Master Chief vs Solid Snake

Master Chief versus Solid Snake

Another post suggestion. I played Metal Gear 2 for NES and thought it was a decent game. Never thought too much of it and then I kept on seeing more coverage about the upcoming Metal Gear 4, and with a great fanbase, I think this makes for a great vs battle.

So, here goes:

Master Chief:

  • Various weapon skills
  • Regenerating Shields
  • Multiple Vehicle selection
  • Lone Wolf Mentality
  • Super Cool Armor

Solid Snake:

  • Excellent hand to hand combat skills
  • Weapon Mastery
  • Communication Expert
  • Stealth
  • Quick thinking

So, to celebrate Halo 3’s release and Guns of the Patriots upcoming release, who comes out on top in a one-vs-one battle?

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1,855 Comments on "Master Chief vs Solid Snake"

  1. TheSorrow May 27, 2012 at 4:22 pm -      #1801

    “All I can think of is the camo elites.”

    Which none of them were stealthy. Some of them held glowing energy swords. Others fired on sight as soon as they saw him giving away their positions immediately.

  2. SgCombine May 27, 2012 at 4:56 pm -      #1802

    “Some of them held glowing energy swords”

    The swords have been invisible since Halo 2, your a “bit” behind…

  3. TheSorrow May 27, 2012 at 5:03 pm -      #1803

    “The swords have been invisible since Halo 2, your a “bit” behind…”

    You really think I don’t know that? I’m talking about when Master Chief infiltrated Truth & Reconciliation to recover Captain Keyes in the book. The elite was just patrolling the Control Room with the energy sword activated right out in the open for everyone to see.

  4. Iron Lowk May 27, 2012 at 5:49 pm -      #1804

    “Which none of them were stealthy.”

    Was actually referring to the camo in itself. Iirc the spartan enhanced vision allow them to see them better. Which would help against seeing Snake since his as well is not completely invisible, just blended in.
    That plus the motion sensor, the hearing, and the hud vision thing should help in locating Snake.

  5. TheSorrow May 27, 2012 at 5:51 pm -      #1805

    “That plus the motion sensor”

    Only works up 15 meters.

    “hud vision thing”

    You should probably be more specific.

  6. Iron Lowk May 27, 2012 at 6:01 pm -      #1806

    “Only works up 15 meters.”

    Really , though it was 25 meter and they had the ability to boost it pass that. TMWTA had a quote somewhere, I’ll see if I can find it.
    ===
    “You should probably be more specific.”

    This
    image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/features/gameguides/halo_reach/0076.jpg

  7. TheSorrow May 27, 2012 at 6:04 pm -      #1807

    “Really , though it was 25 meter and they had the ability to boost it pass that. TMWTA had a quote somewhere, I’ll see if I can find it.”

    Well either way 25 meters isn’t very effective against an opponent who has weapons that exceed that with no trouble at all.

    “This
    image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/features/gameguides/halo_reach/0076.jpg”

    Do they ever explain what kind of tech it uses to outline enemy bodies.

  8. SgCombine May 27, 2012 at 6:27 pm -      #1808

    “Do they ever explain what kind of tech it uses to outline enemy bodies.”

    Sci-fi night vision, derp.

    www.halopedian.com/Night_vision

  9. TheSorrow May 27, 2012 at 6:30 pm -      #1809

    Still doesn’t really explain how it outlines them.

  10. Iron Lowk May 27, 2012 at 6:31 pm -      #1810

    Found it
    “Time seemed to simultaneously crawl and race—something Kelly had once dubbed “SPARTAN Time.” Enhanced senses and augmented physiology meant that in periods of stress Spartans thought and reacted faster than a normal human. Fred’s mind raced as he absorbed the tactical situation. He activated his motion sensors, boosting the range to maximum.
    His team appeared as blips on his heads-up display. With a sigh of relief he saw that all twenty-six of them were present and pulling into a wedge formation. “Covenant ground forces could be tracking the Pelican,” Fred told them over the COM. “Expect AA fire.” The Spartans immediately broke formation and scattered across the sky.”
    Pgs.15-19 FS

    Though the only thing I could find on different range was that there is an option in to increase it to 150 meters.
    ===
    “Well either way 25 meters isn’t very effective against an opponent who has weapons that exceed that with no trouble at all.”

    Would be helpful to keep track of him while he’s trying to run away to find a hiding spot.
    ===
    “Do they ever explain what kind of tech it uses to outline enemy bodies.”

    I got no more clue then you. Unless you go for the wiki SGcombine put up.

  11. OMEGAMI May 27, 2012 at 7:00 pm -      #1811

    If I’m not mistaken, SL can go through multiple tanks (scorpion or hydra, about 5 of them as I tried in forge and I’m not mistaken that this information concludes that the SL could go through several tough layers of metal), so it’s safe to assume that it could go through a few walls (depending on the terrain), his X-Ray vision (as stated to be (but we still have to see it in the new game)) will aloud MC to see Snake and then SL will hit.
    I know that UNSC standard weapons suck, but out of that they have weapons that exceed that of MGS, the Sniper Rifle doesn’t have that much of a downfall, it fires bullets that can pierce right through multiple Elite and Brute armor and it’s ballistic speed is not that of a standard bullet, SL are beyond that tech and the Gauss turrets have an insane ballistic speed that is incalculable for me, those things pack enough punch and speed to pierce and blow up multiple banshees out of the sky at long distances while they are going at high speed (that’s if you are good enough to nail the shot, but if you shoot at the blank, the speed that the ballistic travels will make sure it hits).
    Have you ever shot a Gauss canon at the horizon, those things can make it all the way into outer space.
    And in Halo 4, they would be bringing more and better weapons from the UNSC, one of them being a Rail Gun, more and improved energy based weapons (from the UNSC side) as well as an improved version of the standard weapons like the battle rifle (probably now they will get it up to the tech it’s suppose to be).
    And of course who knows what will be the improvements made to MC armor, it’s going to be tougher of course and physical improvements, as well as new abilities.

  12. TheSorrow May 27, 2012 at 7:28 pm -      #1812

    “his X-Ray vision (as stated to be (but we still have to see it in the new game)) will aloud MC to see Snake and then SL will hit.”

    My bet is it will only be able to reach out a certain distance before stopping. Like go through a wall at most.

  13. OMEGAMI May 27, 2012 at 11:33 pm -      #1813

    With a new upgrade like that and some unknown upgrades that have not being proven yet, I think people will take their time to revisit some old fights and see if MC has a chance against them, I think he might win 2 or 3, unless they pull of a magic card off their a** and he gets really WTF OP in an instant at around Goku level then FP will really be in a WTF situation but I doubt it because it’s still a FPS game and they don’t have those means…… could happen.

  14. TheSorrow May 27, 2012 at 11:58 pm -      #1814

    Halo 4 certainly seems like a game changer.

  15. Commander Cross May 27, 2012 at 11:59 pm -      #1815

    @Sorrow

    Main question is this:
    How much of a game-changer will it be?
    Will it be enough to help Chief fight off Devil May Cry’s Dante, for instance?
    Or will it risk weakening him further?

  16. TheSorrow May 28, 2012 at 12:01 am -      #1816

    “How much of a game-changer will it be?”

    We’ll just have to wait until the release date.

    “Will it be enough to help Chief fight off Devil May Cry’s Dante, for instance?”

    If only…

    “Or will it risk weakening him further?”

    From the looks of it, I think it will beef him up, but not to ridiculous levels.

  17. The King of Games May 28, 2012 at 12:03 am -      #1817

    @TheSorrow
    How funny would it be if it gave MC weapons comparable to/on par with Samus?

  18. Commander Cross May 28, 2012 at 12:04 am -      #1818

    @Sorrow

    Or at least not to ridiculous enough levels to beat DMC’s Dante with equally ridiculous ease?*

    (Which in turn would mean he can beat up Twilight’s Edward mono-a-mono if the match is done right?)

  19. Commander Cross May 28, 2012 at 12:04 am -      #1819

    @Your Majesty

    It would mean that he could fight off Samus properly if he can track her, but MegaMan X is still out of the question!

  20. TheSorrow May 28, 2012 at 12:05 am -      #1820

    “How funny would it be if it gave MC weapons comparable to/on par with Samus?”

    Well if it’s Forerunner weapons we are talking about, then it just might be possible. Of course game mechanics probably wont allow that.

  21. OMEGAMI May 28, 2012 at 12:06 am -      #1821

    By the looks of it, no it won’t put him on Dante’s league that’s absurd LOL :)
    But for what I have seen it won’t make him any weaker either, I say it will give him a slight X-Ray vision, 1.2x speed, defense, strength and reflexes (as they say that the game will be fast pace compared to the others) and it comes without saying that new guns, the older ones have being improved so we will be debating with a new standard load out for the chief (a better rifle and handgun) plus a better SL if I’m not mistaken.
    Yes I think the overall bets improvement for the Chief would be better gear and a few extra armor features and an increased overall stats.
    A level up and new equipment if we go by Final Fantasy logic.

  22. The King of Games May 28, 2012 at 12:07 am -      #1822

    @Cross
    To be fair not a lot of people are in X’s league. I mean his arsenal is broken.

  23. OMEGAMI May 28, 2012 at 12:08 am -      #1823

    No he won’t be in Samus level nor Megaman level, that will take up to Halo 6, and yes, as long as their is an Xbox then they will continue to make Halo games.

  24. Commander Cross May 28, 2012 at 12:11 am -      #1824

    @Your Majesty

    True enough, its rather terrifying in retrospect that someone like KOS-MOS can go head-to-head with X himself and not either get auto-destroy or be auto-destroyed as a result. :pale:
    Is it wrong to be terrified of that idea?

    @Sorrow

    Hopefully 343 might know better and indulge us, of course this might mean we’d have to state the exact incarnations for Chief to be used, the Chief from 1st 3 main Halo games or the stage from 4, in fact.

    @OMEGAMI

    I’m just asking, an Inglishman regards that anyone who loses to Chief is $hit tier, which to be frank is just very bad logic to apply to anyone and discourages fair fights from being done.

  25. OMEGAMI May 28, 2012 at 12:14 am -      #1825

    He could get his armor infused with some forerunner tech wich will aloud him to expand and upgrade his suit by acquiring shiny forerunner orbs or “Halo power cells”, he gets the power of a Halo ring and lock it into his armor, but then the fans would be weeping because of how much they changed it and how they ruined it blah blah blah blah.

  26. Commander Cross May 28, 2012 at 12:15 am -      #1826

    @OMEGAMI

    Or we’d be panicking for how via the Inglishman’s logic, everyone not FTL is suddenly $hit tier, all of a sudden, even the ones who meant no harm and are just trying to help and make a living!*

    (In general!)

  27. OMEGAMI May 28, 2012 at 12:27 am -      #1827

    In the world of FP, everybody and everything is above human standards, what is below human standards should be considered Shit Tier, please tell me if their is anybody in FP who can walk down a street and get beaten up by some random dude trying to mug him.

  28. Commander Cross May 28, 2012 at 12:32 am -      #1828

    @OMEGAMI

    Dudley Dursley might qualify, but then again his family doesn’t even have military books(as if my reasons to loathe both him and his father were already far from massive enough…) but since he didn’t debut in the site for better or for worse, I’m guessing that doesn’t count, right?

    One would have to be flandernized to not be able to properly fight back against a High School of the Dead zombie, mono-a-mono, if I need be frank.

  29. OMEGAMI May 28, 2012 at 12:53 am -      #1829

    If you are below standard human then you are S*** tire, I won’t consider myself shit tire if I lost a fist fight against a guy like the Chief, he can turn over cars in one kick just like the Nanosuit and casually leap 10 feat in the air.
    Why should I be ashamed to loose against someone like that?
    MC shouldn’t be considered low class as he is above human physics, in FP we have humans who are above standard, just by that it puts them above human standard and they should be considered superior.
    If you loose it an ant, you are s*** tire, if you loose to Rambo, you don’t go into the s*** tire list.
    If MC is low class then what is the standard class?
    Spiderman? Superman? Goku?
    Because there is allot of people above those.

  30. Commander Cross May 28, 2012 at 1:00 am -      #1830

    @OMEGAMI

    You feel like what I’d call someone who’s better-suited in this family.
    Then again, methinks family on BankGambling must be a more important matter than any regard to any specified tiers if it is meant to be home to all.

    I would not consider myself shit tier if I were to lose a fist fight against someone like either Haseo or Harry Dresden, I hope I don’t consider myself that If I lost to someone like Solid Snake, and I sure as Hell hope I don’t consider myself shit tier if I lose a fist fight to either Commander Shepard or Asura*, themselves!
    Need I point out that if I got into a fist fight with Hank J. Wimbledon, I’d be more worried about whether or not I’d live to tell about the fact I lost a fistfight to the guy rather than in regards to being Shit tier or not?

    Methinks people forgot who or what is meant to embody the standard class in good faith, and a part of our problem is that in addition to identity loss, we haven’t begun to think our priorities straight.

    (Although for the last part, I’d hope I’d live while feeling as relatively intact as possible on that note!)

  31. fallstar thief May 28, 2012 at 1:58 am -      #1831

    ” and yes, as long as their is an Xbox then they will continue to make Halo games.”
    nah halo will run its course till it becomes anoying like saw or cod

  32. StealthRanger May 28, 2012 at 2:03 am -      #1832

    How about Beast Wars Megatron vs Master Chief?

  33. fallstar thief May 28, 2012 at 2:12 am -      #1833

    “How about Beast Wars Megatron vs Master Chief?”
    go for it i want to see beast era megatron (proper name) cruch mc head

  34. StealthRanger May 28, 2012 at 2:14 am -      #1834

    I’ll suggest it to admin, since I doubt Hitman will post it

  35. Lightning May 28, 2012 at 5:58 am -      #1835

    @Stealth
    Stop suggesting stomp matches. It’s getting old.

  36. Evil muNki May 28, 2012 at 7:59 am -      #1836

    @Stealth

    I don’t think that would be a good match. Like Lightning said, it’s going to be a stomp.

  37. OMEGAMI September 9, 2012 at 12:34 am -      #1837

    Here we go, the UNSC has finally introduced the Rail Gun, just like Snake’s but much more compact, almost the size of an assault rifle.
    It’s the last weapon shown at the end of the video.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=1emoLBPFgqg&feature=relmfu

    Hopefully this will put both MC and Snake on even terms of weaponry, but the sniper rifle alone would make up for that but I guess people always said Rail Gun > Sniper Rifle.
    So here it is, now who is winning?
    And who was winning before the new guns?

  38. TheSorrow September 9, 2012 at 12:57 am -      #1838

    Railgun is not his standard equipment, so the point is moot.

  39. TheSorrow September 9, 2012 at 12:59 am -      #1839

    “And who was winning before the new guns?”

    Solid Snake had the advantage at range, variety of equipment, and technology.

  40. OMEGAMI September 9, 2012 at 1:17 am -      #1840

    Standard equipment is the UNSC armament.
    The AR, a pistol and grenades was considered his standard as he seems to show up with it more often, I showed that this is not the case by showing that he started missions with a different load out since Halo 1 and MC can carry more than just two weapons by logic.
    So UNSC is his load out, this are the new UNSC weapons that MC has at his disposal.

    ”Solid Snake had the advantage at range, variety of equipment, and technology.”
    Advantage at range because it was denied for MC to hold a sniper rifle just to even things, MC has equipment as well and I wouldn’t count technology after seen the spartan laser.
    And Halo 4 brings updates to those weapons, the Halo RG looks like a rifle, MGS RG is larger than Snake because it belongs to crying wolf mounted on it’s shoulder, Snake just carries it around because it packs a punch against the Gekkos.
    Snake won’t be in a good position to engage in combat if he has it on his back nor move, MC can use his RG at any range.

  41. TheSorrow September 9, 2012 at 1:28 am -      #1841

    “Advantage at range because it was denied for MC to hold a sniper rifle just to even things”

    Snake’s Railgun would have outmatched him regardless.

    “MC has equipment as well and I wouldn’t count technology after seen the spartan laser.”

    Not nearly as numerous as Snake’s though.

    “I wouldn’t count technology after seen the spartan laser.”

    It wasn’t apart of his standard layout remember?

    And Halo 4 brings updates to those weapons, the Halo RG looks like a rifle

    Not that it would matter in this fight.

    “Snake just carries it around because it packs a punch against the Gekkos.”

    What’s your point?

    “Snake won’t be in a good position to engage in combat if he has it on his back nor move, MC can use his RG at any range.”

    Hammer space.

  42. OMEGAMI September 9, 2012 at 2:24 am -      #1842

    “Snake’s Railgun would have outmatched him regardless.”
    I don’t think so, the RG seems as the only long range weapon in wich can hurt the Chief do to it’s power, the only good thing about the RG is the distance.
    MC’s sniper rifle is a long range weapon capable of killing Snake just like the RG against the Chief, now compare the two, RG is too heavy, as soon as you equip it you can see how slow Snake moves, but without the RG Snake won’t be able to 1-shot MC. Look back at MC’s sniper rifle, it packs a punch, much faster than a standard sniper rifle and it’s not as heavy as a RG (and this is a spartan we are talking about so the weight is less of an issue), so MC’s long range weapon has more potential of putting Snake down.

    ”Not nearly as numerous as Snake’s though.”
    The only equipment that really helps Snake is the Solid Eye, with it’s night vision and minimap, MC has those ones too.

    ”It wasn’t apart of his standard layout remember?”
    Exactly, ”It wasn’t standard layout” until I showed that his standard layout varies depending on the situation (when he is in contact with the UNSC armament) such as a mission in Halo 3 where he starts off with a sniper rifle and another where he starts a spartan laser.
    And a spartan laser would just bust through multiple layers of walls just to hit it’s target.

    ”Not that it would matter in this fight.”
    New weapons mean more variety in combat.
    We are suppose to base in the current incarnation right?

    ”What’s your point?”
    My point is, you see this super cool weapon that harness enough power to kill a unit that represents a big threat to you, so if you wan’t to survive then you will pick up the gun even if it wights exaggeratedly.
    Snake never took down Gekkos without a good advantage (despite gameplay but canonically no). The first encounter with them he had to hide, second encounter he was on Drebin’s tank with this Heavy Machine Gun, third encounter was evading them while running to Otacon’s helicopter, fourth was on a motorcycle where he just evaded them, fifth was in Shadow Moses where he evaded the ones in the snow and fried the one on the lab, sixth he got the rail gun wich can one shot them.
    So yeah, that’s why he picked it up.

    ”Hammer space.”
    In cutscenes (as cutscenes are more canon) let me tell you what that really sounds like, ”Kojima’s laziness”, the only equipment I’ve seen Snake carry around are the ones he is seen taking from cutscenes (you know, like MC has done), such as the M4, the hand gun and the RG, we see him take this weapons and use them in cutscenes, I don’t see him pull out the many other weapons in the game.
    The RG didn’t show on his back until the very last moment because they didn’t wan’t to include it on his back in every cutscene after receiving it.
    So only equipment seen in the cutscenes are the ones he has access to, this limits Snake’s arsenal to a Hand Gun, M4, knife and RG.

    Unless I see Snake Canonically pulling out a rocket launcher MGS 4 just like he did on MGS, it is not standard equipment.

  43. TheSorrow September 9, 2012 at 12:47 pm -      #1843

    “I don’t think so, the RG seems as the only long range weapon in wich can hurt the Chief do to it’s power, the only good thing about the RG is the distance.”

    Did you forget it hits with the same power of a tank? You probably did.

    “MC’s sniper rifle is a long range weapon capable of killing Snake just like the RG against the Chief”

    And yet Snake has a better chance of concealing himself.

    “but without the RG Snake won’t be able to 1-shot MC.”

    Uh no, did you even read the list of weapons I gave?

    “The only equipment that really helps Snake is the Solid Eye, with it’s night vision and minimap, MC has those ones too.”

    It has more than just night vision…

    “Exactly, ”It wasn’t standard layout” until I showed that his standard layout varies depending on the situation (when he is in contact with the UNSC armament) such as a mission in Halo 3 where he starts off with a sniper rifle and another where he starts a spartan laser.
    And a spartan laser would just bust through multiple layers of walls just to hit it’s target.”

    What do I care? The Admin has already specified his layout numerous times, your point is moot.

    “New weapons mean more variety in combat.
    We are suppose to base in the current incarnation right?”

    Not when standard equipment gets in the way. If you want new weapons, make a rematch, don’t try and change it here.

    “So yeah, that’s why he picked it up.”

    Big whoopedy-fucking-do, it’s still his to keep and use when he wants.

    “So only equipment seen in the cutscenes are the ones he has access to, this limits Snake’s arsenal to a Hand Gun, M4, knife and RG.”

    Bullshit, every single weapon he bought, acquired from a gun fight, or picked up is his to use. Which is effectively everything in MGS4.

    And if you really want to try and play it like that, he still gets his railgun, but don’t try and change things just because you find it unfair this late in the game.

  44. OMEGAMI September 9, 2012 at 3:01 pm -      #1844

    ”Did you forget it hits with the same power of a tank? You probably did.”
    That’s why I said it can 1-shot MC, but compare both weapons and they both have potential of killing the other in one shot, who is not in a disadvantage is MC because his long range weapon doesn’t weight as much as to slow him down and he doesn’t need to drop it to CQC.

    ”And yet Snake has a better chance of concealing himself.”
    Would like to know how Snake’s concealing works against a spartan, Spartans Carrie out infiltration and sniping missions too, for as big as they are they sure are fast and sneaky enough to loose sighting (couple that with cloak).

    ”Uh no, did you even read the list of weapons I gave?”
    The ones he doesn’t have?

    ”It has more than just night vision…”
    I also said I minimap, I have the game by the way, I’m PS3 user.

    ”What do I care? The Admin has already specified his layout numerous times, your point is moot.”
    That was after this match was made, the equipment that MC is considered to have on this match is what he has being seen using (like what you say is Snake’s case).

    ”Not when standard equipment gets in the way. If you want new weapons, make a rematch, don’t try and change it here.”
    Standard equipment was after this match, of course people will debate in favor of Snake now that MC has being strip down by the worse possible layout wich was considered to be his most canon layout while that is not the case.
    The only thing changed here was MC’s equipment for a different outcome (not that it will make things different, Halo RG or not, the sniper and assault rifle puts him on par with what Snake dastardly has).

    ”Big whoopedy-fucking-do, it’s still his to keep and use when he wants.”
    The use of the RG is to take down heavy units like tanks and Gekkos, so I wouldn’t say he can use it whenever he want’s because the RG is useless when you have a spartan at close range.
    Snake us using a weapon that is suppose to be mounted on Tank like Wolf vehicle, sort of like when MC picks up turret miniguns or missile mortars.

    ”Bullshit, every single weapon he bought, acquired from a gun fight, or picked up is his to use. Which is effectively everything in MGS4.”
    If your gonna start calling BS, I suggest you to drop the Hammer Space.
    And it’s funny because MC picks up weapons all the time, the only thing here limiting MC is the layout that was established after this match, before that MC was just like any other character, they don;t have a limit to their arsenal, I don’t see a standard layout rule for Leon (RE) when his in match.
    So why was this rule applied to MC and not other characters?
    It always was ”use what they have being seen using” unless someone specifies.
    Did admin specified MC’s layout because people doubt of what his load out is? While it’s ok for characters like Snake to use Hammer Space.

    Even logic is used in a match, Snake can’t have hammer space because it’s a non limit fallacy, and if he does get everything he has being seen acquiring (like you say), the let MC use what he has being seen acquiring as well.

  45. TheSorrow September 9, 2012 at 4:54 pm -      #1845

    “The ones he doesn’t have?”

    Last time I checked you weren’t the who gets to decide that.

    “I also said I minimap, I have the game by the way, I’m PS3 user.”

    Then you should know it has more uses than just night vision and a minimap.

    “That was after this match was made, the equipment that MC is considered to have on this match is what he has being seen using (like what you say is Snake’s case).”

    Admin’s word overrules that. Also the difference Snake and Master Chief is that Snake owns every single weapon he has, it was lent to him by a military.

    “Standard equipment was after this match, of course people will debate in favor of Snake now that MC has being strip down by the worse possible layout wich was considered to be his most canon layout while that is not the case.”

    That’s not my problem. I am just following the rules.

    “so I wouldn’t say he can use it whenever he want’s because the RG is useless when you have a spartan at close range.”

    Making the assumption that he will even find Snake in the first place.

    “Snake us using a weapon that is suppose to be mounted on Tank like Wolf vehicle, sort of like when MC picks up turret miniguns or missile mortars.”

    You’re just repeating yourself now. I don’t care, it’s his weapon to use.

    “If your gonna start calling BS, I suggest you to drop the Hammer Space.”

    Why should I? Dante has access to every weapon he’s acquired in the game, as does Kratos and they pull their weapons out of nowhere. Try contesting that on those threads and see how far you get.

    “And it’s funny because MC picks up weapons all the time, the only thing here limiting MC is the layout that was established after this match, before that MC was just like any other character, they don;t have a limit to their arsenal, I don’t see a standard layout rule for Leon (RE) when his in match.”

    Well boo hoo, go whine to the Admin if you want a change.

    “So why was this rule applied to MC and not other characters?”

    Ask the Admin, not me.

    “Snake can’t have hammer space because it’s a non limit fallacy”

    There is a limit to weapons he has.

    “the let MC use what he has being seen acquiring as well.”

    I would say he still loses.

  46. OMEGAMI September 9, 2012 at 7:13 pm -      #1846

    ”Then you should know it has more uses than just night vision and a minimap.”
    It can also work as binoculars.

    ”Admin’s word overrules that.”
    You mean the layout? Admin created this match wright, he did not mentioned anything about a layout, this match was first debated with the weapons MC is shown to have and Admin gave him the FP award for it. Admin owns this match, if he wanted MC to have the layout we are currently using, then he would have said it in the first place.
    Yeah Admin changed it but the layout for MC in this match when he created it was not his defined standard, or else he would have posted a comment notifying that MC can’t use a sniper nor a spartan laser Before giving him the award.
    So when this match was created, it was not taking MC’s standard layout into consideration.

    ”Also the difference Snake and Master Chief is that Snake owns every single weapon he has, it was lent to him by a military.”
    He can do that because MGS runs on an inventory more ridiculous than RE4, if Halo had the same than MC wouldn’t be constantly switching weapons when he runs out of ammo.
    Snake so far has hammer space and a magical way to transfer any weapon to his inventory just by calling Drebin.
    The only logical weapons I seen him taking in cutscene, and pulling out in cutscene is the hand gun, M4 and RG. We see that he doesn’t have the Hand Gun at the begging of the game, he then uses it in cutscenes after taking it in another cutscene, same goes when he gets the M4 from Drebin, and the RG from crying wolf.
    I don’t see him picking up 3 different rocket launchers and and then using them in cutscene wich can only tell us that this weapons that are in gameplay are not canon to the real Snake.
    But if the non limit fallacy ”Hammer Space” so MC has access to his armament, and seen as Snake picks up just about any weapon during gameplay, then MC has access to all the weapons he picks up as well, those would be covenant, if you want to go with non canon equipment and weapons like the invisibility cloak, then MC gets the scarab gun and I already covered that layout thing.

    ”That’s not my problem. I am just following the rules.”
    You are following a rule that does not belong to this match.

    ”Making the assumption that he will even find Snake in the first place.”
    It takes skill to find Snake, knowing MC who is a Spartan with superhuman training and augmented senses + speed, it is highly possible that Snake will be spotted before he could find a sniping position.

    ”You’re just repeating yourself now. I don’t care, it’s his weapon to use.”
    What I mean by that is that it takes us back to the RG being to heavy and all that.
    Yeah I’m kinda repeating myself, but it’s because your questions seem a bit similar.

    ”Why should I? Dante has access to every weapon he’s acquired in the game, as does Kratos and they pull their weapons out of nowhere. Try contesting that on those threads and see how far you get.”
    Like I said before, this is Admin’s match and MC used a similar Hammer Space and Admin gave him the FP award, it’s just that if Hammer Space is going to be used for one Character, at least have the courtesy to allow it to the other one, I don’t know why am I repeating myself because MC clearly had that at the begging.
    Dante and Kratos doesn’t get the same weapons every game, they drop them off and acquire new ones, this is why an incarnation must be specified first or else it’s the latest.
    And those two guys are magical, the only explanation for them carrying so much is ”magic”.
    Both MC and Snake don’t have this.

    ”Well boo hoo, go whine to the Admin if you want a change.”
    The only thing it has caused is for people to make sure they specify MC’s layout if the don’t want to get the worse layout possible, the problem is not the rule, it’s MC’s true layout behind this match.

    ”There is a limit to weapons he has.”
    If your talking about the inventory window, that window that you can empty and put totally different weapons, it still falls under non limit fallacy.
    I’ve seen that limit, it’s what he picks up, I can see Snake carrying it all, but not 50 different weapons that we haven’t seen him pick up.

    It’s a matter of debate, a debate that was left in the past.

  47. Soldier's Shadow September 9, 2012 at 7:53 pm -      #1847

    ” You mean the layout? Admin created this match wright, he did not mentioned anything about a layout, this match was first debated with the weapons MC is shown to have and Admin gave him the FP award for it. Admin owns this match, if he wanted MC to have the layout we are currently using, then he would have said it in the first place.”

    Wrong. Nothing was ever specified for Chief because the rules hadn’t manifested at this point so everything was free play from “$PL@Z0R!” to “L1height da ringz!!1!1211!”. Being that we now have rules to apply to matches, this one lacking in any when posted, we abide to what is fair here.

    “You are following a rule that does not belong to this match.”

    This match has specific rules beyond ‘Super Cool Armor’ and ‘Regenerating Shields’? I need my glasses…

    “It takes skill to find Snake, knowing MC who is a Spartan with superhuman training and augmented senses + speed, it is highly possible that Snake will be spotted before he could find a sniping position.”

    Skill to find Snake when Snake is an enemy that Master Chief has not encountered before? Snake has a camo that blends with the environment that is immune to thermal with a Railgun whereas the only closest comparison here would be the stealth Covenant units who seem to lack any real sense of stealth ability comparatively and have an inferior camo.

    While it is possible Chief can find Snake before he sets himself up, it’s just a variable, not a certainty.

    “And those two guys are magical, the only explanation for them carrying so much is ”magic”.”

    Yeah, no. Neither of them are magical. In Dante’s case, it can be argued that he has Hammerspace like Snake does as he acquires various weapons in cutscenes but is not actively seen with them throughout the game beyond that scene.

    “The only thing it has caused is for people to make sure they specify MC’s layout if the don’t want to get the worse layout possible, the problem is not the rule, it’s MC’s true layout behind this match.”

    Rules > Lawlessness.

    “I’ve seen that limit, it’s what he picks up, I can see Snake carrying it all, but not 50 different weapons that we haven’t seen him pick up.”

    I did hypothesize Snake’s standard equipment above if anyone bothered to look through the past 500 posts.

  48. TheSorrow September 9, 2012 at 8:19 pm -      #1848

    I knew you would save me Soldier! *starry eyed*

  49. OMEGAMI September 9, 2012 at 10:01 pm -      #1849

    ”Wrong. Nothing was ever specified for Chief because the rules hadn’t manifested at this point so everything was free play from “$PL@Z0R!” to “L1height da ringz!!1!1211!”. Being that we now have rules to apply to matches, this one lacking in any when posted, we abide to what is fair here.”
    This match was not won like that, every point was covered, MC got access to his equipment and so did Snake and the FP award was given to MC, people came back because Admin made a rule about MC’s, this match has a description and by logic, their is nothing here saying that layout is applied because Admin closed the deal in a match where all the weapons where available to them.
    If you throw in Leon in a match without describing the equipment, people are free to say he can pull a rocket launcher anytime.
    This match had a rule, no outside help and no limit to both characters, MC was not limited to the standard layout rule today.
    And the fact that Admin closed the deal and this being his match, tells us that he had no trouble with people saying he can use a spartan laser.
    In other words, Admin would have not applied the standard layout rule for Chief in this match.

    ”This match has specific rules beyond ‘Super Cool Armor’ and ‘Regenerating Shields’? I need my glasses…”
    I don’t get what you saying.

    ”Skill to find Snake when Snake is an enemy that Master Chief has not encountered before? Snake has a camo that blends with the environment that is immune to thermal with a Railgun whereas the only closest comparison here would be the stealth Covenant units who seem to lack any real sense of stealth ability comparatively and have an inferior camo.”
    Octocamo is a camouflage suit and not a stealth suit, Octocamo won’t be fulling people so easy as one may think, and we are talking about a spartan not a regular MGS grunt which can’t see Snake even if Snake is in front of him with a color that resembles the background but he can still be seen do to his human shape pasted on the wall.
    It only works on irregular shape surfaces.
    You expect Snake to fool MC that easy, MC doesn’t need a visor, his enhance sight alone will notice it, Snake’s best bet is to avoid contact until he finds a good position to snipe him, and that’s assuming he doesn’t run into MC while doing it or MC Snipes him first.
    And one more thing, having a gun almost as large as your body doesn’t help in stealth, especially when a Spartan is tracking you, and it can slow you down, about the time he gets into sniping (assuming he got spotted first), MC would already be in his sniping position if he decides to use that strategy.

    ”While it is possible Chief can find Snake before he sets himself up, it’s just a variable, not a certainty.”
    And viceversa.

    ”Yeah, no. Neither of them are magical. In Dante’s case, it can be argued that he has Hammerspace like Snake does as he acquires various weapons in cutscenes but is not actively seen with them throughout the game beyond that scene.”
    Wrong, Dante is not like Snake, Snake acquires various in cutscenes and is actively seen with them on other cutscenes.
    Now the weapons that Snake gets through gameplay wich he is not actively seen using during cutscenes are the ones I’m concerned.

    Like I said, this match was debated with a layout on both sides, the one that comes without saying (MC’s layout now does come without saying), what they have in their games and Admin had no problem with it.

    ”Wrong. Nothing was ever specified for Chief because the rules hadn’t manifested at this point”
    Funny because I don’t see this rules being applied except but to MC, Snake’s condition is the same as the beginning of the match, he can still pull out anything he want’s whenever he want’s.
    This match came with those rules, so don’t say it never had them, because the only rule that is applied to this match so far is the MC rule.

  50. OMEGAMI September 9, 2012 at 10:04 pm -      #1850

    ”I knew you would save me Soldier! *starry eyed*”
    Save you?
    LOL, I why would I kidnap you man?

  51. Soldier's Shadow September 10, 2012 at 12:03 pm -      #1851

    “I knew you would save me Soldier! *starry eyed*”

    *Big-Boss salute* Always a pleasure defending Snake in this match-up and serving alongside you, comrade.

    “This match was not won like that, every point was covered, MC got access to his equipment and so did Snake and the FP award was given to MC, people came back because Admin made a rule about MC’s, this match has a description and by logic, their is nothing here saying that layout is applied because Admin closed the deal in a match where all the weapons where available to them.”

    Except if you go back a bit and read Sapper’s post in the 800s or so, you can see that when all equipment that they regularly utilize come to bear, Snake’s weapons are superior to Master Chief or at best equal to his.

    People have also been debating this match because Snake lacked any logical support when it was awarded while Master Chief had a cruise load of fantards. Much information for Snake was ignored or left unmentioned while Master Chief was out of wanked or just supported by sheer numbers that looked only at physical ability and “uber duber future armor that tanks all!!!!”.

    “I don’t get what you saying.”

    This match had no rules because of the time it was posted and that shouldn’t stop us from following FP rules in this case.

    “Octocamo is a camouflage suit and not a stealth suit, Octocamo won’t be fulling people so easy as one may think, and we are talking about a spartan not a regular MGS grunt which can’t see Snake even if Snake is in front of him with a color that resembles the background but he can still be seen do to his human shape pasted on the wall.”

    Except Octocamo has fooled advanced AI systems with it’s blending abilities before in MGS4. Also, the reason MGS grunts don’t spot Snake like that is because it’s largely gameplay that makes it so as Snake has never to my knowledge pulled such a feat off right in front of an enemy’s face in a cutscene.

    “It only works on irregular shape surfaces.”

    Works perfectly fine in urban settings. It’s how he infiltrated the Middle East in the first act of MGS1.

    “You expect Snake to fool MC that easy, MC doesn’t need a visor, his enhance sight alone will notice it, Snake’s best bet is to avoid contact until he finds a good position to snipe him”

    What feats of enhanced sight does Chief have that can allow him to make out Snake’s camo so easily?

    “MC Snipes him first.”

    Standard Equipment says no sniper for Chief. Sniping with an AR with no iron sights is as effective as shooting a wall.

    “And one more thing, having a gun almost as large as your body doesn’t help in stealth, especially when a Spartan is tracking you, and it can slow you down”

    Didn’t seem to slow Snake down much in MGS4 after obtaining it in the face of enhanced super soldiers and advanced AI systems.

    “Wrong, Dante is not like Snake, Snake acquires various in cutscenes and is actively seen with them on other cutscenes. Now the weapons that Snake gets through gameplay wich he is not actively seen using during cutscenes are the ones I’m concerned.”

    And that isn’t the same or similar…how exactly?

    Also, Snake’s seen acquiring the railgun and it’s been decided that Railgun that is more powerful than an M1 Abrams > MC.

    “Like I said, this match was debated with a layout on both sides, the one that comes without saying (MC’s layout now does come without saying), what they have in their games and Admin had no problem with it.”

    There was no layout period when this match was debated. The closest you get is the stats listed and by that logic, Chief gets vehicles which is retarded.

    “Funny because I don’t see this rules being applied except but to MC, Snake’s condition is the same as the beginning of the match, he can still pull out anything he want’s whenever he want’s.”

    Snake is constricted by the rules. Octocamo is not a no limits fallacy as it has it’s clearly defined limits. Snake has his shit ton of equipment that I listed above and everyone ignores. The only things Snake needs to win this match are the Octocamo, Solid Eye and Railgun which he has here.

    “This match came with those rules, so don’t say it never had them, because the only rule that is applied to this match so far is the MC rule.”

    The FP Rules didn’t come to the site until after this match. How many times do I have to say it?

    FP Debating Rules: Published on July 23, 2009, by admin – Posted in Stuff

    Published on September 22, 2007, by admin – Posted in MC vs.

    The Rules came after this match, which had no rules to regulate it.

  52. OMEGAMI September 10, 2012 at 9:34 pm -      #1852

    ”Except if you go back a bit and read Sapper’s post in the 800s or so, you can see that when all equipment that they regularly utilize come to bear, Snake’s weapons are superior to Master Chief or at best equal to his.”
    I’ve seen no Sniper Rifle in MGS that has a faster ballistic velocity and power than the Halo Sniper Rifle (And the Rail Gun is a mounted weapon not a rifle), and if you want Halo 4 equipment to come into play, you should check the video I posted wich shows the UNSC weapon update, wich includes a RG the size if a rifle.
    The Spartan Laser is slow, but it packs more punch than any weapon on MGS4, it can go through multiple Wraiths and Scorpion Tanks all lined up together (thank forge for that) and out of gameplay has an even better story for it.
    ARs suck, that I admit, Halo weapons only get better when you look at the most technological advance arsenals, but the real weapon here is the Spartan.

    ”This match had no rules because of the time it was posted and that shouldn’t stop us from following FP rules in this case.”
    You have no way to judge Admin’s intentions of a layout when he made this match, it was before the rules, if it was now, it probably would have had a better description than the one before, but you are debating a match that was not build around taking them into consideration, there by you cannot be most certain of what the match description would truly apply now.
    A rematch, on a time after the rules would clear things out.
    For now this is a match that was not meant to be judge by them.
    But I will play along if you want because I’m certain that MC still wins (without weapons is also an option, but the rules).

    ”Except Octocamo has fooled advanced AI systems with it’s blending abilities before in MGS4. Also, the reason MGS grunts don’t spot Snake like that is because it’s largely gameplay that makes it so as Snake has never to my knowledge pulled such a feat off right in front of an enemy’s face in a cutscene.”
    Advance AI systems?
    You mean those Gekkos who though Snake was a crate of watermelons?
    The Gekkos who ignored looking around, to see snake hugging the rubble with his face clearly showing even by thermo vision?
    The Octocamo as shown in gameplay is the same during cutscenes, the fact that we never seen Snake fool anybody (human, not AI), is because it sucks at a certain range, at long range it blends better because it’s harder to see the human shape and details, on irregular surfaces it’s much better because it’s hard to determine the shape unlike flat surfaces, it works better if the terrain is under low visibility conditions such as fog, darkness, rain, smoke, including the heat of combat will make it hard for someone to focus and see it, etc…
    But this suit has a range, and it takes distance to and the mentioned situations for it to work effectively, and in 90% of the cases that I had to use camouflage (I used it always) I was saved by the humans horrible gameplay AI.
    I’m not done, the weapons you carry don’t have effect on the camouflage.
    And Snake wears a vest, this vest only has one color (You can change it but that’s gameplay), this vest does not change color when you go into a camouflage, so I have this snow white background with a dark vest covering my 40% of my body while I’m holding a RG that is black and almost as big as my body wich means that almost 70% of my body is not blended with the back ground and yet my status says that I’m 99% camouflaged with the surface. I know that Snake prefers to put on a vest that will resemble most of the terrains color before the missions starts, and guess what, he was wearing a black colored vest on a desert terrain.
    So, show me a cutscene of it fulling a person, because even Kojima knew that this camouflage was heavily based on gameplay and that putting it into cutscenes against human targets won’t work well.
    Laughing Octopus had the only suit that was perfect in camouflage, and Snake’s suit is based on a ripoff of that one, the only good camo Snake has is the mask and that one comes from Laughing Octopus.

    ”Works perfectly fine in urban settings. It’s how he infiltrated the Middle East in the first act of MGS1.”
    You mean MGS4, I already covered what I have to say about the Octocamo.

    ”What feats of enhanced sight does Chief have that can allow him to make out Snake’s camo so easily?”
    The fact that Octocamo is only effective in certain conditions wich are not always present and that a human can snuff him out and a Spartan has augmentations that give him faster thinking, better eyesight than a normal human, better hearing and the visor helps even more.
    Like I said, the only thing Snake fooled was Gekkos who don’t appear to have good AI, this is MC and he is human (but augmented so he is above human capabilities) and you assume he is going to stomp a crate of watermelons.

    ”Standard Equipment says no sniper for Chief. Sniping with an AR with no iron sights is as effective as shooting a wall.”
    He doesn’t need to snipe, Snake’s chances here is to get to a sniping position before he gets spotted by MC and has to engage in closer combat (where the Halo AR won’t be used as a sniping weapon), and I thing the sights are holographic or something, the visor helps on adding a marker on the HUD.
    Judging just how great marksman Spartans are, MC won’t have trouble using this disgrace of a rifle to hit Snake.

    ”And that isn’t the same or similar…how exactly?”
    That Dante, Kratos and Snake have a cutscene of them acquiring weapons and a cutscene of them using those weapons they acquired, Snake acquires weapons out of cutscene that are not backed up by other cutscenes, there by it’s debatable that if he actually had them.
    I can play the game just with the HG, M4, and RG wich are all weapons we see him getting and proving with cutscenes that he still truly owns them.

    ”Octocamo is not a no limits fallacy as it has it’s clearly defined limits.”
    Those limits are very short indeed, and I’m not calling it a non limits fallacy, that would be hammer space.

    ”Snake has his shit ton of equipment that I listed above and everyone ignores.”
    You expect me to take Hammer Space serous?

    ”The only things Snake needs to win this match are the Octocamo, Solid Eye and Railgun which he has here.”
    I’ve covered the Octocamo.
    Solid Eye is not impressive because MC’s visor has similar traits plus weapon holographic markers and more, except for the fact that the Solid Eye can tell displays a persons emotions.
    The RG is heavy and won’t work against a speeding target like MC unless Snake is in a long range position (not like MC would walk into the open like Snake does in some occasions, Crying Wolf for example) the RG will slow him down onto acquiring a sniping position and will not help the camo at all.

    ”The FP Rules didn’t come to the site until after this match. How many times do I have to say it?”
    You need to say it no more, I just repeat myself to often.

    ”The Rules came after this match, which had no rules to regulate it.”
    In other words, this match doesn’t have an updated description, and their is no way to assume what Admin had in mind as or a description.

  53. ZomBaron Somebody November 20, 2012 at 8:25 pm -      #1853

    Every now and then, I like to come to either this or Raiden vs Wesker, and just lament…

  54. TheSorrow June 9, 2014 at 4:58 am -      #1854

    Bringing back all the Snake classics, because fuck you I want to.

    I’ve seen no Sniper Rifle in MGS that has a faster ballistic velocity and power than the Halo Sniper Rifle (And the Rail Gun is a mounted weapon not a rifle)

    Yeah no, the Railgun that Snake uses is most certainly not a mounted weapon, he holds it in his hand. Not that it matters, you are basically arguing semantics at this point, it’s still faster.

    if you want Halo 4 equipment to come into play, you should check the video I posted wich shows the UNSC weapon update, wich includes a RG the size if a rifle.

    What’s it’s velocity, and how far is it’s range? The wiki says Short/Medium.

    The Spartan Laser is slow-
    Slow, a lackluster scope, and has a very telling laser sight that compromises your position.

    it can go through multiple Wraiths and Scorpion Tanks all lined up together (thank forge for that) and out of gameplay has an even better story for it.

    You say it has a better story out of gameplay, what’s the story?

    You have no way to judge Admin’s intentions of a layout when he made this match, it was before the rules, if it was now, it probably would have had a better description than the one before, but you are debating a match that was not build around taking them into consideration, there by you cannot be most certain of what the match description would truly apply now.

    Any ruling that Admin makes is retroactive. Just because it was made before the rules were set in place, doesn’t mean we should continue to debate like they don’t exist.

    at long range it blends better because it’s harder to see the human shape and details, on irregular surfaces it’s much better because it’s hard to determine the shape unlike flat surfaces

    That’s the crucial point, if Snake proceeds to keep his distance from Master Chief, he will have no problems staying undetected.

    But this suit has a range, and it takes distance to and the mentioned situations for it to work effectively, and in 90% of the cases that I had to use camouflage (I used it always) I was saved by the humans horrible gameplay AI.

    Difference between you and Snake is that the latter can use it to it’s optimum efficiency.

    And Snake wears a vest, this vest only has one color (You can change it but that’s gameplay)

    So you are saying Snake wouldn’t be aware of this flaw and not change?

    The fact that Octocamo is only effective in certain conditions wich are not always present and that a human can snuff him out and a Spartan has augmentations that give him faster thinking, better eyesight than a normal human, better hearing and the visor helps even more.

    All of which you would have to assume that Snake would put himself in a position where his Octocamo wasn’t being used in a efficient manner. Snake isn’t so cocky about his camo that he would walk out into the open without taking into account of human depth perception.

    I can play the game just with the HG, M4, and RG wich are all weapons we see him getting and proving with cutscenes that he still truly owns them.

    With even that, it would be enough to make a convincing argument for Snake, but I prefer to give a little bit more to match his certain style of combat.

    Those limits are very short indeed, and I’m not calling it a non limits fallacy, that would be hammer space.

    The limit to hammer space is what guns he acquires in game, we aren’t saying that any thing he picks up will just disappears automatically. Regardless, in cases such as Master Chief who has been given a much leaner limit to his weapons, it would be “fair” to meter out the odds.

    The RG is heavy and won’t work against a speeding target like MC unless Snake is in a long range position

    We are never actually told how heavy the Railgun is, but I never see Snake straining to hold or carry the Railgun either.

    In other words, this match doesn’t have an updated description, and their is no way to assume what Admin had in mind as or a description.

    All rules are retroactive as I have said before.

  55. Rookie December 8, 2014 at 2:46 am -      #1855

    Both opponents have good chances to win, hard to choose.

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