Shrike Vs Kain

Shrike Vs Kain

Suggested by Absolute Infinite

The Shrike (Hyperion Cantos) will go up against Kain (Legacy of Kain).

The battle takes place on a barren planet.

Who would win?

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101 Comments on "Shrike Vs Kain"

  1. Nsl98 October 17, 2015 at 12:09 am -      #1

    First, who the heck is Absolute Infinite?

    Second, Imma just sit back and watch this turn in to another multi page debacle of Kitten Lord vs BankGambling: Volume 4.

    Thirdly, Shrike speed blitzes.

  2. Monochrome October 17, 2015 at 12:13 am -      #2

    If I recall from the previous debates with the Shrike is that it was a Time-Traveling robot that wrecked everyone until some kind of power up or some armor was made that evened the battlefield.

    @Nsl98
    I doubt Kitten Lord can dance his shitty Jig this time for multiple pages. There’s no scene bullshit he can try and pull it’s book quotes…….Though I swear if he attempts to I’ll be more tempted to load my Novel’s main protagonist with more Anti-Kain Feats.

  3. Numinous One October 17, 2015 at 12:49 am -      #3

    You’re a terrible man OP, the Shrike is faster than The Flash on his best day, has infinite temporal clones, can BFR to the tree of pain, is super stabby and loves us very much.

    I wouldn’t touch this one with a ten foot pole, Kitty.

  4. Monochrome October 17, 2015 at 12:56 am -      #4

    @Numinous One

    Best description that describes The Shrike, have an Updoot for a job well done i.imgur.com/WWlBxF6.gif?noredirect

  5. OriginalA October 17, 2015 at 2:59 am -      #5

    It seems that everyone needs to be reminded of the one, true, immutable FACT:

















    DANTE SOLOS!

  6. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets October 17, 2015 at 5:57 am -      #6

    Faster than Flash? o.0

  7. Rookie October 17, 2015 at 6:01 am -      #7

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    “Faster than Flash? o.0”

    forums.spacebattles.com/threads/shrike-vs-flash.347131/
    www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/wally-west-vs-shrike-1521404/

  8. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 6:37 am -      #8

    @Numin

    “You’re a terrible man OP, the Shrike is faster than The Flash on his best day, has infinite temporal clones, can BFR to the tree of pain, is super stabby and loves us very much.”

    Ive heard a lot of love for other characters that have turned out to be rather weak sauce and over-hyped due to misread quotes or other such nonsense.

    First question, how does he beat Kain? an immortal that can reform from dematerlisation and is nigh indestructible?

    Would be interested in actual quotes for speed…

    “waits for the powerscaled feats to come up”

  9. Mea quidem sententia October 17, 2015 at 9:20 am -      #9

    @Kitten Lord
    You’ve been power scaling, too. So stop pretending you don’t do that.

  10. Rookie October 17, 2015 at 9:39 am -      #10

    Some feats for Shrike:

    Stomped Swiss Guard on planet and wiped fleet in space:

    “”We don’t know, sir,” answers Lempriere. “It was like the old days… Hegemony Force days when the jumptroops came in by farcaster portal, sire. I mean, thousands of armored… things… appeared, everywhere, at the same second, sir. I mean, the battle only lasted five minutes. There were thousands of them. And then they were gone.”

    De Soya is still struggling to hear this through the gathering darkness and the roaring in his ears, but the words make no sense. “Thousands? Of what? Gone where?”

    Gregorius steps forward and looks down at the father-captain. “Not thousands, sir. Just one. The Shrike.”

    “That’s a legend…” begins Lempriere.

    “Just the Shrike,” continues the huge black man, ignoring the troopship captain. “It killed most of the Swiss Guard and half the regular Pax troops on Equus, downed all of the Scorpion fighters, took two torchships of the line out of business, killed everyone aboard the C-three ship, left his calling card here, and was gone in under thirty seconds. Total. All the rest was our guys shooting at each other in panic. The Shrike.””

    Kassad can see lasers in slow motion with his suit:

    Kassad ducked as the laser beam crept past his shoulder, burning its way through the air like a slow fuse of ruby light. Kassad smelled ozone as it crackled past. Impossible. I’ve dodged a laser!

    ///

    He blinked, realizing that something was wrong with the image. Then it came to him: besides the thickness of the light and his enhanced perception of energy fields, nothing was moving. The Ouster troops, even those set in attitudes of motion, were as stiff as the toy soldiers he had played with as a boy in the Tharsis slums. The EM tanks were dug into their hull-down positions, but Kassad noticed that now even their acquisition radars – visible to him as concentric purple arcs – were motionless. He glanced skyward and saw some sort of large bird hanging in the sky, as unmoving as an insect frozen in amber. He passed a cloud of windblown dust hanging suspended, extended one chrome hand, and flicked spirals of particles to the ground.”

    He can’t see Shrike’s movements:

    “The Shrike stood between him and the tree…
    ///
    A second Shrike was emerging from the tomb called the Sphinx. Farther down the valley, a Shrike stepped from the entrance to the Jade Tomb. Harsh Light glinted from spikes and razorwire as another emerged from the Obelish, half a klick away. Kassad ignored them and turned back toward the tree and its protector. A hundred Shrikes stood between Kassad and the tree. He blinked, and a hundred more appeared to his left. He looked behind him, and a legion of Shrikes stood as impassively as sculptures on the cold dunes and melted boulders of the desert… there were thousands of Shrikes in the hills and valleys now. Talons clicked open in unison; light glinted on tens of thousands of scalpel shaped blades and thorns. Kassad ignored the others and ran toward the Shrike he thought was the first he had seen.”

    @Kitten Lord

    “First question, how does he beat Kain?”

    It will age him backwards to the point when Kain was a human. And that “aging” takes away memories, so it’s not that easy to counter since target not even realize that it’s been affected by something. Shrike is one of the few things in fiction who can ruin day of the immortals creatures.

  11. Amm0vamp1r3 October 17, 2015 at 9:56 am -      #11

    Or it could just take Kains head of and play keep away with it

  12. Mea quidem sententia October 17, 2015 at 10:07 am -      #12

    Or maybe it can go back in time when Kain was a human and kill him that way.

  13. Klondike Bar October 17, 2015 at 10:32 am -      #13

    When talking about dematerialisation is Kain turning into energy or something? I have been away recently and do not remember this feat.

  14. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 11:24 am -      #14

    @Mea

    “You’ve been power scaling, too. So stop pretending you don’t do that.”

    When?

    “Or maybe it can go back in time when Kain was a human and kill him that way.”

    First, BankGambling matches are in a locked time zone so he cannot do this, and if he tried, the LoK timezone is immutable, so him trying to appear/include himself would end him being erased from time most likely or failing each time.

    @Rookie

    “Stomped Swiss Guard on planet and wiped fleet in space:”

    I do not know what swiss guard are but the characers in your quote tlak as if that was a myth. how do we know this actually happened?

    “He can’t see Shrike’s movements:”

    Your quote does not say that. It said in the time it took him to blink there were more shrikes. Wrong quote?

    I am also not sure what sort of lasers they use in the fiction. A lot of fictions claim things are lasers when in reality they seem slow or look like SW blasters.

    “t will age him backwards to the point when Kain was a human. And that “aging” takes away memories, so it’s not that easy to counter since target not even realize that it’s been affected by something. Shrike is one of the few things in fiction who can ruin day of the immortals creatures.”

    Can I see a quote of this in action? Could it work if as far as the BankGambling timeline is concernered Kain was never a human? he starts the match as a vampire lord and that is all the match knows, and timeline includes.

    I read some of your threads you posted. And it turns out the shrike has been beaten and finally destroyed.

    Its also got stuck in sand and shot by beams. So its obviously not untouchable. It has been hit and destroyed.

  15. Friendlysociopath October 17, 2015 at 11:41 am -      #15

    When talking about dematerialisation is Kain turning into energy or something?

    Either Kitten’s talking about Kain turning into mist to escape physical injury.
    Or he’s talking about Kain’s game mechanic of turning into a swarm of bats and going back to the previous checkpoint.

    the LoK timezone is immutable

    Would this be before or after Raziel literally changed the timeline?

  16. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 11:43 am -      #16

    The game mechanic is the checkpoint system but the manuels do point out the fact that both kain and Raziel are immortal, cannot be killed and finally dematerlize and reform if injured.

    Which I am not sure if Shrike can do so far until I have feats on what hes been able to damage and indeed, how durable he is.

  17. Amm0vamp1r3 October 17, 2015 at 11:44 am -      #17

    Either way I’m pretty sure this is an unholy stomp and thusly draws an end to the Kain era of BankGambling matches for a while because this is just Brutal lol

  18. Klondike Bar October 17, 2015 at 11:48 am -      #18

    Hmm. How do either of those mean that he can return from being destroyed? While they can both be described as immaterial that does not mean they can not be destroyed.

  19. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 11:53 am -      #19

    @Ammo


    “Either way I’m pretty sure this is an unholy stomp and thusly draws an end to the Kain era of BankGambling matches for a while because this is just Brutal lol”

    Ill probably end the Kain era by just leaving. Most of these matches are just trolling.

    And Admin seems to be supporting it. I have a thick skin and do not mind being trolled but if the Admin hides in the shadows giving his mob weapons to use against their unstoppable foe ime essentially being trolled by the sites controller…

    Nobody can stand a bias judge.

  20. Friendlysociopath October 17, 2015 at 11:54 am -      #20

    First, BankGambling matches are in a locked time zone so he cannot do this

    No, the locked time zone is so the Shrike cannot travel back in time. There is nothing preventing it from aging Kain either forwards or backwards.

    Look at it like this:
    You have the timeline of the match A-B-C
    And the ages of the associated fighters 1-2-3
    It is against BankGambling rules to go further back than ‘A’ which is the start of the match.
    It is not against BankGambling rules to age the enemy past ‘1’.
    Age =/= Timeline

    If I’m wrong I’m sure an older member will set me straight.

  21. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 12:00 pm -      #21

    Guys… for the love of all that is good, stop fucking feeding this troll. He is literally retarded, we have gone over this a million fucking times. Just stop commenting and responding.

    And to you OP, whoever you are, shame on you. You are just as much to blame for the infinite wank that comes to existence every time kain is necroed.

    Friendly, your not wrong. There is a character in OP that can change people’s age and doesn’t mess with time wimy bs.

  22. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 12:05 pm -      #22

    @Friendly

    The only age Kain has ever been as far as the BankGambling timeline is concerned is thousands, if not tens of thousands. W/e his current age is.

    Shrike has notihng to turn him back to untless their hours into the match and he wants Kain to forget.

    Course, he got destroyed so he must not do this to all his opponents, or its not easy to do. He also struggled in sand so I am doubting he is as overpowered as he is being claimed to be.

  23. Soulerous October 17, 2015 at 12:45 pm -      #23

    If a character has the power to reverse-age people, making them grow younger, that would be valid and not the same as traveling back in time to before the BankGambling timeline merger.
    ~
    But the Shrike can’t do that, can it?

  24. Rookie October 17, 2015 at 1:03 pm -      #24

    @Soulerous

    “If a character has the power to reverse-age people, making them grow younger, that would be valid and not the same as traveling back in time to before the BankGambling timeline merger.
    ~
    But the Shrike can’t do that, can it?”

    He can.

    “Something sharp and infinitely cold grasped her wrist.

    Rachel screamed at last.
    ///
    “Your daughter was in a coma,” said the doctor. “It was not possible to put her into cryogenic fugue in that condition.…”

    “So she came through quantum leap without fugue?” demanded Sol. He had read about the psychological damage to travelers who had experienced the Hawking effect directly.

    “No, no,” soothed Singh….
    ///
    ““No,” said Singh, “in fact your daughter’s illness has no name. The medics here are calling it Merlin’s sickness. You see … your daughter is aging at a normal rate … but as far as we can tell, she is aging backward.”

    Sarai pulled away from the group and stared at Singh as if the doctor were insane. “I want to see my daughter,” she said, quietly but very firmly. “I want to see Rachel now.””
    ///
    ““Yes,” said Sol and handed Rachel her comlog. “Here, kiddo. Listen to this.” He left the room.

    Rachel touched the diskey and blinked as her own voice began talking to her. “OK, Rache, you just woke up. You’re confused. You don’t know how you got here. Well, something’s happened to you, kid. Listen up.

    “I’m recording this on the twelfth day of Tenmonth, year 457 of the Hegira, A.D. 2739 old reckoning. Yes, I know that’s half a standard year from the last thing you remember. Listen.

    “Something happened in the Sphinx. You got caught up in the time tide. It changed you. You’re aging backward, as dumb as that sounds. Your body’s getting younger every minute, although that’s not the important part right now. When you sleep … when we sleep … you forget. You lose another day from your memory before the accident, and you lose everything since. Don’t ask me why. The doctors don’t know. The experts don’t know. If you want an analogy, just think of a tapeworm virus … one of the old kind … that’s chewing up the data in your comlog … backward from the last entry.

  25. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 1:07 pm -      #25

    If the person retains all memories after being de aged, that’s a good sign that it lines up with BankGambling rules. It shows the actual person wasnt sent back, just his body was biologically changed.

  26. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 1:09 pm -      #26

    @Rookie

    So its really slow? And you have to sleep to lose memories?

    So assuming it works on an undead immortal in the first place its useless in a BankGambling match.

    “He can.”

    Shrike was not mentioned in your quotes. Something about the hawking effect…

  27. Rookie October 17, 2015 at 1:12 pm -      #27

    @Kitten Lord

    “Shrike was not mentioned in your quotes. Something about the hawking effect…”

    Quote about someone who grabbed her and after that she started aging back. It was Shrike.

    “So its really slow? And you have to sleep to lose memories? ”

    It works once in thirty hours. No one knows why.

    @pimpmage

    “If the person retains all memories after being de aged, that’s a good sign that it lines up with BankGambling rules. ”

    Not all memories though.

  28. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 1:17 pm -      #28

    That actually makes perfect sense. It’s purely biological. The brain is losing the changes that happened to it. You know how your body replaces is mass over time? Same thing with the brain. Someone ages backwards, the brain becomes different than before, effectively erasing memories? Right?

    If a person retains some memories of the time before being de aged, that’s 100% legal imo.

  29. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 1:19 pm -      #29

    @Rookie

    “Quote about someone who grabbed her and after that she started aging back. It was Shrike.”

    How do you know he was the cause? Can you quote it was specifally because of Shrike? bear in mind ive not read the book and I want to know for a fact Shrike grapped her and then she started ageing because he grapped her.

    Is there explanation why? it is it magic? scientfiic etc?

    If its magic, Kain has resistance, if its scientific or biological or something, then hes an undead raised by mysterical/supernatural means, it may do nothing to him.

  30. Friendlysociopath October 17, 2015 at 1:21 pm -      #30

    So assuming it works on an undead immortal in the first place

    We actually know it does, Raziel’s paradox changes Kain’s memories, he is not immune to the effects of time.

    That said, it is gonna take a long-ass time for Kain to revert back to anything at that rate.

  31. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 1:22 pm -      #31

    Being undead changes nothing kitten. Shut the fuck up. Decay reverses itself, biological changes gained would be lost. Like vampirism.

  32. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 1:27 pm -      #32

    @Pimp

    “Being undead changes nothing kitten”

    No quote shown so far proves that the dead can be effected, or how it even works. let alone whether or not a dead body would become younger or w/e…

    @Friendly

    “Raziel’s paradox changes Kain’s memories, he is not immune to the effects of time.”

    It does not change them, he gains new ones. And actually, from a temporal perspective legacy of Kain is immutable, so Kain never got changed, he was always going to gain those memories at what we percieve at that point in time.

    Not that this has anything to do with this power.

    Kain is thousands of years old, so this power is useless. Assuming it works at all.

    What is shrike made of? does it have a mind? possibly mind rpae would work, a soul?

    Also fun fact, Kain cannot be transformed, twisted or reality warped so that may make him immune as well. If it is biological, he transforms into mist and is no longer his typical physical undead form anyway and reforms again….so….useless

  33. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 1:32 pm -      #33

    Literally nobody believes your retarded wank kitten. Why do you continue to attempt to twist words? You’re fucking useless. I will NOT be suckered into debating interpretations of feats with a retard.

  34. Ninja Lowk October 17, 2015 at 1:34 pm -      #34

    @Kitten
    Not sure if I’ve asked this already but-
    Just out of curiosity, who do you think could beat Kain fairly?

  35. Rookie October 17, 2015 at 1:35 pm -      #35

    @Kitten Lord

    “What is shrike made of?”

    Love. I am not kidding.

    “does it have a mind?”

    Yes.

    “possibly mind rpae would work, a soul?”

    Shrike is AI, robot and avatar of UI, god of machines.

    “Is there explanation why? it is it magic? scientfiic etc? ”

    Shrike have control over time. There is nothing more about it, but reality warping and time control is common for Hyperion.

    “How do you know he was the cause? Can you quote it was specifally because of Shrike? ”

    That was point of first two books. Actually all four. It was because of Shrike’s manipulations events moved. He needed Sol on Hyperion, so he did this to his dauther in order for Sol to arrive on Hyperion out of desperation.

  36. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 1:39 pm -      #36

    @Lowk

    “Just out of curiosity, who do you think could beat Kain fairly?”

    I do not know, his hax makes a lot of opponents weak which forces people to put overly hax opponents against him, like I imagine shrike is to kill him.

    @Rookie

    “Shrike is AI, robot and avatar of UI, god of machines.”

    Is he actually a robot? I read on the wiki hes made out of DNA and thoughts from a person or something.

    ” He needed Sol on Hyperion, so he did this to his dauther in order for Sol to arrive on Hyperion out of desperation.”

    Fair enough.

    ” There is nothing more about it, but reality warping and time control is common for Hyperion.”

    I see, so its not well documented. interested note, for a being who travels time and what not, kain would be a bitch since he is invisible across time, even to a being who is across time like Shrike apparently is in some form or another.

  37. Alpha or Omega October 17, 2015 at 1:52 pm -      #37

    @Kitten Lord
    “Ill probably end the Kain era by just leaving. Most of these matches are just trolling.

    And Admin seems to be supporting it. I have a thick skin and do not mind being trolled but if the Admin hides in the shadows giving his mob weapons to use against their unstoppable foe ime essentially being trolled by the sites controller…

    Nobody can stand a bias judge.”
    /
    Except it’s not admin supporting it.
    All he does is post suggested matches.
    There are matches where he doesn’t know about any characters and he gives it to Rookie to make.
    One such match was Lucifer Morningstar vs Richard Rahl.
    The admin loves Sword of Truth and Richard Rahl but didn’t know anything about Lucifer Morningstar and he posted that match himself.
    Lucifer Morningstar completely stomped Richard Rahl.
    /
    The admin has also said that if you don’t want stomp matches on this site, then don’t suggest stomp matches, or it could get posted.

  38. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 1:58 pm -      #38

    If hes reading the site at all though he must know whats going on and why Kain matches are being posted.

    Hes been making rules that specifically target me in another thread as well. I get the feeling he must be aware about this trolling of Kain because ive told him about it via email and other people have emailed him about the kain threads as well…

    Ive recently emailed him again so ill see what he says.

    Rookie is posting some of these things and he must read some of these matches, he knows some of them are made to be stomp matches. He must have a rough idea of Kain by now and he seems to know srhike so if its a stomp match then clearly its a waste of time.

  39. Alpha or Omega October 17, 2015 at 2:23 pm -      #39

    “If hes reading the site at all though he must know whats going on and why Kain matches are being posted.”
    /
    Then the same could be said for the Percy matches and the Dresden matches that were being posted frequently, yet Percy and Dresden will occasionally have a match where they stomp or get stomped.
    /
    “Hes been making rules that specifically target me in another thread as well. I get the feeling he must be aware about this trolling of Kain because ive told him about it via email and other people have emailed him about the kain threads as well…”
    /
    What rules are those?
    Even if he did make those rules, how do they target you and not other people as well?
    /
    “Rookie is posting some of these things and he must read some of these matches, he knows some of them are made to be stomp matches. He must have a rough idea of Kain by now and he seems to know srhike so if its a stomp match then clearly its a waste of time.”
    /
    And tons of Kain matches means he knows Kain because why?
    Kratos also had a ton of matches where he lost horribly or won horribly.
    This was caused by tons of Kratos vs. suggestions,
    How do you know if he knows Shrike?

  40. Klondike Bar October 17, 2015 at 2:27 pm -      #40

    Kitten. Claiming that the LoK timeline is immutable is a no limits fallacy. Nothing in LoK can change it but that does not mean it can not be changed. For example If a true omnipotent went to LoK and said that the timeline changed it would change. Claiming immunity is also a NLF. Just because Nobody in Lok can see Kain through time or reality warp him does not mean that nobody else can either.

    Also I have been looking at the obelisk feat for while now and I think that feat can not be quantified the way that it has been.

    I asked a physics professor how to calculate that sort of thing and he gave me a big explanation that I will try to sum up and remember here.

    He said that to tip the Obelisk Raziel would not be using a constant force as was agreed upon. Now to find the amount of force used at any given point you need to use a derivative tangent line to figure it out. The problem that he told me about is that from a video like that we can not actually find that sort of equation out.

    The graph would have to end up with x amount of force in y amount of time but many different graphs can end up reaching the same number at a different rate.

    He explained it like this. Raziel could have used the most force at the beginning to in a way throw the obelisk up and used his hands to balance it. Thus giving it a very large amount of energy in the beginning but using far less in total. Vice-versa he could have applied the same amount of energy the whole time thus giving him a good feat of strength.

    He also said that it is important to know the obelisks center of mass and when it would be ready to tip over but I am not sure enough about that level of physics to quite understand.

    Another important thing to consider is how sturdy is the ground it is standing on? If it is extremely dusty and has no real foundation then I could push it over by leaning on it. I am just giving you things to consider.

    P.S. What do you think about Zeratul vs Kain. It sounds stompy for Kain but Zeratul has previously killed things that can infinitely reincarnate such as the cerebrates. He also has mental bariers and a cloak that might help him out against some of Kain’s hax.

  41. Soulerous October 17, 2015 at 2:37 pm -      #41

    Personally, I suspect Rookie just likes to entertain himself with this stuff.
    Then again, maybe there’s just not enough suggested matches to exclude the stomps.
    ~
    @Klondike Bar- The best way to determine the strength used to tip the obelisk would probably be to examine just the initial lift before the shift in the obelisk’s center of gravity, as that would require the most force.
    ~
    Also, I think Zeratul would most likely lose to Kain, and also that more Kain matches is a bad idea.

  42. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 2:38 pm -      #42

    @Alpha

    “Then the same could be said for the Percy matches and the Dresden matches ”

    I do not know, did 13or more people start posting Admin about those dresden and percy matches? Did they have rules suddenly coming into being based around the events of those matches?

    “Even if he did make those rules, how do they target you and not other people as well?”

    They specifcally come about because Soul is upset in his argument with me in the other thread. It was made as a specific counter to me. Two new rules in like, a month or less come out for the same thread.

    Like I said, he must be aware.

    @Klond

    “Kitten. Claiming that the LoK timeline is immutable is a no limits fallacy.”

    A no limit fallacy is when something unknown is being pushed to be great, but developers have specifcally said the universe is immutable

    Just like writers can say their characters are omnipotent or unkillable for example you said;

    “f a true omnipotent went to LoK and said that the timeline changed it would change”

    omnipotence itself should be a no limit fallacy if your saying it can overturn everything from other universes, even those universes whos rules are outlined by world of god…you know, an actual person who writes said universes rules just like someone wrote the omnipotent.

    “Just because Nobody in Lok can see Kain through time or reality warp him does not mean that nobody else can either.”

    Someone would need a feat that proves they can percive beings who cannot be seen by other time percieving beings.

    “I am just giving you things to consider.”

    Fair enough. Thanks. Some of those things are impossible to know, thus is the problem with games and fiction in general, you cannot actually experiment with all feats.

    “P.S. What do you think about Zeratul vs Kain. It sounds stompy for Kain but Zeratul has previously killed things that can infinitely reincarnate such as the cerebrates. He also has mental bariers and a cloak that might help him out against some of Kain’s hax.”

    Was that not because the cerebrates being killed by warp blades blocked the psionic link between the cerebrate and the overmind?

    Zeratal has some tools more than most but I think the same would happen to him in a fight with Kain that happened with Kerrigan. All she did was essnetially hold him in the air with something a little like TK and he was stuck until he had to escape.

  43. Klondike Bar October 17, 2015 at 3:00 pm -      #43

    “A no limit fallacy is when something unknown is being pushed to be great, but developers have specifcally said the universe is immutable”

    Your right there are no real omnipotents in any fiction according to BankGambling rules I was trying to make a point. They are saying it is immutable but that would require the universe to be able to solo other universes.

    let me try a different aproach. If I as a developer of a game say that my rhinosaura can not be turned from its path or stopped does that suddenly mean that mean that it can bulldoze Kain and punch right through adamantium? No I would first need to give my universe feats to put it on par with those universes.

    Wog statments only apply to their own universe except through elemental compatibility witch is when you have to compare how powerful each universe is compared to the other.

    “Was that not because the cerebrates being killed by warp blades blocked the psionic link between the cerebrate and the overmind?”

    It had something to do with using Void energy to trap their soul preventing it from reincarnating later. The same with the over mind. I really just want some sort of match where Kain fights someone who can maybe beat him but does not stomp him. Maybe Tassadar then right before he dies.

    Soulerous

    Sure that could be true but what equation would we use? Both .5*Logbase10(100) and Logbase100(100) equal one but they are not the same when you plug in one-thousand. Plus the Derivative would be different for each equation no matter what. That is the biggest problem with the fulcrum.

  44. Mea quidem sententia October 17, 2015 at 3:09 pm -      #44

    @Kitten Lord
    Your example of power scaling is that Raziel can pierce iron cubes. Raziel failed to cut Kain’s skin. Therefore, Kain’s skin is that durable. Although, you’re putting Kain’s pressure resistance at 148 TPa.

    Can you show me where FP matches are locked in a time zone? If specific characters can have free will, I don’t see why the Shrike can’t, especially if the Shrike inherently have free will.

  45. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 3:25 pm -      #45

    @Mea

    ” Therefore, Kain’s skin is that durable.”

    Thats an actual feat. Kain actually tanked a hit, so he has afeat of tanking a hit.

    @Klond

    ” If I as a developer of a game say that my rhinosaura can not be turned from its path or stopped does that suddenly mean that mean that it can bulldoze Kain and punch right through adamantium? No I would first need to give my universe feats to put it on par with those universes.”

    If you explicitly said without hyperbole that it could break through anything yes it could, course, your example is easy to dismiss as hyperbole.

    The rules and laws of a universe itself, not so much. Especially when its been show nto be thus.

    “Maybe Tassadar then right before he dies.”

    Tassadar has few feats though doesnt he? I mean, at least Zeratul has cutscenes but Tassader sacrificed himself was not seen again.

    Ive read a few of the Starcraft novels but none that talk much of Tassadar and what he can do. Kerrigan may be a better choice. Her Tk is more powerful than his, she has regen etc…

    Like I said, kain is impossible to place without stomping him or otherwise. or almost impossible. You can get powerhouses like DBZ who are just not suited for dealing with supernatural beings like Kain or you can get someone like Raven or whoever it was teamed with Gwen tennysen who seemed to have just as much hax and counters kain for everything.

    Kain is what you get when you think of a list of cool powers and give it to a single, nigh indestructable immortal.

  46. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable October 17, 2015 at 3:35 pm -      #46

    @Kitten
    “Kain is what you get when you think of a list of cool powers and give it to a single, nigh indestructable immortal.”
    – Kain is a loser. He has none of those powers besides what you, and only you, ever, wank for him. That’s it, guy.
    ==
    @Mea
    “Can you show me where FP matches are locked in a time zone?”
    – Its rule… 4. It prevents time manipulators from winning just because they can manipulate time. Like, if you had all of Star Wars vs something like the Vex from Destiny and ignored rule 4, the Vex would stomp because they could just go back to whatever starting point the SW universe had and stop that from happening or some time bullshit like that.

  47. Friendlysociopath October 17, 2015 at 3:40 pm -      #47

    Thats an actual feat. Kain actually tanked a hit, so he has a feat of tanking a hit.

    But not the same hit; which is where you’ve started powerscaling. In fact, when Raziel struck Kain exactly the same as he did with the block- he succeeded and pierced straight through skin and bone. Kain can’t “tank” that hit from Raziel.
    Where as the other time he was simply slapping and kicking Kain, attacks that in no way pierce Kain in the same fashion.

    Personally, I suspect Rookie just likes to entertain himself with this stuff.
    Then again, maybe there’s just not enough suggested matches to exclude the stomps.


    A bit of both, Rookie and I talked about it a bit once and we both decided we don’t really get to decide which matches go up and which ones don’t.

    Kain is what you get when you think of a list of cool powers and give it to a single, nigh indestructable immortal.

    Kain is what you get when one person refuses to accept any other views about the character that go against his own- and his own are above what the character is capable of.

  48. Ninja Lowk October 17, 2015 at 3:44 pm -      #48

    “They specifcally come about because Soul is upset in his argument with me in the other thread.”

    I’m surprised it wasn’t made earlier. You’re part of a line of overly stubborn debaters on BankGambling and you’re one of the nicer ones.

  49. Ninja Lowk October 17, 2015 at 3:51 pm -      #49

    “It prevents time manipulators from winning just because they can manipulate time.”

    Specifically to prevent time travelling backwards past the start of the match. You can still manipulate it as long as you don’t do something like that.

  50. Soulerous October 17, 2015 at 3:55 pm -      #50

    A bit of both, Rookie and I talked about it a bit once and we both decided we don’t really get to decide which matches go up and which ones don’t.
    -I keep forgetting that you can also post matches.
    ~
    Where as the other time he was simply slapping and kicking Kain, attacks that in no way pierce Kain in the same fashion.
    -Oh look, another opportunity for Rule 13 to shine it’s scouring light. We’ve been over this a bunch of times, and Kitten doesn’t seem to understand that we don’t know how hard Raziel slapped Kain, or that there’s no proof Kain’s skin was inexplicably weakened when he got impaled by Raziel.
    ~
    If he doesn’t start acknowledging this…

  51. Amm0vamp1r3 October 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm -      #51

    When I think of:

    Kain is what you get when you think of a list of cool powers and give it to a single, nigh indestructable immortal.

    Something like that I tend to think more of Superman, that guy has an answer for almost everything. And if he doesn’t have an answer for it, he has a friend that does

  52. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 4:11 pm -      #52

    @Soul

    ” Kitten doesn’t seem to understand that we don’t know how hard Raziel slapped Kain”

    You do not seem to understand that someone making an effortless action on the blocks means that when he does an enraged action on kain it has to be “at least” as much as the effortless action as a massive lowball.

  53. Friendlysociopath October 17, 2015 at 4:28 pm -      #53

    I keep forgetting that you can also post matches.

    I consider myself the back-up Rookie.

  54. Soulerous October 17, 2015 at 4:46 pm -      #54

    You do not seem to understand that someone making an effortless action on the blocks means that when he does an enraged action on kain it has to be “at least” as much as the effortless action as a massive lowball.
    ~
    Anger does not override Raziel’s ability to choose how much force to use in his actions. So no, however much strength is required for Raziel to move blocks, there is no guarantee that he used that much or more when he swiped at Kain. Especially since he uses one arm for each of those swipes, and two arms when moving blocks.

  55. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 5:17 pm -      #55

    I’m so fucking glad that YET ANOTHER match devolves into fucking kain feat discussions where is completely fucking irrelevant. Im so proud of you guys.

  56. Mea quidem sententia October 17, 2015 at 5:20 pm -      #56

    @pimpmage
    Hahaha! I would try, but there’s no point. I know you’re pissed off with matches between Kain and whoever else.

  57. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 5:29 pm -      #57

    Make a kain vs kain match to trap kitten away for eternity. He would debate against himself in perpetuality.

  58. Soulerous October 17, 2015 at 5:35 pm -      #58

    Make a kain vs kain match
    -Brilliant!

  59. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 5:41 pm -      #59

    Oooo, the astute vs kain….

  60. Mea quidem sententia October 17, 2015 at 5:52 pm -      #60

    How about Cain vs. Kain?

    “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

    That way, if Cain dies, vengeance will befall Kain sevenfold, for “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says Yahweh.

    That’s right, I just went biblical.

  61. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 6:17 pm -      #61

    Ciaphas Cain and his buddy vs kain vs cain.

    Actually, come to think of it, Ciaphas and his buddy would kick kains ass if EC worked in my favor. And both of those guys are just bog standard humans.

  62. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 6:42 pm -      #62

    @Soul

    “Anger does not override Raziel’s ability to choose how much force to use in his actions.”

    It does just as much as anger can do so in humans. People do not always use exact force, and anger and rage, as well as actually attacking someone for putting you through torment and killing your children would certainly lead to you outputting more than effortless force.

    I told you this before, you cannot output less force than effortless. And you would not in a situation like this. Your just playing silly buggers again as usual.

    “Especially since he uses one arm for each of those swipes, and two arms when moving blocks.”

    He uses only one arm at a time to impale the blocks where most of the feat comes from. He also uses his whole body when striking at Kain rather than just his upper torso and thighs as he does with the blocks.

    And most importantly, he is not in a casual mood with effortless intent.

    @Pimp

    ” come to think of it, Ciaphas and his buddy would kick kains ass”

    Ask Soulerous to proposition a new rule where bog standard humans can kill Kain. It would go through no doubt…….

  63. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 6:51 pm -      #63

    You must have never heard of ciaphas and his buddy before. How presumptuous of you.

  64. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 7:10 pm -      #64

    What was presumptuous?

  65. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 7:14 pm -      #65

    You thinking that these two humans can’t kill kain.

  66. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 7:21 pm -      #66

    Course they cant, hes immortal. You cannot kill that which cannot be killed. Its a paradox. What are they space mareenz?

  67. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 7:25 pm -      #67

    They are just humans, and kain isn’t immortal

    Besides, incapacitation would win the match either way.

  68. Klondike Bar October 17, 2015 at 7:26 pm -      #68

    pimp. That was a bit arsewholeish. Sure Kain debates might get on your nerves and Kitten is one of the main reasons they keep going you should not act like that. Kitten can be very reasonable if you do not get aggressive.

    Kitten. I did not want to do Queen of blades cause in all honesty I think she could stomp. Also because only Dark templar psionics is confirmed to kill the unkillable.

  69. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 7:31 pm -      #69

    Queen of blades vs ciaphas and jurgen? I will pay to have that posted.

  70. Kitten Lord October 17, 2015 at 7:47 pm -      #70

    @Pimp

    “They are just humans, and kain isn’t immortal”

    Yes he is, the game says as much, and kind of shows it, and the lead dev implies it on top of that. Also cant see how bog standard humans can be any more threat to kain than your average Z fighter honestly! 😀

    @Klond

    “Kitten. I did not want to do Queen of blades cause in all honesty I think she could stomp. ”

    Probably, that said what are her best feats? I know in-game she can swatt battlecruisers but in the cutscenes she does not come across as powerful. Although she has no trouble slicing through Terran machines which seem to struggle hurting her in return.

    She can likely pierce him with her “blades”

    “Also because only Dark templar psionics is confirmed to kill the unkillable.”

    They had to hit it though right? They have to slice up the cerebrate. Which means getting close. Its never easy getting close and hitting a teleporter who can go insubstantial at will and TK you.

  71. Soulerous October 17, 2015 at 8:04 pm -      #71

    It does just as much as anger can do so in humans.
    -Only in special and extreme situations do people actually lose control; merely being angry does not remove Raziel’s ability to control his body and strength. But whatever. You won’t accept this, and I won’t accept your answer. No use arguing further.

  72. pimpmage October 17, 2015 at 8:12 pm -      #72

    “Yes he is, the game says as much, and kind of shows it, and the lead dev implies it on top of that. Also cant see how bog standard humans can be any more threat to kain than your average Z fighter honestly! 😀”

    One of the two guys is a psychic blank. Which means warp power of any sort is completely nullified within like 20 yards of him. And he has a melta-gun as part of his standard loadout. Which slags tanks. The other guy, just has a chainsword and a laspistol. Keep in mind, las weapons are capable of blowing off limbs and exploding heads.

    Cain and Jurgen vs queen of blades and kain could be a match.

  73. Amm0vamp1r3 October 17, 2015 at 8:21 pm -      #73

    I thought we were done with Kain matches, at least for a while

  74. Klondike Bar October 17, 2015 at 8:49 pm -      #74

    They had to hit it though right? They have to slice up the cerebrate. Which means getting close. Its never easy getting close and hitting a teleporter who can go insubstantial at will and TK you.

    The hitting was to kill its body and the only way for a warp blade to exist is through Dark templar energy. So yea the easiest way to kill them is with a warp blade though in theory any other form of void energy would work.

    I myself have not read any books for a long time and no longer have most of the hard copies. Feats that weaker human psionics such as Nova can do include creating a psionic shield around herself and charging up psychic nukes that destroy entire hives. Stopping hypersonic gauss spikes and stuff like that.

  75. mack006 October 17, 2015 at 10:45 pm -      #75

    Kain got defeated…
    BY THE POWER OF LOVE!

    Just like what Dumbledore said, love is the greatest weapon against the darkness!

  76. hellboy147 October 18, 2015 at 12:06 am -      #76

    “average Z fighter”

    But we all know average Z fighter is atleast a planet buster except you.

  77. Kitten Lord October 18, 2015 at 6:28 am -      #77

    @Soul

    “. But whatever. You won’t accept this”

    Of course not. Its absurd to suggest Raziel being enraged and trying to kill someone who put him through what he did would somehow hit with less force than he does without using any effort, when we can see the effort.

    This is why the community guidelines talk of common sense being used Soul, check them. Ill link if you like.

    @Pimp

    “. And he has a melta-gun as part of his standard loadout. Which slags tanks. The other guy, just has a chainsword and a laspistol. Keep in mind, las weapons are capable of blowing off limbs and exploding heads.”

    It would never be a match because unless I am mistaken, from what I have read Melta guns, infantry held ones are not that long ranged, and las pistols are like the bog standard infantry weapon, their essentially what you give a guy if he cannot use a bolter or heavy weaponry.

    I cannot see this working against two people who can essentially TK, are both faster than their opponents and what not.

  78. pimpmage October 18, 2015 at 7:39 am -      #78

    “I cannot see this working against two people who can essentially TK, are both faster than their opponents and what not.”

    If EC works favorably, Neither kain nor queen of blades would be able to tk them because of ciaphas’s pal Jurgen’s psychic blankness. Both QOB and kain would have to cqc them, and they would get slagged by the meltagun. Oh, and ciaphas is a master swordsman who was able to fend off a world eater space marine for a short while, till his pal jurgen 1-shot the guy with his meltagun.

  79. Soulerous October 18, 2015 at 8:04 am -      #79

    This is why the community guidelines talk of common sense being used Soul, check them.
    ~
    That isn’t why. You’ve mentioned the common sense guideline many times. I’d just like to let you know that it means common sense in regards to overall participation, not to the logic in arguments, as you seem to keep implying.
    ~
    That’s why it says “Common Sense: Being rude, being self-promotional, not advancing an argument by repeatedly raising the same points – these are just some examples where common sense should tell a person if they’re not contributing in a valuable way.”

  80. Kitten Lord October 19, 2015 at 3:42 am -      #80

    It specifically mentions arguments. So clearly not using common sense while arguing is included. Why do you argue against that anyway? so your fine with not using common sense if your not told to do so? I thought you hated playing silly buggers or is it just the term you hate?

  81. LadyRamkin October 19, 2015 at 10:59 am -      #81

    “I’m sure an older member will set me straight.”

    …. who is the oldest BankGamblingr that is still going? Just out of curiosity.

  82. LadyRamkin October 19, 2015 at 11:00 am -      #82

    “I’m sure an older member will set me straight.”

    …. who is the oldest BankGamblingr that is still going? Just out of curiosity. And how old are they in BankGambling years.

  83. Klondike Bar October 19, 2015 at 12:14 pm -      #83

    I think that as of now Commander Cross is one of the oldest out there. I have no idea how long I lurked here but he was there for all of it iirc.

  84. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets October 19, 2015 at 12:32 pm -      #84

    TheSorrow might be older…Aelfinn too…?

  85. Friendlysociopath October 19, 2015 at 12:40 pm -      #85

    Cross is ancient yes; he’s the only member who has 5 digits worth of comments, nobody else is even close.
    To put it into perspective, Cross has 2x,xxx comments. Nobody currently running around even has 1x,xxx.

    So unless Cross is just talkative as hell, and to be fair- he is, he’s likely just been around a long time.

  86. Soulerous October 19, 2015 at 12:41 pm -      #86

    I wouldn’t call Commander Cross one of the oldest. Myself and Aelfinn (if I recall correctly) both joined in 2010. TheSorrow joined either then or in 2009. There are others who are older, but I’m not sure by how much. OriginalA, Sauroposeidon, Lowk and Hermit, for example. They pre-date me.
    ~
    @KL- It mentions not advancing the arguments. It isn’t something to be cited when you think your opponent’s arguments don’t make sense. It’s common sense about how you participate, not what you argue.
    I find both the sound of the phrase and your use of it regarding me to be ludicrous. When I argue with you, I am not playing games.

  87. Klondike Bar October 19, 2015 at 12:44 pm -      #87

    woops. Got comments mixed up with dates. Now I remember why I thought Commander Cross was the oldest.

  88. Soulerous October 19, 2015 at 12:56 pm -      #88

    So unless Cross is just talkative as hell, and to be fair- he is, he’s likely just been around a long time.
    ~
    There was a time when his posting frequency would have shamed the flow rate of Niagara Falls. I believe he joined in 2011.

  89. pimpmage October 19, 2015 at 1:17 pm -      #89

    You can look at the site dashboard to see people’s comment numbers. I am sitting at 3,598, Sauro is 7416, Soul is 3093.

  90. LadyRamkin October 19, 2015 at 1:29 pm -      #90

    We have a dashboard???

  91. LadyRamkin October 19, 2015 at 1:30 pm -      #91

    Cool, i have 2144 comments

  92. LadyRamkin October 19, 2015 at 1:31 pm -      #92

    2145

  93. LadyRamkin October 19, 2015 at 1:31 pm -      #93

    2146

  94. LadyRamkin October 19, 2015 at 1:32 pm -      #94

    2147………….

    I’ll stop now.

    …………………….2148

  95. Kitten Lord October 19, 2015 at 1:52 pm -      #95

    @Soul

    ” It isn’t something to be cited when you think your opponent’s arguments don’t make sense.”

    More when a person is not using common sense. Not just their argument.

  96. Rorschach October 19, 2015 at 2:47 pm -      #96

    2010, reporting for duty.
    I mean, that’s when I started posting comments. I was much more active in my early days. I haven’t been using the site much at all anymore, but I do like to watch over it. Read a new and interesting debate or two. See how the Pile is doing.
    @Soulerous comment #86
    Is that really all who’s left? Well, it’s good to see so many. I was wondering how many were left. There are probably more that watch over as well. At least, I like to think so.

  97. Soulerous October 19, 2015 at 2:54 pm -      #97

    Is that really all who’s left?
    -Nah, there’s more, but I can’t keep track of everyone. A lot of them lurk.

  98. Rorschach October 19, 2015 at 3:05 pm -      #98

    “Nah, there’s more, but I can’t keep track of everyone. A lot of them lurk.”
    Even better. In a way, we are the silent guardians. Watchful protectors. Dark… Knights? Yeah, why not.

  99. GrandMaster October 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm -      #99

    I know it’s against the idea of free speech and what not, but can’t we just ban this guy? He’s done nothing but take away from the site and cause people to react negatively.

  100. pimpmage October 20, 2015 at 5:29 pm -      #100

    He may be an idiot grandmaster, maybe even mentally deficient. But he is Our mentally deficient idiot.

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