Halo Vs Mass Effect

Halo Vs Mass Effect

Here we have a clash of two Sci-Fi franchises looking for bragging rights. I don’t know enough about the Mass Effect universe to give a fair estimation on who would win, so I’ll leave it to the good hands of the BankGambling readers.

Who wins?

Related Posts:

SHARE THIS POST

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Myspace
  • Google Buzz
  • Reddit
  • Stumnleupon
  • Delicious
  • Digg
  • Technorati
Author: admin View all posts by
1 42 43 44

4,386 Comments on "Halo Vs Mass Effect"

  1. Lowk Vi Britannia January 18, 2013 at 8:09 am -      #4301

    I don’t think ME Ships would try to engage at Star Trek like laser fights with Halo. Frigates/fighters might swoop in for bombing runs with stuff like disruptor torps but sustain close quarters engagements just don’t seem wise. Like having a slap fight with a polar bear.
    ===
    “Holy crap, spaceship knife fights are actually a thing.”
    -
    Knives sure. Also Axes.
    rpggamer.org/uploaded_images/g_p-outlaw-star-remastered-24x26452f63298mkv-00000.jpg

  2. Mr. happy January 18, 2013 at 8:38 am -      #4302

    dont tell me there’s maces

  3. IamTaco January 18, 2013 at 8:58 am -      #4303

    ‘Halo 4 slipspace FTL jumps are stupid fast. Like, unexplained, powered by the plot, typical Halo bullshit sloppy writing fast. Literally, they move as fast as the plot demands it for no other reason than just because. The UNSC got their upgrade cause Forerunner tech; the Covenant don’t have an excuse ; they are just there and are as fast as they need to be.’
    -
    ‘The UNSC went from something like 300 ly/month to 262000 ly/month. Yeah… it’s stupid fast. … That’s a low estimate. High estimates would actually put them faster than the Relays.’
    -
    Cry more will you? Unexplained? Glasslands and the thursday war had entire chapters where they stated how the forerunner tech they had and the Huragok would help upgrade their slipspace drives and allow them to go much faster. And it’s common sense too. If you have a bunch of forerunner tech lying around why not upgrade your ship with them? So why are crying so much? The covenant are explained from the very start of the series to be imitative not innovative so it would also make sense why they would never upgrade their slipspace drives. In fact it’s very consistent considering that high end post war UNSC FTL speeds actually fits in with what we know of forerunner insane FTL speed.
    -
    Stop whining so much. Would you prefer it if 343 didn’t change the UNSC FTL speed? No, you would probably still complain ‘WTF! Why is the UNSC FTL not faster?! They have a bunch of forerunner tech and have a bunch of forerunner Huragok building stuff for them. Why not upgrade the slipspace drives. The UNSC are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO stuipd’
    -
    ‘I would like proof of Halo using tactic FTL jumps. Cause the only mid-battle FTL jumps I’ve seen were in Halo 2, which was a retreat and it wasn’t exactly in reaction to something, and Halo 4, where it seemed to me that the Infinity just so happened to have exited FTL inside an enemy fleet formation by accident rather than on purpose. So, yeah, pony up some evidence for that one.’
    -
    I don’t have the books but in Halo: fall of reach two tactic FTL jumps were performed by the Covenant. And that’s was with their now inferior slipspace drives and lack of A.I. One was used to close the gap between an UNSC ship and get into combat range. It when from about 15 million kilometers to about 5000km? away from the UNSC ship in a matter of seconds. Next was when a covenant ship jumped to literally a kilometer right behind the pillar of autumn. Captain keyes also mentioned that if he had a more accurate slipspace drive he could have made a slipspace jump and arrive at the battle of Reach much earlier. Then in halo first strike again tactic FTL jump into a entire covenant armada. Halo 4 again tactic FTL jump into a Covenant fleet and RAM!
    -
    Shitty weapon range.
    -
    Tactic FTL jump.
    -
    Slow ass weapons.
    -
    Tactic FTL jump.
    -
    Crappy shields.
    -
    KBs are crappier.
    -
    An implicate speed disadvantage.
    -
    FTL is a nono. Sub-light speeds? You have any proof on that?
    -
    ‘ME ships have an effective combat range against Halo ships that puts the ME ships some 1000+ times the Halo effective range. Halo ships are rediculously bad at everything except sheer firepower and bullshit FTL when compared to ME ships, and the ME ships can make up for the sheer firepower by being able to deliver effective fire on target at a range that is about 1000 times beyond the effective range of the Haloverse ship’s weapons range when those shitty weapons are used against their own shitty ships. When used against ME ships they are going to have to get even closer in order to effectively aim.’
    -
    Tactic FTL jump.
    -
    Basically. A haloverse ship has a better chance at ramming a ME ship instead of shooting it, cause their guns suck that much.
    -
    Good thing Halo 4 has the UNSC using tactic FTL jumps to get so close to the target that they can and have actually RAMMED A SHIP TO DEATH.
    -
    Also you got any proof on how ME can win? Cuz all you got is a bunch of random stuff and proclaiming that ME wins. How about an actual argument on how ME can win against halo or provide a strategy that allows ME to win? Cuz I don’t think ME can win or are even winning as of now.
    -
    ‘“Are they losing? I thought Halo was the one with the advantages in space I thought.”
    -
    I thought Halo was winning due to superior space capabilities last I heard, granted that was a long time ago’
    -
    Yeah, in space they have every advantage expect in weapon ranges and their Tactic FTL jumps solves that problem very nicely.
    -
    ‘so halo might win in a melee while ME wins in ranged unless halo can tac jump close to engage in a melee’
    -
    Think of ME as a guy with a gun while Halo is a guy with a sword. ME would win every time because of the range advantage even though both weapons would one-shot both of them. However now Halo has a device that can teleport him,undetected right next to ME instantly where his knife can actually be used effectively.

  4. IamTaco January 18, 2013 at 9:20 am -      #4304

    ‘The final battles are around key strategic points where retreat wasn’t exactly an option.’
    -
    ‘I don’t think shield and repairs take nanoseconds to recharge/repair. They also have to discharge and if they’ve been fighting for a while they would need to cool down some before they jump back into battle.’
    -
    Start of ME2 and the destiny ascension says hello. Why didn’t they FTL the heck out of there? Also when I said nanosecond I mean they only need to engage their FTL drive for about a nanosecond to be out of combat range and out of danger. This allows them to stay in the same system too. It’s not retreating, since they would only be out of combat for a few seconds while their KBs recharge and they can FTL back into battle with fresh KBs. But that doesn’t happen ever.
    -
    ‘In the Jeff portion of ME2, right after he returned power they quickly went FTL to retreat’
    -
    It’s a outliner. Also there are alot of unknowns. For example maybe they have to prep/charge the FTL drive before making a jump and the drive/element zero core was areally charged and ready to go once he hit the button. Or maybe the FTL drive needs a precise navigation route to activate and EDI was ready with it once Joker hit the button. Or a combination of both. I like the needs to charge up the FTL drive/element zero core before making a FTL jump though as it would explain why they don’t make FTL jumps in the middle of combat as even in the face of certain destruction(See the start of ME2 and the destiny ascension) as they don’t have extra power to charge the FTL drive.
    -
    ‘Note I said quickly. Not “instantly”, “spontaneously”, or “lol FTLbutton”.’
    -
    The thing is how quickly? I never said that they can’t use it at all.

  5. The Expert January 18, 2013 at 9:28 am -      #4305

    “Think of ME as a guy with a gun while Halo is a guy with a sword. ME would win every time because of the range advantage even though both weapons would one-shot both of them. However now Halo has a device that can teleport him,undetected right next to ME instantly where his knife can actually be used effectively.”

    you see i doubt that because the krogen and the yahg are the more big and bad people of the mass effect universe and i doubt they’d just stay behind and watch the fireworks. +mass effect guns foucuse on kimetic energy which means they do way more damage then plasma given the chance and i wont even noitfy the reapers.

  6. Mr. happy January 18, 2013 at 9:39 am -      #4306

    @the expert the example was on space combat thanks taco
    -
    krogans do not have a fleet it was dismantled by the turians so unless they go ahead with ground engagements, the krogan will not get any action

  7. The Expert January 18, 2013 at 9:56 am -      #4307

    They wouldn’t be so stupid not to pick the krogen troops on tunchunka and drop them off at the battlefield. how did you think they got on earth in ME3

  8. Mr. happy January 18, 2013 at 10:10 am -      #4308

    that’s what i meant with going ahead with ground engagements,if either side wins the space battle there may be no need to have a ground engagement just nuke the planet unless you want to capture it intact. the unsc will probably just nuke it

  9. The Expert January 18, 2013 at 10:15 am -      #4309

    How many nukes do they have in all??

  10. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets January 18, 2013 at 12:10 pm -      #4310

    @The Expert I love your gravitar. That’s Boss from the cover of Triple Zero, right?

  11. The Expert January 18, 2013 at 12:40 pm -      #4311

    no its a clone comando and thanks

  12. Lowk Vi Britannia January 18, 2013 at 3:08 pm -      #4312

    “It’s a outliner. Also there are alot of unknowns. For example maybe they have to prep/charge the FTL drive before making a jump and the drive/element zero core was areally charged and ready to go once he hit the button.”
    -
    Why, Because you want it to be? The drive core was inactive, joker activates it, few seconds later FTL.

    There is also
    -The beginning after awakening and getting to the shuttle it only takes a few seconds after clearing the base for it to hit FTL.
    -Turian preformed ftl jumps mid-battle to get behind reapers.
    -Asari who are better known for guerrilla tactics used FTL for hit and runs:
    The Fall of Thessia
    “The assault on Thessia did not go as smoothly as the Reapers’ strikes against other races. While other species met the Reapers head-on, the asari resorted to dangerous hit-and-run tactics to harass their attackers. By engaging in guerilla strategies–blast a Reaper ship, then jumping to FTL where they could not be tracked–the asari forced the Reapers to remain on the defensive.”
    Ins’t that the kind of thing you were talking about?
    ===
    “The thing is how quickly?”
    -
    Seems to be a few seconds. Going by the Normandy escape scene.

  13. Lowk Vi Britannia January 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm -      #4313

    @Taco
    Why is Mass Effect’s ability to quickly jump to FTL meaningful? Aren’t they still outsped by Halo?

  14. erickyboo January 18, 2013 at 3:12 pm -      #4314

    Or MAC it…
    OriginalA seems like…

    I wonder if the halo ships have other surprises. Prowlers have point defence lasers, their camouflaging.
    The halcyon a have their refits it seems, their MACs have three shots per thingy.
    Ships have shields and improve slipspace capabilities. They can communicate while in slipspace as well, super fast.

    Also, that wasn’t a lucky ram, they knew the position of the fleet.

    I’m guessing they have many. Unspecified number but… They like nukes I guess.

  15. The Expert January 18, 2013 at 3:30 pm -      #4315

    @CH1C4N0444
    sorry that was boss from triple zero

  16. OriginalA January 18, 2013 at 4:13 pm -      #4316

    “FTL is a nono. Sub-light speeds? You have any proof on that?”
    -
    ME FTL jumps are made by their sub-light engines and altering space time to cause a sub-light bubble around the ship so that it is going sub-light speeds, but outside of the space time bubble the ship is going FTL. This puts ME sub light engines at an acceleration of zero to lightspeed within a few seconds time. By implication they can reach any speed between there depending on how much they tweak their space time bubble.
    -
    Halo ships, on the other hand, can only accelerate between 1 and 1000 g’s (depended on how fast the plot requires them to be) without using their FTL drives to surpass lightspeed. That means that in combat, when they are shooting at each other, the ME ships are going to be however fast as they need to be and the Haloships are going to be slower.

  17. Zazax January 18, 2013 at 5:11 pm -      #4317

    “Also you got any proof on how ME can win? Cuz all you got is a bunch of random stuff and proclaiming that ME wins.”
    tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatWhat
    In space ME has the advantage in every thing except for FTL speed, per-shot firepower (but wins in per-second firepower due to faster firing rate), and *maybe* numbers. Everything else is to their advantage, including sublight speed, maneuverability, effective range, durability, fire rate (and therefore DPS), even AI and cyberwarfare. How do they *not* win?

  18. erickyboo January 18, 2013 at 5:36 pm -      #4318

    Where are the numbers for halo acceleration…?
    Other than the dreadnaughts… What are the other weapons like again?
    And I just saw some of the battle of the citadel cutscene, I didn’t see ships go very fast to avoid fire and try to maneuver much.

    And what do you mean mass effect AI winning?

  19. Zazax January 18, 2013 at 6:02 pm -      #4319

    “Where are the numbers for halo acceleration…?”
    That’s up to Team Halo to provide.
    -
    “Other than the dreadnaughts… What are the other weapons like again?”
    I’m not sure we have any. Regardless, human Dreadnoughts were 38 kilotons a shot and shoot almost exactly twice as fast as MACs, which are 64 kilotons. ME eeks out a win there.
    Asari, Turians and Geth all have better ones, but we don’t know by how much. Reapers can 1-shot most of the other ME stuff.
    -
    “And what do you mean mass effect AI winning”
    Forerunners aside, since they’re not in the match, the UNSC smart AIs are the best ones I can think of in Halo.
    I see your Smart AIs and raise you one Geth Collective.
    And AIs like EDI are pretty similar to, say, Cortana, although I’m not sure how well they match up 1v1.

  20. erickyboo January 18, 2013 at 6:23 pm -      #4320

    When I get home I could get some of their feats for AIs but, that’s a frigate MAC and a dreadnaught MAC.

    Do we have any calculations on the pillar of autumn MAC?

  21. Lowk Vi Britannia January 18, 2013 at 6:48 pm -      #4321

    “Other than the dreadnaughts… What are the other weapons like again?”
    -
    Disruptor torpedoes, they use asteroids as projectiles, nuclear and antimatter warheads, Warp Bombs, nanotechnology/viral/bacterial organisms. Though CIS keeps them from using them on garden worlds(like earth).
    The also have indoctrination and cyber warfare, though that’s more support then actualy weaponry imo.
    ===
    “And I just saw some of the battle of the citadel cutscene, I didn’t see ships go very fast to avoid fire and try to maneuver much.”
    -
    Last I checked it was mostly the frigates and fighters that were the maneuverable ones. Iirc you can actually see some of them breaking off in the background.

  22. erickyboo January 18, 2013 at 9:20 pm -      #4322

    youtu.be/sFw4KPuugdg here as well. A lot of standing around.

    Cortana was able to crack 128,000 bit encryption code in just a few minutes.

    The unsc took Jul Mdama prisoner and uses him to test Sangheili crop that that they aquired and reproduced and then modified it genetically to turn it into bad crop but make it dominant. In a few days. That’s a bio weapon, from ONI.

    The UNSC uses a variety of missiles, archer, howlers and others. They use nukes, Shiva, Hyperion, Rudra, Havok. They do use space optimized nukes. They also use space mines such as hornet mines. Some ships have pulse lasers and EMP canons. They use their guns. The infinity has several mass drivers and missile battieries things, a network.

    Why did original A say that about the halo numbers? Acceleration… Hm… That’s a tricky one that I don’t know from memory but not a lot of information on it I think… There is the Keyes loop perhaps…

  23. IamTaco January 19, 2013 at 12:10 am -      #4323

    ‘Why, Because you want it to be? The drive core was inactive, joker activates it, few seconds later FTL.’
    -
    Because there was numerous other times where a FTL jump out of there could have saved their asses but they never even considered it telling me that it’s not as simple as you say.
    -
    ‘Turian preformed ftl jumps mid-battle to get behind reapers’
    -
    That was out of combat where the Turian was laying a trap for the Reapers and had more that enough time to prep the FTL drive and had a precise navigation route.
    -
    ‘“The assault on Thessia did not go as smoothly as the Reapers’ strikes against other races. While other species met the Reapers head-on, the asari resorted to dangerous hit-and-run tactics to harass their attackers. By engaging in guerilla strategies–blast a Reaper ship, then jumping to FTL where they could not be tracked–the asari forced the Reapers to remain on the defensive.”’
    -
    The problem is that we don’t know how how long it took for the asari to go FTL. They could have used their sub-light engines to retreat from the Reapers until their FTL drive was ready to use. You notice that the codex quote mentioned the word ‘dangerous’. How dangerous would it be it the asari could go FTL in a matter of seconds before the Reapers could even fire at them? In fact this tactic would be the normal form of combat in MEverse seeing how foolproof it is. The fact that it’s not tells us that it has some kind of flaw a.k.a the amount of time needed to go FTL.
    -
    ‘Seems to be a few seconds. Going by the Normandy escape scene.’
    -
    Opening cutsence of ME2 says hello.
    -
    ‘ME FTL jumps are made by their sub-light engines and altering space time to cause a sub-light bubble around the ship so that it is going sub-light speeds, but outside of the space time bubble the ship is going FTL. This puts ME sub light engines at an acceleration of zero to lightspeed within a few seconds time. By implication they can reach any speed between there depending on how much they tweak their space time bubble.’
    -
    Bullshit. They have never really used their FTL in the middle of combat before. They used it to retreat after a underdetermined amount of time, they used it to close the gap between much like halo does and that’s it. No, 50%c in the middle of combat is stupid and is never ever seen before in the MEverse. Their FTL appears to be all or nothing and they have never used their FTL in the middle of combat accept to retreat. They use their ordinary sub-light fusion/antimatter thrusters while in combat.
    -
    So any proof on ME’s sub light speeds compared to Halo’s.
    -
    ‘Why is Mass Effect’s ability to quickly jump to FTL meaningful? Aren’t they still outsped by Halo?’
    -
    Because some people seem to be thinking that it’s a get out of jail free card. But as I proved they don’t/can’t? use it like that. They can use it to retreat from a losing battle but seeing as space-battles in ME tend to last quite long…
    -
    ‘In space ME has the advantage in every thing except for FTL speed, per-shot firepower (but wins in per-second firepower due to faster firing rate), and *maybe* numbers. Everything else is to their advantage, including sublight speed, maneuverability, effective range, durability, fire rate (and therefore DPS), even AI and cyberwarfare. How do they *not* win?’
    -
    See, you’re just saying a bunch of random stuff and going ‘ME wins’
    -
    Hey I can do that too. Halo has better firepower and shields than ME. They also have greater numbers, superior tech, faster FTL and greater numbers. How can they ‘not’ win.
    -
    ‘(but wins in per-second firepower due to faster firing rate)’
    -
    Very funny. You know that those kiloton firepower figures come from the two biggest and rarest and most irreplaceable ships in the MEverse right? Reaper destroyers and frigates do not have anywhere close to kiloton firepower.Cruisers may have extremely low single kiloton firepower and that’s kind of a high end as it is. And the dreadnought is so rare that it considered a privilege for a fleet to get a single one. You act as if there’s going to be a entire fleet of dreadnoughts fighting off halo at every battle. ME would likely go back to old fleet formations and have a single dreadnought in an entire fleet of cruisers and frigates. So if halo engages one of those fleets, who do you think they are going to target first? The singular, biggest, slowest and most powerful target on the battlefield. And while the dreadnought relies on it’s KBs and range to protect itself neither is going to hamper halo much. SO RAMMING SPEED, and wow there goes your DPS machine. And as for the Reapers while they do have superior firepower and numbers to the dreadnoughts they are literally irreplaceable and every ship they lose isn’t coming back.
    -
    ‘sublight speed’
    -
    Any proof of that?
    -
    ‘effective range’
    -
    True, but tactical FTL jumps say hello.
    -
    ‘fire rate (and therefore DPS)’
    -
    Broken record aren’t you?
    -
    ‘even AI and cyberwarfare’
    -
    Don’t make me laugh. The only three kinds of A.I exist in ME. The geth, the reapers and E.D.I. The geth are not even truly sentient until the reaper code and in the events of ME3 when a fuck-ton of geth are being destroyed they appear to have less intelligence then a human. See that’s the problem with the geth, the more geth there are the more intelligent they get. However the reverse hold true. Halo manages to destroy a geth dreadnought, oops the geth’s collective I.Q gets cut in half. And as for the Reapers, remember the starchild. The most powerful A.I in ME. He appears to be even more stupid a human. And E.D.I, did I mention that she’s the only one of her kind. That 99.9%% of all the ships in ME don’t have A.I in them. As for cyber warfare, who cares. This isn’t independence day.

  24. Zazax January 19, 2013 at 12:53 am -      #4324

    “See, you’re just saying a bunch of random stuff and going ‘ME wins’”
    This has all been covered previously. If it’s news to you, maybe you should read back a bit.
    -
    “Halo has better firepower”
    Only per shot. Overall firepower output per second is lower.
    -
    “and shields”
    This is actually untrue. Covenant shields on all but the absolute largest ships go down in 1 MAC shot. Most ME ships can take more than 2 hits from their own guns (Dreadnoughts in particular are noted to engage in extended slugfests with each other), meaning their KBs are superior to Covenant shields, since 2 Dreadnought shots > 1 MAC.
    -
    “They also have greater numbers”
    We don’t really know ME’s numbers, but I did say they very well might have them. Problem is in the kind of war ME will be fighting it won’t help.
    -
    “superior tech”
    That’s a bit general, don’t you think?
    -
    “faster FTL”
    Already acknowledged. Unfortunately if they can’t do anything with that speed, they’re screwed anyways,
    -
    “and greater numbers.”
    The ‘broken record’ comment lower down is just ironic after this.
    -
    “You know that those kiloton firepower figures come from the two biggest and rarest and most irreplaceable ships in the MEverse right?”
    Human Dreadnoughts aren’t irreplaceable. It’s noted that even in ME1 the humans have the second-most Dreadnoughts out of everyone save the Turians (whose Dreads are better anyways). In ME3 the Quarians jump up there by arming every ship in the Flotilla, many of them turning into Dreadnought-equivalents.
    -
    “Cruisers may have extremely low single kiloton firepower and that’s kind of a high end as it is.”
    They one-shot Dreadnoughts, who are noted to be able to slug it out with each other. You’re going to have to explain your logic behind this.
    -
    ” And the dreadnought is so rare that it considered a privilege for a fleet to get a single one.”
    The Volus are the only race with just one Dreadnought. The Turians, Asari, Salarians and Humans all have more, and the Quarians/Geth/Reapers also have more, but we don’t know how many more.
    Geth and Reaper Dreadnoughts in particular are unusually powerful.
    -
    “You act as if there’s going to be a entire fleet of dreadnoughts fighting off halo at every battle.”
    … Says the guy saying Halo’s going to be flitting around with never-before-seen tactical Slipspace jumps in-combat.
    -
    “So if halo engages one of those fleets, who do you think they are going to target first?”
    Nobody, since they’ll die before getting into ME’s effective range..
    -
    “And while the dreadnought relies on it’s KBs and range to protect itself neither is going to hamper halo much.”
    They can deflect a MAC shot or two, easily. Which is more than can be said for Halo’s defenses.
    -
    “SO RAMMING SPEED”
    Ah yes, the final choice for a man with no options left. “If I’m going down I’m taking you with me.”
    -
    “And as for the Reapers while they do have superior firepower and numbers to the dreadnoughts they are literally irreplaceable and every ship they lose isn’t coming back.”
    You’re of course presuming the Reapers will actually lose ships. Since, you know, they’re hilariously superior to Halo ships in every way save FTL speed.
    -
    “Any proof of that?”
    ME ships can increase/decrease their own mass as needed (within certain limits, of course). Their FTL drive isn’t so much a drive as it is reducing their mass to almost zero. They actually move with their conventional engines even during FTL.
    -
    “True, but tactical FTL jumps say hello.”
    You have yet to actually provide any evidence of these.
    -
    “Broken record aren’t you?”
    Ha! Still ironic!
    -
    “and E.D.I.”
    There are other AIs like EDI, they’re just largely illegal. They’re actually apparently hilariously easy to make, since one guy on the Citadel accidentally makes one.
    -
    “The geth are not even truly sentient until the reaper code”
    … Which they now have, so what’s your point?
    -
    “See that’s the problem with the geth, the more geth there are the more intelligent they get.”
    Yes, I know how the Geth work.
    Thankfully there’s lots of Geth, and they don’t have to be smart anyways to simply overpower Halo AIs with processing power.
    -
    “And as for the Reapers, remember the starchild. The most powerful A.I in ME. He appears to be even more stupid a human.”
    Lolwut?
    -
    “And E.D.I, did I mention that she’s the only one of her kind.”
    It’s funny because she’s not.
    -
    “That 99.9%% of all the ships in ME don’t have A.I in them.”
    Compared to all those UNSC ships with Cortana-level Smart AIs on them, eh?
    -
    ” As for cyber warfare, who cares. This isn’t independence day.”
    I always find it hilarious when, on most Halo matches, people always yell ‘lol, Halo AIs hack their stuff’ (see: Star Wars vs Halo), but as soon as it’s turned around on them, suddenly cyberwarfare doesn’t make a difference.

  25. Zazax January 19, 2013 at 12:55 am -      #4325

    Sorry for the double post, but this:
    “getting into ME’s effective range”
    should be ‘getting into Halo’s effective range’.

  26. Mr. happy January 19, 2013 at 12:59 am -      #4326

    now that i watched the final battle again,the combined fleet seems a little cramped up instead of spaced out so if one shot misses the first ship,it might hit the second or third

  27. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 2:27 am -      #4327

    “Because there was numerous other times where a FTL jump out of there could have saved their asses but they never even considered it telling me that it’s not as simple as you say.”
    -
    Each of the instances you bring up are either someone being suprised, someone being damaged, or an all out fight when retreat isn’t an option.
    ===
    “The problem is that we don’t know how how long it took for the asari to go FTL. They could have used their sub-light engines to retreat from the Reapers until their FTL drive was ready to use.”
    -
    Reaper ships are known to be faster then most ships. FTL tends to be the only way of losing them for a bit. All it takes for retaliation from reapers is a few seconds.
    If they really stayed to long to long then the method wouldn’t have been useful since they would’ve learned not to do that again.
    ===
    “Opening cutsence of ME2 says hello.”
    -
    They had just come out of FTL and disengaged the FTL drive. On top of that they were trying to identify what type of ship it was. They thought they were undetectable and by the time they came to the realization that were detectable, they were being fired upon and damaged, leaving no time to engage FTL.

    I’ve used noted at least two instances of ships only taking a few seconds to jump to FTL as my reasoning. Your basing yours on an ambush, instances where retreat wasn’t an option, and ships that have been too badly damaged that they required assistance or evacuation….

  28. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 2:42 am -      #4328

    ” In ME3 the Quarians jump up there by arming every ship in the Flotilla, many of them turning into Dreadnought-equivalents.”
    -
    While they did show you can equip dreadnought scale weaponry on pretty much anything as long as it’s big enough that doesn’t include Dread-level durability.
    That said Asari has shown they can fit cruisers with dreadnought level shields(Asari Cruiser Cybaen). So make of that what you will.

  29. Mr. happy January 19, 2013 at 2:48 am -      #4329

    but that is unique to ONE ship and probably wont hold up against UNSC firepower so remind me how much fire can a dreadnought take before going down?

  30. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 2:50 am -      #4330

    “And as for the Reapers, remember the starchild. The most powerful A.I in ME. He appears to be even more stupid a human.”
    -
    Actually I think he(it?) is just following what it was told to told(programmed?) to do by the leviathans. They mind control guys with the enormous egos.
    ===
    ““And E.D.I, did I mention that she’s the only one of her kind.”
    It’s funny because she’s not.”
    -
    Didn’t they make EVA after EDI went rogue?

  31. Mr. happy January 19, 2013 at 3:04 am -      #4331

    how fast do VI’s operate?

  32. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 3:05 am -      #4332

    “but that is unique to ONE ship and probably wont hold up against UNSC firepower so remind me how much fire can a dreadnought take before going down?”
    -
    I know, I was merely stating that they are capable of producing a a cruisers with dread-level shielding. Might help survivability without the mess involved in creating a dread. Kind of like a loop-hole in the treaty that limits dreadnought construction.

  33. IamTaco January 19, 2013 at 3:12 am -      #4333

    ‘Only per shot. Overall firepower output per second is lower.’
    -
    Not if that one shot manages to kill of the dreadnought/Reaper before they can rack up the DPS.
    -
    ‘This is actually untrue. Covenant shields on all but the absolute largest ships go down in 1 MAC shot. Most ME ships can take more than 2 hits from their own guns (Dreadnoughts in particular are noted to engage in extended slugfests with each other), meaning their KBs are superior to Covenant shields, since 2 Dreadnought shots > 1 MAC.’
    -
    HAHA. Have you been listening to what I have saying? Why are you comparing the run of the mill covenant frigate and/or destroyer to a dreadnought? You’re comparing the most common weakest ship in the covenant against the second strongest and THE rarest ship in ME. You should be comparing a dreadnought to a covenant super carrier or a supercruiser. The standard frigate/cruiser/reaper destroyer gets one-shotted by a dreadnought btw. If you want to compare the run of the mill covenant ship against ME’s run of the mill ship then yes the covenant shields are superior. If you want to compare the biggest and most powerful and rarest ships of both ME and the covenant then yet again the covenant wins. If you compare the run of the mill most common and weakest covenant ship against the second strongest and rarest ship the MEverse then yes the dreadnought wins.
    -
    ‘Human Dreadnoughts aren’t irreplaceable. It’s noted that even in ME1 the humans have the second-most Dreadnoughts out of everyone save the Turians (whose Dreads are better anyways). In ME3 the Quarians jump up there by arming every ship in the Flotilla, many of them turning into Dreadnought-equivalents.’
    -
    When I said irreplaceable I mean that it would be quite difficult for them to produce another one. Also the Quarian didn’t turn ‘many’ of their ships into dreadnought. For one they only gave them dreadnought firepower not dreadnought KBs or amour. Secondly they only turned their liveships into ‘dreanoughts’ a.k.a the largest, rarest and most valuable ship in the fleet.
    -
    ‘They one-shot Dreadnoughts, who are noted to be able to slug it out with each other. You’re going to have to explain your logic behind this.’
    -
    Not sure if stupid or trolling.
    -

    ‘The Volus are the only race with just one Dreadnought. The Turians, Asari, Salarians and Humans all have more, and the Quarians/Geth/Reapers also have more, but we don’t know how many more.’
    -
    Actually we do know. All of the mass effect races accept the Quarians only owns about 135 dreadnoughts. The reapers don’t have dreadnoughts and the Quarians dreadnoughts are a glass cannon and they also don’t have alot of them.
    -
    ‘Geth and Reaper Dreadnoughts in particular are unusually powerful.’
    -
    Reapers don’t have dreadnoughts. And geth dreadnoughts are more powerful then the average dreadnought would still die to about 3-4 MAC shots or a single energy projector shot.
    -
    ‘I always find it hilarious when, on most Halo matches, people always yell ‘lol, Halo AIs hack their stuff’ (see: Star Wars vs Halo), but as soon as it’s turned around on them, suddenly cyberwarfare doesn’t make a difference.’
    -
    Then don’t be one of those idiots then. You mock them yet you do the exact same thing you mock them for.
    -
    ‘There are other AIs like EDI, they’re just largely illegal. They’re actually apparently hilariously easy to make, since one guy on the Citadel accidentally makes one.’
    -
    And yet because they are illegal they won’t be using them in combat anytime soon.
    -
    ‘Thankfully there’s lots of Geth, and they don’t have to be smart anyways to simply overpower Halo AIs with processing power.’
    -
    Not INDEPENDENCE DAY. And any evidence of the geth collective’s processing power or are you pulling stuff out of your ass. Also while the entire geth collective is probably much more powerful then any halo A.I remember the entire geth collective won’t be there. In a battle only the geth hardware currently on site would contribute to the geth’s processing power and with every geth/geth ship halo destroys the lower the geth intelligence and their combat effectiveness would be.
    -
    ‘Compared to all those UNSC ships with Cortana-level Smart AIs on them, eh?’
    -
    Yeah, most UNSC ships are commonly fitted with a A.I. Most aren’t the level of Cortana but still better than a human piloting the ship no?
    -
    ‘You have yet to actually provide any evidence of these.’
    -
    ‘… Says the guy saying Halo’s going to be flitting around with never-before-seen tactical Slipspace jumps in-combat.’
    -
    No prove? Then what all the stuff that I wrote? Why don’t you read it again?
    -
    ‘It’s funny because she’s not.’
    -
    She isn’t? That great news. Pls provide proof of another A.I that was not the geth, the reapers or an experiment/prototype. I’m sure that she will be happy to hear that.
    -
    ‘ME ships can increase/decrease their own mass as needed (within certain limits, of course). Their FTL drive isn’t so much a drive as it is reducing their mass to almost zero. They actually move with their conventional engines even during FTL.’
    -
    And this is why ME flies around during combat at 0.5c/0.99c/FTL and does battle with lasers and 0.99c particle beams right? Oh no they don’t.
    -
    ‘Lolwut?’
    -
    Exactly my reaction to the billion year old super A.I who can’t understand common sense.
    -
    ‘This has all been covered previously. If it’s news to you, maybe you should read back a bit.’
    -
    I don’t see how this allows ME

  34. Mr. happy January 19, 2013 at 3:23 am -      #4334

    to win? plus the AI’s on UNSC ships will give them the edge

  35. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 3:27 am -      #4335

    “And yet because they are illegal they won’t be using them in combat anytime soon.”
    -
    Well they are working with Geth, leviathan mind control, Rachni, EDI, and everyone apparently already tries to get away with making AI for “research purposes”. Not really seeing why they would be objecting to there uses now that the cats(AI/unlikely allies) out of the bag.

  36. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 3:27 am -      #4336

    “And yet because they are illegal they won’t be using them in combat anytime soon.”
    -
    Well they are working with Geth, leviathan mind control, Rachni, EDI, and everyone apparently already tries to get away with making AI for “research purposes”. Not really seeing why they would be objecting to using them now that the cats(AI/unlikely allies) out of the bag.

  37. Mr. happy January 19, 2013 at 3:41 am -      #4337

    leviathans tat we only see three? rachni which is mostly extinct but a queen? geth have a place in this fight,n why would they suddenly use AIs? just because the enemy is using it? no they probably woundnt and using AIs with the fear that they might turn against them,they would also probably hope the UNSC’s AIs turn against them.

  38. IamTaco January 19, 2013 at 3:43 am -      #4338

    ‘Each of the instances you bring up are either someone being suprised, someone being damaged, or an all out fight when retreat isn’t an option.’
    -
    ??? I think I have pretty much proved my point, that FTL drives do not take a few seconds to activate. Seeing the one instance where they did take seconds to activate had them there floating in space where they might have charged up the FTL drive before hand.
    -
    They had just come out of FTL and disengaged the FTL drive. On top of that they were trying to identify what type of ship it was. They thought they were undetectable and by the time they came to the realization that were detectable, they were being fired upon and damaged, leaving no time to engage FTL.’
    -
    They weren’t heavily damaged on the very first hit. They also didn’t mention anything about the FTL drive being damaged. And you have just proved my point.
    -
    ‘Reaper ships are known to be faster then most ships. FTL tends to be the only way of losing them for a bit. All it takes for retaliation from reapers is a few seconds.’
    -
    Nope, for one they could have used their sub-light thrusters to avoid reaper fire until they could FTL away. It’s pretty obvious that it isn’t a prefect plan and was quite risky. Which wouldn’t be if they could FTL before the Reapers could even fire at them.
    -
    ‘Nobody, since they’ll die before getting into ME’s effective range..’
    -
    Tactical FTL jump ahoy.
    -
    ‘Ah yes, the final choice for a man with no options left. “If I’m going down I’m taking you with me.”’
    -
    Expect you know it didn’t take down the Infinity.
    -
    ‘They can deflect a MAC shot or two, easily. Which is more than can be said for Halo’s defenses.’
    -
    Expect that you know there will be more then one or two MAC shots.
    -
    ‘That said Asari has shown they can fit cruisers with dreadnought level shields(Asari Cruiser Cybaen)’
    -
    That required a lot element zero. A dreadnought’s worth.

  39. Mr. happy January 19, 2013 at 3:49 am -      #4339

    another ouch for ME’s side and wait are UNSC’s shields that crappy?sigh n i thought they can take plasma torps in the face…

  40. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 4:16 am -      #4340

    ” I think I have pretty much proved my point, that FTL drives do not take a few seconds to activate. Seeing the one instance where they did take seconds to activate had them there floating in space where they might have charged up the FTL drive before hand.”
    -
    They actually showed what it charging up looked like in the Joker scene. It wasn’t charged up, it was deativated, Joker activited it, it sparked to life for a few seconds, they went to FTL.
    That was the actual process, it was shown, how are you getting anything other then actual visual evidence for how it would work.
    ===
    “They weren’t heavily damaged on the very first hit.”
    -
    Yes they were. They had multiple hullbreaches, weapon down, and barriers down. No barriers to patch at least some of the holes and anyone not sealed away near where the hull breached areas were would have resulted with the crew ending up like the collectors. All while still being attacked.
    ===
    “Nope, for one they could have used their sub-light thrusters to avoid reaper fire until they could FTL away.”
    -
    Okay, fine point out where it states that? Because from what’s stated the events went “blast a Reaper ship, then jumping to FTL”
    Not “blast a reaper, avoid fire for a little bit, jump to FTL”.

    Your arguing using “could haves” against clear cut, stated and/or shown stuff… I’m not getting why you want ME to not be capable of what’s actually shown to do. Especially when your side can hit higher speeds.

  41. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 4:28 am -      #4341

    “leviathans tat we only see three?”
    -
    Pretty sure they said there were others on other planets but that wasn”t my point(skip to the end to see my point)
    ===
    “rachni which is mostly extinct but a queen?”
    -
    Cloning and the fact that they are as dangerous a breeders as the Krogan without the genophage were.
    ===
    “geth have a place in this fight,n why would they suddenly use AIs? just because the enemy is using it?”
    -
    These were reasons for why using AI wouldn’t be that big a deal as it was before.
    They are teaming with what they though were dangerous before which is the reasons for why they law on AIs. The fact that the Geth are the actual cause of this fear, the fact that they are now actual AIs, and that they do a good job in working with them kind of adds to that.

  42. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 4:30 am -      #4342

    “They are teaming with what they *though were dangerous before”
    *Thought

    “why they *law on AIs”
    *Had a law

  43. Mr. happy January 19, 2013 at 4:34 am -      #4343

    are they comparable to UNSC ‘smart’ or ‘dumb’ AI’s geth most likely

  44. Zazax January 19, 2013 at 4:46 am -      #4344

    “Not if that one shot manages to kill of the dreadnought/Reaper before they can rack up the DPS.”
    But it won’t, both because they can survive more than a few hits and because Halo won’t be able to hit them in the first place.
    -
    “You should be comparing a dreadnought to a covenant super carrier or a supercruiser.”
    Before I even try doing that you’re going to have to prove the Covenant even have any left.
    As far as I’m aware we only ever see one Supercruiser (which is promptly destroyed), and all the Supercarriers I can think of have been destroyed too.
    -
    ” If you compare the run of the mill most common and weakest covenant ship against the second strongest and rarest ship the MEverse then yes the dreadnought wins.”
    I’m comparing ships that are actually still, you know, in service.
    -
    “Also the Quarian didn’t turn ‘many’ of their ships into dreadnought. For one they only gave them dreadnought firepower not dreadnought KBs or amour.”
    Considering Halo can’t effectively engage them that’s all they need.
    -
    “Secondly they only turned their liveships into ‘dreanoughts’ a.k.a the largest, rarest and most valuable ship in the fleet.”
    And this disproves them turning ‘many’ of their ships into Dreadnought-equivalents (note the presence of the word ‘equivalents’. Reading comprehension is your friend), how?
    -
    “Not sure if stupid or trolling.”
    I notice you didn’t actually respond to the point. If you don’t have an answer that doesn’t compromise your position, you can concede. No need to be obnoxious.
    -
    “Actually we do know. All of the mass effect races accept the Quarians only owns about 135 dreadnoughts.”
    I never said we didn’t know how many the Citadel races had. I said we don’t know how many the Quarians/Geth have.
    Again, reading comprehension.
    -
    “The reapers don’t have dreadnoughts”
    Sovereign-class Reapers then, if you insist on being like that.
    -
    “Then don’t be one of those idiots then. You mock them yet you do the exact same thing you mock them for.”
    I believe you misunderstood me. I fully acknowledge that cyberwarfare is completely legitimate regardless of which side of the fence I’m on. I was mocking Halotards’ tendency to latch onto anything they think will give them a win while dismissing anything that won’t, regardless of how legitimate it is.
    -
    “And yet because they are illegal they won’t be using them in combat anytime soon.”
    Except for, you know, all the shady corporations and terrorist groups and non-Citadel races that don’t care and make them anyway. Cerberus is actually a good example of that.
    -
    “Not INDEPENDENCE DAY.”
    You keep yelling this, but I don’t think you understand what it means. We’re not hacking a centuries-more-advanced alien mothership with a Macbook, it’s AIs facing off against each other.
    -
    “And any evidence of the geth collective’s processing power or are you pulling stuff out of your ass.”
    .. You’re kidding, right?
    -
    “Also while the entire geth collective is probably much more powerful then any halo A.I remember the entire geth collective won’t be there.”
    Why would it need to be?
    -
    “and with every geth/geth ship halo destroys the lower the geth intelligence and their combat effectiveness would be.”
    I find it completely hilarious that you’re still arguing as if Halo can actually fight back conventionally.
    -
    “Yeah, most UNSC ships are commonly fitted with a A.I. Most aren’t the level of Cortana but still better than a human piloting the ship no?”
    And most ME ships have VIs for the same thing. How is this any different?
    -
    “No prove? Then what all the stuff that I wrote? Why don’t you read it again?”
    I have. None of them are on the level you’re stating except for *maybe* the one that comes out right behind the PoA.
    And you’re going to have to properly source those, by the way.
    Even still, considering how many space battles there are in Halo and the fact that you only have a handful of kinda-sorta examples, it inclines me to believe that even if Halo is capable of reliably pulling this sort of thing off (which I don’t but for a second), they don’t do it very often.
    -
    “She isn’t? That great news. Pls provide proof of another A.I that was not the geth, the reapers or an experiment/prototype. I’m sure that she will be happy to hear that.”
    Off the top of my head, EVA and the AI on the Citadel (whose name escapes me, if he even had one) both come to mind.
    And even so, why the limitations? If ME has the ability to make AIs, why not use every avenue possible?
    If you’re going to be like that I may as well ask for an example from top-level canon (so not the contradictory books) of a tactical FTL jump that is explicitly not a total accident.
    -
    “And this is why ME flies around during combat at 0.5c/0.99c/FTL and does battle with lasers and 0.99c particle beams right? Oh no they don’t.”
    Just like how Halo ships are constantly making tactical FTL jumps all over the battlefield, right?
    -
    “Exactly my reaction to the billion year old super A.I who can’t understand common sense.”
    He seems to understand common sense just fine, considering he’s 100% right.
    -
    “I don’t see how this allows ME”
    The suspense is killing me.

  45. Lowk Vi Britannia January 19, 2013 at 4:59 am -      #4345

    “and with every geth/geth ship halo destroys the lower the geth intelligence and their combat effectiveness would be.”
    -
    Didn’t notice this.
    Geth can upload themselves to the other ships. Which thinking about it should increase those other ships intelligence/effectiveness the less there are…. Kind of ironic each ship becoming smart the less ships they have.

  46. Draco January 19, 2013 at 5:34 am -      #4346

    A single geth ship/station can hold in itself billions of geth programs. They’re software, and do not need hardware in order to hack. Why would they?
    Therefore, with these billions of geth programs all encompassed together their intellegence becomes quite high. They can process, have conversations, and do other software geth stuff at lightspeed. Which means cyberwarfare for them would be heavily on their side. Besides, you can’t ‘kill’ software. You can only destroy their hardware bodies.
    Working with Me2 info…
    -
    I was certain that it was mentioned that the ship in Halo 4 was the only ship of it’s kind to be outfitted with forerunner tech. Then again, I don’t know the lore and books.

  47. SgCombine January 19, 2013 at 9:31 am -      #4347

    @Draco
    I was certain that it was mentioned that the ship in Halo 4 was the only ship of it’s kind to be outfitted with forerunner tech. Then again, I don’t know the lore and books.
    -
    It is, the Infinity is not only one of a kind, but considered the most powerful ship in current Haloverse since the Forerunners.
    Apparently its main weapon is more powerful than a SMAC and its shields can tank plasma from a dozen or so Covenant ships.
    -
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iSPzrLJfDok#t=404s
    -
    *Also* While everyone claims the two guns it fires are MACs, I think they’re actually some kind of particle beam weapon. They just don’t look like any of the other MAC weapons which fire a sort of yellow beam. That and the Infinity is supposed to have four MACs, but only fires two? *shrug*

  48. Virgil January 19, 2013 at 5:06 pm -      #4348

    ‘Ello everyone! I decided after doing some reading up on the Mass Effect Universe that I might as well get into this.
    -
    @Zazax
    -
    I always find it hilarious when, on most Halo matches, people always yell ‘lol, Halo AIs hack their stuff’ (see: Star Wars vs Halo), but as soon as it’s turned around on them, suddenly cyberwarfare doesn’t make a difference.
    -
    First off, when do I ever say that? Yes, I advocated the better AI in Halo… Was it ever turned against us? Nope, Star Wars has NO recorded anti-cyberwarfare stuff. They deal with simple viruses that infect single computers, not adapting viruses or AI.
    -
    “And most ME ships have VIs for the same thing. How is this any different?”
    -
    “A virtual intelligence (VI) is a sophisticated program designed to make modern computer systems easier to use. They are not to be confused with artificial intelligences like the geth, as VIs are only utilised to assist the user and process data (although, like AIs, they can still get out of hand). Though they appear to be intelligent, they aren’t actually self aware, just made with clever programming.”
    -
    They are NOT self aware and lack the ability to do things that “dumb” AIs in Halo can do. Even the “dumb” AIs in Halo are self aware! They may be limited somewhat but they can still infiltrate and complete basic military commands (Depends on the AI, in Halo the UNSC utilize the AI for various purposes, “dumb” AI usually for running cities, etc. while other ones will be dedicated for infiltration, etc.)
    -
    I believe you misunderstood me. I fully acknowledge that cyberwarfare is completely legitimate regardless of which side of the fence I’m on. I was mocking Halotards’ tendency to latch onto anything they think will give them a win while dismissing anything that won’t, regardless of how legitimate it is.
    -
    Yes, some of us tend to latch unto that (Although I think you are talking about me), why is that wrong? Why concentrate on things that won’t help you in the debate? If I bring up say the basic grunt units they would do nothing against Humans and such unless they had HUGE numbers. If you bring up the subject of other things then I will gladly debate them and/or agree, depends on the subject. Things may be legitimate but in a battle with superior enemies in some aspects why bother bringing things that won’t do much up?

  49. Zazax January 19, 2013 at 8:25 pm -      #4349

    “First off, when do I ever say that?”
    Star Wars vs Halo was only the most recent example. I’ve been on the site for years and have seen it multiple times.
    And I wasn’t specifically talking about you, no. Even on SW vs Halo it’s popped up before you joined the match.
    -
    “They are NOT self aware”
    They don’t have to be. Self-awareness on simple AIs isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
    -
    “Yes, some of us tend to latch unto that (Although I think you are talking about me), why is that wrong?”
    Latching onto something to win isn’t wrong. Doing so in one place while claiming it’s a possible game-changer then dismissing the same tactic as completely irrelevant in another match against an enemy that can equal if not exceed you in it in an attempt to downplay it is.
    And still not talking specifically about you. The ‘pile has had a lot of trouble with ridiculous and rabid Halo fans in the past (I’m reminded of a time when someone tried to argue that the Chief could beat Superman because his armour was green, and therefore Kryptonite. I shit you not).

  50. Mr. happy January 21, 2013 at 7:54 am -      #4350

    how the hell does titanium become kryptonite?

  51. Zazax January 21, 2013 at 8:05 am -      #4351

    Your guess is as good as mine.

  52. the_man_with The_Answers January 21, 2013 at 12:42 pm -      #4352

    “If ME has the ability to make AIs, why not use every avenue possible?”
    -
    Ohhh the sweet, sweet irony. Coming from the person who says Halo won’t use the Flood out of fear. The Citadel races are terrified of AI, banning their use and research. Yet you are now claiming they will use them because it is an effective avenue of attack?
    Pot. Kettle. Black.
    As a note, in case there is some confusion, I think Mass Effect WOULD use AIs, similar to how Halo would use the Flood.
    Of course, I would rather have the Flood than some AI.
    -

  53. BC January 21, 2013 at 2:18 pm -      #4353

    ” how the hell does titanium become kryptonite? ”
    -
    If you paint it yellow it might work against Green Lantern, but that is about it.
    -
    -
    “ Ohhh the sweet, sweet irony. Coming from the person who says Halo won’t use the Flood out of fear. The Citadel races are terrified of AI, banning their use and research. Yet you are now claiming they will use them because it is an effective avenue of attack?
    Pot. Kettle. Black. “
    -
    I was under the impression that the flood was Halos take on the Thing too, in which case it would not really be intelligent as we know it but rather extremely clever at using mimicry to hunt. While cutscenes and other stuff that is available on the web are often enough to get the general idea of a unit those methods curiously seem to fail when it comes to the Flood though they are accurate enough for the rest of Halo. For those who do not play the game or read the novels based on the game and so do not get the feel of it directly the obvious connection of the Flood to the Thing is unmistakeable. Sometimes being familiar with the source of the source leads to false impressions about what the derivative work is like.
    -
    It makes me wonder a little which interpretation is right, the true intelligence or the clever terrifyingly alien mimic. Or for that matter whether the original author of the Flood decided to make them intelligent as a deliberate difference from the Thing for legal purposes or whatever or did not understand the original Thing concept. It is the dichotomies of those who are so familiar secretly turning into something so alien and the thought that the person might still be in there and can be reasoned with contrasted with the other evidence that it is just a very alien mimicking animal that erodes confidence in the familiar and safe and produces the fear and anxiety in the film. If the flood are really intelligent it removes the second part and makes them somewhat flat in comparison. Of course that is a bit off the subject at hand.

  54. Zazax January 21, 2013 at 5:01 pm -      #4354

    ” Coming from the person who says Halo won’t use the Flood out of fear.”
    CIS, actually, not fear. But you go right on ahead trying to break the rules to eek out every advantage your franchise for 12-year-olds could possibly have, since it needs it so bad.
    -
    ” The Citadel races are terrified of AI, banning their use and research.”
    They’re not ‘terrified’ of AIs (hence why the Alliance continues to allow the use of EDI after they repossess the Normandy in ME3). They consider the research immoral. Immoral =/= scared.
    -
    ” Yet you are now claiming they will use them because it is an effective avenue of attack?”
    I have noticed that this is a sad attempt to take a statement out of context. The quote you’re getting your knickers in a twist over was in response to IAmTaco basically saying ‘give me an example of an AI in ME that isn’t one of the already-known-to-exist AIs’, which is a hilariously preposterous statement. The quoted statement was to say that these AI’s (Geth, for example) are still around and in play, so I didn’t have to provide any examples (but I did anyway, since I’m such a nice guy).
    This is different from the Flood, for reasons that have already been covered extensively.

  55. erickyboo January 21, 2013 at 6:15 pm -      #4355

    ONI tried flood research, to weaponize it, it was on a prison ship.
    I was looking for my post on tactics hehe, other discussion.
    In spartan ops episode 6 there is some interesting things about Spartans, cyber stuff, phantoms… Nothing too big but interesting.

  56. Lowk Vi Britannia January 21, 2013 at 7:11 pm -      #4356

    “Ohhh the sweet, sweet irony. Coming from the person who says Halo won’t use the Flood out of fear. The Citadel races are terrified of AI, banning their use and research. Yet you are now claiming they will use them because it is an effective avenue of attack?”
    -
    Except we learn that they eventually come to live with(not just work with), the very thing that they used to justify it. Not seal or send them away. They actually come to live with a race of AI.

  57. Mr. happy January 22, 2013 at 7:36 am -      #4357

    well it was one of the short stories showing how sick the UNSC are nuking their own world to quell a rebellion,using POW’s and prisoners to weaponize flood,kidnap children to fight terrorist… I wonder what they will not do

  58. BC January 22, 2013 at 3:39 pm -      #4358

    ” well it was one of the short stories showing how sick the UNSC are nuking their own world to quell a rebellion,using POW’s and prisoners to weaponize flood,kidnap children to fight terrorist… I wonder what they will not do ”
    -
    That sounds like Cerberus too. The are nasty fanatics that will stoop to almost anything to get closer to their objectives. At one point they were even experimenting with those zombie cyborgs the Reapers produce, going so far as to deliberately infect a living human to see what would happen and if they could control it.

  59. Virgil January 23, 2013 at 4:15 am -      #4359

    @BC
    -
    The point is that the UNSC has experimented with the Flood to use them in combat AND there are thousands if not millions/billions of Flood that are released on one of the busted Halos… The UNSC/Covenant doesn’t need to let them out, they just don’t have to stop them.

  60. erickyboo January 24, 2013 at 1:32 am -      #4360

    youtu.be/rXIOXI9GD58 probably a bit relevant.
    The nuke and the rebellion, not much info on what happened.

    ONI did that, although ONI is wiser. After the flood escaped on the ship, they sent a prowler and marines to investigate. Then after it was unsafe, they nuked it.

    Halsey chose 6 year olds. The spartan-II is an ONI project.

    ONI are not fanatics. Parangoski is ready to do what it takes.

    Information on MJOLNIR armour. With the sensors package, it was able to scan nearby crates as seen in episode 6 chapter 4. It had visible glow thingy. It was also able to apparently detect nukes readings, same episode and chapter. Something about bio detection in the Thursday war. The motion sensor was able to detect things at 500m range, episode 6 chapter 2. It has a short range and it was able to transmit worms into covenant systems, worms prepped by Rolland.

  61. TheSorrow January 24, 2013 at 2:43 am -      #4361

    The UNSC/Covenant doesn’t need to let them out, they just don’t have to stop them.
    -
    Stop them from what? Leaving an installation with nothing to traverse space with? From what I remember, the only thing that allowed the Flood to travel was the infected space station High Charity, and that was destroyed. So unless they somehow manage to get the Rings to move, they are stranded.

  62. Virgil January 24, 2013 at 9:58 am -      #4362

    @TheSorrow
    -
    , Stop them from what? Leaving an installation with nothing to traverse space with? From what I remember, the only thing that allowed the Flood to travel was the infected space station High Charity, and that was destroyed. So unless they somehow manage to get the Rings to move, they are stranded.
    -
    They are on a Forerunner Installation and I believe it would be going to far to say that there were no spacecraft on the Installation. Why haven’t the Flood left? We don’t know, they could have already, we just don’t know. All the Flood needs to move is someway to get there. Any ship would do, they can just hot-wire its slipspace drive. It is possible that they could get the Halo to move but it is unlikely, it was severely damaged. I am going with transport available on the Installation, it may only allow some of them to move but once they get a organic rich planet, the game is on.

  63. TheSorrow January 24, 2013 at 1:11 pm -      #4363

    They are on a Forerunner Installation and I believe it would be going to far to say that there were no spacecraft on the Installation
    -
    It has been years since The Ark was destroyed and there has not been a peep from The Flood since. I don’t think it’s a stretch of one’s imagination to conclude that they are a non-factor in this fight.
    -
    Why haven’t the Flood left? We don’t know, they could have already, we just don’t know.
    -
    The answer is pretty obvious, they have nothing with which to leave the installation.
    -
    All the Flood needs to move is someway to get there. Any ship would do, they can just hot-wire its slipspace drive.
    -
    Not every ship has slipspace drives.
    -
    I am going with transport available on the Installation, it may only allow some of them to move but once they get a organic rich planet, the game is on.
    -
    You didn’t make this match, you are not the admin, you don’t get to decide what The Flood has.

  64. erickyboo January 25, 2013 at 12:50 am -      #4364

    We don’t know much about installation 07 but we may not entirely need it for this match.

  65. Virgil January 25, 2013 at 1:25 am -      #4365

    @TheSorrow
    -
    It has been years since The Ark was destroyed and there has not been a peep from The Flood since. I don’t think it’s a stretch of one’s imagination to conclude that they are a non-factor in this fight.
    -
    You don’t know that so how can you say that is fact? The books itself say there was no less then 10 Graveminds and millions (If not billions) of Flood on Installation 07… They aren’t a non-factor, just because we don’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. With that logic I could go to certain areas of SW and say “Oh they didn’t pop up there so they are gone!” The point is they ARE going to bring the Flood back sooner or later and your argument doesn’t prove a thing.
    -
    The answer is pretty obvious, they have nothing with which to leave the installation.
    -
    Who are you to say that? Proof? We do know that there were ships on Installation 07, whether any survived we don’t know but you can’t say that they have no way off, they don’t even need a slipspace drive, it would take a long while but they could get anywhere they wanted to. Also remember the Flood came from Unknown Space (Besides the powder I mean)… Who are you to say that they aren’t out there? Floating around?
    -
    Not every ship has slipspace drives.
    -
    True but they don’t need it, it would just take longer.
    -
    You didn’t make this match, you are not the admin, you don’t get to decide what The Flood has.
    -
    When did I ever say that they HAD to have an organic rich planet? I didn’t. You are accusing me for something I didn’t do. All I said was that once they GET an organic rich planet the game is on… I didn’t say they had one, I said they could get one. In the first place the Flood don’t even need an organic rich planet to grow! It would just help them to grow faster. I advise that you look to see what you are accusing me of.
    -
    @Erickyboo
    -
    We don’t know much about installation 07 but we may not entirely need it for this match.
    -
    I know but this could help us. Ten Graveminds? Hundreds of thousands if not millions of Flood (They’ve had thousands of years on Installation 07). This doesn’t mean it is a game changer but it could help.

  66. TheSorrow January 25, 2013 at 1:41 am -      #4366

    Who are you to say that? Proof? We do know that there were ships on Installation 07, whether any survived we don’t know but you can’t say that they have no way off, they don’t even need a slipspace drive, it would take a long while but they could get anywhere they wanted to. Also remember the Flood came from Unknown Space (Besides the powder I mean)… Who are you to say that they aren’t out there? Floating around?
    -
    Then I have to ask again, what have they been doing since The Ark’s destruction? If they don’t have slipspace, it’s just as bad as not being able to move at all. The point you have literally no evidence to prove they have the means to travel in any meaningful way.
    -
    When did I ever say that they HAD to have an organic rich planet? I didn’t.
    -
    You said they they had transportation available, you don’t have the evidence nor the authority to make that call.
    -
    I advise that you look to see what you are accusing me of.
    -
    I can comprehend what you are saying without your advice thank you. Maybe you should recognize what I am accusing you of before responding.

  67. Virgil January 25, 2013 at 2:13 am -      #4367

    @TheSorrow
    -
    Then I have to ask again, what have they been doing since The Ark’s destruction? If they don’t have slipspace, it’s just as bad as not being able to move at all. The point you have literally no evidence to prove they have the means to travel in any meaningful way.
    -
    We do know they had ships on the planet, is that enough? The Didact himself had ships try to stabilize the Installation and some stayed behind. So there ARE ships there, whether the Flood got them or not is a different question. There were also infected Forerunners and Lifeworkers there whom would know how to repair/build a ship (There are plenty of damaged ships that they could repair) with the right resources. Just because they don’t appear in Halo 4 doesn’t mean they are gone. They are still around and quite likely mobile. Most likely I would say that they have been rebuilding, biding time. When the Flood knows they can’t take somebody they can be patient. They are around and most likely mobile.
    -
    You said they they had transportation available, you don’t have the evidence nor the authority to make that call.
    -
    Above.
    -
    I can comprehend what you are saying without your advice thank you. Maybe you should recognize what I am accusing you of before responding.
    -
    I said and I quote: I am going with transport available on the Installation, it may only allow some of them to move but once they get a organic rich planet, the game is on.
    -
    And you said: You didn’t make this match, you are not the admin, you don’t get to decide what The Flood has.
    -
    What else are you accusing me off except for saying that they have an organic rich planet? Which I didn’t say in the first place. Unless you took my figure of speech incorrectly… If so you could rephrase it: “I am going with transport available on the Installation, it may only allow some of them to move but once they get a organic rich planet, things will get interesting.”
    -
    I recognize that you can understand what you said. What I don’t understand is what you are accusing me of, the only thing I said in that sentence is that they could get a organic rich planet. If you didn’t quote exactly what I said to lead to your accusation then it isn’t my fault. The rules at the beginning say latest incarnation (Although I think it is much more interesting to debate composite universe), the Flood would still be on Installation 07… I am not saying they have anymore resources then those available. They have damaged ships, some fully functional ones in orbit (At least at the time of Bornstellar’s departure) and infected Forerunners and Lifeworkers… The Flood absorb knowledge, why couldn’t they absorb the knowledge to fix a ship?They sure can pilot one. The Flood aren’t a mindless parasite, they are smart, they wait until they can get you or utilize strategy to infect you. They aren’t all attack, they can and will bide their time till they are strong, to say that just because they aren’t around in the latest game doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

  68. TheSorrow January 25, 2013 at 2:25 am -      #4368

    What else are you accusing me off except for saying that they have an organic rich planet?
    -
    Oh for fuck’s sake… you assumed they have the transportation available, I said you didn’t have evidence to prove it definitively. It’s only your speculation. Is that clear enough for you?
    -
    They have damaged ships, some fully functional ones in orbit (At least at the time of Bornstellar’s departure) and infected Forerunners and Lifeworkers… The Flood absorb knowledge, why couldn’t they absorb the knowledge to fix a ship?
    -
    Are you seriously suggesting that the Flood from Installation 07 has had access to ships for 100k+ years and they chose not to use because they are “biding time”? Please elaborate, because clearly I’m missing some pieces in your logic.

  69. TheSorrow January 25, 2013 at 2:35 am -      #4369

    If there really is no less than 10 Graveminds and millions of infection forms on Installation 07, what’s the hold up, what have they been doing all this time. You keep referencing back to when Didact was there, but you neglect to mention how long ago that was and what had happened between then and the present incarnation.

  70. Virgil January 25, 2013 at 2:48 am -      #4370

    @TheSorrow
    -
    Oh for fuck’s sake… you assumed they have the transportation available, I said you didn’t have evidence to prove it definitively. It’s only your speculation. Is that clear enough for you?
    -
    Resorting to swearing to getting your point across? Really? Yes, all I gave is speculation, all you have is speculation. The thing is that the Flood are perfectly capable to travel with the resources they have. Why they haven’t I don’t know no reason to be annoyed/angry about it! This is a debate not an argument!
    -
    Are you seriously suggesting that the Flood from Installation 07 has had access to ships for 100k+ years and they chose not to use because they are “biding time”? Please elaborate, because clearly I’m missing some pieces in your logic.
    -
    Well let me see… “The Flood had been in continual war with the Sentinels since the firing of the Halos 100,000 years ago.”
    -
    So the Flood had been around for 100,000 years and they hadn’t attacked… Also I just checked into it and I have an answer. Except for the blatantly obvious, 343 is keeping them for later, it is known that they (The 10 Graveminds) and a large portion of the Flood were kept in time locks. This would severly hamper their movements and would increase the time it took to grow again (No Graveminds means it is still in a Feral stage). Is that good? That is what happened, is this okay now? Other then that there is nothing, no history nada. We just don’t know. The entire point of this is simply that the Flood are around. That’s it… Are we done with this?

  71. Virgil January 25, 2013 at 2:52 am -      #4371

    @TheSorrow
    -
    I apologize it I annoyed you in any way that was not my intent. I am merely on this sight to enjoy some friendly debates.

  72. TheSorrow January 25, 2013 at 3:18 am -      #4372

    Resorting to swearing to getting your point across? Really?
    -
    I don’t feel like I need to justify myself three times over. If you don’t like the swearing, get used to it, and I am serious about that because you will see a lot more of it if you stick around long enough.
    -
    Yes, all I gave is speculation, all you have is speculation. The thing is that the Flood are perfectly capable to travel with the resources they have.
    -
    If they have the resources then why are they still on the Installation? You said it’s because they have been in a perpetual war since the Halo Array fired, what makes the circumstances any different now? And who is to say those ships are even still around since then? You say I’m speculating, but thing is I am under no obligation to provide proof that the Flood aren’t capable of traveling outside their prisons.
    -
    Here’s the thing, if you can give a quote showing that the Flood does in fact have the resources to travel to other planets as it stands now (Im not talking about events in the distant past), then I will drop my argument.

  73. erickyboo January 25, 2013 at 10:09 am -      #4373

    The flood on the installation 07′s status is a bit unknown. Even if all the flood on the Milky Way was to be eliminated, there would still be more outside of the galaxy. Plus installation 03 should have a flood research facility right?

    Spartans are a good asset, I posted a few things about their armour.

  74. Virgil January 25, 2013 at 10:17 am -      #4374

    @TheSorrow
    -
    I apologize for frustrating you, I didn’t mean to bring you to that point. It was not my intention.
    -
    You know what I am just going to drop this, the entire point of me mentioning that there were Flood out there is that they are there, not destroyed as someone mentioned in the past comments. They are not destroyed, they are there. That was it. That was the point, I’m not going to get into a debate over fine points. As I said before, we don’t know what has happened on that Installation in the current incarnation, we don’t all we have is that past quotes. If you won’t take them then there is no point in arguing about it. The past and speculation is all we have in this point.
    -
    Again I apologize for any possible annoyance, I didn’t mean for it to go to that.

  75. Zazax January 28, 2013 at 8:51 am -      #4375

    “Even if all the flood on the Milky Way was to be eliminated, there would still be more outside of the galaxy.”
    Except the extragalactic Flood aren’t exactly what we know as Flood. They’re all… powdery.
    Plus, we have no information on them whatsoever. It’s like the incoming, 12-galaxies strong Tyranid Hive Fleet in 40k, although at least with that we have an inlking as to its size. Not so much with these Flood.
    If there’s no usable data, it obviously can’t be used.

  76. Mr. happy February 3, 2013 at 9:34 am -      #4376

    i just watched the extended cut endings so which one are we going by?
    -
    1)control. bad for halo
    2)Synthesis. worse for halo
    3)destroy. halo has good chance without the reapers
    4)refusal. unquantifiable

  77. Virgil February 3, 2013 at 11:10 am -      #4377

    @Mr.Happy
    -
    Yah, the endings make things… difficult. Consider that Halo still has the Halos though, and the Prometheans and the Flood still exist. I do believe that the Reapers have organic components yes?

  78. erickyboo February 3, 2013 at 1:07 pm -      #4378

    The ones that originally came from the powdery places were likely summoned by the primordial after it was discovered by ancient humans.

    Flood research facilities and flood outside, the flood will come back to test the humans soon.

  79. Virgil February 3, 2013 at 3:16 pm -      #4379

    @Erickyboo
    -
    Which presumes there are more there but we have no information on numbers, strength, etc.

  80. Draco February 3, 2013 at 3:25 pm -      #4380

    Sorry to jumo in… but has it been mentioned that mass effect ships (especially frigates) cruise at FTL speeds?
    -
    That means that mass effect ships move faster than haloships on a cruising and perhaps a combat basis as well. Halo just has a long-distance advantage thanks to slipspace drives.

  81. Virgil February 3, 2013 at 3:53 pm -      #4381

    @Draco
    -
    The thing is the Covenant and the UNSC have the ability to slipspace jump right next to the Mass Effect ships, unload their payload and then get out of there. Is this specific fight composite?

  82. Draco February 3, 2013 at 6:47 pm -      #4382

    I remember slipspace jumps not being very accurate for UNSC. While ships like the infinty, maybe, but for the regular ships without forerunner technology.
    -
    I’m unsure.
    -
    But they can’t exactly hit something traveliing at FTL while mass effect ships combat each other like that all the time. Having to compensate for ‘light lag’ as the image of the enemy ship is only where they used to be since the image arrives to them at lightspeed.

  83. erickyboo February 3, 2013 at 7:05 pm -      #4383

    That sounds silly… Never heard of that.
    In the cutscenes you see them fighting in normal speeds very much.

    Unsc’s FTL is fast and very accurate.

  84. SgCombine February 3, 2013 at 7:14 pm -      #4384

    @Draco
    Mass Effect ships fighting at FTL xD? I think you got ME mixed up with The Culture or something.

  85. Draco February 3, 2013 at 9:28 pm -      #4385

    @SG combine
    There are many codex entries on their fighting. If a frigate can cruise at FTL speeds what’s their fighting speeds?
    -
    Perhaps they slow down, I don’t know. But they have to deal with a lot of extra things because of their ability to move so quickly. Suspending their ship in a mass effect field makes them almost zero in weight and can let them accelerate far faster than normal.
    -
    Light lag is the most common here, as the image of the enemies ship does not appear as where they are, but where they’ve been.

  86. Draco February 3, 2013 at 9:35 pm -      #4386

    I’m making some assumptions. It’s not stated at what speed they fight at. I was just taking into consideration that mass effect ships can continuously cruise in FTL without heating up badly. It’s in combat where they start to get too hot…

1 42 43 44

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.