Tenno and Guardians Vs Galactic Empire and First Order

Tenno and Guardians Vs Galactic Empire and First Order

Suggested by Lowk

Tenno (Warframe) & Guardians (Destiny) will go up against Galactic Empire & First Order (Star Wars)
Galactic Empire and First Order invades the Solar System through a portal near Pluto which links Sol to Coruscant.
(Note from Rookie: I assume we have here combined EU and current canon for Star Wars).
Who will win?

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38 Comments on "Tenno and Guardians Vs Galactic Empire and First Order"

  1. Alpha or Omega January 24, 2016 at 12:25 am -      #1

    It’s not a combination of old EU and the new canon.
    I didn’t see Lowk say that when he was suggesting this match.
    Besides, that sounds like something I would rarely do.
    /
    Tenno&Guardians are obviously outnumbered, but are way better than these stormtroopers both the GE and FO have on ground.
    Not sure about space battles.

  2. GrandMaster January 24, 2016 at 12:39 am -      #2

    Guardians from what I know of Destiny are limited to pretty much just small fighter sized ships, and even if the Empire can’t crush them with numbers they can still bring in The Death Star/Sun Crusher/Galaxy Gun/Starkiller Base/etc to blow up earth and the rest of the solar system.

  3. Ninja Lowk January 24, 2016 at 1:14 am -      #3

    I forgot I sent this in already. Oh, well.
    ===
    “combined EU and current canon for Star Wars”

    Ummm, not really sure. Would it matter if I was thinking GE before Vader turned on The Emperor?
    ===
    “Guardians from what I know of Destiny are limited to pretty much just small fighter sized ships”

    They also have larger ships but they haven’t shown them and what they;ve noted about them is that they are really much anyway.
    With Teleporters that can put you get you onto a ship if your close enough. Which would make boarding action pretty useful
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPbE_kwNISs
    ===
    “and even if the Empire can’t crush them with numbers they can still bring in The Death Star/Sun Crusher/Galaxy Gun/Starkiller Base/etc to blow up earth and the rest of the solar system.”

    Wasn’t all that stuff already destroyed?
    Lotus knows how to build a generator that was capable of shifting a moon-sized object into another dimension, so that’s a pretty good way to hide anything they can’t move.

  4. LadyRamkin January 24, 2016 at 6:51 am -      #4

    I have been trying to play warframe….. and am totally lost…. i have no idea what i am doing… can someone point me to a guide or something…. one specifically made for the “not too bright”?
    – – –
    Though from what i have seen the only thing the starwars team has going for them is that they have some force users.

    the other team seems to out class storm troopers in just about every way.

  5. Darth Starkiller January 24, 2016 at 8:01 am -      #5

    How can a single sparcely inhabited solar system stand against an entire galaxy!?!.

  6. Friendlysociopath January 24, 2016 at 9:11 am -      #6

    How can a single sparcely inhabited solar system stand against an entire galaxy!?!.

    In theory the chokepoint of that portal would be a possible reason of how they could. Particularly if the Tenno can do this ship teleporting shenanigans.

  7. Jake_Uzumaki January 24, 2016 at 10:20 am -      #7

    Vader tells his grandson to stop being a wannabe Vader and be his own Sith or so help the Force he will shove that unstable lightsaber of Kylo’s where the sun don’t shine.

    In seriousness, we don’t know much about the First Order’s numbers besides the Resurgent Class Star Destroyers which are basically baby Executors aren’t the largest Star Destroyers in their employ and the Resistance has no fucking clue about their ground force numbers. Oh and they’ve been building up military might for the past 30 years which includes manipulating a nine or ten year old to slaughter his friends with a lightsaber and become an evil overlord’s apprentice.

    We know First Oder Stormtroopers have greatly improved armor and weapons systems and guys like TR-8R have ballistic shields. FO Stormies have targeting systems in their helmets and squads always have either a heavy megablaster or a flamethrower specialist with them. Their training has also greatly improved changing to a focus on guerrilla warfare, counter insurgency and improvisation brought on by them now having to claw their way to power.
    1xmu8q-bn1306.files.1drv.com/y3mZHsFTssM2unGaxeFxMI_8iHejNyMzvoMpfOHsJARJdVBlkdpn6-HFTysAKn0ORdDJo1IpZfAdCyaUWgCkxX-iwPR-w89WZGLcBWr4_vIyc7fMl44lebBg6UxjCGqSOC4ePxH8qJGmyE1vYLva6UvK_QwNO6591xF3fHmYfGiAOLo4OX07FUxWoQ3vBUiPGic/16-17.jpg?psid=1

    1xmu8q-bn1306.files.1drv.com/y3mNTtDyBn2qxoPhY1UWYtRBmVDqddM0jhSYrkF6R9DMNx_DJaBBjQCshqNP_N37ToV-Ta9eqbKo5FflBnV8R0Rk_BwJgasCPAlxESXS1vUhVwG3XGyoc2gzMZf5RN_auFOtdKjVw3uu1Z6-VXaZ41-FfOwviZa_6YkEdz2PolQDmLhIdPFLms459erFAPX-D81/18-19.jpg?psid=1

    1xmu8q-bn1306.files.1drv.com/y3m1erCCaSrhuWdbPWtFUmlAwND0T6AnqsFbrL5HQK62uEhkuC23XcrNU-XDZ4F6ok0Y0_TvcZJcPpGxMQca8MtrO6Yu3HCUnEJM_qEru90U9xIZzJQihk2r9jQmsptkDqioDLZlc30IyDe_isFH0f__fh9GXjh_frs4_RkEcY6NsWfiMrAGHFCALPKOrhyszyI/20-21.jpg?psid=1

  8. Jake_Uzumaki January 24, 2016 at 10:27 am -      #8

    Aand my post with links to the new Force Awakens visual dictionary stuff about First Order Storm Troopers is in moderation.

  9. Nsl98 January 24, 2016 at 11:18 am -      #9

    TR-8R solos.

  10. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 24, 2016 at 12:22 pm -      #10

    Guardians (and Tenno, really) would wreck on the ground. I wanna say the Tenno would cause some serious shit in space too.

    One of The GE and First order’s bigger advantages here, numbers, is kind of useless against the Guardian though. To quote the grimoire “The primary threat is the Guardians’ individual counter-attrition capability,” Is there tech sharing? Could the Traveler make the Tenno Guardians too?

  11. Ninja Lowk January 24, 2016 at 12:46 pm -      #11

    “I have been trying to play warframe….. and am totally lost…. i have no idea what i am doing… can someone point me to a guide or something…. one specifically made for the “not too bright”?”

    In the front on the leftside of the ship is a terminal. Go into that then look for quest. That’s seems like an okay point to start.

    Somethings are locked by mastery rank which is leveled up by leveling up various weapons and other warframes.

    Save your platinum, pretty much everything in the market worth platinum  you can either find or build using the blueprints you buy with in-game credits. But it’s kind of grindy. And some of the stuff you either need to build up a dojo to get or join a clan.

    Warframe parts are found by beating the bosses in the assassination nodes on pretty much every planet.

    The wiki is actually pretty good if you want to know where a specific thing is or what is behind every mission type.
    ===
    “How can a single sparcely inhabited solar system stand against an entire galaxy!?!”

    Extreme guerilla tactics, assassinations, and stealing/salvaging resources? The Guardians are okay commandeering whatever works and Tenno specialize in sneaking on and wiping entire ships clean.

  12. shadowrider98 January 24, 2016 at 1:46 pm -      #12

    like people have said before the guardians and tenno wreck on the ground,not sure about space though,I mean I guess while the guardians are keeping the empire and first order busy the tenno can infiltrate their ships and reek havoc on the inside the take the ship as their own,that’s just how I see it though.

  13. Neon Lord January 24, 2016 at 5:56 pm -      #13

    There is ‘outnumbered’ and then there is ‘outnumbered on many orders of magnitude larger’.

    Guardians and Tenno will wreck on the ground in infantry combat only. As soon as any engagement escalates to the point where vehicles or larger are able to be deployed effectively, team one is going to be screwed.

    Despite how wonky turbolaser calcs get, Star Wars does have the capability for sustained orbital bombardment which team one has next to no defence against.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Star Wars side had more ships than team one has people.

    If Starkiller base is in the match, the whole system can be annihilated through the portal with a single shot.

  14. KalaDellexe January 24, 2016 at 6:17 pm -      #14

    @LadyRamkin
    Look up Warframe Beginner’s Guide 2.0 on YouTube. It explains a lot of the more complicated concepts that the game fails at teaching new players.



    What I’m thinking now is that this becomes a guerrilla war being waged by the Tenno/Guardians from a safe haven in the Void. Not sure what Guardians can do, but Tenno/Archwings can create mini black holes and cause enemies to collapse in on themselves.

  15. Ninja Lowk January 24, 2016 at 7:15 pm -      #15

    “There is ‘outnumbered’ and then there is ‘outnumbered on many orders of magnitude larger’.”

    Guardians and Tenno will wreck on the ground in infantry combat only. As soon as any engagement escalates to the point where vehicles or larger are able to be deployed effectively, team one is going to be screwed.”

    They generally work via boarding ships and clearing them out. I’ll see if I can find the scaling calcs but A lone Tenno can infiltrate and clean out a ship in minutes. Combine that with the Guardian’s faction ability to teleport and being about to set up teleport points.
    The biggest problem is getting close to a ship without sacrificing ships. However Warframes themselves can be turned into short range Space fighters themselves with Archwings
    youtu.be/03LyFK5bscc

    As for Guardians ships
     https://youtu.be/rAZOVt4K8Tw
    @1:26 firepower seem comparable to the tie fighter that took out some of the Finalizers weapons.
    ===
    “Despite how wonky turbolaser calcs get, Star Wars does have the capability for sustained orbital bombardment which team one has next to no defence against.”

    Tenno don’t have a planet to bombarded and the home they did have was hidden in the void, another dimension.
    ===
    “I wouldn’t be surprised if the Star Wars side had more ships than team one has people.”

    Team one has a few million on each side I think.
    ===
    “If Starkiller base is in the match, the whole system can be annihilated through the portal with a single shot.”

    Meaning they would have to set up shop in Star Wars’ galaxy. Or aboard Tenno bases. But wouldn’t it take a while to build another starkiller.

  16. Neon Lord January 24, 2016 at 7:32 pm -      #16

    “They generally work via boarding ships and clearing them out. I’ll see if I can find the scaling calcs but A lone Tenno can infiltrate and clean out a ship in minutes. Combine that with the Guardian’s faction ability to teleport and being about to set up teleport points. The biggest problem is getting close to a ship without sacrificing ships. However Warframes themselves can be turned into short range Space fighters themselves with”

    I understand that Tenno are extremely effective compared to Stormtroopers. It’s just that in a simple war of attrition, there simply aren’t enough of them compared to the numbers Star Wars has. Eventually Tenno will fail and die in boarding actions, whether it be from ships self-destructing on them, installation of better defences in ships (like laser nets or tractor traps), or losing to Force users. Individually these solutions aren’t very effective, but over time the Tenno will take casualties and their numbers will dwindle; whilst Star Wars just keeps manufacturing more and more ships.

    “@1:26 firepower seem comparable to the tie fighter that took out some of the Finalizers weapons.”

    Weren’t those the original forces that took on Oryx thousands of years ago? I don’t think we’ve ever seen Guardians fighting like that.

    Also again, there simply isn’t enough of them.

    “Meaning they would have to set up shop in Star Wars’ galaxy. Or aboard Tenno bases. But wouldn’t it take a while to build another starkiller.”

    Which time period of Disney and Legends GE are we using?
    =
    @Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable – If you bring up Oryx again, I’m not going to bother debating against it. The lore and evidence for his ‘invulnerability’ and Ascendancy and stuff is simply too vague to argue with; unless more info comes up in the next expansion/game.

  17. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 24, 2016 at 7:43 pm -      #17

    “There is ‘outnumbered’ and then there is ‘outnumbered on many orders of magnitude larger’.”
    – It really wouldn’t matter against the Guardians though. Say one Guardian goes up against a hundred Stormtroops and he only takes out 5 before dying, right? Well, now he comes back completely fine and unharmed and takes out another 5 and then dies again. that process can be repeated ad nauseam until all 100 stormtroopers are dead, meaning the Guardians took no causalities. Attrition won’t work against Guardians.

    “As soon as any engagement escalates to the point where vehicles or larger are able to be deployed effectively, team one is going to be screwed.”
    – Gotta deny ya again there. A single Guardian can take out any ground-based vehicle any of the races in Destiny has, and I’d wager something like a Goliath Tank, whose main gun is “almost certainly capable of engage spacecraft”, is at least as powerful as anything the GE/FO have.

    “Weren’t those the original forces that took on Oryx thousands of years ago?”
    – No, that’s current stuff. Oryx has only been in our solar system once.

    “If you bring up Oryx again”
    – Why would I bring up Oryx? He’s not in this match as a combatant, I didn’t read that all Destiny forces were aligned either. So no Oryx or Hive/Vex/Cabal/Fallen, just Guardians.
    ==
    “Team one has a few million on each side I think.”
    – I dunno about Warframe, but I do know that every player is a Guardian in Destiny, and Destiny has something like 14 million players, so 14 million infinitely respawning Guardians.
    ==
    One Guardian is capable of destroying a minimum of 180 (Max: 260) 800-pound, heavily armored, machine gun (that fires duplex-exploding rockets) wielding Cabal without dying. On the ground these guys are going to be wrecking house.

    In space the Guardians are at a sever disadvantage. The only thing they really have, as far as can be shown, are their own ships. I suppose they could be used to get in close to Star Wars ships, even if they’re destroyed the Guardian can still just transmat in if they’re close enough before they get destroyed which seems likely given how accurate their sub-light engines are (making a jump from the Earth to Mars with absolutely no drift as evident by the ship just nose diving into wherever it was you wanted to go). Then its as easy as establishing a transmat zone and boom, easy access to a ship.

  18. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 24, 2016 at 9:11 pm -      #18

    I will say, if Oryx is involved than Team One wins easy. Less because of how good each Guardian/Tenno is and more because Oryx and the Taken are some OP shit.

  19. GrandMaster January 24, 2016 at 9:14 pm -      #19

    “Wasn’t all that stuff already destroyed?
    Lotus knows how to build a generator that was capable of shifting a moon-sized object into another dimension, so that’s a pretty good way to hide anything they can’t move.”

    Battle Incarnations would mean that the GE is at it’s last capable iteration, meaning they either have the Death Star 2 and Suncrusher and an entire galaxy or a whole bunch of super weapons (Galaxy Gun, World Devastators, etc) and an entire galaxy.

    “In seriousness, we don’t know much about the First Order’s numbers besides the Resurgent Class Star Destroyers which are basically baby Executors aren’t the largest Star Destroyers in their employ and the Resistance has no fucking clue about their ground force numbers. Oh and they’ve been building up military might for the past 30 years which includes manipulating a nine or ten year old to slaughter his friends with a lightsaber and become an evil overlord’s apprentice.”

    Considering they were able to construct a planet-sized superweapon in less than 30 years and not be very concerned when it’s destroyed, I think It’s safe to say their resources far outstrip what Destiny has. Idk anything about Tenno.

    “Guardians (and Tenno, really) would wreck on the ground. I wanna say the Tenno would cause some serious shit in space too.”

    While a Guardian is better than your average Storm Trooper due to regen, once they run into elite forces like Dark Jedi or Dark Troopers their progress is going to slow down immensely.

    “One of The GE and First order’s bigger advantages here, numbers, is kind of useless against the Guardian though. To quote the grimoire “The primary threat is the Guardians’ individual counter-attrition capability,” Is there tech sharing? Could the Traveler make the Tenno Guardians too?”

    I’m assuming the Traveler is what gives Guardians their powers, in this case, why can’t the GE/FO blow up the Traveler?

    “Team one has a few million on each side I think.”

    The Galactic Empire has ~30-40 million ships in a peacetime setting, in a war time setting who knows how many ships they could manufacture.

    ” It really wouldn’t matter against the Guardians though. Say one Guardian goes up against a hundred Stormtroops and he only takes out 5 before dying, right? Well, now he comes back completely fine and unharmed and takes out another 5 and then dies again. that process can be repeated ad nauseam until all 100 stormtroopers are dead, meaning the Guardians took no causalities. Attrition won’t work against Guardians.”

    If the planet they are on is obliterated, can the Guardians do anything relevant in space?

    “Gotta deny ya again there. A single Guardian can take out any ground-based vehicle any of the races in Destiny has, and I’d wager something like a Goliath Tank, whose main gun is “almost certainly capable of engage spacecraft”, is at least as powerful as anything the GE/FO have.”

    Most Destiny Spacecraft other than the Hive Fleet are fighter sized, so that isn’t much when compared to ground based turbolasers from X-1 Viper Droids.

    What defenses to the Guardians and Tenno have against mental domination? If worse comes to worst for the Empire, Palpatine could mindrape everyone on team 1.

  20. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 24, 2016 at 9:44 pm -      #20

    “While a Guardian is better than your average Storm Trooper due to regen, once they run into elite forces like Dark Jedi or Dark Troopers their progress is going to slow down immensely.”
    – Dark Jedi, probably, though I’d have to know more about what an average Dark Jedi is capable of. Dark Trooper? Nah. The Cabal are comparable to P3 Dark Troopers and, as I said earlier, a single Guardian can take on ~180 Cabal, at once, without going down. Really, the only challenge on the ground is going to come from Dark Jedi/Siths.

    “why can’t the GE/FO blow up the Traveler?”
    – Who said they couldn’t? But the Traveler isn’t. Guardians get their power from the Light, which the Traveler exudes but is in no way its soul source.

    “can the Guardians do anything relevant in space?”
    – Their suits are EVA-rated for an unknown time, as long as you want really. The Dreadnaught doesn’t have an atmosphere and Guardians do just fine.

    “Most Destiny Spacecraft other than the Hive Fleet are fighter sized”
    – Uh, yeah, I didn’t mean that it could destroy ships. I meant it more in the way that this is a tank on the ground firing up at spacecraft. How much kinetic energy would a shell that is capable of flying 10,000 KM in a relatively short amount of time (enough such that it would hit a flying spacecraft) have? Probably a lot, right?

    “turbolasers from X-1 Viper Droids.”
    – X-1 Viper didn’t have turbolasers, it had boosted Blaster Cannons, which are “equipped with the knockout punch of the turbolaser” but that doesn’t tell us how powerful they are. The Goliath would still be equal to that and they look… a lot less maneuverable.

  21. Neon Lord January 24, 2016 at 10:15 pm -      #21

    “– It really wouldn’t matter against the Guardians though. Say one Guardian goes up against a hundred Stormtroops and he only takes out 5 before dying, right? Well, now he comes back completely fine and unharmed and takes out another 5 and then dies again. that process can be repeated ad nauseam until all 100 stormtroopers are dead, meaning the Guardians took no causalities. Attrition won’t work against Guardians.”

    If you destroy their Ghost they can’t respawn.

    “I dunno about Warframe, but I do know that every player is a Guardian in Destiny, and Destiny has something like 14 million players, so 14 million infinitely respawning Guardians.”

    When was a game’s multiplayer population ever canon?

    “One Guardian is capable of destroying a minimum of 180 (Max: 260) 800-pound, heavily armored, machine gun (that fires duplex-exploding rockets) wielding Cabal without dying. On the ground these guys are going to be wrecking house.”

    Source? Did they face them all at once? What environment were they taking them on?

    ” Their suits are EVA-rated for an unknown time, as long as you want really.”

    I don’t think Guardians, or Ghosts, are capable of surviving planetary destruction.

    ” Uh, yeah, I didn’t mean that it could destroy ships. I meant it more in the way that this is a tank on the ground firing up at spacecraft. How much kinetic energy would a shell that is capable of flying 10,000 KM in a relatively short amount of time (enough such that it would hit a flying spacecraft) have? Probably a lot, right?”

    Space can be said to begin at 50 or 100+ kilometres. The International Space Station orbits at only 400km. I don’t see where you pulled a 10,000km range from.

  22. GrandMaster January 24, 2016 at 10:16 pm -      #22

    “Dark Jedi, probably, though I’d have to know more about what an average Dark Jedi is capable of. Dark Trooper? Nah. The Cabal are comparable to P3 Dark Troopers and, as I said earlier, a single Guardian can take on ~180 Cabal, at once, without going down. Really, the only challenge on the ground is going to come from Dark Jedi/Siths.”

    Basic Dark Jedi have the Force, so they can rag doll any Guardian they come across. More advanced Force Users such as Vader can speedblitz them, and Palpatine can mind rape them.

    How durable are Cabal? Dark Troopers have Phrik Armor, which withstood being on Alderaan when it was destroyed.

    “Who said they couldn’t? But the Traveler isn’t. Guardians get their power from the Light, which the Traveler exudes but is in no way its soul source.”

    The Traveler’s Light, carried by the Ghosts, is what brings the Guardians to life correct? Without the Traveler I’m assuming the Traveler’s Light goes out?

    “Their suits are EVA-rated for an unknown time, as long as you want really. The Dreadnaught doesn’t have an atmosphere and Guardians do just fine.”

    Can they move in space?

    “Uh, yeah, I didn’t mean that it could destroy ships. I meant it more in the way that this is a tank on the ground firing up at spacecraft. How much kinetic energy would a shell that is capable of flying 10,000 KM in a relatively short amount of time (enough such that it would hit a flying spacecraft) have? Probably a lot, right?”

    What’s the time and what’s the mass of the shell?

    “X-1 Viper didn’t have turbolasers, it had boosted Blaster Cannons, which are “equipped with the knockout punch of the turbolaser” but that doesn’t tell us how powerful they are. The Goliath would still be equal to that and they look… a lot less maneuverable.”

    Turbolasers are simply scaled up blaster cannons, the weapons on the X-1 Viper are more or less the same.

  23. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 24, 2016 at 10:41 pm -      #23

    @Neon Lord
    “If you destroy their Ghost they can’t respawn.”
    – Except you can’t destroy their Ghost.

    “This capability is provided by a small autonomous drone unit called a Dead Person [trans. unclear]. The Dead Person conceals itself during combat. It is not a viable target for direct fire.” – Ghost Fragment: Cabal 4 [X]

    “When was a game’s multiplayer population ever canon?”
    – Always? Every one of the Vanguard make idle chatter about the rest of the Guardians. And WoG.

    “Source? Did they face them all at once? What environment were they taking them on?”
    – Ghost Fragment: Cabal 4 [X].

    “Sand Eater II Cohort/Century 1/Maniple 8
    2 Squad [LINE INF]
    TASK:
    – sweep urban area grid 071×145 to screen BL I/3/3/5 intelligence op
    OUTCOME:
    – unit ambushed by solitary Guardian. no survivors”

    I got the numbers wrong though. I’m stupid. A century is composed of anywhere from 60, 80, and 100 troops with 80 being the ideal [X]. A Maniple is composed of 120 troops [X]. So a minimum of 180 and a maximum of 220 Cabal where ambushed by a lone Guardian. As for environment, its the Sand Eaters, so Mars.

    “I don’t think Guardians, or Ghosts, are capable of surviving planetary destruction.”
    – I didn’t say they could. GrandMaster asked what Guardians can do in space and I answered.

    “The International Space Station orbits at only 400km. I don’t see where you pulled a 10,000km range from.”
    – That’s the end of the atmosphere, I dunno why I assumed that spacecraft had to be way out there. Sorry.
    ==
    @GrandMaster
    “Basic Dark Jedi have the Force, so they can rag doll any Guardian they come across.”
    – How would shielding interact with the Force?

    “How durable are Cabal? Dark Troopers have Phrik Armor, which withstood being on Alderaan when it was destroyed.”
    – I have no idea how hostile Alderaan is. What does that mean? Cabal are very durable, able of taking damage that would – I don’t wanna use the wrong word here. A Colossus without a shield can withstand a rocket blast that reduces those around him to ash via Solar Damage.

    “Can they move in space?”
    – Without a ship? They could probably use their abilities (blink, glide, shade step) to move.

    “What’s the time and what’s the mass of the shell?”
    – Ha. If I knew that I could just find an online calculator. I’ll get images to scale a size and try to find a speed next time I play.

    “the weapons on the X-1 Viper are more or less the same.”
    – But that doesn’t tell us how powerful it is.

  24. Ninja Lowk January 24, 2016 at 10:52 pm -      #24

    “I understand that Tenno are extremely effective compared to Stormtroopers. It’s just that in a simple war of attrition, there simply aren’t enough of them compared to the numbers Star Wars has. Eventually Tenno will fail and die in boarding actions, whether it be from ships self-destructing on them, installation of better defences in ships (like laser nets or tractor traps), or losing to Force users. Individually these solutions aren’t very effective, but over time the Tenno will take casualties and their numbers will dwindle; whilst Star Wars just keeps manufacturing more and more ships.”

    Thing about Tenno is that destroying the Warframe doesn’t kill the Tenno using it. They can just build more and send them out where the other frames failed. In addition to that they can create autonomous doppelgangers of their frames.
    To cause actual casualties to the Tenno requires you to actually find and kill the Tenno itself or somehow bind them to one frame.

    Meanwhile it would really only take one getting into a starship to clean it out. Tenno don’t generally use the vessels they empty because they don’t have the resources or technical know how to maintain them. However the Guardians do make use of appropriated vehicles and have personnel who provide technical support and using the tech from other ships and ships themselves.
    ===
    “Weren’t those the original forces that took on Oryx thousands of years ago? I don’t think we’ve ever seen Guardians fighting like that.”

    That was the Taken King event which is current timeline events. They were using ships that Guardians themselves can use
    i.imgur.com/r03ADbH.jpg
    ===
    “Also again, there simply isn’t enough of them.”

    Well if they are going with Tenno’s basic tactic they wouldn’t need many per large ship to help them get aboard,
    ===
    “Which time period of Disney and Legends GE are we using?”

    How about rounds?
    1. Disney
    2. Legends
    That sound fair?
    ===
    “Battle Incarnations would mean that the GE is at it’s last capable iteration, meaning they either have the Death Star 2 and Suncrusher and an entire galaxy or a whole bunch of super weapons (Galaxy Gun, World Devastators, etc) and an entire galaxy.”

    Wouldn’t the last battle capable Galactic Empire be before Vader turned on Sidious.
    And besides the Death Star 2 wasn’t most of that stuff created after the original Galactic Empire was fragmented and turned into a bunch of offshoots?
    ===
    “While a Guardian is better than your average Storm Trooper due to regen,

    Guardians are better the the average stormtrooper for more then just regen.
    Space magic aside, They utilize shields as a basic defense with their armor, each one has hammer-space via the ghost meaning they can carry a variety of different type of weaponry and items for varying uses. They all have ships that can be controlled remotely. They are basically like what would happen if you mixed Boba Fett with a jedi
    ===
    “once they run into elite forces like Dark Jedi or Dark Troopers their progress is going to slow down immensely.”

    How so? The non-energy weapons with high rates of fire would help against the lightsaber deflection and the powers that rip people apart at the atomic-to-molecular level would require some crazy defenses.
    ===
    “I’m assuming the Traveler is what gives Guardians their powers, in this case, why can’t the GE/FO blow up the Traveler?”

    Technology that can hide a moon away from where they could get to it.
    Also without the darkness I don’t think there is anything stopping the Traveler from moving.
    ===
    “The Galactic Empire has ~30-40 million ships in a peacetime setting, in a war time setting who knows how many ships they could manufacture.”

    That’s a lot of ships.
    ===
    “If the planet they are on is obliterated, can the Guardians do anything relevant in space?”

    They can move and still do hit and run to teleport Tenno into ships.
    ===
    “Most Destiny Spacecraft other than the Hive Fleet are fighter sized, so that isn’t much when compared to ground based turbolasers from X-1 Viper Droids.”

    They might not show them often but Destiny do still have fleets of large vessels.
    vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/destinypedia/images/b/ba/640px-Fallen_ship.png/revision/latest?cb=20140807233241

    www.destinypedia.com/images/2/26/ReefKetch.png

    4.bp.blogspot.com/-ksHcnYspvB4/Vf65ZaUzumI/AAAAAAAABJg/URPDyT0etoM/s1600/db_destiny_244.jpg
    www.destinypedia.com/images/thumb/2/21/Cabal_spaceship.jpg/640px-Cabal_spaceship.jpg
    ===
    “What defenses to the Guardians and Tenno have against mental domination? If worse comes to worst for the Empire, Palpatine could mindrape everyone on team 1.”

    Oryx couldn’t seem to take Guardians will. There’s also the fact that some Guardians are robots.
    Warframes can resist the mind control abilities of Nyx warframes. Other then that The Tenno minds aren’t exactly there to dominate. They themselves also possess some psychic abilities even without using the warframes.

  25. Ninja Lowk January 24, 2016 at 11:19 pm -      #25

    “Basic Dark Jedi have the Force, so they can rag doll any Guardian they come across.”

    Guardians have a limited control over momentum, gravity, and space that allows them to maneuver in the air or teleport. Warlocks are also capable of levitation. So it they can resist even while in the air.
    ===
    “When was a game’s multiplayer population ever canon?”

    I think Unansweredble answers for the guardians.
    Regarding Warframe, DE does recognize the players as Tenno and the multiple in-game moon clans that have thousands of Tenno.

  26. GrandMaster January 24, 2016 at 11:24 pm -      #26

    “How would shielding interact with the Force?”

    Shields have never stopped the Force before, don’t see why they would now unless Guardian Shields are special.

    “I have no idea how hostile Alderaan is. What does that mean? Cabal are very durable, able of taking damage that would – I don’t wanna use the wrong word here. A Colossus without a shield can withstand a rocket blast that reduces those around him to ash via Solar Damage.”

    The Death Star blast that destroyed Alderaan. Is measured in the zetatons/yottatons of TNT. While the Phrik on the planet was only exposed to a fraction of that energy, that fact that it survived and nothing else did is a testament to it’s durability. Phrik is also Lightsaber proof

    “Wouldn’t the last battle capable Galactic Empire be before Vader turned on Sidious.
    And besides the Death Star 2 wasn’t most of that stuff created after the original Galactic Empire was fragmented and turned into a bunch of offshoots?”

    Palpatine reforms the Empire after The Battle of Endor and retakes the Galaxy before his final defeat, so it depends on which you consider to the be Empire’s peak of power.

    “Guardians are better the the average stormtrooper for more then just regen.
    Space magic aside, They utilize shields as a basic defense with their armor, each one has hammer-space via the ghost meaning they can carry a variety of different type of weaponry and items for varying uses. They all have ships that can be controlled remotely. They are basically like what would happen if you mixed Boba Fett with a jedi”

    Legends Storm Troopers have personal energy fields for their armor, and the Empire is capable of producing Force Sensitive Clones.

    “How so? The non-energy weapons with high rates of fire would help against the lightsaber deflection and the powers that rip people apart at the atomic-to-molecular level would require some crazy defenses.”

    If their physical bullets, Jedi can stop them with the Force, Light Speed rounds will kill them unless they have advanced Precog though. What weapons do the Guardians have that work on the atomic level?

    “Technology that can hide a moon away from where they could get to it.
    Also without the darkness I don’t think there is anything stopping the Traveler from moving.”

    Was the moon just invisible or in a separate dimension?

    “Oryx couldn’t seem to take Guardians will. There’s also the fact that some Guardians are robots.
    Warframes can resist the mind control abilities of Nyx warframes. Other then that The Tenno minds aren’t exactly there to dominate. They themselves also possess some psychic abilities even without using the warframes.”

    Palpatine can’t control robots but he mind-controlled the entire planet of Byss (20 Billion People) from light years away, and considering the Guardian population is significantly fewer, he could overwhelm them. Palpatine has also overwhelmed the mental defenses of skilled Force Uses. Does Oryx have any large scale feats for his mind-control or is it at a personal level?

    “Guardians have a limited control over momentum, gravity, and space that allows them to maneuver in the air or teleport. Warlocks are also capable of levitation. So it they can resist even while in the air.”

    To what degree? Most force users can lift multi-ton objects.

  27. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 24, 2016 at 11:58 pm -      #27

    “Shields have never stopped the Force before, don’t see why they would now unless Guardian Shields are special.”
    – Well, what kind of shields are in Star Wars? A quick google search later: There’s Droid Shields which protect from “energy, electrical, sonic and ion damage”, so not kinetic which I imagine is a large majority of the Force’s lethality. That page also has energy shields (protection from harmful energy) and environmental shields (protection form harmful environmental conditions), still nothing dealing with kinetics, which Guardian’s shields do protect from. The only other personal shielding I found was Personal Energy Shielding which specifically doesn’t protect from kinetic energy. As I said before, Guardian’s shields do protect from that, unless I missed something that might be a hurtle.

    “While the Phrik on the planet was only exposed to a fraction of that energy, that fact that it survived and nothing else did is a testament to it’s durability. Phrik is also Lightsaber proof”
    – A lot would have survived, it blew up, it wasn’t atomized or anything like that. Lightsaber’s are just plasma.

    “Legends Storm Troopers have personal energy fields for their armor, and the Empire is capable of producing Force Sensitive Clones.”
    – Their personal energy fields are less protective than Guardians (because Guardian’s protect from energy and kinetic), and the Guardian’s paracasual abilities are far and away better than being Force sensitive.

    “If their physical bullets, Jedi can stop them with the Force” “What weapons do the Guardians have that work on the atomic level?”
    – Can Jedi react to bullets moving significantly faster than Blaster Bolts? I believe he was talking about Fusion Rifles, though any weapon with an attribute will do the trick with a kill-shot.

    “Does Oryx have any large scale feats for his mind-control or is it at a personal level?”
    – Large scale? What’s “large”? During the war with a race known as the Taishibethi (Tai), Oryx Took the Tai Emperor Raven who was so large “she cuts a moon with her talons, she cuts it open and kills its brood.” Like… that “large”? Or like what Palpatine did? I couldn’t find anything in the Books of Sorrow.

    “To what degree?”
    – He didn’t mean like that. He meant move around. Their “jump” abilities are weird. For example, the Warlock’s Glide is described thus: “Break the bonds of gravity and convert your jump into a long, smooth glide.” Blink is ripping a hole in space. Double jump is bending momentum. Lift is just a powered jump, lame. But they could all be used to move in the vacuum of space.

    Lifting strength is… unknown. I was going to propose a sort of test wherein I’d hop on Destiny and punch a thing (as a Titan, tis what I do), then do a little “X is close enough to Y to weigh approx. as much as Y, a punch moved X a certain amount of meters, it would take A amount of PSI to move Y weight” but I don’t think that would give us a lifting strength… though a striking strength would still be invaluable I suppose…

  28. Neon Lord January 25, 2016 at 12:34 am -      #28

    “– Except you can’t destroy their Ghost.”

    Hiding somewhere when the shooting starts doesn’t mean it can’t be destroyed.

    “And WoG.”

    Quote?

    “I got the numbers wrong though. I’m stupid. A century is composed of anywhere from 60, 80, and 100 troops with 80 being the ideal [X]. A Maniple is composed of 120 troops [X]. So a minimum of 180 and a maximum of 220 Cabal where ambushed by a lone Guardian. As for environment, its the Sand Eaters, so Mars.

    What? First of all, the meaning of ‘century’ and ‘maniple’ can be completely different in fiction from what Roman Legions irl used. For example Warhammer 40k uses the same terms, yet a Titan maniple only equates to about 5-10 Titans.

    Second of all, when it says ‘Sand Eater II Cohort/Century 1/Maniple 8’, the logical interpretation of that is ‘the 8th Maniple of the 1st Century of the Sand Eater II Cohort”. You don’t add the numbers of a Centuria and a Maniple together; a Maniple is implied to be a subset of a Century The fact that this is also not how the Roman Legions’ versions were organised throws water on the idea that their numbers can somehow be equated to them.

    Third of all, on the line right underneath, it states ‘2 Squads’ of line infantry as a further subset of the maniple. If we were to equate that to real life (which we shouldn’t, but for the sake of an example I’ll do it here), that would only be around 20 Cabal; certainly not ~200.

    “They can move and still do hit and run to teleport Tenno into ships.”

    Do Guardians need to eat by any chance? Or do they just live without any need for sustenance/sleep?

    “That was the Taken King event which is current timeline events. They were using ships that Guardians themselves can use”

    Ah, my bad.

    “that fact that it survived and nothing else did is a testament to it’s durability. Phrik is also Lightsaber proof”

    Rocks also survived Alderaan’s destruction – that doesn’t make them ridiculously tough.
    However…
    “Lightsaber’s are just plasma.”
    Tanking plasma is no small feat of heat resistance.

    “– Well, what kind of shields are in Star Wars? ”

    I know that Deflector Shields can stop physical objects, although I don’t know if there are infantry portable versions of them.

  29. Ninja Lowk January 25, 2016 at 12:54 am -      #29

    “Palpatine reforms the Empire after The Battle of Endor and retakes the Galaxy before his final defeat, so it depends on which you consider to the be Empire’s peak of power.”

    This seems like a completely different empire
    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Empire_(Galactic_Empire)
    But if we’re going for the seperate canon round thing that might count. Do they still refer to it as the Galactic Empire in-universe?
    ===
    “Legends Storm Troopers have personal energy fields for their armor, and the Empire is capable of producing Force Sensitive Clones.”

    Why don’t they seem to use them much?
    And weren’t the force clones kind of wonky, or was that just starkiller’s failed clones?
    ===
    “If their physical bullets, Jedi can stop them with the Force, Light Speed rounds will kill them unless they have advanced Precog though. What weapons do the Guardians have that work on the atomic level?”

    But if they are trying to stop the bullets it kind of leaves them open to the more exotic abilities. The energy weapon varporise people but I was talking about thier powers which do the same. The act on forces like gravity, heat, electromagnetism and turn basically vaporize/disintegrate/rip apart thier enemies
    media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpJvWSNbS6ejygg/giphy.gif
    38.media.tumblr.com/0fe3b12fe932b0076af33b97a756ea4c/tumblr_mnbyuw1HFB1qdqlkxo8_250.gif
    Also Warframes are also capable of something similar by channeling their energy into their melee weapons.
    ===
    “Was the moon just invisible or in a separate dimension?”

    Separate dimension.
    ===
    “Palpatine can’t control robots but he mind-controlled the entire planet of Byss (20 Billion People) from light years away, and considering the Guardian population is significantly fewer, he could overwhelm them.”

    Tell me more about Byss. The wiki doesn’t give me much but note it was one of those force heavy places. Did he get a boost in power or something because if he had that kind of power why didn’t he use it on the rebels?
    ===
    “Does Oryx have any large scale feats for his mind-control or is it at a personal level?”

    His ever growing army that was spread out across the system(Possibly beyond) was made up of beings that he was mentally dominating.
    ===
    “To what degree? Most force users can lift multi-ton objects.”

    not really sure but if they are bending and converting the energy from their jumps to add to another jump or glide, wouldn’t that mean that they’d essnetially be using the amount of force be exerted to move them into superpowered jumps?
    ===
    “But they could all be used to move in the vacuum of space.”

    Mainly because momentum and gravity still exist in space.

  30. Ninja Lowk January 25, 2016 at 1:06 am -      #30

    “Do Guardians need to eat by any chance? Or do they just live without any need for sustenance/sleep?”

    … I’m not actually sure. I mean they are technically alive I think but that’s because of being light infused reincarnated murder machines. Would one need to sleep or eat if they have a floating robot advanced enough to remake their entire body from a mass of particles?

    I think there might be a grimoiore about a warlock dreaming for visions or something so they might be capable of it.
    ===
    EDIT:
    Ghost Frag:Myssteries 2 confrims they can dream.
    However in the Hellmouth entry Eris notes that she doesn’t need sleep.

  31. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 25, 2016 at 1:58 am -      #31

    “Hiding somewhere when the shooting starts doesn’t mean it can’t be destroyed.”
    – Direct fire isn’t viable, meaning you can’t shoot it at all.

    “Quote?”
    – Bah… I can’t find the particular interview again. Damn it.

    “What? First of all, the meaning of ‘century’ and ‘maniple’ can be completely different in fiction from what Roman Legions irl used. For example Warhammer 40k uses the same terms, yet a Titan maniple only equates to about 5-10 Titans.”
    – You do realize you’re talking about the Cabal, yes? The Cabal whose army composes of legionaries, Centurions, Phalanx, and Colossus, right? Its pretty clear they are inspired by the Roman Legion (plus they come from an Empire.) What does it matter how other games use the terms? A Titan in Destiny is a Guardian class,does that mean Titans in 40K are Guardians?

    “Second & Third”
    – I would have to disagree. Its simply listing the two unites that the 2 squads come from. Two squads formed from Century 1 and Maniple 8 sent to sweep that grid. To throw more water on your idea, the Grimoire continues:

    “Sand Eater II Cohort/Century 1/Maniple 8
    3 Squad [TAC INF]”

    So one Century (100 Troops, max) is made up of two Maniple 8s (120 troops)? Or… Century 1 and Maniple 8 were “refilled” as it were and sent out again. Which of those two seem more reasonable, really?

    But, I will lament, I missed the two squads thing. So one Guardian took out two squads of 80 Cabal.

    “The fact that this is also not how the Roman Legions’ versions were organised throws water on the idea that their numbers can somehow be equated to them.”
    – This I find almost laughable. The fact that you interpreted it a certain why that wasn’t how the Romans did it somehow casts more doubt that it was how the Romans did it? Ha, what? Kinda circular there.

    “Do Guardians need to eat by any chance? Or do they just live without any need for sustenance/sleep?”
    – Eat, I don’t think so. They are, essentially, zombies. I don’t think they need to sleep, either. I know Exos don’t need sleep, cant if I remember right.

    “Tanking plasma is no small feat of heat resistance.”
    – Oh, I know, but I mean… its not that special in Destiny, all the other races use DEWs and Guardians shield and armor tanks it. So its… not that amazing comparably.

  32. Neon Lord January 25, 2016 at 2:25 am -      #32

    “– Direct fire isn’t viable, meaning you can’t shoot it at all.”

    It then states in the very next sentence that indirect fire is effective. When they say ‘direct fire isn’t viable’, its because the Ghost is hiding somewhere where they can’t directly shoot it once a battle starts. It doesn’t mean its unshootable (if that’s a word).

    “– You do realize you’re talking about the Cabal, yes? The Cabal whose army composes of legionaries, Centurions, Phalanx, and Colossus, right?”

    The Colossus was a was a statue and a phalanx is a formation. I don’t see how this supports your argument that the Cabal military structure mirrors that of the Romans.

    “What does it matter how other games use the terms? A Titan in Destiny is a Guardian class,does that mean Titans in 40K are Guardians?”

    I was not comparing 40k to Destiny. I was comparing 40k to real life, and how a similar case follows for Destiny since both universes are fictional.

    “I would have to disagree. Its simply listing the two unites that the 2 squads come from.”

    How does this make any sense? It lists ‘Century ?/Maniple ?’ for every entry in that grimoire, even when there are three to five squads deployed, or just a single dropship.

    “So one Century (100 Troops, max) is made up of two Maniple 8s (120 troops)? Or… Century 1 and Maniple 8 were “refilled” as it were and sent out again. Which of those two seem more reasonable, really?”

    Neither. Three extra squads from Maniple 8 of the 1st Century were deployed elsewhere from the other two squads, and whatever other squads that may make up the maniple.

    “So one Guardian took out two squads of 80 Cabal.”

    Where in the world did you pull ‘squad = 80′ from?

    “This I find almost laughable. The fact that you interpreted it a certain why that wasn’t how the Romans did it somehow casts more doubt that it was how the Romans did it? Ha, what? Kinda circular there.”

    What I said was that the Romans’ didn’t organise a Century under a Maniple, which supports my argument that the Cabal military structure is different from the Romans’ and hence we can’t rely on numbers from the Roman military to estimate the numbers of the Cabal.

    Furthermore, the Romans’ did not use ‘squads’ in their military structure.

    “all the other races use DEWs”

    DEW?

  33. Rookie January 25, 2016 at 3:11 am -      #33

    We know too little about First Order for now…

  34. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 25, 2016 at 3:17 am -      #34

    “It doesn’t mean its unshootable (if that’s a word).”
    – I’m talking on an infantry level. Obviously orbital bombardment or something like that would destroy the Ghost, but a Stormtrooper firing at it won’t destroy it. Does that clear what I meant up?

    “I don’t see how this supports your argument that the Cabal military structure mirrors that of the Romans.”
    – So ignore the Legionaries and the Centurion, and the fact that they hail from an Empire, and the obvious design motif in a lot of their helmets, and instead focus on the two that only kind of don’t match up. Riight.

    “I was not comparing 40k to Destiny. I was comparing 40k to real life, and how a similar case follows for Destiny since both universes are fictional.”
    – Except you’re than wanting to somehow superimpose 40Ks different definitions onto Destiny because ??? Which is still as stupid as it was before.

    “How does this make any sense?”
    – Really? Uh, okay.
    Century 1 + Maniple 8 = 2 squads.
    Simple, right?

    “Three extra squads from Maniple 8 of the 1st Century were deployed elsewhere from the other two squads”
    – where are you getting your definition of a squad? From real life? That’s very hypocritical of you. Do real life numbers matter or not?

    “Where in the world did you pull ‘squad = 80′ from?”
    – Century (60 troops) + Maniple (120 troops) = 180 troops.
    180 troops/2 squads = 80 troops per squad.

    “What I said was that the Romans’ didn’t organise a Century under a Maniple, which supports my argument that the Cabal military structure is different from the Romans’ and hence we can’t rely on numbers from the Roman military to estimate the numbers of the Cabal.”
    – The Cabal don’t either. Even going by your assumption, a maniple is under a century, you proposed Cohort > Century > Maniple not Cohort > Maniple > Century. And you’re still using your assumption to say your assumption is correct.

    “Furthermore, the Romans’ did not use ‘squads’ in their military structure.”
    – I was going to make a comment about how they didn’t use cohorts either… and then I looked it up. Cohorts are formed from 6 Centuria, each Centuria is formed by a pair of Maniples (so Cohort > Century > Maniple) and this is exactly how Roman’s legions were organized. Fuck. So you would have been correct. It would be the 8th Maniple of the 1st Century of the SE Cohort. Still, a maniple is 120 troops, that’s still 60 troops to a squad (120/2=60.) Not using squads doesn’t matter, stop nitpicking.
    Legionary – Roman
    Centurion – Roman
    Cohort – Roman
    Century – Roman
    Maniple – Roman
    Phalanx- Not Roman
    Colossus – Not Roman
    Squad – Not Roman
    I think its safe to assume they are based on the legions of Rome. Except their Centuria would have to be bigger, if 1 century had 8 maniples as opposed to the normal pair.

    “DEW?”
    Directed Energy Weapon? Does no one use DEW anymore? Fallen, Hive, and Vex use directed energy weapons. (Useless info that doesn’t matter here: ) Fallen mainly use Arc, which means essentially pure electricity with the exception of the Shrapnal Launcher which is a railgun. The Hive only have two weapons, a weapon that spites “void fire” and another that “lobs rotting starfire” (The hive are more magic-y than anything else in Destiny.) The Vex just fire energy, except for the Torch Hammer which fires “strange matter” which “mauls targets with exotic particle decay and deadly radiation.” Compared to that Lightsabers are just… meh.

  35. Neon Lord January 25, 2016 at 4:30 am -      #35

    “I’m talking on an infantry level. Obviously orbital bombardment or something like that would destroy the Ghost, but a Stormtrooper firing at it won’t destroy it. Does that clear what I meant up?”

    It can’t be a target of direct fire because it is concealed. If the Stormtroopers were to find the Ghost, then they can destroy it. Unfortunately, we don’t know how the Ghost conceals itself so nothing more can be said on the matter. If it’s somehow like hiding behind a rock however, a scanner may be able to pick it up.

    “So ignore the Legionaries and the Centurion, and the fact that they hail from an Empire, and the obvious design motif in a lot of their helmets, and instead focus on the two that only kind of don’t match up. Riight.”

    Your claim was that Cabal military structure is the same as the Roman Legion military structure. I only need to point out one thing to prove that wrong.

    “Except you’re than wanting to somehow superimpose 40Ks different definitions onto Destiny because ??? Which is still as stupid as it was before.”

    Its not 40k’s different definition. It’s a case of all fiction that specific terms in said fiction may not be the same as the real life version. Especially something as specific as the amount of members in a particular military unit.

    “Really? Uh, okay.
    Century 1 + Maniple 8 = 2 squads.
    Simple, right?”

    And Century 1 + Maniple 8 = 3 squads how?
    And Century 4 + Maniple 1 = 4 squads how?
    And Century 4 + Maniple 1 = 1 dropship how?
    etc.

    “where are you getting your definition of a squad? From real life? That’s very hypocritical of you. Do real life numbers matter or not?”

    My point was that you can’t compare the NUMBERS inside of a military unit to the real life version simply because they have the same name.

    “180 troops/2 squads = 80 troops per squad.”

    So you’re just going to ignore how there are also at least three more squads? And how a maniple can consist of four squads and a dropship?

    “I think its safe to assume they are based on the legions of Rome. ”

    Based on is fine. Pulling numbers from the Roman Legions and applying them to the Cabal military structure though is not since they are quite clearly different.

    Addendum: “180 troops/2 squads = 80 troops per squad.”

    Do you even math

  36. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 25, 2016 at 12:23 pm -      #36

    ” If it’s somehow like hiding behind a rock however, a scanner may be able to pick it up.”
    – It conceals itself “inside” the Guardian.If they don’t know where its concealed how are they going to find it to destroy it in the three seconds it takes for a Guardian to revive himself?

    “I only need to point out one thing to prove that wrong.”
    – How does that even work? Pointing out one thing that doesn’t work doesn’t even kind of hurt the entire hypothesis. That’s like poiting at something like a hawk, noting its difference to a sparrow, and concluding they, therefore, are not both birds.

    “It’s a case of all fiction that specific terms in said fiction may not be the same as the real life version.”
    – … Yeah… the term is different in X so it might be different in Y? Why does how that term is applied in X matter to Y?

    “My point was that you can’t compare the NUMBERS inside of a military unit to the real life version simply because they have the same name.”
    – Except you can. Its a logical assumption until more info is applied. And you didn’t prove your point, you did what I did (which your point was suppose to paint as flawed) except with the smallest part of it. How does that make me point flawed?

    “So you’re just going to ignore how there are also at least three more squads? And how a maniple can consist of four squads and a dropship?”

    Three more squads from the same maniple? No, the maniple was repopulated, I said that already. What does the dropship have to do with anything? The maniple was split into 4 squads, the maniple was repopulated, and then sent out a dropship.

    BUT that’s not how it works. The “X squad” part is part of their naming scheme, it doesn’t mean there where 2 squads. It’s like 101st Airborne Division, it doesn’t mean there are actually 101 airborne divisions. You can tell this by how the Cabal tell the next group to go help the last one.

    “Dust Giant IV Cohort/Century 4/Maniple 1
    4 Squad [AIRMOBILE]
    TASK:
    – secure grid 071×145, destroy guardian target”
    – So squad 4 of maniple 1 of century 4 of DG IV was sent out to secure grid 075×145 and to kill a guardian. When they didn’t report back the next one came out:

    “Dust Giant IV Cohort/Century 4/Maniple 1
    Harvester Dropship [TAC AIR]
    TASK:
    – support IV/4/1/4 operations in 071×145”
    – And you can tell here these guys where just meant to support IV/4//1/4 (that’s squad 4 of maniple 1 or century 4 of DG IV.) Squads are names, not divisions of the maniple.

    “Based on is fine. Pulling numbers from the Roman Legions and applying them to the Cabal military structure though is not since they are quite clearly different.”
    – Its really not. Here is how the Roman Legions organized their military:
    Cohort > Centuria > Maniple
    Here’s how the Cabal organized their military:
    Cohort > Centuria > Maniple > Squad
    Yeah, not similar at all.Ha.

    “Do you even math”
    – You only noticed that after you posted? It was like 2 AM and I was beat to shit. Made the unfortunate choice of posting here while tired.
    ==
    Let’s forget all of this exact number stuff, one Guardian took on 20 (2 squads) 800 pound, heavily armored, rocket launcher-machine gun wielding Cabal and didn’t die, they are going to fuck every stormtrooper they come across.

  37. GrandMaster January 25, 2016 at 1:25 pm -      #37

    “Well, what kind of shields are in Star Wars? A quick google search later: There’s Droid Shields which protect from “energy, electrical, sonic and ion damage”, so not kinetic which I imagine is a large majority of the Force’s lethality. That page also has energy shields (protection from harmful energy) and environmental shields (protection form harmful environmental conditions), still nothing dealing with kinetics, which Guardian’s shields do protect from. The only other personal shielding I found was Personal Energy Shielding which specifically doesn’t protect from kinetic energy. As I said before, Guardian’s shields do protect from that, unless I missed something that might be a hurtle.”

    Force Telekinesis isn’t a physical Attack, it works by exerting your will on what you want to move, which shields wouldn’t protect against unless they have magical properties.

    “A lot would have survived, it blew up, it wasn’t atomized or anything like that. Lightsaber’s are just plasma.”

    Lightsabers can cut through basically any material in Star Wars, even starship armor. The only things they can’t cut through are Beskar, Cortosis, and Phrik, which are highly resistant to all forms of weaponry including Blasters and tank weapons.

    “Their personal energy fields are less protective than Guardians (because Guardian’s protect from energy and kinetic), and the Guardian’s paracasual abilities are far and away better than being Force sensitive.”

    The Stormtrooper energy shields deflect blaster rounds, their armor is impervious except for some weak points to projectile rounds unless they are high calibre AP rounds.

    “He glanced through the opening and found a dozen storm-troopers only ten meters away, still coming despite a hail of Tusken slugs. One fell to a hit through the lens, another with a wound through his throat, but most were simply falling as the projectiles splattered against their armor, then popping back up an instant later.”

    – Taken from Tatooine Ghost

    “Can Jedi react to bullets moving significantly faster than Blaster Bolts? I believe he was talking about Fusion Rifles, though any weapon with an attribute will do the trick with a kill-shot.”

    Yes.

    “Large scale? What’s “large”? During the war with a race known as the Taishibethi (Tai), Oryx Took the Tai Emperor Raven who was so large “she cuts a moon with her talons, she cuts it open and kills its brood.” Like… that “large”? Or like what Palpatine did? I couldn’t find anything in the Books of Sorrow.”

    That’s to vague a description, also the Wiki says the Emperor destroyed a Hive War Moon, how large are they?

    “This seems like a completely different empire
    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Empire_(Galactic_Empire)
    But if we’re going for the seperate canon round thing that might count. Do they still refer to it as the Galactic Empire in-universe?”

    It’s called the Galactic Empire in the comic, it wasn’t named The Dark Empire until a separate book came out. The Empire technically survives all the way to 130ABY in a weakened state.

    “Why don’t they seem to use them much?
    And weren’t the force clones kind of wonky, or was that just starkiller’s failed clones?”

    It caused madness in the case of Starkiller’s clones but it was later perfected as seen with Joruus C’boath’s clone and Luke’s clone with the only true side effect being heightened aggression. It also worked on the Cuis Clones perfectly but their handler turned against the Empire.

    “Tell me more about Byss. The wiki doesn’t give me much but note it was one of those force heavy places. Did he get a boost in power or something because if he had that kind of power why didn’t he use it on the rebels?”

    “Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.”
    –Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

    He couldn’t use them on the rebels because he didn’t know who they were or where they were. And Byss was a dark side Nexus because of Palpatine’s power.

    “His ever growing army that was spread out across the system(Possibly beyond) was made up of beings that he was mentally dominating.”

    How large is his army? If the Guardians only number ~10 million people yet can fend off the Hive and the other aliens, it must not be very large.

    “Direct fire isn’t viable, meaning you can’t shoot it at all.”

    That isn’t really relevant, if the planet gets blown up, it doesn’t matter if the Ghost is visible or invisible.

  38. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 25, 2016 at 2:02 pm -      #38

    “Force Telekinesis isn’t a physical Attack, it works by exerting your will on what you want to move, which shields wouldn’t protect against unless they have magical properties.”
    – It would still take kinetic energy to push me back, from a Force Push. And the Guardian’s shield would absorb that kinetic energy.

    “Lightsabers can cut through basically any material in Star Wars, even starship armor.”
    – I am aware. Still doesn’t mean much when all Lightsabers are is plasma and Guardian’s regularly tank plasma.

    “The Stormtrooper energy shields deflect blaster rounds, their armor is impervious except for some weak points to projectile rounds unless they are high calibre AP rounds.”
    – blaster bolts are directed energy, is it not? “A blaster was any type of ranged weapon that fired bolts of intense plasma energy.” Yes, so not kinetic rounds. As for weak points, Guardians regularly shoot for the head, so those weaknesses would be readily apparent.

    “Yes.”
    – Proof? In regards to them blocking things faster than blaster bolts.

    “the Wiki says the Emperor destroyed a Hive War Moon, how large are they?”
    – Its the size of the moon.

    “it must not be very large.”
    – We haven’t seen all of it. He’s been waging war on the universe for longer than the earth has existed, though, chances are his Taken army is much more numerous than… the GE/FO, but that’s just a guess with nothing backing it up.

    “it doesn’t matter if the Ghost is visible or invisible.”
    – More like tangible or intangible, but I know. I already clarified what I meant. You’d have to destroy the Ghost to make sure a Guardian can’t revive, and since Guardian never form large enough packs to make bombardment a viable option you’d have to do it in multiple places at once with no tattletale sign that you’re doing it in order to permanently kill all the Guardians on the planet. It only takes a Guardian something like three seconds to transmat into his ship and be off world, It would be fairly hard to permanently kill Guardians in this way.

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