What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?

What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe-

Suggested by itcheyness

What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?

While traversing slipspace the flood controlled Covenant cruiser Indulgence of Conviction (The Cruiser that brought the flood to Earth in the Halo 3 mission Floodgate) suffers a strange accident. Whether through a fluke of Quantum Mechanics, or the mad designs of some depraved god, an exact duplicate of the ship is created. While the original continues on to Earth, the duplicate is thrown wildly across dimensions and crash lands on the Systems Alliance colony of Eden Prime in the Mass Effect universe during the time period of Mass Effect 2.

There are 2 scenarios here

  1. Through a crazy series of events involving a computer virus somehow combining with the Common Cold, The Reapers get lost in space and do not show up in the Mass Effect galaxy.
  1. The Reapers updated their anti-virus software and ate a bunch of oranges, so computer/cold virus combo had no effect and the Reapers continue on as usual.

Will the Mass Effect races be able to deal with this new threat in time, or will the Flood turn the entire galaxy into an unending hellscape of shambling horrors?

How will this end?

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243 Comments on "What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?"

  1. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 5:04 pm -      #201

    Well since were judging A.I. and this isn’t under the hostility of a normal versus match. I got a question:
    Keep in mind it’s talking about a 29 year ago, outdated, rudimentary A.I.
    Is this impressive?
    “You of all people should understand,” the captain added. “Without rudimentary AI technology we’d all be living under turian rule right now.”
    It was true. Alliance military strategy relied heavily on highly advanced combat simulation programs. Collating millions of variables each second, the simulations would analyze a massive data bank of scenarios, helping to provide constant updates on optimized tactics and strategies to the commanders of each Alliance vessel.


    For the lesser V.i.
    “V.I. process thousands of status reports and react in nanoseconds, no human can do that.”

    What about holding onto and handling 7 zettabytes worth information at once?

    Not asking in comparison to Halo A.I., I already know how ridiculous they get; I’m just curious about whether these showings are actually good or not.

  2. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 5:05 pm -      #202

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “So in all that time-millions of years-nothing would happen to the Rings to make the glass break? No asteroids? No derelict ships containing flood would return? Nothing? They were just all contained and the end?”
    Oh, man, do I really have to explain that Halo’s have sentries? Or that they have a Monitor who keeps things in working condition? Do I have to explain what Guilt Spark’s job was to someone who (apparently) hasn’t played the game? Fuck me.

    Let’s look at what Cortana can do, shall we? Cortana can decipher alien jargon, even top secret alien jargon, in the span of a few hours (a la Halo:CE where she gets into the Halo network without the Forerunner AI knowing.).
    To do this same feat, Edi, one of the more advanced AIs in Mass Effect, has to be at a terminal where in she can access the network she’s trying to hack (as opposed to UNSC AI who can be lightyears away from their target) and can take years to decipher a message… oh and she has a HUGE mainframe, an entire room dedicated to her.
    On top of that, Cortana can do everything else Edi does while doing the decryption.
    Yeah… which one of these is the more advanced, I wonder.

  3. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 5:37 pm -      #203

    Oh, because those defenses worked against the primitive Covenant-oh wait. They didn’t. Work, that is. The Forerunners couldn’t beat the Flood, yet you’re saying they could perfectly-100% contain organisms that begin as spores? Across an entire galaxy? Yea, I’m going to call bullshit on that.

    Cortana is a true AI, whereas EDI is still a limited AI; she is restricted where Cortana has no restrictions. Probably why she began to get so batshit by 4. Comparing limited AI to true AI is like comparing a typewriter with a gaming PC (because no one uses Mac for gaming to my knowledge)

    And when Chief was with the Librarian, did you notice how glaringly bright it was? Chrome paint at work, there.

  4. Super Combine July 9, 2015 at 5:59 pm -      #204

    @Lowk
    “I’m just curious about whether these showings are actually good or not.”

    The 7 zettabyte one is a good processing feat, since that’s like processing the entire World Wide Web and then some. It’s also more data than can be stored on all the modern world’s hard drives (at least from a few years ago).

  5. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 5:59 pm -      #205

    @Ciridae Hunter
    :Oh, because those defenses worked against the primitive Covenant-oh wait. They didn’t.”
    Against primitive Covenant? What? The Sentries weren’t there to kill covenant, they were there to kill Flood, at least until the Monitor gave them other orders. And they did. They cut through Flood infection like knives through butter while Guilty Spark was getting the Master Chief to set the ring off.

    “The Forerunners couldn’t beat the Flood, yet you’re saying they could perfectly-100% contain organisms that begin as spores? Across an entire galaxy? Yea, I’m going to call bullshit on that.”
    Yeah, see comparing Coordinated-Flood, hell even Feral Flood to Spores isn’t a very good comparasion, any more than saying “You couldn’t beat a 30-year old in a fist fight, I doubt you could beat a sperm cell in a fist fight” see how those are kind of not the same thing?

    “Cortana is a true AI, whereas EDI is still a limited AI”
    No true Scottsman falacy? Give me a ‘true’ Mass Effect AI, then, and Cortana, or any Smart AI, will still out preform it. They outpreform Reapers, in most instances.
    —-
    @Ninja Lowk
    I’m not saying Mass Effect AIs are lame, they’d blow us out the water, but the UNSC AIs are better and the Forerunner’s Ancillas are even better than that. Let’s not forget this all started because some people doubted how well the logic Plague would work on the Reapers, after all.

  6. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 7:19 pm -      #206

    So you still show no evidence on how the Forerunners managed to get every single biomass-spore contained. All of it-including Graveminds (which you say are contained in the biomass) are made by the spores multiplying, so why didn’t they infect a blade of grass and grow from there?

    Smart AI doesn’t mean effective-Roland just spouts exposition and monologues the whole damn time we see him, but oh shit he can do calculus! He doesn’t stop the flood in any way but he has proper speaking skills! Ooh! Smart!

    EDI, as hindered as she was by her restricted programming during the Collector vessel mission, was able to wrestle control of an entire ship big enough to house 14 billion humans and then another 10, managed to process exactly where they were on that ship while repelling Collector jamming signals, processed and controlled each passageway while calculating an exit route-all while avoiding detection and using the stealth mode on the Normandy-also while keeping the Collector weapons from blowing the Normandy to hell. What kind of feat can Cortana show that competes with this level of multitasking?

    …you do realize that YOU were the one that said the Graveminds were all in the form of spores in the glass tubes, so I can compare them using the parameters that YOU gave me.

    Also, yes-compared to assimilated Forerunners (the race that is jerked to no end in any scenario) the Covenant might as well be that sperm cell that you mentioned.

    Finally, comparing a full-grown man to a sperm cell isn’t the same as comparing a typewriter with a gaming PC-at its beginning stages a sperm cell is in no way similar to a man; using a toddler in your example would have been more valid. Especially since you really can’t beat a sperm cell in a fist fight since it feels no pain (that we know of)

  7. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 7:44 pm -      #207

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “So you still show no evidence on how the Forerunners managed to get every single biomass-spore contained.”
    Okay, you know how plants have spores? Before they killed over ever other form of Flood (technically, before they killed the Floods food, actually) they took samples of the Flood Spores. And then contained them, like scientists today do every day.

    “All of it-including Graveminds (which you say are contained in the biomass) are made by the spores multiplying, so why didn’t they infect a blade of grass and grow from there?”
    Man, you don’t even know what the Flood need to reproduce?! Fuck. Okay, not just any biomass will do, the biomass the Flood needs needs to have bones with sufficiantly large amount of calcium stores (bones, for the most part) and a nervous system. A blade of grass or a tree has neither of these.

    “Smart AI doesn’t mean effective”
    But Roland can do anything Cortana can do (to an extent, Cortana was made specifically to counter protected software, mind you). BB, another smart AI, can hack an ONI-secured server, fuck with a dumb AI, and read transmissions that take place on Sydney (Earth), while controlling a ship thousands of lightyears, monitoring comms in both human languages and Elite, while running the entire ship. Mass Effect AIs? Even the Geth are severely stupid by comparison.

    “What kind of feat can Cortana show that competes with this level of multitasking?”
    Controlling a vessel, already did that. Pinpoint location, yeah, any Halo game Cortana knows your exact location, even on the Halo, which is so much larger than the Collector’s ship, she was able to hack unnoticed by Guilty Spark, obtain top-secret info, track the Chief such that she knew exactly what Guilty Spark intended to do, while keeping contact with the UNSC both on Halo and off of it. Yeah, that’s much more impressive.

    “you do realize that YOU were the one that said the Graveminds were all in the form of spores in the glass tubes, so I can compare them using the parameters that YOU gave me.”
    There’s only 1 Gravemind and I said the Flood was spores, as in every other Flood except the Gravemind… who was trapped thousands of meters under the ground in his own biomass. I said all of that before.

    “Also, yes-compared to assimilated Forerunners (the race that is jerked to no end in any scenario) the Covenant might as well be that sperm cell that you mentioned.”
    What, in the name of fucking fuck, do the Covenant have to do with this? Oh, because the sentries didn’t attack them? If that what you mean? Because, as I likewise explained in an earlier post, they weren’t attempting to until after they let out the Flood.

    “Finally, comparing a full-grown man to a sperm cell isn’t the same as comparing a typewriter with a gaming PC”
    No, its a perfect analogy. A Flood Spore is nothing more than… a Spore (get it? That’s why its called a spore.) Flood at the Coordinated stages are leaps and bounds upove even human understanding (at an individual level, if you mashed up ever single human ever and allowed them all to have the same thoughts, feelings, everything, then humanity would know what the Flood is like.)

  8. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 7:50 pm -      #208

    @Ciridae Hunter
    Oh, and because I feel you might ask how big the Halo is compared to the Collector Base, the Collector Base is approximately 4 km long and 500 meters in diameter [X]. Alpha Halo (where Halo:CE takes place), hasa diameter of 10,000 km and a surface area (the area along the inside of the ring, livable space) of 318 km. Like I said, it is so much bigger it makes the feat of Cortana keeping track of the Master Chief that much better.

  9. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 8:58 pm -      #209

    My phone has the same capabilities as Cortana-it’s called GPS-which isn’t really impressive since Chief carries her around all the damn time save for one or two times and the Ring doesn’t jam anything. At all. All of those feats were individual tasks that Cortana did throughout the entire series-EDI did all of that stuff that I mentioned DURING that ONE mission while she was actively fighting the Collectors for control of the Normandy and the damaged Collector vessel. Cortana seems to only be able to pinpoint single tasks-and Roland shows no useable feats, so he’s just a VI with a personality. Cortana seems to be incapable of processing data and using it like EDI can and EDI was built with a lot of restrictions in her programming.

    Calcium isn’t found only in bones, you realize-it is in the crust of a lot of planets. I’m sure one of the Forerunners knew that, too. But you don’t, so fuck it you must be right!

    The comment about the Covenant was a response to one of your earlier comments, but please-ignore your own points some more.

    And they do know about the hive mind. Rachni, remember?

  10. Super Combine July 9, 2015 at 9:05 pm -      #210

    @Sokogeki
    “and a surface area (the area along the inside of the ring, livable space) of 318 km”

    Actually that’s surface width. The Halo ring’s surface area is a little under 9,985,200 km2. To give a more visual idea of the size, that’s about the same surface area as the USA.

  11. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 9:19 pm -      #211

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “My phone has the same capabilities as Cortana-it’s called GPS-which isn’t really impressive since Chief carries her around all the damn time save for one or two times”
    Lol, and all hardsuits have electronic signatures that EDI can pick up on but that’s not the same thing at all.

    “All of those feats were individual tasks that Cortana did throughout the entire series-EDI did all of that stuff that I mentioned DURING that ONE mission ”
    False, all of the things I mentioned in that previous post where from a single mission, and the Master Chief wasn’t hooked up to her by any way either. All while actively fighting against, and hiding from, a Forerunner AI that controlled the entire ring plus all of the Sentries, and did it on a much, much larger scale.

    “Cortana seems to only be able to pinpoint single tasks-and Roland shows no useable feats”
    Completely ignore BB? Alright. What about Juliana, another ‘smart’ AI, that kept a collection of asteroids together (do I need to mention all of the impossibly tiny calculation that need to go into keeping a collection of hollowed out rocks in close proximity together for years?) while she was rampant, while doing that she hacked a Covenant communication, then hacked an ONI pelican, and then she perfectly calculated how to throw asteroids from space onto a single city. But, by all means, focus on the lest fleshed out AI.

    “Calcium isn’t found only in bones, you realize-it is in the crust of a lot of planets. I’m sure one of the Forerunners knew that, too. But you don’t, so fuck it you must be right!”
    Sigh. Yes, because any amount of calcium will do, not like I directly mentioned bones for a reason. Fucking hell.

    “The comment about the Covenant was a response to one of your earlier comments, but please-ignore your own points some more.”
    I have mentioned the Covenant twice; Once as a reason for why the Gravemind didn’t just lure in more biomass and twice for being the cause of the outbreak of Flood. Neither of those you were directly reference, apparently.

    “And they do know about the hive mind. Rachni, remember?”
    Lol, yep, you’re comparing a galactic Hivemind with a solar system-spanning Hivemind. See what wrong with that there? Not that that’s what I was even talking about. You said ‘How can Forerunner’s quarantine Flood spores if they can’t even beat Coordinated Flood
    (except much more ignorantly because you don’t know anything about the Flood) to which I responded with the man-sperm analogy (because the difference between a hundred spores and a coordinated flood is the difference between a hundred sperm and a man.)

  12. Karen Starr July 9, 2015 at 9:19 pm -      #212

    www.gizmag.com/kuratas-suidobashi-megabots-giant-robot-battle-2016-gundams/38352/ off topic but it’s too awesome to not bring up.

  13. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 9:21 pm -      #213

    @Super Combine
    Oh, okay, thanks :)

  14. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 9:27 pm -      #214

    “www.gizmag.com/kuratas-suidobashi-megabots-giant-robot-battle-2016-gundams/38352/ off topic but it’s too awesome to not bring up.”

    Soon we will make Robot Jox a reality.

  15. Epicazeroth July 9, 2015 at 10:20 pm -      #215

    @Sokogeki: “Yeah, that’s much more impressive.”
    No, it’s not. That’s like, three things. It might possibly be equal, but it’s not “much more impressive”.

    “Lol, and all hardsuits have electronic signatures that EDI can pick up on”
    OK, so both tracking feats are meaningless. EDI still has much more multitasking ability than Cortana.

    “kept a collection of asteroids together”
    1) How close?
    2) Were they moving while she did that?

    “and then she perfectly calculated how to throw asteroids from space onto a single city”
    So she has the same ability as any modern satellite. Good to know. You do realize modern humanity can hit stuff in and from space, right?

    “because any amount of calcium will do, not like I directly mentioned bones for a reason.”
    You know that planets have more calcium than bones, right?

    “Lol, yep, you’re comparing a galactic Hivemind with a solar system-spanning Hivemind.”
    You do realize the Rachni almost took over the galaxy, right? And at one point the Queen uses an Asari to talk to you from across the galaxy.

  16. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 10:25 pm -      #216

    On the topic of the second scenario, with the arrival of the Reapers. I’m… not sure that’d help. As the ending of Mass Effect 2 states, Reapers are comprised of biomass. I’m not sure how infection would work, or if it could.

    “Lol, yep, you’re comparing a galactic Hivemind with a solar system-spanning Hivemind.”

    Irrelivant. You argued that they weren’t familiar with the concept of a Hivemind. They are. Both the Rachni and Geth are hiveminds. Scale doesn’t mean they’re not aware of the concept. And, as is stated by Epicazeroth, the Rachni arn’t exactly pushovers.

  17. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 10:26 pm -      #217

    “Lol and all hardships have electronic signatures…”

    And Chief’s half-ton suit doesn’t? keep in mind Alliance soldiers had been captured by the Collectors, so that’s a whole slew of signatures. And Husks have their own signatures. And the Collectors. And all of them are in a space that’s smaller than the Rings (which aren’t as densely populated by things that use electricity).

    And once again you fail to mention how high-quality the Forerunner AI is. I asked the quality of them a while ago and you just went off about Contenders or whatever and I kept griping about the Titanic or something. Forerunner AI are obviously flawed to a ridiculous extent (as we saw by the whole “our race is dying” phase of the Forerunners)

    “Fucking hell”

    So instead of saying “whoops-my bad” you curse? Well-still doesn’t change the fact that the spores could have grown using the calcium in one of the many planets with it in the crusts, so…

    By “actively fighting” do you mean that she was hacking Forerunner tech while avoiding being controlled by the other AI? Was she being jammed in any way? Was she in shooting range? Was she protecting Chief from being sealed in an area to die?

    A hive is a hive no matter how big-so yes, I am comparing the two. And they’ve dealt with the Thorian, so spores and airborne infection is easy enough.

    Once again, a man can’t punch a sperm or anything microscopic-I appreciate the patriotic spirit, but that’s not how real life works. You missed the point of me comparing a single-function typewriter with a miltifunctional PC. EDI compared to Cortana, respectively.

  18. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 10:39 pm -      #218

    @Epicazeroth
    “No, it’s not. That’s like, three things. It might possibly be equal, but it’s not “much more impressive”.”
    Yep. Its the same “three things” that EDI did on a much grander scale, making it better by definition.

    “EDI still has much more multitasking ability than Cortana.”
    Prove it. I have BlackBox on the brain (since I enjoy him more than Cortana) so I am using that as a basis for what ‘smart’ AIs can do. BB, without even trying, can hack ONI from a million lightyears away, navigate a ship covertly, keep the ship in running over, monitor hunders of channels all at once speaking any number of human and Elite languages, plan a trajectory into slipspace, and operate as a single unit (in case of being used like Cortana, inside a Spartan) without any problems. Keep in mind, Cortana is more advanced than BB.

    “1) How close?
    2) Were they moving while she did that?”
    1) How close together? That’s not clarified, I’m assuming more close than further apart (though further apart would definitely make the feat much better) the asteroids weren’t touching, or anything.
    2) Yes. They are asteroids in space orbiting a planet that, itself, was orbiting a sun.

    “So she has the same ability as any modern satellite. Good to know. You do realize modern humanity can hit stuff in and from space, right?”
    Oh, I forgot to mention that the Rubble (the city made of asteriods that she was keeping together) was falling about as she started to throw the asteroids, and that was more more than 7 years old, well past her operational years.

    “You know that planets have more calcium than bones, right?”
    In the same concentration? Because… it has to be some exact amount. Like, there’s a reason grunts and jackals don’t get infected.

    “You do realize the Rachni almost took over the galaxy, right? And at one point the Queen uses an Asari to talk to you from across the galaxy.”
    The Gravemind does that too. Actually, it does it from further away. So, not exactly galaxy-to-solar system ratio, intergalactic-to-galactic would have been better.

  19. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 10:51 pm -      #219

    One thing. I fail to see how AI doing anything over a great distance is a feat. They’re AI. They’re computers. MY EMAIL CAN SEND MESSAGES ACROSS THE WORLD! Impressive? Sure. Also incredibly mundane, because, y’know. That’s how the internet works.

    If anything, you’re just feating the speed of the internet connection. Sure, having a connection that goes over a few million lightyears is impressive, but all the AI really is, is a program running on it. It’s not actually reaching that far. Where I am living currently, I can access google. If I went to the other side of the planet, with internet, I could still access google.

    “In the same concentration? Because… it has to be some exact amount. Like, there’s a reason grunts and jackals don’t get infected.”

    Alright. Prove that any species in Mass Effect, other than humanity, could be infected. They don’t share human biology.

  20. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 10:53 pm -      #220

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “And Chief’s half-ton suit doesn’t? keep in mind Alliance soldiers had been captured by the Collectors, so that’s a whole slew of signatures. And Husks have their own signatures. And the Collectors. And all of them are in a space that’s smaller than the Rings (which aren’t as densely populated by things that use electricity).”
    I said that more in mockery of your whole “EDI can do X! Cortana can do X too? Well so can my phone” argument. Okay, are you saying that the Rings, huge constructs with hundreds of thousands of electronics needed to just keep the thing going, is less electric-pulse heavy than a ship a that’s a peanut in comparason? Really? Plus all the sentries, the monitor. Yeah.

    “And once again you fail to mention how high-quality the Forerunner AI is.”
    This whole argument about Cortana is my argument. The Didact, upon first seeing Master Chief and Cortana, thought they were primitive in comparison to Forerunners, this tells us that however good Cortana is, is primative to how good Forerunner Ancilla’s are. And Contenders are AIs built off thousands of other AIs that, by them selves, can control hundreds of other AIs.

    “So instead of saying “whoops-my bad” you curse?”
    My bad? You not inferring “hey maybe he mentioned bones for a reason” is my fault? Oh, alright, my bad.

    “the spores could have grown using the calcium in one of the many planets with it in the crusts, so…”
    No… it couldn’t off… it was in containment… for the fifth time.

    “By “actively fighting” do you mean that she was hacking Forerunner tech while avoiding being controlled by the other AI? Was she being jammed in any way? Was she in shooting range? Was she protecting Chief from being sealed in an area to die?”
    More like destroy her but yes. Yes, No. Yes. Well Cortana was tracking Chief over the much bigger Halo, she was hacking Forerunner security programs, evading detection from the Monitor, and she was tracking enemy units while they closed in on the Master Chief while also communicating with other UNSC parties.

    “And they’ve dealt with the Thorian, so spores and airborne infection is easy enough.”
    By ‘they’ you mean Shep and Co? Because they make up the bulk of the Alliance. Did they even mention the Thorian in canon? I didn’t on my playthrough.

    Holy crap. You don’t even know why the whole analogy started. Okay, I’m dropping that. Analogy wasn’t important to the AI debatee.

  21. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 11:00 pm -      #221

    @Absolute Zero
    “One thing. I fail to see how AI doing anything over a great distance is a feat.”
    Its not just one act, like sending an email, and it shows, or goes to show, that AI can work over these distances, the AI in Mass Effect can’t (or don’t), even the Geth keep a hub nearby. None of the range (or are shown to have the range) that UNSC AI have, and can function at.

    “Prove that any species in Mass Effect, other than humanity, could be infected. They don’t share human biology.”
    Do they have bones? Do we have any reason to believe they don’t have bones with the same basic make up, that is to say, do we have any reason to think any of their bones are like birds bones (which is a fan-theory why Jackals can’t get infected, hollow bones)? Youd need a reason to think they can’t be since their bones are really explained. Add Salarians to that list, their bones are mostly cartilage (as I’ve just read, more races will be added to the “uninfectable’ category as I look it up.

  22. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 11:06 pm -      #222

    After reading up on the races biology, there is no reason to assume their skeletons vary too much in chemical formation from humans. Differences are noted, as is the case with Salarians, and so its safe to assume other differences within the other races would also be noted. Since none arise, its reasonable that their skeletons are similar to human’s, as similar as Elites’ and Brute’ anyway.

  23. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 11:19 pm -      #223

    @Sokogeki

    “Its not just one act, like sending an email, and it shows, or goes to show, that AI can work over these distances, the AI in Mass Effect can’t (or don’t), even the Geth keep a hub nearby. None of the range (or are shown to have the range) that UNSC AI have, and can function at.”

    In Mass Effect, they can’t. They’re not allowed to. AI are illegal. There’s no huge infrastructure to allow them to reach that far.

    “None of the range (or are shown to have the range) that UNSC AI have, and can function at.”

    I still don’t see how that’s relevant. The AI in Halo have better infrastructure. AI are ultimately just programs, they can only reach where there is infrastructure. The Geth need to keep hubs around, specifically because the Mass Effect universe went apeshit about AI, and there’s no enormous infrastructure for them.

    Biologically, Hanar would likely be immune. That’s not the most helpful thing though.

    Lastly, the Rachni are a fantastic example of spread. They pulled the -exact- thing that the Flood is said to be capable of in the Mass Effect universe. From one point of incursion, they exploded.

    So, yes. The Mass Effect universe has had experience with it before. They may even lose, but, I stick to the Asari being the last race standing.

  24. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 11:34 pm -      #224

    @Absolute Zero
    “In Mass Effect, they can’t. They’re not allowed to. AI are illegal. There’s no huge infrastructure to allow them to reach that far.”
    And that aids in their being better. But even ignoring that, hacking ONI, continually keeping that back door open, keeping a ship running, navigating a ship, monitoring hundreds of comms, doing thousands of calcs every nanosecond, monitoring the crew (BB does this a lot), ‘smart’ AI are better than Mass Effect AI.

    Yeah, Hanar would immune, they lack a spine, so they probably don’t have calcium in the needed quantities to support the Flood.

    The Rachni? Sure. Yeah, imagine if the Rachni could revive fallen troops, could increase their numbers by taking fallen enemies, and would grow smarter with each enemy down.

    They would lose. The Asari I could see lasting the longest, easily, their biotics would be a bitch for the Flood to use effectively and would likely take hundreds of absorbed Asari to master it.

  25. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 11:45 pm -      #225

    “the AI in Mass Effect can’t (or don’t)”

    EDI does note that her secondary body should remain within tightbeam range for optimum control. So as long as she has access to ftl communications she should be able to control it. However the further the body is from her mind(?) is she might experience some delay.
    It seems to be more of a communications technology thing rather then the A.I. themselves.

    When the reapers are controlling the cybernetics in a body, for example Grayson from the novels, they were still outside of the galaxy. I think they use a different method of communication; possibly the a method like their creators except instead of the orb they use their tech.
    ===
    At any given time EDI is

    Maintaining two bodies(one ship/one platform)
    Which is kind of good considering, well, have you seen how modern robots act. We take for granted how easily we move; up until we try and make something mimic us.
    Which is made better by the fact that she can engage in open combat.

    On the ship front she is constantly keeping track of the ships many part like the engine, electronic systems, medical, etc. She has also displayed the ability to run it automatons without a crew so that kind of adds to the load. I don’t know if it active or passive but she also has to maintain the ships electronic countermeasures as well since that was one of her one of her primary functions.

    She seems to keep track of information traffic, has conversations with the crew, constantly modifying her internal porcesses(aw she wants to love), calculating methods about how to combat the reapers(considering old AI were looking at handling millions of varibles a second), and looking up information on how to be human or whatever happens to be on her mind.
    ===
    I mean I know she’s no halo A.I.(I think those guys can run entire planets or cities right?).
    But she is pretty good.

  26. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 11:48 pm -      #226

    “The Rachni? Sure. Yeah, imagine if the Rachni could revive fallen troops, could increase their numbers by taking fallen enemies, and would grow smarter with each enemy down.”

    Reasonably sure that’s what happened. The salarians entered the system with the Rachni in it, and the Rachni immediately captured them, reverse engineered all of their technology, and set out on a road trip across the galaxy to discover the true meaning of friendship. They’re mind readers, essentially. They get smarter just by being around their enemies. They only lack the resurrection. And i’m NOT entirely sure they lack that. I thought the Queen had manipulated corpses before.

    The Asari are a nightmare of an enemy to have. The entire population is biotically gifted. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the Reapers didn’t even attack them head on, it was deemed such a threat. The only way I see the Asari going down, is indirect infection.

    I’m also yet to see the method of dealing with the Reapers.

  27. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 11:57 pm -      #227

    @Ninja Lowk
    No doubt, she is amazing if we look at her without comparing her. Any one of these AI’s could, if they interacted with us was we are today, royal ruin our shit. Halo AIs can, yes, turn off cites, run cities, run entire planets even.
    —-
    @Absolute Zero
    Didn’t the Rachni queen talk to Shepard through corpses on Venesia and then on that mission with Grunt in ME3? But I don’t know if her ability would let her actually control them beyond that.

    “I’m also yet to see the method of dealing with the Reapers.”
    Logic plague would make the Reapers serve the Flood, that’s… kind of a defeat, right?
    Aren’t the Reaper’s made with some biomass, though? Isn’t that the whole reason for the collectors in ME2?

  28. Ciridae Hunter July 10, 2015 at 12:11 am -      #228

    Not really sure if the Reapers are made with the same things that make up normal machines and organics; a lot of the Codex entries say they are made with unreconizeable alloys or using unknown technology-I would assume so, but then they can survive in void space, so it’s a gray area

  29. Ninja Lowk July 10, 2015 at 12:19 am -      #229

    I thought they only used the process materials to store the essence or whatever of the species but are made of metal. Possiblely extracting the basic elements of an organic. Sort of like what they do to husk.

  30. Sokogeki July 10, 2015 at 12:22 am -      #230

    Legion says “[Reapers are] billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies” [X]. Mac Walters, the writer of Mass Effect, even said “each Reaper is created from a unique species and as we saw at the end of Mass Effect 2, the core of each Reaper is designed in the likeness of that species” [X] implying that each Reaper is a shell of metal wrapped around an organic core.

    Given all of this, I think its safe to say that, if the logic plague didn’t get them, the actual biological Flood infection would.

  31. AbsoluteZero July 10, 2015 at 3:12 am -      #231

    “Mac Walters, the writer of Mass Effect, even said “each Reaper is created from a unique species and as we saw at the end of Mass Effect 2, the core of each Reaper is designed in the likeness of that species”

    That in no way means that they’re internally biological. Just that Reapers often look like other species, usually ones they’ve annhilated, or, intend to. Which is the case in Mass Effect 2, which features an unfinished humanoid Reaper. Most Reapers are based off the species known as Leviathan, their original creators.

    “Legion says “[Reapers are] billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies”

    Wasn’t there an earlier arguement that Halo AI are better because they’re organic minds turned into AI? I could swear that was a thing. Because if so, Reapers are -that- times a billion. It doesn’t mean that they’ve literally got billions of brains hooked up inside them.

    I don’t see biology being their downfall.

  32. Sokogeki July 10, 2015 at 3:25 am -      #232

    @AbsoluteZero
    “”That in no way means that they’re internally biological.”
    It actually does. It implies Reapers are a shell of metal around biomass. That’s exactly what it says.

    “Most Reapers are based off the species known as Leviathan, their original creators.”
    Yes, on the outside. That’s what Legion’s quote is saying. Reaper’s are biomass wrapped in metal. There are two canon sources telling us this.

    “Wasn’t there an earlier arguement that Halo AI are better because they’re organic minds turned into AI?”
    Hm… I didn’t say Halo AI’s were better because they were based on organic brains, I said they were better because they can do hundreds of thousands of complex actions all at once over vast distances with no lag. But no, never that they were better based on being organic minds made into AI. But, hell, even if that was an argument, that wouldn’t matter here. That would have been about the logic plague whereas this is a biological infestation, two different methods.

    “It doesn’t mean that they’ve literally got billions of brains hooked up inside them.”
    Not literally… well, maybe literally. If the human Reaper is any indication of how that process usually goes, then yeah, they’d have billions of brains.

    “I don’t see biology being their downfall.”
    Its just another method open to the Flood. The Reapers would be attacked on both fronts, at this point. The GraveMind would be able to infect the Reaper forces by talking to a husk, implanting the code there and sending it to whatever was controling that husk where it would continually self replicate until the Reaper was under the Flood’s thumb, and then it would spread (whether the Reaper intended it to or not) into the other Reaper’s on the same network. Even if the Reapers could shut one Reaper out of the loop (which you’d have to prove to be the case), the Gravemind and its Key Minds now know everything that Reaper knew.

  33. AbsoluteZero July 10, 2015 at 3:53 am -      #233

    @Sokogeki

    You’re confusing the word ‘mind’ with ‘brain’ one, when in fiction, doesn’t inherently imply the other. That’s the point of AI. Technology is it’s brain. Neither of those quotes imply that they’re organic.

    Likeness doesn’t mean that they’re internally organic, it means that they’re similar. As in, appearence. That’s the point.

    Likeness, meaning: the fact or quality of being alike; resemblance. the semblance, guise, or outward appearance of.

    They -look- like the species. They’re not actually biological. They’re minds, put into machines. The (Poorly recieved) movie Transcendence did it. Mind born of biology, but was certainly, not biological.

    Also, they’re not biomass wrapped in metal. We’ve been inside Reapers in the games. We -know- they’re metal. They’re starships with minds and malice.

    Onto Legion’s comment, “Legion says “[Reapers are] billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies”

    Uploaded. At best, you’re dealing with a species which has transfered their mind into a fully mechanical body. Not a biological being wrapped in metal. In fact, even the process in which they harvest worlds implies they don’t keep any brains. They -liquify- those they take.

  34. Ninja Lowk July 10, 2015 at 3:54 am -      #234

    Well it’s not in the heart or brain. One is the supercomupter of supercomuters. The other is a generator.
    Also looking the process doesn’t seem to be much organic anywhere
    img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131009051548/villains/images/d/d1/Humanreaper.jpg

    Like I said I think the basically do what they do to husk where they drain out most of the biological in the form of what they are made up off.

  35. Ninja Lowk July 10, 2015 at 4:00 am -      #235

    “Uploaded. At best, you’re dealing with a species which has transfered their mind into a fully mechanical body”

    Just like to note, They found a ship controlled by an AI that held in it a race of people who had uploaded their minds into virtual world 8,000 years ago.
    So it is a thing in the universe.

  36. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 10, 2015 at 4:29 am -      #236

    “Like, there’s a reason grunts and jackals don’t get infected.”

    They do in Halo Wars.

  37. AbsoluteZero July 10, 2015 at 10:04 am -      #237

    Also, sudden thought. What’d happen if the Reapers decided to jack their indoctrination fields up to the max? It’s stated that such a thing would shatter the minds of those in range, and leave them mindless puppets for the Reapers. Seeing as the Flood force is organic by nature, they fit the criteria to be affected. And the lack of inherent personality between each unit of the flood hugely decreases downsides in using the method. My point being, the Reapers could potentially turn the Flood in on itself.

    While i’m sure there’s scoffing at the prospect of that, there’s just as much scoffing at the prospect that the Reapers could be so easily dominated. Why is one galactic scourge so easily controlled, but not another? Especially since the Reapers are not biological in nature.

    Reaper indoctrination also works across huge distances, is incurable, and has never been resisted. The Illusive Man was indoctrinated, and he’d never even been near a Reaper until the endgame of ME:3. Indoctrination would also allow Reapers to potentially field the strongest possible threat AGAINST the Flood. They’re capable of using it to unite the other biological beings, and have them function at their full capacity. The Flood would struggle making use of Biotics? The Reapers won’t.

    Is it in the Reaper MO to blast worlds to smithereens? Considering the nature of the Flood, I’d imagine they’d easily perform a global bombardment on any infected world. Their goal is to annhilate organic life, and the Flood is an organic lifeform which continuously propigates itself at an alarming rate. Could the Reapers blatantly one shot a planet? Maybe not. But an in numbers, sustained bombardment? Totally viable.

    Even IF they’ve got some aspect of themselves to be biologically affected (They don’t) they’ll never have to leave the vaccuum of space. Even messing with their mental state via the stated, ‘logic plague’ could be horrifically hard. After reading up on it, it relies heavily on having a Key Mind engage the target in conversation. The Reapers arn’t known for being remarkably chatty, bar a conversation with Shepard, and manipulating their puppets. But, hm. What is the other inherent effect of the logic plague? Rampancy? A bit late there.

    Upon creation, the Reapers -immediately- turned on the Leviathan, those that weren’t exterminated were forced into hiding. Keep in mind, the original purpose of their creation was to keep peace between organics and non-organics. You don’t get much more of a one eighty.

    Also, since this is taking place in the Mass Effect 2 era, the Reapers are still at full strength, only missing Sovereign. Harbinger could wage a war against the flood without even leaving Dark Space, through the Collectors.

    What I’m saying is, I don’t see why the Reapers wouldn’t be less of a -total nightmare- for the Flood to deal with. The Flood also arn’t the only ones capable of altering the other races to fight for them. The Reapers have Husks, Cannibals, Banshees, Scions, Abominations, Brutes, and the list goes on. Keep in mind that even though many of those things are biological, like most everything the Reapers alter, they’re internally mechanical puppets. Infecting them biologically won’t do crap. You can SEE the metal jutting out of them.

    There’s even a case of the Reapers forcing a body to function against it’s biology, in Saren. After his Death at the end of the first Mass Effect, the Reapers continue making him move and fight by manipulating his entirely mechanical bone structure. And none of these things, like the base Flood, have minds. They’re all just puppets for the Reapers.

    Nobody has resisted the Flood, sure. But nobody has resisted the Reapers either.

  38. Ninja Lowk July 10, 2015 at 12:53 pm -      #238

    “Also, sudden thought. What’d happen if the Reapers decided to jack their indoctrination fields up to the max?”

    They’d fry brains using electromagnetic fields.
    ===
    “The Illusive Man was indoctrinated, and he’d never even been near a Reaper until the endgame of ME:3.”

    Jack got the exposded at the end of the first contact wa. tried to save his friend from a reaper artifact that flash transformed people into hulking husk. He failed and that is why he has glowing eyes. That guy has potentially been manipulated since before the games started.

  39. Sokogeki July 10, 2015 at 1:18 pm -      #239

    Alright, so, obviously dropping the biomass argument, that was a failure on my part.

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets
    “They do in Halo Wars”
    Do they? I’ve only played Halo: Wars a handful of times, sorry if I misremember, but I don’t recall seeing them.
    —-
    @AbsoluteZero
    Lost’s of problems with this. First, let’s tackle indoctrination. The hivemind of the Flood is a lot stronger than the hivemind of the Rachni, its not like the song of the Rachni but a brutal marching order, indoctrination of a low flood form would be unlikely, indoctrination of a high Flood form (Gravemind or Key Mind) would be impossible for the same reason the Rachni queen wasn’t indoctrinated. From the wiki: “It is believed that the Reapers generate an electromagnetic field, waves of infrasound and ultrasound, or both in order to stimulate areas of a victim’s brain and limbic system.” the Gravemind’s brains override the brain of any individual Flood form, for all intents and purposes the Gravemind is the only mind of the Flood (with Key Minds augmenting that.) Indoctrination wouldn’t work.

    “What is the other inherent effect of the logic plague? Rampancy?”
    Rampancy was a side-effect. The inherent effect of the Logic plague was that is made the AI switch over to the Flood’s side.

    Now we get to the Reaper’s forces. What forces? All organic matter are Flood forms, at this point, there’s no Asari to turn into Banshees, no Turian to turn into Brutes, etc, etc, and downed Flood forms would just be revived by Infection forms as hundreds of thousands of them roam the worlds. Even the Collectors would be gone, since Shepard knew about them and Shepard is now Gravemind part 154,851,615 meaning the Gravemind now has that knowledge,as well as every AI (Reapers excluded, obviously) ready to do what the Gravemind says, take a ship out there and, if nothing else, ram it into the Collector’s base. There are no forces in-universe to aid the Reapers.

    “After reading up on it, it relies heavily on having a Key Mind engage the target in conversation. ”
    Only in the beginning, this battle would be happening well after the Flood has entered the galactic/intergalactic stages of its development. Before the flooed reached this level against the Forerunners, they’d already achieved suffiecent biomass to create the logic plague such that it “became an adaptive, self-replicating data instance which directly infected and converted virtually all AIs it came in contact with. This variation of the plague was no longer limited to direct communication between an embodied Gravemind and an AI, but could be transmitted via any Flood form, infected construct or network.” Again, as soon as 1 husk meets 1 combat form, the logic plague is sent into the Reaper system and starts converting. Or, assuming there are no ground troops, as soon as one ship collides with a Reaper ship (which one would eventually do)

    The Flood is just too adaptable. “You want to fight in space? Alright, let’s do that. You want to fight on land? Sounds good to me. You want to fight via sending telepathic words back and force? Hell yeah, lets do that. You want to bombard planets? Ha, humans tried that already, but by all means, go ahead.” ~ The Gravemind to all of your arguments.

  40. Epicazeroth July 10, 2015 at 4:35 pm -      #240

    Wait, why are the Reapers even involved? The Flood don’t use synthetics, so the Reapers would probably look at the galaxy, say “Well, looks like our job’s done,” and go off to have fun.

    Most likely, the Flood takes over the galaxy one planet at a time. If by some miracle Shepard arrives on Eden Prime and sees what’s happened, Cerberus or the Alliance may be able to sterilize the planet. Otherwise, all they can do is slow the Flood down.

    Although, if the Alliance does notice the Flood ship, they could possibly arrive and destroy them before they can do any harm.

  41. Sokogeki July 10, 2015 at 5:00 pm -      #241

    @Epicazeroth
    “Wait, why are the Reapers even involved? The Flood don’t use synthetics, so the Reapers would probably look at the galaxy, say “Well, looks like our job’s done,” and go off to have fun.”
    The Reapers are part of the Mass Effect universe, right? I was just taking this to its natural end.

    “Cerberus or the Alliance may be able to sterilize the planet.”
    How? Halo’s pre-historic humans glassed every planet that even had any sign of an infection and they still couldn’t defeat the Flood.

  42. AbsoluteZero July 10, 2015 at 8:53 pm -      #242

    ” the Gravemind’s brains override the brain of any individual Flood form, for all intents and purposes the Gravemind is the only mind of the Flood (with Key Minds augmenting that.) Indoctrination wouldn’t work”

    That isn’t the impression I get from that. The impression I get from that is, it’d go DIRECTLY to the Gravemind.

    Next question. Why wouldn’t the Reapers be aware of the Flood, and the nature of it, IMMEDIATELY? Considering the setup, they would. Eden Prime is hit by the Collectors at the start of ME2, and that’s where the Flood is going to be. Considering Harbingers’ ability to overview what’s going on, why WOULDN’T the Reapers know what the flood is, and consider, annhilating them.

    “Wait, why are the Reapers even involved? The Flood don’t use synthetics, so the Reapers would probably look at the galaxy, say “Well, looks like our job’s done,” and go off to have fun.”

    The Reapers are faulty, they scourge all organics. And there’s still synthetics in the mass effect universe. They’ve got no reason not to show up. I’m arguing that they could show up early. While i’ll concede things won’t go their way if they show up in the ME3 time, if they show up once their first collectors are taken, then you’ve got a fight on your hands.

    Because, as I noted. The Reapers could make an entire army function synthetically. Against the will of their organic material. IF they arrived early, why COULDN’T they have their army in response?

    Lastly. When playing Halo, I never, ever, ever, ever got this impression from the Flood. Either i’m incredibly unobservant (Possible) or i’ll be developing an immense hatred of all materials that add onto a universe, making everything that much more OP. Because that’s just frustrating.

  43. Sokogeki July 10, 2015 at 9:14 pm -      #243

    @AbsoluteZero
    “That isn’t the impression I get from that. The impression I get from that is, it’d go DIRECTLY to the Gravemind. ”
    That’s false. why didn’t the Rachni Queen get indoctrinated, then? Using your logic, she should have been… but she wasn’t… they could not control her so they locked her up.

    “Why wouldn’t the Reapers be aware of the Flood, and the nature of it, IMMEDIATELY?”
    Because the only reason they are aware of anything, say Shepard, is because they have some one in-universe giving them information. Now, if it was the Collectors, they would have no reason to assume its anything more than a zombie outbreak (or whatever the Mass Effect equivalent to a zombie outbreak is) caused by this odd ship that just tore through space. There’s no reason to believe its intelligent and so no reason for them to appear early enough to where they have the best chance to screw the Flood.

    “Eden Prime is hit by the Collectors at the start of ME2″
    Uh, no it isn’t.

    “IF they arrived early, why COULDN’T they have their army in response? ”
    If they showed up early, they could put up a fight. In fact, if they showed up early enough (to a still Feral Flood) they would have a much better chance at not losing the entire galaxy to the Flood (for a while.)

    “They’ve got no reason not to show up.”
    Except there is a reason they wouldn’t show up. That being why would they? At least early on, they’d have no reason to consider the Flood anything other than a virus that mutates humans and brings them back from the dead.In the beginning they would be mindless, not capable of doing what the Reapers are specifically programmed to do, why would they show up early? No, their approach is much later, maybe not at intergalactic-Flood, but definitely Galactic-Flood.

    Haha, prepare to get mad. While the Flood in Halo are intelligent (post-Gravemind, the Flood really get pimped out in Silentium.

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