranked it to 11.”
    -
    Quarians imprisoned and killed there own people who sided with the Geth, and tried to kill Geth trying to surrender to protect the ones trying to save them. Pretty sure Quarians took it to eleven first.
    ===
    “You don’t go from a major power to “A few million survivors fleeing” from only killing military assets. At that point, the Geth must have been indiscriminately killing civilians as well as military personel.”
    -
    They kept fighting and only left when they couldn’t anymore because they were dwindled down to that.
    It shown that when they were no longer being attacked they spared the what was left of the quarians and let them leave. Like I said before some even tried to hand themselves over rather then subject civilians danger.
    ===
    “Not to mention they never considered actually communicating with anyone after centuries, despite being strong enough to present themselves/have a voice, and intellectually capable enough to actually talk diplomacy.”
    -
    They chose isolation rather then face uncertainty and developed. Besides by then the galaxy had already made up there mind and then sovereign came along and got some geth cutlist and made things worse.
    +
    They can’t exactly try to talk nice with everyone when everyone’s first instinct is to
    A. Shoot them.
    B. Think that they are all the boogey man.
    C. Dissect and study them.
    ===
    “To be fair, the Geth never alerted anyone that their giant mega-structure was just a server-home for them, not some giant weapon, and after you completed a near complete genocide, that stuff sorta calls for an explanation.”
    -
    Yeah, nobody listened to they guy that save the cradle of galactic civilization when he told them it wasn’t the Geth they should be worried about until they actually needed them.
    You really think the thing they would believe anything coming from the very thing they fear.
    They needed a galactic threat before they actually came to terms that they were okay.
    ===
    “Because being hit with point-blank rounds from a powerful pistol never causes bodily reactions anywhere except where the bullet hits.”
    -
    You can actually see where the hits happen, one of them was on his head when it jerks.

    The order goes chest, shoulder, chest again, head, shoulder again, hump.

  86. Krypto Lowk March 17, 2013 at 4:59 pm -      #4486

    Would these things be still pertaining to the halo vs mass effect debate? They seem kind of like Mass effect specific topics or something reserved for the ‘ME/halo combined what if’ or topia kind of discussion.

  87. BC March 18, 2013 at 8:03 am -      #4487

    -
    “ They seem to be the exception rather than the rule. The Leviathans, for god knows how long, observed the same process of synthetics killing their organic creators (So much so that it became a major problem that needed solving). Javik even notes synthetics killing their organic creators on multiple occasions. Even in the case of the Geth, they were about to take out the Quarians if it weren’t for Shepard, and a large group of heretics wanted to genocide the galaxy. Even in EDI’s early days on the Luna base, she was very anti-organic. “
    -
    The way it is presented it appears to be a case of culture clash as much as anything else. All of the examples I have seen have been either the difference in interpretation between the creators and the created (like the Reapers coming up with the plan they did to get the job done) or the fact that most often the biological created the AIs as servants but improved their intelligence to the point where they became a people of their own who in turn wanted their freedom. In the latter case the paranoia and bad press from the Reaper situation would have quickly turned the situation very ugly once the machines stopped obeying and started arguing. The next step would almost inevitably be bloodshed if both sides were not made to stop and negotiate by an outside party (which was lacking due to the history).
    -
    -
    “ Oh, yeah, that’s right! I forgot that the UNSC uses that other sniper rifle that has never been mentioned anywhere ever for their mainline troops! The one we’re talking about totally isn’t the most commonly used one in the UNSC! It is totally never used against people, like how Tango company totally didn’t use sniper teams with these rifles against 12 year old S-IIs who had no armor support at all, not even augmentations! An APFSDS rounds are never depicted as wrecking the shit they hit, especially not infantry that is armored like just about all infantry in Halo and Mass Effect!
    You’ve seriously got to be kidding me. “
    -
    I have no idea how common the weapon is supposed to be, all they ever seem to show in the cutscenes and FUD are the battle rifles and carbines, not this “most common” sniper rifle. If the UNSC wants to use a rifle that fires ammunition that is good at breaking machinery but very ill-suited to killing people that is their problem. What I said about the over-penetration problem is still true; the penetrator dart would pass through most biological people with very little kinetic energy transfer (in other words it is all penetration and very little stopping power). It might make a good anti-Geth weapon if the Geth’s barrier was down, but it would not be really great against anyone else unless the round happened to put a small hole in an organ that cannot take a small hole and still function.
    -
    I suppose it does make a little bit of sense where everyone wears power armor, though the ballistic softsuits shown in FUD and in shipboard cutscenes would not provide enough resistance to the dart to keep it from doing the clean pass through like it would an unarmored human. In fact FUD makes it look like the UNSC forces use something like the “designated marksman” concept more often than special purpose snipers with a totally different weapon and ammo than the rest of the squad anyway.
    -
    Some of the armor in Mass Effect is quite heavy (Shepard’s N7 suit is a good example though there are heavier suits out there), but more often it is flexible ballistic cloth with possibly a few plates in strategic locations (or at least it is in the novels anyway). They rely on the kinetic barriers more than the armor, and the barriers actually would handle the APFSDS darts better than they would the original Russian slugs since they go faster. The best projectiles to use against the barriers are the extreme ends of the speed scale, either slow very heavy rounds to smash through where the field cannot get a good grip on it or railgun fast to overload and drain the field. The dart falls neatly into the middle ground and so would lose most or all of its energy to the field’s effect.

    “ And wtf does this have to do with Frigates closing distance? Are we stupidly comparing Halo Frigates to ME Cruisers now? Because my whole point is that people act as though Halo frigates having to close distance is some obscene weakness, when ME Frigates literally have to do the same exact thing. “
    -
    It has little to do with frigates closing distance, the original point was that the flight time of the MAC round makes it have a shorter effective range than the ME accelerators do. ME ships can sit outside of the Halo ships effective range and so get many more hits on Halo ships than Halo ships can get on ME ships, and the ME ships higher maneuverability (like being able to actually make parabolic turns instead of pure thrust vectoring) make it unlikely that Halo would be able to get very close unless the ME admiral makes a serious maneuvering blunder. The point of frigates having to close to knife-fight ranges was not in contention.
    -
    -
    Except that’s not, in any way, how the Leviathans were thinking. Their response to the “solution” was a big fat “FUCK” while the Reapers continued the trend of Synthetics killing their organic creators.
    -
    You have the cart and the horse reversed; I was referring to how the Leviathans initially programed them, not to their reaction to the ‘solution’ the Reapers came up with later.
    -
    -
    “ Probably because she already did. Remember the Luna base? That may not be the case now, but even EDI followed the trend. Also, “Artificials like EDI” are exceedingly rare, like so rare that EDI is basically one of a kind. Essentially, for every “EDI” there are many more counter-examples of synthetics going batshit. “
    -
    Again, they are not going crazy like a Halo AI, they are following their instructions according to how they understand them. Like EDI, once they understand and align with the human (or whatever their creators are) point of view they are an asset instead of a danger. It is a cultural problem, not a technological one except in that the creators do not always understand exactly how their creations think and so conflicts in interpretation result.
    -
    -
    “ Except for, you know, the Heretics. “
    -
    The Heretics simply had a different opinion on how to defend themselves and develop as a people than the rest of the Geth. Opinions and choice go hand in hand with intelligence.
    -
    -
    “ It took Commander-Fucking-Shepard, the most convincing person in the Mass Effect galaxy, to stop them from killing each other. Not a great way to prove how easily Organics and Synthetics get along. “
    -
    And this is a surprise? I pointed out the difficulty of overcoming the prejudice and bad press already.
    -
    -
    “ Yup, nerfed right down to:
    -Von-nueman cheap-as-shit infantry units meant to over-Flood the Flood by turning organics into ….. “
    -
    Which did little good against MC with his much less impressive tech. And most of it was destroyed by the end of the game anyway from what I hear.
    -
    -
    “ True, but the point stands that non-biotics are still a threat to even powerful biotics. “
    -
    Of course. Biotics are a powerful tool and weapon but victory does not always go the stronger. Ever hear of David and Goliath?

  88. Krypto Lowk March 18, 2013 at 10:40 pm -      #4488

    “but more often it is flexible ballistic cloth with possibly a few plates in strategic locations”
    -
    Armor seems to cover most of the body except around spots like joints, points where it would mess up flexibility.
    ===
    “They rely on the kinetic barriers more than the armor”
    -
    I think that’s actually a preference. Some have access to more powerful barriers and then there are some who wear more armor. They rely just as much on armor as barriers.
    I think your thinking of just the light armors. Like what Kasumi or Liara(Broker style) wear.

  89. BC March 19, 2013 at 3:40 pm -      #4489

    “ I think that’s actually a preference. Some have access to more powerful barriers and then there are some who wear more armor. They rely just as much on armor as barriers.
    I think your thinking of just the light armors. Like what Kasumi or Liara(Broker style) wear. “
    -
    It could be, the novels are more descriptive than the games for the most part but they center on specialists and not front line commandos like the game does so they do not go into heavy armors much I think. Unfortunately the books just use the term “body armor” for everything from very lightly armored clothing style stuff up to Krogan assault suits. The main character is a scientist (Kahlee Sanders) and except for a single landing party strike mission at the beginning of the first book Anderson was either working undercover or working for the diplomatic corps so he was usually in light or medium there I assume.
    -
    The heavier armor in that strike was extremely durable, nothing NATO short of an M2 machinegun would do much to them, and the M2 would have to hose them down for a few seconds at least to actually get a kill I would imagine (a single ME G-912 assault rifle took about four seconds to pound a mercs torso KE barrier down and tear up the chest armor enough to get a killing shot through; legs and arms are quicker to penetrate but are not sure kills). Even if the Halo NATO rounds were powerful enough to actually do something useful, with only 30 or so rounds per clip instead of the ME weapons 4000 rounds I doubt they would have enough ammo in a single clip to make a kill and the time needed to change clips would allow the target to duck into cover or whatever.
    -
    I get the impression from the battle descriptions (and they do seem to match game tactics) that the armor itself is more for low velocity protection like some types of shrapnel, some explosives with a low enough pressure wave velocity to leak through the field, and slow moving contact weapons like melee weapons or slow moving micro-grenades. They also are helpful when getting thrown around by explosions or getting the floor blown out from under oneself on balconies and whatnot. Of course that impression could be from the books’ concentration on people who would use light armor types.
    -
    In the battle on the Quarian ship against boarding parties when Sanders was in a modified Quarian suit she would get hit in the barrier a few times and then duck back into cover to let the field regenerate, a tactic the invaders used as well. The only way to stop them was to double-team them in a crossfire so they could not get cover from both and take the field down, the barrier would recover enough in a typical whack a mole style pop up and shoot firefight to drag it on for a relatively long time otherwise.

  90. erickyboo March 19, 2013 at 10:08 pm -      #4490

    Just unleash the flood/precursors… Problem solved… Reapers go kill and infect mass effect…

  91. SgCombine March 19, 2013 at 10:18 pm -      #4491

    ^
    What did Silentium reveal about the flood, I heard they can infect machines and slipspace now? Wtf is that all about?

  92. UnauditedCloud March 19, 2013 at 11:04 pm -      #4492

    It was heavily implied in the Halo:Universe novel that the flood could assimilate A.I’s

  93. erickyboo March 19, 2013 at 11:58 pm -      #4493

    The logic plague, yes they passed on the corruption to other machines. The reapers would surely fall… The geth seem to be more susceptible then I think…. How’s does their communication work again?

  94. Virgil March 20, 2013 at 12:24 am -      #4494

    @UnauditedCloud
    -
    Wow, I leave for a couple months and,.. Just kidding, great job guys on holding the fort.., And beefing it up ALOT! Wow. Anywho, question for you Unaudited. What Halo: Universe novel are you referring to?

  95. IamTaco March 20, 2013 at 1:29 am -      #4495

    [SPOILERS INBOUND; YOU'VE BEEN WARNED]

    – It’s apparent that the Forerunners went to war with the Precursors some ten million years before (prior to an unmentioned dark ages), sending hundreds of thousands of warships roughly 170 million light years from the Milky Way to fight them. The Precursors, being formless immortals expressed in space and time – said to rise from the dust in whatever form they wish to occupy – allowed themselves to be destroyed, noting that the experience would sweeten all experience across time and space and form the Domain.

    The Precursors have a very Eldritch-esque attitude to them, seeking revenge on a complex scale that defies human understanding by any measure.

    – The Gravemind is not the final form of the Flood, just a useful threshold. The final form is known as a Key Mind, a culmination of such biomass and intellect that it can eventually out-process a Contender class. The Key Mind possesses a form of esoteric logic plague that subverts AI on contact even without the presence of a Gravemind. Eventually mere proximity to other Flood forms or infected AI is sufficient to spread the logic plague and instantly turn native systems against their masters. This also works on augmented members of the Catalog rate. During Didact’s encounter with the Gravemind a member of the Judiciary is physically absorbed into the Gravemind himself, mind raped and spat back out; solely for the purpose of opening private FTL communications channels and spreading the logic virus across what remains of the galactic internet. Their response to this?

    “Shut it down! Shut it down! Promise me you’ll never loo – Argh! My brain!”

    – Speaking of which, the Juridical rates are finally introduced. Although little is known of their caste, several of their members appear to serve as a form of punishment for past crimes, stripped of their bodies and augmented with multi-armed machine carapaces that allow them to continuously investigate and collect data and testimony without cessation – even at the cost of their lives. Referred to informally as Catalogs, one member the Ur-Didact encountered was once a Miner who reduced a planet to rubble with his creche mate on it out of petty revenge, including twelve of his crew.

    – The Forerunner-Flood war was completely different to how we ever imagined. Yes, they subverted AI and Forerunners and yielded their own ships against them in staggering numbers, but that’s only half of it. The great big unbending, invincible, timeless filaments that Bear introduced in book one? Precursor God weapons that the Flood could pilot. Not only do they create giant solar system suppression fields across two thirds of the galaxy, thus causing any Forerunner ships in their vicinity to power down, lose their native AI and become irresistible to Flood nomming all the while activating beacons on other populated worlds, but they can fly across the galaxy using Precursor FTL (some sort of bizarre neural physics based form of transportation) and ram targets at one third light speed. The Flood had enough these unbreakable filaments that they could blanket the galaxy and literally block out the stars. Battles waged in filament occupied space were said to be so intense that it left nothing more than molten rocks where whole planets used to be.

    Essentially two thirds of the entire galactic population was left in a “Burn”, a state that describes a Forerunner that has no functioning armor, no AI, no workable transportation or slipspace access and puts up as much fight as a newborn. Flood bait.

    – The final battle between Offensive and Mendicant? Offensive was stated to be packing a small fleet considering the circumstances, and was merely holding off the Flood who were now spread out across the galaxy. He managed to slave his processing power to the lesser Ark, giving him ample opportunity to outmaneuver Mendicant on his own terms.

    – Now do you want to hear some of the depressing parts? I could go on for hours, but these were some that stood out to me.

    A) The Key Minds retained the memories of everyone ever absorbed, and could project their personalities across the galaxy to whomever they wished. At one point the Flood – through Didact – projects Faber’s absorbed family onto him and tries to break his spirit. Needless to say, seeing the absorbed personalities of his dead daughters telling him to give up righteously pissed him off.

    B) The end of the war immediately settled down Slipspace, long enough for surviving pockets of Forerunners to emerge and beg for help across the FTL comm systems, but not long enough for them to be saved before the Halo effect hit them.

    C) Just before the wave hit 343 Guilty Spark noticed an inbound comm signal from a newly formed FTL civilization, the welcome message lasted just long enough for them wave hello to the neighbors and ask for a cup of sugar just before the Halo effect silenced them forever.

    Written by Rama of spacebattles.

  96. Virgil March 20, 2013 at 1:44 am -      #4496

    @IamTaco
    -
    Wow… Where did you get this from?

  97. erickyboo March 20, 2013 at 1:52 am -      #4497

    Halo silentium gek.
    I have yet to finish my summary.
    Lets just not sugarcoat too much.

    One thing though, if the forerunners stuff was powered by alternate realities being ended for power, wouldn’t that mean that any faction that has alternate reality powers could just be nullified by forerunner power supplies?

    What I’m interested in knowing is what remains for current incarnation because we’re using current incarnation.

  98. Virgil March 20, 2013 at 2:01 am -      #4498

    @Erickyboo
    -
    I officially can’t wait till I get my copy… It’s on its way!

  99. OriginalA March 20, 2013 at 2:09 am -      #4499

    Wow…. Halo took a sharp turn at the stupid intersection.
    -
    The only thing that makes this even stupider is that A) the Forerunners will get nerfed to hell and back in order for the UNSC to stand a chance against them, and B) either the Flood will be crippled beyond repair by the Forerunners long before the events of Halo or the Flood will always be this super massive threat that can instantly win just chooses not to because lulz.
    -
    Both are stupid.
    -
    I can’t believe I’m going to say this but, I’m getting the feeling that Karen Travis is actually the current author that is doing the least amount of damage to the Halo series at the moment. Whoever is writing those Forerunner books is killing the series with his wanking.
    -
    Note to the fanboys: That is not a criticism against his ability to write or his imagination. That is a criticism against his ability to prevent power creep. He is causing the Forerunners and the Flood to be such large problems that they would be completely out of context threats to the Haloverse in its current form. … and yet the Forerunners are coming back and because of this huge disparity (as well as the requirement for Master Chief to win) there is going to be huge inevitable retcons that are going to weaken the Forerunners… and that’s terrible. It would have been far better just to write them weaker in the first place; consistency matters!
    -
    Also, TOTALLY CALLED IT!!! 343 industries is totally screwing up the Haloverse!

  100. Krypto Lowk March 20, 2013 at 2:13 am -      #4500

    Halo, now officially crazier then Mass Effect’s space magic.
    That read like Stargate or star trek stuff.

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