Sharpshooter FFA

Sharpshooter FFA

Suggested by Blaze

In this battle sharpshooters from varius universes would battle againts the others to win this battle:

The combatants:

Garrus Vakarian (Mass Effect)

Vaszilij Grigorjevics Zajcev

Simo Häyhä

The Imperial Sniper (SWTOR)

Caitlynn (League of Legends)

Strelok (S.TA.L.K.E.R.)

The Lone Wanderer (Fallout)

Nova (Starcraft)

Hunter (Metro 2033)

Master Chief (Halo)

Jonathan J. O’Neill (Stargate)

Han Solo (Star Wars)

Adam Jensen (Deus ex)

Jim Raynor (Starcraft)

Courier 6 (Fallout)

Agent 47 (Hitman)

Ivan (Metro 2033,Book: Pityer)

A Tenno (Warframe,without his/her warframe)*Optional,i don’t think it would be an autowin,so please tell me what you think?

Battlegrounds: Berlin after WWII

Stalingrad

Atlantis (Stargate,when it is on Earth)

The Citadel (Mass Effect)

The Stargate on Atlantis is not operating,bacause there is a hidden power source in the city, if someone want to escape through it ,he/she needs to find that.Everyone is awere of this.

The Citadel is unpopulated,but in perfect condition.There are a few shuttles left on it so if someone wants to escape they have to ind them.Everyone can pilot them.Everyone escaped with a few thing left back.

Rules:

1.No cheater guns/armor or “I win buttons”

2.Everyone is at their strongest point.

3.Everyone begins at a point far away from the others.

4.No TWS,Techno eyes,Night vison or anything that would easly detect others.

5.To win, someone(s) needs to kill others,or escape the place,on Berlin and Stalingrad there is no escape. 6.No “I heal myself to perfect condition in a second” items,there’s only natural wound healing.

7.Each stage takes 10 days,with each combatant begining for 3 days of food and water for a NORMAL human.

8.The combatants can use all weapons found.

9.The Battlers begin with no knowledge about the skills of the others,but they can learn from round to round.

Stage 1: Stalingrad during the siege,Vasszilij is deployed to kill the others,while the others is being teleported to random point of the city near the frontline,without of their advanced equipment. They will only get WWII gear.

Stage 2:Contiunation of stage 1,they can use lesser advanced gear. Berlin is in ruins in this,and the Red Army is in the city.They would shoot on sight everybody,even Vasszilij.

Stage 3:The citadel,everyone can use their gear,if it obeys the rules.

Stage 4:Atlantis,if someone uses the gate,and travels to a planet the fight continues there.

Final stage: It is a stage tooking place on every map,the combatants would be hunted by the Predator/Boba Fett/Colonel 100(Batllefield friends), I don’t know which to choose so i leavi this to you.In this stage no one gets gear,and the  one survevis for the most time wins this round.the survived time on each map I’d cumulative.

Who will win?

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97 Comments on "Sharpshooter FFA"

  1. pimpmage September 16, 2015 at 12:35 am -      #1

    No TF2 SNIPER?!?!?!? shame..

  2. lethal_gecko September 16, 2015 at 2:28 am -      #2

    Taken at face value, Caitlin can shoot through anything save for her target.

  3. Agent September 16, 2015 at 3:11 am -      #3

    Aw, no Vindicare either? A very nice match, one I hope to participate in come morning when I’m not half asleep, but aw, no vindi love.

  4. Ninja Lowk September 16, 2015 at 3:17 am -      #4

    “A Tenno (Warframe,without his/her warframe)*Optional,i don’t think it would be an autowin,so please tell me what you think?”

    A Tenno hasn’t really been show or noted to even still be in any condition to do anything without a Warframe. It’s like swappable skin. The best candidate would probably using
    Mesa
    www.dlh.net/public/data/Artworks/291/Warframe_Mesa.jpg
    Maybe no shields or shatter shield(reflects bullets), no shooting gallery(momentarily causes enemies guns to jam).
    ===
    “Each stage takes 10 days,with each combatant begining for 3 days of food and water for a NORMAL human.”

    Kind of unfair for Garrus. Pretty sure human food is poisonous to his kind.

  5. OriginalA September 16, 2015 at 3:22 am -      #5

    That’s not true, gecko. … Other enemies can take the bullet in place of her intended target, and many champions are capable of generating shields that can protect them from her attacks. Yasuo can even no sell her ultimate with his Wind Wall.

    So, no, even taken at face value, Caitlin cannot shoot through anything save her target.

    I wonder if creeps and jungle mons can intercept it too?

    I would like clarification on rule 1: “No cheater gun/armor” … Does that mean nobody gets armor? Cause you have a lot of people running around in cloth, and you have a lot of people running around in shielded power armor with layers of protection. That is quite a sizable advantage for the armored characters.

    And you have a number of people with a wide variety of guns. Han Solo is a gunslinger. He uses pistols usually. Maybe a carbine occasionally. Master Chief uses a full blown assault rifle most often. Garus has an assault rifle and a sniper rifle usually. Caitlyn has a magic-tech flintlock rifle.

    There is a massive disparity between the common weapon loadout for just the characters I’m familiar with. That’s not even including the fact that people like Adam Jensen can carry rocket launchers and plasma rifles, or Courier 6 having a nuke launcher.

    Without further clarification, the high tech people are going to scale exponentially as their gear becomes allotted to them in the later matches, while characters with a low tech cap, like 47, are going to be left behind. Garrus’s armor is going to be flat out no-selling prolonged attacks from the lower tech weapons.

    Adam Jensen is a strong contender early on though. His armor and active camouflage abilities will be of great help, and his regeneration is significant too. John-117 is also an extremely large threat; being considerably faster than just about everyone else here. He has gear that would allow him to be competitive in the later stages too; he might take this on average.

  6. Neon Lord September 16, 2015 at 4:22 am -      #6

    A lot of these people aren’t really renowned in their respective universes for their accuracy, let alone using a sniper rifle.

  7. Friendlysociopath September 16, 2015 at 8:57 am -      #7

    I mean, if we take League of Legends mechanics seriously Caitlyn would undoubtedly have the best feats since she can 100% successfully snipe targets that:

    Teleport
    Travel through dimensions
    Turn invisible (Her ult gives true vision)
    Move fast enough they leave flames on the ground
    and so on- only way to dodge is to have something block the shot. Hell, Ekko travels backwards in time and I think her bullet will still come after him.

    Funnily enough, if we account for skins she would also have a good outfit and weapon for all of these scenarios.

  8. Nobunaga Jin September 16, 2015 at 9:40 am -      #8

    It’s the battle of the gunslingers, Part 2! The wrath of the sharpshooters!

  9. Ninja Lowk September 16, 2015 at 10:16 am -      #9

    -The Tenno are capable of blocking/deflecting gunfire at close range from multiple shooters.
    -Chief is 190 milliseconds faster then normal humans rt.
    -Adam Jensen is enhanced rt/reflexes aid in aiming and allow him to dodge bullets.

    So they got a advantage in the fire first department.

  10. the_man_with The_Answers September 16, 2015 at 1:59 pm -      #10

    Stage 1 could be a toss-up, with only WWII gear things get pretty leveled. Theoretically anyone could win if they were lucky, but I’d bet on the top contenders, in no particular order being:
    Vasilij – For very specific familiarity with the area and the weapons.
    Simo Hayha – Again familiar with the type of weapons
    Master Chief – For general physical superiority as well as exceptional general experience

    Those that will be at a disadvantage are those who use weapons significantly more advanced or alien, like blasters or energy weapons. Similarly, Garrus is at an immediate disadvantage for lack of edible food.

    Stage 2 gets a little more interesting. Characters from futuristic settings have an automatic advantage as their “lesser advanced gear” is typically superior to the Berlin setting/modern weapons.

    Here, the two legendary real-life snipers fall to the wayside as Chief and Jensen only get stronger, and you have other futuristic contestants being capable of leveraging their own gear.

    Stage 3 and 4 are similar to stage 2, though in stage 3 Garrus goes from being significantly disadvantaged to the most likely of winning.

    Stage 5 I think will go to either of the Fallout protagonists or Master Chief. The Fallout protagonists because survival in harsh environments is their tag-line, and Chief for his exceptional training and experience in both survival and stealth without reliance of gear. Also for the fact that without starting gear and adherence to the rules, Chief stands the best chance at actually taking the fight back to their hunters. Again, Garrus has a distinct advantage in the Citadel environment.

  11. lethal_gecko September 16, 2015 at 2:23 pm -      #11

    @Original

    I didn’t expect you to debate game mechanics wow ._.

  12. OriginalA September 16, 2015 at 4:07 pm -      #12

    some of it is game mechanics. some of it is taking other skills at face value too.

  13. lethal_gecko September 16, 2015 at 4:27 pm -      #13

    Well Caitlin can’t shoot through Nautilus, a 20 foot tall, 6 ton hulk of iron, but then neither can she shoot through Teemo so…
    [#]

    Also so long as nobody gets in the way, she can not miss.

    As for the final round, Master Chief can handle Boba Fett, but vice versa as well.

  14. Epicazeroth September 16, 2015 at 4:36 pm -      #14

    Holy shit, that is a long description. And a fairly vague one.

    What is “cheater” equipment? I assume it means anything like energy weapons or explosives, but what about standard armor? Some of these characters regularly wear sci-fi armor, and their standard guns are lightyears (literally) beyond WWII guns.

    Similarly, what about Jensen’s Augs? Some of them are weapons by themselves, and the rest put him closer to Chief than to any human (discussed further down). And if we go by the Mankind Divided trailers, he has half a dozen extra Augs that give him an even bigger advantage.

    I assume “Nova” is Nova Terra? Well, she’s kind of… psychic. Is she allowed to use her psionics? Because if so…
    =
    Lastly, some of the characters here aren’t sharpshooters or snipers at all. Do they get their usual weapons, or an appropriate long-range rifle from their universe?
    ===
    @Lowk & tmwTA: Regarding Garrus’ food.
    It seems more that Garrus would have dextro food, but of an amount equivalent to 3 days for a human. That’s how I read it.
    ===
    @gecko: “Master Chief can handle Boba Fett, but vice versa as well.”
    Really? I thought Boba doesn’t have that many feats without the EU.
    ===
    @Original: “Garrus’s armor is going to be flat out no-selling prolonged attacks from the lower tech weapons.”
    Yeah, this is pretty unfair for the lower-tech guys; Garrus isn’t the only person who will be tanking modern weapons fire. So will Chief’s. And Raynor. Possibly the Lone Wanderer, the Courier, and the Imperial Agent as well. Hell, Jensen’s skin is bulletproof.

    “Adam Jensen is a strong contender early on though.”
    He’s also one of the few characters with superstrength and reflexes (including a built-in Aim Stabilizer, which presumably only comes into effect in Round 2). Even without his cloak, he can sprint completely silently. And he has a built-in short-range flak cannon, though that might counts as “cheater” equipment.

  15. Ninja Lowk September 16, 2015 at 4:46 pm -      #15

    “Parry incoming attacks with R2. Tenno can deflect both blade and bullets with ease.”
    -Codex: Melee 2.0
    ===
    Some of what Tenno’s can do physically
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHK0PKxnlQ
    0:12-0:26 block bullets, mobility, hitting target mid flip.
    0:38 scaling walls

    Bullet jump, glide, wall latching
    i.imgur.com/WF0RiF2.gif
    giant.gfycat.com/TemptingAmusedBarnswallow.gif
    giant.gfycat.com/SnoopyWarmBrownbutterfly.gif

    The Gun oriented Warframe
    warframe.com/game/warframes?id=Mesa
    According to the Devs, the reason behind the bandanna is that the Mesa is so good it doesn’t need to see to basically be a living aimbot.

  16. the_man_with The_Answers September 16, 2015 at 4:49 pm -      #16

    “It seems more that Garrus would have dextro food, but of an amount equivalent to 3 days for a human. That’s how I read it.”

    Except in environments as large as these, a “sniper war” is going to last weeks minimum. On the Citadel he’ll be fine, but anywhere else he’s going to be suffering from starvation. Note he probably won’t die of starvation, as people have gone significant lengths of time with practically no food, but he’s going to be much weaker and unfocused over time compared to people who will have plenty of available food, or even against people like Chief who can go a week with hardly any food or sleep and still function superbly.

  17. mortis September 16, 2015 at 8:02 pm -      #17

    err…master chief without his armor? he would do fairly well with it, as it has his HUD and other things, so I’m not sure, and anyone who’s seen me in earlier debates would be surprised by this, but I don’t think MC would be a major player in this, at least as far as I know…

    and is han solo any type of sniper either? cus the most I’ve seen him go out with is a pistol.

  18. mortis September 16, 2015 at 8:05 pm -      #18

    and for stage three, well MC would definitely be a major player in this one, though I don’t know the skills of the others, but MC would probably try to root them out, get them to close range

  19. OriginalA September 16, 2015 at 9:22 pm -      #19

    I just realized that Stage 1 and Stage 2 are during on going conflicts. And all troops will shoot on sight the combatants. What’s more is that Vaszilij was in the battle for Stalingrad, so there should be two of him in Stage 1: One Vaszilij allied with the Russians, and another which is the combatant in this match.

    “and is han solo any type of sniper either? cus the most I’ve seen him go out with is a pistol.”

    He’s not a sniper. He’s a gunslinger. He has more in common with El Mariachi, or The Man With No Name. He’s a cowboy; not a sniper.

    So too is Adam Jensen, O’Niell, John-117 (although with a really good eye and some sniper training). Even Caitlyn isn’t the “sit-and-wait” kind of sniper. Her primary skill is her detective work. She’s Sherlock Holmes with a sniper rifle. She’s a good shot, but she isn’t a professional sniper. She isn’t going to be measuring the windage and what not in order to make a 2 mile long shot. She out ranges most gun battles, but she’s a short range sniper at best. … She regularly gets into conflicts with people who rely solely on melee combat and they stand a chance of at least forcing her to retreat in order to kite them or else risk getting hit by their sword. That is a far cry from the range that someone like Vaszilij would fight at.

    Garrus is around Caitlyn’s range too, except he has been known to hole up and wait for shots for an extended period of time. … He’s actually a really good comparison. He used to be a cop too, and he was good at it!

    I think a lot of people are going to get shot by the armies in the first few hours rather than by other combatants. It’s going to be stealth characters (Jensen, John-117, probably Vaszilij, and Agent 47) that are going to even really have a chance in the first Stage. Probably the same for the second, but depending on what tech becomes available will change some things around.

    Stage 3 both offers better engagement areas for the close combat types (lots of corridors, elevators, cover, and a building design that in general doesn’t offer too many clean views of more than 500 meters ahead of you) as well as being too damn big and it being more likely that absolutely everyone will leave the Citadel before they even see each other.

    Stage 4… I don’t even know cause I don’t watch the show.

    Personally I think the armies are going to kill just about everyone in the first two Stages, and noone is even going to see someone else in Stage 3 (maybe Stage 4).

  20. Epicazeroth September 16, 2015 at 9:48 pm -      #20

    @Original: Jensen and Chief are both trained in all weapons. Sure, they don’t use sniper rifles as their only weapons, but they do use them a fair bit. And, depending on your playstyle, they could be at least a Carlos Hathcock-style sniper. Same goes for the Fallout characters.

    “Personally I think the armies are going to kill just about everyone in the first two Stages”
    They’d be hard pressed to do so with WWII-era weaponry. Several of these guys would require explosives, depending on what equipment they get. And in Stage 1, the armies aren’t even stated to shoot on sight.
    ===
    Also, I’m going to ask again: Can Nova use her psionics?

  21. erickyboo September 16, 2015 at 11:22 pm -      #21

    “So too is Adam Jensen, O’Niell, John-117 (although with a really good eye and some sniper training). ”

    www.halopedia.org/images/4/45/Halo_Escalation_8.jpg
    He’s a Spartan. He might not be Linda, but it’s more than just some training.
    Sadly, I don’t have any John-117 E-books, only physical ones, so I can’t search up passages where John uses a sniper.
    Also, according to last light, John might indeed have 360 FoV.
    “They had 360-degree imaging systems that expanded far into the electromagnetic spectrum.” [Roams Alone talking about Fred and the other Spartan-IIIs on blue team. But I guess that might fall into rule 4. I’m a bit unsure about what John’s equipment will be.

    As for the Imperial Sniper from SWTOR… would we even have feats for him?

  22. the_man_with The_Answers September 16, 2015 at 11:24 pm -      #22

    “John-117 (although with a really good eye and some sniper training)”

    Considering he’s a S-II, he’s likely a better sniper than 99% of snipers out there. Even though he’s not explicitly designated as one. Jensen doesn’t strike me as a long range sniper, though it isn’t like he doesn’t know how to aim.

  23. mortis September 16, 2015 at 11:48 pm -      #23

    ok then the odds tip i bit more in chiefs favour then. and if han solo is a gunslinger, what’s he doing here? and in stage 1 and 2, they’re all using WWII gear, right? none of them are used to those, I think, which gives the, ah, normal humans a chance, so I think that origanalA is right about the troops killing a lot of the people, I think that MC would survive, as he’s definitely able to 1v1 any normal soldier, and probably even able to go up against 10v1, just hand to hand, and with a gun? if I was MC, I would just loot bodies, maybe get an enemies uniform, and pick people off.

  24. OriginalA September 17, 2015 at 12:06 am -      #24

    My point was that John-117 snipes like he’s in a video game. He runs around with a gun, shoots really quickly, repositions, and moves on.

    Real world snipers take a while to move into a position, set up, and finally take a shot.

    A Spartan-II? Two minutes, with time to spar. Hell, the ODST guy from The Babysitter episode of Halo Legends (same episode where I’m getting the two minutes from btw; the characters flat out call out that amount of time too) anyways, the ODST sniper took 9 seconds. Oh, and this is for a shot that is 2 miles out. 1.5 miles is the current real world record. Zaytzev’s longest shot is allegedly at 0.625 miles.

    Now this is, of course, because their tech is bonkers good at auto correcting.

    So, yeah, I was actually downplaying (oh, who am I kidding; I was flat out wrong) John’s ability to snipe. In fact, he’s going to be the best one here WITHOUT EVEN TRYING.

    EDIT: Qualifying statement: Best one here with using a sniper rifle at extreme range. … unless one of the other super snipers are amazing. In a close range fight it might go to someone else.

  25. Alphastriker September 17, 2015 at 1:52 am -      #25

    @EpicAzeroth

    I really don’t know. We need Blaze to clarify this.

  26. Shadow-Knight September 17, 2015 at 8:37 am -      #26

    I’m just going to to say that Simo Häyhä is probably the greatest real world sniper who ever, lived. There is reason the Russians called him “The White Death” iirc he has. 500+kills….with iron seights……mostly at night during one of the coldest winters in Finland…by him self.

  27. Blaze September 18, 2015 at 4:17 pm -      #27

    #Blaze gets back from student hostel
    #Blaze checks BankGambling
    #Blaze can die happily now
    #Balance hammer strikes

    Hi guys,sorry it seems that my bad english caused troubles.
    —————————————————————–
    1:Cheater gun/armor:Anything that would make a contender invulnulable to lower tech stuff,and I Win buttons like Fat Man.prohibited armors.Chief’s suit,Servo-armor(both stalker and fallout)
    ———————————————————-
    The imperial sniper could only use lighter armor’s because balance
    ———————————————————
    Garrus would start with standard turian clothing(his skin probably harder than a humans so this is balanced)
    ———————————————————–
    At his maximum,Adam would have:Aim-stabilizers,silent runing,better lungs.
    ———————————————————
    For reasons the tenno would’nt be able to block the shots.
    ————————————————————
    NO skills for caitlyn,just sniping(not the skill)
    ————————————————————
    Yeah Garrus would have dextrro food,sorry I forget that
    ————————————————————
    On the citadel,there is ONLY ONE pod on a wing(or how they are called),so they must fight.
    —————————————————————
    In stage 1 and 2 for your reasons i think we should number of enemy troops ,so they would be more spread out.
    —————————————————————
    The word sharpshooter here means that someone who can shoot very well,Han is only here because I was curius what would you think of his skills and chances.
    ——————————————————————–
    I wonder why no one thins about Hunter?He is so baddas that he survived a trip into the dark ones nests,and came back capable of fighting.
    —————————————————-
    Or 47?He is good at close and long range too,with superhuman reflexes.
    ————————————————————
    Ok we put a tenno without his armor.Let ti be Mesa.He(?)would have the skills of a good athletich,and a runner.the accuaricy of very talanted soldier,and the experience of a veteran.
    Only non-prime,un-modded Snipers/Assaults are enabled.

    Imperial sniper:Can deploy covers that slow projectiles,can shock someone for a secons,shoot very accuarry after a few second of preparations.
    —————————————————
    And please everone consider their lore strength,not their in-game strenght because it differs.
    —————————————————
    I think nova should’nt be enabled to use her psyonics.

    If there is something i forgot about please write it down,and I will reply.
    Have a good comment warfare,and a good night.
    —————————————————
    Random stuff:
    Plans for future battles:
    Wraiths vs Galactic Empire
    Stargate(no ascendents) & W40K vs Starcaft & Star Trek & Star Wars(unfortunetly i know nealy nothing of Trek and W40K)
    What if kurama would be a pokemon?

  28. Archangel470 September 19, 2015 at 3:06 pm -      #28

    Pretty sure that the Chief will win this fight.

  29. mortis September 19, 2015 at 3:10 pm -      #29

    thanks for that, it clarifies alot

  30. Rookie September 19, 2015 at 3:41 pm -      #30

    @Archangel470

    Welcome to BankGambling.

  31. Ninja Lowk September 19, 2015 at 4:18 pm -      #31

    “For reasons the tenno would’nt be able to block the shots.”

    Still leaves the Tenno with one of the quickest reaction time and reflexes of the bunch. A veteran Tenno would have to pass both a stealth test and a test that requires them to be accurate while on the move.
    Guns with a high rate of fire might be some trouble but single shot weapons would be easy enough to dodge.
    So anyone wanting to get a hit on the Tenno would have to snipe them from behind.

  32. Friendlysociopath September 19, 2015 at 4:30 pm -      #32

    Hmm, I just remembered something- Chief was given a thorough education on battles and firearms. So he’ll also likely know the forces involved in Stalingrad and be able to adapt better than the others.
    Not saying he 100% knows the entire city, but he’ll have studied the battle and should have a more general idea of what’s where and so on- more than people who don’t have any such knowledge.

    Btw, how many people are experienced in fighting during extreme cold like that? That’s not a minor thing, especially for the sci-fi crowd where their armor does everything for them.

    Back to having 2 hours to edit my comment I see- what manner of shenanigans is this?

  33. Blaze September 19, 2015 at 5:08 pm -      #33

    Heh it is funny to see the general opinion about chief.
    Anyone thinks that others could win?
    I know that i should be fully neutral,but i am curius :)

  34. Ninja Lowk September 19, 2015 at 5:09 pm -      #34

    “Btw, how many people are experienced in fighting during extreme cold like that? That’s not a minor thing, especially for the sci-fi crowd where their armor does everything for them.”

    I don’t think Warframes do much other then protect from damage and manipulate thier energy. Unless they are modded or wearing an archwing they don’t seem to have much in the way of environmental protection.
    Tenno still seem to operate fine in extremely low temperatures; albeit messed up shielding.

  35. Ninja Lowk September 19, 2015 at 5:17 pm -      #35

    “Anyone thinks that others could win?”

    Adam or The Tenno.

  36. Blaze September 19, 2015 at 5:18 pm -      #36

    Sorry Tenno but it isn’t the grinner.I think that their suit makes a little more agile too,with or without infestination they would be slower without their armor.

  37. Blaze September 19, 2015 at 5:22 pm -      #37

    I know as suggestor I need to be neutral,but if I’d be a simple ‘Piler reading this post I would consider for TLW C6 A47 and Hunter too.(No offense but they are too expert snipers and gunners, if needed I could write a few feasts for all fighters.)

  38. Blaze September 19, 2015 at 5:37 pm -      #38

    Ok guys I will check back morning(yeah middle- european timezone rulez).And I hope that the thins i wrote will be enough for a few hours:).

  39. Ninja Lowk September 19, 2015 at 5:42 pm -      #39

    “I think that their suit makes a little more agile too,with or without infestination they would be slower without their armor.”

    Only thing regarding the function of the warframes in lore is that they shape the Tenno’s energy into the specfic abilities that each frame provides. The Volt warframe I think is the only one that grants enhanced speed.
    Underneath it they are Void enhanced beings that could no long be considered humans.

  40. Epicazeroth September 19, 2015 at 7:16 pm -      #40

    @Blaze: “Garrus would start with standard turian clothing”
    Garrus’ skin is not really harder than human skin. Turian skin withstands low-to-moderate radiation, and likely physical blows. But against firearms, his skin is totally useless.

    “At his maximum,Adam would have:Aim-stabilizers,silent runing,better lungs.”
    Not to be argumentative, but how is this balanced at all? The other sci-fi characters (who, btw, are at least half of the total combatants), don’t even get armor. Jensen’s skin is still better-than-modern body armor.

  41. w00tm0ng3r September 19, 2015 at 11:15 pm -      #41

    I think Nova has a shot. I would say she’s by far the fastest one here. ANY ghost can sidestep hypersonic bullets shot at 30 rounds per second. She can telekinetically guide her bullets as they’re flying, which is the only way she ever manages to land a shot on spectres. Given what the standard issue gauss rifle can do, she probably has the longest ranged and most powerful gun here. She of course also has long duration cloaking.

  42. Blaze September 20, 2015 at 4:51 am -      #42

    @Epicazeroth:“At his maximum,Adam would have:Aim-stabilizers,silent runing,better lungs.”
    Not to be argumentative, but how is this balanced at all? The other sci-fi characters (who, btw, are at least half of the total combatants), don’t even get armor. Jensen’s skin is still better-than-modern body armor.
    —————————————————————–
    I know but do not forget adam’s skill are much lesser than other combatant’s,okay,I think that We should remove the body armor plus the aim stabilizers,and i think that should be enough to be balanced.
    —————————————————————–
    “I think that their suit makes a little more agile too,with or without infestination they would be slower without their armor.”

    “Only thing regarding the function of the warframes in lore is that they shape the Tenno’s energy into the specfic abilities that each frame provides. The Volt warframe I think is the only one that grants enhanced speed.
    Underneath it they are Void enhanced beings that could no long be considered humans.”

    Hm… I did not know it,sorry so it think they are experts at close range,but at long range fight this shoud be balanced.And he(?) will only get an un-modded vectis rifle,or if necessary an un-modded latron.
    ————————————————————–
    Nova get no psyotichs,yeah that would be fairly unfair.
    ————————————————————-
    Garrus with standrad turian clothing would be balance because most of the other combatants have no armor at all.(Agent 47,Vasszilij,Simo,The Imperial Sniper,Jack O’neill,Ivan,The tenno,Chief,)
    ————————————————————–
    Again Jensen,if I remember well his harder skin should be unlocked with praxisis,so i do not think that it is a basic augmentation,(he had the same bulletproofness before getting augmented,so it is only videogame logic).

  43. Ninja Lowk September 20, 2015 at 12:35 pm -      #43

    “Again Jensen,if I remember well his harder skin should be unlocked with praxisis,so i do not think that it is a basic augmentation,(he had the same bulletproofness before getting augmented,so it is only videogame logic).”

    He already has it. It’s what is under his skin and what the surface of his augments. Pretty much every augment is already in him it just took him awhile to learn how to use them. Upgrading it is essentially the same as learning to use it right.

  44. the_man_with The_Answers September 20, 2015 at 3:07 pm -      #44

    “1:Cheater gun/armor:Anything that would make a contender invulnulable to lower tech stuff,and I Win buttons like Fat Man.prohibited armors.Chief’s suit,Servo-armor(both stalker and fallout)”

    So would Chief be using something like ODST armor then?

    “Garrus would start with standard turian clothing(his skin probably harder than a humans so this is balanced)”

    Turian skin is slightly hardened against increased solar radiation, but it doesn’t offer any extra protection worth mentioning.

    “Or 47?He is good at close and long range too,with superhuman reflexes.”

    After watching the most recent Agent 47 movie, he does indeed have some crazy aim, with all styles of weapons. Honestly, he and Chief are probably the best shots here.

    “Adam or The Tenno.”

    I think Agent 47 stands a rather good chance, at least in situations where gear is equalized. Or even just in general against unarmored opponents. Observe:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2O08Io445Q

  45. Epicazeroth September 20, 2015 at 6:57 pm -      #45

    @Blaze: “I know but do not forget adam’s skill are much lesser than other combatant’s,okay,I think that We should remove the body armor plus the aim stabilizers”
    1) Jensen’s not that unskilled…
    2) It is literally impossible to remove the body armor. It is his skin.
    ===
    @tmwTA: “After watching the most recent Agent 47 movie”
    Is that canon?
    ===
    @Lowk: “Upgrading it is essentially the same as learning to use it right.”
    Well, Nova isn’t allowed psionics, and the Tenno was barred from using his natural reflexes (which means Chief is probably not allowed to use his own reflexes). So make of that what you will.

  46. Ninja Lowk September 20, 2015 at 7:56 pm -      #46

    “Well, Nova isn’t allowed psionics, and the Tenno was barred from using his natural reflexes (which means Chief is probably not allowed to use his own reflexes). So make of that what you will.”

    Upgrading is basically like this.
    “Learning to anticipate the interaction between carbon nanotubes, dilatant fluid, and kinetic energy can substantially increase the effectiveness of the Dermal Armor”
    I it is still his skin, like you said.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111144451/3845438-adam's+stats.jpg
    So you can’t really take it away unless you revirt him to pre-augmented stage. At that point all you would really have is a a guy from SWAT.
    ===
    Bit of accuracy for Jensen
    Right after he dodging a sniping attempt, after the shots were fired
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119495/3220405-sniper2.jpg
    He tags the snipers
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Just%20cuz/Adam%20Jensen/ACCURACYA_zpsto21uywq.jpg
    ===
    ” and the Tenno was barred from using his natural reflexes (which means Chief is probably not allowed to use his own reflexes).”

    Which would be ridiculous, I get taking away the powers like psionics or the Tenno space magic but reflexes are kind of necessary in a fire fight. Sometimes it’s a matter who gets a shot off first or if you can avoid getting shoot yourself. This isn’t just a sniper contest where they are stationary taking pot shots at targets.

  47. Epicazeroth September 20, 2015 at 8:35 pm -      #47

    @Lowk: “So you can’t really take it away”
    That was my point.

    “reflexes are kind of necessary in a fire fight.”
    Also my point.

    There are Deus Ex comics?
    ===
    I do agree that Nova shouldn’t have access to her psionics, seeing as she could literally tear apart the whole city.

    Could Jensen go toe-to-toe with Chief, physically? Could Raynor, with his armor?

  48. the_man_with The_Answers September 20, 2015 at 9:06 pm -      #48

    “Is that canon?”

    It’s from the latest Hitman movie, so I think so.

    “Well, Nova isn’t allowed psionics, and the Tenno was barred from using his natural reflexes (which means Chief is probably not allowed to use his own reflexes). So make of that what you will.”

    Which is getting to the point of sillyness. Equalizing equipment and weapons is one thing. But completely equalizing skills is just weird. Considering if you literally just average everyone out to the same skills it will be a toss-up.

  49. Epicazeroth September 20, 2015 at 9:57 pm -      #49

    @tmwTA: “It’s from the latest Hitman movie, so I think so.”
    Why would the movie be canon?

    “But completely equalizing skills is just weird.”
    Making it an equipment-only fight is fair, considering it is a gunfight. But now nobody has armor, superhuman people are brought down to probably right below Peak Human, and it is entirely possible futuristic weapons could be ruled “cheater guns”.

  50. Blaze September 21, 2015 at 9:13 am -      #50

    No by cheater gun i meant things like an auto-targeting sniper rifle or a big ass nuke launcher.The tenno can dodge bullets but not block them,chief is allowed too,but impossibli things like shooting 2 kilometers in one moment is just ridiculus.Okay that’s all i think soon we should decide,and then wait for my next brilliant idea.(Sorry guys this is the first fight I suggested.)

  51. Blaze September 21, 2015 at 9:16 am -      #51

    No by cheater gun I meant things like an auto-targeting sniper rifle or a big ass nuke launcher.The tenno can dodge bullets but not block them,chief is allowed too,but impossibli things like shooting 2 kilometers in one moment is just ridiculus.Okay that’s all I think soon we should decide,and then wait for my next brilliant idea.

  52. the_man_with The_Answers September 21, 2015 at 5:12 pm -      #52

    “But now nobody has armor, superhuman people are brought down to probably right below Peak Human, and it is entirely possible futuristic weapons could be ruled “cheater guns”.

    Which is like altering people’s abilities to differ from what they are. Gear is one thing, but when you eliminate someone’s “god given” abilities you are no longer debating with the same character beyond name.

    “but impossibli things like shooting 2 kilometers in one moment is just ridiculus.”

    Actually, if your scope is all properly dialed, and the ballistics of your weapon can actually hold out that far with reasonable accuracy, a 2km shot wouldn’t take that long. It’s things in the field like locating the target, properly ranging your target, finding the proper environmental elements both at your location and along the trajectory to your target (Like elevation, temperature, humidity, and particularly windspeed, which can vary significantly between your location and the target, especially with 2km of distance), and potentially predicting the location of the target if their moving that make the shot difficult or otherwise time consuming. But in a range environment where all of that can be easily known, if I had a a heavier weight .338 magnum or larger caliber rifle with some sandbags, a bi-pod, a very high-quality hi-mag scope, and a day prior with a bunch of ammo to establish where the rifle needs to be, I could probably set anyone on this site up in a position where all they have to do is have a firm grip on the rifle, practice regular shooting form, and pull the trigger and have your shots land in a roughly 10ftx10ft area or less. Granted it isn’t exactly stellar accuracy, but 1MOA at that range is more or less a square yard. Meaning 10ftx10ft is ~3MOA, or what I typically see from first time shooters or Hunters who go shooting once or twice to zero their rifle for a dinner plate sized target at ranges of 30 to 150 yards. 3MOA at 100 yards is a 3-inch grouping for clarification.

    IIRC, the world record distance confirmed kill was ~2.5km with a .338 Lapua Magnum. From my understanding of the situation, it took them a dozen or two shots to get onto target, but once he got the first kill, the second target was as simple as realigning and pulling the trigger.

    So in short, long-range target acquisition/kill time is a function of one’s environmental knowledge along the ballistic trajectory. In extreme/fluctuating conditions it could take you over an hour. If you walked into the most ideal circumstance you could adjust and fire in a matter of seconds.

    “auto-targeting sniper rifle”

    Define auto-targeting. As in “fully aims for you/homes on target” or as in “automatically adjusts the scope/rifle for a given target.”

  53. Epicazeroth September 21, 2015 at 9:16 pm -      #53

    @Blaze: “impossibli things like shooting 2 kilometers in one moment is just ridiculus”
    Almost everyone here is ridiculous. Nova can tear spaceships apart with her mind. I agree; a lot of this is ridiculous. Doesn’t matter, because it’s still something they can do.
    ===
    @tmwTA: “you are no longer debating with the same character beyond name”
    That was my point.

  54. the_man_with The_Answers September 22, 2015 at 2:03 pm -      #54

    In related “sharpshooting news,” my new stock arrived, and I’ll be setting the rifle into it later today. New 16×42 mil-quad scope is on the way.
    scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12042788_1675371366008363_8936346793103599528_n.jpg?oh=498277b48a37dd27fc184d27455faf2a&oe=56A2A303
    scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12049541_1675371382675028_2813231381336973446_n.jpg?oh=08fdf75057def9ed48c2e876f2a4d414&oe=56660FB4

  55. Blaze September 22, 2015 at 2:04 pm -      #55

    Auto targeting:It aims automaticly and you don’t have to aim.(Ok guys we should decide but it looks like this will be for chief,and next time maybe I will make a better fight)

  56. Ordo11 September 22, 2015 at 2:22 pm -      #56

    Yes, please don’t do an auto equals thing next time, and please throw in Ronan from stargaze as he wields a sword in one hand while shooting his revolver energy weapon thing in his left hand.

  57. Ninja Lowk September 22, 2015 at 2:28 pm -      #57

    “Ok guys we should decide but it looks like this will be for chief,and next time maybe I will make a better fight”

    Not really. Its between Nova, Adam, Chief, and the Tenno. All people who can are good shots and could either dodge aim or bullets.

  58. the_man_with The_Answers September 22, 2015 at 3:28 pm -      #58

    “Not really. Its between Nova, Adam, Chief, and the Tenno. All people who can are good shots and could either dodge aim or bullets.”

    I doubt anyone is dodging aim or bullets here. Most rounds are super-sonic in this case, even out past 1,000 yards, so they’ll only know a bullet is on its way when it hits them. As far as aim dodging, many of these are professionals, they’ll be concealing themselves as best as possible.

  59. Ninja Lowk September 22, 2015 at 4:03 pm -      #59

    “I doubt anyone is dodging aim or bullets here. Most rounds are super-sonic in this case, even out past 1,000 yards, so they’ll only know a bullet is on its way when it hits them.”

    I don’t know about how Nova did it but

    Tenno can must be able to react to the bullets or they have some kind of precog I don’t know about to block fire from multiple people at once.

    Jensen was actually able to analyze what type of bullet was coming at him and side step, when the bullets was in mid-air; just about to hit him.

  60. the_man_with The_Answers September 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm -      #60

    It’s not that some people don’t have the reaction time to dodge a bullet, especially from range (A normal human could dodge a bullet from 1,000 yards by simply walking), but unless they are looking almost right at the direction of the rifle as it fires, they are going to be utterly clueless that the bullet is on the way.

  61. Ninja Lowk September 22, 2015 at 7:55 pm -      #61

    They way I’m seeing it is a compounding advantage. For those individuals, a shot would more than likely have to come from outside of thier field of view to tag them.
    Which would be difficult since the same ones with enhanced reflexes also happened to have superhuman mobility. Plus as you said they’d also be concealing themselves. However most of the bullet timer are as stealthy as they are quick.

    The Tenno, Adam, Chief are quick enough to zip from building to building; cover to cover. Trying to tag people with superspeed/reflexes/agility is going to be tough.
    Tenno and Chief agility would make it simple enough to scale vantages point quickly or just getting on top of buildings out of sight. They could also get the lay of the land faster. Those two and to a lesser extent Adam kind of gave their pick of cover from the ground to the roofs.

  62. Epicazeroth September 22, 2015 at 11:58 pm -      #62

    @tmwTA: “I doubt anyone is dodging aim or bullets here.”
    Chief and Tenno are blatantly bullet-timers. Jensen apparently is in supplementary material.
    ===
    @Lowk: That analysis might be done by a separate Aug from his reflex enhancer, though. Doesn’t change the fact that he dodged bullets and immediately fatally returned fire, but it makes it ever-so-slightly less impressive.

    Nova and Adam also have cloaking abilities. Unless those were unbalanced.

  63. the_man_with The_Answers September 23, 2015 at 1:39 am -      #63

    The Tenno, Adam, Chief are quick enough to zip from building to building; cover to cover. Trying to tag people with superspeed/reflexes/agility is going to be tough.
    “Tenno and Chief agility would make it simple enough to scale vantages point quickly or just getting on top of buildings out of sight. They could also get the lay of the land faster. Those two and to a lesser extent Adam kind of gave their pick of cover from the ground to the roofs.”

    Except those types of situations are not going to be very common. This is a sharpshooting match where combatants are given either standardized precision rifles or their own flavor of precision rifles depending on the stage. If they are out and about zipping around in the FoV of another sniper, they are statistically more likely to get hit than if they were near motionless from a concealed location.

    Think of it, when “zipping about” there is the potential of a bullet coming in from 360 degrees, 180 degrees of which is out of your sight. And while a moving target is harder to hit depending on range, it is next to impossible to dodge if the shots are coming from that other 180 degrees. From a controlled and concealed position, you control enemy LoS with walls/barriers and camouflage, meaning pretty much 100% of shots are coming in through your FoV and could potentially could be dodged if seen soon enough.

    “Chief and Tenno are blatantly bullet-timers. Jensen apparently is in supplementary material”

    Chief is about as low-end a bullet timer as one can get, though his reflexes should be sufficient to dodge rifle rounds reliably past 100 meters.

    But as mentioned, it is going to be exceptionally hard to dodge bullets when fired from so far away, as it would be exceedingly hard to notice the shots fired before they impact. A long-range shot isn’t going to have a very noticeable muzzle flash if visible at all unless you already have a magnified view of the area in which the shot came from. As mentioned the bullet will get there before the sound, so there is literally nothing to actually react to before impact in most cases.

  64. Friendlysociopath September 23, 2015 at 1:55 am -      #64

    they are statistically more likely to get hit than if they were near motionless from a concealed location.

    They are statistically more likely to be seen.
    They are statistically much less likely to be hit.
    Big difference.

    Chief is about as low-end a bullet timer as one can get

    Casually dodges several without really trying back when he first got armor, has since had years of experience and upgrades. He should be fine.
    Course, his armor has been removed so now it’s just pure reflexes so maybe he can’t dodge until he gets his armor back.

    As mentioned the bullet will get there before the sound, so there is literally nothing to actually react to before impact in most cases.

    As also mentioned before, hitting a moving target- especially one moving faster than you’re used to- is a lot harder than pegging a sitting target.

  65. Ninja Lowk September 23, 2015 at 2:58 am -      #65

    “If they are out and about zipping around in the FoV of another sniper, they are statistically more likely to get hit than if they were near motionless from a concealed location.”

    However they are still capable of concealment like the others. The difference is that that have the option of a faster, easier means of relocating. If any of the normal humans are spotted, outside a miss, they are done.

    A good bit of the enhanced crowd are at least capable of making themselves more difficult targets On top of that the people trying to snipe most of them have a more limited window in addition to the already quick target.

    They don’t have to go about announcing there position to the stars. They can be stealthy but they can go about it quicker the most of the other people.
    The ability to quickly accelerate and you have a target capable of ducking through cover faster then you can get a bead on him or her.

    -In Berlin the wider open roads might be a problem but the more packed areas would be make dealing with with the them more of a hassle.
    -The Citadel and Atlantis, that no longer a sharpshooter vs, that a gunslinger battle. Outside of the places maybe, and again The more advanced people would have an easier time of navigating. Other then that, most of the places are enclosed and/or urban as fuck.
    ===
    “That analysis might be done by a separate Aug from his reflex enhancer, though.”

    Pretty sure it’s just his Retinal Prosthesis, aka his eyeballs; aka the thing that makes the H.U.D. that analyzes everything.
    ===
    “As mentioned the bullet will get there before the sound, so there is literally nothing to actually react to before impact in most cases.”

    Being able to see the bullet helps.

  66. DokuSaki September 23, 2015 at 1:16 pm -      #66

    I dont think nova should be in this battle. She unbalences everything her weapon can tear through armor that was nuke proof. her own armor is nuke proof so i dout most of the compatition can get through it. Even if they can she is the kind of person who wait till a shot is fired cloak and kill them melee unawares. If you take the armor away from her it just a woman with a gun and is outclassed by everyone.

  67. Epicazeroth September 23, 2015 at 2:09 pm -      #67

    @Friendly: “Course, his armor has been removed”
    What? He has it in all the Guardians trailers.

    “hitting a moving target- especially one moving faster than you’re used to”
    That assumes the shooter is a normal human. Anybody with enhanced reflexes will be able to track the other enhanced combatants, and some have experience with superhuman enemies as well.
    ===
    @Lowk: “The Citadel and Atlantis”
    I don’t know about Atlantis, but the Citadel could facilitate a sniper duel. They start very far away from each other, and it’s not like the Citadel is exactly lacking in buildings.

    “Pretty sure it’s just his Retinal Prosthesis, aka his eyeballs”
    Right. Whereas his reflexes (presumably) are not located in his eyeballs.

  68. the_man_with The_Answers September 23, 2015 at 4:52 pm -      #68

    “They are statistically more likely to be seen.
    They are statistically much less likely to be hit.
    Big difference.”

    The likely hood of being hit is a direct function of their likeliness of being seen in a sniper duel. Which was what I was getting at.

    “Casually dodges several without really trying back when he first got armor, has since had years of experience and upgrades. He should be fine.
    Course, his armor has been removed so now it’s just pure reflexes so maybe he can’t dodge until he gets his armor back.”

    Dodging bullets in a casual situation is drastically easier than dodging them in an active combat scenario. Chief knew exactly where the bullets were coming from and roughly when they were going to be fired in the test scenario, and a similar sentiment when he explicitly dodged a bullet while testing the Mark V armor. Out of armor he dodged a point blank burst of stun rounds, though UNSC stun rounds are high-velocity, I doubt they are super-sonic (Probably the 200-300 m/s range). But again, he could very plainly see the weapon being fired.

    The chances of seeing the muzzle flash of a sniper rifle beyond a few hundred meters are extremely slim if you don’t have a magnified image of the are from which the flash came from. Without a visual indicator, a sound indicator (IE super-sonic bullets), or a taste/smell/touch indicator (obviously) there is zero sensory input to react to while the bullet is in flight. Thus you can’t react by dodging. Whether you are a low-tier bullet dodger like Chief or an insanely high-end bullet dodger.

    “As also mentioned before, hitting a moving target- especially one moving faster than you’re used to- is a lot harder than pegging a sitting target.”

    Yes, but hitting a moving target is considerably easier than hitting an exceptionally well concealed target (IE a target you are unlikely to even be able to see).

    “However they are still capable of concealment like the others. The difference is that that have the option of a faster, easier means of relocating. If any of the normal humans are spotted, outside a miss, they are done.”

    Obviously it is an advantage, what I’m getting at is quick reflexes and higher movement speed resulting in dodging bullets is almost insignificant in importance to long-range marksmanship and effective concealment.

    “Being able to see the bullet helps.”

    Which relates back to field of vision, and depends on how acute the vision of the target is opposed to sheer reflexive capability. Kinda like how I have the reflexive capability to dodge a bullet fired from a mile away, but I don’t have the visual acuity to detect the bullet before it hits me.

  69. Ninja Lowk September 23, 2015 at 8:01 pm -      #69

    “Without a visual indicator, a sound indicator (IE super-sonic bullets), or a taste/smell/touch indicator (obviously) there is zero sensory input to react to while the bullet is in flight.”

    Your forgot the bullet itself.
    ===
    “Which relates back to field of vision, and depends on how acute the vision of the target is opposed to sheer reflexive capability. Kinda like how I have the reflexive capability to dodge a bullet fired from a mile away, but I don’t have the visual acuity to detect the bullet before it hits me.”

    Acute enough to pinpoint bullets as they are flying at your face and analyze them. Adam Jensen.
    Acute enough to note several bullets flying and knowing which are about to hit him to block.
    ===
    Concealment is good but what are the odds out of Berlin they spot one another hunkering down concealed in one place? They have a limited food supply and an Army strolling around. Wouldn’t the people who can get up above it all, out of reach of normal human, have a better chance?
    ===
    “I don’t know about Atlantis, but the Citadel could facilitate a sniper duel.”

    Not from extreme distance. Unless your up in the Presidium, but literally the first thing any of these trained professionals should note when put in match with other marksmen should note is how that place is a freaking death sentence.
    ===
    “and it’s not like the Citadel is exactly lacking in buildings.”

    That would be the problem. Outside of the presidium, the place is pretty littered with stuff in the way like walkways, other buildings, corridors, shops, etc
    img.gawkerassets.com/img/18k1v53ri7iwkjpg/original.jpg
    i.ytimg.com/vi/mvXpad1B6oU/maxresdefault.jpg
    gamerhorizon0.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/silversun.jpg
    Even the Presidium would do some obscuring with some of their walkways under overhangs and behind cover.

    And without being able to get at least a general look land, everyone but Garrus is probably going to get lost.
    ===
    “Right. Whereas his reflexes (presumably) are not located in his eyeballs.”

    It’s all tied to his brain. the relfexes, the reaction time, the ability to perceive quick small objects, etc.
    His augmented eyes relayed information to his augmented brain which allowed him to note the danger. If you see an elephant charging your brain recognizes what is coming at you. It’s like that for him only with more detailed information being noted in a faster process.
    After that his reflexes, which are also at base augmented, allowed him not only to perceive the danger but physically act as well.

  70. Epicazeroth September 23, 2015 at 10:21 pm -      #70

    @tmwTA: “The likely hood of being hit is a direct function of their likeliness of being seen”
    No, it’s not. They’re moving too fast to be hit by anybody who isn’t also superhuman. Very few things in real life, and nothing in any sort of competition, is a direct function.

    “Yes, but hitting a moving target is considerably easier”
    But they wouldn’t run around for no reason. The only real reason they would be running is to get into (better) cover, or to make themselves harder to hit if they were already seen. And if they have to move, they’ll be harder to hit than a normal human.
    ===
    @Lowk: “Not from extreme distance.”
    Define “extreme”. Not all sniper combat takes place at 1km+ ranges.

    “that place is a freaking death sentence.”
    I’ll admit that I have forgotten quite a bit about Mass Effect. What about the Presidium (and the rest of the Citadel) makes it so bad?

    “Outside of the presidium, the place is pretty littered with stuff in the way”
    It’s also littered with huge roads and walkways, providing plenty of straight lines of sight.

    “everyone but Garrus is probably going to get lost.”
    That would definitely be a problem. Though some of the combatants have ways of finding opponents. Jensen and Nova have radar or something similar, for example. And I doubt even Garrus knows the whole layout (though he might already have a map).

    “His augmented eyes relayed information to his augmented brain”
    Ah. I thought his eyes analyzed the bullet by themselves.

  71. shadowrider98 September 24, 2015 at 1:35 pm -      #71

    why isn’t sarah kerrigan(starcraft) in this match up?She was a ghost before being turned into the queen of blades.

  72. the_man_with The_Answers September 24, 2015 at 9:24 pm -      #72

    “No, it’s not. They’re moving too fast to be hit by anybody who isn’t also superhuman. Very few things in real life, and nothing in any sort of competition, is a direct function.”

    Nobody here can run so fast horizontally that an exceptionally skilled non-super human sniper wouldn’t be able to compensate for. Like I said, a target that is extremely well concealed is significantly safer than a target who can run superhumanely fast. Because faster speed only drops the hit percentage, while being a target that is virtually unseen drops hit percentage to near zero.

    I’m not saying agility doesn’t help, but proper concealment strategies are far more important, and anyone who’s spotted while on the move is already in a worse off position than someone still yet hidden.

    “But they wouldn’t run around for no reason. The only real reason they would be running is to get into (better) cover, or to make themselves harder to hit if they were already seen. And if they have to move, they’ll be harder to hit than a normal human.”

    I’ve never denied that it is an advantage. What I’m saying is mobility advantages are trivial in comparison to concealment and marksmanship skills. This match is not going to be dependent on who can react the quickest or move the fastest. It will be decided by who can conceal themselves the best and deliver the most accurate/precise shots in any given scenario.

    “Acute enough to pinpoint bullets as they are flying at your face and analyze them. Adam Jensen.
    Acute enough to note several bullets flying and knowing which are about to hit him to block.”

    Could I see the scans in question?

  73. OriginalA September 24, 2015 at 10:17 pm -      #73

    “Nobody here can run so fast horizontally that an exceptionally skilled non-super human sniper wouldn’t be able to compensate for”

    IIRC, John-117 can do exactly that. Wasn’t he out running auto-aiming turrets in a training mission after he was augmented, much less before he got his armor?

    Hmm… *finds Fall of Reach online*… Found the relevant parts.
    ——~~~~~~~~~~————
    Floodlights snapped on and illuminated a section of the cavern the size of a football field. In the center stood a concrete bunker. Three men in the primitive Mark I power armor stood on top. Six more stood evenly spaced around the perimeter. A red banner had been planted in the center of the bunker.

    “Capture the flag?” Dr. Halsey asked. “Past all that heavy armor?”

    “Yes. The trainers in those exoskeletons can run at thirty-two KPH, lift two tons, and have a thirty-millimeter minigun mounted on self-targeting armatures—stun rounds, of course. They’re also equipped with the latest motion sensors and IR scopes. And needless to say, their armor is impervious to standard light weapons. It would take two or three platoons of conventional Marines to take that bunker.”
    ——~~~~~~———-
    The trainers turned and fired at the shadow [Kelly], but it moved with almost supernatural quickness. Even the self-targeting systems couldn’t track it.
    ——-~~~~~~~~~~———-
    On top of the bunker, John was a blur of slashing motions. A second guard’s exosuit erupted in a fountain of hydraulic fluid and then collapsed under the armor’s weight.

    The last guard on the bunker turned to fire at John. Halsey gripped the edge of her chair. “He’s at point blank range! Even stun rounds can kill at that distance!”

    As the guard’s gun fired, John sidestepped. The stun rounds slashed through the air, a clean miss. John grabbed the weapon’s armature—twisted—and with a screech of stressed metal, wrenched it free of the exoskeleton. He fired directly into the man’s chest and sent him tumbling off the bunker.

    The remaining quartet of perimeter guards turned and sprayed the area with suppression fire.

    A heartbeat later, the lights went out.

    Mendez cursed and keyed the mike. “Backups. Hit the backup lights now!”

    A dozen amber floods flickered to life.

    Not a Spartan was in sight, but the nine trainers were either unconscious or lay immobile in inert battle armor.
    ——–~~~~~~~~~——
    “Your Spartans can run at bursts of up to fifty-five KPH,” he explained. “Kelly can run a little faster, I think. They will only get quicker as they adjust to the ‘alterations’ we’ve made to their bodies. They can lift three times their body weight—which, I might add, is almost double the norm due to their increased muscle density. And they can virtually see in the dark.”

    Dr. Halsey pondered this new data. “They should not be performing so well. There must be unexplained synergistic effects brought on by the combined modifications. What are their reaction times?”

    “Almost impossible to chart. We estimate it at twenty milliseconds,” Mendez replied. He shook his head, then added, “I believe it’s significantly faster in combat situations, when their adrenaline is pumping.”
    /———-
    Fall of Reach, Chapter 9 in case someone wanted to know.
    www.5novels.com/book/Halo-Book-1/index_9.html

    Also, I don’t think that the point was to forgo stealth with speed, but rather augment stealth with superhuman speed. Which, again, is something John-117 should be capable of.

    Thoughts?

  74. Ninja Lowk September 24, 2015 at 11:11 pm -      #74

    “Define “extreme”. Not all sniper combat takes place at 1km+ ranges.”

    So far the only place above I recall with space around enough for a view off 1km or above is the presidium. Everything else seems to packed under the range.
    ===
    “I’ll admit that I have forgotten quite a bit about Mass Effect. What about the Presidium (and the rest of the Citadel) makes it so bad?”

    The Presidium is the danger zone because it is, well just look at it.
    36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln5ixaAmmr1qbs6i5o1_1280.jpg
    orig13.deviantart.net/fd53/f/2013/105/5/d/mass_effect_3_presidium_dreamscene_by_droot1986-d61t9u8.jpg
    images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120416161102/masseffect/images/0/07/ME3_Presidium_Commons.png
    masseffected.pbworks.com/f/masseffect_62_745x440.jpg
    Going into there is about the same as walking into a open field.

    The wards however are sort of the opposite. They are a bit more packed. T
    here are some space where you could maybe find a shot from a far enough distance. Garrus seems to know of at least one spot, but there are seems to be bit more obstructions and corridors to deal with.
    ===
    “Could I see the scans in question?”

    Post #46 for Adam’s bullet scanning feat.
    Post #15 for The Tenno’s ability to block bullets feat.
    ===
    “Also, I don’t think that the point was to forgo stealth with speed, but rather augment stealth with superhuman speed.”

    This^
    I don’t think speed alone is the only advantage. Just one that give those with it a higher chance of survivability.
    ===
    “What I’m saying is mobility advantages are trivial in comparison to concealment and marksmanship skills. ”

    It’s only trivial if they didn’t have speed or reflexes to dodge bullets or are capable of sudden acceleration that make it hard keeping a track on you. That puts at least a limit on the others capability of being able to tag them.
    Especially in an environment with a significant amount of cover. Berlin still had buildings standing. The citadel and Atlantis for the most part, indoor environments.

  75. the_man_with The_Answers September 25, 2015 at 11:45 am -      #75

    “IIRC, John-117 can do exactly that. Wasn’t he out running auto-aiming turrets in a training mission after he was augmented, much less before he got his armor?”

    At close range. Most shots here will be longer range. In which only moving your aim slightly in one direction or the other is the potential equivalent of multiple meters at the end of the ballistic path.

    For example, if you are standing right next to the highway and a 60mph car drives by it would be fairly difficult to move your fully outstretched arm fast enough to keep pace with it as it drives by. But if you were say, 300 meters from the highway, it would be almost trivial to have your arm stay with the car.

    “Also, I don’t think that the point was to forgo stealth with speed, but rather augment stealth with superhuman speed. Which, again, is something John-117 should be capable of.”

    The initial argument was the viability of dodging bullets, and that being toted as a significant factor. Increased agility does indeed lend itself as an advantage, but it isn’t particularly game changing.

    “Post #15 for The Tenno’s ability to block bullets feat.”

    All of that was literally point-blank where he could directly see the weapons being fired. He doesn’t have that courtesy when the weapon is fired from significant distance.

    “Post #46 for Adam’s bullet scanning feat.”

    #1. He noticed the bullets because of the glass breaking, IE a very visible indicator (and audible when concerning point #2)
    #2. The snipers were using silencers, which is a strong indication that those were sub-sonic rounds, meaning the sound of them coming would be noticeable before they hit (Likely roughly about 1 meter ahead for every 10 meters traveled by the bullets).

  76. OriginalA September 25, 2015 at 12:21 pm -      #76

    Everyone gets sub-sonic weaponary for the first round anyways. So that’s pretty applicable to the current situation.

    The Citidal is going to end up being a hallway fight were speed and reaction time at close range is going to be much more important.

    I think you’re downplaying something that is going to be extremely advantageous in round 1 and 3.

  77. the_man_with The_Answers September 25, 2015 at 2:36 pm -      #77

    “Everyone gets sub-sonic weaponary for the first round anyways. So that’s pretty applicable to the current situation.”

    What are you even talking about? Some of the WWII pistols they are given will be subsonic, but the majority of WWII sniper/marksman weapons were well beyond twice the speed of sound. Many in the 800m/s-900m/s range. Actually, virtually anything that wasn’t a pistol was super-sonic. Hell, even some of the pistols use super-sonic ammunition.

    “The Citidal is going to end up being a hallway fight were speed and reaction time at close range is going to be much more important.”

    Really?
    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/d/d7/MassEffect2Citadel.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100721191415
    vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/3/3e/Citadel-Presidium-View_From_Ambasador_Lounge_3.png/revision/latest?cb=20090206231928

    There are tight spaces but there are also plenty of spacious places.

    “I think you’re downplaying something that is going to be extremely advantageous in round 1 and 3.”

    Having greater agility may help you get in and out of most locations faster, but this is a match where time is no object. You have however few people hunting for each other in exceedingly large areas, so how fast you can get into position doesn’t really matter when each stage can last weeks. Sure it can help in escaping a sticky situation, but if you’ve found yourself in one you’re probably not doing that great in the first place.

    Faster reflexes and greater agility will actually help more in evading the locals of Stage 1, 2, and the hunters in Stage 5 than it will anything else.

  78. Friendlysociopath September 25, 2015 at 3:02 pm -      #78

    but this is a match where time is no object.

    Well this is untrue no matter how you look at it:
    Everyone ages for starts- time matters so people don’t grow old and die.
    Everyone gets worse the longer they hide- time matters because the longer you camp the worse off you become; your muscles get heavier and you become less aware.
    Everyone requires nutrients- time matters so people can still operate on whatever resources they can come across. The OP even says 3 days of food and the match is 10 days.
    Stalin is not deserted and is actively being fought over- time matters because enemy soldiers will shoot on sight or take them prisoner. They don’t have enough ammo to take on an entire army. Hell, shelling alone makes it kind of luck-based anyways; some entirely random shot could take someone out and nobody would even know.

    Most shots here will be longer range. In which only moving your aim slightly in one direction or the other is the potential equivalent of multiple meters at the end of the ballistic path.

    You realize you just said the equivalent of “It’s a harder shot- but it’s easier instead.” It’s harder to hit a faster object, especially one that may be moving erratically, the range may let you keep them in sight easier but it makes it no easier to hit them.
    At the sort of range where they can easily keep up with a fast target- they also have a bunch of problems like wind and stuff that the spotter is required to do- they have no spotter. In fact, if they miss the first shot they’ll likely miss all subsequent shots if the person they’re shooting at moves since they won’t be calibrated for that.

    Snipers aren’t used for “reflex” warfare. They’re actually mostly used for reconnaissance. When in a kill role they camp a spot and wait for an opportunity. If someone suddenly starts booking it at great speed- it is not a simple or easy matter for the sniper to adjust to that.

  79. OriginalA September 25, 2015 at 3:29 pm -      #79

    @the man!
    My bad on the sub-sonic weapon thing. I was thinking ft per second, not meters per second. … Oh how I wish I read this before replying to you in the Star Wars vs Halo match. … Wow; the irony hurts. I deserve that.

    Friendly bringing up food is another good point. The snipers sitting in waiting are going to have to move eventually due to lack of food. Those moving about can steal from the armies and replenish their supplies. (at super high risk of course)

    And, yes, the Citidial will be a hallway shoot out. Everyone is going to be either taking elevators or flying cars when moving between buildings. None of them are stupid enough to not stick to just the hallways and there is plenty of inter-connectivity in the place to avoid wide open spaces.

  80. Ninja Lowk September 25, 2015 at 6:41 pm -      #80

    “All of that was literally point-blank where he could directly see the weapons being fired. He doesn’t have that courtesy when the weapon is fired from significant distance.”

    Against multiple people firing at him with automatic weapons. The point is that he isn’t reacting to the gun being fired, Besides that he wasn’t even looking at them when they started firing.
    Also doing it again accept the start out a but more spread out.


    Dodges a shot from behind.

    ===
    “#1. He noticed the bullets because of the glass breaking, IE a very visible indicator (and audible when concerning point #2)
    #2. The snipers were using silencers, which is a strong indication that those were sub-sonic rounds, meaning the sound of them coming would be noticeable before they hit (Likely roughly about 1 meter ahead for every 10 meters traveled by the bullets).”

    The second guy doesn’t appear to be using a silencer. And the ammo used is
    deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Ammunition_(DX3)#Combat_Rifle_Ammo
    Didn’t note anything about subsonic rounds. Even among the weapons list of upgrades.

    Even still was able to process the bullet itself when it was one a few feet away from him. Even near the speed of sound that that giving him somewhere in the single-digit milliseconds worth of time to do anything.

    Again indicating that you would still limit the snipers options to hitting him from a point outside his view or else he would see the bullet.
    ===
    “Really?
    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/d/d7/MassEffect2Citadel.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100721191415″

    If you look close you’ll notice that pretty much everything below those skyscrapers is underneath a roof. That’s the exterior of the citadel. Like when Shepard had to climb the tower from the outside to get to Saren and he was basically in space. That seems like that would basically be the kind of position someone would have to be in to go walking out there.
    ===
    “vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/3/3e/Citadel-Presidium-View_From_Ambasador_Lounge_3.png/revision/latest?cb=20090206231928”

    I went over the Presidium and how anyone of the fighters going there would know it’s a bad idea. Plus chances of them reaching there would probably be lower then one of the wards; unless they start there. It doesn’t take up much space compared to the rest of the Citadel’s arms and you might need clearance or something like that.
    Of course Garrus would probably know how to navigate his way there… Actually Garrus is a hacker and he should already have dealings with the citadel systems. At the very least he’d probably be the only one capable of tracking the others at the start. Plus he is used to fighting quick enemies like the Hoppers. Huh.

  81. the_man_with The_Answers September 25, 2015 at 10:20 pm -      #81

    “Everyone ages for starts- time matters so people don’t grow old and die.
    Everyone gets worse the longer they hide- time matters because the longer you camp the worse off you become; your muscles get heavier and you become less aware.
    Everyone requires nutrients- time matters so people can still operate on whatever resources they can come across. The OP even says 3 days of food and the match is 10 days.
    Stalin is not deserted and is actively being fought over- time matters because enemy soldiers will shoot on sight or take them prisoner. They don’t have enough ammo to take on an entire army. Hell, shelling alone makes it kind of luck-based anyways; some entirely random shot could take someone out and nobody would even know.”

    Taking my statement way out of its original context I see. I stated that time is not object in relation to the time saved due to enhanced agility when getting into position. Whether you get there in 10 seconds versus 10 minutes doesn’t really matter when you have 10 days.

    “You realize you just said the equivalent of “It’s a harder shot- but it’s easier instead.” It’s harder to hit a faster object, especially one that may be moving erratically, the range may let you keep them in sight easier but it makes it no easier to hit them.”

    Everyone here is experienced enough that even a high-speed target at range is going to be a non issue. I’m good friends with someone quite high-up in the State Predatory Management, his longest confirmed kill was a running Coyote at 915 meters. Coyotes can run up to 45mph. My friend is neither an extreme military veteran nor superhuman. He is quite the Marksman, but there are many people in this match who I would imagine to be better.

    Furthermore, while not particularly super long range, keep in mind these are pretty much normal people, not a series of exceptional and/or superhuman marksmen. (BTW Antelope are fairly fast, topping out at 35mph or so)


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=m94KL_1W3-I

    “At the sort of range where they can easily keep up with a fast target- they also have a bunch of problems like wind and stuff that the spotter is required to do- they have no spotter. In fact, if they miss the first shot they’ll likely miss all subsequent shots if the person they’re shooting at moves since they won’t be calibrated for that.”

    First of all, it doesn’t have to be extreme range to keep up with a fast target. Second, I’ve got some of the most, if not the most practical long-range shooting experience on this entire site, as Darth Bombard found out in a different match. Believe me when I say many of these shooters are not going to be thrown off without a spotter or if their target is running. Almost all factors will stay the same with horizontal movement, and the only main consideration is how much to lead the target assuming all other relevant information is known about the environment and target’s distance.

    “Snipers aren’t used for “reflex” warfare. They’re actually mostly used for reconnaissance. When in a kill role they camp a spot and wait for an opportunity. If someone suddenly starts booking it at great speed- it is not a simple or easy matter for the sniper to adjust to that.”

    Which is coming from your years of functional knowledge of marksmanship I assume. No, no, keep going on about exceptional/superhuman marksmen having difficulty leading targets. Don’t mind me, the guy who actually shoots long range who has a network of friends who also shoot long-range. Who also has somewhat functional experience shooting people considering I attend multiple large scale scenario paintball matches every year (Including the world’s largest, in which my team was an honorable mention for MVT this year) where concealing myself and ambushing my opponents is literally what I’m known for on my team. Silly to listen to me, I know. It may sound like some ITGing, but I’ve got plenty of pictures and probably a video or two kicking around that I can post if you want proof.


    Additionally, I’m actually the one here saying snipers are not reflex machines but “campers.” So I’m not sure where you were taking that point.

    “@the man!
    My bad on the sub-sonic weapon thing. I was thinking ft per second, not meters per second. … Oh how I wish I read this before replying to you in the Star Wars vs Halo match. … Wow; the irony hurts. I deserve that.”

    Doesn’t really matter since I ended up reading this one first to begin with.

    “Friendly bringing up food is another good point. The snipers sitting in waiting are going to have to move eventually due to lack of food. Those moving about can steal from the armies and replenish their supplies. (at super high risk of course)”

    With a limit of 10 days and 3 days worth of food at start, food isn’t going to be a concern. Literally everyone on this list is pretty much a hardcore survivalist at bare minimum. They can all survive and function with the stuff they have over this time frame,let alone with their ability to adapt and scrounge for resources. Hell, Chief can go a week with almost no food or sleep and just still keep going, the characters from Metro seem to be the hardcore type, I’m not sure how much Jensen actually even needs to eat, and the Fallout Characters are going to be enjoying the best food they’ve ever had compared to the raw irradiated meat and radioactive toilet water they scrounge on, at least initially. Garrus may be screwed on food, but at least he can ration 3 days worth for 10 days. And for the others, all of these fights take place in environments where humans live, so food and water is not going to be some rarity.

    “And, yes, the Citidial will be a hallway shoot out. Everyone is going to be either taking elevators or flying cars when moving between buildings. None of them are stupid enough to not stick to just the hallways and there is plenty of inter-connectivity in the place to avoid wide open spaces.”

    Fair enough.

    “Against multiple people firing at him with automatic weapons. The point is that he isn’t reacting to the gun being fired, Besides that he wasn’t even looking at them when they started firing.”

    He seemed to me to be looking pretty directly at them while they started firing

    “Also doing it again accept the start out a but more spread out.”

    Again, I’m not denying reaction time. But he was clearly facing all of them in that case.

    “Dodges a shot from behind.”

    You could see him look slightly over his shoulder as he reloaded, locating his target and proceeding to teleport behind them for a kill.

    “The second guy doesn’t appear to be using a silencer. And the ammo used is”

    Because you can’t really see the barrel in the first place.

    “Didn’t note anything about subsonic rounds. Even among the weapons list of upgrades.”

    If you attach a silencer and are actually expecting it to do anything to prevent sound, you need to load sub-sonic rounds, otherwise there will still be a super-sonic crack as the bullet breaks the sound barrier. You can have sub-sonic bullets of pretty much any caliber or style, you just have to cut back on the grains used. Which only takes trivial modification to the existing load. For example, my shooting buddy took about a pound of weight off his Desert Tactical SRS-A1 .338 Lapua magnum sniper rifle suppressor, which changed the barrel harmonics by just that little bit that he’s now going to break down all his ammo to get the new perfect load. But while he’s doing that, he’s also going to drop the velocity on a bunch of them so they end up going from ~3,000ft/sec down into the sub-sonic range, just so he doesn’t have to deal with the still rather loud report of his suppressed rifle.

    “Even still was able to process the bullet itself when it was one a few feet away from him. Even near the speed of sound that that giving him somewhere in the single-digit milliseconds worth of time to do anything.”

    Again, for whateverth time, I’m not denying any crazy reaction times here. I’m pointing out that you can’t react to something that hasn’t given you anything to react to. Jensen seemed clearly only aware of the bullets once they had smashed the glass. Making their existence painfully obvious.

    “Again indicating that you would still limit the snipers options to hitting him from a point outside his view or else he would see the bullet.”

    I seriously doubt he would notice a single random bullet heading his way from any direction but straight on perhaps. Bullets in this case would also probably be quite a bit faster than the rounds through the window, for what its worth anyways.

  82. Epicazeroth September 25, 2015 at 10:48 pm -      #82

    Shit; I closed the tab with my multi-paragraph reply. I need to learn to Copy all my posts.
    ===
    @tmwTA: “I’ve never denied that it is an advantage.”
    So, there isn’t really a dispute here? Speed is less important than stealth in general, but still useful.
    ===
    @Lowk: “Everything else seems to packed under the range.”
    But lots of the people here aren’t just snipers; some aren’t even primarily snipers. A fair number (7-10 as far as I can tell, depending on how/whom you count) are just as good or even better at firefight-type engagements.

    “The Presidium is the danger zone because it is, well just look at it.”
    OK, yeah. I see it now. Though they could try to hide in the shops, I guess.
    ===
    Not directly related, but how superhuman are the RWBY characters? I kind of want to make a match with some of them, but I don’t really know who they could fairly go up against; from my knowledge of these franchises, they could possibly go up against some of these characters. Although I guess I should just wait until Vol3 before anything else.

  83. Friendlysociopath September 25, 2015 at 10:58 pm -      #83

    Whether you get there in 10 seconds versus 10 minutes doesn’t really matter when you have 10 days.

    Ah but it does, for two big reasons and one small one:
    1) The sooner they find a space to “camp” the less time they are in the open. The longer they are in the open- the more likely someone is going to fire at them.
    2) They’re allowed to scavenge firearms already around- for Stalingrad this is less important; for stuff like Atlantis and the Citadel it becomes remarkably more potent.
    3) That has literally no way of telling us who would win. Of course they’re all easier to shoot when they aren’t in cover and hiding. However, if they all just sit and hide and wait- they all lose because they’ll never find one another; so we have to assume most of them will get up and move around to look for targets.

    the Fallout Characters are going to be enjoying the best food they’ve ever had compared to the raw irradiated meat and radioactive toilet water they scrounge on, at least initially

    This made me laugh at the thought of it, “What the hell is wrong with this? It’s not burning on the way down?!”

    And for the others, all of these fights take place in environments where humans live, so food and water is not going to be some rarity.

    You said it yourself, they all need to move if they want food; let alone safety in the case of Stalingrad. If they all just sit tight then this becomes a worthless exercise because of the nature of the match.

    So I’m not sure where you were taking that point.

    Perhaps I didn’t use the right words to explain my point; which is entirely my own fault.
    How are we to figure out who would be in the open? If we can’t in the slightest follow that line of questioning to a conclusion- what is the point of said… point?

    ho also has somewhat functional experience shooting people considering I attend multiple large scale scenario paintball matches every year

    Perhaps you can help me make my point clearer/more understandable then- my knowledge comes mostly from my friends who are currently serving in various branches of the military and I may not be using the right wording.

    Say Sniper 1 is at point A.
    And Sniper 2 is at point B.
    and neither Sniper can lay eyes on the other.
    Say one of them moves to point C, which requires either of them to come into view of the other, or even additional Snipers. Obviously either may be capable of spotting the person and firing.
    But what reason is there to move if they are safe where they are? And if the reason is, “They need a kill to win” then how would that apply to any one Sniper over any others?

    Not directly related, but how superhuman are the RWBY characters?

    Pretty good- they’re in that “metahuman” level that is like 99% of fictional characters:
    Ruby is fast enough to create shockwaves and packs a .50 cal if I remember right.
    Yang literally gets stronger the more you hit her and can run through automatic weaponfire.
    Weiss has some hax dust moves.
    Blake creates shadow clones.

  84. Epicazeroth September 25, 2015 at 11:35 pm -      #84

    @Friendly: “How are we to figure out who would be in the open?”
    I know that wasn’t addressed to me, but… We look at their personalities, right? Definitely the Fallout guys, Solo, and Raynor would set out. Possibly Chief, Jensen, and Tenno. Garrus and the Imperial are a toss-up IMO; they know how to snipe, but they’re in firefights fairly often. I don’t know enough about the rest.

    “This made me laugh at the thought of it”
    Remember, the Lone Wanderer lived in a Vault their whole life. S/he’s used to clean-ish food.
    =
    “Pretty good- they’re in that “metahuman” level that is like 99% of fictional characters”
    Ruby might be in “ludicrous speed” range depending on how you take the trailer.
    Weiss doesn’t really have that many physical feats (yet, at least).
    Doesn’t Blake block automatic gunfire at some point in “Black”?
    Yang casually punches a car.

    So, how does a RWBY match sound, after Vol3 comes out? Also, super psyched for that.

  85. Ninja Lowk September 26, 2015 at 1:25 am -      #85

    “Everyone here is experienced enough that even a high-speed target at range is going to be a non issue.”

    High-speed alone isn’t the issue. It’s the rate at which they can go from slow to fast in an instant. The Antelope is moving along a single plane, without cover, and a fairly predictable path for a few second. They know that it is going to do that. It doesn’t have the option to suddenly go to a high-speed into cover or maneuver beyond running. It is always going to run along the ground.
    Imagine if they were about to fire after setting up their shot it and it suddenly jump 30 meters upwards instead of continuing along the path they though it would. Do you really think they would’ve still had sights on it?
    Now imagine if their where buildings or misc cover and it was smart enough to know to stick to it.
    ===
    “He seemed to me to be looking pretty directly at them while they started firing”

    He waas looking at the guy he just beat and then turned his head just as they started firing.
    ===
    “You could see him look slightly over his shoulder as he reloaded, locating his target and proceeding to teleport behind them for a kill.”

    Wouldn’t that mean that their field of vision is actually wider then normal humans? He did not turn his head enough to actually see behind him.
    ===
    “Because you can’t really see the barrel in the first place.”
    “If you attach a silencer and are actually expecting it to do anything to prevent sound, you need to load sub-sonic rounds, otherwise there will still be a super-sonic crack as the bullet breaks the sound barrier.”

    Given that the round being dodged is stated as being the standard round and a silencer on the other gun is not visible, I’d say it was just the standard round being used.

    And regardless he moved fast enough to side-step a bullet
    ===
    “Again, for whateverth time, I’m not denying any crazy reaction times here.”

    And I am saying that they react to the bullets themselves. Which is why I noted several times that trying to shoot them from inside their field of vision is less likely to work instead of trying to shoot them from somewhere in their blind spot. They don’t need to see or hear a gun going off if they can process bullets themselves coming at them.
    Also, Mesa the gunslinger warframe; the originals idea behind blindfolding the helmet was to give herself a challenge in aiming. Still able to deflect bullets regardless.
    ===
    “I seriously doubt he would notice a single random bullet heading his way from any direction but straight on perhaps.”

    His eyes are cybernetic and they pointed out a bullet, what type of bullet, and the weapon it is fired from before he actually moved. So evidence points that his H.U.D. would.
    On that note, Adam out of everyone would probably actually be one of the people who could getting away with disappearing out of someone sights because he is capable of burst of speed that let him sidestep bullets rather then matrix dodging.
    ===
    “But lots of the people here aren’t just snipers; some aren’t even primarily snipers. A fair number (7-10 as far as I can tell, depending on how/whom you count) are just as good or even better at firefight-type engagements.”

    That’s what I was saying. Anything after Berlin would become more of a gunslinger match then sharpshooting.

  86. the_man_with The_Answers September 26, 2015 at 3:19 am -      #86

    “So, there isn’t really a dispute here? Speed is less important than stealth in general, but still useful.”

    If I’ve learned one thing, moving carefully and deliberately is significantly safer than moving swiftly in most circumstances. Quick movements draw the attention of the eye, which is the last thing you want when avoiding enemy snipers. The downside to that is if you are spotted, you’re probably going to get hit before you have the chance to utilize any speed advantages you may have. It CAN help, but only really in situations where you are ultimately disadvantaged. Except in the Citadel match where there is a decent bit of indoor and close range combat. Then speed can be fully leveraged.

    “Ah but it does, for two big reasons and one small one:
    1) The sooner they find a space to “camp” the less time they are in the open. The longer they are in the open- the more likely someone is going to fire at them.”

    Yes, but the difference in “statistical likelihood of being shot while specifically getting into position” is utterly trivial.

    “2) They’re allowed to scavenge firearms already around- for Stalingrad this is less important; for stuff like Atlantis and the Citadel it becomes remarkably more potent.”

    Except those that are blatantly much faster than everyone else here are likely already packing their marksman kit of choice, with weapons good enough to keep over foreign “scrounged” weapons. And on the Citadel, regardless of speed, Garrus is the one most likely to find the best gear considering his first stop is going to be the local C-Sec armory.

    “3) That has literally no way of telling us who would win. Of course they’re all easier to shoot when they aren’t in cover and hiding. However, if they all just sit and hide and wait- they all lose because they’ll never find one another; so we have to assume most of them will get up and move around to look for targets.”

    Except in that case the winner isn’t the one who moves the fastest, it’s the one who moves without being seen.
    The people that will go down initially are going to be the more soldierly people who are used to more aggressive combat. This is going to create a sort of chain reaction, as the death of each “soldierly type” starts to clue each sniper in on the locations of other snipers and what not. This is a game that favors those who are the most adept at silently and stealthily stalking their targets, those that use their surrounding environment to the best of their abilities, and those who remain patient.

    “You said it yourself, they all need to move if they want food; let alone safety in the case of Stalingrad. If they all just sit tight then this becomes a worthless exercise because of the nature of the match.”

    Oh they’ll move. But they won’t move quickly. They’ll move carefully and cautiously when they feel the need. Probably under the cover of night. This is going to be a case of small slip-ups resulting in dying, at least for the more capable members of this match.

    “Perhaps I didn’t use the right words to explain my point; which is entirely my own fault.
    How are we to figure out who would be in the open? If we can’t in the slightest follow that line of questioning to a conclusion- what is the point of said… point?”

    Who are the ones likely to be more brash? Impatient? Careless?
    Who is likely to be less perceptive? Knowledgeable? Accurate?
    Who are the ones likely to be better at stalking? Concealing? Adapting?

    “Say Sniper 1 is at point A.
    And Sniper 2 is at point B.
    and neither Sniper can lay eyes on the other.
    Say one of them moves to point C, which requires either of them to come into view of the other, or even additional Snipers. Obviously either may be capable of spotting the person and firing.
    But what reason is there to move if they are safe where they are? And if the reason is, “They need a kill to win” then how would that apply to any one Sniper over any others?”

    It’s a matter of patience. But regardless, neither sniper would attempt to cross the area by moving as quickly as they could. They’d be slow and cautious. The only time speed would play in is if they had to cross a large and fairly exposed area with nowhere to hide, but at that point they are liable to just take a completely different route all together. Even if they were absolutely forced they would try and make sure it’s all clear before attempting a crossing, unless time was also critical in which they literally have no other choice.

    Personal experience time:
    Every year I and my team attend Skirmish USA’s Invasion of Normandy paintball scenario match, the largest paintball game in the world. There’s typically 4,000 – 5,000 players and around a square mile of open woodland to play on. I tend to play as a “paintball sniper.” And I’m saying this right now, legitimate sniping isn’t actually a thing in paintball unless you invest along the lines of $500+ into a First Strike compatible marker (IE a mag-fed marker that can use the rifled First Strike paintballs which actually have reasonable accuracy at 80-100 meters). So don’t let someone try to fool you into that. For me at least, “paintball sniping” is about ambushing your targets. When I am out on the field with my team securing objective for points, I set up in locations on the predicted path of the other team, or if we are already engaged I fall back and circle for a very wide flank and move in slowly, trying to stay aware of where my targets are looking at all times.Two years ago I distinctly remember going out to secure an objective that was being dropped relatively soon. I separated from the main group of players at the objective and slowly began working my way up the opposite side of the adjacent creek to recon where everyone thought the Allies were going to come in from (I always play on the German Team). Sure enough they were there in force, but I noticed we Germans were deeply entrenched the whole length of the creek even beyond directly where the combat was at. So I dropped back and informed my squad and one of the commanders waiting for the objective that we were solid all the way up the creek. Deciding that I wasn’t needed up front, I broke off again right across the creek to the edge of the infamous Skirmish swamp in case any Allies decided to circle around. I remember this guy crouch walking up to me and proclaiming with disdain that “real snipers don’t wear ghillie suits.” I just laughed in my head at that, considering one of the first steps to becoming a sniper in the military is making your own ghillie suit. At the time I was wearing one, but Skirmish’s ION is about the only time I wear a ghillie suit playing paintball, and it is a sniper’s ghillie suit designed to go prone (IE no fluff on the front), because in almost any other paintball application a ghillie suit isn’t worth it. Back to the point, after that jackhole walked away, (opposite of where I was headed next), I heard a little bit of noise and movement forward and to the right. As I moved in closer I noticed someone crouched taking potshots across the creek. For awhile I just sat there watching, because I couldn’t see the yellow tape or blue tape that would otherwise identify him as an Allied or German soldier that year. It became clear to me that he was allied when two others walked up with yellow tape on their arms and didn’t shoot him. So I shot both of them as they approached then took out the guy at the edge of the creek, much to their surprise I would assume. I quickly went back over to the objective drop area and informed everyone there that the Allies were trying to push the right flank across the creek, Which got the commanders to move some bodies (Mostly walk-on newbies who didn’t know what to do beyond stand around at the objective) over to the edge of the creek, which effectively halted the Allies before they made it over that “critical” terrain feature, and stalled long enough for the objective to be grabbed and hauled off in the clear. While I may have gotten a clean “triple kill,” the true weapon was patience combined with tactical and situational awareness that led to gaining information the greater whole could better utilize.

    However, these characters are hunting each other, not doing recon on troop positions. Which is why some perhaps explain some more relevant experience. Typically at ION there is a point where, for at least a little bit, I just tell my team I’m going to go have some fun hunting (Didn’t really happen this year, because right before I set out I got roped into another mission/objective). Here’s a rough map of the field:
    scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11666105_961925530496288_6566855952911222731_n.jpg?oh=8ddb1aa7826b9e8232e827fa05065aa4&oe=569B219F
    For context, that last tale took place right below the name Carentan on the map. Where I typically go hunting is in “Dogwood Swamp.” Here’s why:

    First and foremost, because there is abundant and dense foliage unlike most other areas on the map (Lots of trees everywhere else, but things are mostly cut down as far as brush and low branches. It is incredibly easy to camouflage merely by staying motionless in the shadows, the ghillie suit is just an aide in that it mostly matches the colors and helps break-up my outline (Human eyes are especially perceptive towards the human form so to speak). You’d be surprised how many people just walk right by, friend or foe, without so much as knowing I was there.

    Secondly, because the terrain is utterly shitty. The creek next door has some swamp on both sides, the foliage is very dense in a lot of locations, and there is an abundance of mud (Which can seriously be knee deep). Which is great, because I don’t care about any of it. I’ll walk waist deep through the creek, crawl through the thick brush, or slodge through the mud to get into a better position. Your average player won’t. They’ll look for the bridge, or the low point in the creek, or take the paths around the brush, or walk on the pallet paths through the mud. This means their movement is extremely predictable. It also means they are focused on traversing the rough terrain without getting themselves, their clothes, and their gear dirty. Which means they aren’t focusing on the fact that I’m sitting 20 meters away in the shadow of a tree off the path with a paintball gun pointed at them.

    Thirdly, the swamp itself is a “high-traffic zone.” What I mean by that is that is the route to many places of interest for the Allies. If you go back and look at the map, the swamp is a shortcut for the Allies into zones like Paris, Rennes, Margon, Essone, and Elbeuf, as well as the “back door” into the German Base. It is also typically much less contended, with small skirmishes instead of massive battles like you see in the area between Caen and the German Base along with large fights for control along the river north of Caen up to St Lo. Which ultimately means I’m never going to be short of targets (Actually last year I was, because the Germans more or less fully controlled Caen the entire day cutting the Allies off at their insertion, and the next day I spent most of my time fighting on the “beach” for the sheer fun of it.

    So what have we learned? If the mentality is anything at all like mine, they will be looking for not only a place with plenty of concealment and general control of enemy movement, but areas that will have increased chance of movement. Just like how “Backfield/Centerfield” objectives drove the Allies through the swamp for a shortcut, the more adept snipers in this match will set up in positions that control the routes to necessities. Which is where patience and endurance come into play. Those that cave for the need of such necessities are likely the ones to go down. Taking out another contestant is also likely to force some movement, as they have just revealed their location more or less. In Stage 1 and 2 things get interesting as Russian and German “non-match” snipers are going to be distractions or center-points themselves that draw other contestants at the chance of it being one of their targets. There’s also an entire psychology to picking a sniper location. In the swamp mentioned, I didn’t really have that problem as I wasn’t facing any “counter-sniper” resistance and any random shadowy bush is as good as the other. But in these stages things change. That church tower may have a commanding view of the area with great sight-lines, but it is also the most obvious sniper location in the local area. That position in a building may conceal you very well, but leaves you no escape route if things go south. Those who are more… creative in their positioning strategies are at a major advantage. I would imagine Chief and Agent 47 to be particularly capable in that category, and Vaszilij and Garrus to be particularly clever as well in Stages 1 and 3 respectively through specific knowledge of the area. For example, Chief and 47 would be liable to come up with things like setting up a decoy and some form of remotely fired rifle contraption as bait to lure targets in, while Vaszilij and Garrus may know certain environmental advantages/tricks to leverage, and prior knowledge of the effective sniper locations in the area (Both to use themselves and to predict the location of others).

    “High-speed alone isn’t the issue. It’s the rate at which they can go from slow to fast in an instant. The Antelope is moving along a single plane, without cover, and a fairly predictable path for a few second. They know that it is going to do that. It doesn’t have the option to suddenly go to a high-speed into cover or maneuver beyond running. It is always going to run along the ground.
    Imagine if they were about to fire after setting up their shot it and it suddenly jump 30 meters upwards instead of continuing along the path they though it would. Do you really think they would’ve still had sights on it?
    Now imagine if their where buildings or misc cover and it was smart enough to know to stick to it.”

    The fact that sights are on you at all is the problem.

  87. the_man_with The_Answers September 26, 2015 at 3:38 am -      #87

    “Wouldn’t that mean that their field of vision is actually wider then normal humans? He did not turn his head enough to actually see behind him.”

    Whether by sight or sensory equipment, he knew the target there. The fact that he moved out of the way of the shotgun blast is more of him engaging the enemy that just so happened to fire a shot, not using some form of precog to predict an action before it happens. Granted he may have known a shot was on its way at some point, but merely because that’s what having an enemy aiming at your back leads to.

    “Given that the round being dodged is stated as being the standard round and a silencer on the other gun is not visible, I’d say it was just the standard round being used.”

    Given there’s literally no difference in the bullet itself, merely the charge in the casing, it would be impossible for him to know by merely looking at it.

    “And I am saying that they react to the bullets themselves. Which is why I noted several times that trying to shoot them from inside their field of vision is less likely to work instead of trying to shoot them from somewhere in their blind spot. They don’t need to see or hear a gun going off if they can process bullets themselves coming at them.”

    The only case of spotting the bullet was after it very visibly shattered the window. Bullets are small and moving extremely fast, it wouldn’t exactly be hard to miss one even with such enhanced reflexes.

    “Also, Mesa the gunslinger warframe; the originals idea behind blindfolding the helmet was to give herself a challenge in aiming. Still able to deflect bullets regardless.”

    Whom is clearly capable of things no one in this match is capable of doing. Unless she specifically is in this match. But “Tenno” is rather ambiguous to exactly which one unless that has been otherwise clarified.

    “His eyes are cybernetic and they pointed out a bullet, what type of bullet, and the weapon it is fired from before he actually moved. So evidence points that his H.U.D. would.
    On that note, Adam out of everyone would probably actually be one of the people who could getting away with disappearing out of someone sights because he is capable of burst of speed that let him sidestep bullets rather then matrix dodging.”

    Unsustainable quick reflex speeds. Side-stepping extremely quickly won’t move him a lot of distance, meaning he’d still be in the scope, or at least behind cover within the scopes view. Additionally, he could only detect/analyze the bullets when they were extremely close already. Rounds with higher velocities coming in may be too quick with such a short spotting distance.

  88. Ninja Lowk September 26, 2015 at 6:30 am -      #88

    “Given there’s literally no difference in the bullet itself, merely the charge in the casing, it would be impossible for him to know by merely looking at it.”

    He knew te weapon firing it.
    And again, no mention is made of the using subsonic ammo. In fact I don’t think they cared so much about lowering the noise. The were using an explosive upgrade. Explosive ammo in Human Revolution is anything but silent.
    Suppersors can also be used to reduce muzzle flash right? Nothing so far seems to indicates or notes the use of subsonic ammo so the only other reason for a silencer would be for that.
    ===
    “he only case of spotting the bullet was after it very visibly shattered the window. Bullets are small and moving extremely fast, it wouldn’t exactly be hard to miss one even with such enhanced reflexes.”

    It doesn’t matter that the breaking the window is what cuaght his attention. The fact of the matter is that his eyes did alert him to a bullet specifically and analyzed it while it was traveling.
    ===
    “Whom is clearly capable of things no one in this match is capable of doing. Unless she specifically is in this match. But “Tenno” is rather ambiguous to exactly which one unless that has been otherwise clarified.”

    Any Tenno can use the Mesa warframe. The one with the blindfold helm.
    ===
    ” Additionally, he could only detect/analyze the bullets when they were extremely close already. Rounds with higher velocities coming in may be too quick with such a short spotting distance.”

    He was talking to the lady when the bullet came crashing in. His eyes have better distance feats then that.
    How well do WW2 weapons compare to modern weaponry. DX:HR tries to keep some of their weapon in the possible near future weapon ranges.
    ===
    “Unsustainable quick reflex speeds. Side-stepping extremely quickly won’t move him a lot of distance, meaning he’d still be in the scope, or at least behind cover within the scopes view. ”

    But he can use it to launch him across spaces into cover by mixing his leg augmentation into effect. He could also use it to minimize time anyone has to get bead on him while looking for a good place to set-up.
    Plus Berlin isn’t a videogame zone filled with chest high walls for cover. Theres enitre buildings, collapsed or otherwise, somrtimes rows of them to use for cover.
    ===
    The ability to get around quickly and silently in a manner that most wouldn’t suspect is a big advantage. Especially at night.
    Jesen is quick, inherently silent, capable of traversing the enviornmet in different ways, and a capable shot evident by both his former career + now with his augments. He is sort of the jack of all master of none stats here. For round one I think he takes.

  89. the_man_with The_Answers September 26, 2015 at 10:03 am -      #89

    “He knew the weapon firing it.
    And again, no mention is made of the using subsonic ammo”

    Which also doesn’t change at all. Literally its just a change in the amount of propellant.

    “In fact I don’t think they cared so much about lowering the noise. The were using an explosive upgrade. Explosive ammo in Human Revolution is anything but silent.

    Again, an explosive upgrade would be independent of the amount of propellant. And noise reduction helps keep your location unknown. Against non-Jensen people anyways.

    “Suppersors can also be used to reduce muzzle flash right? Nothing so far seems to indicates or notes the use of subsonic ammo so the only other reason for a silencer would be for that.”

    Besides the fact that when you put a silencer on the rifle in the game,noise drops to the level you would expect from using sub-sonic ammunition.

    “It doesn’t matter that the breaking the window is what cuaght his attention. The fact of the matter is that his eyes did alert him to a bullet specifically and analyzed it while it was traveling.”

    The question is, if the window didn’t break, would he have had enough time to realize the bullets were there and react to them accordingly?

    “Any Tenno can use the Mesa warframe. The one with the blindfold helm.”

    Except they may or may not even have their warframes.

    “How well do WW2 weapons compare to modern weaponry. DX:HR tries to keep some of their weapon in the possible near future weapon ranges.”

    They aren’t terrible, and many calibers are the same day, difference being in the modern machining of precision rifles. WWII marksmen weaponry typically have velocities exceeding 800m/s. In later states, he’s going to be facing weapon in the lower km/s range.

    “But he can use it to launch him across spaces into cover by mixing his leg augmentation into effect. He could also use it to minimize time anyone has to get bead on him while looking for a good place to set-up.
    Plus Berlin isn’t a videogame zone filled with chest high walls for cover. Theres enitre buildings, collapsed or otherwise, somrtimes rows of them to use for cover.”

    It would serve him better if there were a bunch of chest high walls. Because I doubt he can sustain that side-step across a street from one building to another.

    “Jesen is quick, inherently silent, capable of traversing the enviornmet in different ways, and a capable shot evident by both his former career + now with his augments. He is sort of the jack of all master of none stats here. For round one I think he takes.”

    Which isn’t exactly exclusive to himself here.

  90. Ninja Lowk September 26, 2015 at 4:30 pm -      #90

    “again, an explosive upgrade would be independent of the amount of propellant. And noise reduction helps keep your location unknown. Against non-Jensen people anyways.”
    “besides the fact that when you put a silencer on the rifle in the game,noise drops to the level you would expect from using sub-sonic ammunition.”

    But your basis for them using subsonic ammo hinged on them doing it to reduce the velocity to avoid breaking the sound barrier thing. The fact that they are using explosive ammo shows they don’t give a fuck about the noise.
    ===
    “The question is, if the window didn’t break, would he have had enough time to realize the bullets were there and react to them accordingly?”

    It tooks his eyes less then a single digit millisecond to point out the bullet. That under the assumption of subsonic ammo. The fact that their is no evidence of the bullets being used being any slower or being subsonic and the timeframe goes down. If the bullet take longer then about 5 milliseconds to reach him his eyes should be able to give him a warning.
    ===
    “Except they may or may not even have their warframes.”

    What does that have to do with them be as capable even when blindfolded? Just being able to use the Mesa frame is a feat.
    ===
    “It would serve him better if there were a bunch of chest high walls. Because I doubt he can sustain that side-step across a street from one building to another.”

    …I think your taking side-step to literally. I said launch. His augments allowed him to dash to outspeed a bullet. Add that to ability leap 30 meters and your looking at a pretty quick means of propelling across large distance.
    Actually I think they might be letting do something similar in Mankind Divided where he superspeeds through cover.
    ===
    “Which isn’t exactly exclusive to himself here.”

    Among them who else is faster then a bullet, can run virtually silent, has eyes good enough to spot bullets flying, and has bullet resistant skin?
    ===
    @Manswers
    Who do you think would take round 1?

  91. the_man_with The_Answers September 26, 2015 at 8:01 pm -      #91

    “But your basis for them using subsonic ammo hinged on them doing it to reduce the velocity to avoid breaking the sound barrier thing. The fact that they are using explosive ammo shows they don’t give a fuck about the noise.”

    Explosive ammo isn’t necessarily loud.
    Especially considering the caliber, and certainly much quieter than an unsilenced rifle.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SG0XoAWY70

    “It tooks his eyes less then a single digit millisecond to point out the bullet. That under the assumption of subsonic ammo. The fact that their is no evidence of the bullets being used being any slower or being subsonic and the timeframe goes down. If the bullet take longer then about 5 milliseconds to reach him his eyes should be able to give him a warning.”

    The problem was he noticed the window breaking FIRST, which pointed out the bullets specifically to him, causing a heightened reaction state. Because I seriously doubt he walks around all day reacting so quickly that someone saying “How’s it going?” seems to take nearly a minute instead of 1.2 seconds or so. Imagine how crazy that would drive you. Someone talking for a few sentences would seem like nearly 10 minutes while it was only really a dozen or so seconds.

    I mean seriously, if he was constantly reacting so fast as to see super-sonic or even sub-sonic in slow-motion, imagine how slow life in general would seem. And that doesn’t seem to be the case.

    And this isn’t strictly talking about Jensen. Chief or other insanely fast reacters would be “normal” or reacting only marginally faster than baseline until the adrenaline starts going and they start perceiving time slower.

    “What does that have to do with them be as capable even when blindfolded? Just being able to use the Mesa frame is a feat.”

    I guess I’m just not sure where the natural abilities begin and where the Warframe aid begin.

    “…I think your taking side-step to literally. I said launch. His augments allowed him to dash to outspeed a bullet. Add that to ability leap 30 meters and your looking at a pretty quick means of propelling across large distance.”

    I don’t ever remember being able to leap 30 meters in Deus Ex.

    Not only that, but the faster you do something, the more power it takes. In that tiny fraction of a second his legs may or may not be capable of exerting enough power to fully launch himself any significant length beyond what is shown.

    And Jensen has rather defined/limited total energy reserves. He can’t just go-and-go-and-go-and-go without some form of recharge, be it rest or literally recharging himself.

    “Actually I think they might be letting do something similar in Mankind Divided where he superspeeds through cover.”

    The trailer also shows him in a rushed run no faster than a normal human could. Super-speed would have been really helpful in trying to get to a bomb before it killed civilian no? He does display some form of teleportation power, but I imagine that is rather energy expensive, and isn’t lightning fast or exceptionally far reaching (Though it would be nigh-impossible to hit). Though gameplay of the new game does indeed show an energy bar that never fully replenishes. Actually, that teleportation is the Icarus dash, or so I’ve learned.

    But that’s another consideration, in pretty much all of these scenarios Jensen will have almost zero ability to recharge beyond the critical threshold that he can continually recharge too. Which isn’t an excess to be sure.

    “Among them who else is faster then a bullet, can run virtually silent, has eyes good enough to spot bullets flying, and has bullet resistant skin?”

    Except those weren’t the terms I was quoting.

    I was quoting:
    “Jesen is quick, inherently silent, capable of traversing the enviornmet in different ways, and a capable shot evident by both his former career + now with his augments. He is sort of the jack of all master of none stats here.”

    Chief and Tenno at the very least equal or surpass Jensen in some of those categories. Others here match or exceed him in other categories as well. And I mean, Jensen’s running feats themselves are more or less typical of a regular human under most circumstances.

    “@Manswers
    Who do you think would take round 1?”

    In no particular order: Vaszilij, Chief, Jensen, or Agent 47

    As I side note, there is specifically a “Focus Mode” in the new Deus Ex game. Which more or less confirms that Jensen isn’t constantly running around processing information reacting to things insanely faster than normal. It’s something he triggers and begins making a dent in his energy reserves.

  92. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2015 at 8:12 pm -      #92

    Chief or other insanely fast reacters would be “normal” or reacting only marginally faster than baseline until the adrenaline starts going and they start perceiving time slower.

    I can’t speak for the others, but Chief actually does note that things take longer to happen around him after his enhancements (due to boosted reaction time).
    He drops a pin and times it and doesn’t believe the results because it takes too long for it to drop in his eyes.

  93. the_man_with The_Answers September 26, 2015 at 9:23 pm -      #93

    “I can’t speak for the others, but Chief actually does note that things take longer to happen around him after his enhancements (due to boosted reaction time).
    He drops a pin and times it and doesn’t believe the results because it takes too long for it to drop in his eyes.”

    Yes, but not insanely slower like things happen in “SPARTAN Time.” Like I mentioned, they may walk around with marginally enhanced reactions, but not so much that everyone sounds like Dory talking to a whale.

  94. Ninja Lowk September 26, 2015 at 10:48 pm -      #94

    @Manswers
    My computer ate my post so summery
    30 meters
     http://s2.photobucket.com/user/ebar0159/media/combat2.jpg.html
    The gameplay is limited in what Adam can do. You aren’t in as much control of the devices as Adam himself would be outside of a game that’s trying to be balanced.

    Deus Ex explosive ammo is both noticeably loud and flashy.

    His eyes are cameras, think sensors or what not that trip alarms. His optic augmentation are always running regardless of how boosted he is. The are also connected to his other sensory equipment that alerts him to other dangers.
    That would then trigger him similar to how a some sensor trigger alarms and etc.
    The bullet scene show that he can go to enhanced state within the time between

    He can recharge by eating. Even without it he is capable of rcharging batteries even before the critical limit. I don’t know how it is going to be in the next game because they’ve stated in interview during demos that its still the alpha and they have it locked in place for infinite energy.

  95. Ninja Lowk September 27, 2015 at 12:07 am -      #95

    Missed one

    Without Mods, so far the only thing Warframe is noted to do is be an armored/shielded shell that shapes vague space magicness into a specific space magic like making guns jam or teleport.

  96. Ninja Lowk September 27, 2015 at 12:40 am -      #96

    “I was quoting:”

    Yeah sorry about that. At least I expanded on the quick and stealthy aspect.

    “Chief and Tenno at the very least equal or surpass Jensen in some of those categories. Others here match or exceed him in other categories as well. And I mean, Jensen’s running feats themselves are more or less typical of a regular human under most circumstances.”

    I don’t think either is inherently bulletproof without their suits.
    Spartan iirc can land silently, somehow. Tenno, eh, I’ll wait till they get aroudn to overhauling the stealth aspects. They might be silent via spiderman jumping through the air but I’m not as sure about being quiet while running.
    Neither have movement feat that put them at bullet like speeds. Reflex and reaction time sure.
    And yes normally but it is shown that he can boost himself along fairly quickly in burst. Which is all he would need unless he is, as you said; trying to to cross a open space.

    Personally the fact that he is also bullet resistant is a pretty good advantage. At least in the first round.
    Every other round and I’m leaning to Chief or the Tenno. Even just the basic stuff not shields or mjolnir(the undersuit was bullet resistant right?).

    Jensen kind of has the advantage due to the first round basically possibly being “one shot, you done” for most everyone else but with armor they are afforded a bit more leeway.

  97. the_man_with The_Answers September 27, 2015 at 1:18 am -      #97

    “30 meters
    s2.photobucket.com/user/ebar0159/media/combat2.jpg.html
    The gameplay is limited in what Adam can do. You aren’t in as much control of the devices as Adam himself would be outside of a game that’s trying to be balanced.”

    And now to show that he can do it at the same speed he can side-step a bullet.

    “Deus Ex explosive ammo is both noticeably loud and flashy.”

    I’ll concede on that front then.

    “His eyes are cameras, think sensors or what not that trip alarms. His optic augmentation are always running regardless of how boosted he is. The are also connected to his other sensory equipment that alerts him to other dangers.
    That would then trigger him similar to how a some sensor trigger alarms and etc.
    The bullet scene show that he can go to enhanced state within the time between”

    Except it could still be said that it was the windows breaking that set him off, not picking up the bullets. Even then, vision isn’t uniform, and as you get farther and farther from center a significant amount of focus/acuity is lost. And what’s more is that in all but the first stage, there are opponents who are going to be using sniper rifles that have velocities over a km/s, so I’m having a very hard time believing Jensen is going to be some bullet dodging robot when he literally only has one feat for it against ambiguously fast bullets after they’ve made their presence clear by other means.

    “He can recharge by eating”

    I guess it’s been awhile since I played. Though that still increases his need to continually find food if he wants to keep operating to the best of his capability.

    “Even without it he is capable of rcharging batteries even before the critical limit.”

    Relatively slowly and not back to full. What I meant by the critical threshold was that sort of last one or two bars that will recharge themselves, or rather, the point where his max rechargeable energy cannot fall any further.

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