HMS Fearless Vs UNSC Infinity

HMS Fearless Vs UNSC Infinity

Suggested by Ordo11

Hms Fearless (Honorverse) will go up against UNSC Infinity (Halo).

Fearless starts within infinities’ range, but she has her wedge between her and Infinity.

Which ship walks away?

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96 Comments on "HMS Fearless Vs UNSC Infinity"

  1. Ninja Lowk November 29, 2015 at 12:39 am -      #1

    The ultimate battle
    Vibrator ship vs Dildo ship

  2. Ordo11 November 29, 2015 at 12:49 am -      #2

    Basically, I did this before that reach one. Also, I wanted to see how we would debate her wedge going into this, and I thought it would be a fun exercise in small maneuverable ship vs. large hard to kill ship. It also has less range than the ships from the fleets I threw in there.

  3. lethal_gecko November 29, 2015 at 5:36 am -      #3

    I just looked up the Fearless and… the Infinity tears it to pieces.
    [#]
    In chase guns, the Fearless has just 3. While i don’t know how powerful they are, the Infinity has 2 Super Macs at its front I believe which sounds more powerful than 2 missile tubes and a laser.
    [#]
    In terms of broadsiding, well this is where Fearless dies as the Wedge is at its front currently. The Infinity can easily jump beside the Fearless and open up with its broadside that has hundreds of times the amount of weapons than the Fearless. Or just fly towards it then attack as its weapons won’t be enough to stop her from getting close.
    [#]
    Another factor is that the Infinity includes vast amounts of Forerunner technology which is beyond that of the Honourverse from what i can tell.
    [#]
    Also, the Infinity’s broadside missiles can fire around the wedge with ease.
    It can also jump into slipspace then jump back at a different angle from the Fearless and ram it where the wedge isn’t. This is a one hit kill to most ships as the Infinity is built like a ram. The biggest ship its rammed so far is 2km+ and its shields barely flared.
    [#]
    In terms of defensive power, the Infinity took hits from Forerunner particle cannons that were capable of one shotting smaller UNSC warships.

  4. itcheyness November 29, 2015 at 10:46 am -      #4

    Does the Infinity get its complement of fighters and Frigates that it takes everywhere with it? I normally wouldn’t ask about the Frigates, but they are carried within the Infinity.

  5. lethal_gecko November 29, 2015 at 10:59 am -      #5

    Yes, unless OP changes it.

  6. itcheyness November 29, 2015 at 1:43 pm -      #6

    I was asking to verify OP’s intent.

    It’s possible that it slipped their mind the the Infinity carries a fleet with it.

  7. lethal_gecko November 29, 2015 at 1:53 pm -      #7

    Good point. But it would be like asking if the Infinity gets its bullets and missiles for its guns as well.

  8. itcheyness November 29, 2015 at 2:58 pm -      #8

    Except that OP made it sound like the Infinity doesn’t get them when Ordo said: “I thought it would be a fun exercise in small maneuverable ship vs. large hard to kill ship.”

    Especially since a Strident class heavy frigate like the ones the Infinity carries, are actually bigger than the Fearless, and the Infinity carries 10 of them…

  9. Ordo11 November 29, 2015 at 4:42 pm -      #9

    Yes it gets them, and the fearless’s power isn’t in its chase guns. It is in its broadside. Also the wedge is supposedly able to tank exotons now that I have confirmation on what a smaller ship than fearless would do if it rammed a planet. It can reach speeds up to 90% of light speed and can turn on a dime, but inertia effects it. It will probably zoom around infinity at around ohh, 20,000 kilometers per second after it takes off with its initial accelerate being around ohh, 5 km/second squared. Basically its initial best chance is to get lucky with missiles and get through the impressive pd of Honorverse. Basically even though this is before mdms and podnaughts it will still out range infinity as even its macs shouldn’t have a 1000000 kilometer range, which unless it is running away faster than I thought it could move, they should be able to blast away with missiles from a safe distance with the point defense guns being useless, as they don’t shoot to 300,000 kilometers away where the X-Ray lasers fire off. Basically this is a fight of how strong the shields on infinity are and how far it can shoot. Also, how well do its shields do against plasma?

  10. OriginalA November 29, 2015 at 8:33 pm -      #10

    Is this the CL-56 Fearless (first book) or the CA-286 Fearless (second book). Cause that changes things a bit.

  11. Ordo11 November 29, 2015 at 8:44 pm -      #11

    Let’s do second book, and then see if it stomps, and if it stomps switch it to first book, no matter what post number.

  12. OriginalA November 29, 2015 at 10:26 pm -      #12

    Ok.

    So, as per OP, the Fearless’s wedge is between her and the Infinity. That means that as a starting position the Infinity is either “above” or “below” the Fearless. Now the gravity shear produced by the Wedge is going to annihilate anything that the Infinity tries to throw at that.

    Pretty standard particle shielding on all Honorverse ships can deflect up to about 7.7 gigatons of kinetic energy. This makes any MAC based weapon useless against the Fearless with exception to the Super MACs that the Infinity carries. This also means that the Strident frigates that the Infinity carries will be unable to damage the Fearless at all with their MACs. Same for the Archer missiles because they too will have to get through the particle shielding and they aren’t very massive or (relatively) fast… contact missiles suck.

    … Actually I think the only weapon the Infinity has that can get through just the Particle Shielding of the Fearless is the Super MAC. The Side Walls and Wedge are the Fearless’s primary passive defenses against actual weapons, and those are significantly more powerful than the Particle Shields.

    I think the Infinity has to get a lucky shot down the throat or up the kilt of the Fearless’s wedge (and between the Side Walls) with a direct shot with a solid slug that cannot maneuver after it has been launched. Sure, if it hits it will probably kill in a single hit, but I don’t think that shot will ever hit more than 10% of the time in 100 attempts.

    infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/100/1#wedge

    On the flip side, the Infinity has no Wedge. The Infinity does not bend space around it to absurd amounts of gravities-per-second. The Fearless could ram the Infinity if nothing else, and it could do so from some 100,000 km away of physically touching the Infinity because the Wedge is so much larger than the actual ship.

    And all of this stuff applies to either Fearless, so I guess my asking which one was kinda pointless.

    Source for Particle Shields: infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/127/1

  13. Ordo11 November 29, 2015 at 11:22 pm -      #13

    Where did you get the 7.7 gigatons number?

  14. OriginalA November 30, 2015 at 1:58 am -      #14

    In the source for the Particle Shields. It mentions 2 metric tons at 60% lightspeed. That comes out to 7.7 gigatons of kinetic energy.

  15. Karen Starr November 30, 2015 at 2:11 am -      #15

    Oh I just noticed, are those both from the actual author then? I just glanced at the header in the tab, and it mentions the author’s name.

  16. OriginalA November 30, 2015 at 2:31 am -      #16

    Yup. It’s his responses to and extra notes about the Honorverse and its inner workings.

    infodump.thefifthimperium.com/series/Harrington/

    That’s the whole list as far as I know.

  17. lethal_gecko November 30, 2015 at 2:38 am -      #17

    Because of Forerunner technology, the Infinity can travel accurately at faster than light speeds which makes it untargetable. Jump, jump back to the side of the wedge, ram, done. There’s not much getting around that.
    [#]
    Unofficially, the Infinity has energy projectors (debated) which changes things significantly when it comes to hitting the Fearless but the ram tactic still takes the lead and will be most effective. If the Fearless is smaller than the frigates then the Infinity won’t even flinch yet alone notice it getting smashed to bits on impact.

  18. mack006 November 30, 2015 at 2:52 am -      #18

    Wow… both ships do look kinda phallic

  19. OriginalA November 30, 2015 at 3:25 am -      #19

    “Jump, jump back to the side of the wedge, ram, done. There’s not much getting around that.”

    Congratulations, you’ve just run into the Side Wall; a gravity shear measured in thousands of g. You’ll cause some damage to the Fearless, but the Infinity will be nothing but splinters in the blink of an eye.

    The Infinity also gets a face full of lasers that autotarget massive objects within a set distance.

    Also, proof that the Infinity can plot a course through massive gravitic flux forces? As far as I know, even a single planet’s gravity can cause some trouble with plotting the correct course. A side wall is several thousand times more turbulent than a single planet’s gravity, and the Wedge itself is even greater by far. Meanwhile, the best I’ve ever seen a UNSC ship jump through is what would be relatively “calm” gravitic forces.

    And even if the Infinity has energy projectors, those still have to get through the Sidewalls, which bend lasers because they are such powerful gravity fields, and on top of that the Fearless itself can move itself while its sidewalls and wedge remain relatively stationary, which makes the Fearless’s position inside its Sidewalls and Wedge relatively unknown. And, of course, the Fearless would be shooting back with its own laser arsenal, as well as its missiles, and possibly even its counter-missiles, which are kamikaze missiles that use their wedge to obliterate small targets which, since the Infinity doesn’t have a wedge, would turn the Infinity into splinters at the slightest touch.

    Before anyone else brings up slipspace tactics again, prove one specific thing:
    SHOW PROOF that the Infinity can jump near to, threw, and/or inside a several thousand g gravity flux phenomenon. If you cannot prove that, then you cannot claim that the Infinity can successfully jump anywhere even close to the Fearless’s position because there is a huge gravity flux around that ship, both above and below, and to both sides, with only a relatively small (something like 40k by 150k km box) opening of normal gravity… and that’s only if the Fearless is actually facing the Infinity, which if that’s happening then the Fearless has already done something wrong to begin with.

    Another additional: the Infinity doesn’t keep its super high relativistic velocity when it leaves Slipspace. The one time we’ve seen the Infinity come out of slipspace and ram a ship at the same time, the Infinity was moving at a relative crawl.at about 1km/s. It will take the Fearless 0.2 seconds to match this speed from a dead stop. At one full second the Infinity will barely still be leaving Slipspace; the Fearless will be 5 kilometers away from its starting position. At 3 full seconds, the Infinity will be just past half way done with leaving Slipspace; the Fearless will be 15 kilometers away from its starting position. At 5 seconds, the Infinity will finally be done leaving Slipspace… the Fearless will be 25 kilometers away from its starting position.

    How is the Infinity going to ram something that can go from complete rest to 25 kilometers away in the time it takes the Infinity to move just 5 kilometers while it translates out of FTL?

  20. Ordo11 November 30, 2015 at 12:36 pm -      #20

    My second comment was basically an apology, as at the time I suggested this, I didn’t realize how unfair a fight this was.

    Also there was that time they used covenant sensors and slipspace drive to jump out of the outer atmosphere of a gas giant.

  21. lethal_gecko November 30, 2015 at 1:51 pm -      #21

    I think these two ships have different purposes. The Infinity is a juggernaut yes, but its use is best elsewhere.
    [#]
    If it can’t jump behind and ram then it can’t destroy a virtually invulnerable ship. If it was a Forerunner ship then the Fearless wouldn’t stand a chance, but the Infinity will just be like ‘screw it lets leave’ since nothing will work.
    [#]
    Other method is Roland hacks his way through the Fearless and takes control. That’s actually more reasonable than fighting the wedge.
    [#]
    If the Infinity had the same gravity manipulation capacity as Forerunner ships then the wedge wouldn’t be a problem. Forerunner ships don’t get hit in general as they fling any projectile away or are just untargetable.

  22. Ordo11 November 30, 2015 at 4:48 pm -      #22

    Did you miss the part where the fearless can basically destroy it in 2 seconds? Unless those shields can stand up to more than 10 exotons with ease, they go down in less than a second and the infinity gets shattered into a billion tiny pieces.

    Even forerunners would probably have problems with these guys as I have yet to see a feat that gives them better gravity manipulation than these guys. Basically they, the forerunners, have a couple weapons that will hurt and kill Honorverse, but their best is probably the ancillas.

  23. lethal_gecko November 30, 2015 at 6:36 pm -      #23

    You just compared a faction that still uses ballistics to the Forerunners, my god.
    [#]
    And this is a spite match, again. Please stop suggesting these matches as you’re incredibly biased and it’s always in Honorverse’s favor.
    [#]
    And the Forerunners can cause stellar collapse, become untargetable, hack you beyond human comprehension, construct the equivalent of the Death Star 2 every 5 minutes and the list goes on.
    The Mantle’s Approach would kill everyone on board the Fearless with the Composer instantly. There’s no protection other than gene therapy but that breaks the no limit fallacy so we can omit that. Please don’t argue against the Mantle, it’s broken.

  24. Darth Bombad November 30, 2015 at 6:59 pm -      #24

    ^ First: The Composer isn’t a standard weapon.
    Second: The Mantle isn’t even close to broken.
    Third: The Mantle isn’t nearly as big as claimed.

  25. lethal_gecko November 30, 2015 at 7:11 pm -      #25

    What did I claim? And check the Wiki, it really is that big. It even says it in the Halo encyclopedia book. And it’s used by the Mantle multiple times so it’s fair game.

  26. Ordo11 November 30, 2015 at 7:35 pm -      #26

    First I apologized as I suggested this before I realized how biased this was and then hoped it would get lost at the bottom of the suggested matches pile never to see the light of day.

    Second yeah I did. They do use ballistics on the ground, then again in Honorverse ground combat is basically never ever even considered. Second when your missiles are traveling over 10s to 100s of millions of kilometers at around 60-70% the speed of light they are hard to dodge. Third those missiles aren’t actually supposed to hit, ever. They are there to get laser heads in range to blow the stuffing out of enemies at 20,000-30,000 kilometers out. Fourth forerunner ships are hurt by plasma. So this may seem crazy as Honorverse ships are hurt by plasma too, until you realize that it is only when the sidewalls and wedges are down. Unless the forerunners have gravitational feats far in excess of portals and jumping into slipspace inside gas giants, and I mean significantly better, then they will have a hard fight on their hands on a ship to ship basis, and that is what counts.

  27. lethal_gecko December 1, 2015 at 1:35 am -      #27

    Moving planets and stellar collapse. And there’s been no account of a Forerunner vessel being downed by plasma. No Forerunner vessel so far has been downed by conventional means unless its Forerunner tech vs Forerunner tech.
    [#]
    The Dreadnought took on everything the Earth had at once and the Mantle’s Approach did the same with post-war Humanity when they were at their strongest and had the Infinity. Also a torsion field would swat the Fearless away if not splinter it if it gets remotely close.
    [#]
    They use light based weapons and therefore most beam types are light speed.
    Nonetheless, there’s no defense against the Composer.
    [#]
    Anyway we can let the thread die now.

  28. Darth Bombad December 1, 2015 at 2:34 am -      #28

    @gecko
    Play the actual game, its not nearly that big. See that big circle? that’s
    the part where you fly around at the end of the trench run.
    www.halopedia.org/images/0/03/H4-MantlesApproachShip.jpg

  29. lethal_gecko December 1, 2015 at 7:39 am -      #29

    They won’t get the scale exact, remember the biggest thing holding back Halo 4 was the 360’s processing power. The turrets in the circular area were larger than the 400m long ones. If the official books give exact measurements then I’ll go with that, telling me something doesn’t look right to you isn’t going to convince me when an official source says otherwise.

  30. Ordo11 December 1, 2015 at 1:32 pm -      #30

    Except for in the forerunner saga when they are taken out by sanghilli ships, using plasma in their rebellion as it was a plentiful thing to hit the forerunners with.

  31. lethal_gecko December 1, 2015 at 3:23 pm -      #31

    The Sangheilli never rebelled. And I never said it wasn’t possible, of course plasma is ridiculously powerful.

  32. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 1, 2015 at 3:42 pm -      #32

    Ordo I think you have the Sangheili and San ‘Shyuum confused. The San ‘Shyuum fought against the Forerunners and were smacked down because of it. But even in this uprising, the San ‘Shyuum used stockpiled Forerunner weapons.

  33. Ordo11 December 1, 2015 at 5:37 pm -      #33

    Yeah it was the San ‘Shyuum, but didn’t it say they used the natural sources of plasma as their weapons because the forerunners disarmed them?

  34. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 1, 2015 at 6:43 pm -      #34

    IIRC, no. The San ‘Shyuum rebelled because the Forerunners were getting ready to Halo the galaxy so they used older Forerunner weapons before they got Halo’ed. [ www.halopedia.org/Battle_of_Janjur_Qom ] Since the page is vague and my memory doesn’t recall any specifics, plasma might have been used.

  35. Darth Bombad December 1, 2015 at 6:53 pm -      #35

    There’s a theory that Forerunner metal is weak to plasma. Which explains how
    The Covenent could crack open “temples” to steal FR artefacts. Like when
    Johnson blew open those big doors with the Scarab. But that’s pure speculation afaik.

    @gecko
    Its not a mistake though, its quite clear and deliberate. And the games trump everything.

  36. Ordo11 December 1, 2015 at 7:58 pm -      #36

    I’ll check it sometime, I have the book.

  37. lethal_gecko December 2, 2015 at 2:29 am -      #37

    @Darth.
    Once again, if an official source tells me specific measurements and you think it looks a bit off to you due to a legitimate reason I just stated, then I’m still going with the official source made by the same company who made the games.

  38. Darth Bombad December 2, 2015 at 6:33 pm -      #38

    @gecko
    So Star Wars weapons are in the hundreds of gigatons, and travel at just below lightspeed, thanks.

  39. erickyboo December 2, 2015 at 7:13 pm -      #39

    371.4km is indeed the height of the Mantle’s Approach. As stated in the official halo 4 visual guide. Halo isn’t a place where you see a canon hierarchy old Star Wars style.

    No loses are confirmed on forerunner forces during the battle of Janjur ‘Qom. Furthermore, not every metal made by the forerunners is impervious to damage. One can imagine the energy that a Protos Scarab had to use to burst down the door.

  40. lethal_gecko December 2, 2015 at 8:03 pm -      #40

    Thank you. And Darth, that is completely irrelevant and the wrong universe entirely. If you look closely at the UNSC ships and the scale of the beams hitting them, you can tell that it is accurate enough.

  41. Darth Bombad December 3, 2015 at 2:47 am -      #41

    Oh its relevant, the little circle of Halo fanboy’s on this site doubt everything!
    about Star Wars, Star Trek and 40K. Demanding visual proof, while Halo
    gets a free ride. They’re a bunch of 12 year old hypocrites who use a single statement.
    Or outliers to “prove” how awesome Halo is. Despite any other evidence .

    It’s clearly and deliberately shown, a crappy art book written by someone who
    Didn’t work on the games. doesn’t overwrite what we can plainly see.

  42. lethal_gecko December 3, 2015 at 7:02 am -      #42

    Just admit that you’re wrong please and stop arguing. Halo is not as convoluted as Star Wars, Trek or 40k. It’s not an art book its an encyclopedia of sorts, if you have read the Forerunner saga then you’ll know that the Mantle really is that big. Your opinion means nothing compared to an official source, end of, you have no credibility.

  43. Darth Bombad December 3, 2015 at 9:14 am -      #43

    No proof? no quotes? great still a hypocrite i see, i expect nothing less.

    Yes its an encyclopedia… written by someone who didn’t work on the games.
    The people who create the games>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>some guys book.

    “Halo is not as convoluted as Star Wars, Trek or 40k.”
    Way to be a disrespectful little punk, bravo kid. (slow clap) (slow clap) (slow clap)

  44. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 3, 2015 at 11:15 am -      #44

    “ust admit that you’re wrong please and stop arguing.”
    – Bombad won’t. Go read the Hive vs Flood match again. He blatantly ignores source material. Here, Bombad, some WOG for you:

    “Query Answer: Promethean Command Warship, designation Mantle’s Approach.
    Alert! Seed pattern not approved by Council authorities: provisional authorization given by Master Builder. Multiple configurations of Warship design noted in records. Pending Domain contact, model dimensions are provided for analogous hull pattern:
    Height: 25.266 [units]
    Width: 9.43 [units]
    Length: 11.364 [units]
    Preliminary analysis confirms that [UNSC Navy Threat Database] records [ref: Halo 4 Visual Guide, p. 193] reflect last known configuration of Mantle’s Approach in local reference dimensions. ” – 343i [ X ]

    See where 343i blatantly say the visual guide is accurate? Oh, and let’s not forget the scene that takes place in the broadsword… let’s see what 343 and Stephen (the guy who wrote the book) had to say about that

    “The Mantle’s Approach size was initially determined by 343 Industries when we began the review process for the Visual Guide. In fact one of my first tasks on the book before I got a copy to review was to take a couple of images about Mantle’s Approach and verify the numbers provided. […] The Broadsword’s final fight against the AA guns in the main weapon area of the ship was built at the size of the Broadsword, so the fighter and environment were scaled to one another.” – Stephen Loftus [ Same source as above ]

    Bombad will, as he’s done before, ignore this and opt for his own idea of what is and isn’t canon.

  45. lethal_gecko December 3, 2015 at 12:02 pm -      #45

    Thank you. And Bombad, I’m 18 so don’t be so quick to judge. I play 40k more than I do Halo and I have done for the past 9 years, in fact I play the Minotaurs from Forge World which would mean I probably have to know a lot about 40k before committing to such an army. I’m sorry but you’re just a candle in a hurricane and no one gives a shit about your opinion if there’s hard facts to disprove it. Also, do you really think the book would be published without it being reviewed by the game developers to check its accuracy? Do you think people are that stupid? I mean, you seem to think you’re always right so I guess people really are that stupid…
    [#]
    The Mantle’s Approach is as big as it says it is, you saying that it is not means nothing. GG but don’t get salty.
    (Oh, and, calling me disrespectful for saying they’re convoluted, then going on to say how Halo is wrong, well, go figure, you’re a genius after all).

  46. Darth Bombad December 3, 2015 at 6:01 pm -      #46

    Its not my opinion its fact, its what’s actually in the f#%#ing goddamn game!.
    You can see it with your own two eyes. No one else gets away with this, so halo won’t.
    All you’ve got on the other hand is opinion. What your fanboy opinion
    on Halo’s official canon policy is, to which you’ve given no actual evidence for.

    I’ve looked through interviews and statements, and the only people who claim that
    “everything is canon” or “that’s how 343 works now” or ” its all 100% equal”.
    Are more fanboys on forums, and always with no evidence to back up those claims.

    @oh! what an ironic name
    Like i give a crap what you think, considering everyone on here thinks your a joke.

  47. Ordo11 December 3, 2015 at 6:51 pm -      #47

    How do you know what a unit equals in terms of measurement. Also we did have references of what bombed said was canon was canonic based on what YOU have said before Disney took it and redid the cannon. Also you did dispute that fact EVEN THOUGH they gave a quote from the man IN CHARGE OF CANON. Remember that as I do remember many times people did argue that.

  48. Ninja Lowk December 3, 2015 at 7:12 pm -      #48

    Does 343i even have the same canon policy(GAME>all) that bungie did?

  49. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 3, 2015 at 7:40 pm -      #49

    “Like i give a crap what you think, considering everyone on here thinks your a joke.”
    – Good thing I didn’t post what I think and only posted straight up quotes (and sources.)
    ==
    “How do you know what a unit equals in terms of measurement.”
    – No idea. I only posted the full quote for… reasons. The part that really matters is the last sentence or so, “Preliminary analysis confirms that [UNSC Navy Threat Database] records [ref: Halo 4 Visual Guide, p. 193] reflect last known configuration of Mantle’s Approach in local reference dimensions”, that straight up says the visual guide is correct in that the height of Mantle’s Approach is 371.4 km.
    ==
    “Does 343i even have the same canon policy(GAME>all) that bungie did?”
    – I’d hazard a guess and say probably not. They intended for the Mantle’s Approach to have this height, the game and its scaling come second to that. This is analogous to Forward Unto Dawn’s scaling in Halo 4 (I linked images to its scale in the Hive vs Flood match somewhere), if the game overrides other canon than Forward Unto Dawn is a frigate that is larger than Infinity.

  50. Darth Bombad December 4, 2015 at 12:25 am -      #50

    “They intended for the Mantle’s Approach to have this height,”

    No… no they didn’t, they have never Ever! had a problem conveying size.
    Not with High Charity or the super carrier or the Halo’s themselves. The Mantle in Halo 4
    is quite clear and very consistent, there’s no scaling issue its exactly how they wanted.

    Their talented enough to know what they were doing, if they wanted it huge!.
    They wouldn’t have repeatedly put ships next to it (on all sides) to give it a clear scale.
    To say otherwise is not only a bull$#it excuse, but a pretty big insult to 343i.

    “I’d hazard a guess and say probably not.”

    Exactly no proof, cause none exists, not even a hint. And everything else comes
    secondary to the games, if you don’t get that then were done here… just done.

  51. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 4, 2015 at 12:30 am -      #51

    “No… no they didn’t, they have never Ever! had a problem conveying size.”
    – I gave you word of god confirmation on the size, Bombad, your opinions on the matter are null and void.

    “The Mantle in Halo 4 is quite clear and very consistent, there’s no scaling issue its exactly how they wanted.”
    – Except they scaled it down to size with the Broadsword in the exact same way they scaled Forward Unto Dawn up. The Mantel’s size is whatever they say it is, and they say its 371 km.

    “And everything else comes
    secondary to the games, if you don’t get that then were done here… just done.”
    – Everything comes secondary to the creators of the god damn game, Bombad. We are done here because, on this subject, you are just plain wrong.
    ==
    Everybody except the obtuse among us excepts the size of the Mantel, have fun arguing using your own variation on canon, bombad.

  52. Darth Bombad December 4, 2015 at 12:56 am -      #52

    “Everything comes secondary to the creators of the god damn game.”

    E-f$%#ing-xactly!, and they made it that size, none of your quotes come from
    the creators of the games or even a 343i employee, let alone word of god.

    That forum you linked was just a bunch of tween fanboys circle jerking eachother.
    Some anonymous intern gave you a pat on the head and said “sure whatever”.
    And That! somehow overrides the actual games in a video game series.

  53. lethal_gecko December 4, 2015 at 2:14 am -      #53

    Alright then, I’ll end it here. Darth Bombad: Tell me exactly how big the Mantle’s Approach is, that’s if it isn’t by official measurements. This is the one question you can’t answer.
    If you can’t answer it then for all intents and purposes you are wrong and the official height is true because you have no stats and only hard core official stats are the truth as far as credibility is concerned.
    Caught you out there didn’t I? You can’t get around this one. Oh, and telling me only that its not as big as it says it is, is not a legitimate answer, that’s just an opinion.

  54. lethal_gecko December 4, 2015 at 2:25 am -      #54

    And another thing, if Frank O’Connor told you the Mantle is 371km tall you still wouldn’t believe him which means you live in your own deluded world and can not be wrong. Supremacy Complex and all…

  55. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 4, 2015 at 12:10 pm -      #55

    “E-f$%#ing-xactly!, and they made it that size, none of your quotes come from
    the creators of the games or even a 343i employee, let alone word of god.”
    – Holy hell. I figured it out. Bombad is literally a retard. Bombad, did you go to that page and look up the quote? If you did you would have seen that it was posted by 343i. And then Stephen, the guy who wrote the fuckin’ book, added to it too. Clearly quotes weren’t good enough for you so I’ll take screen caps this time just to make you life easier.

    [ i.imgur.com/rjjX7Yw.png ]
    There you have it, Bombad, directly from 343i themselves, word of god that comes before EVERYTHING else and it backs up the visual guide which claims its 371 km tall.

    [ i.imgur.com/yiRBSLb.png ]
    Highlighted that part where they say the visual guide is correct, just for you my mentally challenged friend.

    [ i.imgur.com/ckva3m2.png ]
    And here, Bombad, is a guy who worked with 343i saying the same exact thing.
    ==
    Hopefully this gets through your thick skull now. The Mantle’s Approach is 371 km tall, case closed, you lose.

  56. lethal_gecko December 4, 2015 at 12:22 pm -      #56

    #Roasted

  57. Darth Bombad December 4, 2015 at 2:06 pm -      #57

    “if Frank O’Connor told you the Mantle is 371km tall you still wouldn’t believe him”

    Are you genuinely retarted, of course i’d believe him! that’s the only thing i would believe.
    That’s what i’ve been asking you pleebs for (which you can’t provide) someone who
    works for the company who worked on the game.

    @oh! what a moron
    Yep you definitively retarted, Stephen Lotus doesn’t work for 343i, he’s a fan
    who does scaling. You do realise that right?.

    And i already responded to the forum, its anonymous doesn’t say what a “unit” is.
    And is actually rather weird and unclear, referenceing other configurations
    that exist in records, records that may wrong or corrupted.

    So lets review then i’m done, i have the actual F$%#ing game of a video game series.
    Which show something that’s clear and obvious, that its about a mile tall.
    You have two books written by people who don’t work for 343i, and an
    anonymous reply on a fan forum, all of which claim something that’s obviously falsee.

    #Fanboys

  58. lethal_gecko December 4, 2015 at 2:41 pm -      #58

    A mile tall? Those particle cannons are over 400m and those frigates in the near distance are 500m+. Compare it to Ivanhoff station, compare it to the Composer which is 200m tall or so.

    www.google.co.uk/search?q=mantle%27s+approach&biw=1680&bih=939&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiwnuHJ9cLJAhWKXhQKHT8yCN4Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=Y6bOrMYYib7jrM%3A
    [#]
    This shows the Mantle leaving Requiem, a planet sized construct. Take its curvature into account. If it was 1 mile tall then the curvature wouldn’t exist at all. The Infinity would be bigger than the Mantle if this was the case. You CAN not deny it when it is clearly compared to a planet sized object, this means the Mantle must be in the hundreds of kilometers at least. It is right there in front of you, it’s part of Halo 4 the game, denying it would make you a hypocrite. That one picture from Halo 4 is 100% proof that you’re wrong. And don’t say ‘Requiem is just small’ because even if Requiem was Earth sized that would still look right.

    www.google.co.uk/search?q=mantle%27s+approach&biw=1680&bih=939&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiwnuHJ9cLJAhWKXhQKHT8yCN4Q_AUIBigB#imgdii=f7ifA2upP9i1yM%3A%3Bf7ifA2upP9i1yM%3A%3B79uEC8TqyXVnTM%3A&imgrc=f7ifA2upP9i1yM%3A
    [#]
    The frigates scaled to the first ring would put it at the size stated.

    www.google.co.uk/search?q=mantle%27s+approach&biw=1680&bih=939&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiwnuHJ9cLJAhWKXhQKHT8yCN4Q_AUIBigB#imgdii=nxG4Ids6fRmAEM%3A%3BnxG4Ids6fRmAEM%3A%3BIakxix2OGyYXiM%3A&imgrc=nxG4Ids6fRmAEM%3A
    [#]
    And finally read this: halo.wikia.com/wiki/Mantle's_Approach
    The Mantle is large enough to have an atmosphere surrounding it and it states it to be the largest ship in Halo, meaning it surpasses everything in size. To be massive enough to have an atmosphere, you must be at least planetoid size. Everything points towards it being 371km tall give or take, one person saying it isn’t is just like it sounds like, meaningless.
    #And I’m a 40k fanboy before Halo. The only reason I’m arguing with you is because you are categorically wrong and can’t deny it.

  59. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 4, 2015 at 3:11 pm -      #59

    “So lets review then i’m done”
    – Let’s review what we have: I have word of god and… oh, no, I win. That’s it. Word Of God, we both agree, comes before anything else and, 343i themselves, have said how big the ship is, as has someone who works with them. You’re a retard to continue to argue this, Bombad.

    “And i already responded to the forum, its anonymous doesn’t say what a “unit” is.
    And is actually rather weird and unclear, referenceing other configurations”
    – Hahaha, even with me highlighting the part where 343i blatantly says that the Halo 4 visual guide is correct you still missed it somehow? Fuckin’ hell. Other configurations means the ship can change, not that big of a deal because it flat out says this configuration is 371 km tall. I’m out of here.
    ==
    Its stupid to continue this, Lethal_Gecko, he accepts that word of god comes before the games and then when I give him word of god that refutes his claim he turns around and says the game is right and the word of the creator of the game is wrong. That’s the caliber of person you are arguing against.

  60. Darth Bombad December 4, 2015 at 3:36 pm -      #60

    @gecko
    The scale (a rough estimate) comes from comparing the size of the lich’s, which we know
    the size of, giving a far clearer sense of scale than any of your examples.
    All of which are glorified fanfiction, by non-employees of 343i, including a frigging wiki!.

    @Oh what a moron
    (Sigh) I didn’t miss it i’ve responded repeatedly, an anonymous intern on 343’s
    fan forum gave you a vague answer. That’s in no way shape or form “word of god”.

    If 343i released a statement (word of god) that Master Chief is a hundred feet tall.
    And is stronger and faster than Superman (we just can’t show it in game).

    Oh what a moron would believe it. That’s the caliber of person we’re dealing with.

  61. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 4, 2015 at 3:46 pm -      #61

    “That’s in no way shape or form “word of god”.”
    – And now he’s denying the fact that 343i commented on it is word of god. Holy shit. Don’t forget your helmet when you leave for daycare, Bombad.

  62. lethal_gecko December 4, 2015 at 4:07 pm -      #62

    My god.
    Bombad LOOK at the bloody picture. It is a cutscene from Halo 4 which clearly shows the Mantle leaving Requiem which is at minimum Earth sized. At that scale, I repeat, at that scale: The Mantle must be in the hundreds of kilometers to show the horizon of Requiem, it HAS to be. This is evidence in Halo 4 which you state is the only real example and cutscenes are going to be more accurate than gameplay because they show things in more detail and tell the story. YOU can not argue what is shown, you just can’t it’s right there in front of you. The Mantle IS hundreds of kilometers tall at MINIMUM it is 100% proof that it is. Another thing, how long does the trench run last for? In a space fairing jet which compared to modern jets must be traveling at kilometers a SECOND. How long does the mission last until you get to the open? Maybe 5-8 minutes of flying straight forward! If it was one kilometer a second then at minimum Chief was flying dead ahead for 300 kilometers. One kilometer every 2 seconds means 150km, hell our space rockets can do that. Now I don’t have any real stats to speak of, but it’s just common sense! A modern jet (looking at the Russian jet in the news) can cross 2km in 7 seconds (by new accounts), now the Broadsword is flying through space. Just think how fast that is? The faster it is the bigger the Mantle gets and what’s more? Chief flew from the rear of the Mantle to the front meaning that at minimum he flew 100km or so as per its stated length.

    [#]
    Anyway, me and Oh are out, we’ve won. It’s pointless to argue against such insolence. I won’t be commenting again.

  63. Darth Bombad December 4, 2015 at 4:57 pm -      #63

    @gecko

    (Facepal) (Facepalm) (Facepalm)! Oh my f%#$ing god i wanna xcream!!!.
    You have one picture that has nothing to show scale except the “curvature of the planet”
    I have a shot of Lich’s which we Know the size of! on all sides at all heights.
    Showing its not a perspective issue, making for the perfect source to scale from.
    They couldn’t possibly make it any clearer!, they gave the perfect set up.

    “And now he’s denying the fact that 343i commented on it is word of god. Holy shit. “
    Are you brain damaged or just slow? i’ve denied that several times now! i mean jesus!.
    Hate to brake it to you but Frank O’Connor and Kiki Wolfkill didn’t have a meeting
    to discuss and reply to your little post, an anonymous intern (until proven otherwise) did.

    “Don’t forget your helmet when you leave for daycare, Bombad.”
    Means alot coming from the biggest tard since kittenlord, where one vague statement
    from a vague source can override all truth and logic.

  64. LadyRamkin December 4, 2015 at 5:06 pm -      #64

    Wait…. im confused…. are you trying to use that there are planets in the shot….. to say that the object is bigger than a planet????

    I barely skimmed this by the way, i have no idea if that is what you are trying to say.

    Because if it is….
    c2.staticflickr.com/2/1362/5116588516_e5c154dafb_b.jpg

  65. Secrecy27 December 4, 2015 at 5:40 pm -      #65

    Because if it is….
    c2.staticflickr.com/2/1362/5116588516_e5c154dafb_b.jpg


    IT IS THE FINGER OF GOD!

  66. Karen Starr December 4, 2015 at 8:13 pm -      #66

    Fuck I hope Kiki Wolfkill wasn’t made up, because taht name is straight up awesome.

  67. Super Combine December 4, 2015 at 8:24 pm -      #67

    ^ She’s real, she’s been part of 343i since it was formed.
    youtu.be/PGn4YXXZyDo?t=66

  68. Karen Starr December 4, 2015 at 8:31 pm -      #68

    Nice and she’s cute also.

  69. Darth Bombad December 4, 2015 at 10:11 pm -      #69

    “Wait…. im confused…. are you trying to use that there are planets in the shot….. to say that the object is bigger than a planet????”

    He’s saying that in one single shot you can see the “curvature of the planet”.
    Therefore the camera must be pulled out to some insane degree making
    the mantle country sized. Despite the fact that just seconds before and seconds
    after (and every depiction of the mantle btw) we see swarms of ships which we
    know the size of, giving us a perfect and clear sense of scale.

    A scale no where near that which two art books (written by non 343 employees) claims.
    He also has an anonymous staff member of 343’s website giving a vague comment
    about the mantle being 2000 units talll. Without explaining how big one “unit” actually is.

    This they claim is “word of god” and can override anything, even the games themselves.

    Super Combine you know more about Halo than anyone, do you have any hard evidence
    of what they’re claiming? a book quote that even implies its moon size.

  70. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 4, 2015 at 10:37 pm -      #70

    “He also has an anonymous staff member of 343’s website giving a vague comment
    about the mantle being 2000 units talll. Without explaining how big one “unit” actually is.”
    – Oh, god, shouldn’t have come back to read this. How many times do you need me to post the same thing over and over, Bombad? (at least 3 times here, two times with screen caps, and once with just the quote and the link, so 6 times, apparently.)

    “Preliminary analysis confirms that [UNSC Navy Threat Database] records [ref: Halo 4 Visual Guide, p. 193] reflect last known configuration of Mantle’s Approach in local reference dimensions”

    I’ll bold the important parts so as to reduce strain on your brain.

    Preliminary analysis confirms that [UNSC Navy Threat Database] records [ref: Halo 4 Visual Guide, p. 193] reflect last known configuration of Mantle’s Approach in local reference dimensions”

    Now I’ll shorten it down to just those important parts.

    “Preliminary analysis confirms that Halo 4 Visual Guide, p. 193 reflect last known configuration of Mantle’s Approach”

    Now I’ll leave it to you to figure out what it means.
    [ HINT: It means that the visual guide book is correct when it says the Mantle’s Approach is 371 km tall. ]

  71. erickyboo December 5, 2015 at 2:20 am -      #71

    Oh my. You have no idea on canon and so much of what you said is false.
    And I’m pretty sure I know the most about halo here actually.

    Jeremey Patenaude wrote the guide… He’s part of the narrative team at 343… There are also weekly lore updates called canon fodder, written by Grim brother one of 343. Stephen Loftus did indeed work on the guide too. He was consulted for his expertise. I’ve discussed with him and some screenshots and things in it were sort of references to him. Nice detail.

    Canonically also, Ntho and Usze were at the battle of the citadel even though in halo 3 campaign they were only in coop. As per hunters in the dark.

  72. Darth Bombad December 5, 2015 at 2:51 am -      #72

    “And I’m pretty sure I know the most about halo here actually.”

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha… HE HE HE HE… AH Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!! Oh! oh god you kill me.
    Seriously though i doubt you’ve even played a single game of Halo in your life.

    And still no proof on the canon policy i see, of course not all you’ve got
    is your stupid little opinion and absolutely nothing to back it up with.
    Why? why would i expect anything else?, (sigh) i’m done babysiting the kids.

  73. Ninja Lowk December 5, 2015 at 3:57 am -      #73

    “Oh! oh god you kill me.
    Seriously though i doubt you’ve even played a single game of Halo in your life.”

    But what he said does seem to actually checks out
    Jeremy does Apparently work for 343
    comicsbulletin.com/jeremy-patenaude-writing-halo-way/
    And he is the author
    books.google.com/books/about/Halo_4.html?id=6tZWmAEACAAJ
    And it seems that that Stephen guys was actually brought in as a consultant by 343 to help them with numbers
    www.forwarduntodawn.com/another-essential-interview/

  74. Neon Lord December 5, 2015 at 7:04 am -      #74

    I do believe Erickyboo and The Man With the Answers are the resident Halo gurus on BankGambling.

  75. LadyRamkin December 5, 2015 at 7:34 am -      #75

    We should make a list of guru’s.

    If specific information is needed then we know who to ask.

    Maybe on the topia though

  76. Darth Bombad December 5, 2015 at 10:06 am -      #76

    Eh! i was taking my frustration for oh! what a moron out on him, sorry bro. :)

  77. Super Combine December 5, 2015 at 10:59 am -      #77

    Here’s a screenshot of the actual page from the book that lists it’s dimensions, if that’s what was needed.

    img12.imageshack.us/img12/8387/52lr.jpg

    As everyone is off topic anyway, I’ll throw in my 2 cents and say I don’t really like how the art book implies the most Forerunner ships are an OOM bigger than they were described in previous lore, with the Mantle being not all that big by their standards yet still towering over the Fortress class which iirc, is the biggest Forerunner warship in Bears novels.

    Sure, the Builder or Miner castes may have used some fuckoff huge ships/stations for planet/star mining/forming (like X50), but why the hell would many Forerunner ships be dwarf planet sized? Well whatever, I’m probably looking to much into a single line that might just be ignored later anyway.

  78. lethal_gecko December 5, 2015 at 11:58 am -      #78

    This is for everyone: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWwLZbRcif8
    Watch it and make your own assumptions, but the distance Chief travels has to be taken into account. I’m not going to argue my point any further.

  79. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 5, 2015 at 12:23 pm -      #79

    Found a better video [ www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI43bN3iHVs ]

    MC flies in a straight line from 1:46 to 5:00. I don’t know how fast the Broadsword is, so I’ll just use modern fighter jets (specifically the F-22 raptor), that should suffice for a low-ball answer, yes? Without afterburns a F-22 can go up to Mach 1.82 (2247.336 km/h) so 37.4 km/minute.
    MC was flying in a straight line (as soon as he came to the circle where Infinity shoots the hole I stopped the clock) for 4 minutes.
    37.4*4= 149.6 km

    Lethal_Gecko said he went from front to back, I believe, which makes this little exercise in futility off by a matter of 6.9 km.

  80. lethal_gecko December 5, 2015 at 1:09 pm -      #80

    (Rear to front as seen in the cut-scene)
    [#]
    Calcs seem fine. It doesn’t really matter which side he goes from, the fact is he traveled over 100km in any direction therefore backing up the fact the Mantle is colossal. It’s safe to assume that the Broadsword was going faster, backed up by the fact he caught up to the Mantle in seconds, the fact technology is 500 years more advanced and its designed to fly through space where distances are greater.
    [#]
    Also Bombad’s argument is that the Mantle is smaller than 371km based on its comparison to a Lich (100m or so) of which we do not know the distance between it and the Mantle therefore impossible to judge whilst in space. It can not be directly compared unless the Lich landed on or came into direct contact with the Mantle which it does not.

  81. Friendlysociopath December 5, 2015 at 1:38 pm -      #81

    So let me get this straight- the argument is the Mantle is a certain height because an employee and lore states it is that height?
    And the opposing view is that it doesn’t appear that large in the game?

    That’s pretty cut and dry, games are limited- word of god and codex is not. Games are limited by available memory, budget, time, and lord knows many other things.
    A codex entry is limited by nothing but canon- that’s all the thing is.
    An employee stating something is limited only by position; any higher-up can counter something a lower-tier said.

    We should make a list of guru’s.

    Might cause a bit of an elitist feel, “I’m a Guru, accept what I said”. But in general a list of who knows what series wouldn’t be a bad idea.

    the fact is he traveled over 100km in any direction therefore backing up the fact the Mantle is colossal

    Fun fact, 100km is technically how far UP you have to go to be considered flying in space.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line

  82. Aelfinn December 5, 2015 at 4:22 pm -      #82

    You know, I might have to back up Darth Bombad here, despite his slight attitude problem. He has a point with the whole “official stat” vs “in-canon” stat problem. As he mentioned above, sometimes stuff like this goes wrong, especially if it really isn’t from “Word of God”.
    =
    For example, let’s look at Star Wars. For those not in the loop, a book came out called Incredible Cross-Sections that said the turbolasers had a yield of “200 gigatons”. Now, this statement is probably the most controversial regarding Star Wars vs across the entire Internet. 200 gigatons is enough to destroy an entire country. There are plenty of examples both inside the EU and out where this kind of strength simply isn’t consistent with what we see on-screen or on-page. Of course, some books mentioned turbolasers in the “gigatons”, but others had turbolasers at “maximum power” basically starting forest fires.

    That’s not the end of the story, though. Back when the old EU was still canon, someone asked Leland Chee, the man in charge of Star Wars canon hierarchy, about whether the ICS stats were accurate or not. He responded that the ICS “would still be the first place I’d look to determine weapon strength” or something along those lines. This is in spite of the huge amounts of inconsistencies we see and all that good stuff. Now, this is a man who I doubt George Lucas even knows effectively telling us to ignore canon events in favor of this one book. As you can imagine, there was a lot of strife.
    =
    Or another example: take the recent Spiderman debate. Spiderman’s official page on Marvel’s website says his stats are far below what we are actually capable of seeing on-page. Page after page directly contradict the official Marvel statements on the canon. But let’s be real. Are we going to throw those feats out because a single Website tells us he should be far weaker and slower? Probably not.
    =
    My point is this: just because it’s “official” doesn’t mean it’s well-informed. Most of these facts are just absolute garbage that no normal person would care about, so of course the real company doesn’t care about them, and just looks to fill up empty space. Should we disregard feats simply because some intern or someone else not even on the radar of the original writers needed to give a number somewhere? I personally don’t think so.

  83. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable December 5, 2015 at 4:46 pm -      #83

    But this instance isn’t like those. In this instance we have one showing of the Mantle’s Approach being so big and another source, 2 actually with a showing from the same game where its scale isn’t what 343i claims, saying its actually bigger than that.

    It would be like the 200 gigaton turbolaser debacle, but wherein only 1 instance in all the canon relating to its power output would contradict the book. Which should be ignored then, the book+Word of god+other sources in that same canon or that single seemingly erroneous instance?

  84. lethal_gecko December 5, 2015 at 5:10 pm -      #84

    Perhaps, but you can’t deny that the Mantle is in the hundreds of kilometers even if it isn’t exactly 371km because of the trench run and it leaving Requiem in the cutscene in Halo 4. The argument against stats and canon inaccuracies is fine and all but the original argument was against the size of the Mantle which we’ve proven to be in the hundreds of kilometers even if it isn’t exactly as stated canonically.
    [#]
    His argument of the Lich comparing to the Mantle to guess its size is identical to that of comparing Requiem to the Mantle but he refuses to understand that if one’s method of size estimation is correct they both must be because they’re the same method using images that are both as valid as each other, however the difference between the shots with Lichs and the shot with Requiem is that the Lichs are at an unknown distance to the Mantle and so the size can’t be ascertained, however the Mantle can be seen passing directly through Requiem thus meaning they must be almost touching by a few kilometers. Once again, the planet’s horizon would not be visible otherwise.

    [#]

    “He’s saying that in one single shot you can see the “curvature of the planet”.
    Therefore the camera must be pulled out to some insane degree making
    the mantle country sized. Despite the fact that just seconds before and seconds
    after (and every depiction of the mantle btw) we see swarms of ships which we
    know the size of, giving us a perfect and clear sense of scale.”
    What he doesn’t see is that the Mantle is almost in contact with the planet whilst passing through the gap. They are essentially side-by-side and is the clearest example of scale. Once again the Lichs flying beside the Mantle could be 1000km or 10km away we just don’t know, which means we have to look at other things for scale.

    [#]
    www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=939&q=mantle%27s+approach+size+comparison&oq=mantle%27s+approach+&gs_l=img.1.1.0l6j0i30l2j0i5i30l2.61.5813.0.8671.11.3.0.8.0.0.244.397.0j1j1.2.0#imgrc=Y6bOrMYYib7jrM%3A
    [#]

    halo.wikia.com/wiki/Magnetic_Accelerator_Cannon
    [#]
    www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=939&q=mantle%27s+approach+size+comparison&oq=mantle%27s+approach+&gs_l=img.1.1.0l6j0i30l2j0i5i30l2.61.5813.0.8671.11.3.0.8.0.0.244.397.0j1j1.2.0….0…1ac.1.64.img..10.1.244._4mc_lpk1KI#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=mantle%27s+approach+&imgrc=wQnO3aizDqaowM%3A

    In addition, look at the blast size of 50+ gigatons. That is sufficient to erase cities and that blast is tiny.

  85. Ninja Lowk December 5, 2015 at 6:38 pm -      #85

    “My point is this: just because it’s “official” doesn’t mean it’s well-informed. Most of these facts are just absolute garbage that no normal person would care about, so of course the real company doesn’t care about them, and just looks to fill up empty space. Should we disregard feats simply because some intern or someone else not even on the radar of the original writers needed to give a number somewhere? I personally don’t think so.”

    Difference between the sider-man thing and this is the spider-man thing is outdated and not consistently kept up to date with research. The first stat was based off of a canon feat so at one point it was correct, at the time. And one of the people in charge acknowlede as such.
    Here we’re dealing with some thing similar. They did research it and had consultants to help figure out numbers like they did like you do. Except this is a bit more recent, having been written for the game the object was in. They have actually come out and stated it was correct; granted in a manner they could pull a retcon. And the person in charge of writing fluff and editing it is the author of the book in question.

  86. Darth Bombad December 5, 2015 at 7:53 pm -      #86

    @Aelfinn #82
    Thank you, once again you’ve got my point across better than my temper would allow.
    That’s all i was saying, lots of other franchises go through this, but Halo
    is allowed to just get away with it. Only its worse, instead of an inconsistent weapon calc.
    Which can be debated, you can see with your own eyes that its plainly not true.

    And gecko nice try but the Lich’s are on all sides and actively fly by showing that
    its not a perspective issue. Its actually the perfect scenario to scale from.

    It would be different if it were a novel but its not, it’s a couple of art books
    vs the actual games in a video game series. It would also be different if it were
    a small discrepancy but its not, its like claiming a Star Destroyer is more than
    twice the size of the Death Star, Just ignore all evidence to the contrary.

    The primary canon of a series vs an obviously false statement.

    P.S. I apologise to Ordo for derailing his thread.

  87. Ninja Lowk December 5, 2015 at 8:31 pm -      #87

    “The primary canon of a series vs an obviously false statement.”

    Was it mentioned somewhere 343 has this canon policy where the games are the only primary thing?
    I mean the book was done by one of the writers in charge of the site where they actually go over various bits of halo lore.

  88. Ordo11 December 5, 2015 at 9:30 pm -      #88

    I don’t mind you derailing it as this thread probably shouldn’t exist as it is a horribly balanced fight and I screwed up. At least it is doing something better than it otherwise would have.

  89. Aelfinn December 5, 2015 at 10:28 pm -      #89

    I hadn’t exactly looked at the evidence in question, I was more taking a stance on the whole nature of the debate, rather than this specific debate itself.
    =
    In a similar vein, there are a couple extreme examples out there that I can remember:

    Warhammer 40K used ship-based weapons that released “tetrajoules”, AKA they were strong enough to throw apples at the enemy.

    Covenant ships were once destroyed by lasers in the “kilowatt” range, AKA they could get destroyed by a hundred lightbulbs.

    The PEPS gun in Deus Ex could put out something like “5 * 10^67” Joules, AKA enough to destroy 1/100 of the entire universe.

  90. Darth Bombad December 5, 2015 at 10:55 pm -      #90

    @Lowk
    “Was it mentioned somewhere 343 has this canon policy where the games are the only primary thing?”
    I’ve never found evidence either way, despite what Halo fans like to claim.

    For the record this part of the scene i’m talking about.
    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/4/4f/Mantle%27s_Approach.gif/revision/latest?cb=20151206033355

    You can even see the Cryptum which is 41 meters in diameter, if their claims are true.
    Then according to this scene it would have to be approaching 100 km’s itself!.

    So what’s the canon then? that those big doors that open to except it don’t really exist?.
    That it flew through much smaller doors on the surface of this planatoid sized ship?.
    So ignore what actually happened in the scene and just make something else up.
    Because a book (The Art of Halo 4) says so?, isn’t that just absolutely figging insane!?!.

  91. lethal_gecko December 6, 2015 at 7:56 am -      #91

    You’ve ignored the trench run entirely and the calculations we made. You can’t deny the distance the Chief traveled in a straight line. One piece of solid evidence VS one piece of equally solid evidence that says otherwise from the same game, well, what do you do? Your evidence may well be legit but so is ours to prove otherwise so where do you draw the line? Your evidence is more credible than ours? No, it’s exactly the same if anything. But our evidence has you flying through the inner workings of the ship for hundreds of kilometers that you just can’t deny, sure the exact measurement may not be 371km tall but it sure as hell is in the hundreds of kilometers, i mean it’s right there in Halo 4, you play it and experience it so you can’t deny its scale. The trench run backs up the Mantle leaving Requiem scene and we STILL don’t know the distances that the Lichs were to the Mantle. Until you can prove the distance they were at you CAN’T prove how big the Mantle is. So when you tell me the distances between the ships then I’ll believe you. We can give exact figures but you can’t, that’s the difference between our evidence and yours.

  92. Darth Bombad December 6, 2015 at 8:21 am -      #92

    He was going insanely slow during the trench run, you can see it by how fast the
    environment is whiping past you. oh! whatever’s “calc” was based on nothing.
    Which he pulled out of his @ss! (as usual) given how you go through the trench
    at a crawl (comparatively) i’d say my initial estimate is accurate, 1600 to 2000m.

    If he was going anywhere near top speed like you suggest then everything
    would appear as a blur and he’d probably crash, Spartan reflexes only go so far.

  93. lethal_gecko December 6, 2015 at 9:58 am -      #93

    You can’t go that slow in a jet…. And you just assumed that the scale is what you think it is. You don’t know exactly how big things are, the jet is 20m long/wide but those tiny AA guns are as big as the jet (try crashing into one). And no those calcs are legitimate. There’s no evidence of him going slow as you can’t directly compare it. If there was a modern car there or a tree then yeah you could but you don’t know. His top speed is when he boosts, otherwise that would defeat the point of a boost function. Once again, a jet, especially a future jet, can’t go that slow, it’s not a helicopter because it’s actually an atmospheric craft so it would fall out of the sky if it could go that slow. You just pulled that slow statement out of YOUR @ss. If you look at the environment outside your car window then you’ll see that things further away move slower than those close and the same applies in the trench run. For all we know it could be 1km wide at some parts to 100m wide in others as it varies. Back up your statement with figures and what not then I’ll believe that it’s going slow. Once again its boost function is its top speed as far as we know so compare the top speed to its normal speed. It has to be going at least as fast as a modern fighter jet, it’s illogical otherwise.
    [#]
    Even if it was going at half the speed of a fighter jet, it still covers 75km which proves your 1mile statement is false. Halve it again to 1/4 that of a jet, still disproves your 1mile figure, then again and again and it’s STILL faster and therefore the Mantle is bigger than your statement. A CAR can cover more distance than 1mile in 4 minutes and this is comparing it to a future fighter jet???? The hell are you on??
    [#]
    Another thing is that the Mantle is said to be one of the largest but not THE largest Forerunner ship. It’s said to be bigger than Fortress class vessels (read the Forerunner saga but I can’t get a digital copy for statements) and they are said to be up to 100km long with no visual evidence therefore it must be assumed to be true as no evidence can contradict it. If you can’t find it, just have a bit more faith in Wikipedia, it’s pretty much correct from what I’ve seen. Sure there are inconsistencies in Halo 4, it doesn’t change the fact that EVERYTHING says that the Mantle is colossal. 343i wouldn’t let things be published if they were wrong.
    [#]
    www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=939&q=halo+4+trench+run&oq=halo+4+trench&gs_l=img.1.0.0i24.824.2943.0.3839.13.10.0.3.3.0.114.764.8j1.9.0….0…1ac.1.64.img..1.12.767.W1TGoZevrSs#imgdii=7eskmFJlZ_L95M%3A%3B7eskmFJlZ_L95M%3A%3Bep3QHsW3l475uM%3A&imgrc=7eskmFJlZ_L95M%3A
    [#]
    Where did 1600-2000 meters come from?? No calculations what so ever while we can provide reasonable calculations to contradict you. You’d need to know the speed before you could get 1600-2000 meters. www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html
    If he covered 1600 meters in 4 or so minutes then he was going at 24kmh ._. Oh my god i’m actually crying in laughter! You actually think a future jet was going at 24 kilometers an HOUR!! I RUN faster than that!!! This proves that you made no calculations at all. Usain Bolt would beat the Chief to the Didact at that rate and the Chief both runs faster than Usain and is-in-a-jet. O_o
    [#]
    I’m starting to think you’re just butt-hurt that the Mantle is bigger than the Death Star…

  94. lethal_gecko December 6, 2015 at 10:08 am -      #94

    If you actually think that the Broadsword was going slower than a man can run, then you lose absolutely ALL credibility to your argument. That’s on the verge of insanity.

  95. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 6, 2015 at 12:19 pm -      #95

    @Bombad Don’t know if it works for other people, but I can’t see your link.

  96. lethal_gecko December 6, 2015 at 12:24 pm -      #96

    I can’t.

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