Samus Aran: Power Armor Gauntlet

samus-aran-power-armor-gauntlet

Suggested by  Mea quidem sententia

All characters are their current incarnation, except Samus. Her incarnation will be based after Metroid II: Return of Samus (RoS). Any character who has a story mode must remain true to their story mode. This means any character who has a story mode is only permitted to using story mode equipment. For example, while Dragonborn could learn to use magic or be thieving, he would only be granted scaled armor and steel weapons. He would also be a warrior, not a mage or thief. This is what I mean by story mode only. All characters will also be granted innate abilities (skill). If a character like Samus didn’t demonstrate the ability to use concentration in RoS, she will be allowed this, only because the time between RoS and Metroid: Other M never grants Samus a time to learn this ability as this period immediately follows one after another. So it is for everyone else.

Challengers

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158 Comments on "Samus Aran: Power Armor Gauntlet"

  1. Ninja Lowk January 9, 2016 at 7:35 pm -      #1

    “I’m not arguing speed. I’m arguing distance. To be considered point blank is one meter or less. That scene shows Sam 2 meters away.”

    Which is about the difference of 2 milliseconds. And that was him being pretty casual about it.
    ===
    “I’m also pointing out that the gun isn’t accurate.”

    Accurate or not that doesn’t negate the bullets he slice out of the air.
    ===
    “I’m saying that he’s only that fast in blade mode.”

    He’s fast enough to block bullets while not in blade mode.
    ===
    “That QTE is after Raiden gives him a large cut chest to stomach.”

    The same type of thing happened before that which lead to that event in the first place.
    1st event he was fast enough to parry resulting in Raiden disarming him.
    2nd Event was the cut on the chest.
    3rd Event was Where Raiden again parries him leading up the final blow, again before Sam can react.
    Without Blade mode Raiden is about equal to Sam a little under before the new body but more so with the New on. With Blade mode he surpasses Sam.
    ===
    “Not point blank casually, but close range casually.”

    According to how you define it we are talking about a very small difference.
    ===
    “Right, but my point is that Sam is still moving while in that by backflips or running. Last time I checked”

    Even without Blade mode Raiden is still close to Sam’s level. Blade mode puts him over that which is evident by the events qte and small events in the game.
    ===
    “When you get close up, they switch to swords”

    Okay. However, regarding block a hail of gunfire:
    Just like closer range reduces the time they have to act, so does the number of threats reduce the time you have to act due to their frequency/proximity to one another. You block one but then you have much less time to switch to the next compared to the first because it was already in flight.

  2. Aelfinn January 9, 2016 at 8:28 pm -      #2

    @Alpha
    “The manuals state several times that the speed is supersonic.
    She breaks through barriers which require her to run at super sonic speeds.
    Furthermore, she creates mach cones, and plows through several layers of stone without any loss of speed.”


    Let me say it once more: if you call that supersonic, then you have to throw out every calculation relying on the environment, because it simply isn’t, in any sense of the word, crossing 343 meters in one second. The environment is clearly inaccurate to “reality”, and therefore shouldn’t be used for calculations.
    =
    “The missiles, as I said before, have visual differences that makes it different than the missiles that are claimed to be mach 3.”

    Very slight differences, but a missile is still a missile, and Mach 3 is a common speed for missiles of all manner of designs.
    =
    “Remember she can tank nukes?”

    She can survive a bomb that puts out the energy of a nuke in terms of THERMAL energy (and I’m still doubtful about that), but that doesn’t mean she survived the pressure and concussive blast of a nuke. The bomb had a vastly different ratio of energies put out than an actual nuke, and there are vastly different forces involved. It takes hundreds of degrees to melt diamonds, but you can still smash them with a hammer.
    =
    “How? Jetstream Sam doesn’t swing at mach speeds, and also, he doesn’t run or dodge at mach speeds. Yet, Jetstream Sam is moving slowly but not motionless relative to Raiden.”

    Yes he does, we see him deflect bullets from point-blank range. That’s Mach speeds.
    =
    “The super vampire can’t throw knives at super sonic speeds.”

    Still, it was a slower body. If your body can’t move fast enough, your mental reactions don’t mean anything.
    =
    “I showed a clip where the bullets move in MP2:Echoes.”

    Weren’t bullets.
    =
    “And like I said before, the shockwave is short ranged, and when it collides with enemies, that aren’t flying at mach speeds. They are flying at speeds slower than mach 1.”

    Well yeah, air loses velocity and momentum pretty damn quickly unless you put in a LOT of energy (nuke amounts). Also, something light-weight and not dense at all will not be able to accelerate something heavy and very dense up to its speed. Air is very very very very very light and not-dense. Of course someone hit by supersonic air is not going to move at supersonic speeds.
    =
    “The point of that argument was to say that specific move was different from the rest and shouldn’t be used to scale all the other moves with.”

    Well certainly…but that one move is very supersonic, possibly hypersonic I should be able to do a calc in a bit.
    =
    “Which he only does in gameplay, and that can be pointed out as a game mechanic.”

    Again, just because it happens in gameplay doesn’t make it a game mechanic. It is obvious that creators of the game wanted to display Raiden as someone who can deflect bullets at close range.
    =
    “This same exact scenario happens when you parry or block an enemy attack. It’s a game mechanic to help players. Also, when you fail or miss a weak point, it goes back to velocity A instead of staying at velocity B which shows it’s a game mechanic. Furthermore, his swings are at the same speed no matter how slowed down it gets.”

    Yes, of course Raiden’s swings would stay the same speed. He’s always normal speed to himself, showing that the time slow is in effect. So you’re saying that because it has some kind of in-game function it must be a game mechanic? That entire philosophy and approach is inherently incorrect. Just because it helps players doesn’t make it a game mechanic.
    =
    “Also, even if you are true, that really doesn’t change the fact that objects such as the vehicles thrown at Raiden in the Monsoon and Sundowner fight is slower than mach 1. “

    I don’t think we can confirm or deny this. Against Armstrong, the next object he throws is always right behind the one Raiden just cut, demonstrating impressive speeds. Hell in the Monsoon fight, the objects cross the distance to Raiden without the rain-drops moving even the slightest fraction of an inch.
    =
    “Metroid Other M, which takes chronologically after the MPT shows the Galactic Federation still shows the troopers using mass produced ballistic weaponry”.

    From what I could learn, the guns in MPT use power cells of some kind, which does not match up with ballistic weaponry. Especially considering the fact that Other M was made by entirely different people, I don’t think it can be used as backward-proof of ballistics in MP2E.
    =
    If you want to go that far, we can say that Raiden is blocking bullets slower than mach speeds since we don’t see them cover less than 343 meters in a second.

    There’s a significant difference here, and one on multiple levels. Firstly, those bullets are “slow” in gameplay, whereas we can see those blaster shots are slow in a cutscene, which makes it a more accurate representation. Secondly, the bullets in MGR are clearly supposed to be bullets that act similarly to real-life ones. That’s the basis that the creator assumes: people will see this and think “ah, real-life bullets”. The bullets have to be slowed down in order for humans playing the game to react to them. This is the same exact reason Samus doesn’t actually go Mach speeds in-gameplay when she uses the Mach-booster-speed-thing. They are both slowed down to make more enjoyable play. However, Raiden is clearly represented as a man who can deflect bullets at point-blank range, whereas we don’t know what speed the blaster cannons are supposed to be. We know the Mach booster’s speed is inaccurate in-game, so to use its in-game speed in order to contradict what we can see in-cutscene is the incorrect manner to approach the hierarchy of canon.
    =
    “Are you literally willing to say that the distance Samus runs at that moment is more than 1 meter?”

    Yes, I absolutely am. Considering the size differences, environmental differences, and everything of that nature in the motherbrain fight as shown in Metroid M as compared to Super Metroid should show that there are limitations the old games had to deal with.
    =
    “And as I’ve pointed out before, the official game trailer shows a trailer in gameplay and the image is also taken from gameplay.”

    Well yes, but that’s still the official representation that the creators wanted to put out. When they put their name on a trailer, they say that that is an official representation of the game. Furthermore, the image is not from gameplay.
    =
    “He doesn’t block all of them.”

    How about against Ray, when he has the multitude of machine guns all pointed at him at once?
    =
    “On the other hand, Raiden struggles to kill Armstrong with this strength. Even if you want to use that, Samus has held a star’s core.
    “The Magmaul, powered by a hyperstatic hydrogen core, fires cohesive projectiles of superheated magma.”
    On the other hand, Samus can wield the magmaul which has a hyperstatic core, otherwise a star’s core. Her suit can withstand the pressure of a star’s core.”


    That’s a feat for Armstrong, then, not a detriment to Raiden. Also, just because part of her suit can allegedly withstand the pressure of a star’s core (it’s not the same pressure, it doesn’t have the same amount of mass pushing down on it), doesn’t mean that all of it can. A nuclear reactor can’t handle a nuke being dropped on it. A tank barrel can’t handle being hit by a tank shell. A gun can’t handle being hit by a bullet. I could go on but that’s my point.
    =
    =
    =
    @Mea
    “I see Raiden struggling to lift Excelsus, but to assuming he’s exerting 2.45 * 10^6 N is faulty. Yes, lifting that monstrosity was impressive as hell, but let me explain. We get to observe Raiden use the arm or whatever from the Excelsus as a weapon, and it isn’t the fastest he’s ever moved his arms. “

    The Metric Tons was only for the sword, not for the entire Excelsus.
    =
    “I wouldn’t say the way the gunfire in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes was stellar, but I would suspect that military weaponry, at least when it comes to small arms fire and machine guns reach the speed of sound, if not supersonic. That just seems to be the typical speed range. I wouldn’t say Samus is even moving at the speed of sound in turns of running speed. After all, the speed booster isn’t present in that game.

    I wouldn’t say Raiden’s speed is even Mach 3, either. I can only think of the freight train for Raiden’s running speed. Surprisingly, when I did the missile calculation, I ended up with Mach 3.5. However, from the Collector’s Edition from Metal Gear Solid IV, Raiden’s top speed was placed at 45 km/h, or 28 mi/h. So, unless Raiden’s running was improved with the new cybernetics, that would canonically be his speed.

    I don’t think I need to show Samus surviving being slammed into the ground at Mach 5 – 7, since I never made the claim that she’d become paste. He who asserts must prove. So the onus is on you. Given that the varia suit has demonstrated the ability to reduce force (never mind that Samus handles blunt force pretty damn well), if we worked with Mach 5, then that’d be reduced 15.01 tons-force for Samus.”


    “Suspicions” of Mach speeds does not constitute proof. On the subject of the missiles, perhaps Raiden can only jump like that quickly. Either that…or in-game speeds of projectiles are consistent with their true speed, and the blaster shots aren’t actually faster than the speed of sound, especially because we have cutscenes directly contradicting that.

    I don’t need to prove Samus can survive being slammed into the ground 17 times in a second at Mach 5. That would paste a normal human. Prove that Samus’ body can survive that kind of impact against her suit.
    =
    =
    =
    =
    @Alpha
    “This also accounting for the fact that Sam doesn’t run or backflips at mach speeds, and he isn’t as slowed down.”

    Considering that Blade Mode needs to be sped up on the order of 16 to 64 times in order to approach normal speeds, and that Sam’s sword swings are supersonic, Sam’s movements are still very very fast. The speed in-game is likely inconsistent to allow players to react to them.
    =
    ” I also want to point out that he was only like that throughout the Monsoon fight because he was impaled earlier and used that same pain to maintain that. After the Monsoon fight, it turns off and it requires electrolytes for Raiden to activate it.”

    Raiden’s Ripper Mode also activates when Blade Wolf doesn’t act nice to Raiden. You can be at full health in the fight against Monsoon and you’ll still be in Ripper Mode. Furthermore, nowhere does it say that during the Monsoon fight he was drawing on his pain to maintain the mode. Sure, he used the pain to activate Ripper Mode, but that doesn’t mean it maintains it. The requirement of electrolytes is pretty clearly game mechanics to avoid breaking the game, but even if it weren’t the drain of them surely are.

  3. Aelfinn January 9, 2016 at 9:07 pm -      #3

    So let’s say that Metal Gear Ray was firing at Raiden with two gun emplacements at the same time. Hell, each placement had four machine guns attached to it, and they appear to be firing all at the same time.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypphRK14t8

    We’ll assume that one is 51 meters away and the other is 49 meters away.

    The guns were likely similar to 50-cals, considering their size, and the fact that often those guns are linked in that manner.

    They have a muzzle velocity of 890 m/s.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning

    Now, if we assume that the one from 49 meters gets to him first, that would take 0.055 seconds to react to. Not bad. After that, though, he has approximately one meter to deal with all the other bullets from that gun, or 0.0011 seconds. That’s 0.00037 seconds for each one. He then has to keep that up, as he now has to deal with the four bullets from the OTHER gun, and he has to deal with them all in one meter. This pushes his RT down to 0.00028 seconds.

    Crossing one meter in that time requires speeds of 3560 m/s, or Mach 10.

  4. Aelfinn January 9, 2016 at 9:22 pm -      #4

    Now, grenades don’t make people go flying back, but let’s say that Raiden’s air push thing was about equivalent to two grenades or a scuba tank. That’s 3000 psi.

    filmschoolrejects.com/features/could-you-really-kill-jaws-with-a-scuba-tank-and-a-rifle.php

    www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~lutze/AOE3104/p203ans.pdf

    2.068 * (10^7) Pascals = 101325 Pascals + 1/2(1.225 kg/m^3)(velocity)^2

    Velocity = 5797 m/s
    Mach 16.9
    =
    Throwing that out there.

  5. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 12:14 am -      #5

    Sorry, due to the 5 link limit, I may have to post some stuff individually
    /
    @Lowk
    “Which is about the difference of 2 milliseconds. And that was him being pretty casual about it.”
    /
    I’m okay with that.
    /
    “Accurate or not that doesn’t negate the bullets he slice out of the air.”
    /
    True, but I’m saying they’re not super sonic.
    /
    “He’s fast enough to block bullets while not in blade mode.”
    /
    Not at point blank which doesn’t mean super sonic speeds.
    /
    “The same type of thing happened before that which lead to that event in the first place.
    1st event he was fast enough to parry resulting in Raiden disarming him.”
    /
    youtu.be/h9odEW41JO8?t=103
    Except he also gives you a tell with a delayed swing and red eyes, so you can block before he strikes. That leaves Sam off guard and open to blade mode.
    /
    “2nd Event was the cut on the chest.”
    /
    That event is cause by any sword strike
    youtu.be/h9odEW41JO8?t=161
    Notice how Raiden can use one of the skills from 3 meters away.
    /
    “3rd Event was Where Raiden again parries him leading up the final blow, again before Sam can react.”
    /
    youtu.be/h9odEW41JO8?t=257
    That third event also has a tell where you can simply block before he strikes since he has another tell and red eyes.
    Also at that point, he already suffered a wound and has blood loss.
    /
    “Without Blade mode Raiden is about equal to Sam a little under before the new body but more so with the New on. With Blade mode he surpasses Sam.”
    /
    To be fair, Sam gives tells in his battles against Raiden. When he’s about to strike and such.
    /
    “According to how you define it we are talking about a very small difference.”
    /
    youtu.be/ysBLfZhGWvQ?t=164
    from this point to 2:47
    And rate of fire. I want to point out that at one point it goes at slow motion when Sam jumps. We see that it wasn’t slowed down enough that we don’t see bullets moving to a crawl and Sam is still moving from that jump.
    2:48-2:49
    And then when Sam blocks we see only three deflections and it takes a whole second for three rounds to come out. This cutscene shows the gun shooting 3 rps.
    That fire rate is 3 times slower than an AK-47 and requires less than a super sonic swings to block, especially since that’s 2 meters away as well.
    /
    “Even without Blade mode Raiden is still close to Sam’s level. Blade mode puts him over that which is evident by the events qte and small events in the game.”
    /
    Given the rate of fire and considering that it was done from 2 meters away, there’s enough evidence to say that Sam doesn’t swing at super sonic speeds.
    /
    “Okay. However, regarding block a hail of gunfire:
    Just like closer range reduces the time they have to act, so does the number of threats reduce the time you have to act due to their frequency/proximity to one another. You block one but then you have much less time to switch to the next compared to the first because it was already in flight.”
    /
    Their aim is also not accurate as shown when they are shooting at the building while Raiden is running.
    I also noticed this
    youtu.be/7GKLHecEKP8?t=644
    Raiden only swings twice and he’s given time to block 2 out of five bullets. We see most of the rounds miss and whizz by. The Mak-200 has a rate of fire of 5 rps. That’s almost three times slower than the FN F2000 which shoots 14.16 rps.
    /
    While it’s true that there’s stuff with hallways, but as shown above with the video, Raiden is running straight towards the enemy and three out of five shots are missed. Raiden can block even less simply by zigzagging. Or, he avoid hallway encounters by simply using the radar and throw a red phosphorus grenade or hologram to prevent fire. And, depending on it, Raiden can get close in without realizing it.
    This is without accounting for the mak-200’s slow rate of fire.

  6. Friendlysociopath January 10, 2016 at 12:35 am -      #6

    The requirement of electrolytes is pretty clearly game mechanics to avoid breaking the game, but even if it weren’t the drain of them surely are.

    Too sick to do a lot but Raiden gets upgrades does he not? Including new bodies, abilities, and weapons?
    Would this include the upgrade that makes him never run out of energy? People mention 100% a lot so I thought I’d mention it.

  7. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 12:55 am -      #7

    @Aelfinn
    “Let me say it once more: if you call that supersonic, then you have to throw out every calculation relying on the environment, because it simply isn’t, in any sense of the word, crossing 343 meters in one second. The environment is clearly inaccurate to “reality”, and therefore shouldn’t be used for calculations.”
    /
    Actually, it’s not the distance, it’s more likely going slow to the point where we can react in real time.
    youtu.be/BQOtaopoOqc?t=560
    For example, Kraid’s huge belly projectiles which are large which means more air resistances, somehow stays airborne at 2 m/s and plows through several tons of stone without loss of speed.
    This most likely means M:ZM is a slowed down version of what we’re actually seeing, or possibly going from Samus point of view. Metroid Zero Mission also happens to be a narrative from Samus’ point of view where she talks using “I”s and “me” to the audience.
    This also matches up with the manga where we see Kraid’s projectiles are a blur.
    www.metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_2_en/ch_0015/scaled/sc_metroid_v2_ch15_116.png
    Then in Metroid Zero Mission again, the weapon the Space Pirates uses look slow to the point you could dodge it.
    youtu.be/Q0LyH-XVd8I?t=86
    In the manga, it looks fast and longer than it usually is in the game.
    www.metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0003/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch003_020.png
    www.metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0006/scaled/sc_metroid_c06_044.png
    So, Metroid Zero Mission is simply a slow down version compared to what is actually happening thanks to Kraid’s projectiles and the manga. This makes sense since Samus running at super sonic speeds is looks relatively slow.
    /
    “Very slight differences, but a missile is still a missile, and Mach 3 is a common speed for missiles of all manner of designs.”
    /
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder#cite_note-SP-1
    On the fifth paragraph under design, it says that it has an acceleration of 200m/s^2 and requires 5 seconds before it’s armed.
    “Recent models of the AIM-9 are configured with an annular-blast fragmentation warhead, the WDU-17B by Argotech Corporation. The case is made from spirally wound spring steel filled with 8 pounds (4 kg) of PBXN-3 explosive. The warhead features a safe/arm device requiring five seconds at 20 g (~200 m/s²) acceleration before the fuze is armed, giving a minimum range of approximately 2.5 kilometers.”
    So, it requires a bit of time before it reaches mach 2.7,(4.59 seconds) this is less than the time in the game where the missiles took 1-2 seconds for each jump, giving each missile the velocity of about 200m/s to 400m/s.
    /
    “She can survive a bomb that puts out the energy of a nuke in terms of THERMAL energy (and I’m still doubtful about that), but that doesn’t mean she survived the pressure and concussive blast of a nuke. The bomb had a vastly different ratio of energies put out than an actual nuke, and there are vastly different forces involved. It takes hundreds of degrees to melt diamonds, but you can still smash them with a hammer.”
    /
    That’s for the power bomb as I pointed out. Not the omega cannon which explodes on physical contact or the hyper beam which is a massive laser that can destroy materials that could partially survive the large explosion that came from the core seen in Metroid Zero Mission Mother Brain’s self destruct..

  8. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 1:04 am -      #8

    @FriendlySociopath
    “Too sick to do a lot but Raiden gets upgrades does he not? Including new bodies, abilities, and weapons?
    Would this include the upgrade that makes him never run out of energy? People mention 100% a lot so I thought I’d mention it.”
    /
    Those are cosmetics, and the cutscenes show Raiden without wearing them, so Raiden doesn’t use them or doesn’t have them.

  9. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 1:47 am -      #9

    Let’s start with the subject on Samus running from one area to the next without being noticed by Kreatz and the space pirates.

    www.metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0003/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch003_013.png

    Here, we can see Samus is quite a distance away.

    www.metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_1_en/ch_0003/scaled/sc_metroid_v01_ch003_016.png

    Here are the space pirates about to kill Damara.

    www.metroid-database.com/manga/?vid=19&cid=57#manga_top

    And here, we can see the space pirates have already fired, but they’re taken aback at the fact that beams have fired back. It’s pretty amazing that Samus got there in time.

    www.metroid-database.com/manga/official_vol_2_en/ch_0015/scaled/sc_metroid_v2_ch15_119_120.png

    Here, Samus is seen as a blur while running up Kraid. Samus doesn’t have the speed booster during this time. In fact, we never see the speed booster acquired, whereas bombs, missiles, the varia suit, wave, and ice beam are. That seems rather consistent with the original Metroid for the NES, actually.

    How fast does it take for an eye to pick up an image? Well, it only takes 13 milliseconds for the eye to see an image.

    news.mit.edu/2014/in-the-blink-of-an-eye-0116

    So, if this can be properly done, the space pirates have their arms out. Their arms are about 50 cm. away, but they’re probably just a meter away, and Samus has to cover that distance. Let’s use 12 ms, since it’s less than 13 ms, the time it takes to see an image. 1 m. / 0.012 s = 83.33 m/s. This is higher than 30 m/s for Samus’ top speed without the varia suit’s 10% increase in RoS.

    Originally, I used this source below to find the the speed of a powdered avalanche, which is 25 m/s on the low-end. I’ve been using the low-end. However, a large powder avalanche ranges between 60 to 90 m/s. So 83.33 m/s (186.34 mi/h) isn’t bad. That tends to be pretty close to the concept of “faster than the eye can see”. I recall that speed being at least 200 mi/h on the low-end.

    www.avalanche.org/moonstone/zoning/avalanche%20dynamics.htm

  10. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 2:13 am -      #10

    @Friendlysociopath
    Yes. The newborn is a boy. I wanted a girl, but I’m not complaining. I’m pretty happy, actually. I named him Pascal, after Blaise Pascal, whose surname is used in the International System of Units (SI) for pressure. I was indecisive for boy names, but I like Pascal for a name.

    Trains only slow down when reaching a flag station, and only if there is a flag or prospective passengers. I never watched the entire video involving Raiden on a train. But, if the train was slowing down, then that could explain the reason why Raiden caught up. I never see Raiden use his speed for anything, well, at least from what I’ve been shown. I’ve only seen him use his reaction time, swift shredding, and cybernetically enhanced strength.

    It appears excepted tracks for freight trains travel less than 10 mi/h. Class I is 10 mi/h. Class II is 25 mi/h. That would explain once again why Raiden could catch up to the freight train and still be consistent with his body’s speed prior to the new body. I’m not aware of Raiden getting faster afterwards, or if his running speed is even brought up. In the game, his speed appears to remain static from his old and new body.

    Unless there is a reason to doubt “official canon”, I’m going to stick with what we is plainly stated.

  11. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 2:33 am -      #11

    youtu.be/6AZvjtLfUBc?t=291
    This post is suppose to go with poast 107 that’s in moderation.
    Here, you can compare speeds of the beam to Samus speed booster in this large room. You can see that Samus’ beam is faster than the speed booster in comparison, and this lines up with the other times the beams are faster than the speed booster in Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and Fusion. This also lines up with the games being faster than it should be since it’s a game with a large amount improved graphics.
    /
    @Aelfinn
    “Yes he does, we see him deflect bullets from point-blank range. That’s Mach speeds.”
    /
    No, we don’t. It’s from 2 meters, from a gun that’s barely accurate and has a slower rate of fire than real life equivalents.
    /
    “Still, it was a slower body. If your body can’t move fast enough, your mental reactions don’t mean anything.”
    /
    It was the same body that could do ninja run, so Raiden failing to block those knives shows he has to block bullets from a farther distance.
    /
    “Weren’t bullets.”
    /
    The gunfire sounds similar to bullets more than energy weapons. Furthermore, it’s muzzle flash is different than Samus’ weapons which are beam weapons.
    Also, the newer Metroid game not featuring Samus shows specialized mecha with energy weapons and are clearly different than the Federation trooper’s guns.
    The only thing the Galactic Federation manage to replicate for normal troopers is the missile launcher. By the time Other M came along, they only made cheap copies of the ice beam and plasma beams, yet the soldiers still have ballistic weaponry.
    /
    “Well yeah, air loses velocity and momentum pretty damn quickly unless you put in a LOT of energy (nuke amounts). Also, something light-weight and not dense at all will not be able to accelerate something heavy and very dense up to its speed. Air is very very very very very light and not-dense. Of course someone hit by supersonic air is not going to move at supersonic speeds.”
    /
    What I mean was that move can be done at close range or melee range. When hit by Raiden’s arm, they don’t move at mach speeds.
    There are even lighter enemies such as the tripods and they don’t go very far or fast.
    /
    “Again, just because it happens in gameplay doesn’t make it a game mechanic. It is obvious that creators of the game wanted to display Raiden as someone who can deflect bullets at close range.”
    /
    Well then, as I said before, Pit dodging lasers from 5 meters away is now legit since the description says he can dodge projectiles as long as he’s not tired, and the video tutorial shows it. Yeah, I guess the devs wanted to show Pit dodging close range lasers.
    /
    “Yes, of course Raiden’s swings would stay the same speed. He’s always normal speed to himself, showing that the time slow is in effect. So you’re saying that because it has some kind of in-game function it must be a game mechanic? That entire philosophy and approach is inherently incorrect. Just because it helps players doesn’t make it a game mechanic.”
    /
    Yet, you didn’t answer why Raiden goes back to velocity A or get knocked out of blade mode if he fails.
    Furthermore, why don’t we see a faster drop in electrolytes when this happens?
    /
    “I don’t think we can confirm or deny this.”
    /
    We can. Heck, the alarm and warning timer when Raiden gets caught shows it going down at the same time as real life, and the objective markers where you need to go uses meters.
    /
    ” Against Armstrong, the next object he throws is always right behind the one Raiden just cut, demonstrating impressive speeds.”
    /
    That doesn’t mean he can throw the object really fast. That means his pick and throw rate is fast. The objects thrown at Raiden also happen to be slow.
    /
    “Hell in the Monsoon fight, the objects cross the distance to Raiden without the rain-drops moving even the slightest fraction of an inch.”
    /
    …The rain drops have a terminal velocity of 8m/s and that is only in blade mode. Furthermore in the same boss fight, vehicles when thrown at subsonic speeds still look subsonic even if we go with the velocity A to velocity B theory.
    /
    “From what I could learn, the guns in MPT use power cells of some kind, which does not match up with ballistic weaponry. Especially considering the fact that Other M was made by entirely different people, I don’t think it can be used as backward-proof of ballistics in MP2E.”
    /
    The guns don’t have power cells. They have a feed and load ammunition supported by the trooper logs left behind. The only source I see that says power cells is Metroid Wikia.
    Tv Tropes says otherwise.
    tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/MetroidGalacticFederation
    “Kinetic Weapons Are Just Better: Zig-Zagged. “Echoes” shows their kinetic weapons far quicker at killing an enemy type then your power beam in cutscene, but less powerful when turned on you, and they have limited ammo. They develop a Phazon powered weapon that’s superior, but the destruction of Phazon after Corruption means there back to kinetics by Other M. Their version of Samus’ Plasma Beam is much stronger then said kinetics, but has enough disadvantages (most notably slow fire rate) to make it situational at best.”
    /
    Furthermore, the only people who have special beam weaponry are like the guys who are wearing the mechs in the upcoming game, the 07th platoon, and P.E.D. troopers only under hyper mode.
    Also, while Metroid Other M and MPT were made by different people, they were both overlooked by Yoshio Sakamoto and Tenebe.
    /
    “There’s a significant difference here, and one on multiple levels. Firstly, those bullets are “slow” in gameplay,”
    /
    Except gameplay has seconds used in alarms and meters used for distances. The seconds and meters are pretty much equivalent to ours since time goes down at the same time as ours. And, the meters matches up with the characters stated height.
    /
    “whereas we can see those blaster shots are slow in a cutscene, which makes it a more accurate representation.”
    /
    We also see slow bullets in cutscene as well. Furthermore, the physics of Kraid’s projectile and manga support that gameplay is slower than what is actually happening.
    Even Other M, a game that has more technological improvements than the other 2D Metroid games, show something supersonic as slow (ie, the bullets from Federation Troopers and Speed Booster).
    /
    “Secondly, the bullets in MGR are clearly supposed to be bullets that act similarly to real-life ones.”
    /
    That was only true for Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear Rising is made under a different team.
    /
    “That’s the basis that the creator assumes: people will see this and think “ah, real-life bullets”.”
    /
    The creator for Metal Gear Rising is different than Metal Gear Solid. Also, the devs seem to make gameplay time frame and distances similar to ours.
    /
    “The bullets have to be slowed down in order for humans playing the game to react to them. This is the same exact reason Samus doesn’t actually go Mach speeds in-gameplay when she uses the Mach-booster-speed-thing. They are both slowed down to make more enjoyable play. However, Raiden is clearly represented as a man who can deflect bullets at point-blank range, whereas we don’t know what speed the blaster cannons are supposed to be.”
    /
    Raiden isn’t depicted as point blank bullet timing. Jetstream Sam is the only depicted close enough to that.
    /
    “We know the Mach booster’s speed is inaccurate in-game, so to use its in-game speed in order to contradict what we can see in-cutscene is the incorrect manner to approach the hierarchy of canon.”
    /
    Actually, the speed of the beams of the cutscene and gameplay aren’t all that different. If you compare the scenes where Samus shoots at the Brug Mass and Ferrocrusher, the speeds aren’t that far different. Furthermore, the manga that Metroid has says that everything is simply slowed down.
    /
    Yes, I absolutely am. Considering the size differences, environmental differences, and everything of that nature in the motherbrain fight as shown in Metroid M as compared to Super Metroid should show that there are limitations the old games had to deal with.
    /
    “Well yes, but that’s still the official representation that the creators wanted to put out. When they put their name on a trailer, they say that that is an official representation of the game. Furthermore, the image is not from gameplay.”
    /
    Well then, Pit has literal laser timing from 5 meters away since they put it into the tutorial and say that he can keep dodging projectiles.
    /
    “How about against Ray, when he has the multitude of machine guns all pointed at him at once?”
    /
    You mean the same Ray that can’t move his gun fast enough to aim at Ray. The same one where there’s a lot of spread for the bullets and done from several meters away?
    /
    “That’s a feat for Armstrong, then, not a detriment to Raiden.”
    /
    Yes it is. Raiden, who’s stronger than Sam(where Sam is over powered by Raiden) took more time to cut through Armstrong than Sam did.
    /
    “Also, just because part of her suit can allegedly withstand the pressure of a star’s core (it’s not the same pressure, it doesn’t have the same amount of mass pushing down on it), doesn’t mean that all of it can. A nuclear reactor can’t handle a nuke being dropped on it. A tank barrel can’t handle being hit by a tank shell. A gun can’t handle being hit by a bullet. I could go on but that’s my point.””
    /
    The arm cannon has the same amount of materials and shielding as the rest of the suit. No matter where Samus is hit, she takes the same amount of damage..
    While it doesn’t have the same pressure as a star, the core of the star itself has temperatures and pressures sufficient to ignite nuclear fusion. The earth’s core doesn’t.
    Plus, even if that was discredited, Samus has literally been in the core of Zebes, a planet whose mass is several times that of earth, with no ill effect.

  12. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 2:49 am -      #12

    @Aelfinn
    “Suspicions” of Mach speeds does not constitute proof. On the subject of the missiles, perhaps Raiden can only jump like that quickly.”
    /
    As I said before, the missiles require about 4.5 seconds to reach mach 2.7. By the time he jumps on the missile, they were only out for one or two seconds. (200m/s or 400 m/s)
    /
    “Either that…or in-game speeds of projectiles are consistent with their true speed, and the blaster shots aren’t actually faster than the speed of sound, especially because we have cutscenes directly contradicting that.”
    /
    The manga suggests that everything in the game is slower than it should be. Both the cutscene heavy and gameplay of Metroid Other M show the beam going the same speed, and the beam is faster than the speed booster.
    On the other hand for Metal Gear Rising the gameplay shows the timeframe and the distances similar to real life and shows slow bullets.
    Even in the cutscene I posted above shows slow rate of fire for the bullets and a large spread.
    /
    “I don’t need to prove Samus can survive being slammed into the ground 17 times in a second at Mach 5. That would paste a normal human. Prove that Samus’ body can survive that kind of impact against her suit.”
    /
    Mea literally calculated Samus can survive that from the fall.
    Furthermore, it’s not Raiden’s MO to slam a person into the ground 17 times. He doesn’t do this to mooks, bosses, or Metal Gears.
    /
    “Considering that Blade Mode needs to be sped up on the order of 16 to 64 times in order to approach normal speeds,”
    /
    1 second/64 is only 15 milliseconds.
    /
    “and that Sam’s sword swings are supersonic,”
    /
    I literally showed the scene where Sam blocks the bullets took 3 swings in one second.
    /
    “Sam’s movements are still very very fast. The speed in-game is likely inconsistent to allow players to react to them.”
    /
    Sam’s movements aren’t bullet speed.
    /
    “Raiden’s Ripper Mode also activates when Blade Wolf doesn’t act nice to Raiden.”
    /
    Which is only temporarily and used as humor.
    /
    “You can be at full health in the fight against Monsoon and you’ll still be in Ripper Mode.”
    /
    Health bars are game mechanics, otherwise, would you argue that Snake can survive a shot to major organ?
    /
    “Furthermore, nowhere does it say that during the Monsoon fight he was drawing on his pain to maintain the mode.”
    /
    Nowhere does it state that Jack-the-Ripper mode doesn’t drain electrolytes either.
    /
    “Sure, he used the pain to activate Ripper Mode, but that doesn’t mean it maintains it.”
    /
    Except all of the other times you use the Ripper mode, you don’t have a wound where you’re losing a good amount of fake blood coming out.
    /
    “The requirement of electrolytes is pretty clearly game mechanics to avoid breaking the game, but even if it weren’t the drain of them surely are.”
    /
    This is the same universe where Big Boss eating a glowcap mushroom can recharge your batteries of something like flashlights.

  13. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 3:04 am -      #13

    @Aelfinn
    Wait a minute. You cannot dismiss what’s canon and then go on to use physics to support your side. The speed booster grants Samus supersonic speeds. I’ve already considered the Mach angle in Metroid: Other M, giving me a speed of Mach 1.06. This is obviously different from Mach 1.2, which was what OriginalA promoted, but technically, anything past Mach 1 is supersonic. The shinespark is Mach 2, although it’s feasible Samus can attain this speed on foot, given the speed booster and shinespark share the same source.

    Anyway, are you honestly saying the environment is clearly inconsistent with reality, and therefore, shouldn’t be used for calculations? Really? Let’s apply the same kind of thinking to MGR:R, starting with those missiles in the game.

    You tell AoO that a missile is a missile and that Mach 3 is a common speed for missiles of all manner of designs, yet you tell me, “‘Suspicions’ of Mach speeds does not constitute proof” with regard to bullets fired from the Marines. You need to be consistent. Average speeds of bullets are 2,500 ft/s.

    www.mythbusterstheexhibition.com/science-content/dodge-a-bullet/

    The Federation Marines are using bullets. The design in the game may not appear to be that way, but that’s what they are. SGT E. Monz says the GFMC Task Force Herakles will need bigger guns if they plan cleansing the place if the bugs he saw on Devon III are the same on Aether.

    LCPL R. Vonda, LCPL J. Brode, and SPC F. Triplette bring up ammunition and how they’re running low. SPC F. Triplette goes on to say that they’ll need to start using their bayonets if this keeps up.

    If Raiden can only jump that fast, then perhaps Snake can do the same. I won’t deny that the missiles in the game are traveling Mach 3, but that means you need to be consistent with your arguments, not selective. Anything you apply to Raiden, I’ll apply to Samus in the same manner.

    Moving on, I thought the calculation from Naruto Forums, which you were referencing to, came up with 250 for Excelsus. Besides, I thought the damage from the blade from Raiden was coming from the high-frequency vibrations, not from Raiden’s own strength. I don’t deny Raiden’s physical strength. I’ll admit he’s superior to Samus in that regard. My point was merely to say that the portion from Excelsus that Raiden used was less than 250 mt, and he still struggled to use it properly. By that I mean he comes off a bit clumsy. So I don’t think his blade mode would produce that much force as you stated, otherwise plenty of structures wouldn’t simply be cut.

    We’ve also been able to see Raiden’s striking strength against Armstrong. He can generate speeds reaching at least Mach 1 with those shock waves. I don’t know how to determine how powerful one’s punch is, simply because there are so many variables and it’s not just a simple matter of F = ma.

    I apologize if I’m going all over the place. Let’s bring up the subject of nuclear bombs. My original calculation involved using TNT, which gave me 3.01 kt of TNT, but because nuclear weapons use fusion or fission, it was incorrect of me to use that. So, I used Uranium-235, a common fissile in nuclear explosions.

    (1.00 g. 235-U) × (1 mol 235-U/235 g. 235-U) × (6.022 × 10^23 atoms 235-U/1 mol 235-U) × (3.2 × 10^-11 J/1 atom 235-U)

    This is equal to 8.2 ×10^10 J, or 19.6 tons of TNT. However, with nuclear weapons, you need fissile material, and that requires a critical mass. The critical mass can be reduced by using a nuclear reflector, which I considered for Samus’ power bomb. With U-235, the minimum with a nuclear reflector is 15 kg. Using the equation above gives us 1,230,025,531,914,893.62 J, or 293.98 kilotons of TNT. However, not all fissile is used, so I considered Little Boy, which only produced 2% of fission in spite of having more U-235. This ends up being 5.88 kt of TNT, which isn’t far from my original calculation, using G. I. Taylor’s calculation. Taylor determined the yield before the yield was revealed based on pictures from Time.

    Anyway, again, sorry about jumping everywhere. This isn’t relevant here, but I wanted to present this anyway. I do agree with you that withstanding a nuke doesn’t mean you can survive other things. That’s why I made it clear at the Arena at BankGamblingTopia. As for diamond, though, a hammer would need to hit the correct angle to break diamond.

    You actually do, since you made the claim. Also, “That would paste a normal human.” I’m glad Samus isn’t a normal human. She’s integrated with Chozo DNA and wears powered armor that is cybernetically connected to her. I already showed her dropping without the varia suit is above what being slammed at Mach 5 would produce anyway, and since the varia suit cuts that damage by half, Samus has nothing to worry about.

    But if you insist on this type of logic, then I guess Iron Man should be dead after all the impact he’s received. Since we both know he’s alive and well in his established universe, we needn’t prove anything. So I shall apply this with Samus. Now, I didn’t need to do any calculations to prove my point, but I went ahead and did it anyway. The ball is in your court.

  14. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 3:24 am -      #14

    Whoops, forgot to respond to some posts. Silly me.
    /
    “Yes, I absolutely am. Considering the size differences, environmental differences, and everything of that nature in the motherbrain fight as shown in Metroid M as compared to Super Metroid should show that there are limitations the old games had to deal with.”
    /
    Funny, the same game Other Mshows the same trend for the speed booster and beams. I guess Other M rather support the foundation it had with older games.
    /
    Also, the paragraph where I say Ray shooting at Ray, I meant for that to be Ray shooting at Raiden.

  15. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 3:39 am -      #15

    As for bullets, the Marines are using bullets.

    *The firearms have a muzzle flash.

    *Ammunition is a concern for the Marines, as they’re running low.

    *The firearms sound like they’re supposed to be machine guns.

    *Yoshio Sakamoto, creator of Metroid, had a part in the Metroid Prime Trilogy.

    *Metroid: Other M shows us that the Federation uses machine guns.

    *Freeze guns are the newest weapons created by the Galactic Federation Military.

    *Prior to Metroid: Other M, the Federation is never seen using directed-energy weapons. Anthony Higgs is the only person who uses a plasma cannon.

    *All right, that might not be entirely true. Ghor used a plasma cannon, but the Federation is mainly human, so Ghor is a special case. And I’m not even sure if Ghor was originally part of the Federation, or called to for assistance like Samus, who does her own thing. She just gets called for help. Anthony is part of the Federation military, though.

  16. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 3:50 am -      #16

    How old is the Federation compared to Ghor?
    I don’t see any log entries that say Ghor is a soldier in the GF.
    If there is something that says so, he’s more of a special unit like the 07th Platoon or the marines with mechs.

  17. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 4:16 am -      #17

    @Alpha or Omega
    The Galactic Federation was established in 2003, according to the Cosmic Calendar. If we go by the timeline as presented by Metroid Database, then we’re working with 78 years. There is no mention of Ghor being a member of the Federation. He was probably hired, just like Samus, Rundas, and Gandrayda to resolve what took place with the Leviathan impacts.

    I’m sure the Galactic Federation has more than just bullets, missiles, and bombs. They used lasers to surgically remove portions of Samus’ armor off in Metroid Fusion. But with the events of Metroid Prime Trilogy, Phazon was the Federation’s best weapon.

  18. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 5:47 am -      #18

    All right, so it appears that HF blades are utilizing what electrosurgical tools utilize, which use a high-frequency electrical current. Or, well, alternating current. So this is clearly different from Samus’ nova beam, which is possibly firing radio waves, since high-frequencies fall in that range. The funny thing is that these electrosurgical tools are meant to minimize bleeding. So if the HF blade is anything like this, then that means it heats up the skin with the electric current.

    So it doesn’t appear that Samus’ armor should be concerned so much with vibrations or even electricity, but heat itself. This is why when Raiden cuts through metal objects, such as a shipping container during his encounter with LQ-84i, or when he’s shredding up helicopters, it’s heated up.

    Let’s say the rotor blade of the helicopter is made of steel. It could be made of other types of metals or alloys, but steel is one alloy it can be made of. In order to get steel to glow, it needs to reach 480°C (896°F). Samus has dealt with these temperatures before. So the main problem for Samus may be the sharpness of the HF blade. Sure, Samus has interacted with sharp objects, but at the nanoscale? I’m not sure. Possibly. Space pirates have used scythes. The HF blade will hurt Samus, but given how the armor runs until all energy is depleted, it may take more than one swing.

    Well, that was fun and interesting comparing the HF blade to real life. God, I’m up so late it’s already morning.

  19. Kitten Lord January 10, 2016 at 6:27 am -      #19

    Raiden has a nano blade? nice…..I would suspect anything he hits in this will get sliced to piecies then in short order unless some amazing feats are shown.

    We could likely get a pressure calc using the area of his sword and how much force he can push into it. Since I remember him throwing metalgears around he can probably output some ridiculous units of pressure.

    Also can we compare what the metals are made from? What is the suit Samus wears made from and Raidens sword? I must add that if one is harder or more durable as a standard than the other it may be relevent. Raidens sword may shatter on contact if its nowhere near as tough as Samus’ armour.

  20. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 7:19 am -      #20

    @Kitten Lord
    Hey, Kitten Lord. I don’t know if Raiden has a nano blade. Aelfinn cited that knives typically have a sharpness of 300 to 600 angstroms. He went with 600 angstroms, probably for low-end. 600 angstroms is equal to 60 nanometers. However, if this is applied to knives, I don’t see why it cannot be extended to scythes, since it was to the HF blade.

    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/a/ad/SpacePirate_cropped.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080324233717

    That there is a space pirate wielding a scythe. Those are the weakest in Metroid Prime. There are different space pirates who utilize scythes of different kinds as well in Metroid Prime. In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, pirate troopers use photonic power scythes.

    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/d/da/Pirate_Trooper_Echoes.png/revision/latest?cb=20140827044320

    In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, pirate troopers use energy scythes. So Samus has dealt with sharp objects that have also been amped up in different ways. While it may be true that Raiden could put a lot more force behind his swings, it appears HF blade does the work for cutting through things.

    The material Samus’ armor is made of is unknown. I want to say the under layer of the armor is made of carbon nanotubes, only because it’s a black color and it’s flexible. However, I have no evidence for this. The armor itself only has a few scratches here and there at the end of Super Metroid. It’s possible these are just superficial, that is, scraps on the paint job.

    The power suit is metallic, though. When Samus stops herself after using the speed booster, or if she’s launched at supersonic speeds and comes in contact with a metal surface, she’ll produce sparks, due to the friction. Using spark testing doesn’t tell me anything about it the type of alloy. Sure, you could go with titanium, since it’s non-ferrous, and so is Samus’ armor based on its inability to be magnetized, but I don’t know. If it was a titanium, it could end up being fictional, just like Jovian steel.

  21. Friendlysociopath January 10, 2016 at 9:42 am -      #21

    Those are cosmetics, and the cutscenes show Raiden without wearing them, so Raiden doesn’t use them or doesn’t have them.

    Well that’s fair, Samus is allowed any item or equipment she can lay her hands on for 100% completion but Raiden isn’t?

  22. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 2:30 pm -      #22

    What’s a cosmetic?

  23. Alpha or Omega January 10, 2016 at 3:20 pm -      #23

    @FriendlySociopath
    “Well that’s fair, Samus is allowed any item or equipment she can lay her hands on for 100% completion but Raiden isn’t?”
    /
    In the opening cutscene in Metroid Other M, we see the baby Metroid restore Samus energy tanks.
    That fact alone shows Samus will go out to collect energy tanks and missile tanks.
    Furthermore, the Metroid games are in a Metroidvania like sequences, so the equipment are required in order to progress through the game unless you sequence break.
    In Metroid Fusion, Samus outright defies the Galactic to get the diffusion missile.
    Then in the Metroid Prime Trilogy, in order to see the endings that lead to the next game, you must collect 100%.
    /
    Raiden on the other hand, shows his default cyborg body in all the cutscenes no matter what type of body or wig you pick.
    /
    @Mea
    “What’s a cosmetic?”
    /
    In video games, they are different suits, wigs, or costumes..

  24. Mea quidem sententia January 10, 2016 at 3:47 pm -      #24

    Energy tanks are outside game play. Metroid Prime scan data and the official Web site make it clear that the more energy tanks Samus has, the longer she can survive. They are her defensive shields. In order to enter hyper-mode, Samus needs to use an energy tank. That is part of her internal energy. Metroid: Other M says that Samus’ energy shields are restored whenever she uses the navigation room.

    Raiden has fuel cell electrolytes, which he has to use manually to repair himself. Both characters require some sort of source to recover. In Samus’ case, she can at least use concentration if her energy shield is critical. But this only restore 100 energy units and Samus must remain stationary, else she has to start over. So both characters still have limitations.

  25. Aelfinn January 11, 2016 at 5:45 pm -      #25

    There is a lot to respond to here, so I’ll probably be jumping around a bit. I’ll probably also be making multiple posts, to break it up into chunks.
    =
    @Alpha or Omega
    =
    “Raiden on the other hand, shows his default cyborg body in all the cutscenes no matter what type of body or wig you pick.”

    Doktor specifically says that if Raiden brings him left arms, he can give Raiden upgrades. He does this in an absolutely canon cutscene. Just because Raiden’s cutscenes don’t have him with specific outfits doesn’t mean those upgrades don’t exist. If we’re giving Samus every upgrade we absolutely give Raiden his.
    =
    “Funny, the same game Other Mshows the same trend for the speed booster and beams. I guess Other M rather support the foundation it had with older games.”

    Maybe it’s because the Speed Booster doesn’t actually go Mach speed in-game…as I have been arguing. They can’t do that because of the human playing the game.
    =
    “Yet, you didn’t answer why Raiden goes back to velocity A or get knocked out of blade mode if he fails.
    Furthermore, why don’t we see a faster drop in
    electrolytes when this happens?”


    Because it’s a video game. When he fails he gets hit by an explosion or the object itself, and gets knocked out of blade mode. Also, let me be clear, the actual electrolyte drop-rate is entirely a game mechanic. There are QTE sections where the electrolyte meter does not drop despite being in Blade Mode. It is entirely designed to prevent being overpowered in normal gameplay, not an actual representation of the true drop rate.
    =
    @Mea
    “All right, so it appears that HF blades are utilizing what electrosurgical tools utilize, which use a high-frequency electrical current. Or, well, alternating current. So this is clearly different from Samus’ nova beam, which is possibly firing radio waves, since high-frequencies fall in that range. The funny thing is that these electrosurgical tools are meant to minimize bleeding. So if the HF blade is anything like this, then that means it heats up the skin with the electric current.

    So it doesn’t appear that Samus’ armor should be concerned so much with vibrations or even electricity, but heat itself. This is why when Raiden cuts through metal objects, such as a shipping container during his encounter with LQ-84i, or when he’s shredding up helicopters, it’s heated up.”


    Sure, the blades have an alternating current in them, but it also says that High-frequency blades weaken particle bonds.
    =
    “Wait a minute. You cannot dismiss what’s canon and then go on to use physics to support your side. “

    That was exactly my point! If Samus’ low-graphics environments are used to argue for a certain reaction time, then Raiden’s seemingly low-speed missiles should be used for his “jump” speed.
    =
    “You actually do, since you made the claim. Also, “That would paste a normal human.” I’m glad Samus isn’t a normal human. She’s integrated with Chozo DNA and wears powered armor that is cybernetically connected to her. I already showed her dropping without the varia suit is above what being slammed at Mach 5 would produce anyway, and since the varia suit cuts that damage by half, Samus has nothing to worry about.

    But if you insist on this type of logic, then I guess Iron Man should be dead after all the impact he’s received. Since we both know he’s alive and well in his established universe, we needn’t prove anything. So I shall apply this with Samus. Now, I didn’t need to do any calculations to prove my point, but I went ahead and did it anyway. The ball is in your court.”


    Firstly, just because Iron Man uses math incorrectly doesn’t mean we get to. It’s literally an entirely different franchise. Secondly, your calc is wrong. You found the energy of the impact, not the Force exerted on Samus. Let’s do a calc on going from Mach 5 to 0 m/s over a distance of half a meter. I’m being generous with half a meter, because I assume some amount of crater would be created. Assuming these things, that leads to an acceleration of 2941225 m/s/s. That means the Force exerted on Samus is 340508265 Newtons. That’s an absurd 38274 TONS of Force.
    www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-6/Kinematic-Equations
    =
    ” My point was merely to say that the portion from Excelsus that Raiden used was less than 250 mt, and he still struggled to use it properly. By that I mean he comes off a bit clumsy.”

    He still swung that huge blade something like 13 times in less than a second, that’s hardly clumsy.
    =
    =
    @Kitten Lord
    “We could likely get a pressure calc using the area of his sword and how much force he can push into it. Since I remember him throwing metalgears around he can probably output some ridiculous units of pressure.”

    I believe I calc’d it to be greater than the pressure inside the Earth.

  26. Alpha or Omega January 11, 2016 at 8:38 pm -      #26

    @Aelfinn
    “Doktor specifically says that if Raiden brings him left arms, he can give Raiden upgrades. He does this in an absolutely canon cutscene. Just because Raiden’s cutscenes don’t have him with specific outfits doesn’t mean those upgrades don’t exist. If we’re giving Samus every upgrade we absolutely give Raiden his.”
    /
    Which has nothing to do with custom cyborg bodies. That has more to do with wigs, and IIRC, gallery art and one sword.
    Furthermore, even if he has these cyborg bodies, we don’t see Raiden equipped with one in any cutscene. At least with Solid Snake, we know he has a railgun and other guns because he pulled the railgun out of nowhere and has been seen with other kept guns.
    …I don’t think you got the point when I mentioned the opening cutscene in Metroid Other M. Samus is shown having her energy tanks recovered. Samus doesn’t start with one energy tank in any game. That opening cutscene shows Samus with energy tanks which shows that Samus will go out of her way to collect energy tanks.
    Furthermore, Metroid Fusion shows Samus outright defying the Galactic Federation to obtain the diffusion missiles.
    In Metroid Other M, the only thing keeping her from using all the equipment she has is authorization from a superior.
    In Metroid Prime Trilogy, in order to receive the ending that leads to the next game, Samus must collect 100%.
    Then, in Metroid Zero Mission and Super Metroid, unless you sequence break, Samus goes after these equipment to progress through the game in a Metroidvania style way (I take it that you’re unfamiliar with Metroidvanias).
    /
    “Maybe it’s because the Speed Booster doesn’t actually go Mach speed in-game…as I have been arguing. They can’t do that because of the human playing the game.”
    /
    Or, since Metroid Other M was created with more advanced technology than the other games and created by the same people who create Ninja Gaiden, the gameplay is slower than it what is actually going on.
    Furthermore, we see the same mach cone on the speed booster, and the manga shows that the game is slower than it actually is.
    Also, we have Metroid Prime Trilogy where bullets and sonic attacks(which you didn’t address Mea about) look slow to Samus.
    You also didn’t address how Kraid’s belly projectiles are still airborne and plowing through several meters of rock without loss of speed even though it’s “slow.”
    /
    “Because it’s a video game. When he fails he gets hit by an explosion or the object itself, and gets knocked out of blade mode.”
    /
    Then under that same reasoning, we could also say that it changes to velocity B because it’s a video game and that moment only happens in boss fights.
    Furthermore, we see the same slow down when Raiden blocks or parries.
    /
    “Also, let me be clear, the actual electrolyte drop-rate is entirely a game mechanic. There are QTE sections where the electrolyte meter does not drop despite being in Blade Mode.”
    /
    In boss fights, or against mooks?
    In boss fights, you’re only given about a few seconds of extended time and before that time is up, it doesn’t allow you to anymore. And that’s for boss fights only.
    I don’t recall the same with mooks, but you do recover a full bar of electrolyte meter if you hit an enemy or boss with a connecting parry.
    /
    “It is entirely designed to prevent being overpowered in normal gameplay, not an actual representation of the true drop rate.”
    /
    Then we don’t have anything quantifiable to say anything about the drop rate.
    /
    “Sure, the blades have an alternating current in them, but it also says that High-frequency blades weaken particle bonds.”
    /
    And the hyper (phazon version) beam, hyper missile, and phazon weapons disrupts those bonds instead of weakening them.
    /
    “That was exactly my point! If Samus’ low-graphics environments are used to argue for a certain reaction time, then Raiden’s seemingly low-speed missiles should be used for his “jump” speed.”
    /
    Metroid Other M isn’t a low-graphics environment either, and you’re still calling game mechanics on that. The manga shows that the game is going faster than it should be.
    Furthermore, the alarm and caution warnings in MG:R give normal time frames instead of slowed down time frames.
    /
    “Firstly, just because Iron Man uses math incorrectly doesn’t mean we get to. It’s literally an entirely different franchise.”
    /
    Yet, Samus suffers the same things as Ironman such as nukes and re-entry in skin tight suit and doesn’t suffer from it.
    And what do you mean Iron Man uses math incorrectly?
    /
    “Secondly, your calc is wrong. You found the energy of the impact, not the Force exerted on Samus. Let’s do a calc on going from Mach 5 to 0 m/s over a distance of half a meter. I’m being generous with half a meter, because I assume some amount of crater would be created. Assuming these things, that leads to an acceleration of 2941225 m/s/s. That means the Force exerted on Samus is 340508265 Newtons. That’s an absurd 38274 TONS of Force.
    www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-6/Kinematic-Equations”
    /
    Aside from Samus surviving the hyper beam, Zebes core, and how you want to ignore math for Iron man, let’s talk about how MG:R ignores math.
    It has the pressure of the earth’s core, yet it fails to cause any internal damage to Armstrong despite the fact that his heart went splat by an effortless squeeze.
    It has the pressure of earth’s core, yet fails to cause any internal damage to Jetstream Sam who has the least amount of cybernetics.
    /
    “He still swung that huge blade something like 13 times in less than a second, that’s hardly clumsy.”
    /
    …How did you get 13 times in less than a second?
    Even if we go with the fact that videos of blade mode need to be 64 times faster to see in real time, it takes him a second in blade mode to swing it, and another to raise the blade.
    /
    “I believe I calc’d it to be greater than the pressure inside the Earth.”
    /
    Yet, it can’t apparently do internal damage to Armstrong or Sam.
    /
    And on that note, stay in skool. Be kool. …Because homework.

  27. Mea quidem sententia January 11, 2016 at 9:45 pm -      #27

    @Aelfinn
    What’s a “particle bond”? I’ve heard of chemical, covalent, ionic, and metallic bonds. I suspect this wasn’t actually meant for accurate, scientific understanding. Anyway, “Electrosurgery is a term used to describe multiple modalities that use electricity to cause thermal destruction of tissue through dehydration, coagulation, or vaporization. The two types of electrosurgery most commonly used are high-frequency electrosurgery and electrocautery.

    “High-frequency electrosurgery refers to four different methods: electrocoagulation, electrodesiccation, electrofulguration, and electrosection. These methods involve high-frequency alternating current, which is converted to heat by resistance as it passes through the tissue.” – Medscape, Electrosurgery, William D Holmes, MD; Chief Editor: Dirk M Elston, MD, et al.

    As I said before, the heat shouldn’t be a problem, since this would be what allows easy cutting through Raiden’s enemies. Samus has dealt with this kind of heat before without any issues. The plasma beam Samus acquired from Ghor, who used plasma cannons against her, can “burn [enemies] to ash.” – Plasma Beam, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.

    I’ve already calculated two different instances with this beam, each falling in the gigajoule range. For the tinbots, I ended up with 6+ GJ. With the space pirates (which also applies to flying pirates, who are wearing some sort of jetpack made presumably of metal), I ended up with 9.5 GJ of thermal energy. Those should be on the first page.

    meaquidemsententia.wordpress.com/2015/09/23/energy-required-to-vaporize-a-space-pirate/

    meaquidemsententia.wordpress.com/2015/09/20/how-much-energy-can-the-plasma-beam-produce-in-metroid-prime-3-corruption/

    So the main issue is really on whether or not Samus can withstand the impact from the HF blade.

    Regardless, Samus has fought enemies who have used supersonic projectiles and directed-energy weapons. I won’t dismiss the Mach 3 missiles, but I will expect the same to be granted me. All things being equal. I accept that speeds are generally slower because players wouldn’t be able to finish any game that involved accurate, real-life speeds. And I know Raiden has dealt with supersonic attacks.

    Who are you to say whether or not the developers can or cannot be inaccurate on how things work? Anyway, I was pretty certain I found the impact force, since newton meters is energy, not force. But let’s continue. I’ll start with kinetic energy, which is KE = 0.5 * mv^2. Total mass for Samus is 155.7709 kg. Her shinespark allows her to fly Mach 2 based on the Mach angle in Metroid: Other M. That’s 686 m/s.

    KE = 0.5 * (155.7709 kg.)(686 m/s)^2
    KE = 36,652,581.2282 kg m^2/s^2

    Samus has been able to fly into things without causing any indentation. I doubt this is a game mechanic. Bendezium is “commonly found on planets with crusts containing 85% or more Urthic ore.” (Official Metroid Prime Web site) Most of Zebes’ crust is composed of this. “Bendezium is an extremely dense solid. High melting points and stable atomic structure make Bendezium a popular building material throughout the galaxy. Bendezium is nearly indestructible, but in laboratory tests it has demonstrated a vulnerability to concussive detonations.” (ibid.)

    Bendezium is invulnerable to Samus’ missiles, but power bombs easily get rid of it. With that in mind, Samus should make a complete stop upon impact with the Zebesian construction after using the shinespark. Keep in mind that Samus uses this in Tourian, the deepest part of Zebes, which is the main headquarters of Mother Brain’s forces.

    Getting back to the main point, let’s say the distance Samus covers upon impact is 1 cm., since really, she doesn’t even compress. Hell, we could do this with the morph ball to ignore that anyway. That’s 3,665,258,122.82 kg m/s^2, which is 411,993.34 tons-force. Since Samus has the varia suit, that should total out to 823,986.68 tons-force.

    As for Raiden using some huge blade “like 13 times in less than a second”, where is this?

  28. Friendlysociopath January 11, 2016 at 9:56 pm -      #28

    Furthermore, the alarm and caution warnings in MG:R give normal time frames instead of slowed down time frames.

    Because it’s not feasible to change literally everything about the game to match a character exceeding a certain speed? That’s an ungodly extra amount of work that would add nothing at all to the game.
    We know Raiden can bullet-time, once we establish that as true we have to accept that the game is going to have distorted timeframesfor everything.

    Let’s take the average speed of a bullet
    2,500 feet per second. We’ll change it to meters so it’s easier, 762 meters per second.
    If someone is only 25 meters away and blocks a bullet, the bullet crosses that distance and is blocked in 0.033 seconds, that’s one frame in a 30fps video.
    This is impossible to watch by human eyes, nobody is following that, especially once multiple bullets are fired. Once a character is visibly slashing bullets out of the air in more than a frame (or two for 60fps) then you’re dealing with distorted time. Meaning the timing of outside variables like rain, alarms, and gravity are all possibly not going to match up because no developer is going to time all those things to make them match up to speeds.

    Which has nothing to do with custom cyborg bodies. That has more to do with wigs, and IIRC, gallery art and one sword.

    The wigs are what gives him infinite blade-mode, those wigs are unlocked by cutting off a certain number of arms, which is referenced in-game by the Doktor.

    Yet, it can’t apparently do internal damage to Armstrong or Sam.

    Because both are quite blatantly superhuman? Don’t even pretend being human is a limitation in Metal Gear, Ocelot was deflecting lightning with a pistol, Sam can cut a Metal Gear in half, Snake can crawl through a microwave.

  29. Ninja Lowk January 11, 2016 at 10:15 pm -      #29

    “Yet, Samus suffers the same things as Ironman such as nukes and re-entry in skin tight suit and doesn’t suffer from it.
    And what do you mean Iron Man uses math incorrectl”

    the Ironman that tanks nukes didn’t wrar a skin tight suit. He was enhanced by extermis. Plus I think the suit had some kind of buffer built in to protect him using “SCIENCE!”

  30. Mea quidem sententia January 11, 2016 at 10:16 pm -      #30

    @Friendlysociopath
    I agree with you regarding blade mode’s time frame inconsistency. It would be too much work for the developers.

    Are these secrets in MGR:R a requirement in story mode?

    Regardless, in Armstrong’s case, his armored skin would need to be at least inches thick. Iron Man’s armor would need to be a few feet thick. If this unusual application of force to kill the person on the inside is going to be applied to one, it must be applied to all. Let’s not be inconsistent.

    Anyway, how well does Raiden perform against beams passing through objects? I’m not sure how powerful a laser would need to be in order to pierce through multiple people, but that’s what the plasma beam can do, except it can pierce through space pirates’ exoskeletons. The way the plasma beam is described also would make it an electrolaser. The wave beam can ignore armor, as it does against the FG-1,000, who is originally unaffected by Samus’ power beam and missiles. How well does Raiden perform against sub-zero temperatures?

  31. Friendlysociopath January 11, 2016 at 10:25 pm -      #31

    I agree with you regarding blade mode’s time frame inconsistency. It would be too much work for the developers.

    That was for speed in general, once a certain threshold is crossed (For example, bullet-timing, or even moving at supersonic speeds) you have to accept that everything in the world is not going to revolve around making sure it’s in the right speed for that.

    Are these secrets in MGR:R a requirement in story mode?

    Chopping off the first arm is required to beat a mission, at which point Doktor mentions getting more will give you upgrades.

    If this unusual application of force to kill the person on the inside is going to be applied to one, it must be applied to all.

    I honestly do: Boba Fett, Master Chief, Iron Man, etc.
    I just give them their best feat, Master Chief’s suit allows him to outphysics to the best feat he has- one bit over that and I say physics matter and he’s paste in a can.

  32. pimpmage January 11, 2016 at 10:36 pm -      #32

    “Samus has been able to fly into things without causing any indentation. I doubt this is a game mechanic. ”

    Yeah, because game programmers totally had that in mind and specifically said that. Mea, sometimes you are kinda dense. Like really, you expect people to program in dents to walls? You know how absolutely minor that is?

  33. Mea quidem sententia January 11, 2016 at 10:47 pm -      #33

    @Friendlysociopath
    So, you’re saying you want infinite blade mode? All right.

    @pimpmage
    You must have missed that important stuff about bendezium and how it’s a popular building material, extremely dense and nearly indestructible. It’s also plentiful on Zebes, which is a planet Samus has gone to several times, especially with the speed booster. That information is outside of game play. I don’t know what your beef is with me lately. You don’t need to like me. I’m not seeking anyone’s social validation. I would like to focus on the discussion, though.

  34. Alpha or Omega January 11, 2016 at 11:03 pm -      #34

    @FriendlySociopath
    “Because it’s not feasible to change literally everything about the game to match a character exceeding a certain speed? That’s an ungodly extra amount of work that would add nothing at all to the game.
    /
    Yeah, it’s not like it’s created from the same studios that brought you Bayonetta. The same people who pulled of witch time. The same former studio that used to make Devil May Cry with Devil Trigger.
    Also, it’s possible and has been done by games preceding Rising Revengeance.
    When you stop time in Sonic Heroes, the stage time stops.
    /
    “We know Raiden can bullet-time, once we establish that as true we have to accept that the game is going to have distorted timeframesfor everything.”
    /
    Point blank bullet timing?
    No.
    /
    “The wigs are what gives him infinite blade-mode, those wigs are unlocked by cutting off a certain number of arms, which is referenced in-game by the Doktor.”
    /
    The same wigs are also dependable by difficulty and as I said before, cutscene?
    Yes/No?
    Furthermore, when he faces Armstrong, Sam, or any boss, he shows his default self.
    /
    “Because both are quite blatantly superhuman? Don’t even pretend being human is a limitation in Metal Gear, Ocelot was deflecting lightning with a pistol, Sam can cut a Metal Gear in half, Snake can crawl through a microwave.”
    /
    As I pointed out to someone else before (was an Armstrong related match, can’t remember), the bullets were faster than the “lightning.”
    Volgin sent it towards Ocelot and Ocelot shot a little later. The slow mo shows the bullets covering more distance than the lightning did.
    /
    Then, there’s the fact that Sam had the use of the Murasama blade. A HF Blade that Metal Gears.
    Furthermore, strength=/=durability.
    /
    Also, you didn’t address Armstrong.
    Raiden, with the blade mode and calculation for that blade mode, has the pressure of the earth’s core when struggling with the blade.
    Raiden, without blade mode, crushed Armstrong’s heart without effort.
    /
    @Ninja Lowk
    “the Ironman that tanks nukes didn’t wrar a skin tight suit. He was enhanced by extermis. Plus I think the suit had some kind of buffer built in to protect him using “SCIENCE!””
    /
    Sorry, sorry. Meant Samus only for the skin tight suit.
    That doesn’t explain the time he gave UN Peacekeeper suits that could survive 50 megaton nukes or the time he had to put a force field around the Avengers to protect them from several nukes in the Savage land.

  35. Friendlysociopath January 11, 2016 at 11:05 pm -      #35

    So, you’re saying you want infinite blade mode? All right.

    In general I always push for video game characters to be given their toys unless there is a canon reason not to (For example, Kain, Ratchet, MegaMan); it’s not fair that they’re denied powers and equipment just because they come from a play-driven medium.

    Like really, you expect people to program in dents to walls?

    Depends on the era of gaming honestly. For older titles that simply wasn’t feasible due to graphical and memory limitations. Is this still the sprite games or in the 3D territory?

    Point blank bullet timing?
    No.


    See above with 25 meters- are you going to say Raiden can’t even block them at that range? That gives them one frame to show him moving if they want real-time. If that want half-speed that’s two frames. Four frames if they want 60fps. I can make an animation showing bullet-timing in real-time, it’s not watchable.
    And that leads us to the fact that the entire game is people moving at those speeds or faster, it’s not a “Small bit” where a specific element is involved, it’s the entire game.
    Do Dante and Bayonetta have moments where sound effects don’t match up with their supposed speed? Yes? Congrats- you’ve admitted the obvious- video games cannot consistently show speed, funnily enough, NO medium appears to be able to consistently and accurately depict speed.
    Does that mean Dante and Bayonetta aren’t going at their feat-given speeds?
    Hell, if I go through Samus’ games, am I not going to find any speed discrepancies? Where a stated speed doesn’t add up?

    The same people who pulled of witch time.

    And this never varies in how slow objects move? If you say yes I’m going to call you a liar.

    Furthermore, strength=/=durability.

    I never said it was, I said they’re both superhuman, if you want to dispute that I’m going to laugh at you. You said there was no proof Raiden hit with such strength because they weren’t slain- which is not true as you cannot dispute how strong Raiden is via his feats. Meaning we have to go the other way and simply say they’re durable enough.

  36. pimpmage January 11, 2016 at 11:07 pm -      #36

    ” I don’t know what your beef is with me lately. You don’t need to like me. I’m not seeking anyone’s social validation. I would like to focus on the discussion, though.”

    Focus on the discussion? What do you think my comment was about? The discussion. You made a claim that samus couldn’t dent walls. I saw this and my jaw dropped. It has nothing to do with you as a person, only about what you said. Samus couldnt dent walls because it wasnt game mechanics? Thats one of the stupidest things i’ve read in awhile. You can see that in literally any video game out there. Throw grenades at walls? Walls dont get damaged? GRENADE PROOF WALLS, NOT GAME MECHANIC LOL. I just thought it was quite silly. And you though it was an attack against your character…

  37. Alpha or Omega January 11, 2016 at 11:08 pm -      #37

    *A HF Blade that Metal Gears have no resistance to.

  38. Alpha or Omega January 11, 2016 at 11:22 pm -      #38

    @Raiden
    “See above with 25 meters- are you going to say Raiden can’t even block them at that range?”
    /
    Did I say he couldn’t? I argued against point blank
    My argument has been that.
    /
    “And this never varies in how slow objects move? If you say yes I’m going to call you a liar.”
    /
    Yes, and even if you’re right, it didn’t deviate a lot from what I noticed. I also want proof for this evidence.
    Also didn’t address devil trigger.

  39. Mea quidem sententia January 11, 2016 at 11:27 pm -      #39

    @pimpmage
    You’re making a straw man, pimpmage. I backed up why I said that and made sure that I focused solely on Zebes, since the space pirates would construct their fortress out of bendezium. It wasn’t merely a statement of, “Samus can’t dent walls. That’s not a game mechanic.” In fact, I said “Samus has been able to fly into things without causing any indentation. I doubt this is a game mechanic.” I never said she couldn’t cause indentations, otherwise, she wouldn’t be able to plow through metal pillars and ice.

    Funny you mention grenades, though, because at the beginning of Metroid: Other M where you learn how to play, the quarantine officer tells Samus not to be afraid to use a power bomb because the place is well fortified. You did say that I’m sometimes dense. But alas, I’m not denser than tungsten.

    I still like you, though.

  40. Alpha or Omega January 11, 2016 at 11:46 pm -      #40

    @FriendlySociopath
    “That gives them one frame to show him moving if they want real-time. If that want half-speed that’s two frames. Four frames if they want 60fps. I can make an animation showing bullet-timing in real-time, it’s not watchable.”
    /
    …I don’t get what you’re saying.
    Are you saying they can’t display real time based on frame rate?
    I still disagree. If you want to say that the game is slow compared to real life simply because of limited framerate we could claim this for all games. You need physical proof that the game is slowed down. Final Fantasy VII for example shows buildings falling at a slow rate in real time and has a script and WoG. I also don’t understand why it wouldn’t look good. Final Fantasy VII Advent Children was in slow motion, and it still looked good.
    /
    “Do Dante and Bayonetta have moments where sound effects don’t match up with their supposed speed? Yes? Congrats- you’ve admitted the obvious- video games cannot consistently show speed, funnily enough,”
    /
    Sound or talk bubbles doesn’t match up in comics or manga. What is your point?
    /
    “NO medium appears to be able to consistently and accurately depict speed.”
    /
    It depends if the medium is going for that speed or not. Your point? We don’t know if that’s true or not.
    /
    “Does that mean Dante and Bayonetta aren’t going at their feat-given speeds?”
    /
    Considering most of their feats are from cutscenes, I don’t see your point.
    /
    “Hell, if I go through Samus’ games, am I not going to find any speed discrepancies? Where a stated speed doesn’t add up?”
    /
    The manga, slow bullets, slow speed booster, objects somehow being airborne and mach cones point to the game being slowed down.
    If that’s neither acceptable, then neither would the script and word of god saying the movie Advent Children was slowed down.
    /
    “I never said it was, I said they’re both superhuman, if you want to dispute that I’m going to laugh at you. You said there was no proof Raiden hit with such strength because they weren’t slain- which is not true as you cannot dispute how strong Raiden is via his feats. Meaning we have to go the other way and simply say they’re durable enough.”
    /
    Aelfinn said Iron man had no math, and I was literally pointing out the same for MGRR.
    I wanted to point out the lack of internal damage when Raiden went against Armstrong.
    We know his heart isn’t that durable.

  41. pimpmage January 11, 2016 at 11:48 pm -      #41

    “I still like you, though.”

    I think… I think we are married now.

  42. Alpha or Omega January 12, 2016 at 12:05 am -      #42

    B-b-but Mea is already a married man.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    And he is my bae……I clearly need to sleep.
    And you guys forgot this ever existed

  43. Mea quidem sententia January 12, 2016 at 12:09 am -      #43

    @pimpmage
    Nah, I’m married already and have a newborn. Hehehe. But serious, pimpmage, I like you as a person. I like your way of debate.

  44. Mea quidem sententia January 12, 2016 at 12:14 am -      #44

    @Alpha or Omega
    Haha! Love ya, bae.

    My wife is fine with sharing.

  45. OriginalA January 12, 2016 at 12:15 am -      #45

    All of the Wigs in Revengence are New Game Plus mode items. They CANNOT be used during the first playthrough of the game.

    “In general I always push for video game characters to be given their toys unless there is a canon reason not to (For example, Kain, Ratchet, MegaMan); it’s not fair that they’re denied powers and equipment just because they come from a play-driven medium.”

    I agree, but neither should they be allowed stuff that is outside of the narrative. Otherwise you get silly stuff like Solid Snake sneaking through Shadow Moses in a tuxedo, Super Dante with infinite DT, Amaterasu being completely invulnerable/unlimited ink magic, Naked Snake having the Patriot machine gun despite the fact that The Boss is holding that gun for the whole game up until she dies, and literally dozens of other examples where NG+ items are not part of the narrative.

    The reason the wigs are denied is because they are rewards for beating the game. THEY CANNOT BE OBTAINED IN NORMAL GAMEPLAY. They can ONLY be obtained in NG+.

  46. Mea quidem sententia January 12, 2016 at 12:33 am -      #46

    @OriginalA
    Thanks for the heads up, OriginalA. So I will retract my earlier statement. On another unrelated note, I was able to determine how high Samus was able to kick a griptian off of her based on kinematics. It takes a griptian to reach a peak of 5.85 m. at 1.091625 seconds.

    Also, Samus is 105 px. tall and can jump 290 px. outside the armor. Using her height, that’s equal to 5.25 m. The hi-jump boots double Samus’ jump, allowing her to leap 10.5 m.

  47. Friendlysociopath January 12, 2016 at 12:57 am -      #47

    The reason the wigs are denied is because they are rewards for beating the game. THEY CANNOT BE OBTAINED IN NORMAL GAMEPLAY. They can ONLY be obtained in NG+.

    Yes they can, they are unlocked in two ways, one is beating the game, the other is collecting enough left arms.
    www.ign.com/wikis/metal-gear-rising-revengeance/Left_Arms
    You do not have to beat the game to unlock them.

    Are you saying they can’t display real time based on frame rate?

    I’m saying they can’t display real-time because we can’t see it, and then pointed out for animation purposes this holds true as well.

    I still disagree. If you want to say that the game is slow compared to real life simply because of limited framerate

    The limitation is us, not the framerate; frames are just how I see it because of animation.
    The game has distorted time because you can see Raiden swinging his sword to block bullets, which you would not be capable of if it were in real-time.

    You need physical proof that the game is slowed down.

    I have it, we can see Raiden blocking the bullets, any series where you can see bullets travel or see someone blocking them at anything approaching 25 meters is distorted time.

    Final Fantasy VII Advent Children was in slow motion, and it still looked good.

    Exactly.
    The movie had to slow itself down in order for you to follow the action, like Cloud cutting bullets out of the air or the building falling.
    Even when it’s not “super-slow” you’re still looking at distorted time because you’re watching Cloud cut visibly traveling bullets out of the air.
    It’s not about looking good, it’s about the principle that once you have people cutting bullets, you’re not looking at 100% real-time.

    And as a consequence of not 100% real-time, you’re going to have discrepancies where everything doesn’t work together. They can’t alter the entire game to not be real-time.
    Like sirens, distances, and other environment-based effects. They’re not going to match up to the feats because that would be the entire game.

    Considering most of their feats are from cutscenes, I don’t see your point.

    And Raiden has feats from QTEs, which are taken as cutscenes too. That includes multiple instances of bullet-timing, meaning whenever you see him moving his sword you’re looking at distorted time.
    Just like how Dante’s battles with Vergil can be seen despite both moving at supersonic speeds; just because there isn’t a massive time-slow doesn’t mean time isn’t being distorted for you to follow the action.

    For the above reasons, I do not think sirens and sounds being in real-time disprove higher speeds from Raiden.

  48. Aelfinn January 12, 2016 at 5:04 pm -      #48

    “As for Raiden using some huge blade “like 13 times in less than a second”, where is this?”

    When he enters Blade Mode with the Giant Excelsus Sword.
    youtu.be/9AYoswl6fug?t=6m49s

    I mean, you can see videos where he cuts it 4 or 5 times, but that one has him going to 19. All of it happens in less than a second based on how little all the pieces move.
    =
    “Samus has been able to fly into things without causing any indentation. I doubt this is a game mechanic.”

    I don’t doubt it is a game mechanic. Just because there might be an in-universe explanation for a lack of indentation doesn’t automatically mean that explanation is correct, especially because it’s a fan explanation and isn’t canon in the slightest. Regardless, we see Samus regularly break floors when she falls on them in cutscenes and the regular Metroid games don’t have fully destructible environments, which means the walls weren’t coded with the ability to break.
    =
    =
    =
    “Yet, it can’t apparently do internal damage to Armstrong or Sam.”

    Armstrong is explicitly stronger and more durable than Raiden. He punched Raiden so hard the Metal Gear underneath him blew up. Of course Armstrong isn’t going to suffer damage, because when the sword can’t cut through the nanomachines, that means the pressure isn’t applied to anything past the nanomachines. Raiden never delivers an attack strong enough to send Armstrong flying.

    Sam had an exoskeleton, firstly. Secondly, he was able to, with no enhancements, take on drug empires with just his katana. The only explanation is that he was just that good.

    Gray Fox was able to deflect bullets decades before Raiden’s body was made, and we can see, or rather, we can’t see, the sword moving and deflecting bullets at close range.
    youtu.be/dU1YopMDEGc?t=4m29s

  49. Alpha or Omega January 12, 2016 at 5:11 pm -      #49

    @Friendlysociopath
    “Yes they can, they are unlocked in two ways, one is beating the game, the other is collecting enough left arms.
    You do not have to beat the game to unlock them.”
    /
    OriginalA isn’t wrong. This is what it said on the left arm page you provided.
    “Collecting all these items and completing the mission or the game will unlock the following items:”
    Note that the IGN page has the word “and” italicized meaning that there’s more for the requirement. Furthermore. here’s the page for wigs.
    www.ign.com/wikis/metal-gear-rising-revengeance/Wigs
    And as I said before, they are dependent on difficulty as well. Cutscenes also show Raiden not using them. We know Solid Snake kept and used a railgun because he pulled it out of nowhere in a cutscene.
    Then, there’s the fact that you more likely wouldn’t have enough money even if the wig was available before a NG+
    The only way you could possibly buy something worth 50000 BP from a first playthrough(haven’t tried it yet though, I usually get B-Ranks), is to S-Rank all your mission and buy nothing but the wig.
    Do you think that’s a reasonable thing to do?
    /
    “I’m saying they can’t display real-time because we can’t see it, and then pointed out for animation purposes this holds true as well.”
    /
    The cutscenes are displayed in real time and nothing suggests the gameplay or cutscenes are slowed down.
    /
    “The limitation is us, not the framerate; frames are just how I see it because of animation.
    The game has distorted time because you can see Raiden swinging his sword to block bullets, which you would not be capable of if it were in real-time.”
    /
    On the other hand, I pointed out that the gun doesn’t have the same rate of fire as real life equivalents and that leaves Raiden with enough time
    /
    “I have it, we can see Raiden blocking the bullets, any series where you can see bullets travel or see someone blocking them at anything approaching 25 meters is distorted time.”
    /
    Except it doesn’t take even half a second for the bullets to travel to Raiden from that distance which suggests little amount of frames for the bullet to travel, so it still fits in the real time.
    /
    “The movie had to slow itself down in order for you to follow the action, like Cloud cutting bullets out of the air or the building falling.
    Even when it’s not “super-slow” you’re still looking at distorted time because you’re watching Cloud cut visibly traveling bullets out of the air.
    It’s not about looking good, it’s about the principle that once you have people cutting bullets, you’re not looking at 100% real-time.”
    /
    We don’t exactly have that for Metal Gear Rising Revengeance, and when we do, it’s for blade mode scenes usually.
    /
    “And as a consequence of not 100% real-time, you’re going to have discrepancies where everything doesn’t work together. They can’t alter the entire game to not be real-time.
    Like sirens, distances, and other environment-based effects. They’re not going to match up to the feats because that would be the entire game.”
    /
    I know for the fact that the distances part is right. We can scale Raiden’s to the objective marker. Besides, Platinum games, while having short games, are able to make games to scale except for possibly for Transformers, but that’s more of Transformers’ fault because Transformers’ has never been accurate to scale from it’s debut.
    I don’t know why you keep on mentioning sirens.
    /
    “And Raiden has feats from QTEs, which are taken as cutscenes too. That includes multiple instances of bullet-timing, meaning whenever you see him moving his sword you’re looking at distorted time.”
    /
    None of the QTE sequences have bullet timing.
    Furthermore, we know it’s distorted timing because blade mode is activated.
    /
    “Just like how Dante’s battles with Vergil can be seen despite both moving at supersonic speeds; just because there isn’t a massive time-slow doesn’t mean time isn’t being distorted for you to follow the action.”
    /
    They don’t move at super sonic speeds. I already disproved Vergil’s in a cutscene, Aelfinn pointed out that one rotation could’ve caught all the bullets.
    The only thing that’s super sonic is some of the attacks OriginalA pointed out, and that attacks
    /
    “For the above reasons, I do not think sirens and sounds being in real-time disprove higher speeds from Raiden.”
    /
    …Okay, now I can see what the confusion is really about.
    You’re really not familiar with the Metal Gear series.
    Ever since the first old game, it had a countdown system after you’ve been caught or if enemies are wary of your presense. It’s not an actual alarm sound going off (well, there’s an alarm but that’s not the important part). It’s a timer. We see that the timer displays real time with the countdown going as fast as a countdown would go in real life.
    That’s what I have been talking about.
    …You see, I was kinda confused when you mentioned sound. Maybe I should have been really specific. I didn’t mean alarm as sound, but the countdown.

  50. Alpha or Omega January 12, 2016 at 5:34 pm -      #50

    @Aelfinn
    “When he enters Blade Mode with the Giant Excelsus Sword.
    youtu.be/9AYoswl6fug?t=6m49s
    I mean, you can see videos where he cuts it 4 or 5 times, but that one has him going to 19. All of it happens in less than a second based on how little all the pieces move.”
    /
    That is not in less than a second.
    We see objects move significantly in the time slow and we see them fall slowly, but not in a crawl.
    It’s more like multiple seconds in a slower time frame.
    /
    “I don’t doubt it is a game mechanic. Just because there might be an in-universe explanation for a lack of indentation doesn’t automatically mean that explanation is correct, especially because it’s a fan explanation and isn’t canon in the slightest.”
    /
    The Metroid Zero Mission self destruction scene shows some of the environment made from the materials survive a massive explosion that can come from the core of the planet and and be seen as a huge explosion from space.
    /
    “Regardless, we see Samus regularly break floors when she falls on them in cutscenes and the regular Metroid games don’t have fully destructible environments, which means the walls weren’t coded with the ability to break.”
    /
    From a massive height only and only in certain planets.
    Unless you’re referring to the opening to Other M.
    That was more likely done by the hyper beam Mother Brain had with her since the floor already looks weak from it.
    /
    “Armstrong is explicitly stronger and more durable than Raiden. He punched Raiden so hard the Metal Gear underneath him blew up. Of course Armstrong isn’t going to suffer damage, because when the sword can’t cut through the nanomachines, that means the pressure isn’t applied to anything past the nanomachines. Raiden never delivers an attack strong enough to send Armstrong flying.”
    /
    Armstrong didn’t do it in one punch mind you. He did that from several punches. This has nothing to do with durability either.
    /
    Nanomachines don’t prevent pressure from the earth’s core damaging his internals. Furthermore, as I pointed out, his heart isn’t as durable as the nanomachine reinforced body since he did it effortlessly without blade mode. If Armstrong doesn’t fly from the attack, that also proves my point since Armstrong doesn’t even weigh a ton and doesn’t get sent flying back. MGRR has as much math as Ironman.
    /
    “Sam had an exoskeleton, firstly. Secondly, he was able to, with no enhancements, take on drug empires with just his katana. The only explanation is that he was just that good.”
    /
    An exoskeleton with the least cybernetic enhancements.
    The drug empires don’t tell us anything.
    /
    “Gray Fox was able to deflect bullets decades before Raiden’s body was made, and we can see, or rather, we can’t see, the sword moving and deflecting bullets at close range.”
    /
    …You do know the cybernetic exoskeleton is not responsible for his bullet timing since he has been bullet timing in Portable Ops where he doesn’t have an exoskeleton and blocks Big Boss’ bullets.
    Dok also said Cybernetic enhancements don’t change reaction times. Only speed and strength.

  51. OriginalA January 12, 2016 at 5:42 pm -      #51

    okay, attempt to post number 11:
    www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/960513-metal-gear-rising-revengeance/answers/346028-how-do-i-get-the-wigs

    www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/960699-metal-gear-rising-revengeance/cheats

    metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Gear_Rising:_Revengeance_secrets

    Wigs require you collect 10, 20, 30 arms AND complete the game before they are unlocked.

    IGN is wrong. The Wigs are a NG+ item.

  52. Mea quidem sententia January 12, 2016 at 5:48 pm -      #52

    @Aelfinn
    How slow is time going? I’d prefer reaction time and how you came to that conclusion.

    I still don’t think it’s a game mechanic. If we can see that bendezium receives no damage from missiles in Metroid Prime, which utilize the Munroe effect based on how they’re described by Anthony Higgs in Metroid: Other M, then I doubt the shinespark is efficient in damaging bendezium. Metroid Prime is graphically superior to Metroid: Zero Mission and Super Metroid. Still, I will humor you.

    The morph ball is slightly smaller than a diameter, as Samus was able to enter a tunnel that is a meter in diameter from the scan data. Still, I’ll go with 0.5 m. With the varia suit’s damage reduction, that’s 16,479.73 tons-force. Admittedly, that’s 43% of what you claim Raiden can dish out. I still doubt it’d kill Samus. However, I am still not convinced that this is applicable because of how slow Raiden’s slicing is with Excelsus’ arm, which is significantly lighter to Excelsus itself.

    All you can work with is how fast Raiden slices with his blade during blade mode. So even if you still wanted to apply force from the arm over to Raiden, the measurement from the arm must be determined, not all of Excelsus. Furthermore, all of Excelsus is not made of a homogeneous material. Naruto Forums claimed to have made a very rough estimate. The inner workings of Excelsus will be lighter, relatively speaking.

  53. OriginalA January 12, 2016 at 5:53 pm -      #53

    I don’t know why but I don’t seem to be able to post here anymore.

    Also IGN is wrong. You are required to beat the game to unlock wigs.

    EDIT:
    Well… okay I think the links I’m trying to put through are not being allowed in the posts.

    The MetalGear wiki and Gamefaqs both confirm that completing the game is required to unlock the wigs. IGN is wrong. They put OR instead of AND. The Wigs are NG+

  54. admin January 13, 2016 at 9:45 am -      #54

    @OriginalA – Sorry about your comments getting thrown into moderation hell. I was testing something and for whatever reason, only your comments were picked. Everything for you *should* be working fine. – Admin

  55. Mea quidem sententia January 12, 2016 at 6:13 pm -      #55

    @OriginalA
    I don’t know why, either. Well, unless we can get someone else to support Friendlysociopath with regard to wig access, the current agreement is 2/3.

  56. Alpha or Omega January 12, 2016 at 7:40 pm -      #56

    Derp, I misread that sentence. I didn’t see the “Or” part and thought it said “And.”
    /
    @OriginalA
    “The MetalGear wiki and Gamefaqs both confirm that completing the game is required to unlock the wigs. IGN is wrong. They put OR instead of AND. The Wigs are NG+”
    /
    To be fair, I think that might’ve been a typo on the Left Arm IGN page.
    The Wigs IGN page that I posted gives the correct requirement.
    /
    @Mea
    I have the game MGRR, and I can confirm that the game needs to be beaten as well.

  57. Mea quidem sententia January 12, 2016 at 7:53 pm -      #57

    @Alpha or Omega
    I wanted to play MGR:R, but I can’t because I don’t have the game or console necessary. I like Raiden.

    Anyway, I am going to see later if I can determine how much energy the plasma beam produces, since the laser it fires would need to ionize the air, producing a laser-induced plasma channel. I still have no clue how well Raiden can withstand low thermal energy, or radio waves, or even plasma. Excelsus uses plasma, and it wouldn’t make sense to use that on Raiden if he’s immune. Furthermore, if carbon nanotubes have any relation to graphene, then it would make it an excellent thermal conductor, meaning high thermal energy wil hurt.

  58. Friendlysociopath January 12, 2016 at 8:13 pm -      #58

    To be fair, I think that might’ve been a typo on the Left Arm IGN page.

    I came across a forum that was talking about what it took to gain the wigs, several people said the wiki was wrong and you didn’t have to beat the game to unlock them.
    When I found an IGN article that seemed to back that up, I went with it. I personally did not gain all 30 arms without first beating the game- so I do not know if it can be achieved without doing so.

    I still have no clue how well Raiden can withstand low thermal energy, or radio waves, or even plasma.

    I’m unsure how well gameplay serves in this regard, but in his fight against Armstrong.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbQdxGe0sqU
    Armstrong was causing “fire” streams of energy and heat to fly around. Albeit I have no idea how hot they would be.

    And as for plasma
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypphRK14t8
    This Metal Gear has a “hydro cutter” that is referred to as a “plasma cannon”.

    Now in both of those cases there’s no proof Raiden was ever hit by these attacks (although it would not be a stretch considering we see Raiden get struck by bosses in several cutscenes and QTEs) but in-game if you are hit by them it will only deal a small amount of damage- it doesn’t oneshot Raiden.

    Also, both Metal Gear Ray and Excelsus have large blades that are described as “Heat Blades”. Raiden grabs those blades to throw and bodyslam each opponent respectively.

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