What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?

What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe-

Suggested by itcheyness

What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?

While traversing slipspace the flood controlled Covenant cruiser Indulgence of Conviction (The Cruiser that brought the flood to Earth in the Halo 3 mission Floodgate) suffers a strange accident. Whether through a fluke of Quantum Mechanics, or the mad designs of some depraved god, an exact duplicate of the ship is created. While the original continues on to Earth, the duplicate is thrown wildly across dimensions and crash lands on the Systems Alliance colony of Eden Prime in the Mass Effect universe during the time period of Mass Effect 2.

There are 2 scenarios here

  1. Through a crazy series of events involving a computer virus somehow combining with the Common Cold, The Reapers get lost in space and do not show up in the Mass Effect galaxy.
  1. The Reapers updated their anti-virus software and ate a bunch of oranges, so computer/cold virus combo had no effect and the Reapers continue on as usual.

Will the Mass Effect races be able to deal with this new threat in time, or will the Flood turn the entire galaxy into an unending hellscape of shambling horrors?

How will this end?

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249 Comments on "What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?"

  1. jesusfreak155 July 9, 2015 at 1:00 am -      #101

    Muahahaha… The flood still creep me out. Who can remember that first feeling in Halo CE when they first jump at you, and the first time they whack you in melee, and the first time you realized that maybe you should have swapped the AR fir that shotgun… Those were good times.
    I’ll just keep reading these comments and feeling sad for the ME universe…😏

  2. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 1:07 am -      #102

    Let me clear the whole “transmission” thing up-Sovereign was blocking every communication method, the Alliance didn’t know what was causing it, so they sent the nearest ship-the Normandy-to investigate. People knew-the council knew (and did nothing because the Terminus are really unstable systems)-stop saying they didn’t! Hell, every person you bump into pretty much references the damn attack every minute of the game

  3. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 1:14 am -      #103

    @Ciridae Hunter
    None of that is said in-game. They think maybe the Reaper jammed comms… but then how did the message that the Normandy received get out? It makes sense he would cut comms right as the attack started, yet a transmission got out… so, okay, that’s kind of a problem, right? Unless he started the attack and then jammed comms? But by that point the SOS would have already been sent out, it wouldn’t make sense to jam the comms now based solely on that; you jam comms to they can’t call for help, if they already called for help then there’s no reason to jam comms.
    And then there is this other matter, no one, NO ONE in the entire rest of the game even references this fact. The Council didn’t know that Eden was being attacked, they assumed it would since it was built on the edge of their Space, but they didn’t know that it had been.
    Sorry, you’re just wrong.

  4. Friendlysociopath July 9, 2015 at 1:21 am -      #104

    Yeah, and it can be up to 7.

    Actually “several” is specifically gated to 3. Not 5 and certainly not 7. It has nothing to do with the number 7. English 101.

    You guys remember that for fictional armor feats > stated numbers of layers in any case right?
    ME armor deals with ME weapons, ME weapons in all cases > UNSC weapons of the same design
    So ME armor > Halo armor

  5. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 1:28 am -      #105

    @FriendlySociopath
    “Actually “several” is specifically gated to 3. Not 5 and certainly not 7. It has nothing to do with the number 7. English 101.”
    Lol, what? Um, source? I just looked ‘several’ up in an online dictionary and it gave me ” Being of a number more than two or three but not many” [X], other less official sites (Yahoo answers, right now) gave me a range from more than 3 to 11. So… yeah… Gated to 3, huh?

    “ME armor deals with ME weapons, ME weapons in all cases > Halo weapons of the same design”
    Oh god, this is so wrong for reasons I’ve already explained so many times in this fight alone. Can we please pay attention to canon here? Please?? And canon, as specifically stated in game is “mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy. This is mitigated somewhat by the mass effect fields that rounds are suspended within, but weapon recoil is still the prime limiting factor on slug velocity. ”
    A weapon with recoil equal to another weapon is only slight stronger than that first weapon. Not a huge, big difference, only “somewhat.”

    “So ME armor > Halo armor”
    Nope.

  6. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 1:30 am -      #106

    I hope you retards know that the flood likes to infect the entire biosphere of the planet.

    So ME can’t stop the infection of the planet or wipe it out. The only way they’re getting rid of the flood on Eden prime is to burn the entire biomass of the planet. Which is really hard to do when you’re limited to kiloton/megaton weaponry.

  7. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 1:37 am -      #107

    “Yeah, and it can be up to 7. 5 is a low medium.”

    So five layers of unconfirmed material. Isn’t there a book that actually goes into detail on this?
    ===
    “Ablative plating doesn’t actually reduce heat”

    Ceramic itself offers a layer heat of resistant material in addtion to the suit underneath providing protection from extreme temperatures.
    ===
    “Because it offers more protection”

    They have layers mostly under(Possibly) light armor for anything not the torso. Compared the hardsuit to armor as a standard around anything not joint obstructing over there additional layers.
    ===
    “Lol, yes, if you remove a function of one armor it becomes the same as another armor … but that first armor is in no way shape or form better than the second.”

    Your the one going “more layers, means more better” when one layer deals with protecting against heat. Meaning they just about the same amount of layers of protection against anything not heat related.
    How does a layer of something that the other suit’s properties would already cover give it more protection?

  8. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 1:53 am -      #108

    “Which is really hard to do when you’re limited to kiloton/megaton weaponry.”

    Earth military is based on our history so at least we know earth alone has got a lot of them.
    There is also the anitmatter nukes.
    Plus the relay option.
    The problem being of course that a planet has to be inhabitable before they risk that option and by then pretty sure it’ll be to late.
    ===
    ““So ME armor > Halo armor”
    Nope.”

    Yup…. Except in the case of Mjolnir.
    The base desgin which armor is built is comparable. That is not taken into account get companies tweak armor desgins stuff like adding in extra layers(becasue quantity is better then quality right?), using different materials in the armor, or just slapping on more armor.

  9. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 1:53 am -      #109

    @Ninja Lowk
    “So five layers of unconfirmed material. Isn’t there a book that actually goes into detail on this?”
    Halo Encyclopedia. I don’t have this specific one yet, however.

    “Ceramic itself offers a layer heat of resistant material in addtion to the suit underneath providing protection from extreme temperatures.”
    Not as much as a layer of gel specifically designed to be heat resistant. We have heat resistant gel that can withstand 3500 degrees F, most ceramics can only withstand 3000 degrees F. Can you prove the suit underneath is heat retardant as well? Because this is the first I’m hearing of this.

    “They have layers mostly under(Possibly) light armor for anything not the torso.”
    Are you saying “they mostly have layers under light armor for anything not the torso”? I’m going to assume you mean that. Prove it. Until you can, then they only have the armor described to us, which doesn’t include that.

    “Compared the hardsuit to armor as a standard around anything not joint obstructing over there additional layers.”
    The Halo armor wins, man.

    “Your the one going “more layers, means more better” when one layer deals with protecting against heat. Meaning they just about the same amount of layers of protection against anything not heat related. How does a layer of something that the other suit’s properties would already cover give it more protection?”
    The gel also doubles as ballistic protection, though. Its more stuff a bullet has to rip through to do any real damage. The heat protection the ME armor offers isn’t comparable to this.

  10. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 1:55 am -      #110

    @Ninja Lowk
    “Yup…. Except in the case of Mjolnir.
    The base desgin which armor is built is comparable. Tthat is not taken into account get companies tweak armor desgins stuff like adding in extra layers(becasue qauntity is better then quality right), adding armor, using different materials in the armor, or just slapping on more armor.”
    No, it really isn’t. The ME armor offers less protection against ballistic- and heat-based weaponry. It is less armor and more cumbersome. The only thing that pushes it ahead is when looking at the armor system as a whole as opposed to just the armor.

  11. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 1:59 am -      #111

    Who gives a flying frick about them referencing the transmission-canon states that, though more expensive, one could real-time communicate across the galaxy or (if you’re cheap or poor) you can go on public channels. A military frequency is high-priority on military channels-like whenever Shepard speaks at the Council (they never listen unless you go Renegade on them) they are talking in real-time across the galaxy. Just what are you hoping to accomplish by drawing out a useless part of the debate when the Flood can’t even jam a sandwich?

    “I hope you retards…”

    …well, that is awfully CoD of you. Instead of insulting intelligence, you could calmly say “they can infect organisms at a sub-atomic level” or something similar. Though that level of infection shows no effect on Token Black Guy, grunt soldiers, Covenant, or even the birds during the whole “Africa is boned” phase of Halo 3, so…either way, unless they want to assimilate skeletons, could you show any evidence that such a microscopic infection is actually working in less time than it takes to assimilate a Forerunner AI?

  12. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 2:00 am -      #112

    ‘There is also the anitmatter nukes.’

    This tells us nothing.

    ‘Earth military is based on our history so at least we know earth alone has got a lot of them.’

    You’re going to need petatons worth of firepower to completely wipe out a biosphere of a floodied world.

  13. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:04 am -      #113

    Really? Antimatter nukes tells you nothing? Not even a hint? Granted, I want to see a quote about these nukes-but not even the name gives anything away?

    I’m sorry, I’m working a sixteen hour shift and I only get an hour for lunch, so I apologize if I’m coming off as an asshole (I am an asshole, but I like this site so I don’t want to be “that one asshole” the whole time I creep in the sidelines)

  14. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 2:09 am -      #114

    ‘Really? Antimatter nukes tells you nothing?’

    I got this picogram antimatter nuke that can produce a tiny bit of light.

    Yes, antimatter nukes don’t tell us anything at all.

  15. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:10 am -      #115

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “Just what are you hoping to accomplish by drawing out a useless part of the debate when the Flood can’t even jam a sandwich?”
    First, and this is really simple, show me Eden is even capable of sending out beacons, calls for help, that reach further than its system. It doesn’t matter what toher tech is in the universe if Eden doesn’t have access to it which is looking more and more evident at every turn.

    “could you show any evidence that such a microscopic infection is actually working in less time than it takes to assimilate a Forerunner AI?”
    Clearly not someone who knows anything about Forerunner AIs. As I already said, the Forerunner AI in question was a single AI made up of multiple AI’s minds and each of those minds in and of themselves are capable of controlling entire feats of ships. But that doesn’t matter to you.

    Flood wrecks the universe, they completely consume Eden, move off world and wreck every system they come into contact with.

  16. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:13 am -      #116

    Halo armor is better when dealing with the armor aspect, but it really depends on the manufacturer and the armor type for everything else. One manufacturer makes light armor that provides protection against toxins, extreme heat or cold, another makes heavy armor with boosted tech protection and shield strength.

    By the way, ME armor can be repaired with the omni-tool (it’s like wearing a miracle of technology) using just about anything-not to mention almost every variety is equipped either with recharging shields (that recharge faster than Elites in some cases) or added armor or both.

    ME2 really gimped the armor and weapons, though; it makes for a fun game that isn’t lol easy, but it is annoying from a sci-fi perspective (especially the Thermal Clip thing-pissed me off to no end)

  17. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:19 am -      #117

    …so no proof with the whole microscopic infection working within the human lifespan? Okay!

    At this point in the match the debate is still “can they leave?” and not whether they can have a pissing contest with the Reapers to see which one can assimilate more Geth-yes, I saw the whole “AI within an AI” Inception bullshit, but the Titanic proves that more layers aren’t better if every layer is shit-flavored shit with shit filling-what makes them more advanced than Cortana-the ONLY AI in that damn verse that managed to survive it?

  18. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 2:20 am -      #118

    ‘…well, that is awfully CoD of you. Instead of insulting intelligence, you could calmly say’

    You mad brah?

    ‘Though that level of infection shows no effect on Token Black Guy, grunt soldiers, Covenant, or even the birds during the whole “Africa is boned” phase of Halo 3, ‘

    The fact that the covenant had to glass half of africa tells you alot.

    ‘could you show any evidence that such a microscopic infection is actually working in less time than it takes to assimilate a Forerunner AI?’



    There you go. The flood were stated to be able to overwhelm the entriely of UNSC earth within hours if not for the glassing of half of africa. And this is UNSC earth, you know, heavily militarized world filled with trained soliders expecting an attack and with the UNSC fleet already in the sky.

    Not a lush biomass filled world with little defense and not expecting a attack.

  19. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:24 am -      #119

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “…so no proof with the whole microscopic infection working within the human lifespan? Okay!”
    I wasn’t the one who brought it up. It just annoys me when you compare a single human brain to the vastly superior Forerunner AI. Its stupid, frankly.

    Yeah, the Flood would eradicate the Reapers, too. It would take maybe 5 seconds for the entire Reaper fleet to fall before the Gravemind.

  20. erickyboo July 9, 2015 at 2:25 am -      #120

    Why is there so much arguing about armour?

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NKDvSfrbtI
    Here’s the Mona Lisa.

    And that’s…

    Keyes

  21. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:26 am -      #121

    They were afraid of the Flood themselves-why send in more soldiers to die when you can make a parking lot out of their disintegrated corpses? They said they would infect the world-not how-show actual evidence of the biosphere infection working on people without environmental protection (Token Black Guy, Covenant, et cetera) and then I’ll stop speaking at the Council.

    “You mad, Brah?”

    First of all, I said I was working a sixteen hour shift, so I am a little ornery right now. Second, not really, I just don’t like the CoD publishers after copy/pasting Halo jumping and calling it “cutting-edge”. Nice graphics, though.

  22. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:32 am -      #122

    Cortana is literally the only AI in the Halo universe that managed to survive full assimilation (they are organic Borg, those Flood) and she was a singular AI that the Gravemind knew held the key to wiping out its opposition and becoming the new Borg collective, yet it still put a half-assed effort into it. If all Graveminds are this hilariously stupid, then you could toss a million of them into this match and it still wouldn’t do diddly-squat.

  23. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 2:38 am -      #123

    ‘At this point in the match the debate is still “can they leave?” and not whether they can have a pissing contest with the Reapers to see which one can assimilate more Geth-yes, I saw the whole “AI within an AI” Inception bullshit, but the Titanic proves that more layers aren’t better if every layer is shit-flavored shit with shit filling-what makes them more advanced than Cortana-the ONLY AI in that damn verse that managed to survive it?’

    The logic plague grows in strength proportional to the flood’s biomass. The flood as of halo 3, didn’t really have much biomass. Compare this to the flood as of the forerunner-flood war, where the flood could infect forerunner A.I just by being in the same room as them.

    Don’t talk about how smart and awesome the geth are too. Remember the overlord project, where a human consciousness was able to take control of the geth. Or in ME3 where shepherd was able to enter the geth consensus and fuck shit up? Or the whole reaper code thing where it was revealed that the geth wasn’t even fully sentient?

  24. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:41 am -      #124

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “They said they would infect the world-not how-show actual evidence of the biosphere infection working on people without environmental protection (Token Black Guy, Covenant, et cetera) and then I’ll stop speaking at the Council.”
    Really? You need it this spelt out for you? They had to glass the planet in order to rid the air of the Flood spores, of the microspoic biosphere infection. They show them burning up in that video.

    You talk about Cortana like you know what you’re talking about, its weird. Not only is Cortana the culmination of whatever the Lifeshaper sent into works thousands of years before Halo takes place, meaning the Gravemind wouldn’t have been prepared for this comapred to other human AIs, she was also the only one molded after a living brain, which offered her who knows how many advantages over normal AI, and (again) an unknown the Grave mind couldn’t have prepard for.

  25. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:48 am -      #125

    I stopped jerking the Geth collective around comment 75 (that’s a long time, granted, but I stopped). So how much biomass does the Flood have now? In your honest opinion, how much (intelligent) biomass do you think exists within human civilians, hooah-hooah space-marines, and maybe a Cerberus group if they care enough to send one before the Alliance says “fuck it” and glass the planet?

    Of course they weren’t fully sentient-the Quarians were playing loophole with the Council by making them hive AI versus fully independent AI? Technically speaking, the Reaper code is only doing what they usually do in the thousands per every individual Geth (making 1 unit equal 1000 essentially) so not even this is full sentience. The gambling AI in ME1 is more sentient. I was merely saying that they become stronger as a group and infecting one or two with bad code-assuming they don’t overload themselves-wouldn’t infect the rest like a cold would; the others would just eliminate the bad eggs. Their simplicity makes them far harder to take over than Forerunner AI (which technically follow the same AI stacking principles of the Geth AI)

  26. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:52 am -      #126

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “In your honest opinion, how much (intelligent) biomass do you think exists within human civilians, hooah-hooah space-marines, and maybe a Cerberus group if they care enough to send one before the Alliance says “fuck it” and glass the planet?”
    More than enough. Again, it only took a crew of a few thousand to create a proto-mind, Eden by itself has 4.2 million people. The Flood would be able to rise up and consume everything else off this one planet as a spring board.

  27. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 2:54 am -      #127

    “Not as much as a layer of gel specifically designed to be heat resistant. We have heat resistant gel that can withstand 3500 degrees F, most ceramics can only withstand 3000 degrees F.”

    Noted, they have a 500 degree difference.
    ===
    ” Can you prove the suit underneath is heat retardant as well? Because this is the first I’m hearing of this.”

    “Armored hard-suits are sealable to protect the wearer from extremes of temperature and atmosphere.”
    Enough so that you are capable of surviving a flamethrower.
    ===
    ” Prove it. Until you can, then they only have the armor described to us, which doesn’t include that.”

    My mistake, I was reading something different entirely. Looking at your link I see I was wrong.
    There doesn’t appear to be any armor guarding their legs.
    The M52B body armor appears to be a vest… over fatigues.
    ===
    “The Halo armor wins, man.”

    Congrats, you won me over; the highly layered vest is more resilient then the basic hardsuit.
    ===
    “No, it really isn’t. The ME armor offers less protection against ballistic- and heat-based weaponry. It is less armor and more cumbersome.”

    M52B body armor is a vest, even if it’s was more durable it still covers less of the body. Meanwhile Hardsuit can still protect against machine gun like hits while allowing the freedom to leap, climb, run, roll, etc.
    The M52B is multi-layerd but it is more limited in what it can protect.

  28. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 2:56 am -      #128

    ‘I stopped jerking the Geth collective around comment 75 (that’s a long time, granted, but I stopped). So how much biomass does the Flood have now? In your honest opinion, how much (intelligent) biomass do you think exists within human civilians, hooah-hooah space-marines, and maybe a Cerberus group if they care enough to send one before the Alliance says “fuck it” and glass the planet?’

    Because the system alliance and the rest of galactic community responds so quickly to threats…oh wait. See ME2, where entire colonies were going dark and nobody really gave a damm. Help came way after the collectors finished their job. Same thing is going to happen with the flood. Or the whole reaper threat thing, where everyone denied and more or less acted like a retard around it.

    They don’t even have the firepower needed to glass the planet. And all it things is a single FTL capable ship to spread the infection far and wide, using the relay network.

    ‘Of course they weren’t fully sentient-the Quarians were playing loophole with the Council by making them hive AI versus fully independent AI? Technically speaking, the Reaper code is only doing what they usually do in the thousands per every individual Geth (making 1 unit equal 1000 essentially) so not even this is full sentience. The gambling AI in ME1 is more sentient. I was merely saying that they become stronger as a group and infecting one or two with bad code-assuming they don’t overload themselves-wouldn’t infect the rest like a cold would; the others would just eliminate the bad eggs. Their simplicity makes them far harder to take over than Forerunner AI (which technically follow the same AI stacking principles of the Geth AI)’

    Because that protected them from project overlord or Shepherd. Oh pls. The Quarian already buttfucked the geth in canon. The flood can and will do the same. Even if they need to consume the rest of the galaxy to do it.

  29. saintlyDemon July 9, 2015 at 2:57 am -      #129

    Man, I haven’t been on since 2012 or 2013. Nothing seems to have changed. Anyways:

    “It would take the Alliance like 30 minutes to arrive.”
    One of two situations happen here. Either the Alliance has to scramble a ship specifically to investigate. It can take up to a day to ship out a vessel depending on if they have a crew on reserve or not. Like a frigate. Anything bigger will take longer. Or the Alliance contacts a ship in transit nearby and redirects them to Eden Prime. Mass Relay travel is nearly instant, but it seems like it would take a few hours to reach the planet from the Mass Relay. This gives the Flood anywhere from a few hours to a whole day without having to worry about reinforcements. It’s most likely to be a frigate as they are the fastest most flexible craft. Based on the Normandy SR-1 it appears that Alliance frigates are crewed by about fifty people. Also the Alliance is more likely to treat this like a disease than an intelligent foe. Try to establish a quarantine, evacuate civilians.

    Instead of comparing UNSC marine armor to ME armor, I’ll compare Master Chief’s Mjolonir armor to mass effect’s armor. The outer shell is a multi-layer alloy with a refractive coating to deflect energy projectiles. Underneath that is a gel filled layer, a thick armored bodysuit, and a thinner skinsuit. It weighs 1,000 pounds. Then there is the shield which is designed to deflect bolts of energy and environmental objects. Environmental objects would seem to indicate that it is always on.
    The ME armor has already been discussed. But the shields haven’t. The shields are formed from small mass effect fields designed to deflect small, fast objects. Flood infection forms like to either crawl below a person’s field of vision or drop down on them from above while the person is busy shooting at the combat forms. Neither of these methods would have the velocity to trigger the shields. And if the combat form’s claw/ tendril whip thing can throw around a man in 1,000 pound titanium alloy armor, I’d hate to see what it would do to an Alliance marine.

  30. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:57 am -      #130

    So you’re saying it couldn’t assimilate Cortana because she was made using an organic brain? It’s never in the course of ever assimilated an organic brain? So a Robobrain from Fallout is the great nemesis of the New Borg Collective? Honestly, asking for proof is like asking the Pope why the True Cross is still lost.

    Nukes destroy molecules anyway-they are designed that way-so what two-second snippet of a video has you convinced that it wasn’t just for shock value? What Forerunner logs say that a limited number of rudimentary flood could produce a biosphere infection capable of infecting the world before I die of old age waiting (still want to know how Token Black Guy and every Covenant and marine grunt could survive if it is actually as powerful as you say it is)? I really want to know.

    Also, I require stats on the antimatter nuke (what does it actually do-I wasn’t just messing with IamTaco)

  31. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 3:06 am -      #131

    “I got this picogram antimatter nuke that can produce a tiny bit of light.

    Yes, antimatter nukes don’t tell us anything at all.”

    How much antimatter you need to wipe a mountain from existence and eliminating any biological traces of whatever was there?

    Then tell me more of this picogram antimatter you’ve got.
    ===
    “Why is there so much arguing about armour?”

    Boredom for me… well that and I find debating pointless things more interesting then the math question I have due next week.
    ===
    While were here, anyone got a guess for the kind of shit you get up to in Mass Effect Andromeda?… ME: A? Mass EA… heh. EA.

  32. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 3:13 am -      #132

    ‘(still want to know how Token Black Guy and every Covenant and marine grunt could survive if it is actually as powerful as you say it is)? I really want to know.’

    Glassing half of Africa, managing to avoid infection by running away or generally being in a low biomass area when the flood are just starting out.

    ‘Nukes destroy molecules anyway-they are designed that way-so what two-second snippet of a video has you convinced that it wasn’t just for shock value? What Forerunner logs say that a limited number of rudimentary flood could produce a biosphere infection capable of infecting the world before I die of old age waiting ‘

    youtu.be/w07eXxzM8Pw?t=876

    The flood doesn’t just infect sentient life, they infect anything with biomass, the plants, the animal life, they essentially floodied the entire biosphere of the entire planet. That’s just what they do. They infect biomass, exponential growth rates takes care of the rest.

    ‘Warrior-Servants methodically destroyed the infected fleets, leaving only scattered remains to analyze —damaged monitors and broken bits of armor. A few of the recovered monitors were beyond repair or even interrogation. They had been subjected to a hitherto unknown philosophical corruption— much like the perversion later observed in Mendicant Bias. They quickly spread their corruption to other AIs. It was obviously not healthy for an ancilla to match wits with a Gravemind. The same might have been true of organic beings . But with them, the Flood leaped over any subtle perversion or persuasion. It simply absorbed, converted, used.’

    ‘If he’d been another AI or a virus, Cortana would have known exactly where his attack was headed. She would have been able to track him through the circuits and gateways to her vulnerable matrix. Her enemy would follow electronic pathways—or even enzymes or optical lattices if she was embedded in a molecular or quantum system. But he felt formless, almost like a fog. She could only sense where he touched her. She was a boxer shielding her face, not seeing the punch but reeling when it connected.’

    ‘IDENTIFICATION OF NEW categories of Flood components and forms will be distributed upon confirmation. Tentative conclusions: the Flood is mutating to form Graveminds of unprecedented size and complexity, incorporating many species. Entire planetary ecosystems have apparently undergone conversion to what are being referred to as Key Minds. Evidence of the extraordinary strategic planning abilities of these Key Minds is rapidly increasing . They appear to be more than a match for any metarch-level ancilla, capable of assuming complete control of besieged sectors, and sending converted battle fleets through unprecedented number of slipspace portals utilizing unfamiliar technology. This technology also appears to be capable of blocking delivery of our forces to battle fronts. Vessels showing signs of extreme reconciliation failure have been witnessed at the arrival points of major Forerunner portals. Perhaps most alarming, reports arrive each hour of reawakened Precursor artifacts, including orbital ribbons, star roads, planetary fortresses, and citadels. Combined defense forces are inadequate to investigate and confirm all instances of these reactivations. They appear to be galaxy-wide.’

  33. saintlyDemon July 9, 2015 at 3:14 am -      #133

    “How much antimatter you need to wipe a mountain from existence and eliminating any biological traces of whatever was there?”

    As much as the mass of the mountain and the biological traces you’re talking about. Antimatter destroys matter on a one-to-one ratio.
    ==
    Sorry about that last post. Just figured out how to do breaks in the text. Its been awhile.

  34. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:15 am -      #134

    They’ll use the building mechanic from Fallout 4 to put a better version into Andromeda, you’ll probably get to fly around more in space skirmishes against space pirates…in space, you’ll be able to jump (always wondered why they never bothered to allow jumping in ME especially when facing Thresher Maws in low-gravity), armor customization from Fallout 4, pet system from ESO (minus the mind-raping aspects of that attempt to “WoW” us).

    If I seem happy it’s because the dipshits I was covering for are actually here (and I punched one of them and that always helps)

  35. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:22 am -      #135

    No worries, man, we all forget to do the break text thing-especially if you use a computer a lot.

    Thank the gayness of Grell-proof! Now I can side with the direct infection aspect. But still doesn’t say how long the biosphere infection takes to work. And Token Black Guy has fought the Flood a lot, so how is his unarmored, stereotypically awesome face not getting “Flooded” with the infection? Arbiter and a crapload of named Elites and Brutes fought the Flood a lot, yet they didn’t get infected, either. Biomass, my ass-it’s just ineffective.

  36. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 3:23 am -      #136

    My greatest qualm about Andromeda is being locked into playing a human again. You have racial selection in Dragon Age dammit! Curses. I was really hoping I could play an Asari Ardat-Yakshi. Put a morbid spin on those romance scenes.

  37. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:27 am -      #137

    Salarian romances would be fast (sex joke definitely implied) and hyperactive like a dog humping a leg, Turian romances would be broody or involve a lot of kinky group stuff (“we share in the Hierarchy” -Turian Player), and you know someone would want to play as one of the Hanar…

    You made me choke on a sandwich with that Asari comment-wasn’t expecting that comment to pop up.

  38. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 3:33 am -      #138

    @Ciridae

    The BEST comment. Rather than picking a character I want to romance, I pick the one I despise. They die horribly, and my character goes on with absolutely no problems, because Ardat-Yakshi are inherently sociopathic.

  39. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 3:33 am -      #139

    ‘And Token Black Guy has fought the Flood a lot, so how is his unarmored, stereotypically awesome face not getting “Flooded” with the infection?’

    Infection in the early stage requires physical contact. All he did was run away from the flood when he was confronted with them.

    ‘Arbiter and a crapload of named Elites and Brutes fought the Flood a lot, yet they didn’t get infected, either.’

    Sealed power amour, fighting a small amount of flood in a environment that the flood hasn’t began to consume yet.

    ‘But still doesn’t say how long the biosphere infection takes to work’

    Considering that Roland states that if it weren’t for the covenant glassing Africa minutes after the flood landed, they would have over-run UNSC earth in a matter of hours…

    ‘Biomass, my ass-it’s just ineffective.’

    The biosphere of the planet isn’t intelligent and doesn’t go shooting at the flood or running away when the flood tries to infect it. So infecting the biosphere of a lush garden world like Eden prime will be easily as hell, specially once the flood get their gravemind and began producing flood spores.

  40. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:35 am -      #140

    “The BEST comment”

    Genuine Curiosity, are you referring to my comment or yours, because both are great.

  41. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 3:42 am -      #141

    “My greatest qualm about Andromeda is being locked into playing a human again. You have racial selection in Dragon Age dammit! Curses. I was really hoping I could play an Asari Ardat-Yakshi. Put a morbid spin on those romance scenes.”

    You had me up until the space succubus part.
    I’d have like to continue trying Krogan out. Something about being a walking tank speaks to me.
    ===
    “As much as the mass of the mountain and the biological traces you’re talking about. Antimatter destroys matter on a one-to-one ratio.”

    Well they use it for thier starships so I guess make since that they’d have a lot of it.

  42. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:44 am -      #142

    “Roland states that…”

    He could have easily been speaking of the regular Flood-what does Roland even know about the Flood aside from “they kill and spread like wildfires”? Hell, I would put more stock in Chief’s opinions if he didn’t brood all day in his olive drab Stormtrooper outfit. What makes Roland such an expert? I want Forerunner proof since they actually let the shit happen to them-human’s just run or die like pussies and Covenant just glass anything that isn’t theirs.

    Just had a thought-wouldn’t a tentacle strike that can fling a Spartan around activate the kinetic shield? Or is it just a speed thing.

    “I was on patrol during my tour on earth when a local bird broke its neck when it flew into my shield. Talk about a downer” – Alliance Marine

    That wasn’t an actual quote, but it would make sense

  43. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 3:45 am -      #143

    @Ciridae

    Yes.

    A bit more on topic, I’d like to point out that the Krogan would probably be the easiest species to wipe out. They have a frankly stupid level of reliance on close quarters combat, and it’s been shown, that’s not the best idea. Also, ME:3 does mention that the Reaper plan to annhilate them was just to poison them. If the Reapers could land, and start poisoning the Krogan with no resistance, I don’t see the flood having a problem pulling a similar stunt.

    I actually think the sticking point would be Thessia. Keeping in mind that the Reapers assessed the threat of each species before they attacked, they full force hit the Batarians, Turians and Humans. I don’t believe what they did regarding the Salarians is mentioned, however, they chose to poison the Krogan. And, most importantly. They had to lay siege to Thessia. Why? Because the entire population is biotic, making Husks and such utterly useless when dealing with a species that can actively explode them.

    The Asari also retain several powerful flagships. They also have their Justiciars. Who are, as is mentioned earlier in this thread, essentially ME Jedi. Also, how do Barriers work? We know that Asari almost entirely eschew shields for their own biotic barriers. Would they be able to stop infection?

    Lastly, every Asari soldier has spent at least thirty years in training, and at that point they’re still considered to be inept. The older ones have hundreds of years of combat experience. While i’m not saying the Asari could turn things around personally, I do think they’d be a tough nut to crack.

  44. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 3:48 am -      #144

    “So infecting the biosphere of a lush garden world like Eden prime will be easily as hell, specially once the flood get their gravemind and began producing flood spores.”

    In the course of Eden Prime colony’s history it has been attack by Geth, roasted by a landing reaper, rebuilt and then attacked again by Cerberus. Now it is being devoured by an alien bordering on being lovecraftian.
    It’s like New York or Tokyo in movies, except in space.

  45. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:52 am -      #145

    “Yes”

    This one wants to know. It is curious to see how one of the Ardat-Yakshi would mate with one of the Hanar.

    I think biotic barriers are explained as making a layer of ultra-dense space or a mass effect field around a person, but I can only take that damnable monotone narration for so long. Biotic barriers are stronger than armor shields depending on the skill of the biotic, but that is just speculation (and assuming the implants were top-notch Serric Council ones that cost a soul and a half if you’re not an Asari-blue racists).

  46. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:56 am -      #146

    I hope there’s a Spacey’s there, because I need a bite before I fly to Space Australia-go Soace Broncos!

    Yea, Eden Prime is like the big-breasted girl in every horror film ever-sure, she’s nice to look at, but come half an hour later she’ll be chopped up and all you’ll have is the feeling that you’re next.

  47. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 4:02 am -      #147

    “They have a frankly stupid level of reliance on close quarters combat, and it’s been shown”

    To be fair who wouldn’t with the kind of shotguns they make.
    Those poor, poor claymore shotgun weilding bastards, they are going go to charging right at the combat form aren’t they?

  48. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:07 am -      #148

    The regular Halo shotgun can mow down the Flood in seconds-and it takes forever to load! Imagine a thousand Krogan charging in, each one wielding a claymore capable of breaking an arm of every other race with the recoil alone-and that’s after the mass effect field reducing recoil-not to mention it can be loaded in two seconds thanks to thermal clips (which are still horribly inefficient compared to the older models-like Jessie…poor old bitch; saddest off-screen death in the ME series)

  49. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 4:07 am -      #149

    “Those poor, poor claymore shotgun weilding bastards, they are going go to charging right at the combat form aren’t they?”

    Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. This is the species that actively picks a fight with a Thresher Maw as a right of passage. The Krogan may be great at what they do, but here, they’re jumping into a meat-grinder.

    Also, my point isn’t that they won’t kill flood. They CAN. Really well. The issue, is that they’ll have an enormous chance of being infected.

  50. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:19 am -      #150

    Hold on, Elite armor-especially Arbiter’s armor-aren’t hermetically sealed if you can see the inside of their mouths. Tartarus only used his unexplained, plot-provided plot shield during the end of the plot where the or required a final boss to wrap up the plot. He’s practically naked when he stomps on that tiny flood that got Regret? The old Prophet-whatever-the only armor that he wears in canon is the one pauldron. Yep, being naked DOES increase your power level on this planet.

    Most Elites-especially Arbiter’s sidekick throughout 2 and 3 used energy swords-the second shortest CQC weapon apart from a combat knife or the Brute Shot. And there are times slaying the flood in-game where “blood” or cockroach flood juices will splatter on you, so throughout this why didn’t the sidekick not get infected? Why didn’t Tartarus get infected? Hell, the flood really aren’t space zombies if they can’t even get the basics down…maybe they should assimilate a real zombie to work properly.

  51. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 4:21 am -      #151

    ‘He could have easily been speaking of the regular Flood-what does Roland even know about the Flood aside from “they kill and spread like wildfires”? Hell, I would put more stock in Chief’s opinions if he didn’t brood all day in his olive drab Stormtrooper outfit. What makes Roland such an expert?’

    Because Roland is the most advanced A.I that the UNSC have? And in the video where he states that particular fact, he is in the process of training UNSC recruits to fight the flood. It would to be highly stupid to give misinformation about a enemy that you’re training someone to fight against.

  52. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:32 am -      #152

    And what makes Sir Prick any smarter than Cortana? Was he made with two brains?

    Like I said before I need Forerunner facts since they catalogued their demise from minute one and they don’t run or die like humans do and they don’t make a stained glass mural out of a planet like the Covenant do. For that matter, what makes any human AI better than the Titanic AI’s used by the Forerunners-maybe if you stack a few more famous knights in there we can make a Round Table of AI’s that we can call Merlin (since Arthur was just Merlin’s figurehead if you think about it).

    I don’t mean to be snide I’m stuck in traffic and trying to type on my smart phone-blaring Sinatra, though, which is helpful.

  53. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:37 am -      #153

    This post is really off-topic, but I realized that almost every species in Mass Effect can represent a sexual fetish; please know that I can explain but I don’t want to for fear of being booted from the site.

  54. AbsoluteZero July 9, 2015 at 4:40 am -      #154

    @Ciridae

    They can, yes. Not overly subtle.

    The infection of the Flood does seem to be rather inconsistant. Does it know when people are plot relevant?

  55. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:43 am -      #155

    “I have GOT to get me one of these!” said Will Smith, as EA Games gave him a plot shield-to borrow-during an alien attack.

  56. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:53 am -      #156

    Subtlety and sex don’t go together; when they are nearby each other, it’s like the moment that men dread when a woman (or man-I’m not judgmental) turns, looks them dead in the eye and says “is it in yet?” with the most deadpan of expressions. Plus I’m listening to Sinatra’s “Five Minutes More” and that is t exactly inspiration for subtle speech.

  57. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 5:20 am -      #157

    ‘Like I said before I need Forerunner facts since they catalogued their demise from minute one and they don’t run or die like humans do and they don’t make a stained glass mural out of a planet like the Covenant do.’

    Tentative conclusions: the Flood is mutating to form Graveminds of unprecedented size and complexity, incorporating many species. Entire planetary ecosystems have apparently undergone conversion to what are being referred to as Key Minds. Evidence of the extraordinary strategic planning abilities of these Key Minds is rapidly increasing . They appear to be more than a match for any metarch-level ancilla, capable of assuming complete control of besieged sectors, and sending converted battle fleets through unprecedented number of slipspace portals utilizing unfamiliar technology. This technology also appears to be capable of blocking delivery of our forces to battle fronts. Vessels showing signs of extreme reconciliation failure have been witnessed at the arrival points of major Forerunner portals. Perhaps most alarming, reports arrive each hour of reawakened Precursor artifacts, including orbital ribbons, star roads, planetary fortresses, and citadels. Combined defense forces are inadequate to investigate and confirm all instances of these reactivations. They appear to be galaxy-wide.

    Observed extensive ground action on [LP 656-38 e]. 9,045 survivors barricaded within central government building. Structure’s defenses inadequate to withstand extended siege by enemy ground forces (1,572,034,315+). Estimate position overrun in [173 hours].

    846 smaller groups in less defensible structures; global distribution corresponding to [probability model zeta]. Estimated local position overrun in [9 hours] (average).

    Observed local naval forces engage enemy irregular naval group near [DM-3-1123]. Enemy group consisted of 149 commercial shipping vessels, passenger ferries, and private recreational vehicles from neighboring system. Enemy losses were total. No damage was sustained by local naval vessels.

    However, it was immediately apparent that the enemy group sought only to enter [DM-3-1123 b’s] atmosphere and make landfall. In this they were partially successful.

    Observed extensive ground action on [DM-3-1123 b]. Enemy forces lacked basic cohesion but quickly gained numerical superiority. [32 hours] after enemy landfall 83% of local naval forces advocated total [destruction of the biosphere] following the evacuation of unmolested population centers. Enemy losses were total.

    Estimated number of citizens evacuated before commencement of orbital blanket bombardment: 1,318,797 civilian/42,669 military (.0006% of total population).

    Proof enough for you?

  58. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 5:43 am -      #158

    Nope-when did the Flood arrive on the planet? How many were there? What was the biomass total when compared with the shipful of basic Flood on the Indulgence? How many were actually infected by the biosphere infection versus ground forces (which were pointed out rather extensively)? How long did it take for the biosphere to be destroyed (not infected-the report says that clearly enough)? Was the biosphere destroyed by prolonged use of highly-advanced Forerunner weaponry or by the Flood?

    By Halo 2 there should have been a lot more of the Flood everywhere if they can spread airborne toxins-Arbiter should have been infected, and the same goes for every one of the Elites under his command. The report was so vague and is so easy to interpret that anyone could make up a story using the report-hell, just replace Flood with Demon, forerunner with Angel, ancilla with Archangel, and you have yourself a story fit for the Holy Bible: Rings of Halo. I asked for proof of the biosphere infection actually working, and I get a report that harps about ground forces and slip space and AI’s-literally everything else but the proof to conclusively prove that the biosphere infection actually works-let alone with such a small contingent of Flood on the Indulgence.

    *sigh* well, I need to sleep, so good night (or morning or whatever time zone-related farewell there is) and I shall post more later.

  59. IamTaco July 9, 2015 at 6:13 am -      #159

    *sigh* well, I need to sleep, so good night (or morning or whatever time zone-related farewell there is) and I shall post more later.

    You refuse you listen to evidence. I have the quote showing the flood over running a planet with billions of heavily armed forerunners in just 32 hours. The other quote from Roland stating that the flood would have over ran UNSC earth in just a matter of hours. The other quotes showing that the flood would regularly convert entire planetary ecosystems into keyminds. There are other pieces of edvidence too, like how the immdeiate respone to a flood infection, even a small one by the anicnet humans is to glass the word clean of all life, the forerunners having to supernova even slightly infected flood worlds to contain their spread later on into the war, the flood managing to over run high charity in a matter of hours…

    There are so many sources of the flood being able to over run occupied militarized planet in a matter of hours, with them being able to convert the entire ecosystem of the planet within a non-specific amount of time.

    They will over run Eden prime within hours, obtain a FTL ship and spread across the entire galaxy. There is no stopping it.

  60. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 6:44 am -      #160

    I keep asking you for proof about the biosphere infection, and you keep giving me evidence for the other points-yes, they spread quickly, but even in that report there was no evidence pointing towards the biosphere being destroyed by the Flood-more likely, it was the result of radiation from million upon millions of weapons over a day and a half.

    I’m not doubting that the Flood will spread, I’m not questioning anything regarding how fucked most of the races are, but you have yet to give me any evidence to support effective usage of the biosphere infection and the airborne virus that-in Halo canon-has yet to show viable results in many of the Elites that literally fight them with swords (granted made of energy but still swords). Their armor isn’t hermetically sealed and even if it was a virus like you think the airborne pathogen is would be carried with the “safe” armor, infect a Grunt or something, and then it’s game over. I’m done asking you for proof on this regard, since it is beyond obvious that you cannot provide it, so I will leave you to whatever devices that you may have for yourself, and I shall fall asleep to the Don Giovani. Good day to you, sir (or lady, or however you identify yourself) and I hope the rest of your day is met with good fortune.

  61. saintlyDemon July 9, 2015 at 1:08 pm -      #161

    The most concrete feat of biosphere infection is that the High Charity was completely contaminated within a month.

    Also, Elite battle harnesses are hermetically sealed by the energy force field. Grunts are pretty much always wearing methane tanks. They don’t breath the oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere where the Flood is encountered in-game.

    Within the Mass Effect games melee attacks drain shields. However, I’m not sure how well the ME shields would dissipate the force of the blow. Kinetic shields are, like I said, designed to deflect small objects. They do have the force to throw a chair across a room just by sitting in it. Only reason they don’t is the speed thing.

  62. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 1:10 pm -      #162

    God damn, still having this stupid argument?

    Here; the method if infection DOESN’T MATTER when the entire world can be corrupted within hours of first contact. There, this is over. Eden Prime is consumed within hours of first contact, sending out a beacon or no, they are royally fucked, All that matters from that point on is what ship comes in and tries to help them, that’s their vector off of the planet and you can bet at least 1 ship of some alliance will wonder over and check it out. From there, the entire rest of the galaxy is easy pickings, they have a Gravemind, they’ve moved past the Feral and enter the Coordinated stage at the very least.

    Sorry, ME universe, it takes weapons that wipe out all sentient life within 25,000 light years to completely eradicate the Flood. You put up a good fight, but ultimately the Gravemind is just that much better.

  63. Messmaker July 9, 2015 at 1:30 pm -      #163

    No the gravemind wouldn’t help much. You would not have the gravemind from the game, you would have a new gravemind that forms from the humans of Eden prime. Fix the Covenant Space ship? Nope. No one on Eden prime has the capability of that. operate Alliance equipment? Sure. Fire plasma pistols? Sure. Rebuild, almost from scratch, a hyper-advanced Slipspace drive that no one has any idea how it works? Lol nope

    in addition, the muzzle velocity of the ma5b is 905 m/s.
    the muzzle velocity of a AR-15 (modern civilian version of a m4a1) is 975 m/s.
    the muzzle velocity of a ME handgun is somewhere in the region of 28500 m/s

    halo weapons > ME weapons? Hahahalolno

  64. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 1:38 pm -      #164

    @Messmake
    “No the gravemind wouldn’t help much. You would not have the gravemind from the game, you would have a new gravemind that forms from the humans of Eden prime.”
    Which they would be able to do.

    “Rebuild, almost from scratch, a hyper-advanced Slipspace drive that no one has any idea how it works? Lol nope”
    Now this is tricky. On the ship that crashed into Eden Prime, there were pure forms, do pure forms get a portion of their original Gravemind’s knowledge? And so, when a new Gravemind is created, do they offer this knowledge to the Gravemind? If yes, then they can fix a Slip-Space drive.

    “in addition, the muzzle velocity of the ma5b is 905 m/s.
    the muzzle velocity of a AR-15 (modern civilian version of a m4a1) is 975 m/s.
    the muzzle velocity of a ME handgun is somewhere in the region of 28500 m/s”
    Where did you get 28500 m/s? And this doesn’t matter. Codex already tells us (for then tenth time) how hard Mass Effect weapons hit. Here’s a hint: Not that much harder than modern weapons.

    “halo weapons > ME weapons? Hahahalolno”
    Spoken like someone who doesn’t even know the canon they’re arguing for.

  65. Messmaker July 9, 2015 at 1:44 pm -      #165

    Try harder.

    source: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-physics-of-mass-effect-calculations-and-discussion.246587/

  66. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 1:47 pm -      #166

    @Messmaker
    Canon trumps everything, game canon trumps every other type of canon (comics, books, etc ). The game flat out says their weapons are slightly stronger than modern day weapons.
    But hey, if you’d rather ignore canon for your own headcanon, go for it, just makes you look childish.

  67. Super Combine July 9, 2015 at 1:51 pm -      #167

    @Messmaker
    “in addition, the muzzle velocity of the ma5b is 905 m/s.
    the muzzle velocity of a AR-15 (modern civilian version of a m4a1) is 975 m/s.
    the muzzle velocity of a ME handgun is somewhere in the region of 28500 m/s”


    That’s a rather dishonest comparison. If you’re going to compare the performance of the UNSC’s 7.62x51mm, M118, then compare it to the real world bullet it’s supposed to come from, the 7.62x51mm, M118. Which interestingly enough has a much lower muzzle velocity in comparison – 790 m/s.

    Also a source for the ME handgun’s muzzle velocity would be nice.

  68. Messmaker July 9, 2015 at 2:05 pm -      #168

    Absolutely nothing in cannon refutes the reasoning of my source, a source which bends over backwards to fit into cannon.

    and what source do you have that says pure flood get part of the gravemind’s knowledge? No source I have ever seen says this.

    @ Combine
    already got it.^

  69. saintlyDemon July 9, 2015 at 2:05 pm -      #169

    They’ve also got the couple thousand covenant based flood that the ship carried there. There’s bound to be at least a few captains, engineers, something that knows how to work a slipspace drive. And they don’t have to get it to work perfectly. Just enough to float.

  70. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:11 pm -      #170

    @Messmaker
    “Absolutely nothing in cannon refutes the reasoning of my source, a source which bends over backwards to fit into cannon.”
    Except it clearly ignores the whole part in the codex, right? “mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy.” Get that? The energy they hit with goes both ways, like regular weapons do now. “This is mitigated somewhat by the mass effect fields that rounds are suspended within.” Get that? They hit slightly stronger than modern weapons.

    “and what source do you have that says pure flood get part of the gravemind’s knowledge? ”
    I didn’t claim it did. I asked. Way to go, kid.

  71. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:14 pm -      #171

    The battle would be long and bloody, but the Alliance and the Council would win in the end for one really good reason: Mass Relays, when destroyed, blow up with such force that they wipe out the solar system that they are in.

    At first, the Alliance will dick around-no one can argue that. The Council will ignore it (again, they aren’t going into the Terminus Systems) until the flood move into a different system (let’s say Hades Gamma for argument’s sake), Cerberus or the Alliance or even the guys from the Arrival DLC would send Shepard, then Shepard will just Arrival the systems to hell. Overall, a few systems will be lost, but the whole galaxy? No.

  72. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:20 pm -      #172

    “Somewhat” is a vague term, so I can see why there is issue, there, but the velocity/round size is dependent upon the range and the type of target; each weapon houses a computer which calculates range and how big a chunk needs to be shaved from the metal block in the weapon to effectively hit a target. A point-blank shot to the head won’t need as much mass effect energy as a headshot from half a mile away.

    But at least we don’t have the shitty assault rifles from Halo…goodness, they’re awful.

  73. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:21 pm -      #173

    The whole Galaxy, yes.

    Man, you’d think there weren’t any other FTL drives in all of the universe with how much stock you’re putting into destroying the relays when, in the game, there are hundreds of vehicles with FTL drives.

    The Flood get off planet, infect a few systems, create Graveminds and Key Minds and then destroy every race in Mass Effect. We’re saying this would be quick, but it doesn’t have to, the flood could wait for hundreds and thousands of years before making a big move.

  74. Messmaker July 9, 2015 at 2:23 pm -      #174

    “Except it clearly ignores the whole part in the codex, right? ”

    No, no it doesn’t. Did you even read the thread?

  75. Super Combine July 9, 2015 at 2:25 pm -      #175

    @Messmaker
    “already got it.^”

    Spacebattles isn’t exactly an official source. Haven’t read it thoroughly yet, however, just scanning through his post it seems he’s taken a lot of assumptions which makes the results a bit iffy.

  76. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:28 pm -      #176

    As someone in that very thread said “Well, that’s…a lot of math. I applaud you for going to all that trouble, but unfortunately I don’t think it will carry a lot of weight in discussions and debates because it boils down to a lot of speculation”
    Bring actual canon numbers, not speculation.

  77. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:28 pm -      #177

    Actually there aren’t any other methods of FTL travel in Mass Effect-they aren’t needed with the Relays-that’s why if you pick the “destroy synthetics” option in ME3 the little kid says “all the Relays will be destroyed and you will be isolated”.

    “Hundreds of thousands of years”? By then they would be in Andromeda and beyond-hell, they can all run away like holy hell to another galaxy and the flood will be left wondering what happened. Or the Reapers would perceive them as a threat and would wipe them out from space.

  78. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:33 pm -      #178

    Whoops-want to amend my statement-there are indeed other methods of FTL travel, they’re just never used outside of a system.

    But then how long can Flood last without sustenance? I believe someone on this thread said that “they have no problem waiting, but they were dust by the time they arrive”.

  79. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:35 pm -      #179

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “Actually there aren’t any other methods of FTL travel in Mass Effect-they aren’t needed with the Relays-that’s why if you pick the “destroy synthetics” option in ME3 the little kid says “all the Relays will be destroyed and you will be isolated”.”
    Oh god, please, please go get caught up on your own canon. Mass Relays move thing faster than the speed of light. From the wiki “allowing for journeys that would otherwise take years or even centuries with only FTL drives. ” Clearly Relays and FTL drives are not the same thing.

    “By then they would be in Andromeda”
    … have they given us a timeline for when Andromeda is supposed to take place? Beyond the vauge, that is?

    “Or the Reapers would perceive them as a threat and would wipe them out from space.”
    No, by this time, the Flood would be able to destroy the Reapers (easily, too)

  80. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 2:36 pm -      #180

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “But then how long can Flood last without sustenance? I believe someone on this thread said that “they have no problem waiting, but they were dust by the time they arrive”.”
    They can last as long as they need to. Dust or no, they can still infect others.

  81. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:40 pm -      #181

    I saw my mistake but I had posted before I could fix it-sorry :p

    What makes you think the Reapers would need to land to fight? For that matter, why wouldn’t using Relay explosions wipe out the Flood? And who cares what timeline Andromeda takes if it will take “hundreds and thousands of years” for the Flood to get anywhere? Also, will the flood refill a ships Eezo reserves? Will they know where to easily acquire it in dark space between systems? Way too many “ifs” for Flood victory at this point.

  82. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 2:44 pm -      #182

    So they’ll infect us all with the mighty biosphere infection…High Charity isn’t proof of it working, just that they can spray their guts on a wall and call the place home-a wasp can build a hive in a day (I watched a queen while I was bored). Why isn’t Tartarus infected? Why isn’t Token Black Guy infected? Why isn’t that chick from Halo 2 infected? Everything will be dust before the biosphere bullshit works, so unless you can make a logical bridge with concrete evidence, you might as well just swim to the other side

  83. saintlyDemon July 9, 2015 at 2:51 pm -      #183

    The Reapers don’t need to land to fight, but neither do the flood. If they make it to the Reapers they will most likely have at least one Keymind. That will mean access to most of the tech that they find. Plus they can just ram a couple cruisers into the Reapers and tear them apart from the inside. It won’t be easy, but it will be possible, maybe.

  84. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:00 pm -      #184

    “What are you doing up there?”
    “I’m…guessing…I guess there’s no one around.”
    – lines from Robin Hood: Men in Tights

    I can’t believe I’m using Mel Brooks quotes in this argument, but really? Possible “maybe”? Don’t be Blinkin’-get to thinkin’-the Reapers would just shoot any ship that gets close and before anyone uses Sovereign as an example of nope, keep in mind Sovereign was immobilized while trying to activate the Citadel Relay for Reaper use and couldn’t defend itself (thus why the Geth were being used).

    I’ll give you the whole “use the tech that they find” point, but crashing a ship into one is like sniping with a blunderbuss

  85. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 3:22 pm -      #185

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “What makes you think the Reapers would need to land to fight?”
    Need land? What? The Reapers don’t need land to fight, neither do the Flood.

    “For that matter, why wouldn’t using Relay explosions wipe out the Flood?”
    It would kill the Flood in that system, but that wouldn’t matter because they would already have moved beyond that one system, making it a useless sacrifice

    “And who cares what timeline Andromeda takes if it will take “hundreds and thousands of years” for the Flood to get anywhere?”
    Except it wouldn’t. FTL drives shorten that to hundreds of years assuming all of the Mass Relays are destroyed. Not enough time to run to Andromeda.

    “Also, will the flood refill a ships Eezo reserves? Will they know where to easily acquire it in dark space between systems? Way too many “ifs” for Flood victory at this point.”
    These aren’t “ifs”, these are all “yes.” How is this even a point of debate? Flood of absorbed a pilot, pilot knows ‘need to refill Eezo and this is where to prob for Eezo’, that means Flood knows all of that. Imagine one person with the knowledge of every pilot in the Alliance, that is what the Flood would become.

    “So they’ll infect us all with the mighty biosphere infection”
    Didn’t even mention that, again. But okay, Ignoring that, because I am not arguing a point I didn’t bring up, then.

    “Don’t be Blinkin’-get to thinkin’-the Reapers would just shoot any ship that gets close and before anyone uses Sovereign as an example of nope”
    Logic Plague. Seriously, its like you purposefully forget parts of the Flood. Contact with the Gravemind would infect a Reaper, any type of Reaper, and imbed a self-replicating code within in that one Reaper who would spread it to every other Reaper. This would be super easy in the case of the Reaper, because the Flood is the exact thing the Reaper is made to want to have, a perfect society were no one dies, wants more nothing, needs nothing, no AIs would ever come about. The Reapers would fall for this in quick order.

    And this is where you bring up that it took Mendicant Bias years to fall under the flood, right? So what? Mendicant Bias, by itself, is millions of thousands of times more advanced than the entire Reaper armada. Seriously, please look these things up before claiming they aren’t that great.

  86. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 3:24 pm -      #186

    “the muzzle velocity of a ME handgun is somewhere in the region of 28500 m/s”
    Where did you get 28500 m/s?”

    Whoa, what. I’ve seen hyper-accelreated and hypersonic. But the highest noted in canon that I’ve seen is hypervelocity is mach 8.8(2994 m/s) and mach 14.6929(5000 m/s)
    UNless you talking about the Javelin a handgun with that kind of firepower would be ridiculous. I think the strongest hand gun in universe is still below a sniper rifles.
    ===
    “And this doesn’t matter. Codex already tells us (for then tenth time) how hard Mass Effect weapons hit.”

    It tells us there are limits. It’s immediately after it saying this
    “permitting projectile velocities that were previously unobtainable. If accelerated to a high enough velocity, a simple paint chip can impact with the same destructive force as a nuclear weapon.”
    Basically saying yes, they can essentially tote around railgun like weaponry, but no; we can’t have portable nuke rifles.

    In canon there are devices and people that update weaponry that further allows the increase of the strength of a shot without increasing the recoil by upping the ME generator which is responsible for ME fields that deal with those issues.
    That is why they have a anti shield+armored vehicle rifle that anyone can now fire while walking like it was a regular rifle.
    Recoil is a limiting factor but as with all things in most sci-fi universe, scientific advancement helps with that.

  87. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 3:28 pm -      #187

    @Ninja Lowk
    “Basically saying yes, they can essentially tot around railgun, but no; we can’t have portable nuke rifles.”
    Yeah, the limits of the weapon that have to be in place so that they can be used. If something hit with nuke-like force, it would kill the operator.

    “That is why they have a anti shield+armored vehicle rifle that anyone can now fire while walking like it was a regular rifle.”
    You do realize we have anti-armor stuff with mitigated recoil, yeah? Because they do doesn’t mean “therefore it hits harder than what we have today.”

  88. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 3:51 pm -      #188

    “You do realize we have anti-armor stuff with mitigated recoil, yeah? Because they do doesn’t mean “therefore it hits harder than what we have today.”

    But we aren’t using ME fields whose limiting factor in how hard they can hit is the recoil. If you reduce the recoil then that limit is lowered allowing for the weapon to fire a faster round. Which is precisely what they actually do in canon with upgrades.

  89. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 3:53 pm -      #189

    You said dust can still be enough, so that implies some form of airborne infection that has yet to be proven to work-Chief and Arbiter would have carried the virus on their armor, non-shielded people (Tartarus, Token Black Guy, et cetera) should have been infected since they would have brought the pathogens from heavily Flood-populated areas. Don’t ignore it just because you can’t prove it.

    Once again, prove that destroying the Relays (all of them) wouldn’t wipe out every system with the Flood on them. Many systems aren’t even know to exist to all but five or six people in the know-how (Illusive Man, Shadow Broker, et cetera) and we know for a fact that destroying a Relay from an outside collision causes a particle reaction that destroys entire systems/blocks travel, so how can’t this be used to the advantage of the ME verse? Because the Flood is smart? They’ve proven that they aren’t intelligent time and time again with decisions that are just plain stupid when dealing with assimilation that can bring total victory (Cortana literally knows everything about the humans and Covenant, yet the Flood aren’t amassed in endless waves to guard her while she’s being taken over? Despite how pivotal her assimilation would be? Pure folly).

    We know for a fact that destroying even one or two pivotal Relay in the middle of the Relay chain would be enough to block access to a good portion of the galaxy (thereby leaving the other half as a snack) and we know for a fact that it takes forever to get anywhere using normal FTL-yet you insist on using “maybe” and “possibly” and blind zealotry with no facts to prove it-will the Flood live long enough to get from one system to the next? Will Graveminds and Key Minds be enough to coherently guide the Flood (despite it not killing Chief and Arbiter after using them-another stupid move)? Will Eezo be readily available for the Flood during a time of crisis?

    “This is where you bring up Mendicant Bias up”

    I honestly wouldn’t have if you hadn’t mentioned it, but I will now-more layers aren’t better if the layers are shit-we have the Titanic as a real-world example of that point. What are the mechanics of an individual Forerunner AI? Can they process in unison under a central AI (instead of being one AI, one task)? What is the average processing power of an individual AI versus the central personality? What is their programming quality? It’s like putting ink on tissue paper versus putting ink on a deck of playing cards-the tissue paper would leak more ink through, whereas the playing cards would get maybe one or two cards ink-covered. Prove that the Forerunner AI are better (with facts and not with “because they were”-if they were, then why are the Forerunners dead?) and explain to me why the Halo Rings-designed to contain the Flood-wouldn’t be enough to block the influence of their amassed biomass since it can barely contain the infection forms from hopping onto a ship. They could have easily built a ship using Forerunner knowledge-but they didn’t. They could have easily sent signals out to intelligent life using the technology of the Rings to lure them over-but they didn’t. The amassed Graveminds from countless millions of Forerunners should have amassed some sort of ultra Gravemind-but it didn’t.

    I may seem like a broken record, but at least I admit when I’m wrong (with the Geth, especially) and don’t zealously follow my own opinions over a cliff.

  90. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 3:59 pm -      #190

    @Ninja Lowk
    “But we aren’t using ME fields whose limiting factor in how hard they can hit is the recoil. If you reduce the recoil then that limit is lowered allowing for the weapon to fire a faster round. Which is precisely what they actually do in canon with upgrades.”
    Allowing the weapon to fire a faster round? That doesn’t make it hit hard, though, so…

  91. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 4:15 pm -      #191

    “Allowing the weapon to fire a faster round? That doesn’t make it hit hard, though, so…”

    How exactly do you think ME weapons do damage? Blood magic?
    Pretty much everything is how fast they can make projectile go to do more damage. It’s the principle for how mass accelerators can do kilotons worth of damage with a relatively small object for there ships.
    Do you think a baseball hitting mach 2 who hurt more or less then one only hitting 80 mph.
    It’s like how the Flash does increase his strikes. Think about what a fist can do, now imagine that same fist hitting you at super to hypersonic speeds.

    Also
    Kinetic Coils improve stability by reducing kickback and increase projectile acceleration for extra damage.

  92. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 4:22 pm -      #192

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “You said dust can still be enough, so that implies some form of airborne infection that has yet to be proven to work-Chief and Arbiter would have carried the virus on their armor, non-shielded people (Tartarus, Token Black Guy, et cetera) should have been infected since they would have brought the pathogens from heavily Flood-populated areas. Don’t ignore it just because you can’t prove it.”
    The Dust form of the flood takes a long time to work, years if I remember correctly. I didn’t argue for it though, so I am not going to start now.

    “Once again, prove that destroying the Relays (all of them) wouldn’t wipe out every system with the Flood on them.”
    I just said they could. God, you’re dense. A system that has a Flood infection can be blown up with a Mass Relay, what good does that do when not every system has a Mass Relay? When the Flood can travel from A to B WITHOUT having to use Mass Relays? Destroying the Relays only hurts ME.

    “What are the mechanics of an individual Forerunner AI?”
    We don’t know.

    “Can they process in unison under a central AI (instead of being one AI, one task)?”
    Yeah, Mendicant Bias does this all the time. In fact, evne the less advanced human AI’s can do hunreds of thousands of tasks every second. But I digress.

    “What is the average processing power of an individual AI versus the central personality?”
    Central personality? What class of AI are we talking about here? A Contender-class? Monitor? Metarch? You can’t just ask for “an AI.” I’m just going to assume you mean Contender (since that’s what Mendicant Bias was), The processing power of a Contender Class AI is equal the the precessing power of every Warrior-Servent the Forerunner military had, so, fairly large.

    “What is their programming quality?”
    Again, which class? Should I assume you just mean Contendor-class from now on? Do you mean what is the quality of their programming or what is the quality with which they are able to program?

    “Prove that the Forerunner AI are better (with facts and not with “because they were”-if they were, then why are the Forerunners dead?)”
    Ok, going to assume you mean Contender. Okay, a Contender-Class AI is able to control entire fleets of Forerunner ships. Fleets. Thousands of ships, all at once, while simultaneously monitor Metarch-class AI, who themselves could control a flotilla of ships. Reapers? Reapers each only have an AI that could control itself, a Reaper couldn’t control any other Reaper. So, on one hand, you have an AI that can control thousands of ships while monitoring thousands of AIs who themselves are controlling hundreds of ships and on the other you have an AI that can control a single (comparatively) tiny ship.

    “explain to me why the Halo Rings-designed to contain the Flood-wouldn’t be enough to block the influence of their amassed biomass since it can barely contain the infection forms from hopping onto a ship.”
    I don’t understand what this even has to do with AIs. But, the Halo is just a tool, it needs people using it to work properly.

    “They could have easily built a ship using Forerunner knowledge-but they didn’t. They could have easily sent signals out to intelligent life using the technology of the Rings to lure them over-but they didn’t.”
    Um, they were contained. Tiny containers, made of glass, there weren’t any infected forms to do any of this with and then when there were the Gravemind was more interested with gaining knowledge and not dying.

    “The amassed Graveminds from countless millions of Forerunners should have amassed some sort of ultra Gravemind-but it didn’t.”
    Ultra-Gravemind? Um, no, that’s not how it works. A Gravemind is based of biomass, not available knowledge, and it didn’t kill every Forerunner, Forerunner’s killed themselves.

    “I may seem like a broken record, but at least I admit when I’m wrong (with the Geth, especially) and don’t zealously follow my own opinions over a cliff.”
    Prove I am wrong and I will admit that I am.

  93. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 4:24 pm -      #193

    @Ninja Lowk
    “Pretty much everything is how fast they can make projectile go to do more damage. It’s the principle for how mass accelerators can do kilotons worth of damage with a relatively small object for there ships.”
    I misspoke, I’m sorry. I don’t actually know what I even meant by that. Anyway, these weapons are only slightly stronger than modern weapons at basic power, they can be changed to become stronger but so can modern weapons.

  94. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:35 pm -      #194

    Are you kidding me? Glass tubes can contain the infection forms? Really? The basic creepy-crawly flood can kill Chief in his “I am Jesus” armor, but glass is the great nemesis of the Flood? Just send in Shepard-he (or she) is plot-shielded, and apparently that’s all that’s needed to contain an intergalactic Borg-like threat, so put up a wall of glass and watch the magic happen!

    “They were more interested in gaining knowledge and not dying”

    …so luring other species to the rings to assimilate their knowledge and spread the flood doesn’t make sense? I thought the Graveminds were stupid, but this amount of sheer idiocy is suicidal-by spreading and infecting, the Graveminds could live, gain knowledge, and make everyone into the space-commits that every sci-fi seems to hate. So you’re saying that, against all logic and reason, the Graveminds would sit around sticking a tentacle down their quantum resonance chambers (get the reference..?) doing nothing and this somehow “preserves” the flood when they’re already contained in the greatest prison ever (oh shit, glass! Said no one, ever) and their one enemy just offed themselves? Well, if real life had plot shields the people who hold them would be able to survive a Big Bang with the amount of stupidity.

    I am not asking about the Contender-class; they are made up of thousands of AI, do each individual AI-same questions-go.

  95. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:43 pm -      #195

    So you don’t know the quality of the AI construction? In theory, they could be shittier than a basic AI in Mass Effect since we know fuck-all nothing about them-just because a building is painted chrome doesn’t make it more advanced-just glaringly brighter

  96. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 4:45 pm -      #196

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “Are you kidding me? Glass tubes can contain the infection forms?”
    No. No infection forms. I said that. Spores were kept in tubes, spores that infected Elites when they broke the seal. They pretty much spell all of this out in Halo.

    “…so luring other species to the rings to assimilate their knowledge and spread the flood doesn’t make sense?”
    God, I’m talking in circles here now. They couldn’t do that before Halo: CE because THEY WERE SEALED. Why do you think I even mentioned that? Damnit, man.The Gravemind couldn’t create stuff because, you know, the place he was imprisoned was nothing but his own biomass.and spores can’t do a whole lot then (plus, they would only be around him, thousands of meters below the surface of the surface.) And he couldn’t do this during Halo:CE because, ya know, the Covenant are trying to fire Instillation-05, making sure he had a way off the planet and more biomass takes precedence over maybe getting someone, right?

    “I am not asking about the Contender-class; they are made up of thousands of AI, do each individual AI-same questions-go.”
    Lol, yeah, not gonna do that. The Contender-Class is the only one that matters. If the Flood can corrupt an AI who is made up of thousands of AI that, themselves, can control another thousand AIs, then the Flood can logic-Plague the Reapers… and the Geth.

  97. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 4:46 pm -      #197

    “Anyway, these weapons are only slightly stronger than modern weapons at basic power,”

    I recall Manswers(the BankGamblingr not the show) doing a calc on them. Iirc essentially they are, in comparison to modern day weapons, sort of up a tier from what they are labeled in universe.
    Their pistol’s firepower is more like our rifles(except in the case of heavy pistols), Their assault rifles hit more like sniper rifles, and so on, and so on.
    So yeah, still in the range of modern weapons.
    They aren’t like warhammer or starcraft with marines shooting tanks cannon like shoot or rockets.

  98. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 4:47 pm -      #198

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “So you don’t know the quality of the AI construction? In theory, they could be shittier than a basic AI in Mass Effect since we know fuck-all nothing about them-just because a building is painted chrome doesn’t make it more advanced-just glaringly brighter”
    Except we know they’re not. Hell, Cortana by herself is billions (hyperbole) of years more advanced then Mass Effect AI.

  99. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 4:48 pm -      #199

    @Ninja Lowk
    “I recall Manswers(the BankGamblingr not the show) doing a calc on them. Iirc essentially they are, in comparison to modern day weapons, sort of up a tier from what they are labeled in universe.”
    Maybe with mods, but I’m not talking about mods, I was originally only talking about the basic weapon.

  100. Ciridae Hunter July 9, 2015 at 4:54 pm -      #200

    So in all that time-millions of years-nothing would happen to the Rings to make the glass break? No asteroids? No derelict ships containing flood would return? Nothing? They were just all contained and the end?

    Why is Cortana more advanced? Because we slapped a bitch’s brain in her? So a Fallout Robobrain is as advanced as she is just because they have brains. Computers NOW can process tasks like Forerunner AI so long as we have the right tech and a good coolant. WATSON is more advanced than two genius minds which, in your opinion, are able to create a master AI apiece. Piling shit doesn’t make the Statue of David-only a bigger pile of shit.

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