Kwa Vs Precursors

Kwa Vs Precursors

Suggested by Starwalker

Kwa will go up against Precursors.

These two races with advanced technology will attempt to defeat each other. Both inhabit half of the Star Wars main galaxy. All techs and official Star Wars and Halo material are allowed.

Who will win?

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56 Comments on "Kwa Vs Precursors"

  1. Rookie September 4, 2015 at 6:40 am -      #1

    Feats for them both?
    Also Kwa dude looks like Palpatine.

  2. lethal_gecko September 4, 2015 at 7:18 am -      #2

    The Kwa appear to be below the Forerunners in terms of tech and the Precursors are the creators of the Forerunners. Their technology is quite literally arcane even to them and the Forerunners rank as one of the highest technological science fiction species ever.

    [#]

    The Precursors use solid neurological science in their constructs which require Halos to destroy, so unless the Kwa can replicate a galaxy wide super weapon that specifically target neurological functions, then, especially if this also includes the Forerunners as their creations, the Precursors hilariously stomp the Kwa since they have no capabilities that the Forerunners themselves can’t do.

    [#]

    I’m fairly sure the Forerunners at their maximum peak could take on the entire main galaxy of Star Wars. Look at the Forerunners vs Galactic Empire thread for details on Forerunner production rates and bs power.

    [#]

    The Didact’s ship, the Mantle’s Approach, soloed the entire post-war Earth’s defenses including a minimum of 7 orbital defense platforms and the home fleet and didn’t take any damage until the UNSC Infinity stepped in with energy projectors, although the damage fixed itself in seconds.
    He did all that in a ship bigger than the 2nd Death Star, with his shields down…

  3. MasterchiefQr September 4, 2015 at 7:44 am -      #3

    Precursors easily.
    ————————————
    “Forerunners rank as one of the highest technological science fiction species ever.”
    —————————————-
    Lol nope. There are loads and loads of more powerful races out there including the Precursors/Flood. The Culture being an example and also the Xeelee. The most powerful race if the Downstreamers at the moment as far as I know.
    ——————————————
    “The Kwa appear to be below the Forerunners in terms of tech”
    ——————————————
    If so then this should be a simple win for the Precursors which can just as easily LOL Stomp the Forerunners.

  4. lethal_gecko September 4, 2015 at 8:41 am -      #4

    I said ONE of, not the most advanced. You can’t deny that the Forerunners are one of the most advanced races in fiction.

    [#]

    The Forerunners beat the Precursors so I don’t know what you’re on about, nonetheless the Precursors still take this by driving their leader insane with a 40 year conversation about ethics.

    [#]

    If you’ve read the Forerunner trilogy then you’ll know that the Forerunners defeat the Precursors.

  5. MasterchiefQr September 4, 2015 at 10:04 am -      #5

    “I said ONE of, not the most advanced. You can’t deny that the Forerunners are one of the most advanced races in fiction.”
    ————————————-
    True but I’ say their only advanced not one of the most not even close.
    ————————————–
    “The Forerunners beat the Precursors so I don’t know what you’re on about, nonetheless the Precursors still take this by driving their leader insane with a 40 year conversation about ethics.”
    ———————————————————————
    Precursors didn’t fight back they let them win, then got corrupted and turned into the vengeful flood after 9 million years. Not a win per say seeing as they all committed suicide while the other purged all those records from that time. Also Forerunners lost to flood. Flood = Precursors. Just saying.
    —————————————-
    And I have all 3 books right in form of me and I’m a lore nut so ….. Sorry if I offended you I was just clearing up facts for other readers.

  6. lethal_gecko September 4, 2015 at 10:07 am -      #6

    No it’s fine but the Flood aren’t Precursors exactly, I’d say more the remnants of them with a different biology.

    [#]

    Also could you really say who won the Forerunner-Flood war? It was more of a stalemate after the Halos were fired.

  7. MasterchiefQr September 4, 2015 at 10:25 am -      #7

    “No it’s fine but the Flood aren’t Precursors exactly, I’d say more the remnants of them with a different biology.”
    —————————-
    True they are remnants, some ppl think that the Flood could be a single Precursors due to the fact that the Primordial channeled all of the Floods actions and help all the info that was collected. So it’s hard to really say.
    ———————
    “Also could you really say who won the Forerunner-Flood war? It was more of a stalemate after the Halos were fired.”
    ————————
    Again true but the Flood seemed to have achieved all their goals and then some. Even going as far to let the Halos fire as a way to destroy the Forerunners soul. The flood also kept all they learned even after 100,000 years and still stick around the galaxy while the Forerunners live in exile somewhere.

  8. Darth Bombad September 4, 2015 at 7:01 pm -      #8

    @gekko post 2
    First the second Death Star is 900km in diameter dwarfing the Mantel.

    Second it solo’d a fleet of pathetic ships, then got blasted by plasma,
    which is apparently the achilles heel of Forerunner tech. (guess what SW fires)

    Third since when did it heal “in seconds”? i haven’t played that level
    in awhile but i don’t remember anything like that.

    As for this match i doubt the Kwa can win they don’t have enough feats.
    All they can really do is spam Infiniti Waves and hope they have an effect.

  9. lethal_gecko September 4, 2015 at 7:46 pm -      #9

    I meant the first Death Star, my bad.
    [#]
    Pathetic to what? Ships more powerful than themselves? Saying a human ship is pathetic to a Forerunner ship is true, but saying it’s pathetic without a reason or anything to compare it to is a fail at debating.
    [#]
    It also took on the Infinity who is a match for some SW ships being the UNSC’s best ship, the home fleet and 7 Orbital Defense platforms that have SMACS. 7 times 51 gigatons per shot in each salvo along with all the other fire power with your shields down is impressive, then 2 energy projectors blasted a hole big enough for a fighter craft which then fixed itself in seconds, which is why the Chief crashed in the MA.
    [#]
    The Infinity (on spacebattles I believe) went toe to toe with the Malevolence and they broke even when utilizing their main tactics, for the Malevolence that’s the ion cannon and for the Infinity it was slipspace ramming.

    [#]

    The Mantle’s Approach is 384km so i wouldn’t call that dwarfing.

  10. erickyboo September 4, 2015 at 7:46 pm -      #10

    I was scrolling and noticed a precursor fan art image! And it was! No official images of precursors [minus the flood [a form of them]] exist. However a precursor artefact might be located on the multiplayer map “Impact” on halo 4.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bh7nkxhXSI
    Since when are the new UNSC ships pathetic? It didn’t get blasted by plasma either. Two MACs, keep in mind that it was tanking the ODPs before that, and that John disabled the orb that provided shielding and destroyed the orbs that powered the particle canons. And look! It heals rather quickly! Damage, gone!

    The Death star II is 160km in diameter. The first one is 120km in Diameter.

    @Gecko, I’m not a big fan of that place. I rather have it here.

  11. lethal_gecko September 4, 2015 at 8:03 pm -      #11

    I know they say MACS but everyone can see that they’re using energy projectors, which isn’t unlikely given all the Forerunner and Covenant tech it has.

  12. erickyboo September 4, 2015 at 8:19 pm -      #12

    They’re MACs though. That’s the canon. That’s how it goes. They’re not energy projectors. Period.
    That’s a fact…
    And that’s only one fact…
    in a pile of facts!

  13. lethal_gecko September 4, 2015 at 8:33 pm -      #13

    I think they’re SMACs if anything.
    They do travel at 4% the speed of light which may be the reason why they look like beams.

  14. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 4, 2015 at 9:04 pm -      #14

    Star Roads for the win!

  15. Darth Bombad September 4, 2015 at 10:23 pm -      #15

    @erickyboo
    So much fail as usual, the DS1 is 160km the DS2 is 900km, the 120 figure
    is bulls#%t that’s only appeared once, and the Mantel is 384km tall.
    It’s not nearly that much wide or deep, but yeah “dwarf” was a bit much.

    The UNSC fleet have always been pretty pathetic, if you think that
    they can stand against anything above BSG level your kidding yourself.
    I mean they fire cannons and missiles… like modern day navy stuff.
    Their only real weapons are the MAC based ones, maybe the bigger nukes.

    As for the Infiniti if your right you just seriously nerfed the Forerunners.
    Because if a shipbored MAC round can actually hurt their supership…

  16. lethal_gecko September 5, 2015 at 2:44 am -      #16

    Well at minimum it was an attack of 100 gigatons in a small space if it was SMACs like the ODPs have, that with your shields down, is incredible. Also the MA is not even the strongest Forerunner ship.

    [#]

    The Infinity, I still believe, used twin energy projectors which is more likely to deal that damage.
    Can you name a sci fi ship who can take 50 gigatons a shot in salvos of 7 with no protection other than hull and take no visible damage?
    Other than that, the Infinity is much stronger than any UNSC ship due to the fact that a lot of it is Forerunner, that’s why it could “attempt” to fight the MA. As for its fight with the Malevolence, in one scenario it got hit by the ion cannon and stopped its shields and guns from working (the engines are Forerunner which aren’t electrical based). In the other, it slipspace rammed the Malevolence in half, Grievous escaped as usual though….

  17. Darth Bombad September 5, 2015 at 3:37 am -      #17

    The Series-8 MAC (the one on infinity) is said to be capable of creating a
    kilometer[s] wide crater on planetary surfaces, so maybe 50Gt’s?.
    No word on the exact yield or whether or not its a SMAC, but it IS really big.
    At least for a shipborn MAC, i agree about the energy projecters btw.

  18. Numinous One September 5, 2015 at 4:39 am -      #18

    I do remember seeing a calc for the SMAC based on it’s KE, worked out at around 38Gt.

  19. lethal_gecko September 5, 2015 at 4:56 am -      #19

    The wiki says ODP SMACs go as high as 50 gt or so, but the Infinity is more than large enough to house them as main guns but I’ll check.

  20. lethal_gecko September 5, 2015 at 5:07 am -      #20

    The armor on the Infinity is 5m thick titanium, I had to get a tape measure just to understand its crazy armor.

  21. erickyboo September 5, 2015 at 10:50 pm -      #21

    The missiles yield are suggested to be quite powerful…
    Hurt their supership? A mosquito can bite us… it remains a weak little thing, unless it has malaria or something.

    I’m surprised you don’t even know the size of the death star. Darth Bombard. The source is from Ultimate Star Wars. Which is canon.
    [:)] The Mantle’s Approach dwarfs the death star I suppose. halo.bungie.org/misc/sloftus_scalecomparison/1280h.html?display=HighCharity

    Infinity is a nice ship gecko
    www.halopedia.org/images/e/e7/H4-UNSC-Infinity-Views.jpg
    No wonder it cost so much.

  22. Darth Bombad September 6, 2015 at 12:44 am -      #22

    @littleboo
    Look kid 160 and 900km have been around for years in many canon sources
    Whereas the BS 120 figure was one source, that they pulled out of their ass.

    And the MAC Did hurt them, other more powerful sci-fi franchises would tear through
    them like butter, oh and the Mantel IS the Forerunners most powerful and
    heavily armed ship, it’s just not their biggest, and it’s taller than DS1 not bigger.

    [edit]
    LoL! High Charity isn’t nearly that big, just play Halo 3.

  23. lethal_gecko September 6, 2015 at 6:02 am -      #23

    How do you know that it’s the most powerful?

    [#]

    And High Charity is that big, compare it to the dreadnought which is 14km tall.
    TMA is actually probably very light, considering the dreadnought weighs less than many current era war ships and is bigger than a mountain.

  24. Darth Bombad September 6, 2015 at 7:42 am -      #24

    ^ Can’t remember where i herd that, but it has been their flagship since
    the Human/Forerunner war, and all through the Flood war.

    It’s not exactly a planetoid in Halo 3, and Bungie/343i is crap with scale, but whatever.
    Maybe we should have High Charity vs a completed Death Star 2 then?.
    With they’re respective protective fleets, and hero characters allowed?.

  25. lethal_gecko September 6, 2015 at 8:10 am -      #25

    The Mantle’s Approach is the largest and most powerful Promethean warship, but not the Forerunner’s greatest. To be honest, they don’t really have much of a limit when it comes to how big their ships can get, since Halos themselves have many of the same functions.

    [#]

    The superlaser, so long as it can destroy HC’s shields will let the DS2 win quite easily, however the fleet surrounding HC is enormous and contains dozens of supercarriers which dwarf the super star destroyer, of which there is only one.

  26. GrandMaster September 6, 2015 at 10:17 pm -      #26

    While the Kwa have very little in technological showings, they have enough to win. All they have to do is sit in the Infinity Realms they create and then spam infinity waves. It will take awhile, but eventually the Precursors will run out of space and be annihilated.

  27. lethal_gecko September 7, 2015 at 2:21 am -      #27

    Nope, can’t even dent Precursor stuff. And they’re masters of slipspace, another dimension to them. If it’s just another dimension then the Precursors can most probably find a way in.

  28. Darth Bombad September 7, 2015 at 3:37 am -      #28

    ^
    First that’s a nlf second it doesn’t “dent” them it drags them to infiniti destroying them.
    And since it also destroys Hyperspace which is basically the same as Slipspace.
    I’m pretty sure the Precusors can’t hide from them, so yeah they have a chance.

  29. GrandMaster September 7, 2015 at 9:59 am -      #29

    “Nope, can’t even dent Precursor stuff. And they’re masters of slipspace, another dimension to them. If it’s just another dimension then the Precursors can most probably find a way in.”

    It’s not an issue of physical durability. The Infinity Waves drag stuff into oblivion. Effectively removing them from existence. And the only way inside the Infinity team without being destroyed is through Star Chambers, which only Kwa can open. And if the Precursors try to force their way in the temples can be detonated unleashing a solar system sized infinity wave. Also the Precursor material, while durable, can break as shown in Cryptum where some of the bigger star roads shattered over time.

  30. lethal_gecko September 7, 2015 at 12:13 pm -      #30

    The Precursors are an inter-galactic species. So you intend to destroy Precursor tech by waiting it out? If so then you’ll be waiting a few billion years, which they can do considering the Primordial spent 9 million years doing nothing.
    There probably won’t be any memory of the Kwa after that.
    Precursor tech is stated to be indestructible to anything that does not possess neurological weapons.

  31. GrandMaster September 7, 2015 at 12:41 pm -      #31

    “The Precursors are an inter-galactic species. So you intend to destroy Precursor tech by waiting it out? If so then you’ll be waiting a few billion years, which they can do considering the Primordial spent 9 million years doing nothing.”

    They won’t have any space left. If necessary the entire galaxy will be sucked into Infinity. It may take awhile, but it will work. The Precursors have nothing they can do about it.

    “There probably won’t be any memory of the Kwa after that.
    Precursor tech is stated to be indestructible to anything that does not possess neurological weapons.”

    They aren’t indestructible, that’s a no limits fallacy. We also have an example of their stuff breaking after long dormancy. In addition, it doesn’t matter how durable it is if it gets sucked into Infinity.

  32. lethal_gecko September 7, 2015 at 2:21 pm -      #32

    I’m sorry but if the Kwa’s only hope to beat the Precursors is to run, hide and wait it out then they’ll lose and it won’t be a fight either, I think we’ve already decided that the Precursors are far beyond them if the Forerunners are too.

    [#]

    The no limits fallacy is not applicable here since it CAN be destroyed, other wise it would be applicable to: you can shoot a tank with an M16 as much as you like but you still won’t destroy it.
    If it was flat out indestructible then that would be different, but it’s not. This is just an example of the Precursor’s superior technology. Now if the Kwa are as advanced as they’re made out to be, they’ll develop a weapon to fight them, after all that’s how Halos came about isn’t it?

    [#]

    We haven’t even discussed the threat of the Flood, that alone takes this.
    [#]
    The Kwa will die of old age before they win against the Precursors. I highly doubt they can keep the entirety of their species protected in these “inaccessible” dimensions, wait, that looks like a no limits fallacy since that’s no different to being invulnerable if you think about it. If the Precursors can’t access it then that makes the Kwa invincible which isn’t allowed.

    [#]

    Infinity waves, if they really do as you have stated, are an example of the Unstoppable Force and thus are not allowable due to the no limits fallacy. Their greatest feat can be used instead, so what’s that?

  33. GrandMaster September 7, 2015 at 6:02 pm -      #33

    “I’m sorry but if the Kwa’s only hope to beat the Precursors is to run, hide and wait it out then they’ll lose and it won’t be a fight either, I think we’ve already decided that the Precursors are far beyond them if the Forerunners are too.”

    More like run to their control room and hit their super weapon button until the Precursors are gone but whatever floats your boat. It’s not really waiting it out it will just take a long time. Process of elimination.

    “The no limits fallacy is not applicable here since it CAN be destroyed, other wise it would be applicable to: you can shoot a tank with an M16 as much as you like but you still won’t destroy it.”

    You shoot a tank a couple million times with an M16 you will destroy it. It just takes a long time. It’s like erosion. A couple waves against a cliff won’t do anything, but an entire ocean pounding on it for thousands of years will bring that cliff down.

    “If it was flat out indestructible then that would be different, but it’s not. This is just an example of the Precursor’s superior technology. Now if the Kwa are as advanced as they’re made out to be, they’ll develop a weapon to fight them, after all that’s how Halos came about isn’t it?”

    They already have a weapon that can kill them. Infinity Waves.

    “We haven’t even discussed the threat of the Flood, that alone takes this.”

    They actually do even worse, considering they will have nothing to feed on because all the Kwa will flee to the Infinity Realm. Also just making declarations that such and such faction stomps without anything to back it up isn’t arguing and it’s not convincing.

    “The Kwa will die of old age before they win against the Precursors. I highly doubt they can keep the entirety of their species protected in these “inaccessible” dimensions, wait, that looks like a no limits fallacy since that’s no different to being invulnerable if you think about it. If the Precursors can’t access it then that makes the Kwa invincible which isn’t allowed.”

    It doesn’t make you invincible. You just can’t be reached because your in a different dimension. It would be like trying to punch an atom. That atom isn’t invincible, but your fist won’t hit it because it’s to small. And there is this thing called reproduction, which will keep the Kwa kicking. All they have to do is put a couple of infinity waves around their planets, blocking them off from any and all attacks, and then spamming infinity waves until the Precursors are gone.

    “Infinity waves, if they really do as you have stated, are an example of the Unstoppable Force and thus are not allowable due to the no limits fallacy. Their greatest feat can be used instead, so what’s that?”

    The Infinity Waves aren’t destructive weapons, like bombs or guns. They work by removing the area that is targeted from existence and sending it to Infinity. It’s effectively a giant BFR.

  34. lethal_gecko September 7, 2015 at 8:04 pm -      #34

    That’s therefore an unstoppable force as it has no limitations to its destructive capacity and so is not allowed.
    [#]
    What if a single Flood spore infects someone before they retreat? You say it like they won’t try other methods before using their fail-safe? Because no one opens with their biggest guns first.
    [#]

    This is a fight, not a siege. The two factions are actively battling each other, you can’t run and hide otherwise it wouldn’t belong on BankGambling. If that were the case, the Precursors could leave Kwa space and never return, therefore granting the same victory, or they could hide in slipspace and also be untouchable.
    [#]

    You still haven’t countered the no limits fallacy set on the Kwa, there’s 2 of them, essential invincibility and an unstoppable force.
    [#]
    “It doesn’t make you invincible”. You countered your own argument, “blocking them off from any and all attacks”, that sounds like invincibility to me.
    [#]
    The Kwa will probably respond in a similar way to the Flood as the Forerunners did. The Forerunners couldn’t hide themselves in slipspace forever to be safe from it either. By the time they resort to run and hide, they will have already sustained enough casualties and infections to turn the tide. After all, if a more advanced and powerful race fell to the Flood, why can’t the Kwa?
    While the Forerunners don’t have these infinity waves, they have equivalents.

  35. BC September 7, 2015 at 11:10 pm -      #35

    Kwa technology in general is unknown, it may be “below forerunner” tech level or it may be beyond it. How the two match up is literally unknowable because the information is simply non-existent.


    There are exactly two things known about their (the Kwa) technology:

    First, the Force is not separate from their tech like it is in the current civilizations, it is part of it. That means that some parts seem missing because instead of coming up with a tech solution to things that the force can do they just used the force instead. This includes hyperspace travel; they would consider the Sith Meditation Sphere ship quaint and primitive but akin to their own tech for example.

    The second known thing is a tiny bit about the Infinity technology. It directly acts upon the quantum membrane and can rewrite the quantum aspects of things, most importantly their position, and also do strange things with points in space like making a kind of doorway with one side on one planet and the other side on a planet in another galaxy.

    Apparently they could also make a kind of ‘blister’ on the universe membrane to create a space that isolated from it yet accessible through Infinity tech if you know where to find it. The Star Chambers were all in these pocket universes and projected their effects from where they were created (like Dathomir).

    The Kwa stopped ‘traveling’ in the normal sense once they developed that tech; after all, why expend energy moving things when you can simply redefine their position? The dangerous part is that it is apparently possible to set an ‘invalid’ position and cause the object to exit the universe into nowhere.

    Another known feat of the Infinity tech is that it can be used to kind of twist space over vast areas which makes it difficult (though not impossible) to use jump drives like hyperspace (and most likely slipspace as well since gravity seems to have some effect on transitions or at least it does in the early books IIRC).

    The modern Star Wars galaxy is actually only half of one (roughly) since the Kwa divided it more or less in half with a barrier of roiled space (creating what is nowadays called the ‘unknown regions’) to encourage the Rakatans to stay in their half. In hindsight it was not a particularly effective strategy since not only did they leave a few gates open on the wrong side, the gravatic wrinkles can be navigated by using the force if one has the right force affinities which is how Rakatan drives worked in the first place.

    The tech is not without its limits, and the Kwa seemed to be rather stupid when it came to warfare on top of it.

    One limit is that while relocation from one point to another is instant once the object is manipulated by the portal, the portal Wave itself has a finite speed when it has to travel long distances to the object to be manipulated, as in when it is being used as a weapon. Also the wave is dependent upon the Star Chamber it is generated by until it reaches the target and acts upon it, so it can be cancelled in mid-flight (which unfortunately causes feedback that can destroy the chamber equipment).

    I do not know exactly what the speed of the Wave is on the way to its target, but it seems to be similar to the faster trips in hyperspace since Voss had a few hours to get into the chamber and stop it before it crossed from Dathomir (in the Quelii sector) to its target Corescant.

  36. Numinous One September 7, 2015 at 11:37 pm -      #36

    “That’s therefore an unstoppable force as it has no limitations to its destructive capacity and so is not allowed.”

    I think you missed what they were saying, the Infinity gates don’t have a yield to measure, they aren’t destructive, so it simply cannot be a case of Unstoppable Force.
    They are essentially space magic teleporters on a big scale, to simplify.

    The question that should have been asked is, do the Precursors have any showings of defending against being forcefully relocated outside of the universe?
    If not, the IG’s will work.

  37. GrandMaster September 7, 2015 at 11:44 pm -      #37

    “That’s therefore an unstoppable force as it has no limitations to its destructive capacity and so is not allowed.”

    As I said before, the Infinity Waves are not destructive weapons. They work by pulling you into a different dimension, resulting in a battle field removal. Think of it like locking someone in a room with no way out and throwing away the key, rendering them unable to fight. That’s essentially what an Infinity Wave does, except on a massive scale.

    “What if a single Flood spore infects someone before they retreat? You say it like they won’t try other methods before using their fail-safe? Because no one opens with their biggest guns first.”

    The Kwa are force sensitive, they will know if they are being infiltrated by Flood. And the Kwa did not have a traditional fleet or ground army, they travelled via Infinity Gates, which can be set to teleport someone instantaneously. They were pacifists by nature and rarely used their weapons. But because this is a BankGambling match, they will act bloodlusted and go all out.

    “This is a fight, not a siege. The two factions are actively battling each other, you can’t run and hide otherwise it wouldn’t belong on BankGambling. If that were the case, the Precursors could leave Kwa space and never return, therefore granting the same victory, or they could hide in slipspace and also be untouchable.”

    The Kwa are fighting. They are retreating to an area where they cannot be reached and firing off their super weapons until the Precursors capitulate. And while the Precursors could hide in Slipspace or flee, they would have no way to hurt the Kwa by doing this. Where as the Kwa still have their weapons if they flee to the infinity realm.

    ““It doesn’t make you invincible”. You countered your own argument, “blocking them off from any and all attacks”, that sounds like invincibility to me.”

    I don’t think you understand, the Kwa will be in a pocket dimension of their own creation, it’s not a matter of durability, it’s simply that the Precursors can’t get to them, while the Kwa can leave when the coast is clear.

    “The Kwa will probably respond in a similar way to the Flood as the Forerunners did. The Forerunners couldn’t hide themselves in slipspace forever to be safe from it either. By the time they resort to run and hide, they will have already sustained enough casualties and infections to turn the tide. After all, if a more advanced and powerful race fell to the Flood, why can’t the Kwa?”

    The Kwa don’t have a standing army or fleet. Their go to weapon is the Gates. And when you have a weapon that can BFR an entire planet in a single shot from any range, you really don’t need a standing army or fleet. And the Kwa would have had thousands of gates at their height.

    “While the Forerunners don’t have these infinity waves, they have equivalents.”

    Such as?

    I don’t think you are understanding how this will work.
    -The Kwa use Infinity Gates to travel around the Galaxy, instead of conventional ships.

    -These Infinity Gates that are normally used for transportation can instead be used as weapons, called Infinity Waves, which target anywhere in the Galaxy and suck a planet-sized hole in reality aswell as creating gravity distortion across an entire sector, which would disrupt Slipspace travel.

    -The Infinity Gates are controlled from Stellar Control Stations, which are locked inside pocket dimensions of Infinity. The entrances and exits to these pocket dimensions are inside Star Temples, which are located on Kwa planets.

    -These Pocket Realms of Infinity can be sealed, protecting them from outside interference, which is what happened after the Kwa left the Galaxy so the gates couldn’t Be tampered with by the Rakata.

    This leaves the Precursors with almost no options. While they May be able to shut down a few portals before it’s to late, they won’t get them all. And the Kwa only need one.

  38. lethal_gecko September 8, 2015 at 6:42 am -      #38

    The infinity wave still doesn’t have an upper limit though, anyway then it looks like neither win.

    [#]

    As for equivalent weapons, the Forerunners can detonate solar systems which will generate essentially the same outcome even if it isn’t just removing targets from the universe since all the Kwa seem to want is to destroy the target in a sense or so that they are no longer a threat.

  39. GrandMaster September 8, 2015 at 9:33 pm -      #39

    “The infinity wave still doesn’t have an upper limit though, anyway then it looks like neither win.”

    The Precursors can’t get to the Kwa, where as the Kwa have a weapon that the Precursors cannot avoid, seems pretty clear the Kwa take it.

  40. Starwalker September 10, 2015 at 5:20 pm -      #40

    So the winner is ……..

  41. Darth Bombad September 11, 2015 at 9:40 pm -      #41

    +1 For The Kwa. (yeah even i’m a little surprised)

  42. the_man_with The_Answers September 11, 2015 at 10:12 pm -      #42

    How people come to a conclusion on a winner between two almost entirely unquantifiable entities that more or less both exist in the metaphysical is entirely beyond me. Besides franchise favoritism of course.

  43. Darth Bombad September 12, 2015 at 8:24 pm -      #43

    Mostly unquantifiable, but the Kwa can destroy Slipspace. leaving them
    no where to hide. While the Precursors have no known way to retaliate.
    Therefore i say again, plus 1 for The Kwa in a surprise victory.

    And as for franchise favoritism. Something about a pot and kettle comes to mind.

  44. the_man_with The_Answers September 12, 2015 at 8:39 pm -      #44

    “Mostly unquantifiable, but the Kwa can destroy Slipspace. leaving them
    no where to hide.”

    Slipspace is something like 11 different dimensions rolled into one. And Slipspace isn’t the only dimension the Forerunnesr/Precursors can access. Nor is it any sort of “confined” or “tangible” space. You’d have to prove they can destroy to what amounts to infinite space in a multitude of foreign dimensions.

    And the Precursors are like, metaphysical in the first place.

    “And as for franchise favoritism. Something about a pot and kettle comes to mind.”

    I’m not the one claiming one intangible faction can beat another intangible faction here. I’m the one pointing out intangible factions are indeed intangible.

  45. Darth Bombad September 12, 2015 at 9:03 pm -      #45

    Elemental compatibility is always a tricky debate. But slipspace and hyperspace
    function almost identically to eachother. So make of that what you will.

    That was just a light jab at your tendency to lowball everything while highballing Halo.

    “intangible factions are indeed intangible.”
    So a stalemate then? a draw, a tie, deadlock… How unsatisfying.

  46. erickyboo September 12, 2015 at 9:36 pm -      #46

    Stop namecalling!
    The source is the only canon source we have for the death star.

    Precursors don’t have to use slipstream space by the way… They can use Neural physics to transit, differently from slipspace.

  47. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 12, 2015 at 9:55 pm -      #47

    Like Erickyboo said, the Precursors don’t use Slipspace, they used Neural physics, mainly in the form of star roads that bent and mutated space-time.

    Has anyone touched upon the topic of durability in relation to Precursor ships? Weren’t they practically invincible except for when riding themselves of “multiversal residue”? Or the fact that if there are any Star Roads in the Kwa’s system, the fight is over as soon as it starts? Star Roads can tear a planet to nothing in seconds.

  48. the_man_with The_Answers September 12, 2015 at 9:56 pm -      #48

    “Elemental compatibility is always a tricky debate. But slipspace and hyperspace
    function almost identically to eachother. So make of that what you will.”

    But slipspace/hyperspace and “the glow” don’t function the same. Or slipspace/hyperspace and Shunspace, or whatever have you.

    “That was just a light jab at your tendency to lowball everything while highballing Halo.”

    I don’t fucking “high-ball Halo.” Board consensus on S-MACs is something along the lines of 50 Gigatons. I hardly support that notion. 50 Megatons, maybe, is what I value S-MACs at. I don’t wank up Halo infantry or vehicle weapons into the megajoules or gigajoules like I see so many other people do for other franchises. I may correct your incorrect statements on the long range ballistics of projectile-based weaponry, but that’s because long-range shooting is literally one of my biggest hobbies IRL. But that’s hardly wank, considering I’ll never state an MA5C carries more than 4.5kJ of kinetic energy, and only that it will maintain that energy superbly out to 300 or 500 meters.

    If anything, I low-ball everything, including Halo. “Low-ball” as in I find the notion of extremely common megajoule+ infantry weapons and gigaton+ ship weapons absurd in most setting where they are thrown around so casually.

    “So a stalemate then? a draw, a tie, deadlock… How unsatisfying.”

    Unfortunately that’s what happens when you stick two more or less metaphysical entities in a match against each other.

  49. Darth Bombad September 12, 2015 at 10:24 pm -      #49

    @booboo
    “The source is the only canon source we have for the death star.”
    There are plenty of canon sources. All of which supercede that BS figure.

    @the_man_with The_Answers
    “only that it will maintain that energy superbly out to 300 or 500 meters.”
    But is there proof that they hold their energy at that range?. besides penetrating
    covie armor, because that’s just proof that their armor sucks. And that
    a rifle like the SCAR H would do the same damage to them at the same range.

    @Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable
    Infinity waves would do the same. And no, you don’t get to start with
    your gun to someones head. That would be plain stupid.

  50. the_man_with The_Answers September 12, 2015 at 11:18 pm -      #50

    “There are plenty of canon sources. All of which supercede that BS figure.”

    Plenty of Legends canon sources. Not Disney canon sources.

    “But is there proof that they hold their energy at that range?.”

    Uhhh, the fact that it is a high-pressure .308 round with a higher muzzle velocity than modern rounds?
    From the muzzle to 300 meters or so, the MA-series rifle should go from about 905m/s to 720m/s or there abouts, if it is anything at all like a regular 7.62x51mm round. Which means the energy should go from 4.5kJ to 2.9kJ. Which is to say, being hit with a round from a MA-series rifle at 300 meters is like being hit with a modern 7.62x51mm sniper load at near point-blank. So yeah, it carries it’s energy pretty well. At 900 meters it should still have about 900J, which is drastically more than a modern round at ~700 joules. Mind you, both these rounds are still super-sonic at this range, though the Halo round more so than the modern round.

    And this is all assuming no greater machining, materials science, and so on that would theoretically improve the construction of the “factory load” traits, particularly the ballistic coefficient.

    So no, a SCAR-H would not do the same damage at the same range. Actually not even close, because it doesn’t even use the M118 long range round. An estimated 2kJ compared to the MA-series’ 2.9kJ, which is closer to being hit with a SCAR-H at point blank in terms of energy.

    Of course, why listen to someone who has years of experience with long range shooting when you can just keep dodging my posts on the matter like the last time you brought up the MA-series’ “pathetic range.”

  51. BC September 13, 2015 at 1:34 am -      #51

    ” Plenty of Legends canon sources. Not Disney canon sources. ”

    Using Disney canon for a match is pretty much useless really, there is nothing but what is in the movies, Rebels cartoons, and (at least partially if not all of) the Clone Wars series. This match it is impossible to use Disney canon only for instance since it only goes back as far as the prequel series.

    That does bring up the point though that new matches involving Star Wars need to state whether they are using old canon, Disney canon or a mix of the two to avoid pages of argument over which is in effect instead of what the match is about. Just like how new matches using Trek need to state in the headers whether it is main universe Trek or the Abrams Trek branch being used.

  52. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 13, 2015 at 1:47 am -      #52

    @Darth
    “Infinity waves would do the same.”
    – Do the same as Star Roads? Than how are they useful? The Kwa send Precursors to some place and the Precursors jump back, makes the Infinity Waves pretty useless.

    “And no, you don’t get to start with
    your gun to someones head. That would be plain stupid.”
    – Then Precursors bring Star Roads with them… and the Kwa are shit out of luck still.
    ==
    Still nothing on the apparent indestructible nature of Precursor ships. Is that out or…?

  53. the_man_with The_Answers September 13, 2015 at 2:08 am -      #53

    “Using Disney canon for a match is pretty much useless really, there is nothing but what is in the movies, Rebels cartoons, and (at least partially if not all of) the Clone Wars series. This match it is impossible to use Disney canon only for instance since it only goes back as far as the prequel series.”

    I’m aware of that. He’s talking about the actual CANON size of the Deathstar though. Which is sort of a tangent to the actual topic.

  54. Darth Bombad September 13, 2015 at 2:41 am -      #54

    @Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable
    They drag you to infinity and destroy you. It’s a bfr that also scatters your
    mass to endless nothing. besides you’d need proof they could just “jump back”.
    And their ships aren’t “indescribable” that’s a long debunked nlf.

    @the_man_with The_Answers
    I’ll accept that. But you claim the range issue is because of covie armor.
    As far as i know no such thing has ever been stated or even implied.
    All we know is that the MA-series is simply inaccurate beyond 300m.

    Also claiming “years of experience” means nothing on the internet. I could
    claim 15 years of experience in the marines and it would be irrelevant.

  55. the_man_with The_Answers September 13, 2015 at 12:21 pm -      #55

    “I’ll accept that. But you claim the range issue is because of covie armor.”

    Considering the MA-series rifle has been accurate beyond 300 meters, and effective range is often a measure of the range at which you can expect accuracy and lethality, Covie armor is the most likely explanation. Like how the BR has been stated to be deadly out to 950 meters, but it’s effective range in context against Covenant enemies is 200 meters.

    “All we know is that the MA-series is simply inaccurate beyond 300m.”

    From Contact Harvest:
    “Jenkins sighted downrange, sweat beading on his brow. Lying prone, left arm tight against his MA5’s sling, the three-hundred-meter target was easy pickings. Five rounds, five hits.

    Jenkins grinned. Yesterday he’d never held a weapon. Today he couldn’t put it down.”

    That’s not what you would expect from a weapon that is pushing the mechanical limit of its accuracy at that range. We HAVE plenty of data on the long range ballistics for 7.62x51mm rounds, and their accuracy does not suffer a steep drop off at 300 meters, like say a 5.56 NATO round. Even then 5.56 NATO can still get out plenty further.

    “Also claiming “years of experience” means nothing on the internet. I could
    claim 15 years of experience in the marines and it would be irrelevant.”

    Do you want pictures?
    ~3 years ago, AK-74 firing off-hand at a rock ~200 meters away. I’ve also taken that particular rifle to the range and nailed the 330 meter plate with its open sights
    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/557189_1419872998224869_2116154095_n.jpg?oh=1bd0220dd18caa87064b7442737d5f95&oe=56A4BE2D

    Some fun time shooting a Sig400, close range though:
    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1011413_1475559252656243_1995409055_n.jpg?oh=c489313c98d379af9b16f8ac8911e0e1&oe=5664E3DE

    Setting up for a 300 meter target with my buddy’s customized Desert-Tactical SRS-A1. First group ended up being 0.3MOA, or 1 inch at 300 meters
    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/21749_1625934077618759_4140315189320251080_n.jpg?oh=fb5fe6ed0afc0fb19a591c38b813f320&oe=5660F001

    The first 3-round group I fired from my friend’s .223 Savage Axis (Worst trigger and stock on a rifle I’ve ever seen) using the cheapest bottom shelf ammo from Walmart
    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10712860_1553300434882124_2222699545673672868_n.jpg?oh=187fdfbd01d7bdd4eebbccd942049ec0&oe=56A33530

    Me with a .223 AR (It’s a Sig, but I can’t remember which model) firing at a 300 meter target:
    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10710942_771649272901289_8132507349055721071_n.jpg?oh=bbcbb3a1282f76847969eedc50d9fab1&oe=56631075

    Grouping at said target, slightly down and to the right, but the group itself is tight. About as tight as that AR will ever get at that range anyways. The three bottom most holes were from some .30cal shooter who must have used that target stand beforehand.

    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10698594_771649509567932_5219709697857023598_n.jpg?oh=28292bfaaac24fee04a2a1a883c677a4&oe=569F1D1E

    Here is an extra relevant grouping. My Howa 1500 chambered in 7mm-08 (IE a slightly necked-down .308, IE comparable ballistics to a 7.62x51mm). On a windy day no less.
    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10891991_1584771578401676_8332161387103519276_n.jpg?oh=9fa2044b29157a9a984de87b44a67abb&oe=566DD5BF

    Throw-back to the waaaaaaaay past with what more or less got me into the long-range scene, which would be hunting (Whitetail specifically)
    scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/155995_178343748859545_6779162_n.jpg?oh=7837e7a1134092530f7bb67dc7960b39&oe=56602271

    I’m sure I can find more pictures if I scour the depths of Facebook, but those I think qualify sufficient proof. If you’re still hungry for pictures, I can post some from when I build myself a new long-range rifle (Chambered in 30-06, hopefully will get me out to 1,000 meters+) in the next week or two.

  56. Darth Bombad September 13, 2015 at 10:50 pm -      #56

    That’ll do. Putting forth actual pictures of yourself, putting your money
    where your mouth is so to speak. You don’t really see that on the internet.

    Respect. (fist bump)

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