Orlok the Eternal Vs Warden Eternal

Orlok the Eternal Vs Warden Eternal

Suggested by Rookie

Orlok the Eternal (Universe At War) will go up against Warden Eternal (Halo).

Orlok, Commander of the Hierarchy battalions, general of the galactic fleet, annihilator of a thousand worlds will go up against Warden Eternal, Forerunner Promethean AI and the keeper of the Domain and its secrets.

Battle of two eternals begins!

Who will survive?

 

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161 Comments on "Orlok the Eternal Vs Warden Eternal"

  1. pimpmage November 21, 2015 at 4:32 pm -      #101

    “Well, i think i might have cancer”

    Cancer from reading tmwta’s posts? Or actually irl cancer? The former would be a dank meme, the latter is disheartening.

  2. LadyRamkin November 21, 2015 at 4:36 pm -      #102

    The latter. I have an examination in a couple weeks.

    Until then its only potentially cancer.

  3. erickyboo November 21, 2015 at 5:26 pm -      #103

    I don’t think I want to be a part of this conversation… I still haven’t made up a match.

  4. Ninja Lowk November 21, 2015 at 6:32 pm -      #104

    “Having halo five run at 10 fps for you.”

    10 fps is choppy as fuck.
    This is 10 fps
    youtu.be/i343iNurvo8
    That would be downgrading it below the other Halos.

    Framerate is one of those things that you first notice subconsciously Then you start to really notice normally how choppy it feels next to something else.
    Especially if you recently played a game or seen something with a high framerate. Which given the push for prettier smoother everything, is likely.
    ===
    “Adding split screen would have made almost noticeable changes to this game.”

    Unfortunately you live in a world where gamers expect pretty smooth gameplay just as much as people who want stuff splitscreen or people who want something to be the highest of defs. They would notice and they would and have complained.
    This is why I’d hate being the boss. Sometimes you can’t please everybody.

  5. Ninja Lowk November 21, 2015 at 6:45 pm -      #105

    “And Lowk, he’s mad too? ”

    He very well could be”

    Only thing that’s remotely phased me so far was one of pimps post. And I was going through some irl troubles at the time.

  6. Darth Bombad November 21, 2015 at 6:46 pm -      #106

    @LadyRamkin
    Sad to hear that. :( But i’m sure you’ll be fine, just channel the Admin. Good luck!. :)

  7. LadyRamkin November 21, 2015 at 6:51 pm -      #107

    “10 fps is choppy as fuck.”
    “That would be downgrading it below the other Halos.”

    Thats kinda my point.
    Removing split screen for some people is like releaseing the game with shitty frame rate, or shitty AI for others.

    Its a total deal breaker.
    – – –
    “Good luck!. :)”

    Thanks

  8. Ninja Lowk November 21, 2015 at 7:06 pm -      #108

    “Removing split screen for some people is like releaseing the game with shitty frame rate, or shitty AI for others”

    Releasing it without SplitS is like releasing a playable game without a certain feature.
    A shitty frame rate like that would be like releasing Lag: the videogame and shouldn’t be considered a next gen game. One is broken game, the other is just missing a cool addition that people liked. One ruins the game for some, the other ruins it for everybody.

  9. LadyRamkin November 21, 2015 at 7:24 pm -      #109

    okay, 10 was a really low number, somthing less than 60 but still perfectly playable. Like i assume all the other halo games had.

  10. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 21, 2015 at 7:50 pm -      #110

    Wow, I’m gone for a bit and Ramkin has cancer? Fuck me. That’s sad to hear, good luck!
    ==
    “Can you actually PROVE that the game is so much better without it?”
    – Nah. I mean, I could point out that it has sold more copies in its first week than every other Halo game, does that prove that its better? If that doesn’t then no, besides these arguments, I have no evidence.

    “Not even a little”
    – Absolutely it does. With two arguments, the argument with the more valid points wins. That’s me.

    “That… proves literally nothing. EXCEPT that it sold 800,000 units in its first week.”
    – It proves that people prefer a smoother, bigger, smarter AI having game over one with splitscreen.

    “Are you assuming that evcery person that wants split screen signed a petition? or that people that want split screen refused to buy the game at all??”
    – The former. It goes to show that you are the minority. Even if the actual number of people who want splitscreen is actually 5 times that number, you’re so minuscule that caving in to your (by which I mean, the minority’s) wants is practically useless when it hurts the game for the majority.

    “So yes… i would still be happy.”
    – Woo, you’re even more of a minority.

    “Just because you dont accept that does not mean that its not a valid reason.”
    – Child: I don’t want to eat vegetables because I don’t like them, that’s a reason!
    That’s still bitching.

    “Then you have not delved too deeply into the internet.”
    – Nah, I have, that comment just rustles my jimmies more than most things for some reason.

    “that comment doesnt make any sense to me. Surely a condescending tone implies angriness.”
    – No it doesn’t. It implies a high-and-mighty mindset, not anger.

    “1) Where are these facts, just stating your opinion does not make it true.”
    – I haven’t stated my opinion, though it is plainly evident on Halo 5. The facts make up the bulk of my argument.

    “Explain how that is baseless.The lower amount of derived enjoyment is base enough”
    – Its baseless in that it has no logical ground on which to stand. Just like a child hating vegetables is baseless.

    “It might if:
    1) You had any facts at your disposal

    2) The opinions were baseless

    3) I was wearing my panties, but they are in the dryer at the minuet”
    -1) I do.
    2) They are.
    3) You wash all your undergarments at once? That’s… interesting.
    ==
    “Cancer from reading tmwta’s posts? Or actually irl cancer? The former would be a dank meme, the latter is disheartening.”
    – Pimp, its OAOTU, not TMWTA.
    ==
    But I think Imma bow out now, this has been going on for way to long. Again, good luck, Ramkin.

  11. Nsl98 November 21, 2015 at 8:53 pm -      #111

    Well, i think i might have cancer

    Oh man, good luck and feel better Ramkin.

  12. Zazax November 21, 2015 at 9:38 pm -      #112

    “I mean, I could point out that it has sold more copies in its first week than every other Halo game, does that prove that its better?”
    Actually, this by itself doesn’t really prove much for a number of reasons.
    First is brand power; the first Halo, and possibly also the second to a lesser extent, didn’t have the big shiny Halo name behind them to give it an established fanbase, and even Bungie itself at the time was only really modestly well-known for Marathon. 343 obviously wasn’t even a thing yet. None of these three were the juggernauts and/or pop culture icons they are now. Lacking an established and devoted fanbase, of course the earlier games wouldn’t sell as well as the later ones.
    Second, and perhaps most notably, is the expansion of the market. Put simply, more people are gaming now than ever before. The percentage of the population that ‘games’ has been steadily increasing for some time (while the population itself also increases), and while a significant portion of that is pretty exclusively casual/facebook/mobile (whatever you want to call it) gaming, it does bleed into the other, more traditional genres, *especially* FPSs like Halo, Battlefield, and CoD, and RPGs like Final Fantasy and Elder Scrolls. There’s a reason why big franchises like this have a tendency to consistently break their release-year sales records, and it’s not because every game is way better than the last.
    Thirdly, and probably the most minor, is advertising. Video game advertising outside of traditional ‘geek’ circles isn’t particularly common. This year, and discarding mobile games, I can only remember seeing TV advertisements for Hearthstone (although there’s the argument that that’s a mobile game too…), Destiny, Tomb Raider, Gears of War, and, surprise, surprise, Halo 5. With the aforementioned growing gaming market, and particularly for people not already ‘into’ things like console and PC gaming, this is exactly the sort of thing that can bring new fans into a franchise, completely independent of the actual quality of the game. The fact that Halo and the Chief himself have the even more aforementioned Brand Power behind them now makes it even better, because that means they’ve probably at least heard of it before. My dad has never played a game since Command and Conquer/Warcraft 2 and doesn’t know who Bowser or Peach are, but can identify the Master Chief on sight. This is a very powerful thing.

    It’s also entirely possible that the figures are that high because it’s the best game ever made. But high sales figures, or even more active players, especially in a franchise as venerable as Halo, with such a devoted fanbase and with such a wide marketing strategy, do not themselves imply superior quality. Context matters. Remember; Wii Sports is the second-highest selling game of all time. And that’s not even touching things like Farmville, Candy Crush, and Solitaire.

    /off-topic wall-o’-text

    On another note, I’ll echo the sympathies of everyone else in wishing you well, Ramkin.

  13. Ninja Lowk November 21, 2015 at 9:41 pm -      #113

    The reasons for the removal are the ones you might expect: the demands that the team is putting on the hardware just wouldn’t support two players one the same console. The environments are too large, the AI is too complex, the team’s vision was focused on other things. 60 FPS isn’t free either.
    “The decision to remove split-screen support from Halo 5: Guardians was one of the most difficult ones we’ve ever had to make as a studio,” 343 studio head Josh Holmes wrote in a blog post a little while back. “We know that for many of our fans, Halo has meant playing together with friends in the same room. We all have great memories of past Halo split-screen multiplayer matches.”
    “Many of our ambitious goals for Halo 5 would be compromised in a split-screen setting and the time spent optimizing and addressing split-screen-specific issues would take focus from building other parts of the game,” he continued. “Game development is a balancing act of resources, time and technology, and in this case we made the tough decision to sacrifice something that’s been near and dear to us all.”

    -http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2015/08/17/why-343-cant-put-split-screen-multiplayer-back-into-halo-5-guardians/
    So basically Answerer was right about them sacrificing to splitscreen to fit everything else in.
    I recall somewhere they could have brought it down to 30 fps but well, curse of the next-gen; They wanted the aesthetics: smooth, pretty, big. -insert boob joke here-
    ===
    On a side note about split screen and frame rate.
    www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/84ad72a8b51847978545f685f651fc15/topics/will-split-screen-run-at-60fps/757a5835-d8a5-4b5b-ba12-f167cc4a855b/posts
    See what I mean.

    That said I’ve heard of game that swtich from 60 to a lower frame rate for splitscreen so they could’ve probably done that.

  14. Ninja Lowk November 21, 2015 at 9:49 pm -      #114

    Damn you timer
    @Ramkin
    Here’s hoping for no cancer.

  15. Nsl98 November 21, 2015 at 10:19 pm -      #115

    Testing….

  16. admin November 21, 2015 at 10:42 pm -      #116

    @LadyRamkin – Sorry to hear the news. Please keep us posted when you find out. It’s scary as hell, and depending on what type and where it’s located makes all the difference. Contact me if you want to talk.

  17. Ober's Here November 21, 2015 at 10:47 pm -      #117

    @LadyRamkin

    Damn. That’s tough. I’d guess the only thing to say would be that in this day and age, surviving cancer isn’t uncommon.

    @admin
    Hey, I’ve been meaning to ask how you’ve been doing, in regards to your eye and all that. I noticed your not the one posting matches anymore so I’m wondering if your ok.

  18. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 21, 2015 at 11:05 pm -      #118

    “That said I’ve heard of game that swtich from 60 to a lower frame rate for splitscreen so they could’ve probably done that.”
    – Other games have done it. I know Battle Front has it like that but theirs comes at a cost too. On top of the lower frame rate, you can’t play the campaign and, IIRC, it was only available for specific “missions.” Thanks for finding that article, I was looking but couldn’t find it.
    ==
    “Actually, this by itself doesn’t really prove much for a number of reasons.”
    – Which is why I said that if that wasn’t proof than I couldn’t prove it, implying I was shaky on the grounds that it could actually prove what she was asking me to prove. I know sales do not necessarily imply greatness.
    ==
    Looks like I’m not bowing out because I am a child and feel the need to defend myself at every turn, ha.

  19. admin November 22, 2015 at 12:00 am -      #119

    @Ober’s Here – Thanks for asking. Last scan in August came up “clean”, meaning no cancer. Next one is in February. As long as that continues, life is all good. I’m working on some projects that I’m hoping to get produced, and one is targeted to be ready by August of 2016, and the other gets started in March of 2016. As soon as I have anything to report, you guys will be the first to know.

  20. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 5:16 am -      #120

    “and Ramkin has cancer?”

    POTENTIALLY
    – – –
    “does that prove that its better?”

    Nope. I mean i recently bought legacy of the void, did i know it was better than Wings og liberty or heart of the swarm? No. i hadent played it yet. initial sales cant tell you anything about the quality of the game. Because the people buying it are buying it blind, there arent any proper in depth reviews out in that time for people to judge its worth yet.
    – – –
    “With two arguments, the argument with the more valid points wins. ”

    Except we said that we dont like like this becasue of our very subjective X, you said your X is wrong/stupid/doesnt matter because of my super factual Y. Since you have no actual evidence for Y, it kinda doesnt exist.
    – – –
    “It proves that people prefer a smoother, bigger, smarter AI having game over one with splitscreen.”

    Except no one in the first week could have know that it would definitly have all those features, there have been many games on release that totally fail to live upto what they promise. You also assume that ALL people who want split screen didnt buy it, which is very likely false.
    – – –
    “you’re even more of a minority.”

    That’s racist *cinema sins ding*
    – – –
    “I don’t want to eat vegetables because I don’t like them, that’s a reason!
    That’s still bitching.”

    I don’t like that there is no split screen because is directly negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game. How is that bitching? HOW? because you disagree?
    – – –
    “No it doesn’t. It implies a high-and-mighty mindset, not anger”

    but arnt high and mighty people angry alot?
    – – –
    “I haven’t stated my opinion, though it is plainly evident on Halo 5.”

    The removal of splitscreen is why halo 5 is as good as it is. is an opinion. You have not proved that. you have just said it over and over.
    – – –
    “1) I do.
    2) They are.
    3) You wash all your undergarments at once? That’s… interesting.”

    1) still dont
    2) are not
    3) well no, i have my laundry day “undergarments” which are not actually panties
    – – –
    “Again, good luck, Ramkin.”

    Thanks
    – – –
    “Oh man, good luck and feel better Ramkin”

    thank you too
    – – –
    “wishing you well,”

    Thanks aswell
    – – –
    “Here’s hoping for no cancer.”

    Same here
    – – –
    “Please keep us posted when you find out.”

    Will do boss
    – – –
    “It’s scary as hell,”

    So far i have managed to avoid being scared, im very VERY worried. But not actually scared yet. if it turns out to be cancer im sure the terror will set in.

  21. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 22, 2015 at 12:22 pm -      #121

    “Since you have no actual evidence for Y, it kinda doesnt exist.”
    – Except I do. Come on, Even Bombad, whom I haven’t had the best relationship with, said I had valid points, Lowk found the article that legitimizes all the facts I’ve been using as the pillars upon which my argument rests and the best you’ve got is the non-point of “I don’t like it.” That, by definition, makes my more-valid-point-having argument right.

    “Except no one in the first week could have know that it would definitly have all those features”
    – They did know that it wouldn’t have splitscreen and knew it would be smoother (60 FPS was a huge selling point) and yet they bought it.

    ” You also assume that ALL people who want split screen didnt buy it, which is very likely false.”
    – I don’t assume that. Whether or not they buy it doesn’t matter because I am only taking my numbers from the signed petitions. If they signed the petition and bought it then they are simultaneously part of the 2% and 800,000 which does nothing to fact that they are a minority.

    “That’s racist *cinema sins ding*”
    – Haha. Good one.

    “How is that bitching? HOW? because you disagree?”
    – Child: I don’t like vegetables because they taste bad because it directly negatively impacts my dinner having experience.
    STILL bitching.

    “but arnt high and mighty people angry alot?”
    – I wouldn’t think so. I know when I feel high and mighty I’m not mad at the person who I feel better than.

    “You have not proved that. you have just said it over and over.”
    – Except from a purely technical standpoint, I have. Thanks again, Lowk!!

    “1) still dont
    2) are not
    3) well no, i have my laundry day “undergarments” which are not actually panties”
    – 1) Do
    2) Are so
    3) Huh. I feel like I know you better now, Ramkin.

  22. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 12:52 pm -      #122

    “Lowk found the article that legitimizes all the facts”

    Eeh, just because they say something doesn’t make it true.”
    – – –
    “I’ve been using as the pillars upon which my argument rests”

    Im not even totally sure that we are arguing.

    There are people that dont like that there is no split screen. – true

    Without split screen those people enjoy the game less – true

    It is entirely reasonable to dislike something about a video game if it directly results in you losing out on enjoyment – true.

    I mean…. im not saying that that halo 5 should have had split screen or that they should add it.

    Im just saying that people dont like it was taken out and their reasons for not linking that are valid. All of this FPS, AI, map size stuff is entirely irrelevant to those core points i am trying to make.

    you really should be argueng with pimpmage, whom insists that the game is incomplete. Im not saying anything really simmilar. And if i did, then thats because i get very easily derailed.
    – – –
    “and the best you’ve got is the non-point of “I don’t like it.” That, by definition, makes my more-valid-point-having argument right.”

    Except im not really making a point….. i mean, what is it you think we are arguing about that i need to put a point forward about???

    All i am trying to do, successfully or not, is say that people upset by the removal of split screen are justified in feeling that way. Not that its removal was a good or bad thing.
    – – –
    “They did know that it wouldn’t have splitscreen and knew it would be smoother and yet they bought it.”

    It is still possible to buy something even if it has removed a feature that you liked. Just because someone bought it does not mean that they agree with everything in it. (or not in it as the case may be)
    – – –
    “60 FPS was a huge selling point”

    for those that care. I mean if i want to buy a game, i will. If that game just happens to boast 60FPS that has nothing to do with why i bought it, infact i probably wont even notice 60FPS let alone hinge my buying decisions on it.
    – – –
    “If they signed the petition and bought it”

    And how do you know where the overlap is??
    I am totally confused…. If you buy it you dont necessarily agree with the removal of split screen, and if you disagree with the removal of splitscreen you didn’t necessarily sign the petition.

    You have no idea how many people that have the game care about splitscreen.

    you have no idea how many people that care about split screen signed the petition,.

    You really have no numbers at all.
    – – –
    “STILL bitching”

    i disagree. We are gonna need to find a common ground definition for bitching if we want to keep argueing that point.
    – – –
    “I know when I feel high and mighty I’m not mad at the person who I feel better than”

    Fair enough.
    – – –
    “Except from a purely technical standpoint, I have. Thanks again, Lowk!!”

    except you cant prove the truth of that statement. Developer word of god does not apply to reality, just because they insist it was to boost performance in other areas we cant actually prove that.
    – – –
    “1) Do
    2) Are so
    3) Huh. I feel like I know you better now, Ramkin.”

    1) do not
    2) are not
    3) okay.

  23. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 1:17 pm -      #123

    “Eeh, just because they say something doesn’t make it true”

    Remember how the xbone was going to be shipped out with online only accessibility? Microsoft was stating that everything was designed around that aspect of forcing people to only be able to play their stuff online. There was a HUGE outrage about that from the consumer base. And you know what happened? Microsoft responded by removing that forced online restriction within a week or so. Confirming that they just lied to everyone in an attempt to kill resale markets.

    m.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/Always_Online_Connection

    Developers bring up bullshit reasons to fuck over their consumer base in attempts to make more money. This excuse by 343 is just another such attempt to outright lie to the consumer base forcing people to buy multiple xbones and game copies to play with eachother. And anyone that defends companies that do this to consumers are asshats.

  24. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 1:30 pm -      #124

    “This excuse by 343 is just another such attempt to outright lie to the consumer base”

    You cant prove that.

    Just as Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable cant prove that split screen was removed to boost performance.

    All we actually know is that it WAS removed.

  25. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 2:00 pm -      #125

    If it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck, it’s a fucking duck. It would be suicide for 343 to actually admit such a horrible thing, so they will not. Companies lose touch with their target audience wants when investors demand increased profits. That’s why Microsoft tried to pull this shit, and now 343 pulls the same stunt. All the puzzle pieces add up too perfectly for it to not be true . Sure, nobody can prove anything because nothing is provable.

  26. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 2:15 pm -      #126

    “because nothing is provable”

    uh…. prove it?

  27. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 2:21 pm -      #127

    You exist solely as a figment of my imagination Ramkin. You are no more than a piece of a dream within my godhead.

  28. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 2:22 pm -      #128

    Sweet…. wait…. that means you are directly responsible for me possibly having cancer… dick.

  29. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 2:34 pm -      #129

    That’s why I invented the infinite universe theory, you are effectively immortal. Not joking. Look up quantum suicide experiment.

  30. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 22, 2015 at 2:59 pm -      #130

    “Eeh, just because they say something doesn’t make it true.”
    – Yeah, sure, let’s just doubt every source we can because it might not be true. This entire site is useless, than.

    “Im not even totally sure that we are arguing.”
    – I don’t think we are anymore. Point still stands though. When we were by valid point having argument beats yours (and Pimp’s and everyone elses that voiced their dislike of the lack of splitscreen) every time.

    “All of this FPS, AI, map size stuff is entirely irrelevant to those core points i am trying to make.”
    – Those points matter though when the issue is the removal of said feature. The reasons why it was removed matter just as much as your reaction to it being removed.

    “i mean, what is it you think we are arguing about that i need to put a point forward about???”
    – That splitscreen’s removal from Halo somehow makes it lesser, which you have claimed multiple times.

    “for those that care. I mean if i want to buy a game, i will.”
    – I’m not saying you, personally, noticed. But others did, I did.

    “And how do you know where the overlap is??”
    – The overlap is inconsequential. It doesn’t matter if those who signed the petition did or did not buy the game, we know XX amount of people signed to get splitscreen back and XXXXXXX amount of Halo 5’s were sold, from there we can say that those who signed where a minority of the overall fanbase and from there we can assume the size of the minority that wanted splitscreen back. The XX is essentially a sample size.

    “We are gonna need to find a common ground definition for bitching if we want to keep argueing that point.”
    – I already stated how I define bitching. Bitching is defined as complaining about something for no reason as defined by me.

    “Developer word of god does not apply to reality, just because they insist it was to boost performance in other areas we cant actually prove that.”
    – We take it on good faith. What reason do we have to doubt it? This is a proper appeal to authority. Unless you, or someone you know, can legitimately argue against 343i than it stands.

    “Developers bring up bullshit reasons to fuck over their consumer base in attempts to make more money.”
    – Yes, Pimp its all apart of the conspiracy never mind everything TWMTA said about all the free shit 343i gave us. *insert eye roll here*

  31. Ninja Lowk November 22, 2015 at 3:12 pm -      #131

    “You cant prove that.”

    Pimp is one of those angry people I was talking about. Somewhere out there is another just like him who’d be spouting something similar if they put in split screen and had to sacrifice something else.

  32. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 3:39 pm -      #132

    “let’s just doubt every source we can because it might not be true.”

    …..yes…. If something might not be true you doubt it…. that is just…. like…. yes…. especially when the source is a character statement and doubly especially when that source has a vested interest in looking as good as possible.
    – – –
    “I don’t think we are anymore. Point still stands though. When we were by valid point having argument beats yours (and Pimp’s and everyone elses that voiced their dislike of the lack of splitscreen) every time”

    I dont think you understand. and i don’t know if i can get you to understand. There is nothing wrong with disliking the removal of split screen. It is a perfectly valid thing to do. For many valid reasons.

    If you can not enjoy halo 5 without split screen then you are right to dislike that there is no split screen. That single thing directly negatively impacts your life.

    I mean….
    If halo 5 was locked at 30 FPS i would not give a fuck, i could still play the game just fine, wouldn’t even notice. It would not enter my sphere of experience. Not even a little. but if having it locked at 30 meant that you enjoyed halo 5 less, It would be perfectly valid for you to not like that it is locked at 30. That is a perfectly valid thing for you to not like.

    I could not say: “Yeah but locking it to 30 means that you can play split screen, which means that my point is valid and you disliking that its locked to 30 is just bitching. Look at this petition where like 10 people said they want 60FPS, they are such a minority their opinions are wrong”

    Well i could, but i would be wrong to do so, just as wrong as you are now.
    – – –
    “The reasons why it was removed matter just as much as your reaction to it being removed.”

    No they don’t. Those points only matter on a variable basis depending on the REASONS that people didnt want it removed.

    EXAMPLE TIME

    “I dont like the removal of split screen because i cant play with my siblings”. – explain what that has to do with AI, maps, or FPS.

    “I dont like the removal of split screen because it means that i have to pay for another console and game to play with my siblings” – explain what that has to do with AI, maps, or FPS.

    “I dont like the removal of split screen because i don’t enjoy playing games on my own(alone in a room)” – explain what that has to do with AI, maps, or FPS.

    Nothing. at all. Why it was removed has very little to do with why people dont like that it was. They are not related.
    – – –
    “That splitscreen’s removal from Halo somehow makes it lesser, which you have claimed multiple times.”

    I dont personally remember doing that.

    But whether something is “lesser” is subjective. If i judge how great/less a game is by how much fun I have with it, Then the removal of splitscreen DOES make halo 5 lesser, because i am unable to have as much fun with it as i was the other games. Due primarily to split screen.

    How much fun you have with the game clearly is not linked to split screen in any way. Therefore you think the game is greater, because it has better AI, bigger maps, higher FPS which are things you derive enjoyment from.
    – – –
    “from there we can say that those who signed where a minority of the overall fanbase”

    No, because how many copies were sold and how many people signed the petition in no way represents the entire fanbase.

    There could be hundreds of thousands of people that bought the game AND want splitscreen back AND didn’t sign the petition.

    The only things they can determine is

    X people signed the petition
    and
    X People bought halo in the first week

    No other meaningful data can be derived from that.
    – – –
    “from there we can say that those who signed where a minority of the overall fanbase”

    Which i suppose is true but still you ignore that not everyone that wanted splitscreen back signed the petition in the first place, there are probably people that didnt even know it existed. And since not all of them signed it you cant make any deductions about what percentage wants it back or not.
    – – –
    “I already stated how I define bitching. Bitching is defined as complaining about something for no reason as defined by me.”

    Wait do you mean bitching as defined by you, or having a reason as defined by you,

    Because a child complaining they don’t want to eat their vegetable because they taster bad clearly has a reason to complain.
    The reason being they taste bad. Which IS a reason, but not one you seem to accept
    – – –
    “What reason do we have to doubt it?”

    What reason do we have to trust it? Have they provided evidence to support their claims? If not then you should treat it as any other unproven claim, with general skepticism.

  33. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 3:45 pm -      #133

    “Somewhere out there is another just like him who’d be spouting something similar if they put in split screen and had to sacrifice something else.”

    I think i just got mini Ninja‘d

  34. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 22, 2015 at 4:19 pm -      #134

    “yes…. If something might not be true you doubt it…. that is just…. like…. yes”
    – Why do you feel like it might not be true, that’s what I was poking at. Is it not true just because its in their best interest to look good? But then how can we trust anything? Are only things which may or may not hurt someone true? How do you judge? Why they’d include all that other stuff when just FPS was the original story?

    “There is nothing wrong with disliking the removal of split screen. It is a perfectly valid thing to do. For many valid reasons.”
    – See, you say that and then you come at me with, what I will now dub, the “child defense” of “I don’t like it” which is not, at all, a valid reason.

    “If halo 5 was locked at 30 FPS i would not give a fuck, i could still play the game just fine, wouldn’t even notice.”
    – As I’ve said several times already, I think Lowk’s even repeated it a few times, other people would notice and other people would be using the “child defense” too. Its not a valid reason, at least not in the sense that you’re trying to make it. Its fine to say “I don’t like this thing,” it is not fine to say “I don’t like this thing therefore it sucks” which is what this whole argument spawned from.

    Don’t like it, fine, just don’t bitch.

    “Well i could, but i would be wrong to do so, just as wrong as you are now.”
    – Another strawman of my argument, do they never cease?! If I was mad that they locked it at 30 FPS for no reason (a la bitching) than yes, you would be more valid by definition. I never used the minority thing as a point in my argument either., again. And their opinion isn’t wrong because they’re a minority, I said multiple times now that it would be stupid to cater to them because they’re the minority.

    ““I dont like the removal of split screen because i cant play with my siblings”. – explain what that has to do with AI, maps, or FPS.”
    – You’re shifting the issue with both of these examples. Again, this entire argument started off with Pimp saying Halo 5 is inherently worse because it has no splitscreen, that’s the issue and AI, maps, and FPS have EVERYTHING to do with that.

    “I dont personally remember doing that.”
    – I do. #120. The Burden is on that claim, which you have NO valid argument for besides “I don’t like it” which makes yours a losing argument.

    “No, because how many copies were sold and how many people signed the petition in no way represents the entire fanbase.”
    – Its a sample size, Ramkin, and it does give a good indication of numbers even if you refuse to believe it does.

    ” And since not all of them signed it you cant make any deductions about what percentage wants it back or not.”
    – Except you can, Ramkin. Again, a sample size is a thing. The number of people who want splitscreen back is likely higher than 2%, but is it going to be as radically high as 50%? I doubt it. sheer numbers alone almost promise if the overall % was higher than the number of people who actually signed it would be higher. Therefore ~2% is a perfectly acceptable approximation of the minority’s size in the Halo fandom.

    “Wait do you mean bitching as defined by you, or having a reason as defined by you,”
    – Bitching. A reason would be a reason regardless of my personal evaluation of that reason.

    “The reason being they taste bad. Which IS a reason, but not one you seem to accept”
    – That’s not a reason. “Because I don’t like it” isn’t a reason. Fuck I should have said valid reason, huh? Damn my need to eat!

    “What reason do we have to trust it? Have they provided evidence to support their claims?”
    – So you hear a response from someone who knows what they’re talking about but your instant instinct is to mistrust because they didn’t prove what they said? What? So if an astronaut came to you and said ‘there’s no gravity on the ISS” your first response would be ‘prove it’? Because… I doubt that.

    “If not then you should treat it as any other unproven claim, with general skepticism.”
    – See, this is right… if the claim was by a non-authority. If, say, Joe Blow tells you something regarding law, you should be skeptical about it. If a lawyer told you about the law? Then you accept it as true unless other circumstances tell you not to (e.g. the lawyer is actively working to imprison you.) this is how authority works, not however you think it doesn’t.

  35. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 4:47 pm -      #135

    “Is it not true just because its in their best interest to look good?”

    It is POTENTIALLY not true, because it is in their best interest to look good. Thats all im sayin.
    – – –
    “See, you say that and then you come at me with, what I will now dub, the “child defense” of “I don’t like it” which is not, at all, a valid reason”

    Sigh…..
    – – –
    “Its fine to say “I don’t like this thing,” it is not fine to say “I don’t like this thing therefore it sucks” ”

    We are saying “we dont like this thing and this is why”.

    To which you reply with “You do not have a valid reason why you dont like it, shut up”. Which is totally unreasonable.
    – – –
    “If I was mad that they locked it at 30 FPS for no reason (a la bitching) than yes, you would be more valid by definition. I never used the minority thing as a point in my argument either., again. And their opinion isn’t wrong because they’re a minority, I said multiple times now that it would be stupid to cater to them because they’re the minority.”

    again, you seem to have completely missed what i am trying to say.
    – – –
    “You’re shifting the issue with both of these examples.”

    No im not.
    People say they dont like the removal of split screen. They give a reason, you say that that reason is not valid and the point to All of that other shit.

    THAT is all I have been arguing against. You saying that they dont have valid reasons for not liking it. That is the only reason i am still responding.
    – – –
    “this entire argument started off with Pimp saying Halo 5 is inherently worse because it has no splitscreen,”

    And FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW, they are correct. Anything that makes a game less fun is a bad thing. And what you find fun is subjective. Though pimpmage is more angry at paying the same amount of money for what s/he percieves to be less content, but i am not arguing that at all.
    – – –
    ” #120″

    That is a big ass comment, be more specific please.
    – – –
    “Its a sample size, Ramkin, and it does give a good indication of numbers even if you refuse to believe it does.”

    this is more of you insisting that something is true, without proving it.
    – – –
    “Again, a sample size is a thing”

    And your sample completely fails to take into count, like a million things (obvious hyperbole is obvious)

    For starters the only people that would have signed the petition are well, people that sign petitions, i personally dont. i know many people that dont sign petitions at all for a vast majority of reasons.

    Then you have to take into account, internet access, regional relevance, general motivation, access to said petition in the first place. ectect

    You can not in any way claim that a random online petition gives an actuate sample of the halo fanbase, that is ludicrous.
    – – –
    “That’s not a reason”

    that is the textbook definition of a reason
    – – –
    “valid reason”

    Okay, valid as defined by who?
    – – –
    “So you hear a response from someone who knows what they’re talking about but your instant instinct is to mistrust because they didn’t prove what they said”

    How can i possibly know, that they know what they are talking about if they didn’t prove it???

    “So if an astronaut came to you and said ‘there’s no gravity on the ISS” your first response would be ‘prove it’? Because… I doubt that.”

    does an astronaut have any potential interest in lying about levels of gravity, could he potentially gain from a lie like that?
    – – –
    “I doubt that.”

    See, general skepticism, works a charm
    – – –
    “Then you accept it as true unless other circumstances tell you not to (e.g. the lawyer is actively working to imprison you.)”

    And this company is actively trying to sell me things… they want my money. And if they had said, “we took out split screen so taht we could increase console and game sales” There is no way i would ever buy their game. Therefore they do have a reason to potentially lie. Whether or not they did has not been proven by either of you.

  36. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 4:53 pm -      #136

    “That’s not a reason. “Because I don’t like it” isn’t a reason. Fuck I should have said valid reason, huh? Damn my need to eat!”

    Okay……. can you give me a valid reason to not like a food?

    Because according to you tasting bad, is not a valid reason to not like food. And as far as i am concerned it is one of the only valid reasons to not like food.

  37. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 22, 2015 at 5:43 pm -      #137

    “It is POTENTIALLY not true, because it is in their best interest to look good. Thats all im sayin.”
    – But why is it POTENTIALLY untrue? Just because it makes them look good? That’s… ha… that’s not a reason.

    “Sigh…..”
    – 😀

    “We are saying “we dont like this thing and this is why”.

    To which you reply with “You do not have a valid reason why you dont like it, shut up”. Which is totally unreasonable.”
    – What a world. Wanting valid reasons makes me unreasonable, how… ironic.

    “again, you seem to have completely missed what i am trying to say.”
    – Doubt it? But I don’t know, if I missed it I wouldn’t know if I missed it, I guess.

    “THAT is all I have been arguing against. You saying that they dont have valid reasons for not liking it. That is the only reason i am still responding.”
    – If that’s the only reason you’re still replying than you can stop by telling me how “I don’t like it” is even kind of a valid reason to claim something sucks.

    “And FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW, they are correct.”
    – But from a logical, reasonable point of view they are wrong.

    “That is a big ass comment, be more specific please.”
    – Bleep bloop.

    “I don’t like that there is no split screen because is directly negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game.” – LadyRamkin

    There ya go :)

    “this is more of you insisting that something is true, without proving it.”
    – Ramkin, look up sample size.

    “A small portion, piece, or segment selected as a sample.”

    That’s what this is. Its a sample size.

    “And your sample completely fails to take into count, like a million things”
    – Nope. None of those things matter. Whether the petition numbers bought it or not; whether the whole Halo fanbase bought it or not. We know for a fact that X people wanted splitscreen and we know X people bought it. Therefore what, Ramkin.

    “You can not in any way claim that a random online petition gives an actuate sample of the halo fanbase, that is ludicrous.”
    – And it was 3 petitions, not 1.

    “that is the textbook definition of a reason”
    – Tisn’t. Not a valid reason, anyway.

    “Okay, valid as defined by who?”
    – Wow, okay, let’s define our terms.
    – Valid: having a sound basis in logic or fact
    – Bitching: complaining without a valid reason.

    “How can i possibly know, that they know what they are talking about if they didn’t prove it???”
    – Because we know. Their credentials are plainly evident by a simple google search.

    “does an astronaut have any potential interest in lying about levels of gravity, could he potentially gain from a lie like that?”
    – So only truths that don’t have any potential for gain are true? Ramkin, this is a ridiculous level of hoop jumping you’re making everyone go through.

    “See, general skepticism, works a charm”
    – Because you aren’t an authority on anything. Thus skepticism is warranted

    ” And if they had said, “we took out split screen so taht we could increase console and game sales” There is no way i would ever buy their game. Therefore they do have a reason to potentially lie.”
    – Taking out splitscreen did nothing but hurt their sales. This whole thing is stupid, Ramkin. If telling you A helps me, A is to be doubted because it helps me? That’s a stupid rule of thumb, especially when dealing with someone who is an authority on whatever they’re telling you. There is no reason to doubt what they say except for being obtuse and unwilling to accept the facts behind my argument.

    “And this company is actively trying to sell me things… they want my money.”
    – And this. Please see TMWTA for all the free shit 343i is gave, is giving, and is going to give to players for free.
    ==
    “Okay……. can you give me a valid reason to not like a food?”
    – Because its poisonous, because you don’t know what it is, because its raw, because it could get you sick, because it actively harms you, because you lack something in order to digest it properly, because you’re allergic, because it was on the floor, because you don’t know where its been before you got it, because you don’t know who touched it before it go to you, because you don’t know whats in it.

    Just a few I managed to think of in the time limit to edit posts. still got 2.5 minutes left but I think that’s enough.

  38. LadyRamkin November 22, 2015 at 6:18 pm -      #138

    “But why is it POTENTIALLY untrue?”

    Because it has not been proven to be true. and it has not been proven to be false. Therefore it is potentially true. and also potentially false.
    – – –
    “What a world. Wanting valid reasons makes me unreasonable, how… ironic”

    Then apparently this all comes down to what you think a valid reason is, because that seems to be where our proverbial beef is.
    – – –
    ““I don’t like it” is even kind of a valid reason to claim something sucks”

    its like you fundamentally cant understand.

    “i dont like it” is the opinion not the reason. Nobody has said I don’t like it because i don’t like it. They have given reasons. You just refuse to accept them.
    – – –
    “But from a logical, reasonable point of view they are wrong”

    ……… From a logical reasonable point of view, they are wrong to dislike something that is negatively affecting them….

    Where exactly are you getting this logic and reason from????
    – – –
    “There ya go”

    That is objectively true though…. Without split screen it is impossible for me to enjoy the game. LITERALLY impossible. explain how what i said means that halo 5 is somehow lesser?
    – – –
    “That’s what this is. Its a sample size.”

    And not all samples are reliable or accurate.
    – – –
    “None of those things matter.”
    “We know for a fact that X people wanted splitscreen and we know X people bought it”

    That is pants on head retarded. Of course those things matter, if your sample is not representative of the whole population then you can not make accurate predictions with said sample.
    – – –
    “And it was 3 petitions, not 1.”

    Which still proves NOTHING. I dont, i cant, i just…. its late…. you are silly
    – – –
    “Not a valid reason, anyway.”

    Give me your definition of valid reason.
    – – –
    “Valid: having a sound basis in logic or fact
    Bitching: complaining without a valid reason.”

    Okay. I do not like eating vegetables. I do not like eating them because i think they taste bad. I think they taste bad because when i put them on my tongue they make me physically gag.

    Explain, PLEASE how that is NOT a valid reason for disliking vegetables? Where exactly does the logic break down for you?
    – – –
    “Because we know.”

    BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.
    – – –
    “Their credentials are plainly evident by a simple google search.”

    People with credentials are unable to lie. right, got it.
    – – –
    “So only truths that don’t have any potential for gain are true?”

    Not necessarily. But if someone has a reason they might lie, then what reason do i have to instantly assume that they are telling the truth?
    – – –
    “Because you aren’t an authority on anything”

    as far as you know
    – – –
    “Thus skepticism is warranted”

    Skepticism is ALWAYS warranted.
    – – –
    “Taking out splitscreen did nothing but hurt their sales.”

    Not what i said. If they had stated that they removed it specifically to get more money, i would not have bought it.

    also, you cant prove that, and are objectively wrong.
    – – –
    “There is no reason to doubt what they say”

    and there is no real reason to trust what they say either. being an authority doesnt suddenly make you super honest or anything.
    – – –
    “unwilling to accept the facts behind my argument.”

    as far as i am concerned your “arguments” are all totally irrelevant to what we (the two of us) are discussing. Im more interested in this valid reason business
    – – –
    “And this. Please see TMWTA for all the free shit 343i is gave, is giving, and is going to give to players for free.”

    does any of that stuff, mean that i suddenly dont have to buy an entire console and game and in some cases TV in order to play with my family? No. I STILL have to spend that extra money, regardless of what else they give me for free.
    – – –
    “Because its poisonous, because you don’t know what it is, because its raw, because it could get you sick, because it actively harms you, because you lack something in order to digest it properly, because you’re allergic, because it was on the floor, because you don’t know where its been before you got it, because you don’t know who touched it before it go to you, because you don’t know whats in it.”

    Those are all reason to not put it in your mouth in the first place.

    Give me a valid reason for not liking food. Or do you dismiss all people peoples subjective views???

    Do you hang out with your friends and say “lets get Chinese” and then one of them says “But i dont like chinese” and you respond with “STOP BITCHING”??

  39. Karen Starr November 22, 2015 at 8:10 pm -      #139

    I.., just omg lol. Best discussion ever

  40. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 22, 2015 at 8:35 pm -      #140

    “Therefore it is potentially true. and also potentially false.”
    – Didn’t answer the question at all. What reason do we have to think this is false?

    “Then apparently this all comes down to what you think a valid reason is”
    – And a valid reason is very clearly defined as a reason grounded in logic. I.E. “so-and-so sucks because I don’t like it” isn’t a valid reason.

    “They have given reasons. You just refuse to accept them.”
    – First, no, at the beginning of this argument (the whole splitscreen debacle, that is) the issue was “halo 5 sucks because it doesn’t have splitscreen which I liked” or “it doesn’t have something I like therefore it sucks” which is basically “I don’t like it, it sucks.” Second, none of their reasons are valid because… well, they were all emotional arguments.

    “From a logical reasonable point of view, they are wrong to dislike something that is negatively affecting them”
    – Except its not. If they bought the game then maybe, but as many of them didn’t, no ill-affect, no harm, they dislike something because it doesn’t have something they like (which means they don’t like it because they don’t like it.)

    “explain how what i said means that halo 5 is somehow lesser?”
    – I could be wrong, correct me if so, but by saying that a piece of entertainment is unable to entertain you, doesn’t that… sort of definitively say its lesser than any other piece of entertainment?

    “And not all samples are reliable or accurate.”
    – Which is true. Show me why this one isn’t. Oh, you can’t, you can just raise objections.

    “Of course those things matter, if your sample is not representative of the whole population then you can not make accurate predictions with said sample.”
    – Nope. Sorry, Ramkin, you’re just wrong. These numbers tells us X many people definitely wanted splitscreen and XXX many unites of the game sold. That’s all the information we need to deduce that splitscreen babies are the minority.

    “Give me your definition of valid reason.”
    – I already did. Both in my last post and above.

    “I think they taste bad because when i put them on my tongue they make me physically gag.”
    – Do they make you gag because you don’t like them or do you gag so you don’t like them?

    “Explain, PLEASE how that is NOT a valid reason for disliking vegetables? Where exactly does the logic break down for you?”
    – That’s a valid reason not to like vegetables, my above comment not withstanding. Because that is something that is unpreventable, you can’t get around the gag to eat vegetables. This, splitscreen, is not like that. There are ways to get around the no-splitscreen having issue. Thus, its not valid to just not like it. Thus its bitching.

    “BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.”
    “People with credentials are unable to lie. right, got it.”
    – Alright, see, now you have to give a reason this authority’s credentials are meaningless now, you have to prove their are lying. Because, ya know, burden of proof.

    “But if someone has a reason they might lie, then what reason do i have to instantly assume that they are telling the truth?”
    – Except they don’t have a reason to lie, Ramkin. You’re making a reason for them to lie for no reason besides being obtuse.

    “Skepticism is ALWAYS warranted.”
    – Not when it comes from a real authority. Its like saying “Hey lawyer guy who went to law school for four years (or whatever), how can I know you really know the law?” See how asinine that is?

    “If they had stated that they removed it specifically to get more money, i would not have bought it.”
    – well its a good thing that’s not what they said.

    “also, you cant prove that, and are objectively wrong.”
    – Uh, did you miss the part were Pimp and at least one other person said they wouldn’t by the game specifically because it lacked splitscreen? So, yes I can and nope, I am objectively right.

    “and there is no real reason to trust what they say either. being an authority doesnt suddenly make you super honest or anything.”
    – It gives us a reason to trust their word. I am getting tired of typing the same stuff over and over.

    “Im more interested in this valid reason business”
    – than let us move on to the valid reason business.

    “No. I STILL have to spend that extra money, regardless of what else they give me for free.”
    – Nope. Instead it directly negates the claim that “they’re just doing it for the money.”

    “Those are all reason to not put it in your mouth in the first place.

    Give me a valid reason for not liking food. Or do you dismiss all people peoples subjective views???”
    – those are all reasons not to eat it, and most are reasons not to like it.

    “Do you hang out with your friends and say “lets get Chinese” and then one of them says “But i dont like chinese” and you respond with “STOP BITCHING”??”
    – Yeah, if 8 people said “Chinese sounds good” than yes, yes I would. Or I’d tell them to get their own food. Or just not eat the Chinese food.

  41. Friendlysociopath November 22, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #141

    I.., just omg lol. Best discussion ever

    Consumerism Gods the world over are facepalming, I agree.

    Hope all goes well on your end Ramkin.

    okay, 10 was a really low number, somthing less than 60 but still perfectly playable.

    30 tends to work perfectly fine, 30-60 is “good” and anything over 60 is pointless. 10 would be pretty poor though, for modern games that would be “I want my money back” en masse.

  42. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 8:52 pm -      #142

    “none of their reasons are valid because… well, they were all emotional arguments.”

    Thats not how arguements work…

    “Nope. Sorry, Ramkin, you’re just wrong. These numbers tells us X many people definitely wanted splitscreen and XXX many unites of the game sold. That’s all the information we need to deduce that splitscreen babies are the minority.”

    Holy shit, I am starting to think you are legit like 13 years old and do not know how math works.

    “Alright, see, now you have to give a reason this authority’s credentials are meaningless now, you have to prove their are lying. Because, ya know, burden of proof.”

    Ok, you absolutely have to be like 13 years old. People decieve people for financial gain. It’s a thing. Why don’t you go take that line of reasoning and join a pyramid scheme and make millions of dollars. Santa isnt real.

    “It gives us a reason to trust their word. I am getting tired of typing the same stuff over and over.”

    You seem to only be able to talk and not think. You are a broken record then. Like kitten lord.

    “than let us move on to the valid reason business.”

    Yes, like how you somehow survived long enough to learn to read and write. How old are you really? did you even graduate middle school?

  43. AbsoluteZero November 22, 2015 at 9:29 pm -      #143

    Wow. This.. happened.

    Alright. I consider Halo 5 to be less interesting to me as a product due to the lack of splitscreen. You’ll notice my use of ‘me’ there. Very important.

    This is the case because ‘I’ am of the opinion that the Halo plotline is dull, so the story doesn’t sway me. Ergo, singleplayer has no inherent value to me over another first person shooter, for instance, Wolfenstein: The New Order. Which is at the other end of the spectrum of having amazing singleplayer.

    I also have no interest in Player Versus Player modes. Rendering most all multiplayer points moot. While co-operative play is there online, I have a general rule of not co-oping people I can’t slap for being jackasses. I think it’s a pretty understandable rule.

    As a result, Halo 5 is at the absolute, bottom of ‘my’ list so far as Halo games go.

    This may be different for you. My outlook on the product doesn’t have to be your outlook on the product. You might want different things from the product, than I do. But your differing opinon doesn’t render my opinion irrelivant. I even agree that they likely did remove splitscreen to boost the framerate, as sad as I find that being necessary on a Next-Gen console. That being the case or not, is absolutely moot when it comes to my enjoyment of the game.

    As for using a petition as proof that nobody wanted splitscreen, I have to disagree. I, for one. Hadn’t even heard of a petition. You can’t factor in how many people just didn’t know of it, or didn’t sign it, or didn’t care enough to.

    Finally, calling people ‘splitscreen babies’ only showcases your own lack of maturity, and unwillingness to accept the opinions of others. I don’t have to provide objective fact, as I am not debating that Halo 5 is an objectively bad game. It’s simply not a game I am interested in, for subjective reasons. And thus, subjective reasons are listed.

  44. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 22, 2015 at 9:54 pm -      #144

    “Thats not how arguements work”
    – I agree. Emotional, non-logical arguments do not make for any sort of argumentative stuff.

    “Holy shit, I am starting to think you are legit like 13 years old and do not know how math works.”
    – I love your ad hominem arguments, Pimp. So, very childish.

    “People decieve people for financial gain. It’s a thing.”
    – And that means everyone’s lying just because? Uh, yeah, no, that’s not how that works, Pimp.

    “You seem to only be able to talk and not think. You are a broken record then.”
    – I find it funny (which I only ever do with your responses, Pimp, weird) that you call me repetitive while every single one of you counter arguments are attacks against me and not the argument.

    “Yes, like how you somehow survived long enough to learn to read and write.”
    – Oh, and Pimp shows he’s flunk basic logic. What in Sam’s hell does this, specific, business of valid reasoning have to do with learning to read and write?
    ==
    “This may be different for you.”
    – And you, Absolute Zero, are not who I am arguing against. Pimp said, implied really, that Halo 5 is objectively a bad game because it lacked something. Not that his opinion of the game was bad, but that it was objectively bad. People will have opinions and that’s all well and good or whatever but when you, at the very least, imply that a game is worse than any other game because of something you don’t like about it than you’d in the wrong, and losing that argument.

    “As for using a petition as proof that nobody wanted splitscreen, I have to disagree. ”
    – Sample size. Come one, people. There are going to be people who didn’t sign it, sure, that doesn’t matter though. It goes to show that those who want splitscreen back are the minority. It doesn’t say their exact numbers, but it does hint that they are on the smaller end of Halo’s fanbase.

    “Finally, calling people ‘splitscreen babies’ only showcases your own lack of maturity, and unwillingness to accept the opinions of others.”
    – Gah. Only on the internet can you be accused of being a baby for calling someone else a baby. Only on the internet can giving a group of people a name imply you’re unwilling to change your mind. That is stupid, and hypocritical unless you’re now willing to say that calling me a baby (or immature, same gist) now makes you immature and unwilling to change your mind? No?

    “I don’t have to provide objective fact, as I am not debating that Halo 5 is an objectively bad game.”
    – You are not. Pimp was. Ramkin did. They need objective reasons for why its a bad game. Valid objective reasons beyond “I don’t like it because I don’t like it.”

  45. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 10:41 pm -      #145

    OK, This guy has to be a troll. Nobody can be this stupid intentionally. He simply cannot be reasoned with.

  46. Ninja Lowk November 22, 2015 at 11:01 pm -      #146

    Are we even talking about the original de-railing topic or have we devolved into name calling and debating something stupid like having a valid reason behind an opinion?

  47. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 11:21 pm -      #147

    I’m sorry, I’ve reached a new low these past few days. Literally no recent matches interest me in the slightest, so I get kicks from watching this guy digging his own grave.

  48. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 22, 2015 at 11:36 pm -      #148

    The latter, Lowk. Well Pimp calls names, everyone just kind of ignores him and moves on.

  49. pimpmage November 22, 2015 at 11:43 pm -      #149

    “Well Pimp calls names”

    i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/897/107/373.png

    “everyone just kind of ignores him and moves on.”

    i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/491/457/2be.gif

  50. LadyRamkin November 23, 2015 at 3:24 am -      #150

    “You are not. Pimp was. Ramkin did.”

    Okay, i will respond to everything else in like 3 ana half hours but first things first. I did not say Halo 5 was objectively bad. At any point.

  51. LadyRamkin November 23, 2015 at 4:33 am -      #151

    “Didn’t answer the question at all. What reason do we have to think this is false?”

    We do not need a reason to think its false to not believe it’s true. AND We do not need a reason to think it’s true to believe its not false.

    Its time for my wonderful yet usually useless analogies

    You enter into a competition to guess if the number of sweets/candy in a jar is Odd or even.

    Do you think the number of sweets/candy is odd.
    If yes, why?
    If no, good, because there is no evidence to say that it is odd. However does this necessarily mean you think the number of sweets/candy is even?
    If yes, why?
    If no, good, because there is no evidence to say that it is even.

    what you have there is an instance of where the number of sweets/candy HAS TO BE either odd or even.
    But you DO NOT THINK that it is odd or even.

    Okay, now to try and make this example more…… applicable.

    Lets say an odd/even guessing expert comes over. And he says to you that “the number of sweets/candy in the jar is odd.

    Do you believe this statement is true?
    If yes, why?
    If no, good, because there is no evidence to say that it is true. However does this necessarily mean you think the statement is false?
    If yes, why?
    If no, good, because there is no evidence to say that the statement is false.

    what you have there is an instance of where the statement HAS TO BE either true or false.
    But you DO NOT THINK that it is true or false.

    And since it has not been proven either way, the statement is potentially true, AND potentially false.

    Understand?
    – – –
    “because I don’t like it” isn’t a valid reason”

    nobody is saying that their reason is “because they don’t like it” though, you keep insisting that is their reason but it is not.
    – – –
    “halo 5 sucks because it doesn’t have splitscreen which I liked”

    Which i have said several times i am not talking about. I am in no way referring to how good or bad halo 5 is. All i am saying is that people are valid for disliking the removal of splitscreen, you keep trying to make this a larger issue than it is.
    – – –
    “If they bought the game then maybe, but as many of them didn’t, no ill-affect, no harm,”

    Expect for the fact that they didnt buy it. You think halo 5 is great right? And they didnt get to experience that, you know why, no splitscreen. That is a negative impact if ever i saw one.
    – – –
    “sort of definitively say its lesser than any other piece of entertainment?”

    Yes… SUBJECTIVELY. I dont like…. ANY numbered halo games. To me they will always be lesser than games that i rigorously enjoy, such as super metroid, or Bayonetta. You can point out until you are blue in the face that Halo 5 Objectively has better graphics or higher frame rate. But i do not find it fun, it does not appeal to me in any way, Shirley you can tell the difference between subjective views and objective criticism???
    Surely you dont think that all people enjoy the same things based purely on objective merit??????????? Because if you do. We really have nothing to talk about. You are just wrong and i have no power to convince you.
    – – –
    “Which is true. Show me why this one isn’t. Oh, you can’t, you can just raise objections.”

    Show me why it is. Covered this, moving on.
    – – –
    “These numbers tells us X many people definitely wanted splitscreen and XXX many unites of the game sold”

    But without definite values that doesnt mean anything.

    If i have a petition Signed by 2000 people that says halo 5 sucks ass and they want all copies burned, and then i show you another petition signed by 1 dude that says Halo 5 is awesome and they want a free copy so they can play with their siblings.

    Does that mean that people that like halo are a minority 2000 to 1?? 1 in 2001 in the whole world ever, like halo 5. And this is a fair and representative method of judging the fan base according to you?
    – – –
    “I already did. Both in my last post and above.”

    At this point a valid reason seems to be “anything you agree with”.
    – – –
    “There are ways to get around the no-splitscreen having issue”

    Yes, you have to buy another TV, Xbox, gold membership and game, then set them up in the same room sit next to each other.

    That is a perfectly reasonable alternative i feel
    – – –
    “you have to give a reason this authority’s credentials are meaningless now”

    I never said that their credentials were meaningless, but your insistence that someone simply will not lie because they have credentials is The stupidest thing i have read all week.
    – – –
    “you have to prove their are lying”
    No i dont, because all i am saying is that they are potentially lying. Their statements have not been proven true or false, see above

    “Because, ya know, burden of proof.”

    YOU keep insisting that they ARE definitely telling the truth, therefore the burden is yours mr frodo.
    – – –
    “Except they don’t have a reason to lie,”

    BURDEN OF PROO-OOF

    They potentially have a reason to lie. you CANNOT prove that they didnt. Because they didnt present evidence with their claims
    – – –
    “Ramkin. You’re making a reason for them to lie for no reason besides being obtuse.”

    Not really. A company that wants you to give them money lies to you? Because that is totally unprecedented.
    – – –
    “Not when it comes from a real authority”

    Apeals to authority are always meaningless, no exceptions
    – – –
    “who went to law school for four years”

    Prove that
    a) he did that
    b) he passed
    c) did it recently enough to still be competant
    – – –
    “See how asinine that is?”

    that is just being a careful dude right? You want to make sure your lawyers know their shit.
    – – –
    “well its a good thing that’s not what they said.”

    ………….. yeah…………………. but it could still be true and they just lied about it………. are you really too dense to see where that was going….?
    – – –
    “did you miss the part were Pimp and at least one other person said they wouldn’t by the game specifically because it lacked splitscreen? So, yes I can and nope, I am objectively right.”

    Um….. that was in response to you saying “Taking out splitscreen did nothing but hurt their sales”
    Which is objectively WRONG since you just told me at least two people DIDNT buy the game because split screen was removed, Their sales WERE hurt, if only confirm-ably by 2.
    – – –
    “It gives us a reason to trust their word”

    not even a little
    – – –
    “I am getting tired of typing the same stuff over and over.”

    Then stop, most of it is incorrect anyway
    – – –
    “Nope. Instead it directly negates the claim that “they’re just doing it for the money.””

    Not really……
    – – –
    “than yes, yes I would”

    Then you are objectively a dick
    – – –
    “Hope all goes well on your end Ramkin.”

    Thanks, me too
    – – –
    Also +1 to #143
    – – –
    “You are not. Pimp was. Ramkin did”

    When did i say it was objectively bad?!?!
    – – –
    HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA
    Huuuh.
    I love those jimmy rustle pictures……

  52. mack006 November 23, 2015 at 5:43 am -      #152

    @_@

    What is going on here? I came here expecting sunshine and rainbows and all I see is a radioactive wasteland inhabited by scary mutants.

    Come on guys, where is the love? Grab a G.E.C.K and let us purify the wasteland! Make love not war!
    images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/2/1/9/2/3/9/gay-kiss-43214378864.jpeg

  53. LadyRamkin November 23, 2015 at 6:16 am -      #153

    While i do appreciate a bit of man on man action from time time to time, i don’t see how its relevant to what is happening here.

  54. Zazax November 23, 2015 at 9:59 am -      #154

    “What is going on here? I came here expecting sunshine and rainbows and all I see is a radioactive wasteland inhabited by scary mutants.”
    Hey, woah now, let’s not get carried away here.
    Most of us don’t really ‘inhabit’ BankGambling so much as ‘occasionally visit’.
    =P

  55. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable November 23, 2015 at 10:54 am -      #155

    “And since it has not been proven either way, the statement is potentially true, AND potentially false.”
    – That analogy was pretty bad, I’m going to be honest with you. There is no reason to believe they lied beyond everyone could be lying (which isn’t a logical reason to believe anyone lied.) Can you prove he’s lying? No? Then we can believe what he’s saying is likely true.

    “nobody is saying that their reason is “because they don’t like it” though, you keep insisting that is their reason but it is not.”
    – Except it is, Ramkin, its just phrased differently. What’s the difference between these statements:
    “I dislike X because X removed Y.”
    “I dislike X because I dislike X without Y.”.
    Oh, wait, those are exactly the same non-valid reasons. They can both be boiled down to “I dislike X because I dislike X” which isn’t a valid reason.

    “All i am saying is that people are valid for disliking the removal of splitscreen, you keep trying to make this a larger issue than it is.”
    – Do I need to go back to #120? Because you did say that. And its not valid.

    “That is a negative impact if ever i saw one.”
    – So now my subjective view of the game makes it objectively good? Because, from their point of view of “Halo 5 sucks without splitscreen” I am the one negatively impacted.

    “Shirley you can tell the difference between subjective views and objective criticism???”
    – Yep. And here, at the beginning of this, Pimp was giving subjective criticism based on subjective views, which is horse shit.

    And why’d you misspell surely that way?

    “Does that mean that people that like halo are a minority 2000 to 1?? 1 in 2001 in the whole world ever, like halo 5. And this is a fair and representative method of judging the fan base according to you?”
    – No. We know 800,000 people bought the game therefore its 800,001 to 2,000, majority is still pretty prevalent even if those 2,000 bought their own copies of the game they’d still be the minority. But it would tell us at least 2,000 want Halo 5 burned off the face of the earth.

    “At this point a valid reason seems to be “anything you agree with”.”
    – Then you’re not too observant.

    “That is a perfectly reasonable alternative i feel”
    – I didn’t say it was perfect, nor even “good”, all I said was there’s ways around it.

    “I never said that their credentials were meaningless, but your insistence that someone simply will not lie because they have credentials is The stupidest thing i have read all week.”
    – Strawman. Not what I’ve said at all. I’ve said we can believe them because they’re probably correct, not because they never lie. You still have yet to give any reason why the source should be doubted.

    “YOU keep insisting that they ARE definitely telling the truth, therefore the burden is yours mr frodo.”
    – Yep, see above, never claimed that.

    “BURDEN OF PROO-OOF”
    – Oof. Retract that. You still have to give a reason why’d they lie.

    “A company that wants you to give them money lies to you? Because that is totally unprecedented.”
    – This money shit. Is it really all you’ve got?

    “Apeals to authority are always meaningless, no exceptions”
    – Not when the authority is a real authority. Getting biology hints from a biologist isn’t meaningless. Getting tips on the law from a lawyer isn’t meaningless.

    “Prove that
    a) he did that
    b) he passed
    c) did it recently enough to still be competant”
    – Well… seeing as how lawyer is in my head, I can say yes to all that.

    “that is just being a careful dude right?”
    – Nope. Its being obtuse.

    “but it could still be true and they just lied about it………. are you really too dense to see where that was going….?”
    – No, I just hoped you weren’t that… stupid. Prove that’s what they meant. Oh, you can.t “Prove they told the truth” Oh, I can’t. Prove we have any reason to think they’re lying. “Everyone lied.” Not a valid fucking reason.

    “Which is objectively WRONG since you just told me at least two people DIDNT buy the game because split screen was removed”
    – Do you not know what the idiom “nothing but” means, Ramkin? idioms.thefreedictionary.com/nothing+but

    “not even a little”
    – Yep.

    “Then stop, most of it is incorrect anyway”
    – Its really not. Just you being obtuse.

    “Not really……”
    – Yep.

    “Then you are objectively a dick”
    – Not to the majority of friends with whom I agree.

    “When did i say it was objectively bad?!?!”
    – Post 120, again.

  56. LadyRamkin November 23, 2015 at 12:21 pm -      #156

    “That analogy was pretty bad”

    Subjectively or objectively?
    Where exactly were its flaws, explain why it didnt perfectly sum up the situation, give me a reason, a valid one .
    – – –
    “There is no reason to believe they lied”

    And there is no reason to believe they were telling the truth.
    – – –
    Can you prove he’s lying?

    Can you prove he’s not?
    – – –
    “Then we can believe what he’s saying is likely true.”

    You can, but you would be wrong to do so.
    – – –
    “What’s the difference between these statements:
    “I dislike X because X removed Y.”
    “I dislike X because I dislike X without Y.”.”

    One is disliking X becuase it removed somthing.

    Whereas the second is disliking X contingently based on that it has that thing removed.

    “I dislike X because X removed Y.”

    Pimpmage does not like that Halo 5 because halo 5 removed split screen.

    That doesnt mean that he liked splitscreen to begin with, he is just pissed he is getting less content.

    “I dislike X because I dislike X without Y.”.”

    I dont like Halo 5 becasue i dont like Halo without splitscreen.

    without split screen because I will never play it and therefore can not make the judgment that i do.

    Whether or not you can see the differences does not mean that they are not there. AND on top of this your entire X/Y analogy is flawed.

    “I don’t like X, because X removed Y, and without Y I cant do X”
    or
    “I don’t like X, because X removed Y, and without Y I have to do Z”

    Would be much more accurate.

    Also see that, that is called feedback. You should try it.
    – – –
    “Do I need to go back to #120”

    you can if you like…. i dont see how it will get you anywhere.
    – – –
    “Because you did say that. ”

    This doesnt make sense with what you were quoting, because i want denying anything in the quote.
    – – –
    “And its not valid.”

    Neither is your face, stop bitching, jesus.
    – – –
    “So now my subjective view of the game makes it objectively good?”

    so halo 5 isnt good? Good to know.
    – – –
    “Because, from their point of view of “Halo 5 sucks without splitscreen” I am the one negatively impacted.”

    Wait, how?? is this some kind of failed reverse psychology??
    – – –
    “Pimp was giving subjective criticism based on subjective views, which is horse shit.”

    I honestly cant tell if you miss typed that, or are just an idiot. Like, legitimately can not tell.
    – – –
    “And why’d you misspell surely that way?”

    Really? REALLY?? I thought literally EVERYONE had seen airplane.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RIHFL105XA
    – – –
    “No. We know 800,000 people bought the game therefore its 800,001 to 2,000, majority is still pretty prevalent even if those 2,000 bought their own copies of the game they’d still be the minority. But it would tell us at least 2,000 want Halo 5 burned off the face of the earth.”

    This entire thing right here is just…. like…

    you know those videos on the internet, of people throwing themselves off roofs and landing face first on the floor. And you are like:
    “People can not possibly be this stupid”
    that is what i feel about your comment right now. And i genuinely feel that it is less insulting to your intelligence if i just assume you are a troll.
    – – –
    “Then you’re not too observant”

    While that is true. In this case im pretty sure im right.
    – – –
    “I didn’t say it was perfect, nor even “good”, all I said was there’s ways around it.”

    And you cant even fathom that the fact people HAVE to go through this ridiculous work around, could be a valid reason for not liking the removal of split screen??
    – – –
    “You still have yet to give any reason why the source should be doubted.”

    You still have yet to give any reason why the source should be trusted
    – – –
    “Yep, see above, never claimed that”

    You never claimed that they are telling the truth? Fine, none of your “evidence” counts anymore because it is from a questionable source.
    – – –
    “Oof. Retract that.”

    No?
    – – –
    “You still have to give a reason why’d they lie.”

    you seem to think that i am saying they are definitely lying. I am not. If you had any level of reading comprehension then you would know my stance on the issue, from the very long and wordy analogy at the start of my last wall.

    There is NO evidence they are lying
    There is NO evidence they are telling the truth

    They are TOTALLY without evidence. There is no reason to accept what they say as true. Which is NOT the same thing as accepting they are lying.

    YOU want to accept it as TRUE, and you want US to accept it as true. THEREFORE, burden of proof is on YOU.
    – – –
    “This money shit. Is it really all you’ve got?”

    I dont know what it is you want me to do. People CAN lie. That is a fact. This means that anytime ANYONE says ANYTHING it is potentially a lie.
    It is a thing that is possible. That is just a fact.
    The added fact that they want money is just a possible incentive to lie.
    – – –
    “Well… seeing as how lawyer is in my head, I can say yes to all that.”

    So… he is a fictional lawyer inside your head. I have no reason to trust anything he says even if he was omniscient
    – – –
    “Its being obtuse”

    says you
    – – –
    “Prove that’s what they meant.”

    Thats what who meant?
    – – –
    ““Prove they told the truth” Oh, I can’t. ”

    No, no you cant
    – – –
    “Prove we have any reason to think they’re lying.”

    I didnt say they were lying, just that it is potentially a lie.
    – – –
    “Everyone lied.”

    Who said that
    – – –
    “Not a valid fucking reason.”

    yeah, but your version of a valid reason doesnt seem to conform to reality
    – – –
    “Do you not know what the idiom “nothing but” means, Ramkin? idioms.thefreedictionary.com/nothing+but”

    “Taking out splitscreen did nothing but hurt their sales”

    Okay…. wait…. now i am confused. Okay I admit that i misread that, but its gotten to the point, where each “point is its own mini conversation and i have totally forgotten how all of them started and have to scroll up to check for context…. BUT “Taking out splitscreen did nothing but hurt their sales” Does this also mean that it didnt boost FPS or whatever? Because i cant actually remember where this…”plot line” was going
    – – –
    “Its really not. Just you being obtuse.”

    Hypocrisy much?
    – – –
    “Post 120, again.”

    This shit again?? I LITERALLY already addressed this in #138

    here it is copy pasted for your convenience…..

    actually, no, fuck you. If you are gonna make me trawl through walls of your shit, to find a point THAT I ALREADY ADDRESSED because you are too fucking lazy to copy the line from 120, then i am an equally lazy cunt and cant be bothered either.

  57. LadyRamkin November 23, 2015 at 12:52 pm -      #157

    Even more irrelevant tangent, how do you refer to off screen in a book? Somthing happened out of text? Not in chapter? i dunno

  58. Ninja Lowk November 23, 2015 at 12:59 pm -      #158

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v06xTJaR7s

  59. Friendlysociopath November 23, 2015 at 1:07 pm -      #159

    Even more irrelevant tangent, how do you refer to off screen in a book?

    I’m not sure you can actually do that. For a book the “screen” is you- you can’t perceive something that you can’t perceive.

    In films you’re limited to what you can see.
    Like in Mortal Kombat Annihilation (Objectively horrible movie, I liked the first one though) one of the villains is defeated entirely offscreen. We know this because after the fight we’ve been watching the rest of the group shows up with the unconscious villain.

    In books you can see whatever you imagine because you’re only looking at words. Unless the book doesn’t mention something at all it would be considered “on screen”.
    If your book does have someone just pop up with an unconscious villain with no explanation or warning then I suppose you would still call it “off-screen” because the “screen” would be the events you’re viewing.
    You can’t be imagining something you’re given no input on.

  60. LadyRamkin November 23, 2015 at 1:10 pm -      #160

    “If your book does have someone just pop up with an unconscious villain with no explanation or warning then I suppose you would still call it “off-screen””

    That is basically what i mean, events that happen in the story that the reader is not aware of. Like Voldemort bonding with quirrell happened… off screen. I was just wondering if the was a literary term for it.

  61. pimpmage November 23, 2015 at 2:02 pm -      #161

    www.learner.org/interactives/literature/read/pov2.html

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