Halo Vs Mass Effect

Halo Vs Mass Effect

Here we have a clash of two Sci-Fi franchises looking for bragging rights. I don’t know enough about the Mass Effect universe to give a fair estimation on who would win, so I’ll leave it to the good hands of the BankGambling readers.

Who wins?

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6,626 Comments on "Halo Vs Mass Effect"

  1. orpheus12 March 12, 2010 at 3:56 pm -      #101

    i don’t think Mass effect is going to get the fact pile award, but halo might. O_o

  2. Jimmie_Rox March 12, 2010 at 4:28 pm -      #102

    @ Beli

    Not if it only reacted to objects with sufficient momentum

  3. Belisaurius March 12, 2010 at 4:58 pm -      #103

    @Jimmie

    Thats very fixable by modifying the suit to react to high tempuratures as well. With an omni-tool, this can be done in field.

    Of course, this assumes that covenant weapons aren’t above the minimum threshold already.

    Starships, however, do not need this reactive feature and have the reactor power to keep shields up during combat.

  4. Jimmie_Rox March 12, 2010 at 6:04 pm -      #104

    @ Beli

    Fair enough, well then, because the kinetic barrier is probably impervious to heat then i think the plasma would be deflected away.

  5. Darkbladex96 March 12, 2010 at 7:02 pm -      #105

    kinetic barriers do not offer protection from, heat, cold etc.. covenant weaponry is plasma based, it has the mass and momentum so KBs react to it.

    also no one is assuming the KBs have infinite resistance just the way they work is very effective in both universes, defense capability-energy requirement ratio for new KBs are very good, they dont try to resist the projectile, they simply smack it away.

    the UNSC and the broken war torn covenant may have bigger guns but how fast and manueverable are the ships during combat? mass effect ships could easily hit and run instead of have a face down. can anyone show me like blueprints of UNSC and covenant ships? because im sure ME could 1 shot a shit load of halo’s things exepct covenant sure the ships are shielded.

  6. Darkbladex96 March 12, 2010 at 7:25 pm -      #106

    disruptor torpedoes are gonna be hell, in close quarters

  7. Sergey March 12, 2010 at 7:26 pm -      #107

    halo.wikia.com/wiki/Mac#cite_note-2#“Super”_Magnetic_Accelerator_Cannon

    “These cannons fire a 3000-ton ferric-tungsten round at nearly 50% the speed of light, impacting with a massive amount of relativistic kinetic energy, which at 50% of the speed of light is of equal power to 9.98 teratons of TNT. No known ship, UNSC or Covenant, has been shown to survive the impact of one of these rounds. Against Covenant shield technology, the rounds possess enough kinetic energy to punch through shields, cut through the ship, and, upon exit, still retain enough energy to cripple or destroy a second ship.”

    If the strongest weapon does 38 kilotons (ME), what chance do they have against 9TT fired by the UNSC? Plus, KB don’t protect against radiation, heat, or cold, they also only respond to [b]supersonic[/b] hits.

  8. Darkbladex96 March 12, 2010 at 7:53 pm -      #108

    not only super sonic hits,basically anything faster then a punch and ship KBs are always active.

    “If the strongest weapon does 38 kilotons (ME), what chance do they have against 9TT fired by the UNSC? Plus, KB don’t protect against radiation, heat, or cold, they also only respond to [b]supersonic[/b] hits.”

    alot of a chance actually, first off how many ships have this weapon? whats its firing rate? it maybe thrown off by the KBs and not impact the ship. the newer combat kbs arent static shields they are raging torrents of gravitc force.

    once again hit and run, board and seize tactics no miliatry is gonna fight heads up against ships larger then anything your galaxy could muster.

    FTL in distrutor torpedo to the bridge FTL out, FTL in 38kiloton slug to the reator FTL out. FTL in release shuttle FTL out. they really dont have to fight them in a head to head dual. they might try at first but after that nope.

    “Contrary to popular belief, Sovereign’s main gun was not a directed energy weapon. Rather, its massive element zero core powered an electromagnetic field suspending a liquid iron-uranium-tungsten alloy that shaped into armor-piercing projectiles when fired. The jet of molten metal, accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light, destroys targets by impact force and irresistible heat.

    Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign’s gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser’s firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.”

    can you imagine fighters swarming around with these? this weapon is in service.

  9. Darkbladex96 March 12, 2010 at 7:54 pm -      #109

    ive always been aware of halos firepower.

  10. Jimmie_Rox March 12, 2010 at 7:55 pm -      #110

    @ Sergey

    The shipboard variant of that weapon only has an impact force of 58.5 kilotons, which ME’s kinetic barriers could probably cope with. And could you give a value for the rate of fire?

    Also, cold is of no relevance as the temperature of space is roughly 2.725 K so unless you’re suggesting the covenant have a weapon that can lower the temperature of the skin off a spaceship to something closer to absolute zero then…?

  11. Darkbladex96 March 12, 2010 at 8:01 pm -      #111

    plus human ships can release 1 of these 38 kiloton slugs every 5 sec, and other races every 2 sec, they would pop in for 5 seconds release a barrage and leave, ME ships can do this for 50 hrs with stopping-give or take about 10 from weapon discard heat.

  12. Jimmie_Rox March 12, 2010 at 8:27 pm -      #112

    dark, its our ships that can fire one of the 38 kiloton slugs every 2 secs, the Asari/Turian dreadnoughts can probably fire faster/more damaging slugs. For example if we can estimate that the Asari flagship, the Destiny Ascension can churn out a 120 kiloton slug every 2 seconds.

    However this is just an estimate based on linear scaling, obviously since the DA has 1000m accelerator when compared to the Alliance’s 800m accelerator it will be more powerful, however there may be a greater amount of power available to the accelerator, which would mean the rate of fire may be faster, or the slugs may have more energy.

  13. L-W March 12, 2010 at 9:43 pm -      #113

    How you guys have had this conversation for long enough without choking on your spittle is a miracle, a sheer miracle.

    1) “The heat is not in question here. What is is the ability of a covenant ship to push it. As the distance between the firing ship and the plasma torpedo increases, leverage falls overwhelmingly in the defending ships favor, the strength of the magnetic lenses determined by (power)/(distance^2).”

    Unless the plasma torpedo is maintained inside a self-enclosed magnetic sheath that can operate at velocities of 0.5c at distances of several light seconds that is, which it can; therefore absolutely toppling your entire postulation.

    2) “At long ranges, gravity wins out over magnetic forces.”

    Except where EM energy continues to remotely remain at a strength of 10^49 times the strength of gravity in a vacuum environment, therefore granting a plasma torpedo the ability to operate in the light second plus range. What did I tell you Beli about trying to apply scientific analysis to your work? You suck.

    3) “kinetic barriers do not offer protection from, heat, cold etc.. covenant weaponry is plasma based, it has the mass and momentum so KBs react to it.”

    Halo plasma weapons are very similar to a particle beam, in that they both fire a stream of energized particles at a target. Whilst one has a greater mass and a lower buoyancy does not mean that Kinetic Barriers will resist a projectile that is generating precisely 1,315,789 times the energy on impact that most Systems Alliance vessels can physically tolerate.

    This is literally amounting to saying that because a sheet of tissue will halt a spit wad, it will perform as equally well against stopping a 120mm artillery round; they simply do not just scale up.

    4) “also no one is assuming the KBs have infinite resistance just the way they work is very effective in both universes, defense capability-energy requirement ratio for new KBs are very good, they dont try to resist the projectile, they simply smack it away.”

    And yet a significant amount of energy is still imparted by even low kiloton impacts, however on the other hand, if you can’t effectively and totally block something going at 0.01 c, something going much faster or generating more energy than that will experience a much smaller proportion of bleedoff, and most of the energy will still hit the target, and against Systems Alliance ships that can be sliced apart by megajoule to gigajoule level particle beam weapons, this will prove to be fatal.

    It also means that their plasma torpedoes can do hull damage off the first shot rather than having to wear the barriers down first.

    However this still doesn’t take into account Covenant beam weapons, such as the Energy Projector, or Pulse Laser Turrets, which would prove to be incredibly effective against Systems Alliance vessels.

    5) “the UNSC and the broken war torn covenant may have bigger guns but how fast and manueverable are the ships during combat? mass effect ships could easily hit and run instead of have a face down. can anyone show me like blueprints of UNSC and covenant ships? because im sure ME could 1 shot a shit load of halo’s things exepct covenant sure the ships are shielded.”

    Here’s a start, why not provide evidence for excellent Systems Alliance accelerations? Then we may have something to go by other than your bogus claims.

    6) “disruptor torpedoes are gonna be hell, in close quarters”

    How so? This is precisely the reason why I loathe the no maths approach, because it grants you the ability to be absolutely lazy and provide no evidence as a result, allowing you to make bombastic claims which you are neither capable or willing to back up.

    7) “The shipboard variant of that weapon only has an impact force of 58.5 kilotons, which ME’s kinetic barriers could probably cope with. And could you give a value for the rate of fire?”

    Well that’s patently wrong:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD4Bi5-VtnY

    Four Frigates, each firing in the space of under two seconds, send up (based on scaling with the Dreadnought) a 900 kiloton to one megaton blast in an atmospheric environment no less. Of course the fastest we have seen a MAC recharge in game was about five seconds, so it is evidently clear that to accelerate heavier slugs over greater distances would require greater energy demands.

  14. Jimmie_Rox March 12, 2010 at 10:01 pm -      #114

    “7) “The shipboard variant of that weapon only has an impact force of 58.5 kilotons, which ME’s kinetic barriers could probably cope with. And could you give a value for the rate of fire?”
    Well that’s patently wrong:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD4Bi5-VtnY
    Four Frigates, each firing in the space of under two seconds, send up (based on scaling with the Dreadnought) a 900 kiloton to one megaton blast in an atmospheric environment no less. Of course the fastest we have seen a MAC recharge in game was about five seconds, so it is evidently clear that to accelerate heavier slugs over greater distances would require greater energy demands.”-L-W

    How is it patently wrong? If you read the article halo.wikia.com/wiki/Mac#cite_note-2# it specifies that the shipboard variant has the 58.5 kiloton impact slugs and also that they only need 3 hits from such a weapon to take out a covenant ship, ie a human alliance dreadnought would require only 5 hits from its main weapon to destroy a covenant ship. So if it had a 50% chance of hitting (that’s a low estimate, the actual hit percentage would probably be at least 90%) then that’s only 20 seconds to destroy a covenant ship.

  15. L-W March 12, 2010 at 10:30 pm -      #115

    A wiki isn’t a valid source, I can repeat this until I’m blue in the face and yet still people will continue to refer to a wiki of all things without doing the work for themselves.

    1) “t specifies that the shipboard variant has the 58.5 kiloton impact slugs and also that they only need 3 hits from such a weapon to take out a covenant ship”

    Which is based off of the 30km/s figure from “Reach”, in which a three hundred meter long Covenant vessel absorbed multiple MAC hits at a range of 3000km in which it struggled to apply sufficient delta-v as to dodge. Even assuming a generous flight time of five seconds, you’re still looking at individual impacts of 25 megatons for a vessel five times smaller than the standard Cruiser.

    Which fits in quite nicely with the conservative in-atmosphere Frigate impacts from the posted cut scene.

    2) “So if it had a 50% chance of hitting (that’s a low estimate, the actual hit percentage would probably be at least 90%) then that’s only 20 seconds to destroy a covenant ship.”

    Based on conservative plasma torpedo figures, at a range of 10,000km it would take 0.06 seconds for one Covenant plasma torpedo to destroy a Systems Alliance Dreadnought.

    Based on this screen shot from the “The Package”:

    images1.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/e/e4/CCS_Legends.jpg

    A CCS Cruiser can fire at least a dozen torpedoes in the space of a second, which means in the space of your twenty seconds, a single Covenant Cruiser can potentially do away with over two hundred and forty Dreadnoughts (never mind the fuckload of other near lightspeed beam weapons that the Covenant can simultaneously use). Isn’t it a bitch when the opponent isn’t an inert object unwilling to fight back?

  16. Zervziel March 12, 2010 at 11:14 pm -      #116

    Jimmie-Rox, it is a major mistake to trust Halopedia for anything other than actual canon. The numbers they throw out for some weapons are inconsistent with actual canon.

  17. Zervziel March 12, 2010 at 11:15 pm -      #117

    Wow. My wording for that post sucked.

  18. Belisaurius March 13, 2010 at 3:12 pm -      #118

    “Unless the plasma torpedo is maintained inside a self-enclosed magnetic sheath that can operate at velocities of 0.5c at distances of several light seconds that is, which it can;”

    Considering that the plasma torpedo could be seen by the human eye and guided (Fall of reach, page 109) I doubt that.

    “Four Frigates, each firing in the space of under two seconds, send up (based on scaling with the Dreadnought) a 900 kiloton to one megaton blast in an atmospheric environment no less.”
    That was pretty tame for a megaton detonation
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNcQX033V_M
    this is about a 10-12 megaton blast, what I saw in your video does even entire the same scale.

  19. Darkbladex96 March 13, 2010 at 4:16 pm -      #119

    “How you guys have had this conversation for long enough without choking on your spittle is a miracle, a sheer miracle.”

    because i dont choke under these circumstances. if im wrong im wrong and i accept it.

    “How so? This is precisely the reason why I loathe the no maths approach, because it grants you the ability to be absolutely lazy and provide no evidence as a result, allowing you to make bombastic claims which you are neither capable or willing to back up.”

    well i dont have a degree in calculating space-time distortions. id rather just say that they are hell, rather than lie and post some false values in a ludacris formula that would be easily pointed out as wrong. the only info i have on them is the codex entry which states that they cause space time distortions and cause the target to rip itself apart. i actually dont trust wiki’s much but the ME’s one is carbon copied from the codex.

    “Here’s a start, why not provide evidence for excellent Systems Alliance accelerations? Then we may have something to go by other than your bogus claims.”

    searching……cannot find information on the acceleration of allaince ships; however i have found that combat in ME takes place in intervals and its not uncommon for them to FTL retreat mid combat. frigates never slow down they circle strafe around targets during combat. ships in mass effect can attack while moving FTL. returning to FTL i cant prove.
    masseffect.bioware.com/me1/galacticcodex/normandy.html

    so has the MEs hit and run been debunked? does dropping shuttles off for board and seize still stand?

    if that is the case i can can move on. Question-why havent the covies glassed earth is it PIS or CIS on a mass scale.

  20. Darkbladex96 March 13, 2010 at 4:18 pm -      #120

    srry forgot the combat tactics link gonna try and find it again

  21. orpheus12 March 13, 2010 at 4:35 pm -      #121

    “well finally people have shutup about this mass effect wins….fp award for them”
    Do you still feel that way ?

  22. Darkbladex96 March 13, 2010 at 4:53 pm -      #122

    Are you addressing anyone in particular

  23. orpheus12 March 13, 2010 at 5:01 pm -      #123

    “Are you addressing anyone in particular”
    Not exactly, I just saw that earlier comment and I see that its mood, may just want to be “updated”.
    Hence the previous comments on the covenant ships versus the ships in mass effect.

  24. Prime Chaos March 13, 2010 at 5:50 pm -      #124

    The Covenant didn’t glass Earth because it had the entrance to the Ark and they needed to find it. Once they did it was too late because the Elites arrived and were slowly defeating the Brute controlled ships. After that they all went to the Ark to fight.

  25. L-W March 14, 2010 at 12:37 am -      #125

    1) “Considering that the plasma torpedo could be seen by the human eye and guided (Fall of reach, page 109) I doubt that.”

    Just to be safe, I read through pages 100 to 120, no mention of plasma torpedoes. However on page 141 we do get this lovely quote:

    “Plasma filled the forescreen; the center of the red mass turned blue. Greens and yellows radiated outward, the light frequencies blue-shifting in spectra.

    “Distance three hundred thousand kilometers,” Lieutenant Dominique said. “Collision in two seconds.””

    Three hundred thousand kilometers in two seconds? That’s 0.5c.

    2) “this is about a 10-12 megaton blast, what I saw in your video does even entire the same scale.”

    You fail, hard. Typical no maths approach. Typical laziness. Typical ineptitude at providing any quantifiable evidence other than “uh, geez guyz, look at dis”.

    So, here’s what the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has to say on nuclear detonations:

    The energy released from a nuclear weapon detonated in the troposphere can be divided into four basic categories:
    Blast—40-50% of total energy
    Thermal radiation—30-50% of total energy
    Ionizing radiation—5% of total energy
    Residual radiation—5-10% of total energy

    Blast effects (i.e. most of the yield) are both caused by the expansion of heat. The atmospheric interaction with thermal radiation is what contributes to the visible fireball for however brief it is. The end result, that is the fireball, is basically just air hot enough to emit visible light.

    The difference between a nuclear weapon and a high relativistic kinetic energy impact is that a nuclear explosion releases more energy per tonnage of material in a far shorter time frame, hence black body temperatures at which it expands and slowly cools are reached sooner, but in a vastly smaller volume. If we look at the area of the explosion seen in the cut scene, it covers a bare minimum of at least half a dozen kilometers which would dictate the rapid and chaotic expansion of thermal energies.

    Since thermal emission depends on temperature and emission in visible wavelengths would decrease depending on temperature in this case, this means a conventional explosive would result in a smaller fireball per megaton of yield than a nuclear one.
    The conventional explosion of same yield would have a much less bright, and smaller fireball. Any fireballs are the result of bits of the shell or the target flashing into plasma thanks to shock-heating on impact.

    And the sad part? This is a MAC round being in the atmosphere! If I applied the drag formula, we could potentially double or even triple the output of the MAC round in space combat. As it stands, even the lowliest of UNSC capital ships is still an insurmountable threat to even dozens of the mightiest Alliance vessels at range.

    3) “well i dont have a degree in calculating space-time distortions. id rather just say that they are hell, rather than lie and post some false values in a ludacris formula that would be easily pointed out as wrong. the only info i have on them is the codex entry which states that they cause space time distortions and cause the target to rip itself apart. i actually dont trust wiki’s much but the ME’s one is carbon copied from the codex.”

    Damage is not the only factor in terms of battlefield success, after all would Disruptor torpedoes be capable of breaking through 50mm flak screen? Catching up with an accelerating UNSC vessel capable of thousands of G’s of acceleration? Survive being swarmed by dozens of even faster Archer missiles? The most missiles we ever see during a major Systems Alliance engagement is a few dozen, how can they hope to compete with UNSC missile swarms measured in the hundreds?

    4) “cannot find information on the acceleration of allaince ships; however i have found that combat in ME takes place in intervals and its not uncommon for them to FTL retreat mid combat.”

    Because they are insanely limited by how much their capacitors can tolerate, even the heat radiated by a nearby planet is enough to push them to the operational limit. However neither UNSC or Covenant vessels are shown to share this weakness, often times even engaging within the upper atmospheres of Gas Giants.

    5) “frigates never slow down they circle strafe around targets during combat. ships in mass effect can attack while moving FTL. returning to FTL i cant prove.”

    They are also packing nowhere near the double digit kiloton levels of firepower that Dreadnoughts frequently use to effortlessly gut other smaller warships. Maneuverability is about the only thing they have going for them since, since a concentrated flask barrage or even a single Archer missile would be more than enough to severely ruin their day.

    6) “so has the MEs hit and run been debunked? does dropping shuttles off for board and seize still stand?”

    It’s still viable, but they are going to lose a fuck-load of boarding craft in any attempt to take on even the lightest of UNSC vessels. Against the Covenant, this is a useless gesture to the highest degree.

    There aren’t even enough Dreadnoughts in the combined Alliance fleet to threaten just one Covenant Cruiser

  26. Belisaurius March 14, 2010 at 1:11 am -      #126

    “Just to be safe, I read through pages 100 to 120, no mention of plasma torpedoes. However on page 141 we do get this lovely quote”

    …which book?
    I’m holding Fall of Reach in front of me and Page 141 is Keyes reading Fhajad’s work on how sensor profiles get messed up in slipspace.

    Can someone else find this?

  27. L-W March 14, 2010 at 1:42 am -      #127

    My copy is probably different to yours (apparently they re-printed several versions of “The Fall of Reach”), it seems that my page 133 is the equivelant of your 141, therefore I’ve altered my search parameter to include pages 80 to 110.

    The only thing I can see relating to a plasma discharge (other than pulse lasers) is this:

    “The Covenant ship stood its ground. The bloodred light that had pooled on its lateral line burst forth, streaked toward the Commonwealth, passing the MAC round a mere kilometer away. The red light glowed and pulsed almost as if it were liquid; its edges roiled and fluttered. It elongated into a teardrop of ruby light five meters long.”

    If this is the case, then the description of the projectile doesn’t match any known characteristics of a plasma torpedo other than it being guided along by a secondary targeting system.

    If this is not the section you are referring to, then please post the quote in it’s entirety.

  28. Darkbladex96 March 14, 2010 at 1:42 am -      #128

    @L-W
    the alliance has 6 dreadnaughts.

    “It’s still viable, but they are going to lose a fuck-load of boarding craft in any attempt to take on even the lightest of UNSC vessels. Against the Covenant, this is a useless gesture to the highest degree.”

    theres lots of canon fodder in the terminus systems.

  29. Belisaurius March 14, 2010 at 1:55 am -      #129

    “If this is the case, then the description of the projectile doesn’t match any known characteristics of a plasma torpedo other than it being guided along by a secondary targeting system. ”

    Then I must confess to have no idea what the hell you’re calling a plasma torpedo.

    Nor could I even locate the passage you quoted.

  30. L-W March 14, 2010 at 2:19 am -      #130

    1) “the alliance has 6 dreadnaughts.”

    Enough to possibly go toe to toe with a lone Frigate.

    2) “theres lots of canon fodder in the terminus systems.”

    Now they just need ships that can stand up to the UNSC or Covenant equivelant in any number.

    3) “Then I must confess to have no idea what the hell you’re calling a plasma torpedo.”

    Typical plasma torpedoes are usually in the ultraviolet range and often outright destroy small capital ships on contact, either this is a completely different weapon, or it’s a torpedo operating far below average operating capacity.

    4) “Nor could I even locate the passage you quoted.”

    Fourth page of chapter seventeen. But here’s a novel idea! Why not provide the quote you’ve been referencing this entire time, then you can stop shifting the burden of proof.

  31. Darkbladex96 March 14, 2010 at 2:36 am -      #131

    “Enough to possibly go toe to toe with a lone Frigate.”

    halos space forces are beastly what happened to the unsc small arms? they kinda need to pick up the pace.

    “Now they just need ships that can stand up to the UNSC or Covenant equivelant in any number.”

    unless we actually find enough info on the reapers, then ME has nothing but goodass ground forces.

  32. Belisaurius March 14, 2010 at 2:58 am -      #132

    “Now they just need ships that can stand up to the UNSC or Covenant equivelant in any number. ”

    Just slap a thanix on each one and you’re good to go.

    “Fourth page of chapter seventeen. But here’s a novel idea! Why not provide the quote you’ve been referencing this entire time, then you can stop shifting the burden of proof.”
    Nope, you’ve got it right on the nose.

    “Fourth page of chapter seventeen. But here’s a novel idea! Why not provide the quote you’ve been referencing this entire time, then you can stop shifting the burden of proof.”

    Oh right, the dead on charge down the gravity well. The infamous Keyes loop.

    The acceleration was subjective, the Iroquois was accelerating with gravity directly towards the incoming plasma torpedo so the intercept was far faster than it should be.

    So you’ve got an exception on your hands. And no, I have no idea how they accelerated to relativistic speeds even charging down the gravity well.

  33. L-W March 14, 2010 at 3:51 am -      #133

    1) “Just slap a thanix on each one and you’re good to go.”

    Do you feel like quantifying that? I could remind you until I’m blue in the face, but making passing gestures on what constitutes as a possible defense is useless and fucking outright dishonest unless you feel like doing some hard number crunching.

    2) “Oh right, the dead on charge down the gravity well. The infamous Keyes loop.”

    I would commend you on being such a blatant liar in the face of adversity, but such dishonesty is not new for you, nor your standard of what you call debating.

    Nothing suggests that they were charging headlong into gravity well, nothing other than the fact that the Covenant Destroyer listed into the atmosphere of Sigma Octanus AFTER being destroyed by two plasma torpedoes and a volley of Archer missiles.

    3) “The acceleration was subjective, the Iroquois was accelerating with gravity directly towards the incoming plasma torpedo so the intercept was far faster than it should be.”

    Bullshit. The only observable effect the local system had on any of the vessels was the tumbling into the atmosphere of the debris following the destruction of the Destroyer.

    Then we have the following exchange:

    A) Iroquois moves towards Destroyer at 150% acceleration capacity.

    B) Enemy plasma torpedoes launched.

    C) Collision with plasma in nineteen seconds.

    D) Collision with plasma in seven seconds.

    E) Plasma torpedoes 300,000km distant, impact in two seconds.

    F) Iroquois dodges.

    G) Torpedoes continue along their arc before eventually turning and continuing pursuit.

    H) “Plasma increasing velocity. Matching our speed…overtaking our velocity now. They will intercept in forty-three seconds.”

    I) After an exchange they then announce that they will impact the Covenant ship in eight seconds.

    Not only do we have multiple light second trajectories vastly superior to Systems Alliance long range combat, but the only way the Iroquois could match their respective speeds is if they were using a high relativistic engine unseen in UNSC usage (UNSC acceleration typically remains in the two thousand G range typical for fusion torches); you may try and wash your hands of the fact, but there is a genuine discrepancy between the two claims that you’ve just casually ignored, especially when the Iroquois’s pass over the Destroyer resembles nothing like high relativistic velocities.

    Of course it doesn’t take a genius to realize that a Covenant plasma torpedoes are indeed variable, and that their behavior is dependent on many variables.

    4) “So you’ve got an exception on your hands. And no, I have no idea how they accelerated to relativistic speeds even charging down the gravity well.”

    An upper end demonstration of PT performance, but not an exception. There are many examples of Halo ranges that are demonstrably greater than Mass Effect examples:

    In The Fall of Reach, a ship with a lightspeed beam weapon (possibly an energy projector) was hitting targets at 100,000 km.

    First Strike describes 10,000 km as ‘only’ a short tactical maneuver that a Covenant vessel can accomplish in eighteen seconds. It also has the Ascendant Justice making tactical maneuvers of a distance of 20,000 km, impressive, considering how crippled it is.

    Ghosts of Onyx calls 100km ‘point-blank’ (as in, will hit every time) and has the Incorruptible making 30,000 km tactical maneuvers in a few seconds.

    These long ranges aren’t unheard of in Halo.

  34. L-W March 14, 2010 at 4:23 am -      #134

    Editors note:

    Plus (this should have been the first thing I noted – and that ashamedly overlooked), even if the Iroquois was charging into a gravity well with noticeable variation (even though it should be noted by the crew), you have the issue that:

    A) No Earth sized planet generates a significant gravity field outside of a distance of several light seconds, which means that if the Iroquois was matching the acceleration of the plasma torpedo due to the significant side effects of a gravity well, it would be slamming into the surface of the planet less than two seconds later.

    The only way Belisaurius’s postulation could work is if the Iroquois kept slamming on the brakes every few milliseconds, frequently alternating between relativistic velocities to near stops.

    2) An Earth sized planet is only imparting about 10m/s^2 of acceleration on an object trapped in it’s gravitational field. Fatal to unpowered objects, but to powered vessels crossing a distance of 300,000km in a few seconds it is naught but a gnat fart.

    Plus, the acceleration due to gravity decays as 1/r^2, where r is the distance from the Earth. Thus, at large distances, the effect from Earth’s gravitational field is very small and unpronounced, meaning that for the Iroquois or the plasma torpedoes to feel the negative or beneficial effects of the gravity well, they would have to be extremely close to the planet, making the velocities traveled absolutely negligible.

    In other words, for Belisaurius to be correct, from the Iroquois’s perspective, the planet would go from being a dot, a really close flash of a garbled mess, then once again a shrinking dot in the far off distance all in the space of less than five seconds.

  35. Belisaurius March 14, 2010 at 10:02 am -      #135

    @L-W
    It was charging down the gravity well of the local sun, not the local planet.

  36. Darkbladex96 March 14, 2010 at 10:51 am -      #136

    @Diana
    “theres lots of canon fodder in the terminus systems.”

    “Using Blue Suns, Eclipse & Blood Pack? I wonder if even the Illusive Man would waste his money hiring incompetent thugs that can’t even manage to take out a single C-Sec officer(Archangel), let alone to combat ODSTs & SPARTANS.”

    pointless argument, archangel had all entrances and exits sealed leaving only a narrow corridor available for approach making anyone crossing easy prey for the expert sniper. plus they were suffering from extreme PIS like storm troopers. it took until the plot device of shepard appearing for them to use any form of tactics. as shown in game they couldve easily overwhelmed the position. in addition they want use to believe that between 3 large established merc groups that basically run the terminus, they could only muster 1 broken gunship, PIS.

  37. Belisaurius March 14, 2010 at 11:30 am -      #137

    “If the strongest weapon does 38 kilotons (ME), what chance do they have against 9TT fired by the UNSC? Plus, KB don’t protect against radiation, heat, or cold, they also only respond to [b]supersonic[/b] hits.”

    Super MAC guns are stationary orbital platforms with ground based generators. No good for the offensive and vulnerable to extreme range bombardment (giant rocks).

    “So, here’s what the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has to say on nuclear detonations:

    The energy released from a nuclear weapon detonated in the troposphere can be divided into four basic categories:
    Blast—40-50% of total energy
    Thermal radiation—30-50% of total energy
    Ionizing radiation—5% of total energy
    Residual radiation—5-10% of total energy”

    So that blast was what, 50% efficient? 30%? Either way, the blast you quoted before should have been at least similar.

    “We cannot yet assume if the Thanix Cannon will be able to punch a hole on a Covenant Battle Cruiser shielding since there is no statistical measure present on how powerful it is, plus, only the Turians were able to miniaturized secretly Sovereign’s gun.”

    The Turians developed it, but at the very least Cerebrus has their hands on it. Between humanity and the Turians, that’s most of the fighting power of the Citadel.
    Overall, we’re talking a cruiser worth of firepower and seeing as Sovereign managed to punch through the shields of most ships instantly, we can assume this is on par with the power of the only other weapon that can punch through kinetic barriers, the main cannon on a dreadnought.

  38. L-W March 14, 2010 at 7:46 pm -      #138

    1) “It was charging down the gravity well of the local sun, not the local planet.”

    Gravity diminishes with distance, so no, the nearby star is not going to be positively affecting powered objects that orbit around the system. However, technically gravity extends infinitely out from every object with mass, according to Newton’s law of universal gravitation, F=GMM/r^2. That “r^2″ term means that as the distance between two objects increases the effect of gravity decreases with the square of the distance.

    At a distance in which the Planet orbits around the stable stellar band of a main sequence star, both the Iroquois and the two plasma torpedoes are going to be experiencing less than a nominal fraction of the 274.0 m/s^2 equatorial surface acceleration, which at distance of 5-10 light minutes is practically non-existent to vehicles and projectiles moving at significant fractions of lightspeed.

    This is just the most bizarre justification ever.

    2) “So that blast was what, 50% efficient? 30%? Either way, the blast you quoted before should have been at least similar.”

    I’m sorry, but right now you’re just demonstrating that you’re a fucking idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about what you’re talking about. Even if you don’t, at least READ the fucking evidence given to you before making such ridiculous claims.

    A nuclear detonation of fissile or fusible material releases energy far faster on an atomic level than a kinetic impactor by sheer fiat of the vast majority of particles in a nuclear reaction reaching critical state far sooner; hence the temperatures reached are higher which correlates with the rate of the fireballs expansion. It will not only reach a black body state sooner, but the bleed off will be noticeably less dramatic (you only have to watch nuclear detonations in slow motion to understand this).

    KE impacts and conventional explosives release thermal emissions depending on temperature; and emissions in visible wavelengths would decrease depending on temperature in this case, this means a conventional explosive would result in a smaller fireball per megaton of yield than a nuclear one.

    However this is due to the nature of their reactant. Since a Ferric Tungsten slug generates a detonation only once the individual shells and fragments become plasma due to shock heating, therefore unless the shell impacts a perfectly flat, impossibly solid object, most of the energy is going to be wasted or simply too chaotically released to reach a black body state sooner.

  39. orpheus12 March 14, 2010 at 7:55 pm -      #139

    So…how about the reapers ?
    They might pose a threat.
    I’m sorry, I’m not exactly in a position to argue in this debate, not really good with physics or math.
    So…who wins ?

  40. Belisaurius March 14, 2010 at 8:13 pm -      #140

    “However this is due to the nature of their reactant. Since a Ferric Tungsten slug generates a detonation only once the individual shells and fragments become plasma due to shock heating, therefore unless the shell impacts a perfectly flat, impossibly solid object, most of the energy is going to be wasted or simply too chaotically released to reach a black body state sooner.”

    But isn’t this indicitive of the impact? On one hand, the target in question is of forerunner construction and was all but unaffected by multiple kinetic strikes, therefore, the surface in question can be assumed to be both harder and stronger than the ferric round by enough orders of magnitude. Thus, it would be impacting and impossibly hard object. Judging by the lack of debris trails left by fragmentation of the projectile, we can assume that the round hit very solidly .

    The key factors in all this were the brightness of the impact and lack of shockwave. Neither approached the intensity of a nuclear detonation when they should have Exceeded it.

    A kinetic impact doesn’t leave fallout, therefore the energy can not escape via radiation of alpha, beta, or gamma particles and waves. Similarly, neutrons can not radiate since there was no neutron reaction (Unless the nuclei were torn apart by the impact, but what are the chances of that). Therefore, most of the energy ends up as heat.

  41. L-W March 15, 2010 at 12:31 am -      #141

    1) “But isn’t this indicitive of the impact? On one hand, the target in question is of forerunner construction and was all but unaffected by multiple kinetic strikes, therefore, the surface in question can be assumed to be both harder and stronger than the ferric round by enough orders of magnitude.”

    Basic collision physics says no. Whilst the initial impact would condense the round at the point of impact, the rest of the structure will sheer due to internal stress and heating, causing it to fly apart at significant velocities.

    Trying to attribute an even pattern of detonations when high velocity impactors very rarely function as so unless under the strictest of circumstances is fallacious at best.

    2) “Thus, it would be impacting and impossibly hard object. Judging by the lack of debris trails left by fragmentation of the projectile, we can assume that the round hit very solidly.”

    Point this out. I want you to take a HD screen shot demonstrating where there are no vapor trails caused by fragmenting particles. Although any other person without a piece of reptilian sludge for a brain could point out that:

    A) Shock heated particles rapidly become too diffuse in the atmosphere to remain visible at any distance greater than 30-60km. In fact if I were to take the scaling law of luminosity into account, any fragments of around one ton (based on a peak black body radiation of 10,000K) in atmosphere with an albedo of roughly 0.33 would rapidly become too diffuse in the atmosphere to register above the background radiation caused by the detonation itself. Since most of the coalescing debris will have a generally lateral point of motion from the impact, I’m looking forward to seeing this.

    B) The expansion of thermal emissivity is not uniform, in fact if you pay attention, you can see multiple contour trails resonating outward from the impact, indicating a high degree of vaporized ejecta (suggesting that much of the mass was indeed shock heated on impact).

    3) “The key factors in all this were the brightness of the impact and lack of shockwave.”

    At a distance of of a 100 km, any megaton level shock wave would return to sub-atmospheric densities of 1 PSI at a distance of 11.5 kilometers, barely registering a response at greater distances. What you are referring to is a bow wave, in which the moving front generates so much friction on contact with the atmosphere that it starts to visibly become plasma.

    This does not always occur with nuclear explosions, and in the case of asymmetrical expansion caused by shock heating it is even rarer. Just look at Cherokee and Dominic as examples:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvzpqecuB-M&feature=PlayList&p=3FD8661791E27591&index=34

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBzYCwc6lL8&feature=PlayList&p=BB41FCAEC0851BA9&index=36

    And do you know what the sad part is? These are just MAC rounds fired inside the atmosphere. Using the drag formula (FD = 1/2 pv^2 Cd A) if we assume MAC flight time in the Halo 3 cut scene is 0.5 seconds and at a distance of 100+ km, you get 600-9,000 kps (0.03 c) for standard flight time in a vacuum.

    You lost this debate before it even started.

    4) “The key factors in all this were the brightness”

    Unless that is a controlled nuclear explosion releases more energy per unit of explosive material, hence the emitting radiating temperatures reached are higher but concentrated in a smaller volume, thus giving it the appearance of being brighter.

    5) “when they should have Exceeded it.”

    No, no it shouldn’t have. Explaining why the enthalpy of nuclear detonations compared to conventional explosives or high speed impacts is something that most people learn in High School physics; so if some High School kid is expected to get it, why are you struggling so much?

    6) “A kinetic impact doesn’t leave fallout, therefore the energy can not escape via radiation of alpha, beta, or gamma particles and waves.”

    Which amounts to 5% of the energy released by a nuclear explosion, but that’s a generally irrelevant non-sequitur.

    7) “Similarly, neutrons can not radiate since there was no neutron reaction (Unless the nuclei were torn apart by the impact, but what are the chances of that). Therefore, most of the energy ends up as heat.”

    tizona.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/stupid-burns.jpg

    Megaton=/=nuclear detonation. It has been just been so well associated with nuclear detonations due to the cultural vernacular, that everyone instantly assumes (well, not everyone, only idiots) that it must mean the comparable energy released by a nuclear explosive. Any explosion can be a “megaton” if it releases the required amount of energy, which is 4.184E15 joules. Megaton is merely a TNT equivalent, meaning you need one mega ton (weight) of TNT to equal that explosive force. Nukes by their design, are much more efficient then TNT, hence why they produce a much higher enthalpy for their weight. Kinetic energy will produce an explosion, and that too can be rated in terms of TNT equivalent, because its all a matter of how much energy is “released”. If it releases 4.184E15 joules, its a megaton, whether its done by a nuclear bomb, conventional explosives or kinetic impacts.

    Now, just for shits and giggles, I would like you to point out to me why these single blasts are engulfing at least a quarter of the 14km length of the Dreadnought, when even a megaton nuke only generates a fireball radius of 400 meters. As we all should know, fireball radius scales with (Y^0.4), where Y is yield. Also note that a ground-contact airburst creates a larger fireball because some of the energy is reflected back up from the surface; so please, I await your explanation.

    Or shall we just save us the time and chalk this up to your ridiculously poor grasp of scientific principles? Along with your belief that a gigaton explosion could slag a continent, nuclear explosions don’t become immediately diffuse in space, torque doesn’t apply lateral momentum in a vacuum and that stellar gravities apply significantly noticeable acceleration to powered objects moving at a fraction of c from distances of light minutes.

  42. Jimmie_Rox March 15, 2010 at 1:29 pm -      #142

    Can I just point out that Turian dreadnoughts are powerful enough to intercept and destroy comets, so although there are no numbers for their destructive power it can be assumed that their power is greater than that of a human dreadnought.

    To be honest though, in terms of space combat this doesn’t really seem like a fight the ME universe can win, because although ME troops have ground superiority their space fleet is sadly lacking. Thing is we still aren’t addressing the power of the reapers. Or taking into account the 50,000 ships of the migrant fleet, which being Quarian probably has some pretty powerful weaponry at it’s disposal.

  43. Belisaurius March 15, 2010 at 2:00 pm -      #143

    “At a distance in which the Planet orbits around the stable stellar band of a main sequence star, both the Iroquois and the two plasma torpedoes are going to be experiencing less than a nominal fraction of the 274.0 m/s^2 equatorial surface acceleration, which at distance of 5-10 light minutes is practically non-existent to vehicles and projectiles moving at significant fractions of lightspeed.”

    They also made a slingshot maneuver around the star so we can conclude that the battle took place relatively close to the sun in question.

    “I’m sorry, but right now you’re just demonstrating that you’re a fucking idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about what you’re talking about. Even if you don’t, at least READ the fucking evidence given to you before making such ridiculous claims.”

    …so tell me, out of the thousands upon thousands of students in college, how many would be able to get that far?

    Quit bitching about how nobody else bothers with the physics, it’s a pointless intimidation tactic at best and displays disgusting quantities of hubris and immaturity at worse.

    “No, no it shouldn’t have. Explaining why the enthalpy of nuclear detonations compared to conventional explosives or high speed impacts is something that most people learn in High School physics; so if some High School kid is expected to get it, why are you struggling so much?”

    High schools don’t mention mass defects, nor how the missing mass has been converted into energy, nor bonding energy, nor E=MC^2.

    “KE impacts and conventional explosives release thermal emissions depending on temperature; and emissions in visible wavelengths would decrease depending on temperature in this case, this means a conventional explosive would result in a smaller fireball per megaton of yield than a nuclear one. ”

    Energy go where?

  44. L-W March 15, 2010 at 8:01 pm -      #144

    1) “Can I just point out that Turian dreadnoughts are powerful enough to intercept and destroy comets, so although there are no numbers for their destructive power it can be assumed that their power is greater than that of a human dreadnought.”

    How big were these comets? If you don’t mind me asking.

    2) “To be honest though, in terms of space combat this doesn’t really seem like a fight the ME universe can win, because although ME troops have ground superiority their space fleet is sadly lacking.”

    Mass Effect ground forces are precisely what troops of the future should be. However most sci-fi creators can’t understand why it’s so jarring to have an uber-navy capable of lobbing around teratons of energy, whilst having ground troops that look more like Vietnam era rejects.

    3) “They also made a slingshot maneuver around the star so we can conclude that the battle took place relatively close to the sun in question.”

    So close that the debris from the battle drifted towards the habitable planet hundreds of millions of kilometers away, rather than the main sequence star itself which should (by fiat of the system being populated) posses an equatorial surface gravity nearly thirty times greater than that of the Earth.

    Fall of Reach: 143

    “A smile spread across Keyes’ face as he watched the alien ship burn, list, and slowly plunge into Sigma Octanus IV’s gravity well. Without power, the Covenant vessel would burn up in the planet’s atmosphere.”

    Amazing how Captain Keyes could watch the Destroyer burn up in the atmosphere of a planet from around the nearest star, which would have to be drifting for sixteen minutes even if the debris itself retained a velocity of half the speed of light.

    4) “…so tell me, out of the thousands upon thousands of students in college, how many would be able to get that far?”

    Enthalpy is a part of the High School curriculum in some countries (Israel, Britain, US, Australia), even if it’s not, it should be dramatically easy to follow since common sense dictates that inert objects (such as Tungsten) don’t make great high profile reactants unless channeled under extreme circumstances.

    5) “Quit bitching about how nobody else bothers with the physics, it’s a pointless intimidation tactic at best and displays disgusting quantities of hubris and immaturity at worse.”

    What a bizarre accusation.

    You call intimidation, I call it correction. There is no grey line in scientific debate my friend, there is only objective evidence; the sad part is you infer that you’ve been objected to my hubris when in fact you merely feel distressed over the fact that ultimately you attempted to engage in a rational scientific discussion and you were wrong on many basic points. I’m not here to give you a gold star for trying, if that’s how debate worked we would simply never get anywhere.

    Personally I find your indignant posting of incorrect postulations presented as evidence to be an even more disturbing trend, yet you behave as if I was the one that wronged you by the merit of simply correcting you on ignorant statements. If scientific discussion isn’t your flavour, don’t partake from the menu.

    6) “High schools don’t mention mass defects, nor how the missing mass has been converted into energy, nor bonding energy, nor E=MC^2.”

    Enough of it is covered (yes, even relativistic mass is covered) in any basic curriculum to recognize that a volatile reactant would get hotter faster than an inert compound that requires extreme stresses to demonstrate even a remotely similar reaction.

    Christ, even a child could figure out that a can of gasoline is far more suited for ignition than a block of iron.

    7) “Energy go where?”

    The same place as every other boom, bang, whizz, pop and kaboom ever witnessed in human history; the atmosphere. The atmosphere is excellent for absorbing large detonations such as that caused by a nuclear explosion.

  45. Jimmie_Rox March 15, 2010 at 8:38 pm -      #145

    “The hanar colony planet of Belan was recently devastated by the passing comet CR1331 Kingu. The comet’s mass, one fourth the size of Belan’s moon, caused mass tidal disruption, throwing the world into chaos.”

    I can’t give an accurate quote for the size of Belan’s moon, but as the Hanar are an oxygen breathing aquatic/amphibious life form I’d predict it’s mass as being approximately equal to the mass of the moon.

    Yeah, I can’t understand why Mass Effect’s space forces are so underpowered, at the very least their dreadnoughts should be capable of inflicting multi megaton hits.

    I’d like to see a battle between the Polity universe and the Haloverse simply for the rape that would be inflicted xD

  46. Darkbladex96 March 15, 2010 at 8:48 pm -      #146

    @jimmie_rox

    the quarian flotilla consists of 17 million ships. not 50 thousand.

  47. Darkbladex96 March 15, 2010 at 8:52 pm -      #147

    srry my bad its 50,000 ships 17 million quarians

  48. L-W March 15, 2010 at 9:00 pm -      #148

    Of course this tells us nothing about how they intended to destroy the comet, only that naval action was considered. For all we know they merely could have been planning to apply enough lateral momentum to the surface as to drive it away from the colony, which even a human dreadnought could accomplish.

  49. Jimmie_Rox March 15, 2010 at 11:26 pm -      #149

    “The reaction on Belan ranged from gratitude to disbelief, while the turians, who were considering sending a dreadnought to destroy the asteroid, welcomed the news and said they will send a news probe to observe the comet’s historic passing.”

    They were intending to destroy the comet.

  50. Jimmie_Rox March 15, 2010 at 11:28 pm -      #150

    Just realise I should probably source my information.

    www.cerberusdailynews.com/?page_id=33

    All information from this site is officially release by BioWare and hence can be considered canon.

  51. Jimmie_Rox March 15, 2010 at 11:29 pm -      #151

    *realised

  52. cyborg pirate ninja jesus March 16, 2010 at 12:19 am -      #152

    just wondering, how does halo tech fare against weapons that can freak out space and time over a short distance…….coz i think the alliance has a weapon that can do that

  53. L-W March 16, 2010 at 12:19 am -      #153

    “They were intending to destroy the comet.”

    Which still tells us zilch, zip and zero.

  54. L-W March 16, 2010 at 1:16 am -      #154

    “So you mean to say that if a certain race have achieved space-faring technology then projectile based weaponry should be replaced with directed energy weaponry? If so, then I have been fooled by what James Cameron has showed in Aliens.”

    No necessarily, projectile weapons would still be incredibly effective in the future barring that our understanding of material sciences continues to advance, but there shouldn’t be a total disparity between vessels that can easily slug around a teraton of kinetic energy whilst issuing such weak firearms to their troops.

    As for Aliens, it was actually a fairly realistic depiction of space age military technology. The U.S.S. Sulaco isn’t that advanced compared to most softer science fiction vessels; in fact, according to the “Aliens: Colonial Marines Technical Manual”, she’s built more like a Colonial Battlestar than a Star Destroyer.

    She’s only 300 meters long, comes equipped with a Lithium-Hydride Fusion Reactor, has a maximum acceleration of only 1g and uses kinetic energy slugs and missiles in her armament. In turn this is reflected in the infantry, who are packing incredibly beefed up versions of modern firearms that use magnetic rails rather than conventional propellants (think of the M41A Pulse Rifle – a gorgeous rifle if I’ve ever seen one).

  55. Jimmie_Rox March 16, 2010 at 11:22 am -      #155

    ““They were intending to destroy the comet.”

    Which still tells us zilch, zip and zero.”

    Explain why you’re saying that? While I have burden of proof I have provided references with the key quotes highlighted.

    Now I hate having to explain this to you because I know that you are more than intelligent enough to be capable of interpreting the facts I provided with my analysis
    to help you. At the very least explain, referencing the data provided, why I am wrong.

    Now in the article they said “destroyt” that doesn’t mean “give it a bit of kinetic energy in that direction to change it’s trajectory,” it means “blast it into minute fragments that are small enough to burn up in the atmosphere if or when they undergo re-entry.”

    I am expecting a vicious rebuttal attacking my scientific knowledge, ability to interpret evidence and general intelligence. Please don’t hold back on my behalf, I’m already prepared for the hammering.

  56. Jimmie_Rox March 16, 2010 at 11:24 am -      #156

    And my sad lack of typing skills too.

  57. L-W March 16, 2010 at 7:47 pm -      #157

    1) “Explain why you’re saying that? While I have burden of proof I have provided references with the key quotes highlighted.”

    But you haven’t provided anything, merely a statement that a comet of unknown size (unquantifiable) of a quarter of the mass of the nearby moon (unquantifiable – a moon can be as small as a kilometer in diameter) was enough of a threat that single Dreadnought was commissioned to destroy it by unknown means (unquantifiable) over an unknown period of time (unquantifiable).

    Yeah, Jimmie_Rox, this is not evidence. Evidence should be objectively useful in determining scale, output, time frame, result and any other usefully quantifiable variable. This has none.

    2) “Now I hate having to explain this to you because I know that you are more than intelligent enough to be capable of interpreting the facts I provided with my analysis
    to help you. At the very least explain, referencing the data provided, why I am wrong.”

    See above, the information you provided is vague bullshit with no substance other than they sought local naval assistance from their largest class of vessel to protect their world (whether as a political, military or genuine safety issue is still not mentioned); it literally tells us nothing. Even if I was to analyze this statement based on the zero amount of information you’ve given me, I could come up with an answer of anywhere between 400kg of TNT to a whopping 400 gigatons (and every number in between); and still not be right.

    Or do you just want an answer that suits you best? Because if that’s the case, then I’m not interested in helping you.

    3) “Now in the article they said “destroyt” that doesn’t mean “give it a bit of kinetic energy in that direction to change it’s trajectory,” it means “blast it into minute fragments that are small enough to burn up in the atmosphere if or when they undergo re-entry.””

    No it doesn’t, in fact the article’s use of the word “destroy” is still incredibly vague as to how a single vessel intended to dispose of the Comet; was it though shock heating? Melt blasting? Did they merely intend to overcome the gravitational binding energy of the body or simply fragment it? Crater it? Melt it? Vaporize it? Drill it then blow it up from the center? How do we know that they didn’t intend to knock it off it’s trajectory and into a stellar body where it would more than certainly be destroyed?

    How much of the ship’s armaments were they going to use? All of them, or just one gun? Over what time frame? Why a Dreadnought? What contingencies do they have in place to ward of stellar bodies?

    The problem is, you’ve taken a single vague sentiment and have already formed an opinion of what it should mean, not what it does mean. Like I said, I have no qualms analyzing any actual evidence you present me (if and when you do), but I have no interest in shaping the numbers to suit your “feelings” or “opinions” on the matter.

    But hey, let’s just assume a certain size, and a certain distance, and a certain type of object, with no objective data to work with. I’m sure that will work out reasonably well.

  58. Jimmie_Rox March 16, 2010 at 8:44 pm -      #158

    It is at the very least a large enough body that it’s passing caused tsunamis more than fifteen metres high that ravaged the coastlines. Chunks of ice that broke off the comet and entered the atmosphere caused impact craters of up to 180 m in diameter. So yes, a substantial sized body at any rate. Being 1.30 am I really can’t be bothered to do the maths but it’s obviously not tiny mass, I’d guess it would have to be at the very least a similar size to Halley’s Comet, almost certainly several orders of magnitude larger.

    I have provided all the information there is on this topic, unfortunately there are very few quantifiable numbers.

  59. L-W March 16, 2010 at 9:25 pm -      #159

    1) “It is at the very least a large enough body that it’s passing caused tsunamis more than fifteen metres high that ravaged the coastlines.”

    And? A sufficiently large passing body caused tidal disruptions on a world of unknown size, it’s still as vague and unquantified as every other non-existent variable you’ve presented so far.

    2) “Chunks of ice that broke off the comet and entered the atmosphere caused impact craters of up to 180 m in diameter.”

    Craters that could be caused by two ton fragments entering the atmosphere, which could range from ten to twenty meters in diameter.

    Interesting, but alas it remains a non-factor.

    3) “So yes, a substantial sized body at any rate. Being 1.30 am I really can’t be bothered to do the maths but it’s obviously not tiny mass, I’d guess it would have to be at the very least a similar size to Halley’s Comet, almost certainly several orders of magnitude larger.”

    And yet you still fail to realize, even after repeated warnings, that whatever you come up with will be just as nonsensical as any number I pull from my ass for no reason; it follows no logical reason or discourse and to be quite frank, you are letting your own wishes become the Farther of your thoughts.

    Are you genuinely too slow to realize this? Whatever data you arbitrarily come up with would be meaningless (especially in lieu of the fact that you don’t even have a low end to work from) to any form of analytical pursuit, it will be nothing but a product of your very own Wank-Pile; Beli acted like an idiot, but do you really want to be known as the intellectually dishonest one?

    4) “I have provided all the information there is on this topic, unfortunately there are very few quantifiable numbers.”

    Very few? There are NONE.

    And as the person you asked to analyze this information, it is absolutely irrelevant and worthless for obtaining the results you wanted; riddled with so many non-factors, non-existent variables or any hard evidence of anything that the best I could tell you is that “it happened” and that would be the extent of results. You may as well point to any speck of the sky, with no parameters other than the infinite space occupied by the vector of your forefinger and ask me to gauge the temperature.

    Pursue another line of evidence to meet your demands or simply don’t bother, because this beaten horse is useless to you.

    George F. Will, the back page columnist for Newsweek magazine, once said:

    “Intellectual rigor annoys people because it interferes with the pleasure they derive from allowing their wishes to be the fathers of their thoughts.”

    He certainly has a way with words. I don’t understand people who resent a methodical approach. Look, it may just be science fiction, but as long as we’re going through the motions of pretending that it’s real, then we might as well do it right. Right? So if you’re going to accuse me of intellectual laziness (an accusation that I take seriously) you best have one HELL of a case to back you up.

  60. Jimmie_Rox March 16, 2010 at 11:03 pm -      #160

    Unfortunately we are dealing with fictional universes, just like the video you used as evidence that mere frigates are capable of megaton blasts. So please don’t be hypocritical, you’re calculations are based upon estimations as much as mine. For example from the video you used ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD4Bi5-VtnY ) I estimate the yield as being only about 540 kilotons. (Size data for artefact obtained by scaling against covenant CSS class battlecruiser, size of blast obtained by scaling against height of object in the centre. Blast energy calculated using Taylor’s magnitude estimation formula, worth noting that blast could be considered to be a combination of four impacts. ie a ton of guess work and approximations)

    Where exactly did I accuse you of intellectual laziness? Can you point out to me were I said that?

    Right, now to start with, my original statement was:

    “Can I just point out that Turian dreadnoughts are powerful enough to intercept and destroy comets, so although there are no numbers for their destructive power it can be assumed that their power is greater than that of a human dreadnought.”

    I then provided references to back this up, non-quantifiable values too be sure, but still valid canon. I have only give values when pushed, all of which I have said were a guess, or an interpretation. Without hard data this is all the numerical analysis you can do. So in response to you’re accusation of intellectual dishonesty, no, there wasn’t any. There was no falsifications, guess work in abundance, but no actual falsifications, which being as how there is very little quantifiable data available for Mass Effect weapon systems…

    However, if we assume that the main canon of a dreadnought can fire, say, a 1000 kg mass with the same values of acceleration as the 20 kg mass (due to the mass effect this is certainly possible) then we have a value of 1.912 megatons per impact. Due to the nature of the mass effect even heavier slugs could be used, delivering even greater destructive power. The limiting factor in the size of the slug fired is that the recoil from said projectile is equal to the impact blast, which although is mitigated slightly by mass effect fields is still major enough to play the role of limiting factor.

  61. Jimmie_Rox March 16, 2010 at 11:05 pm -      #161

    Damn, there’s a ton of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors in that =[

  62. L-W March 17, 2010 at 1:01 am -      #162

    1) “Unfortunately we are dealing with fictional universes, just like the video you used as evidence that mere frigates are capable of megaton blasts. So please don’t be hypocritical”

    Excuse me whilst I stifle my laughter.

    My analysis, whilst basic, is of course supported by not only other canon sources (which go as far as 0.4c velocities as a higher end) which give concise figures on the available mass and behavior of MAC rounds, but the blast was scaled by actual available visual evidence (you know, NOT stuff I made up from thin air) that I could corroborate on using multiple resources and the work of individuals with an understanding of each of their respective field.

    Somehow you are really struggling to comprehend the difference here between a tangible and obvious link that rather concisely connects the evidence, and that of something that is vague and unquantifiable for which we can make up any old number for.

    As a reductio ad absurdum style argument I could just as easily yell four for every unquantified variable presented in the article, and no one without the qualifying information to say otherwise could disprove my gesticulation.

    Four!

    2) “I estimate the yield as being only about 540 kilotons. (Size data for artefact obtained by scaling against covenant CSS class battlecruiser, size of blast obtained by scaling against height of object in the centre.”

    I would like to see your work on that.

    My scaling is based on Stephen Loftus’s work on Halo.Bungie.Org, who created a program to illustrate a comprehensive series of scalable diagrams comparing Halo vessels through the use of in game code and by exploring the in-game cinematic sequences.

    He explains it here:

    nikon.bungie.org/misc/sloftus_scalecomparison/index.html

    Based on his scaling from the CG sequences from Halo 2, his estimation is that the Forerunner Dreadnought is at a height of approximately 14km; of course if you have any qualms about this then you are more than welcome to contact Stephen himself to compare notes at:

    Based on this image:

    images3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/8/8d/Storm3.jpg

    We can tell that the blast, as it is still expanding by the way, has consumed nearly half the Forerunner structure. Now based on the scaling laws printed in Carey Sublette’s well-known Nuclear Weapons FAQ (I tried looking for “Taylor’s magnitude estimation formula”, but apparently it does not exist), we can determine that the fireball radius of a megaton nuclear detonation is approximately one kilometer in diameter, therefore four evenly scaled megaton level detonations (whilst not possessing a cumulative rate of expansion) would only consume a diameter of only four and a bit kilometers. My megaton estimation is actually and estimation, and since this is an atmospheric shot, drag is going to have a severe cumulative effect on how much KE is generated by the impact. In space combat, the figure will rise dramatically.

    But as I said to Beli, nuclear detonations are nothing like that of conventional explosives or kinetic energy impacts, which generate detonations not through fissile material but by stress heating (or shocking) the material until it becomes super-heated plasma.

    3) “ton of guess work and approximations”

    The above is only based on estimations, but in my case, the evidence for said estimations is present. Whilst it’s quick and dirty, the proof is indeed there as a solid visual medium to form fairly accurate representation of what Frigate firepower is. No sophistry is required, to extraneous variables, no erroneous computations on powers that seemingly do not exist and no variables that could go from zero to a googelplex in under a second; instead we have instant and gratifying facts.

    Parsimony is working in my favour here.

    4) “Where exactly did I accuse you of intellectual laziness? Can you point out to me were I said that?”

    Perhaps it was hyperbolic, but I don’t respond to condescension, especially when I am more than justified in my stance than you are in yours.

    5) “I then provided references to back this up, non-quantifiable values too be sure, but still valid canon.”

    But the canon is not admissible for getting any concrete numbers, how are you not getting this very, very simply concept? Yes, we can confirm the fact that a Dreadnought was indeed dispatched (or requested to be dispatched) by the local government, to intercept a comet of unknown size, using methods that remain unknown, with contingencies that we have no idea exist to complete the task over an unspecified time frame.

    As I said before, it really doesn’t tell us zip, zilch and zero. You could form a thousand postulations on every conceivable variable and the resultant outcome, and you or I would be no closer to the truth than we are further from it. So when I say, pursue a more reasonable line of investigation to confirm firepower, I mean look to a source that doesn’t have the consistency of quicksand. .

    After all you did have the audacity of claiming that I should have been able to analyze the information presented, despite the fact that it was completely absent of any objective evidence; and the fact that you continue to harp on about a repeatedly debunked and non-existent attempt at an analysis is slightly distressing when it is obvious that no conclusion worth a damn could be drawn from the information present.

    6) “However, if we assume that the main canon of a dreadnought can fire, say, a 1000 kg mass with the same values of acceleration as the 20 kg mass (due to the mass effect this is certainly possible) then we have a value of 1.912 megatons per impact.”

    Of course this is the most logical in-universe evolution of the weapon, however the Codex is pretty strict on what a Dreadnought can and has accomplished thus far; they either refrain from loading heavier slugs by some strict choice, or there is a present technical limiting factor.

    After all we cannot assume a limitless tolerance on these vessels, as the same application of force could more than likely result in the collapse of their structural supports, or cause their already timid capacitors to go into overdrive.

  63. L-W March 17, 2010 at 5:52 am -      #163

    However, I should have noted earlier that the above postulation regarding nuclear blast scale was based on the premise that it was a MAC scatter shot primed to strike varying points along the structural axis; this of course contrary to the buoyant behavior of the fireball.

    However, if the Frigates accurately fired their ordinance within a relatively close proximity of one another to maximize the stress imparted upon a smaller area (according to Ghosts of Onyx, they were firing at point blank range), then all blast effects within close proximity follow non-linear scaling laws; therefore the volume and area of a sphere grow at the cube and square of its radius, respectively.

  64. SinZero March 17, 2010 at 9:01 am -      #164

    There’s something that I had never hoped to see: Halo actually winning something. This must be an epic thread in the making. Can’t shake off the feeling that this was an intended rape thread gone wrong, though..

  65. orpheus12 March 17, 2010 at 10:24 am -      #165

    So…can I nominate halo for the BankGambling award ?

  66. Jimmie_Rox March 17, 2010 at 12:19 pm -      #166

    “So…can I nominate halo for the BankGambling award ?”

    No, I haven’t had this much fun in ages. Also there’s other points that need considering first.

    Firstly, I was being hypothetical when I scaled up the projectile. Due to the fact that the ships probably weren’t designed with those kinda acceleration forces I’d doubt that the internal structure could stand up to it. However, we can’t say for certain whether or not such accelerations are within their design limits. I’d say it’s more likely the 20kg slugs are chosen for a combination of accuracy, ease of coping with recoil and ammunition storage.

    The problem with using this image images3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/8/8d/Storm3.jpg is that there is inconsistencies of scale.

  67. Darkbladex96 March 17, 2010 at 12:28 pm -      #167

    yea u can nominate halo because air superiority>everything else.
    it doesnt matter how well ME forces do on ground combat when Halo can just be like “we’re losing here, glass the planet”.

    so halo for the FP award.

    “There’s something that I had never hoped to see: Halo actually winning something. This must be an epic thread in the making. Can’t shake off the feeling that this was an intended rape thread gone wrong, though..”

    its not that halo cant win its just that MC is over hyped. halo is a decently powerful universe. when whoever posted this they were obviously thinking about ground war which if they had specified that scenerio ME probably wouldve won.

  68. Jimmie_Rox March 17, 2010 at 12:34 pm -      #168

    The formula I used was R=c((E*t^2)/ρ)^1/5 with a value for c of 0.99.

  69. Jimmie_Rox March 17, 2010 at 12:39 pm -      #169

    We still haven’t addressed the issue of the reapers, unlike the forerunners they are there www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVwcXvgshUQ

  70. L-W March 17, 2010 at 9:37 pm -      #170

    1) “However, we can’t say for certain whether or not such accelerations are within their design limits. I’d say it’s more likely the 20kg slugs are chosen for a combination of accuracy, ease of coping with recoil and ammunition storage.”

    Neither can we state that the added tonnage will simply not cause the inertial dampener fields (or whatever form of stasis they use to maintain internal integrity) to simply collapse under the strain, much like a midget giving birth to a bowling ball.

    It’s an interesting non-sequitur, but irrelevant to the overall debate.

    2) “The problem with using this image is that there is inconsistencies of scale.”

    A basic home cooked scaling diagram I created on photoshop based on canon Covenant vessel lengths:

    i139.photobucket.com/albums/q311/Lew88/Storm3.jpg

    And before anyone asks, yes, I did take into account focal length and the possible displacement between the Dreadnought and the CCS Cruiser; however I felt this was merely negligible by a few degrees since the 5.3 kilometer Assault Carrier in the foreground was a sufficient anchor for determining scale that I was in fact low balling the estimate anyway.

    The difference here however is that the evidence I provided is a notable example of cause and effect:

    A) Four UNSC Frigates appear in shot, they then fire their forward weapons, which appear to be neither Archer missiles or 50mm PD cannons; therefore we can indeed confirm that these are MAC rounds.

    B) MAC rounds impact structure at around 0.5 to 0.15 seconds later.

    C) Structure survives. However from the scale of the detonation measured at sea level and the surrounding vessels (scale quantified) we can form a fairly accurate to within an order of magnitude estimation of how much energy was released by each MAC round.

    Cause and effect. Plus we have every other variable to help fill us in, including motive, time frame, method and outcome, which is handily and readily available for viewing on a public source for all to see of all places. How you could accuse me of hypocrisy on this very point is not only slightly insulting, but extremely baffling to the nth degree, since each of our individual approaches to our presented information (and the evidence by itself) are completely dissimilar to on another and utterly incomparable.

    3) “The formula I used was R=c((E*t^2)/ρ)^1/5 with a value for c of 0.99.”

    All you need to know is: r_thermal = Y^0.41

    Although I’m curious as to why you measured radial propagation at 0.99 c when the explosive velocity rate ranges from 3,000 to 9,000 meters per second for a nuclear and non-nuclear reactions, 0.00001c and 0.00003c respectively.

  71. L-W March 18, 2010 at 4:11 am -      #171

    As an addendum to my previous post, here is the same scaled image but inverted as to optimize the appearance of the brightest bursts of the detonation; selectively identifying three separate impact sites:

    i139.photobucket.com/albums/q311/Lew88/Storm12.jpg

  72. cyborg pirate ninja jesus March 18, 2010 at 4:34 am -      #172

    what about the fighters that each military carry are mass effect beaten in that aspect as well?

    and also how fast can the mac rounds be fired, and how big are the rounds

  73. Jimmie_Rox March 18, 2010 at 3:48 pm -      #173

    c is merely a constant, it’s a case of the same symbol having multiple uses as we so often see in science. Taylor’s formula was created independently from the actual weapons testing and design team and produced a estimation for yield which was within 10% of the official value, which incidentally was still classified at the time.

    Also, is not more accurate to take a value for radius of the fireball in the horizontal?

  74. L-W March 18, 2010 at 8:11 pm -      #174

    1) “c is merely a constant”

    Whatever you have to do to get an (albeit) incorrect answer is fine by me, I guess. However, as long as you concede you were off by an order of magnitude with your own scaling and with the accusation of hypocrisy on my part then I would also be more than fine with that.

    2) “Also, is not more accurate to take a value for radius of the fireball in the horizontal?”

    Irrelevant stalling for two reasons:

    A) Buoyancy. You probably know that hot air has a tendency to rise in an environment where the surrounding air is colder, yes? So if you fill up a balloon with hot air it will start to rise, and that’s basically what buoyancy is. How does this relate to fireballs? Well, nuclear fireballs become hot and begin to expand really quickly, with a temperature of around 10,000,000 degrees at the epicenter, which means that they’re also going to rise. In the case of the MAC impacts we also see the fireball rise after several seconds of expansion, indicating that a large portion of the slugs did indeed shock heat.

    B) I could measure the same image on a horizontal (or diagonal) scale and still come up with an answer within the same magnitude as the last, which trumps your 500kt estimate by an order of 91%:

    i139.photobucket.com/albums/q311/Lew88/Storm53.jpg

    Vertical estimations are easier to use however since the blobby corona of the detonation don’t quite coalesce to the point that they become too difficult to differentiate. Then again we could also vastly scale the detonation up against the Halo 2 estimation, or this image:

    images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080412110147/halo/images/6/6c/Storm1.jpg

    Accept that Bungie or 343 fudged up the size of the Covenant Cruiser (which is not the first time it happened):

    images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090818040820/halo/images/6/61/ApexBattleImage.png

    Or use this (less) canon image of the Dreadnought from Halo Uprising:

    images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080511002310/halo/images/2/26/The_Forerunner_Dreadnaught.PNG

    Either way, the numbers can only go higher and higher from here on; which still place a 400 metre long Frigate, the lightest capital ship in the UNSC, at a ton for ton superiority against conventional Dreadnoughts.

    Against a Covenant vessel? Forget it. It’ll turn into a turkey shoot/meat grinder before they could even consider maneuvering to engage a single Covenant warship at long range.

  75. orpheus12 March 18, 2010 at 8:17 pm -      #175

    @ L-W
    “Accept that Bungie or 343 fudged up the size of the Covenant Cruiser (which is not the first time it happened):

    images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090818040820/halo/images/6/61/ApexBattleImage.png“”

    That;s actually a covenant destroyer. (if thats what you were labeling as the covenant cruiser.
    halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_Cruiser
    halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_Destroyer

  76. L-W March 18, 2010 at 8:45 pm -      #176

    I’m more than aware of that, I was just using it as an example to illustrate how Covenant vessels frequently change size in the Halo canon; in the case of the Destroyer it went from a mere 300 metres, to 1500 metres for a heavy Destroyer, to 2500 metres in Halo Wars.

    Now do you have something RELEVANT to add to the thread?

  77. Jimmie_Rox March 18, 2010 at 8:45 pm -      #177

    Sorry, but is the fact that hot air rises not the reason why it’s more accurate to take a horizontal measurement, being as the fact that due to drag the fireball would be distorted as it rose leading to vertical elongation?

  78. L-W March 18, 2010 at 9:05 pm -      #178

    1) “Sorry, but is the fact that hot air rises not the reason why it’s more accurate to take a horizontal measurement”

    Due to the fact that until the 28th (when I return to an ADSL+ level bandwidth) I won’t be able to grab frame by frame grabs of the explosion in question, instead I will have to use this still image as a basis to measure the deformity and radial expansion of an asymmetrical fireball.

    But based on the fact that this occurs within the first “birthing” stages of the detonation, I can quite accurately surmise that whether I measure vertically or horizontally is utterly irrelevant since both figures render the same high kiloton, megaton plus figures for the fireball corona.

    Refuting your claims of hypocrisy (and as an extension, intellectual sophistry) but fiat of simply existing.

  79. Jimmie_Rox March 18, 2010 at 10:12 pm -      #179

    Right, just to get it out the way I apologise for suggesting you may have been guilty of hypocrisy. Also, as much as it pains me to admit it, I seem to have made a calculation error. I checked my calculations the same formula I used before and I actually come up with an estimated yield of 4.224 megatonnes (plus or minus 10%). To that end I feel I had better apologise for my incompetency.

    I also think it’s wrong to ignore the effect of fluid dynamics that would lead to fireball deformation being as how they would apply from the birth of said fireball. Probably the best method would be an average of the horizontal and the vertical dimensions. However I’ll accept that for these estimations either measurement is accurate enough due to the time-scale.

  80. L-W March 19, 2010 at 1:13 am -      #180

    “I also think it’s wrong to ignore the effect of fluid dynamics that would lead to fireball deformation being as how they would apply from the birth of said fireball.”

    Once my internet returns to its full glory, I’ll put together a 100 stage frame by frame inverse pixel analysis of the detonation correlating the movement of each “white spot” following the first visible impact. As it stand though, I’ll only really need to calculate the dimensions of the fireball in the first second, since any expansion after that point will merely be a result of the energy invisibly bleeding off into the atmosphere (which is why nukes are only persistently bright for a fraction of a second).

    However, in my opinion, the difference between the initial volume and the final volume will be so negligible that it will contribute a few hundred kilotons of energy at most, to the final figure negligible when you already have megaton plus detonations anyway.

  81. Jimmie_Rox March 19, 2010 at 6:47 am -      #181

    Okay, well as it stands the Citadel races are no match for Halo space forces which means that while the ground troops in the ME universe are more effective and hence would be victorious in a ground war any victories achieved would be null and void since the Halo forces would be able to just glass the planet.

    However, there are still the reapers, the migrant fleet and the terminus systems to be taken into account. I personally think the reapers may even be able to give the ME universe the edge.

  82. L-W March 19, 2010 at 6:54 am -      #182

    “However, there are still the reapers, the migrant fleet and the terminus systems to be taken into account. I personally think the reapers may even be able to give the ME universe the edge.”

    Certainly, after all it did take a relativistic round that gouged a continent sized canyon through the surface of a planet to lobotomize the Sovereign; lest to say this is incredibly impressive.

    Although if we continue on with the “higher” races then I must gracefully bow out from the debate for the same reason I don’t discuss the Forerunners, the Precursors or the Great Old Ones.

  83. Jimmie_Rox March 19, 2010 at 11:45 am -      #183

    Unfortunately the Reapers do have to be taken into account, since the ending of ME2 was this www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVwcXvgshUQ

  84. L-W March 19, 2010 at 11:34 pm -      #184

    You wildly misinterpreted me, I never once said that Reapers were not to be taken into account (indeed I’ve played Mass Effect 2 and achieved both the Paragon and Renegade endings); merely that I would discount myself from the discussion before the flaming volleys of conjecture began to be thrown with abandon.

    In fact I’ve made my intent rather clear at the very top of this forum, conventional and usable forces only.

  85. Prime Chaos March 19, 2010 at 11:39 pm -      #185

    So about the Reapers. Considering that the UNSC can pretty much face off against most of the Citadel Races and the Covvies can take care of the rest…how would they fare against the Reapers?

  86. OriginalA March 20, 2010 at 1:25 am -      #186

    “…the flaming volleys of conjecture began to be thrown with abandon.”

    Is it bad that I enjoy this part of these debates?

  87. CRACKSHOT99 March 30, 2010 at 3:53 pm -      #187

    A Great abd hard match, but siding with Halo. True Mass Effect will be a hard force to fight but Halo could pull this off.

    Firstly, one of the great Setiniel Task Force’s, The Oynx Setiniels, can take out a Covenant Ship on a mere seconds by combining in around 45 Oynx Setiniels together. I dont know how much better or worse a Mass Effect Cruisers shields are but I predict a combined force of Setiniels could take it out quickly in large groups. They are also hard to outnumber as every Six seconds a new Setiniel is created from one of the Setiniel Machines. The Setiniels shields, weponary and inner core are updated every engagement with opposing forces as firstly a rock or another slow moving object could hit the body work and at the end of Ghosts of Oynx the Spartan-III’s find it hard to penetrate their golden shields. The Oynx Setiniel also has a deadly Beam which can burn through a Covenant Cruisers shields and armour which when combined is devestating to Inter – Planetary Ships quickly.

  88. alfieboi13 March 30, 2010 at 4:12 pm -      #188

    after reserching a bit more about halo, i now believe that this would still be a mass effect win but halo would put up a good fight.

    I beleive this because near the end of mass effect 1, 1 reaper nearly takes down the entire citidel so if this is te whole univerese, there will be much more which will cause halo to lose amny, many troops.

  89. CRACKSHOT99 March 31, 2010 at 11:37 am -      #189

    alfieboi13@

    “I beleive this because near the end of mass effect 1, 1 reaper nearly takes down the entire citidel so if this is te whole univerese, there will be much more which will cause halo to lose amny, many troops.”

    As not knowing much facts of Reapers I have not played any of the games but I know they are a powerfull race in Mass Effect with advanced weponary etc.

    I dont know how powerfull the shields are towards Covenant or Human tech but I would guess they could be defeated without a huge loss of life.

  90. alfieboi13 April 3, 2010 at 4:46 pm -      #190

    i wonder how halo would stand agaginst 100 fully trained n7 soldiers with M-920 cain’s?

  91. CRACKSHOT99 April 5, 2010 at 4:04 pm -      #191

    alfieboi13@

    “i wonder how halo would stand agaginst 100 fully trained n7 soldiers with M-920 cain’s?”

    I wonder how Mass Effect would do against combined Oynx Setiniels?

  92. alfieboi13 April 6, 2010 at 4:39 am -      #192

    @CRACKSHOT99

    toshay

  93. cyborg pirate ninja jesus April 6, 2010 at 5:31 am -      #193

    mass effect rape essentially any of halo’s ground forces due to massive firepower, but in space battle they arent that good

  94. alfieboi13 April 6, 2010 at 6:01 am -      #194

    that is true but would most fights be in space or on ground?

  95. Siggymansz April 6, 2010 at 6:03 am -      #195

    i believe its spelling is touche

    (could be wrong tho)

  96. Siggymansz April 6, 2010 at 6:04 am -      #196

    i think its safe to say that once halo sees that ME rapes them on the ground most battles will be in space

  97. alfieboi13 April 6, 2010 at 6:09 am -      #197

    yes but when ME have dominated the groung, halo probably won’t have many trops left for the space battle

  98. alfieboi13 April 6, 2010 at 6:10 am -      #198

    @siggymanz

    tochay or touche?
    im not sure either

  99. cyborg pirate ninja jesus April 6, 2010 at 6:25 am -      #199

    its touche…except with a little accent mark thing over the e

    while mass effect would lose pretty badly in space fight they would still be able to cause some damage to their fleets. i also dont know anything about me’s planetary defences.

    however i dont see why me cant board the covenant and unsc vessels that land on the planets, sort of like mc did in…halo 1 i think

    however i also dont know much about the scientific capabilities in me and whether or not they would be able to effectively reverse engineer the weaponry, so ill just assume that they cant.

    so i see this as me pretty much destroy any invading ground force then the halo team get pissed off and blow the crap out of them from space

  100. alfieboi13 April 6, 2010 at 6:28 am -      #200

    actually mass effect do have an extremely good air force called the reapers. they would cause a lot of damage to halo as there are over 200 of them

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