Advent Vs Covenant

Covenant Vs Advent

Suggested by Inarto

Covenant (Halo) will go up against Advent (Sins of a Solar Empire).

Who will win?

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38 Comments on "Advent Vs Covenant"

  1. Alphastriker August 21, 2015 at 12:07 am -      #1

    No idea who the Advent are, I’ll need to do some research on them. Until I get some idea as to their capabilities, my money is on the Covenant.

  2. Ordo11 August 21, 2015 at 12:25 am -      #2

    Advent are pretty powerful, they have strong shields and plasma weapons along with nuclear bombardment capabilities.They also fight against people who can snipe planets from across a solar system.

  3. Ninja Lowk August 21, 2015 at 1:11 am -      #3

    So many new fictions coming into BankGambling lately. I don’t know anything about most of them but it is nice to see variety.

  4. Ordo11 August 21, 2015 at 1:47 am -      #4

    Sins is fun, and the advent are a human religious fanatic group, really very insane.

    Also I don’t know if this matters, but do they get the rebels?

  5. Around999People August 21, 2015 at 1:50 am -      #5

    The advent are psychic if I remember correctly. Able to tell if a ship is heading for one of their planets even if it’s 2 jumps away.

    ~~

    Also, Sins is one of my fav games

  6. Ordo11 August 21, 2015 at 2:33 am -      #6

    Yup that’s right, thanks for reminding me. Don’t they also use psychic powers to hurt enemy ships?

  7. Draco August 21, 2015 at 2:34 am -      #7

    I’m not very versed in sins lore, but from game play of rebels the advent are powerful physics with abilities capable of turning enemies into permanent allies (even those versed in brainwashing and propaganda such as the Vasari) as well as reconstituting entire battleships from thin air with just the power of their mind (an ability that spawns these shis at their home planet)

    They’re protoss like in the fact that their shields are the strongest in the game (afaik). But their strongest abilities are use of mass brainwashing, even able to turn entire planets worth of people to their side permanently with one attack.

    I’m not sure how well their ships stack up against covenant, but with the ability to brainwash in huge amounts and reconstitute entire ships in the blink of an eye could put them as a major threat.

  8. zeretulee August 21, 2015 at 3:32 am -      #8

    simply due to the brain washing they could cause the covenant to collapse.
    the unggoy and kig-yar are especially susceptible this.

  9. Jolttra August 21, 2015 at 4:26 am -      #9

    Been looking for something to use to estimate the Advent’s population. Have found nothing. For all I know they could have 10 planets or a billion. So numbers won’t be any help here. Unless someone else can find something.

  10. lethal_gecko August 21, 2015 at 8:57 am -      #10

    Well the Covenant have the Forerunner Dreadnought, so if anything is going to be a problem for the opposing side it’s that.

  11. Shadow-Knight August 21, 2015 at 10:04 am -      #11

    Unless the brainwash the crew of said dreadnaught…………

  12. lethal_gecko August 21, 2015 at 10:37 am -      #12

    That would be difficult considering it uses AI and sentinels to pilot it.

  13. lethal_gecko August 21, 2015 at 12:36 pm -      #13

    Also I highly doubt that it will effect a Mgalekgolo hunter as it’s a hive mind, flood infection is essentially mind control in a way as well as physical assimilation and they are immune to it.

  14. Belisaurius August 21, 2015 at 1:37 pm -      #14

    It’s difficult to get a sense of scale for Sins, in game their capital ships are on the same scale of the Forerunner Keyship.

    On the other hand, in game these ships can fly through stars.

    The Forerunner dreadnought it’self isn’t much of an issue as the Covenant only has one and no means of reproducing it.

    The Mgalekgolo are immune to the flood as their biology is compartmentalized. Each worm is capable of surviving independently. However, a Hunter is a single entity with a single mind. Convince the mind that it should follow and the biology is irrelevant.

    AIs aren’t going to be an issue either. The Advent have Anima, telekinetics that can control their fighters at long range. By the same virtue they may be able to control an AI by directly effecting the circuitry it exists on.

  15. lethal_gecko August 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm -      #15

    If it’s the Forerunner AI of the keyship then no, that’s way beyond circuitry. The Forerunners don’t use electrical circuits, they use hard light as a means to send information and the like. I’ve never seen anything Forerunner that runs on electricity or has wires.

    Also Hunters don’t remain a single entity constantly, only when in combat form. Any mind control that could effect them would break when they disperse. Also does this mind control effect the central nervous system? (as most forms do) since you can’t actually interact with a “mind” without some kind of magic or something. A hunter has no central nervous system to be effected.

  16. the_man_with The_Answers August 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm -      #16

    Pretty sure there’s a mod for Sins of a Solar Empire that Halo-izes it called Sins of the Prophets.

    Ahhh yes, here it is:

  17. mortis August 21, 2015 at 10:37 pm -      #17

    I’m not sure about the advent, but my money’s on the covenant. just look at the energy projectors. for those of you who don’t know what those are, they are ship mounted highly concentrated beam of plasma with a
    range of 100,000 kilometers. they are used to snipe ships from a quite large distance, and have been described to gut ships, end to end.

    now I have to ask, is this all ages? cause if it is, then is the unyielding hierophant in this? cause if it is it will definitely be a factor in this war

  18. itcheyness August 23, 2015 at 9:46 am -      #18

    Since we use most recent combat capable incarnation, this would probably be The Covenant without elites and High Charity at the beginning of Halo 3.

    Since the one ship that we saw using those long range energy projectors was taken down at Reach, it probably wouldn’t be here either. You’d have to prove that The Covenant has other ships like it to be able to use it’s feats.

  19. lethal_gecko August 24, 2015 at 4:08 pm -      #19

    All Covenant space faring vessels of sufficient mass have at least one energy projector. Standard destroyers have 2 I think and the CCS class battle cruiser has 1, you can see it glassing New Alexandria in Halo Reach.
    The Super Carrier, Long Night of Solace has 7.

  20. Ishamael August 24, 2015 at 6:13 pm -      #20

    Hey, everyone! Long-time lurker, fair-weather commenter, here. “Fair-weather”, to me, being a match-up with few posts, and most people lacking information about one of the combatants, who I know a little more about.

    itcheyness said that we use the most recent combat capable incarnation of each. The Covenant without elites and High Charity only leaves the Unyielding Hierophant against the Advent.

    When it comes down to it, it is a battle of ship tech and ship diversity.

    The Covenant have 3 types of armature: pulse laser turret (P/D), plasma turret (ship-to-ship armature), and an energy projector (“Glassing” gun)

    Depending on the class, a ship might have one or all of these guns. Pulse laser turrets operate as point-defense turrets. That is to say that their range is limited, and they are only useful within the turret’s limitations on angles.

    Plasma turrets fire magnetically shielded bolts of plasma. While this does substantial damage to material/steel armature, it is not the most effective armature against shields.

    Finally, we have the energy projector. Otherwise known as a “glassing” gun. These are usually placed on the ships with stronger energy systems. The restrictions surrounding such a gun are as such:
    Unless the generators are sufficient, firing the energy projector could put all electrical systems offline, until the generator is able to catch up to the drain it will have caused.

    If the ship’s generator is sufficient to fire the gun, without any electrical down-time, it is the only gun the ship will be able to fire, as it does so.

    While the beam has an effective range of over 100,000 km, when you realize that the moon is just shy of 400k km from Earth, and Advent ships can have weapon-ranges that span the radius of a planets gravity well, it more or less makes the 100k km effective range obsolete.

    Advent have beam, laser, plasma, and point-defense laser systems. This is not counting their Titan’s spirit blade armature. Even if we chalk up the laser, plasma, and point-defense lasers as the same damage value, it doesn’t subtract from the fact that Advent long-range cruisers have guns capable of out-sniping Covenant cruisers, with their energy projector.

    Where the Advent REALLY begin to pull away, is in shielding. The Covenant have a starship shielding with more than a few downfalls. First, whenever it fires its plasma or pulse lasers, the Covenant ship must disengage their shielding. Advent ships are shown to operate both their shielding and their weaponry, simultaneously.

    Secondly, while Covenant shields are excellent against the UNSC projectile armatures, the Advent do not employ ANY projectile weapons, preferring to resort to beam weapons, lasers and plasma. “directed energy weaponry can disable shields with relative ease” (From halo.wikia). They are also extremely susceptible to EMPs, of which many of the Advent capitals employ maliciously.

    On the other hand, Advent shielding is much more sophisticated, as one of the Advent skills lies in their superior shields, through their large ships’ vast reserves, and their sophisticated shield mitigation, allowing their ship AI to automatically harmonize shield frequencies to that of the attacks being fired.

    In a general sense, Advent tech out-classes Covenant tech. Named ships have special weapons, for the Advent. Also, we haven’t even started to talk about the huge variety of Advent ships, which function from dps to support and enemy ship hampering.

    It would seem that Covenant ships are not very diverse. I spent a long time looking up different classes of Covenant capitals, and got nowhere. Some were less armed and geared to cargo, others were more armed with amp’d up shields. The only major difference was in design and their limited armature load-out.

    Advent fleets have ships capable of multitudes of feats. For example: One can magnetically manipulate mines. They can move or self-destruct mines, or set them to home in on their original owner’s ships. Another is capable of hampering enemy engines. The cruiser, known as the Domina Subjugator, is capable of rendering enemy ships (bar none) immobile, for a time. Not only are they immobile, but they are “Ability disabled, construction disabled, phase jump disabled, and weapons disabled. Coupled with Their Revelation capital ship’s Reverie skill, you can add Sub-light main engines/maneuvering engines and passive regen. (of all sorts) to that list.

    They have phase jump inhibitors, which lengthen the amount of time it takes to just to FTL by 700%, and we still have yet to talk about either one of the two Avent Titans. :)

    Without taking the inordinate amount of time to comment on the proverbial “nail in the coffin”, the only other thing worth estimating is population, or battle numbers.

    We have a rough estimate for Covenant forces, as, by the end of Halo 2 (which is what we’re using, I assume), the Unyielding Hierophant was capable of fielding close to 500 ships. As this was about what MC destroyed, along with the station, outside of troop-count, I’d say that 500 ships is the remainder of the Covenant fleet.

    The reason why we can’t really estimate the Advent ship number is because we never really get any help, neither in-game nor from the wiki. Looking at the in-game fleet supply, an advent player could field 16 capital ships, or 13 and 1 titan ship, and up to 2500 supply worth of cruisers and frigates. The most expensive cruiser is worth 20 supply, and they can field 125 of them, with max supply. Thus, a single player sits between 159 and 161 ships.

    But this is just a sect of Advent ships. I say this, because it is not only implied, but possible for more players to field multiple loyalist or rebel fleets in one game. Some games can hold from 5-6 players, all of which could play loyalist Advent, if they so wished. Therefore, the combined Advent fleets could be comprised of, at least, 954-966 ships. As there are no other hints to explain what objective standing army the Advent have, the logical implications of game-play point to this.

    I’d stand by claiming that half of a unified Advent empire outnumber the remaining Covenant fleet, and would likely even outnumber/outclass them when they had High Charity and the dreadnought.

  21. Around999People August 24, 2015 at 6:22 pm -      #21

    The advent have their titans too. Super ships that make their capital class ships look pathetic by comparison.

    ~~
    Their titans are powerful. As mentioned before, one of their titans can mind control an entire planet. It can also take control of enemy ships by taking over their minds. Like, it was talked about here, but, can the covenant win if their own ships suddenly turn against them?

    ~~

    They were cast out into ‘unknown space’ and then returned after they have stripped the ‘unknown’ parts of the galaxy of the needed resources. ” Having exhausted the rare resources they require to live their unique lifestyle, the highest authority of the Advent imposed its will upon the Unity to return to known human space” (wikipedia ;~; )

    ~~

    My question is, can the advent’s abilities affect covenant ships? Like, one of their powers is to slow down ships, or to outright push them away to force the enemy to break formation. Would these work on covenant ships the same way it does in sins?

  22. Ishamael August 24, 2015 at 6:35 pm -      #22

    I’d argue, yes. Using shields as an example, one of the downfalls of the Covenant shielding is that they are quite susceptible to energy weapons, which deplete their shields quite effectively. Advent tech is centered around beam, laser, plasma, and energy-based attacks.

    The wiki also states that Covenant ships will have shipboard energy shields disabled, through use of EMPs. The difference between Vasari and Advent are that Vasari EMPs are mechanic, whereas Advent EMPs are psionic.

    In terms of engines, it isn’t an attempt to manipulate Covenant engines (outside of the disabling of them, via use of the plethora of disabling skills Advent ships have), but the Advent are manipulating the intensity of gravity wells to hamper ships from FTL jumping. With their inhibitor, think of it as forcing a Covenant ship to ride a bike. However, you have control over the gears, and you switch the bike to a much higher gear.

    When you try to pedal away, from still, on such a high gear, you can’t really get it going. Furthermore, even if you were doing it (and slowly) you are being hampered by people beside you trying to push you down. Obviously, you’d abandon escape and continue fighting.

    Mind-control is another situation altogether.

  23. Ishamael August 24, 2015 at 6:51 pm -      #23

    I’d like to correct an error about the Inhibitor. It actually lengthens the charge-up time for the jump. This means that it doesn’t have anything to do with planetary gravity wells, but affects a ship’s engines directly.

    This is better, because Covenant ships use repulsor engines, which are, incidentally, how they generate their anti-grav tech.

    I still think the inhibitor would affect them, as FTL jumping seems to take quite a build-up of energy (from both halo videos and from Sins in-game clips). This would just slow that process, in the same way as I stated in my last post. Sorry for double posting, just wanted to be clear.

  24. Ninja Lowk August 24, 2015 at 7:52 pm -      #24

    “I still think the inhibitor would affect them, as FTL jumping seems to take quite a build-up of energy (from both halo videos and from Sins in-game clips). This would just slow that process, in the same way as I stated in my last post. Sorry for double posting, just wanted to be clear.”

    Last I heard FTL in halo was done by hopping into another dimension. They don’t accelerate to FTL in realspace.
    I think gravity only effect the accuracy of the jump rather then slowing or stopping it.

  25. lethal_gecko August 24, 2015 at 8:08 pm -      #25

    There’s also the fleet of High Charity which has a lot of Super Carriers although I don’t remember the exact number.
    [#]
    Any engagement where the Covenant uses the Forerunner Dreadnought, they will win. Although this would mean that they can’t use High Charity, so they would use it as a trump card if they can’t win otherwise.
    It’s powerful enough to power a space station bigger than the Death Star 2 at 10% power and took no damage from 4 MAC shots with no shields up.

  26. Ishamael August 24, 2015 at 8:57 pm -      #26

    @ Ninja;
    Phase space is comparable to Halo’s slipstream space. While slipstream is “the collective term for the eleven non-visible infinitesimal dimensions used for FTL travel”, phase space is simply described as “the region of space in which ships travel through when traversing gaps between planets and stars”.

    While it’s fairly vague, there are ship abilities that allow the ship to enter “phase space” rendering them invulnerable and unaffected by abilities or armature in regular space. This sounds an awful lot like dimension-slipping to me.

    That being said, both Advent and Covenant access these forms of space using machinery(drives) which enable them to enter it. The phase jump inhibitor inhibits the machinery that allows ships to create these slips in space. (No gravity used at all, which is why I corrected my post)


    @ lethal_gecko;
    Others before me have stated that this was post-High Charity. Meaning that all the Covenant have left are the Unyielding Hierophant and the 500+ ships that it can carry.

    If you wish to bring in the Forerunner Dreadnought, I started my comparison between the Advent and Covenant, by comparing the dread to the Advent Titans. After a lot of research — and close to 15 pages of recorded research — it became apparent to me that the Covenant’s possession of the dread is nothing the Titans couldn’t handle. Furthermore (and this is important), there is only ONE — non-reproducible — Dread, and each sect of Advent can produce (and later reproduce, if destroyed) a titan.

    I.E. I have an extensive comparison, but I feel I could only write and post it elsewhere, and link it to a post here, lest you get hit with a wall of text.

  27. zeretulee August 25, 2015 at 3:45 am -      #27

    “Plasma turrets fire magnetically shielded bolts of plasma. While this does substantial damage to material/steel armature, it is not the most effective armature against shields.”

    what kind of shields?
    plasma is ionised gas meaning that it does exceptionally well against ion shields and magic shields where as it is crap against graviton shields, psychic shields, force fields and magnetic deflectors.

  28. Ishamael August 25, 2015 at 9:24 am -      #28

    Looking up the types of shields in Sins, they never use any terminology which even directly implies their nature.

    Here’s what we do know:
    The Advent’s shields have higher sophistication, allowing them the ability to highly mitigate damage to shields. This allows them to take much more punishment, than traditional shields. It’s important to remember that the TEC and Vasari each have projectile, plasma, and energy-based armature, and Advent shields are still almost impregnable to their efforts.

    Also, Advent PsiTech is used to bolster weapons, shields, and abilities. This grants each a psionic trait, as well. Not only their regular shields, but they can also create secondary shields, with alternate effects, using these psionics.
    (E.g. Using their own repulsor technology to slow and hinder ships –
    So, the fact that the Advent can mitigate shield damage, by aligning its polarity to the attack makes them ion shields, and the psiTech added to grant the shields psychic traits make them psionic. So…"Psi" and "Ion" elements are both present.

  29. lethal_gecko August 25, 2015 at 10:03 am -      #29

    If it’s post High Charity then the Dreadnought is their main asset along with the Hierophant.
    [#]
    To put into perspective, another Forerunner ship the Mantle’s Approach is made from the same unknown alloy as the Dreadnought. TMA tanked ALL of post war Earths defenses and it was even stated that everything they had was ineffective and the Didact’s ship wasn’t even shielded, we know this because the hits it took connected with the hull not a shield before it.
    Orbital Defense Platforms can one hit Covenant Capital ships with their SMACs and I believe there was a minimum of 7 of these, the Infinity and the Earth Home Fleet attacking it simultaneously.

    [#]

    From what I’ve read, a titan is far easier to destroy than a standard Forerunner ship. Forerunner can sit inside slipspace and shoot out of it and when in real space, divert attacks via gravity manipulation so they can’t even be hit. Then there’s the indomitable shields and then the armor that, as previously stated, shrugged off an ENTIRE planet’s defenses without shields up until the UNSC Infinity got in range and blew a tiny hole in it with energy projectors which quickly repaired itself.
    Also the structure of the dreadnought makes it physically hard to hit with the only critical areas being the dead center and engines. The speed of the Dreadnought is far beyond that of most other ships as well.
    So as far as I’m concerned, they can’t stop the Dreadnought unless they pull a Master Chief and take a HAVOK nuke to its core.

  30. Belisaurius August 25, 2015 at 10:41 am -      #30

    As powerful as the forerunner dreadnaught is, it’s ultimately only one ship while the Advent can build more titans as needed. It does nothing to prevent the Advent from stealing Covenant planets and ships wholesale. In addition to stealing these vital resources, the Advent will be capturing officers and technicians alive. They can simply ask the former covenant officers where their world and fleets are.

    As fast as the Dreadnought can destroy Advent fleets and worlds the Advent can capture new ones from the Covenants. Eventually, the Forerunner Dreadnought will be worn down by continued fights with Advent Titans and capital ships. Eventually, the Prophets themselves might order the ancient ship to stand down, overpowered by the Advent’s psitech attacks.

  31. zeretulee August 25, 2015 at 10:47 am -      #31

    “So…”Psi” and “Ion” elements are both present”
    I see. so it is psyonicaly enhanced ion shields along with pure psyonic shields. that would mean that the only way to get them down quickly is to use some absurdly powerful weapons or some kind of psyonic feedback device. to my memory, halo has no psychicism or psyonics so there is no counter to this. and factoring in the fact that advent out range covenant and can mind control like fuck. have fun without kig yar and unggoy

  32. lethal_gecko August 25, 2015 at 4:20 pm -      #32

    The technicians are the Engineers and they are animals that fix what they see if it’s broken and nothing more. If the Covenant Officers are Sangheili then they’ll commit suicide rather than get captured.
    [#]
    Halo does have psychic stuff, the Precursor star roads are solid neuroscience.

  33. Ishamael August 25, 2015 at 6:11 pm -      #33

    @lethalgecko;
    Unfortunately, the Dread is a bit out-classed here. As a keyship, it has many perks, but it ultimately remains a ship purposed to “reseed” planets. Such a ship might be high in defense and generate massive amounts of power energy, but it is not a Forerunner combat variant.

    Titans out-range, out-shoot, and out-perform Dread, in a pinch. Eradica’s Unyielding Will will even win out against Dread, in a war of atrition.

    Also, because nothing fully known of the Dread, the Covenant had used it as a –power generator– for High Charity. It’s obvious, if the Covenant knew about its abilkties, they’d have been using it much more often. Since they don’t know much about it, I can’t even agree with you on the fact that it can fully be brought to bear against the Advent in this battle, let alone whether or not it would still be enough against the Titans, which are close to 10 km larger than it.

    As the Advent out-range it, they only need to move out of its threat range to draw it out of slip-space. Once the Dread leaves slip-space, Advent Titans win. Not only would they know well in advance where it is heading/where it is coming from, but the Advent ships and tech have too much diversity. The moment it enters real-space, it will be passively suppressed by ship abilities, even subjugated by the Domina Subjugator and rendered immobile, incapable of attack, and incapable of special abilities or tech. This is true, not just for dread, but the entird Covenant fleet along with it. The abilities are AoE. It’s just outclassed here. That’s the only way to describe it.

    There’s a reason why the Advent are so broken in-game.

  34. itcheyness August 25, 2015 at 8:50 pm -      #34

    The High Charity defense fleet was largely destroyed by the fighting between the Brutes and Elites at the end of Halo 2, so if it still exists, it’s in a much diminished state.

    The Unyielding Hierophant was destroyed before the events of Halo 2, so it would not be involved in this battle either.

    There’s a simple way around these restrictions though, Inarto just has to come in and say that the Covenant is at its height and they get whatever they lost through the course of the series back.

  35. Ishamael August 25, 2015 at 9:32 pm -      #35

    Seeing as the wiki states that the “Fate of the keyship is unknown” and that it was “likely destroyed by the halo”, even “damaged beyond use, by the attack and the slipspace transition”, if Inarto was to bring Covenant to their height, then it might make a fairer battle.

    That being said, it doesn’t change the fact that High Charity would pose a bigger threat than the Dread, and we haven’t even begun to talk about the Advent Transcencia Star Base.

  36. zeretulee August 26, 2015 at 4:35 am -      #36

    is it just me or do all these newcomers (factions) seem to be really powerful?

    so far Legend of the Galactic Heroes,
    Honorverse and Sins of a Solar Empire seem to be pitted against faction/universes whom are similar in culture but not in technological advancement.

    put these guys up to a real test.

    why not have them go up against star craft or something instead of things that just can’t defend themselves.

    the covenant have had their asses kicked a few times now. let the Protoss have a go.

  37. lethal_gecko August 26, 2015 at 5:11 am -      #37

    The Dreadnought is a war ship repossessed as a seed ship, though you’re right that they know very little about it.

    [#]

    EMPs and other disruption effects to my memory, have no effect on a Forerunner ship. As I said before, Forerunner tech does not run on electricity and it will have other defenses in place as well. While the disruption may effect lesser tech it will not stop Forerunners, their tech is almost arcane so by comparison, the primitive tech of the Advent will be useless. After all, they use hard light, physical light in place of electricity. Only gravity manipulation will work here and they use it themselves so they can’t even be hit.

    [#]

    Also that’s not how slipspace works, it’s an abstract dimension to my knowledge and the Forerunners were masters of it. If the Covenant can use it to its full potential, then there’s nowhere where the Advent can go where the Dreadnought can’t follow, it would arrive before the Advent left in reality.
    I’ve yet to see anything that the Dreadnought can’t handle, after all, the San’Shyuum used just the Dreadnought to subjugate their enemies and ALL of the space battles against the Sangheili were won because of it.

    [#]

    Because the Covenant are ignorant of it’s full capacities, the Advent may win. They won’t destroy it but they can beat everything else. If the Covenant pull their fingers out and get it to 100% power then it will be a hilarious stomp.

  38. lethal_gecko August 26, 2015 at 5:19 am -      #38

    Also, it is unknown if it has adaptive armor, if so then it’s almost unbeatable. The Mantle’s Approach most probably did.

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