Kain Vs DBZ gauntlet

Kain vs DBZ gauntlet

Suggested by Kitten Lord

Kain (LOK) will run DBZ gauntlet

The gauntlet will consist of 10 DBZ characters;
1) Yamcha
2) Master Roshi
3) Nappa
4) Krillin (Cell Saga)
5) Perfect Cell
6) Gohan (Buu saga)
7) Buu (Kid Buu)
8) Piccolo (Post Buu Saga)
9) Vegeta (SS2, Battle of the Gods)
10) Goku (at his peak)
11) Beerus (At his peak)
Bonus round; All of them at once vs Kain if he gets it this far and beats Beerus.
Second Bonus; If he beats the Bonus, he fights Whis
Battlefield; Solar system, starting planet Earth somewhere in the middle of central park. 100 meters apart. The trees, hills etc have been flattened for the battlefield.
Rules; Kain gets his sword, all his powers and spells from the games, the DBZ characters do not generally have items so ill leave them with fisticuffs
Victory; DBZ characters have to permanently incapacitate Kain, as in, destroy his body, they do not have to destroy Kains soul to win. Kain has to kill/incapacitate all DBZ characters.

How will this end?

Related Posts:



Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.



« Previous 1 2 3 4 5

475 Comments on "Kain Vs DBZ gauntlet"

  1. Kitten Lord July 27, 2015 at 6:21 pm -      #301

    @Rag

    Well when I say hax, I mean the things you listed as their resistances. As in, I did not think Superboy Prime had anything like mind rape, soul rape, time messing etc.

    Didnt think they had resistance to all those things too though. Oh well.

  2. Numinous One July 28, 2015 at 3:13 am -      #302

    “It does not have to.”

    Yes, yes it does, considering you’re saying Kain will just explode them using TK, which until proven otherwise caps out at around 100t of force.

    “We clearly see Beerus making him bleed with a punch that was not nearly any kind of tonnage in power.”

    Attack potency, very common trope in fiction.

    “No not equally. That is why their your insides and are protected by skin and bone.”

    Poor choice of wording on my part.
    But they do need to be very durable to not take internal damage from those larger attacks.
    There’s no point in just having durable skin if the consequent concussive force flattens all your organs.

    “TKing blood, again why are questions like this that have been asked a thousand times and answered a thousand times being asked again?”

    I know it’s been asked before but please, provide an example where he blood TK’s right off the bat.
    From what I’ve seen he just throws people at best.

    Anyway what’re Kain’s reactions like? Because him surviving relies entirely on a retconned calc.
    Even if you refuse to accept FTL for Beerus, you cannot deny he reacted to and evaded electricity.

    This is all moot since I don’t see him beating Buu anyway.
    I noticed in your big post you chose a video to support your aide of things, but ignored other instances.
    Yet when we see Kid Buu’s first appearance, what does he do? Ignores Goku and Vegeta and goes straight for a planet bust.
    www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/509/6
    What does he do after acknowledging Goku and Vegeta?
    Goes straight for another planet bust.
    www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/509/8

    This is so sad, really. I just stomp down a “beloved” series with ease, beloved by some that is for sure. So the result? people are trying to think of overpowered characters like Galactus, Thanos etc to kill him…

    this isnt allowed, Marval characters do not originate in games, especially Thanos

    However Kain would win easily, his too big, Kain is so fast he could easily dodge Thanos blows at the same time as teleporting and then stab him in the skull with the reaver, draining his soul and killing him. No matter how large or powerful, when its got a soul, the reaver takes his life away.

    One of these is not like the other.

    Also DBZ isn’t beloved, it’s arguably one of the more disliked series, just viewed through nostalgia goggles.
    Toei animation ruins everything they touch. DBZ and Toriko spring to mind.

  3. AbsoluteZero July 28, 2015 at 3:39 am -      #303

    On a more serious note for someone to fight Kain. Alex Mercer. Unless Kain could TK Alex down to the atomic level, I don’t see Mercer being lolnoped. (Even though I still find that claim highly, highly, highly, highly, suspect.)

    Mercer’s strong, regenerates like a bastard, fast, and can tank hits where required. He also doesn’t have a soul to have ripped out. Being that he’s just a virus.

    And, yes. I was -joking- with my earlier suggestions. Elaine Belloc is total overkill. As much as i’d like to see her on this site, It won’t happen. Darth Nihlus I hold could be alright, as with Darth Vader. And I think against the Basanos would be interesting, considering Kain’s unique attributes regarding fate.

    I’ll clarify something. I’m not -hurt- that you ‘stomp’ DBZ. I’m not that much of a fan. I don’t think that’s what anyone’s problem is. The problem, Kitten (And I think this is the problem others have with you is, I could be wrong) is that you’ve taken Kain, and placed him on a pedestal. He’s the unbeatable, the ubermench. You attribute feats to him which we’ve never even seen him do (Which is a necessity for feats) and argue the point when someone calls you out on it. You argue that Kain can beat people -way- out of his league. Numinous One quoted you saying that Kain could easily dodge Thanos and kill him. Fucking Thanos.

    I’m a newcomer here. I’ll grant you. I’ve lurked for a few years, and i’ve watched the fads come and go. And this Kain thing is reminding me a whole lot of Richard Rahl. Beyond ridiculous feats being attributed to him, stretching of facts, ignoring of others. The only fight in memory where I can actually remember it being aknowledged Rahl would lose, was against Lucifer Fucking Morningstar.

    I don’t hate Kain, i’m actually playing through Defiance at the moment. Fun game. At the moment though, i’m reluctant to get involved in any debate involving Kain. Even the Mages debate has immediately devolved into “How tough is Kain.” With no apparent end in sight. You won’t waver from your convictions, and others won’t stop calling bullshit.

    And this is why you’re getting people (Some jokingly, some not) suggest matches with incredibly powerful characters. They want to -see- just how far you’ll go in arguing for Kain, to see just how blinded you are. Much like what happened to Rahl. He got the Morningstar dropped on him.

    Ideally, I’d like to keep the Kain arguing in this thread, in much the same way you’d keep an infection in an arm, and then lop off the arm. But I don’t see that happening. I’ll just ask you to tone it down. Especially in a bloody group match. There’s more than a single character to debate.

  4. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 28, 2015 at 4:31 am -      #304

    “And, yes. I was -joking- with my earlier suggestions.”

    joke.exe not found.

  5. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 4:56 am -      #305

    @Numin

    “Yes, yes it does, considering you’re saying Kain will just explode them using TK, which until proven otherwise caps out at around 100t of force.”

    If you read my smackdown post you know my stance is he blood rapes them. But pressurizing any square inch or less of their bodies with his TK force, from inside should do the trick too.

    “Attack potency, very common trope in fiction.”

    not heard of it, can you post the meaning? It does not counter the canon which is, he split Gokus cheek.

    Vegita kicked even beerus in the chest who coughed blood. Their insides are not nearly as durable as you think, not even their outsides are.

    “But they do need to be very durable to not take internal damage from those larger attacks.
    There’s no point in just having durable skin if the consequent concussive force flattens all your organs.”

    It depends on how durable your skin and bones are and how much they mitigate the damage. We would need a calculation on how much force would actually pass through the body once the skin, bones and ki field when applicable have taken their dampening into account.

    “I know it’s been asked before but please, provide an example where he blood TK’s right off the bat.”

    Why does he have to do it “right of the bat”, I have shown in my smackdown post that he TKs almost all the time during ranged combat.

    If he TKs soldiers, moebius, Raziel etc, why would he not TK the Z fighters?

    “Because him surviving relies entirely on a retconned calc.”

    You keep saying this, it has yet to be retconned, show me the “new” scene that retcons it? until it comes out for all you know they could be even slower.

    If it is retconned, then were back to DBZ having no solid speed feats beyond conjecture and power scaling.

    “you cannot deny he reacted to and evaded electricity.”

    Blasts of energy from a creatures horn. Can you post the vid? Preferably from youtube so we can slow it down. I want to check for possible aim dodging. Is the power “instant” or does it take as long as a second to charge? etc

    “Yet when we see Kid Buu’s first appearance, what does he do? Ignores Goku and Vegeta and goes straight for a planet bust.”

    No he doesnt, he screams loud enough for them to stand around holding their ears. Then he seems to say something, not sure what and finally then seems to aim for the planet.

    This covers the “Kain has time” to do things argument prevalent in that part of the post.

    @Zero

    “He also doesn’t have a soul to have ripped out. Being that he’s just a virus.”


    Not sure about that I mean he was a living being, he has a consciousness. Despite being small viruses are actually still alive, but he is one consciousness controlling said virus. He would still be vulnerable to other hax like time manipulation and mind rape.

    “You argue that Kain can beat people -way- out of his league. ”

    No, I argue Kain beating people “considered” out of his league. DBZ being a prime example. Their actually below. Their destructive force is their only redeeming feature on the power scales. People pit Goku against people way out of his league, like Superman. And they seriously get discussed…..

    “Numinous One quoted you saying that Kain could easily dodge Thanos and kill him. Fucking Thanos.”

    Where is that quote? Kain has never even fought Thanos….like, never. I literally say, as he quotes in this thread that Thanos, Galactus etc are OP characters who could kill Kain…

    “tretching of facts, ignoring of others”

    Quote a fact I ignored and I will address it. I think I pretty much covered all the content of this match in my big post though.

    “Especially in a bloody group match. There’s more than a single character to debate.”

    Hey don’t blame me for discuss Kain in a match he is part of. Blame the other people like Mea who specifcally come into the fight to try and bash down my claims he has already tried to do countless times.

  6. Numinous One July 28, 2015 at 5:55 am -      #306

    “not heard of it, can you post the meaning? It does not counter the canon which is, he split Gokus cheek.”

    Attack Potency

    An alternative word for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning. It literally means the amount of DC an attack can produce or is comparable to.

    A character with a certain degree of attack potency can not necessarily cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

    “If he TKs soldiers, moebius, Raziel etc, why would he not TK the Z fighters?”

    I’m not saying he won’t use TK, I’m asking how often has he shown to manipulate blood during the course of a fight?
    Also where has it been shown he is capable of pinpointing his TK to a minscule area on the body or the insides.
    Just because he has an ability specific for blood manipulation does not mean his regular TK will be able to work to the same effects, ie inside people. If you wish to claim that, then provide the relevant proof.

    “You keep saying this, it has yet to be retconned, show me the “new” scene that retcons it?”

    Do you not understand how a retcon works? A new series has started which has now removed the previous movies from the canon timeline.
    We’ll start with the basics for now, another episode should be out tomorrow I think.
    The timeline of the events have changed.
    The location of the events have changed.
    The lead up to the events have changed.
    The only similarity so far is Goku being on King Kai’s planet.

    In summary of purely Beerus related events.
    In BoG did Beerus wake up and spend a day flying around destroying planets before remembering the SSG? No, he didn’t, he woke up, spoke to Whis about his dream, went and visited the fish thing and then travelled to King Kai’s planet.
    In Super, we see him already awake on an alien planet, stuff happens, boom.
    He’s lounging at home, travels to another alien planet, stuff happens, boom. He then remembers about the SSG.
    The Kais comment that he hasn’t even been awake for a day and he’s destroyed like half a dozen planets.
    Back home, talking, calls out to the fish, fish visits him this time. Then they travel to King Kai’s.

    Complete contradiction of events.
    Luckily we know which one to defer to, Super is the most recent and now the higher canon.

    The premises of the movie has been changed.
    BoG is no longer part of the canon timeline so we cannot apply feats from it.
    If for whatever reason Toriyama decides to keep that one specific scene the same, then I’ll happily rescind my statements.
    But until then, no. We don’t use BoG for feats.

    “Then he seems to say something, not sure what and finally then seems to aim for the planet.”

    Which would take all of a few seconds.

    Anyway, 16:25 through to around 17:20 is his little ‘fight’.
    m.youtube.com/watch?v=QTRAJz6zbFs
    He dodges on three occasions, each time when it is rather close to him.

  7. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 6:08 am -      #307

    @Numin

    “Attack Potency”

    I still do not get it. I mean how do you know its a trope being played there and not Goku just not being able to take the physical blow? He bleeds earlier when he is in SS3 form and Beerus flicks him so its all consistent.

    “I’m not saying he won’t use TK, I’m asking how often has he shown to manipulate blood during the course of a fight?”

    He did it at the end of his fight with the Sarafan in the comic, other than that its impossible to know because there are very few cutscene fights. infact, that one fight in the comic is the only time you see Kain do battle outside of the players control.

    “Also where has it been shown he is capable of pinpointing his TK to a minscule area on the body or the insides.”

    Unless I am mistaken blood is cellular?

    “Just because he has an ability specific for blood manipulation does not mean his regular TK ”

    You made a assertion here and I would like proof of it. Your basically saying his blood manipulation is a seperate power to TK. Even though his hand glow and everything about when he manipulates blood is the same thing.

    “Complete contradiction of events.”

    You made a long list of events that have no connection to the actual fight between him and Goku. If someone retcons a piece of a story the only that piece is retconed, maybe other connecting factors that rely on it.

    For example the devs for LoK retconned Kain being injured in the end of SR 1 to Kain being immune to Raziels blows in SR 2’s intro of the same fight. But this does not retcon the whole of SR 1….

    Look, lets wait and see what they do for the fight.

    “Which would take all of a few seconds.”

    Not sure. We have no timing from the manga, lets go with a few seconds, maybe a second or two of screaming. Kain still has plenty of time to what, just wave his hand?

    “He dodges on three occasions, each time when it is rather close to him.”

    Well the horn has a clear charge up at 16:42 so Beerus is not surprised. Slowing it down it looks like Beerus is just dodging about and the goof cannot keep up with him.

    The aim of the energy is purely based on the creatures capability. Under 0.25 time I can see the lightning in movement at 16:43 so if you can percieve this energy under a quarter of a second or less it is not lightning speed is it?

    Also check 16:56

    Beerus gets totally hit by him just breathing fire…..

  8. Numinous One July 28, 2015 at 6:48 am -      #308

    “I still do not get it. I mean how do you know its a trope being played there and not Goku just not being able to take the physical blow? He bleeds earlier when he is in SS3 form and Beerus flicks him so its all consistent.”

    Here’s a hypothetical taken to an extreme so it’ll be a bit clearer.
    Character A can tank a punch that pulverized the moon and overcame its GBE. Fuck ton of force, right?
    Character B can only level a mountain with a punch, yet Character A cannot withstand a punch from Character B.
    This means that while it doesn’t display it outwardly, B’s punches carry more force than what A can handle.
    This is known as attack potency.
    EDIT.
    Forgot to address that first part as to how I know it’s a trope there?
    Because we see SS3 Goku blow a hole through the planet with a punch, with no damage to his fist at all.
    Yet a casual flick from Beerus completely wrecks his shit? Implying that flick is leauges above that punch.

    “Unless I am mistaken blood is cellular?”

    I’ve always seen this, for all vampires that do things like this, as it simply having an affinity for blood. Which is a very common theme in vampire lore, as opposed to them being able to mess with things on a cellular level.

    “You made a assertion here and I would like proof of it. ”

    Last paragraph of Ammo’s quote from that bloke.
    While I’m aware he’s only an artist for LoK, he lists blood manipulation and telekinesis separately, which should carry more weight than fan conjecture.
    If you have proof to the contrary, by all means, post it.

    “You made a long list of events that have no connection to the actual fight between him and Goku.”

    It doesn’t need to specifically reference that one part.
    The entire timeline for the events has changed, that’s not a minor thing. That’s a big change.

    “Kain still has plenty of time to what, just wave his hand?”

    And accomplish what? Blood manipulation won’t do anything, Buu can physically output more than 100t of force so the TK won’t be able to hold him.
    Kain needs to kill him on the first couple tries or he gets caught in a planetary explosion at worst, or ragdolled at best and then caught in an explosion.

    “Slowing it down it looks like Beerus is just dodging about and the goof cannot keep up with him.”

    Except you see Beerus evading after it is fired and barely a meter or so away from him.

    “so if you can percieve this energy under a quarter of a second or less it is not lightning speed is it?”

    Ah of course, silly me. I forgot every artist/producer makes attacks that can’t normally be seen by the human eye invisible so that the audience doesn’t have a clue what’s happening.

    Cinematic timeframe, Kitten.
    It’s how come in situations like this, we the viewers, are able to view things that ordinarily are unable to be seen.
    Not only that, but we can actually follow it with our eyes. Dragon Ball horribly abuses cinematic time frames. Like every fight. Ever.

    “Beerus gets totally hit by him just breathing fire…..”

    The one he tanks, is completely unfazed by, and proceeds to laugh in the guys face? That fire?
    Which he then follows with catching that same attack the second time and throwing it back? Which means it’s clearly not too fast for him.

  9. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 7:24 am -      #309

    @Numin

    “Because we see SS3 Goku blow a hole through the planet with a punch, with no damage to his fist at all.
    Yet a casual flick from Beerus completely wrecks his shit? Implying that flick is leauges above that punch.”

    No your forgetting hardness. Consider if I punched with all my force a wall made up of, I do not know…candyfloss….it would fall apart.

    Hit the same force but against a wall of steel? ouch….bloodied knuckles.

    Beerus is just “harder” than soil and earth. Also your “planet” is basically a tiny planetoid that seems to be made up of grass and soil

    “I’ve always seen this, for all vampires that do things like this, as it simply having an affinity for blood. Which is a very common theme in vampire lore, as opposed to them being able to mess with things on a cellular level.”

    “shrug”, Kain uses his TK the same way he does on people as he does blood. You can see this from his hand gestures as he TK’s, its exactly the same. Moving blood with your mind is actually TK, justl ike moving any object is.

    “While I’m aware he’s only an artist for LoK, he lists blood manipulation and telekinesis separately, which should carry more weight than fan conjecture.
    If you have proof to the contrary, by all means, post it.”

    I can say a person can kick and punch, that does not change the fact that both come under physical blows. He does not say they are two different powers, he is saying these are things Kain can do.

    Also conjecture is conjecture no matter who is from. Fact is moving blood with your mind IS TK isnt it, and every motion Kain makes when using TK essentially looks the same at range.

    “The entire timeline for the events has changed, that’s not a minor thing. That’s a big change.”

    The fight taking place in August rather than July does not change what the fight consists of. They have only retconned the dates so far. Lets wait until the episode comes out before we suggest a retcon. They have not even had their little skirmish on Kais planet yet.

    “And accomplish what?”


    Splatter him, when has Buu ever had 100 tons directly applied around his throat? or on a cellular level? or inside his body? never….infact I cannot recall many actual “tanking” feats for Buu, he gets kicked and splattered all over the place.

    Also Kain accomplishes all his powers with a wave of his hand. And in a few seconds, and considering he moves as a blur, he can wave his hands quite a lot. Shields, time stops, incineration, mind rape…w/e you like.

    “Kain needs to kill him on the first couple tries or he gets caught in a planetary explosion”

    I have proven that Buu does not “always” go for destroying a planet in a fight. The entire main battle between him, Goku and Vegita lasted for a long period before he even decided to damage the planet. I covered “potential” victories for Buu under the “out of 100″ fights part of my large post.

    I said Buu may win some, this is where he busts the planet without Kain dominating him with something.

    “Except you see Beerus evading after it is fired and barely a meter or so away from him.”

    So he can “barely” get out of the way?

    “Cinematic timeframe, Kitten.
    It’s how come in situations like this, we the viewers, are able to view things that ordinarily are unable to be seen.”

    This is not natural lightning ,we do not really even know what it is. If it was a lightning bolt from the heavens and Beerus looked up at it in slow motion and dodged I would agree but this is a supernatural attack of some kind, maybe not even electrical in nature, only in appearance.

    Unless you can prove the time frame was slowed dramatically its not proof. And consideirng the characters are not moving in slow motion while its going on disproves it anyway.


    Also people can barely see that in the movie, its only because youtube can slow down the frames that we can see it in slow motion so your argument is moot.

    If I slowed it down to 0.25 and it was still instant to the point where I could not even percieve it then its fast.

    “The one he tanks, is completely unfazed by, and proceeds to laugh in the guys face? That fire?”

    Well yeah, but he does not react to it. My point being if he is so fast how did he not disappear as soon as the thing opened its mouth? Surely if Beerus has high reactions that should have looked slow motion to him…

    “Which he then follows with catching that same attack the second time and throwing it back? Which means it’s clearly not too fast for him.”

    Well now hes further away and knows what to expect doesnt he. Create distance between yourself and something coming at you and your going to have more time to react. Its another form of prediction feat. When surprised he gets hit, when he knows its coming, he can block it.

  10. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 9:02 am -      #310

    Skimmed through the page, i’m definitely with Numinous on this.

    “I have proven that Buu does not “always” go for destroying a planet in a fight.”

    When in bloody hell do characters “always” need to perform something for it be the start in their match?
    If a character has performed an action consistently (which Buu has), and if he has opened with it even a single time (which Buu has), then he can open with it in the match.

    This argument can however be used against you Kitten.
    When has Kain ever opened with insta-kill TK? Against opponents that his reactions can barely keep up with, and opponents who are likely to just ignore him and planet bust?
    That’s right, never.

    “Splatter him, when has Buu ever had 100 tons directly applied around his throat? or on a cellular level? or inside his body? never”

    Okay, i you’re incorrect here too.

    1. When has Kain ever used his TK on a cellular level? Don’t just assume he can. Prove it.
    Applying a force is one thing, applying a force precise enough to affect cell composition directly is another.
    That’s the equivalent of saying if someone applied a 5kN force with a punch, he can also apply the same 5kN force with a smaller area of his body like a finger tip.
    The two has vastly different pressure. And you haven’t proven Kain can create that kind of pressure.

    Being Telekinesis doesn’t change the fact that powers are limited by what they are PROVEN to do, in EVERY regard & aspect.
    So prove this before saying it again.

    2. TK can NOT be applied at an infinite distance.

    Last time i brought this up, you shrugged it off by saying “prove it’s relevant”. That’s bullshit since it’s essentially asking me to prove a negative.

    There are 2 essential aspects to our physical universe, which are relevant to every action, reaction, and energy transfer that occurs..
    Time & Space. Distance is our way of quantifying space.
    ANYTHING that affects our universe on a physical level, IS BY DEFAULT relevant to Space & Distances.

    Whether it be energy, physical forces, magical, willpower, the “force”, or even affects like teleportation… You still need to PROVE that it can still be used to manipulate objects millions of meters away.

    Saying Space isn’t relevant IS the positive claim in this argument, and you need to prove it, not the other way around.

    Thus the no limit fallacy rule, which dictates the best PERFORMED feat is always the limit.

  11. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 9:11 am -      #311

    @Rag

    “If a character has performed an action consistently”

    So far I see only one count of Buu ignoring his opponent and going for a planet bust. And I say that with a grain of salt, I am not sure what he was going to do.

    “This argument can however be used against you Kitten.”

    It cannot because Kain never, literally never just ignores his opponent or fails to use TK at range.

    “1. When has Kain ever used his TK on a cellular level? ”

    This is what happens when you just skim a thread. I covered this, go back and have a look.

    ” That’s bullshit since it’s essentially asking me to prove a negative.”

    Yeah you do not understand, any claim has to be proven. Ptaine covered this in the Rand/Rahl vs Kain/Des thread. But you can look up burdon of proof online. Shaping your comment with a negative element does not make the claim itself negative.

    All non neutral claims must be covered. And you making up nonsense limits for no reason is geting quite the bore agreed?

    “Time & Space. Distance is our way of quantifying space.”

    Yeah, your talking a lot of waffle Rag honestly. Science does not quantify supernatural telekinesis.

    “aying Space isn’t relevant IS the positive claim in this argument, ”

    Your saying space “is” relevent. That is the positive claim. I say space is irrelevent, which is also a positive claim, but I have proof. Which is that Kain’s TK is not a projectile or physical object that travels distance, therefore distance is irrelevent. See? easy…

    “Thus the no limit fallacy rule,”

    That is not a rule, the no limit fallacy is when you take a power or ability and ignore possible limits.

    POSSIBLE, being the key word here. We do not consider it possible that Superman loses all his powers when within 10 yards of a nosgothian vampire, so we do not consider it for an argument. We do not consider it possible for a lemon being in the vicinity to depower Galactus…

    Those are not possible, those are not related in anyway just like Distance and something that does not travel it.

  12. AbsoluteZero July 28, 2015 at 9:19 am -      #312

    “Splatter him, when has Buu ever had 100 tons directly applied around his throat? or on a cellular level? or inside his body? never….infact I cannot recall many actual “tanking” feats for Buu, he gets kicked and splattered all over the place.”

    This is true. He gets splattered alot. And it all does precisely nothing. He pulls himself back together. I’d like to now divert attention to Majin Vegeta’s ‘Final Explosion’ technique.

    youtu.be/YGNlZYjHo24

    Buu survived this. In fact, Majin Buu (In that clip) is one of the weaker variants of Buu. He was melted away. And he survived that.

    But, hey. Say we’re using Super Buu.

    youtu.be/uI3CMPBjtzk

    How will Kain’s durability manage with being torn apart from the inside out? That super-hard skin won’t do much good.

  13. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 9:27 am -      #313

    @Ab

    “t. And it all does precisely nothing. ”

    It adds “time” to how long it takes before Kain uses exotic spells or soul rapes him. It gives kain time to approach and sword reave him.

    “How will Kain’s durability manage with being torn apart from the inside out? That super-hard skin won’t do much good.”

    Kains been hit into his chest, even past his skin and the force did not do too much beyond the exact point of impact so no it would do nothing.

    You realize Kain could jsut turn into mist and Buu’s mulchy form would just be left floating in an air?

    You realize Kain has ridiculous regen as covered previously? If anything Buu would imrpison himself in Kains body…

  14. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 11:16 am -      #314

    @Kitten
    “This is what happens when you just skim a thread. I covered this, go back and have a look.”

    Or you could re-explain, copy/past, or point me to the comment #.

    “Yeah you do not understand, any claim has to be proven. ”

    Exactly. Like your claim of Space not being a factor.

    “And you making up nonsense limits for no reason is geting quite the bore agreed?”

    You making something out to be limitless when it has never been proven, implied, suggested, or mentioned is bullshit wank.

    “Yeah, your talking a lot of waffle Rag honestly. Science does not quantify supernatural telekinesis.”

    And you aren’t a supernatural telekinesis expert now are you?
    You’re assuming it works a certain (limitless) way without that ever being mentioned.

    It affects our physical plane, and therefor space/distance is relevant by default.
    You want us all to agree that it isn’t relevant? Then fucking prove it.

    “I say space is irrelevent, which is also a positive claim, but I have proof. Which is that Kain’s TK is not a projectile or physical object that travels distance, therefore distance is irrelevent. See? easy…”

    ^ this makes me think you’re a 5th grader or someone that has never in his life attended a physics class.

    Energy is not a projectile, or a physical object, yet it affects our physical plane of existence.
    It is STILL affected by our laws of time/space. It is still quantified via Distance. Whether it be the distance traveled or the distance affected.

    Kains TK may be “supernatural” in nature, but unless you can PROVE how that supernatural aspect allows it to IGNORE space/distances, then it still obeys them.

    Just because something is Supernatural in nature, does NOT mean we ignore its limits simply because we don’t necessarily understand them.
    Someone having the ability to create magical blasts of energy isn’t assumed to be able to universe bust simply because his ability is magical and has shown no limits.
    Someone having the ability to magically shield himself isn’t assumed to be able to tank universe busts simply because his ability is magical and has shown no limits.

    Similarly, someone able to magically create TK at a distance isn’t assumed to have universal range simply because it’s magical and has shown no limits.
    It you have a reason for assuming that, then PROVE IT.

    “That is not a rule, the no limit fallacy is when you take a power or ability and ignore possible limits.”

    Which is what you’re fucking doing.

    “We do not consider it possible that Superman loses all his powers when within 10 yards of a nosgothian vampire, so we do not consider it for an argument. We do not consider it possible for a lemon being in the vicinity to depower Galactus…”

    Those are all positive claims which would need to be proven. They have not been proven, implied, mentioned, or suggested. Which is why we do not consider them. They are irrelevant.

    You however are discussing a RANGED ability, that affects our universe, meaning it affects SPACE, and are claiming that Distance, our way of quantifying space, is irrelevant?
    That’s idiotic, and it amazes me that you’re so blinded by fanboyism that you can’t see it.

    “Those are not possible, those are not related in anyway just like Distance and something that does not travel it.”

    This is where your lack of scientific knowledge starts to show.
    Distance is a measurement between 2 points in space. Not just a measurement of travel. There’s a different.

    We’re discussing a power that can affect space at a certain point. And this power originates from a certain point.
    Therefor distance IS relevant. Because that’s how space fucking works.

    If you have a VALID argument for why it is not, then say so, because so far your arguments are nothing more than: “It’s not a projectile & it doesn’t move, therefor distance doesn’t matter”, which is borderline retarded.

  15. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 11:26 am -      #315

    Expecting us to agree that a power has no range limit would literally mean expecting us to agree that a power has no time limit either.

    No joke. As silly as that may sound, it’s essentially what you’re doing here.

    Can Kain create TK in the past or future? No? Why not?
    Because his ability to influence Time is… what’s that word… oh right… LIMITED.
    Just like everyones ability to influence Space is limited.

    People have more freedom in how we can influence Space compared to Time, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYTHING that affects Space is still limited.

    You can keep saying “Distance isn’t relevant hurr durr”, but that doesn’t change anything aside from make you sound stupid.
    Distance IS a factor. For everything. It always has been, and will always continue to be.

    Granted we’re dealing with supernatural abilities here, but unless SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED OR PROVEN, we still assume they follow our laws, and this is one of them.

  16. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 11:40 am -      #316

    It’s true. If a character uses telekinesis at 100 yards, that’s the only range proven. Range beyond that is conjecture.

  17. Mea quidem sententia July 28, 2015 at 11:52 am -      #317

    “But as you were taught, you can only use this ability at close range. By drinking my blood, you will be granted the gift of Telekinesis. You will be able to manipulate objects at a great distance.” – The Seer, LoK: BO2

    “After selecting and activating [telekinesis], use the left stick to move the circular cursor to the desired target. Unlike Charm, Telekinesis works primarily on inanimate objects, such as the green Glyph Seals that act as locks.” – Prima Games strategy guide

  18. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 12:39 pm -      #318

    @Rag

    “Or you could re-explain,”

    Blood in a word.

    “Exactly. Like your claim of Space not being a factor.”

    Which is shown when the attack does not travel. TK by defintion is moving objects with your mind or somesuch. It has nothing to do with touching it physically with an object. And as shown with Kain, he gestures at a guy, he flies….force appears on the body, it does not travel from kain to the body.

    Further proof of this is in kain tking blood, if this force traveled then it should explode the guy on impact or cause wounds, it does not.

    “And you aren’t a supernatural telekinesis expert now are you?”


    I can see how it works from playing the game. And it does not “travel” in the game.

    “Energy is not a projectile, or a physical object,”

    “. It is still quantified via Distance. Whether it be the distance traveled or the distance affected.”

    Which is proven in science……its proven as a factor. Unlike TK which is not proven in any way, or even suggested. Also TK is not “energy travelling”.

    “Just because something is Supernatural in nature, does NOT mean we ignore its limits ”

    We know a number of limits, we know Kain has to know of the being/object he is TKing, we know Kain has to move his hand in that general direction. Because that is what he does, and what happens. But we do not “invent” limits from nowhere for no logical reason.

    “Those are all positive claims which would need to be proven. ”

    See were getting somewhere. So go and prove your positive claim that distance is relevent to TK.

    ” They are irrelevant.”

    Well no shit, kinda like Distance for TK?

    “, our way of quantifying space”

    Again more verbatum, waffle. Saying “quantifying space” does not prove TK travels distance.

    “Distance is a measurement between 2 points in space. ”

    And since TK does not travel from point A to point B, distance is irrelevant.

    “We’re discussing a power that can affect space at a certain point. And this power originates from a certain point.”

    Ir oringates from Kains “will”, not a point in space. Hence why this is a waste of time.

    “Granted we’re dealing with supernatural abilities here, but unless SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED OR PROVEN, we still assume they follow our laws, and this is one of them.”

    Why would we assume this? no really….if it has no connection to our laws, or is not covered by them then you cannot just shove physical laws on something that is magical in nature.

    @Mea

    “ou will be able to manipulate objects at a great distance”

    Exactly, “great distance”, not just 5-10 meters or thereabouts.

  19. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 12:45 pm -      #319

    “Exactly, “great distance”, not just 5-10 meters or thereabouts.”

    But the fact that it mentions distance kind of hints that distance is indeed a factor as Rag is saying.

  20. Karen Starr July 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm -      #320

    Has Kain ever pulled blood from a person who wasn’t already injured, because that was what he used to do. You beat the fuck out of a enemy, and when they are wobbly you can either murder them, or pull the blood into you at range. Which is either bloob manipulation(which I’m going to lean towards since you know a person that worked on the game said it was one of his powers) or TK. The latter showing that Kain still can’t just yank blood out of people without seeing it at least. Finally because this has been bugging me. Dr. Manhattan didn’t use TK to explode Rorschach. That was matter manipulation. Which is a different power altogether.

  21. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 1:16 pm -      #321

    @Kitten
    “TK by defintion is moving objects with your mind or somesuch. ”

    And you need to prove that his mind is powerful enough to effect things in different galaxies instead of assuming it.

    ” It has nothing to do with touching it physically with an object. And as shown with Kain, he gestures at a guy, he flies….force appears on the body, it does not travel from kain to the body.”

    Distance has nothing to do with “travel”.
    Distance is a measurement between 2 points in space.
    Kains power interacts with 2 points in space. (Kains location & the location of the created Force).
    Therefor Distance is a factor.

    “Further proof of this is in kain tking blood, if this force traveled then it should explode the guy on impact or cause wounds, it does not.”

    For the Fourth(?) time, EVERY INTERACTION between 2 points that occurs in the UNIVERSE is related to Distances. Not just things that travel.
    This power is no different.

    ” can see how it works from playing the game. And it does not “travel” in the game.”

    For the Fifth(?) time. Powers don’t need to TRAVEL to be related to DISTANCES.
    If it affects SPACE as we know it, then Distance is a factor, the same way Time is a factor.

    “Which is proven in science……its proven as a factor. Unlike TK which is not proven in any way, or even suggested. ”

    I know TK isn’t proven by science.
    but that doesn’t mean you get to apply your bullshit explanations to it without it being mentioned or implied first.
    Every supernatural power still obeys our laws as far as debates are concerned until we have undeniable proof saying otherwise.

    “But we do not “invent” limits from nowhere for no logical reason.”

    Anything that affects our universe is to some degree limited by Time & Space.
    EVERY. FUCKING. THING.
    Unless you have undeniable proof saying otherwise.

    You don’t have proof saying otherwise. You just want us all to accept it and suck Kains cock without question.

    “Well no shit, kinda like Distance for TK?”

    So is time irrelevant to Kains TK too?
    No? What’s that? Time is actually sorta relevant?
    Huh, thought so… Well in that case Space is relevant too unless you have proof saying otherwise.
    Oh, Distance is how we measure 2 points in space?
    Kinda like how Kains power interacts with 2 points in space?
    Interesting, well that must mean Distance is relevant.
    How far has Kain shown to use that power again? Few hundred meters at most? Cool cool.
    Well i guess that means that’s how far the distance of the power goes.

    “And since TK does not travel from point A to point B, distance is irrelevant.”

    For the Sixth(?) time, things don’t need to be traveling for Distance to be relevant.
    Distance literally refers to the quantified space between 2 points. Travelling has nothing to do with it.
    If a power has shown to only be able to influence a point a set Distance away, then THAT is its limit until proven otherwise.

    “Ir oringates from Kains “will”, not a point in space. ”

    Kains “will” produces a Force at a point in space.
    Therefor there are 2 points interacting with each other. Guess what’s the relevant factor between those 2 points? Distance.
    And it’s up to you to prove Kains “will” is still capable of producing equal Forces at points several times that distance.
    Oh wait, you can’t prove that. Tough shit.

    “Why would we assume this? no really….if it has no connection to our laws, or is not covered by them then you cannot just shove physical laws on something that is magical in nature.”

    We shove physical laws onto everything (with quantifiable physical outcomes, such as Kains TK) unless stated otherwise BECAUSE it allows us to keep understandable limits on things.
    Otherwise you may as well be saying every magical attack in every fiction can be multiverse busting. Since we can’t prove otherwise.
    But as a debater you should know better.

  22. Friendlysociopath July 28, 2015 at 1:34 pm -      #322

    @Rag
    You may be interested in Comment #138 if you’re eager to continue talking about the TK.

  23. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 1:40 pm -      #323

    @Friendly
    There’s nothing left to address.

    It just annoyed me how KL kept claiming it has no range when that’s unproven bull.
    I’v done my part debunking his argument.
    He’s likely going to keep going in circles and ignoring most of my points which he can’t reasonably bullshit his way out of (just like he ignored most of post #315)

    Luckily though, debates are about convincing the majority, not about convincing one stubborn fanboy.
    I’m content with the way the argument went, and i’m certain most people viewing the debate will be on my side, along with Admin if he ever gets involved.

  24. Commander Cross July 28, 2015 at 2:01 pm -      #324

    Does The Legacy of Kain’s TK Ignore Tensile Strength like with what some match said on StarCraft?
    I think it was a fight that says something about ‘Chubby Starkiller vs Fat Kerrigan’ the last time I checked, someone said something about Starcraft TK over there.

    If TLoK’s TK is akin to what’s in StarCraft, things might get interesting.
    If not, Deadlock or Die are the only two ‘speeds’ I see for this fight.

    Something tells me that 300 vs Mortal Kombat vs The Legacy of Kain or a Kain and/or Raziel vs Mortal Kombat Gauntlet might have been better, most likely?
    By barring The One Being and The Elder God it could work wonders.

    Aren’t all the Humans in 300 and Mortal Kombat more powerful than the Humans at LoK?
    300-verse Spartans and Immortals are Super-human the last I checked.

  25. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 2:10 pm -      #325

    “Unless I am mistaken blood is cellular?”

    Question on this, has Kain ever taken just a single cell of blood?
    All I can remember is him pulling in a lot of blood at once rather then say, a drop. Wouldn’t that be like me saying I can suck a cell sized serving of soda because I can suck in a ounce at a time.

  26. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 2:52 pm -      #326

    Yea i didn’t really get Kittens response about the blood thing.

    Now that the distance thing has been settled (if i’m not mistaken, everyone here agrees it’ll be based on best feat, correct?)

    I do want a better explanation about how TKing blood means he can TK with cellular precision.

  27. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 3:01 pm -      #327

    Forexample, i can grab & lift like 10g of blood in my hands, by applying a force of 0.1N.
    Which’ll be something like 100 Pascals of pressure.

    But that doesn’t mean i can apply the same 0.1N Force on a more condensed area of the blood.
    Forexample, in the case of a single blood cell, it’ll be like 1,000,000,000,000,000 Pascals of pressure.

    There’s no evidence Kain can do that, unless i’m horribly mistaken about his abilities.

  28. Karen Starr July 28, 2015 at 3:38 pm -      #328

    Thing is Kain doesn’t use TK to manipulate blood, he has straight up blood manipulation as a power and he has to see the blood to essentially pull it to him. Which is all he’s been shown to do anyway.

  29. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 3:50 pm -      #329

    @Karen

    “Has Kain ever pulled blood from a person who wasn’t already injured, because that was what he used to do.”

    Aye in the comic I posted.

    Also what you said is not entirely true, his blood shower spell drained people regardless of damage. His blood gout spell also sort of did that.

    ” Finally because this has been bugging me. Dr. Manhattan didn’t use TK to explode Rorschach. That was matter manipulation. Which is a different power altogether.”

    I do not understand why people struggled with my example. I never said Kain had matter manipulation like manhattan, I just showed a scene of someone getting splattered which would happen if 100 tons suddenly blasted outwards inside someones body.

    @Rag

    “And you need to prove that his mind is powerful enough”

    So its not about space and waffle now, your now saying you have a precedent for Kains “mind” being the only limit on the power, is there any such thing shown that he has to have a stronger mind for greater distance?

    “Therefor Distance is a factor.”

    Only your making the mistake of saying it originates from Kain the point of space, it oringates from his mind, which is not physically plotable.

    “but that doesn’t mean you get to apply your bullshit explanations to it without it being mentioned or implied first.”

    Which is exactly what your doing by trying to enforce this whole “two points in space” nonsense. You admit its not covered by science or proven but then go on to use something apparently scientific and enforce on this supernatural power without any clever reasoning.

    “So is time irrelevant to Kains TK too?”

    I do not know. Next;

    “Huh, thought so… Well in that case Space is relevant too unless you have proof saying otherwise.”

    Thats not how it works. “unless you have proof saying otherwise I am correct, regardless of my own proof”…..that is what you are doing.

    “Kains “will” produces a Force at a point in space.”

    Kains will is not a point in space, but it can “create” force in space. Your comparisons rely on there being “two points” in space, one of them is not.

    “We shove physical laws onto everything (with quantifiable physical outcomes”

    Examples? And we have those quantifable outcomes in the amount of force Kain outputs with his TK, 100-200 tons, that is fine. But I have never seen us enforce something not even related before.

    “Otherwise you may as well be saying every magical attack in every fiction can be multiverse busting. Since we can’t prove otherwise.”

    Only that is not the same logic I am using.

    @Lowk

    “Question on this, has Kain ever taken just a single cell of blood?”

    I do not think so, he TKs the blood towards him enmass usually, however;

    “All I can remember is him pulling in a lot of blood at once rather then say, a drop.”

    He never drops a single drop of blood. Which means his Tk is holding the blood together. If it could not at least Tk on the cellular level it would pour through.

    Kain does not “pick up” blood like in yours and Rags examples. he has to target them, and create a force otherwise how else could he move it?

  30. Numinous One July 28, 2015 at 4:05 pm -      #330

    How is this such a big issue? Like honestly.
    The furthest provable distance Kain has shown using his TK is his shown limit, saying otherwise is conjecture.
    It’s really that simple.

  31. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 4:10 pm -      #331

    If Kain hasn’t used telekinesis at 1,000 yards, he cannot do so in a debate. The same goes for 500 yards, and 100 yards, and so on.
    ~
    He never drops a single drop of blood. Which means his Tk is holding the blood together. If it could not at least Tk on the cellular level it would pour through.
    -In the same way, I can lift sand on a molecular level. I cannot pick up a single molecule of it, however. There is a big difference between moving a large mass of something and singling out a minute speck of it. If the speck is of a size that people are ordinarily unable to physically perceive or otherwise deal with on a singular basis, then there’s no guarantee they can do so with others of their powers. That burden of proof needs to be fulfilled if such is claimed.

  32. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 5:29 pm -      #332

    @Kitten
    “So its not about space and waffle now, your now saying you have a precedent for Kains “mind” being the only limit on the power, is there any such thing shown that he has to have a stronger mind for greater distance?”

    You mentioned that he uses his mind & willpower (which is a result of your mind) to TK.
    Therefor whether or not he can manipulate further objects in space would also depend on his Mind.
    Not necessarily requiring a “Stronger” mind, but it would DEPEND on his mind.

    “Only your making the mistake of saying it originates from Kain the point of space, it oringates from his mind, which is not physically plotable.”

    So you’re saying Kains brain isn’t actually in our universe? and that it’s a none-plotable point? Yea go ahead and prove that buddy.
    Or let me guess, you’re going to go all spiritual mumbo jumbo on me and try to explain how the “mind” isn’t actually in the brain. Well, go ahead and prove that too.

    Keep in mind, i don’t want your OPINION or assumptions. Get me fucking proof.

    “You admit its not covered by science or proven but then go on to use something apparently scientific and enforce on this supernatural power without any clever reasoning”

    It’s a supernatural power that exists in our universe & its effects are clearly visible/quantifiable in our universe.
    Therefor we still apply our laws to it until we have proof stating otherwise.

    Just because it’s supernatural, doesn’t mean you get to add bullshit explanations & theories to how it functions.
    Either you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt EXACTLY how the supernatural power functions, via proof and/or word of god,
    Or we continue applying real life science to it, and therefor, adding limits to its range.

    “I do not know. Next;”

    You do not know? Seriously? That’s the laziest cop-out i would have expected from you.
    Well, i’ll answer it for you, as far as feats & showings go, time IS a relevant factor.
    Time will continue to be a relevant factor, until we get proof saying otherwise, and thus so is Space.

    “Thats not how it works. “unless you have proof saying otherwise I am correct, regardless of my own proof”…..that is what you are doing.”

    I do have proof though, the human understanding of the Space/Time continuum.
    It’s YOUR job to prove Kains power gets to ignore that now.

    “Kains will is not a point in space, but it can “create” force in space. Your comparisons rely on there being “two points” in space, one of them is not.”

    Will Power is an emotion.
    Emotions are created by chemical reactions in the brain, and the nervous system.
    The brain is in the body.
    Which is a plot-able point in space.

    I already know you’re going to try going down the whole: Will power isn’t a physical thing, route.
    So before you do that, make sure you have actual proof. Otherwise don’t bother.

    “And we have those quantifable outcomes in the amount of force Kain outputs with his TK, 100-200 tons, that is fine. But I have never seen us enforce something not even related before.”

    I have thoroughly THOROUGHLY explained how it is in EVERY WAY related.
    If Space wasn’t related, i wouldn’t be arguing this with you, and every other debater here wouldn’t be telling you you’re wrong.

    I’m not enforcing something irrelevant. you’re trying to ignore something that IS relevant because it’s convenient for your favorite character.

    @Soulerous, Numinous, Lowk, Friendly, everyone else.

    Have we all come to the conclusion that we continue with best TK range feat?
    Anyone know what that would be in Kains case?

  33. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 5:37 pm -      #333

    @Kitten
    “He never drops a single drop of blood. Which means his Tk is holding the blood together. If it could not at least Tk on the cellular level it would pour through.”

    I had a feeling this would be your response.
    Unfortunately it’s not necessarily correct.

    The reason he never drops a single drop could just be because he surrounds the entire batch with a force. Or, multiple forces in different directions rather. Which holds it all together like a bottle.
    It’s MUCH more likely, and less impressive, than assuming he created trillions of forces to hold each individual cell in place.

    I guess what’s more “likely” is a matter of opinion, and you’ll probably disagree with me on it,
    but bottom line is that unless you can prove the more impressive interpretation… we go with the less impressive one.

    “Kain does not “pick up” blood like in yours and Rags examples. he has to target them, and create a force otherwise how else could he move it?”

    This entire statement is meaningless.
    I target the blood with my hand too, and i then create a force with my hand, and move the blood.
    The fact remains that you haven’t proven he can create the massive forces, like the ones used to move the giant stone(?), at such concentrated areas.
    And it IS absolutely relevant, so don’t you dare go down that route and say it doesn’t matter.

  34. Numinous One July 28, 2015 at 5:38 pm -      #334

    “Have we all come to the conclusion that we continue with best TK range feat?
    Anyone know what that would be in Kains case?”

    Pretty much.
    Anything beyong what he’s shown is making assumption.
    Using Kitty’s reasoning that distance is irrelevant and he just needs to see/know where they are, Kain should be able to go all Darth Vader and TK people Lightyears away just from seeing them on a projection/screen, and that’s where I would firmly call bullshit.

    I think his best feat was TKing someone onto a spike? I’m not too familiar with LoK, but it seems reasonable he guided them with TK the full distance as opposed to being some sort of mathematical genius and cunt punting him just so.

  35. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 5:44 pm -      #335

    @Numinous One
    “Using Kitty’s reasoning that distance is irrelevant and he just needs to see/know where they are, Kain should be able to go all Darth Vader and TK people Lightyears away just from seeing them on a projection/screen, and that’s where I would firmly call bullshit.”

    That’s exactly what he’s saying actually. In fact he has said word to word that Kain should be able to affect people in other galaxies if he knows where they are.

    It’s really jaw dropping that people can be THAT blinded by fanboyism.
    And furthermore go through such lengths to actually try and convince others that they’re correct.

  36. Friendlysociopath July 28, 2015 at 5:51 pm -      #336

    Speaking of TK



    It looks like it takes him several seconds of sustained effort to do that- he can’t just throw out those “hundreds of tons” at a whim. And despite however much power that takes, Kain does not use that much on soldiers when he fights them. I see no reason for that to change.

    Anyone else find it ironic btw that Kitten admits in his own respect thread that Kain can’t hit supersonic people with his TK?
    And Supersonic is like the lowest we can rate DBZ Fighters?

    Here’s the one you guys are talking about

  37. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 5:58 pm -      #337

    Have we all come to the conclusion that we continue with best TK range feat?
    -And continue normal debating etiquette? Yeah. KL just has a problem with that concept. I don’t know why.
    ~
    Anyone know what that would be in Kains case?
    -No clue. I’m gonna say if he’s in the same (moderately large) room he can affect them, but I’m really arguing with KL’s logic more than specific feats.
    ~
    It looks like it takes him several seconds of sustained effort to do that
    -Yeah, that’s a heck of a lot longer than it was sounding.

  38. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 6:29 pm -      #338

    “Have we all come to the conclusion that we continue with best TK range feat?”

    You mean the thing that we normally do for pretty much every other feat for every other character?

  39. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 6:33 pm -      #339

    “he can’t just throw out those “hundreds of tons” at a whim. ”

    Wait.. that’s it..?
    He toppled a relatively small sized stone column over…?

    Are you serious?
    I thought he like lifted a stone fortress or something.

    Where on earth did anyone get a “hundreds of tons” calc from that feat?

  40. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 6:38 pm -      #340

    @Numin

    “How is this such a big issue?”

    Because I do not agree with people making up an arbitrary limit.


    @Soul

    “There is a big difference between moving a large mass of something and singling out a minute speck of it. ”


    Blood itself is not a large mass though. And all examples concerning “sand” and “drinking” is not the same. Because its suggesting Kain creates a “TK” container for the blood, which does not appear to be the case he just makes it flow to him.

    Blood in the body is also not in a container. To control so much blood he would have to somehow create countless little containers, all capturing portions of blood and then moving them through the veins and out of the body…

    This sounds absurdly complicated.

    @Rag

    “You mentioned that he uses his mind & willpower ”

    Yeah, he has to “will” something to move before it does. This has nothing, again to do with distance, I think your comparing two different things entirely.

    “So you’re saying Kains brain”

    I said mind, not brain.

    “It’s a supernatural power that exists in our universe”

    When has it ever really existed beyond myths and hoax?

    “doesn’t mean you get to add bullshit explanations & theories to how it functions.”

    This is what your doing, not me. i am just going by what we see.

    “You do not know? Seriously?”

    I would not want to make blind assumptions about how it works “in time”, that has never come up and I will ignore your blind assumptions as well.

    “I do have proof though”

    No you dont, nothing about human understanding covers magical powers. Certainly not this one.

    “Will power isn’t a physical thing, route.”

    We know it cant be for Kain because hes a corpse. Vampires are spiritual entities, who are fully conscious outside of their bodies. The corpse he resides in is just a physical medium.

    “So before you do that, make sure you have actual proof. Otherwise don’t bother.”

    hey your making the claims buddy, all this about willpower being physical because it comes from the brain, yadda yadda. Its a nice list of your own opinions and ideas but that is not proof either.

    Just because the brain “creates” a thought due to chemical reactions in a human being does not make that “thought” physical itself. Same goes for will.

    “I have thoroughly THOROUGHLY explained”

    No you have said the same thing over and over, how apparently Tk “comes” from Kains brain or some nonsense. When all we know is it comes from his “will”, his will for something to move. I would like you to prove “will” exists as a physical thing.

    Then consider Kain is a corpse and how in LoK vampiric spiritual beings, ergo not physical beings have thoughts.

    “It’s MUCH more likely, and less impressive, than assuming he created trillions of forces to hold each individual cell in place.”

    Its overly complicated and very unlikely. Somehow according to you hes making tons of force pockets just big enough inside the vein to carry the blood….

    @Friendly

    “It looks like it takes him several seconds of sustained effort ”

    It looks like the player is holding down the “TK” button. If you watch a second or two on, he holds it for less time and it shatters.

    “Kain does not use that much on soldiers when he fights them. I see no reason for that to change”

    Because his only goal in this match is to kill. And characters do not hold back for any reason in these matches.

    “And Supersonic is like the lowest we can rate DBZ Fighters?”

    Subsonic actually. I covered this though in my super post.

  41. Numinous One July 28, 2015 at 6:45 pm -      #341

    “Where on earth did anyone get a “hundreds of tons” calc from that feat?”

    Mea did.
    Concerning the coned stalagmite Kain destroys with his PK, it was measured to be 2.5 cm. tall, but only because I guessed where the measurement reached 2.2 cm. What I mean is that the rest of the stalagmite was higher than what the screen showed. Kain, who I guess is 7 ft. (2.13 m.), was measured to be 0.7 cm. In diameter, I measured 1.9 cm. I shall find the percent increase to find the length and width of the stalagmite.

    1.9 cm. – 0.7 cm. = 1.2 cm.

    1.2 cm. / 0.7 cm. = 1.71 or 171%

    Taking Kain’s height, the diameter would be 3.642 m. (11.95 ft.). For the height:

    2.5 cm. – 0.7 cm. = 1.8 cm.

    1.8 cm. / 0.7 cm. = 2.57 or 257%

    Taking Kain’s height means the stalagmite is 5.4741 m. (17.96 ft.). With these numbers, I can come up with an estimate using the volume for a cylinder.3.14 * 5.975^2 * 17.96 = 2,013 cubic feet. Stalagmites tend to be in caves made of limestone. In lb/ft^3, limestone is 163 lb. This gives us 328,170 lb., or 164 short tons.

  42. Friendlysociopath July 28, 2015 at 6:53 pm -      #342

    Subsonic actually. I covered this though in my super post.

    You covered why you think they move at subsonic speeds. You have since admitted to seeing multiple instances of above subsonic speed and are simply not willing to admit you are wrong.

    Huh, and it still looks like he projects the TK energy out from his hand. You can even see the path it travels. Call it fast-moving if you want- but I clearly can see the ‘force’ moving. They even trace a path for him to fire it along.

  43. Aelfinn July 28, 2015 at 6:53 pm -      #343

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRtRiz3t78

    Kain drinks plenty of blood throughout that video, and every single time he does, he drops a crap-ton of blood all over the place. He also only does it to dead creatures. I’m confused where the notion of “instantly TK someone to death” comes from.
    =
    I haven’t really bothered posting much because Kitten Lord legitimately just ignored Yamcha going so fast as to disappear.
    =
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePGU-z-Lv4Y

    TK does appear to have some manner of travel time. At least in this case.
    =
    “Where on earth did anyone get a “hundreds of tons” calc from that feat?”

    To be fair, stone is pretty dense.

  44. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 7:08 pm -      #344

    @Friendly

    “You covered why you think they move at subsonic speeds.”

    No I showed it. I have nearly 40 sources in it, and most of them show this.

    @Aeflinn

    “Kain drinks plenty of blood throughout that video, and every single time he does, he drops a crap-ton of blood all over the place.”

    Only after he stops TKing.

    “I haven’t really bothered posting much because Kitten Lord legitimately just ignored Yamcha going so fast as to disappear.”

    Which means nothing, it is useless as far as finding an actual numerical value goes.

    I have tons of vids as a precedent for characters not moving especially fast but thank you for showing me “that” again, i covered it if I recall before.

    “TK does appear to have some manner of travel time. At least in this case.”

    Raziel uses a different form of TK, he actually does what Rag seems to be clinging to, which is projecting force from himself to the target, or TK bolts.

  45. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 7:14 pm -      #345

    I’m sorry, but was there any proof of Kain TKing things at speed? I Asked about arrows and spells and the answer was no, and I’m pretty sure Z fighters move faster than arrows and spells in LoK. Per battleground rules, don’t they start a fair distance apart? I actually forget.
    _
    To put TK into perspective Kitten. The Force is pretty much TK. So you’re saying Force pull/push/choke have unlimited range as you believe Kains TK does? Also:
    _
    “Because I do not agree with people making up an arbitrary limit.”
    _
    Best shown feat isn’t arbitrary. It’s the best shown feat.

  46. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 7:16 pm -      #346

    @Kitten
    “Yeah, he has to “will” something to move before it does. This has nothing, again to do with distance, I think your comparing two different things entirely.”

    His will influences something to move, by creating a Force.
    Therefor there is an interaction between his mind and a point in space.
    This interaction is limited by Distance, because distance is the space quantified between 2 points in space.

    If you say “it has nothing to do” or “is not related” one more time, i will literally think you’re brain dead.

    “I said mind, not brain.”

    Mind: the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought. synonym: brain,

    The mind IS the brain unless you can prove otherwise.

    “I would not want to make blind assumptions about how it works “in time”, that has never come up and I will ignore your blind assumptions as well.”

    A power can not overcome the limits of time unless we have proof of it. Just like a power can not overcome the limits of space unless we have proof of it.
    You do not have proof, and therefor the power cannot do what you claim it can.

    You’re making the power out to be more than its been proven, and then responding with: “But can you prove that the power CAN’T do this? didn’t think so!”
    That’s asking us to prove a negative, without backing up your initial positive claim first.

    “We know it cant be for Kain because hes a corpse. Vampires are spiritual entities, who are fully conscious outside of their bodies. The corpse he resides in is just a physical medium.”

    Go ahead and back this up with proof, we aren’t just going to take your word for it.
    Even if he is a spiritual entity, he would still be a spiritual entity at a set point in space, in this case inside a physical body.

    “Just because the brain “creates” a thought due to chemical reactions in a human being does not make that “thought” physical itself. Same goes for will.”

    The “thought” itself isn’t a “real” thing.
    It’s just neurons and chemicals. Which are physical.
    Nonetheless, even if it is a “real” thing in LoK, it’s still originating from a physical body unless you can prove otherwise.

    “hey your making the claims buddy, all this about willpower being physical because it comes from the brain, yadda yadda. ”

    Are… Are you fucking kidding me…?
    Willpower is merely an aspect of a person. This isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact.
    If your willpower is being used to do something, your brain is being used to do something.
    This isn’t an opinion.

    “No you have said the same thing over and over,”

    As have you.
    Know what the difference is? Everyone else here has agreed with me, and disregarded you.

    Considering we’ve gone in circles half a dozen times now, go ahead and call Admin if you like, because i’m not budging, and neither is anyone else here.
    And you know what? I’ll bet 300 US dollars right now, that he won’t take your side on this. Totally serious.

    “Then consider Kain is a corpse and how in LoK vampiric spiritual beings, ergo not physical beings have thoughts.”

    If a corpse is still “alive”, then it still has thoughts. And is still physical.
    If the “spiritual being” is still residing inside a physical medium, then it still exists on a physical plane, and therefor has a location in Space/Time.
    This argument of yours is what’s irrelevant.

    Doesn’t it amaze you how everyone in this thread is against this argument that you’ve been trying to push through for so long? Shouldn’t that signal any bells? Flash any lights?
    Do you truly believe we’re all just stupid and that you’re superior for seeing this one thing about your favorite character that none of the rest of us can see?
    You’re really pulling a Malenfant here.

    “Its overly complicated and very unlikely. Somehow according to you hes making tons of force pockets just big enough inside the vein to carry the blood….”

    HAHAHAHAHA
    WAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
    You think making Force pockets is complicated, but you think it’s more “likely” for him to make trillions of tiny precise forces for each cell?
    static.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_small/597/5973235/2427935-oh-you-make-me-cry-laughing-meme-rage-face-.png

    Nonetheless, if you can’t fucking prove the more impressive interpretation, we go with the less impressive one.

  47. Friendlysociopath July 28, 2015 at 7:17 pm -      #347

    No I showed it.

    You’ve admitted that other characters go faster than subsonic- so you’re either trolling or retarded, because you can’t believe both.

    Per battleground rules, don’t they start a fair distance apart?

    He specifically made it 100 meters, likely because he believed he could push his inferior speed calc as the only acceptable one so nobody could reach Kain before Kain used his TK.

  48. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 7:18 pm -      #348

    @Kara

    “and I’m pretty sure Z fighters move faster than arrows”

    Depends on which Z fighter and the bow I guess…

    “Per battleground rules, don’t they start a fair distance apart?”

    They start 100 m apart as per my own rules.

    “So you’re saying Force pull/push/choke have unlimited range as you believe Kains TK does?”

    I do not know, although someone said earlier Vader can choke people as long as he sees them through a screen so maybe. Not into Wars heavily.

    “Best shown feat isn’t arbitrary. It’s the best shown feat.”

    And the best shown feat is him just using his mind to move objects. Its just how he uses TK. Any distance between him and the object has never changed how TK works from my recollection.

    He moves Sarafan warriors off battlements the same way he moves people a few feet away.

  49. Aelfinn July 28, 2015 at 7:25 pm -      #349

    “Which means nothing, it is useless as far as finding an actual numerical value goes. “

    I believe I calculated it to be Mach 5, low-end, for a regular human being. Course, it depends on a lot of factors that push it higher, but this was a low-end.

  50. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 7:26 pm -      #350

    @Numinous
    “Mea did……………
    ………..This gives us 328,170 lb., or 164 short tons.”

    Yea, but Kain literally just toppled it over, by targeting a pressure point.
    It was a naturally(?) formed column, which aren’t the most architecturally balanced things out there,
    And if pushed in the right place, it can easily be made to collapse.

    Kain didn’t “lift” 164 tons with his TK.
    He caused a 164 ton column to collapse upon itself by pushing it the bottom.

    The Force required to do that wouldn’t need to be even 1% of the Rock Formations actual weight.
    In fact, the Rock Formations “weight” is pretty irrelevant altogether.

    It baffles me that no one has brought this up yet… SURELY someone did..?

  51. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 7:29 pm -      #351

    “Depends on which Z fighter and the bow I guess…”
    _
    Considering the range of fighters up there, their speed, even according to you, will eventually matter.
    _
    “They start 100 m apart as per my own rules.”
    _
    My apologies, I seemed to have missed that when skimming the OP.
    _
    “I do not know, although someone said earlier Vader can choke people as long as he sees them through a screen so maybe. Not into Wars heavily.”
    _
    He ‘sees’ them via the Force as well. So might not be the best of analogies. But was the first TK thing I could think of. The point was, it has a range afaik. It’s quite the distance, but a range has been shown. That range shown is its best feat. As Kain’s best feat would be his.
    _
    “And the best shown feat is him just using his mind to move objects. Its just how he uses TK. Any distance between him and the object has never changed how TK works from my recollection.”
    _
    To be fair, the LoK series has always been a fairly closed series in terms or area you play within at any given time. That being said, Blood TK has only ever been done within a certain range iirc. And that has been a fairly close range. TK holding and throwing someone has also been a somewhat close range. But again small play areas and tight camera angles come into play. Was there anything in the comics to suggest his upper TK range?
    _
    “He moves Sarafan warriors off battlements the same way he moves people a few feet away.”
    _
    Again, that’s still a very limited range, but that could be due to game areas.

  52. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 7:32 pm -      #352

    @Kara
    “The point was, it has a range afaik. It’s quite the distance, but a range has been shown. That range shown is its best feat. As Kain’s best feat would be his.”

    Don’t try to use this logic with Kitten.
    His mind literally can’t comprehend it.

  53. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 7:33 pm -      #353

    You’re violating the BankGambling rules with this telekinesis-range issue, KL.
    ~
    “Only the instances that can be proven regarding these No Limit elements will be considered for a final victory, while subsequent speculation on what the element in question may or may not be ultimately capable of may be ignored.”
    ~
    “17. No – limits fallacy
    This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).”
    ~
    There is absolutely no getting past that.

  54. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 7:36 pm -      #354

    @Rag

    “This interaction is limited by Distance, because distance is the space quantified between 2 points in space.”

    And the his “will” is not a point in space….again…

    “The mind IS the brain unless you can prove otherwise.”

    Again why do I have to prove it? According to your definition the brain is just a synonym, which is not necessarily exactly the same.

    “That’s asking us to prove a negative, without backing up your initial positive claim first.”

    Like I said, all claims need proof and my standing is covered by how we have seen Kain TK. Your making a lot of assertions about how his “will” is somehow a point of space just because his “brain” is responsible for will…..

    That does not make will a point in space though.

    “Go ahead and back this up with proof”

    What that he is dead? yeah I see where this is going, the good ol trolling route after you realise your point means nothing. Asking for proof for things I know you already know is a waste of time.

    “he would still be a spiritual entity at a set point in space”

    Right, spirits are physical entities now….lovely, good one Rag, good one my old chum;

    www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/spirit

    “the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.”

    “As have you.
    Know what the difference is? Everyone else here has agreed with me, and disregarded you.”

    Hear that? the sound of me not caring.

    “Considering we’ve gone in circles half a dozen times now, go ahead and call Admin if you like, because i’m not budging, and neither is anyone else here.”

    Neither am I.

    “that you’re superior for seeing this one thing about your favorite character that none of the rest of us can see?”

    I am clearly more adept at reasoning logic. Your disbelief that there “has to be” this particular limit of yours as part of something you cannot prove to be a limit to is clear of this.

    ” we go with the less impressive one.”

    Why go with one or the other? The logical conclusion is we split the debate into two paths, both of them lead to Kain winning as he always did under what I covered in my super post.

    “Yea, but Kain literally just toppled it over”

    He shattered it into pieces. It did not just “fall over”….what are you talking about…

    @Aeflinn

    “I believe I calculated it to be Mach 5, low-end, for a regular human being”

    Wheres the calc? It cannot be Mach 5 becaue the impulse force of a human mass hitting the ground at Mach 5 would cause damage. DBZ charactrs do not cause even furrows in the ground when they flash step most of the time.

    Also you assume they have regular human reflexes but evidence suggests otherwise.

    @Kara

    “Considering the range of fighters up there, their speed, even according to you, will eventually matter.”

    I covered speed in my super post for pretty much all the fighters.

    “The point was, it has a range afaik. It’s quite the distance, but a range has been shown.”

    My problem is a “shown range” is not a “max range”, this is illogical. If I see someone walking up the road, I do not assume they cannot move quicker than that pace.

    “Was there anything in the comics to suggest his upper TK range?”

    No the only comic scene of TK is when he lifts a man up a few meters away.

    @Soul

    “You’re violating the BankGambling rules with this telekinesis-range issue, KL.”

    no, the fallacy is only when a “possible” limit is not being potentially taken into account.

    Its no more a not a no limit fallacy if a limit is not relevant. Superman is not limited by how many cheese puffs he eats in the morning for example in his combat feats. But by your logic, I can bring up anything, including asking how many fights Superman has had in the presence of copper for fear of him potentially being weak to it.

    Its not a relevent limit so someone argueing Superman does not have any issues with copper is like me saying TK has no issues with distance.

  55. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 7:43 pm -      #355

    “My problem is a “shown range” is not a “max range”, this is illogical. If I see someone walking up the road, I do not assume they cannot move quicker than that pace.”
    _
    While true, you can’t win a debate on assumptions and conjecture. Funnily enough, you say we can’t use Conjecture for the Z fighters, while wanting us to use conjecture for Kain. You can’t have it one way and not the other.
    _
    I mean you literally say “I have calced the DBZ chars shown speed at x. This is their max speed” while at the same time going “You can see and calc Kains range here, but it’s not his max range.”
    _
    Can you not see you do exactly the thing you have a go at others for?

  56. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 7:45 pm -      #356

    the fallacy is only when a “possible” limit is not being potentially taken into account.
    ~
    Alright, two things:
    1) Kain not being able to use telekinesis past a certain range is a possible limit.
    2) The rule says “Only the instances that can be proven regarding these No Limit elements will be considered for a final victory, while subsequent speculation on what the element in question may or may not be ultimately capable of may be ignored.”
    ~
    This is as clear as a Windexed window polished with a microfiber cloth. What part are you having trouble with?

  57. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 7:52 pm -      #357

    @Kitten
    “And the his “will” is not a point in space….again…”

    It’s originating from his “spirit”, which exists (in your own words) in a body which is a physical medium.
    Therefor it originates from a point in space. Thus distance is still a factor.

    “What that he is dead? yeah I see where this is going, the good ol trolling route after you realise your point means nothing. Asking for proof for things I know you already know is a waste of time.”

    You know damn well that i asked proof for. Stop trying to bullshit your way around it.
    Or if you’re really too stupid to find the context of what i wanted proof for, go back, re-read my statement a few dozen more times, you’re bound to get it eventually.
    Then come back with some actual proof instead of more bullshit.

    “Right, spirits are physical entities now….lovely, good one Rag, good one my old chum;”

    A spirit which you in your own words said is hosting a Physical Body.
    Also, for the record, none-physical doesn’t necessarily mean not in “Space/Time”.

    “I am clearly more adept at reasoning logic. Your disbelief that there “has to be” this particular limit of yours as part of something you cannot prove to be a limit to is clear of this.”

    1. HAHAAHA
    2. I don’t believe there has to be a limit for everything. I do however believe that unless you can prove something is limitless, it’s not.
    This stands specially true in debating sites such as BankGambling, and is clearly stated in the rules.

    It’s currently like 7vs1 buddy, and none of us are changing our minds at this point.
    Know where that leaves us? Definitely not with the debate ending in your favor, that’s for sure.
    As i said, debates are about convincing the majority or authority, not about convincing one stubborn fanboy.
    You can take your assumptions & fanboyism to your grave, but it isn’t going to win this debate for you.

    And about that $300 bet, you on?
    Cause i’m totally willing to message Admin myself if you are.
    Heck, i may just message anyways if this goes on too long, cause dear god debating with brick walls are a waste of time.

    “Why go with one or the other? The logical conclusion is we split the debate into two paths,”

    Why go in 2 paths at all?
    No one here has any reason to accept the more impressive one and continue the debate with it, unless you can prove it.

    “He shattered it into pieces. It did not just “fall over”….what are you talking about…”

    Let me correct that for you:
    It Shattered under its own weight due to its instability, after being toppled by a pressure point push,

  58. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 7:57 pm -      #358

    @Kara

    “While true, you can’t win a debate on assumptions and conjecture”

    Well that’s the thing, its not conjecture because the games give us all the information pertaining to TK. An assumption? meh, you can win a debate on assumptions.

    The whole fight between two characters is an assumption based on how we “believe” they would interact based on the evidence we have. We can see TK does not travel, it does not go between two “spaces” like Rag keeps going on about, it does not follow any physical mediums beyond the fact Kain can”create” a physical medium with his will.

    “Can you not see you do exactly the thing you have a go at others for?”

    Speed does rely on physical constants, they do travel between space and they do travel distance. It is something we can limit logically under physical law, a supernatural formation of force via willpower? no….

    Also therei s more than just showings for speed, things the characters say suggest is them trying, especially the Beerus example.

    DBZ’s clear tier system also makes it clearer to know who is capable of what. Since lower tier characters literally cannot react to some others.

    @Soul

    “1) Kain not being able to use telekinesis past a certain range is a possible limit.”

    Continue…

    “2) The rule says”

    The rule is talking about a “no limit” based on poor understanding. The power has limits, just not the ones your trying to enforce.

    We can understand that it creates force with the mind, and by proxy, we can from that come to the conclusion that distance is not relevant unlike the things that are, like Kains knowledge of what he is doing and beign able to gesture in its direction.

  59. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 7:59 pm -      #359

    @Everyone who isn’t Kitten
    So,

    1. Kains TK is limited to a rather short range.

    2. Kains TK isn’t anywhere near as strong as i was being lead to believe,
    Since it didn’t lift or shatter the hundred ton rock, it just toppled it.

    3. Kains TK isn’t anywhere near as precise as a certain somebody is claiming. (Cellular level rofl)
    Since it can’t be proven that Kain was individually TKing every cell in the blood, rather than oh i dunno… just TKing the blood as a whole like a bottle.

    Is… That about right… ?
    I couldn’t care less about DBZ or the match, but Kittens wank was just out of control.

  60. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 8:04 pm -      #360

    @Ragnorke: Absolutely. Ignoring KL will only work if we all do it together. Which isn’t very likely…

  61. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 8:05 pm -      #361

    @Rag

    “It’s originating from his “spirit”, which exists (in your own words) in a body which is a physical medium.”


    “A spirit which you in your own words said is hosting a Physical Body.”

    You keep saying “originated from” or “comes from”, fact of the matter is it comes from the spirit. It does not matter where this spirit is, on the isle of fumigara or in the u-bend of my loo. The spirit is what makes the will and you cannot plot it in physics.

    Just like the mind. You can plot a brain sure, but the brain is not “will”, it may be responsible for will but who gives a damn what its responsible for? its not responsible for the TK, the will is.

    “It’s currently like 7vs1 buddy, and none of us are changing our minds at this point.”

    You got that right pal.

    ” not about convincing one ”

    If its about majority then we would not have rules and fallacies that cover band wagons. You have to convince your opponent otherwise you have not succeeded in anything. You have no idea if you have convinced anyone.

    “Why go in 2 paths at all?”

    Two possible circumstances, neither can be disproven. We cannot ignore one fallaciously.

    “It Shattered under its own weight due to its instability”

    s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/XzkaX9b.gif

    What a load of nonsense. You can even see the whole thing quaking when TK is being held on it. It covers the top to bottom, creating what is essentially a pillar, so breaking the bottom should leave “somethin” up the top but Kain creates a perfectly clean path for himself, clearing the whole lot into nothing.

  62. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 8:15 pm -      #362

    “Thus distance is still a factor.”

    “But as you were taught, you can only use this ability at close range. By drinking my blood, you will be granted the gift of Telekinesis. You will be able to manipulate objects at a great distance.” – The Seer, LoK: BO2

    “you can only use this ability at close range.”
    “You will be able to manipulate objects at a great distance.”

    -at close range
    -at a great distance

    CLOSE RANGE
    GREAT DISTANCE


    Distance is literally referenced in a canon description both before and after getting telekinesis. So yeah, I’m going to have to agree.
    Unless there is something in canon that note distance no longer being a factor, it still is one.
    ===
    EDIT: Add on to the fact its “great distance” is being compared relative to the short range his will was capable of doing and that from castle wall feat is looking a lot like a good range for a max or high end estimate.

  63. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 8:17 pm -      #363

    @Kitten
    _
    ” meh, you can win a debate on assumptions.”
    _
    Funnily enough that’s why I said assumptions and conjecture.
    _
    ” because the games give us all the information pertaining to TK
    _
    They do, and weirdly enough you have come to different conclusions to the rest of us based on that information. Which means one group is wrong. Thing is, you’re using conjecture to extrapolate beyond what information the game gives us. That’s why the majority believe you’re wrong.
    _
    “Speed does rely on physical constants, they do travel between space and they do travel distance. It is something we can limit logically under physical law, a supernatural formation of force via willpower? no….”
    _
    Yes. But you’re saying they’re moving the fastest they can move, even though scenes later state they’re not using their full power within that scene. You’re saying “this scene where they’re not using their full power is their max speed because I say so”
    _
    “DBZ’s clear tier system also makes it clearer to know who is capable of what. Since lower tier characters literally cannot react to some others.”
    _
    Yes. Meaning Kain may rise up a few ranks, he might not. But fuck it, here’s a question. You admit Kain can’t take on Supes or Thanos or the like. Why? Why can Kain’s Blood TK trick not work on them. Please, if you can, explain that to me.
    _
    @Rag
    _
    “1. Kains TK is limited to a rather short range.”
    _
    All information from the games suggests this is so.
    _
    “2. Kains TK isn’t anywhere near as strong as i was being lead to believe,
    Since it didn’t lift or shatter the hundred ton rock, it just toppled it.

    _
    It has shown to hold up and throw heavily armed but relatively slow moving guards as well as using structural weak points to topple certain things. He doesn’t use it to move heavy structures, he grasps them with his hands, like Raziel does.
    _
    “3. Kains TK isn’t anywhere near as precise as a certain somebody is claiming. (Cellular level rofl)
    Since it can’t be proven that Kain was individually TKing every cell in the blood, rather than oh i dunno… just TKing the blood as a whole like a bottle.”

    _
    As has been stated by me and Karen and possibly others, it might not be TK exactly anyway, it might be blood manipulation specifically. He being a Vampire and all.
    _
    “If its about majority then we would not have rules and fallacies that cover band wagons. You have to convince your opponent otherwise you have not succeeded in anything. You have no idea if you have convinced anyone.”
    _
    If I’m correct, either side has to convince Admin, that’s it. Not each other. He as arbiter, reads both sides of the argument and whichever side convinces him is the victor, is the victor.

  64. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 8:18 pm -      #364

    @Kitten
    “You keep saying “originated from” or “comes from”, fact of the matter is it comes from the spirit. ”

    Is the Spirit omnipresent? As in, existing everywhere & nowhere simultaneously?
    No? Than it exists in a plot-able place in Space.
    There’s no in between, it’s one or the other.
    And that plotable place is in the physical body which you refer to as a Medium.

    “It does not matter where this spirit is, on the isle of fumigara or in the u-bend of my loo. The spirit is what makes the will and you cannot plot it in physics.”

    There you go!
    You yourself refer to the spirit as being in “places”. The spirit is not omnipresent, and it certainly isn’t non-existent. It has a location, which is its body.
    Kain doesn’t exist in 2 places simultaneously, he exists in 1, and his powers originate from that one.

    “You have to convince your opponent otherwise you have not succeeded in anything. You have no idea if you have convinced anyone.”

    That’s not true at all.
    About a dozen of us still failed to convince Malenfant about several things, despite the debate going on for thousands of posts.
    It took interference from Admin to make him shut up.
    And guess what? We succeeded because of that, not him.

    So, you keep ignoring that 300 bucks offer.

    “Two possible circumstances, neither can be disproven. We cannot ignore one fallaciously.”

    2 circumstances, one incredibly impressive, whereas the other is “meh” and more in line with the characters hundreds of other showings.
    Unless you have undeniable proof of the first, none of us have any reason to accept it as anything more than a retarded fan theory.
    And you know what? We aren’t going to accept it as anything more.
    You can’t force us to accept or continue debating something you cannot prove, when there’s a weaker & more likely alternative.

    “s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/XzkaX9b.gif
    What a load of nonsense. You can even see the whole thing quaking when TK is being held on it. It covers the top to bottom, creating what is essentially a pillar, so breaking the bottom should leave “somethin” up the top but Kain creates a perfectly clean path for himself, clearing the whole lot into nothing.”

    1. The whole thing would quake regardless of where it’s being pressured from. Moot point.
    2. The top could still be “pulled” down by the impulse created by the bottom layers sudden removal. Another moot point.

    Kain did not shatter the pillar on his own,
    And even IF he had, we have literally no idea of its balance, composition, or density.
    For all we know, a human could have accomplished the same thing by pushing a pressure point with enough impact.

    This is something you damn well can’t prove me wrong in. Just like your other 2 pathetic attempts at “arguments”.

  65. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 8:19 pm -      #365

    “They do, and weirdly enough you have come to different conclusions to the rest of us based on that information. Which means one group is wrong.”

    *One or both groups

    Admittedly i have not been following what anybody has been saying, so i am just assuming that there are multiple ways to interoperate the data

  66. Ragnorke July 28, 2015 at 8:22 pm -      #366

    @Soulerous
    “Ignoring KL will only work if we all do it together. Which isn’t very likely…”

    As hard as it may be… I’ll give it a shot!

    @Kara
    “It has shown to hold up and throw heavily armed bu relatively slow moving guards as well as using structural weak points to topple certain things..”

    Thought so! Cheers.
    I was being led to believe it can completely shatter hundreds of tons.

  67. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 8:26 pm -      #367

    You have to convince your opponent otherwise you have not succeeded in anything. You have no idea if you have convinced anyone.
    -He doesn’t need to convince anyone. He needs to be right. Once someone has the advantage of being objectively correct, they tend to garner supporters. But being able to convince others only matters insomuch as utter failure to convince anyone results in you being unable to affect the outcome of the match.
    ~
    We know the outcome of the match. Kain loses horribly to most of the Dragon Ball characters. That is the outcome, and you are unable to change it because there is neither fact nor social influence that can enable you to do so.
    ~
    Ironically, these two sentences of yours support contradicting thoughts: “If its about majority then we would not have rules and fallacies that cover band wagons. You have to convince your opponent otherwise you have not succeeded in anything.”
    ~
    They each imply a different goal. Is the goal to be factually correct, or is it to convince others? If it’s to convince others then the majority wins regardless of rules and fallacies. If it’s to be objectively correct then convincing others doesn’t matter. Either way, we know where we stand.
    ~
    As hard as it may be… I’ll give it a shot!” -Alright, I will too. It’s going to be difficult, because…

  68. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 8:26 pm -      #368

    “Admittedly i have not been following what anybody has been saying, so i am just assuming that there are multiple ways to interoperate the data”
    _
    The information either indicates that TK can do x or it cannot do x. So there really is only two ways to take it.

  69. Friendlysociopath July 28, 2015 at 8:27 pm -      #369

    @Everyone who isn’t Kitten

    Hey, I’m included in that!

    1. Kains TK is limited to a rather short range.

    By feats yes, at best he has the reach of a large room I think- demonstrated very well by Kain having to move to reach that 2nd column in the video.
    Either his TK loses power as it travels (which I maintain it does, visibly or no)
    Or his range can’t reach that 2nd pillar from where he starts.

    2. Kains TK isn’t anywhere near as strong as i was being lead to believe,
    Since it didn’t lift or shatter the hundred ton rock, it just toppled it.


    He does specifically target the bottom of the spire; seems to be targeting a weak point rather than just brute “PUSH POWAH”.

    3. Kains TK isn’t anywhere near as precise as a certain somebody is claiming. (Cellular level rofl)
    Since it can’t be proven that Kain was individually TKing every cell in the blood, rather than oh i dunno… just TKing the blood as a whole like a bottle.


    I don’t think Kain even knows what cells are, that was always a shaky claim. Right up there with possibly throwing people into the sun.

  70. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 8:30 pm -      #370

    “The information either indicates that TK can do x or it cannot do x. So there really is only two ways to take it.”

    In which case i apologise profusely for my presumptuous attitude and hope that you, in all of your kryptonian glory, can forgive me.

  71. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 8:34 pm -      #371

    “In which case i apologise profusely for my presumptuous attitude and hope that you, in all of your kryptonian glory, can forgive me.”
    _
    I will only do such a thing, if you can refrain from saying “Hey, Listen!”.

  72. Nobunaga Jin July 28, 2015 at 8:34 pm -      #372

    Okay, against my better judgement, I’m going to attempt to jump into this…What’re we all focusing on right now? I know it’s about Kain’s telekinesis, but what’s it for?

  73. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 8:37 pm -      #373

    “I will only do such a thing, if you can refrain from saying “Hey, Listen!”.”

    I’ll try my hardest. From now on i will stick with “Hello!” and “Watch out!”

  74. Numinous One July 28, 2015 at 8:38 pm -      #374

    So is this like, Malenfant 2.0?
    Cause I didn’t get to be on the receiving end of that one.

  75. Mea quidem sententia July 28, 2015 at 8:40 pm -      #375

    To be fair, Kain does use telekinesis a lot at the beginning of Defiance. The in-game description tells the player to use TK blast and to use TK to lift up Sarafan knights to throw them, but he never causes them to explode. He also throws them about 10 meters.

    My wife suspects those stalagmites would have eroded from the elements, so its structure would have been weakened.

    Since stalagmites contain calcium carbonate, a chemical compound found in bone, we should expect Kain to easily destroy the skeleton of his opponents. He never does this. So the force actually hasn’t been determined. I guess all I did was calculate how much those stalagmites weigh.

    Since Kain throws Sarafan knights early on in Defiance using his TK, let’s say those knights have a mass of 80 kg. 70 kg. is the average mass of an adult male and those knights are wearing armor. They are also holding a bow, so maybe another 5 kg.

    I timed how long it took a Sarafan knight to be thrown at around 1.5 seconds with the YouTube video at 50%, so the time is 0.750 seconds at a distance of around 10 meters. This would give us a velocity of 13.33 m/s. Using 85 kg., the momentum would be 1,133.33 N s. The Sarafan knight slides on the floor afterwards, and this lasts 0.497 seconds. Using F = N s / s gives us 2,280.34 N, or 512.65 pounds-force.

  76. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 8:41 pm -      #376

    @Lowk

    “Distance is literally referenced in a canon description”

    Kain has a limit on how far he can use TK, not based on the TK but because he himself has limitations in how far he can perceive.

    “Thing is, you’re using conjecture to extrapolate beyond what information the game gives us. That’s why the majority believe you’re wrong.”

    Its more the reverse. I am using what the game gives us, which is Kain just willing objects to move, thats it. other people are using conjecture to extrapolate on its limits, ergo, adding “distance” as an issue. When this has not been shown to be the case or even referenced as an issue.

    “But you’re saying they’re moving the fastest they can move”

    Who in particular? it depends on each person for why I would say that. Most of the reasons could be because their fighting in a battle for their lives and motivation suggests they would “try” to defend themselves.

    ” even though scenes later state they’re not using their full power within that scene.”

    Who are you refering to? Also full power is not hte same as full speed.

    ” Why? Why can Kain’s Blood TK trick not work on them. Please, if you can, explain that to me.”

    Well, lets put it this way, although I do not read comics, in the short scraps I can find here and there those characters are impossibly fast, as in so fast it would make both Kain, his universe and the DBZ universe look like their frozen.

    Either that or their so powerful they can blow up galaxies with their powers. There is no way Kain can face that sort of firepower.

    @Rag

    “Than it exists in a plot-able place in Space.”

    Yeah, really? where in space friend? show me, for example where my “spirit” is in space? Not my body, my spirit….

    Oh wait…you cant, because its not even physical.

    “It has a location, which is its body.”

    Its not its body though, this is what you cannot grasp. What if its in the spectral plane? and so not in the body? Is that plottable in space too? where is the spectral plane according to science?

    “And guess what? We succeeded because of that, not him.”

    Sounds like Admin succeeded. You failed because you could not convince someone with your argument.

    “You can’t force us to accept or continue debating something you cannot prove,”

    Neither can you force anything at all. Hence why there are two branches to this argument. Or your argueing from ignorance fallaciously.

    “Kain did not shatter the pillar on his own”

    No he used TK.

    “For all we know, a human could have accomplished the same thing by pushing a pressure point with enough impact.”

    no human can shatter over 100 tons of pillar into fragments flying off into the water like a broken glass bottle like that.

  77. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #377

    As far as the potency of Kain’s telekinesis goes, this is respectable. It looks like sudden blasts, though. And it wouldn’t be useful against someone with Z-Fighter durability.

  78. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 28, 2015 at 8:50 pm -      #378

    ” I’ll bet 300 US dollars right now, that he won’t take your side on this.

    And about that $300 bet, you on?

    So, you keep ignoring that 300 bucks offer.”

    Now, I know that was directed at KL, but any possibility anyone else can take that bet?

    With that money, I can afford an xbox! I won’t need no stupid Fairy Wish Prince anymore!

  79. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 8:51 pm -      #379

    “Kain has a limit on how far he can use TK, not based on the TK but because he himself has limitations in how far he can perceive.”

    The description was based soley on the powers themseleves. Distance is a factor regarding the ability to move things from a distance using supernatural means in The universe.

  80. Mea quidem sententia July 28, 2015 at 8:52 pm -      #380

    Actually, knight armor could weigh up to 25 kg., so if we work with a high end, a Sarafan knight could weigh up to 100 kg. with the bow. This would give us 2682.76 N instead, or 603.11 pounds-force.

  81. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 8:56 pm -      #381

    “With that money, I can afford an xbox! I won’t need no stupid Fairy Wish Prince anymore!”

    Good cuz he couldn’t afford an xbox.

  82. Aelfinn July 28, 2015 at 8:57 pm -      #382

    I’ve gotta respond, man…

    “Wheres the calc? It cannot be Mach 5 becaue the impulse force of a human mass hitting the ground at Mach 5 would cause damage. DBZ charactrs do not cause even furrows in the ground when they flash step most of the time.”

    I believe it’s in “What’s the Power Level of DBZ”?
    Dragonball characters can fly, ya know? That means they can apply force in directions around their body in order to slow themselves down, change directions, and accelerate. They don’t have to be stopping all of their speed using nothing but the ground. Furthermore, “furrows weren’t created” is something that can very easily be explained by fiction. Almost every single physical feat in fiction shows characters not creating all the environmental damage they should. Being too specific nullifies all feats, including Raziel’s and Kain’s.
    =
    “Also you assume they have regular human reflexes but evidence suggests otherwise.”

    Evidence suggests they have better-than-human reflexes, as they’ve caught bullets before.

  83. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 8:58 pm -      #383

    “Its more the reverse. I am using what the game gives us, which is Kain just willing objects to move, thats it.”
    _
    Yes, within reason, and within limits. You haven’t proved that the limits reach what you imagine them to be. Whereas we can see the limits and are using that information to work out why he loses.
    _
    Do you understand what proof is? Solid, concrete evidence? Because you have yet to provide any. You also see to dodge or ignore legitimate questions that call a lot of your ‘proof’ into question. You still haven’t shown him TKing things at speed, and trust me, as slow as an arrow or not, the Z fighters will be moving at speed. Prove he can do that.
    _
    Hell prove it’s not just Blood Manipulation, and is actually TK. Everything I’ve looked up on the matter seem to indicate that “blood drinking” and “TK” are two separate abilities.
    _
    “Who in particular?”
    _
    Um, the one and only scene you ever use? The BoG’s Billis/Beerus vs SSG Goky scene. You know later in the movie Beerus says he wasn’t using his full power, right?
    _
    “Who are you refering to? Also full power is not hte same as full speed.
    _
    Beerus, and yes, it is. Full power in DBZ means not using full potential, the max of their abilities.
    _
    “Well, lets put it this way, although I do not read comics, in the short scraps I can find here and there those characters are impossibly fast, as in so fast it would make both Kain, his universe and the DBZ universe look like their frozen.”
    _
    Not what I asked. Supes and Thanos, afaik, don’t speed blitz as a starting move, as you claim the Z fighters don’t either. So why then, wouldn’t you assumption of Kain’s move work on them too?
    _
    Also, you didn’t put @Kara when addressing my points. I feel so left out.

  84. AbsoluteZero July 28, 2015 at 8:58 pm -      #384

    Would it actually be worth requesting the Admin make a final call on TK, in order to have the arguing about the matter cease? Kitten is on one side, everyone else is on the other. And nobody is budging. It might be the only way to actually get a definitive end to that faucet of debate.

  85. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 9:03 pm -      #385

    Kitten is on one side, everyone else is on the other. And nobody is budging. It might be the only way to actually get a definitive end to that faucet of debate.”

    I am not taking sides, but just because one person is all alone in their opinion does not mean that they are wrong and that the masses are right. I don’t think that getting Admin to come in and sweep the issue away is really a good idea. I mean, there is some some possibility that Kitten might convince you all that he is right, that is how debate works after all.

  86. Friendlysociopath July 28, 2015 at 9:03 pm -      #386

    @Zero
    Kitten has made it clear he wouldn’t accept that; apparently if our arguments made sense then he would have to give in. Likewise because none of our arguments make sense to him- we should give in to his.

    This happens to (conveniently) go past the simpler explanation of him being a troll.

  87. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 28, 2015 at 9:08 pm -      #387

    “Good cuz he couldn’t afford an xbox.”

    static.fjcdn.com/pictures/You+got+the+joke+d+thought+that+fjers+would+be_8d423f_3279925.jpg

    I’m just happy that someone got it.

  88. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 9:10 pm -      #388

    So you can take this as you will, but I decided to pull out my PS2 copy of Defiance and look at the manual, which states “Kain’s ceaseless blood-hunger causes his health gauge to drain slowly over time, requiring him to feed frequently to sustain his energy and heal his wounds. When an enemy is vulnerable (either stunned or otherwise incapacitated), Kain can consume its blood to restore his health”
    _
    Now you can claim it’s game mechanics, but the state of enemies and his ability to use Blood Drain seem rather specific. Blood Omen 2 states the enemy has to be dead to drain the blood. Both manuals indicate that Blood Drain and TK are separate abilities.

  89. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 9:15 pm -      #389

    Would it actually be worth requesting the Admin make a final call on TK
    -Hmm… I don’t think so. It isn’t necessary from a factual standpoint; we know KL’s extrapolation on range is faulty. It wouldn’t be satisfying for Admin to make a ruling on it, because that wouldn’t necessarily reinforce what we’ve been saying. But if he were to say our logic is correct and that’s final, that would be very satisfying.
    ~
    It wouldn’t solve the root of the problem, though.
    ~
    @Ramkin- “just because one person is all alone in their opinion does not mean that they are wrong and that the masses are right.
    -That is absolutely true. It just so happens that, regardless of any popularity, Kitten Lord is massively, monumentally wrong.
    ~
    I mean, there is some some possibility that Kitten might convince you all that he is right
    -I do not claim to be a seer, but there is no way that will happen. The things we’re discussing aren’t exactly complicated; we very clearly see what KL is doing wrong. In fact, this has been a repeating cycle for some time now. It isn’t new.
    ~
    “meh, you can win a debate on assumptions” -Kitten Lord

  90. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 9:15 pm -      #390

    @Lowk

    “The description was based soley on the powers themseleves.”

    She was talking directly to Kain and what he can do with it.

    @Aeflinn

    “Dragonball characters can fly, ya know?”

    They can, does not mean they were or are. I do not recall Yamcha flying.

    “Furthermore, “furrows weren’t created” is something that can very easily be explained by fiction.”

    By the same coin people not being able to “percieve” someone could just be “meh, fiction!”

    “Evidence suggests they have better-than-human reflexes, as they’ve caught bullets before.”

    They also consider subsonic speed (Beerus) to be pushing the limits of eachother. Clearly either the writer thinks the muzzle velocities of guns are slow, and writes that into his fiction or what I said before is true, they jsut predict the obvious trajectory of the round.

    @kara

    “Yes, within reason, and within limits.”

    What limits? what limits have been shown in the game? I can name some, but what point is distance even brought up?

    “Whereas we can see the limits and are using that information to work out why he loses.”

    Sorry to disapoint but he does not lose regardless of the range. Even if its only what you believe it is, a few meters his opponents are melee fighters. and their regular blows cannot hurt him either.

    Also you cannot “see” the limits, what limits can you see? there is a difference between a showing, and a limit. If you see Kain straining with effort to TK someone a bit further than he has before thats a shown limit, not conjecture on what could be one like people seem to want to do.

    “You still haven’t shown him TKing things at speed”

    I have not answered this (or have I) because its the wrong question. unless TK travels then speed is irrelevant. Its irrelevent anyway because their not tha quick at all.

    “Everything I’ve looked up on the matter seem to indicate that “blood drinking” and “TK” are two separate abilities.”

    What have you looked up that says this? TK by defintion is essentially moving something with your mind, Kain is doing the same when he moves blood from a distance.

    “You know later in the movie Beerus says he wasn’t using his full power, right?”

    Yes, but we know he was pushing himself further than he was before, which is when he casually beat SS3 Goku remember? it all adds up , and is covered in my super post. All your conjecture on “range limits” is just that at the moment without any real backing.


    “Beerus, and yes, it is. Full power in DBZ means not using full potential, the max of their abilities.”

    This is conjecture. We do not know if Beerus can go faster and his “power input” or “ouput” does not help us decide if he can go faster or slower. We know “speed” is limited in the series. TK is nothing like this, by showings TK has no relevence to distance.

    “Not what I asked. Supes and Thanos, afaik, don’t speed blitz as a starting move, as you claim the Z fighters don’t either. So why then, wouldn’t you assumption of Kain’s move work on them too?”

    The Z fighters are slow even if they do move. Also, If I am not mistaken Thanos has godly regeneration right? What are you asking, if they just stood there and let kain do what he likes could he win? I would have to know more about their powers than I do.

    DBZ characters are far more simple.

    “Now you can claim it’s game mechanics, but the state of enemies and his ability to use Blood Drain seem rather specific. Blood Omen 2 states the enemy has to be dead to drain the blood. Both manuals indicate that Blood Drain and TK are separate abilities.”

    What page? I just read through the Defiance manuel and it does not say they are different. It just say Kain can drain blood from a distance.

  91. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 9:18 pm -      #391

    “It just so happens that, regardless of any popularity, Kitten Lord is massively, monumentally wrong”

    This made me laugh so hard i nearly died. Im totally gonna sue.

  92. Soulerous July 28, 2015 at 9:20 pm -      #392

    This is one of those classic cases where it’s funny because it’s true.

  93. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 9:21 pm -      #393

    “She was talking directly to Kain and what he can do with it.”

    And regarding moving things she was talking about specifically what the power of telekinesis can do. Then mentions distance. Ya just got to deal with it. Distance is a factor in TK. Its not so bad, well maybe if he was fighting someone with a higher provable range maybe it would be.
    ===
    “It just so happens that, regardless of any popularity, Kitten Lord is massively, monumentally wrong”

    I think I just had a two stupid dogs flashback.

  94. Kitten Lord July 28, 2015 at 9:26 pm -      #394

    @Lowk

    “And regarding moving things she was talking about specifically what the power of telekinesis can do. Then mentions distance. Ya just got to deal with it. Distance is a factor in TK. Its not so bad, well maybe if he was fighting someone with a higher provable range maybe it would be.”

    no she consistently says “you”, constantly. She says “you” like 5 times. “you will be able to”, “you will be able to” etc , not that your “tk will be able to”. This is very different.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1AIitGoJBM&t=8m56s

    Here, she goes on about what Kain was tought. What he can do already, what he could do now. All about him, not about the limits of TK itself.

    “well maybe if he was fighting someone with a higher provable range maybe it would be.”

    Your right it does not matter. But I want to argue facts.

  95. Kara Zor-El July 28, 2015 at 9:31 pm -      #395

    “I have not answered this (or have I) because its the wrong question. unless TK travels then speed is irrelevant. Its irrelevent anyway because their not tha quick at all.”
    _
    You don’t know do you? That’s cute. You keep dodging because you have no answer. The question is “Has Kain ever used his TK to stop something like arrows or spells, that move at speed?” The answer is no. As slow as you think the Z fighters are, he has still not shown to stop anything at those speeds, slow as they are. Truth is, he’s only shown to TK things that are at a standstill, or moving a meter per second at best.
    _
    “What have you looked up that says this?”
    _
    As mentioned above. Manuals, which I would consider word of god. They specifically separate the move sets “TK” and “Blood Drain”. Assume all you want Kitten, they’re not the same.
    _
    “Yes, but we know he was pushing himself further than he was before, which is when he casually beat SS3 Goku remember? it all adds up , and is covered in my super post. All your conjecture on “range limits” is just that at the moment without any real backing.”
    _
    Conjecture on your part in realtion to Beerus. He wasn’t using anything close to pushing himself. I don’t remember signs of stress or even sweat beads. He was still playing with Goku.
    _
    “The Z fighters are slow even if they do move. Also, If I am not mistaken Thanos has godly regeneration right? What are you asking, if they just stood there and let kain do what he likes could he win? I would have to know more about their powers than I do.”
    _
    That is exactly what I’m saying. You mention Thanos with his regen, but failed to mention the second character Supes. Come on. Kain has free reign, can do what he wants. Do you propose that he can just as easily Blood Drain, as we now know it’s not TK, these characters?
    _
    “DBZ characters are far more simple.”
    _
    According to your analysis of these characters, which seems to be undercutting them by a long way.

  96. Ninja Lowk July 28, 2015 at 9:37 pm -      #396

    “no she consistently says “you”, constantly.”

    In reference to using TK, the new ability he got him. Hence the exposition about how he can move things from further away with this ability..
    He could only move stuff at close range. With the new power he can do it at great distances. Distances. Distances. Distance. Sorry there seems to be an echo in here. Distances. It’s almost like it trying to tell us something.

  97. Friendlysociopath July 28, 2015 at 9:38 pm -      #397

    According to your analysis of these characters, which seems to be undercutting them by a long way.

    For the record, he has seen scans of Gotenks flying around the Earth and Mercenary Tao throwing his pillar- he has then proceeded to never address them after admitting they exist.
    Probably because they invalidate his entire argument.

    But I want to argue facts.

    Fact- DBZ characters go fast enough that bullet-timers cannot follow them.
    Fact- For that to happen, they must at least be moving the speed of bullets at the least.
    Fact- You have seen and acknowledged scans of the characters going above subsonic- your response was- and I quote
    “So what?”
    So you are wrong Kitten.
    So when you persist in saying they are ‘not’ faster than bullets, you are no only defying us, but your own statements.
    Fact- You cannot believe two opposite ideas.
    You cannot believe fire is warm and cold
    You cannot believe water is both wet and dry
    You cannot believe characters go above the speed of sound and cannot go above the speed of sound.

    The only way to persist in two contradictory beliefs is for you to be extremely mentally deficient, or a troll.

  98. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 9:43 pm -      #398

    “Fact- You cannot believe two opposite ideas.”

    Actually you can, it’s called cognitive dissonance And you do not need to be mentally deficient to experience it.

    blog.allmyfaves.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/LOL-Wall-is-your-one-stop-destination-for-hilarious-captions..jpg

  99. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 9:47 pm -      #399

    Woah… my comment was marked as spam, i didnt even know that that could happen

  100. LadyRamkin July 28, 2015 at 9:47 pm -      #400

    “Fact- You cannot believe two opposite ideas.”

    Actually you can, it’s called cognitive dissonance And you do not need to be mentally deficient to experience it.

« Previous 1 2 3 4 5

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.


Web Design MymensinghPremium WordPress ThemesWeb Development

Vincent Cochetel: Held hostage for 317 days. Amazing Message.

Vincent Cochetel: Held hostage for 317 days. Amazing Message. Watch now.

NASA’s Software Catalog

Yes, now you can build a rocket too - Actually, there is an amazing amount of free software and complete documentation on how to make and perform some amazing feats of science. I'm interested to know what Facts would do with it... Click here to get started!

Mining the Moon

It's going to happen soon - there are a ton to rare Earth Metals on that big old rock in the sky! Check out this infographic!

Michio Kaku: The Universe In a Nutshell

Fantastic video that easily explains physics of our universe: Michio Kaku - Universe in a Nutshell

Raiders of the Lost Ark – Conception Transcribed

Raiders of the Lost Ark - This is an amazing read on the thought process between George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and Lawrence Kasdan as they talk through the concepts of this amazing film. It's practically peering into the thought process of some of the most influential film makers of our day. And amazingly, shows how creative Lucas was.

Help Out Nepal

Finally a good reason to support Destiny.

Modern Gaming

Sad but true.

Curiosity Rover Spotted by Mars Orbiter on Mount Sharp

Humanity is the invading alien now...

Nope

No way I go here alone

17 Rare Star Wars Pictures

To see them, click here

Comic Con 2013 Cosplay Gallery

Just a ton of pictures of cosplayers from the 2013 Comic Con event

Ancient Aliens Map

If you ever watched the show "Ancient Aliens" and wanted a quick reference to where all the locations they mention are at, this is the site for you!

Fictional Universes Database

Soon to be shut down by Google, but here is a great starting point for Fictional Universes

99 Star Wars Pics

Some are cool, some are a bit absurd, but they are all based on Star Wars

Alternate Movie Posters

Something a bit distinct - Check them out

Epic Swiss Army Knife

Not Really...

Future Me

Write yourself an email letter to the future - Future Me

Neil Degrasse Tyson

Star Talk Radio - As always, keep looking up!