What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?

What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe-

Suggested by itcheyness

What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?

While traversing slipspace the flood controlled Covenant cruiser Indulgence of Conviction (The Cruiser that brought the flood to Earth in the Halo 3 mission Floodgate) suffers a strange accident. Whether through a fluke of Quantum Mechanics, or the mad designs of some depraved god, an exact duplicate of the ship is created. While the original continues on to Earth, the duplicate is thrown wildly across dimensions and crash lands on the Systems Alliance colony of Eden Prime in the Mass Effect universe during the time period of Mass Effect 2.

There are 2 scenarios here

  1. Through a crazy series of events involving a computer virus somehow combining with the Common Cold, The Reapers get lost in space and do not show up in the Mass Effect galaxy.
  1. The Reapers updated their anti-virus software and ate a bunch of oranges, so computer/cold virus combo had no effect and the Reapers continue on as usual.

Will the Mass Effect races be able to deal with this new threat in time, or will the Flood turn the entire galaxy into an unending hellscape of shambling horrors?

How will this end?

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241 Comments on "What if the Flood came to the Mass Effect Universe?"

  1. Commander Cross July 8, 2015 at 12:51 am -      #1

    Well a lot’s gonna go down depending on where the Flood start in Mass Effect, and what faction(s) if any find them first.

    If all of M.E don’t get their Horse$hit in High-Gear together before it’s too late, prepare to fight The Flood in a Cosmic War that has never been seen since the one where The Grand Princes of Hell got trapped in the Mega-verse of the same name, The Abrahamic Devil being among the Grand Princes themselves.

    In other words, Cue the Night-Terror fuel that would give no one alive or existing any sort of good sleep on end.

    From what I heard about Silentium, a lot of twisted stuff went down in Pre-Modern!-Halo the last I checked, and the stuff I DID read on it is from TV Tropes.

  2. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 12:58 am -      #2

    On the plus side, Mass Effect universe literally has a built-in way to quarantine something like the Flood via the Relays.

  3. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 1:25 am -      #3

    Can they affect inorganics like the Geth or the Reaper-controlled Collectors? If they can’t then it’s just send them to Geth space and wait for things to sort themselves out.

    The Mass Relays won’t stop stowaway Flood or the sheer stupidity of some of the Alliance crews from getting them into other relay locations. Hell, the Reapers might help them get past the Relays (a convenient Plan B). Money is still on the Geth wiping them out, though.

  4. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 3:13 am -      #4

    Don’t they have access to the Precursor’s knowledge or something? And in one of the new books, don’t the Forerunner-Flood War era Flood apparently go Replicator mode and make the technology more effective than it already is, due to their apparent Precursor knowledge? I haven’t read the books myself, so I might be barking up the wrong tree of course.

  5. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 3:14 am -      #5

    Oh, and I don’t know if it would work on the Reapers, but couldn’t the Flood use their logic virus on the Geth, and wouldn’t it spread rather easily due to how connected the Geth are?

  6. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 3:34 am -      #6

    I don’t think the virus works too well against advanced AI like Legion, since all it really does is attempt to override the existing logic with Flood ideologies-besides that, the logic virus takes far too long to assimilate targets to be effective against trigger-happy Turians or Krogans who would just shoot until there isn’t enough for the afterlife. A single Geth unit being converted by the Flood would also be easily identified by the collective and would be removed to preserve the unified Geth body since the Flood logic would be unable to spread as effectively as the already inefficient one-on-one method seemingly employed by it.

    In order to conquer the Geth, the Flood would have to capture at least a Saren splinter cell worth of Geth, assimilate them all at the same time, and unleash them to infect the rest of the Geth-but the fact remains that even if the Flood could capture that many Geth that the overall numbers of the Geth, combined with the Geth’s ability to overload it’s systems when they are compromised, would make the virus ultimately useless.

  7. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 3:43 am -      #7

    I doubt that Geth AI is more advanced than Forerunner AI, considering the fact that the Forerunners were advanced to the point of having Voodoo Space Magic.

  8. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 4:16 am -      #8

    In every instance of the “advanced” Forerunner AI being taken over it took an impractical amount of time-the first instance took over forty years! Cortana is a human-made AI and yet she was able to avoid full assimilation (granted by sheer luck). The virus takes far too long to be effective and-like I mentioned-the Geth can overload their own systems when compromised so the unit isn’t harmed. That alone makes them pretty much immune.

    Let us say that a splinter cell similar to Saren’s is made (a faction that is a tiny fraction of the Geth’s reasoning power) and they start worshipping the Flood (which wouldn’t make sense since the Flood is mainly organic) and they are willing to wipe out organics like the Saren cell. Even with the tens of thousands of Geth (a fair estimate since the Geth can be stored easily) it would mean that millions of other unified Geth units would be able to combat and eliminate the Flood faction-or at least avoid being infected further by them.

    If the virus was as powerful as you seem to think, then it should have easily been able to assimilate Cortana in less than an hour (human AI has a history of sucking very large eggs in and verse-including Halo) but it doesn’t-Cortana manages to maintain her independence even with the methods employed by the Gravemind (which worked on Forerunner tech even in its juvenile stages) and she is able to combat other collective AI’s which you claim to be far more advanced. Every piece of tech, from weapons to machines to those damnable human transport crafts that always seem to crash when Chief is nearby, is hilariously awful-and the AI are no exceptions. On the other hand, Mass Effect takes a rather Dune prospective on AI by making it out to be an unstoppable force (which is right, in a way, especially with the Reapers taken into account) and technology actually works even at its lowest levels without the need for shitty story holes (such as the addition of Tartarus’ shield and not explaining how the shield can continuously activate and recharge without breaking-not saying mass effect isn’t like that, but not like Halo)

    Night-late here

  9. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 4:30 am -      #9

    I never said it was all powerful, I was just assuming it wouldn’t take as long to drive the AI insane, because I thought the Geth’s AI wasn’t as advanced as Forerunner AI.

  10. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 4:34 am -      #10

    It’s actually quite rudimentary in individual format; the Geth’s greatest strength is in numbers since the AI can work together. The Flood would have to take over at least a third of the millions of Geth in a short amount of time (which would be impossible based on current virus specs) for the virus to have a chance at overriding the collective.

    Have to sleep now; almost two in the morning where I’m at.

  11. mack006 July 8, 2015 at 7:23 am -      #11

    Ohhhh boy…. since the Council are a bunch of ostriches, prefering to bury their heads under the sands rather than address the issue to public like a sinner in a confession rite, I am pretty certain that the Flood will consume the ME universe in a few weeks.

    Are they still connected to the Gravemind or are they feral once again?

  12. the_man_with The_Answers July 8, 2015 at 8:06 am -      #12

    “In every instance of the “advanced” Forerunner AI being taken over it took an impractical amount of time-the first instance took over forty years! ”

    Considering advanced Forerunner AIs are likely to be more capable than the entire Geth collective…
    Or rather Mendicant Bias is, which is the only known AI to have taken ~40 years to fall. Other, more “primitive” (By Forerunner standards) AI fall rather quickly.

    “A single Geth unit being converted by the Flood would also be easily identified by the collective and would be removed to preserve the unified Geth body since the Flood logic would be unable to spread as effectively as the already inefficient one-on-one method seemingly employed by it.”

    That may be the case, but where there are Geth units there are Geth hubs, and I doubt they would fare well if the Flood got into one of those.

    “If the virus was as powerful as you seem to think, then it should have easily been able to assimilate Cortana in less than an hour (human AI has a history of sucking very large eggs in and verse-including Halo) but it doesn’t-Cortana manages to maintain her independence even with the methods employed by the Gravemind (which worked on Forerunner tech even in its juvenile stages)”

    Cortana was at the complete mercy of the Gravemind from moment one, as made abundantly clear in “Human Weakness.” In fact, the messages sent to Chief during Halo 3, the device sent on the ship in Floodgate, and the talking from Cortana during the mission “Cortana” was literally the Gravemind using Cortana as his vocal puppet. Perhaps the only things Cortana did was conceal the Index from him. Otherwise she was completely helpless to him, and he didn’t appear to even be remotely trying.

    Should also be noted that Cortana is rather exceptional for a human AI, likely due to being created from not only a living brain, but also from perhaps the smartest human being that has ever lived up to that point.


    Mass Effect Circa Mass Effect 2 is a time period where entire Human colonies were going completely dark (Read: Being wiped out by the Collectors) and the Alliance barely bated an eye. Nobody would notice if the Flood invaded the Batarians, and the Council in general is almost memetically ignorant to stuff like this up until the threat is knocking on their door.

    Mass Effect Relays would seem like a good choke point, but that’s forgetting that the Flood have no need to worry about fighting in space beyond ramming enemy ships and crash landing on the planet. God forbid an infected ship finds itself on the Citadel early on before the threat is clearly established.

    With the Geth being isolationists, they won’t know about the Flood until it has significantly progressed, and even then may not be very concerned as it only ‘seems’ to target organics from their perspective. Which would be quite a bit too late, or far enough to the point where Flood contact with Geth units is going to infect them similar to how infection forms do their work. Higher-level Flood access to Geth command units is going to be devastating on a local level, and access to hubs or primary systems will be catastrophic.

  13. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 8:33 am -      #13

    Also, didn’t the Flood, during their war with the Forerunners, have access to some other form of FTL, not just slipspace? Or was it just the Precursors who used differing methods of space travel?

  14. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 8:42 am -      #14

    Anyway, given just how useless the primary military forces of the Citadel races are (Needing Shepherd to do practically EVERYTHING), Eden Prime would probably be overrun in a couple of days, especially since the Citadel races would have no prior knowledge of the flood and how they work, and they would most likely have a difficult job acquiring specimens for research.

    Would it be possible for the Flood to repair the Indulgence of Conviction? They were able to effectively control parts of the Infinite Succour, shutting off life support etc etc. Because if they did, they’d have a massive advantage over Mass Effect, being able to use slipspace would allow them to surprise attack worlds, and, since they wouldn’t be using the Mass Relays, wouldn’t they be exceptionally hard to track? Also, I assume Covenant ships are far more powerful than Mass Effect ones.

  15. the_man_with The_Answers July 8, 2015 at 12:07 pm -      #15

    Indulgence of Conviction is more than likely down permanently. It could barely survive its jump in Halo 3, and it isn’t exactly one piece after impact. And while the Flood has access to some superior form of slipspace, they would need some form of a slipspace drive to use it, so that’s probably a no go on the Flood using Slipspace in this case.

  16. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 12:49 pm -      #16

    All it takes is a single Flood to be on a fleeing human’s ship and voila-the Relays won’t keep them isolated

  17. pimpmage July 8, 2015 at 1:08 pm -      #17

    Can’t the flood take over concepts? Maybe I am miss remembering. I recall people explaining how they can get kinda meta with their infection processes.

  18. Epicazeroth July 8, 2015 at 1:15 pm -      #18

    @AreNamesNeeded: It’s not really that the militaries are useless. It’s that the Council doesn’t let them act, so Shepard had to take matters into his/her own hands. When the various races actually mobilize, they did pretty well against the Reapers in ME3.

    “they’d have a massive advantage over Mass Effect, being able to use slipspace”
    How fast could they go? The Relays let you cross the galaxy in minutes (you have to go around the center).

    “Also, I assume Covenant ships are far more powerful than Mass Effect ones.”
    How powerful are the guns on a CCS battlecruiser? More importantly, how likely would they be to hit and how fast?
    ===
    What’s the range of the Indulgence’s weaponry? HaloNation says its biggest guns have a range of 100Mm, which is frankly pathetic.

    I’d like to point out the Alliance had no problem blowing up a solar system to delay the Reapers for a few months, so I doubt they’d care about losing Eden Prime if they knew what the Flood were.

    The Flood do have one major advantage right from the start, though. There’s nobody to oppose them on Eden Prime during ME2, so they could very well take over the planet before anyone noticed. Of course, they might not be able to get off either if there aren’t any ships large enough to use the Relays.

  19. Epicazeroth July 8, 2015 at 1:23 pm -      #19

    @Ciridae: Eden Prime has a population of like 4 million. Which means either they’re all spread far apart and the Flood won’t be able to reach them in time, or they all live fairly close together and the Flood could very well kill them all before anyone can flee.

  20. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 1:31 pm -      #20

    Then I doubt the Indulgence would survive crashing on Eden since its in pieces in the Halo-verse. How would they leave the planet? If they just kill everything willy-nilly, then they’re basically going to lose the match then and there since I doubt flapping their arms (tentacles, other appendages) like wings will help them through a Relay.

    Also, how would they be at handling travel through the Mass Relay assuming they did manage to commandeer a ship? Navigating Mass Relays is extremely dangerous if you can’t operate a ship effectively, since a ship would literally be torn apart without the shields made by the drive cores. If they can’t stowaway zombie-apocalypse style, then my money is on the Alliance blowing Eden Prime to hell with the Flood on it.

  21. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 1:38 pm -      #21

    The main thing about slipspace is that it doesn’t require a Mass Relay, so if a Relay is deactivated or destroyed, it wouldn’t matter to the flood. Plus, they’d be much harder to find.

    I don’t remember anything about the Alliance blowing up a solar system, although I have only played Mass Effect 2 and a bit of 3. I highly doubt they could use such weaponry all the time. Also, aren’t Covenant ships much larger than those of Mass Effect? And generally have better shielding and weaponry?

    And the Flood themselves wreck any close combat situations. If the basic combat form can bitch slap a Spartan Super Soldier, I don’t think most of the Mass Effect races could hold up, apart from Krogan. Though don’t the Citadel races have better standard issue weaponry than the UNSC?

  22. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 1:41 pm -      #22

    @Ciridae Hunter

    The thought of a flood carrier form trying to fly by flapping its useless arms is pretty funny. Thanks for that.

  23. Around999People July 8, 2015 at 1:45 pm -      #23

    Can’t the flood also assimilate memories as seen in the games? As well as learn. In Halo 3 I think there’s a scene with a marine saying he taught the Flood how to use Human weapons. In Halo: Combat Evolved weren’t the flood using the captain to turn him into a proto-gravemind as well as taking his memories?
    ~
    Anyone know how much of a population a covenant cruiser has? Because, that’s all it took for them to start making a grave mind and getting people’s memories.
    ~
    My theory is that the Flood might learn that they need to stow-away infection forms and bid their time until their spread out before making a massive move against the verse so that they wouldn’t be isolated.
    ~
    Also, flood infected ships don’t need to use relay’s, they can just fly normally at other planets. It might take a while, but, they’ll get there. In the Forerunner books the flood had no problem waiting for a trip between galaxies, though they did turn to dust.

  24. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 1:45 pm -      #24

    I don’t remember anything about the Alliance blowing up a solar system

    It was DLC, but it’s canon as ME3 starts with you on trial for doing it.

    And the Flood themselves wreck any close combat situations.

    Zombies and zombie wannabes are never going to be a threat in reality like they are in video games. Especially not for a universe that has more advanced weapons than Halo.

  25. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 1:46 pm -      #25

    As we have pointed out, the Indulgence crash-landed when it used slip space, so I doubt it would be functional enough to fly again (especially since it’s practically in fifty pieces when it does crash land). Every standard weapon in Mass Effect is better than in Halo-even with the crappiest weapon (human stuff, basically) it doesn’t take three mags to bring down an elite soldier (we all know what crappy weapon I’m speaking of). Every race from there, from Krogans onward, have more advanced weaponry and biotics than humans (save Krogans-I don’t think they have biotics). Plus mass-accelerated slugs would easily tear through the Flood (oddly enough the Flood seem really weak against projectile weaponry)

  26. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 1:51 pm -      #26

    Also, its fairly possible that while the majority of the flood are nomming their way through Edan Primes population, that a group of flood could infect a pilot, assimilate their knowledge, and steal a ship? They could fill it with spores and crash it inside the Citadel, where it would spread easy, considering the fact they took over High Charity in what was apparently a couple of days, and High Charity was much, much, much larger than the Citadel. From there they could insert ships filled with spores onto many of the Citadel races worlds.

    Also, I don’t know if its canon, but in the Halo Mona Lisa comic thingy, the combat forms were able to infect through wounds, like traditional zombies.

  27. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 2:06 pm -      #27

    @Friendlysociopath

    A flood combat form could kill a Spartan in melee combat. Whether zombies would be effective in real life is irrelevant. What is relevant is that a combat form can kill a Spartan with a wack from its, uh… Tentacles? Tendrils?

    So, while the weaponry in Mass Effect is much more effective, the flood will have access to it as well. And if its up close, then the battles lost. Spartans are super soldiers, augmented to be tougher and stronger than normal humans, right? Thus, logically, if a combat form can kill a Spartan up close, it can kill a normal human up close.

    Though the incinerate ability/ammo whatever it was would be incredibly effective against the flood. Would the flood be able to use the biotic abilities of a biotic host?

  28. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 8, 2015 at 2:08 pm -      #28

    “Also, how would they be at handling travel through the Mass Relay assuming they did manage to commandeer a ship? Navigating Mass Relays is extremely dangerous if you can’t operate a ship effectively, since a ship would literally be torn apart without the shields made by the drive cores. If they can’t stowaway zombie-apocalypse style, then my money is on the Alliance blowing Eden Prime to hell with the Flood on it.”

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124784/3555678-halo_gn_053_rougher.jpg

    If someone on that planet knows how to operate a ship, then so do the flood. The flood are a lot less “space zombie” then the games would have you believe.

  29. Around999People July 8, 2015 at 2:09 pm -      #29

    @AreNamesNeeded
    How are biotics used? Or, how are they there in the first place? If it’s something like a part of their brain, I don’t see why not. Flood have the ability to use weapons, and even vehicles/ships so I don’t see why not if there’s no special requirement for the use of biotics.

  30. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 2:12 pm -      #30

    Also, its fairly possible that while the majority of the flood are nomming their way through Edan Primes population, that a group of flood could infect a pilot, assimilate their knowledge, and steal a ship?

    None of the group that appeared on Earth displayed that level of planning and intellect to my knowledge.

    A flood combat form could kill a Spartan in melee combat.

    Key word, melee combat. There’s no reason for that to ever come about.

    So, while the weaponry in Mass Effect is much more effective, the flood will have access to it as well.

    Because the Flood in Halo 3 were picking up all sorts of weapons to use against you.

    If Halo UNSC forces could contain and otherwise deal with the Flood incursion in Halo 3- the Mass Effect troops will have no problems with them.

  31. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 2:13 pm -      #31

    @Around999People

    The thought of a biotic flood sending Shepherd flying through the air is rather amusing.

    I don’t know exactly how biotics work, but to consciously use such abilities, they would most likely be connected to the nervous system, I guess. Its not space magic, as far as I know.

  32. Around999People July 8, 2015 at 2:16 pm -      #32

    @Friendlysociopath
    If you ever played a Halo game than you know flood are fully capable of using weapons. In Halo 3 there’s a part with a marine saying he taught them how to use weapons. There have been scene’s where flood have piloted ships such as Pelican’s.

    ~

    Also, how would the ‘range’ of weapons come into effect if flood drop down on them from a ventilation shaft?

    ~

    Also, don’t flood have the ability to infect via atmosphere?

  33. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 2:17 pm -      #33

    Biotic implants are connected to the nervous system and requires years of training to use effectively; the basically make mass effect fields and deploy them in certain ways. And just to point out, there were no biotics on Eden Prime and there were only a token force of Alliance operatives on the planet at all, so I doubt the Flood would even be able to recognize a biotic before they tentacle-slap their head off

  34. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 2:20 pm -      #34

    @Friendlysociopath

    Gameplay wise, the flood are pretty gimped, and they are useless in game, apart from close combat. Lore wise and in books and stuff, the flood are like Halo’s equivalent of the Tyranids, utterly unstoppable, until the Forerunners cheated and used the Halo Array.

    Your right though, as long as the Citadel races don’t sit there with their thumbs up their asses, they should do fine. I wish the games had done the flood some justice. Precursor Flood would annihilate Mass Effect.

    This whole scenario is unfair to the flood, they should at least have been given a fully functional ship to use, so they don’t get roflstomped.

  35. Around999People July 8, 2015 at 2:22 pm -      #35

    Ok, so I guess they won’t be able to use biotics right off the bat. Maybe in time, since they gain memories. But I doubt it.

  36. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 2:24 pm -      #36

    @Around999People

    Yeah, the flood can use their spores to both infect and terraform. That’s how they covered High Charity in goop.

  37. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 2:25 pm -      #37

    “…from a ventilation shaft?”

    *in sarcastic tone* Because there are a million places on Eden Prime with ventilation shafts.

    You can teach a parrot how to speak, but that doesn’t mean it can comprehend the implications of Aristotle’s works. Just because they can pull a trigger doesn’t mean they know how to 360 no-scope.

    You do realize that everything they “pilot” crashes, right? Like, every scene we ever see of them “piloting” involved crashing into the broadside of a planet? Like I said, just because they can put their foot on the gas doesn’t mean they can parallel park. It seems that every time they “learn” they only learn the gist of something.

  38. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 2:27 pm -      #38

    If you ever played a Halo game than you know flood are fully capable of using weapons.

    Holding a weapon and not firing it is not using the weapon. They can’t use the weapons they pick up in Halo 3. And they seem to not be very big on motor skills to begin with, so I’d question how good they would be with said weapons anyways.
    And again, there’s no reason for this to happen as all the humans have to do is shoot the enemy before they reach them. Halo troops were performing this perfectly well, Mass Effect weaponry and armor is superior to Halo’s armor and weapons.

    Also, how would the ‘range’ of weapons come into effect if flood drop down on them from a ventilation shaft?

    How would it come into effect if the Flood is just running across an open field like the zombies they are? Don’t just cherry-pick a perfect scenario like that’s going to happen.

    There’s no Gravemind mentioned, only basic Flood from the one ship. Those Flood are pretty stupid and do not make large-scale and secretive plans. They can easily be killed by projectile weapons and will probably not even take down the population of Eden Prime, let alone be a threat anywhere else.

    Oh, don’t forget that Flood infection forms tend to fail against shielding, which happens to be pretty standard for Mass Effect forces.

  39. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 2:28 pm -      #39

    The problem with using the spores on Eden Prime is that it isn’t an artificial space like the High Charity-air isn’t recycled, there’s no artificial atmosphere keeping things in, and Eden Prime is too vast for it to be used effectively

  40. Epicazeroth July 8, 2015 at 2:28 pm -      #40

    @Names: “I don’t remember anything about the Alliance blowing up a solar system”
    In the Arrival DLC. They crash an asteroid into a Relay and the resulting explosion glasses every planet in the solar system.

    “Also, aren’t Covenant ships much larger than those of Mass Effect?”
    The Indulgence is around twice the size of the largest human ship. Most dreadnoughts are 1km ± 50m. The Destiny Ascension is (just my estimate) 2/3 – 3/4 the length, but 4-5 times the height and width.

    “Though don’t the Citadel races have better standard issue weaponry than the UNSC?”
    Don’t modern armies have better standard issue weaponry than the UNSC?
    ===
    @Ciridae: Krogans have biotics. They don’t have very many cause they all keep dying, but they have some. The ones they do have are some of (if not the) most powerful biotic warriors in the galaxy.
    ===
    What if the Flood absorbed Javik? Unlikely, but what if?

  41. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 2:35 pm -      #41

    Welp, the flood seem to be defeated here. If they were given better starting conditions, such as a functional ship and a Gravemind, they may have actually done fairly well, but it looks like they’ve been stamped out before they even had a chance to grow.

  42. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 2:36 pm -      #42

    Off topic, but a Salarian Flood would be hilarious.

    I doubt the population of Eden Prime (mostly civilians) would be much of a threat to the Flood, but the Alliance soldiers would easily be able to send distress signals and an organization like Cerberus could go in and clean up.

  43. Around999People July 8, 2015 at 2:36 pm -      #43

    In Combat Evolved, Halo 2 and Halo 3 the flood shoot at you with Human and Covenant weapons. They don’t need to be able to do trick shots, but pointing in someone’s direction and shooting there is the same thing that soldiers do, though with more aiming.
    ~
    The flood don’t need to be able to pilot precisely, point the ship in the direction of some other planet and press the gas and crash on it. With them being the flood they don’t really need to land ‘safely’ as you pointed out with them crashing.
    ~
    And in Halo 2 they don’t seem to be ‘crashing’ when the flood uses ghosts to shoot you. (mission Quarantine Zone)

  44. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 2:45 pm -      #44

    They actually crashed every time they fought me on that level…also, ground vehicles like the Ghosts can’t be compared to the Pelicans (which seem pre-destined to crash even with humans piloting them) since flying is more complex then “foot on gas, move forward” caveman logic. The basic Flood use barely-learned basics; for example, no one has ever died from a Flood-assimilated human sniping Chief or from a hacked ship’s security systems. They just aren’t that smart at the lowest levels.

    We still have a few posts, so if the OP approves we can install a Gravemind into the match

  45. Epicazeroth July 8, 2015 at 2:45 pm -      #45

    @Names: “as long as the Citadel races don’t sit there with their thumbs up their asses”
    They’ll act. They’ll just act really damn slowly.
    ===
    @Around: There are no other populated planets near Eden Prime. They’d have to know how to pilot a ship with a Mass Effect drive, which would require a full crew.
    ===
    ME armor also comes equipped with filters and self-contained breathing breathing devices. As soon as the Alliance learns the threat can be airborne, they’ll start using those.

    The only problem is that this is happening while the Collectors are harvesting planets. So the Alliance would just think it’s a Collector attack; it’s not very likely they’d act quickly. Cerberus might, but they have Shepard investigating other attacks. If the Flood had crashed on, say, a Turian colony things would be different.

  46. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 2:48 pm -      #46

    How would this have gone down if the flood had started off in the Citadel?

  47. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 2:54 pm -      #47

    C-Sec is massive in ME2, criminal organizations have weapons, the Asari are all pretty much biotics in some degree, Krogans can just pick up something heavy and use the Flood for baseball, plus weapons are usually stored on ships since C-Sec is tighter than usual, so there would be a massive fight on our hands…but that isn’t the scenario.

    “Fervent Anger, you stand no chance. You will be defeated” – Flood-controlled Hanar

  48. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm -      #48

    How would this have gone down if the flood had started off in the Citadel?

    Depends on a few things (Not poking fun, but that would’ve been a cooler debate in my mind than Eden, especially when ME has the actual step of destroying an entire Solar System when the problem warrants it):
    1) At what point in time? ME1 would be easy since Saren is already attacking the place. ME2 would be harder as they’re still on high alert from the previous attack and security is everywhere. ME3 is the place in a state of war with everyone being as uber-careful as they can.
    2) Should they succeed, the primary leadership of most races would be hurt. Not destroyed, but hurt. It’d be the equivalent of killing one of our country’s UN representatives. A problem, but it doesn’t completely stop the country.
    3) Reapers would most definitely not care for the Flood, inorganic or bust; that includes germs. So unless the Flood were to be able to 100% do what it took combined forces of the entire ME universe to pull off; Reapers restart cycle at the end.

    @Ciridae
    It took more than one glance to get that joke- but when I did I can’t stop smiling.

  49. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 3:19 pm -      #49

    Would the Reapers even bother attacking the Flood in the first place? They don’t use or create AI, other than those they infect with the logic virus. Its far more likely that the Reapers would indoctrinate the flood and use them as an effective way of harvesting planets. The Reapers can then wait 50000 years, unleash the flood again, and again and again.

    I assume they could use their control to suppress the creation of a Gravemind, and they could transport the flood around the galaxy rather quickly. It takes years for Reapers to fully harvest a world, whereas the flood are apparently, much, much faster. Once a world has been harvested, they then command their flood minions to return to them.

    OR they don’t bother to attack the flood at all. The Reapers function is to preserve organic life. It doesn’t matter what that life is. Human. Asari. Turian. No matter. The flood doesn’t use or need synthetics, the flood is generally completely connected (when they have a Gravemind), so it wouldn’t have wars with itself or anything.

    The Reapers may actually see the flood as a way of solving the problem of organic vs synthetic. The Reapers only act to preserve organic life, because they believe that organics always create synthetics to improve their quality of life, and said synthetics always rebel etc etc. That problem doesn’t exist with the flood. So the Reapers may in fact ignore the flood.

  50. Epicazeroth July 8, 2015 at 4:33 pm -      #50

    @Friendly: “ME3 is the place in a state of war with everyone being as uber-careful as they can.”
    Well, having them crash mid-ME3 could be interesting…

    “It’d be the equivalent of killing one of our country’s UN representatives.”
    No it wouldn’t. The Citadel Council makes all the decisions; only non-members ever really ignore them. People ignore the UN all the time. Also, the Council’s economic, political, and military influence is vastly more proportionately than the UN’s. The Mass Effect galaxy functions much more like Star Wars (probably prequel era) than the real world.

  51. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 4:50 pm -      #51

    Except Mass Effect doesn’t have Clone Troopers or Jedi.

  52. Alpha or Omega July 8, 2015 at 4:59 pm -      #52

    Pretty sure he was relating Mass Effect and Star Wars in how their government or whatever works and how expansive they both are.
    Star Wars did have a council+chancellor that made the decisions.
    But, I do recall some The Clone Wars stuff where the Jedi conflicted with them.

  53. itcheyness July 8, 2015 at 5:22 pm -      #53

    The reason why I didn’t have it land at The Citadel, was because I figured that would be an immediate win for The Flood. They would decapitate ME’s galactic leadership and the center of their economic power, thus crippling them as their opening move and learning immediately where every major population center is from the leaders gathered there.

    I chose Eden Prime because I figured that it was small and out of the way enough the The Flood would be able to establish themselves and start to spread before the Alliance realized what had happened, but that it was also big enough to provide a Gravemind relatively quickly and some means of travel out of the system through freighters and the like.

  54. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 5:30 pm -      #54

    This was funny. The flood would eradicate the ME universe. Okay, so, first let’s start off with Eden Prime.

    According to the Mass Effect wiki, Eden Prime has a population of about 4.2 million. Halo: The Flood shows us, it only takes the entire crew of a CCS-Class Battlecruiser (a crew ranging in the low thousands) a Proto-Gravemind, 4.2 million will do fine to create a Gravemind even if all the biomass isn’t used towards this goal, but that’s getting ahead of myself. Let’s go back to just a basic infection. The Flood beings to infect whole townships, eventually they’ll absorb someone who can use a gun and then they can use weapons as well as they absorb both memory and skill form their host. Remember that. Even if they can’t consume the entire planet in a relatively short time period, we’re talking days here, that just means the Alliance will be called in – hello the Flood’s ride out of here!

    This is the part where the Gravemind would be finished now, after the entire 4.2 population of Eden Prime is assimilated, the Alliance ship comes down to investigate planet (for argument’s sake, let’s assume they wore helmets so they aren’t infected by spores right away. The Flood would throw themselves in droves at the ship, all 4.2 million people who weren’t used to make the Gravemind attacking the Alliance ship until just one, just a single person, get’s infected – which at least one would, the Flood are spore’s are capable of piecing the titanium nanocomposit bodysuit of MJOLNIR, the ceramic plating isn’t protecting them for long. Then the Gravemind just let’s them go, it can connect with the Flood form from across the Galaxy so there’s no need to do anything else.

    After that, the Allaince falls quick, not only do the Flood get better and better with each body the get, their numbers grow constantly and since they get both the memories and skills of their hosts, Biotic users are now under their control. All of the organic races would fall, even if you want to make the argument that the Geth could somehow not get robbed by the logic plague

    — mid-rant rant!
    [ The logic plague would totally squash the Geth. It took, what, 40 years to get Mendicant Bias under their thumb? Do you know how large that one AI is? Mendicant is a Contender-class AI, which is composed of other Metarch-class AI “minds”, each Metarch-class AI by itself could rival the entirety of the Geth. ]
    — mid-rant rant over.

    That one race isn’t going to be a problem for the other 5 races to deal with at all.

    In this universe, the Flood does what it always wanted. It eradicates life from the universe.

  55. Rookie July 8, 2015 at 5:33 pm -      #55

    @Sokogeki

    Welcome to BankGambling.

  56. Limbo Lowk July 8, 2015 at 6:49 pm -      #56

    Mass Effect is boned. Flood space magic bullshit>Mass effect space magic. Plus due to thier regulations, by the time they are allowed to use thier WMD options like anti-matter or nanotech it will be to late.
    ===
    “Except Mass Effect doesn’t have Clone Troopers or Jedi.”

    You sure?
    Order of warrior monks who adhere to a strict creed and manipulate the world around the with thier minds? They got that.
    Cloned armies of made from a race of warriors. Got that to.

  57. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 6:52 pm -      #57

    @Rookie

    Is he the new guy that sits there wanking Halo?

  58. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 6:54 pm -      #58

    “Order of Warrior Monks”

    You sure you ain’t talking about the Ultramarines mate?

  59. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 6:57 pm -      #59

    @AreNamesNeeded
    Why don’t you ask me yourself? No, I don’t “wank” Halo, nor do I wank Mass Effect, against the Flood, the ME universe fails, HARD.

  60. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 7:11 pm -      #60

    @Sokogeki

    First off, the Flood are in the feral stage. No Gravemind, they are a bunch of mumbling idiots.

    Second: The Flood spores never got into Master Chiefs suit, in the book Halo : The Flood a single infection form managed to slip past his shields, which is where you might be confusing the two.

    Third: The Citadel races have better weaponry than that of the UNSC. And they are far more competent. Next, there’s the space travel. The flood have to use the Mass Relays like everybody else, and there’s only so many Mass Relays in existence.

    Its quite possible that the closest Relay to Eden Prime could be destroyed in order to stamp out the infection, and to prevent it from spreading. And its also possible that the Citadel races could each setup ‘guard’ fleets to decimate the flood when they finish travelling.

    The main danger the flood poses in Halo is that it uses Slipspace, its unpredictable, it can strike in a surprise attack. Its much less capable of doing so when there’s only a finite amount of Relays it can use, and each potential destination could be told to ‘get ready’ for the incoming flood.

  61. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 7:15 pm -      #61

    I like how I was arguing for the flood at first, but I’ve now jumped on the Mass Effect bandwagon.

  62. Limbo Lowk July 8, 2015 at 7:26 pm -      #62

    Oh there feral. Well I’ll have to change my answer. Eden Prime is boned. Ppor Eden Prime.

  63. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 7:30 pm -      #63

    I like how I was arguing for the flood at first, but I’ve now jumped on the Mass Effect bandwagon.

    Ironically it’s all thanks to the Reapers; those Relays really making “camp the spawn point” a very viable strategy.

  64. itcheyness July 8, 2015 at 7:35 pm -      #64

    Just a quick note, Mass Effect has FTL that doesn’t require mass relays.

    masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL

    It’s used to go to places without mass relays after getting as close to the destination as possible with them.

  65. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 7:36 pm -      #65

    @Friendlysociopath

    Reaper: OKAY GUYZ WE’RE GONNA CALL OF DOOTY THIS, JUST HIDE IN THE CORNER AND 360 NOSCOPE EM WHEN THEY SPAWN!

  66. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 7:36 pm -      #66

    @AreNamesNeeded
    “First off, the Flood are in the feral stage. No Gravemind, they are a bunch of mumbling idiots. ”

    Yep. This stage would be immediately passed up, as I already explained. A CCS-Class battlecruises has a crew of a few thousand, that plus Keyes was enough to make a Proto-Gravemind, the population of Eden Prime, which again is 4.2 million, is mroe than enough to create a Gravemind within days of first contact.

    “Second: The Flood spores never got into Master Chiefs suit, in the book Halo : The Flood a single infection form managed to slip past his shields, which is where you might be confusing the two. ”

    I misremembered, it was an infection form. Besides that, what I said was correct.

    “Third: The Citadel races have better weaponry than that of the UNSC. And they are far more competent.”

    Lol, no. For weapons, they straight up say that ME weapons = modern weapons when they tell us that recoil is contingent on the force of the bullet. they’re actually slightly, slightly, stronger, but not enough to change the outcome drasticly. Their armor, on the whole, is worse too. Your average UNSC marine has several lays of ballistic protection and several gel lays for thermal protection, ME armor lacks that and pretty much comes with a single layer of thermal protection and 2 layers of ballistic. That’s it.

    “Next, there’s the space travel. The flood have to use the Mass Relays like everybody else, and there’s only so many Mass Relays in existence.”
    —-
    To an extent. Unlike humans, the flood don’t care about moving super slow from one planet to the next. Though, can you tell me why they couldn’t use the slipspace drive of the ship they arrived on?
    —-
    “Its quite possible that the closest Relay to Eden Prime could be destroyed in order to stamp out the infection, and to prevent it from spreading.”
    —–
    That implies they know of an infection, that implies someone is already infected and the battle is over. As soon as 1 Alliance grunt is infected, its over.
    —–
    “And its also possible that the Citadel races could each setup ‘guard’ fleets to decimate the flood when they finish travelling.”
    ——
    Oh, that just leaves, what, all of the Terminus systems open for infection? Yeah, the battle is still lost. The Flood would infect a bounty hunter, infect all of Omega, and then the Gravemind would have a loose fleet with which he could fly (and crash) into Citadel-controlled space and infect everyone else.

    All it takes for the flood to win in this scenario is a single Alliance/Citidel officer to get infected and the war is over.

  67. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 7:38 pm -      #67

    @itcheyness

    But it doesn’t get anyone very far, does it? Which is why everyone uses the Mass Relays, its what all the cool kids are doing.

  68. the_man_with The_Answers July 8, 2015 at 7:39 pm -      #68

    “Can’t the flood take over concepts? Maybe I am miss remembering. I recall people explaining how they can get kinda meta with their infection processes.”

    Maybe not “concepts” per-se, more along the lines of biological, technological, philosophical, and metaphysical/consciousness corruption. As in, it can forcibly alter your biological cells, hack/override your systems, influence/persuade you to your core philosophically, and infect the fabric of your consciousness (And in doing so transfer the biological aspect to fresh bodies that your consciousness may be placed into).

    “What’s the range of the Indulgence’s weaponry? HaloNation says its biggest guns have a range of 100Mm, which is frankly pathetic.”

    Lol at “100,000km range” being labeled as “pathetic.”

    “Eden Prime has a population of like 4 million. Which means either they’re all spread far apart and the Flood won’t be able to reach them in time, or they all live fairly close together and the Flood could very well kill them all before anyone can flee.”

    The Flood also begins to infect the entire ecosystem, not only the people within it.

    Also, with a population of 4 million odd people, there would certainly be some level of FTL-capable traffic if only for supplies.

    “Also, how would they be at handling travel through the Mass Relay assuming they did manage to commandeer a ship? Navigating Mass Relays is extremely dangerous if you can’t operate a ship effectively, since a ship would literally be torn apart without the shields made by the drive cores. If they can’t stowaway zombie-apocalypse style, then my money is on the Alliance blowing Eden Prime to hell with the Flood on it.”

    The Flood steals useful memories. Particularly in regards to target locations, ship repair, and FTL travel. The Covenant were terrified that the Flood were going to board and repair the T&R on the first Halo, only being in the very first few steps of the “feral” phase, facing heavy resistance the whole time.

    “It was DLC, but it’s canon as ME3 starts with you on trial for doing it.”

    That wasn’t really something the Alliance did. It was a plan created by scientists disconnected from Alliance communication who discovered the imminent invasion plans, later picked up by Shepard/A special forces squad (If you didn’t buy/do the DLC) again disjointed from the Alliance. The Systems Alliance was very clearly not happy with Shepard’s actions in that case, hence being on trial/watch for terrorism. Similar attempts were never tried by the Alliance during the Reaper War itself.

    “Zombies and zombie wannabes are never going to be a threat in reality like they are in video games. Especially not for a universe that has more advanced weapons than Halo.”

    Except said zombies will also be using said advanced weaponry. Eden Prime was not heavily militarized at all, perhaps a light group of Alliance Marines. That isn’t going to hold against the potential 4 million Flood forms coming from the civilian side of things, which have the potential to acquire civilian weaponry and vehicles as well. Furthermore, it is extremely difficult to play a ground game with the Flood seeing as they will almost always be running around with numbers in the millions while no planet besides those that are already heavily militarized will have anything more than a few dozen thousand at most, or so it would seem. Many colonies having seemingly less than a platoon of soldiers stationed with them.

    “Plus mass-accelerated slugs would easily tear through the Flood (oddly enough the Flood seem really weak against projectile weaponry)”

    The sheer design of Mass Effect weaponry, or the majority of it, would likely be extremely ineffective against the Flood. Tiny hyper-velocity projectiles designed to punch through medium cover/armor may have a decent amount of kinetic energy, but its wound channels and terminal ballistics are going to be shit against something as “spongy” as the Flood.

    “Key word, melee combat. There’s no reason for that to ever come about.”

    Why not? Eden Prime has an apparently tiny defensive force, leaving some 4 million targets of infection wide open. Sure, they may have fancy guns, but you better believe that things are going to get close and lethally personal when you are facing 1 to 10,000 odds optimistically. Then after that, the Flood will indeed have some military hardware along with whatever civilian weaponry they can get their hands on.

    “Because the Flood in Halo 3 were picking up all sorts of weapons to use against you.”

    Ummm….. they did. Hell, in Halo 2 the Flood were driving tanks and toting rocket launchers.

    “If Halo UNSC forces could contain and otherwise deal with the Flood incursion in Halo 3- the Mass Effect troops will have no problems with them.”

    Actually they couldn’t. They were utterly overwhelmed within minutes of crashing. Not to mention they were already fully mobilized and had potential thousands of troops across the area with heavy armor, and Elites supporting them in some cases. Chief barely got “Cortana’s” module thing before the Elites had to resort to orbital bombardment of a significant portion of the African continent only some half hour after the crash. SPARTAN Assault states that if that had not happened, Earth was projected to fall within a few hours. And that’s with millions of fully mobilized troops in defense mode.

    “You do realize that everything they “pilot” crashes, right? Like, every scene we ever see of them “piloting” involved crashing into the broadside of a planet? Like I said, just because they can put their foot on the gas doesn’t mean they can parallel park. It seems that every time they “learn” they only learn the gist of something.”

    When it comes to vehicles used for transport they only care about getting from point A to point B. But to anyone who has played Halo 2, Flood driving armed vehicles is no joke.

    “Holding a weapon and not firing it is not using the weapon. They can’t use the weapons they pick up in Halo 3.”

    The Flood have been able to hold AND use weapons since Halo:CE. My Proof? Literally any level with the Flood in any Halo game ever.

    “Halo troops were performing this perfectly well,”

    No they weren’t.

    “There’s no Gravemind mentioned, only basic Flood from the one ship. Those Flood are pretty stupid and do not make large-scale and secretive plans”

    False. Even Feral Flood stage ambushes, repair vehicles, and otherwise carry out “secretive plans.” In Halo:The Flood, they used an underground tunnel network to position themselves directly under the UNSC base of operations, then were stockpiling/using plasma weapons accumulated through engagements with the Covenant to cut their way through a thick grate in an attempt to ambush the entire base from below. They were also working on capturing and repairing the T&R.

    “Oh, don’t forget that Flood infection forms tend to fail against shielding, which happens to be pretty standard for Mass Effect forces.”

    Infection forms don’t move fast enough to trigger ME shielding. They aren’t “always on” like most Halo shields.

    “The problem with using the spores on Eden Prime is that it isn’t an artificial space like the High Charity-air isn’t recycled, there’s no artificial atmosphere keeping things in, and Eden Prime is too vast for it to be used effectively”

    Which totally stopped all those time the Flood took over entire planets’ ecosystems, right? Oh that’s right, it didn’t.

    “Don’t modern armies have better standard issue weaponry than the UNSC?”

    No. Not at all. Not as good as maybe 500 years in the future, but weapon engineers today would be drooling over how Halo weapons maintain considerable armor penetration at what ranges is generally the point at which modern equivalents’ ballistics go down the drain.

    On the other hand, due to larger rounds, UNSC weapons would theoretically perform better than how most Mass Effect ones apparently do.

    “I doubt the population of Eden Prime (mostly civilians) would be much of a threat to the Flood, but the Alliance soldiers would easily be able to send distress signals and an organization like Cerberus could go in and clean up.”

    Except Cerberus would:
    A: Not have the logistics to fight the Flood
    B: Almost 100% sure they would eventually lead to its accidental propagation down the road if they did miraculously contain it.

    ” ME3 is the place in a state of war with everyone being as uber-careful as they can.”

    Haha yeah right. There are entire sectors filled with refugees, crowds, panic, and so on. The Flood would spread like wildfire on an oil field

    “Should they succeed, the primary leadership of most races would be hurt. Not destroyed, but hurt. It’d be the equivalent of killing one of our country’s UN representatives. A problem, but it doesn’t completely stop the country.”

    You’d also have Flood leaving on previously docked ships en masse, with coordinates set for “everywhere” in some infection vector model where you can’t even predict the vectors via proximity as the Flood could FTL anywhere.

    ” Reapers would most definitely not care for the Flood, inorganic or bust; that includes germs. So unless the Flood were to be able to 100% do what it took combined forces of the entire ME universe to pull off; Reapers restart cycle at the end.”

    The Flood have the special advantage of essentially running the “Control” ending on a Reaper-by-Reaper basis. Suicide collisions would more than likely be a winning strategy against the Reapers.

    “Reapers would indoctrinate the flood and use them as an effective way of harvesting planets.”

    It took multiple indoctrination pylons to subdue a single Rachni-Queen, and the second they were shut down she was completely free of the effects. Which means the nearly infinitely larger “Hive-Mind” of the Flood is going to no-sell any and all indoctrination techniques.

    The Flood is what the Reapers wish they were. Instead of the whole “Yo Dawg I heard you don’t want to be killed by synthetics so every 50k years synthetics will kill you so you won’t be killed by synthetics” bullshit you’ve got a “biological unification” that wouldn’t repeat and just solve the whole synthetic rebellion thing anyways.

  69. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 7:51 pm -      #69

    @Sokogeki

    Lol no. Your telling me that standard Halo Marine armour is superior? Pfftttt. It takes time to build a Gravemind, sure they have the mass, doesn’t mean its just gonna go PLOP “Heeeeres Floody!”. The flood only took over High Charity so quickly because it was a closed environment and had air ventilation, helping the spores spread quicker.

    It would take much, much longer for it to spread. Otherwise the flood should have won when they crashed on Earth, going by your logic of FLOOD PWNS.

    And the Gravemind in Halo 2 and 3 had already been in existence on Delta Halo for a long ass time, the flood didn’t just spit it out when Delta Halo was found.

    Also, the moment things start going bad, a distress call will be sent, and it will include details on the assailants. Only reason they didn’t know much about the collectors was because of the very way the collectors work, subduing large populations in moments with their swarms.

    The Alliance blow up a solar system for giant space robots. For highly infectious, intelligent aliens, they’ll do the same.

  70. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 7:57 pm -      #70

    I guess its time to just call in the Tyranids, bug out, and call it even.

  71. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 8:08 pm -      #71

    @AreNamesNeeded
    “Lol no. Your telling me that standard Halo Marine armour is superior? Pfftttt.”

    Aw, the pfftttt argument, nice. I mean, it does nothing for you or against me, so, by all means.

    “It takes time to build a Gravemind, sure they have the mass, doesn’t mean its just gonna go PLOP “Heeeeres Floody!””

    Yeah, man, if only the Flood had time to build a Gravemind, not like they would just start doing that as soon as possible.. oh, wait, I am receiving new information… not new but old actually, they would indeed start building a Gravemind. Like, right away. It would take time, sure, but it would take less time for them to build the Gravemind than it would for the Alliance to receive a message and arrive.

    “The flood only took over High Charity so quickly because it was a closed environment and had air ventilation, helping the spores spread quicker.

    It would take much, much longer for it to spread. Otherwise the flood should have won when they crashed on Earth, going by your logic of FLOOD PWNS. ”

    Wasn’t part of my argument but, sure, I’ll help. Do you know how atmosphere.. works? It wouldn’t spread as fast as it did on High Charity, sure, but it would spread damned fast. Combine that with the fact that there would be other forms at work, and yeah, Eden is falling in days.

    “And the Gravemind in Halo 2 and 3 had already been in existence on Delta Halo for a long ass time, the flood didn’t just spit it out when Delta Halo was found. ”

    Yep, the Proto-Gravemind, though, that took an hour at most to create, ya know, that one made just to torture Keyes. Its reasonable, based on that, to assume it wouldn’t take much longer to build a full blown Gravemind.

    “Also, the moment things start going bad, a distress call will be sent, and it will include details on the assailants.”

    Oh, like they did with the Geth when Saren attacked, right? That was one city that got attacked and no beacon was sent out, they only got saved because Shepard and Co. happened to be close at hand.

    “The Alliance blow up a solar system for giant space robots. For highly infectious, intelligent aliens, they’ll do the same.”

    Hell, even assuming a beacon is sent out, how would they know the attacker is infectious or intelligent? They, like most everyone, could assume its a sort of “zombie” outbreak, not infectious to the living but very violent.

  72. AreNamesNeeded July 8, 2015 at 8:15 pm -      #72

    Okay, I’m gonna be that guy that roots for whoever seems to be winning. Go Team Flood!

  73. Nsl98 July 8, 2015 at 8:22 pm -      #73

    @ANN
    Is he the new guy that sits there wanking Halo?

    A.J wasn’t new…

  74. Hylias Hero July 8, 2015 at 8:48 pm -      #74

    Realistically what would happen is the Flood crash land on Eden Prime. They immediately start infecting civilians who for the most part can’t protect themselves. The Flood would use Covenant weaponry against the small Alliance garrison. Once the Alliance soldiers are infected the Flood now know how to use any weaponry, vehicles, etc. that the soldiers did. From there they would continue spreading until they infected the 4.2 million colonists. A Gravemind would be created within a day or two at most with the entire planet falling within that same time frame. Alongside all of this the Flood would start pumping Flood spores into the atmosphere, infecting everything on the planet.

    Assuming that there is no transportation off the the planet, when Cerberus shows up due to the colony going dark, their forces would suddenly be swarmed by 4.2 million Flood forms being commanded by a Gravemind that has the combined intelligence of all the people who had been infected. Cerberus’ ship would be taken and the Flood would start to spread. More and more colonies would go dark and a Keymind would be created. A Keymind is to Graveminds as Graveminds are to Flood Combat Forms. By the time the Council realized they were in trouble it would be far too late.

    Assuming that the Council shut down or camped the Relays the Keymind would most likely jury rig together a slipspace drive similar to how the Gravemind in Halo 3 modified High Charity to bypass the portal on Earth. By this point Pure Forms would also start being created which means the Flood are capable of reproduction without hosts.

    The Flood would also utilize the Logic Plague to turn automated defenses, VIs, and AIs against the ME universe and may or may not work on the Reapers. If it didn’t then think about this, the unified Citadel species barely managed to stand a chance against the Reapers because they were united. Now imagine if all of those species were stronger, faster, more resilient, and universally united and controlled by an entity that has the combined intelligence of every being it has ever absorbed? The Flood would destroy the Reapers. The Rachni almost destroyed the ME universe, the Flood make the Rachni look like a joke.

  75. Epicazeroth July 8, 2015 at 8:52 pm -      #75

    @Sokogeki: “For weapons, they straight up say that ME weapons = modern weapons”
    What? No they don’t. Literally the whole point of Mass Effect weaponry is that the ME field lets them fire at faster speeds with the same recoil.

    “a single layer of thermal protection and 2 layers of ballistic. That’s it.”
    Except for the kinetic barriers. And the self-repair the armor can perform. And the Biotic barriers, and Tech Armor, and Fortification.

    “can you tell me why they couldn’t use the slipspace drive of the ship they arrived on?”
    Because the ship is broken?

    “As soon as 1 Alliance grunt is infected, its over.”
    Right. Like how the UNSC and Convenant both instantly fell when they lost one soldier to the Flood.

    “Oh, that just leaves, what, all of the Terminus systems open for infection?”
    You mean the area of the galaxy filled with cold-blooded mercenary killers who would be even quicker to annihilate the Flood as soon as it entered a system?
    ===
    @tmwTA: “Lol at “100,000km range” being labeled as “pathetic.””
    Mass Effect ships can shoot and hit ships from the other side of a sun.

    “The Systems Alliance was very clearly not happy with Shepard’s actions in that case, hence being on trial/watch for terrorism.”
    If Shepard never completes Arrival, the Alliance 103rd Marines blows up the system. Shepard is on trial because the Alliance needs a scapegoat.

    “Tiny hyper-velocity projectiles designed to punch through medium cover/armor”
    The bullets “squash or shatter on impact”. BioWare is a step ahead of you here.

    “it would take less time for them to build the Gravemind than it would for the Alliance to receive a message and arrive.”
    It would take the Alliance like 30 minutes to arrive. Hell, they don’t even need to receive a message. They would notice the random ship that just literally appeared from nowhere.

    “Oh, like they did with the Geth when Saren attacked, right?”
    Exactly like that. Do you think the Normandy received a transmission from nobody?

  76. Limbo Lowk July 8, 2015 at 9:04 pm -      #76

    “For weapons, they straight up say that ME weapons = modern weapons when they tell us that recoil is contingent on the force of the bullet.”

    It is then immediately stated that it is mitigated by mass effect fields.
    They they are good enough that the rifles used to penetrate shielded+armored vehicles, which would previously breaking a guys arm when firing, is now usable by anyone without sacrificing the firepower.
    They are also upgrades for any class of weapon that strengthen the m.e. generator to attain higher velocities which still don’t negatively effect the recoil.
    I believe what they are stating is that while they can achieve a greater output much more then their modern equivalent(Turning a standard assult rifle into a 50 cal), you just won’t be seeing any nuke velocity projectiles.
    ===
    “You sure you ain’t talking about the Ultramarines mate?”

    Justicars are like the ME version of Jedi.
    ===
    “Their armor, on the whole, is worse too. Your average UNSC marine has several lays of ballistic protection and several gel lays for thermal protection, ME armor lacks that and pretty much comes with a single layer of thermal protection and 2 layers of ballistic.”

    Can I get a quote because all I have is the wiki to go off of and it is saying several layers, which include, a(as in one) layer for ballistics and another for heat.

    On ME front there armor is are already made of heat resistant materials.The hardsuit normally includes thick armor not just for the torso or boots but for the entire body. This sits over top of the layer of ballistic cloth and kinetic padding. Besides that shields are counted as a layer of defense for the suit.
    So shield, heat resistant body armor, ballistic cloth, kinetic padding. Thats 4 layers of defense. All of which are either self repairable or easily repairable in the field.
    I think the ODST is a better comparison to ME’s hardsuits.

  77. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 9:06 pm -      #77

    @Epicazeroth
    “What? No they don’t. Literally the whole point of Mass Effect weaponry is that the ME field lets them fire at faster speeds with the same recoil.”

    It does that, yeah, but they straight up explain, and I quote from the Codex, “mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy. This is mitigated somewhat by the mass effect fields that rounds are suspended within” meaning, a sniper in ME with a comparable recoil to a modern sniper hits only slightly stronger than that modern sniper.

    “Except for the kinetic barriers. And the self-repair the armor can perform. And the Biotic barriers, and Tech Armor, and Fortification.”

    I was talking about armor, not shielding and was taking in generalities, biotics are low in the Alliance, as is tech armor and Fortification.

    “Because the ship is broken?”

    Aw, right… and they can’t repair is because…?

    “Right. Like how the UNSC and Convenant both instantly fell when they lost one soldier to the Flood.

    Both the UNSC and the Covenant had trump cards, the Arbiter (whom no grunts know about) and the Master Chief (whom no grunt knew about or could realistically stop.) The ME? Yeah, not so much.

    “You mean the area of the galaxy filled with cold-blooded mercenary killers who would be even quicker to annihilate the Flood as soon as it entered a system?”

    Lol, because suddenly they can detect a cloud of spores moving through space? Or, hell, we’ll evens ay the Flood of a ship. Not only can the Flood fight back in this situation, they will do so with no regard for their own vessel, infect every lifeform on board, and send out a distress signel (assuming at least one “cold-blooded merc” knew how to.) Yeah, the Terminus is more fucked than Citadel Space.

  78. Ninja Lowk July 8, 2015 at 9:12 pm -      #78

    Well I guess it’s that time to play the comment moderation waiting game.
    EDIT: And so it begins.

  79. Ninja Lowk July 8, 2015 at 9:15 pm -      #79

    “a sniper in ME with a comparable recoil to a modern sniper hits only slightly stronger than that modern sniper.”

    The standard sniper rifle in ME can split a person in half.
    EDIT: but you can see me currently becasue moderation system is biased against ninja.

  80. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 9:21 pm -      #80

    @Epicazeroth
    Just noticed I missed one.

    “Exactly like that. Do you think the Normandy received a transmission from nobody?”
    The Normany only got the transmission because they were so close. Evidence of this is clear by the fact that not a single other vessel, or character, ever so much as mentions receiving the beacon.

  81. Ninja Lowk July 8, 2015 at 9:22 pm -      #81

    Can anyone see these post?
    I’ve wondered how this works, do my post get retroactively set back in the conversation where they were meant or are they going to show up as the latest comments after thier initial posting time?

  82. erickyboo July 8, 2015 at 9:26 pm -      #82

    Oh my… I saw this thread, I started doing an evil maniacal laughter, because the flood…

    The Indulgence of Conviction also carries pure form flood by the way.

  83. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 9:26 pm -      #83

    …Is this what the older days of BankGambling were like? Random Halo people show up and get many things wrong and state Halo forces are superior? Is this what led to the fabled MC vs Superman debate?

    @Lowk
    Pretty sure it’s the comment you posted before you changed your name, followed by all of the ones you post under the new name for a bit. I can see it I just can’t do anything about it. If you’d like we could have a little ghost chat before moderation kicks through.
    They should go back to where you posted them.

  84. Ninja Lowk July 8, 2015 at 9:34 pm -      #84

    @Friendly
    So does it shows up under the notify system like normal or are you using the dashboard?

  85. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 9:42 pm -      #85

    @FriendlySociopath
    “Random Halo people show up and get many things wrong and state Halo forces are superior?”

    Random Halo people on a thread that specifically calls for Halo. What did I get wrong, by the way?

  86. Friendlysociopath July 8, 2015 at 10:02 pm -      #86

    What did I get wrong, by the way?

    Let’s see:
    Insisting the Flood will be able to take the entire planet of Eden Prime without a distress call of any sort going off.
    Insisting said distress call will not mention a plague that is taking over people.
    Comparing extremely slow zombie-style attack to machine-blitz and saying “It’ll work better.”
    Insisting the Flood would be able to create a Protomind with no trouble upon landing, let alone a Gravemind.
    Insisting the Flood will be able to not only get the jump on the colony, but completely take it over without a problem despite being in the stupid stage and having no reason to create a Protomind as there’s no task that requires it.
    Insisting ME weaponry will be somehow less effective against the Flood when it is superior to Halo weaponry in every way you could ask for.
    Insisting stupid Flood are going to be able to fix a ship or make any sort of complex plan without a Protomind or Gravemind.
    Implying that after the events of ME1 there was zero defenses enacted to prevent that from happening again.
    Insisting either of those minds can be made quickly without any sort of hard time table for how long it takes.
    Insisting normal Halo armor is superior to normal ME armor without mentioning anything about said armor beyond… what did you mention exactly? Layers of ballistic gel?
    Insisting that Arbiter and MC were so powerful and unexpected nobody could stop them; and that the ME universe has no such trump cards despite being full of them.
    Insisting the Flood are going to get the perfect drop on the colonists despite crash-landing on the planet.

    Think that was all of them.

  87. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 10:24 pm -      #87

    @FriendlySociopath
    Alright, let’s look at these.
    “Insisting the Flood will be able to take the entire planet of Eden Prime without a distress call of any sort going off.”
    Because its happened before. Again, if you want to make the argument that Eden Prime sent out a distress call, how come NO ONE even brings it up? There is no passing mention of anyone else ever receiving the message, ever. The Alliance doesn’t even say ‘yeah, a message was sent and you were already there so we just left it you you.’ Nothing happens. So did the message just… what? At least 1 city is going to fall before anyone gets the distress beacon, and then guess what? The Flood will know how to stop it at that point.

    “Comparing extremely slow zombie-style attack to machine-blitz and saying “It’ll work better!””
    I… didn’t do this. But nice try.

    “Insisting the Flood would be able to create a Protomind with no trouble upon landing, let along a Gravemind.”
    They would. Need me to explain why a third time? Because, I can if you insist, or you can read my other replies over again.

    “Insisting the Flood will be able to not only get the jump on the colony, but completely take it over without a problem despite being in the stupid stage and having no reason to create a Protomind as there’s no task that requires it.”
    They would be able to. They don’t need a reason to create a Proto-Gravemind, they just do it.

    “Insisting ME weaponry will be somehow less effective against the Flood when it is superior to Halo weaponry in every way you could ask for.”
    Except its not, again. Already explained this too.

    “Insisting stupid Flood are going to be able to fix a ship or make any sort of complex plan without a Protomind or Gravemind.”
    You misunderstood. I never claimed Feral Flood would be able to fix the ship, or even make a plan, I did mention this… after a Proto/Gravemind was created. Which, again, is just something the Feral Flood do.

    “Implying that after the events of ME1 there was zero defenses enacted to prevent that from happening again.”
    There’s clear evidence to the contrary… again. In ME3, Eden is attacked and is taken under complete control by Cerberus. Its implied they have an inside man given that they have information on exactly what Cerberus is doing… so, again, no evidence of better defense, no evidence of sending more beacons for assistance, none of that.

    “Insisting either of those minds can be made quickly without any sort of hard time table for how long it takes.”
    The days that it would take to control the planet entirely are the days it would take to create the Gravemind at most. Again, a Proto-mind can be made in hours, based off the the Proto-mind Keyes was becoming apart of was created specifically to torture him, meaning the Flood had to have known about him and captured him.

    “Insisting normal Halo armor is superior to normal ME armor without mentioning anything about said armor beyond… what did you mention exactly? Layers of ballistic gel?”
    Yes. I compared the armor to the armor. If you take in other factors (shields, biotic barriers, what have you), Mass Effect armor systems are better. But the actual armor? The actual material that the solder wears? Yeah, the UNSC’s 5-layered armor is much better than Mass Effect’s 3-layered armor.

    “Insisting that Arbiter and MC were so powerful and unexpected nobody could stop them; and that the ME universe has no such trump cards despite being full of them.”
    They were. Play the games, man. Even people who knew Thel didn’t know he was the Arbiter, he was an X-factor the Flood couldn’t have known about. Same goes for the Master Chief as all Spartan-Iis are kept top secret. Who are some trump cards In the ME-verse with the same amount of anonymity as either of these two? Because that is the only way to get out of the all-seeing-eye that is the Gravemind.

  88. Ciridae Hunter July 8, 2015 at 10:50 pm -      #88

    Actually, the Council basically said “you were where we told you not to go-we warned you-so no shit you got attacked and no, dipshit, we won’t do a damn thing about it”; the Council famously stays out of the Terminus save for a semi-regular Spectre presence that mainly act as watchmen.

  89. Super Combine July 8, 2015 at 10:52 pm -      #89

    “the UNSC’s 5-layered armor is much better”

    Could you explain this one, I don’t remember a UNSC Marine’s armor having 5 layers.

    “Even people who knew Thel didn’t know he was the Arbiter, he was an X-factor the Flood couldn’t have known about. Same goes for the Master Chief as all Spartan-Iis are kept top secret. Who are some trump cards In the ME-verse with the same amount of anonymity as either of these two? Because that is the only way to get out of the all-seeing-eye that is the Gravemind.”

    If you’re implying the trump card that stopped the Flood in Halo 3 was these two character’s identities being a secret as opposed to the massive plot device (aka Halo ring), then please just stop right there, because that’s fucking silly.

  90. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 11:00 pm -      #90

    @Super Combine
    “Could you explain this one, I don’t remember a UNSC Marine’s armor having 5 layers.”
    The armor consists of several layers, some of which include a ballistic shock-absorbing gel layer and a heat reduction gel layer to help reduce velocity and felt shock from ballistics, shrapnel, and explosives as well as reducing the burn caused by plasma once it reaches flesh. So, yeah, I just made it 5 layers to give a solid number since “several” isn’t.

    “If you’re implying the trump card that stopped the Flood in Halo 3 was these two character’s identities being a secret as opposed to the massive plot device (aka Halo ring), then please just stop right there, because that’s fucking silly.”
    No at all. But, if their identity had been known that would have given the Gravemind a much better idea of what he was going against as opposed to going against two unknowns.

  91. Ninja Lowk July 8, 2015 at 11:04 pm -      #91

    ” Yeah, the UNSC’s 5-layered armor is much better than Mass Effect’s 3-layered armor.”

    I would like to see the quote of this 5-layered armor.
    Becasue all I could find is
    “ballistic recoil-absorbing gel layer and a heat reduction gel layer”
    Which is two layers.

    ME’s armor plating has a dual purpose of resisting heat as well as adding a layer of defense. Besides that rest of the suit also helps protects against extremes of temperature as well as extremes of the environment.
    So essentially they have packed two defenses in two different layers of the suit as well as doubling as environmental suits for hazardous locations. They don’t need a layer specifically for heat resistance because it is already apart of the existing material’s qualities.
    ===
    “Who are some trump cards In the ME-verse with the same amoujnt of anonymoty as either of these two? Because that is the only way to get out of the all-seeing-eye that is the Gravemind.”

    Thane, Legion, spectres not named Shepard, Kasumi, the Shadow Broker or Liara.

  92. Epicazeroth July 8, 2015 at 11:12 pm -      #92

    @Sokogeki: “meaning, a sniper in ME with a comparable recoil to a modern sniper hits only slightly stronger than that modern sniper.”
    No. It means that it produces the same amount of recoil force, but the effect of that force is lessened. The ME field makes the gun heavier, so the effect of X amount of force is not as much.

    “The ME? Yeah, not so much.”
    What? Do you know anything about Mass Effect? They have fuck tons of people no random soldier can stop. Spectres, STG, Commandos, Blackwatch, Cabal, N7, or any Krogan. On an individual level, we have most of Shepard’s crew.

    “Lol, because suddenly they can detect a cloud of spores moving through space?”
    Can the Flood activate Relays without a ship? Though not.

    “The Normany only got the transmission because they were so close.”
    But they weren’t. They were in a totally different cluster.

    “Except its not, again. Already explained this too.”
    But the rest of everybody else disagrees with you.

    “Who are some trump cards In the ME-verse with the same amount of anonymity as either of these two?”
    The Salarian STG; their entire job is to kill you without you knowing you were even fighting someone. Or, Hell, random Asari Commandos or Krogan Battlemasters.

    “But, if their identity had been known that would have given the Gravemind a much better idea of what he was going against as opposed to going against two unknowns.”
    Hold on. Exactly how is the Gravemind going to know who he’s fighting in the ME-verse?

  93. Super Combine July 8, 2015 at 11:24 pm -      #93

    “So, yeah, I just made it 5 layers to give a solid number since “several” isn’t.”

    Do you have sources for these? The descriptions sound familiar but I don’t think they were describing the Marine’s BDU.

    “But, if their identity had been known that would have given the Gravemind a much better idea of what he was going against as opposed to going against two unknowns.”

    Not really. One’s a very skilled Elite with plot shielding and the other’s a very skilled superhuman with plot shielding. Their secret identities had nothing to do with them stopping the Flood. Example, when boarding High Charity in Halo 3, each room should have been filled to the ceiling with Flood considering it had been home to millions and they were pumping out pure forms. Yet it wasn’t, for no other reason then because the main character had to get through it and win.

  94. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 11:24 pm -      #94

    @Epicazeroth
    “No. It means that it produces the same amount of recoil force, but the effect of that force is lessened. The ME field makes the gun heavier, so the effect of X amount of force is not as much.”
    It says the force of the recoil = the force that the weapon is hitting with, mitigated by the mass effect field. The first applies to modern day weapons as well, meaning ME weapons hit only slightly harder than modern weapons.

    “Can the Flood activate Relays without a ship? Though not.”
    They don’t need to. Granted, it would take hundreds of years to get anywhere, they can still do it.

    “But they weren’t. They were in a totally different cluster.”
    No, they weren’t. By the time we get to the aprt where this whole thing happens, the Normandy already made the jump back into normal speeds, Joker gets mad at Nihilus for not giving him a pat on the back, remember? They’re already in-system.

    “But the rest of everybody else disagrees with you.”
    What does that matter? Argumentum ad populum? Please.

    “The Salarian STG; there entire job is to kill you without you knowing you were even fighting someone. Or, Hell, random Asari Commandos or Krogan Battlemasters.”
    Oh, you’re right! None of those people would be known by anyone outside of their group, right? Oh, wait… no. All of those three are known galaxy wide, a Flood infects anyone who knows anything about them and the Flood will know about it and be able to counter it.

  95. erickyboo July 8, 2015 at 11:24 pm -      #95

    I’m more watching this discussion unfold than participating right now but… some of you guys are severely underestimating the flood.
    And if someone cites halo wars as UNSC beating the flood, the spirit of fire has a flood infection problem.

  96. Sokogeki July 8, 2015 at 11:29 pm -      #96

    @Super Combine
    “Do you have sources for these? The descriptions sound familiar but I don’t think they were describing the Marine’s BDU.”
    Its not the BDU, its the M52B Body Armor that replaced the BDU in 2531. For sources you can check [X] or the Halo Encyclopedia, if you have it.

    “How?”
    Well, first, let’s avoid meta arguments, yeah? Plot shielding is stupid to consider when looking at these things from a vs-battle perspective. Yeah, if the Gravemind had known that the Master Chief is a supersoldier, it would have put many, many more Flood forms in his path.

  97. Super Combine July 8, 2015 at 11:51 pm -      #97

    @Sokogeki
    “For sources you can check [X] or the Halo Encyclopedia, if you have it.

    I see, thanks.

    “Yeah, if the Gravemind had known that the Master Chief is a supersoldier”

    Except he already knew both Chief and the Arbiter were very special, even in Halo 2. That’s why he teleported them separately to deal with armies of opposition and believed they’d still come out successful. There was absolutely no reason for the Gravemind to underestimate them, he knew what they were capable of and there was a lot at stake for him. But he underestimated them anyway, so he must be pretty retarded.

    So to reiterate the point, Gravemind not knowing their secret identities had nothing to do with his loss at the end of Halo 3.

  98. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 12:02 am -      #98

    @Super Combine
    “I see, thanks.”
    No problem.

    “Except he already knew both Chief and the Arbiter were very special, even in Halo 2. That’s why he teleported them separately to deal with armies of opposition and believed they’d still come out successful.”
    At that point two things happened; first, the Gravemind became aware of them by watching them kill Flood and, also at this point, it was using them to its own ends.

  99. Ninja Lowk July 9, 2015 at 12:32 am -      #99

    Hey look no more moderation.
    ===
    “Oh, you’re right! None of those people would be known by anyone outside of their group, right? Oh, wait… no. All of those three are known galaxy wide”

    Being known is not the same as people knowing what you are doing or how they operate. The UNSC soldiers seemed to know Spartans were a thing.
    ===
    “Its not the BDU, its the M52B Body Armor that replaced the BDU in 2531. For sources you can check [X] or the Halo Encyclopedia, if you have it.”

    Not seeing 5. “Several” is more then 2; so it could be 3 or 4 as well.

    Still not seeing how that is better. The combat hardsuits has pretty much the same functionality but covers the entire body instead of armoring mostly the chest.
    Plus they don’t need a heat reduction layer because two of the existing layers already takes care of. You take that out of the UNSC armor and you’ll have 2 to 4 layers of protection like Mass Effect’s most basic of combat suits. So either they have one less or one more extra layer of ballistic cloth.

  100. Sokogeki July 9, 2015 at 12:47 am -      #100

    @Ninja Lowk
    “Being known is not the same as people knowing what you are doing or how they operate. The UNSC soldiers seemed to know Spartans were a thing.”
    But it allows the Gravemind to know “Okay, there’s this group of aliens out here who will try some infiltration tactics, got it.” “Okay, there’s this group of aliens who are trained with such-and-such ability.” that wasn’t a thing with Spartans, as far as other soldiers knew, Spartans were just a spec-ops team, not super soldiers.
    .–
    “Not seeing 5. “Several” is more then 2; so it could be 3 or 4 as well.”
    Yeah, and it can be up to 7. 5 is a low medium.

    “Still not seeing how that is better. The combat hardsuits has pretty much the same functionality but covers the entire body instead of armoring mostly the chest.”
    Because it offers more protection, that by itself makes it better than the ME armor. Under what definition of “better” are you using such that something which does X to a lesser extent than something else is better?

    “Plus they don’t need a heat reduction layer because two of the existing layers already takes care of.”
    Ablative plating doesn’t actually reduce heat, or redirect it anywhere safe. But, yeah, they have 2 layers of protection all together.

    “You take that out of the UNSC armor and you’ll have 2 to 4 layers of protection like Mass Effect’s most basic of combat suits. So either they have one less or one more extra layer of ballistic cloth.”
    Lol, yes, if you remove a function of one armor it becomes the same as another armor … but that first armor is in no way shape or form better than the second. What? I’m not the only one who sees that, right?

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