Vincent Valentine Vs Richard Rahl

Vincent Valentine Vs Richard Rahl

Suggested by Nsl98

Vincent Valentine (Final Fantasy) will go up against Richard Rahl (Sword of Truth).

Fight takes place in the meadow where Bambi’s mom died.

Who prevails?

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25 Comments on "Vincent Valentine Vs Richard Rahl"

  1. Commander Cross December 15, 2015 at 12:34 am -      #1

    I say this may take a while unless we get stuck with ‘Super Rahl’ all over again, and is Vincent using his most Powerful forms for this fight to start with and does he have his most powerful guns available?

  2. Friendlysociopath December 15, 2015 at 12:38 am -      #2

    Well that’s an odd match but alright.

    youtu.be/jsjWHQHnICw?t=510
    Not sure if the time stamps work this way so @8:30. Vincent dodges rockets and shoots down a chopper.

    youtu.be/tG5lxPWVG7U
    @2:27 Vincent shows some bullet dodging
    @6:24 Bit of physical strength
    @8:40 Takes down another helicopter (he does that a lot)
    @9:30 Apparently his gauntlets are decently sturdy

    youtu.be/tG5lxPWVG7U
    @6:57 Reflexes to shoot a hound almost instantly
    @7:52 He’s a really good shot
    @9:10 Another strength feat, boots that hound a fair distance

  3. Jake_Uzumaki December 15, 2015 at 1:14 am -      #3

    Off topic but looking at his picture it seems like he should have fought Vash the Stampede at some point on FP yet he hasn’t (granted I’ve heard some completely ridiculous stuff about Vash at his strongest so…) but again that’s just looking at the picture.

    So..this fight is magic gunslinger vs magic swordsman basically? Or is Vincent a FF character without Materia/Magic?

  4. Friendlysociopath December 15, 2015 at 12:34 pm -      #4

    Or is Vincent a FF character without Materia/Magic?

    Unlike Cloud and Tifa, Vincent would have no access to the giant chest in Aerith’s church.
    He does come across 3 types of materia that he links to his gun though:
    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gun_Customization#Accessories
    Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder
    Fire makes his bullets explode in a fairly decent fireball
    Blizzard freezes his opponents solid
    and Thunder fires a bolt of electricity
    Other than that, no, Vincent is a loner and doesn’t take any of the materia with him.

    youtu.be/divmUjpYyy0?t=2m50s
    Vincent is a man who loves to make an entrance
    Shoots Kadaj’s blade mid-swing to save Cloud (bearing in mind Cloud and Kadaj have both clearly been stated and shown to easily cut bullets out of the air)
    @3:00 Apparently has some form of invisibility/camouflage with his cape and can fire out of it without being there
    @3:08 Bullets that pierce steel go right through him for reasons
    @3:10 Remember that he’s carrying Cloud, AND like 500-700 pounds of sword while jumping around like that

    Hell on a stick- did SE take down EVERY version of Vincent and company fighting Bahamut Tremor?

  5. Jake_Uzumaki December 15, 2015 at 1:44 pm -      #5

    Okay still he seems pretty damn impressive

  6. Friendlysociopath December 15, 2015 at 3:47 pm -      #6

    Eh, well I’m still here might as well post these too

    youtu.be/c1UCZKLJS_g?t=390
    @6:30 if timestamp doesn’t work
    Vincent casually flying around on a airdrop-skateboard-something and oneshotting a helicopter again

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPEMfyb7kio
    Honorary mention of Vincent when deciding to go all-out. Him and Weiss are throwing afterimages at one another and speeding around like maniacal little anime kids.

    youtu.be/c3yJDF-u4DI?t=5m15s
    Annnnnd why not, ending cinematic where Chaos punches Omega WEAPON into nothing with a rather fancy-looking explosion.

  7. Aelfinn December 15, 2015 at 3:58 pm -      #7

    I of course must mention Richard’s subtractive magic, which sends to the Underworld any target it hits. It’s Richard’s OHKO, and is fairly dangerous. He’s also shot an arrow out of the air with an arrow of his own, drawn, and shot another arrow out of the air. Both arrows were in the air at the same time.

  8. DokuSaki December 16, 2015 at 7:58 pm -      #8

    @Aelfinn
    Would not work. Vincent carries a ribbon, should negate the effects. If not he is immortal and can not die. He can be killed. Vincent is a casual bullet timer, so i doubt arrows are gonna be a threat.

    @Friendly
    The giant chest of material is technically yuffies and is not cloud’s.

    Another thing to note is that vincent has about 4 forms they are Galian Beast, Death Gigas, Hellmasker and Chaos. Most notable forms are Hellmasker and Chaos. Hellmasker for the amount of status alinements it brings (Inflicts confusion, mute, sleep, frog and mini on one enemy.) I cover chaos more when i get some time.

  9. Friendlysociopath December 16, 2015 at 8:41 pm -      #9

    I of course must mention Richard’s subtractive magic, which sends to the Underworld any target it hits.

    So how would that work in a world that isn’t the same world (Bambi’s Meadow)? Because Vincent has been absorbed into other dimensions before- and he got back out.

    The giant chest of material is technically yuffies and is not cloud’s.

    The giant chest of materia is not Yuffie’s because it contains the materia Cloud didn’t want her to have. Which is why Yuffie is able to show up later with an armful of materia- her materia.

  10. DokuSaki December 17, 2015 at 4:11 am -      #10

    “The giant chest of materia is not Yuffie’s because it contains the materia Cloud didn’t want her to have. Which is why Yuffie is able to show up later with an armful of materia- her materia.”

    There is two reasons that it’s Yuffies. 1) Yufffie made a deal with cloud so he would get the materia after the defeat of sephiroth (this is in game.) 2) On a way to a smile, A canon book. Mentions after sephiroths defeat that cloud gives it to yuffie, but cloud takes all the dangerous material. Thats why yuffie has all the healing materia.

  11. Friendlysociopath December 17, 2015 at 11:12 am -      #11

    On a way to a smile, A canon book. Mentions after sephiroths defeat that cloud gives it to yuffie, but cloud takes all the dangerous material.

    That’s what I said, Yuffie already has all of her materia, the stuff Cloud has is the “dangerous materia” that he didn’t want her to have.
    So it’s *his* materia, maybe Tifa’s too if you want to stretch it; but nobody else has access to it.
    Cloud and Tifa have the box.
    Vincent has his own materia.
    Red XIII has his own materia.
    Cait Sith/Reeve has his own materia.
    Barrett doesn’t like the stuff.
    Yuffie has the healing ones.
    And Cid’s off flying his ship.
    Course, half of this could be retconned as of the Remake so we’ll see what happens.

  12. Aelfinn December 17, 2015 at 2:06 pm -      #12

    “Would not work. Vincent carries a ribbon, should negate the effects. If not he is immortal and can not die. He can be killed. Vincent is a casual bullet timer, so i doubt arrows are gonna be a threat.”

    Why would the Ribbon negates its effects? Now, I’m not the most knowledgeable with Final Fantasy, but I haven’t heard of a Ribbon that prevents dimensional travel. I’m not an expert at Richard’s reaction times either, but the arrow-shooting thing was brought up for that reason. Not to mention that Richard also sees things in slow motion when he uses his magic, so that can also be useful. He’s done things like catch crossbow bolts.
    =
    “So how would that work in a world that isn’t the same world (Bambi’s Meadow)? Because Vincent has been absorbed into other dimensions before- and he got back out.”

    Well the Underworld is also where stuff goes when it dies soooooo it’s pretty much magic that kills you, effectively. The Underworld also has something called a “veil” that keeps the big evil, the “Keeper” from getting out (*cough*The Dark One*cough*).

  13. Friendlysociopath December 17, 2015 at 3:13 pm -      #13

    Now, I’m not the most knowledgeable with Final Fantasy, but I haven’t heard of a Ribbon that prevents dimensional travel.

    Well actually “Remove” is a real spell in-game that does something similar in that it simply removes your enemies- when enemies cast it on the party it is instead treated as “Instant Death” magic, which Ribbon blocks- take that as you will.

    Well the Underworld is also where stuff goes when it dies soooooo it’s pretty much magic that kills you, effectively.

    If it kills you and as a consequence you go to the Underworld, then it’s just magic that kills you- which then begs the question of whether it would count as auto-KO magic, which Ribbon would deal with.
    Albeit, isn’t this match pretty much going to be Vincent raises his gun and fires a few rounds at Richard? Unless he busts out magic freely (which I believe he does not) he’s in for a rough time.

    I’m not an expert at Richard’s reaction times either, but the arrow-shooting thing was brought up for that reason.

    Well arrows are approximately 10x slower than bullets on average, so someone who can consistently catch/deflect arrows would still be quite a bit behind a bullet-timer.
    And frankly Vincent’s probably well above that what with the bit where he and Weiss are jumping around in little flashes of light.

    The Underworld also has something called a “veil” that keeps the big evil, the “Keeper” from getting out

    Fairly standard trope, Dragon Age has this exact formula as well. And it’s used in D&D books more often than I can even count.

  14. Alpha or Omega December 17, 2015 at 4:40 pm -      #14

    Cloud vs Richard Rahl 2.0
    Now with more guns.
    /
    How fast was this arrow and what’s the distance the arrow traveled before Rahl sent another arrow to intercept it?
    His reaction times would be less than the time it took for the arrow traveled.

  15. DokuSaki December 17, 2015 at 8:41 pm -      #15

    @Friendly
    “Well actually “Remove” is a real spell in-game that does something similar in that it simply removes your enemies- when enemies cast it on the party it is instead treated as “Instant Death” magic, which Ribbon blocks- take that as you will.”

    Let me expand that. There are two types of instant death ff7, there is is instant death and what is called gravity attacks. Example; Death, is an instant death attack, Remove, is Gravity. Ribbon does not block instant death attacks. It does block gravity attacks.

    “Not to mention that Richard also sees things in slow motion when he uses his magic, so that can also be useful. He’s done things like catch crossbow bolts.”

    Bow: 225 feet per second / 300fps (compound).
    Crossbow: 300 feet per second.
    Gun: 2,500 feet per second. (handgun)
    Also not to mention Vincent’s bullets go through an entire helicopter multiple times (youtu.be/BjEK0Nq1tvY?t=6m14s)

  16. Zazax December 17, 2015 at 11:33 pm -      #16

    “Let me expand that. There are two types of instant death ff7, there is is instant death and what is called gravity attacks. Example; Death, is an instant death attack, Remove, is Gravity. Ribbon does not block instant death attacks. It does block gravity attacks.”
    Just about everything in this paragraph is false.
    Gravity attacks in FF7 are *not* instant death effects. It’s actually impossible to die from them, since they always do a % of your current HP as damage.
    Additionally, Remove is not in any way related to Gravity. It’s on the Exit materia (not the Gravity materia), and is just FF7’s version of spells like X-Zone and Banish.
    Additionally, the Ribbon does not protect against Gravity. The Ribbon protects against status effects, and Gravity is considered an ‘element’ in FF7, much like Fire or Ice.
    However, it is true that the Ribbon does not protect against Death. You need Added Effect + Destruct/Odin for that. Or a Safety Bit. Or the Death Force Enemy Skill. Or the Resist spell.

  17. DokuSaki December 18, 2015 at 12:09 am -      #17

    @zazax
    I am not talking about the element, it’s a hidden propriety in the game, as far as i am aware these are all the gravity attacks in the game. Odin, remove and lv4 suicide. There are more but i cannot think of them. That’s why some instant death attacks work on some enemies and not on others.

  18. Zazax December 18, 2015 at 1:42 am -      #18

    Do you have a source for this? Because I’ve been looking and I can’t find anything about that.
    The closest thing I can think of is ‘the’ Hidden, but I’m not sure if that’s what you’re talking about. And if it is, it’s still wrong, since it’s still an element, even if it’s a hidden one (it’s aptly named), so Ribbon still doesn’t protect against it, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Instant Death effects.

  19. DokuSaki December 18, 2015 at 2:23 am -      #19

    @Zazax
    No there are two hidden elements in final fantasy 7 cut and slash. Status effects there are a few including gravity. Ribbon does not protect from the following Manipulate (as far as my testing), Haste, Protect, Shell, Reflect, Shield, Death, Near Death, Peerless, Lucky 7s, Seizure, Lucky girl, Defend and Imprisoned. As for my source i point to the 20,000 hours on final fantasy 7. I have tested the mechanics of final fantasy 7 for a very long time and i am quite adept at them to the point that i doubt anyone on the site has my knowledge of the game.

  20. Zazax December 18, 2015 at 4:27 am -      #20

    “No there are two hidden elements in final fantasy 7 cut and slash.”
    If you’re talking about what I think you’re talking about there’s actually 5 (Hit, Cut, Punch, Shoot, and Shout), and they’re not so much individual elements as they are subcategories of ‘physical attack’.
    Calling them ‘elements’ in the same way as something like Fire or Ice is silly. It’s just game mechanics, and it’s immediately apparent that they’re not considered ‘elements’ in-universe or even in-game like the traditional elements are (see: their absence in the ‘Element’ section of the Status window, and the Shield spell, which ‘absorbs all elemental damage’, not absorbing these types of damage). Hell, they aren’t even treated the same as the other elements by the actual, in-universe Elemental materia.
    And then, after taking those into account, there’s also Hidden, which is also pretty much just game mechanics. Not even the Ziedrich protects against it, and it is only present in a handful of abilities in the entire game, most notably Aeris/th’s Limit Breaks, and Ultima Beam (the only way you’ll be damaged by it short of shenanigans).
    Regardless, this is entirely tangential to the discussion.

    “Ribbon does not protect from…”
    I didn’t claim that Ribbon protected from *all* statuses, just that it *only* protects against statuses.

    “Status effects there are a few including gravity”
    As for some sort of hidden ‘gravity’ status, I literally cannot find anything like this anywhere. The only ‘hidden’ status I can think of (other than stuff like Lucky 7s, Seizure, and Imprisoned which are kinda-sorta-but-not-really hidden) is Dual, which was Dummied Out.
    In fact, literally every source I can find says otherwise. As far as I can discover, Odin, Remove, and Lv4 (and 5) Death (which I assume you meant instead of Lv4 Suicide, which despite the name doesn’t even kill the target) both inflict the same Death status as every other Death-inflicting ability.

    If you can point me to an actual corroborating source for this mysterious status, then please do so, because I have never heard of this before.

  21. Commander Cross December 18, 2015 at 12:53 pm -      #21

    Well we know one thing’s clear:
    The Sword of Truth can’t tank anything as hot as 3,000 degrees fahrenheit of heat, which Lava produces.
    If Rahl tries to deflect a shot from Vincent’s strongest guns, The Sword of Truth gets destroyed here.
    This could lead to another quick-draw session or two if one doesn’t watch it.

  22. DokuSaki December 18, 2015 at 3:02 pm -      #22

    “Calling them ‘elements’ in the same way as something like Fire or Ice is silly. It’s just game mechanics, and it’s immediately apparent that they’re not considered ‘elements’ in-universe or even in-game like the traditional elements are (see: their absence in the ‘Element’ section of the Status window, and the Shield spell, which ‘absorbs all elemental damage’, not absorbing these types of damage). Hell, they aren’t even treated the same as the other elements by the actual, in-universe Elemental materia.
    And then, after taking those into account, there’s also Hidden, which is also pretty much just game mechanics. Not even the Ziedrich protects against it, and it is only present in a handful of abilities in the entire game, most notably Aeris/th’s Limit Breaks, and Ultima Beam (the only way you’ll be damaged by it short of shenanigans).
    Regardless, this is entirely tangential to the discussion.”

    Don’t argue with me about the slash and cut elements because that’s what the classes them as and that’s been proven independently form multiple sources, even the wiki has it there.

    My point is this, if you cast remove on a character with ribbon, it does not effect them. Why it does not effect i have explained Above.

    Also for the record, I think Vincent has this unless someone can provide any evidence for Richard being able to dodge bullets or something similar consistently or tanking something similar. From what i have read about the sword of truth the magic is alot slower then magic in ff7. I think base vincent can take this. Until someone proves otherwise i will not debate about chaos or other forms. I do however admit that Richard has this if it comes to melee, though i dout Richard can even catch vincent.

  23. Zazax December 18, 2015 at 10:25 pm -      #23

    “Don’t argue with me about the slash and cut elements because that’s what the classes them as and that’s been proven independently form multiple sources, even the wiki has it there.”
    So your argument basically boils down to “because I said so”? Awesome.
    If your claims are backed up my multiple sources, then actually post some.
    As for the wiki, I think you’ll be disappointed, since I actually verified everything I said from it and other sources before posting.
    Yes, ‘technically’ the five attributes are treated as elements in the game system. However, the only things in the game that have them are the weapons you equip and a tiny handful of enemy abilities, most of which go unnamed in game because they’re the enemy’s default attack. It is also completely impossible to interact with any of them individually like it is with every single other element (via accessories or materia, including the actual Elemental materia). The only leg you have to stand on is that, buried in the actual mechanics of the game, they’re technically elements, despite literally everything else in the game saying they’re not, at least not in the same way the other, more traditional elements are. That is the definition of game mechanics (as opposed to fluff/lore), and is not permissible on this site.

    “My point is this, if you cast remove on a character with ribbon, it does not effect them. Why it does not effect i have explained Above.”
    You haven’t actually provided any proof whatsoever for your claim, which is especially bad when every source *I* can find says exactly the opposite. If you have a source, post it. Otherwise we can only assume you’re making stuff up.
    I mean, I can give you an actual example of my claims. Only one enemy in the game uses Remove on the player; the Death Dealers around Corel via their Hidden One attack. When they do this, immunity to Instant Death will protect your character. That’s immunity to the bog-standard Instant Death, the same status the Death spell inflicts, not any sort of special, hidden gravity instant death status.

    “Also for the record, I think Vincent has this unless someone can provide any evidence for Richard being able to dodge bullets or something similar consistently or tanking something similar.”
    However, despite my disagreement with the rest of the post, I agree with this. Magic may not even be required. Bullets > arrows.

  24. LadyRamkin December 19, 2015 at 12:41 am -      #24

    “Fight takes place in the meadow where Bambi’s mom died.”

    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5f/7d/34/5f7d346f0a11d12e678ee687a58b880f.jpg

  25. DokuSaki December 19, 2015 at 7:34 pm -      #25

    “The only leg you have to stand on is that, buried in the actual mechanics of the game, they’re technically elements, despite literally everything else in the game saying they’re not, at least not in the same way the other, more traditional elements are. That is the definition of game mechanics (as opposed to fluff/lore), and is not permissible on this site.”

    If you want lore reason i can provide them, it’s the first is the xenomorph of chaos. Chaos is the physical harbinger of death and herald to the end of the world. In other words he is a demigod. It’s the reason he can live having a baseball sized hole in his chest and super regeneration, immortal and has not aged a day past 25 infact being 50ish. Second is that richard is not gonna hit Vincent, his cast times are too long and Vincent is too fast.

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