Teen Heroes Brawl

video-games-novels-vs-anime-comics

Suggested by Nsl98

Two teams, one made up of Novel/Video Game heroes and one made up of Comic/Anime Heroes encounter each other on Isla Cruces (Pirates of the Caribbean).

They start at the abandoned church, but are allowed to go to the other parts of the island.

The teams are as follows:

Team Novel/VG-

Harry Potter
Percy Jackson
Marche (Final Fantasy)
Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia) 1st time here

Vs

Team Comics/Anime-

Kid Goku (Dragonball)
Rin Okumura (Blue Exorcist) 1st time here
X-23 (Marvel)
Raven (DC Comics)

Who wins?

Thanks to:
Friendlysociopath
Lowk
Commander Cross

Related Posts:



Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.



60 Comments on "Teen Heroes Brawl"

  1. Aelfinn July 14, 2015 at 1:06 am -      #1

    Is Kid Goku specifically him as a child, or just his Dragonball incarnation?

    I know some of the later fights in Dragonball have him fighting fast enough to be invisible, but that might not be applicable here.
    =
    …Although didn’t Kid Goku fight the dude who could travel the world by throwing pillars to where he wanted to go and then jumping on them?

  2. Shadow-Knight July 14, 2015 at 1:13 am -      #2

    Im going to side with team 2 for now. X-23 is a female wolverine(literally taking up the mantle after Logan’s death), Kid goku (is this before or after training with kami?) Can dish out a lot of hurt between his raw physical power/energy attacks and his virtualy indestructible power pole (lets also not forget about that little thing he does during the full moon), add Raven (who is hax in her own right…..especially if she goes full daughter of trigon) and you have a power house team (don’t know the 4th guy though)

  3. Jake_Uzumaki July 14, 2015 at 1:17 am -      #3

    Well Rin’s got fire that can destroy burn both the targets physical form and the soul, he managed to engulf a mountain in flame (though arguable if he can do that on his own at this stage) and he did kill a skyscraper sized squid. If nothing else his flames should cause trouble

  4. Shadow-Knight July 14, 2015 at 1:19 am -      #4

    @aelfinn

    ” …Although didn’t Kid Goku fight the dude who could travel the world by throwing pillars to where he wanted to go and then jumping on them? ”
    —–

    Yes, that was his fight with Mercenary Tao( i think that’s how its spelled) , he actually lost the first encounter. Had to train with master Koran before he could beat him.

  5. Ciridae Hunter July 14, 2015 at 1:40 am -      #5

    Does Percy have all of his hax bull going for him in this match? So far (since I know nothing about Marche or Cress) Percy is the only one who can really cause harm to any of the team 2 members (unless Harry uses the killing curse…if he does, then he can just point and shoot while the others cover him)

  6. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 1:46 am -      #6

    “…Although didn’t Kid Goku fight the dude who could travel the world by throwing pillars to where he wanted to go and then jumping on them?”

    Back when regular superhuman feats were still crazy.
    media.animevice.com/uploads/3/37703/656393-mimg013.jpg
    media.animevice.com/uploads/3/37703/705270-taopillarleap.jpg
    Now it’s all blue haired aliens and star destroying cat people.

  7. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 1:50 am -      #7

    “Does Percy have all of his hax bull”

    Well they are on a island so, there is lots of water if he leads then close enough to the edge.

  8. Ciridae Hunter July 14, 2015 at 2:26 am -      #8

    I meant ALL of it-Styx Enhancements, Vitamins and the like; I assume not, but clear parameters are good ones

  9. Commander Cross July 14, 2015 at 2:27 am -      #9

    My regards on this matter before we start:

    Styx-Enhancements or not and Multi-Vitamins aside,
    Percy and Marche are gonna have to start dealing with X-23 and be quick about it, they can’t leave Raven unchecked either.

    Side B has a case of ‘You can’t kill what you can’t hit’ going on, so just in case it’s best if someone from Side B can take Rin Okumura’s sword away from him, I doubt Rin’s lacking in Unarmed CQC but he gets more bearable to fight without that Sword to worry about.
    That Devil’s son is just ‘Average’ compared to most of the ones I’d know of, and that’s barring FTL Lunatics among them which is banned here.
    Someone from Side A removing Goku’s Power Pole may go a long way as well, though it’s not like Kid Goku’s a sitting duck without it.
    Side A also better hope there’s no Full Moon in sight or otherwise they better end Goku quick.

    If Marche gets everything, Marche is a Magic Knight the last I checked.

    Cress is also a Weapon-Master, if at least to hold out Rin or X-23, Cress is gonna need to be one.
    Cress also fought Teleporters if I recall right.

    Bottom line: If Side A can quickly
    deal with Rin or Raven, Side B’s overall heaviest Damage-dealers by Physical or Supernatural Firepower respectively, Side A can win unless Kid Goku gets nuts.
    X-23’s Regenerating’s a beyotch to deal with, but Transmutating her to something else or hitting her with Auto-kill moves may help deal with her.

    That basically sums up what needs doing?

    Depending on incarnations for Kid Goku intended, a Greek Firebomb or two would go a long way yes, IF Goku gets hit with it.
    It might only divert X-23, but everyone else will feel worse if they get hit.

  10. LadyRamkin July 14, 2015 at 4:41 am -      #10

    What jobs can Marche have?

  11. Nsl98 July 14, 2015 at 7:45 am -      #11

    @Aelfinn
    Is Kid Goku specifically him as a child, or just his Dragonball incarnation?

    As he was during Dragonball.

    So NS, you wanted me to test out my power 😀

  12. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 11:06 am -      #12

    As he was during Dragonball.

    I think they’re asking if it’s Goku in kid form (aka short with tail) or in his teen form (adult sized). Both are in Dragonball.

    What jobs can Marche have?

    Marche can have:
    Soldiers, Fighter, Paladin skills (focused around swordplay, shockwaves with a blade, imbuing sword with different elements)
    Thief, Archer, Hunter, Ninja skills (lots of agility, stealing attacks, awesome aim with powerful bows, ninja magics)
    White, Blue, Black Magic (Healing magic, weird magic, and hurting magic)
    Illusion Magic (Not actual Illusions, just map-wide magic that can’t miss enemies)

    Here’s a list of weapons Marche can use- some of the descriptions would lead to the weapons being very powerful; like a bow that makes the ground tremble when fired.
    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_Tactics_Advance_Weapons

  13. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 11:26 am -      #13

    Cress Albane is a proficient swordsman; learning under his father his entire life. He wears a moderate amount of armor and mixes his swordfighting with kicks and punches to keep his foes off-balance.
    He can add magical energy to his normal attacks to make them into “artes”; I’ll give you a link to a video of his artes list.
    He’s fast enough that some artes leave after-images behind him and in his anime adaption he was strong enough to cut straight through (admittedly unarmored) monsters with a single swing.

    Video of Cress Artes
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=528s3QjvCr0
    Here’s the corresponding list of his artes
    aselia.wikia.com/wiki/ToP_PSX_-_ … ane:_Artes

  14. Nsl98 July 14, 2015 at 11:36 am -      #14

    @Friendly
    Whoa, you can put stuff in other posts?!?! That’s pretty cool….

    Does it let you do that you do that to everybody?

    And it’s Goku’s teen form.

  15. brosky July 14, 2015 at 11:40 am -      #15

    which raven is this? it doesn’t say new 52. ifit is dont think shes much help if its traditional raven that should be more than enough firepower for team 2

  16. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 11:47 am -      #16

    If Marche’s team can keep him alive- he’s entirely able to just spam lethal, un-dodgable magic at his enemies the entire battle. It might not one-shot them but it would definitely not be fun for them.

    Also I forget, when we last discussed Marche was he able to react to lightspeed attacks or no?

    Does it let you do that you do that to everybody?

    Yeah

  17. Nsl98 July 14, 2015 at 12:00 pm -      #17

    @Friendly
    Yeah

    No one is safe…

    Also I forget, when we last discussed Marche was he able to react to lightspeed attacks or no?

    I was one of the people that said yes to that.

    @Brosky
    We go with current incarnation.

  18. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 12:05 pm -      #18

    So, Ravens “Soul-Energy” (the material she’s constantly covered in) hurts even Superboy. He’s barely able to contain the cloak on himself.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64363/4093425-sheath+3.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64363/4093429-sheath+4.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64363/4093430-sheath+5.jpg

    She can also become Ethereal,
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80033/4112938-raven+vs+jon+2.png

    She tanks a hit from Superboys TK (which Superboy claims is mountain busting),
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80033/4112939-raven+vs+jon+3.png

  19. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 12:13 pm -      #19

    She can totally heal a recently killed human that’s nothing but bones,
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64363/4161028-healing5.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64363/4161035-healing4.jpg

    She has TK strong enough to hold all the Titans in Statis,
    i.imgur.com/Olbgf89.jpg

    She can feel a gathering three states away, teleports in, and beats all the cultists (who have automatic weapons),
    i.imgur.com/9wse5OC.jpg
    i.imgur.com/UoyZY16.jpg

  20. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 12:43 pm -      #20

    @Rag
    Is it really ‘tanking the tk’ when he’s clearly just throwing stuff at her when she’s Ethereal?

    Also, I’m gonna need to see more than just a few rocks to say he was mountain busting; specially since she’s pointing out his reasoning is messed up.

    Cress does have a few tricks because he wields the Eternal Sword- a magical artifact that has a few features:
    1) It allows Cress to teleport himself and his team through time
    2) It prevents others from doing the same, both teleportation and time travel. This was the purpose of forging the weapon- every time they almost caught and beat Dhaos he just teleported away and then time traveled.
    3) Cress uses the sword not only for party teleportation- but will teleport himself around the battlefield in addition to his speed for CQC
    4) annnd NS I might’ve been wrong, Cress may have a Time Stop; I forgot Tales of Symphonia and Phantasia are actually the same world and subsequently the same sword.

    Also, Cress’s Artes- like calling down lightning and fire- are not magic. What they are I do not know, but they’re specifically not magic.
    Edit: Well, that’s funny- edit timer is no threat to me after all, HA. That said, totally not doing this ever again; smells like power abuse.
    Right, to explain this point further then:
    Tales characters use TP instead of MP for spells, special attacks, etc. TP is pretty much MP by another name, no real difference. However, Cress can do jack-all against Dhaos with his artes; Dhaos is invulnerable to normal attacks and artes- you need magic to hurt him. This is the canon of the game, not game mechanics, and is the reason Cress and Mint go to the past; there’s no magic in their time so they have to go back to when there was enough mana for magicians to function and recruit Klaus and Arche.
    youtu.be/BGj11NpK4kQ?t=19m12s
    Just gonna point out that laser Cress deflects completely atomized like 4 guys in full plate armor.

  21. pimpmage July 14, 2015 at 12:46 pm -      #21

    Man, I always hope there will be a character that I can support in these group matches. No luck lately. :*(

  22. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 14, 2015 at 12:53 pm -      #22

    “(which Superboy claims is mountain busting),”

    Sounds to me like he’s saying he’s hitting with the force of a mountain, not mountain busting. Kinda like how Flash’s IMP “hits like a white dwarf.” just, instead of white dwarf it’s mountain.

  23. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 1:07 pm -      #23

    @Friendly
    “Is it really ‘tanking the tk’ when he’s clearly just throwing stuff at her when she’s Ethereal?”

    Eh, maybe, the TK didn’t look completely physical to me though.

    “Also, I’m gonna need to see more than just a few rocks to say he was mountain busting; specially since she’s pointing out his reasoning is messed up.”

    I said he claimed it was mountain busting in power. Not that it busted a mountain.
    Superboy has TK lifted an entire city before i think, so it’s definitely not out of question.

    Forexample, if Superman claimed he was hitting with the Force of a planet, would we really have a reason to doubt him?
    It’s blatantly obvious he’s capable of it.

    @CH1
    “Sounds to me like he’s saying he’s hitting with the force of a mountain, not mountain busting. ”

    Hitting with the Force of a mountain would bust a mountain though… So… there’s really no difference,
    Unless the mountain is freakishly dense for its size.

    Not that the mountain was busted in this case, because he wasn’t hitting the mountain… He was trying to hit Raven…

  24. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 1:25 pm -      #24

    Eh, maybe, the TK didn’t look completely physical to me though.

    How… so? TK is almost always just moving stuff with your mind, it still needs to be something you can physically interact with.
    Also, we can see the rocks just going through her; ethereal means you can’t physically touch her yes? That would apply to physical forces as well.

    I said he claimed it was mountain busting in power.

    I didn’t dispute that, I just said I’d need to see more than a few rocks whirling around him to say mountain busting TK although-

    Superboy has TK lifted an entire city before i think

    That does indeed lend some credibility to it.

    Btw, here’s the Reaction Commands Marche has access to- my stance is there’s no reason he can’t have all of them because restricting abilities by class is blatant game mechanics. Supported by Ramza/Marche/Luso never changing their form no matter which class they equip. Unlike in FFV and FFX-2 where the classes are canon changes to what you can do.
    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_Tactics_Advance_Reaction_Abilities
    A few of note:
    Reflex- blocks any physical attack, has a feat of blocking a lightspeed attack and shots from bows that made the ground tremble
    Return Magic- when hit by magic, returns the spell in kind (you do not need to know the spell to copy it and send it back)
    Dragonheart- Casts Auto-life on himself when hurt, so he’ll get back up from anything that doesn’t kill him dead

    Oh, NS, question- does Marche have any Law Cards? It would seem a bit overboard and definitely not quite my mind of fair play- but they are a thing he canonically gains access to.

    I edited my post #20 btw, to explain the “not magic” bit. I’m not doing it again though, tis a slippery slope.
    youtu.be/BGj11NpK4kQ?t=19m12s
    Only thing that was new and not irrelevant was Cress tanking that laser attack- that vaporizes fully armored men to nothing.

  25. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 14, 2015 at 1:26 pm -      #25

    “Hitting with the Force of a mountain would bust a mountain though…”

    Would it be though? I mean, I can hit someone with the force of my fist, doesn’t mean my punches are mountain busting, does it? Unless I’m oversimplifying it.
    =
    “Superboy has TK lifted an entire city before i think, so it’s definitely not out of question.”

    IIRC he threw it out to orbit and that happened on Krypton, where gravity is crazy high.

  26. Nsl98 July 14, 2015 at 2:24 pm -      #26

    @Friendly
    Oh, NS, question- does Marche have any Law Cards?

    No, too OP.

  27. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 2:28 pm -      #27

    No, too OP.

    Figured; it’s pretty much “You can’t use magic cause fuck you I said so”. Except it actually works.

    So, Cress is entirely able to teleport his entire team towards the water to get Percy to his ideal battleground; and he disables Raven’s teleportation just by being on the same world and time as her.
    I don’t think Goku teleporting until well into DBZ, so that’s not an issue; and I know Rin and X-23 don’t teleport.

    IIRC he threw it out to orbit and that happened on Krypton, where gravity is crazy high.

    Crazy high as in the moon or crazy high like depths of the ocean?

  28. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 2:30 pm -      #28

    @CH1
    “Would it be though? I mean, I can hit someone with the force of my fist, doesn’t mean my punches are mountain busting, does it? Unless I’m oversimplifying it.”

    …That’s because the force produced by a human fist isn’t enough to mountain bust.
    If someone hits with the force of a mountain, It implies with a force that equals the weight of a mountain… Which would bust a regular mountain I reckon (Unless it’s more dense that a normal one)

    “IIRC he threw it out to orbit and that happened on Krypton, where gravity is crazy high.”

    He got some help from Kara though I think.

  29. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 2:36 pm -      #29

    @Friendly
    “Crazy high as in the moon or crazy high like depths of the ocean?”

    The moon has crazy LOW gravity…. not high….
    Superboys feat on Kyprton makes it more impressive than had it been on Earth.

    “How… so? TK is almost always just moving stuff with your mind, it still needs to be something you can physically interact with.”

    Superboys powers are very… weird…
    There’s definitely more to them than TK, but it’s the best word to casually describe his hax, since it’s usually just used to smash shit around.
    It’s kinda psionic/telepathy based.

  30. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 2:57 pm -      #30

    It’s kinda psionic/telepathy based.

    Just saying, all I can tell is it looks like TK and it didn’t work for the same reason punching didn’t work; because she wasn’t physical at the time.

  31. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 14, 2015 at 3:03 pm -      #31

    “…That’s because the force produced by a human fist isn’t enough to mountain bust.”

    My bad, I meant “I mean, I can hit someone with the force of my fist, doesn’t mean my punches are fist busting, does it?” Typo on my part.
    =
    “f someone hits with the force of a mountain, It implies with a force that equals the weight of a mountain… ”

    So, if someone hits with the force of something, that means they’re capable of busting it? Again, I could be oversimplifying it, but when you look at American Football or ruby or hockey(any heavy contact sport really)you have guys tackling into each other(and they should weigh roughly the same)without “busting” each other.
    =
    “He got some help from Kara though I think.”

    i.imgur.com/ZaEapCb.jpg

    i.imgur.com/KawXkEa.jpg

    i.imgur.com/nRPIvs7.jpg

  32. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 3:09 pm -      #32

    “and he disables Raven’s teleportation”

    Pretty sure Raven dimension shift, either instead of or in addition to teleporting
    goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/teentitans1a.jpg
    goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/teentitans1b.jpg

    How does the teleport, that is stopped, work in his cress’s universe?

  33. Nsl98 July 14, 2015 at 3:32 pm -      #33

    Wouldn’t Cress disable Harry’s Apparation then?

    Or does it turn off for teammates?

  34. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 3:44 pm -      #34

    How does the teleport, that is stopped, work in his cress’s universe?

    Eh, this is back in the era of, “Stuff just works like that.”
    Dhaos just has a ton of magical power gained from essentially his entire world killing themselves to help him. Beyond that, no idea; he can just teleport, time-travel, and create a space-time force-field that you can’t penetrate.
    Eternal Sword controls all of Space and Time, and so it’s used to stop Dhaos from running to another time, teleporting away, and it turns off his space-time shield on his castle.

    Pretty sure Raven dimension shift, either instead of or in addition to teleporting

    Would you say that’s similar enough to time-traveling to count as EC or not? Either way, Eternal Sword has feats of traveling between dimensions thanks to Tales of Symphonia, so it should be able to block them as well.

    Wouldn’t Cress disable Harry’s Apparation then?

    Well Cress is still able to teleport; I don’t know if it’s just blanket “no teleporting” or if Cress can grant exceptions to it for allies. We’ve never seen Harry apparate around mid-battle anyways so no real loss.

  35. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 4:03 pm -      #35

    @CH1
    “So, if someone hits with the force of something, that means they’re capable of busting it? ”

    It depends on how the objects Weight compares to its Density. But for most cases in nature, yea, it would heavily damage the thing in question.

    Forexample, imagine you, a 70kg human.
    Now imagine you getting hit with a small object, with that same Force.
    The pressure would be immense, and it would rip right through you.

    ” but when you look at American Football or ruby or hockey(any heavy contact sport really)you have guys tackling into each other(and they should weigh roughly the same)without “busting” each other.”

    1. Surface area of impact. Higher Surface Area = Less Pressure.
    2. Human beings by nature can never use their entire weight behind a tackle or hit. Unless you’re literally free falling by gravity.
    3. If a bigger creature were to grab two humans and slam them into each other with an acceleration of 10m/s^2 (acc of gravity), it’s highly likely both would die.

  36. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 4:11 pm -      #36

    “Would you say that’s similar enough to time-traveling to count as EC or not?”

    Raven has a different perception of time but that was it. So no, her soul self just wraps herself and/or others in her soul self and moves it from place to place. To time/space fuckery.
    ===
    “Either way, Eternal Sword has feats of traveling between dimensions thanks to Tales of Symphonia”

    Has it shown or referenced blocking dimensional travel?
    ===
    List of some other things Raven as done that I will try and find them later
    -Mind controlling beast boy and making him change forms.
    -Read minds and emotions.
    -Recently she found out she can straight up pacify people through empathy.
    -Has a spell that put someone to sleep
    -Her perception of time/existence in it is either faster or just different which allowed her to react while in a bomb that slows time.
    -Create clones of herself
    -Summoned her allies to her aid
    -BFR into a different realm
    -Create a fog of Darkness
    -Put a guy in a bubble that stopped him from be able to do magic

  37. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 14, 2015 at 4:18 pm -      #37

    “Now imagine you getting hit with a small object, with that same Force.
    The pressure would be immense, and it would rip right through you.”

    So, for a fist having the weight of a mountain that fist would bust through the mountain of the same weight?
    =
    “2. Human beings by nature can never use their entire weight behind a tackle or hit. ”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2B0-Mi37PE

    Not saying I’d survive being tackled by this guy, but there are those who could. And I’d imagine most of those forces he’s putting out are far above his own weight.

  38. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 4:22 pm -      #38

    Has it shown or referenced blocking dimensional travel?

    Yep, Tales of Symphonia; only game that’s directly tied to Phantasia as the same world. Symphonia has dimension hopping via Eternal Sword and mana links.
    Also, it’s the same game (and consequently sword) where a guy literally splits the world into two different dimensions via the Eternal Sword. Not sure how well that translates to combat though, BFR was not once used in that game so I doubt it would occur to Cress.

    Teen Titans apparently hella-undersold Raven. Then again, they look like they undersold everyone who wasn’t Robin or Beast Boy.

  39. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 4:39 pm -      #39

    “Symphonia has dimension hopping via Eternal Sword.”

    But it did it block anything?
    And do the people teleport through portal or the standard beam me?
    ===
    “Teen Titans apparently hella-undersold Raven.”

    Funny enough teen titans go Raven is OP and the only reason they should have trouble with anything is PIS and comedic effect.
    ===
    So any mind control resistance feats for Books/Games?
    What about against emotional control?
    ===
    Here is the clones thing
    cdn.hitfix.com/photos/3609956/TT-22-2-60488.jpg

  40. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 4:53 pm -      #40

    And do the people teleport through portal or the standard beam me?

    Main cast has a portal, Mithos has the Eternal Sword and just appears wherever he wants without the portals or the flying machines the main people use. He also uses it to stop time once to kidnap a girl. He loses it to Lloyd because they make a new pact with Origin, the spirit that controls the Eternal Sword.

    So any mind control resistance feats for Books/Games?
    What about against emotional control?


    Harry absolutely has mind control resistance feats, I’m kind of thinking that would also go to emotional control; magical mental manipulation is magical mental manipulation so far as I’m concerned.
    Percy I don’t think has feats for resisting that sort of thing, but I could be wrong, it’s been awhile since Percy’s last spree of matches.
    Marche… actually I think Marche does since his game is essentially the entire world being reality warped and him being able to not be affected by it like everyone else was. Plus he also has armor that reflects all magic and will return any that could somehow strike him back at the user should he survive it.
    Cress doesn’t have resistance to mind attacks off the top of my head. I know there was a possession spirit in his game but I can’t recall Cress ever resisting it or anything beyond just fighting it.

  41. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 4:56 pm -      #41

    “So, for a fist having the weight of a mountain that fist would bust through the mountain of the same weight?”

    It would depend on the density of the rock, but under most circumstances Yea, because the pressure created by the first would be thousands of times higher than the pressure applied on the mountain (by the ground) by its weight.

    “Not saying I’d survive being tackled by this guy, but there are those who could. And I’d imagine most of those forces he’s putting out are far above his own weight.”

    The forces he creates may be higher than his bodyweight, but he himself isn’t putting his entire body weight behind those forces. He’s only using a part of his muscles/weight to create those forces.
    It’s impossible for a human to put a 100% of his weight behind a strike, and it’s also impossible for a human to accelerate his entire body at 10m/s^2.
    A fist however, will be using every muscle tendon in it to create the force, and can be accelerated very fast.

    Human bodies as a whole are a horrible example for this in general.
    A mountain/rock doesn’t have the complexity of a human, and neither does a single fist.

    The simple way to answer the question is: would the material survive being hit by its entire weight, at a more concentrated location?
    It’s density/weight.

    Then the second part of the question would be whether the damage caused by question 1 would be enough to cause the entire material to shatter.
    Which is brittleness/elasticity.

    The answers will be different on a case by case basis, but the general result will be in the same ballpark…
    Being able to hit with the weight of something is USUALLY going to be similar enough to its busting force.
    It might be double, triple, half, quarter… But in the long run that’s an irrelevant difference.

  42. Nsl98 July 14, 2015 at 5:02 pm -      #42

    Percy’s been possessed before, in Mark of Athena.

    He had to be knocked out in order for it to go away, like Hawkeye in the Avengers movie.

    So no mind resistance there.

  43. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 5:06 pm -      #43

    On the plus side, Harry should know the spell that cancels out other spells- so he can function as a type of medic/support for his team.

    I think team video game/novel has an uphill battle ahead of them though.

  44. Nsl98 July 14, 2015 at 5:26 pm -      #44

    l has an uphill battle ahead of them though.

    True. Percy and Marche are prolly gonna be doing the heavy lifting, while Cress pulls the teleporting shenanigans and Harry is the back up.

  45. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 14, 2015 at 5:35 pm -      #45

    “Yea, because the pressure created by the first would be thousands of times higher than the pressure applied on the mountain (by the ground) by its weight.”

    So, it’d be more due to the pressure of the fist and less due to the force behind said fist? At least that’s what it sounds like to me.
    =
    “The forces he creates may be higher than his bodyweight, but he himself isn’t putting his entire body weight behind those forces”

    Would that matter though? I mean, overall it’s far higher than anything he could put out on his own. Unless I know less physics than I think I do, but if you were to drop the guy it would still only impact with the force of his weight(F=ma Pierre weighs roughly 200lbs or 90kg gravity is 9.8m/s^s multiply the two together you get 890N which is about 200lbs of force according to a converter I found. Unless I screwed up somewhere). So, it’s still far higher than anything he could put out, even if he used his entire body.
    =
    “Human bodies as a whole are a horrible example for this in general.”

    I figured.
    =
    “would the material survive being hit by its entire weight, at a more concentrated location?”

    So, it’s less about force, and more about pressure?
    =
    “Then the second part of the question would be whether the damage caused by question 1 would be enough to cause the entire material to shatter.
    Which is brittleness/elasticity.”

    I’m sure some materials could survive being hit by their own forces though, like you said, it’d be due to the brittleness and elasticity, wouldn’t it be?
    =
    “Being able to hit with the weight of something is USUALLY going to be similar enough to its busting force.”

    Again, from your previous comments, it sounds like it’s less force and more pressure that would cause it to bust.
    =
    So, what I’m getting at from your explanations:
    1. It’s less force that would cause it to bust, but pressure. So, even if an object had the same force as another one, unless it has a small surface area, it won’t necessarily bust it.
    2. Density, weight, brittleness, elasticity, all have a part to play in it and could still mean that it would take less or more pressure to bust the an object(i.e. you don’t necessarily have to hit glass with the same amount of force as the glass itself weighs since it’s fairly brittle).
    Again, just what I’m getting from what I understand that you’re telling me.

  46. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 5:56 pm -      #46

    “magical mental manipulation is magical mental manipulation so far as I’m concerned.”

    The mind control is done through magic; the other stuff is a natural ability that she to sense and manipulate emotions.
    One is more Dr. Strange and the other is more Professor X

  47. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 6:18 pm -      #47

    “Percy and Marche are prolly gonna be doing the heavy lifting, while Cress pulls the teleporting shenanigans and Harry is the back up.”

    I think Rin might be able to hang with Percy.
    Strong enough to casually lift cars and stops a giant charging demon cat with a headbutt. Said cat wrecks construction vehicles.
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/d3/d3c195836f65fa91ed8bcbcc7336e27ced07803a8a434c079d3b011e.jpg

    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/0a/0ae2df6ddc5b1399085c56e15d775d859399db2673414677f4f7ffbd.jpg

    He can manipulate fire, causing stuff to spontaneously combust.
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/0c/0c57062b8da330ae2997cea04ac4a7d24690677174189b4dbd837ba1.png
    He has enough control to not burn his allies and enough heat to instantly melt metal gates. He used his flames vaporize a giant squid this big
    z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5646/08-035.0/compressed/e002.jpg?v=11335827822

    He recently became capable of creating multiple explosions
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/8f/8f6563c31596a5c40599203349d584107ec89694ec6c2b4aee1fd90a.jpg

  48. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 6:33 pm -      #48

    @CH1
    “So, it’d be more due to the pressure of the fist and less due to the force behind said fist?”

    “Hitting” something always relies on pressure.
    It’s just that pressure always relies on Force.
    So… Yea…

    “I’m sure some materials could survive being hit by their own forces though, like you said, it’d be due to the brittleness and elasticity, wouldn’t it be?”

    The materials density would determine whether or not it breaks.
    The materials brittleness would determine how far that break goes.

    Forexample, a piece of Sponge (a very large piece).
    You could hit it with a thousand Newtons, at a concentrated area, and chances are there would only be a hole through the sponge where you struck it.

    Take a piece of Glass, the same size of the Sponge. Glass by nature is much more dense than Sponge.
    Hit it with the same thousand Newtons, at a concentrated area, and it won’t budge at all.

    Now, go back to the Sponge, and hit it with a hundred thousand Newtons.
    You’ll end up with almost an identical result to before.
    Hole going through it.

    Back to the glass. Hit it with a hundred thousand Newtons.
    The entire thing would shatter.

    Hitting a mountain with the Force equal to its weight would without a doubt under any circumstance overcome its density & cause it to break.
    But whether or not that break would completely shatter the mountain depends on the mountains composition, and would need a much larger Force.

    “1. It’s less force that would cause it to bust, but pressure.”

    Pressure always plays a part in breaking things, but not necessarily in shattering them.

    “2. Density, weight, brittleness, elasticity, all have a part to play in it and could still mean that it would take less or more pressure to bust the an object”

    yea, but generally anything would break if hit by its own weight in a more concentrated area.

  49. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 14, 2015 at 9:26 pm -      #49

    ““Hitting” something always relies on pressure.
    It’s just that pressure always relies on Force.
    So… Yea…”

    Well, technically wouldn’t everything have both? I mean, even a very large surface has an area(isn’t it P=F/A?)so shouldn’t it have pressure, albeit not a very large one?

    For that matter, wouldn’t everything have other components to it(e.g. wouldn’t a punch have force, power, pressure, energy, and other things I wouldn’t know about/don’t recall at the moment?).
    =
    “Forexample, a piece of Sponge (a very large piece).
    You could hit it with a thousand Newtons, at a concentrated area, and chances are there would only be a hole through the sponge where you struck it.

    Take a piece of Glass, the same size of the Sponge. Glass by nature is much more dense than Sponge.
    Hit it with the same thousand Newtons, at a concentrated area, and it won’t budge at all.

    Now, go back to the Sponge, and hit it with a hundred thousand Newtons.
    You’ll end up with almost an identical result to before.
    Hole going through it.

    Back to the glass. Hit it with a hundred thousand Newtons.
    The entire thing would shatter.”

    This is kinda where I have a problem with what you said originally. Now, with the mountain example, I think you would be correct, but going back to the sponge, even if you did hit it with more force than a sponge has, you still probably wouldn’t “bust it” per say, just punch a hole through it. It may just be us thinking “busting” to mean different things, but for me, to “bust” something you’d have to essentially shatter it, and I just don’t think many materials would do that if hit with the same force of what they’re made of. I’m sure you’ll explain it more in your next comment.

    Also, wouldn’t the size and shape of the materials also play a role? I’d imagine a if you had a 100lbs solid block of concrete that it wouldn’t get penetrated(or at least busted)if you were to drop another 100lbs pole like piece of concrete on it as opposed to a flatter rectangular piece of concrete(also 100lbs)which I’d imagine would be penetrated(or busted).
    =
    “But whether or not that break would completely shatter the mountain depends on the mountains composition, and would need a much larger Force.”

    Which is kinda why I have a problem with “force of X means you can bust X as well” comment you made. I don’t think it’s wrong(at least not anymore)I just don’t think it’s 100% applicable to all situations across the board and shouldn’t be used to mean “busting” unless specifically stated or demonstrated.
    =
    Hopefully this isn’t coming off as trollish or argumentative, but I’m genuinely curious and trying to refine my understanding on the subject(s). Although I’m sure by now you’re used to me bombarding you with these type of questions.

  50. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 10:08 pm -      #50

    So it’s looking like team anime/comic is going to take this honestly. The only hope for team video game/novel is for Cress to immediately teleport them to the ocean and have Percy just camp the shit out of the water.

  51. Ragnorke July 14, 2015 at 10:26 pm -      #51

    @CH1
    “Well, technically wouldn’t everything have both? I mean, even a very large surface has an area(isn’t it P=F/A?)so shouldn’t it have pressure, albeit not a very large one?”

    At a certain point the terms become interchangeable.
    But yes, there;s always pressure & there’s always force.

    ” force, power, pressure, energy,”

    Yes to all 4, but we usually only discuss the most prominent one, since all of the rest are byproducts of the largest one.

    ” but going back to the sponge, even if you did hit it with more force than a sponge has, you still probably wouldn’t “bust it” per say, just punch a hole through it. ”

    There will be a point where then Force exceeds the hardness of the material, which will cause it to shatter regardless of how small the surface area hit was.
    So technically, a needle can cause a sponge to shatter, if it makes impact with a large enough Force.

    On the other hand, instead of making the Force ridiculously high, you’d be better off simply using a larger area.

    Essentially, the more brittle an object is, the easier it is to shatter it with a low surface area impact.
    The less brittle an object is, the harder it is to shatter it with a low surface area impact, and you should just use a larger tool to smash it.

    So lets go back to the mountain, lets say it has a mass of about a billion tons.
    The rock at any point on this mountain will have the same density & the same brittleness.

    So if a dude were to punch the mountain with the Force of 10 billion Newtons (equal to the mountains weight), it would vaporize the rock in the vicinity to a near atomic level.
    But for the most part, if wouldn’t affect the rest of the mountain, simply because of the low brittleness the rock has.

    The reason the mountain wasn’t busted wasn’t because the Force was too small, but rather because the surface area hit was too small.
    And due to rocks low brittleness, energy simply didn’t travel through it effectively enough to bust it.

    So now lets take an object 1/4th the size of the mountain. And lets hit the mountain with it, again with the force of 10 billion Newtons.
    This time, the entire Mountain would break apart.
    The pressure at any point on the mountain wasn’t anywhere near as high as when it was hit by the fist. And therefor no part of the mountain would vaporize or be destroyed on anywhere near the previous molecular degree.
    But the mountain would still be broken enough to be considered “busted” (imo)

    The force in both examples was the exact same.
    In one example, the force was concentrated, and therefor absolutely demolished everything in its path, but did a poor job of affecting the surrounding rock.
    In the other example, the force was spread, did less damage, but effectively broke the whole mountain.

    So the actual Force is still a Mountain Busting force, regardless of which example we take.
    Just because the other conditions for busting the mountain weren’t met, doesn’t mean the Force itself wasn’t large enough to potentially bust a mountain.
    It’s not the poor kids fault that his hand is small 😛

    If an objects Weight is proportionally higher than its Density, than being hit by a Force rivaling its own Weight would break it.
    This break would depend on:
    1. Just how large the Force really is.
    2. The surface area of the impact.
    It might shatter, it might not.

  52. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 10:57 pm -      #52

    Here the squid thing
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/2a/2a94caaf71c097a74c009222d215f3f7b4e2119f5e1f5ee4cde6f78a.png
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/b9/b922fce3aef7f82f726b4735d1cea25f74943b70031fa6717dd0c9d9.png
    I think vaprozied might have been the wrong word but there seems to be little to nothing of it.
    ===
    Durability
    Plucked through a rollar coaster
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/93/93e03b4df14292c25ff943a50319543ad284bcccc17fecdd67d897b1.jpg
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/71/713487a08d424d16ed72f3d0848389e91e1fa2734ff2e59c22295431.jpg

    Punched so hard trees nearby on the ground are uprooted
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/ea/eadd26e2c0e5fba1bade3d2b5bef56995a079913a5b80cfc7f00f270.jpg

  53. Friendlysociopath July 14, 2015 at 11:04 pm -      #53

    I think vaprozied might have been the wrong word but there seems to be little to nothing of it.

    Isn’t that the squid in the 3rd panel? Or is it some other monster?

  54. Ninja Lowk July 14, 2015 at 11:31 pm -      #54

    “Isn’t that the squid in the 3rd panel? Or is it some other monster?”

    It was a whale guardian something or other of a nearby island that it was fighting.

  55. sadot06 July 14, 2015 at 11:41 pm -      #55

    I’m siding with team anime/comic. I’m not familiar with Cress and Marche but I know Goku could kill Harry and Percy in a few seconds.

  56. Commander Cross July 14, 2015 at 11:56 pm -      #56

    @Nsl42 at #42

    -___-

    Are you talking about the Horse$hit incidents that makes what happened with a Goddess during The House of Hades look tolerable or even acceptable in comparison?

    Also as noted before, take away Rin’s Sword and I’d start wondering just how strong Rin is without it, at the moment, I’m pretty sure someone in Side A can remove it.

    Does Marche have a Haste spell or any spell that amps up Speeds for that matter?
    If he does, he can cast it on Cress or Percy and some differences may get done.

    No one brought up the Firebolt Broomstick either, which is both sad and shocking but alas no surprise there.

    Can anyone in Side B get properly Frozen?
    I’m aware that at least 1 or two people in Side A has Ice Powers, if they can hit anyone in Side B then they can just take a nod from Sub-Zero and freeze people.
    If it hits and it works, then if little else it’ll be easier to take down folks in Side B that way.

    Also can Marche resurrect recently-slain allies and does Cress have any Life Bottles on him?

  57. Ninja Lowk July 15, 2015 at 1:02 am -      #57

    “just how strong Rin is without it,”

    Physically he is still pretty causally in the multi ton range. Besides that, last I checked; the problem isn’t about taking the sword away from him. It is about getting it back into its scabbard.

  58. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 15, 2015 at 3:58 am -      #58

    “At a certain point the terms become interchangeable.
    But yes, there;s always pressure & there’s always force.

    Yes to all 4, but we usually only discuss the most prominent one, since all of the rest are byproducts of the largest one.”

    Alright, cool. Always curious about those. Now it just makes me wonder how one feat would translate to all of them(e.g. That punch had W force, X pressure, Y energy, and Z power). Is there anything else that would be produced or just those four?
    =
    “So the actual Force is still a Mountain Busting force, regardless of which example we take.
    Just because the other conditions for busting the mountain weren’t met, doesn’t mean the Force itself wasn’t large enough to potentially bust a mountain.
    It’s not the poor kids fault that his hand is small 😛”

    Wouldn’t that make any physical feat(i.e. punches, kicks, tackles, etc)far more impressive if they actually manage to bust the object in question? So, for example, you said even if the fist has mountain busting force behind it, it won’t shatter the mountain due to it not being large enough, but lets say someone does manage to shatter it, wouldn’t that mean the guy who managed to shatter it is putting out for more force/pressure/energy/power/other than the first guy?
    =
    Durabilty feat for Goku(might as well contribute, right?)tankes Piccolo Jr.’s city busting attack(you can see the island they’re on in one of the scans actually).

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3784766-tanks+piccolo%27s+blast+1.png

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3784767-tanks+piccolo%27s+blast+2.png

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3784768-tanks+piccolo%27s+blast+3.png

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3784769-tanks+piccolo%27s+blast+4.png

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3784771-tanks+piccolo%27s+blast+5.png

  59. Ragnorke July 15, 2015 at 10:26 am -      #59

    @CH
    “Alright, cool. Always curious about those. Now it just makes me wonder how one feat would translate to all of them(e.g. That punch had W force, X pressure, Y energy, and Z power). Is there anything else that would be produced or just those four?”

    Force & Energy are created by everything in the universe, all the time. Pressure is a more specific aspect of Force, and Power is a more specific aspect of Energy.
    But that’s all there is to it.

    “Wouldn’t that make any physical feat(i.e. punches, kicks, tackles, etc)far more impressive if they actually manage to bust the object in question? ”

    If it’s a purely physical feat, without external Energy? Yes.

    ” but lets say someone does manage to shatter it, wouldn’t that mean the guy who managed to shatter it is putting out for more force/pressure/energy/power/other than the first guy?”

    Yes. Way more.

    “Durabilty feat for Goku(might as well contribute, right?)tankes Piccolo Jr.’s city busting attack(you can see the island they’re on in one of the scans actually).”

    The thing about DBZ, is almost nothing is ever a Force/Pressure dominant feat, specially not the one you just posted.
    The destruction was caused by a vast release of Energy. Forces & Pressures would just be the byproduct in this case.
    Surface Area & Brittleness isn’t as relevant when dealing with Energy, because Energy transfers from particle to particle & moves around, whereas Forces do not.

  60. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 15, 2015 at 11:54 am -      #60

    “Force & Energy are created by everything in the universe, all the time. Pressure is a more specific aspect of Force, and Power is a more specific aspect of Energy.
    But that’s all there is to it.”

    Isn’t energy just F*d though? Making energy a byproduct of force as well?
    =
    “If it’s a purely physical feat, without external Energy? Yes.

    Yes. Way more.”

    Well, in that case, why don’t we treat them as such as opposed to just saying it was simply just X busting?
    =
    “The thing about DBZ, is almost nothing is ever a Force/Pressure dominant feat, specially not the one you just posted.
    The destruction was caused by a vast release of Energy. Forces & Pressures would just be the byproduct in this case.
    Surface Area & Brittleness isn’t as relevant when dealing with Energy, because Energy transfers from particle to particle & moves around, whereas Forces do not.”

    O, the feat had nothing to do with what I’ve been asking you about, I just wanted to post something relevant since Pimp and Sauro have been getting their panties in a bunch about our off topic convos. I figured I might as well post a few relevant feats, and that’s the highest end durability feat I could think of for Goku before the first major time skip. Although, I think there were a few other minor ones before that.
    =
    Flips over Giant Piccolo,

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120069/3921066-0534656456-idrag.jpg

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120069/3921065-5490324322-idrag.jpg

    Tarbel didn’t feel like calcing it himself on the Topia, but had this to say: “For the Piccolo throwing feat, I think I calculated him to be about 8 tons a while ago. It would require a lot more force than that to throw something of that weight, size, and angle taking into account air resistance, the speed of the throw, and having to throw him while holding just his finger. I don’t really know how or feel like trying to calculating, but for what it’s worth, lifting a 8 ton object 2 meters into the air takes 156.8 kJ of energy, and accelerating a 8 ton object to 4 m/s over 2 meters takes 1.63 tons of force, not taking into account air resistance, which should increase it quite a bit more.”
    =
    Goku moves a giant boulder as a kid before getting any real training with Roshi.

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120069/3826586-0486101793-jimg0.jpg
    =
    Part of their training(which the eventually master)involved being tied to a tree and avoid being stung by bees. While wearing roughly 45lbs shells.

    www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/31/13

    www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/31/14

    They don’t wear them when they first go through it, but it’s part of their everyday training and eventually are able to do it with the shells on. As well as outrunning a giant dinosaur and outswimming a shark.
    =
    Kicks a missile out of the air.

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149746/3784745-mountain+level.jpg
    =
    Threw Piccolo hard enough to bust the building he threw him through.

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111120069/3854184-7405895386-f009..jpg

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.


Web Design MymensinghPremium WordPress ThemesWeb Development

Vincent Cochetel: Held hostage for 317 days. Amazing Message.

Vincent Cochetel: Held hostage for 317 days. Amazing Message. Watch now.

NASA’s Software Catalog

Yes, now you can build a rocket too - Actually, there is an amazing amount of free software and complete documentation on how to make and perform some amazing feats of science. I'm interested to know what Facts would do with it... Click here to get started!

Mining the Moon

It's going to happen soon - there are a ton to rare Earth Metals on that big old rock in the sky! Check out this infographic!

Michio Kaku: The Universe In a Nutshell

Fantastic video that easily explains physics of our universe: Michio Kaku - Universe in a Nutshell

Raiders of the Lost Ark – Conception Transcribed

Raiders of the Lost Ark - This is an amazing read on the thought process between George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and Lawrence Kasdan as they talk through the concepts of this amazing film. It's practically peering into the thought process of some of the most influential film makers of our day. And amazingly, shows how creative Lucas was.

Help Out Nepal

Finally a good reason to support Destiny.

Modern Gaming

Sad but true.

Curiosity Rover Spotted by Mars Orbiter on Mount Sharp

Humanity is the invading alien now...

Nope

No way I go here alone

17 Rare Star Wars Pictures

To see them, click here

Comic Con 2013 Cosplay Gallery

Just a ton of pictures of cosplayers from the 2013 Comic Con event

Ancient Aliens Map

If you ever watched the show "Ancient Aliens" and wanted a quick reference to where all the locations they mention are at, this is the site for you!

Fictional Universes Database

Soon to be shut down by Google, but here is a great starting point for Fictional Universes

99 Star Wars Pics

Some are cool, some are a bit absurd, but they are all based on Star Wars

Alternate Movie Posters

Something a bit distinct - Check them out

Epic Swiss Army Knife

Not Really...

Future Me

Write yourself an email letter to the future - Future Me

Neil Degrasse Tyson

Star Talk Radio - As always, keep looking up!