Star Wars & Destiny Vs Halo & Star Trek

Star Wars & Destiny Vs Halo & Star Trek

Suggested by Starwalker

Two teams, Star Wars and Destiny face off against Halo and Star Trek.

Since Star Trek has the Q, to be fair, the Q will be removed.

However:
Star Wars cannot use the Force outside of their galaxies.
Destiny cannot use Krota or Atheon.
Halo cannot use the Halo Rings.

Which team would win?

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481 Comments on "Star Wars & Destiny Vs Halo & Star Trek"

  1. Tancalebner July 31, 2015 at 7:59 am -      #1

    In what time periods are each placed?

  2. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 8:12 am -      #2

    Since Trek has already beaten Wars on this site, what do Destiny and Halo add to their allies to make a difference?

  3. Darth Bombad July 31, 2015 at 8:19 am -      #3

    @Tancalebner
    Good question, and is it old Trek and Wars or new? because they both have
    been severely nerfed by their reboots, or as i like to call it they got Abbrams’d.

    So are we going all in, or are we just gonna stick with the current timelines?.

    @Kara
    Pretty sure that was all because of the Q, plus that was a long time ago.
    Back in the days when this site thought Superman vs Master Chief was a good fight.

  4. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 8:21 am -      #4

    Actually, I’ll just add, Trek beat Wars back when it had EU. It doesn’t seem to have Legacy feats in this match.
    _
    “In what time periods are each placed?”
    _
    Current incarnation most likely, which for Trek should still be end of Voyager, and for Wars, end of Episode 6 I guess, until 7 comes out.

  5. Rookie July 31, 2015 at 8:24 am -      #5

    It’s still too early for Destiny in universe vs universe matches. We know wayyyy too little about setting to judge IMO.

  6. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 8:29 am -      #6

    “Pretty sure that was all because of the Q, plus that was a long time ago.”
    _
    The Q were ruled out pretty early on, on page one. You honestly think with the Q intact that fight would be one of the longest in FP’s history? Wars has lost all of its best feats now it’s cannon has been reshuffled. Trek wins even easier now.

  7. AbsoluteZero July 31, 2015 at 8:32 am -      #7

    “Back in the days when this site thought Superman vs Master Chief was a good fight.”

    I occasionally go back and read that thread. It cheers me up. Weirdly.

    “USE THE FUEL ROD CANNON!”

  8. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 9:08 am -      #8

    “Current incarnation most likely, which for Trek should still be end of Voyager”

    except the latest startrek films have way altered the startrek timeline. I mean, they blew up vulcan, and can transport between planets. I kind of doubt events unfold in a similar enough way for voyager to occur.

  9. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 9:18 am -      #9

    “except the latest startrek films have way altered the startrek timeline. I mean, they blew up vulcan, and can transport between planets. I kind of doubt events unfold in a similar enough way for voyager to occur.”
    _
    Since the Q are specifically mentioned, I assumed it meant mainline Trek, not the AR reboot universe. As Q hasn’t shown to be apart of that universe.
    _
    If it is reboot Trek, then it would be Trek as of the end of Into Darkness.

  10. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 10:04 am -      #10

    “As Q hasn’t shown to be apart of that universe”

    While they have not been specifically shown, the Q existed in the star trek universe before the timeline split so they should be in both.

  11. AbsoluteZero July 31, 2015 at 10:12 am -      #11

    “While they have not been specifically shown, the Q existed in the star trek universe before the timeline split so they should be in both.”

    While true, and I agree, the existance of the Q or non-existance, doesn’t help in the match, seeing as they’re ruled out by match description.

  12. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 10:14 am -      #12

    That was not the point of bringing them up. We were just trying to determine which timeline star trek is in, the new one or the good one. Kara Zor-El assumed that it was the good one because the Q were banned, and i pointed out that they would be in both timelines and therefore would still need to be banned

  13. AbsoluteZero July 31, 2015 at 10:17 am -      #13

    @Ramkin

    Ah, well. Fair enough then. My mistake.

  14. Ninja Lowk July 31, 2015 at 10:25 am -      #14

    Krota’s dad likes to expand his force by sucking up other peoples forces in dimensional rifts, warping them, then spawn rifts wherever to deploy his newly controlled taken.
    One of the Fallen discovered a way to copy the Vex and summon hos forces from across tome.
    The Vex can convert a mercury sized planet into Vex stuff.
    Cabal have some kind of planet destruction, and I think planetary stasis.
    Guardians can canonically re-spawn from the most destructive of deaths as long as “light” isn’t drained from thier ghost or its destroyed.

    Thats about all I know. Need to re-read up on the grimiore.

  15. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 10:28 am -      #15

    “While they have not been specifically shown, the Q existed in the star trek universe before the timeline split so they should be in both.”
    _
    While technically true, the Q weren’t seen until TNG. My point was trying to determine which universe we’re using. Mention of Q lead me to think it was the mainline not Reboot. We’d really need some clarification.
    _
    “Thats about all I know. Need to re-read up on the grimiore.”
    _
    Good luck, there’s not exactly much in there. I’ve tried reading a bunch. Nothing much regarding feats iirc.

  16. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 10:31 am -      #16

    “We’d really need some clarification.”

    We really do, do you know who starwalker is, and if they are likely to turn up and give clarifications?

  17. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 10:58 am -      #17

    “We really do, do you know who starwalker is”
    _
    I don’t, and I don’t think I’ve seen him/her before. So I don’t know.

  18. Alpha or Omega July 31, 2015 at 11:10 am -      #18

    Destiny has no ship to ship based combat at all from what I seen while the other three do.
    Star Wars is kind of dragging dead weight.
    /
    @Ramkin
    Abrams has stated that his Star Trek is an alternate universe.
    We usually use the main one.
    /
    Can the Q even be affected by a split in the timeline given they’re powerful enough to create alternate timelines/universes?

  19. Ninja Lowk July 31, 2015 at 11:17 am -      #19

    “Destiny has no ship to ship based combat at all from what I seen while the other three do.”

    The awoken have a fleet and a ship I think was responsible for destroying an asteroid field. Other then that, they have something that fucks up a ships systems.

  20. batman3.14 July 31, 2015 at 11:29 am -      #20

    Isn’t Star Wars technology way way way above star trek’s and halo’s? I feel as if Star Wars can solo both.

  21. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 11:40 am -      #21

    “Isn’t Star Wars technology way way way above star trek’s and halo’s? I feel as if Star Wars can solo both.”
    _
    There’s an entire Trek vs Wars thread that would like to have a word with you about that xD

  22. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 2:26 pm -      #22

    Star Wars and Destiny, in my opinion, would win (although I have to admit Destiny is kind of useless).
    First of all, here’s a look at all of the superweapons Star Wars has:
    -Death Star
    -Death Star 2
    -Star Forge
    -Eclipse-class Star Destroyer
    -Mass Shadow Generator
    -Eye of Palpatine
    -Infinity Wave
    -Corsair
    -Ion Ring
    -Tarkin (not the person)
    -Interplanetary Ion Cannon
    -Centerpoint Station
    -Starkiller (not the person)
    -Infinity Stargates
    -Sun Razer
    -Planet Prison
    -Shock Drum
    -Death Mark Laser
    -Conqueror
    -Baradium Fission Device
    -Compostie Beam Supercharger
    -Cosmic Turbine
    -Dark Reaper
    -Desolator
    -Malovelence
    -Devastation
    -Gauntlet
    By the way, some of them only sound like they make sense if you put a “the” in front of the name.
    -Gravitic Polarization Beam
    -Kumauri Battleship
    -Omega Frost
    -Planechanga
    -Planet Killer
    -Resonance Torpedo Launcher
    -Shawken Device ( although it’s kind of suicidal)
    -Silencer
    -Anti-Matter Bomb
    -Visual Electromagnetic Intensifier
    -Two-Way Gravshock Device
    -Infant of Shaa
    -Trigon One
    -Hammer Station
    -Shadow Arsenal
    -Darkstaff
    -Darksaber
    -Galaxy Gun
    -Sun Crusher
    -World Devastator
    -Baradium Missile
    -Orbital Nightcloak
    -Sovereign-class Star Destroyer
    -Gravity Gun
    -Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter
    -Death Star Prototype

    That’s right. All 54 of these are superweapons in Star Wars. About half of them are capable of destroying a planet.
    _
    “We really do, do you know who starwalker is, and if they are likely to turn up and give clarifications?”
    _
    Hi. Sorry about it; I’m kind of new to this site. You want some clarifications?
    All technologies and races (except the ones listed above) are available to each team. They can travel to each other through a wormhole just outside each of their main galaxies.
    _
    ” Isn’t Star Wars technology way way way above star trek’s and halo’s? I feel as if Star Wars can solo both.”
    _
    I agree. Star Wars has atleast 100 quintillion civilians. Military force, you ask? The Star Wars military is made up of 5% droids. Since the separatist army consists of quintillion of droids, we’re looking at a total military force of about maybe 20-200 quintillion. Add it together and, let’s assume Star Wars has a military force of 100 quintillion, we get atleast 200 quintillion. Not to mention the land area: Star Wars consists of six known galaxies and a parallel universe, according to one of George Lucas’s statement’s describing of continuity but non-canon material. Some of the galaxies are dwarf galaxies, though, so total, we can make a reasonable estimate that all of Star Wars contuniuty has about 1.6 sextillion people, half willing to fight and most of the other half ready to defend.
    _
    Destiny is crap. I only putted it there to make it a fair 2 on 2.
    _
    In the entire Halo galaxy, they own only one fourth of the Orion Ring, therefore owning one twenty-eighth of a galaxy. As with population, both civ and military make up only about 5 trillion.
    Therefore:
    _
    Ratio of SW to Halo pop – 1(Halo) to 320 million (SW) approxiamately.
    _
    Just imagine one Spartan being annhilated by 320 stormtroopers!
    _
    “‘Isn’t Star Wars technology way way way above star trek’s and halo’s? I feel as if Star Wars can solo both.’
    _
    There’s an entire Trek vs Wars thread that would like to have a word with you about that xD”
    _
    Have you even read the Trek vs Wars thread. The only reason Trek won is because of the Q. L-W totally crushed Picard on the tech part. And, BTW:
    _
    “Since Star Trek has the Q, to be fair, the Q will be removed.”

    I could tell you more about how SW would solo the others, but I want to see the rebuttal statements.

    BTW don’t expect me to answer a lot. I have limited internet access at home.

  23. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 2:32 pm -      #23

    “that’s right. All 54 of these are superweapons”

    I would not really count the starforge as a weapon, it was a big ass factory.

    I take it starwars gets EU then.
    – – –
    “You want some clarifications?”

    Yes, We would like to know if this is good timeline startrek, or new timeline startrek.
    The new timeline being solely the new films.

    EU starwars vs reboot trek is not exactly the most ideal situation

  24. Aelfinn July 31, 2015 at 2:34 pm -      #24

    When many people think of Star Trek, they think of the Federation and the Klingons, when the real heavy-hitters are the Borg and Species 8472. The Borg will steal practically any tech you got, and Species 8472 casually blows up planets.

    However, in this fight, the real killer is the Genesis Device. It’s a device that can turn a dead world into a live one in a matter of minutes, or even life-wipe a world (and replace it with new life). Dangerous on its own, sure, but what makes it super-deadly is its combo with the Flood. The Federation could turn a dead moon or planet into a live one, and then allow the Flood total and complete access. This would allow the Flood quite a bit of resources that might just overwhelm anything on Team 1.
    =
    EDIT
    “Have you even read the Trek vs Wars thread. The only reason Trek won is because of the Q. L-W totally crushed Picard on the tech part. “

    Have you even read the end? Read the last few pages and you’ll see why Trek won, and it wasn’t because of the Q.

  25. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 2:37 pm -      #25

    Didn’t I clarified it in my above comment? I guess not to well. Sorry.

    All Star Wars continuity is allowed, except for EU written before April 24, 2014 that takes place after Episode 6, since it is contradicted by the movies.

    “I would not really count the starforge as a weapon, it was a big ass factory.”

    Number one, no cussing. I’m too young for that. Number two, true the forge was more of a factory, but it was more of a threat then the Death Stars were. Why do you think the Old Republic wondered how the heck Revan got his armada?

    “However, in this fight, the real killer is the Genesis Device. It’s a device that can turn a dead world into a live one in a matter of minutes, or even life-wipe a world (and replace it with new life).”

    Oh yeah? Research the World Devastators. Capable of literally eating planets, they use the resources from the consumed planets to create other stuff, such as more superwepons. And the flood? I’d like to see them mutate SW’s armada of droids from the Star Forge. Or even avoid eternal banishment from the Infinity Wave or Infinity Gates.

  26. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 2:38 pm -      #26

    There was an episode of Enterprise where they went to a space station for repairs. And the space station was capable of creating Near perfect copies of people. For some reason it couldn’t make them alive, but Borg nano probes routinely revive the long dead. Which means that if the Borg ever assimilated that factory, They would be able to produce literally infinite drones. of any species they liked

  27. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 2:43 pm -      #27

    “Number one, no cussing”

    1) I said ass, what person ever thinks ass is a curse word?
    Ass: -a hoofed mammal of the horse family, which is typically smaller than a horse and has longer ears and a braying call.

    2) Who the fudging bull shrimp, do you think you are? I can say any monkey fracking words i felateing well like, in any god darning order.

    So buck up or get the phalanx out.
    – – –
    “Didn’t I clarified it in my above comment? I guess not to well. Sorry.”

    AND OH MY GOD PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION.
    STARTREK – REBOOT OR NOT?

  28. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 2:45 pm -      #28

    “1) is said ass, what person ever thinks ass is a curse word?
    Ass: -a hoofed mammal of the horse family, which is typically smaller than a horse and has longer ears and a braying call.

    2) Who the fudging bull shrimp, do you think you are? I can say any monkey fracking words i felateing well like, in any god darning order.

    So buck up or get the phalanx out.”

    Well, it’s not allowed to be said in school, and it was a friendly suggestion, not a command.

  29. Aelfinn July 31, 2015 at 2:47 pm -      #29

    “Oh yeah? Research the World Devastators. Capable of literally eating planets, they use the resources from the consumed planets to create other stuff, such as more superwepons. And the flood? I’d like to see them mutate SW’s armada of droids from the Star Forge. Or even avoid eternal banishment from the Infinity Wave or Infinity Gates.”

    I know about the World Devastators. There’s nothing stopping them from being either blown up or assimilated by the Borg. Also, how does Star Wars have all these superweapons at once? Is this Composite Star Wars? Does that mean the other universes get composites? Let me tell you, that’s bad-news bears for Star Wars, because then Trek gets the Krenim Time Ship and you could argue that Halo gets the Forerunners.

  30. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 2:53 pm -      #30

    “Well, it’s not allowed to be said in school,”

    Then i would like you to screen shot this message and show it to your teachers.

    By banning certain words, for whatever reason, you are attempting to infringe on an entire generations freedom of expression. You are attempting to prevent people from expressing themselves and in doing so, not only are you breaking the law AND infringing on personal rights and freedoms, but you are also attempting to undermine civilisation as we know it.
    You, reading this, are no better than HITLER, or STALIN, or SKELETOR or any other dictator.
    Just think about that, YOU are as bad as SKELETOR.

  31. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 2:54 pm -      #31

    “There was an episode of Enterprise where they went to a space station for repairs. And the space station was capable of creating Near perfect copies of people. For some reason it couldn’t make them alive, but Borg nano probes routinely revive the long dead. Which means that if the Borg ever assimilated that factory, They would be able to produce literally infinite drones. of any species they liked”

    And then they get either melted from an Acclamator, incinerated or even glassed from an Imperial Star Destroyer(that’s right), Death Star blows it the planet they’re on up, supernova-ed by either the Sun Crusher or the Corsair, destroyed from a magnitude- 10 earthquake, consumed and created into a larger armada,……..
    Shall I continue?

    “Then i would like you to screen shot this message and show it to your teachers.

    By banning certain words, for whatever reason, you are attempting to infringe on an entire generations freedom of expression. You are attempting to prevent people from expressing themselves and in doing so, not only are you breaking the law AND infringing on personal rights and freedoms, but you are also attempting to undermine civilisation as we know it.
    You, reading this, are no better than HITLER, or STALIN, or SKELETOR or any other dictator.
    Just think about that, YOU are as bad as SKELETOR.”

    Sheesh. Alright. It’s just a REQUEST; you don’t have to do it or anything.

    “AND OH MY GOD PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION.
    STARTREK – REBOOT OR NOT?”
    Reboot.

  32. LadyRamkin July 31, 2015 at 2:56 pm -      #32

    I dont care how many die, there is an infinite number of them, you could kill a trillion trillion and there would still be an infinite number of them.
    – – –
    “Sheesh. Alright. It’s just a REQUEST; you don’t have to do it or anything.”

    I would have you know, that i am just messing with you, if that were not already apparent.

  33. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 2:57 pm -      #33

    “Have you even read the Trek vs Wars thread. The only reason Trek won is because of the Q. L-W totally crushed Picard on the tech part. And, BTW:”
    _
    Yes I have, and the Q were put aside very early on. I was part of the Trek side which secured the win for Trek. Also the great and powerful Aelfinn did a bunch of the leg work.
    _
    Considering the things you’re mentioning I’m guessing you mean for mainline Trek to be the one being discussed here?
    _
    Edit: “Hi. Sorry about it; I’m kind of new to this site. You want some clarifications?
    All technologies and races (except the ones listed above) are available to each team. They can travel to each other through a wormhole just outside each of their main galaxies.”

    _
    So it’s composite Wars/Destiny vs composite Trek/Halo?

  34. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 3:00 pm -      #34

    Why does my comment I’m trying to type keeps disappearing!

  35. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 3:03 pm -      #35

    I would have answered your above questions if it wasn’t because of this.
    One sec.

    “Have you even read the end? Read the last few pages and you’ll see why Trek won, and it wasn’t because of the Q.”

    Sorry. I didn’t. Let me check.

    “I dont care how many die, there is an infinite number of them, you could kill a trillion trillion and there would still be an infinite number of them.”

    Just like with the Star Forge and the Separitist army.

    “I would have you know, that i am just messing with you, if that were not already apparent.”

    Oh. Sorry.

  36. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 3:03 pm -      #36

    Ignore comment 34: I figured out why. Carry on!

  37. Aelfinn July 31, 2015 at 3:10 pm -      #37

    “Also the great and powerful Aelfinn did a bunch of the leg work”

    Oh my, no one’s ever called me great and powerful before. You’re giving me the vapors!
    =
    “Reboot.”

    I hope you understand the stomp you are making. You are leaving out most, if not all, of what makes Star Trek a viable combat opponent. If you are choosing the Abrams-verse, you are choosing the weaker one.

  38. Ninja Lowk July 31, 2015 at 3:11 pm -      #38

    “Destiny is crap. I only putted it there to make it a fair 2 on 2.”

    Maybe you forgot the part where they can suck up the enemy forces and turn them to thier side with space magic. Or the casual time traveling that can refresh thier forces.
    Imagine if every single person on star war’s side could never truely be killed. Imagine legions of ressurected jedi and sith instantly respawn, vaporize people with a gesture, create invunerable pocket of space, or teleport.
    Star wars could never lose its man/droid-power and they could hide/lock places outside of time.
    ===
    Lol, BankGambling wants me to prove Im human by doing math.

  39. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 3:14 pm -      #39

    I’m going to go by all tech and races to mean composite then. So Trek have undetectable cloaks. Can make every torpedo bust a star. Have hax time travel tech. The Borg who would just assimilate entire planets. I mean imagine this.
    _
    Match starts and a Borg Cube is instantly above every major SW planet, via time travel back to the start of the Match. Only, you can’t see it or detect it. It pumps millions of drones onto not only the planet but every ship in range in system. All those super weapons? Match starts, and before they actually know what’s happening a ship has appeared, and is undetectable, and has beamed Borg onto said super weapon and assimilated it.
    _
    Transphasic torpedoes that can 1 short Borg cubes, usually able to shrug off entire fleets worth of weaponary. See those shiny SD’s? Well they’ve been popped. SSD’s? Super weapons? Popped. How? Well the Borg can bypass shields and beam in Transphasisic torpedoes, directly into ships and stations, and boom. They’re undetectable too thanks to hax cloaking.
    _
    Voyager’s End Game Ablative Hull armour can tank multiple shots from Borg weapons that usually one shot Trek ships. So even if by some miracle they were detected, not sure a few barrages of turbolasers would damage the ship before they’ve popped everything in range.
    _
    I mean, I’m not seeing how Wars or Destiny win.

  40. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 3:16 pm -      #40

    @Lowk
    _
    While… Fuck the Vex, Trek time travel can be just as hax.

  41. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 3:21 pm -      #41

    “Maybe you forgot the part where they can suck up the enemy forces and turn them to thier side with space magic. Or the casual time traveling that can refresh thier forces.
    Imagine if every single person on star war’s side could never truely be killed. Imagine legions of ressurected jedi and sith instantly respawn, vaporize people with a gesture, create invunerable pocket of space, or teleport.
    Star wars could never lose its man/droid-power and they could hide/lock places outside of time.”

    Forgot that. Thanks.

    To be honest, I’m feeling kind of a noob right now.

    ON the ST vs SW thing, I’m about halfway on the third to last page.

  42. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 31, 2015 at 3:31 pm -      #42

    K, so:

    EU Star Wars, but nothing post Episode VI that’s written before April 24, 2014

    Star Trek reboot.

    What incarnations are Halo and Destiny(assuming they have incarnations?). Since you’re making Star Trek reboot(which seems infinitely nerfed and I’ve only ever watched TNG)can Halo at least have Forerunners? To balance that out?

    Won’t really participate(my Halo-nese is heavily outdated and forgotten), but I figure TMWTA will pop in and debate heavily for Halo

  43. Starwalker July 31, 2015 at 3:38 pm -      #43

    Sorry, I got to leave.

    “don’t expect me to answer a lot. I have limited internet access at home.”

  44. Aelfinn July 31, 2015 at 4:04 pm -      #44

    “To be honest, I’m feeling kind of a noob right now.”

    Happens to the best of us.

  45. Xornell July 31, 2015 at 5:25 pm -      #45

    Stop the debate. Installed Windows 10
    Boner is reaching critical mass. It’s all over, boys.

  46. deathmetal3k July 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm -      #46

    Well I can defend Halo decently till TMWA gets here, and I know a good amount of info on Destiny. Star Wars and Star Trek, aside form the obvious, I’m not very well versed in.

    And I still can’t figure how the f*** to change my damn Icon. I don’t like this little dude with sunglasses.

  47. Xornell July 31, 2015 at 6:02 pm -      #47

    “And I still can’t figure how the f*** to change my damn Icon. I don’t like this little dude with sunglasses.”

    Gravitar, boss. Make a thing and upload a thing. The snarkier the better.

  48. Ninja Lowk July 31, 2015 at 6:08 pm -      #48

    “Stop the debate. Installed Windows 10
    Boner is reaching critical mass. It’s all over, boys.”

    It isn’t that good. Wait nevermind, just realized they got rid of that crappy homescreen. As you were.
    ===
    Awoken Queen fucks up the House of Wolves fleet

    The Wolf Kell, practical, brave, tallies strength of metal and equipment. The Kell considers the chance that the Awoken have some secret weapon, something gleaned from hulks in the Reef or whispered up by the witches, and sets that chance aside. The Kell thinks the House of Wolves can win decisively. So the Kell sends challenge and warning. I AM LORD OF WOLVES, the Kell sends. YOU ARE AN EMPTY THING WITH TWO DEAD SOULS. THIS IS MY HOUSE. THESE ARE MY TERMS. SURRENDER AND I WILL ONLY TAKE YOUR SHIPS.

    The Awoken fleet cuts their engines. Drifts. Wolf strike elements, torpedo-armed Skiffs hidden under jamming and camouflage, find their firing solutions.

    The Queen’s ship broadcasts. I AM NOBLE TOO, she says, OH LORD OF WOLVES.

    The Kell doesn’t mind a little banter before the kill. It gives the Wolf ships longer to draw the battle away from Ceres. The Kell replies. YOU HAVE NO LINE. YOU HAVE NO POWER. Captains and Barons signal their readiness, Skolas and Pirsis and Irxis, Drevis, Peekis, Parixas, all of them bound by fear and loyalty, all ready for war.

    STARLIGHT WAS MY MOTHER. The Queen’s ship whispers in eerie erratic radio bursts. Servitors begin to report a strange taste in the void. AND MY FATHER WAS THE DARK.

    Here, at last, too late, the Kell begins to feel fear. CALL ON THEM, THEN, the Kell sends, one last mocking signal before death and ruin, AND SEE WHAT HELP THEY OFFER.

    So the Queen calls, as only she can. Every Servitor in every Ketch hears it. Every Captain and Baron roars at their underlings as sensors go blind, as firing solutions falter, as reactors stutter and power systems hum with induction. Stealth fails. Space warps. The House of Wolves shouts in spikes of war-code, maneuvers wild, fires blind.

    Behind the Queen’s ship, the Harbingers awaken.

  49. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 6:47 pm -      #49

    Wait, you’re using vague grimoire stories as feats? Tell me you’re not using vague grimoire stories as feats.

  50. Tyran July 31, 2015 at 6:57 pm -      #50

    Star Trek interstellar teleportation + Flood = horrible things to Star Wars.

    No idea about Destiny.

  51. Ninja Lowk July 31, 2015 at 6:58 pm -      #51

    “Wait, you’re using vague grimoire stories as feats? Tell me you’re not using vague grimoire stories as feats.”

    That was a feat from the grimoire, The rest of the pretty much were in-game events.
    And what was wrong with that feat? It’s not like I gave that thing about whatever hell was happening in that Vex story.

    You do realize not every grimoire story is vague, some are just simple who, what, where, and why. Most of the house of wolves stuff was pretty much background lore. That one is fairly simple interaction dealing with part of how The awoken dealt with the house of wolves.

  52. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 7:04 pm -      #52

    There’s no actual info on anything in that ‘feat’ there. “The Queen calls” How? “Stealth fails” how? “Space warps” how? It’s all fluff. The grimoire is fluff, and weird. Some of it is cool, some of it is freaky, some of it, mainly Vex cards seem to make no sense. Did you read the Vex AI cards where they made copies of copies within copies of a copy, in the mind of a single vex, and then they, the real ones, planted the copies and the copies with the copies into a Vex thing? It all sounds good, but there’s nothing really substantial in there.
    _
    We know she beat them, but there’s no how in there. The how are the feats.
    _
    It also annoyed me how the grimoire wasn’t accessible in game… I mean why not? Ugh. I searched for all the dead ghosts too. God The Taken King is gonna be such a grind for that xD

  53. deathmetal3k July 31, 2015 at 7:11 pm -      #53

    Well I’ll add this.

    If the Flood are allowed to get to their top power, then Star War and Destiny are fucked since at their top they have access to Precursor Space Magic, aka control of Neural Physics. They were able to stop Forerunner weaponry remotely, and even make it so the Forerunners were unable to use slipspace because they changed it so slipspace was basically incompatible with their reality in sense.

    The Diact even said “How did we ever manage to defeat them?” In reference to the Precursor, when they saw the Flood wielding only fraction of their power.

  54. Ninja Lowk July 31, 2015 at 7:50 pm -      #54

    “The Queen calls” How?”

    Wouldn’t be the only time someone does bullshit space magic. One of Krota’s parts(?) can sing you to death.
    Given the mention of he servitors feeling void and that void it is either someone, or more likely her ship; using void energy to fuck up their tech.
    ===
    “Stealth fails”how?”

    As noted earlier, they were cloaked.
    ===
    “Space warps” how?”

    space magic, but that part is really useful.
    ===
    “mainly Vex cards seem to make no sense.”

    The only thing I ever got from the Vex cards was the reason some of the stuff does what it does. The gorgan fuck you over becasue they warp reality; boom I’m out. Everything else hurt my brain thinking about it.
    I think the copy thing is a reference to something about Simulation hypothesis or something.
    ===
    “It also annoyed me how the grimoire wasn’t accessible in game… I mean why not?”

    It’s all about the app. Which is nice considering I can access my vault while still playing. But the card not being in game is just stupid.
    ===
    “I searched for all the dead ghosts too.”

    Fuck that, I just spent two horrible days solving all of riddlers clues; collectibles suck. I’ll wait till wikis post them all online.

  55. Kara Zor-El July 31, 2015 at 8:18 pm -      #55

    That;s the problem with Destiny. How does any of this do… Oh, Space Magic? Sure okay… And this? Space Magic. Space Magic and, oh, wouldn’t you know? Space Magic. After Bungie’s pedigree with Halo I was really expecting a decent enough story. Not… nothing.
    _
    “It’s all about the app. Which is nice considering I can access my vault while still playing. But the card not being in game is just stupid.”
    _
    Which is terrible! I use a third party app these days to do everything. Destiny Item Manager v3, it’s a chrome plugin/app. Works wonderfully.
    _
    “Fuck that, I just spent two horrible days solving all of riddlers clues; collectibles suck. I’ll wait till wikis post them all online.”
    _
    Fuck Rocksteady. I’ve got all the collectibles in every game now! They weren’t overly hard, just a griiiiiind! Knight’s were easier than City’s imo. Why do I have this compulsion to find all collectibles >.>

  56. Darth Bombad July 31, 2015 at 8:28 pm -      #56

    @deathmetal3k
    “If the Flood are allowed to get to their top power, “
    That just allowed them use the already existing but dormant Precursor tech.
    Which was all destroyed by the firing of the Halo array, it can’t really help them now.
    And the Flood are pure PIS, no ones just gonna sit back and let them spread.

  57. GrandMaster July 31, 2015 at 8:52 pm -      #57

    While I do believe that a composite EU Star Wars would defeat a Composite Star Trek, the current Trek beats New EU Star Wars. Halo, assuming current timeline, is an annoyance but without the Flood and the Rings they lack the hax, the firepower, or the manpower to stand up to Star Wars. Destiny is useless here.

  58. Alpha or Omega July 31, 2015 at 8:58 pm -      #58

    Did he say composite Halo or not?
    /
    Because he literally said Abrams Trek and Composite Star Wars.
    /
    This is now an instant stomp because the reason why main Trek verse won against outside of the Q was fire power, teleportation into ships, Borg and dimensional beings popping in and out to destroy a planet with 9 ships.
    /
    Composite Star Wars are pretty much the ones annihilating (Abrams) Star Trek now with.
    /
    The only thing defeating a composite Star Wars would be the Forerunners at their peak and the Precursors.
    (Destiny is still on the sidelines IMO tho unless there’s something obscure I’m really missing)

  59. GrandMaster July 31, 2015 at 9:02 pm -      #59

    “The only thing defeating a composite Star Wars would be the Forerunners at their peak and the Precursors.
    (Destiny is still on the sidelines IMO tho unless there’s something obscure I’m really missing)”

    Composite Star Wars has stuff strong enough to beat them. And without the rings the Forerunners are a lot less dangerous. So much so that the Galactic Empire should match them. And they are far from the most powerful faction in SW.

  60. deathmetal3k July 31, 2015 at 9:05 pm -      #60

    @Darth Bombad

    This is a Universe match, meaning all factions work together. So the Halo and Star Trek Universes could initially Guevara the Flood biomass and allow them to reach their higher stages without having to infect any enemy troops. Or simply the the midst of a battle, airdrop thousands of flood spores, infections forms, and combat forms on the enemy.


    Once at their heightened stages nothing from Star Wars, and much less destiny would be capable of stoping them.

    Also what precursor artifacts did they use to achieve these goals? The precursor knowledge to interact with Nueral Physics is already pre programmed in their DNA thanks to them basically being Precursors.

  61. deathmetal3k July 31, 2015 at 9:07 pm -      #61

    @Grandmaster

    The GE vs Forerunner thread says hi. The Forerunner defeat the GE in a one on one, even with EU an at the height of their power.

  62. Alpha or Omega July 31, 2015 at 9:07 pm -      #62

    “While I do believe that a composite EU Star Wars would defeat a Composite Star Trek,”
    /
    There was no counter to Species 8472 jumping in and out of a dimension with fire power to blow up a planet with only 9 ships. That gives a ton of power for just a single ship.
    Then, there’s the Krenim Timeship that can smite planetary surfaces of people out of existence.
    But, I digress since they’re not in this match.
    /
    “the current Trek beats New EU Star Wars.”
    /
    Actually Abrams Trek specified by OP here.
    /
    “Halo, assuming current timeline, is an annoyance but without the Flood and the Rings they lack the hax, the firepower, or the manpower to stand up to Star Wars.”
    /
    …Does current Star Wars have anything for biggatons aside from the Death Star?
    The only thing you can stretch for Star Wars was a Clone Trooper stating 50 megaton nukes from the confederates.
    /
    “Destiny is useless here.”
    /
    Yep.

  63. GrandMaster July 31, 2015 at 9:23 pm -      #63

    “@Grandmaster
    The GE vs Forerunner thread says hi. The Forerunner defeat the GE in a one on one, even with EU an at the height of their power.”

    I didn’t read that entire thread it devolved into flaming in the first 1,000 posts. But the 2 main reasons I’ve seen for the Forerunners beating the GE was the Rings, which I agree with the Rings the Forerunners stomp. Three second Reaosn was that the Forerunners have trillions and trillions of ships. Which has been claimed by many, but has no direct quotes claiming it in the book and the numbers given in the fleet battles totally offset that statistic, which, leads me to believe they aren’t accurate.

    “There was no counter to Species 8472 jumping in and out of a dimension with fire power to blow up a planet with only 9 ships. That gives a ton of power for just a single ship.
    Then, there’s the Krenim Timeship that can smite planetary surfaces of people out of existence.
    But, I digress since they’re not in this match.”

    That was the main Star Wars factions. People like the Rakata (built the Star Forge and had the capacity to build more of them), the Celestials (capable of solar system construction, cosmological tampering on a Galactic scale, incredibly powerful (think Abeloth level) force users, and supposedly Omniscent), The Kwi (created structures capable of instant transportation and planetary destruction from anywhere), and the Super Force users, which can be mass produced. These guys should be able to match the Borg and Species 8274.

  64. Ninja Lowk July 31, 2015 at 9:28 pm -      #64

    “That;s the problem with Destiny. How does any of this do… Oh, Space Magic? Sure okay… And this? Space Magic. Space Magic and, oh, wouldn’t you know? Space Magic.”

    To be fair, Destiny is basically Fantasy cosplaying as science-fiction. At least imo. Is science fantasy a genre?
    ===
    “After Bungie’s pedigree with Halo I was really expecting a decent enough story. Not… nothing.”

    Thing is, some of the stories in the grimiore are good. From a debate standpoint not so much but I found myself liking what I could understand (like Cyde 6’s story). I even get the mysterious angle; slow build ups are annoying but sometimes they can be worthwhile.
    They just need to connect it to the game and add a video element. That or just do a full on novel.
    ===
    “Destiny is still on the sidelines IMO tho unless there’s something obscure I’m really missing”

    Casual time fuckery that allows for pulling lost people back into the present.
    Locking places out of time with guards that can reality warp you dead if they see you.
    Transdimensional aduction and control of enemy personal.
    A creature that can kill by singing. Who can teleport.
    If the Cabal ever get thier own dlc we might find out how they destroy planets that get in thier way.

    Essentially Destiny makes for good supporting force.

  65. Alpha or Omega July 31, 2015 at 10:10 pm -      #65

    “I didn’t read that entire thread it devolved into flaming in the first 1,000 posts. But the 2 main reasons I’ve seen for the Forerunners beating the GE was the Rings, which I agree with the Rings the Forerunners stomp. Three second Reaosn was that the Forerunners have trillions and trillions of ships. Which has been claimed by many, but has no direct quotes claiming it in the book and the numbers given in the fleet battles totally offset that statistic, which, leads me to believe they aren’t accurate.”
    /
    No, it was because of their bs physics defying manufacturing and deployment speed given in novels. Because of their production rates, ONE factory can produce 201,600 Onyx Sentinels in 2 weeks.
    Now with several factories…
    /
    “That was the main Star Wars factions. People like the Rakata (built the Star Forge and had the capacity to build more of them), the Celestials (capable of solar system construction, cosmological tampering on a Galactic scale, incredibly powerful (think Abeloth level) force users, and supposedly Omniscent), The Kwi (created structures capable of instant transportation and planetary destruction from anywhere), and the Super Force users, which can be mass produced. These guys should be able to match the Borg and Species 8274.”
    /
    The Krenim Timeship was not part of current Trek and they still won against EU Star Wars.
    I don’t think you understand the fire power.
    It takes 9 ships to bust a planet.
    1/9 of that is capable of wrecking anything Star Wars has in durability.
    They can have ships coming in from anywhere with dimension jumping and hit any keypoint or major locations in Star Wars.
    The Celestials are mostly featless.
    Star Wars also had no method of getting into the Species 8472’s dimension.
    /
    This is not including ridiculous stuff as an entire universe converting from mass to energy

  66. Tyran August 1, 2015 at 12:32 am -      #66

    One of reasons the Forerunners defeated the GE is industry. The Forerunners build things in a far larger scale.

    But with the absurd amount of FTL ships in Star Wars, the Flood will do horrible things to them.

  67. UnjustVendetta August 1, 2015 at 12:32 am -      #67

    Lemme just make sure I’m getting this right here… Composite Star Wars and Destiny vs. Abrams Star Trek and Composite Halo?

    Because even with the super nerfed Star Trek… Composite Halo seems pretty op. Forerunner production is just absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention they get Offensive Bias. The new Star Trek seems like pretty dead weight though.

    Though, they do have that red matter stuff. Seemed like a small amount of it was enough to cause a large enough singularity to consume an entire planet. If they could figure out a means to use that as an effective weapon… Combined with the ridiculous production potential of the Forerunners… Red matter missiles? I dunno. Would be super risky. But something to consider.

  68. Tyran August 1, 2015 at 12:40 am -      #68

    Red matter delivered through Slipspace. Instant black hole with atomic precision!

  69. Alpha or Omega August 1, 2015 at 1:02 am -      #69

    @UnjustVendetta
    He didn’t mention anything about composite Halo.
    His posts kinda largely imply Composite Star Wars by listing the big guns for Star Wars and he outright said Abrams Trek.
    /
    Doesn’t look 2gud4 team2.
    /
    @Lowk
    “Is science fantasy a genre?”
    /
    I think it may be a sub-genre.

  70. UnjustVendetta August 1, 2015 at 2:12 am -      #70

    It’s probably a stomp in favor of team 2 if it’s composite Halo anyway. Forerunner production levels… *shivers*

    But without composite Halo and Abrams ST… Prolly a stomp in favor of team 1. Unless that red matter can be used in some creative way… I don’t see team 2 winning in this scenario. Assuming composite SW.

    Would have to give more thought if it’s not composite SW though. Sucks that destiny doesn’t really have anything solid to go off of. Because they’re pretty much not even here for all intents and purposes. Unless there’s something I’m missing about them.

    Oh yeah, composite SW also has every force user ever. Which is pretty dumb. From EU Emperor force storms to Nihlus draining planets of life to Bastilla and her battle meditation. Not entirely sure how much it’ll matter depending on the scenarios. But, worth mentioning as I don’t see it being mentioned prior.

  71. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets August 1, 2015 at 2:32 am -      #71

    “All technologies and races (except the ones listed above) are available to each team.”

    So, Precursors and Forerunners for Halo. Yay.

  72. UnjustVendetta August 1, 2015 at 2:48 am -      #72

    Just noticed, says that SW can’t use the force outside of their own universe. So… defensive uses of the force but not offensive it seems.

    I mean, but at what point in the Halo Universe do we get the Forerunners? Current iteration has like… 2 of them left. Or we are we going with them at the top of their game?

  73. Alpha or Omega August 1, 2015 at 2:48 am -      #73

    Actually, he says on post 25 that any EU taking place after Episode 6 that was written before April 24, 2014 is not allowed.
    My bad.
    /
    “So, Precursors and Forerunners for Halo. Yay.”
    /
    Took me 12 minutes to look for it.
    Third paragraph.
    So….Halo is now the leading the way for team 2.
    Precursors who can move several solar systems or a galaxy.
    And the Forerunners, with mass production.
    Oi.

  74. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 2:57 am -      #74

    You guys are selling Destiny way short.

    To start off with, if we’re include all of Destiny, the Hive’s Crota is literally unkillable in our world. He killed thousands of Guardians (that is to say, he killed thousands of infinitely respawning enemies) until they gave up the moon. A planet with Crota on it is a Planet in which Destiny wins.

    Second, you have the Vex, who totally fuck everything. Let’s start with the Templar and his oracles. According to the Grimoire, The Oricles “The Oracles foresee what is to come, a world as the Vex desire it – and the Templar has the power to shape reality to match the Oracles’ design, expunging any threats” this is backed by the Templar’s ability to just instantly kill anyone with its vicinity (we’ll say it’s an AoE.) And he, too, is completely invincible due to the fact that no one is going to give the enemy factions the Aegis, the only thing that can bring down the Templar’s shield. Then there’s the Gorgons which erase things they look at (“Whatever they perceive becomes subject to erasure at their will.”) The Gorgons are much easier to deal with because they are reduced to only erasing what they can see. Oh, and let’s not forget Qodron the Gate Lord, which can trap enemies in bubbles and (again) erase them from reality.

    The Fallen and Cabal are pretty tame comparatively… but you have to remeber that the Fallen are using directed energy weapons the likes of which haven’t been seen before and the Cabal? Well, they use balistic weapons, sure… but their balisitc weapons are insanely powerful. Their most basic weapon fire bullets that.. well, here, from the Grimoire “Each round is a microrocket capable of efficient operation in varying environmental and gravitational conditions. Standard issue warheads mount a duplex explosive that combines an armor-piercing penetrator with a flesh-shredding shrapnal bus.” That’s the weakest weapon the Cabal have.

    But, yeah, even without infinitely spawning Guardians, between the invincible Hive, the Invincible, reality warping Vex (Templar) and the [mortal] reality warping Vex, I have to give it to Destiny. Even Halo, with the Forerunner’s and Precursors, can’t beat that (unless we’re allowing for the Halo Array to be in, then what’s the point?)

  75. UnjustVendetta August 1, 2015 at 4:08 am -      #75

    @Sokogeki
    “Hive’s Crota is literally unkillable”

    Care to explain that? You said in our world. Does that mean on Earth? In our dimension? And unkillable doesn’t necessarily mean all that much if it’s only present on the ground. Which I’m assuming is the case. Ground forces really won’t be much of a factor imo. Forerunners, Precursors, etc. really have no reason to ever touch the ground when they can just bombard from orbit.

    “Templar has the power to shape reality to match the Oracles’ design, expunging any threats”

    Does the Templar just undo threats before they become threats? Or is this just prose to state that the Templar will kill anything that it comes across? Because when you later say that it can instakill anything close to it(which we can’t really accept as an auto instakill against anything it ever encounters) it makes me think that the quote is really just telling us the Templar is a badass and not that it actually has reality warping abilities.

    “the Gorgons which erase things they look at”

    “Qodron the Gate Lord, which can trap enemies in bubbles and (again) erase them from reality.”

    I take it the Gorgons and this Qodron are ground based units? And you mention that the Gorgons are limited to their sight… Can they erase starships from the ground? Or from within another ship I suppose? And what are the size of these bubbles and the distance at which he can use them? Because… It looks like Destiny is just limited to being on the ground… While everyone else has space ships…

    “energy weapons the likes of which haven’t been seen before”

    Seen before in their universe/galaxy. The Covenant regularly glass planets/parts of planets from orbit. Anything on that scale?

    Granted, I’ll say that if the fight ever gets down to the nitty gritty on a planet’s surface… It looks like the units from Destiny would be extremely strong. But as I said before… Halo and ST have almost no reason to ever do that.

  76. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 4:31 am -      #76

    @UnjustVendetta
    “Care to explain that? You said in our world. Does that mean on Earth? In our dimension?”
    In our dimension. As I said in that comment he only appeared on the moon (the Light of the Traveler kept him off Earth.)

    “And unkillable doesn’t necessarily mean all that much if it’s only present on the ground. Which I’m assuming is the case. Ground forces really won’t be much of a factor imo. Forerunners, Precursors, etc. really have no reason to ever touch the ground when they can just bombard from orbit.”
    Unkillable doesn’t mean much if its only on the ground? But.. bombarding him will do nothing… they’d have no work around for something like Crota (or Oryx, really.) But space battles are an oddity, yeah? Destiny has to have them, seeing as how the Hive were able to destroy (or, at the very least, heavily damage) a Warmind which are satellites of some sort.

    “Does the Templar just undo threats before they become threats? Or is this just prose to state that the Templar will kill anything that it comes across? Because when you later say that it can instakill anything close to it(which we can’t really accept as an auto instakill against anything it ever encounters) it makes me think that the quote is really just telling us the Templar is a badass and not that it actually has reality warping abilities.”
    From reading the card, and playing the game, it would appear that something has to be designated as a threat before the Oracles give the signal for its destruction. But, because normally the Templar is only kept in the Vault of Glass, its impossible to actually say what its range is. I am interested in hearing how you think it can only instakill certain things, though. The card (and the game) make it quite clear the Templar and the Oracles reshape reality.

    “I take it the Gorgons and this Qodron are ground based units? And you mention that the Gorgons are limited to their sight… Can they erase starships from the ground? Or from within another ship I suppose?”
    It’s implied that if the Gorgon sees it, it can erase it. It would stand to reason the scale or distance from it would matter little. But, even if we say something like it can only erase a human-sized object (or piece of hull) that would be enough to finish a ship.

    “And what are the size of these bubbles and the distance at which he can use them? Because… It looks like Destiny is just limited to being on the ground… While everyone else has space ships…”
    Size of the bubbles is somewhat hard to determine. They have a radius of about 1 and 1/2 Guardians, so about 9 feet give or take. Range is, again, hard to even speculate on. He stands in the center of a room approximately 100 meters long and can summon his bubbles no matter where you stand in the room. Destiny isn’t limited to ground battle, though. The Awoken have some crazy space weapons (Harbingers, Carbys (spelled that wrong)) plus the Warminds themselves which literally “split the sky open.”

    “Seen before in their universe/galaxy. The Covenant regularly glass planets/parts of planets from orbit. Anything on that scale?”
    Comparing plasma to Arc/Solar/Void energy is inherently flawed. Plasma can be measured, we measure it, but Arc/Solar/Void? Nope. If we take descriptions for subclasses into account, Arc energy is basically manipulating the forces that bind matter. How strong is that? I don’t know.

    “Granted, I’ll say that if the fight ever gets down to the nitty gritty on a planet’s surface… It looks like the units from Destiny would be extremely strong. But as I said before… Halo and ST have almost no reason to ever do that.”
    We’re going to see some more space battles with the Taken King, given that is takes place on a dreadnought. But, yeah, Destiny has plenty of space-based attacks/units.

  77. UnjustVendetta August 1, 2015 at 5:07 am -      #77

    @Sokogeki

    “In our dimension. As I said in that comment he only appeared on the moon”

    So… do we have any proof he’s immortal within our dimension? You’re referencing these Grimoire, are those stories?

    “But.. bombarding him will do nothing…”

    Except destroy the planet he’s standing upon… Leaving him floating in space… Or sucking him into a blackhole with the red matter…

    “Destiny has to have them, seeing as how the Hive were able to destroy (or, at the very least, heavily damage) a Warmind which are satellites of some sort.”

    But that’s precisely my point. They have space battles. Maybe. But what exactly can their ships DO? How many ships do they have to offer? How many ships can they make in a period of time?

    “From reading the card, and playing the game, it would appear that something has to be designated as a threat before the Oracles give the signal for its destruction. But, because normally the Templar is only kept in the Vault of Glass, its impossible to actually say what its range is. I am interested in hearing how you think it can only instakill certain things, though. The card (and the game) make it quite clear the Templar and the Oracles reshape reality.”

    But if the Oracles can see the future… Wouldn’t they be able to designate a threat well in advance? So we’re left with one of the following: the Templar cannot remove enemies that are not within a close enough range, the Templar and the Oracles decide for whatever reason that they can’t be bothered to remove threats before they’re directly in front of them, or that they really don’t have reality warping powers. And I say we can’t assume auto one shot because what if something has resistance to reality warping for example? Not entirely sure if ST or Halo has anything that can. Can’t remember atm.

    “It’s implied that if the Gorgon sees it, it can erase it. It would stand to reason the scale or distance from it would matter little. But, even if we say something like it can only erase a human-sized object (or piece of hull) that would be enough to finish a ship.”

    So, if a ship is far enough away… Or moving fast enough… It wouldn’t be able to do anything at all because it wouldn’t be able to see anything… Yes? And removing a human sized piece of hull might destroy a small ship… But the larger ones can easily survive losing that small of a chunk.

    “Size of the bubbles is somewhat hard to determine. They have a radius of about 1 and 1/2 Guardians, so about 9 feet give or take. Range is, again, hard to even speculate on. He stands in the center of a room approximately 100 meters long and can summon his bubbles no matter where you stand in the room.”

    So we’ve seen 10 foot wide bubbles of matter removal. At about 100 meter range. I know the range is probably not the max range. But, again, we don’t know effective range or size of these bubbles.

    “Awoken have some crazy space weapons (Harbingers, Carbys (spelled that wrong)) plus the Warminds themselves which literally “split the sky open.””

    What do Harbingers and Carbys(sic) do then? Literally splitting the sky open? Could mean LOTS of things. Reality warping to rip a hole through time and space in a portion of the sky? What are we talking here?

    “Comparing plasma to Arc/Solar/Void energy is inherently flawed. Plasma can be measured, we measure it, but Arc/Solar/Void? Nope. If we take descriptions for subclasses into account, Arc energy is basically manipulating the forces that bind matter. How strong is that? I don’t know.”

    Fair enough, the comparison is flawed. But it’s about all we can do, isn’t it? Because you admittedly do not know what those weapons can do. So I’m trying to compare it’s destructive power. What is the most we’ve seen these weapons do?

    “But, yeah, Destiny has plenty of space-based attacks/units.”

    Care to list them and what they can do? Halo, ST, and SW are all pretty well known for the most part. We have a pretty good idea of what their ships can do. But Destiny? I don’t think any of us really has a clue as to what they can do. Maybe their ships are actually pretty op and will tip this in team 1’s favor.

    My problem with Destiny is that it just seems to lack feats… Maybe I’m wrong and there’s way more information than I think. Or maybe Bungie will add on to the lore and give us some more numbers and information.

  78. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 6:06 am -      #78

    ” the Hive’s Crota is literally unkillable in our world.”
    _
    Except he is, and very easily at that. Crota’s Soul, the crystal thing? Extremely easily taken out by a single Guardian. Destroy that and he can’t be reawoken, or revived. Either way Eris Morn says ” Crota’s soul is banished.”. making Crota a non factor.
    _
    Or we can take the fact that in Crota’s End is a pretty soloable raid. For some people sure, but that still means 1 Guardian can kill Crota, and I do mean Kill. As in the Taken King’s trailer it clearly states “His name is Oryx, the Taken King. And he’s coming for you Guardian. Can you blame him? You killed his son. With his own sword.” Now when the Taken King comes out we might have feats for him, but I doubt it. Vague Grimoire stuff isn’t much to go on, feat wise.
    _
    Vex hax is talked about, but rarely seen. I mean Guardians kill some of their big stuff pretty easily. A single Guardian can take out the Black Garden with ease a Vex stronghold. Where was the Vex Hax to stop them? Surely they would have just erased the Guardian from existence, right? Maybe spawned in tons of enemies? I mean they do, during the fight, but they’re slow and very easy to take out.
    _
    ““All technologies and races (except the ones listed above) are available to each team.””
    _
    Abrams Trek or no, all races means that anything in the Trek universe is still there. It’s an earlier time frame, so not sure how powerful the Borg or others would be. Would Fluidic Space still be there in this AR? Would Species 8472 be able to help here? I’m not sure. “All tech” actually, means Borg would have all the tech you’ve seen them have in the series, right? That makes them pretty formidable. Would nanite mines be a thing with the All Tech rule? Could you imagine Borgified Flood? That’s pretty scary.
    _
    “My problem with Destiny is that it just seems to lack feats… “
    _
    That’s my entire problem with Destiny too, as you may have seen above. Vague grimoire cards may have some interesting sounding stuff, but nothing really concrete as to the how they do these things.

  79. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 6:13 am -      #79

    @UnjustVendetta
    “So… do we have any proof he’s immortal within our dimension? You’re referencing these Grimoire, are those stories?”
    Nope. The one I am referencing (Crota’s end [X]) is Eriana-3 retelling what Toland discovered after many, many years of research. Not stories.

    “Except destroy the planet he’s standing upon… Leaving him floating in space… Or sucking him into a blackhole with the red matter…”
    I mean… you probably don’t know so I’ll tell you, the Crota in our dimension isn’t actually Crota. Its a shadow of him (see the Grimoire card for details). Even if this could work, Wizards could just summon his soul back and summon him again. And again. And Again. There’s a whole sect of wizards specifically to do this job.

    I don’t have any answers for how many ships Destiny has, nor how powerful they are. So… moving on.

    “But if the Oracles can see the future… Wouldn’t they be able to designate a threat well in advance? So we’re left with one of the following: the Templar cannot remove enemies that are not within a close enough range”
    The Oracles don’t see into our future, they see into a future in which the Vex plan has worked. That’s a fairly large difference that shouldn’t be brushed over.

    “The Templar and the Oracles decide for whatever reason that they can’t be bothered to remove threats before they’re directly in front of them, or that they really don’t have reality warping powers.”
    And the answer is they can’t be bothered to remove threats prior to them being close enough. Again, in game, the Templar and the Oracles only exist in a tiny part of the map, this is the limit on the Templar/Oracles power.

    “And I say we can’t assume auto one shot because what if something has resistance to reality warping for example? Not entirely sure if ST or Halo has anything that can. Can’t remember atm.”
    Nothing in Halo is immune to reality wrapping, not so sure about ST… but I would assume the same.

    “So, if a ship is far enough away… Or moving fast enough… It wouldn’t be able to do anything at all because it wouldn’t be able to see anything… Yes?”
    Yes. I already conceded the Gorgons would be easier to avoid.

    “And removing a human sized piece of hull might destroy a small ship… But the larger ones can easily survive losing that small of a chunk.”
    That’s assuming its a human size chunk. A fireteam of 6 can be spread out over a great distance and all it takes is for one member to be seen to kill the entire fireteam (it fucking sucks.)

    “So we’ve seen 10 foot wide bubbles of matter removal. At about 100 meter range. I know the range is probably not the max range. But, again, we don’t know effective range or size of these bubbles.”
    Effective range is negelible. Why does the size of the bubble matter? Once in the bubble, a captive can’t get it, can’t move, it doesn’t matter if his driving a tank or a car or what have you, he’d still be trapped in the bubble.

    “What do Harbingers and Carbys(sic) do then? Literally splitting the sky open? Could mean LOTS of things. Reality warping to rip a hole through time and space in a portion of the sky? What are we talking here?”
    Harbingers were weapons capable of destroying Ceres (a dwarf planet), and the Awoken have at least 2 of these (they are always referred to as “harbingers” plural.) Carybdis (had to look that up) is a gravity weapon that was capable of pulling asteroids out of orbit and firing them. As for the sky splitting, [X] “Then dawn light, a terrible dawn—the sky opens up to admit devastation, thrown down from orbit: Minotaurs fall burnt and broken with their fluids boiling out. Cabal guns detonate in thunderous chains as tiny piercing flechettes fall out of the sky and find their ammunition bunkers.” This was on a ground engagement, but its not unreasonable to assume the Warmind could do this hull melting ability anywhere it was needed.

    “What is the most we’ve seen these weapons do?”
    That Warmind attack is Solar based (assumed off the reflection of it being called a “terrible dawn” and Solar is the only thing even remotely similar.)

    “Care to list them and what they can do?”
    Harbingers, Carybdis, the Warminds (because there are multiple), oh and are we taking the Traveler at peak power? It’s range stretched from Earth to the outer planets of our solar system, and it was able to alter environments of these planets and then it was able to stop an invasion of the inner solar system all by itself. That could be huge too.

    “My problem with Destiny is that it just seems to lack feats… ”
    No, you’re not wrong. Destiny is still young, its barely out of its diapers yet.
    —-
    @Kara Zor-el
    “Except he is, and very easily at that. Crota’s Soul, the crystal thing? Extremely easily taken out by a single Guardian.”
    Forgetting that, by the time Destiny is taking place, Crota fell into a long sleep? At the beginning of this battle, he’d be reawoken, not slumbering as he was in Destiny. So… yeah… huge difference.

    “Or we can take the fact that in Crota’s End is a pretty soloable raid”
    Sure… I mean, assuming someone on the other team says “Hey, I bet if we go to Earth’s moon, go down into a pit that isn’t there in our respective universes, and fight a whole shit ton of foes we’ve never faced losing who knows how many of warriors in the proccess… I think we can beat this one guy!” That seems… unlikely, though.
    —-
    Ah, I forgot about Ir-Yut! Or any of the other people in Destiny who have one hit kill moves (unless… someone in Star Wars or Halo is literally immune to death, that is.)

  80. AbsoluteZero August 1, 2015 at 6:37 am -      #80

    I have a mental image of Darth Nihilus facing the Flood.

    “I’m the lord of Hunger, the hungriest by default!”

    “We consume galaxies. Galaxies. Come on. We’re gonna consume you.”

    “Don’t have a body. But i’m definitely going to consume everything on every world I find you on.”

    “Don’t make us consume you!”

    “EATING CONTEST. YOU ME. LET’S DO THIS.”

    Several hours later, Nihilus stands on a throughly dead world.

    “I AM THE HUNGRIEST!”

    But, yeah. Does Halo or Star Trek have a counter to Darth Nihilus deciding that they’re an all you can eat buffet? I’m not sure that Nihilus could deal with the Flood like that, but he’d most certainly be immune on the grounds of… being a wound in the force. He’s none of the specifications for a Flood target. More likely he’d just be avoided as best as possible.

  81. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 6:40 am -      #81

    “Forgetting that, by the time Destiny is taking place, Crota fell into a long sleep? At the beginning of this battle, he’d be reawoken, not slumbering as he was in Destiny. So… yeah… huge difference.”
    _
    I’m sorry what? Forgetting what? Your speculation and expecting it to mean anything?
    _
    Hell Eris Morn’s team took him out. She starts the mission by saying “Six of us went down into that pit. I was vain enough to believe we could defeat Crota. But the Hive caught his soul before we could destroy him. And then there was only death. We failed. You cannot. Destroy the Soul of Crota.”
    _
    His soul is in a fragile crystal, shatter the crystal and his soul is banished. Popping the moon would do that.
    _
    “That seems… unlikely, though.
    _
    Or they could, you know, pop the moon? Earth? Hell the entire solar system. Crota can be killed with normal weapons, a moon explosion, or a super nova would kill him just as easily.
    _
    “Ah, I forgot about Ir-Yut! Or any of the other people in Destiny who have one hit kill moves “
    _
    But they have very weak durability. Ir-Yut!’s song needs to charge iirc, and can be stopped, which is how you beat him in the raid. Pop the moon, or the system and everything we see in Destiny is gone, save maybe the Traveler, though it seems to be in a death knell.
    _
    We have vague grimoire cards about Vex time hax, but we haven’t seen much. Gate Lords, supposedly unbeatable machines can be taken out with relative ease. They’re only saving grace is that Trek isn’t mainline Trek, so they don’t have access to all their time hax stuff.

  82. Tyran August 1, 2015 at 11:20 am -      #82

    But, yeah. Does Halo or Star Trek have a counter to Darth Nihilus deciding that they’re an all you can eat buffet? I’m not sure that Nihilus could deal with the Flood like that, but he’d most certainly be immune on the grounds of… being a wound in the force. He’s none of the specifications for a Flood target. More likely he’d just be avoided as best as possible.

    Drop a black hole on top of him, that should at the very least contain him.

  83. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 12:38 pm -      #83

    @Kara Zor-el
    “I’m sorry what? Forgetting what? Your speculation and expecting it to mean anything?”
    Speculation? You apparently didn’t play close attention to the game. “Long ago, the Moon fell to Crota. He wielded a sword so dark, it drained whatever Light it touched. Now, Crota sleeps, but the Sword does not.” He was being reawoken by the green crystal thing, thus the line (from the mission Rise Of Crota [X]) “If they raise Crota here.” Raise. Because he was sleeping in our dimension and was coming back.

    “Or they could, you know, pop the moon? Earth? Hell the entire solar system.”
    So… the battle happens in our solar system? Ah, doesn’t matter, I think the thread was edited because Crota (or Krota, whomever that is) is now off limits.

    “Pop the moon, or the system and everything we see in Destiny is gone, save maybe the Traveler, though it seems to be in a death knell.”
    Still have to explain why they’re suddenly in our Solar system. Wait, wouldn’t that mean that the Destiny faction has a huge army on the planet most of these armies uses as their HQ? That posses a huge risk for them. Halo would never allow ST to pop this solar system, or the moon.

    Sure Ir-Yut’s song takes a minute (or 3) but it will absolutely kill anyone who hears it, combine her with someone like Gulrot who slows everyone down around him (we’ll say a 100 meter range again) except allies and, yeah, that;s a pretty dangerous couple.
    There are others, too. The Flayers, who used their psychic powers to move Phobos out of its natural orbit. Or the Kell of Kells, Skolas, who cannot be hurt (technically he can, every attack will just do something like 99% less damage) unless the enemy faction finds a Kaliks Minor which Destiny and SW would keep hidden and off the battle field.

  84. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 12:51 pm -      #84

    I think you’re misunderstanding how Universe matches work here on FP. Basically in this match is 4 galaxies. The SW one, the Destiny one, the ST one and the Halo one. They’re all linked by wormholes. If there was only one Sol system it’d be a bit strange considering there would be three factions all within it. So, they could pop Destiny’s Sol system with ease and no one would care because as per FP match rules, all sides are blood lusted. Anything counts to get the win.
    _
    I didn’t notice Crota was out as per the OP, I should stop speed reading those xD
    _
    The only thing Destiny has going for it is vague grimoire stuff and none of it matters, because the solar system could just get popped in the opening.
    _
    Space Magic means nothing if there’s no concrete feats to go with it. How durable are Kell Skiffs? Their weapons don’t seem that powerful when attacking Guardians. There’s just not really enough evidence to show how powerful they are, while the ST and Halo sides have shown plenty with what they have.

  85. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 1:18 pm -      #85

    @Kara Zor-el
    I did misunderstan, thank you. If that’s the case, then the Hive can just block the Wormhole with their own worm hole. They could go in and out of their universe (as could anyone on Destiny’s side they’d just need a ferry) but no one else could enter their universe (they’d instead be sent to some netherworld (which are other universes crafted by Hive Gods.)) Solar System poping still isn’t possible.

    It doesn’t matter how strong then ships are. Harbingers, Carybdis, Warminds, Flayers, can all act as space-units (that is to say, they’d be able to attack ships from while planet side/ship side (for Flayers, the other three are their own thing.) Harbingers would wreck any of the armadas they faced, as would the Carybdis and the Warmind, all three of these are at least small-island busting (warmind brings it down considerably, without it they are dwarf-planet busters.)
    On the ground, Templar, Gorgons, Ir-Yut, Gulrot, Urrox, Skolas, these big guys that would tear shit up before they went down. Plus infinitely respawning Guardians.

    How would these other factions deal with Destiny’s shields? Granted, they don’t make the target invincible, but if you have the wrong weapon (attacking an Arc shield with a kinetic weapon) it could take forever to take the shield down (if not be outright impossible.)

    Also, what in Halo/ST is a solar system buster? Halo, by the Forerunners, have planet busters, but not solar system busters. What about ST? I can’t remember anything that was that strong.

  86. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 1:28 pm -      #86

    ” then the Hive can just block the Wormhole with their own worm hole. “
    _
    Using what?
    _
    “Harbingers, Carybdis, Warminds, Flayers, can all act as space-units (that is to say, they’d be able to attack ships from while planet side/ship side (for Flayers, the other three are their own thing.) Harbingers would wreck any of the armadas they faced, as would the Carybdis and the Warmind, all three of these are at least small-island busting (warmind brings it down considerably, without it they are dwarf-planet busters.)”
    _
    How are they stopping ships out close to the sun when they pop it? Also, some evidence for that stuff would be nice.
    _
    “On the ground, Templar, Gorgons, Ir-Yut, Gulrot, Urrox, Skolas, these big guys that would tear shit up before they went down. Plus infinitely respawning Guardians.”
    _
    Won’t matter much when there’s no real ground combat being done, since the planet or Solar System gets popped. Plus the Traveler seems like it can barely defend humanity, much less itself, it’s going down fast.
    _
    “How would these other factions deal with Destiny’s shields? Granted, they don’t make the target invincible, but if you have the wrong weapon (attacking an Arc shield with a kinetic weapon) it could take forever to take the shield down (if not be outright impossible.)”
    _
    Considering elemental shields still go down fairly easily to non elemental weapons, and Destiny weapons don’t seem that powerful at all compared to Halo/ST weapons, I don’t see them being a problem.
    _
    “Also, what in Halo/ST is a solar system buster?”
    _
    I can’t speak for Halo, but Trek has had two things, small things, torpedoes/missile sized things. In Generations, a modified torpedo can destabilize a sun causing it to go Nova, in DS9 the Dominion almost popped Bajors sun in a similar way, using a small device strapped to a runabout. Trek ships can warp in, fire a torpedo and warp out. So it busts the solar system by proxy of causing a Super Nova.

  87. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 1:44 pm -      #87

    @Kara Zor-el
    “Using what?”
    Using their portals? They can open them and close em at will, ya know.

    “How are they stopping ships out close to the sun when they pop it? Also, some evidence for that stuff would be nice.”
    Depends on which weapon is firing, but 2 out of 3 of them blow the ship up. Evidence for what? I’ve linked to the Warmind feat but I’ll do it again here [X] (It covered an entire battlefield, so at least small-island.) Harbinger blowing up Ceres [X] “Her Harbingers ripped into Ceres, destroying the asteroid”, and Carybdis using asteroids as weapons [X] “Carybdis, a gravity weapon strong enough to knock asteroids off course. Carybdis caught asteroid Tinette in its beam and flung it into Fortuna, destroying both”.

    “Won’t matter much when there’s no real ground combat being done, since the planet or Solar System gets popped.”
    Assuming:
    1) That other factions get the drop on them instead of the other way aroun
    2) That other factions would know to pop theri solar system before they got out. Isn’t pre-knowledge a no-no here?

    “Considering elemental shields still go down fairly easily to non elemental weapons, and Destiny weapons don’t seem that powerful at all compared to Halo/ST weapons, I don’t see them being a problem.”
    Except they’re as powerful as Halo weapons (can’t speak for ST.) And that ignores the fact that the shields may be impossible to bring down without the right weapon.

    “I can’t speak for Halo, but Trek has had two things, small things, torpedoes/missile sized things.”
    Interesting. Explain how they’d get passed the Hive’s portal into their universe? Or are we just assuming they can because “???”?

  88. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 1:58 pm -      #88

    “Using their portals? They can open them and close em at will, ya know.”
    _
    Show how long they can keep one open and prove that it stops over things passing through it. Also, prove they can make one the size of a wormhole.
    _
    “Depends on which weapon is firing, but 2 out of 3 of them blow the ship up. Evidence for what?”
    _
    Prove they can detect ships at such range, target and get weapons there fast enough to actually hit the Trek ship. Which can be in and out in a couple of seconds.
    _
    “Evidence for what? I’ve linked to the Warmind feat but I’ll do it again here [X] (It covered an entire battlefield, so at least small-island.) Harbinger blowing up Ceres [X] “Her Harbingers ripped into Ceres, destroying the asteroid”, and Carybdis using asteroids as weapons [X] “Carybdis, a gravity weapon strong enough to knock asteroids off course. Carybdis caught asteroid Tinette in its beam and flung it into Fortuna, destroying both”.”
    _
    As I said to Lowk, vague grimoire stuff that has some fancy stuff but no real meat to it isn’t a feat. It covers a battlefield? How big a battlefield? It doesn’t say. How did they rip into Ceres, how long did it take? How many shots were fired to destroy it. Gravity weapon? How far off course? How much energy does it take to do this? How long did it take to catch and fling? We need specifics, not vagueness.
    _
    “Assuming:
    1) That other factions get the drop on them instead of the other way aroun
    2) That other factions would know to pop theri solar system before they got out. Isn’t pre-knowledge a no-no here?”

    _
    Trek has hax time travel tech. I know the Vex do too, but I’ve seen nothing of note concerning space abilities from them as of yet. They find out where to strike, go back in time to the start of the match, pop the system. It can be as simple as that.
    _
    “Except they’re as powerful as Halo weapons (can’t speak for ST.) And that ignores the fact that the shields may be impossible to bring down without the right weapon.”
    _
    Trek also has shields, vastly more powerful shields, and they can bust through them, so I’m pretty sure weaker shields won’t be a problem. The thing is, all their shields can be taken down with the right weapon in Destiny. All it takes is a lot of firepower, which Trek and Halo have.
    _
    “Interesting. Explain how they’d get passed the Hive’s portal into their universe? Or are we just assuming they can because “???”?”
    _
    Prove they can stop ships from going past them. From what you see in game, they open up, about the size of a Hive ship, ship comes through, it disappears. Pops back up, ship goes through and disappears again. Show me how it stops other ships passing through.

  89. Tyran August 1, 2015 at 2:27 pm -      #89

    Also, what in Halo/ST is a solar system buster? Halo, by the Forerunners, have planet busters, but not solar system busters. What about ST? I can’t remember anything that was that strong.

    Forerunners have solar system busters. They made stars go supernova to sterilize systems infected by the Flood.

  90. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 2:48 pm -      #90

    @Kara Zor-el
    “Show how long they can keep one open and prove that it stops over things passing through it. Also, prove they can make one the size of a wormhole.”
    How long they can keep them open doesn’t matter, even how large they are doesn’t matter. They can keep them open for as long as they need to, but let’s say they can only keep it open for as long as it take a ship to pass through it and can only make it the size of a Tomb Ship (~30 feet in diameter.) The Vex will know exactly when a ship is going to go through the wormhole, the Hive pop open a portal and the ship enters the Hive netherworld.

    “Prove they can detect ships at such range, target and get weapons there fast enough to actually hit the Trek ship. Which can be in and out in a couple of seconds.”
    Detect ships at such a range? Well, the Vex have Mercury, they could detect it as soon as it popped up (because they’d know its coming) and then could pull the Harbingers from the past (or the future) before the Trek ship even got close to firing.

    ” It covers a battlefield? How big a battlefield? It doesn’t say. ”
    The battle field would have been huge, considering this was back pre-Collapse. On Mars, where the two fight now, they are fighting over a few hundred kilometers of land (the whole Exclusion Zone), that’s now after the Traveler forced a majority of their fleets back to protect humanity. Its safe to say at their peak (at the peak of the battle anyway) the battle field would have stretched at least 2 times what it does now. Easily in the low thousands of kilometers.

    “How did they rip into Ceres, how long did it take? How many shots were fired to destroy it.”
    This is deductive reasoning, isn’t it? Just read the card. How long did it take? It all happened before the Fallen could notice and run away, how fast is that? The first mission of the House of Wolves has you chase Skolas down, you shot at him, he gets in a skiff and the skiff vanishes, Petra says the skiff broke orbit before the “shadow” of the ships teleportation is gone. To repeat, Skolas knows he’s in danger, jumps in a skiff, and breaks Earth’s orbit, and all of that happens in less than a second. Therefore it stands that the Harbingers broke Ceres in less than “less than a second.”

    “Gravity weapon? How far off course? How much energy does it take to do this? How long did it take to catch and fling? We need specifics, not vagueness.”
    How far off course? Okay, the Tinette, the asteroid that was fired, is 28 light minutes from the sun. Fortuna is an asteroid in the Main Belt, 21 light minutes from the sun (if my math is correct) So Carybdis moved Tinette 7 light minutes, or 125,912,832 km. How long did it take? How knows? It couldn’t have taken long, as the weapon was deployed, had Tinettite, and fired before either army engaged each other.

    “They find out where to strike, go back in time to the start of the match, pop the system. It can be as simple as that.”
    What? And the Vex can’t go to STs universe, go back in time, and wiped humanity out before they evolved because…? Come on.

    “The thing is, all their shields can be taken down with the right weapon in Destiny. All it takes is a lot of firepower, which Trek and Halo have.”
    You’re still ignoring the fact that some shields cannot be taken down unless with the proper weapon. This is a thing that happens. Kinetic weapons, when used against vastly powerful enemies, do maybe 20 damage at a time – damage that is regenerated if either part looks for cover.

    “Prove they can stop ships from going past them.”
    I haven’t said it would stop a ship from passing through. I said the ship that passed through wouldn’t end up in the solar system, the would end up in whatever netherworld the Hive used to transport there. They pop a portal to Crota’s netherworld, send the invading ship to that netherworld, and never take them out. Effectively removing that ship from the fight.

  91. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 3:26 pm -      #91

    “How long they can keep them open doesn’t matter, even how large they are doesn’t matter. They can keep them open for as long as they need to, but let’s say they can only keep it open for as long as it take a ship to pass through it and can only make it the size of a Tomb Ship (~30 feet in diameter.) The Vex will know exactly when a ship is going to go through the wormhole, the Hive pop open a portal and the ship enters the Hive netherworld.”
    _
    It does matter. 30 feet by the way is tiny, most ST ships are much large than that could easily avoid them. Again, Vex time stuff is iffy. If they can easily just transmit data through time, why aren’t all the Guardians dead the second they enter Vex zones? The Wormholes btw are usually situated on the edges of each galaxy, and we know nothing of their FTL capabilities, let alone their sublight speeds. Still haven’t proven nothing can pass through the portal while it’s active. My weapons fire seems to go through it when Hive ships turn up.
    _
    To the few paragraphs after, I asked because the cards can be pretty vague. There’s some nice assumptions there. Less than a second to escape atmo just isn’t seen, as we often see Fallen ships enter atmo drop people off and leave atmo and it take a lot longer than that. Regardless of what she says, we have visual confirmation of how long it takes their ships to do anything. Also want to point out that the first mission to track Skolas is on Venus and not Earth.
    _
    “What? And the Vex can’t go to STs universe, go back in time, and wiped humanity out before they evolved because…? Come on.”
    _
    Actually match rules. I can see you’re new here, and it’s always cool to have new people but you should really check the Rules page dood. FP matches involving Time Travel state that you can’t go back to any time before the start of the match. If the Vex can be proven to have decent enough FTL to reach ST’s earth and not be destroyed, there’s nothing stating they couldn’t also employ this move. But you have to prove it. Besides, we don’t really know how Vex time travel works, so good luck proving it.
    _
    “You’re still ignoring the fact that some shields cannot be taken down unless with the proper weapon. This is a thing that happens. Kinetic weapons, when used against vastly powerful enemies, do maybe 20 damage at a time – damage that is regenerated if either part looks for cover.”
    _
    They still take damage, and enough damage will take it down. I’ve played the game, and have plenty of exotics that take down ultra hard shields without the right element. Just takes enough damage, which Trek and Halo can do.
    _
    “I haven’t said it would stop a ship from passing through. I said the ship that passed through wouldn’t end up in the solar system, the would end up in whatever netherworld the Hive used to transport there. They pop a portal to Crota’s netherworld, send the invading ship to that netherworld, and never take them out. Effectively removing that ship from the fight.”
    _
    Well certain Trek species have shown to be able to travel between dimensions and even parallel universes. So maybe it will remove some ships, which might be able to get out. But I doubt they’ll be removing any sort of numbers to make a difference.

  92. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 3:56 pm -      #92

    @Kara Zor-el
    “It does matter. 30 feet by the way is tiny, most ST ships are much large than that could easily avoid them.”
    Sure, maybe one or two, but when there are enough to block up the worm hole? Yeah, gonna be impossible to avoid then and that’s something entirely in the power of the Hive to do. And it doesn’t even have to get the entire ship. Imagine a ship comes through the wormhole and only 30 feet of it get caught in this portal as it passes through, as the ship moves past it, this 30-foot wide portal will just rip through the whole ship and leave a 30-foot wide hole. Now, let’s talk real shit. The portals are able to move Oryx’s Dreadnought, which is enormous [X]. Some have speculated the Dreadnought will be at least as large as our moon, but people are are better at scaling and shit can find a more accurate size based off the still (there are some crazy good people on the internet as far as that’s concerned.)

    “Again, Vex time stuff is iffy. If they can easily just transmit data through time, why aren’t all the Guardians dead the second they enter Vex zones?”
    There are several theory why the Vex haven’t done that, the best supported one I know of is that some humans digitized themselves somehow with the help of Rasputin and got into the code of the Vex and are helping out the current guardians from there.

    “The Wormholes btw are usually situated on the edges of each galaxy, and we know nothing of their FTL capabilities, let alone their sublight speeds.”
    Thats blatantly putting Destiny at a disadvantage for no reason. I’m going to ignore that, as it serves no purpose.

    “Actually match rules. I can see you’re new here, and it’s always cool to have new people but you should really check the Rules page dood. FP matches involving Time Travel state that you can’t go back to any time before the start of the match.”
    Sigh. Gotta love when hyperbole gets taken way to seriously, yeah? I was pointing out how ridiculous that idea is.

    “But you have to prove it. Besides, we don’t really know how Vex time travel works, so good luck proving it.”
    Only when someone is being really condescending can they diss a races time travel ability for not being FTL. What? Haha. But that’s all besides the point. They don’t need to reach there fast. They can go slow, freeze time around them, and then when they get there its as if they are massively FTL (which they have been said to do, stop time that is, Atheon does it.)

    “Just takes enough damage, which Trek and Halo can do.”
    No, guy. Alright, so, you know when you are a level 5 and you go to the Cosomodrom, and go down into the tunnels underneath spawn? Those Knights have shields, you cannot harm them because you’re only level 5. Through the power of the Light, as you level up you are able to harm them. None of the two on Team 2 have any Light. Thus… say it with me… they wont be able to take down the shields of Ultras and Majors.

    “But I doubt they’ll be removing any sort of numbers to make a difference.”
    How many Star Trek races can move dimensions? Sorry, this is trapping a huge number of Star Trek forces and an even larger number of Halo forces.

  93. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 4:32 pm -      #93

    I’ll wait for others to come to discuss entry strategies, it’s possible Destiny can block it’s entry, they wouldn’t be the only race to be able to block it. Even then it’s not exactly blocked per se. Just transports them someplace they likely can get out of anyway. I’d need to know more about the ‘void space’.
    _
    “There are several theory why the Vex haven’t done that, the best supported one I know of is that some humans digitized themselves somehow with the help of Rasputin and got into the code of the Vex and are helping out the current guardians from there.”
    _
    That’s part of a series of Vex cards iirc. To do with reoccurring simulations within a Vex Mind, which are then taken out and put into a Vex Conflux. No one knows what is actually happening there however.
    _
    “Thats blatantly putting Destiny at a disadvantage for no reason. I’m going to ignore that, as it serves no purpose.”
    _
    I didn’t make up the rules dood. You can ignore them if you like, the rest of us won’t. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it ain’t there.
    _
    “Only when someone is being really condescending can they diss a races time travel ability for not being FTL. What? Haha. But that’s all besides the point. They don’t need to reach there fast. They can go slow, freeze time around them, and then when they get there its as if they are massively FTL (which they have been said to do, stop time that is, Atheon does it.)”
    _
    Atheon isn’t in the match for one. But you’re missing the point, If their FTL is too slow, then the match could be over by the time they ever reach… wherever it is they’re supposed to be going. There’s a lot of races that can and will bust Destiny wide open. And again, Trek have hax time stuff too. They might be able to block others abilities to use time travel. Not sure, didn’t pay too much attention to the temporal cold war stuff in Enterprise.
    _
    “No, guy. Alright, so, you know when you are a level 5 and you go to the Cosomodrom, and go down into the tunnels underneath spawn? Those Knights have shields, you cannot harm them because you’re only level 5. Through the power of the Light, as you level up you are able to harm them. None of the two on Team 2 have any Light. Thus… say it with me… they wont be able to take down the shields of Ultras and Majors.”
    _
    First, I’m a girl, and second you’re discussing a NLF. I’d look that up. You know what it was though? Coz I can tell you right now it had nothing to do with light. It was the fact I had more powerful guns, which did more damage, now say it with me “More damage means you can bust through the shields” and what does Trek and Halo have?
    _
    “How many Star Trek races can move dimensions? Sorry, this is trapping a huge number of Star Trek forces and an even larger number of Halo forces.”
    _
    Considering it’s all race, and all tech and they’re working together, all of them. They’d all have access to the tech. But for the sake of Argument, Species 8472, Federation, Borg, possibly other Alpha/Beta races. So Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, etc. A lot of stuff happens in that show.
    _
    Speaking of though, no Q, but there are races like the Caretakers, the Douwd, the Prophets who can blink things out of existence. Where’s Aelfinn when ya need him?

  94. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 4:51 pm -      #94

    @Kara Zor-el
    “That’s part of a series of Vex cards iirc. To do with reoccurring simulations within a Vex Mind, which are then taken out and put into a Vex Conflux. No one knows what is actually happening there however.”
    Yep. That’s why I called it a theory. Explains what needs explaining in a neat enough way. Of course there are other theories (like the Vex don’t actually want to kill us) but those have no standing in the canon as we know it.

    “I didn’t make up the rules dood. You can ignore them if you like, the rest of us won’t.”
    I didn’t say you did. And I’m not ignoring it because “I don’t like it” I’m ignoring it because it puts Destiny at a disadvantage that is unnecessary.

    “Atheon isn’t in the match for one. But you’re missing the point, If their FTL is too slow, then the match could be over by the time they ever reach… wherever it is they’re supposed to be going.”
    I didn’t say he was the only one who could. In fact, we know he’s not because i nthe TTK the Vex are using something else to stop time around Sekrion and then going back in time before it was destroyed and bringing it to the future. So the Vex have at least one other leader that can do it. And if the Vex stop time, how slow or fast their travel is doesn’t matter.

    “They might be able to block others abilities to use time travel.”
    Well for that to work you’d have to prove that 1) Trek time travel and Vex time travel are similar enough such that one can stop the other and 2) that they can actually stop it. Good luck with that first one.

    “Coz I can tell you right now it had nothing to do with light. It was the fact I had more powerful guns, which did more damage”
    Sigh. You play the game? Alright. Tell me, how do you get to use better weapons? Oh, right, by leveling up… using Light. And after level 20, how do you level up to do a lot of damage to shields which are a different color from your main weapon? Oh, yeah, having a lot of Light. And, since you read the cards, you know that the Guardians are forged in… say it with me… LIGHT. But, sure, getting better guns in the game that can kill enemies has nothing to do with the fact that, after level 20, you have huge amounts of Light, or anything. Come on.

    Now explain how they can use that Tech to get from the Hive netherworld to Destiny’s universe and not just back to their own! 😀

  95. Aelfinn August 1, 2015 at 5:03 pm -      #95

    “Where’s Aelfinn when ya need him?”

    Hmm? Oh, sorry, I left once I saw that this was pretty much Halo vs. Star Wars. Although…composite Abrams Trek has the Narada…which survived inside of a Black Hole for more than a second…that’s pretty impressive. They also have inter-planetary teleportation…that could be used to instantly teleport the Flood to any planet they find out about…

    I’m not too big on all the other-worldly, monstrous divine beings in Trek, as I just don’t remember them a whole bunch.
    =
    ” say it with me… they wont be able to take down the shields of Ultras and Majors.”

    Yeah, that’s a No Limits Fallacy. If we’re talking about orbital bombardment, show me them surviving kilotons at the absolute minimum (using the lowest of the Halo weapon calcs). If we’re talking about personnel weapons, show me them surviving sustained fire from non-Light weapons without taking damage.

  96. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 5:19 pm -      #96

    @Aelfinn
    “Yeah, that’s a No Limits Fallacy. If we’re talking about orbital bombardment, show me them surviving kilotons at the absolute minimum (using the lowest of the Halo weapon calcs). If we’re talking about personnel weapons, show me them surviving sustained fire from non-Light weapons without taking damage.”
    I was specifically talking about personnel weapons, orbital bombardment, nukes, things like that would kill ’em outright, no problem. Sustained fire from non-Light weapons without taking damage? Alright. When you’re a level 1 (almost no Light) with a Khvostov (first weapon you get, again, low Light, kinetic damage), you can expend all your reserve ammo (more than 300 rounds, IIRC) and almost take out the shields of a level 25 Major. Almost.

  97. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 5:23 pm -      #97

    “Yep. That’s why I called it a theory. Explains what needs explaining in a neat enough way. Of course there are other theories (like the Vex don’t actually want to kill us) but those have no standing in the canon as we know it.”
    _
    There’s one theory I read ages ago thought postulated that the origins of the Vex were actually humans in the far future who shed their bodies. There’s some really crazy stuff out there.
    _
    “I didn’t say he was the only one who could. In fact, we know he’s not because i nthe TTK the Vex are using something else to stop time around Sekrion and then going back in time before it was destroyed and bringing it to the future. So the Vex have at least one other leader that can do it. And if the Vex stop time, how slow or fast their travel is doesn’t matter.”
    _
    It still does, because they’re not the only ones in the match with Time Travel. If side 2 is faster and able to use their time tech stuff first, then it might cancel out side 1’s. Time’s sorta wibbly wobbly really. (cookie if you get the reference ;P)
    _

    _
    I said might ;P they might be able to. I never claimed they outright could.
    _
    “Sigh. You play the game? Alright. Tell me, how do you get to use better weapons? Oh, right, by leveling up… using Light. And after level 20, how do you level up to do a lot of damage to shields which are a different color from your main weapon? Oh, yeah, having a lot of Light. And, since you read the cards, you know that the Guardians are forged in… say it with me… LIGHT. But, sure, getting better guns in the game that can kill enemies has nothing to do with the fact that, after level 20, you have huge amounts of Light, or anything. Come on.”
    _
    Light in the form of leveling up is game mechanics. It doesn’t matter if you need higher light to use better guns, what counts is better guns do more damage and it’s the more damage from the guns, i.e bullets, energy beams, that take down the shields. Since it’s the guns that do the damage and they don’t have light, they’re just guns, and Trek and Halo have bigger, more powerful guns, they have enough firepower to take down the shields. Light outside of leveling is… vague as fuck. Everything in Destiny is vague as fuck and it pisses me off. Damn Bungie. You made a pretty interesting universe, I just want a decent story and lots of info about it!
    _
    Aelfinn, buddy, don’t leif meh! He said we have access to all races and all tech, I’m taking that as composite, coz Trek tech includes the ability to travel to parallel universes and other dimensions, hell even in Enterprise, which is set before Abrams Trek, the Tholians had access to time/reality hopping stuff. I know that was the mirror universe, but still. You know what Trek tech is like.

  98. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 5:29 pm -      #98

    @Kara Zor-el
    “There’s one theory I read ages ago thought postulated that the origins of the Vex were actually humans in the far future who shed their bodies. There’s some really crazy stuff out there.”
    I’ve never heard that one. That idea’s crazy.

    “If side 2 is faster and able to use their time tech stuff first, then it might cancel out side 1’s. Time’s sorta wibbly wobbly really. (cookie if you get the reference ;P)”
    But then Side 1 would know that side 2 used their’s before X time and use it before that. Vex exist in both the future and the past, remember? They’d already know what the other side is going to do something. And who wouldn’t get that reference? Hahaha, but I’ll take the cookie anyway :)

    “It doesn’t matter if you need higher light to use better guns, what counts is better guns do more damage and it’s the more damage from the guns, i.e bullets, energy beams, that take down the shields.”
    It does matter, though. It implies that the weapons need a certain level of light to function. Which makes sense considering all the weapons in Destiny are from the Golden Age, when the Traveler and its Light were being used to do all kinds of stuff. You can’t just brush that off, woman (see, I learned! But it sounds much worse than “guy” XD)

  99. Kara Zor-El August 1, 2015 at 5:38 pm -      #99

    “But then Side 1 would know that side 2 used their’s before X time and use it before that. Vex exist in both the future and the past, remember? They’d already know what the other side is going to do something. And who wouldn’t get that reference? Hahaha, but I’ll take the cookie anyway :)”
    _
    But if side 1 knows what side 2 will do, then side 2 will know that side 1 knows what side 2 will do and so side 1 will know that side 2 will know that side 1…
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW27kyh7PVM
    _
    *hands cookie* well done ^^
    _
    “It does matter, though. It implies that the weapons need a certain level of light to function. Which makes sense considering all the weapons in Destiny are from the Golden Age, when the Traveler and its Light were being used to do all kinds of stuff. You can’t just brush that off, woman (see, I learned! But it sounds much worse than “guy” XD)”
    _
    Well that’s space magic for ya. Everything’s Golden Age and nothing works anymore. Even the Ghosts can’t open a door without at least 3 waves of enemies being killed in the meantime. Guy just sounds generic tho ;P
    _
    Though I gotta thank you, I wasn’t expecting to debate against Destiny. I was expecting all the Warsy people to jump out and be like “Jedi this” and “Jedi that” and “emprah force storm herp derp” “death star, eclips, galaxy guuuuuun” and stuff. Makes a nice change of pace, though still, can’t escape ‘Space Magic!’

  100. Sokogeki August 1, 2015 at 5:47 pm -      #100

    @Kara Zor-El
    “But if side 1 knows what side 2 will do, then side 2 will know that side 1 knows what side 2 will do and so side 1 will know that side 2 will know that side 1…
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW27kyh7PVM”
    Lol. Can I get a “Woo-hoo!” for crazy time travel paradoxes?!

    nomnomnomnomnom

    “Well that’s space magic for ya. Everything’s Golden Age and nothing works anymore. Even the Ghosts can’t open a door without at least 3 waves of enemies being killed in the meantime.”
    Lol, now to be far, he is dealing with stuff that is alien (and not all Ghosts are linked, sadly) and stuff from the Golden Age that cam before him…. but yeah, I totally get your point XD

    Lol, this was a challenge. Its hard as shit trying to pull actual feats from the vague as fuck Grimoire. I might not have won, but I am going to give myself an A for effort.

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