Godzilla Vs Kain

Godzilla Vs Kain

Suggested by Jake_Uzumaki

Godzilla will go up against Kain.

Composite Godzilla from the Godzilla franchise vs Kain’s current incarnation from the Legacy of Kain Franchise. Battle takes place on an island in an evacuated Tokyo.

Who will win?

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805 Comments on "Godzilla Vs Kain"

  1. Soulerous August 26, 2015 at 8:28 am -      #701

    Looking at it again the whole tower is bright red before and after he hits it. So the colour is irrelevant unless you want to argue he cannot melt paint or something.
    -That tower, just like the identical one you see in the background, was a normal steel color. It became red after Godzilla attacked it; it was not red before. Most of it isn’t red in the first half of the gif, but silvery with a slight orange tinge. You should look again.
    ~
    If it comes to it, I will use a color picker to display the hexadecimal codes of the two colors and the difference between them. But it would be easier for you to just pause the gif.
    ~
    Well it looks moving to me.
    -I cannot see any motion. The colors change from light to dark and back again in a very unrealistic way, but nothing splashes or bubbles. All I see is the product of limited animation.
    ~
    You can stand right next to certain lava flows because their a certain type
    -These are pahoehoe flows:
    www.britannica.com/science/pahoehoe
    news.science360.gov/obj/pic-day/20121023/
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava#/media/File:PahoehoeLava.jpg
    ~
    This is not. It does not have a smooth, billowy, or ropey surface. It is not covered in an insulating skin. Half or more than half of it’s surface is exposed and brightly glowing. It is most likely an a’a lava flow.
    ~
    But like I said this is an actual pool. Not just a lava flow that seems to have travelled X distance.
    -It is the temperature and how much heat is reaching Kain that matters. That is the significance of what I showed; being near lava is not automatically an amazing feat. Kain has a path significantly wider than himself to walk on, and though there are cracked areas that display underlying lava, these areas can be crossed in one or two bounds when they are encountered.
    This means he may have been shielded from much of the heat. The bottom line is he never explicitly shrugged off temperatures equal to Godzilla’s atomic breath. Nor do I think that’s what was intended.
    ~
    Only with the highball for the heat
    -It is not a highball. We have the color chart, and the tower was not painted red.
    ~
    if its only 500 C then Kain should be fine.
    -Not even then. Kain was never subjected to that heat. No concrete number can be derived from Kain running over a black stone path surrounded by lava and with cracks in some places.
    ~
    On the reverse, he can stand very near without being burned at all.
    -Which is gameplay, not something he actually did in canon. We should also note that the terrain as it appears during normal play is not a perfect canon representation of Dark Eden. It is quite different from the look we get of it in this cut scene. This considered, using the terrain to gauge how exposed Kain would be is actually a faulty method.

  2. zeretulee August 26, 2015 at 9:36 am -      #702

    @Sauroposeidon

    if this is composite godzilla then surly he would be able to utilize these varying breaths.

    in which case kitten lord is right to have brought them up.

    also: nuclear (or atomic in some cases) radiation refers to gamma rays, helium nuclei and electrons.
    atomic breath fires all of these.
    he can use radiation to fly because electrons, neutrons an protons have mass and can Exhibit force.
    a way to explain the differing breath could be that he is simply using different types of radiation.

  3. Kitten Lord August 26, 2015 at 3:04 pm -      #703

    @Sauro

    “it’s not my fucking fault,”

    Then do not bring it up then if your not going to explain yourself. Wasting time in here! “sigh”

    @Soul

    “But it would be easier for you to just pause the gif.”

    How do you pause it? Every time I click it, a “sign in” screen comes up. At no point in that gif do i see the pylon he attacks being anything other than red. Even the area he is not attacking and that does not go soft and collapse.

    “he colors change from light to dark and back again i”

    “All I see is the product of limited animation.”

    Exactly. As it roils and splashes the darker parts of the lava are overlapping the brighter parts. Like you say its not advanced but understandable enough.

    ” It is most likely an a’a lava flow.”

    volcano.oregonstate.edu/book/export/html/131

    Its hard to say, but according to this a’a are cooler than Pahoehoe so I cannot find a consistency in which is which. But what Kain walks near is not just a “lava flow”, it has neither a skin or much of anything in it. Its just a pool of hot orange lava.

    ” these areas can be crossed in one or two bounds when they are encountered.”

    Thing is they are throughout the region. Its not like its only one path.

    “It is not a highball. We have the color chart, and the tower was not painted red.”

    How do you know it was not painted red? The whole thing was red, even the part that was not melting. If it was all that temperature then the whole thing, not the top should have wilted.

    ” No concrete number can be derived from Kain running over a black stone path surrounded by lava and with cracks in some places.”

    Can you prove this or are you just not capable of calcluating it? Because if someone is spending minutes if not hours walking close to an actual pool of lava without a suit and not even being set ablaze that is impressive. Its like being cooked in an oven and not burning. Granted it would be better if he walked through it without harm but “shrug”

    The Godzilla feat is just as hard to gauge.

    “Which is gameplay, not something he actually did in canon”

    Of course it is canon, he has to get to this tower somehow. And those are the only ways through.

    “This considered, using the terrain to gauge how exposed Kain would be is actually a faulty ”

    Explain?

    @Zere

    “a way to explain the differing breath could be that he is simply using different types of radiation”

    Sounds reasonable. So what sort would be hot, what would be like physical force? You say electrons, neutrons and protons have mass but not a great amount of it.

  4. Friendlysociopath August 26, 2015 at 3:13 pm -      #704

    if this is composite godzilla then surly he would be able to utilize these varying breaths.

    Godzilla is said to be able to alter his breath only because it changes how it works throughout the series to reflect the special effects-
    In the beginning for example- they literally threw baby powder
    then they moved to fire extinguishers
    and later they progressed to actual CGI
    It is the same breath; he does not have a heat breath, and a propulsion breath, and an atomic breath; he has Atomic Breath- how it is portrayed may vary but that is the only attack he has of the sort.
    So we simply take the best of both/all the worlds:
    Hottest breath
    Greatest amount of radiation
    Fastest speed
    Best range
    Greatest force
    etc.
    and apply them all to be Composite Godzilla’s Atomic Breath.

  5. Rookie August 26, 2015 at 3:37 pm -      #705

    In “Godzilla in hell” it was revealed that one of versions of Ghidorah is Satan himself. Godzilla is currently fighting against this beast.
    Don’t know if this can help.

  6. Monochrome August 26, 2015 at 3:55 pm -      #706

    Just read that comic actually….It’s art differed alot from the first one buy hey more Godzilla in Hell is always good for me. Can’t wait for when he wrecks Satan’s shit. Because we all know it’s gonna happen…Hmm I wonder if this is a homage to the abandoned Godzilla vs Satan project

  7. Kitten Lord August 26, 2015 at 5:14 pm -      #707

    @Friendly

    “So we simply take the best of both/all the worlds:”

    It would not make sense to take an old versions showing when its been retconned by newer versions. Especially if what your saying about special effects is true. That would make his “types” of breath a outside of universe reason, based on the limitations of the creators. Not an in-lore/canon version of the breath.

    If we say its canon then it appears to be different kinds of breath that do different things. if its just because special effects have evolved then the later ones have lost the “heat” and created more explosives and force.

    @Rookie

    “Godzilla is currently fighting against this beast.”


    Maybe if he gets some good feats.

  8. Friendlysociopath August 26, 2015 at 5:31 pm -      #708

    Not an in-lore/canon version of the breath.

    That IS the in-lore/canon explanation, he can change how he uses his Atomic Breath- but it is nonetheless the same ability.

  9. Soulerous August 26, 2015 at 9:29 pm -      #709

    It would not make sense to take an old versions showing when its been retconned by newer versions.
    -Yes, it does make sense. That is exactly the whole point of a composite character. You take all the feats they’ve ever had and roll them into one.
    ~
    At no point in that gif do i see the pylon he attacks being anything other than red. Even the area he is not attacking and that does not go soft and collapse.
    -I think this proves my point: imgur.com/NtTMwnP
    ~
    Exactly. As it roils and splashes the darker parts of the lava are overlapping the brighter parts.
    -This is one of those times where I remind you that a possible interpretation remains unusable as a feat. I think it’s just a glow effect. Whichever one of us is right, I’m not violating occam’s razor, as there aren’t any visible splashes or… roils.
    ~
    However, I will also remind you that lava can erupt at 1202° F. This is still a lower temperature than Godzilla subjected the tower to. And Kain still could not touch the lava.
    ~
    according to this a’a are cooler than Pahoehoe so I cannot find a consistency in which is which. But what Kain walks near is not just a “lava flow”, it has neither a skin or much of anything in it
    -Pahoehoe are slightly hotter but have the insulating layer that traps a large amount of the heat. A’a flows have more escaping heat, which is why your other source said they are terrible to work near. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about a lava flow or not, just the heat does. The lava in Dark Eden has many dark pieces in it, which means the surface of the lakes are cool enough to allow their forming. Exactly like an a’a flow or the picture I linked.
    ~
    Can you prove this or are you just not capable of calcluating it?
    -It isn’t something I would need to prove. A calculation would need to take into account temperature, radiation, plane of exposure, and Kain’s armor. It is the latter two things that are problematic. A human could traverse the same area were those variables favorable.
    ~
    The Godzilla feat is just as hard to gauge.
    -No, the Godzilla feat is much easier to gauge because unlike the lava, the atomic breath directly touches it’s target and turns it a color that is known to correspond to a temperature for steel. And causes it to collapse, of course. There is no stone or armor to mitigate the effects. It’s very straightforward and without additional variables.
    ~
    Of course it is canon, he has to get to this tower somehow. And those are the only ways through.
    -When you said Kain could stand very near, I assumed you meant the player can walk him right up to the edge of the lava. That’s what I’m calling game mechanics.
    ~
    Explain?
    -It’s pretty self-explanatory. The area seen in gameplay is very different from the same area in the cutscene, which has much, much less lava. Cut scenes are a higher statement of canon. I can therefore question that Kain was exposed to as much lava in the narrative as he was in the gameplay.

  10. Kitten Lord August 27, 2015 at 5:06 am -      #710

    @Friendly

    “That IS the in-lore/canon explanation, he can change how he uses his Atomic Breath- but it is nonetheless the same ability.”

    If your saying he has different uses of the breath in this composite form then that is fine. i thought you were arguing that any breath attack he has would have the facets of all the different breaths.

    @Soul

    ” That is exactly the whole point of a composite character”

    No a composite character by defintion that has all the abilities, whether they be strengths or weaknesses of all Godzillas. But if the only reason he had a heat ray to begin with was because of restraints on the special effects and they then show later that it is not actually a heat ray at all then that says canonically there was no heat ray.

    Composite godzilla cannot be made up of things that never existed in the canon.

    “-I think this proves my point”

    I think you have just paused when the breath was over the pylon. The breath being a lighter colour than the bright red pylon which created an overlay.

    “This is one of those times where I remind you that a possible interpretation remains unusable as a feat.”

    Ok so you cannot use the heat ray then. Because it is my interpretation that the whole Pylon seems red. Another possibility is that it is painted red, and even if the colours do change, this makes sense because the colours would fade if you heat up a painted surface.

    This would also explain why the lower points of the pylon, you know the points that are holding up the weight of the rest of the thing are not even sagging.

    “Exactly like an a’a flow or the picture I linked.”

    Which is why the picture is useless because this is not a flow. It is the actual pool itself. More alike to the video I posted, poor animation aside.

    ” correspond to a temperature for steel”

    Your still assuming it is steel. It could be aluminium. Let us see the same chart for alluminium.

    “There is no stone or armor to mitigate the effects. It’s very straightforward and without additional variables.”

    Oh there are a ton of variables. Was the Pyrlon painted, why did it not sag at the bottom if it did at the top? what metal is it really beyond just assuming it is steel? Does Godzilla even have a heat ray anymore or was it just an outlier special effect?

    “When you said Kain could stand very near, I assumed you meant the player can walk him right up to the edge of the lava”

    No I meant regardless of what the player does, Kain woudl have to traverse this land, and a large number of those “crossings” are thin, intercrossed with lava flowing barely between the stepping stones he walks on and only feet away from the pools themselves.

    For an extended period, not just a few seconds.

    “he area seen in gameplay is very different from the same area in the cutscene”

    Well of course it would seem that way. In the game we are playing as Kain, and we see it from his perspective while on the ground. The cutscene is high above. High enough so we can still see the main pools but not low enough so we can see the streams.

    I am sure you noticed we were too high above the land to see a single living thing on that plane? despite knowing it is interweaved with mutants and monsters.

    ” I can therefore question that Kain was exposed to as much lava in the narrative as he was in the gameplay.”

    It does not change the world Kain had to travel through. The cutscene and that region have one thing in common which is their both static and uncontrollable by the player. The lava pools, the platforms etc that Kain has to walk on are all hand crafted by the devs.

    Obviously being higher up would mean less is visible.

  11. Soulerous August 28, 2015 at 1:58 am -      #711

    Composite godzilla cannot be made up of things that never existed in the canon.
    -What are you saying never existed in the canon?
    ~
    The breath being a lighter colour than the bright red pylon which created an overlay.
    -You’re right. It was made worse due to being a video of a TV screen, though, which distorted the color.
    ~
    imgur.com/lQ13kiT
    ~
    The tower was not painted red. Godzilla heated it to an orange-red of about 1600° F, going by this more comprehensive chart.
    ~
    what metal is it really beyond just assuming it is steel?
    -Do you remember our argument about what the brass blocks of the Silenced Cathedral were made of? How you said we should assume, that we in fact knew they were copper? I provided alternative possibilities, like wood and stone. You maintained the blocks were copper and refused to admit fault in that assumption, even after Amm0 gave a quote for brass. I criticized your assumption because wood and stone can also be found in the pinkish hue of the blocks, and is suitable for piping. The biggest issue, however, was that such blocks are not of a standardized construction.
    ~
    In this case, transmission towers are standardized. They are only made of steel and aluminum when metal. Aluminum is shiny silver when it melts and when liquid; I showed you this. It only glows red/orange-hot when at temperatures significantly beyond it’s full melting point. Aluminum is completely ruled out. That leaves only steel.
    ~
    Transmission towers can be constructed from steel, concrete, aluminum, wood and reinforced plastic.
    –International Finance Corporation.
    ~
    Why do you think it’s fair to question that the towers are steel when you thought it was fair to assume the blocks were made of copper?
    ~
    It does not change the world Kain had to travel through.
    -It means the world he traveled through is actually different than what we thought.
    ~
    Obviously being higher up would mean less is visible.
    -Lack of perspective is not an issue here. Dark Eden looks different between the two showings because what they share is different, not because I can’t see well.
    ~
    This is Dark Eden in the game.
    This is the same area in the cutscene.
    ~
    The lava pools surrounding the central pool and castle are relatively smaller than in the game; the two rivers flowing into and toward the center are missing altogether. The two views are now in conflict. Each says something different. I have factual cause to say the terrain of the world in regular gameplay is not an accurate representation of how the world is in canon. This makes suspect the entire process of looking to it for a heat-resistance feat.

  12. Mea quidem sententia August 28, 2015 at 10:36 am -      #712

    Is the argument that Kain can withstand the atomic breath? If all the atomic breath does is vaporize the water content of a human, then a human body of 78 kg. being made up of 70% of water would be 54.6 kg. The amount of energy required to vaporize the water would be 2.79 * 10^9 joules. Seeing that it vaporized more than one human at once, though, it could be higher than that.

  13. Soulerous August 29, 2015 at 12:36 am -      #713

    Is the argument that Kain can withstand the atomic breath?
    -Basically, yeah. He obviously can’t, what with having no good heat-resistance feats. So that calculation (2.79 gigajoules?) is just accounting for the water and not the flesh, correct?

  14. Kitten Lord August 29, 2015 at 4:15 am -      #714

    @Soul

    “How you said we should assume, that we in fact knew they were copper?”


    This is only because I had forgotten about Brass. Which is a copper composite. So I was in some respect correct, it is copper, alloy…..

    “. Aluminum is shiny silver when it melts and when liquid”

    Where did you post this? Ill check it again. If you can prove it cannot be aluminium then that makes steel likely.

    “Why do you think it’s fair to question that the towers are steel when you thought it was fair to assume the blocks were made of copper?”

    Because there are more factors we can divulge from the scene concerning Raziel. We have sound, so we know it is not wood, we have the colour, which is unique to those kinds of metals. Most metals are silver. We have the fact it is centuries old, only so many materials can not weather over time and then we had the fact it was an instrument. There are a lot of variables that cover my reasoning.

    In this case, you have 5 different types of materials it could be made from and literally all you have to argue it, is colors. Based on the new video we know it was at least silvery before he struck it, but it also cooled instantly afterwards, only the top was also melted, and it was in contact with the base. So the metal cannot be at the melting point of the metal otherwise the base should also melt.

    “-Lack of perspective is not an issue here”

    Well clearly it is. From ground level, kains perspective we see lava pools, streams and we know for a fact there are mutatns. But in the cutscene, we are high enough so we cannot see any of those things, but we can still see the larger pools.

    “I have factual cause to say the terrain of the world in regular gameplay is not an accurate representation of how the world is in canon.”

    No not really. The environment in-game is just as static and developer created as that in the cutscene. The only difference being perspective. We know your view is not likely because we cannot see any living creature travelling there either. yet we know from Kains statements the region is criss crossed with mutants, mutated creatures and what not.

    @Mea

    Can you calculate how much resistance to heat you would need to potentially spend an hour in an oven emitting hundreds if not thousands of C?

    Without burning!

  15. Numinous One August 29, 2015 at 5:23 am -      #715

    “In this case, you have 5 different types of materials it could be made from and literally all you have to argue it, is colors”

    Which materials? I’ve barely been paying attention, but I’ll try and narrow it down if I can.

  16. Soulerous August 29, 2015 at 6:12 am -      #716

    So I was in some respect correct, it is copper, alloy.
    -Which doesn’t lessen the fact that you made an assumption that inflated the weight of the blocks.
    ~
    Where did you post this?
    -#684
    ~
    There are a lot of variables that cover my reasoning.
    -No there aren’t. None of them rule out stone, and none of them ruled out brass either, yet you assumed copper and a greater weight with it.
    ~
    In this case, you have 5 different types of materials it could be made from and literally all you have to argue it, is colors.
    -The strength of the factors is what matters, not the number of them.
    ~
    I have color, shape, and behavior. It was a silvery material that softened and turned red-orange when it melted and that was used to build a transmission tower. It can only be steel. And yet you defend your argument when there are perfectly valid possibilities aside from copper. That seems extremely biased.
    ~
    it also cooled instantly afterwards,
    -Yeah, and the collapsed section was missing from the scene altogether. Their model work wasn’t perfect.
    ~
    only the top was also melted, and it was in contact with the base. So the metal cannot be at the melting point of the metal otherwise the base should also melt.
    -Excuse me? Heat does not immediately saturate all other parts of an object when one part is heated. That’s not how conduction works. Have you never seen something like this? Did you know you can melt one end of something without the other end melting?
    ~
    Well clearly it is.
    -Well, no, clearly it isn’t. At all. I’m not talking about the mutants. I never mentioned them, and your reason for bringing them up escapes me. Whether or not I can see creatures is irrelevant to my point: The lava pools are smaller and differently-shaped, and the two lava rivers/canals are missing. The two depictions differ.
    ~
    The environment in-game is just as static and developer created as that in the cutscene.
    -Are you arguing that cutscenes are not a higher canon than the map design? I disagree, but it doesn’t matter. Unless you can explicitly prove that this is how Dark Eden looks in canon, we’re done with this.
    ~
    Can you calculate how much resistance to heat you would need to potentially spend an hour in an oven emitting hundreds if not thousands of C?
    -Do you have a source for thousands of C, or do you say that erroneously? I mean, I’m pretty sure you don’t have a source.
    ~
    @Numinous One- Comment #711. Not a bad idea to read the whole post.

  17. Numinous One August 29, 2015 at 6:32 am -      #717

    Ah, yeah out of those five steel is the only one that would match up.
    Aluminium having that sort of heat applied would liquify pretty quick, so it should drop straight down and not sag like that, nor does the colour match.
    Not to mention applying pressure while heating it tends to blow parts of it away.
    Wood doesn’t even need a comment.
    Concrete tends to pop and explode when heat is applied, nor does it bend like that.
    Reinforced plastic, the visuals we have don’t match up with what would happen to plastic in that situation. I’m assuming we all know what plastic looks like when melting.
    This leaves only steel.

    As for it cooling quickly, steel does cool relatively quickly.
    I believe I mentioned earlier that the moisture in the air helps to quench it.
    That cherry red glow doesn’t long after the heat is removed either.

  18. Mea quidem sententia August 29, 2015 at 11:23 am -      #718

    @Soulerous
    That’d be correct. Adding bone and tissues results in 2.99 GJ.

    @Kitten Lord
    I’m not sure what you’re asking.

  19. Kitten Lord August 29, 2015 at 2:38 pm -      #719

    @Soul

    “Which doesn’t lessen the fact that you made an assumption that inflated the weight of the blocks.”

    Soulerous, the weight of the blocks hardly changed just because it was not made of 100% copper….

    My assumption was at least based on a number of factors. Your assumption is based on a single one, which is colour. A colour which is simliar in a lot of “melting” objects and materials period.

    ” That seems extremely biased.”

    Problem was there was nothing but your insistence that the thins you came up with were valid possibilities. You have yet to bring up a valid reason why the Pylon could not be made of most of the materials.

    ” Their model work wasn’t perfect.”

    Very little to do with their graphics was not perfect. How can you depend on the parts that support your argument that Godzillas breath is hot? Your arguing it cannot be X material because in reality it does not look like those materials yet you admit their model work is not that great so how can you depend on it at all?

    ” Heat does not immediately saturate all other parts of an object ”

    You say that but the pylon appeared red-orange throughout. Even the parts at the end that were not melted at all. This suggests that the temperature was not enough to melt all the structure and the colours may be irrelevant.

    “I’m not talking about the mutants. I never mentioned them, ”

    I did not say you did. I brought them up because their not in that scene, even though if we were close enough to the scene, e.g. Kains level we should see them.

    “Unless you can explicitly prove that this is how Dark Eden looks in canon, we’re done with this.”

    Well were done with it because I have proven it from the video that shows Kain travelling around it.

    “Do you have a source for thousands of C, or do you say that erroneously?”

    volcano.oregonstate.edu/how-hot-lava

    I said between hundreds and thousands. Lava is not cooler than 700 C, and goes up to 1000. Considering we have an actual organe pool with no skin layer or anything to protect Kain it is pretty impressive. Hes essentially in a massive oven for potentially hours.

    @Numin

    As Soul mentioned their modelling work and general special effects is modest to say the least. Which is true. So talking about how X would work this way and that may be irrelevent. The supporting bottom of the pylon is red and does not tremble, the pylon cools literally instantly in the next scene..

    tons of illogical nonsense there unless you can show me steel going from red hot to instantly in seconds? I have never heard of it.

    Based purely on colour why can it not be Wood, concrete or plastic? Fair enough maybe it is not aluminium if that stays silver but the others?

  20. Mea quidem sententia August 29, 2015 at 3:17 pm -      #720

    @Lava can be as cool as 650°C.

    “Felsic lava normally erupts between 650°C to 750°C.”

    www.universetoday.com/77079/how-hot-is-lava/

    Considering the color of the lava is a dark red, that would support that temperature range. Anyway, convection is different from conduction. Open an oven and a heat wave will come at you. Did you die? No? Good. Did it feel painful? No. How about you touch the oven? There’s a blister.

  21. Kitten Lord August 29, 2015 at 3:30 pm -      #721

    No but an oven is not usually 650 C, I have never had an oven that high. And the heat is not coming from all around me, or a few feet away from me.

    I am also a living being, Kain is a dead one.

  22. Numinous One August 29, 2015 at 5:25 pm -      #722

    “The supporting bottom of the pylon is red and does not tremble, the pylon cools literally instantly in the next scene..”

    Because the bottom wasn’t being directly affected by the breath, it went red from the heat traveling down from the affected area. While they were the same colour that doesn’t mean they were the same temperature.
    The part being directly affected will remain hot, the bottom part is a struggle between more heat traveling down the steel and the air trying to quench it.

    “tons of illogical nonsense there unless you can show me steel going from red hot to instantly in seconds? I have never heard of it.”

    Do you have the full scene for the timeframe?
    Personally speaking and work related, I’ve had to bend something like 300 20mm steel bars tonfight a design.
    To do this you’ve gotta heat it up, right?
    Now just because the steel has gone red, doesn’t mean you’ll be capable of bending it, you’ve probably only just heated the surface.
    Which is why I mentioned earlier you need either realllllyyy hot flames or prolonged exposure to ensure the core has been adequately heated.
    Anyway back on topic, those bars were cooling in seconds after I’d heated them, making them incredibly difficult to bend.
    For the record I had like 1m of 30mm pipe over the steel to provide better leverage and bend easier.
    It was still near impossible to bend smoothly after you take the heat off. Ideally you want to keep the heat on while bending.
    Steel literally does cool in seconds after the heat is removed, that’s the effect of the air. You’ll still burn yourself touching it, but that discolouration will be gone.

    “Based purely on colour why can it not be Wood, concrete or plastic? Fair enough maybe it is not aluminium if that stays silver but the others?”

    Why base it purely on colour when you have visual effects as well? The colour is really just confirmation. The budget may have been lacking, but that doesn’t invalidate what happened on screen.

    Wood would smoke, splinter and snap. That doesn’t happen.
    Concrete would literally explode. I hate it. It’s shit to work near. Fuck concrete and the people who lay it down.
    Not as familiar with plastic, however I have done some polywelding, and I have never seen plastic change colour when you melt it.
    It just goops and stinks.

  23. Mea quidem sententia August 29, 2015 at 11:18 pm -      #723

    @Kitten Lord
    It looks like a human can survive 60°C for 10 minutes in extremely humid heat before suffering hyperthermia.

    www.livescience.com/34128-limits-human-survival.html

    I’m not sure how humid lava would make a location, but what I do know is that the lava is replaced with rock when the person Kain mind controls pulls a lever.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FtPywViHU&t=04m08s

    I’m not sure what to make of that. However, watching a video regarding Dark Eden, I don’t see Kain spending a lot of time near lava. I think it’s just a bad case of ignoring convectioin like how Mario, Donkey Kong, and recently Link ignoring convection.

  24. Kitten Lord August 30, 2015 at 7:23 am -      #724

    @numin

    “While they were the same colour that doesn’t mean they were the same temperature.”

    So colour is not necessarily a factor of temperature. Ok…

    “Do you have the full scene for the timeframe?”

    Soul posted this one. Its just a gif. It would be cool if we had the actual video. The more I look at it, the more It looks like plastic softening and falling over. Which is interesting because I would not be surprised if their model is made of plastic as well.

    imgur.com/lQ13kiT

    “Steel literally does cool in seconds after the heat is removed, that’s the effect of the air. ”

    How do you explain this?

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=shSMeh8WWTA

    Specifically at 1:44 the steel is in open and even has water pouring over it. Its not soft or molten enough to fall apart like in the video yet is still bright hot 20-30 seconds through the video.

    So I guess this is not steel. That leaves plastic, concrete and wood. not sure anyone has given reasons why we cannot deduce it to being plastic, since that is what it looks like to me the way it droops.

    “Wood would smoke, splinter and snap. That doesn’t happen.”

    A lot of things do not happen. Steel when under great hit can drip as well, but we see nothing dripping off it or glooping either.

    “Concrete would literally explode. I”

    Can you show me this?

    “Not as familiar with plastic, however I have done some polywelding, and I have never seen plastic change colour when you melt it.”

    I have still yet to see Steel instantly cool either. Or become a bright red, the scene is crap and so are the effects.

    Also what are commnication cables made from? I notice that the material of the top of the pyrlon falls apart and the rest is red, ok fine. But what of the cables that are part of the pyrlon? they remain black and appear unchanged throughout.

    @Mea

    “I do know is that the lava is replaced with rock when the person Kain mind controls pulls a lever.”

    Yes and then Kain walks across said platform despite it just coming out of the lava. Point being, a volcanic region filled full of lava is going to be hot, and the person, especially a person who is a cold body like Kain is hardly going to feel wonderful under such heats when walking so close.

  25. Mea quidem sententia August 30, 2015 at 10:46 am -      #725

    @Kitten Lord
    I think convection was ignored. It’s common in fiction, except a few Zelda games and most Metroid games.

  26. Soulerous August 30, 2015 at 1:07 pm -      #726

    Soulerous, the weight of the blocks hardly changed just because it was not made of 100% copper….
    -What do I care for hardly? Wrong is wrong. You inflated the feat by making an assumption without adequate cause. The mere fact that you didn’t initially take brass into account displays this. Brass being lighter than copper by only 24 pounds per cubic foot doesn’t suddenly make that okay. Being close doesn’t mean the process wasn’t still flawed. Making mistakes like that isn’t a big deal, but denying that you made one is.
    ~
    You have yet to bring up a valid reason why the Pylon could not be made of most of the materials.
    -You have yet to bring up valid reasons for why it could. Show me wood melting. Show me plastic turning red or being used for transmission towers in the 1960’s. Show me a lattice tower similar to the one in the movie being made out of concrete. Concrete towers are poles, not lattice towers, and concrete doesn’t melt in that manner. It is very obvious why none of the other materials are possible, and it is very obvious to me that you will do anything you can to doubt the feats of others while not maintaining that same level of scrutiny for yourself.
    ~
    How can you depend on the parts that support your argument that Godzillas breath is hot?
    -I can depend on them because there’s nothing wrong with them. The only inconsistent part is the disappearance of the collapsed section of tower. You don’t get to question things unless there’s something wrong with them. Blood Omen has very limited graphics, but that doesn’t mean I can question that it’s dependable without adequate cause.
    ~
    You say that but the pylon appeared red-orange throughout.
    -No it did not. We only see the top part, near the power lines, when it’s melting. The section that was hit by atomic breath. We never see the base change color.
    ~
    This suggests that the temperature was not enough to melt all the structure and the colours may be irrelevant.
    -The whole structure wasn’t melted because the whole structure wasn’t heated to the same degree.
    ~
    I brought them up because their not in that scene, even though if we were close enough to the scene, e.g. Kains level we should see them.
    -We weren’t at Kain’s level, were we? You say that yourself- “in the cutscene, we are high enough so we cannot see any of those things.” So why would not seeing the two mutants that appear in the area in-game matter? There are only two humanoids and seven tooth noses in the area according to the map. Our view of the cinematic is not enough to determine that they don’t exist in it. Nor would it matter if we could; nothing says we’re getting a full look of Dark Eden rather than just being shown the landscape. The state of the creatures is a separate matter from the appearance of the landscape itself, which is inconsistent.
    ~
    Well were done with it because I have proven it from the video that shows Kain travelling around it.
    -No, we’re done with it because I have factual cause to doubt the in-game representation of Dark Eden. Don’t ignore that and revert back to “proof” that I’ve invalidated.
    ~
    Considering we have an actual organe pool with no skin layer or anything
    -You should look again.
    youtu.be/_Fqj4HvpbmA?t=21m30s
    There are dark patches and black stone all throughout the lava. This means the air is relatively cool.
    ~
    Lava is not cooler than 700 C
    -I’m fine with assuming 700° C.
    ~
    Hes essentially in a massive oven for potentially hours.
    -I understand the oven analogy. No need to keep repeating it. You still don’t know how hot this oven was nor how long Kain stayed in it, which are crucial details here. “Potentially hours” isn’t worth saying. The low-end is what matters.

  27. Kitten Lord August 30, 2015 at 2:35 pm -      #727

    @Soul

    ” You inflated the feat by making an assumption without adequate cause”

    Oh no I had a huge amount of cause, even more than you do for the assumptions you want to apply to Godzilla. I had colour, sound and the fact a large instrument was being formed. This all added up to copper which is true, it just so happened however that it was a copper alloy instead which I admit I did not consider because I had not thought of alloys.

    “Brass being lighter than copper by only 24 pounds per cubic foot doesn’t suddenly make that okay”

    I do not know what you mean by “okay”, it was wrong but the assumptions I used were sound and lined up with brass as well.

    “You have yet to bring up valid reasons for why it could. ”

    How about the fact you provided a source that said Pyrlons are made of these materials? as soon as you posted that, this gives us possibilities.

    ” concrete doesn’t melt in that manner”

    Neither does steel, Steel drips, Steel does not cool so fast etc.

    ” doubt the feats of others while not maintaining that same level of scrutiny for yourself.”

    So hilariously ironic. You badgered me about a block for half a page before I was essentially proven correct. You did not stop gnawing the bone until something was posted that specifically stated it was brass yet now your just handwaving this thing because you think its obvious what it is…

    I think its obviously unreliable because of how bad the special effects are. The metal in the scene does not look like anything so far posted, steel, concrete or aluminium.

    “The state of the creatures is a separate matter from the appearance of the landscape itself,”

    Well that is the thing. Their not seperate, your talking about what we can see. We can see form the cutscene view we are too high to see any living things down there. Yet when close from Kains perpsective, there are monsters, pools of lava, rivers of it and so on.

    ““proof” that I’ve invalidated.”

    Do not ignore the fact your “proof” does not invalidate anything. Your assumption/interpretation is not proof.

    fact, we see from Kains perspective on the ground lava, pools and a lot more features! inlcuding mutants and what not.

    fact we see hardly anything in the cut scene, so we know based on the previous fact and the position of the camera we must be too high up to see these things.

    “You still don’t know how hot this oven was nor how long Kain stayed in it”

    We could break it down. How far up do you need to be positioned for at least human sized objects and streams of lava to be non observable? From there we can gather the scale and size of Dark Eden and then take the walking speed of Kain, which is about human speed, he had no speed boosts to speak of in that game to determine how long it took him to cross the map.

    At “least” tens of minutes because that is how long it takes the player.

    The temperatue has been covered, at around hundreds of C.

  28. Mea quidem sententia August 30, 2015 at 2:49 pm -      #728

    @Soulerous
    I’d work with 650°C instead, since that’s the low-end, unless it can be proved to be a higher temperature. We’ve always went with low-ends.

    As for 60°C for 10 minutes, that’s in extreme humidity. Does humidity increase with lava?

  29. Soulerous August 30, 2015 at 7:05 pm -      #729

    Oh no I had a huge amount of cause
    -Not adequate cause.
    ~
    even more than you do for the assumptions you want to apply to Godzilla. I had colour, sound and the fact a large instrument was being formed.
    -I have color, reactive behavior, and standardized construction. A lot better than sound effects that don’t differ between different block types and a part of an instrument that doesn’t require any musically-conductive properties.
    ~
    I do not know what you mean by “okay”
    -Logically sound or acceptable in BankGambling debate.
    ~
    I admit I did not consider because I had not thought of alloys.
    -I’m so glad. You also did not think stone was possible even though it comes in almost any color and is perfectly suitable for use in pipes.
    ~
    How about the fact you provided a source that said Pyrlons are made of these materials?
    -Steel is the only material from that selection that starts silvery, turns red/orange, and melts in that manner.
    ~
    Neither does steel, Steel drips, Steel does not cool so fast etc.
    -Steel does melt in that manner. It grows weaker as it heats up. It drips when liquid, not when softened. The tower didn’t cool quickly. The part that was heated disappeared.
    ~
    You badgered me about a block for half a page before I was essentially proven correct.
    -You were never proven correct. You stubbornly denied that you shouldn’t have assumed copper.
    ~
    You did not stop gnawing the bone until something was posted that specifically stated it was brass
    -Nothing specifically stated the blocks were brass. The quote said the instrument was brass and stone.
    ~
    I think its obviously unreliable because of how bad the special effects are.
    -This statement is no more effective than “Blood Omen is obviously unreliable because of how bad the graphics are.” We need specific reasons for specific elements.
    ~
    Their not seperate, your talking about what we can see. We can see form the cutscene view we are too high to see any living things down there. Yet when close from Kains perpsective, there are monsters, pools of lava, rivers of it and so on.
    -Your point escapes me.
    ~
    Your assumption/interpretation is not proof.
    -I am not relying on an interpretation. You are favoring one depiction over another with no confirmation as to which is canonical.
    ~
    we see hardly anything in the cut scene, so we know based on the previous fact and the position of the camera we must be too high up to see these things.
    -I am talking about the shape and size of the pools, which we do see. I am talking about the absence of the lava rivers, which we would be able to see if they were as large, relative to the pools and castle, as they are in-game. Creatures and lava cracks we are too high up to see; I’m not talking about those.
    ~
    We could break it down.
    -I question your methods of determining input data.
    ~
    The temperatue has been covered, at around hundreds of C.
    -We would need the temperature of the air, which has no necessary numbers that you’d be excited about.
    ~
    @Dryn- Fair enough. It doesn’t really make a difference in determining how hot the air would be, as we would need to know the local atmospheric conditions for that, specifically wind and fronts.

  30. twillydestroyer August 30, 2015 at 9:01 pm -      #730

    @kitten

    Countless times you’ve said throughout this and other debates that cutscenes are held at higher canon value than game play. That would mean by your logic that the cutscene is canon not the character being controlled by the player.

  31. Numinous One August 30, 2015 at 9:58 pm -      #731

    “So colour is not necessarily a factor of temperature. Ok…”

    If it’s changed colour, of course it’s a factor, but you can’t just go, “well that’s red and this is red so they must both be 630 C”.

    “Specifically at 1:44 the steel is in open and even has water pouring over it. Its not soft or molten enough to fall apart like in the video yet is still bright hot 20-30 seconds through the video.”

    There is a huge difference in heat there, one is a borderline light red, the other is almost white, obviously the hotter one will take longer to cool.
    I’m assuming you’re familiar with the hotter something is, the more bleached of colour it will be?
    The water pouring on it quenches the steel, allowing it to harden enough to mantain it’s form.

    “So I guess this is not steel. That leaves plastic, concrete and wood. not sure anyone has given reasons why we cannot deduce it to being plastic, since that is what it looks like to me the way it droops.”

    From what I could find, FRP has only been in use for around 30years, that movie is over 40years old IIRC.
    Until recently it seemed like it was mostly used to strengthen steel, when it was being used in the construction industry.

    You can see the bolted connections on that tower too, if you know what you’re looking for.

    Concrete is brittle and wouldn’t hold it’s form by itself, that’s why when they construct concrete panels or columns, they structure the inside with steel bars before pouring the concrete.
    Neither can you bolt concrete together in that manner.
    So if it is concrete, then the breath will be much hotter, as pointed out by Soulerous, and there will be steel inside it making it a moot point anyway.
    Not to mention once concrete melts it won’t retain it’s form anyway.
    So basing it on the visuals, concrete, wood and aluminium are the most implausible of the five, and FRP wasn’t used like that until maybe a decade later.
    With everything given so far, and complete lack of evidence for the other materials, Occam’s Razor would support it being steel.

    “Can you show me this?”

    I can try, odds are if I search up “concrete exploding” in any form, it’ll probably just be someone blowing shit up.

  32. Sauroposeidon August 30, 2015 at 11:28 pm -      #732

    Holy fucking shit. Considering how often he melts / explodes tanks, why the fuck are you even arguing over a god damn tower?

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJy8Gpk_qPc

    25 seconds in.

  33. Soulerous August 31, 2015 at 4:38 am -      #733

    Because, Sauroposeidon, I have sadistic and masochistic tendencies. I haven’t even mentioned this in a while.

  34. Kitten Lord August 31, 2015 at 5:36 am -      #734

    @Soul

    “-I have color, reactive behavior, and standardized construction”

    I had all of those things as well, only you do not have “reactive behavior, the Pyrlon does not act like the steel you claim it does.

    “You also did not think stone was possible even though it comes in almost any color and is perfectly suitable for use in pipes.”

    Never heard of a large instrument, especially one hundreds of years old (weathering) being made out of stone, let alone a stone of that colour.

    “and melts in that manner.”


    Not sure any material really melts in that manner, no metal anyway. Flops down like a thin piece of paper? This has yet to be shown. No drips from the metal actually melting? instantly cooling?

    “-You were never proven correct”

    I was, I said it was copper and it turned out to be Copper in addition to tin…so my statement it being copper was true.

    “-I am not relying on an interpretation.”

    Yes you are. Your showing me a cutscene, i gave you a clear reason why we could not see the same things we see from Kains perpsective at his level on the terrain and your saying your interpretation that this cutscene is just different should be taken as fact anyway.

    “masochistic tendencies”

    I have noticed.

    @Twilly

    “That would mean by your logic that the cutscene is canon not the character being controlled by the player.”

    I am not relying on the players control in this discussion. I am looking at the developer crafted environments. If the player had created those environments then it would be non-canon.

    @Numin

    “, “well that’s red and this is red so they must both be 630 C”.”

    Which means we cannot determine what the colours mean in that scene. Therefore they are useless.

    “There is a huge difference in heat there,”

    I am not interested in the differences between heat. The fact remains that among all of those metals, whether their white, yellow or orange, red etc, we can see about 10 bars in a row, some are cooled, some are still cooling. None of them cool back to silver in the time of the video, which is about 20-30 seconds.

    “With everything given so far, and complete lack of evidence for the other materials, Occam’s Razor would support it being steel.”

    Occam’s Razor would not because we see very little to compare it with stee. It just does not act like steel soft or otherwise. Any video shown of steel so far shows it cools relatively slowly to that video.

    We also know the temperature cannot be higher than that required to melt the cables either or heat them up.

    So its likely the material has a lower melting point than steel since those wires are generally made of aluminium.

    So Occams razor supports plastic. It is the only material that could be almost any color, including silver.

    Another likelihood is that the outerside of the bars of this pylon may be thin piecies of steel that are supporting the plastic.

    Course the scene could have painted the pylons red just to show their hot. Which would explain all the physical mistakes when trying to regard it as a realistic depiction of heat. Bringing us back to it possibly being any of the materials and poorly done in the graphics.

    @Sauro

    “25 seconds in.”

    Oh yeah! More stuff exploding. Not melting… There are no pools of metal, even the ground is not shown as being hot. Its just blasted aside…

    Seems to me any claim for heat is based on old graphics and your relying on those old graphics even though you cannot prove anything conclusive from it.

  35. Sauroposeidon August 31, 2015 at 7:34 am -      #735

    I actually find the tanks more impressive than the humans.

    This all stems from the fact that when you rapidly super heat something, it explodes, instead of melting or vaporizing, because it doesn’t have time to change states. It just rips itself apart from the energy being put in to it.

    That’s why in real life, lasers make little flashy explosions on their target. It doesn’t get red, drip, and melt. No. There’s pieces flying off of it and it gets set on fire and shit. The portion that the laser is hitting is being too rapidly heated up to transfer in to a different state of matter and the heat is causing it to “pop.”

    This is part of why I make fun of Kitten Lord, but I figured for the benefit of anyone who maybe doesn’t know, directed energy thermal weaponry makes explosions, it doesn’t melt the target. There is going to usually be some melting present because it’s still not powerful enough to immediately punch through whatever it hits.. but when it does, you’re going to see an effect similar to when a kinetic dart hits the target. Just with more light and fire added on top. What you’ll expect to see if very similar to what Godzilla’s breath does. Although his does it on a very, very wide scale in comparison.

    This is why Godzilla’s atomic ray starting in the 80’s is generally seen as more powerful.

    “Seems to me any claim for heat is based on old graphics”

    Again, your readiness to jump to conclusions is why I call you a fucking idiot. I feel like calling out your incredible levels of fail is akin to beating a dead horse.

    That’s from Tokyo SOS. It was made in 2003. Following that is Godzilla Final Wars, 2004. Following that is Godzilla, 2014. Tokyo SOS is the third most recent Godzilla movie, and is pretty recent at a few months shy of being 11 years old.

    All it would have taken is one google search to let you realize that you’re making a bad argument. It would taken just a little bit of googling and self education to make you realize almost every terribly stupid thing you say.. which is almost everything.. is going to be a bad argument. But you don’t fucking think before you type. You’re like some kind of fucking monkey just acting on reflex and instinct, throwing shit where ever you can.

    This is why I am usually able to provide legitimate counter arguments to almost every single thing that you say, and you’re always on the defensive, constantly having to change your argument and move the goal posts. You don’t do any fucking research.

    “I have sadistic and masochistic tendencies. ”

    Hah, have fun then. I’m through with that horse for now I guess. I don’t expect him to really ever take any of my advice and become, I don’t know, maybe a little bit better at debating.

  36. Sauroposeidon August 31, 2015 at 7:43 am -      #736

    Oh, and I’d forgotten to mention that Godzilla’s beam is refracted back at him by Mothra’s scale dusting technique that she uses. She can bounce back any kind of “energy attack” using shed scales. Part of why she’s so resilient to energy attacks but tends to get manhandled in melee encounters.

    It’s at the 1:25 mark, if you’re interested, soul. It’s a nice view of what happens when Godzilla’s beam is split up and shot at him as an area of effect sort of attack instead of the destructive energies being in a concentrated beam.

  37. Rookie August 31, 2015 at 7:56 am -      #737

    One day I will look at “popular posts” and will see this match on top of it probably.

    We need more Gigan by the way. He is a total asshole in RoE. Even took on SpaceG.

  38. Kitten Lord August 31, 2015 at 8:34 am -      #738

    @Sauro

    “This all stems from the fact that when you rapidly super heat something”

    Conjecture that this happened to the tanks.

    “This is part of why I make fun of Kitten Lord”

    You “try” to bash me because you just do not have any idea how to debate points. Luckily some others in your corner argue a “little” better.

    “That’s from Tokyo SOS. It was made in 2003”

    I am talking about heat, and the gif Soul posted. I just told you that scene you posted was not heat.

    “You’re like some kind of fucking monkey”

    Says the angry little fellow who is going bananas! haha! your such a giggle Sauro…

    “This is why I am usually able to provide legitimate counter arguments ”

    rs294.pbsrc.com/albums/mm87/Pamelia_and_Stormi_SongBird/comments/lol.gif~c200

    “You don’t do any fucking research.”

    This is a lie. You can scroll up to find some research and sources I have found. Its just, all the sources I need for this thread are in here. In the DBZ thread I wanted to research the characters so i made a massive 40 source super post displaying my research and some facts to shatter some of the fanon and conjecture going rampant.

    The fanon in here is not so bad and the sources you use and form your conjecture on are just as useful to me as they are to you.

  39. Soulerous August 31, 2015 at 8:40 am -      #739

    I had all of those things as well
    -There is no standardized construction for huge blocks made to slide into position to form pipe in a building-sized instrument. There’s no standard for that in our world, and more importantly, no standard held by the people of Nosgoth. They aren’t a company, they’re people who made something unique. If they have a written standard for manufacture, present it. That’s what I did.
    ~
    You don’t have reactive behavior either. The blocks slide around. They don’t even get damaged. The only time we would expect to see damage is when Raziel stabs them with his claws, but that leaves no marks.
    ~
    Never heard of a large instrument
    -We don’t have anything like the Silenced Cathedral, do we? So you can’t say stone wouldn’t be used because of that.
    ~
    especially one hundreds of years old (weathering)
    -Are you aware that the blocks were inside the building and that there was a lot of stone that wasn’t weathered? Do you have any idea how long stone actually lasts? Are you aware of the existence of Stonehenge, which is outside?
    ~
    being made out of stone
    -Then allow me to expand your horizons. Many different sorts of stone marimbas and chimes have been made, as well as some stone whistles. The resonant qualities of stone vary substantially from one sort to another; most are extremely dull, while some, like travertine marble, and some slates and volcanic rocks, produce a fairly bright tone quality.
    ~
    As an example, this is a stone horn.
    ~
    And you see how the book mentions slate? Look at all the pretty colors. The color of stone depends on the amounts of minerals in it. The four slate tiles in the middle look very similar to this.
    ~
    Not sure any material really melts in that manner, no metal anyway. Flops down like a thin piece of paper? This has yet to be shown. No drips from the metal actually melting?
    -It does. Materials almost always lose their strength in increments before melting fully into liquid. They bend, they twist, they collapse. Some varieties of steel collapse without even glowing. According to the tester, it’s heated to 1800 – 2,000 degrees.
    ~
    Where did you get the idea that steel goes directly from rigid to dripping liquid? It doesn’t. That’s why blacksmithing is possible.
    ~
    I was, I said it was copper and it turned out to be Copper in addition to tin…so my statement it being copper was true.
    -Firstly, it did not turn out to be copper in addition to tin. The blocks haven’t yet been confirmed to be made of brass. Show me the quote if you disagree.
    ~
    Secondly, calculating pure copper gives a different result from calculating brass. You calculated pure copper.
    ~
    Thirdly, making a guess and happening to be close does not justify making the guess in the first place.
    ~
    Fourthly, I’m done talking about this. Get me a heat resistance feat for Kain using valid input data.
    ~
    Yes you are.
    -No, I’m not relying on an assumption.
    ~
    i gave you a clear reason why we could not see the same things we see from Kains perpsective at his level on the terrain
    -I never claimed we could see the things we see from Kain’s perspective. We can see the pools, and they are different in shape and in size relative to both the castle and amount of land.
    ~
    @Sauro- “I don’t expect him to really ever take any of my advice and become, I don’t know, maybe a little bit better at debating.
    cdn.usetopscore.com/uploads/42/media_items/pigs-fly.517.416.s.png

  40. Klondike Bar August 31, 2015 at 8:45 am -      #740

    ““This all stems from the fact that when you rapidly super heat something”

    Conjecture that this happened to the tanks.”

    What else would be happening? If something explodes it exploded because of the large amount of energy released suddenly and unevenly across an object. It could be a magical fart cloud that simply releases energy and it would still have the same effect as a laser.

    All I really want to know is why it matters if it is heat of a magical fart. If I have a laser that I use to rapidly heat up a tank and blow it up, how is it different from the fairy fart cloud that inserts energy directly into the atoms and causes them to violently tear themselves apart.

  41. Sauroposeidon August 31, 2015 at 8:47 am -      #741

    “One day I will look at “popular posts” and will see this match on top of it probably.”

    Part of why I wouldn’t be adverse to locking this thread.

    A number of posts have threatened to be on the most popular or reached it when they didn’t deserve to be. Like the Cartoon Network Civil War.

  42. Kitten Lord August 31, 2015 at 8:52 am -      #742

    @Klond

    “What else would be happening? ”

    Tanks garry a large amount of munuionts, some of them include high explosive rounds. Basically instead of reaching for the highest feat possible like Sauro something more conventional like the impact of the blast crushing the tanks or hitting them so hard the shells explode would make more sense.

    You can see so many reasons why it cannot be heat, including those i mentioned. No fire, no molten steel or w/e. Even the ground and area around it was not set alight.

    We can see the same when he blasts blocks of flats and tall buildings in other vids. Piecies get smashed off like you just took a sledgehammer to it. Even when he blasted through one of those buildings, he looks through it and again, no heat, no fires, no molten bits.

    There is no reason to assume it was hot at all.

    @Sauro

    “Part of why I wouldn’t be adverse to locking this thread.”

    neither would I. It was a pathetic attempt at spite.

  43. Kitten Lord August 31, 2015 at 9:12 am -      #743

    @Soul

    “-There is no standardized construction for huge blocks”

    But there are standards for instruments in general. Brass and woodwind being the two standards. Stone on the other hand? no so much, possible true but so is constructing pylons out of any metal that does not weather and is strong enough.

    ” They don’t even get damaged. ”

    Which is why they could not be the softer materials your mentioning. Again further proof it is a strong, relatively dense material.

    ” Are you aware of the existence of Stonehenge, which is outside?”

    Stone is not an instrument. There is literally more or less no weathering on those blocks. Their like perfect cubes with perfect hexagons witihn. Maybe a little marked or ditty but other than that, not so worse for wear.

    “As an example”

    Which is minuscule and looks nothing alike to the blocks in color either.

    “The four slate tiles in the middle look very similar to this.”

    One, slate is relatively brittle so we know it cannot be that but two, they barely look alike. The blocks in the game are golden colour and like most stones the slate is granulated and has a mix of shades while the blocks are not so multi toned.

    “-It does”

    Then show me. Showing me some steel that despite the heat is not even glowing (making me wonder if your whole color thing is worth anything now) and breaking in half is not the same as showing me steel bending under its own weight due to going soft.

    “does not justify making the guess in the first place.”

    It was an estimate not a guess, an estimate that proved to be more or less spot on.

    “Fourthly, I’m done talking about this.”

    So am I. Your obtuse comments and bias/double standards are a bore to argue with.

    You want to assume all your conjecture is logical and fact, your “guesses” yet when I estimate something that turns out to be essentially true its completely different apparently…

    Ill play hardball like you. Go and find me the source that says the pylon in that scene is steel and we can go from there. Which is nowhere honestly. even steel based on all our sources can melt or break without even changing colour, does not cool instantly and has ye to be shown to go as soft as in that scene in any realistic scenario..

    Even when white hot is mostly solid…as I showed earlier.

  44. Soulerous August 31, 2015 at 10:23 am -      #744

    Go and find me
    -Not me. You are on the defensive, I am on the offensive. Though you contest the melting of the transmission tower, Godzilla still has a feat for burning the flesh off of humans and you are no closer to getting any sort of useful heat resistance feat for Kain.
    ~
    Your obtuse comments and bias/double standards
    -You are not a capable judge of what is obtuse, biased, or a double standard.
    ~
    Get something for Kain or he gets barbecued.

  45. Klondike Bar August 31, 2015 at 10:37 am -      #745

    Damn. I just realized that this argument should have been made on the Rand vs Kain thread. The heat one I mean. Anyway what is the building scene that is being debated? I can not really refute or even argue against any of Kittens arguments without seeing it. Feel free to just reference the page since there are so many comments now.

    P.S. Also anybody who really knows their BankGambling guidelines are batles sort of judged like who wins the most battles out of ten or one hundred?

  46. Sauroposeidon August 31, 2015 at 10:41 am -      #746

    “P.S. Also anybody who really knows their BankGambling guidelines are batles sort of judged like who wins the most battles out of ten or one hundred?”

    At one point they were, if I recall, but that rule isn’t around anymore.

    That being said, I still find it extremely useful when figuring out which way a battle is likely to lean if there’s too many variables.

  47. Soulerous August 31, 2015 at 10:52 am -      #747

    @Klondike Bar– If by “building scene” you mean the melting of the tower.
    ~
    @Sauro- Any idea when that rule was removed? I can’t seem to find it now.

  48. Klondike Bar August 31, 2015 at 12:15 pm -      #748

    Looking at that thing it seems like it was intended to be metal. Sure it cools off to quickly but hey it seems pretty old. When was the movie set. As Kitten himself has been arguing the intent of the writers seems to be more important than the fine detail of the physics of the prop. Metal does bend more easily at high temperatures and the thing does not seem to just be melting just bending under its own weight.

    I just looked it up on Wikipedia and it talks about power line towers being made of steel latticework. Unless the wiki has just completely ignored using some form of plastic then it seems like it is probably metal.

  49. Kitten Lord August 31, 2015 at 1:10 pm -      #749

    @Soul

    “. Though you contest the melting of the transmission tower”

    Sure I do. If you want to drop it fine..

    ” Godzilla still has a feat for burning the flesh off of humans”

    More like burning their skin, their not skeletons on strike and we have no idea how long it takes him to do that.

    “You are not a capable judge”

    I am a brilliant judge.

    “Get something for Kain or he gets barbecued”

    Oh what you thought this argument was whether or not Kain gets barbecued or not? Sorry to disappoint you sweet chicken but you still have to counter how Kain is going to get hit at all by what is effectively a relatively slow beam or charge up.

    You have yet to prove he will use the heat ray over his destructive ray.

    You have yet to prove how he is going to track anyone who can teleport or transform into mist on a whim.

    @Klond

    “I just looked it up on Wikipedia and it talks about power line towers being made of steel latticework. Unless the wiki has just completely ignored using some form of plastic then it seems like it is probably metal.”

    We found out that towers are “generally” made up out of wood, concrete, steel, aluminium or reinforced plastic.

    The cords on the other hand are generally aluminium, some of them may have some steel around them and those are not melted or broken in the video.

    So…if we are going to get as complicated on this scene and say the writers took into account hte correct colours to melt things at, and the correct temperatures and what not, it has to be “at least” made of a metal that has a lower softening point to aluminium or steel.

    I posted the softening points of metals earlier, it was in the 500 C range.

  50. Sauroposeidon August 31, 2015 at 2:36 pm -      #750

    “@Sauro- Any idea when that rule was removed? I can’t seem to find it now”

    At this point, I am not even convinced that it was a rule. My memory is rather faulty. It might’ve been a rule to a specific match, or a suggestion someone made, even myself maybe. I’ve been here for a few years no and it all has blended together.

  51. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 2:38 pm -      #751

    This is mind boggling.
    ==
    “how Kain is going to get hit at all by what is effectively a relatively slow beam or charge up.”
    – Not relatively slow, [X] This calc goes to show that 1) Godzilla can hit hypersonic targets and 2) His beam is at least Mach 2. What are Kain’s reaction times like, again? And it doesn’t need to be charged, others have given links to videos of him just firing it when he wants Here is another one (or the same one) and even if he does have to charge it, so what?! When he can hit things going Mach 5, Kain doesn’t stand a chance of getting out of its way (because I don’t remember any reactionary feats on that scale and you haven’t shown any.)

    I just checked the Vs Battle Wiki, it says Kain has at least hypersonic movement speed, so he moves at least as slow as Mach 5.. which means he’s getting hit by Godzilla’s beam.

    “You have yet to prove he will use the heat ray over his destructive ray.”
    – They’re one in the same. He doesn’t actively pick which one to fire, its one beam.

    “You have yet to prove how he is going to track anyone who can teleport or transform into mist on a whim.”
    – Gigan can teleport in any of the games (unfortunately for you, the games are as canon as any of the movies until Toho says its not (a la Zilla)) and Kain still takes damage in mist form, that’s not going to help him.
    ==
    Now, how strong is Godzilla’s atomic breath? Well, first of all, its delivers much more energy than Kain has even been shown to shrug off.

    [X] Calced his beam to output 34.42 kilotons of TNT equivalent; nuclear pulse’s output is 13.92 kilotons [low-end] – 85.81 kilotons [high-end]
    [X] DeathBattle calc’ed the breath to pack 2.2 quintillion (that’s 2.2*10^18, or 2,200,000,000,000,000,000) N/m^2, we can convert that to 2.2 quintillion joules (because newton-meters and joules are cool like that.) Does anyone remember the earthquake that hit Japan in 2011? Yeah, that had 1.41 exajoules (1.41 quintillion joules) of energy. Godzilla packs 2.2 exajoules in his breath, his breath which can be calced to reach Mach 4 but can hit things that are moving Mach 8 (implying it is also moving at Mach 8.)
    ==
    How has this “debate” gone on for 750 posts?

  52. Sauroposeidon August 31, 2015 at 2:50 pm -      #752

    Most of it is Kitten shit posting over the tiniest things as if the entire debate hinges on them.

  53. OriginalA August 31, 2015 at 2:54 pm -      #753

    “unfortunately for you, the games are as canon as any of the movies until Toho says its not (a la Zilla))”

    Umm. Godzilla 98 is canon… well, at least sometimes (but all of the movies are only sometimes canon in the Godzilla series since there are multiple continuities). GMK directly references Godzilla 98 as an event that occurred (it clarifies that Zilla was probably miss-identified as Godzilla). Final Wars makes a reference that implies 98 is also canon to that film as well (how would an alien even know what tuna is, much less that Zilla, which didn’t even come from Earth in Final Wars, eats it unless a Zilla did eat it in some unrelated event… like, say, the 98 event).

    The only thing Toho said is that Godzilla 98 is a disgrace to the character Godzilla and that henceforth the Godzilla 98 character will be re-branded as Zilla. Toho is still legally compelled to refer to the specific 98 monster as Godzilla though.

  54. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 2:57 pm -      #754

    Its canon but not to Godzilla as a character. Zilla is Zilla, Godzilla is Godzilla, the movie doesn’t make them one and the same. That’s what I meant by that, I thought people would infer that by my calling him Zilla, haha.

  55. OriginalA August 31, 2015 at 3:25 pm -      #755

    Ah… I see. I misunderstood then.

    Personally I subscribe to the idea that the Japanese fisherman that initially named the 98 creature as “Godzilla/Gojira” just made a mistake because he only saw the dorsal fin things, which both Zilla and Godzilla have. He saw those fins and thought back to ’54 so when asked what he saw he says “godzilla” and then everybody just runs with it for the entire movie.

    Kinda like how in Rulers for Earth, Zilla gets his name because a CKR soldier hears over the radio “*buzz buzz buzz -zilla buzz buzz incoming” and so he calls it Zilla. … Only for it later to be revealed that the radio call was saying “Godzilla is incoming” and for the real mccoy to show up himself.

  56. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 3:28 pm -      #756

    I didn’t explain it well enough, its my fault, apologize.
    ==
    That makes a ton of sense, actually.

  57. Friendlysociopath August 31, 2015 at 3:36 pm -      #757

    His beam is at least Mach 2

    “At least”

    Goes wellllllll past the Mesosphere in 2 seconds- from ground level. Above Mach 50- easily.

  58. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 3:43 pm -      #758

    @Friendly
    The calcs were mainly for MiraGoji (Godzilla 2000).
    ==
    That clip also shows Godzilla firing his breath with no charge up, Kitten.
    – EDIT: Kain is intangible in his mist form, I think. Can’t remember 100%

  59. Friendlysociopath August 31, 2015 at 4:07 pm -      #759

    That clip also shows Godzilla firing his breath with no charge up

    Define what you mean by “Charge up” because he definitely took a second or so to fire.

    Kain is intangible in his mist form

    Kain IS mist in his mist form. He can even be trapped in that form just like mist can be trapped.
    So if Godzilla were to hit an area with a misty Kain in it- Kain would still perish.

  60. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 4:13 pm -      #760

    “Define what you mean by “Charge up” because he definitely took a second or so to fire.”
    – I mean there was no time between his dorsal fins lighting up and the beam leaving his mouth, he just fired it. I wouldn’t even say he took a second to fire it, as soon as Monster X looked up he was hit in the face with the beam.
    ==
    “Kain IS mist in his mist form.”
    – Yeah, I was trying to remember how the mist form worked and was drawing blanks, its been a while since I’ve played any LoK games.

  61. Klondike Bar August 31, 2015 at 6:21 pm -      #761

    “We found out that towers are “generally” made up out of wood, concrete, steel, aluminium or reinforced plastic.”

    Kitten I dun goofed. We need to figure out what type of tower it was. Looking over the wiki page again it talks about several different kinds towers and how they all use different mats. Eg the large towers near a hydrolic damn that leads through an empty forest is generally pretty damn huge. But they get alot smaller near populated areas.

    Also Kitten I am not sure about England but here in my specific part of america at least there is insulation around the wires. Maybe you thought it would be obvious but I was just unsure if that is what you meant.

    Also were the plastic towers used in 1975? If so feel free to tell me so.

  62. Friendlysociopath August 31, 2015 at 6:38 pm -      #762

    I wouldn’t even say he took a second to fire it, as soon as Monster X looked up he was hit in the face with the beam.

    Oh that one- I totally forgot I linked to the fight itself- I just wanted him shooting at the meteor.
    Final Wars Godzilla doesn’t have much charge time, and Composite Godzilla really doesn’t since he’s got a ton of no-charge shots throughout his career.

    We need to figure out what type of tower it was.

    It’s steel for reasons Soul has pointed out quite thoroughly alongside Numinous.

  63. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 6:42 pm -      #763

    “Oh that one- I totally forgot I linked to the fight itself- I just wanted him shooting at the meteor.”
    – Oh, ha, no. I was talking about the one Monster X took to the face. The one used to slow down the meteor definitely had some charge time – and was massively hypersonic.

  64. Klondike Bar August 31, 2015 at 6:59 pm -      #764

    “It’s steel for reasons Soul has pointed out quite thoroughly alongside Numinous.”

    I agree entirely that that is what it was supposed to be. Problem is that honestly seeing the scene of the melting tower reminds me of melting plastic. Probably that is how they made the special effect or something.

    Also Kitten. It seems semi-hypocritical to say that when Raziel moves the four blocks the same way he moves one is clearly developer intent. And to then say that the tower must not be steel because it does not look like it to you. Completely disregarding anything resembling developers intent.

  65. Sauroposeidon August 31, 2015 at 9:33 pm -      #765

    “Probably that is how they made the special effect or something.”

    It looks like wet painted cardboard to me, personally.

  66. Klondike Bar August 31, 2015 at 9:43 pm -      #766

    That could be it too. My main point is that you can not take a scene like that and claim that it is not steel based on the look of it. There was not advanced special effects.

  67. Mea quidem sententia August 31, 2015 at 9:50 pm -      #767

    @Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable
    Actually, N/m^2 is not the same as N m. The former is pressure, the latter is energy.

    As for metals, aluminum is used for “roofing, flashing, gutters, downspouts, wall panels, and spandrels.”

    “Cast iron was a major 19th century building material of the Industrial Revolution. Although brittle, it is remarkably strong in compression. It was frequently used for structural purposes, such as columns, building fronts, domes and light courts. [. . .] Steel was introduced to the construction industry at the end of the 19th century. The development of structural steel in the mid-19th century allowed construction of tall buildings. [. . .] Bridges, railroad companies, and skyscrapers were among the first large-scale uses of structural steel.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architectural_metals

    The Twin Towers used steel beams or I-beams. Whichever you wish to call it. We’re using steel. It’s a common alloy in buildings.

  68. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 9:54 pm -      #768

    @Mea
    Right, its pressure, but that pressure would exert a force on whatever it hits, right? That’s what I was working off, but I could be totally mistaken.

  69. Mea quidem sententia August 31, 2015 at 10:57 pm -      #769

    I would assume that an adult male with a surface area of 1.9 m^2 would mean a force of 4.18 * 10^18 N, or 469,852,900,000,000 short tons. That is if I did that correctly.

  70. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable August 31, 2015 at 11:37 pm -      #770

    Uh, what is this in relation to? My comment or someone else’s? Where’d the 4.18 come from? Or was that just an example number?

  71. Mea quidem sententia August 31, 2015 at 11:39 pm -      #771

    Yours. 4.18 * 10^18 N refers to 2.2 quintillion N/m^2 * 1.9 m^2.

  72. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 1, 2015 at 1:28 am -      #772

    Um, I think I’ll just defer to you on the science-y mumbo jumbo. So, yeah, my bad.

  73. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 5:11 am -      #773

    @Oh

    “http://bankgambling.com/11374-godzilla-vs-kain/comment-page-8/#comment-601343”

    “His beam is at least Mach 2. ”

    Can I see the video of Godzilla fighting this UFO please? I cannot determine its speed when fighting Godzilla without a video showing me.

    Your source admits he assumes the distance as well.

    ” And it doesn’t need to be charged, others have given links to videos of him just firing it when he wants”

    Some charge, some don’t, I have yet to see an impressive effect from one that did not charge. For example even the one that blew up tanks took a second or so before it fired. You then have that meteor one, a long charge up after preparation.

    “I just checked the Vs Battle Wiki, it says Kain has at least hypersonic movement speed, so he moves at least as slow as Mach 5.. which means he’s getting hit by Godzilla’s beam.”

    He does not have to jump out of the way. As you outlined later, we know Kain can teleport, we know Kain can become mist.

    “They’re one in the same.”

    Clearly not. they have different effects. You show me the third one later in your post, a propulsion breath.

    “Gigan can teleport in any of the games (unfortunately for you,”

    He can but did he in the canon battle? or did he not? Or did the player/computer react like in most fighting games and nothing was scripted by the creators?

    “Now, how strong is Godzilla’s atomic breath? Well, first of all, its delivers much more energy than Kain has even been shown to shrug off.”

    It can blow up tanks and it takes time boring through regular office blocks and what not, so no, not even close.

    “Right, its pressure, but that pressure would exert a force on whatever it hits, right? That’s what I was working off, but I could be totally mistaken.”

    Pressure is force divided by area. The area in the case of him just breathing his breath into the vicinity is impossible to know where all the energy is going, only that its output is enough to lift him. If he could project all that energy/force into the size of Kain then that could damage him, but this is yet to be proven.

    On the other hand, it is proven by the evidence the output force is not that high when he shoots his beams. It takes time to bore buildings made of what is assumed to be concrete with steel supports. And when he anchors himself in t hat meteor scene, it does not even push him into the dirt, suggesting the dirt around his feet is enough of an anchor.

    Finally, the force he is outputting to propel himself creates no disortion to the world so I have no idea what energy he is using to move himself. Its not like the even disturbs the ground beneath him when he flies or creates shockwaves “shrug”

    “How has this “debate” gone on for 750 posts?”

    How? I don’t know man. I guess its because the Godzilla side think that blowing up tanks, slowly cutting through buildings and a fairly clumsy lizard that can dance on mars is really cool like?

    @Friendly

    “So if Godzilla were to hit an area with a misty Kain in it- Kain would still perish.”

    Why?

    @Klond

    “Also were the plastic towers used in 1975? If so feel free to tell me so.”

    No idea.

    “Also Kitten I am not sure about England but here in my specific part of america at least there is insulation around the wires. Maybe you thought it would be obvious but I was just unsure if that is what you meant.”

    What level of insulation? I can only find sources on copper wires being bunched up with aluminium. Those cables did not melt or break or w/e from the heat…

    ” And to then say that the tower must not be steel because it does not look like it to you. Completely disregarding anything resembling developers intent.”

    We have no idea what material it was intended to be. We can see there are 4 blocks and it is intended for Raziel to move them. We can see the Pylon, and we can see Godzilla melting the top of it (but not hte cables), this is the developer intent. That they wanted Godzilla to melt this Pyrlon. I am not argueing that is what happened. But the material? It could be all sorts of things.

    conclusion

    Were back at square one. Kain being a nigh indestructable human szied object that can appear anywhere around Godzilla almost on a whim, disapear from his sight, appear on him, and then cut him to ribbons/manipulate his blood as I covered in my awsome sotry at post # 578

  74. Klondike Bar September 1, 2015 at 8:23 am -      #774

    Speaking of Godzilla’s blood I heard somewhere that it is supposedly either somehow pure radiation or extremely radioactive. Would Kain be able to drink it still.

  75. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 8:44 am -      #775

    If it was pure radiation and not actually fluid blood I cannot see him being able to. But I have seen him spurt blood in the movies when hes injured so it appears to be actual, you know…fluid.

    Its not about Kan drinking it, although in my story that was just an amusing side affect. The act of his blood being controlled would be fatal.

    Whether Kain can drink it and gain powers after the match is just an interesting discussion. What he would gain from Godzilla..hmm…

  76. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 9:23 am -      #776

    ” I have yet to see an impressive effect from one that did not charge.”

    It’s like he doesn’t even pay attention. That instant atomic ray that shoved a 40,000 ton kaiju back half a kilometer? Nah, never happened.

    “extremely radioactive.”

    Is what it would be.

    “{As you outlined later, we know Kain can teleport, we know Kain can become mist.”

    And we know neither of which would be particularly useful abilities, as he’s fought and defeated opponents who can teleport and take on cloud-like or abstract-ish forms, such as Gigan and Shinamura. So he’d be able to react to teleporting and would know to attack the mist.

    “He can but did he in the canon battle? ”

    You heard it here, folks. According to Kitten, video games are not canon. Guess every single feat from kain is useless because it isn’t canon.

    Also means we can only use those two awful moves for feats in Mortal Kombat. Time to go back and redo every single one of the Mortal Kombat matches!

    “Clearly not. they have different effects. You show me the third one later in your post, a propulsion breath.”

    You have had it explained to you more than once that they’re the same thing.

    You’ve had it explained to you how thermal weapons work.

    You have yet to explain what you think his “destructive” breath is. You simply seem to think it has no heat element, which.. is fucking moronic, since it can’t NOT have a heat effect once it becomes that hard hitting.

    What you’re seeing are older special effects vs newer special effects.

    You realize that TOHO themselves have never specified that he has two unique breath weapons, which are wholly only heat and only.. whatever you think the other is. Or three, for that matter, concerning propulsion. Right? According to them it’s always the same weapon.

    “On the other hand, it is proven by the evidence the output force is not that high when he shoots his beams. It takes time to bore buildings made of what is assumed to be concrete with steel supports. And when he anchors himself in t hat meteor scene, it does not even push him into the dirt, suggesting the dirt around his feet is enough of an anchor.”

    Guess all of our modern day weapons and artillery are useless because it would take dozens of shots to punch a hole clean through a sky scraper from even our M777. All of it is weak and humanity as a whole should be ashamed of how pathetic their weaponry are.

    Of course the ground is enough to anchor him. He’s spread the force out between his feet and his tail. What exactly are you expecting? Why would you be expecting it?

    “Why?”

    Because the mist would be destroyed. For the same reason Kain gets hurt when in mist form, presumably.

    “Those cables did not melt or break or w/e from the heat…”

    What? Why would they? They would spread the heat out and eventually expand and sag if they were real cables. Eventually they would break under their own sagging if they were real. Which we know they’re not. We know they’re props.

    Even if they could do that, they wouldn’t. Props on that scale are difficult to create, require a lot of skill and money to make look that good, and most importantly, realistic models are hard as fuck to break.

    They used to make the models as realistic as possible, but the actors themselves didn’t have the strength to break them properly. So they stopped. At the movies kept being popular and they kept cranking them out, production values dropped.

    You’re essentially calling out bad graphics and production goofs as proof for your arguments when you know full well no one is going to accept that because you’re arguing over what 1:50th scale miniature props are doing, ones that have been intentionally dumbed down or with corners cut in their making process, and then pointing out any time they don’t act 100% like the real thing like that’s somehow going to work as an argument.

    “It could be all sorts of things.”

    They would have used steel, we figured that out already.

    “conclusion”

    Kain can’t hurt Godzilla. He can’t avoid Godzilla. He can’t tank Godzilla. Even if he managed to close on to Godzilla, there’s no reason to think a Nuclear Pulse wouldn’t kill him. Assuming he isn’t burned to death by the rampant radiation pouring out of Godzilla to begin with.

    Even if he could hurt Godzilla, we know Godzilla’s healing factor is almost instant.

    But he can’t, because Godzilla has tanked black holes, atomic weapons, life wiping meteor impacts, absolute zero attacks, and various armor piercing weapons including powerful drills, kinetic energy piercing rounds, and the teeth and claws of various monsters.

    Even when cutting weapons, like Kiryu’s drill do penetrate his hide, it doesn’t stop him. That drill went THROUGH his gut! Kiryu still ended up losing with out the help of the Mothra twins.

    Or perhaps the time Destroyah’s energy blade cut through Godzilla, twice. All that was left was scar tissue after the attacks were finished, but they clearly cut THROUGH him, and that didn’t make him stop.

    It doesn’t matter how much Kain can hurt him, even if he can hurt him. He’s not dishing out damage fast enough to get around the healing factor. Nor is he dishing out damage enough to stop Godzilla in his tracks.

    So I don’t even care about the argument of if Kain could hurt him, although I don’t think he could.

    We don’t have any reason to think he’d survive long long enough to get close. Or that he’d survive once he is close if he did somehow. Or that he’d be able to do any noticeable damage to Godzilla. Or that he can tank ANYTHING Godzilla does to attack him. He’s not faster than a Jet, or any of the various Marvel Heroes Godzilla has smacked out of the air or outright dodges attacks from, to my knowledge.

    There isn’t a single angle which you’ve managed to convince anyone on at all. It’s just you, arguing weird things like power lines not melting like you think it’ll make anyone concede..

  77. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 9:55 am -      #777

    @Sauro

    “he’s fought and defeated opponents who can teleport and take on cloud-like or abstract-ish forms, such as Gigan and Shinamura. So he’d be able to react to teleporting and would know to attack the mist.”

    Seriously prove this. Don’t just say “oh shit, well Gigan “can” teleport in one of the games when the player/CPU decides to do so!” , actually show me the scripted, canon event happening.

    “You heard it here, folks. According to Kitten, video games are not canon.”

    That is not what I said, reading comprehension for the win?

    “You have had it explained”

    I have been given some conjecture.

    “What? Why would they?”

    Because cables are made of aluminium and/or steel. They do not melt or soften or w/e in that scene. So the scene shows us that the heat is less than the melting point of those two metals.

    “You’re essentially calling out bad graphics and production goofs”

    Those same goofs are being used as evidence. If you think its a load of rubbish then the opposition should drop it as a useful source.

    “Even if he managed to close on to Godzilla, there’s no reason to think a Nuclear Pulse wouldn’t kill him. ”

    There is no feat for it. It basically blasted some little bugs off him in one scene, said scene showed humans and helicopters being not so far away and covering the story for the humans back home so….you know…hardly useful.

    “Even when cutting weapons, like Kiryu’s drill do penetrate his hide, it doesn’t stop him. ”

    Kains sword does not do physical damage. And further, Kain is not just going to stop at harming his gut. He may not even have to pierce him at all what with blood control.

    “We don’t have any reason to think he’d survive long long enough to get close.”

    Hes immortal, super durable and has a healing factor like Godzilla so he has every reason to get close considering Godzilla takes time to bore through a block of flats..

    “He’s not faster than a Jet, ”

    He does not have to be….he does not have to be fast at all what with teleportation. Godzilla is not fast either. He is a relatively slow, lumbering beast in the grand percentage of the movies save osme of the awful old ones where he does impossible leaps of physics.

    “It’s just you, arguing weird things like power lines not melting like you think it’ll make anyone concede..”

    Hardly weird. Quite relevent. You bring up things you cannot prove he ever faced or had to deal with, you just bring up things characters “can do”, not how Godzilla dealt with it or how said characters used it against him.

    Has anything even been posted to show Godzilla would use his beam breath on a single human sized target? And not, you know just try and stamp on him…

    Even if he does manage to destroy Kain, Kain can come back from nothing.

  78. Mea quidem sententia September 1, 2015 at 10:23 am -      #778

    So even after I brought up structural steel, it was ignored, just like every other point. Moral of the story: Don’t bother with Kitten Lord.

  79. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 10:38 am -      #779

    “Don’t bother with Kitten Lord.”

    I think we do it for the same reason we sometimes go back to starting areas. Going over the basics. He’s like the slime at the start of many RPG’s.

  80. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 10:46 am -      #780

    “He does not have to be….he does not have to be fast at all what with teleportation. Godzilla is not fast either. He is a relatively slow, lumbering beast in the grand percentage of the movies save osme of the awful old ones where he does impossible leaps of physics”

    About the only thing I bothered to read since.. it sort of proves my point on how you never do any real research. As I’ve pointed out in the past, you grab the first thing that lights up as supporting your argument and then you throw it out there with out doing REAL research.

    Godzilla footage is slowed down to half speed. He moves typically half as fast as his actor can move, in other words, who is moving as fast as he can.

    This is how they simulate the appearance of him being gigantic.

    This is, except for rare occasion, how it is generally done. He is never faster or slower. He just is choosing to either do something casually or quickly, just as we do in real life.

    See what I mean, Mea? It’s like going up to those old mobs you first began with and using them as a chance to really stretch your muscles and try shit out and hone your techniques with out really risking getting stomped flat.

  81. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 1, 2015 at 11:39 am -      #781

    “Can I see the video of Godzilla fighting this UFO please? I cannot determine its speed when fighting Godzilla without a video showing me.”
    – What’s stopping you from looking it up?

    “Some charge, some don’t, I have yet to see an impressive effect from one that did not charge.”
    – He did not charge the one he used against Monster X in the video linked in Friendly’s post (#757) and he pushed back Monster X, Monster X weighs 60,000 metric tons and was thrown back hundreds of meters. Unless you’re being a dishonest fuckpuppet, that’s pretty damned impressive.

    “As you outlined later, we know Kain can teleport, we know Kain can become mist. ”
    – Teleporting would be “jumping” out of the way. Mist form would still get destroyed.
    ==
    What’s his range on teleportation? How far can it move him?
    ==
    “Clearly not. they have different effects. You show me the third one later in your post, a propulsion breath. ”
    – Nope, they are all the same breath attack used in different capacities. What you’re doing is saying “Oh, look, there are different types of fire because this one is used to heat things and this one is used for light” that’s fucking stupid.

    “He can but did he in the canon battle? or did he not? Or did the player/computer react like in most fighting games and nothing was scripted by the creators?”
    – The ability to teleport was obviously scripted by the creators. Therefore any fight wherein it was used was scripted by the creators. Hey, can Kain really turn into mist or is it just the player/cpu controling him?

    “I don’t know man. I guess its because the Godzilla side think that blowing up tanks, slowly cutting through buildings and a fairly clumsy lizard that can dance on mars is really cool like? ”
    – Its clearly the Godzilla-side. Its totally not the one dude arguing for the barely super-human tick. Nah, that would be crazy!

  82. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 12:37 pm -      #782

    “– What’s stopping you from looking it up?”

    Godzilla blows up a number of UFO’s through out his career. In this case it might be useful to quote the movie it happens in and the rough time range it occurs in. There’s no obligation to provide the clip to him illegally, but there’s no harm in citing the exact moment it happens.

  83. Friendlysociopath September 1, 2015 at 12:39 pm -      #783

    What’s stopping you from looking it up?

    While I personally go out of my way to find evidence of the opposition, most of the time the person making the claim should present evidence for said claim if asked for it.

    Example:
    “Cloud cuts through steel and concrete like butter”
    Since most people here have seen Advent Children/know of Cloud’s exploits in it- they won’t ask for proof because they already know.
    If someone does not know and wishes to see the “proof” to validate it, you must provide said proof.

    Why?

    Because Kain in Mist Form is quite literally Mist, Mist can be destroyed Kitten- it’s just air, air burns. We even know Kain can be affected in that form because there are traps that he gets stuck in when he’s misty.

    Even if he does manage to destroy Kain, Kain can come back from nothing.

    Not a chance, even by your levels of wank, can Kain come back from nothing.

  84. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 1, 2015 at 12:48 pm -      #784

    “In this case it might be useful to quote the movie it happens in and the rough time range it occurs in.”
    – I don’t feel like I should. The person who did the calc provided images, and if that wasn’t good enough I also stated that calc was specific to Godzilla 2000, “UFO vs Godzilla 2000” would return the fight in question if he feels the need for video.

  85. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 1:11 pm -      #785

    “– I don’t feel like I should. The person who did the calc provided images, and if that wasn’t good enough I also stated that calc was specific to Godzilla 2000, “UFO vs Godzilla 2000” would return the fight in question if he feels the need for video.”

    Ah I missed the part.

    No reason to give him anything then.

    That being said I don’t remember him ever hitting Orga’s UFO when it wasn’t sitting still, or even firing at it when it wasn’t sitting still… The UFO’s in the showa era that he blows up were seriously booking it, though. Which page was the clip on? I’d like to go hunt it down myself.

  86. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 5:06 pm -      #786

    @Mea

    “So even after I brought up structural steel”

    We have already gone over all the types of material it could be. It cannot be structural steel unless it has a lower melting point than aluminium?

    @Sauro

    “This is how they simulate the appearance of him being gigantic.”

    Your premise is lost honestly. If the film shows him moving slow, hes moving slow period.

    @Oh

    “What’s stopping you from looking it up?”

    Because its your source, not mine.

    “He did not charge the one he used against Monster X i”

    I counted a good few seconds, and that is not including preparation. This is the blast that fired a beam into space and blew up a meteor? If your refering to the beam at about 2 mins in then we do not see his face until the beam is fired so you have no idea if he charged or not.

    ” that’s pretty damned impressive.”

    What is? Pushing a creature across gravely dirt, said dirt not even breaking or falling under its impact? Not dislodging? no craters of any kind? that feat? He did not even clear the debris, there is tons of debris between him and Godzilla, fallen buildings etc.

    “What’s his range on teleportation? How far can it move him?”

    I am not sure teleport travels distance but he has teleported at least about 50-100 meters. He can do about 5/6 in under a couple of seconds.

    “Nope, they are all the same breath”

    Prove their the same. I can see different breaths. They look different, they react to the environment different etc.

    ” Therefore any fight wherein it was used was scripted by the creators”

    No wrong. If the player or the CPU just decided to use it then its not scripted. If its possible that the power was not used in any situation then it is not scripted period.

    ” Hey, can Kain really turn into mist or is it just the player/cpu controling him?”

    Not the same situation. Your claiming Godzilla can react to someone as small as Kain teleporting around him or w/e and hit him with his charged up beam because a character in one of the games “can” teleport. That is like me saying Raziel can deal with soul rape, mind rape and time control just because Kain has them ignoring the fact he never used them in their canon scripted fights.

    “super-human tick. ”

    That would actually be quite effective against a large lumbering monstrosity, did you see the film Ant-man? You know size is one of those things that are so easy to become a hinderance like in this fight for Godzilla.

    Imagine having a tick on your body right now that teleports every time you feel a pinch that is injecting deadly poison into your system and you try and find it on your body…..nightmare..

    ” if he feels the need for video.”

    Yes i do.

    @Friendly

    “Not a chance”


    The manual specifically states Kain dematerilzes and reforms. So yeah, chance.

  87. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 1, 2015 at 5:26 pm -      #787

    “Because its your source, not mine. ”
    – Thats not a reason you can’t look it up. I provided still images, calcs, and the means with which you can research to your hearts content. That’s my source and is sufficient for me.

    “If your refering to the beam at about 2 mins in then we do not see his face until the beam is fired so you have no idea if he charged or not. ”
    – We don’t have to see his face to deduce whether or not he charged. We see his dorsal spikes, they are not blue, implying no charging.

    “What is?”
    – Aw, you’re a dishonest fuckpuppet, then. Good.

    Since you’re less-than-honest, allow me to explain. To move Monster X even 1 meter would require 90,000,000 Newtons (F=M*A). To move Monster X 100 meters? We’ll say acceleration is 10 meters a second (even though its clearly more than that), and Godzilla’s beam is dishing out 900,000,000 Newtons.

    “I am not sure teleport travels distance but he has teleported at least about 50-100 meters.”
    – Then he’s dead. He is nowhere near fast enough to be able to dodge the beam.

    “Prove their the same. I can see different breaths.”
    – Changing context here? There are two different breaths, his “normal” blue one and his more powerful red spiral ray. Do you mean a difference between a “incendiary one” and a “concussive one”? Have you proven that they are two separate beams?

    “If the player or the CPU just decided to use it then its not scripted.”
    – False. Scripted means “written”, the teleportation ability was written. As canon. Its canon.

    “That is like me saying Raziel can deal with soul rape, mind rape and time control just because Kain has them ignoring the fact he never used them in their canon scripted fights. ”
    – That is nothing like what I am saying at all. What I am saying, and I’ll explain it for you as well since you have the intellect of a child, Godzilla has dealt with X ability, X ability does not present a challenge to Godzilla, therefore Kain having X does not make him any sort of threat.

    “That would actually be quite effective against a large lumbering monstrosity, did you see the film Ant-man?”
    – Completely ignored everything else in that paragraph. Good on ya.

    “Imagine having a tick on your body right now that teleports every time you feel a pinch that is injecting deadly poison into your system and you try and find it on your body…..nightmare..”
    – Well, 1) Kain can’t pierce Godzilla’s skin and 2) Godzilla can scratch everywhere at once.

    “Yes i do. ”
    – Look it up, kiddo, you’re a big boy, I believe in ya.

  88. Friendlysociopath September 1, 2015 at 5:30 pm -      #788

    The manual specifically states Kain dematerilzes and reforms.

    He turns into bats and flies away, he does not return from nothingness. That was sad even for you.

    Prove their the same.

    Are you really so stupid?
    Godzilla does not have heat breath, atomic breath, propulsion breath- he has one attack, Atomic Breath. And he has his modified version- the spiral one. All the modified version does in increase power.
    He can use it however he wants- blowing stuff up, melting them, pushing them back, lighting a forest on fire, making himself fly- all of these are things he can do.
    It’s not a different breath for each use Kitten. That is one sad argument you are making.

    Your claiming Godzilla can react to someone as small as Kain

    You’re aware his SON is the size of a human right? And Godzilla has identified and singled out specific humans before? Multiple times?

  89. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 5:37 pm -      #789

    @Oh

    “That’s my source and is sufficient for me.”


    HA! if only sources being sufficient for the person making the claim was the point of providing proof. Then i could be almost as lazy as you and not have to post dozens of sources (when I do and have).

    “We see his dorsal spikes, they are not blue, implying no charging.”

    We just see his tail dude. You see his tail swing at the enemy, and a second or two later he shoots his beam.

    “900,000,000 Newtons.”

    You did not take into account frictional force or what not. And you ignored the facts I pointed out, no damage to the buildings in the way. He did not just hit those buildings with hundreds of thousands of newtons because there is no clearing through them.

    “That is nothing like what I am saying at all.”

    Ok show me him in a scripted fight. You know, a scene not up to the whims of the players or CPU dodging and diving out of the way of teleportation. preferably a cutscene…thanks…

    ” He is nowhere near fast enough to be able to dodge the beam.”

    What the beam that takes a second to even begin charging? Not including his own decisions and reactions either…

    Your basically argueing that Godzilla starts the fight from nanosecond 1 faceing in teh direction of this tiny human sized target and is already fireing at Kain. This is not the case. Given the seconds of charge up, Kain is already gone, possibly dozens if not hundreds of meters away, or worse, actually towards and on top of Godzilla. Who would not have any idea.

    “Have you proven that they are two separate beams?”

    my opposition has proven it for me. I outlined it earlier. We have a destructive blast that slowly bores into buildings and smahes over trucks. We have a propulsion breath and we have heat breath .

    “1) Kain can’t pierce Godzilla’s skin”

    Wheres your comparison of Kains pressure output and what Godzilla can tank?

    “Look it up”

    Nah I like to have my opposition provide the evidence for their claims. Some stills of a UFO mean nothing to me at all.


    @Friendly

    “he does not return from nothingness”

    Dematerlize to reformation….

    “And Godzilla has identified and singled out specific humans before? Multiple times?”

    Show me. Where was this posted? Singled out while their teleporting? no….singled out while their nothing but vapour? I doubt he could even distinguish kains vapour from the environment. Yet to see this…

    Has he ever actually fought anyone human sized?

  90. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 5:39 pm -      #790

    “we do not see his face until the beam is fired so you have no idea if he charged or not.”

    His charge has a very specific sound to it. We heard no charging up. Nor did we see his spines glowing, which we can see up his tail during the swing.

    “Prove their the same. I can see different breaths. They look different, they react to the environment different etc.”

    You kind of have to prove it. Not the other way around. The fact that different SFX are used for the same breath over the years is not a good argument.

  91. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 5:45 pm -      #791

    @Sauro

    ” We heard no charging up”


    Well their battle drowned it out. Two titanic creatures going at it is going to be noisy.

    “The fact that different SFX are used for the same breath over the years is not a good argument.”

    But the fact one melts, one blows up and one propels is.

  92. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 1, 2015 at 5:46 pm -      #792

    @Kitten
    “HA! if only sources being sufficient for the person making the claim was the point of providing proof. ”
    – Except Sauro agrees with me. And I gave you everything you need to look it up. Stop being a lazy asshole.

    “We just see his tail dude. You see his tail swing at the enemy, and a second or two later he shoots his beam. ”
    – correct me if I’m wrong (which I’m not), there are spikes on his tail, spikes that would have light up if he had charged up. The fact that they don’t glow, which they do when he charges his attack, implies what, kitten? Come on, you can do it!

    “You did not take into account frictional force or what not.”
    – Correct. If I include friction, actual speed, actual distance moved, and many other aspects, the Newtons needed would go up.

    “He did not just hit those buildings with hundreds of thousands of newtons because there is no clearing through them. ”
    – Here you are changing you context again. I am talking about the Monster X incident, kid. Stay on track.

    “You know, a scene not up to the whims of the players or CPU dodging and diving out of the way of teleportation. preferably a cutscene…thanks…”
    – Every fight is scripted, kid. You might not like it, but he has that ability. And Godzilla beat him with it.

    “What the beam that takes a second to even begin charging?”
    – Should I again link the video that showed him firing his beam with no charge time? Fuck, dude.

    “Your basically argueing that Godzilla starts the fight from nanosecond 1 faceing in teh direction of this tiny human sized target and is already fireing at Kain. This is not the case. Given the seconds of charge up, Kain is already gone, possibly dozens if not hundreds of meters away, or worse, actually towards and on top of Godzilla. Who would not have any idea.”
    – What is this fight? Godzilla can focus on human sized targets, not a problem. Godzilla can focus on teleporting opponents, not a problem. Moving hundreds of meters is fucking child’s play to Godzilla. None of the shit you said is even close to being relevant.

    “my opposition has proven it for me.”
    – False. You have to prove they are two different beams.

    “Wheres your comparison of Kains pressure output and what Godzilla can tank?”
    – Godzilla can tank a nuke going off in his face. The fact that Kain can hit a regular human and that human doesn’t explode implies kain’s striking power is less than a nuke, meaning he cannot hurt Godzilla.

  93. Friendlysociopath September 1, 2015 at 5:54 pm -      #793

    Should I again link the video that showed him firing his beam with no charge time?

    Find a few AMVs you like- if you have to show him at least find music you can enjoy while you watch Godzilla fire with no delay. Hell- I’m pretty sure against Mechagodzilla he fires it with no charge *while he’s falling down*.

    if only sources being sufficient for the person making the claim was the point of providing proof

    You’re right, providing evidence is not the same as proving something- which is why Kain takes 3 hits to break a wall and both him and Raziel can’t kick down a simple door. Which proves they aren’t nearly as strong as you’d like us to believe.

    Wheres your comparison of Kains pressure output and what Godzilla can tank?

    Considering Kain struggled to break a wall in a single blow and couldn’t kick down a door- easy enough comparison. He can’t so much as scratch Godzilla.
    Canon scripts are a bitch aren’t they?

    Dematerlize to reformation….

    Turns into a swarm of bats Kitten, it doesn’t matter what the real-world definition of something is when the game-world uses a different one. Ptaine has been pointing this out to you for like a solid month now.

    Kain turns into bats and then reforms- end of story. Was that really your gambit at coming back from nothing? Even his mist form isn’t “nothing”. Your whole bit of evidence for that is literally going from a definition? A definition the game itself invalidates?

    Well their battle drowned it out.

    You can see his tail Kitten- it has those same spikes that glow when charging. You’re really not a good loser are you?

  94. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 5:56 pm -      #794

    “Well their battle drowned it out. Two titanic creatures going at it is going to be noisy.”

    What the fucking fuck? Yes we would. We hear it over all that shit every other time Godzilla fights in Final Wars.

    “But the fact one melts, one blows up and one propels is.”

    … again, what the fucking fuck? Why? All he has to do is ramp up the power to get the effects he wants. Again, the main two you’re arguing, are over different depictions of his breath in different films.

  95. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 5:59 pm -      #795

    @Oh

    “Except Sauro agrees with me.”

    I do not care. Cough up the video or you have no source for your claim.

    “there are spikes on his tail”


    Their facing away from the camera and are shown for a split second. I do not know if the tiny spikes on his tail actually glow, can you show me this using that film?

    “the Newtons needed would go up.”

    Well no if you actually included the facts, like the fact the buildings he “went through” did not get smashed aside or leveled or that there was hardly even any debris from such an impact your claiming…

    ” I am talking about the Monster X incident”

    So am I.

    “Every fight is scripted”

    Prove it.

    “Should I again link the video”

    Make sure its a powerful beam and you can prove there was no charging. i want to actually see the whole of Godzilla..

    “Godzilla can tank a nuke going off in his face”

    When? the only nuke posted so far went off on the other side of a mountain Godzilla was behind. And this is not comparable in any way to a sword blow. Give me the pressure output that Godzilla was under.

    Do not just give me conjecture on how impressive you think the nuke was.

    “The fact that Kain can hit a regular human and that human doesn’t explode implies kain’s striking power is less than a nuke”

    Not at all. I cannot recall any point in Soul reaver or Defiance where Kain canonically strikes a human. He stabs moebius through the chest but that is about it.

    @Friendly

    ” it doesn’t matter what the real-world definition of something is when the game-world uses a different one”

    Notihng says he actually turns into bats or if he did, that they were material. There is no defintion in the game that redefines ours.

  96. Mea quidem sententia September 1, 2015 at 6:08 pm -      #796

    It says Kain “bursts into bats”. “Dematerialize” here must refer to “break apart”, just like the word used for Raziel is “dissolute”, although that word would be improper if you look it up. The proper word would be “dissipate”, but to dissipate doesn’t mean “to become free of physical substance”. It means “disperse or scatter”.

  97. Oh, Answerer Of The Unanswerable September 1, 2015 at 6:12 pm -      #797

    @Kitten
    “Cough up the video or you have no source for your claim.”
    – I already linked my source, kiddo.

    “Their facing away from the camera and are shown for a split second. I do not know if the tiny spikes on his tail actually glow, can you show me this using that film?”
    – Look at you, just trying to jump through hoops aren’tcha? They are facing the camera, the length they’re shown doesn’t matter (neon blue is generally very easy to spot), and the tiny spikes on his tail do glow. You want me to show you the tiny spikes glowing? Go watching the video Friendly posted, it shows his tail – in the beginning – glowing.

    “Well no if you actually included the facts, like the fact the buildings he “went through” did not get smashed aside or leveled or that there was hardly even any debris from such an impact your claiming…”
    Facepalm. Monster X didn’t go through a building. And the debris did get pushed aside, you just don’t see it because its focusing on Monster X as he is flying back.

    “Prove it.”
    – Prove that every fight is scripted? Well, need I mention the fact that most of the fights happen in the moves, or in comics, or books?

    “Make sure its a powerful beam and you can prove there was no charging.”
    – Here you go (again.) A montoge of most of Godzilla’s Atomic Breath, some with charging, some without it.

    “When?”
    – Godzilla: Awakening. I’m eating right now, but I’ll provide a scan (even though I’m 50% sure its already been given somewhere in this shitstorm.)

    “Not at all.”
    Alright, we’ll go with Friendly’s “Kain can’t break through a wall in a single hit” thing, then, doesn’t really matter.

  98. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 6:13 pm -      #798

    Dematerialize means lose physical substance. Whether he does become immaterial bats or their just a representation is an interesting question though.

  99. Sauroposeidon September 1, 2015 at 6:17 pm -      #799

    “Their facing away from the camera and are shown for a split second. I do not know if the tiny spikes on his tail actually glow, can you show me this using that film?”

    No, they weren’t facing away. Although when I think about it, I don’t know if they do in that film or not, actually glow. Regardless, there’s no charging sound, so I’m not going to bother trying to find a scene where it shows his tail during a charge up, as I don’t feel it matters one way or the other due to the obvious lack of any charge up sound.

    Which again, we’d clearly hear it.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwrqlzk1JnM

    Immediately before the Monster X arrives, Godzilla kills Ebirah and Hedorah after an unseen fight with them in Tokyo Bay.

    We can hear the charge up sound is even louder than his atomic ray sound effect.

  100. Kitten Lord September 1, 2015 at 6:22 pm -      #800

    @Oh


    “I already linked my source”


    Which I saw, hence why I asked for the video. Your source is not canon, its another forum/thread and someones interpretations. i want to see the actual canon material.

    ” the length they’re shown doesn’t matter ”

    Well it does, facing away and being on screen for a fraction of a second makes small spikes hard to notice.

    “You want me to show you the tiny spikes glowing?”

    Sure, I cant see it in that video because when he charges up to shoot meteor smoke covers his tail.

    “Facepalm. Monster X didn’t go through a building.”

    We can see the buildings after he passes through there. The camera pans and we see tons of debris on the ground, buildings, even shells of office blocks. None of which was apparently smashed to pieices by his movement.

    “Prove that every fight is scripted?”

    Yeah, lets see a cutscene as well.

    “ou go (again.) A montoge of most of Godzilla’s Atomic Breath, some with charging, some without it.”

    So which one of those is the “powerful one” that is also fast/without charging? Also love how King Kong gives him trouble…lol

    ” but I’ll provide a scan”

    No way, your actually going to provide a source yourself? Damn, wheres that hat, ill eat it if this happens!

    “Alright, we’ll go with Friendly’s”

    Friendly is trolling. There is no cutscene where he cannot break through a wall.

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Write yourself an email letter to the future - Future Me

Neil Degrasse Tyson

Star Talk Radio - As always, keep looking up!