Altaïr Ibn La-Ahad Vs Artemis Entreri vs Lucien Lachance vs Waylander the Slayer

Altair Ibn La-Ahad Vs Artemis Entreri Vs Lucien Lachance Vs Waylander the Slayer

Here’s an excellent idea suggested by TL.

Altaïr Ibn La-Ahad (Assassin’s Creed), Artemis Entreri (Forgotten Realms), Lucien Lachance (The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion) and Waylander the Slayer (David Gemmell’s Waylander) –

Instead of these elite assassins facing each other, instead they each have the same target: Gandalf the Grey.

In order to make it fair, we’ll place all the assassins into the Lord of the Rings realm. They are allowed to fight each other if they want to – but the goal is to finish assignment.

Who would win, and would they be the only assassin left standing?

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192 Comments on "Altaïr Ibn La-Ahad Vs Artemis Entreri vs Lucien Lachance vs Waylander the Slayer"

  1. Matapiojo January 14, 2009 at 8:05 am -      #1

    Excelent setting. I doubt many would know much about the characters presented, but they are all interesting to say the least. I for one will throw my support to Artemis Entreri.

    I dont know much about the other contestants, and at this point I will not declare my pick as the winner, but I will state something that will put a clear advantage for Entreri over his mark.

    Artemis Entreri has a magical gauntlet that not only detects, and absobs magic into itself, but it is also able to redirect the magic energies to wherever the wielder sees fit.

    This is a MAJOR advantage over the powerful wizard. Everything at Gandalf’s arsenal can and will be used against him, and the ancient man does not have the martial skill needed to combat one of the top (if not THE top) assassins in Faerun.

    Unless the other killers have a similar means to deal with the mark, I think this would be a clear victory for Entreri.

    To mention a few other points about Entreri. Like I already stated, he is one of the top combatants in the entire repertoire of Forgotten Realms. This is not his only advantage, however. Like most fantasy stories, this powerful individual has a good arsenal of skills, and perhaps more importantly, magical items.

    Other than the gauntlet, the two items that stand above the rest by far are his weapons of choice. First, he has a trademark dagger that is recognized all across Faerun, a Jaded vampiric blade. This weapon is capable of absorbing the life-force of any victim with nothing but a nick to the skin. What is worst, the absorbed energy can be imparted to Entreri, healing any wounds the assassin might have suffered. He can even heal magically inflicted ailments.

    Poison? Cured.

    Aging? Cured.

    Curses? Cured.

    A trully amazing item.

    Then we have the sentient evil sabre, Charon’s Claw. This item is capable of cutting through most every surface with unnatural sharpness. It can also cause wound it inflicted to unnaturally fester, causing certain death many days after any encounter with the assassin. Another trully horrifying weapon in the hands of one of the deadliest beings I have ever seen across multiple stories.

    There is one other item worthy of note in his repertoire. Entreri is a master of traps. He is able to arm and disarm many means of death in a few moments, but almost as if it was a cosmic joke to see such an item in his possession, Entreri has a statue of a Dragon that could possibly be the deadliest item in his arsenal. This statue can project the breath weapon of any dragon he chooses to arm the trap with. Farun having numerous wurms roaming about, the magical blasts can be numerous. In the hands of this able trapper, you will NEVER see this massive catastrophe coming…ever.

    Should the other assassins attempt to come after Artemis (should they discover how the gauntlet will make it extremely easy to dispose of their mark), they are quite possibly future victims of a full blown magical explossion courtesy of the Dragon statue.

    Like I said previously, I’m fairly ignorant of the capabilities for the other contestants. In my oppinion, Artemis Entreri looks pretty solid to be the victor in this match.

  2. TL January 14, 2009 at 11:42 am -      #2

    Whoa, I didn’t expect this to be posted so fast! Thanks admin ^^

    I also wasn’t expecting such a hot target as Gandalf the Grey, whom I know nothing about, other than him being a powerful wizard.

    Anyway, since the target is a wizard, Altaïr is gonna have some big trouble because he has no experience at all in the magic department, unless the Piece of Eden counts as one, which he currently possesses and can control the minds of the mass population with it. But I’m not gonna say much for Altaïr, since he’s a pretty popular character right now, and many people probably know about him.

    Here’s some info on Lucien Lachance:

    www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Lucien_Lachance

    He is one of five Speakers for the Dark Brotherhood, one of the most feared organizations in all of Cyrodiil and beyond in the world of Elder Scrolls.

    Devoid of conscience, possessing a frightening exterior, and always wearing a black coat to amplify his mysterious aura, his mere presence can instill fear even in the hardened veterans of Tamriel.

    Possessing the ability to render himself invisible magically, as well as his undying loyalty to the Dark Brotherhood, this man is a huge threat to Gandalf, who should watch his back constantly should he learned that the Dark Brotherhood has determined that Sithis demands the old wizard’s life.

    I’m not sure what combat skills or equipment Lucien possesses, because he has never been seen in combat by the player, although he does give some powerful weapons to the player to use, such as the Rose of Sithis, an arrow that will kill the target instantly if it touches the target’s armorless body.

    As for Waylander the Slayer, it was =[BF]=JimmieRox who gave me the idea, so we need him to educate us on the capabilities of Waylander.

  3. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 14, 2009 at 5:09 pm -      #3

    Waylander has a dual crossbow, extreme stealth, fights with two short swords, carries throwing knifes and can use them as well as he uses any weapon, with an amazing level of skill. However, that dual crossbow is his main weapon and it itself is held as being one of the coolest ranged weapons in the genre.

    Unfortunatly I havent managed to come up with a good link for his abilities yet but this may give an idea of his capabilities:

    en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Waylander_the_Slayer&redirect=no

  4. fooby January 14, 2009 at 6:05 pm -      #4

    wow, what a hunt

  5. fooby January 14, 2009 at 6:05 pm -      #5

    or they would get to gandalf and get pwnds all of them

  6. LaSt s0n 0f KrYpToN January 14, 2009 at 11:36 pm -      #6

    awesome fight the only ones i dont really know about are waylander and gandalf i have to give this one to Artemis. this is a man who survived the under dark stands toe to toe with drow and even out thinks them. Artemis all the way @ matapiajo great post made me remember stuff i had forgotten

  7. Space marine January 15, 2009 at 3:57 am -      #7

    I’ll Say Altair, The reason being, Is that He Has done nothing To provoke anyone, He Is NOT Going to charge in there for no danm reason, He doesn’t Get in other people’s Way, So they would have no reason to Attack Altair.

    Knowing Altair He would not seem Threatening to any Of the other assasins.

    Altairs True power is in his Stealth, So If he Can Kill 1/30th Of an army and a leader, He could do this With relative ease.

    Although, Artemis Could cause problems.

  8. Matapiojo January 15, 2009 at 10:02 am -      #8

    “I don’t have info. to Artemis & Waylander…so if anyone has knowledge on this guys…well just ring the bell”

    Thats humorous seeing as those bells have been rung on the very first post (and another down the line). Need to know anything else than what I said?

  9. TL January 15, 2009 at 12:13 pm -      #9

    Ok, we’re not just going to assume that every one of them is just gonna charge in and assault Gandalf directly. That would be something akin to suicide, although they could probably pull it off and survive…

    Remember, these assassins are at the top of their profession.

    Altaïr Ibn La-Ahad:

    The master assassin of the Hashshashin sect, who conducts assassinations in public and either fights his way out or escapes without a trace.

    Artemis Entreri:

    The most feared assassin in a city of assassins, his reputation has spread even further throughout the whole of Faerun. Credited as being one of the best assassin (if not the best), no one could hold a candle to him. The last one who tried was some dude named Dog Perry who died a horrifying death when trying to claim the title of the King of Assassins.

    Lucien Lachance:

    The Speaker for the enigmatic and notorious Dark Brotherhood. He possesses the ability to turn himself invisible magically and has a tendency to appear out of nowhere. One of the most loyal and powerful assassins in the Dark Brotherhood.

    Waylander:

    Erm… To be honest, I don’t know much about his feats, since I didn’t read any books about him.

    —-

    I hope this helps, although these descriptions show but an inkling of their true skills.

  10. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 15, 2009 at 2:30 pm -      #10

    The thing is, magic isn’t going to help in this fight. Oh, Admin, Gandalf the Grey or Gandalf the White? Just it makes a big difference. Gandalf the Grey would be very hard to kill but Gandalf the White would be nigh on impossible. Balrog or Enteri? I got to say I think the Balrog has the edge here.

    So yeah, I’m going to say Artemis Entreri or Waylander but in terms of this mission I think Entreri has the edge although it should be pointed out that the Dragon statue is probably usless in this case with Gandalf being able to shield himself from most magical attacks. However, Entreri would need to engage in a close quater battle with Gandalf who is stronger, possibly faster though it is an unknown, at least as skillful, has many years more experience and has a greater effective combat range as he wields a staff and a two-handed elven blade crafted for the King of Gondolin.

    So with that I have to say a suprise attack by Waylander firing two bolts into the back of Gandalfs head from range seems to bring into question who would win. Waylander’s dual crossbow gives him a considerable advantage over the other assasins.

  11. admin January 15, 2009 at 2:46 pm -      #11

    @=[BF]=JimmieRox – The target is Gandalf the Grey.

  12. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 15, 2009 at 3:39 pm -      #12

    kwl, thanks for clearing that up although it really only has an effect on his magical abilities so he’s still lethal in staff range

  13. Matapiojo January 15, 2009 at 4:34 pm -      #13

    “So yeah, I’m going to say Artemis Entreri or Waylander but in terms of this mission I think Entreri has the edge although it should be pointed out that the Dragon statue is probably usless in this case with Gandalf being able to shield himself from most magical attacks. However, Entreri would need to engage in a close quater battle with Gandalf who is stronger, possibly faster though it is an unknown, at least as skillful, has many years more experience and has a greater effective combat range as he wields a staff and a two-handed elven blade crafted for the King of Gondolin.”

    Whilst I am well aware of Gandalf’s martial skills, I also know that they pale in comparison to Artemis Entreri’s.

    This man grew up un a city FULL of competing assassins at the service of powerful Pashas. Here, he placed himself at the absolute top of the food chain for many years after his coming of age. Whenever Pasha Pook decided to send Artemis for a kill, the results were absolute catastrophe for the intended targets.

    Then he got tangled in the web of deceit and treachery that is the Drow of Faerun. He found himself trapped in a city full of beings that overshadowed his own malice and quite possibly skill. Artemis prove that to not be the case as he survived wave after wave of hand-to-hand combat with every single Dark Elf assassin that dared match blades with him.

    After yet another turn of events, Artemis found himself on the road and came face to face with an entire guild full of powerful individuals that had murder as their main goal. The Citadel of Assassins employs MANY powerful beings, not limited to masters of the blade. The top positions in this organization are occupied by powerful arch-wizards, not much different than Gandalf.

    Yet, Artemis managed to out maneuver and eliminate any opposition that was sent to eliminate this foreign killer. Mind you, that he surpassed these powerful casters without his Black Gauntlet. Now that this item is back in his possession, beings such as Gandalf are but child’s play to his lethal blade.

    All that is IF he decides to openly confront the wizard. The preferred method of his executions is to (like most intelligent assassins) catch his victims unawares. By the time they know what happened, they usually have the tip of his vampiric dagger well into their flesh. Once this happens, its OVER. With the blade’s power, Artemis can render an opponent completely immobilized. Note that he can extinguish the life of said individual in seconds by allowing the daggers to completely absorb the victim’s life.

    With the help of the magic absorbing Black gauntlet, Gandalf would never see Entreri coming.

    As for the Dragon Statue. I didn’t really inform of this device as a means to deal with Gandalf (although Artemis indeed has enough cunning to use this item to his advantage in combination with the Black Gauntlet to deal with the wizard). I pointed this device out for a possible means of Entreri to gain an upper hand over the competing assassins, if not eliminating them altogether. The scenario did state that to be possible, and Artemis has killed several other assassins that have made the utter catastrophic mistake of stalking HIM with the powerful item. Hell, he could even find a way to eliminate all of his opposing competitors at once with this thing.

    ———————–

    So far, the other posters have not provided enough information on the remaining three contestants that might tip my conclusions towards anyone other than Artemis. I’m still keeping an open mind because I don’t know them well, and IF, at all. With comments like this:

    “Waylander’s dual crossbow gives him a considerable advantage over the other assassins.”

    I doubt my opinion will change.

    I’m quite positive that a flung vampiric dagger would prove to be equally deadly, if not more so.

  14. the cheerful whale January 15, 2009 at 6:41 pm -      #14

    go the dude from assasins creed coz hes from assasins creed

  15. AlphaCommando January 15, 2009 at 8:24 pm -      #15

    Because all I would be doing is restating Mata, I’m just gonna say Artemis and leave it to my more knowledgeable companion to deal the data.

  16. Space marine January 15, 2009 at 9:12 pm -      #16

    The cheerful whale Is speaking the language known as 1337.
    Anyway, Lets Move on to the “Would there be more then one assasins standing?”

    Yes, I see Altair still being around, Either he assasinates Gandalf with his hidden blade, Or he just waits until he gets killed and Swipes his feather on Gandalfs blood.

  17. Matapiojo January 15, 2009 at 9:33 pm -      #17

    “go the dude from assasins creed coz hes from assasins creed”

    /facepalm

  18. Space marine January 16, 2009 at 1:18 am -      #18

    So no matter what…..Altairs a winner! ;)

  19. AlphaCommando January 16, 2009 at 4:47 am -      #19

    I like Altair; personally he’s a very, very interesting game character, however he’s a 2nd or 3rd placer in this competition.

  20. Space marine January 16, 2009 at 6:49 am -      #20

    Now just watch this, This is What Altair does for a living,

    {The link is broken, so I replaced it with this one:}
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc-ClutaN_I

    Now isn’t that nice?

  21. Space marine January 16, 2009 at 7:13 am -      #21

    Well, Thats silly, The link wont work.
    Anyway, Just go to youtube and go to assasins creed opening movie.

  22. LaSt SoN Of KrYpToN January 16, 2009 at 11:59 am -      #22

    who cares about altair. Artemis entreri stands toe 2 toe with Drizzt Do’Urden and lives to tell the tale and then fights him again. Also he works with Jarlaxel and matches wits with him. You might not understand the signifigance of this you haven’t read the books, but these are feats no ordinary human could do

  23. Jwlynas January 16, 2009 at 5:17 pm -      #23

    Hmm.. four assassins sent after the same man. A powerful mage, seemingly unkillable if we consider it to be Gandalf the White?

    Presuming the hunt is within Middle-earth, our assassins would most likely look for a few allies/contacts/trustworthy people to aid them in getting around. To the best of my knowledge, none of the chosen four have any ability that lets them gain immediate knowledge of the surrounding areas.

    Who in Middle-Earth would aid anyone in having Gandalf Killed?

    Sauron, saruman. Grima wormtongue perhaps, Maybe even Denethor. All of them have the resources available, either directly or indirectly, to aid the assassins.

    If we presume they have all agreed to this contract somehow (Blackmail, exhorbant rewards, bragging rights) then lets separate the weaker two.

    Altair, skills or else, is merely a highly skilled assassin. Human, without powers or magic. So he’s out.

    Lucien La’chance has magic on his side, but again is merely a highly skilled assassin. At no point was he shown to be the greatest in the land (That title would go to the hero of oblivion surely?) and so again, we can probably count him out.

    Artemis, from what has been written so far, seems to be a good all round choice. Magics, skill and crazy items.

    That leaves us with waylander. Now he’s killed Demons, Powerful Wizards, kings and sons of king and any number of would-be assassins in his time. He knows about life outside of assassination as well, having started life as a military man before events spiraled out of control and he donned the assassins garb.

    Magically enhanced healing, slower aging process, mystically powered skills… He has a lot going for him. And with a shadow cloak of his own (looted from the corpse of a summoner demon. I’m pretty sure its pure invisibility, but it might only be exceptional camouflage) and weapons strong enough to cut through plate armour (as of the last book), he’s equipped for the job. His crossbow, while sublimely crafted and very deadly, is more of an issue when you consider that its his crossbow, throwing daggers and then close quarters knives that make him a dangerous foe.

    However, this isn’t a free for all. Its probable that at least one set of assassins would team up, if not all four, giving the best chance of success.

    Again, Lucien and Altair would be outclassed by the others, but an alliance of waylander and Artemis would almost certainly spell doom for the White Wizard

  24. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 16, 2009 at 9:14 pm -      #24

    Firstly it’s Gandalf the Grey, I double checked that with the Admin. Secondly, I don’t know all that much about Entreri’s combat style except that it is based on the use of a long blade and a short blade to allow him to execute more complex moves due to the fact that he doesn’t have to risk tangling his blades. Gandalf though appears to be perfectly content to wield not one but two two-handed weapons similtaneously using a blend of elvish fighting styles in a manner similar to Aragon. However Gandalf seems somehow more polished than Aragorn. So, if it came to close quaters then Gandalf has some advantages but so does Artemis. Or Waylander for that matter although in a swordfight against either of these I think he probably, in fact make that almost certainly, wouldn’t be the one walking away.

    You should also be aware that it is not easy to sneak up on a wizard, as Gandalf demonstrates when he tells Frodo that he has know about their shadow in Moria, I refer of course to Smeagul.

    Hmm, Waylander and Artemis teaming up? Hmm, I can’t quite see it yet I can see it at the same time! It’s wierd, but the more I think about it the more the idea seems to improve. In fact it may just be a stroke of genius. However, there is one small problem with it, Waylander seems to have developed moral standards and has even been noticed to be behaving in a heroic manner! So what sort of character does Entreri have, could he put up with the occasional act of do gooding or would he have to try and block the two black bolts Waylander has just fired at him? Though if they did team up, these two would be nigh on unstoppable!

    So, I’m not picking a winner yet but if Entreri did close to engage Gandalf in a duel it would be an awsome spectacle, so I’m going to stop here and savour the image for a while!

  25. Space marine January 16, 2009 at 10:13 pm -      #25

    Nothing is true, Everything is permitted.

    I Want An Assasin’s Creed 2 NOW!

    And using the word Merely….

    Altair is Highly skilled, It doesn’t Mean If you have a Pwnage weapon you can use it correctly, You MUST have skill, Which altair Has in ample supply.

    Altair Is human, But when you think about it, Altair Does not have the Crazy magic items that the others have.

    Now, Imagine Altair If he did have magic items…….Ownage.

  26. TL January 17, 2009 at 12:28 am -      #26

    Altair does possess the Piece of Eden, which he took after defeating Al Mualim. With it, Al Mualim was able to induce mass illusions so real and powerful that the population of Masyaf became mindless thralls bended to his very will.

  27. Space marine January 17, 2009 at 6:25 am -      #27

    We don’t Know if he took it, Because the Animus cut out, Thats why I need an Assasins Creed 2, To get over the cliff hanger.

  28. TL January 17, 2009 at 8:30 am -      #28

    At the end of Assassin’s Creed, he could have destroyed it, but in the end, he didn’t. Al Mualim taunted him saying that Altair could not resist the power given by the Piece of Eden.

    Either way, I’m still voting for my favorite assassin of all time: Artemis Entreri.

  29. Matapiojo January 17, 2009 at 11:18 am -      #29

    @Jwlynas

    Thanks for providing such solid Intel on Waylander. By what you stated, and what I researched myself, I think both he and Artemis are in the same playing field in terms of means and skill.

    However, I believe Waylander is still ill-equipped in comparison. This is only due to him not being in possession of a means to effectively counter magic as flawlessly as Artemis in the form of his red-stitched Black Gauntlet.

    For the purpose of the given scenario, Artemis is still the top contender for the win.

    @Space Marine

    The skills that Altair demonstrate in that intro are nothing to boast in comparison to Artemis’ own physical feats. We see Entreri wrangle with top assassins in the pages provided by R.A. Salvatore that would put those acrobatics to shame.

    I am still greatly unimpressed.

  30. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 17, 2009 at 1:49 pm -      #30

    Yeah Mata, besides, Waylander has fought and killed Joinings that had been perfected and came through to his world through an ancient portal. (For all you who don’t know, the Tales of the Drenai are set in the far future thousands of years after the human race was nearly wiped out in a cataclysm and the find ancient temples that have the power to meld animals to people creating super humans)

  31. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 17, 2009 at 1:50 pm -      #31

    Just to clarify, they do still have magic and stuff but not to the same extent as other worlds do, hence the main reason Waylander hasn’t got any magic items.

  32. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 17, 2009 at 1:54 pm -      #32

    Also, they don’t have any myths regarding the cataclysm. They simply refer to them as the “Ancients.”

    Last thing, most of the magic weapons are ones that have a demon in them like Snaga did or swords like the Swords of Night and Day wielded by Oleg Skilgannon, who by the way could take Drizzt, or the Swords of Fire and Blood.

  33. Jwlynas January 17, 2009 at 2:53 pm -      #33

    Ah, Magic would pose a problem to Waylander. Usually he will have an ally (Dardarlion, his own daughter) protecting him from the magic assaults whilst he does the “Killing anything that can die” thing. Without those to watch over him he would certainly be at a disadvantage.

    Now, that magic weakness does only come into play if he’s seen and seen as a threat before the black bolts from his crossbow take down his target.

    But so as not to give Waylander all the advantages (Any of the four could kill gandalf if they were unseen. It only takes one well placed bolt/knife/blade to kill)

    Yet another reason for him to form some alliances in the LotR world. And who else but the one who’se eqiupped to deal with magics, and is after the same target.

    @Space Marine
    I’m not saying Altair isn’t highly skilled. Its just al the assassins are highly skilled, with years, decades of skill beneath their belts. So its hard to say which would have the most experience.

    As they are all Masters of their trade, I’m going to presume equal skill. Waylander is slower than he use to be. but still more than a match for the majority of mortals. And thats at around 70. In his prime , say 45-50 thanks to the slower aging, he was untouchable.

    And the exact same can be said for Artemis.

    The main problem with the contest is with Lucien, as we have very little knowledge of his past or even his current abilties. Comes with the territory of being a master assassin I suppose, he has no past to speak of. Personally, I would have placed Durzo Blint or Kylar Stern from the “Night Angel” Trilogy of books instead of Lucien, but I presume those are even less well known than Waylander.

  34. Space marine January 17, 2009 at 9:43 pm -      #34

    Altair is a Grandmaster assasin, Just in case you didn’t know.

  35. TL January 18, 2009 at 12:09 am -      #35

    In terms of their physical feats, tactical skills, and improvisation, I’m thinking Altair can match up to Entreri.

    However, Altair’s sword skills pale in comparison to those of Entreri’s, if we are using the gameplay from Assassin’s Creed as canon data.

  36. Jwlynas January 18, 2009 at 6:57 am -      #36

    They are all master of their trade. Grandmaster is a ranking of that assassin to others in his group, not to those from around the world, not an indication of skill in comparison to all other assassins ever.

    Physical feats, tactical skills, improvisation, these are traits all of the master assassins would have to possess to be considered masters.

    Being from worlds where magic is rife, Lucien, Waylander and Artemis have more experience with these types of threats. Altair has been against one such object, and one where the capabilities are easily emulated with mind altering drugs in the water supply. Show me the drug that can render someone invisible to the naked (or even well dressed) eye.

  37. Space marine January 18, 2009 at 8:20 am -      #37

    Well Altairs sword is normal, Thats why It would pale in comparison.
    And If Artemies has a sword that Is Unnaturally sharp, Will it cut other swords in half?

  38. Space marine January 18, 2009 at 8:22 am -      #38

    Now my gravatar should work in a couple of hours.

  39. TL January 18, 2009 at 11:05 am -      #39

    Yup, Altair is severely handicapped in this match, because he has no experience whatsoever in the ways of magic.

    As for the Piece of Eden, it was an object that could be controlled more directly and easily than mind altering drugs in the water supply, and with more powerful and evident results as well.

  40. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 20, 2009 at 8:08 pm -      #40

    Hence the reasons why I’m sticking with a combined effort from Waylander and Entreri

  41. TL January 21, 2009 at 11:24 am -      #41

    Sigh, I’m a fan of Altair too…

    But in the end, I still support Artemis Entreri more than anyone else. With his personality, I’m thinking that Entreri will assassinate any of his partners that he works with (save Jarlaxle Baenre).

  42. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 21, 2009 at 1:27 pm -      #42

    I don’t know, he might get on with Waylander, possibly, anyway he would wait until they had killed Gandalf before he made his move and he might just find he’d grown a black bolt between the eyes!

  43. Matapiojo January 21, 2009 at 2:30 pm -      #43

    Yea, I agree that it would be quite presumptuous of us to say wether these characters would ally or not due to their personalities. What I DO know that most all Assassins share for a common trait is that they are oportunistic. If it will benefit them, they will do it. Period.

    In my opinion, Artemis will see that partnering with any of the others innecesary to finish his task. Like I stated before, he has all the tools to finish the task with relative ease. However, he might find that it is advantageous to keep his competition close so he can plunge a vampiric dagger to the base of their skulls.

    Bottom line, who knows?

  44. the cheerful whale January 22, 2009 at 3:47 am -      #44

    i repeat go the dude from assasins creed coz hes from assasins creed…just look at him hes cool

  45. Space marine January 22, 2009 at 8:14 pm -      #45

    /Facepalm

    Wouldn’t Atermis Get hit in the face after cutting someone’s sword?
    I mean, After blocking an attack, the top half of the sword would kinda……Stab him in the head after It was cut?

  46. Jwlynas January 23, 2009 at 12:25 pm -      #46

    I really wish i knew more of Artemis so I could make a fair judgement there.

    Who has he assassinated? I’m struggling to find any names.

    His weapons, while generally magical, are hardly gamewinners. Especially as he seems to be mostly a fighter, not an assassin. He’d most likely get up close and personal to take on Gandalf and thats not wise. If he loses his knife , say he throws it and gandalf knocks it away, or its knocked from his hand, or his arm is broken by a large oak staff to the bone (All possible, though unlikely) his main fighting style is compromised. What would he do then? Retreat and heal, keep fighting, refusing to believe he can be beat?

    My bet is still on the guy who doesn’t go in for this “Fair fight” nonsense and aknowledged his limits.

    Waylander takes the prize after watching the others fall.

    That or joins forces with gandalf after a deux ex machina and defends him from the others.

    …Wait, shouldn’t this be a “What if?”

    “What if the four most acclaimed assassins hunted down the grey wizard?”

  47. Matapiojo January 23, 2009 at 2:48 pm -      #47

    “…Wait, shouldn’t this be a “What if?”

    I actually like it being here. These sort of alternate scenarios present oportunities for new arguments like the ones coming up here.

    As for the rest of the post.

    I am at work so I cant fish out the names of the more notable characters Salvatore wrote down in his many books involving the assassin. He has killed top wizards and powerful lords within the city of Calimport where he established his name after a lifetime of slaughter.

    He encountered Drizzt Do’Urden while “on the job” tracking down one of the Drow’s closest friends, the Halfling Regis. After he encountered his antagonist, Entreri has been on a road of self-assurance, personal discovery, and character growth. He is currently not regarded as a villain, but more of an anti-hero.

    Although he is of the highest caliber combatant, he is not so openly confrontational as you suggest. His preferred method of eliminating his marks is by stalking. He waits for the best opportunity to plunge his legendary dagger before any other course of action. Should that not be the right course of action, he prefers to ambush his targets. Either catching them unawares enough to quickly plunge his blades into their beating hearts, or setting up intricate traps to completely obliterate his foes.

    Artemis usually spends a considerable amount of time studying his prey. Discovering their weakness, and exploiting them to their fullest. I assure you, Artemis is not the “fair fight” sort of guy. He only demonstrated this atitude towards Drizzt because he has been the only one capable of matching blades with him. Even then it was more to acertain his status as the most dangerous man in the region, not because he wanted to outright kill the Drow.

    Although I do not believe there is anything in Gandalf’s arsenal to defeat Entreri, he is also not one to mindlessly continue the fight. He will retreat, lick his wounds, and look for a better approach such as the said traps method.

    He is also not above exploiting relationships. In this case, he would most certainly massacre the entire Shire in order to weaken the wizard’s state of mind. As soon as Gandalf allows it, chances are a deadly trap would spring to the man’s certain doom.

    It just seems to me that you have this assassin very misunderstood, but I can definitely not fault you if you have not read the books. Same is my view of Waylander. When we rely on the interwebs, we typically only see the character’s “awesome” feats rather than know their personalities. Traits that no doubt have weight in deciding this match.

  48. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 24, 2009 at 10:58 am -      #48

    I’ve only read one book about Entreri and that was years ago, but I do think you’re underestimating the Stormcrow, I mean he killed a Balrog, though he himself also died from the ordeal it is still a mighty feat that took ten days. Have you any idea how powerful he acctually is? In the time of Melkor when Balrogs where fairly common it took the most powerful elves to defeat them.

    And then there is Shadowfax, the Lord of the Meara and the fastest or stongest horse ever to live on Middle Earth. Not only that but he understands human speech and is supposed to be fearless. Not to forget the mighty Gwaihir and the even mightier Thorondor, the Lord of the Eagles and the King of all Birds with a wingspan of 30 fathoms or about 55 metres, both of who have aided Mithrandir on multiple occasions. Also, there is no proof that Gandalf couldn’t bypass Entreri’s gauntlet since he has one of the Rings of Power, but even if he couldn’t he would still trounce him in combat, having litterally centuries of experience in fighting Sauron’s minions.

    So, as I said before, Entreri would probably here about some of the feats of this man and since Gandalf has been described as being an “angel incarnate” in one of Tolkien’s letters then if what you say is about Artemis’ character is true I think both Entreri and Dakeyras would join with Gandalf.

  49. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 24, 2009 at 11:36 am -      #49

    Sorry for the double post, there was a fire alarm and we had to evacuate and I didn’t want to loose what I had typed so I posted.

    Anyway, to continue it would seem as if, with Entreri’s and Dakeyras’ anti-hero personalities then they are likely to get along just fine and may even become friends. However as anti-heros they are more likely to want to defend the Gandalf than kill him scince he has been scited by Tolkien as being an angel incarnate which would appeal to their sense of goodness.

    Definitly to Waylander’s who rescued a Source priest from a long, slow, tortured death on a whim and the priest reawakened his humanity during their time together. First a little bit of background, the reason he became Waylander was because his wife and children were murdured and he vowed to avenge them, though it took him nineteen years to track down the last of the killers. Then by saving the priest and his developing a conscience again he became an anti-hero reather than a cold blooded killer. If Artemis has also undergone a similar transformation then…

  50. TL January 24, 2009 at 11:51 am -      #50

    I’ve never actually completely read or watched any of the LOTR books or movies, so I’m truly ignorant in any matters relating to Gandalf.

    I also would like to clear up some matters on Entreri’s gauntlet. His gauntlet is not as powerful as many think. It could only absorb and/or redirect magic that is aimed specifically at Entreri. For example, if Gandalf uses a Flame Arrow spell on Entreri, he could possibly catch it and throw it back. But if Gandalf threw a Fireball near Entreri’s feet…

    A charred husk will be all that remains of the most notorious assassin on Faerun, unless he has as many magical items as his compatriot Jarlaxle did, or could somehow evade the effects of the Fireball (like he did against Merle Pariso).

    Either way, it would be totally awesome if someone could write a fan-fic about this.

    @ =[BF]=JimmieRox

    Is that Himura Kenshin on your Gravatar?

  51. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 24, 2009 at 3:31 pm -      #51

    Erm, I don’t think so, I’ve been using it as an avatar for ages but I cant remember where I got it from, I don’t think it was Kenshin but I don’t know. I don’t read manga or watch anime or anything like that. I don’t know why, I guess it’s because I read the Hobbit, the LOTR trilogy and the Simarillion in Year 3 (when I was about 8) and, well, since then I mostly stuck to adult fiction with the exception of Batman comics (which I got till I was about 12) and the occasional Asterix book.

    Just found the original image I downloaded, it has the scar on the cheek like most of the images you see on Google search so I think it probably is.

  52. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 24, 2009 at 3:33 pm -      #52

    Erf, stupid smiley, you see where it says 8) well it should say 8 )

  53. Matapiojo January 24, 2009 at 5:42 pm -      #53

    Ok, first, the scenario does not inform of the involvement of Gandalf’s allies. Therefore Shadowfax and Thorondor should not be brought into this as well as any others. In any case, Entreri has a second statue aside from the Dragon one. This statue turns into a Nightmare. Surely this creature could take on any of these additional opponents on a equal level of might.

    Second, I am not taking away anything from Gandalf, but Entreri is particularly well equipped for this match in comparison to the other 3 killers.

    Third, nothing has been said regarding Gandalf’s abilities and/or possessions to suggest that the gauntlet would not work. At least nothing that I am aware of. Even his ring of power lies in a shroud of secrecy in terms of what it does.

    To continue on that, it is true that the gauntlet has its limitations, yet he is still better equipped with the item than the other 3. This was my entire point. Should it come to an open confrontation between Gandalf and any of the four assassins, my money would be on Entreri surviving far longer than the others.

    Taking Entreri’s skill into consideration, he could conceivably bob and weave to catch most direct spells. Be it a flaming arrow, or a mighty fireball, we still have yet to see him come against such a powerful spell that he couldn’t absorb. That means that saying he couldn’t is a matter of as much conjecture as saying he could.

    Now, if we are to go down this path of pure supposition, I could always just say that Entreri has access to all of his partner’s wondrous gadgets. This would make the fight beyond easy as Jarlaxle has many tools to be supernaturally hidden. Be it the telepathic blocking eye-patch, the sound nullifying (or amplifying) boots, or any of the many others trinkets that are a necessity in the great Underdark.

    Perhaps not realistic, but surely within the realm of possibility. Who could say Jarlaxle did not equip his partner for this dangerous fight before he set out on his hunt? Sure its not fair to the others, but it certainly is possible. The curious Drow has been very generous with Entreri in other past instances.

    As you could probably tell, I rather not go down that road.

    Anyways, all I’m saying is that Artemis Entreri has many more pros than cons to finish this fight when compared to the other assassins. Therefore, I believe he would be the one to win.

  54. Jwlynas January 25, 2009 at 9:43 am -      #54

    Matapiojo, if we include allies in this, even help in such small ways as equipping the assassin with greater equipment, then this whole contest flips on its head and Lucien LaChance becomes the front runner. With the sheer quantity or magical equipment and spells that would be theoretically possible for Lucien to own he would become a living god. Swords that trap your very soul, a spell that unleashes all of the elements of the world in a single spot, a staff that could feasibly turn Gandalf into a mordorian orc, only to have him slaughtered by his own allies…

    Lets leave equipment that they could possibly have out of the contest and focus on skill and trademark items.

    Again, saying “This guys more skilled because he’s the most skilled” is a little unfair. they are all, barring our man Lucien, the most skilled. Artemis is a match for Drizzt, a feat that impresses me, even if all I know of drizzt is his appearance in Baldurs gate games. Altair fought against the entire crusader army, and due to my haphazard stealth skills, at least once took on twenty five men at a time.. and won. Waylander has avoided detection by demonic detection hounds searching for his soul, has fought his way through hell and defeated immortal demons without throwing a single punch. They all have impressive feats. it just stands that Artemis and Waylander live in far more dangerous lands than Altair, and Lucien… well, he wasn’t a protagonist.

  55. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 25, 2009 at 10:05 am -      #55

    If Gandalf is traveling in Middle Earth, he would be riding Shadowfax, that is how he gets around so to take Shadowfax out of the equation is, well its just like saying Entreri was transported to Middle Earth and he arrived without his magical items! Also, if there are any animals around at all then Gandalf can enlist their help, being able to talk to them.

  56. Matapiojo January 25, 2009 at 12:47 pm -      #56

    @Jwlynas – Please re-read my post. The point I was trying to make was exactly the one you just argued. I said that it would be ridiculous to enter this line of argument based on pure supposition. The “Jarlaxle gifts” were just an example of that point.

    Beginning of my argument in question = “Now, if we are to go down this path of pure supposition, I could always just say that Entreri has access to all of his partner’s wondrous gadgets.”

    Ending of my argument in question = “As you could probably tell, I rather not go down that road.”

    I can only apologize if my message was not initially clear, but I was getting to exactly the same point you just made.

    @=[BF]=JimmieRox – It seems you won’t let Shadofax go, eh?
    www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG195.jpg

    That’s what Entreri rides. I am certain those two beasts would cancel each other out. Like I said, there is no need to include Shadowfax in this fight, no matter how much you want it here.

  57. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 25, 2009 at 3:28 pm -      #57

    Ahh, but there is, if Gandalf doesn’t have the Lord of the Meara then he has a cart full of fireworks so thats Entreri on fire. Look, it’s simple, the only time Gandalf is without Shadowfax after they are united is Moria and the Black Gate, he even takes him with him when he goes into the West. Also, the main reason I put Shadowfax in the equation is because Gandalf says, and I can’t remember the exact quote but it’s something along the lines of “we shall never be parted again old friend.” Also, magic in Middle Earth is different to the Dungeons and Dragons style magic Entreri is used to combating, most of the magic we see Gandalf work has little or no clear limits, for example the blinding light that he used to drive off the Nazgul or the fight between him and Saruman. The reason I use the blinding light as an example is that it is a continous spell and I doubt AE could block it with his Gauntlet.

  58. Jwlynas January 25, 2009 at 10:56 pm -      #58

    Does anyone mind if I add a few Limitations here?

    Because the match is a tad open.

    Gandalf is in Minis Tiriath. There are guards, and they are aware “someone” is after him, or at least on guard for possible suspicious people. Its not unfair to assume that Gandalf is aware he’s being hunted, after all he has many allies, and its unlikely the news that one of the most respected wizards of that or any age is being targeted would be hidden for long.

    The assassins have only what they are famed for, or what would reasonabley belong to them. Artemis gets his Vampiric dagger, Cloak and the gauntlet. Waylander gets his double crossbow and throwing knives, Atlair gets his various weapons, Lucien LaChances gets the Brotherhood Watchers hood and outfit and the upgraded Blade of Woe.

    There are No mounts. The battle would take place indoors, away from obvious wide open spaces due to…well, its a damn bad idea if you’re being hunted.

    Its not that limited, but without these anything could happen. Waylander gets a wizard to summon a demon, claims Snaga the sender or donnes the Armour of Bronze. Lucien Gets the jabberwock, or Sanguines Rose, or Mehrunes Razor. Artemis getsa bag of holding and turns it inside out (…ok, I know nothing of the Forgotten realms world.) and altair gets to try repeatedly because hes a dream.

    @MataPiojo – Ah, damn, so you were. Sorry, My fault. I do sometimes read the bulk of a message, and not the beginning and end. My bad.

    If anyone disagrees with the limits, speak now. Or change them. Its just an idea

  59. Matapiojo January 26, 2009 at 8:05 am -      #59

    @Jwlynas – S’all good mate, mixups like that happen all the time in this place.

    As for the scenario, I like it. It certainly is something very plausible considering all the parties at hand. Guards can be easily dealt with by any of the assassins, yet it adds a nice level of depth. There are a few kinks, though. Again, I can only speak for the character I know. I will leave it up to the other advocates to speak of similar instances for the others.

    Charon’s Claw is an intergral part of Entreri’s current fighting style. He uses the blade’s ability to leave a trail of smoke behind, confisuing his oponents greatly, much more often than any other in his arsenal. I also doubt he would hang around without his dragon trap. This thing has saved him from major ambushes, as well as utilized it for that same purpose.

    So I say Entreri has:

    -Vampiric Dagger
    -Charon’s Claw
    -Black Gauntlet
    -Drow Pwiwafi (cloak)
    -Dragon Statue

    I really dont see him parting with those 5 items unless they are pried out of his dead hands. This means that I am leaving out Entreri’s other weapons like his throwing daggers, and his asortment of traps, as well as Entreri’s Nightmare statue.

    @=[BF]=JimmieRox – Please lets move on from Shadofax, it really is a non-issue. Even more so if we agree on Jwlynas’ scenario.

  60. TL January 26, 2009 at 10:15 am -      #60

    I say Altair has:

    -Sabre
    -Throwing Daggers
    -Hidden Blade
    -His Fists!
    -A Piece of Eden? (subject to change)
    -His awesome White Eagle Cloak.

  61. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 26, 2009 at 5:42 pm -      #61

    I disagree with the senario, Gandalf knew Frodo was being hunted by the Nazgul but he didn’t run and hide in Minas Tirith, it’s not his way! Do you know why he is called Stormcrow? Well if not then you should find out but basically it’s, well, it’s your reasearch.

    Also, Waylander has his swords, two short swords scabarded around the waist that have been touched against a Rajnee blade giving them magical properties, although the blue glow didn’t last for all that long there is no telling how the swords were affected and if they retained any of the magical properties.

    Also, Gandalf would himself try to avoid narrow corridors and small spaces because if he were attacked then these would limit his fighting style. However you still havent answered my question, how would Entreri fare against the blinding light or another continous spell? I mean if he couldn’t see then he’s dead.

    Lastly, I say that since Gandalf is on home turf while the others have been transported to a new world then Gandalf gets whatever he would have access to according to the books. And, one last thing, Gandalf’s magical shield is cannon and once initiated it makes him impervious to damage, and dont tell me Entreri could overcome it when it takes direct hits from a Balrog’s Shadow Blade

  62. Matapiojo January 27, 2009 at 8:23 am -      #62

    @=[BF]=JimmieRox

    For AoE spells, I don’t really have an answer. Saying yea or nay on that would be a bit of speculation on my part as I can’t recall that particular example. On that same note, there has been nothing stated that the Gauntlet cannot handle AoE spells. It just has not happened. Entreri has not had the oportunity to try and use this item very often to know all of its capabilities.

    Here is an entry I found on my research that might better explain it:
    “The black, red-laced gauntlet is worn on the right hand. The red stitching runs through the gauntlet like veins of blood. It’s laces pulse warning the wearer of magical scrying. The wearer can even detect, whether the scrying is of magical, priestly or psionic nature. By wearing the gauntlet, the owner can catch magic directed at him within the magical netting of the gauntlet, can even capture the magical energies and turn them back against the initiator or just dispell such magic.”

    Note that I am still going on some deduction on my part, but I believe that as long as the spell is affecting Entreri while he wileds the Gauntlet, he MAY be able to dispell the effect if it is not harmful (like the light used against the Nazgul). Again, I don’t have an example of this event. This is just logical deduction on my part.

    Take heed that this will also protect Artemis from Gandalf’s detection spells. Couple that with his superior skills at avoiding physical detection, and gandalf could quite possibly never see him coming.

    Against magical shields, Entreri has broken past them with a prolonged flurry of strikes (all the while not getting hit by the wizard in question, and he didn’t have the Black Gauntled or Charon’s Claw then). This may have been due to the nature of the spell, could you provide reference to the spell Gandalf would divine?

    Before it is said, I know how it looked in the movie and what it stood against, I’m asking for possible game mechanics (from any of the many LotR games) on the spell for better comparison.

    As for the actual setting that was recomended, it is mainly irrelevant. The man would still be stalked by some of the the highest calibre assassins we have ever seen. These individuals are much more subtle than screaming Nazgul banging on every door they come across….

    The whole point of this rabble is that the chances of Gandalf not engaging any of the four in open combat is MUCH higer than him spotting them miles away and preparing accordingly.

    Entreri for one can stalk for a very, VERY long time. He impersonated a halfling (via a magical mask) for many months in order to better know his target, Drizzt Do’Urden. The man has the patience necessary to be the TOP assassin in multiple cities full of practitioners of this dark profession.

    And that was just his own efforts. He has also employed others in order for him to witness his target’s capabilities. You dont get to be the top man in this profession without cunning and wits.

    I have absolute confidence that he would strike when Gandalf is the weakest. I do not doubt the other 3 are just as efficient. We are not talking about open combat here (though it MAY come to that). We are talking about a possible 4 counts of cold-blooded murder.

    I may understand your devotion, but Gandalf WILL fall to one of the four. Your defense of him is slightly misplaced in this match as it is a lost cause.

  63. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 28, 2009 at 2:16 pm -      #63

    It’s really not, erm, the only LotR games I had where for the gameboy advance and I remember (it’s been a while scince I played them) that in the Return of the King the shield made you invunerable for the time period it lasted. Also that the Blinding Light did enough damage to kill a large cave troll in three hits. To my knowledge Gandalf doesn’t use scrying spells, he listens to nature and the animals tell him stuff.

  64. Matapiojo January 28, 2009 at 2:54 pm -      #64

    I see, I see.

    I guess it would be hard to compare the effects of Gandalf’s shield vs the magical shields Entreri has defeated.

    The strength of the Area of Effect spell is irrelevant because we have still have not determined whether it is dispelled, absorbed, or un-affected by the gauntlet. As there is no previous example, its not rightly possible to say. My personal opinion is (due to game mecanics in D&D) that as long as the wielder of the Black Gauntlet is affected by the spell in question, it could be dispelled. The mechanics do not specify of absorbing AoEs, so I am only arguing towards the dispelling.

  65. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 28, 2009 at 3:27 pm -      #65

    I was just doing some reasearch and it seems that the powers of Narya, the Red Ring of Fire, are a little difficult to specify. It would appear that it should be of a similar power to Nenya and Vilya, that is to say it is second only to the One Ring itself, although Vilya is supposed to be more powerful than the other two, and far greater than the Nine Rings of Men.

    Also, here is a quote for you, “I galloped to Weathertop like a gale, and I reached it before sundown on my second day from Bree – and they were there before me. They drew away from me, for they felt the coming of my anger and they dared not face it while the Sun was in the sky. But they closed round at night, and I was besieged on the hill-top, in the old ring of Amon Sûl. I was hard put to it indeed: such light and flame cannot have been seen on Weathertop since the warbeacons of old.” Gandalf talking about fighting the Nazgul.

  66. Jwlynas January 30, 2009 at 9:41 am -      #66

    Hmm… I could try and find my old Middle-earth rp guide. Got it with a bunch of stuff from my uncle and it had a farily well detailed list of over the top powered peoples. It had suitabkly powerful stats for the Gods, I’m sure both versions of Gandalf were in there as well…

    Until that comes to pass though, let us consider a few things.

    All of these assassins have, we must presume, killed some sort of magic wielding type. Artemis has, Waylander has, Altair apparentally has (after the 30th pointless mug an informant quest I spent the rest of my time agitating crusaders and stabbing people who asked me for money… good times) and Lucien must have. Everyone wields magic in his world.

    The point is, magic isn’t the decided here, skill is. And all of our Assassins are highly skilled at assassination, whereas Gandalf has never shown any aptitude for not being stabbed sneakily in the dark by an unseen bolt.

    He gets told things by the animals, they mgiht know of the assassins, but they won’t know all of the plans. Wayalnder at least has had to complete assassinations when no living thing around him can be trusted. He succeeded.

    Gandalf will die eventually. That he’ll come back more powerful is moot, the assassins are paid for one death.

  67. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 30, 2009 at 9:06 pm -      #67

    You don’t sneak up on Gandalf, he had known Golum was following them since they left Lothlorien.

  68. Jwlynas January 30, 2009 at 10:44 pm -      #68

    Gollum the reeking, half mad mutant hobbit who constantly mutters to himself?
    You’re going to compare his stealth skill to that of any one of the four master trained assassins who look human?

    Lucien has the chameleon robes, and so cannot be seen. Artemis hdisguised himself as a hobbit, waylander has been disguised as guards, successfuly, so often I’m surprised he’s not pulling waged, and Altair can blend in with monk despite quite clearly baing armed to the teeth.

    I’m not saying Gandalf isn’t capable of great feats. But this is Gandalf the Grey here, and he’s no reason to presume he would be being followed. Unlike when questing with the ringbearer, where Sarumans spys were all around.

  69. Seaweed January 30, 2009 at 11:17 pm -      #69

    One question, why does Lucien’s pic show a random assassin chick instead of him?

  70. admin January 31, 2009 at 12:07 am -      #70

    @Seaweed – Sometimes it’s hard to find a good picture and when you’re relying on the web to find images, sometimes, I miss the mark – not the first time this has happened…and I know it won’t be the last!

  71. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 31, 2009 at 12:44 am -      #71

    Well, for one Golum is very stealthy, living for hundreds of years in the middle of an orc citadel will do that to you! Not only that but his prefered method of killing is strangulation and he was able to sneak up on some of the smaller orcs and kill them when he was living under the mountain. Secondly, he was able to sneak past Shelob in her tunnels then cross Mordor without Sam or Frodo noticing he was following them until he attacked them on Mount Doom.

  72. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 1, 2009 at 2:58 pm -      #72

    Ahh, now you see “but this is Gandalf the Grey here, and he’s no reason to presume he would be being followed” is completely wrong. He was sent to Ea by Eru for one reason, and one reason alone, to engineer the fall of Sauron. This was his quest and as you see when he falls fighting Durin’s Bane, Eru is just going to keep sending him back until he achieves it. So you see, yes, he is always on his guard except for when he is in the Shire. Even then he is still wary. Also, if someone pays them to kill him then they aren’t going to be too pleased when he rises from the grave and comes after them.

    Just noticed this:

    “He [Entreri] is also not above exploiting relationships. In this case, he would most certainly massacre the entire Shire in order to weaken the wizard’s state of mind.”

    No, really, just no! That would just make Gandalf angry and trust me his anger would drive him to find Entreri and kill him. If Entreri was able to find Gandalf’s one weakness then he would fear the consequenses, and rightly so.

  73. Matapiojo February 2, 2009 at 7:32 am -      #73

    “No, really, just no! That would just make Gandalf angry and trust me his anger would drive him to find Entreri and kill him. If Entreri was able to find Gandalf’s one weakness then he would fear the consequenses, and rightly so.”

    Maybe, maybe not, but since I made that statement in pure speculation its safe to say that anything can happen. Even anger can be exploited by one such as Artemis. One wrong spell thrown in blind anger, and it may just be used against him. I’m pretty sure calm-collected Gandalf is more of a threat than berzerker-rash Gandalf.

  74. hellatus February 2, 2009 at 7:49 am -      #74

    altair ftw cause he has the power of illusion :D

  75. Matapiojo February 2, 2009 at 10:35 am -      #75

    “altair ftw cause he has the power of illusion”

    Ugh…

    …really?

  76. hellatus February 4, 2009 at 4:47 am -      #76

    ya after he beat his master he got it didnt he?

  77. Matapiojo February 4, 2009 at 9:44 am -      #77

    looks like he missed my point completely.

    Now, where did I put my /sarcasm?

  78. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 4, 2009 at 1:14 pm -      #78

    Ah dear!

    Some people!

    You know what we need, a convention for implying sarcasm! Or a test for inteligence before your first post!

  79. Matapiojo February 6, 2009 at 11:21 am -      #79

    A test sounds great.

    Maybe some sort of IQ poll!

    ……nah. I decided against it. That would diminish the amount of posts I get to shoot down out of sheer ignorance. Meh. Let em keep comming, I’m sure they will move along soon enough.

  80. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 6, 2009 at 4:55 pm -      #80

    Haha, yeah! A nice sensible discussion with clear, precise, well thought out arguments would not be as fun without the people who say things like:

    “MC beets down dem al coz he iz da dogz bolloxz an he haz da splaaaaaaaaaaay-zerrrrrrrrrrrr”

    or in this case:

    “go the dude from assasins creed coz hes from assasins creed”

    “i repeat go the dude from assasins creed coz hes from assasins creed…just look at him hes cool”

    “altair ftw cause he has the power of illusion :D”

    Yes, you have some great arguments for Altaïr Ibn La-Ahad there chaps, really consise and well planned. I can see you’ve obviously done loads of reasearch there and reached an entirely logical conclusion based on all the availiable evidence.

    *shake head in disgust, exit stage right*

  81. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 6, 2009 at 5:01 pm -      #81

    That was sarcasm by the way for those of you who didn’t get it the first time, you know who are now off you toddle and read Asterix and Obelix, on second thoughts you might find that a bit complex. I’m sure there’ll be a colouring book suitable for you somewhere!

  82. Matapiojo February 7, 2009 at 2:45 pm -      #82

    “I’m sure there’ll be a colouring book suitable for you somewhere!”

    I hear they have some menus at IHOP that might be appropriate.

  83. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 8, 2009 at 12:25 am -      #83

    Haha, yeah! You could probably just give them a dummy, that should be enough! I had to go check what an ‘IHOP’ was, I don’t think we have them in the UK.

  84. Matapiojo February 8, 2009 at 9:31 am -      #84

    I thought as much. Doesn’t that strike you as silly, though? You would think that a corporation with the outlandish concept (branded into its very trademark) such as the INTERNATIONAL House of Pancakes (IHOP) would invest into putting a couple in the major countries of the world.

    …Go figure.

  85. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 8, 2009 at 10:23 pm -      #85

    Aye, well I guess we’ve found out what some failures, er I mean people, become when they have a sufficient level of maturity to get there first job, ie around about the age of 37 after their mum through them out of her council house. They work in a fail restaurant for a fail wage for a fail company with a fail name. In fact one could just say they failed in life. Have fun fail-boys!

  86. hellatus February 9, 2009 at 7:31 am -      #86

    i feel really dumb right now

  87. Alexa C. February 11, 2009 at 4:12 am -      #87

    Hello there!
    I had a great time reading all this thread.

    In my opinion, Altair has the lowest possibilities of succeding from this group. That’s mainly because I know nothing about Lucien other than what I’ve read here, and it’s not much.
    The ones leading would be, I think, Waylander and Entreri. I see both quite capable of finishing the task. I’d say why, but I’d only be repeating what you guys have already said in past posts. However, I’d bet on Entreri.
    I think he’s better equiped and, the most important things, he’s managed to get as far as he has by not underestimating his targets and having a solid knowledge of his own skills AND limitations. Finally, I’ll admit, he’s my favorite assassin of all the time.
    So, yes, my vote for Entreri.

  88. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 11, 2009 at 12:16 pm -      #88

    Well, I still think Entreri and Dakeyras would team up, there is definitely major advantages for both parties in the alliance. So, if we assume that together they can triumph (personally I disagree but given that the debate is going nowhere fast if the wizard still lives) the next question would be who, if either, would walk away from the alliance alive and still be capable of claiming the bounty?

  89. Wraith March 3, 2009 at 10:41 am -      #89

    Artemis Entreri. Charon’s Claw, Vampiric Dagger, Magic ABSORBING gauntlet. Lets also clear up some other things. While he is an assassin, he doesnt like to rely on poisons, traps, or even minions. He doesnt need to. His main focus in life was to be the best swordsman in the realms (which according to the books, has only lost to Drizzt Do’urden and to a point, Jarlaxle Baenre, and has survived both). Gandalf, while I admit has shown remarkable Skill swinging staff and sword around, is a spell slinger more than a melee sort, and simply doesnt have the polish, skill and force that Artemis has with his sword and dagger, and wont be able to affect Artemis with magic as long as he wears that gauntlet.

  90. =[BF]=JimmieRox March 5, 2009 at 6:22 pm -      #90

    Well, to put it bluntly, I doubt it! Gandalf is a demigod after all, has Entreri ever faced the magic of a demigod before? Also, I don’t think you should dismiss Glamdring and the wizards staff so quickly!

  91. =[BF]=JimmieRox March 5, 2009 at 6:29 pm -      #91

    Now I’m not saying that Gandalf could easily overpower the gauntlet but I don’t think you should just say that he can’t because the type of magic he is used to is vastly different to the type of magic Gandalf uses!

  92. cyborg pirate ninja jesus March 9, 2009 at 6:11 am -      #92

    a bit off topic but…….lhabsuivli BWAyipogl9uoighnaBVWliyef

    soz just think this site needs a little more randomness

  93. Matapiojo March 9, 2009 at 8:41 am -      #93

    “a bit off topic but…….lhabsuivli BWAyipogl9uoighnaBVWliyef

    soz just think this site needs a little more randomness”


    ………………………………………..________……………………
    ………………………………,.-‘”……………….“~.,………………
    ………………………..,.-”……………………………..“-.,…………
    …………………….,/………………………………………..”:,……..
    …………………,?………………………………………………\,…..
    ………………./…………………………………………………..,}….
    ……………../………………………………………………,:`^`..}….
    ……………/……………………………………………,:”………/…..
    …………..?…..__…………………………………..:`………../…..
    …………./__.(…..“~-,_…………………………,:`………./……..
    ………../(_….”~,_……..“~,_………………..,:`…….._/………..
    ……….{.._$;_……”=,_…….“-,_…….,.-~-,},.~”;/….}………..
    ………..((…..*~_…….”=-._……“;,,./`…./”…………../…………
    …,,,___.\`~,……“~.,………………..`…..}…………../………….
    …………(….`=-,,…….`……………………(……;_,,-”……………
    …………/.`~,……`-………………………….\……/\……………….
    ………….\`~.*-,……………………………….|,./…..\,__………..
    ,,_……….}.>-._\……………………………..|…………..`=~-,….
    …..`=~-,_\_……`\,……………………………\……………………
    ……………….`=~-,,.\,………………………….\…………………..
    …………………………..`:,,………………………`\…………..__..
    ……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>–==“…….
    …………………………………._\……….._,-%…….`\……………
    ……………………………..,

  94. cyborg pirate ninja jesus March 10, 2009 at 7:20 am -      #94

    lol how much time did it take u to make that
    it looks cool

  95. cyborg pirate ninja jesus March 10, 2009 at 7:21 am -      #95

    and dont facepalm me lol everyone loves a little randomness

    ………………………………………..________……………………
    ………………………………,.-‘”……………….“~.,………………
    ………………………..,.-”……………………………..“-.,…………
    …………………….,/………………………………………..”:,……..
    …………………,?………………………………………………\,…..
    ………………./…………………………………………………..,}….
    ……………../………………………………………………,:`^`..}….
    ……………/……………………………………………,:”………/…..
    …………..?…..__…………………………………..:`………../…..
    …………./__.(…..“~-,_…………………………,:`………./……..
    ………../(_….”~,_……..“~,_………………..,:`…….._/………..
    ……….{.._$;_……”=,_…….“-,_…….,.-~-,},.~”;/….}………..
    ………..((…..*~_…….”=-._……“;,,./`…./”…………../…………
    …,,,___.\`~,……“~.,………………..`…..}…………../………….
    …………(….`=-,,…….`……………………(……;_,,-”……………
    …………/.`~,……`-………………………….\……/\……………….
    ………….\`~.*-,……………………………….|,./…..\,__………..
    ,,_……….}.>-._\……………………………..|…………..`=~-,….
    …..`=~-,_\_……`\,……………………………\……………………
    ……………….`=~-,,.\,………………………….\…………………..
    …………………………..`:,,………………………`\…………..__..
    ……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>–==“…….
    …………………………………._\……….._,-%…….`\……………
    ……………………………..,

    yoink

  96. Matapiojo March 10, 2009 at 8:56 am -      #96

    I cannot take credit for it, nor give its due credit as I don’t know its original source. It was just fitting.

  97. cyborg pirate ninja jesus March 11, 2009 at 11:05 pm -      #97

    still pretty cool i hadnt seen it b4

  98. Master Arbiter(Spartan G44) April 13, 2009 at 9:13 pm -      #98

    I think Gandalf could maybe kill all four.

  99. Blood Dancer May 24, 2009 at 8:07 am -      #99

    I’m a fan of Gemmell so i’ll go with Waylander but the other contestants have no dues to pay. Gandalf is pretty tough even without the fellowship, he took on a Balrog. The most likely scenario is for them to team up. Complete the assignement and then fight each other. The last man standing takes the glory and the credits

  100. Larz June 26, 2009 at 1:23 am -      #100

    Hey just read this entire thread and I would have to say that probably Artemis would win in a all out close-combat fight between him and the other assassins. However since they are assassins and being stealthy is their job then I would go with Waylander because of his double barrelled crossbow…he is probably the only assassin here that uses a ranged weapon as his primary weapon.
    Ok so now about attacking Gandalf. Although I haven’t read the books or watched the movies in years I presume that Gandalf can detect other magical objects or atleast the evil presence of the assassins. If I am correct I remember him being able to feel the evil presence of the balrog or detect the magical abilities of Glamdring when he found it, or atleast was very knowledgable. Lets start with Artemis. Lots of people here talk about how Artemis’s glove will absorb his magic. Well if I remember correctly in the book Promise of The Witch King, his glove over-heated and was destroyed by lightning bolts from a minor lich. So if that is what it takes to beat the glove then I say that Gandalf could probably overheat it with one spell. The only way Artemis could beat Gandalf is either with stealth (that being hard because Gandalf could probably detect all the magical equipment he has on him) or MAYBE close quarters combat.
    Lucien against Gandalf just doesn’t work with me. Not much info is given about him although apparently he is a master assassin. This however did not save him from getting hanged by his mates. Gandalf could easily beat him magically and in close quarters combat. I also have this feeling that Gandalf will be able to detect him from his magical presence if he tries to sneak up with his chameleon spell.
    Altair, well this guy is pretty cool but I would have to say that he is not as skilled as Artemis or Waylander. Altair relies mostly on stealth, so if he can somehow sneak in the castle, find Gandalf, and kill him before he even knows he was killed then Altair would win. If Gandalf even realised that Altair was an assassin then i would have to say that he would be ashes in a matter of miliseconds.
    Waylander, probably has the best chance of taking on Gandalf. I can imagine him climbing up a tower which is next to Gandalf’s tower and sniping him down when his face appears on a window. Waylander probably has the best stealth abilities of all the other assassins when going against Gandalf. He carries no magical objects aside from the demon cloak which I am not sure is magical or simply naturally cloaks its wearers. Anyways he probably doesn’t even need it for the job. The others really on sneaking up and getting close to Gandalf while Waylander can do it form a far. This I see as a major advantage for Waylander.

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