Manga Universe War

Manga Universe War

Suggested by sadot06

Manga Universe War

One Punch Man, Bleach, and One Piece

vs

Naruto and Dragon Ball

Universal fight to the death.

*All deceased characters in One Punch Man are alive.*

*Dragon Ball is part 1 of the series prior to the Saiyan Saga.*

*Infinite Tskuyomi is banned.*

*One Piece can use Whitebeard*

Who will win?

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56 Comments on "Manga Universe War"

  1. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 12:21 am -      #1

    Lol I came up with the perfect, foolproof idea. In OP verse, there is a character named Sugar. And her power is extremely overpowered. One touch to someone, and they turn into a plush toy, with all the reduced durability that entails. Plus, upon becoming a toy, the person is reduced from the memories of ANYONE who has ever seen or known that person in the entirety of the universe. So people who went through emotional change because of a person, revert to how they were before the target person effected their life. OP man just needs to fly around with Sugar in his hands, and tap everyone on the opposing team.

    onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Sugar

  2. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 12:23 am -      #2

    I left a comment that is not showing up…?

  3. Jake_Uzumaki January 10, 2016 at 12:30 am -      #3

    Is it under moderation?

  4. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 12:36 am -      #4

    No, I tried to re post it, and it said it was a duplicate. I cant even see it right now. It would tell me it was under moderation. I just tried it again, said it was a duplicate still.

  5. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 12:37 am -      #5

    I came up with the perfect, foolproof idea. In OP verse, there is a character named Sugar. And her power is extremely overpowered. One touch to someone, and they turn into a plush toy, with all the reduced durability that entails. Plus, upon becoming a toy, the person is removed from the memories of ANYONE who has ever seen or known that person in the entirety of the universe. So people who went through emotional change because of a person, revert to how they were before the target person affected their life. Saitama just needs to fly around with Sugar in his hands, and tap everyone on the opposing team.

  6. Friendlysociopath January 10, 2016 at 12:38 am -      #6

    I left a comment that is not showing up…?

    It’s not pending, you must’ve canceled it, or internet shenanigans.

    Soooo Dragonball before anyone had planetbusting feats? That still leaves Goku, Piccolo, Roshi, and Vegeta at moon-busting levels I think.
    Nappa is still casually city.
    Krillin is mountain, as is Raditz.
    And Gohan, Tien, and Yamcha are lesser.

    I thought Saitama had a legit relativistic feat? Doesn’t that allow him to solo most of the enemy universes?

  7. Numinous One January 10, 2016 at 12:55 am -      #7

    “Soooo Dragonball before anyone had planetbusting feats? That still leaves Goku, Piccolo, Roshi, and Vegeta at moon-busting levels I think.
    Nappa is still casually city.
    Krillin is mountain, as is Raditz.
    And Gohan, Tien, and Yamcha are lesser.”

    Nah.
    Part 1 is the end of Kid Goku era when he’s 18.
    Saiyans come later.

  8. Jake_Uzumaki January 10, 2016 at 1:09 am -      #8

    Well…technically its the same universe everyone else just hasn’t shown up yet……

  9. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 10, 2016 at 1:11 am -      #9

    Bleach, by itself, destroys Naruto. Yamamoto is a legit word-buster with his bankai via elemental effects (I heard the first movie is canon, and the first movie shows SS as comparable to the earth in size.) Aizen is untouchable physically, immortal even if they could touch him, and nearly unsealable (most of the seals, I recall, need to get close… too close, it would turn to dust before even touching Aizen.) Yhwach’s ultimate ability is a literal form of omniscience from that point on, and any abilities he sees, he knows, and every ability he knows will 1) become his “ally”, whatever that means, but more importantly 2) that ability will be unable to harm him in any way.

    Oh, and then there’s that whole genjutsu would be useless against anyone from Bleach. I mean, that doesn’t hurt.

    Naruto is kinda fucked against Bleach by itself, the real trouble really only comes along with DB, but I’m confident in One Punch Man on that front.

  10. Numinous One January 10, 2016 at 1:19 am -      #10

    “Well…technically its the same universe everyone else just hasn’t shown up yet……”

    Sooo…. Do we include Frieza and Beerus cause they haven’t shown up yet?

  11. Jake_Uzumaki January 10, 2016 at 1:33 am -      #11

    “Sooo…. Do we include Frieza and Beerus cause they haven’t shown up yet?”

    Shrugs might as well if Bleach characters who haven’t done shit to show planet busting are planet busters. Hell lets take the planet busting comments about Beerus and Goku’s fists punching at face value.

  12. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 10, 2016 at 1:47 am -      #12

    “Shrugs might as well if Bleach characters who haven’t done shit to show planet busting are planet busters.”
    – Planet buster was the wrong phrase. Planet… affecter? Life-on-a-plaet-eradicator? His bankai would have destroyed the whole of the SS, I used planet buster as a catch-all for anything that can destroy/kill/life wipe a planet.

  13. Jake_Uzumaki January 10, 2016 at 2:12 am -      #13

    Life Wiping is something Naruto can survive by the time of the Last while in a weakened Kyubi Sage mode (Toneri’s moon cutter was calced by Aelfinn at 159 terratons, even if the moon slice one didn’t hit him with all of that he did punch through the second beam) EoS Hokage Naruto in Sage of Six Paths mode is probably going to give few fucks about it. Sasuke is more arguable but both should be capable of the same at full power, not sure how casually or if they’d want to but still.

    Though I will say its a good thing there’s no prep time after Boruto and the whole mass produced anyone can throw out any jutsu machine was made..things could get really ugly with Naruto and DB working together if they could start putting stuff like Roshi’s long charge moonbuster kamehameha into scrolls…….

    That said there’s a huge order magnitude difference between life wiping and planet busting (and large gaps between the different levels of each but that’s besides the point at this level)

    Also I wonder if we’ll see current Ichigo’s full power any time this year

  14. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 10, 2016 at 2:27 am -      #14

    “Life Wiping is something Naruto can survive by the time of the Last while in a weakened Kyubi Sage mode”
    – Under what definition of life wiping does that count? Isn’t that conflating the an action with the effects of that action?

    “EoS Hokage Naruto in Sage of Six Paths mode is probably going to give few fucks about it. Sasuke is more arguable but both should be capable of the same at full power, not sure how casually or if they’d want to but still.”
    – And here you conflate the moon thing (which isn’t a planet buster or life wiping) which is force and assume that because they can survive that they can survive Yamamoto’s Bankai… which is heat-oriented. Can your prove EoS Naruto can survive getting cut in half with the heat of the sun concentrated on the edge of a blade? Or that he could survive having that heat next to him for more than a few minutes?
    ==
    Bleach still stomps Naruto, completely.

  15. Ninja Lowk January 10, 2016 at 3:31 am -      #15

    Bleach does have that sniper who powers are basically my bullets pass through through you like your attacks pass through me hax.

  16. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 8:50 am -      #16

    I believe Bleach characters are still calced (by yours truly) at having the highest combat speed of any of these.
    However none of them have the raw strength to hurt someone that could survive planet busts. But then again… I don’t think anyone in DB or Naruto can survive something like that anyways afaik.

  17. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 9:56 am -      #17

    Faster than ftl saitama?

  18. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 10:34 am -      #18

    Is he actually ftl aside from the moon-earth feat? Which imo has nothing to do with combat speed

  19. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 10:52 am -      #19

    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/d9/Lightspeed_Slash_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20150920213022

    z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/12688/066.0/compressed/k009.jpg

  20. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 11:00 am -      #20

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11112/111126233/3213123-8548621361-img00.jpg

  21. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 11:25 am -      #21

    So… isn’t that just the name of an attack? It certainly sounds like a video game-esq attack with hyperbolic adjectives.

    But anyhow, even if it WAS a light speed “slash”, which his opponent apparently dodged, what was stopping him from turning at lightspeed & instantly unloading a trillion other ones in a millisecond?
    1. It pushes his speed to its limits, and isn’t repeatable without concentration.
    2. His reaction speed doesn’t keep up at all.
    3. It’s just a fancy name for a fast attack.

    Ichigos speed feat consists of consistently, accurately, and repeatedly slashing his sword thousands of times in a short time span.
    Thus, faster combat speed.

  22. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 11:45 am -      #22

    He didn’t call out the name of the attack, everything was mostly in his mind. He said light speed slash, and described it as light speed in a seperate panel. The guy was astonished by saitamas reaction times to said attack. Oh and I think you misunderstand. The bald guy is saitama, the one who dodged the slash twice. Your combat speed definition is not remotely right btw. Catching a light speed slash has just as much to do with ‘combat speed’ (whatever the heck that is supposed to mean) as that feat you mentioned for ichigo.

    “instantly unloading a trillion other ones in a millisecond?”

    Because that would be faster than light? Besides, if a characters biggest shtick is to do light speed slashes, and someone dodged and caught two extremely easily, it’s pointless to do more.
    Btw, isn’t a trillion a thousand billion? You are aware that light speed is something like 300 million meters per second right?

  23. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 12:15 pm -      #23

    ” The bald guy is saitama, the one who dodged the slash twice”

    ah, I thought he performed the attack.
    Nonetheless, as I have stated several times on this site, dodging an attack does NOT make you equal to the speed of the attack.
    Forexample, characters that can consistently dodge bullets *cough cough batman* are not anywhere near sonic characters.

    ” Your combat speed definition is not remotely right btw”

    I consider combat speed the speed at which characters can consistently and reliably move SEVERAL muscle groups of their bodies, to perform SEVERAL actions, with precision.
    Saitama doesn’t fit that.

    And anyways, “combat speed” isn’t an official term, how can my definition be “wrong”?

    ” Catching a light speed slash has just as much to do with ‘combat speed’ (whatever the heck that is supposed to mean) as that feat you mentioned for ichigo”

    Umm no. No it doesn’t.
    Ichigo was actually moving his body at that speed, Saitama merely stopped an attack that was moving at that speed.

    Hulk has caught attacks from Quicksilver. By your logic Hulk is now relativistic.

    “Because that would be faster than light?”

    You understood what I was implying. Using the term “trillion” just means he could have continued the onslaught at FTL speed, but he didn’t.

    ” Besides, if a characters biggest shtick is to do light speed slashes, and someone dodged and caught two extremely easily, it’s pointless to do more.”

    No, his shtick seems to be a SINGLE attack performed at that speed. Which in no way implies the character can move & react that way consistently.
    If someone dodges your punch, you kick, you headbutt, you bulrush, or you punch again with a different arm. The specifics don’t matter, but you certainly don’t “end” the combat if you can continue moving at that speed. The fact of the matter is that said character could not continue moving at that speed.
    Which brings me back to the three points made in my last post.

    “You are aware that light speed is something like 300 million meters per second right?”

    I had no clue. Cheers for enlightening me.

  24. LadyRamkin January 10, 2016 at 12:25 pm -      #24

    HA, enlightening

  25. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 1:14 pm -      #25

    Ok rag, let’s make a scenerio to break down this event.

    2 people, an attacker (A) and defender (D). For the sake of simplicity, let’s say both are 100% equal to eachother in every physical way.

    Here is the breakdown of the event timings.
    A
    Mind reaction time= 1 second
    Body movement time to perform action= 1 second
    B
    ” ”
    ” ”

    A will think about attacking, then attack. D will think about defending, then evade.

    Given equal stats, D is FORCED to react AFTER A attacks. Reaction caused by action.

    When A its starting to swing, D is still thinking about dodging. When A completes the attack, D is only just starting to evade. D gets tagged because the A has the advantage of having the initiative.

    Now, assume nigh equal thought time, but with new action times. A initiates an attack, D thinks about defending. But D somehow completes his evade before A’s attack finishes. D evades faster than A attacks. Saitama evades faster than a light speed slash.

  26. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 1:49 pm -      #26

    “A will think about attacking, then attack. D will think about defending, then evade.
    Given equal stats, D is FORCED to react AFTER A attacks. Reaction caused by action.”

    Incorrect.
    This is only true if D has literally 0 indication of A wanting to attack before hand.
    Then there is also slight movements made in the body to prepare an attack before hand, which once again gives more time to respond.
    Then you need to consider that the 2 characters probably weren’t already touching each other when the attack was made, meaning A needed to close a distance, regardless of how small.

    People dodge punches in everyday life ALL the time. Yet no human being is known to “move” (as in several muscle groups) as fast as a punch moves.

    If you wish to consider that “combat speed”, then by all means go ahead and consider it so. It simply isn’t what I personally consider it.

    “Saitama evades faster than a light speed slash.”

    Why oh why does it seem like you haven’t even read my posts?
    Batman dodges bullets ALL the time.
    Hulk tags people way faster than him ALL the time.
    Predictions, aim-dodging, that’s the most common reason.

    But all that aside, a dodge still isn’t a series of precise movements. It’s a single motion using a single muscle group in a single direction.
    Being able to lunge quickly isn’t the equivalent of throwing a flurry of punches quickly.
    One is combat speed IMO, one is not.

  27. DokuSaki January 10, 2016 at 2:02 pm -      #27

    Saitama has this. His normal punch is calced to near to or at lightspeed. This can be seen in the intro, where it starts off as a normal punch, then sets on fire (mk 4) and then goes white, this is called blue shifting and happens when an object approaches or surpasses the speed of light. Realistically it should be green but i think it’s white for artistic purposes. Also his serious punch is higher than planet busting, his punches away planet busting beam with enough force to push it back. so in other words he would have to be punching with at least the twice the force of the beam to cause that kind of reaction.. Here is a gif of him doing it (vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/onepunchman/images/8/82/SeriousPunch.gif/revision/latest?cb=20151221142711). As for the moon feat i calced it to be about 3/4 the speed of light.

  28. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 10, 2016 at 2:48 pm -      #28

    “Saitama has this. His normal punch is calced to near to or at lightspeed. This can be seen in the intro”
    – I’m… 99.9% sure intros aren’t canon.

    “Also his serious punch is higher than planet busting”
    – He didn’t push the beam back, he punched it in two. And the beam wasn’t planet busting in the same way Yamato’s bankai isn’t, its just… life wipe-y.

  29. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 3:00 pm -      #29

    “This can be seen in the intro, where it starts off as a normal punch, then sets on fire (mk 4) and then goes white, this is called blue shifting and happens when an object approaches or surpasses the speed of light. Realistically it should be green but i think it’s white for artistic purposes.”

    OR its just animation style, eye candy, flare.. You know… The thing that EVERY anime does ALL the time.
    Want me to find instances of pretty much every anime character getting a white glow during one of their hits?
    Using that as a basis for lightspeed is ridiculous.

  30. DokuSaki January 10, 2016 at 3:09 pm -      #30

    ” I’m… 99.9% sure intros aren’t canon.”
    There is nothing in the intro that does nto contradict the content in the manga or anime. If anything it just supports it.

    ” He didn’t push the beam back, he punched it in two. And the beam wasn’t planet busting in the same way Yamato’s bankai isn’t, its just… life wipe-y.”
    This would require even more force than i stated. you do realize that right? Also there are 2 cannon sources that state it could blow up the planet. In the redraw of the manga and the anime. both state it’s planet busting.

  31. sadot06 January 10, 2016 at 3:16 pm -      #31

    “Sooo…. Do we include Frieza and Beerus cause they haven’t shown up yet?”

    I actually will allow the other Saiyins (Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz). But that’s it.

  32. DokuSaki January 10, 2016 at 3:17 pm -      #32

    Sorry for the double post but I did not see Ragnorke’s post.

    “OR its just animation style, eye candy, flare.. You know… The thing that EVERY anime does ALL the time.
    Want me to find instances of pretty much every anime character getting a white glow during one of their hits?
    Using that as a basis for lightspeed is ridiculous.”
    Not really, it’s the only time in the anime it happens, if it was a style then you would expect it every punch which would not happen because that’s standard punch. his serious punch is a lot more damage.

  33. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 10, 2016 at 4:08 pm -      #33

    “There is nothing in the intro that does nto contradict the content in the manga or anime”
    – So? That’s not what canon is based off of. Intros aren’t canon, no more canon than the cover of the volume.

    “This would require even more force than i stated. you do realize that right?”
    – How would only killing everything on earth require more force than blowing up the earth? That doesn’t make any sense.

    “Also there are 2 cannon sources that state it could blow up the planet. In the redraw of the manga and the anime. both state it’s planet busting.”
    – And this is a lie.
    Redraw: [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q-WpbaUHllE/VjlrMuPYCEI/AAAAAAABnMs/3xQdjox60Lc/s16000-Ic42/014.jpg ] “planet’s surface” =/= planet busting.
    The original does say planet destroying but then reduces the force needed to stop it to only destroying the ship. so…

  34. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 4:14 pm -      #34

    “There is nothing in the intro that does nto contradict the content in the manga or anime. If anything it just supports it.”

    That really doesn’t matter.
    Fact remains that it hasn’t occurred in the current canon/plot/timeline.

    Forexample, if the intro of Dragonball Super showed Goku in a new green haired form, or using some new special attack that destroys a galaxy, we wouldn’t use that as his current incarnation until we see it in the show itself.

    A more realistic example for why intros aren’t canon is because we often see characters standing/posing in locations they’ve never actually been to, or standing/interacting with other characters they may have never encountered or met yet.

    “Not really, it’s the only time in the anime it happens, if it was a style then you would expect it every punch which would not happen because that’s standard punch”

    Or it’s just because Intros tend to be flashier than most scenes in the actual show. After all, they do need to build up hype & capture attention.

    In the end of the day, even if it DID happen in the actual show, I still don’t see it as proof of light speed.
    It changes color to white. Great. You said yourself it would realistically be a change to green, so why disregard that fact just because it’s not in line with your theory?
    It IS just a theory, not a basis for proof.

  35. Ragnorke January 10, 2016 at 4:16 pm -      #35

    “This would require even more force than i stated. you do realize that right? Also there are 2 cannon sources that state it could blow up the planet. In the redraw of the manga and the anime. both state it’s planet busting.”

    Killing everyone on a planet and planet busting are leagues apart. Humans are quite fragile creatures, and require VERY specific environmental circumstances to stay alive after all.

    Also, statements are almost never proof/fact. Not unless it’s word of god, and even then we would need detail as to the circumstances.
    Example: Cell stating he can solar bust.

  36. DokuSaki January 10, 2016 at 5:36 pm -      #36

    “So? That’s not what canon is based off of. Intros aren’t canon, no more canon than the cover of the volume.”

    That’s the best example i could think of. and from what we have seen nothing so far has been able to disprove that in the anime. Besides blue shifting only occurs when you see the object upfront.

    ” And this is a lie.”

    I stand corrected, it glasses the planet. Even so more than enough to kill anyone on here. bare in mind that’s his not even trying punch.

    “It changes color to white. Great. You said yourself it would realistically be a change to green, so why disregard that fact just because it’s not in line with your theory?
    It IS just a theory, not a basis for proof.”

    The fact it changes color and does go to the title screen only proves my point. I mean if they wanted to the could of stopped at the flaming point.

  37. Tarbel January 10, 2016 at 6:11 pm -      #37

    A bunch of Saitama speed/power calcs I’ve done:


    I propose a low end, middle, and high end for his power as: 1.5x the feat, 2x the feat, and 3x the feat to estimate as his possible limits, relative to the feat. So for things done with even more ease, Saitama’s upper limits may have a larger set of numbers for ranging from low to high ends, like: 2x,3x,4x, etc.


    -Saitama upper limits punch:
    40.media.tumblr.com/cc1b401597f4f467e8d8447f50811a76/tumblr_nxk0hygOPl1uzwbyjo5_400.jpg
    In this instance, I would attribute the 1.5x multiplier for his upper limits as the low end because Boros said Saitama had not bared his fangs. At the lowest, that could mean he wasn’t trying his hardest, at a respectable 66.66% of his full power; if his upper limit is 1.5x, then the feat divided by his limit would be 1/1.5=66.66%, which is the estimated effort he put into the feat).
    Based on this calc: www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=31015 for the cloud splitting feat, Saitama’s low end punch is at 5.28e25 J (with respect to the calc) and his high end punch at 6.97e^27 J. Now there is a discrepancy in the calc, apparently, where the cloud mass split by the punch isn’t all going at the same speed. I’m going to essentially redo this calc using the numbers from the original calc:
    The main numbers:
    Cloud length: 338px or 4105.62km
    Cloud 1 width: 13px or 157.9km
    Cloud 2 width: 12px or 145.76km
    Distance separated: 63px or 765.2488km
    Timeframe: 1.25s (high end) to 14.36s (low end)
    This means the total energy is Cloud 1 energy + Cloud 2 energy. To get energy, that’s 0.5mv^2. So we need mass and velocity.
    Cloud mass 1 is Cloud length*cloud width*height*density. We have length and width. The height I put at 25,000 feet, or 7.62km, considering that the splitting happens in the northern hemisphere and clouds don’t tend to get much higher in colder regions according to this: www.srh.noaa.gov/jetstream/clouds/images/etages.jpg
    I use the density of air at sea level for this: 1.255 kg/m^3
    Cloud 1 mass is then 6.2e15 kg.
    Same method for Cloud 2 mass gets 5.72e15 kg.
    Total mass = 11.92e15 kg
    The velocity that it parts at: distance over time
    The distance each cloud moves is half of the seperation distance: 765.2488km/2 = 382.6244km
    The low end velocity is then 382.6244km/14.36s = 26,645.1532 m/s
    The high end velocity is 382.6244km/1.25s= 306,099.52 m/s
    But to account for the change in distances moved by the clouds, I half each velocity:
    Low end velocity = 13,322.5766 m/s
    High end velocity = 153,049.76 m/s
    Low end energy of Cloud 1 mass: 5.5e23 J
    Low end energy of Cloud 2 mass : 5.076e23 J
    High end energy of Cloud 1 mass: 7.26e25 J
    High end energy of Cloud 2 mass: 6.7e25 J
    Low end energy of Cloud split: 1.06e24 J
    High end energy of Cloud split: 1.396e26 J
    So the low end of the low end his upper limits punch is ~1.5e24 J (1.5x)
    The high end of the high end of his upper limits punch is ~4.188e26 J (3x)

    The cloud displacement takes place over an area of about 623,356.2846 km^2. The surface of the Earth is ~510 million km^2.
    If Boros’ attack could replicate the area of cloud split over the whole surface area of the Earth, that’d require 818.15x that amount of energy. I’d round that to 1,000x since Boros is ~reliably a planet/surface buster. And then I’ll halve that because you wouldn’t need to actually displace that much air at that speed over the whole surface area of the Earth to completely fuck everything on it. I’m just being lazy here though because, to put it simply, there’s a way to estimate surface wiping with wind speed, wind pressure, and estimated pressure needed to destroy stuff.
    So Saitama’s upper limit punch including Boros’ surface wipe:
    Low end = 7.52e^26 J (1.5x power as Saitama’s upper limit; i.e. he was using 50% of his strength)
    High end = 2.13e^28 J (3x power as Saitama’s upper limit; i.e. he was using 33.33% of his strength)



    Saitama knocked to moon/jump back to earth feat:
    I’ll assume a low end as 10 seconds. I feel any longer would require another panel of Saitama waiting to land somewhere. Any longer would also not make sense with this “Oh? Outer space..” panel as he would’ve noticed that already

    Assuming the moon is as close it can be to earth: 363,104 km
    Moving 36,310,400 m/s as a side effect of a strike. That’s a little over 1/10th of c (3*10^8 m/s).
    If we were to assign Saitama a lanky body weight of 70kg (154 lbs), the energy of such an impact would be 4.61*10^16 J of energy. ~40 megatons of TNT worth of energy, which is almost a Tsar Bomba (50 megatons of TNT).
    So basically, he takes at least 4/5 the energy of the strongest bomb ever tested concentrated as a kick (as I only calculated the resulting energy, not counting any energy absorbed by his body during the impact) with no problems. And replicates this amount of energy right afterward. This is also approximately the speed of one of Boros’ strongest hits, which is implied to probably pale in comparison to Saitama’s hits.
    On a low end, a serious caped baldy can at least strike at a notable fraction of the speed of light, each strike being an at least city buster, and take the same level of hit with no problems, all with no noticeable decrease in strength.



    “Infinite” Side hop feat
    view.thespectrum.net/series/one-punch-man.html?ch=Chapter+063&page=5
    He makes maybe 60 afterimages that overlap.
    The width of the afterimage making space (end to end of the 60 or so baldies) is about 5 meters, estimating Saitama’s stance as about 1 meter and eyeballing it to be about 5 of those stances.
    These are actually just consecutive side hops, meaning Saitama leaps left to right to make the afterimages, in a manner like this:
    view.thespectrum.net/series/one-punch-man.html?ch=Chapter+016&page=3
    view.thespectrum.net/series/one-punch-man.html?ch=Chapter+016&page=4
    If I follow Galorian’s method of calculation:
    forums.spacebattles.com/threads/saber-vs-ichigo.246805/page-4#post-9915038
    Then it takes movement under 1/220th of a second to appear in all those places for a ~peak human (Speed of Sound Sonic is much beyond that). Saitama starts at the center, and the logical course for this would be him moving from the center to the right, then past the center to the left, and repeating while increasing the distance, so the last side hops would be the longest distance traveled at 5 meters.
    For ease of calculating though, and for a low end, I’m going to assume his average distance of a side hop is the smallest normal side hop possible which is roughly 1 meter, enough space for him to complete a full leg span without overlapping himself.
    Saitama will side hop 59 times in order to get 60 after images as he leaves the first after image with his first side hope (his original position and the place he lands, each following side hope will already have the original position counted as the place he lands).
    This means he travels 59 meters at least in the 1/220th of a second:
    That’s 12,980 m/s = Mach 38 as a low end for the average speed traveled. Saitama is moving faster than that since he is constantly starting and stopping his movement.
    For the higher end, an estimation can be setting his average distance for a side hop to the mean of his shortest side hop and his longest side hop, which would be 1 meter and 5 meters respectively. (1+5)/6=3 m
    That’s 3m*59 side hops = 177m traveled in 1/220th of a second.
    High end: 38,940 m/s = Mach 114.5 for the average speed traveled.
    Keep in mind that Speed of Sound Sonic’s perception speed is probably much faster than that of a USAF pilot as mentioned in the Galorian calc.

  38. Neon Lord January 10, 2016 at 8:24 pm -      #38

    “The fact it changes color and does go to the title screen only proves my point. I mean if they wanted to the could of stopped at the flaming point.”

    Sounds like its just a fade transition.

  39. Numinous One January 10, 2016 at 8:31 pm -      #39

    “I believe Bleach characters are still calced (by yours truly) at having the highest combat speed of any of these.”

    How fast?
    Naruto as of The Last was capable of reacting to Toneri’s Golden Rebirth Wheel… beam… being shot straight at him.
    When it was used the first time, we see it increase in length to greater than the moon in a second or so, broken down frame by frame it was calced at around Mach 10000.

    When it was shot at him, he had time to push out his arm, relocate his chakra cloak and condense it onto his hand, keep on running forward and plow right through the beam, from maybe a couple dozen meters away.

  40. pimpmage January 10, 2016 at 8:51 pm -      #40

    “Why oh why does it seem like you haven’t even read my posts?”

    Doesn’t mean shit if I still disagree with you. You don’t see me telling you to reread MY posts if you disagree with me do you?

    “This is only true if D has literally 0 indication of A wanting to attack before hand.”

    As shown in the scans, that WAS the case. Saitama was trying to get some food, soup or something, and he was attacked by the light speed slash guy. Saitama would be completely suprised by the attack. But he dodged it the first time, and caught it the second time.

    “Batman dodges bullets ALL the time.”

    Oh, you mean the classing, ‘Batman strikes a pose while bullets just happen to hit everywhere BUT him’ dodging? Because that ain’t dodging. Thats PIS.

    “Hulk tags people way faster than him ALL the time.”

    If you have a problem with that, (I know nothing bout US comics) Hulk must not be that fast normally. Conclusion? PIS. Must I have to tell you this? You should know of such crappy writing as you are a fan of such media.

    “Predictions, aim-dodging, that’s the most common reason.”

    Or just plain reacting, like what was clearly shown in the scan.

  41. AmericanBadger January 10, 2016 at 8:57 pm -      #41

    Chuck Norris solos.

  42. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 10, 2016 at 9:28 pm -      #42

    “When it was used the first time, we see it increase in length to greater than the moon in a second or so, broken down frame by frame it was calced at around Mach 10000.”
    – You’re assuming it went at that speed the second time too, why? Is there anything to support that assumption?

  43. Friendlysociopath January 10, 2016 at 11:49 pm -      #43

    @Rag
    This might be useful to you for gauging Saitama. I forget whether you enjoy anime or not so if needed the important part is @3:40- particularly 4:15 and onwards.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj4uW5FdZMc

    So the Saiyans are back in then? Assuming they’re at their base stats as of arriving on Earth (and they didn’t power up during their stay so fair enough)
    That leaves Mountain-level Raditz and City-level Nappa. Vegeta actually doesn’t have destruction feats does he? Beyond the claim he’d destroy the planet.

  44. Numinous One January 10, 2016 at 11:59 pm -      #44

    “You’re assuming it went at that speed the second time too, why? Is there anything to support that assumption?”

    Is there any reason to assume the exact same technique used the exact same way, just facing a different direction, would be any slower?

  45. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 11, 2016 at 1:38 am -      #45

    “Is there any reason to assume the exact same technique used the exact same way, just facing a different direction, would be any slower?”
    – There have been many instances wherein a jutsu displays different speed feats based on plot. Plus there’s the whole exhausted vs not exhausted argument one could make which would also effect the technique. Either could be used as an explanation to slow down the jutsu.

  46. pimpmage January 11, 2016 at 2:32 am -      #46

    All in all, the speediest speedsters from bleach could take my idea in comment 1 and solo team 2. I think it can be an incredibly bold strategy that would be quite effective. But which team has the faster speedsters? Team 2 would have to have someone capable of killing Sugar, or there is gonna be problems.

  47. Ragnorke January 11, 2016 at 6:34 am -      #47

    @Doku
    “The fact it changes color and does go to the title screen only proves my point. I mean if they wanted to the could of stopped at the flaming point.”

    The change of color doesn’t “prove” anything though.
    You said yourself it realistically wouldn’t be a change to white, but disregarded it as artstyle or animation style.
    So who gets to decide how far we can disregard fact for animation style?

    You say it was still lightspeed, I say it wasn’t, and we both use “animation style” as our basis for proof. Thus my theory is just as viable as yours as far as BankGambling rules are concerned.
    The difference is that you’re the one making the positive claim without sufficient evidence, whereas i’m merely trying to dispute it.

    So once again, it is just a theory. A theory that you’re welcome to believe in, but not one that can be proven just yet.
    This is all ignoring the fact that intros are not canon to begin with.

    @Numinous
    “Naruto as of The Last was capable of reacting to Toneri’s Golden Rebirth Wheel… beam… being shot straight at him.
    When it was used the first time, we see it increase in length to greater than the moon in a second or so, broken down frame by frame it was calced at around Mach 10000.”

    Reacting to a single projectile/beam (specially from a distance away) is always tricky to gauge.
    Also consider that things like that sometimes accelerate in speed, and don’t start off with a constant velocity.
    Meaning a slower start than end.

    “how fast?”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap5sOGZq07E

    13:50-14:15
    Keep in mind he’s appearing this way to a character that’s in the high sonic range already.

    14:45
    My calc was based on this right here.
    Byakuyas bankai is to turn his swords into billions of sharp rose-like petals.
    They surrounded Ichigo and closed in on his location at once.
    He sliced through every single one, in Byakuyas own words.

    My calc was really low-end, it assumed all the petals were coming from the same direction.

    I’ll have to find the actual numbers from a different post, or worst case scenario i’ll just do it again… but it put Ichigo in relativistic range.
    And this is as “combat speed” as it can get. A Precise & Consistent series of movements.

  48. pimpmage January 11, 2016 at 11:33 am -      #48

    “I’ll have to find the actual numbers from a different post, or worst case scenario i’ll just do it again… but it put Ichigo in relativistic range.”

    What if ichigo cut hundreds, if not tens of thousands with each swing? You, for some reason assume he cut each one individually why?

  49. Ragnorke January 11, 2016 at 11:33 am -      #49

    I should probably point out that speed feat was the very first time Ichigo used his Bankai, meaning lack of experience with it.
    And it was like the very first arc in the bleach series. Episode 50 something.

    In the next arc he got his hollow mask, which was specifically stated to increase his power 50 fold.
    He eventually started to use the hollow mask along with his Bankai.

    Of course going full hollow is more of a power up, but we have no numbers to go with it, so meh.
    Low-end would be 51 times more powerful I suppose.

    In the newer arcs he got the Fullbringer power, which he has also used along with his Bankai.
    Fullbringers were stated to be too fast for Ichigo before he got em, so yea.

  50. Ragnorke January 11, 2016 at 11:46 am -      #50

    @Pimpmage
    “What if ichigo cut hundreds, if not tens of thousands with each swing? You, for some reason assume he cut each one individually why?”

    I DIDN’T assume he cut each individually.
    My calc assumed his sword cut as many petals as possible with the surface area of the sword, and the maximum length his arm would be able to swing.

    However, there was a WAVE of petals coming his way. He cuts one layer of petals, another layer is a millimetre behind it still coming his way.
    THAT’S what makes the feat impressive. He was essentially shredding layer after layer, in every direction.
    And not a single of the billion tiny petals managed to get past.

  51. pimpmage January 11, 2016 at 12:21 pm -      #51

    “However, there was a WAVE of petals coming his way. He cuts one layer of petals, another layer is a millimetre behind it still coming his way.”

    You have seen this alot in anime i’m sure. When people ‘throw’ sword slashes?
    youtu.be/O59iT4FocdY?t=137
    Like that. You are assuming ichigo didnt pull any anime reality warping in that manner. You also assume it’s just based off the surface area of the sword. While plausable, its an anime. People do stuff with swords that are way beyond the actual capabilities of the sword. If I were you, i’d throw more lowballs at it. Like cutting several meters out at a time, and giving the sword a surface area of like 6 inches across.

    Also, were you planning on responding to the ftl saitama stuff?

  52. Ragnorke January 11, 2016 at 12:34 pm -      #52

    @Pimpmage
    “You have seen this alot in anime i’m sure. When people ‘throw’ sword slashes?”

    Ichigos “throw slashes” are called Getsuga Tenshou.
    Typically it gives a blue glow around his sword:
    static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120331090245/betterbleachfanfiction/images/2/25/Getsuga_Tenshou.png
    Or a red one if he’s using his Bankai:
    img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121210135639/bleachfanfiction/images/2/21/Getsuga_Tenshou.jpg

    It’s visually very obvious when he uses it and when he doesn’t. Not to mention he usually screams it out when activating it anyways.

    Most characters have similar techniques/weapons, but a point is always made to name said technique/weapon when it’s used.
    Under regular circumstances it’s just normal sword duals. Specially that early on in the series.

    “You are assuming ichigo didnt pull any anime reality warping in that manner”

    YOU’RE assuming ichigo DID pull anime reality warping. I’m not assuming anything.
    The positive claim is being made by you, with really no justification for it,

    “You also assume it’s just based off the surface area of the sword. While plausable, its an anime.”

    Once again, i’m not assuming anything. I’m pointing out what we visually see, which is regular sword slashes. You’re the one making a baseless assumption.

    “Also, were you planning on responding to the ftl saitama stuff”

    Eventually, sure. More interested in settling the Ichigo thing for now, since I actually watch/enjoy Bleach and know next to nothing about OPM.

  53. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets January 11, 2016 at 12:41 pm -      #53

    “Lets say he hit 1,000 petals per sword swing. (considering the width of that sword, and the size of the petals, he’d actually need close to light speed reaction & senses to pull that off)

    Assuming there were 3 hundred million blades, since Byakuya says “hundreds of millions”. (plural, not singular)

    That’s 300,000 swings in about 2 seconds.
    150,000 per second.

    If you claim he hit more than just a thousand petals per swing, then you also need to admit that his reaction time is even greater, in order to successfully do that.

    A very small percentage of the petals “missed”, considering they were all under direct control.

    Once again, lets just ignore the time taken to stop & turn his sword while changing direction after each swing.

    The “wave” of petals looks to be about 1m in diameter.
    That means he was swinging his sword at a speed of 150,000 m/s

    That’s Mach 435.
    Kinda low end too in my opinion, since he needed to keep changing the blades direction each swing.

    Going back to the “him hitting only a thousand petals per swing”, you need to think about how thin the petals are.
    He needed to make sure that not a single layer of the wave would pass.
    And considering the “wave” wasn’t that wide to begin with, a thousand petals per swing seems very reasonable.
    It would basically be the amount of petals per “layer” of the wave.
    Hope that makes sense.”

    “This dudes Bankai cut the entire town in half, in about a second, while he was purposely holding back its speed.
    He later demonstrates that it’s actually 500 times faster than what he previously showed.

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/4186496-7732280709-15.jp.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/4186498-2576271269-bleac.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/4186499-4284432417-bleac.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/4186500-0688908033-bleac.jpg

    Assuming the town is like 1 kilometer, that they were standing at the mid point, and that the swing took 1 second (saying it took a complete second is pretty high end imo, since these characters are lightning timers+)
    That’s 250,000 m/s, Mach 729.

    Ichigo was dodging it just fine. Without his Hallow Mask or Full Hallowed form.”

    The only two calves speed feats I know of that you did. From MC and IM vs Naruto and Ichigo.

  54. pimpmage January 11, 2016 at 12:50 pm -      #54

    “It’s visually very obvious when he uses it and when he doesn’t. Not to mention he usually screams it out when activating it anyways.”

    They don’t always call out names. And going off of how you mentioned color. .. you are going off of the anime adaptation from the manga?

    “YOU’RE assuming ichigo DID pull anime reality warping. I’m not assuming anything.
    The positive claim is being made by you, with really no justification for it,”

    I’ve seen such reality warping in bleach videos before. Where people casually cut things outside of their sword range. That’s why I am hesitant to believe ichigo DIDN’T do this.

    “Once again, i’m not assuming anything. I’m pointing out what we visually see, which is regular sword slashes. You’re the one making a baseless assumption.”

    It’s not baseless. You see this all this time in both the anime and manga. Depending on the whim of the writer, the regular looking sword can become monomolecular, and thousands of feet long. See that fight between ichigo and that guy with the broken sword. I recall broken sword guy slicing a tower up from a good distance away.

  55. Ragnorke January 11, 2016 at 1:46 pm -      #55

    @Pimpmage
    “They don’t always call out names”

    …Have you watched Bleach?

    ” And going off of how you mentioned color. .. you are going off of the anime adaptation from the manga?”

    The visual effects are still very noticeable in the manga, and i’m quite sure the colors are mentioned too.
    As I said, it’s an actual part of the plot, it’s a technique frequently used, but aside from that swords are just swords.

    “I’ve seen such reality warping in bleach videos before. Where people casually cut things outside of their sword range. That’s why I am hesitant to believe ichigo DIDN’T do this”

    Yea, when they use things like the Getsuna Tenshou or similar techniques.
    Soul Reaper powers, hollow powers, quincy powers, fullbringer powers… They all have certain techniques that enhance the weapons with spirit energy and shit, but as I said it’s always VISUALLY noticeable.

    The weapons themselves never have extended slashing range, it’s the spirit energy that does.
    There was none of that in the feat, and you have no basis for assuming there was.

    “You see this all this time in both the anime and manga”

    But unlike other anime/manga, Bleach has actually provided canon reasons for it… Which WASN’T used in that feat.

    “I recall broken sword guy slicing a tower up from a good distance away.”

    Using a Getsuna. Yeah. How many times do I have to mention that?
    It’s like how Naruto characters can do fancy chakra shit with their hands, but that has nothing to do with their actual punches, it’s just chakra energy. Their punches are still regular punches without it.
    It’s the same case here.

  56. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable January 11, 2016 at 2:33 pm -      #56

    “Using a Getsuna. Yeah. How many times do I have to mention that?”
    – Using reiatsu, you mean. Ichigo is the only one who can use Getsuga. I think Pimp’s talkin’ a Kenpatchi in this fight [ www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ZHo5xqf2c ] at ~21:40.
    In Bleach fighting is a battle between the reiatsu of person A and person B (its explained in that video and in the Aizen vs most of the Gotei 13 captains fight), and that cutting without touching thing is something exclusively done by reiatsu, so fighting someone nullifies that to an extent such that its almost nonexistent… unless both combatants have huge wells of reiryoku and a ton of reiatsu like Kenny and Ichigo do, than it causes an explosion, obviously.

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