Metal Sonic Vs Harry Dresden

Rookie October 5, 2015 at 1:31 am - #1

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPok6ZcbUTI

Ninja Lowk October 5, 2015 at 3:41 am - #2

Harry has to deliberately focus on NOT causing technology to explode. I think a robot sonic might not have been the best choice against him.

Sauroposeidon October 5, 2015 at 10:17 am - #3

Can he blow up Metal before Metal speed blitzes him, though?
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Honestly, because I don’t care for Harry, or magic in general, I don’t know much about him. Just threw Metal Sonic at a couple of random opponents in order to inject some new blood, as Metal’s only had only one match before.

Ninja Lowk October 5, 2015 at 10:33 am - #4

“Can he blow up Metal before Metal speed blitzes him, though?”
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It’s not something he has to trigger it’s just a passive effect. It’s why he can’t even have something as simple as a tv. The more advanced or futuristic the worse the effect.
Essentially this is Superman vs Walking Kryptonite.

Nsl98 October 5, 2015 at 10:57 am - #5

Match Starts:
Metal Sonic begins fizzing and breaking uncontrollably. Then he dies. Fatality.
—
Putting a futuristic machine up against the guy who can make tech break doesn’t seem very productive…

Friendlysociopath October 5, 2015 at 11:00 am - #6

What’s the range on this “Fizzing” effect? If Metal Sonic charges Harry even if it breaks the debris is still going to probably splatter him if he can’t react to it.

Sauroposeidon October 5, 2015 at 11:46 am - #7

I’d ask what’s the strongest thing it’s blown up then? If it’s not a powerful enough effect it might only slow Metal down or injure him.

Sauroposeidon October 5, 2015 at 11:48 am - #8

And what’s the range on it? What’s to stop Metal from just backing off once he suffers some systems failures and trying to kill him by knocking over a building on him?

Nsl98 October 5, 2015 at 12:07 pm - #9

Since I’m too lazy to look in the books myself, here’s some i found online.
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Within 50 feet:
m.imgur.com/PDPiggY
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Can break guns:
m.imgur.com/m9TborS
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More:
m.imgur.com/G1Q5WrB

Belisaurius October 5, 2015 at 12:14 pm - #10

First off, Harry can disable devices at range. It’s his Hexus spell and mostly it’s adding randomness to the workings of a machine. Recently, we’ve seen Harry explode an answering machine.

Second, the passive effect can cause smgs to jam in a few seconds of firing but not reliably. Maybe one out of ten guns won’t finish off their magazine. Range is unspecified and seems to fluxuate depending on range, how much magic is being thrown around, how complex the machine is, and what kind of mood Harry is in at the moment. Harry actually carries a revolver rather than a semi-automatic simply because his magic can’t jam it. At the same time the volkswagon beatle, despite being one of the most reliable cars in existence, only works most of the time when Harry drives it.

Third, keep in mind Harry Dresden’s leather duster. It’s enchanted enough that Harry could throw it into the fireplace to clean it and nothing short of a .50 BMG could even pierce one layer of it.

Considering how complex Metal Sonic is, I’d give him maybe ten seconds before something breaks down and maybe a minute before he’s incapacitated. Possibly less if Harry’s throwing spells around.

oakranger October 5, 2015 at 12:24 pm - #11

It’s over in a few seconds. His ability is that whatever can go wrong with tech can and will go wrong with it. The more that can go wrong, the faster it happens.
A robot with a complicated A.I. and a jet engine strapped to it’s back, large electrical output systems and able to make energy bubbles and much more?
Biggest threat is it explodes and takes Dresden with it.
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Even if we put metal Sonic being immune to the effect and beating up Dresden all we get is a death curse that destroys it, Tie.

Ninja Lowk October 5, 2015 at 12:51 pm - #12

Not in a position for feats right now but I recall him noting that he could take out a whole ICU floor if he wasn’t holding back.
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As for coming at him. His enchated coat lets him take hits from superhumans that chuck cars fairly easily. He can also create a barrier fairly quickly.
===
“I’d ask what’s the strongest thing it’s blown up then?”
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It not about how strong it is. It’s about how advanced it is. Exploding is a worst case scenario(and admittly might be more when he is actually focusing the effect) brought on by the technology severly malfuctioning. There are still less catastrophic malfunction like his CPU going haywire or him simply shutting down.
A old pre 1960’s piece of technology like a phone would fair better the say a jet built in this era.

shadowrider98 October 5, 2015 at 1:23 pm - #13

I say metal sonic speed blitzes due to the fact that metal sonic was based off of sonic and is able to match sonic’s speed with little effort just like in the video rookie posted and it is stated in the sonic wiki”Modeled with extreme accuracy after Sonic, Metal Sonic not only resembles his template, but can also imitate his moves and achieve velocities matching Sonic’s”http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Sonic ,he is durable enough to survive hyper sonic and even go super himself if he gets a hold of a chaos emerald(not sure how well it’ll do to protect metal sonic from magic) www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRtpW9B1hPA

In Sonic Heroes, Metal Sonic’s scan ability reached a new level. After scanning a life form he was able to copy their data into himself. This allowed him to not only use their abilities such as Chaos Control from Shadow the Hedgehog but but to also transform himself into a perfect physical copy of the being as well as duplicate their voice exactly.

so in the end I’m not sure harry would be able to react before metal sonic just blitzes him at full speed and if he does manage to get a shot off on him then judging by the speed metal sonic would be going at least one part of him is bound to hit harry and give either him a concusion or maybe kill him.

Belisaurius October 5, 2015 at 1:43 pm - #14

@Shadowrider

However, if Metal Sonic bothers to spend time scanning this is more time for Harry’s magic to affect him.
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Additionally,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze_uxxFJTvE
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Sonic really isn’t that fast.
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Finally, keep in mind that Harry’s duster is effectively armor. It’s akin to kevlar but far more resistant to cutting and piercing. Harry might feel the impact of metal sonic hitting him but metal sonic won’t be able to simply cut Harry down. In the mean time, this puts metal sonic point blank with Harry Dresden so if Harry so much as whispers a spell Metal sonic isn’t going to last.

Friendlysociopath October 5, 2015 at 1:55 pm - #15

However, if Metal Sonic bothers to spend time scanning this is more time for Harry’s magic to affect him.
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True, but range and potency appear to vary- it doesn’t look like something set in stone.
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Finally, keep in mind that Harry’s duster is effectively armor. It’s akin to kevlar but far more resistant to cutting and piercing.
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It’s not standing up to a Metal Sonic speedblitz, not in the slightest. Argue tech failing and barriers all you want- his coat is not going to be stopping Metal Sonic.
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Even if we put metal Sonic being immune to the effect and beating up Dresden all we get is a death curse that destroys it, Tie.
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That would still actually be a win for Metal Sonic, he’d have beaten his opponent.
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LoL at Game Theory being used as a legit source.

shadowrider98 October 5, 2015 at 1:55 pm - #16

@Belisaurius
that theory has been debunked www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1QS9HZsaCE (see part 2 for more info) and the person who debunked it proved that sonic is faster than game theory has predicted,way faster and it is also shown in comics that sonic is FTL and in sonic colors he was able to outrun a black hole for a full 30 seconds.
that said it is safe to say that metal sonic is probably also FTL as he has been rebuilt several times with the memories of his losses to sonic plugged into him allowing to counter most of sonics attacks and gain experience that would originally have been lost and he is a full on metallic version of sonic,capable of doing everything sonic can(well,mostly everything anyway)

Belisaurius October 5, 2015 at 2:40 pm - #17

@Shadowrider
true top speed debunked on the basis that a 1.1 meter hedgehog would produce a very minor sonic boom.
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Also, the speed of 80 m/s is acceptable but also not going to be fast enough. To his angular speed and acceleration I’d say it’s a combination of gameplay and story segredation (since not being able to sidestep instantly would make the game unplayable), and a matter of aerodynamics. Most likely, Sonic uses his spines as fins to redirect his speed. Other than that, the creator’s statement that his speed is at it’s maximum still stands as Word of God.
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Running at FTL is rediculus since time would stop for sonic at FTL speeds. It would take him an eternity just to put one foot in front of the other. Also, keep in mind that unless sonic was actually at the event horizon (the black part) then he isn’t running at FTL speeds.
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Finally, keep in mind the reasonable prep time rule. Harry Dresden would have time to gather his will at the very least. At that point his shield would come up right off the bat. Mind you, that shield starts at deflecting bullets and cutting a car in half and only gets more powerful. Most likely, metal sonic would destroy it’self on that shield.
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Now, I’ll acknowledge that Metal Sonic would be able to just move around that shield but at that point he can’t rely on pure speed to take Harry out. There’s not enough time or distance to build up speed, Metal sonic needs to rely on his sharp claws and spines. That’s when the Duster comes in. Unless Metal Sonic is precise enough to go for Harry’s head at speed, something he’s not been shown to do, he’s going to hit the duster instead. Considering that Harry’s duster has stood up to .50 BMG rounds I doubt Metal Sonic is going to do much damage. Sure, Harry is going to take some damage but as long as he’s alive he can keep casting and the more he casts the more likely his magic will get to Metal Sonic.
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On a side note, dresdenverse magic has two types of range. First, thaumatury, has practically unlimited range. The target could be on the other side of the planet but as long as the caster has some means of designating the target.
The second, Evocation, is mostly just limited by line of sight. The longest distance on record was by ebenezer McCoy who managed to bring down a satellite from orbit with use of a telescope. We can assume that Metal Sonic is well within Harry’s range. In terms of casting speed, Harry doesn’t need to actually say the spell, just think it. Saying the spell is actually a safety measure against backlash. So Metal Sonic would need to be faster than thought to quick draw against Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.

Friendlysociopath October 5, 2015 at 2:57 pm - #18

Running at FTL is rediculus since time would stop for sonic at FTL speeds.
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Our physics are only accepted until something in the fiction says it shouldn’t be.
FTL is one such thing. It is impossible for us- it is not for fictional characters. If they have a FTL showing- they can go FTL.
This is one reason I laughed at the Game Theory video being dropped as evidence.
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Now, I’ll acknowledge that Metal Sonic would be able to just move around that shield but at that point he can’t rely on pure speed to take Harry out.
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You realize if Metal Sonic is anywhere above Supersonic in combat speeds he can easily run a few circles around Harry before slicing whichever part of him he pleases before Harry can react?

Batz October 5, 2015 at 3:06 pm - #19

>Game Theory
>Supporting an argument
MatPat tried to say the CREATOR of FNaF got things wrong about the story.
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At any rate, the Sonic Adventure manual explicitly refers to Sonic as being ‘hypersonic’. Meaning his minimum top speed is Mach 5.
www.manualslib.com/manual/318256/Sega-Sonic-Adventure.html?page=10#manual

It, and in-game descriptions, refer to the Light-Speed Dash/Attack as being, well, lightspeed.
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Metal Sonic is supposed to be as fast/faster than Sonic, is it not?

shadowrider98 October 5, 2015 at 3:14 pm - #20

@Batz
he is supposed to be as fast/faster than sonic as he was built to be the very image of him
_
@Belisaurius
sonic going FTL is not ridiculous at all since he did it once in the comic and he did get stuck in time,and even then he was still able to move and only after a while was he able to get time flowing again
www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4827262

Belisaurius October 5, 2015 at 4:49 pm - #21

@FriendlySociopath

Only if he can control his super sonic speed.

@Shadowrider

First off, the artwork looks nothing like the archie comics which are the only ones considered canon.
Second, there is no context to this image so it could all be a dream or part of an elaborate ruse.
Third, the post has your name on it. Honestly, it’s a conflict of interests at best and a license to hoax at worse.

Friendlysociopath October 5, 2015 at 6:00 pm - #22

Only if he can control his super sonic speed.
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Feel free to post evidence he can’t.
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Second, there is no context to this image so it could all be a dream or part of an elaborate ruse.
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That would be something you would have to prove if you care to pursue that line of reasoning. As you appear entirely unfamiliar with said comic- I doubt you will. Saying “Maybe it isn’t real” is not an argument.
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Third, the post has your name on it.
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You realize that literally just means he uploaded the image right? That same image is on multiple sites- accusing him of making it on his own is a rather daft move on your part.

Mea quidem sententia October 5, 2015 at 8:21 pm - #23

If Metal Sonic ran and for whatever reason he malfunctioned, even running at the speed of sound would have a titanium object of 125.2 kg. fly Harry’s way. That’d be equal to 4.83 tons.

Nsl98 October 5, 2015 at 8:54 pm - #24

Harry has had an elevator fall on his shields before:
m.imgur.com/z2smYrR
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More shield durability:
m.imgur.com/IJT9lsr
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Pretty sure the elevator one got calced on this site already.

Friendlysociopath October 5, 2015 at 9:15 pm - #25

Pretty sure the elevator one got calced on this site already.
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Thought you guys had one where several tons of rock fall on it?

Mea quidem sententia October 5, 2015 at 9:31 pm - #26

@Nsl98
How long was the drop? I’m getting the impression that Harry was in the elevator. As for “low-speed car crash”, Harry must be referring to speeds of under 10 mi/h.
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expertpages.com/news/low_speed_impact.htm
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The average size of a sedan is 2,300 kg., according to Wolfram | Alpha. I’m sure 9 mi/h will want to be used, since it’s just under 10 mi/h. That’s 4.02 m/s. This would be equal to 10,863.2 newtons, which is equal to 1.24 tons. Metal Sonic is generating more just moving at sonic speed.

Ninja Lowk October 5, 2015 at 11:23 pm - #27

Here’s the bit about the ICU
“I grunted. “You might have to solo him, then. I don’t dare go walking in there with all the medical equipment around.”

“Even if it was just for a few minutes?” she asked.

I shrugged. “I don’t have any control over when things break down.” I paused and said, “Well, not exactly. I could blow out the whole floor in a few seconds, if I was trying to do it, but there’s not much I can do to keep things from breaking down. Odds are good that if I was only in there for a few minutes, nothing bad would happen. But sometimes things go haywire the second I walk by them. I can’t take any chances when there are people on life support.”
Proven Guilty, Chap 15
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Also it has noted the more intense of a situation he is in the hard it is to control. So stuff like being worried and such makes being around technology.
===
“If Metal Sonic ran and for whatever reason he malfunctioned, even running at the speed of sound would have a titanium object of 125.2 kg. fly Harry’s way. That’d be equal to 4.83 tons.”
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What if the Malfuction is the engine used to get him that speed is malfunctioning. Then he wouldn’t be able to reach that speed at all.
===
He’s also used his portal creation as a shield
“I threw up my hands, hissed, “Aparturum,” and, with the last of my will, ripped open the veil between the Erlking’s hall and the material world, tearing open a circular opening maybe four feet across – and floating three feet off the ground and parallel to the floor, oriented so that its entry point was on its upper side. Then I curled up into a fetal position beneath that opening and tried to cover my head with my arms.
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Tons and tons of stone tumbled down with slow, deadly grace. The Devourer’s heartbeat redoubled its pace. Then there was an incredible noise, and the whole world was blotted away.”
Changes, Chap 37
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Intercepting arrows that act more like bullets
The zombies whipped out bows and spears and clubs, or else tore at Sue with their bare hands. It wasn’t pretty. Arrows streaked through the air with unnatural speed, and when they struck the Tyrannosaur’s hide they sounded almost like gunshots. One zombie rammed a spear cleanly through the massive muscle of Sue’s right thigh. A swinging club shattered several of her teeth, and even as I watched, an unarmed zombie leapt up onto her flank, got a hold of the heavy extension cord that held the saddles in place, then drove his fist into her flesh up to the elbow, and started raking out gobbets of tissue by the handful.
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I brought up the sparkling blue cloud of my shield bracelet in time to intercept an arrow, and others smashed against it with the force of bullets even as I held it in place.”
Dead Beat, Chap 42
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Bring up shield via thought
“Some people are faster than others. I’m fast. Always have been, especially for a man my size, but this duel
had gotten off to a fair start, and no merely mortal hand is faster than a vampire’s.
Vitto Malvora’s gun cleared its holster before my fingers had tightened on the blasting rod’s handle.
The weapon resembled a fairly standard Model 1911, but it had an extension to the usual ammunition clip
sticking out of the handle, and it spat a spray of bullets in the voice of a yowling buzz saw.
Some vampires are faster than others. Vitto was fast. He’d drawn and fired more swiftly than I’d ever
seen Thomas move, more swiftly than I’d seen Lara shoot. But bodies, even nigh-immortal vampire
bodies, are made of flesh and blood, and have mass and inertia. No hand, not even a vampire’s, is swifter
than thought.”
” I brought the shield up at the last second, a flat plane perpendicular to the floor, and Ramirez took a
hopping step back just in time to get behind the shield as it formed. Twenty or thirty bullets ricocheted off
the invisible barrier in a shower of sparks—and spalled more or less toward Madrigal Raith and his
magical protection.”
White Knight
===
He has also used the angling of his shield to lessen how much force it takes
The mine beeped. There was a sharp, snapping click of metal.

Kincaid tumbled past me. I leaned aside to let him, and at the same instant brought every scrap of strength I had left to bear on the shield.

Lumpy metal spheres, maybe twenty or thirty of them, flew out into the air. I had angled my shield in a simple inclined plane, its base at the closet’s doorway, its summit at the back wall of the closet, about four feet off the ground. Several of the spheres hit the shield, but the slope of it sent them rebounding out into the hall.

The submunitions exploded in a ripple of thunder and light. Steel balls flew in deadly sprays, rattling off stone walls and tearing into flesh with savage efficiency. The sloped shield flared into azure incandescence, energy from the shrapnel being absorbed and shed as flashbulb-bright bursts of light. The sound was indescribable, almost loud enough to kill all on its own.

And then it was over.

Silence fell, broken only by the crackling of flames. Nothing moved but drifting smoke.
Blood Rites, Chap 33
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Can’t find it yet but there is also an instance where he used his shield to shield him from a cave full of C-4 explosion. Back then I think all he had was a vampire emotion or something powering. Now he has the power of winter back him which is a pretty big boost in comparison.

Friendlysociopath October 5, 2015 at 11:35 pm - #28

@Ninja
I find it somewhat… not silly… mistaken? Unwise? To be trying to debate something that is quite literally random like that.
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What if the Malfuction is the engine used to get him that speed is malfunctioning. Then he wouldn’t be able to reach that speed at all.
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Prime example- what if it doesn’t?
What if all it does is short out the speakers that let him talk?
Or maybe the parts that let him move his arms?
Or maybe the part that lets him see?
There’s no way around it- it’s a guessing game; those suck from a debating point of view.

Ninja Lowk October 5, 2015 at 11:57 pm - #29

“I find it somewhat… not silly… mistaken? Unwise? To be trying to debate something that is quite literally random like that.”
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It’s only random when he is trying to keep it from happening. If he’s not tech can and will get messed up and putting him in a scenario vs a robot is in itself putting him in the mind set of not having to hold back and actually encouraging him.
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“What if all it does is short out the speakers that let him talk?
Or maybe the parts that let him move his arms?
Or maybe the part that lets him see?”
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You treating it like it is only effecting things one at a time. It’s isn’t what gets targeted, it’s effecting all tech, it what would last longer. Speakers and maybe his arms would more then like be the last to go.
Things like Metals CPU and possibly his camera eyes or scanning ability will definitely be among the first and things effected.

Jake_Uzumaki October 5, 2015 at 11:58 pm - #30

@Mea
its the 13 story drop that you and Aelfinn calced in Dresden vs Sparrow final number was 381,398.52 Joules and thats the weakest shield he’s had in the series to date.
—————
found the stone one from Skin Game
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” And then with a cry she sent another lance of Hellfire at me, redoubled in strength.
Again, I caught it with a conjured cyclone infused with soulfire, though the effort was even more tremendous. Again I sent it spiraling up toward the ceiling–but this time I sent it all to one spot.
Even before the last of the Hellfire had smashed into the ceiling, I dropped to one knee, lifted my staff, and extended the strongest shield I could project, putting it between me and Ascher. It was a calculated bit of distraction on my part, giving her something she wasn’t psychologically equipped to ignore. She screamed at me, her eyes furious, gathering more fire in her hands, seeing only a passive target, weakened and fallen to one knee, one she could smash to bits with a third and final strike—but I saw Lasciel’s glowing eyes widen in sudden dismay and understanding as the Fallen reached her own comprehension of consequences and a few portions of a second too late to do any good.
An instant later, several hundred tons of molten and red-hot rock, chewed from the earth above us by Ascher’s own Hellfire-infused strike, came crashing down on top of her.
The noise was terrible. The destruction was appalling. Glowing hot stones bounced from my shield and then began to pile up against it, pushing at me and physically forcing me back across the ground. The pileup shoved me a good twenty feet across the amphitheater floor, with Michael hobbling frantically along a couple of feet ahead of me, crouching to take advantage of the protection of my shield.”
Skin Game 380
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There was enough stone involved to fill half the amphitheater and build up to the thighs of a large statue. And the stones were falling not quite the way they would in Earth’s gravity as stated here (this is just the gravity thing though)
“A few last stones fell, clattering over the mess, bouncing. I noted, dimly, that their arches didn’t look the way they should have. Gravity was indeed something heavier here than in the physical world. ”
Skin Game 381

Batz October 6, 2015 at 12:01 am - #31

Should Metal be allowed its abilities from SA2 multiplayer? The power copying thing in Heroes didn’t just come from nowhere. In the original Dreamcast version, Metal could use Shadow’s abilities- Speed Up, Chaos Spear, and Chaos Control (10 sec. time-stop). In the ‘Battle’ GC port, however, Metal did NOT have these abilities, and instead could use the Black Shield, essentially an Invincibility power up that could be activated at will, but Metal could not manually control its direction. In this state though, it would keep its momentum, allowing it to constantly accelerate if it touched a booster of some sort.
–
I am also beginning to wonder what Chaos energy could be EC with.

OriginalA October 6, 2015 at 2:35 am - #32

So according to the Japanese Sonic CD manual, Metal Sonic has a “250cc, 4-valve Orgon Fusion Engine”. … He’s a running nuclear reactor.
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According to some supplementary material, Metal’s V. Maximum Overdrive Attack overclocks his circuits and accelerates at four times his normal acceleration. This move cannot be sustained indefinitely because prolonged use can cause him to damage himself, up to self destruction.
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Metal Sonic has repeated statements that he can either match or exceed Sonic’s top speed, which is in the hypersonic range (so Mach 5 is a low estimate). Sonic and Metal can both near instantly hit Mach 1. Combined with the V. Max Overdrive, that means that Metal can nearly instantly hit Mach 4.
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Then there is again the fact that he has a fusion reactor.
Now, normally, Fusion Reactors are pretty safe all things considered. They are less likely to explode compared to a Fission Reactor. But, you have Harry’s unfortunate luck with machines. This means that there is that possibility that Harry could cause Metal to explode into nuclear hellfire. Which of course would result in Harry nuking his own ass.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 2:45 am - #33

“Which of course would result in Harry nuking his own ass.”
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So this is a match where even if one side wins, the other side can still fuck them over with their death. Pyrrhic victories for everyone.

OriginalA October 6, 2015 at 3:04 am - #34

To be fair, Metal Sonic making a run at Harry and then getting shut down due to anti-machine magic in mid flight and then still smashing into Harry at supersonic speeds and splattering him is still much more likely than Metal Sonic exploding in a nuclear fireball.
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Still with the nuclear explosion deal, it is much more likely that some minor thing happens to the fusion reactor and it just harmlessly shuts down. Metal Sonic does have a secondary reactor that isn’t nuclear, but I find it unlikely that it would be able to output the power demands required to attain his signature speed. Momentum could still be lethal here though, since it does not require much time at all for Metal Sonic to reach stupid fast speeds.
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But yes, a pyrrhic victory is a likely scenario here.

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 6:21 am - #35

I am still not really convinced his machine fuckery would do much.
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It might shut down a car, occasionally jams guns, and if he isn’t careful could damage ICU equipment.
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For combat machines that are much more sturdy, with built in redundancies and the like, we haven’t seen any feats.
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It’s just “the more complicated, the more vulnerable.” but it’s written almost like the writer does not understand technology.
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Do Pez dispensers ever jam for him? You know, since automatic rifles apparently might, around him.
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Why are automatic guns more likely to jam than his car is to start?
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It’s very random and doesn’t seem to really take in to account much of anything beyond the needs of the plot.
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This seems like “Maybe Metal’s arm would lock up during a punch, giving Harry a chance to back off.” or “Maybe Metal’s turbine would jam, forcing it to back off to restart it.”
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The stone feat is nice.. but it’s an over time feat. He didn’t stop it all at once. He got hit by rock after rock after rock. It’s not quite the same as all of the rocks hitting at once, you know what I mean?

shadowrider98 October 6, 2015 at 7:29 am - #36

@Belisaurius
there is more than just the archie(they are just a spin off of the original sonic comics as stated in the wiki “Metal Sonic is a character who appears in the Sonic the Hedgehog comic series and its spin-offs published by Archie Comics. It is a robotic doppelganger of Sonic the Hedgehog and the most famous creation of Dr. Eggman. It has been a formidable foe to the New Freedom Fighters since its inception, and can even rival the likes of its organic counterpart, Sonic”) comics that are cannon to the sonic universe,I’m pretty sure you know that if you are going to use contexts from them that’s going to mean you’re gonna have to use some crazy op stuff as the archie comics are one of the most op sonic comics out there(sonic is a fricking dimension warper in the archie comics).
_

Metal sonic was also cut in half but somehow was still fully functional without his bottom half so I’m pretty sure that it could stand up to most of it’s parts malfunctioning and then you have to take in the fact of metal’s Plasma pulse chest laser and his other forms,neo metal sonic,metal madness and metal overlord and it’ll actually be bad for harry to be near them as the amount of metal metal madness and metal overlord are composed of is a ton and it turns him into a giant that has the power of a giant nuclear bomb if he exploded and if harry managed to shut down metal sonic fully then all the extra parts would just end up falling off of him and crushing harry as most of the metals metal madness and metal overlord are composed of weigh more than a ton.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 8:46 am - #37

“Why are automatic guns more likely to jam than his car is to start?”
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The reason he drives the car he has is because of the anti-tech thing. His Mechanic finds it easy to repair. Plus he tries to limit it when he can.
===
“Do Pez dispensers ever jam for him? You know, since automatic rifles apparently might, around him.”
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Don’t recall any pez dispensers in the series but Isn’t it basically just one expanding spring? Unless it’s an overcomplicated automatic PEZ dispenser, I’d assume the spring should be fine. Otherwise they can add no pez to, no flying, no watching tv, no refrigerator, no cellphone… Man Butcher sure did make having the ability to manipulate physics sad.
===
“It’s very random and doesn’t seem to really take in to account much of anything beyond the needs of the plot.”
–
Butcher has been giving hints on it as the series progressed. One character talked about it being tied to the wizards themselves. Only magic capable human seem to adversely affect tech.
–
I’ll look further into the technology thing.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 9:25 am - #38

Wizard’s techfuckery field seems to have a beef with anything over WW2 era level of technological advancement.
–
Excitement and throwing around magic makes the effect harder to rein in.
–
Mentions his efforts of him having to suppress
“When I’m around, computers crash, lightbulbs burn out, and car alarms start screaming in warbling, drunken voices for no good reason. I’d worked out a spell to suppress the magic I carried with me, at least temporarily, so that I might at least have a chance to keep from blowing out the studio lights and cameras, or setting off the fire alarms.”
-Death Masks
—
And this is what happens when he didn’t bother to maintain it anymore
“There was a cough of static from the speakers on the stage before they died with loud pops. The floodlights overhead suddenly burst with flashes of brilliance and clouds of sparks that fell down over everyone on the stage. One of the two surviving cameras exploded into fire, bluish flames rising up from out of the casing, and heavy power outlets along the walls started spitting orange and green sparks. Larry Fowler yelped and leapt up into the air, batting at his belt before pitching a smoldering cell phone to the floor. The lights died, and people started screaming in startled panic.”
-Death Masks
–
This was during a talk with someone that just told him he was going to have to face him in a battle to the death. So it seemed appropriate.

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 9:55 am - #39

“The reason he drives the car he has is because of the anti-tech thing. His Mechanic finds it easy to repair. Plus he tries to limit it when he can.”
–
My point was that the mechanics for most guns are extremely simple. So the fact that a gun is more likely to jam than a much more complicated car is to not start seems weird to me.
–
The over heating tech makes it sound like it’s some kind of E.M.P. effect sometimes. Which causes electronics to burn themselves out.
–
I still don’t really see it as a game ender in this. Just a positive factor for him in this fight. Its effects are utterly random.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 11:00 am - #40

“So the fact that a gun is more likely to jam than a much more complicated car is to not start seems weird to me.”
–
Because he tries not to mess up his car whereas he often doesn’t care about messing up an automatic weapon being pointed at him. Helpd that he doesn’t carry one so he wouldn’t have to worry about it like his car.
===
“Just a positive factor for him in this fight. Its effects are utterly random.”
–
Not entirely if he wants it to happen. Then it more of a matter of being disabled/disfunctional or exploding.

Friendlysociopath October 6, 2015 at 11:15 am - #41

Not entirely if he wants it to happen.
–
It’s still random though, every quote presented has shown only some of the exact same objects being affected.
Mall: Only some guns
Stage: Only some cameras
I just don’t know how to debate something that works according to chance.

Belisaurius October 6, 2015 at 11:36 am - #42

Mind you, on the stage Harry actually had wards up to limit his effect on the cameras and as soon as he was riled up the cameras that hadn’t broken down exploded in flames.

shadowrider98 October 6, 2015 at 11:45 am - #43

“Then it more of a matter of being disabled/disfunctional or exploding.”
–
and that’s the bad thing for harry as metal sonic is a nuclear bomb so if he explodes he’ll take harry with him and if he is disabled or disfunctional he’ll just end up slamming himself into harry and splattering his blood all over the place due to the very high speed his is moving at claiming victory,then it’ll just be a amount of time before metal sonic restarts himself to walk away with a few limbs broken/jammed which he can easily replace.

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 12:21 pm - #44

“Because he tries not to mess up his car whereas he often doesn’t care about messing up an automatic weapon being pointed at him. Helpd that he doesn’t carry one so he wouldn’t have to worry about it like his car.”
–
But he doesn’t use other kinds of guns besides a revolver. This implies that he can’t stop himself from jamming them.
–
“Not entirely if he wants it to happen. Then it more of a matter of being disabled/disfunctional or exploding.”
–
I got absolutely zero impression of that. It looks utterly random, with higher chances depending on how much he’s holding back. It doesn’t look like he gets to actually pick. Just a lot of things, random things, break. They break at different points in time and how they break is different.

oakranger October 6, 2015 at 1:56 pm - #45

This is what happens.
–
One second things are peaceful in London. Next second their is a guy wearing a duster staring oddly at a blue metal machine shaped like a weird creature. Next that creature suddenly stops moving(electrical surge erased all the data in his software!) Dresden looks around confused opens up a portal, statue explodes, blast absorbed into the fey.
Dresden dies because Mab, Titania, the Earl King, and all the gods ever get mad about the nuclear fireball that blew up part of their place.
–
The first thing to go would be all of Metal Sonics Software. Plus no fore knowledge means that metal Sonic might try his original traditional challenge against him.
–
Or metal sonic moves as fast as he can towards Dresden, systems malfunction and he suddenly starts going up, head first through the moon and towards the sun without any control because of said malfunction.

oakranger October 6, 2015 at 2:18 pm - #46

as for how it jams up their is talk about it but over all it explains once that it is magic and does not follow completely normal physics. It’s one of the effects that currently happen because a mortal has magic.
In series it says that it once only made milk curdle, cause strange markings on the wizards skin, and made candles burn unnatural colors for no reason other then the fact that a spell slinger was nearby. This does not happen anymore.
It’s more like an overall weaker entropy curse directed at everything mechanical and especially electrical. It is related in power to his emotions, his use of his gift, and his will.
–
I personally like analogy of superman vs. walking kryptonite but only if we add to walking kryptonite-able to throw beams of kryptonite energy or shock wave that could cover a city block.

Mea quidem sententia October 6, 2015 at 2:19 pm - #47

@Ninja Lowk
What if the Malfuction is the engine used to get him that speed is malfunctioning. Then he wouldn’t be able to reach that speed at all.
–
He would, actually, as long as he and Harry are 50 feet apart.
–
Intercepting arrows that act more like bullets
Arrows with the force of bullets? Well, bullets don’t generate a lot of force. Let’s pretend these arrows had a force of an IMI Desert Eagle. The muzzle velocity is 470 m/s with a grain of 325, or 21.1 grams. The force from a single bullet would be 9.917 N, which is 2.23 pounds-force.
–
Bring up shield via thought
From the looks of it, the mind is ethereal in the Harry Dresden series. He thinks thoughts are faster, although thoughts aren’t really that fast. Bullets aren’t too impressive.
–
As for the C-4, how large was this explosion?
–
@Jake_Uzamaki
The American National Elevator Standards Group has a standard weight of 2,200 lb. (997.9032 kg.). 13 stories is equal to 42.9 m. Using U = mgh, the gravitational potential energy would be 419,966.56 J (420 kJ). Like I said, from what I was reading, it looked like Harry was in the elevator with someone else, so he may have actually absorbed more energy, since his surroundings would have collapsed around him.
–
Assuming that the elevator caved in at least half way, the amount of force generated would have been 839,933.13 N, or 94.41 tons of force. So this is a lot better than the last few calculations from Harry. Here’s the big question: can Harry will this kind of shield without having to think about it? Will he be fast enough to react to an object traveling at sonic speed or even attaining hypersonic speed?

Mea quidem sententia October 6, 2015 at 2:23 pm - #48

Like Sauroposeidon said, it looks like this “anti-tech” is more of an EMP, which would mean that there are already technologies that are EMP hardened, i.e., capable of withstanding the effects of EMPs. But this may be more of an electro-magical pulse. 😉

shadowrider98 October 6, 2015 at 2:23 pm - #49

@oakranger

“One second things are peaceful in London. Next second their is a guy wearing a duster staring oddly at a blue metal machine shaped like a weird creature. Next that creature suddenly stops moving(electrical surge erased all the data in his software!) Dresden looks around confused opens up a portal, statue explodes, blast absorbed into the fey.
Dresden dies because Mab, Titania, the Earl King, and all the gods ever get mad about the nuclear fireball that blew up part of their place”
–
sorry to say that it’ll never happen due to metal sonic’s supersonic speeds,he’ll end up crashing into harry and brutally killing him before he can even react(yes his systems might malfunction but the likelihood of metal sonic not crashing into harry and just blasting off into space is very low and would take a merical for it to happen) then after a while restarting himself and leaving with some major damages to his body plus he’d end up exploding the moment his reactor fails since harry can’t control his ability of destroying technology so it’ll be really hard for him to destroy metal sonic’s critical systems without destroying anything along with it and killing himself in the process.
–
and you pretty much have the fact that he is as fast as sonic and is able to attain the speeds has attained just as fast as him,that’s how was able to keep up with sonic this whole time and then you have the fact that he can use chaos control since he had already stolen the ability to do that from shadow.

Friendlysociopath October 6, 2015 at 2:24 pm - #50

The first thing to go would be all of Metal Sonics Software.
–
Again, there is no way to prove that would happen. It’s random- there is no logic to it; in every scene we’ve been given where he messes stuff up it has been hit-and-miss.
We can’t calc that properly.
–
Or metal sonic moves as fast as he can towards Dresden, systems malfunction and he suddenly starts going up, head first through the moon and towards the sun without any control because of said malfunction.
–
Alternatively, everything works fine and he goes straight for Dresden. Maybe only his hearing goes out or something- this is the problem with random powers.

Mea quidem sententia October 6, 2015 at 2:33 pm - #51

@Friendlysociopath
Quite true. If only the effects were consistent: any technology within a range of a 50 foot radius or less will simply shut down. I suspect that because of Metal Sonic’s appearance, Harry might think Metal Sonic will be a non-factor, and so do nothing because he has seen technology around him malfunction or shut down. With this kind of mentality, it could hurt Harry’s attempt at winning because again, if Metal Sonic is moving only at sonic speed, then Harry will only have 44 milliseconds to react. It takes 300 to 400 milliseconds to blink. If Metal Sonic decided to go Mach 5, then Harry only has 8.89 milliseconds to react.

shadowrider98 October 6, 2015 at 2:42 pm - #52

so metal sonic wins?

Aelfinn October 6, 2015 at 3:16 pm - #53

Isn’t current incarnation of Metal Sonic the one from Sonic Boom? You know, the really, really shitty game where Sonic and co. are subsonic?

shadowrider98 October 6, 2015 at 3:44 pm - #54

@Aelfinn
yeah,but I don’t really see how that’s really relevant as the OP never stated which metal sonic it specifically was that we are able to use thus allowing us to use all forms of him.

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 3:48 pm - #55

“Isn’t current incarnation of Metal Sonic the one from Sonic Boom? You know, the really, really shitty game where Sonic and co. are subsonic?”
–
I wouldn’t know, since I didn’t play it. I had partially intended for this to be OAV Hyper Metal Sonic. Last Sonic game I played to completion was SA2:Battle

OriginalA October 6, 2015 at 4:03 pm - #56

I forgot Sonic Boom exists.
–
If this is Hyper Metal Sonic then… I don’t know. The OVA isn’t technically tied into any of the games so the feats don’t exactly cross over. That said, would be an excuse to watch the OVA again.

Alpha or Omega October 6, 2015 at 4:13 pm - #57

@Aelfinn
If you just google search “Is Sonic Boom a Reboot,” you’ll get that it’s just a “different branch” in the Sonic Universe.
venturebeat.com/2014/06/02/dont-call-it-a-reboot-sonic-boom-is-just-a-different-branch-of-the-sonic-universe/
/
But, I don’t think it matters really since the collective of the people are arguing for the non-Sonic Boom version while one person is arguing with the Archie one.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 4:19 pm - #58

“But he doesn’t use other kinds of guns besides a revolver. This implies that he can’t stop himself from jamming them.”
–
He can suppress it as the effect as noted in the the qoute. He doesn’t want to have to worry about that when he’s facing monsters.
===
“It’s still random though, every quote presented has shown only some of the exact same objects being affected.
Mall: Only some guns
Stage: Only some cameras”
–
What are you talking about, he took out everything in the studio. Just like what he said could happen if he wanted to, did happen with a more explosive result.
===
“I got absolutely zero impression of that. It looks utterly random, with higher chances depending on how much he’s holding back. It doesn’t look like he gets to actually pick.”
–
I could’ve sworn someone already linked a feat where he intentionally screwed with tech.
“Greene spat a curse and reached for his radio, presumably to summon goons.

Greene was an ass.

Maybe I was going a little hex-happy, but I muttered something under my breath and made a little effort. Sparks shot out of the radio and were followed by curls of smoke. Greene stood there cursing as he tried to get the thing to work. “Dammit, Dresden,” he snarled. “Get out before I have you taken downtown.””
Proven Guilty, Chap 21
–
Some things explode and some don’t but generally when he wants tech to stop functioning the end result it that it stops functioning.
===
“Arrows with the force of bullets?”
–
Mentioned it as a more of a RT or reflex feat
Arrows that sounded like gunshots. Which normally do to a sonicboom right?
===
“As for the C-4, how large was this explosion?”
–
Didn’t say, just that it blasted it out from a deep cavern that was destroyed in the process.
“The explosives went off.

Cleverness, determination, treachery, ruthlessness, courage, and skill took a leave of absence, while physics took over the show.
–
Tremendous heat and force expanded from the explosives. It swept through the cavern in an almighty sword of fire, laying low anything unfortunate enough to have remained within. I saw, for one flash-second, the outline of the ghouls, still charging us, unaware of what was about to happen, against the white-hot fireball that expanded through the chamber.
–
And then that blast hit my shield.
–
I didn’t try to withstand that incredible sledgehammer of expanding force and energy. It would have shattered my shield, melted my bracelet to my wrist, and crushed me like an egg. The shield wasn’t meant to do that.
–
Instead, I filled the space at the mouth of the cave with flexible, resilient energy, and packed layer upon layer of it behind the shield, and more of it all around us. I wasn’t trying to stop the energy of the explosion.
–
I was trying to catch it.
–
There was an instant of crushing compression, and I felt the pressure on my shield like a vast and liquid weight. It flung me from my feet, and I held hard to Lara, whose arms gripped me in return. I began to tumble, blinded by the flame, and fought to hold the shield, now hardening it all around us, into a sphere, constricting it around us until we were pressed body-to-body. We hurtled up the tunnel, flung out ahead of the explosion like a ship ahead of a hurricane – or, more accurately, like a ball being fired down the barrel of a long, stony musket. The shield banged against the smooth walls, dragging more effort out of me. A single outcropping might have stopped our progress for a disastrous instant, shattering stone, shield, succubus, and shamus into one big mess. Thank God the vanity of Lara’s family had made sure the walls of the tunnel were polished smooth and gleaming.
–
I didn’t see the ghouls guarding the upper reaches of the tunnel, so much as I felt them hit the shield and be smashed aside and splattered like bugs, only to be consumed by the flood of fire washing up the tunnel after us. I don’t know how fast we were going, beyond “very.” The explosion flung us up the long tunnel, and out into the night air and up through the branches of a couple of trees – which shattered under the force. Then we were arcing through the night, spinning, with stars above us whipping by and a long tongue of angry flame emerging from the entrance to the Deeps below.
===
“Alternatively, everything works fine and he goes straight for Dresden.”
–
Considering what tends to happen even when he isn’t focusing on a single thing, the best thing Metal Sonic can hope for is going blind.

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 4:20 pm - #59

I suppose we can use whatever anyone wants to use, really.
–
Here’s some videos though.
–
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlxCNhIlZMI
–
Fight starts at the 6 minute mark in that first video, by the way. Following is the second fight with Metal Sonic in the OVA.
–
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bEuwotzuVs
–
This following link is the fight with it in Sonic Generations.
–
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9euWB6birZ8
–
And a fight with Metal Sonic in Sonic 3D.
–
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj0z6e7-yrU
–
Most notable are the facts that it can suffer pain, burn out, and be electrocuted, and still keep going. All three of these things suggest it has on board repair systems, since a machine can’t keep going once it’s busted up. In particular, the pain is a response to something being damage, but Metal then over comes it and resumes combat. Suggesting whatever Sonic busted was fixed.

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 4:26 pm - #60

And a quick search has revealed that he apparently got a big upgrade in Sonic Heroes.. huh. Freaky.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 4:41 pm - #61

“I suspect that because of Metal Sonic’s appearance, Harry might think Metal Sonic will be a non-factor, and so do nothing because he has seen technology around him malfunction or shut down.”
–
Actually it would more likely cause him to try and spam as much magical power in his direction to increase the anti-tech effect in addition to weaponizing the anti-tech effect.
===
Would anything happen to Metal sonic if all the heat were suddenly ripped out of him and he was frozen solid?
Or grasps by TK or magnetism?

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 4:42 pm - #62

And looked up Sonic Boom. Although Sonic is obviously a lot slower in this than he was in Adventure 2, Metal doesn’t seem particularly different.
–
He obnoxiously easily out paces this sonic, actually. Going far, far faster when he wants to as one of his attacks, which is par for the course, but how much faster is now kind of comedic since Sonic is now so much slower.
–
He retains the typical energy manipulation abilities, in this case, using it to launch a ranged attack. As well as super durability, crashing through objects with ease and taking hit after hit after hit.
–
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhwK_H-IDCw
–
I’m sure there are some differences (OVA and Generations depict him with a shield, for instance, where as Generations and Sonic Boom depict him with energy blasts), but that’s it, really. All of the versions which I linked to share obnoxious durability feats.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 4:51 pm - #63

“I suppose we can use whatever anyone wants to use, really.”
–
So does Dresden get whatever gear he’s used as well?

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 4:53 pm - #64

Metal Sonic hasn’t shown any weakness to cold, to my knowledge. In particular, in the OVA, he fought in the arctic with out issue.
–
If grabbed by a “mystical force” such as TK or Magnetism, he’d probably lob an energy blast once immobile? I mean his options are limited then, assuming Harry is strong enough to stop him dead, and quick thinking enough to do that before he’s splattered..

shadowrider98 October 6, 2015 at 5:02 pm - #65

metal sonic does have his Plasma pulse chest laser which he can spam from a distance

Nobunaga Jin October 6, 2015 at 5:36 pm - #66

Wait, Sauroposeidon, you’ve never played Sonic Heroes? Huh…I just assumed everyone played it here…then again, it wasn’t something that I really thought about. :/

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 5:43 pm - #67

“within a range of a 50 foot radius or less will simply shut down. ”
–
Stealthy disables camera’s while maintaining an invisibility spell from 90 feet away.
“We got to within thirty yards of the fence, and I paused. I lifted my staff, pointed it at the first sentry camera, and whispered, “Hexus.”
–
I wasn’t used to holding something as demanding as a veil in one hand while performing another working with the other – even such an easy spell as a technology hex. For a second, I thought I’d lose the veil, but then it stabilized again. The lights on the camera had gone out.
–
We moved around the perimeter while I hexed the other two cameras into useless junk, but just as I’d taken down camera number three, Susan gripped my arm and pointed. The foot patrol was moving by on their sweep.
-Changes, Chap 17
===
“Metal Sonic hasn’t shown any weakness to cold, to my knowledge. In particular, in the OVA, he fought in the arctic with out issue.”
–
How about being frozen to the point that shooting you causes you to shatter?
“Infriga!” I barked, and made a ripping gesture with my left hand. I tore the fire from the stricken vampire – and then some. I sent the resulting fireball skipping over to the next form – and left the first target as a block of ice where the damp jungle air had emptied its water over the vampire’s body and locked it into place, rigid and very slightly luminous with the residue of the cold energy I felt in me, the gift of Queen Mab. Which was just as well – there were a dozen closing attackers in my immediate field of vision alone, which meant another fifty or sixty of them if they were circling in from all around us, plus the ones I couldn’t see, who may have employed more mundane techniques of stealth to avoid the eye.
–
I wanted them to see what I could do.
–
The second vampire fell as easily as the first, as did the third, and only then did I say quietly, “One bullet apiece, Martin.”
–
Martin’s silenced pistol coughed three times, and the slightly glowing forms of the ice-enclosed vampires shattered into several dozen pieces each, falling to the ground where the luminous energy of Winter began to bleed slowly away, along with the ice-riddled flesh.

They got the point. The vampires stopped advancing. The jungle became still.

“Fire and ice,” murmured the Leanansidhe. “Excellent, my godson. Anyone can play with an element. Few can manipulate opposites with such ease.”
Changes, Chap 42
–
Doesn’t metal get brittle when frozen as well?
===
I saw lava or something melt metal sonic
Dresden’s flames get hot enough to melt sand.
“Then I called fire and melted the sand around the ghoul’s exposed head into a sheet of glass.

It screamed and screamed, which did not matter to me in the least. The sheer heat of the molten sand burned away its features, its eyes, its lips and tongue, even as the trauma forced the ghoul into its true form.”
White Knight, Chap 23
===
Can set fires underneath something’s skin
“I called up the Hellfire again, and with a snarl cast out the simple spell I use to light candles. Backed by Hellfire, directed by my fury, it lashed out at the ghoul, plunged beneath its skin, and there it set fat and nerves and sinews alight. They burned, burned using the ghoul for tallow, and the thing went mad with the pain.
–
I reached down to the ghoul, caught him by the remains of his robes, and hauled him up to my eye level, ignoring the little runnels of flame that occasionally licked up from the inferno beneath the ghoul’s skin.”
White Knight, Chap 23
===
“If grabbed by a “mystical force” such as TK or Magnetism, he’d probably lob an energy blast once immobile? I mean his options are limited then, assuming Harry is strong enough to stop him dead, and quick thinking enough to do that before he’s splattered..”
–
It helps that Metal sonic does seem to have a charge up time. It’s shown both in the movie before he starts fighting with his engine and in the game for some of his attacks.
Also being manipulated would probably make it difficult to aim said projectiles right?

Mea quidem sententia October 6, 2015 at 7:02 pm - #68

@Ninja Lowk
Mentioned it as a more of a RT or reflex feat
Arrows that sounded like gunshots. Which normally do to a sonicboom right?
–
I don’t think arrows can travel at sonic speed because they’d probably break apart by air friction. Still, yes, a sonic boom would be generated by an object traveling at the speed of sound.
–
Didn’t say, just that it blasted it out from a deep cavern that was destroyed in the process.
–
Either way, I’m sure that’s more energy than what we’ve witnessed so far, so Harry should be able to withstand a lot of energy with his shield and with the way he can manipulate it. Here’s also a plus for Harry. Because this explosion occurred in an enclosed area, the overpressure would be much higher. C-4 has a detonation pressure of 275 kilobar with a density of 1.58 grams/cm^3. 275 kilobars are equal to 27.5 gigapascals, which if I may say, makes Kain’s durability look weak.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 8:19 pm - #69

“I don’t think arrows can travel at sonic speed because they’d probably break apart by air friction.”
–
Well the scene is a wizard riding a t-rex brought back to life by magic facing off against magically enhanced zombies. I think supernaturally tough arrows would probably be the least weird thing about that scenario.

Sauroposeidon October 6, 2015 at 9:20 pm - #70

“Stealthy disables camera’s while maintaining an invisibility spell from 90 feet away.”
–
A latent ability and an actively cast spell are two different things. No one has yet argued that he can’t hurl spells at a distance.
–
“Doesn’t metal get brittle when frozen as well?”
–
Everything gets more brittle when extremely cold. However, it would obviously take a lot more to do that to metal sonic than to a person.
–
“Can set fires underneath something’s skin”
–
Not sure how that’s useful.
–
“It helps that Metal sonic does seem to have a charge up time. It’s shown both in the movie before he starts fighting with his engine and in the game for some of his attacks.
Also being manipulated would probably make it difficult to aim said projectiles right?”
–
I guess? I’m not Metal Sonic.
–
That’s assuming Metal doesn’t just torso twist to face him mid air.
–
Or, you know, copy his magical abilities and start hurling them back at him

Mea quidem sententia October 6, 2015 at 9:41 pm - #71

@Ninja Lowk
Indeed.

Ninja Lowk October 6, 2015 at 11:43 pm - #72

“A latent ability and an actively cast spell are two different things. No one has yet argued that he can’t hurl spells at a distance.”
–
The spell is like the suppressor magic. Only instead trying to not let it out at all it’s directing the effect.
Chuck watched me as I walked out of the garage. I looked around until I spotted the power lines running into the house, and then I followed the trench they were buried in back to the street until I got to the transformer. I looked up at it, glanced around a little guiltily, and sighed. Then I waved my hand at the thing, exerted my will, and muttered, “Hexus.”
–
Wizards and technology don’t get along. At all. Prolonged exposure to an active wizard has really detrimental effects on just about anything manufactured after World War II or so, especially anything involving electricity. My car breaks down every couple of weeks, and that’s when I’m not even trying. When I’m making an effort?
–
The transformer exploded in a humming shower of blue-white sparks, and the sound of an electric saw, somewhere on the site, died down to nothing.”
-Side Jobs
–
He’s basically channeling/focusing the bad rather then letting it all hang out.
There are already examples of what happens when he just doesn’t care and it end poorly for all the tech surrounding him. Whether they explode or not, they aren’t operational afterwards.
===
“Everything gets more brittle when extremely cold. However, it would obviously take a lot more to do that to metal sonic than to a person.”
–
True, he might need more then a gunshot. Harry does have a few feat regarding force and explosions like
“The explosion of force and fire tore a crater in the ground seven feet across and half as deep.”
or
“The sigils on the staff burst into sudden, hellish scarlet light, as bright as the blaze of my shield, and shimmering waves of force flowed out from me. They flooded out over the sidewalk, under the Toyota parked on the street nearest Cowl. I snarled with effort, and the Hellfire force abruptly lashed up, underneath the street side of the car. The car flipped up as lightly and quickly as a man overturning a kitchen chair.”
So once he brittles him he does have some more hard hitting stuff then a gun.
–
Plus I don’t think surviving the artic temperature compares to the flash freezing Dresden is capable of.
===
“Not sure how that’s useful.”
–
Heat high enough to melt metals+the ability to make something spontaneously combust from the inside=Bad day for that thing.
===
“Or, you know, copy his magical abilities and start hurling them back at him”
–
Harry’s magic requires a few things to function. One of which is being a living thing, which already disqualifies him. Also, belief in the spell. A soul. Emotions. There also the knowledge and skill you have to have in order to correctly do it.
–
There’s also the fact that even if he could in fact copy Dresden magic. He would be inadvertently using the thing that doesn’t play well with technology. Which probably isn’t something he wants.
===
“That’s assuming Metal doesn’t just torso twist to face him mid air.”
–
He could just move him again to wear he isn’t point at him. Maybe into the ground or something.

shadowrider98 October 7, 2015 at 8:22 am - #73

still given the fact that metal sonic is able to move at super sonic speeds which he can attain easily,it’ll be really hard to freeze or melt him(or put any spell on him for that matter,unless harry can react at super sonic speeds before metal slams into him ending the fight) plus he’ll just end up exploding like a nuke and taking harry with him so harry’s magic is not gonna be that helpful cause metal will just be to fast and since he already copied chaos control from shadow,he’ll be an even harder target to hit and the only way to beat metal is to make him dysfunctional which is easier said than done

Sauroposeidon October 7, 2015 at 8:24 am - #74

“The spell is like the suppressor magic. Only instead trying to not let it out at all it’s directing the effect.”
–
I’m not arguing that he can’t cast a directed spell. I’m not sure what you think you’re debating.
–
All I said is that the ability to try and throw an attack up to 90 feet away is not the same as a perpetual latent area of effect.
–
The ability to cast the spell up to 90 feet does not mean that once Metal is with in 90 feet that it is automatically going to begin malfunctioning.
–
That is my entire point.
–
“Plus I don’t think surviving the artic temperature compares to the flash freezing Dresden is capable of.”
–
Considering the explosive impacts Metal and Sonic were making when they fought and the fact that it was burrowing through ice. The only thing that destroyed it was being completely submerged in magma. The arctic may not be as cold as his spells but freezing flesh isn’t THAT impressive since that is what happens to you eventually anyways in the arctic, or antarctic. I don’t think a freezing spell followed with an explosive spell will do anything more than give Metal enough time to do an energy shield ram in to him since he’s taking the time to do two spells and this robot is coming at him at hyper sonic speeds.
–
If Harry wants to win, he will need to be defensive in his tactics. Playing offense will leave him too open to counter attacks to an enemy that I’m beginning to realize is physically too strong for him and probably shouldn’t have been matched up against him. I see I’ve let the Harry hype on this site cloud my choices, making me overestimate him. I thought this guy was a lot more powerful.
–
“Heat high enough to melt metals+the ability to make something spontaneously combust from the inside=Bad day for that thing.”
–
Setting someone’s fat on fire when they don’t have fat might be difficult. It’s a fairly useless spell in comparison to his arsenal of attacks he could potentially use on Metal.
–
My comment still stands.
–
“Harry’s magic requires a few things to function. One of which is being a living thing, which already disqualifies him. Also, belief in the spell. A soul. Emotions. There also the knowledge and skill you have to have in order to correctly do it.”
–
And you need legs to run as fast as Sonic, but Metal flies. How did it use Sonic’s data in order to become a faster flier? The point is, once it understands the mechanics of your ability, it presumably can copy them.
–
“He could just move him again to wear he isn’t point at him. Maybe into the ground or something.”
–
How does that stop him from torso twisting? Even if he’s locked in one spot all he has to do is spin some gears and his torso could be facing Harry even if the rest of him is not. He’d have to be reacting faster than Metal.. which we know is very unlikely right now.
–
Unrelated note.
–
I went and watched Metal Sonic’s big fight in Heroes. That definitely wasn’t quite what I had in mind for this fight. That’d be way over powered with the crystal attack spam it can pull off in that draconic form it takes.

Sauroposeidon October 7, 2015 at 8:39 am - #75

” since he already copied chaos control from shadow”
–
But did he ever actually use it? Some abilities he seems to ignore. Like time stop. Unless that’s what his crystal attacks were all about in Heroes since they locked characters down. They spoke after being trapped though so I don’t think that’s the case.

Belisaurius October 7, 2015 at 2:57 pm - #76

Didn’t Shadow need a chaos emerald to use Chaos Control?
–
Also, in regards to the apparent nuke in MS’s stomache, keep in mind that nuclear warheads are actually pretty hard to set off. If the charges are misaligned or the timing is off you’d get an explosion but no nuclear reaction. In fact, one of the failsafes on nuclear weapons is to force the bomb to detonate improperly, scattering the fissionables rather than compressing them.

Alpha or Omega October 7, 2015 at 4:31 pm - #77

@Sauro
While it wasn’t what you had in mind, I want to point out that Metal Sonic can’t achieve that. The Draconic form is not his current incarnation, and it required one of Eggman’s huge fleet ship to acquire the Metal Madness/Metal Overlord forms.
/
IIRC, the current incarnation is either Sonic Rivals 2 or Sonic Free Riders(basically the Metal Sonic you normally see).
/
@Belisaurius
“Didn’t Shadow need a chaos emerald to use Chaos Control?”
/
He used to. Then, Sega decided he wasn’t cool enough, so when Shadow got his own game, they decided he can teleport just by willing himself to.

shadowrider98 October 7, 2015 at 5:01 pm - #78

@Alpha or Omega

“While it wasn’t what you had in mind, I want to point out that Metal Sonic can’t achieve that. The Draconic form is not his current incarnation, and it required one of Eggman’s huge fleet ship to acquire the Metal Madness/Metal Overlord forms”
–
it wasn’t stated that he specifically needed one of eggman’s huge fleet ships(at least from what I heard in the final battle and from what I read in the sonic wiki) so I guess we can say that if he finds something big enough on the battlefield he would be able to make the transformation.

Nsl98 October 7, 2015 at 5:09 pm - #79

so I guess we can say that if he finds something big enough on the battlefield he would be able to make the transformation.
—
If he’s only ever done it once while using another object, why should we assume he can do it with just any big object? Can you find an instance of him going Draconic without an Eggman ship?

Alpha or Omega October 7, 2015 at 5:27 pm - #80

@shadowrider98
From what I seen in cutscenes, in order for that to happen, he needed to use his scanning to copy abilities from everyone in that game and then, destroy a portion of Eggman’s Fleetship to gain that form.
/
I don’t think he has enough people to scan if it’s one person he’s facing.

oakranger October 7, 2015 at 5:53 pm - #81

You know something I think metal losses!
–
He rushes Dresden making the space between them smaller. As he gets closer Dresden’s ability takes affect faster with more results. He gets closer and closer and the effects get more and more prominent. True, Dresden will die in a few short milliseconds, but metal sonic is gone before he actually hits him.
–
At one point you said he would run around him for a while, well close proximity to angry wizard not good!
–
One more feat from Dresden that might help clean up this mess
LUCK OF LUNITICS, FOOLS, AND HEROS

shadowrider98 October 7, 2015 at 6:03 pm - #82

@Nsl98

“If he’s only ever done it once while using another object, why should we assume he can do it with just any big object? Can you find an instance of him going Draconic without an Eggman ship?”
–
in the sonic wiki it says that In order to beat his arch-rival Sonic the Hedgehog and eventually claim world domination himself, Metal Sonic sought to become strong enough to achieve his ambitions. To this end, he staged Team Sonic’s, and later Team Rose’s, Team Dark’s and Team Chaotix’s adventures in Sonic Heroes so he could collect both theirs and Chaos’ data in order to become Metal Overlord, his most powerful form to date. In order to reach this form, Metal Madness proved to be a necessary step during this transformation.

At the beginning of the Sonic Heroes’ Last Story storyline, Neo Metal Sonic reveals himself to Team Sonic, Team Rose, Team Dark and later Team Chaotix, and announces himself as their new ruler, before shooting a lightning bolt into the sky. The lightning bolt soon comes back down and blows up the command tower upon which Neo Metal Sonic stands on. By then manipulating the debris from the tower, Neo Metal Sonic constructs Metal Overlord’s main body and then merges himself with it, becoming Metal Madness and roars in triumph. sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Madness
and then you’ve got the fact that metal sonic has downloaded info of all his losses to sonic and everyone else so it’s really not such a stretch to say that he can merge himself with any large object as he already has that info downloaded in to him and the wiki states that he used the debris from the fallen command tower to construct his draconic form and just merges himself with the ship which was the only thing around at that time.
–
“From what I seen in cutscenes, in order for that to happen, he needed to use his scanning to copy abilities from everyone in that game and then, destroy a portion of Eggman’s Fleetship to gain that form.”
–
well like I said before he does have all the info of all his losses downloaded into him and(at least from what I have read/saw)his memory was never erased so I think he could just tap into it(if harry doesn’t fry it first) and be able to use the old scans to build his form.

shadowrider98 October 7, 2015 at 6:10 pm - #83

there wasn’t any other time he used that form though,so I wouldn’t be able to post any evidence that he is able to do it without the ship,but that doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t though as he was able to construct that form with fallen debris form the command tower and it didn’t necessarilystate that he needed to fuse himself with the ship to complete the transformation.

shadowrider98 October 7, 2015 at 7:00 pm - #84

@oakranger

metal sonic can just restart as he has a second core and he was able to fully function with his entire bottom half sliced “Metal Sonic was sent by Dr. Eggman to hunt down and kill Sally Acorn after she sneaked inside the Death Egg and stole files from the Egg Network.[18] It successfully tracked down Sally at Mobotropolis where it fought against her Amy Rose, Cream the Rabbit, and Cheese. However, even the four and the Royal Guard could not subdue it until Sonic showed up and gloated it into a race. The two raced outside of Mobotropolis, only for Miles “Tails” Prower shot down the robot with missiles from the Tornado. However, Metal Sonic was not completely destroyed, but its lower body was ripped apart. Still functioning, Metal Sonic vowed revenge and flew off. sonic wiki sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Metal_Sonic_(Archie) off so I still think he takes this but with a lot of damage done to him.

Ninja Lowk October 7, 2015 at 10:29 pm - #85

“That is my entire point.”
–
Oh.
===
“The arctic may not be as cold as his spells but freezing flesh isn’t THAT impressive since that is what happens to you eventually anyways in the arctic, or antarctic.”
–
It kind of is. The artic Eventually freezes you and normally that’s the outside. It generally around -40 to 30 something degrees.
What he did was instantly freeze people inside and out. Something that I’m not even sure liquid nitrogen is capable of, not as thoroughly or as quick at least; maybe freeze just the layers of the skin but nothing like completely frozen to the point of a person shattering in an instant. That is a whole other level of cold.
From what I’ve seen Metal doesn’t have a feat against that.
===
“If Harry wants to win, he will need to be defensive in his tactics. Playing offense will leave him too open to counter attacks to an enemy that I’m beginning to realize is physically too strong for him and probably shouldn’t have been matched up against him.”
–
Defensively, just using his shield has proven to negatively effect tech. Besides that, he can turn invisible, make a hologram of himself for distractions, and redirect energy. Also he can enahnce his spells with soul fire to make them tougher, more durable, or more powerful.
–
Offensively, fire hotter then magma. Freezing things solid which would do both damage to the exterior struture’s intergrity as well as the insides. Channeling lightning at someone. TK. Magantism. And the spell that disables all of Metals technology.
Plus he is still capable of using some of his offensive stuff with his defense. Like magnatism, tk, and technological disruption.
===
“I thought this guy was a lot more powerful.”
–
So far he is capable of either disabling Metal’s tech, freezing him to the point he his exterior becomes brittle. And being capable of holding him in place.
===
“Setting someone’s fat on fire when they don’t have fat might be difficult. It’s a fairly useless spell in comparison to his arsenal of attacks he could potentially use on Metal.
–
My comment still stands.”
–
It’s not useless when he has gone on to show that he is capable of attaining heat that melts metal. He is capable of spawning that heat on the insides of something. Burning fat doesn’t matter if he’s just melting metal’s inside. molten metal probablyisn’t going to be doing any favors to the rest of his insides.
===
“The point is, once it understands the mechanics of your ability, it presumably can copy them.”
–
Unless he pulls a Pinocchio, understanding won’t really help him with using Dresden’s magic. And again using Dresden magic would be doing damage to himself via the anti-tech effect.
===
“How does that stop him from torso twisting?”
–
Freezing him. Planting his body onto the ground so all turning will do is point it into the air. Hexing him so he no longer works.
===
“it’ll be really hard to freeze or melt”
–
There’s nothing for him to dodge. Both effect spawn on his target.
===
“ince he’s taking the time to do two spells”
–
If he is completely frozen I don’t think he is going to be doing much of any movement.
===
“unless harry can react at super sonic speeds before metal slams into him ending the fight) plus he’ll just end up exploding like a nuke and taking harry with him”
–
He’s has brought up shields fast enough to deflect things that have broken the sound barrier. Also Like I mentioned earlier Metal Sonic has shown twice that it takes a second of two to, in a manner of speaking, rev up before fighting sonic at super speed.

Sauroposeidon October 8, 2015 at 12:49 am - #86

“From what I’ve seen Metal doesn’t have a feat against that.”
–
You kind of have to prove it would freeze him solid, though..
–
Freezing flesh is not the same as making metal insanely brittle.
–
“So far he is capable of either disabling Metal’s tech, freezing him to the point he his exterior becomes brittle. And being capable of holding him in place.”
–
And he goes down to one attack from Metal if his luck doesn’t hold out..
–
He’s literally relying on luck to win this.
–
“It’s not useless when he has gone on to show that he is capable of attaining heat that melts metal. He is capable of spawning that heat on the insides of something. Burning fat doesn’t matter if he’s just melting metal’s inside. molten metal probablyisn’t going to be doing any favors to the rest of his insides.”
–
Except.. Metal burns himself out using some of his attacks.. I don’t get what you’re going for. We see him smoking and hurt. Then he recovers.
–
“Unless he pulls a Pinocchio, understanding won’t really help him with using Dresden’s magic. And again using Dresden magic would be doing damage to himself via the anti-tech effect.”
–
Why would he use the anti-tech effect? He’d just use Harry’s best stuff against him instead.
–
“Freezing him. Planting his body onto the ground so all turning will do is point it into the air.”
–
So he sits up and fires..
–
“There’s nothing for him to dodge. Both effect spawn on his target.”
–
Seems to me that he has to aim the wand to make the spell do what he wants from the quotes.
–
“If he is completely frozen I don’t think he is going to be doing much of any movement.”
–
I am highly dubious of his ability to completely lock Metal down and restrict any movement.
–
“He’s has brought up shields fast enough to deflect things that have broken the sound barrier. Also Like I mentioned earlier Metal Sonic has shown twice that it takes a second of two to, in a manner of speaking, rev up before fighting sonic at super speed.”
–
What are you going on about? If it took Metal seconds to pull off anything then Sonic would have easily trounced him every time. Instead, he’s Sonic’s biggest rival. He revved his engine ONCE before the very first fight.

Ninja Lowk October 8, 2015 at 3:55 am - #87

“You kind of have to prove it would freeze him solid, though..”
–
He preformed a feat that something one of the colder things in the human arsenal could not achieve. Were talking hundreds of degrees colder then anything that has been brought up Metal has gone up against.
Your’re going to have to prove that he can resist something like that. Being in the artic isn’t going to cut it.
===
“And he goes down to one attack from Metal if his luck doesn’t hold out..”
–
He has a shield so no. He can stop him in place with at least three different things withouth besides the anti tech field or spell.
He doesn’t need luck when it is shown mutliple times technology fails around him; catastrophically when he’s not holding it back. Only luck involved is Metal Sonic if Dresden is restraining the anti techness.
===
“He’s literally relying on luck to win this.”
–
No he isn’t.
-Three ways to stop Metal Sonic or control his movements. Four to five with both the passive and focused tech disabling ability.
-A defensive barrier to protect him from going splat.
-At least two ways to escape from sight and distract.
-Two ways to melt or break him apart.
===
“Except.. Metal burns himself out using some of his attacks.. I don’t get what you’re going for. We see him smoking and hurt. Then he recovers.”
–
And he get destoryed via lava. He’s could be melted alive from the inside out rather then falling into lava is what I’m getting at.
===
“Why would he use the anti-tech effect?”
–
The anti-tech stuff is a by-product of Harry’s magic.
===
“So he sits up and fires..”
–
How is he going to set up when he’s being crushed into the ground? Immediately afterwards comes anti-tech spell that disables him. Or he gets frozen. Or melted down.
===
“Seems to me that he has to aim the wand to make the spell do what he wants from the quotes.”
–
Only for his projectile fire spells.
One is him just ripping the air. There’s nothing being direct at anything.
The other spawns fire where he wants.
i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/IMAG0575-1-1.jpg
i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/IMAG0573-1-1.jpg
No hand movements or or even looking at it required. Which would be evident since he wouldn’t have been able to see under the skin like in the qoute.
===
“If it took Metal seconds to pull off anything then Sonic would have easily trounced him every time.”
–
Most of the other times he was already going. The other two fight where it’s basically ready, fight he started up before going.
===
“He revved his engine ONCE before the very first fight.”
–
He also did something similar in the other animated fight right before they started fighting.
===
“I am highly dubious of his ability to completely lock Metal down and restrict any movement.”
–
I’m highly dubious of him resisting such a thing without a feat regarding him resisting something that outdoes liquid nitrogen.
===
EDIT and again, the best Metal sonic can hope for is that his optics being disabled and he’s blind.

Ninja Lowk October 8, 2015 at 4:26 am - #88

Seriously the random and luck thing is getting kind of old. Especially when it is shown that the only random thing about is how hard it’s wrecked.

When he is trying to screw up tech either purposefully trying or he just doesn’t care the machine(s) it either explodes, malfunctions, or just breaks; the end result is that machine is no longer capable of working anymore.
Disabled. Non-functional. Shut-down. Off. The opposite of operational. Unable to work in capacity to do the functions it was built to do. There is no “maybe possibly still might be able to” in that regard or “maybe just this thing”. Not unless he is purposefully trying not to do that by holding his magic back, THAT is when the luck comes in.

shadowrider98 October 8, 2015 at 8:08 am - #89

@Ninja Lowk

but then again metal sonic was able to stay fully functional when it had most of it’s lower body blown off so I’m pretty sure he’d be able to hold out for quiet a while,maybe even long enough to kill harry and so far harry’s shield is the only thing that is able to break the sound barrier(well at least from the info you’re giving) so I’d imagine that the whole fight would be harry sitting in his force field and metal sonic slamming his claws on to the shield from every possible direction or possibly firing continuously with his Plasma pulse chest laser while flying around in circles around harry and far enough away from him that his anti tech magic is unable to reach him then probably getting pissed off that non of his attacks are working and then leaving the field of battle to turn into metal madness or metal overlord.

Sauroposeidon October 8, 2015 at 10:01 am - #90

“He preformed a feat that something one of the colder things in the human arsenal could not achieve. Were talking hundreds of degrees colder then anything that has been brought up Metal has gone up against.”
–
So you’re going to pretend to know the inner mechanics of the spell now? Maybe it’s just an AOE effect. Everything in it was effected by that temperature, perhaps. So the cold didn’t have to freeze through starting from the outside in.
–
We can speculate all day, but in the end, all he did was freeze some meat. That’s not the same as rendering metal extremely brittle and even then we don’t have any reason to think it’ll effect Metal that much considering how he was operating in extreme environments which our machines today have a hard time doing.
–
I don’t have to prove shit. You’re just making the claim that freezing a person solid is going to effect a machine as bad or worse. Why? A machine which is more durable than real life machines, and has some kind of self repair abilities.
–
“He has a shield so no. He can stop him in place with at least three different things withouth besides the anti tech field or spell.”
–
You haven’t proven the shield can tank some of the stuff we’ve seen him dish out or that Harry would be able to stop him in time.
–
This is still a pretty nasty stomp for Metal.. but I should have expected the Dresden fanboys to not give up. I let myself believe the hype because I didn’t look in to it, and I’m regretting it now. This is like anyone vs Kharn all over again.
–
“How is he going to set up when he’s being crushed into the ground? Immediately afterwards comes anti-tech spell that disables him. Or he gets frozen. Or melted down.”
–
Because none of Harry’s attacks besides his anti-tech seems like it could hurt Metal.
–
And you haven’t really provided proof that he’d utterly restrict Metal. I was being nice in letting you assume he could just.. stop.. Metal sonic. But it’s looking like he’s just going to get speed blitzed right off the bat.
–
“No hand movements or or even looking at it required. Which would be evident since he wouldn’t have been able to see under the skin like in the qoute.”
–
He set some wood/wicks on fire.. Ok? We know this isn’t a spell specifically to do that?
–
Debating with poorly written magic is fun. =)
–
No. Not really..
–
This is why Harry Potter is considered well done magic. Shit makes more sense.
–
“EDIT and again, the best Metal sonic can hope for is that his optics being disabled and he’s blind.”
–
You’re literally just speculating at this point.
–
What if what happens is his knees lock up? How useless of an effect. Or maybe his turbine catches on fire and he burns out for a few seconds before he repairs.
–
Or maybe his eyes do go off line until he repairs them.
–
Again, the effects are random. Bitch all you want about us being unconvinced but when you’re relying on “Well maybe it will render Metal totally unable to fight in any way because otherwise he’s fucking Mach 5+ and makes giant ass explosions whenever he hits something and he’s gonna pulp Harry on the first hit”
–
I mean, it’s like you don’t notice that he’s blowing up entire road ways by force of ramming them either head on or with his shield in the games, and making huge explosions when he crashes in to sonic in the animation.
–
And again.. what if all that happens is he loses his energy projection? So he loses his shields, his energy pulses, his energy blasts, a wide array of his arsenal.. but that’s it.
–
Maybe he loses his ability to scan and he can’t copy Dresden’s magic. Which you haven’t countered because we know he’s copied supernatural abilities already like Shadow’s abilities, nor does he need to apparently be able to perfectly mimic HOW they do it, he just CAN do it once he’s scanned them.
–
But let’s say.. he can’t punch, kick, see, scan, or use energy projection, AND his turbine catches on fire, AND he suffers an electric overload in all of his systems.
–
Let’s say ALL of that happens.
–
Harry still has effectively a ballistic missile flying at him, one that, after it rips him in two from impact, is going to shake its head and get back up after a couple of seconds. It’s flying at him faster than a speeding bullet.
–
This is assuming he doesn’t engage in ranged combat, which was almost all he did for a major portion of his Sonic Boom fight.
–
Do you understand now why we’re bothered by this anti-tech thing being used as the game winner? Sure it’s nice to have, and it might help him win if something new comes up for him.. but SO MANY things have to go wrong in Metal, and he needs to be beaten up so badly, for Sonic to beat him.. and he still always comes back. He self repairs apparently and just comes back better and stronger. You’re claims that it’ll make him blind or some shit.. No. That’s as likely to be what goes wrong as anything else in the myriad of mechanical functions he does. But even if like 8 or 9 things happen at once, he’s so sturdy, and is so quick to repair, that a serious level of damage needs to be done instead of just a ton of lucky malfunctions or setting him on fire.
–
Because we’ve seen him set on fire. We’ve seen him electrocuted. We’ve seen him come back from it with in seconds.
–
So I’m getting tired of arguing it. You’re obviously not going to convince anyone who isn’t convinced right now that it’s going to get the job done. It is literally up to chance on what it does and even then it would have to make so many systems mess up at the same time to such a degree that it seems progressively unlikely to us that it will work as anything other than a distraction that will make Metal quickly resort to ranged bombardment.

Belisaurius October 8, 2015 at 11:06 am - #91

Harry catches MS with his shield. He’s carved a car in half with it when he was just a rookie and he’s far more powerful now. Since Dresden has a shield focus he doesn’t need to speak the spell, just will it into existence.

Ninja Lowk October 8, 2015 at 11:38 am - #92

“That’s not the same as rendering metal extremely brittle and even then we don’t have any reason to think it’ll effect Metal that much considering how he was operating in extreme environments which our machines today have a hard time doing.”
–
Yes it is, being able to make something cold enough to instantly freeze like that is enough to make metal brittle. That several degrees enough to make metal brittle, several degrees below just operating in the arctic.
===
“You’re just making the claim that freezing a person solid is going to effect a machine as bad or worse. ”
–
See you keep focusing on this flesh and metal thing instead of the temperature necessary for the feat to have been accomplished. He flashed froze something which is several degrees lower than anything that has been shown for him to deal with.
He didn’t blast it with cold or transmute them into into ice. He manipulated the temperature to the point it was so cold they instantly froze.
===
“You haven’t proven the shield can tank some of the stuff we’ve seen him dish out or that Harry would be able to stop him in time.”
–
It blocked a cavern full of C-4 that blasted him from the inside and sent him flying adn destoryed said caven. I’ve also shown him raising his shield fast enough to block supersonic objects.
===
.”but I should have expected the Dresden fanboys to not give up.”
–
Things could be going worse for you. You could’ve made a Metal Sonic vs Kain match.
===
“Because none of Harry’s attacks besides his anti-tech seems like it could hurt Metal.”
–
He has produced heat higher then lava. The thing that has destroyed him before. You still haven’t shown a resistance feat suitable to prove he could resist flash freezing.
And techinically all his spell are anti-tech. His magic is tech kryptonite and throwing it around his going to end up like that feat where all the tech around him died.
===
“He set some wood/wicks on fire.. Ok? We know this isn’t a spell specifically to do that?”
–
He can adjust how much energy he puts into his spells. Example, he can make enough force to pull a glass bottle to him without breaking it or he can use the same thing but put enough into it that a car flips over.
He can make small gouts of flames he can make large gouts of flames. Etc etc.
===
“You’re literally just speculating at this point.”
–
Speculating would be if there weren’t actually feats of what happens to mechanical equipment.
===
“What if what happens is his knees lock up? How useless of an effect. Or maybe his turbine catches on fire and he burns out for a few seconds before he repairs.”
–
I don’t know why your so stuck on it hitting one thing at a tome when it effects all technology. When I’ve given a both a statement about takeing out an entire floor’s worth of tech and a feat of the effect fucking up an entire room of tech.
===
“Or maybe his eyes do go off line until he repairs them.”
–
Why would a self-repair not be effected by the anti-tech? Is it not technological?
===
“Harry still has effectively a ballistic missile flying at him”
–
He has a shield that withstands explosions. the ability to create a small hurricane, magantism, and tk. That’s a lot of buffer. Plus you taken into the fact that he’d be losing speed all on it’s own, it running into all this other stuff he is capable of.
===
“This is assuming he doesn’t engage in ranged combat, which was almost all he did for a major portion of his Sonic Boom fight.”
–
Shield. Some of those ranged attack have a charge time.
===
“but SO MANY things have to go wrong in Metal”
–
No they don’t. He either gets shut-down or blown up.
===
” You’re claims that it’ll make him blind or some shit.. No. That’s as likely to be what goes wrong as anything else in the myriad of mechanical functions he does.”
–
Like I said, that a lowball considering the anti-tech has shown to not just fuck over one thing at a time.
===
“Because we’ve seen him set on fire.”
–
We’ve also seen him done in by lava.
===
” It is literally up to chance on what it does and even then it would have to make so many systems mess”
–
So far it hasn’t shown to effect one thing at a time unless Dresden wills it. Other then that all he can do with it is suppress it or express it.
Having “many systems” isn’t the the defense you think it is considering the effect has shown taking down many systems at once already.
Sooo, no not really up to chance. It’s up to chance whether or not he just shuts-down or explodes but the end priduct every time is that all the tech around is done in unless Dresden is trying to hold back his magic.
===
“Which you haven’t countered because we know he’s copied supernatural abilities”
–
It’s not about it being superatural. It’s about the specific requirements of his magic to use it. Metal Sonic hasn’t reached the real boy status to even get to the other requirements to get the magic functional. Nevermind the byproduct of using it would fuck him over like a junkie overdosing.

shadowrider98 October 8, 2015 at 11:38 am - #93

@Belisaurius
“Harry catches MS with his shield. He’s carved a car in half with it when he was just a rookie and he’s far more powerful now.”
–
then again metal sonic survived and was fully functional with his bottom half blown off so that doesn’t really make a difference plus I doubt a shield that is able to activate at super sonic speeds is able to catch something that is super sonic as so far their haven’t been any feats presented that show that.Even if he spells can be will’d into existence the fact that not any of them can activate at super sonic speeds makes them useless and even if they were able to activate at super sonic speeds,he’d have to hit metal sonic to in order to do any damage which so far no feats have been presented of harry hitting super sonic objects with his spells. .

Friendlysociopath October 8, 2015 at 11:50 am - #94

When I’ve given a both a statement about takeing out an entire floor’s worth of tech and a feat of the effect fucking up an entire room of tech.
–
You’ve given a statement saying he would not risk going in there because the entire floor is full of equipment that he dares not go near (life support). Messing up just one of them would take a life- he’s not willing to take the chance at such extreme odds.
And the feat of dropping an entire room of tech specifically did not take out all tech in the room.
One of the two surviving cameras exploded into fire, bluish flames rising up from out of the casing, and heavy power outlets along the walls started spitting orange and green sparks.
Nothing happened to the other camera, at all, from the given quotes.
Two of the guns jammed before dumping their full clip, and the others fell silent, spent.
Again, not 100% hit-rate.
–
Seriously the random and luck thing is getting kind of old.
–
Indeed it is, both of the given quotes have shown that it is NOT controlled and IS random.
You’re literally debating against your own source.
–
Sooo, no not really up to chance.
–
Yeeeeah the tech thing at least is. Can’t speak for anything else like shields or spells but the tech thing would be extremely based on chance.
Shields and spells depends on whether he can act before Metal Sonic blitzes him.

Ninja Lowk October 8, 2015 at 12:00 pm - #95

@Friendlysociopath
Well seems I should’ve re-read my quotes better.
Seems the passive anti-tech effects are random.
@Sauro
Sorry, My bad.
===
So for disabling, passive is in fact more up to chance and time. That means if Dresden wants a immediate pay-off he would have to use the active spell to actually get the definite result of shutting Metal down.

Jake_Uzumaki October 8, 2015 at 12:16 pm - #96

“Nothing happened to the other camera, at all, from the given quotes.”
–
I think it had already died while Dresden was restraining himself because they had gotten it too close to him. would need to double check.

Mea quidem sententia October 8, 2015 at 12:21 pm - #97

Metal Sonic’s body is made of monocoque titanium. Titanium has a melting point of 1,668°C and a boiling point of 3,287°C. If Harry wants to vaporize Metal Sonic, he would need to meet 425 kJ/mol. This is equal to 8,879 J/g. Metal Sonic is 125,200 grams, so this ends up being 1.112 GJ. To atomize, Harry would need to generate enough heat to produce 1.232 GJ.

Jake_Uzumaki October 8, 2015 at 12:33 pm - #98

I was right, before the quote you got that from, this happened
“Emotions have power. They fuel a lot of my magic. The fear hit me, and the pressure on the suppression spell redoubled. There was a flash of light and a puff of smoke from the nearest camera, and the operator staggered back from it, tearing off his headphones with one of the curses they have to edit out of daytime TV. Smoke began to rise steadily from the camera, along with the smell of burning rubber, and the studio monitors shrieked with feedback.”
Death Masks
–
@Mea
how hot would a jet of fire have to be to cause a thunderclap?
And Dresden has conjured concentrated oxyacetylene style flames before as well

Ninja Lowk October 8, 2015 at 12:50 pm - #99

Well if there is one way to solve this it be through numbers.
@Mea
How much energy are we talking for a blast that made a crater that was 7 feet wide and 3.5 feat deep?
Or burning a line in concrete that’s 2 feet deep and 7 feet long?
Edit: If you’ve got the time. I felt rude.

Friendlysociopath October 8, 2015 at 12:53 pm - #100

I think it had already died while Dresden was restraining himself because they had gotten it too close to him. would need to double check.
–
He pretty clearly says, “Two Surviving Cameras”. That means out of anything that happened before, two were still alive.
–
how hot would a jet of fire have to be to cause a thunderclap?
–
“Thunder” comes from lightning burning away all of the air. So essentially hot enough to make the “vacuum” that creates the thunder. The “Clap” is from the heated air ramming into the colder air.
Alternatively, it hit something really hard and that was the thunderclap; which would be something else entirely.
Is the exact quote in here already? If not- could you post it?

Metal Sonic Vs Harry Dresden

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