Percy Jackson Vs Ganondorf

Percy Jackson Vs Ganondorf

Suggested by Myrmidon

Ganondorf  (Legend of Zelda) will go up against Percy Jackson (book version).

The mighty King of Evil finds himself arriving in modern day New York through a dimensional rift.

Percy Jackson sees a horde of fleeing civilians and goes to investigate, where he finds himself face to face with Ganondorf himself.  Drawing his sword, Percy prepares for battle while Ganon merely laughs.

Ganondorf is composite of all his appearances in the Legend of Zelda games.  Percy is book version.

Who will win?

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160 Comments on "Percy Jackson Vs Ganondorf"

  1. OriginalA October 11, 2015 at 5:49 pm -      #101

    So I went through that translation thread, the one that Lady Ramkin linked to, and I could not find the reference that I was hoping to find.

    I did find this page though, which is an incomplete alternate translation of LttP:
    www.zeldalegends.net/files/text/z3translation/z3_game_quotes.html
    In these translations the translator notes that the Japanese version of the game makes a greater emphasis on Link’s personal power as opposed to just the Master Sword’s power. According to this, the Spin Attack, the Sword Beam attack, and the Tempered Master Sword are all actually intrinsically attached to Link’s inner power.

    Upon gaining the Tempered Master Sword, the official translation:
    “Great! Your sword is stronger!
    You can feel the sheer power
    flowing through your body!”

    This is what this guy translated the “gaining Tempered Master Sword” text as.

    “All right! My sword got stronger.
    It’s like power’s boiling up from inside my body!”

    Now looking at the bit about gaining the Golden Sword:
    Official version first.
    “Your sword is stronger!
    You can feel its power
    throbbing in your hand!”

    And the alternative:
    “My sword got stronger than before.
    It feels somehow warm.”

    The Japanese text also suggests that the Pendants each increase Link’s power. Only one line in the English version suggests this, and only if you get the second and third Pendant out of order, so it is easily missed.

    Anyways, back to the Master Sword and the Golden Sword and Ganon’s defenses.

    The Master Sword is obviously as empowered by Link as Link is empowered by the Master Sword in LttP according to the Japanese text. Despite this, it is only the combination of the two that Link is able to harm Ganon (and even then only with his most powerful attack, the Spin Attack). Contrast the text about the Golden Sword, which seems to imply that the Golden Sword’s power is greater than Link’s power.

    Contrast “It’s like power’s boiling up from inside my body!” with “You can feel its power
    throbbing in your hand!”

    The first is from the Tempered Master Sword, where the enhanced sword is bringing out Link’s latent powers. The second is from gaining the Golden Sword and its power is now powerful enough for Link to feel it in his own body. The focus of power has gone from going from Link into the sword and is now from the sword going into Link.

    An interesting bit is that in the japanese version Uncle makes it clear that the Spin Attack is a secret technique that is kept in the family.



    Well this certainly seems to me to have been quite uninformative. Sure there are some neat tid bits if you like to look at Zelda translations, but for the purpose of this match I don’t think this really helps. Sorry for the wait on this. I had to go through the 54 page translation thread to make sure it actually wasn’t there and just not cataloged in their short cut page.

    Off the main topic, I did find a link to someone translating “BS Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets”. One of the side games in the LoZ series. Here is part 1:
    bszelda.zeldalegends.net/sekibanvot1.shtml
    The other parts can be reached from there. Doesn’t add anything to this match from what I’m aware of, but I figured since I’ve been on the topic of Zelda translations someone else might find it interesting.

  2. Envoy October 11, 2015 at 5:56 pm -      #102

    “As far as i can tell only the illusion stuff runs on mist.”
    +
    Which is everything, because all of was made by the thoughts of man.
    =
    “he isnt like 1/80th a demigod?”
    +
    There are no egyptian demigods.
    =
    “This combined with chirion saying celestial bronze does not hurt mortals seems to be more than enough to make the determination that it does not hurt mortals.”
    +
    Legacies.
    Renya’s entire lineage is 100% mortal, they count because Gods like them. Magicians count because they know magic. Decedents of demigods count because their ancestors (be it 1 or 100 generations behind) were supernatural.
    =
    “Importance is subjective.”
    +
    Its also just the way people describe it outside of the books. Quit getting hung up on semantics.

  3. LadyRamkin October 11, 2015 at 6:15 pm -      #103

    “Which is everything, because all of was made by the thoughts of man.”

    You are going to have to clarify that…..
    – – –
    “There are no egyptian demigods.”

    …and? are you saying that it is totally out of the question that his great great grandfarther was a greek demigod, or aroman demigod, or a hindu demigod or whatever???
    – – –
    “Renya’s entire lineage is 100% mortal, they count because Gods like them.”

    Quotes on that
    – – –
    “Magicians count because they know magic.”

    Quotes on that
    – – –
    “Its also just the way people describe it outside of the books”

    Describe what?? immortality?? because we have a word for that…. its immortality
    – – –
    “Quit getting hung up on semantics.”

    Yes, because i am the one trying to justify bullshit with a simple turn of phrase.

  4. LadyRamkin October 11, 2015 at 6:28 pm -      #104

    Things that need to be proven by Percy supporters

    1) That Imperial gold and celestial bronze have similar enough properties to share feats

    2) Any instance of celestial bronze harming someone we believe to be 100% mortal, not just fear of it, or blocking it, actual, physical harm

    3) that the injured party is actually 100% mortal and has no demigod blood whatsoever

    4) That there are no extraneous circumstances that invalidate the feat

    5) that Chirion simply lied to Percy for some reason.

    6) That it is possible to go from non-harmable to harmable in the eyes of celestial bronze

    7) That celestial bronze can make contact with something that has no physical mass.
    – – –
    Point 7 is probably the most important one, Percys most destructive force is his water bending anyway, the sword is mostly negligible here.

  5. Friendlysociopath October 11, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #105

    Things that need to be proven by Percy supporters

    You go obscenely far out of the way for some of the smallest things sometimes.

    That Imperial gold and celestial bronze have similar enough properties to share feats

    The God of Smithing pointed out they’re the same but one explodes.

    Any instance of celestial bronze harming someone we believe to be 100% mortal, not just fear of it, or blocking it, actual, physical harm

    Jason bashes the son of Midas, in the face, with the javelin. Knocks him back and everything.

    that the injured party is actually 100% mortal and has no demigod blood whatsoever

    Done again, Midas has no immortal blood and his son and daughter also do not have any.

    That there are no extraneous circumstances that invalidate the feat

    You mean possible Resurrection? The thing Ganondorf does almost every game or so?

    that Chirion simply lied to Percy for some reason.

    It’s not a lie Ramkin, Chiron told Percy he couldn’t harm mortals because they weren’t important enough.
    The stressing of “mortal” vs “important” is done in the eye of the reader, not Chiron. You decided the mortal part is what takes precedence- whether you are correct or not would depend on the available evidence.

    That it is possible to go from non-harmable to harmable in the eyes of celestial bronze

    Magic imbued into a human like Midas, boom, harmable.
    Give someone immortality, boom, harmable.
    Be important enough to matter, boom, harmable.

    Can’t answer about intangible though.

  6. Nsl98 October 11, 2015 at 11:23 pm -      #106

    @Ramkin
    Even Percy agrees with me. He assumes that Carter is a demigod because his sword can hurt him (is there an actual in text reason given for that?) becuase Percy knows that the swords should not hurt Mortals, he would be able to tell if he was a monster therefore he assumes demigod.

    That’s not the reason at all. He assumes Carter is a demigod because:
    a. He didn’t know there were others of the supernatural world
    b. He just saw Carter attack a monster with a bronze sword

    7) That celestial bronze can make contact with something that has no physical mass.

    Roman ghosts (the type of ghosts Percy was actively fighting and killing on Hubbard Glacier) are intangible:
    Their house god Vitellius shimmered into existence, standing half embedded in Frank’s couch

    No one but Nico could actually touch the Lares

    Do you wanna know why Nico can touch ghosts no one else can (intangibility)? Because he’s the son of Hades.

    It seems Friendly and Envoy said what I was gonna say for the rest.

    @OA
    Disarm a weapon that is considerably larger than Percy himself is from an even larger monster? uh huh… yeah, I’m going to need more than Percy being able to disarm enemies that are human sized to begin considering thinking that Percy can disarm weapons that are the size of humans.

    Does grabbing the spear of a 30ft + tall giant mid swing bare handed count?

    Porphyrion is taller than Enceladus:
    Jason hadn’t thought anything could be scarier than Enceladus. He was wrong. Porphyrion was even taller, and more ripped.

    Enceladus height:
    To start with [Enceladus] was thirty feet tall.

    Percy grabs Porphyrions spear mid swing:
    “As the giant king ran toward Piper, Percy grabbed the tip of Porphyrion’s spear and forced it down into the ground.”

    Also the quotes from the books that were provided describing his healing makes it seem like his wounds were not extremely deep. He calls them cuts and shreds. Ganon is going to be impaling or doing whole body cuts with any solid blow he delivers

    Well he was twelve when that happened, so his wound vocabulary probably wasn’t that high. And he only uses the word shred when describing the sound of his armor and chest being torn apart by the rhino sized dog. He mentions he would’ve been literally turned into a walking meat sack had the dog not been shot.

    How well does Percy deal with major organ damage?

    He got stabbed multiple times while in Tarturus and kept fighting. He didn’t have access to water at the time either.

  7. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 3:05 am -      #107

    “You go obscenely far out of the way for some of the smallest things sometimes.”

    Its a flaw in my genetics. Cant be helped.
    – – –
    “The God of Smithing pointed out they’re the same but one explodes.”

    Quotes pls. Also apparently imperial gold kills things better than bronze does according to the wiki. Anabeth says something like storm spirits are hard to kill even with celestial bronze, and then Jason one shot them.
    – – –
    “Jason bashes the son of Midas, in the face, with the javelin. Knocks him back and everything.”

    Jason, using imperial gold which has not yet been confirmed to have the same non mortal harming flaw flaw, hits a resurrected ‘zombie skull face man’ in the face??? How is that an example of what i asked for?
    – – –
    “Done again, Midas has no immortal blood and his son and daughter also do not have any.”

    See above “Resurrected zombie skull face man”
    – – –
    “You mean possible Resurrection? The thing Ganondorf does almost every game or so?”

    This is why i asked about composites… some Ganons have been resurrected…. others haven’t…. they fact that a composite has never really “lived” seems an issue to me too. Also, off the top of my head, Ganon has only actually been revived once…. and that was in the oracles games.
    – – –
    “Magic imbued into a human like Midas, boom, harmable.
    Give someone immortality, boom, harmable.
    Be important enough to matter, boom, harmable.”

    I meant are there any in text examples of it. And im still not liking the whole midas thing because
    not only were they weird resurrected things, like, not fully resurrected they were still kinda half dead, but it was done with imperial gold and not celestial bronze. And i cant remember anywhere that says imperial gold cant hurt mortals.
    – – –
    “That’s not the reason at all. He assumes Carter is a demigod because:”

    Eh, I read something vague about carter above and apparently drew some false conclusions, soz.
    – – –
    “Roman ghosts (the type of ghosts Percy was actively fighting and killing on Hubbard Glacier) are intangible:”

    Wait…. you said the Roman ghosts that Percy fights and then gave quotes for Lares. which are not the same thing. Lares cant touch people can they?? Whereas the Roman ghost that Percy fights clearly can touch people, otherwise they would pose no threat.

  8. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 3:12 am -      #108

    Does anybody Know if ALBW rectons the end of ALttP or not? Becuase you kill Ganon in ALttp. But then Yuga Pulls him out of…. somewhere….. which i always assumed was the sacred realm…… Unless it was a resurrection??? Which would mean that the sages have the power to straight up revive dead guys…. which is a useful tidbit for zelda universe matches…. but if ganon was dead, why would the triforce of power go and reside in his corpse?????

  9. OriginalA October 12, 2015 at 3:29 am -      #109

    Friendly said:
    “You mean possible Resurrection? The thing Ganondorf does almost every game or so?”

    Ganondorf has been resurrected exactly twice. Once onscreen in Oracles (after his death in LttP), and once off screen in between Oracles and LoZ. There is the possibility of him being resurrected a third time, in AoL, but that only occurs as a Game Over scenario.

    Contrast being Reincarnated once, in FSA after his death in TP.

    He has never returned in any form after his death in WW.

    I think you are confusing the number of times Ganon has died with the number of times that he has come back because there are mutliple instances of near identical events (specifically the death of Ganondorf that began his rise to power in OoT). Because of the Split Timeline there are three unique instances of this exact same man. This man, turned demon, dies in WW, TP, and LttP. These are mutually exclusive events; not sequential. The only times where Ganon has legitimately come back from the dead is Oracles, LoZ, and potentially AoL. These games are all in the same timeline and directly lead from one to the next in that order. Ganondorf’s death in TP and WW are removed from those events and have no influence on them. Likewise, FSA Ganon’s rise to power are removed from OoT/TP Ganon’s rise to power because OoT/TP Ganon died. FSA Ganon is a new instance of Ganon; not a previous one returned to life.

    NsI98 said:
    “He got stabbed multiple times while in Tarturus and kept fighting. He didn’t have access to water at the time either.”

    Tells me nothing. What kind of weapons was he stabbed with? Where was he stabbed? There is a difference from being stabbed in the leg, in the gut, in the heart, and in the head.

    How long would Percy survive with a 6 inch diameter hole through his rib cage? Any successful attack from Ganon’s weapons are going to be leaving wounds like that. Either his Twin Swords from OoT, or his Trident from FSA or LttP or Oracles, or his tusks from TP.

    Thank you for the quote about Percy grabbing the spear.

    Now I realize that Percy has really good reaction time, and I realize now that he is fairly well suited to fight larger enemies thanks to that bit about the giant. The reason I’m making a big deal about Percy surviving one, good solid attack is simple: Flying, Invisible, Teleporter.

    I understand Percy has abilities that mitigate some of these advantages, but I have not been given enough to lead me to believe that Percy will not receive any significant injury at all or have the chance to recover from it.

    Since the battlefield is New York, and Percy does become more powerful when he has water available, perhaps now is a good time to remark that Ganon can forcibly punt people into the Dark World. That’s what he did in FSA after he defeated the Knights of Hyrule. You can actually see Ganon teleport Link in the FSA fight I linked to previously, although that instance isn’t quite the same thing as what he did to the Knights because with the Knights he sent them into the Dark World from the normal realm while in the boss fight with Link they are already in the Dark World so he sends him into an alternate space.

    Of note, Agahmin does this to Link in LttP as well after Link beats him for the first time.

    …………..
    I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT ALBW!!!!
    Does Yuga-Ganon count in composite Ganon? It is technically a fusion of Ganon and Yuga. … also add one more mark on Ganon being resurrected (after Oracles, but before the resurrection that stuck for him to appear in LoZ because this is a case of coming back and being killed again) … Wait… does this mean that post-ALBW Ganon is actually Yuga-Ganon? I don’t recall them separating themselves from each other after being killed. Does this mean that LoZ Ganon is actually Yuga-Ganon? … eh, doubt it, and it is clearly not the original intent. Still fun to think about. … I should play that game again. Yuga had a bitchen theme song!

  10. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 3:42 am -      #110

    “and once off screen in between Oracles and LoZ”

    Wait what???? LoZ Ganon is a resurrected Ganon???? I thought it was a FSA kinda thing. Just him reincarnated. Like, FSA Ganon and LoZ Ganon are actually the exact same dude in different timelines, like TP Ganon, WW Ganon and ALttP Ganon.

    Well, i didnt think they were the exact same, i though of that just now, but i still though LoZ ganon was a reincarnation.
    – – –
    “I should play that game again.”

    After i first beat it, i started a Hero mode, no upgrade, no heart container run….. i get one shot by EVERYTHING.

  11. OriginalA October 12, 2015 at 4:05 am -      #111

    Okay this is too funny. Your post about ALBW wasn’t there when I made my post. I just suddenly thought about it near the end of my post. That is just too funny that we both would think about ALBW at roughly the same time.

    That also means my post is not a response to yours. I’ll try and take a look into answering your questions properly, because those are some darn good ones.

    And yes, LoZ Ganon is LttP Ganon resurrected accorded to Hyrule Historia. So same dude. That incarnation of Ganon dies a lot.

    Oddly, Hyrule Historia also lists LttP as a resurrection of Ganon, even though he wasn’t previously killed. Him not being killed a plot point in LttP, and I know from that translation thread that the japanese wording for “Resurrection” can also mean “Revive”, which would kinda fit since he would be “revived” from his seal, which was breaking.

    LttP, Oracles, LoZ, AoL, WW’s backstory and WW are all listed as instances of “Ganondorf is Resurrected” (or his resurrection is prevented in the case of AoL).
    FSA is listed as “The Reincarnation of Ganondorf”.
    Naturally ALBW isn’t mentioned because it wasn’t made yet, but it is officially between LttP and LoZ at least one generation after LttP because it is a different Link and Zelda.

    I speculate that the reason why LoZ Ganon is kinda dumb compared to his other counter parts is because of all those resurrections. At least one failed resurrection, being fused with Yuga probably didn’t help much. I just figured that all of that messing around without proper reincarnation has left a mark on him and damaged him; hence his stupidity in Oracles and his seemingly lack of ambition in LoZ. Although it has cost Hyrule too. By the time AoL rolls around something like 1/6th of the country is a single cemetery. That cemetery is larger than the entire map in LttP. And apparently there were no cities in Hyrule during the events of LoZ; people were living in caves. The Decline Timeline is aptly named. Magic is leaving the world. Ganon isn’t doing so well. The country of Hyrule is in shambles. Ganon’s minions still roam the lands. The Triforce is gone most of the time. … Thinking about it, Lorule is suspiciously similar to that as well. Monsters roam the land. The kingdom is on the edge of collapse. Civilization is nearly at an end. …. Awww… I’m depressed now. Sometimes I forget how dark Nintendo can be.

  12. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 4:16 am -      #112

    I would really like there to be a new game in the decline timeline. Set after AoL where everything is getting rebuilt and things are not as bleak.

    Same kind of concept to it as OoT or OoA. Or maybe some mechanic that lets you play with time, slow it down speed it up ect.

    And right at the end Ganon get a hold of the full triforce and wishes for the death of “The Hero of time”

    Which subsequently kills OoT Link and actually causes the existence of the decline timeline. Then that entire timeline is Now the Song of storms. I want that SO BAD. It will never happen……
    – – –
    Not relevant…. but still….

  13. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 4:25 am -      #113

    Isnt imperial gold, like, actual real mortal gold (not gold that is mortal, but gold that is commonly used by mortals), that has just been blessed in a roman temple?

    And celestial bronze is like, actually its own specific substance, separate to normal bronze?

    That’s how ive been looking at them… but i dont know if that is correct.

  14. OriginalA October 12, 2015 at 4:36 am -      #114

    Completely fan speculation on my part, but I always imagined that the Decline Timeline is the first Post-OoT timeline and the events therein are vastly different than the ones depicted in OoT. Like the Master Sword never gets pulled because Link never gets all three stones. Ganondorf finds an alternative means into the Sacred Realm. Twinrova don’t die (so they can be alive for Oracles, assuming they aren’t reincarnations but I always assumed they were the same incarnation as OoT Twinrova). Link fights Ganon without the Master Sword and is defeated (Historia says he is defeated; not killed or dead. Still possible he is dead, but it isn’t stated for sure that he dies there). Flood of other people rush for the Sacred Realm to grab the Triforce but are transformed into demons. Sages seal the Sacred Realm and Ganon away. Decline-OoT Zelda then sends a message back through time to herself, which kicks OoT off properly and is the premonition that Young OoT Zelda speaks of.

    That’s my personal take on Decline-OoT events anyways.

    I kinda wish Oracle of Ages was set in Hyrule. The time travel mechanics send Link back 400 years in that game. I find that an odd era to go back to because that is exactly when OoT would be happening. It would have been awesome if Oracles Link had gone around helping out OoT Link, but no. OoA is set in a different country.

    Pointless tangents are so much fun here! I go off on them perhaps too often, but I always like to speculate on interpretations of canon and hear other people’s thoughts and their own theories and wut not. Having the Decline Era be established by a stable time loop initiated from within the Decline Era would be an interesting story. I like that idea.

  15. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 5:06 am -      #115

    Ive always thought it would be cool to have a link that can travel between timelines. So there would be 3 versions of every place he goes 1 where everything is desolate and terrible (decline). 1 where everything is prosperous and happy (child) and 1 where everything is under water.(adult) could be some interezting puzzles / bosses.

  16. OriginalA October 12, 2015 at 7:02 am -      #116

    I think the closest we will ever see to something like that is Hyrule Warriors. With the upcoming 3DS version coming out, there is supposed to be an expansion to the storyline, and King of Red Lions (I love that name), Toon Link, and Tetra are being added to the player characters. Add in the fact that already TP Link and Midna are playable and you have Adult and Child timelines being crossed over.

    I know there is a costume set for Zelda in there that gives her colors inspired by LttP’s Zelda. I would never use it though. Hilda colors are the way to go!

    I should play that game again too.

    Unrelated, but something weird is going on with my previous post. I can still edit it. In fact, it says I can still edit it for another “98 undefined and 34 seconds”, counting down of course. Weird glitch. It’s 3 AM…. maybe I should be sleeping now.

    EDIT: the glitch is gone now after I posted this post. So refreshing the page cleared it I guess.

  17. Friendlysociopath October 12, 2015 at 9:21 am -      #117

    I take back the line about the God of Smithing saying Bronze and Gold were the same- I just looked over Leo talking to his dad before heading off to college and he didn’t mention it like I thought he did.

    Unrelated, but something weird is going on with my previous post

    Ah, you’ve encountered the unrefined thing, good- I’m not crazy.

  18. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 10:48 am -      #118

    “Unrelated, but something weird is going on with my previous post

    Ah, you’ve encountered the unrefined thing, good- I’m not crazy.”

    Ive seen it too

  19. Nobunaga Jin October 12, 2015 at 12:02 pm -      #119

    What’s with the undefined thing anyway? For some reason it keeps saying that you can edit your post, even thought the original time limit passed.

  20. Ninja Lowk October 12, 2015 at 12:27 pm -      #120

    “I’m not crazy.”

    alternative, maybe you’re all crazy.

    Do any of you post from a phone because its only happened for me on my phone.

  21. Nsl98 October 12, 2015 at 12:50 pm -      #121

    Its happened to me on my phone and tablet.

    Also, large post incoming.

  22. Friendlysociopath October 12, 2015 at 1:26 pm -      #122

    alternative, maybe you’re all crazy.

    At the moment I am beyond crazy. I’ve spent 3 weeks making a 3d city and then today I found a script that does the entire job better and in 5 seconds.
    Truly, being given everything you’ve ever wanted is sometimes a tremendous blow to the mental faculties.

  23. Nsl98 October 12, 2015 at 1:50 pm -      #123

    Reyna says they’re the same:
    “The metal is called Celestial Bronze. It’s deadly to monsters, like Imperial Gold, but even rarer.”

    @OA
    Tells me nothing. What kind of weapons was he stabbed with? Where was he stabbed?

    Percy had to experience every killing blow he’s dished out over the years and whatever curse the victim placed on him.

    One example:
    “Percy, you’re bleeding!” Annabeth cried, which was kind of obvious to him at this point. “Oh gods, on both sides!”
    It was true. The left and right hems of his tattered shirt were sticky with blood, as if a javelin had run him through.
    Or an arrow…
    Queasiness almost knocked him over. Vengeance. A curse from the slain.
    He flashed back to an encounter in Texas two years ago–a fight with a monstrous rancher who could only be killed if each of his three bodies was ciut thorough simultaneously.
    “Geryon,” Percy said. “This is how I killed him…”


    Shortly after that, he runs through a forest slicing down trees in one blow and soloing the demons chasing him.

    More:
    Each time a demon disentegrated, Percy felt a heavier sense of dread as another curse settled on him. Some were harsh and painful: a stabbing in the gut, a burning sensation like he was getting hosed down with a blowtorch.

    Percy knew he’d killed alot of monsters, but he’d never really thought àbout it from the monsters point of view. Now all their pain and anger and bitterness poured through him, sapping his strength.

    Percy gets brought to his knees after all the pain:
    Now he was in Tartarus, dying from Gorgon’s blood and a dozen other agonizing curses, while he watched his girlfriend stumble around, helpless and blind and believing he’d abandoned her. He clutched his sword. His knuckles started to steam. White smoke curled off his forearms.

    Percy gets back up a few seconds later:
    It took all his remaining effort, but he got to his feet. Steam rose from his whole body. His legs shook. His insides churned like a volcano. At least Percy could go out fighting. He raised Riptide.

    So yeah, he can take a hit.

  24. LadyRamkin October 12, 2015 at 2:00 pm -      #124

    “Reyna says they’re the same:
    “The metal is called Celestial Bronze. It’s deadly to monsters, like Imperial Gold, but even rarer.””

    No…. she states that it is deadly to monsters like imperial gold…… that in no way means that they share any other properties, like phasing through mortals.

    The thing is called a meteor. It’s deadly to people, like bullets, but from space.

    Its called a quad core processor, it does math, like an abacus, but not as old

    Its called a car, its used for transportation, like a bike, but with more wheels.

    Its called a sling shot, it fires projectiles, like a pistol, but shit.

  25. LadyRamkin October 13, 2015 at 5:19 am -      #125

    What happens if ganon just shoves a shadow crystal in him???? Pery is proven to be suceptible to polymorph effects. But shadow crystals react differently in response to divie powers right? Link turned into a wolf Instead of a ghost thing… would pery turn into a horse of somthing?

  26. Ninja Lowk October 13, 2015 at 9:59 am -      #126

    Is the “Can’t harm mortals” debate still about whether or not the sword would affect Ganon?

  27. LadyRamkin October 13, 2015 at 11:30 am -      #127

    It’s more about whom it can hurt period. We need to define exactly who and what it can hurt for every match that includes celestial bronze.

    The fact that those criteria can then be applied to Ganon is a bonus

  28. Friendlysociopath October 13, 2015 at 2:01 pm -      #128

    Pretty sure Ganon can be affected by Celestial Bronze for reasons:
    Uses magic
    Comes back from the dead
    Is a magical being
    Is referred to as a Demon
    Is specifically immune to normal mortal weapons
    Technically imbued with the power of the gods

    Essentially Ramkin and NS have two different ideas:
    Mortal- The blade will not harm anyone without some form of immortality.
    Importance- The blade will not harm regular mortals because they are not important, their mortality is secondary and not relevant.

  29. Ninja Lowk October 13, 2015 at 6:16 pm -      #129

    “The fact that those criteria can then be applied to Ganon is a bonus”

    The guy is the reincarnation of a monster.
    He uses magic, transforms into a giant pig monster, At least two version of him are resurrected, and it takes enchanted weapons just to harm him.

    How is different from the other monsters?

  30. Mea quidem sententia October 13, 2015 at 6:48 pm -      #130

    From the description about Ganondorf being the demon reborn and how he was originally a man whose heart became dark over time, it seems that mortals can become demons in the same way people lost in the Lost Woods will become skull kids or stalfos’.

  31. OriginalA October 13, 2015 at 10:57 pm -      #131

    “He uses magic, transforms into a giant pig monster, At least two version of him are resurrected, and it takes enchanted weapons just to harm him.”

    As I previously stated, the Japanese word for Resurrection can also be translated as Revive. WW Ganondorf is explicitly not killed at any time before the very end of WW. The Hyrule Historia referring to him breaking the seals that bound him on those two occasions as resurrections are metaphorical at best, if not out right erroneous translations. He did not come back from the dead at any time in the Adult Timeline.

  32. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 4:46 am -      #132

    “How is different from the other monsters?”

    ALL monsters in Percy Jackson universe are Immortal.

    Ganondorf is not. Never has been, at any point.

    Chirion explicitly says that the celestial bronze does not harm mortals.

    Now i have provided a list of points that, once proven, will convince me that celestial bronze can hurt “Important” people, but somebody is going to have to define important for me, for i will get just as pedantic over that

  33. Ninja Lowk October 14, 2015 at 8:47 am -      #133

    “ALL monsters in Percy Jackson universe are Immortal.”

    So they’ve never been killed? How does their immortality work?

  34. Nsl98 October 14, 2015 at 8:59 am -      #134

    So they’ve never been killed? How does their immortality work?

    They regenerate in Tartarus and then come back.

  35. Friendlysociopath October 14, 2015 at 9:15 am -      #135

    Ganondorf is not. Never has been, at any point.

    Again, the only “mortal” you know it doesn’t work on is the 100% mundane and normal humans.
    The weapons work on animals and unliving materials like rock- the one thing they for sure do not work on is regular humans.
    Let me know when Ganon counts as a perfectly normal human by any stretch of the imagination.

  36. Ninja Lowk October 14, 2015 at 11:40 am -      #136

    “They regenerate in Tartarus and then come back.”

    Then it sounds like the debate is getting hung up on the immortality lable. They get slain then end up in, iirc, the equivalent of hell. That sounds like dying.

    What about this important angle? Maybe list some traits of the things that are “important” enough to be affected and compare them with Ganon to see if E.C. matches up with any of them.
    Honestly imo, going by the wiki and some of the stuff on here, mortal and immortal just seem like lables to distinguish normal creature from supernatural creatures.

  37. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 11:52 am -      #137

    “Again, the only “mortal” you know it doesn’t work on is the 100% mundane and normal humans.”

    Except rachel can see through the mist, which very clearly differentiates her from mundane normal humans, who very pointedly can not do that, many demigods have trouble with it, she remains completely unaffected.
    – – –
    “the one thing they for sure do not work on is regular humans.”

    And apparently irregular ones
    And the clothes those ones are wearing….. for some reason.
    – – –
    “Let me know when Ganon counts as a perfectly normal human by any stretch of the imagination.”

    When he is born…… and isnt immortal.
    – – –
    “Then it sounds like the debate is getting hung up on the immortality lable.”

    Not really, I cant see the sword even being that relevant here. As i see it Percy hydrokinesis is way more important here.
    – – –
    “That sounds like dying.”

    Except they don’t, because death is permanent. They don’t remain dead, they are at best temporarily incapacitated.

  38. Nsl98 October 14, 2015 at 11:56 am -      #138

    What about this important angle? Maybe list some traits of the things that are “important” enough to be affected and compare them with Ganon to see if E.C. matches up with any of them.

    -Carter mentions that sometimes finding magical artifacts can affect mortals and make them a target for magical activity
    -Resurrected/reanimated like the mortals Gaea used
    -Using magic
    -Favored by a god or one is your “patron”

    Stuff like that. Kronos even employed regular mercenaries during the Battle of Manhattan.

    Honestly imo, going by the wiki and some of the stuff on here, mortal and immortal just seem like lables to distinguish normal creature from supernatural creatures.

    I think that was Riordan’s intent. In fact, in the new series RR is making, Apollo is referred to as mortal because he no longer has magic powers.

  39. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 11:59 am -      #139

    Until it is proven that Percy can get around intangibility, this match is a stomp for Ganon. And we really do need to determine The properties of celestial bronze for any and all relevant matches.

    “Carter mentions that sometimes finding magical artifacts can affect mortals and make them a target for magical activity”

    Does not mean celestial bronze can hurt you
    – – –
    “Resurrected/reanimated like the mortals Gaea used”

    Do we have any Proof that celestial breonze can hurt these guys either??
    – – –
    “Using magic”

    How do humans do that btw??
    – – –
    “Favored by a god or one is your “patron””

    Proof that, that means you can be hurt by celestial bronze
    – – –
    “stuff like that. Kronos even employed regular mercenaries during the Battle of Manhattan.”

    Proof that they can be hurt by celestial bronze

  40. Ninja Lowk October 14, 2015 at 1:30 pm -      #140

    “Except they don’t, because death is permanent.”

    Only in the real world. Do I really have to list the all the fictions where death is either reversible, escapable, or just part of some kind of rebirth or respawn cycle?

  41. Friendlysociopath October 14, 2015 at 2:21 pm -      #141

    Until it is proven that Percy can get around intangibility, this match is a stomp for Ganon.

    He can’t stay intangible forever so I fail to see how that makes Ganon even win, much less stomp.

    When he is born…… and isnt immortal.

    Demigods are born and aren’t immortal, celestial bronze works on them.
    Animals are born and aren’t immortal, celestial bronze works on them.
    Trees are “born”, celestial bronze works on it.

    Except they don’t, because death is permanent.

    They die Ramkin, just because you can come back from death doesn’t make it any less of a death.
    Richard Rahl can almost literally walk out of his underworld when he dies- he still died.

    You said regular humans reincarnate in PJverse, could I get a quote on that?

  42. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 3:04 pm -      #142

    “Only in the real world. Do I really have to list the all the fictions where death is either reversible, escapable, or just part of some kind of rebirth or respawn cycle?”

    No… becuase we are not talking about those. we are talking about PJ verse, were you die and your dead, unless you are a immortal, and you dont die at all, you just have your body destroyed, but are still alive.
    – – –
    “Demigods are born and aren’t immortal”

    They have immortal blood. which is actually the reason That celestial bronze can touch them in the first place. Becuae they have somthing immortal in them… how bout that???
    – – –
    “They die Ramkin, just because you can come back from death doesn’t make it any less of a death.”

    They clearly dont die. their bodies dissolve but they arent dead.
    – – –
    “You said regular humans reincarnate in PJverse, could I get a quote on that?”

    Well, what i said was that people that reach the hero place in the underworld are given the option to reincarnate, and that i didnt see why a normal person could not go there. As for a quote, i literally do not have any kind of copy of these books. I have tried looking online for quotes but im not getting anything.
    – – –
    I mean come on guys. Back biter specifically has an iron half to it so that it can kill mortals, that it like the whole point of its existence.
    – – –
    We are specifically told that celestial bronze can not harm mortals.

    all you have to do to put that to rest is point out where it hurts someone that we know for a fact has no immortal connection whatsoever.

    The closest you have come is carter, carter can for some reason do magic, WHY??? how many times do i have to ask that?
    WHY can carter do magic, can any “mortal” just pick up and do magic? why doesnt celestial bronze hurt everyone? they have magic potential RIGHT?

    If it is some kind of specific Egyptian thing, what????
    It was said somewhere that Egyptions can use magic because they are descended from pharaohs.

    But its also been said that carter isnt.

    So why can he use magic???

  43. Nsl98 October 14, 2015 at 3:09 pm -      #143

    I mean come on guys. Back biter specifically has an iron half to it so that it can kill mortals, that it like the whole point of its existence.

    Because iron is a regular metal. Celestial Bronze can’t harm regular mortals because they aren’t important and it’s a metal used to combat supernatural and magical beings. The iron part is for when Luke apparently decides to kill mortals.

  44. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 3:12 pm -      #144

    “mortal and immortal just seem like lables to distinguish normal creature from supernatural creatures.”

    If that is the case, then the writer is a fucking IDIOT. Why would he pick two words with very specific meanings to describe something unrelated to what they mean???????

    He says mortal and immortal, are you actually trying to tell me that thats not what he means???
    – – –
    “Because iron is a regular metal. Celestial Bronze can’t harm regular mortals because they aren’t important and it’s a metal used to combat supernatural and magical beings. The iron part is for when Luke apparently decides to kill mortals”

    What would be the point? Why does he need iron to kill mortals, according to you celestial bronze can do it just fine.

  45. Nsl98 October 14, 2015 at 3:16 pm -      #145

    We are specifically told that celestial bronze can not harm mortals.

    Because regular mortals aren’t important enough. You keep missing that part.

    The closest you have come is carter,

    And Lit the mortal swordsman.

    But its also been said that carter isnt.

    Quote in the thread where someone said Carter isn’t related to pharaohs. Because all I remember saying is that some of his ancestors lied about walking with/ hosting gods .

    WHY can carter do magic, can any “mortal” just pick up and do magic?

    Because he’s related to people who knew gods and occasionally hosted them. It’s a pharaoh thing.

    why doesnt celestial bronze hurt everyone? they have magic potential RIGHT?

    Wut

  46. Nsl98 October 14, 2015 at 3:24 pm -      #146

    What would be the point? Why does he need iron to kill mortals, according to you celestial bronze can do it just fine.

    Nope. According to me, as I have stated numerous times, important/different than regular human/ magical mortals can get hurt. Never once have I said that a regular, run of the mill mortal can get hurt.

  47. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 3:24 pm -      #147

    “Because regular mortals aren’t important enough. You keep missing that part.”

    I dont miss it. Its just “NOT IMPORTANT”
    – – –
    “And Lit the mortal swordsman.”

    1) nobody has said anything about him

    2) who?
    – – –
    “Quote in the thread where someone said Carter isn’t related to pharaohs. Because all I remember saying is that some of his ancestors lied about walking with/ hosting gods .”

    aparently i misread that^ sorry.
    – – –
    “Because he’s related to people who knew gods and occasionally hosted them. It’s a pharaoh thing.”

    So carter can specifically do magic because he is related to people who hosted a god??
    Is that correct?
    – – –
    “Wut”

    Never mind just ranting at that point.

  48. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 3:28 pm -      #148

    “important/different than regular human/ magical mortals can get hurt”

    Except for Rachel who is both important AND different than regular mortals.
    – – –
    “Because regular mortals aren’t important enough”

    Chirion says that it can not hurt mortals because they are not important.

    He does not say:
    It can not hurt most mortals because they are not important

    It can not hurt most mortals because they are not supernatural

    It can not hurt unimportant people whom are mostly mortal

    It can not hurt MORTALS, becuase they are unimportant.
    The fact they are mortal is what makes them unimportant.

  49. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 3:41 pm -      #149

    I mean, If mortals can in fact be hurt by celestial bronze, but only the important ones than that is the single worst way of saying it.

    I mean, jesus.

    “It doesnt hurt because they are unimportant”
    Thats retarded.
    “The metal does not harm those without supernatural abilities”
    would be much better way of saying it.

    They way he said it he then had to explain exactly why it could hurt demigods regardless of their mortality,

    Again citeing immortal blood as the reason.

    Whereas if importance is the main issue then that was an entirely pointless piece of dialog. I mean OF COURSE demi gods are “important” that are the children of gods.

    what was the point of bring up the mortal angle at all???

    Stupid decision by a stupid author

    Got it

    Im going to stop bein g angry and go eat now.
    But when i get back i am gonna go right back to being angry

  50. Ninja Lowk October 14, 2015 at 3:42 pm -      #150

    “No… becuase we are not talking about those. we are talking about PJ verse, were you die and your dead, unless you are a immortal, and you dont die at all, you just have your body destroyed, but are still alive.”

    Having your body destroyed and going to hell, regardless of what happens afterwards, seems a awful lot like dying. Going by that thier essence or existence whatever just persist after they died and do special things.
    So the bronze should be EC with people who either can or have come back from death. Perhap reincarnated?
    So like Characters from Destiny or Demon Souls.

  51. LadyRamkin October 14, 2015 at 3:57 pm -      #151

    “Having your body destroyed and going to hell”

    Tartarus isn’t really hell.
    When you die in PJ verse you go to the underworld, if you are bad you get punished in the underworld. I dont think any dead being is ever sent to tartarus as a punishment.

    Though i need clarification on that.
    – – –
    Im not actually sure what tartarus is, but im pretty sure it is alive.

    And the gorgans got smashed into dust repeatedly and they didnt go to tartarus, they just reformed on the spot… though i think there was somthing hinky going on that i cant rmemeber
    – – –
    “So like Characters from Destiny or Demon Souls.”

  52. Nsl98 October 14, 2015 at 4:19 pm -      #152

    though i think there was somthing hinky going on that i cant rmemeber

    Gaea made it so death was impossible at that time. Even demigods who got killed during that timeframe were brought back.

    When you die in PJ verse you go to the underworld, if you are bad you get punished in the underworld. I dont think any dead being is ever sent to tartarus as a punishment.

    The monsters go to Tarturus to regenerate and then eventually go back to the regular world to wreak havoc.

    Non monsters either get Elysium or Fields of Asphodel. Also, if you don’t believe in the Greek way or whatever, the Underworld appears as what you believe death is like. In the first book, its explained that a corrupt pastor who was in the Underworld sees Hell as he’s being judged.

  53. Ninja Lowk October 14, 2015 at 4:29 pm -      #153

    “I mean, If mortals can in fact be hurt by celestial bronze, but only the important ones than that is the single worst way of saying it.”

    Got to agree with that.
    I can get but yeah, the vagueness aside it kind makes it seem like the entire universe looks down on humanity as a whole… Then again, if it said by one of the Pantheon that might make sense from a chracter standpoint.

  54. OriginalA October 14, 2015 at 10:05 pm -      #154

    Friendly said: “He can’t stay intangible forever so I fail to see how that makes Ganon even win, much less stomp.”

    Nitpick, but as long as he is in the dark, Yes, yes he can. That’s the whole point of his Darkness Technique.

  55. Friendlysociopath October 14, 2015 at 10:34 pm -      #155

    Nitpick, but as long as he is in the dark, Yes, yes he can.

    Ah, but he’s in New York; he is quite literally surrounded by lights at pretty much any given time.

    I can get but yeah, the vagueness aside it kind makes it seem like the entire universe looks down on humanity as a whole

    Well you can kind of see why, the Heroes are literally going around fighting monsters purely for survival while most “mortals” believe they’re fairy tails and myths.

    Actually, come to think of it, I think that exact line of dialogue comes right after the talk about the sword and mortals; about how the Gods get pissed that people think they’re myths.

  56. OriginalA October 14, 2015 at 10:50 pm -      #156

    “Ah, but he’s in New York; he is quite literally surrounded by lights at pretty much any given time.’

    Yes. And Ganon can blot out the sun with clouds and has the magical capacity to life and hover a castle indefinitely. All he really has to do is smash down a couple buildings, which isn’t that hard for him considering the bit in OoT between the Ganondorf fight and the Ganon fight where he smashes his own castle with a single gesture (takes a few minutes to bring down the building though). That, and he can teleport, there are subways (which don’t have nearly as much lighting), and he is almost always invisible.

    Should he choose to, he could spend quite a significant amount of time wrecking buildings before he fights Percy. That would destroy a lot of the light sources. The fact that there are allegedly going to be hurricanes and high winds going on too, causing destruction as well, is only going to be wrecking the light sources even faster.

    And all of that is merely contingent on Ganon simply not bringing this fight into the Dark World, which he can do at his leisure.

  57. Friendlysociopath October 14, 2015 at 10:55 pm -      #157

    So, the only way he can stay intangible (and assure himself a win) is to already fight the battle pretty much? Wrecking buildings, teleporting around and that jazz?

  58. OriginalA October 15, 2015 at 12:02 am -      #158

    Again, he’s invisible. Percy doesn’t have a reliable means to track him.

    Ganon could back away from Percy, clear out an area of the city in order to ensure his intangibility, then draw Percy to that location, and then start the battle. Of course Percy has the chance to interrupt Ganon at any moment because the battle is already officially started, but without a means to reliably track him and with him being invisible, and with New York being damn huge… Percy’s best bet to actually getting to Ganon would be looking for wide scale destruction and then hitting it with more massive scale destruction, because Percy cannot be sure where exactly Ganon could be in that general area and Ganon can retreat from there to effectively anywhere at a moments notice. A more precise attack would be preferable, but Ganon could be inside any number of buildings and is also invisible.

    That does not even mean that Ganon has to destroy all, or even most, of New York in order to ensure in Darkness Technique either. Just clear out an area then seal it off with one of those big-ass barriers that he uses fairly often like the one used to seal off Hyrule Castle in TP. Seal off that area while Percy is already inside of it, and now Percy is locked inside an area with an invisible, intangible enemy. This would also block Percy off from the majority of the local water, like the Hudson River and such, and reduce him to only the local area city water lines, which would also be cut via the magic barrier so there would be a fairly finite amount of water present.

  59. Friendlysociopath October 15, 2015 at 12:13 am -      #159

    Again, he’s invisible.

    When he’s in the dark is what you said. He won’t be in the dark while in New York.

    Ganon could back away from Percy, clear out an area of the city in order to ensure his intangibility, then draw Percy to that location, and then start the battle.

    Which Ganon has done? Or at least indicated he would do if required? Because you’re painting a much more clever and dare I say it, cautious, Ganon than what I’ve seen in the games.

  60. OriginalA October 15, 2015 at 12:43 am -      #160

    No, I said he is intangible when he is in the dark. He is always invisible regardless of the light. He gets this perk because of LoZ-Ganon.

    Ganon always likes to have a fortress for people to battle him in.

    In OoT, Ganondorf could have hunted Link down. He even converses with Link a couple of time after Link has pulled the Master Sword. Instead he just sits in his castle.

    In TP, Ganondorf sealed off Hyrule Castle and redecorated while Link was out adventuring.

    In LttP, Agahmin, whom contained a fragment of Ganon’s soul, sat in Ganon’s Tower. Ganon himself sat under the Pyramid waiting for the barrier between worlds to fall.

    In WW, Ganondorf creates the Fortress Island as he sieges the land above the water. He only left that to pick up Zelda, and even then he retreated from where Zelda was hiding into Hyrule Castle and sealed the way in after he got past.

    In FSA, the confrontation with Ganon is within the Dark World, and the top of a tower. This is literally in the heart of Ganon’s realm.

    Ganondorf does not hunt people down. He sits in his fortress and waits for them to attack him. This is what he would be doing here; building a fortress by destroying the local area.

    The one occasion where Ganon did not do something similar is in Oracles, and that is because he was dead prior to the fight, and he was summoned back from the dead right then and there, with Link standing 15 feet away, he didn’t have most of his powers, and he was driven insane because the resurrection spell was improperly preformed and failed to bring back his mind.

    Yuga-Ganon is a similar situation as Oracles Ganon. The fact that Yuga is also a part of him at that moment also means that any conflict in characterization could be attributed to either of the personalities. If the resurrection attempt from Oracles permanently damaged his mind, then he is also insane here as well.

    So, basically, the only time where Ganon fights in a battlefield not of his specific choosing is when he is resurrected on the spot and has lost his mind.

    Ganondorf is arrogant, but he is not entirely without caution, and one of his most prominent traits is his ability to plan ahead and manipulate people to further his agenda. He doesn’t have people to manipulate here, but he remains fully capable of planning ahead.

    It is possible, however, that Percy could lure Ganon out of the prepared area after Percy attacks him from within it, or if Percy attacks him before it is fully prepared.

    Again, on top of all of this, sending them both into the Dark World remains a very real possibility, and once there the very nature of the Dark World itself will be imposing on Percy’s will to succumb to Ganon. That is the nature of Ganon’s Makai, his realm. It bends the will and nature of those within it into Ganon’s minions and turns them into demons; albeit both over time.

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