Ghost Rider Vs Kharn

Ghost Rider Vs Kharn

Kicking off with the first post of 2009, we have Ghost Rider against Kharn the Betrayer. Needless to say, massive carnage would set the tone for this battle.

While this battle would endure for some time, in the end, I think Kharn would gain the upperhand.

What do you think?

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79 Comments on "Ghost Rider Vs Kharn"

  1. Space marine January 1, 2009 at 1:25 am -      #1

    This is more like it. Kharn vs GR without lobo or thor. Kharn wins this one by a lot.
    He has no soul, He surrendered it for Khorne and that is why Kharn will win.

  2. HeroofTime85 January 1, 2009 at 3:46 am -      #2

    Kharn would easily win this. No contest.

  3. KiraMasteroftheNote January 1, 2009 at 4:07 am -      #3

    Kharn. No matter of much of a God moding f#ggot he is. Its still Kharn.

  4. L-W January 1, 2009 at 11:46 am -      #4

    You have issues that need to be rectified, immediately.

  5. Matapiojo January 2, 2009 at 9:47 am -      #5

    Awww, this fight was cycled through way too quick. Anyways….

    This link is to the previous tag match between Kharn and Lobo fighting against Thor and Ghost Rider. I explained Ghosties capabilities and proposed how they would match up agains his oponents.

    factpile.com/archives/1197#comments

    I do not see this fight able to come to an end. It is one of those rare situations that create an endless loop. Both combatants have power that grows exponentially. Both powers are opposite to one another.

    This fight is like Ying to Yang.

    Should the loop be somehow broken, it would tip in favor of Ghost Rider. This is because of the very nature of their powers.

    Kharn’s supernatural abilities (Space Marine capabilities aside) are granted by Khorne to protect and excel in combat. The Rider’s powers are granted to cleanse and rectify what has been wronged. Of the two, the Rider’s cosmic role would prove to be the more advantageous.

    But again, that is unlikely. What this fight will do is provide a means for both beings to keep growing into Omnipotence, to oppose one another into eternity.

  6. Space marine January 2, 2009 at 10:06 pm -      #6

    ………………….Wow……fire……..That would just annoy kharn, Before he goes to cut GR in half with his chainaxe.

  7. Matapiojo January 3, 2009 at 12:53 am -      #7

    “………………….Wow……fire……..That would just annoy kharn, Before he goes to cut GR in half with his chainaxe.”

    Not even the mighty Gorechild can cause permanent damage to the Rider.

  8. Space marine January 3, 2009 at 1:22 am -      #8

    Ripping GR in half could be possible for Kharn,
    Like when you open a pickle jar and it just gives way from the pressure and pops.
    Thats whats gonna happen to GR.

  9. Space marine January 3, 2009 at 8:07 am -      #9

    But then could Kharn Banish GR to the warp or something, Or turn into agron…..
    I’d like to see that much blood burst when agron steps forth.

  10. Space marine January 3, 2009 at 8:36 am -      #10

    What The Hell!?
    Does everyone post just before i do????

  11. Matapiojo January 3, 2009 at 9:27 am -      #11

    “Ripping GR in half could be possible for Kharn,
    Like when you open a pickle jar and it just gives way from the pressure and pops.
    Thats whats gonna happen to GR.”

    I have no doubts that Gorechild will slice through the rider. Hell, maybe even do some actual damage due to the soul drinking properties. The Rider will simply reconstitute himself in mere moments.

    Due to his enhance powers in Kharn’s presence, his healing properties would be almost instant. The Damage Kharn would inflict would look as if he was harming……well……a ghost.

    To clarify a bit about Hellfire. This most infamous of flames is mystical. It is not mere fire. Ghost Rider has complete control of this force. Hellfire can burn hotter than a supernova, or it could not burn at all. It all depends what the Rider wants it to do. Further, it could do physical damage or scorch the spirit with even more intensity that it could ever hope to achieve in a material context.

    The rider can fashion this Hellfire to any sort of weapon he wants. He has unleashed it in the form of a breath attack, channel it through numerous objects (including his chain), shaped it into a scything blade, and even released it in a mighty blast that has leveled an entire city block. This is the same sort of power that will be increased a thousand-fold (and keep growing exponentially within their battle) in the presence of Kharn.

    This is NOT a cut and dry fight with a clear victor. Like I said, this will be a fight that prolongs to eternity with each of the combatants growing into omnipotence.

  12. Space marine January 3, 2009 at 9:38 am -      #12

    Anyway…….ITS MY BIRTHDAY BABY!!!!! :P :P :P:P
    YAY. 14, FINALLY.

  13. Space marine January 3, 2009 at 10:10 am -      #13

    And, it depends if Kharn does get caught in the chain.
    Kharn can move in excess of 100km/ph.

  14. Matapiojo January 3, 2009 at 2:12 pm -      #14

    “And, it depends if Kharn does get caught in the chain.
    Kharn can move in excess of 100km/ph.”

    That is an advantage Kharn possesses, no question about it, but would Ghost Rider need to hit anything when he can turn absolutely everything surrounding himself to utter molten mush? Hellfire burning hotter than a Supernova is enough to decimate the mighty Power Armour in mere moments. This kind of damage could even put Khorne’s protection to the test.

  15. L-W January 3, 2009 at 7:23 pm -      #15

    At continuous Supernova temperatures, Ghost Rider will be making ‘Pop-Kharn’…For the battle…

    Get it…

    Forget it…

  16. HeroofTime85 January 3, 2009 at 9:52 pm -      #16

    I got one question, would GR’s fire be cosidered using magic. That’s how it considers it on Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. In that case Kharn would be immune. I got something to say depending on your answer.

  17. Matapiojo January 3, 2009 at 9:55 pm -      #17

    LOLZ

    I see wut u did dar!

  18. AlphaCommando January 3, 2009 at 10:13 pm -      #18

    …wow, tho It did cause a reasonable snicker….

  19. Space marine January 3, 2009 at 11:45 pm -      #19

    My meta riley vs Masterchief one was funnier……

  20. L-W January 4, 2009 at 2:32 am -      #20

    I’m Jewish! When have you ever seen a Jewish comedian?!

    Forget what I just said.

  21. Space marine January 4, 2009 at 4:12 am -      #21

    No…..I’ll just keep my good old Ceramite and black carpace.

  22. Space marine January 4, 2009 at 8:31 am -      #22

    Since this is a post that isn’t full of halo fanboys v| But rather intellectual beings.
    I.E Covies just glass the planet, Halo PWNS THEM Ect.

    I would like you all to join in the Chimera Vs Convent thread because it only has 2 posts so far. one is mine the other is Matapojo’s.
    ——-
    And I will Appreciate it if you do take part L-W,AlphaCommando and Mata.
    Possibly Diana or Herooftime85.

  23. Matapiojo January 4, 2009 at 11:35 am -      #23

    “I’m Jewish! When have you ever seen a Jewish comedian?!

    Forget what I just said.”

    You’re just on a roll, man.

  24. Tim January 4, 2009 at 3:14 pm -      #24

    Happy birthday for yesterday Space Marine! I don’t know too much about either of the characters here but based on what people have said i’d probably have to give it to Ghost Rider… just.

  25. Baron Somebody January 4, 2009 at 4:58 pm -      #25

    “And I will Appreciate it if you do take part L-W,AlphaCommando and Mata.
    Possibly Diana or Herooftime85.”

    You’d rather take Herooftime than me? Damn man…

  26. Space marine January 4, 2009 at 9:06 pm -      #26

    Hey Baron somebody You wern’t here yet and kinda forgot about you :/
    You should come to chimera vs covnant as well. And Marche should too.

    And since your are all american It’s my birthday over there now,I was born on the 4th. :)

  27. Space marine January 5, 2009 at 1:30 am -      #27

    ;) um……never heard of someone like that. Nice to meet you.
    The chimera vs covnant thread is already here.

  28. L-W January 5, 2009 at 2:35 am -      #28

    Me? American?

    When did that happen?

  29. flyboy51 January 5, 2009 at 9:13 pm -      #29

    ok. the totally unstoppable people are getting really annoying (Kharn). give me a break.

  30. Space marine January 5, 2009 at 9:42 pm -      #30

    wait……Americans are dumb, Either Aussie or British or something like that.
    Should my Kharn gravatar be up by now?

  31. AlphaCommando January 5, 2009 at 11:07 pm -      #31

    Yes, lets generalize about Americans, which is hilariously ironic….
    Considering I live in America now….I always find that offensive.

    Anyway; Ghost Rider has this bagged, he is the more powerful opposite to Kharn.

  32. Space marine January 6, 2009 at 12:17 am -      #32

    Thats a stereotype. :)

  33. Space marine January 6, 2009 at 2:11 am -      #33

    “Aside from that, he has the protection of Khorne, which negates any magic source directed at him.”

    Matapojo, lawl thats what you said in link vs Kharn and so since GR flames are magical It would be useless.
    Did your own arguement just fall on top of you?
    lolz

  34. Matapiojo January 6, 2009 at 7:56 am -      #34

    “ok. the totally unstoppable people are getting really annoying (Kharn). give me a break.”

    You havent been reading, have you? This is pretty much a fight that argues (maybe even proves) against the very statement you just made. There are many beings that are capable of defeating the Betrayer. Ghost Rider just may be one of them.

    It all depends on the tools that are brought to the table for a match against Kharn.

  35. =[BF]=JimmieRox January 6, 2009 at 9:30 am -      #35

    “wait……Americans are dumb, Either Aussie or British or something like that.”-Space Marine

    Really? Aussies are more intelligent than Americans? Obviously we British are amazing, or at least we were before the current degeneration of a substantial portion of our population into little more than overweight idiots with Burburry caps and a bottle of White Lightning or greedy money grubbing investment bankers!

  36. L-W January 6, 2009 at 9:49 am -      #36

    Amateur social eugenics are for obvious amateurs.

  37. Space marine January 6, 2009 at 9:55 am -      #37

    weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
    Apologetic me :(

  38. Matapiojo January 6, 2009 at 11:15 am -      #38

    ““Aside from that, he has the protection of Khorne, which negates any magic source directed at him.”

    Matapojo, lawl thats what you said in link vs Kharn and so since GR flames are magical It would be useless.
    Did your own arguement just fall on top of you?
    lolz”

    No, it did not. I am well aware of Kharn’s capabilities.

    While I boasted that attribute on the Link fight (due to a particularly bullheaded debator), the fact is that Kharn’s protection is not absolute. Particularly strong supernatural phenomena can and do affect the berzerker.

    Mind you, I do not believe anything in Link’s repertoire is strong enough to pierce through Khorne’s blessing. However, this doesnt mean that other beings oput there do not possess the amount of juice needed.

    In their initial moments of confrontation, the Rider’s mystical attacks would indeed be futile. This will not be the case as the battle continues to be waged. Like I’ve stated before, both combatant’s powers will grow exponentially. The Rider’s attacks will indeed become MUCH stronger. There will come a point where nothing Kharn has will stop them.

    The only thing that will be able to keep the Betrayer standing after that point is reached is Khorne’s will for bringing his champion back for more.

  39. Baron Somebody January 6, 2009 at 12:38 pm -      #39

    @Matapiojo

    If Sir Dan were to fight Kharn, would the drumsticks work on him? Just wondering

  40. Matapiojo January 6, 2009 at 3:19 pm -      #40

    @Baron Somebody

    Im inclined to say no simply cause I find it ridiculous.

    However, keeping the spirit of healthy debate in mind, I would have to say that I dont know. It takes supernatural attacks of god/near-gods to harm Kharn, but I have not player Dan’s games to know the strength of the silly drumstick.

    I think that unless Dan is a Deity, or the drumstick comes from a deity then no.

  41. Baron Somebody January 6, 2009 at 7:11 pm -      #41

    @Matapiojo

    Well, the drumsticks came from a witch…and when you beat the game he gets ascended into the Hall of Heroes which is the place where all the greatest heroes go

  42. L-W January 6, 2009 at 8:15 pm -      #42

    So, not a deity then.

  43. Matapiojo January 6, 2009 at 9:55 pm -      #43

    Yea, witchcraft simply does not have the juice to deal with Kharn.

  44. Baron Somebody January 6, 2009 at 10:13 pm -      #44

    So basically Dan would be nothing but a squished aluminum can with a golden shield next to him?

  45. admin January 7, 2009 at 9:42 am -      #45

    @Diana – You’re gravatar seems to be working fine now.

  46. AJN January 16, 2009 at 1:23 pm -      #46

    Here’s a tough competition but the winner is clear.
    Kharn!

    Why? Well, I don’t know, maybe because he’s dedicated his soul to the chaos gods!!
    Meaning, no soul for GR to fry.

    And then there’s also the tiny fact that Chaos Marines can summon an incarnation of their gods to help them. Then again, he won’t even need to do that cause his psychic abilities will have left GR begging on his knees.

    Then there is the fact that GR has 2 revert 2 his normal self. But Kharn is like an ever-ready battery.
    And last but not the least, GR has loved ones. People who he wants 2 protect. Not a hindrance for Kharn!

  47. The One Sin January 16, 2009 at 7:01 pm -      #47

    Metpiojo:”Im inclined to say no simply cause I find it ridiculous.”

    Sure its ridiculous, but effective. I’m sure someone said gunpowder was ridiculous when it was invented lol.

  48. L-W January 16, 2009 at 8:16 pm -      #48

    I wouldn’t really consider one of the most valuable technological trade resources between China, the Islamic world and Europe of the ancient pan continental silk trade route comparable to a magical drumstick.

  49. Space marine January 16, 2009 at 9:55 pm -      #49

    Well, Those drumsticks are ridiculous….Hmmmmm I wonder what would happen If I ate one of Dan’s drumsticks?

  50. Space marine January 17, 2009 at 9:52 pm -      #50

    What? which one? darn can you see it, I can’t.

  51. The One Sin January 21, 2009 at 9:24 pm -      #51

    “I wouldn’t really consider one of the most valuable technological trade resources between China, the Islamic world and Europe of the ancient pan continental silk trade route comparable to a magical drumstick.”

    Neither would I but thats not the point I was trying to make.

  52. Jwlynas January 26, 2009 at 6:29 am -      #52

    Well now, how did I miss this match up?

    While I’m forced to agree that Ghost rider has all the advantages (Now Ghost Rider Versus Doom Rider, thats a match-up) Its not entirely one way.

    However, I’m mostly confused as to the occasional “Kharn can turn into Angron” things I see here and there. A daemon prince, sure, I can allow that. But Kharn can’t turn into his primarch any more than I could turn into my own father.

    A Daemon prince of comparable strength, absolutely. But not the man himself.

    And with that said, lets consider a few things

    Ghost rider, a demon, or fallen angel, depending on the writer, sent out into the world to punish the wicked and reclaim the souls that escape hell.

    Kharn, a vengeful Champion of a God, sent to claim the skulls of any and all living beings in this or any other universe.

    …I’m not convinced their power levels are all that different. Zarathos (The demon behind the rider) could likely be compared to a high ranking Bloodthirster in terms of power (Not quite Agg’rath, but not far off). Kharn can, and has, rivalled that in the past.

    It all comes down to which one dies first. Kharn isn’t going down, and Neither Rider. Danny ketch/Johnny Blaze on the other hand… The Rider (Last i checked) wasn’t able to hold to the mortal world indefinitely. This might have changed since, but if thats the case, Kharn can once more come out on top.

  53. Matapiojo January 26, 2009 at 9:30 am -      #53

    Indeed.

    First, the issue with Angron. Angron was raised to Deamon Prince Primarch status by Khorne. This being of immense power was defeated at the first war for Armageddon by a surgical strike of 100 Grey Knights (held in reserve as a hidden weapon by the Imperium in the battle) specifically equipped to deal with this threat.

    Angron was then banished into the Warp for 100 years. This means that this powerful being is now immaterial. Kharn would just act as a daemonvessel to his Primarch, much like all champions of Chaos can be the hosts of Greater Daemons that are attracted to their feats of strength. In essence, Kharn doesnt transform into Angron. He is replaced by Angron for a short while.

    Yes, the Daemonvessel is killed in the process, but the Chaos gods resurect their children at will within the Warp. This is why the Imperium of man has been fighting the same guys for 10,000 years. Things in the Warp just work in crazy ways. For all Kharn would know, he would just appear on dome Daemon-world right after Angron returns to the Warp post manifestation.

    Second, the Ghost Rider issue. The story of the Spirit of Vengeance is VERY convoluted. However, the latest two creative teams have done a great job of making sense of it all. Therefore, the current volume of the dark hero is indeed canon and the best example to have in this fight particularly.

    Ghost Rider is NOT Zarathos. That was a ploy of Mephisto to gain control of the weapon that is Ghost Rider. Zarathos was indeed within Johnny Blaze, but he was just a passenger on a much more powerful train.

    The Spirit of Vengeance is one of many across the globe. These beings are created by Heaven to act as the gatekeepers. They are the ones to keep the evil souls in the material realm in check, as well as guard the pearly gates from all threats. They also grant “redemption” to those who would harm others. This is done in part by physical punishment, or worse spiritual retribution (pennance stare).

    This particular Ghost Rider is said to be the most powerful of them all. He seems to be the pet-project of Zadkiel, an Angel that is trying to usurp the throne of Heaven. Pretty much the second comming of Lucifer (Whom the Rider defeated in this latest volume). His covert imbuing of Blaze was the thing that allowed Mephisto to insert Zarathos as well. It is yet to be revealed the true identity of the being that inhabits the body of John.

    Throughout the story of the Rider, it has been the human host (Johnny Blaze), the one that has kept the power in check. Despite this limitation, Ghost Rider has demonstrated an ability to gain power in order to exert vengeance. The more rotten the oponent, the more powerful abilities he has demonstrated.

    Like I mentioned above, the Rider recently ROFLSTOMPED one of the most powerful heroes in Earth 616, Dr. Strange. The doctor later informed the others of the Illuminati that ghost Rider had the power to stop Hulk’s rampage across New York, but that he would only defend the inocent. Which of course, they were not.

    Right now, John has acted as an anchor to the Spirit of Vengeance. Limiting his capabilities and filtering through just enough power to get the job done. I think that in the presence of a being that has 10,000 years worth of mass-murder accumulated, the Rider would be simply too much for blaze to contain. This thing will come through at full force in order to defeat the Betrayer.

    This of course would fuel Kharn into a full blown frenzy. Going into combat against an immortal being without any weapon/ability to take him out could very possibly make HIM grow in power as the battle heats up (no pun intended). This is why I think these two beings will fight for an eternity growing into omnipotence.

    However, should a winner be determined, I definitley think it will be ghost Rider. After all, of the two, Kharn is the only one that cannot produce detonations that surpass nuclear blasts…

  54. MJSC STARWARS January 27, 2009 at 12:14 am -      #54

    Ghostrider wins. I don’t know anything about this Kharn guy, but I can tell from the lame reasons as to why he would win that he’s overestimated by his fans.

  55. Matapiojo January 27, 2009 at 12:28 pm -      #55

    “I can tell from the lame reasons as to why he would win that he’s overestimated by his fans.”

    Not at all. If it wasn’t for the Rider’s unnatural ability to have enough “juice” to punish the wicked, this would be a fairly easy win for Kharn.

    I can asure you that us Kharn fanatics are very well justified.

  56. MJSC STARWARS January 27, 2009 at 2:36 pm -      #56

    I’ll admit that Kharn seems powerful from what I hear about him from certain people, such as yourself. I just can’t stand the people who are like “Kharn wins because he’s Kharn and he’s from Warhammer.” You don’t seem like that type of person Matapiojo. You seem like the type that at least cares about all the facts before sayin’ which one would win. Hope you understand what I mean. Ghostrider still wins, by the way. Haha.

  57. Matapiojo January 27, 2009 at 2:49 pm -      #57

    Definitley, mate.

    I like to think that this is the main reason why we come to this site. To have friendly debates with our peers regarding characters/stories that appeal to us individually.

    You will notice that most of the people that return to post their views are generaly decent folk that think before they type. The individuals that resort to the type of behavior you refer to (known as Fanboys/girls in this comunity), tend to post only a handful of times before they tire of not having others agree with them.

    There are of course instances where we will see smart Fanboys (the ones that despite all reason wont budge in their opinions) slip through the cracks, but we have to remember that every one of us is a Fanboy to some degree.

    In any case, I certainly understand what you’re getting at.

  58. Jwlynas January 27, 2009 at 3:40 pm -      #58

    Ah, wasn’t aware of the new state of affairs. Reeks a little of “We want Spawn Versus Ghost rider match-ups to end our way”, but thats the writers, not you.

    I saw Ghost rider beat Dr Strange, and indeed the implication that he could take down hulk. I wasn’t aware of whether or not Mephisto had been beaten. Last i saw he was in 300+ pieces.

    @MJSC – This would be more of a fanboy rant if Ghost rider hadn’t originally been my favourite Marvel Character. heck, i got into 40K because of Doom Rider, not Kharn.

    But the dangers in Kharns world are that more powerful. Dr Strange would have little chance against the psychers there, The Hulk would be one of millions of huge green menaces. A big threat, one to make Ghrazkull (Big space ork boss man) worried. But nonetheless.

    WIth all this, Kharn is still a danger to any and all armies. He’s not going down without a fight. And less we forget how often Ghost riders power fluctuates. Lets not forget that the only reason Mephisto escaped hell was because Ghost rider was there to be tricked.

    Anyway. Bottom line. Both of them are my favourites. if I had to be objective, I’d say good old Ghosty wins, but only by the scantest of margins, and as it’d be in comic form, it would end with Kharns fist, clenching a burning skull, bursting forth from the ground, and mephistons luaghter echoing through the skies with an altogether more ominous laughter echoing behind his.

  59. Matapiojo January 27, 2009 at 4:24 pm -      #59

    @Jwlynas – “Lets not forget that the only reason Mephisto escaped hell was because Ghost rider was there to be tricked.”

    Indeed. This is possibly the single item that makes the Ghost Rider a decent character in terms of story possibilities. How interesting would it be to have an uber powerful anti-hero systematically neutralyzing all villains. Not much for a story there.

    Johnny Blaze is meant to be an anchor. The thing that balances this potent being manifesting in the mortal realm. The thing about blaze is that he is extremely gullible, and whats worst, he has more control over the Rider than he ever had. Nowadays, we have not really seen an instance where the Rider and Blaze are separate entities except for when he went to a prison looking for one dude.

    Even then, the interaction was so subtle that the Ghost Writters column still gets questions and coments on how “crappy” the pannels looked. They didn’t realize that Blaze was trying to contain the Rider’s urges to surface and punish all the inmates for their evils. The artist drew Blaze’s head with some flames, but never reverting to the Rider’s full form.

    Another example of the two separate entities being underlined was on the events of WWH, where the Rider wanted to continue hunting down Satan while blaze wanted to go help with the Hulk in New York. Johnny managed to assert his control again, and went to try to stop the Hulk. Silly man. He got schooled hard.

    The the Rider surfaced, blew up an entire block, and simply rode off to find Satan. This is where Strange made his statement regarding the Rider’s power.

    Speaking of which. You are incorrect on the actual “passenger” he brought out of hell. The being in question was actualy Satan, not Mephisto. Marvel has recognized the two separate characters and stated that though powerful, Mephisto does not come close to Satan’s power. Sinse the material realm was never meant to contain the essence of one so powerful, Satan’s essence was split into 666 shards that inhabited the bodies of people that just passed over.

    Satan revealed to the rider that each time he killed a weak shard, its power would be transfered onto another of the shards. Sinse he couldn’t comit suicide (cause suicides go to hell by default), he tricked Blaze YET AGAIN. By Blaze killing the shards, Satan’s last shard would be restored into full power. The Rider recognized the folly of the situation, but there was no alternative to returning Satan to hell. Therefore, he commited to the ballsy move of killing all shards one by one until it came down to a final battle with the Lord of Hell, whom he beat.

    This is the single most important example of how Ghost Rider’s power grows in order to excert vengeance.

    He

    Defeated

    Satan

    ‘Nuff said.

    ———————————

    We also share the fact that I too was pulled into Chaos over any other army due to the Daemons, and in no small part, Doomrider. This guy was essentially Ghost Rider (my favorite character, and the one that got me into comics) with a different look and a mite larger margin for unpredictability. I still want to convert a Ghost Rider model using Doomrider’s rules (same for Wolverine being a Chaos Lord with a pair of Lightning Claws), but the previous Codex was better suited to do this. It would be hard to justify either of those characters in the new Codex.

    Maybe someday…

  60. KiraMasteroftheNote February 7, 2009 at 12:22 pm -      #60

    Wouldn’t Kharn just have to wait until day to kill Ghost Rider? Wait until hes vulnerable then kill him. Also he could fight Mephistopheles and kill him then take on GR without his immortality abilities. I’ve read a great deal about the Ghost Rider and I don’t think he could take on Kharn.

  61. Matapiojo February 9, 2009 at 10:25 am -      #61

    First, you are WAY off on GR being active only at night. That fact alone suggest that as much as you “read”, you didn’t seem to read nearly enough.

    Second, Mephistopheles has NOTHING to do with the GR and his abilities, much less his immortality. This was an epic lie the demon used to dupe Blaze into his service.

    Third, I am VERY well read in GR as I own pretty much all source materials involving the character. I can assure you that the story is so convoluted that most web research sources are innacurate (as yours clearly proved to be).

    The latest volume of the ongoing series is by far the most comprehensive continuity reference. If you are not up to date on the current volume, don’t even try posting an argument in this match.

    Additionally, the older GR volumes portrayed him to be a lower level hero, comparable to Spider-man, Blade, Human Torch, etc. The current volume’s plot places GR’s power at a level around Thor, Hulk, Dr. Strange, etc.

  62. Thepocalypse February 10, 2009 at 7:04 pm -      #62

    I’m really not sure who would win this battle, but imagine how immense the penance stare would be if it was used on Kharn. All those innocents senselessly, thoughtlessly slaughtered. Whole worlds massacred. The stare could be like ten thousand nukes in your head if Kharn didn’t use psychic ability to block it in time.

  63. Expertimp March 12, 2009 at 11:33 am -      #63

    I don’t know enough about Kharn to really give a full opinion but based off of what I have read so far the presence stare would not effect Kharn.. So as much as i’d like for GR to win this I think Kharn would win easily from what i’ve read about him from these comments.

    Winner: Kharn

  64. sangheli_special_ops_elite April 11, 2009 at 12:29 am -      #64

    yeah your right kharn would win if they fight but he wouldn’t fight he would take one look at him and say damn someone already got him i

  65. Kenny C. November 7, 2009 at 3:18 pm -      #65

    Gotta go with Kharn and his Khrone Blessed weapons.

  66. orpheus12 November 17, 2009 at 3:34 pm -      #66

    Damn you stubborn fanboys, it clearly states in the above posts that ghost rider wins.
    Just read what were included in Mata’s facts.

  67. Kenny C. November 17, 2009 at 3:46 pm -      #67

    @ Orpheus

    ” This of course would fuel Kharn into a full blown frenzy. Going into combat against an immortal being without any weapon/ability to take him out could very possibly make HIM grow in power as the battle heats up (no pun intended). This is why I think these two beings will fight for an eternity growing into omnipotence.” – Mata

    – Perhaps it is you who does not read. Please read all posts in their fullness before making oneself look like an ass.

  68. orpheus12 November 17, 2009 at 3:54 pm -      #68

    So what your saying is that Ghost Rider doesn’t have any weapon or ability to take him out ?

  69. orpheus12 November 17, 2009 at 3:56 pm -      #69

    @ kenny, Do you play xbox live on a 360? If so what is your Gamertag ?

  70. Kenny C. November 17, 2009 at 4:03 pm -      #70

    @ Orpheus

    Well considering the various weapons, monsters, magic, and various insta death things that Wh40k has thrown at him for ten thousand years straight… no. However, even if Kharn died (VERY unlikly) he always has his benefactor to count on as does Ghost Rider. Its a now a draw in my opinion.

    – In relation to your question about the xbox tag… Sony boy through and through.

  71. Pondering Fool November 17, 2009 at 4:19 pm -      #71

    Thank-you AHEM, for guiding me here to this duel. The sheer epicness of this match is just incredible…….now I actually have to think for a while on who would win. Could Hellfire actually harm Kharne? Would a penance stare be able to work on someone who doesn’t seem to have alot of remorse for 10,000 years of carnage? So many things to think about…..

    – the pondering fool

  72. Battra Boy November 17, 2009 at 4:38 pm -      #72

    Well, (I’m unsure if this point has been brought up) theoretically couldn’t Hellfire heat up Kharn’s armour? Thus cooking the Betrayer inside out.

    I know it probably isn’t a valid point, but theoretically its possible. And yes, I know that Adamantium cannot be rendered into the state of a liquid, but theres nothing to stop it from heating up.

  73. AHEM December 4, 2009 at 3:46 pm -      #73

    “Would a penance stare be able to work on someone who doesn’t seem to have alot of remorse for 10,000 years of carnage? So many things to think about…..”

    I’d be inclined to say that it would. The point of the Penance Stare, after all, is to force someone to feel all the pain they’ve inflicted over their lifetime, whether they already have remorse or not. It would be pretty devestating on someone who’s inflicted carnage for thousands of years if it worked.

  74. Prime Chaos January 19, 2010 at 10:52 pm -      #74

    Wait wait wait! “The point of the Penance Stare, after all, is to force someone to feel all the pain they’ve inflicted over their lifetime.” ALL THE PAIN?!!?!?!?!?

    Dear God How i pity Kharn if he gets hit by that stare.

  75. jwlynas September 8, 2010 at 9:51 am -      #75

    As has been mentioned, to effect Kharn’s soul in any meaningful way, Ghost-rider would need to reclaim it from Khorne.

    That said, I’m fairly sure Ghost Rider can do enough damage to Kharn. The armour, while strong, isn’t invulnerable, and Kharns forcefield-type thing can eventually be overwhelmed.

    Kharns body was intact when he pulled his “suddenly, back from the dead” thing, even if it was just barely. If Ghost rider blows him to atoms, which is fully within his power, there’s nothing to suggest Kharn can pull himself back together

    Ghosty wins.

  76. Matapiojo September 8, 2010 at 10:48 am -      #76

    I have forgotten what we’ve discussed here so far (it’s been a while), but I still stand by the statement that it will be near impossible to determine who a clear winer would be based on the information currently available to us.

    I think the fight would start with Kharn ripping Ghostie appart with little problem. Plasma and superior combat skills, physical attributes, and armour would likely be the culprit of this.

    After being roughed up a couple of times, Blaze would likely channel the more potent abilities he’s learned how to control. This is when Kharn starts getting hurt, but it is also the second instance where we don’t KNOW how the characters’ attributes match up (first being the now controversial soul-drinking properties of Gorechild). I’d like to think that Hellfire would fall into the category of things that papa Khorne makes go away, but the fact is that there is no real way of knowing. Assuming it works normally, then the berserker will eventually fall to the holy flames.

    Which brings us to the third unknown. Would Kharn then get up from near Hellfire oblivion through his sheer will? Would he get resurected by his pops as we have come to accept being the case?

    Lets say he does come back, pissed of and in full battle rage. The hatred of his patron flowing freely through him, and enhancing his every move in combat. I say that now Blaze gets beaten to a pulp (like he did when he went up against the Green Scar). Not the end of it, though.

    This is when the actual Spirit of Vengeance stops letting its host be the one calling the shots and steps forward. Hellfire blazes like it never had before. Again, will it work, or will Big Red interfere? If so, would the flames not do any harm to his champion, or would he pop him back up even stronger?

    Would this cycle continue? For how long? How grand a scope?

    We just don’t know.

    So the way it looks to me right now in terms of the known undetermined variables…
    1 – If Gorechild can indeed feast on the souls of the living, it might kill Blaze. = Kharn wins.
    2 – If Blaze can be killed that way, could the Heavenly Spirit of Vengeance also be killed? Being a Daemon/Angel interaction I’d like to think not, but that is clearly more speculation piled on top of other speculation. = Ghost Rider wins.
    3 – If Hellfire is determined to be outside the influence of Khorne? Then nothing would stop his form from being atomized eventually (armour included) by the power unleashed against him. = Ghost Rider wins. If it can be rendered null? Then the Ghost Rider will not have much to bring his oponent down, and it will just rely on it’s mystical endurance. = Draw.
    4 – If Kharn can resurect, is it due to his own willpower and physical capabilities? If so, he won’t last long before attrition wins the day. = Ghost Rider wins.
    5 – If Kharn can resurect, is it due to Khorne’s involvement? If so the battle might never come to an end. = Draw.
    6 – If the Spirit of Vengeance is unleashed in full, are it’s powers near omnipotent as being the Wrath of Godwould suggest? If so, the berserker will be eventually snuffed out. = Ghost Rider wins.
    7 – If Kharn can come back stronger than he was before due to his God’s blessings? Then he has the attrition advantage. However, we would not know either combatants’ upper power limits. = Draw.

    In general, I think Ghost Rider has the advantage in this fight as he is trully eternal, but there are still a great number of variables associated with Kharn that can render this match a victory for him or at the very least a draw. Like many other matches involving the berserker, we need to; a) determine once and for all if Gorechild indeed possesses the soul-drinking capabilities; b) determine what elements are influenced by Khorne’s protection; c) determine the true nature and effects of Kharn’s now legendary brush with death at the hands of his Space Marine brothers, and; d) the general effects of the Daemonic Gifts Khorne may have imparted onto his most beloved human.

    Until those are clear, all fights at this tier of combat involving Kharn will have a big ? associated with the final outcome. So I that GR takes this 2 out of 3 times, but we need a 3 out of 3 in order for an award to even be considered.

  77. jwlynas September 8, 2010 at 11:24 am -      #77

    “A) determine once and for all if Gorechild indeed possesses the soul-drinking capabilities”

    In general, I’d lean towards no… However, as much as I deride the story Wrath Of Kharn (the tale from which we get the idea that the Gorechild is possessed ) it is as much “canon” as anything else written by Black Library until something comes along and specifically denies it.

    “B) determine what elements are influenced by Khorne’s protection”

    It does get curious, especially when we take into account one thing from 40K lore. Kharn ignores the effects of Force weapons. Weapons imbued with psychic energy, which we have up till now assumed are allowed under the “at least you’re stabbing someone” clause.

    Plus we have cases of Wizards like Teclis from fantasy banishing a whole army of Demons, Khornate types included. The fact it mentions banishing in specific would suggest he didn’t use the usual style of magic, but a more tailor-made brand of anti-demon magic. And if Hell-fire can be classified as any type of magic, it’d be that sort.

    “C) determine the true nature and effects of Kharn’s now legendary brush with death at the hands of his Space Marine brothers”

    This at least may well become clear over time. Kharns mortal wounding was caused at the end of the Heresy. The Horus Heresy series of Books is currently being written. We can assume that, at some point, this will be addressed or retconned

    “D) the general effects of the Daemonic Gifts Khorne may have imparted onto his most beloved human.”

    Its not so much general effects, but specific effects we need concern ourselves with. Actually being given a average strength would be a huge boon.

  78. Matapiojo September 8, 2010 at 1:56 pm -      #78

    ” it is as much “canon” as anything else written by Black Library until something comes along and specifically denies it.”

    Precisely how I feel about it. Up to now, all Gorechild entries we see add onto the propperties the weapon has in that story rather than replace/retcon. Until such an event is published by GW in any fashion possible, the fact stands that the weapon is a Daemon Weapon with soul-drinking propperties.

    Don’t mean I like it, but it goes right beside Samus’ weapons being in the terawatt range…

    “It does get curious, especially when we take into account one thing from 40K lore. Kharn ignores the effects of Force weapons. Weapons imbued with psychic energy, which we have up till now assumed are allowed under the “at least you’re stabbing someone” clause.”

    Yes, and as Ghostie often channels his Hellfire through whatever weapon he chooses, or even craft weapons out of the stuff, it does make me wonder if it would be treated as Force Weapons in the game. Are there any lore entries of the Betrayer interacting with one such weapon that you know of? Perhaps we can find an answer in the wording of said entry.

    In the case of an actual classification for Hellfire, where I stand on it is precisely where GW stands on the subject. According to them, everything comes from the Warp. EVERYTHING. Magic is the term given by history to an element that while it was freely manipulated, it was not exactly understood. Therefore magic, divine powers, psyonics, and so on all come from the same place and are in fact different methods of tapping into the same source.

    I rather like that point of view. It narrows down all these separate “sources” of supernatural power which can get extremely tricky in a site such as this. Since it is an entry that can be sourced to an actual document (though the specific one escapes me at this time), I think it is the safest route to accept in pilerverse in general. This would remove a ton of headaches regarding how these powers interact across the entire site. No more “we don’t even know if the Force would affect Calgar”, or “Itachi’s jutsus wouldn’t have any effect on Ganondorf”.

    That does put Kharn at a distinct advantage on this site, but that’s the nature of the beast.

    “This at least may well become clear over time. Kharns mortal wounding was caused at the end of the Heresy. The Horus Heresy series of Books is currently being written. We can assume that, at some point, this will be addressed or retconned”

    Agreed. It would likely be a better idea to just wait for such a documentation to be released. That said, we don’t know that it WOULD be released in the first place. That leaves anything involving our beloved mad man in too prolonged a stand-still.

    Problem is that GW’s notorious ambiguity for their fans to fill in the gaps really does not help communities such as ours. That leaves a huge gap to be filled with our speculation.

    The fact as it stands is that Kharn was killed as noted by eye witnesses at the scene of the event. Then he came back some time after, more furious than ever, and never being close to death ever since.

    The whole “Whether he came back through sheer will, or intervension from his dark patron” entry is what will forever fuck us up when it comes to debating Kharn.

    “Its not so much general effects, but specific effects we need concern ourselves with. Actually being given a average strength would be a huge boon.”

    Agreed. Right now I can only account for a few “gifts” that can be cross refferenced with rules associated with the character…
    – Khorne’s Blessing. There have been numerous incarnations for this, so this one is the best docummented one.
    – Enhanced strength, ferocity, and close combat skill. We know that Kharn is a berserker of Khorne, and he has the daemonic strength, speed, and ferocious bloodlust associated with those, and then stats alone show that Kharn’s attributes are above even those of his brethren. Some incarnations show them running faster than regular Marines (Fleet of Foot, or extra blood frenzied movement), enhanced aggression (Furious Charge), ignoring all but the most grievous of wounds (Feel no Pain), and in the case of the Betrayer, a Khorne-driven battle madness (Rage of Khorne).

    Problem is that we don’t know whether or not these are boons from Khorne himself, or if these are just attributes inherited from the gene seed of Angron and the subsequent procedures to enhance their aggression. In fact, I cannot recall any lore entry that specifically states “Khorne touched so and so and they became more powerful” or anything similar to that. The only item that leads us to believe Khorne is directly involved at all is the so-called Daemonic Gift entries in the Codices that categorizes these elements under the four gods, but those have more a ring of game mechanics than actual canon to me.

    As much red as he adorns himself with, the fact remains that Kharn is one big blotch of numerous shades of grey…

  79. Belisaurius September 8, 2010 at 5:18 pm -      #79

    Hellfire is going to run into the collar of Khorne, a blessed object that tends to negate supernatural powers.

    Basicly what Matapiojo said.

    Likewise, the murders Kharn commits aren’t considered sins.

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