Lexell Kotov’s Explorator Fleet Vs Coruscant

Lexell Kotov's Explorator Fleet Vs Coruscant

Suggested by Rookie

Lexell Kotov’s Explorator Fleet (Warhammer 40 000) Vs Coruscant (Star Wars)

Magos Lexell Kotov will lead his fleet against Coruscant (under the rule of the Galactic Empire, EU feats and info allowed) while Darth Vader‘s personal fleet of Star Destroyers (in it’s prime), famous Death Squadron will try to defend the planet. All planet defence forces are also active and they also received reinforcements, 3000 Phase I dark troopers, 1000 Phase II dark troopers and 200 Phase III dark trooper arrived to help in ground defence. Emperor Palpatine is also present on the planet.

Planet destruction is not allowed, to win Lexell Kotov’s forces must capture Imperial Palace and hold it for at least three days. Almost any amount of collateral damage to the planet allowed, but Imperial Palace must be captured mostly intact.

Coruscant will get no reinforcement from other planets and systems untill the end of this fight. If they can hold out for 10 days, this is counts as win for their side.

Who will win?

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390 Comments on "Lexell Kotov’s Explorator Fleet Vs Coruscant"

  1. Rookie May 24, 2015 at 6:13 am -      #1

    Team 1 forces:

    “The fleet turned towards the unknown, on a journey whose ending no one could predict. Alongside the Renard, the Black Templars ship Adytum knifed through space like a blade thrust to the heart.”

    “The Retribution-class vessel Cardinal Boras had been constructed in the shipyards of Rayvenscrag IV nearly five thousand years ago and was no stranger to such voyages of exploration. As part of a fleet led by Rogue Trader Ventunius, it had ventured deep into the northern rim of the galaxy and had been one of only five vessels to return. Its guns had ended the Regime of Iron at the battle of Korsk, and its proud history included battle honours earned in over eighteen different sector fleets. It had fought as part of Battlefleet Gothic against the fleets of the Arch-Enemy, and with this latest secondment, it would once again venture beyond the light of the Astronomican.

    Moonchild and Wrathchild, two Gothic-class cruisers that had been little more than blazing wrecks when the Mechanicus had salvaged them off the shoulder of Orion, flanked the Cardinal Boras like devoted followers. Rebuilt and refitted to better serve the Mechanicus, their hulls had been consecrated at the Terminus Nox of Phobos and Deimos, when the regenerative aspects of the Omnissiah were at their apogee. Stalwarts of the Adeptus Mechanicus fighting fleets, both vessels had been virtually conjoined since their rebirth and deployments to separate battlefleets had seen them suffer inexplicable mechanical breakdowns and system-wide failures until they had been reassigned to work together.

    To repay a centuries-old Debita Fabricata to Archmagos Kotov, the forge world Voss Prime had despatched three heavily armed escort cruisers from Battlefeleet Armageddon to stand for Mars. Two Endurance-class vessels, Honour Blade and Mortis Voss sailed in arrowhead formation with Blade of Voss, an Endeavour-class ship killer. All three vessels bore honour markings bestowed by Battlefleet Armageddon, and Mortis Voss, whose mater-captain had delivered the deathblow to the greenskin flagship Choppa, bore the personal heraldry of Princeps Zarha, the fallen Crone of Invigilata.

    Squadrons of modified frigates, destroyers and a host of local system vessels flew as an honour guard to the Explorator Fleet, though they would turn back at the system’s edge. With enough resources to sustain a fleet expedition beyond the stars for many years and enough firepower to fend off all but the most powerful enemies, the Kotov Fleet was as well prepared as it was possible to be.”

    And most importantly is the continent sized Speranza-class ship:

    “Roboute had heard of the vessels known as Ark Mechanicus, but had dismissed tales of their continent-sized cityscapes and planetoid bulk as exaggerations, embellished legends or outright lies.

    Now he knew better.”

    “The Speranza was all infrastructure and industry, a hive’s worth of manufactories, refineries, crackling power plants and kilometre upon kilometre of laboratories, testing ranges, chemical vats and gene-bays arranged in as efficient a way as the ancient plans for its construction had allowed. Its engines were larger than most starships’ full mass, its individual void generators and Geller arrays large enough to shroud a frigate by themselves.”

    “So colossal was the Speranza’s mass and density that it created a distorted gravity field equivalent to that of an unstable moon.”

    Speranza forces are 1 million cadian troopers, legio of titans (with most newest 2 kilometers tall warlord titan), a lot of skitarii warriors. Speranza have huge training complex inside of it:

    “The vast training deck echoed with barks of las-fire and detonations, shouted orders and the roaring of tank engines. Spanning almost the entire width of the Speranza, this area of the ship was entirely given over to combat drills, training facilities and exercise grounds. Entire armies could train here, utilising the time between origin and destination to turn newly-raised regiments into battle-ready formations by the time a journey was over.

    Any number of battlescapes could be mocked up. Entire cities could be raised in prefabricated permacrete, deserts sculpted by dozer rigs or vast forests embedded in the ground. The training deck was Dahan’s fiefdom aboard the Speranza, and he prided himself that there were no battle-scapes he could not create with his logistical resources, no testing ground that would not offer a host of challenges to a training force.”

    Speranza guns:

    “Elements of the technology that had gone into their construction would have been familiar to some of the more esoteric branches of black hole research and relativistic temporal arcana, but their assembled complexity would have baffled even the Fabricator General on Mars. Pulsing streams of purple-hued anti-matter and graviton pumps combined in unknowable ways in the heart of a reactor that drew its power from the dark matter that lurked in the spaces between the stars. It was a gun designed to crack open the stately leviathans of ancient void war, a starship killer that delivered the ultimate coup de grace.

    Without any command authority from the bridge of the Speranza, the weapon unleashed a silent pulse that covered the distance to the Starblade at the speed of light.

    But even that wasn’t fast enough to catch a ship as nimble as one built by the bonesingers of Biel-Tan and guided by the prescient sight of a farseer. The pulse of dark energy coalesced a hundred kilometres off the vessel’s stern and a miniature black hole exploded into life, dragging in everything within its reach with howling force. Stellar matter, light and gravity were crushed as they were drawn in and destroyed, and even the Starblade’s speed and manoeuvrability weren’t enough to save it completely as the secondary effect of the weapon’s deadly energies brushed over its solar sail. Chrono-weaponry shifted its target a nanosecond into the past, by which time the subatomic reactions within every molecule had shifted microscopically and forced identical neutrons into the same quantum space.”

  2. GrandMaster May 24, 2015 at 8:57 am -      #2

    Supposedly Coruscant had a planetarybshield capable of taking a hit from the Death Star, so short of suicidally ramming the Ark Mechanicus into the planet, I’m not seeing them get through the Coruscanti defenses:

  3. Neon Lord May 24, 2015 at 9:36 am -      #3

    This was the Priests/Lords/Gods of Mars Trilogy right? I might be able to pull some more feats out for that later.

    “Supposedly Coruscant had a planetarybshield capable of taking a hit from the Death Star, so short of suicidally ramming the Ark Mechanicus into the planet, I’m not seeing them get through the Coruscanti defenses:”

    Like that ever stopped the Battle of Coruscant from happening at the end of the Clone Wars. Imperium has better ground troops in general than Star Wars, and are likely to win a ground war at least.

  4. Rookie May 24, 2015 at 9:48 am -      #4

    @Neon Lord

    “This was the Priests/Lords/Gods of Mars Trilogy right?”

    Yes.

  5. Sauroposeidon May 24, 2015 at 10:06 am -      #5

    Hasn’t IoM vs GE style matches become a dead horse yet?

    Here lemme sum it up for you.

    Both have similar tech.

    But, one has much better FTL, much greater resources, and far more ships. They tend to produce a lot more of the smaller sort. Partially because attacker/bomber class vehicles are actually packing appropriate levels of fire power in their universe. Most Super Caps go down to star fighters in SW. However, when they want to, they do make large numbers of super weapons and super cap ships. Usually, their Super Cap ships, especially the second generation ones, after the start of the GE, are better than the IoM equivalent. Just fewer in number.

    On the ground the GE has a much wider variety of vehicles, with a strong infantry game that generally beats out the IoM. They lack in the armored division compared to the rarer but more powerful stuff the IoM fields. This appears to be due to the fact that, again, their starfighters are appropriately powerful for their setting (compared to 40k where apparently attacker/bombers don’t do jack against cap ships according to everyone). So their reasons for this are similar to ours, and why the Germans learned that giant slow tanks are a bad idea when things like bombers exist. It doesn’t matter how bad ass your giant mechanized land fleet is if a fly over from bombers that cost only as much as one of the wheels or knee joints can drop bombs that rip you to smithereens because those bombs are meant for ripping in to cap ships.

    Objectively viewing the two, despite the similarities in tech level, it’s been gone over a hundred times, the GE has a better war machine, better logistics, better variety, and brings more punch when they absolutely have to despite their preference for quantity over quality the majority of the time. They don’t have as large of a force that can bring the big punch as the IoM, but the punch is always substantially bigger when they do. Allowing them to critically strike where they need to when they need to any time their numbers advantage fails them.

    The entire fight is dictated by them, where they want to engage, how they want to engage, and what is being engaged.

    Palpatine actually kept two death stars at coruscant if I recall.. what is stopping those from just blasting the biggest, most obvious threats? Although they either don’t appear to be finished, or are only armed with a super laser and are smaller, less defensively equipped models that are assailable by fleets.. if they have shields being projected at them from Coruscant they could be the real issue in this fight.

    How is anything supposed to get past that army of Dark Trooper Phase III’s? Where ever a couple of those are, they win.

    “Like that ever stopped the Battle of Coruscant from happening at the end of the Clone Wars. Imperium has better ground troops in general than Star Wars, and are likely to win a ground war at least.”

    Why would Palpatine have already ordered the construction of the planetary shield during the clone wars if he was puppeting the war along and wanted the invasion of coruscant to happen? That seems like faulty logic.

  6. itcheyness May 24, 2015 at 11:40 am -      #6

    “Why would Palpatine have already ordered the construction of the planetary shield during the clone wars if he was puppeting the war along and wanted the invasion of coruscant to happen? That seems like faulty logic.”

    He actually did though didn’t he? The planetary shield came on once the fleet had Palpatine to prevent the fleet’s escape from the reinforcements that just arrived.

    I’m not sure why they didn’t turn it on before the fleet hit Coruscant though.

  7. Aelfinn May 24, 2015 at 12:22 pm -      #7

    “brings more punch when they absolutely have to despite their preference for quantity over quality the majority of the time. They don’t have as large of a force that can bring the big punch as the IoM, but the punch is always substantially bigger when they do.”

    This is just straight-up incorrect, if I’m being honest. IoM torpedoes should easily be in the Teratons, IIRC, and their Nova Cannons are in the Petatons. That FAR surpasses anything the GE ever brings to the table, and you need the most far-out calcs from one particular book to even have a hope of getting close to those instances.

    To say “the Empire has star-fighters that can hurt their capital ships” is more of a detriment to the capital ship than it is a positive attribute for the starfighter. The TIE fighter is ridiculously weak, and every one of its showings only confirms that.

    Check around 2:10
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy9waYcrE8k

    And of course, from the new trailer at 1:15 and around 1:25:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCc2v7izk8w
    =
    The TIE fighter really won’t be punching in a high enough weight class to really matter.

  8. Tacotown99 May 24, 2015 at 2:09 pm -      #8

    dont forget the huge manufactering abillitys of an ark mechanics. They pretty much repaired the entir fleet in a few days.

  9. itcheyness May 24, 2015 at 2:09 pm -      #9

    IoM fighters can hurt 40K capital ships too, and they’re not that heavily armed either. Also, TIE fighters aren’t going to be the mainline fighter craft used here by the GE, the TIE Interceptor supplanted it after the Battle of Yavin. It’s faster, and more heavily armed.

    According to The Essential Guide to Warfare, Death Squadron consisted of 1 Executor class SSD, 2 battlecruisers of an indeterminate class, 3 Tector-class star destroyers, and 33 Imperial Star destroyers at its height.

    Does anyone know what the standard defense forces are for Coruscant? I know the SSD Lusankya will be there, but I don’t know what the other ships would be.

  10. Rookie May 24, 2015 at 2:12 pm -      #10

    @itcheyness

    “Does anyone know what the standard defense forces are for Coruscant? I know the SSD Lusankya will be there, but I don’t know what the other ships would be.”

    That’s pretty much it. They have six defence stations starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Golan_space_defense_platform, good land defence and land anti-orbital defence, but aside from Lusankya there were none other fleets in the system AFAIK.

  11. Aelfinn May 24, 2015 at 3:14 pm -      #11

    “IoM fighters can hurt 40K capital ships too, and they’re not that heavily armed either. Also, TIE fighters aren’t going to be the mainline fighter craft used here by the GE, the TIE Interceptor supplanted it after the Battle of Yavin. It’s faster, and more heavily armed.”

    I don’t particularly WANT to scale SW capital ships off of their fighter capabilities, considering how infrequently the fighters actually matter in the movies, but the ability to matter in a 40K space fight generally puts 40K fighters above their SW counterparts. Shields, armor, and weapons all heavily favor IoM, and even if the Interceptors are “more heavily armed”, that doesn’t tell us much. IoM loses in a war to the GE, but this kind of fleet-to-fleet battle is exactly where the IoM has the advantages.
    =
    “Speranza forces are 1 million cadian troopers, legio of titans (with most newest 2 kilometers tall warlord titan), a lot of skitarii warriors.”

    Do you have a direct quote on this, Rookie? I don’t think Coruscant can stand up to a million troops and legions of titans.

  12. Jolttra May 24, 2015 at 3:36 pm -      #12

    This is during the Empires Prime. So Coruscant will have a total of 5 different defense groups.

    There are the Sextor Ranger and Coruscant Sector Security. Both act like police forces and contribute a good amound of well trained and dedicated troops as well as a modest supply of light vehicles, starfighters and patrol craft. There’s the Coruscant Planetary Defense Fleet consisting of numerous Golan III Satellites, a small fleets of ships including at least 7 Victory class Star Destroyers, thosands of fighters housed in the satellites, ship yards and ground bases and low level Skyhooks and other such platforms armed with light weaponry. There is a Sector Group consisting of 2,400 ships, 24 being Imperial Classes, patroling the area and ready to come in to fortify the defense. Last we have the Lusankya, a Super Star Destroyer posted there for years. There will also be a heavy Imperial army presence for the ground and militia groups ready for action.

    In addition to this we have Vader’s personal fleet, who’s exact numers fluctuate but always contains one Executor class and PalpatPalpatine’s royal guard who’s skills rival Mandalorians and allow them to kill Jedi. They also make incredible pilots. There are also a nunber of criminal groups who have bases on Coruscant, most notable Black Sun, and faced with an invation they will likely take up arms with the Imperials.

    On a side mote, Coruscant foes have a shield generator, it just didn’t have one during the Clone Wars. This was partly due to the polocy of tbe time trying to promote peace and openness and partly do to Palpatine’s plot to kill a ton of senators to be replaced with puppets and make the galaxy feel unsafe so he can offer protection and take over.

  13. Jake_Uzumaki May 24, 2015 at 4:05 pm -      #13

    Since Dark Troopers are EU only meaning EU is in play….Is there anything stopping Palpatine from just wiping the fleet out with a Force Storm? The giant Hyper Space Wormhole capable of razing planets to the ground that he’s used to destroy fleets before? img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130619025605/starwars/images/d/df/Battle_of_Pinnacle_Base.jpg

  14. Rookie May 24, 2015 at 4:20 pm -      #14

    @Aelfinn

    “Do you have a direct quote on this, Rookie? I don’t think Coruscant can stand up to a million troops and legions of titans.”

    Here’s about titans:

    “The god-machines of Legio Sirius boarded the Speranza, hunched over like age-bowed giants as they emerged from their transports with wary footfalls. Each war-engine was a towering behemoth of destruction, an avatar of the Machine-God in his aspect of the Destroyer.

    ‘Titans!’ cried Adara, pressing himself to the glass at the sight of the colossal machines.

    One engine with squared shoulders and legs like hab-towers – a Warlord – dwarfed the others, the armoured segments of its grey and gold carapace shifting like time-lapsed continental plates as it took thunderous steps towards its transit cradle. Such a machine could conquer worlds single-handedly, it could lay waste to cities and entire armies. Such a machine was worthy of worship, and it had no shortage of devotees. Thousands of robed adepts supervised the embarkation of the Mechanicus battle-engines, each one an honoured servant and a genuflecting devotee of these mobile temples to destruction.

    Smaller engines followed the Warlord like a hunting pack, a Reaver and a pair of loping Warhounds. Their weapons snapped up to follow the passage of the mag-lev as howled threats brayed from their warhorns.

    The Titans were soon lost to sight as the mag-lev passed through a metres-thick bulkhead, but it wasn’t long before they caught sight of yet more of the Kotov Expedition’s armed might. An embarkation deck swarmed with armoured vehicles, caught in what looked like an almighty snarl-up. Super-heavies were locked in with main battle tanks, armoured fighting vehicles and lurching walkers that stopped and started as space opened up for them to move.”

    About Cadians:

    “‘They are not Mechanicus,’ she said. ‘Regimental markings identify them as the 71st Cadian Hellhounds. From the dispersal pattern of the gridlocked vehicles, it seems clear the Guard units have not followed Mechanicus loading protocols.’”

    Astartes:

    “‘Archmagos Kotov also counts the Adeptus Astartes as part of his Complement of Explorators,’ added Magos Blaylock. ‘High Marshal Helbrecht himself sends a battle squad of his finest warriors to stand with Mars.’”

  15. Kitten Lord May 24, 2015 at 4:27 pm -      #15

    @Aeflinn

    “The TIE fighter really won’t be punching in a high enough weight class to really matter.”

    The TIE fighter is not the only class of GE star fighter, that is the general interceptor designed to track down other fighters. For bombing they have the aptly named TIE bomber. They also have, depending on the period countless different variations of those two, from interceptors, defenders, scimitars etc

    So the TIE fighter not having high powered armament for taking on capital ships makes sense.

  16. Sauroposeidon May 24, 2015 at 6:03 pm -      #16

    “I don’t particularly WANT to scale SW capital ships off of their fighter capabilities, ”

    Almost every single Star Dreadnaught has been downed by a star fighters. The most notorious of them being the TIE Droid Fighter, which apparently is a god damn monster.

    “This is just straight-up incorrect, if I’m being honest. IoM torpedoes should easily be in the Teratons, IIRC, and their Nova Cannons are in the Petatons. That FAR surpasses anything the GE ever brings to the table, and you need the most far-out calcs from one particular book to even have a hope of getting close to those instances.”

    So, nevermind Super Lasers and Proton Beams? Are we just ignoring that these things happened?

    “Do you have a direct quote on this, Rookie? I don’t think Coruscant can stand up to a million troops and legions of titans.”

    This is a whole planet. Covered in city. It’s ridiculous to think that a million troops would be able to overwhelm a whole planet. Maybe one theater, but not an entire planet.

    “To say “the Empire has star-fighters that can hurt their capital ships” is more of a detriment to the capital ship than it is a positive attribute for the starfighter. The TIE fighter is ridiculously weak, and every one of its showings only confirms that.”

    TIE Fighters are neither Attacker nor Bomber craft. They are, as their name implies, Fighters.

    For general Fighter/Attacker use, elite pilots received the Avenger and eventually Defender. The Defender in particular was very capable of attacking large ships. Armed with an ion weapon, which is difficult to use effectively in a dog fight, and as much heavy ordinance as its precursor, the Avenger, it was capable of being armed for interceptor roles or for bombardment missions. A flight of these could likely disable and surgically rip apart larger vessels. An entire squadron would be the death of a capital ship.

    The TIE Bomber is obviously a different beast all together.. and not their only attacker bomber craft. There’s the Star Wing, their Missile Boats, the TIE Heavy Bomber which did not replace the Bomber but acted as an even heavier variant, the even heavier TIE Punisher, the Lancet, an atmospheric only Attacker armed with a vicious proton beam, and finally the Scimitar is probably their best Attacker.

    I would be surprised if you were not familiar with any these vehicles, Aelfin.

  17. GrandMaster May 24, 2015 at 8:03 pm -      #17

    “This is just straight-up incorrect, if I’m being honest. IoM torpedoes should easily be in the Teratons, IIRC, and their Nova Cannons are in the Petatons. That FAR surpasses anything the GE ever brings to the table, and you need the most far-out calcs from one particular book to even have a hope of getting close to those instances.
    “Like that ever stopped the Battle of Coruscant from happening at the end of the Clone Wars. Imperium has better ground troops in general than Star Wars, and are likely to win a ground war at least.”

    It took an entire Legion Fleet (easily in excess of 500 ships) to destroy a planet in Fear To Tread. I think a lot of people confuse Exterminatus being planet busting when it’s really life wiping. In fact, besides Stage 2 Cyclones, which fracture the core and don’t mass scatter, the only true planet mass scatterer is the Planet Killer which took hours to destroy a planet.

    The Imperium has nothing on Dark Troopers. And Stormtroopers are on par with Cadians.

    “IoM fighters can hurt 40K capital ships too, and they’re not that heavily armed either. Also, TIE fighters aren’t going to be the mainline fighter craft used here by the GE, the TIE Interceptor supplanted it after the Battle of Yavin. It’s faster, and more heavily armed.”

    Not really. IOM fighters are armed with weapons that their ground based forces use. Their also massive and bulky as hell and won’t be able to keep up with the more maneuverable TIE Ships.

  18. pimpmage May 24, 2015 at 10:31 pm -      #18

    “How is anything supposed to get past that army of Dark Trooper Phase III’s? Where ever a couple of those are, they win.”

    Even the most basic mechanicus foot soldiers have the rarest weapons ever seen in the imperium. They have access to literally anything listed in the wargear section here.
    warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Skitarii


    “It took an entire Legion Fleet (easily in excess of 500 ships) to destroy a planet in Fear To Tread. I think a lot of people confuse Exterminatus being planet busting when it’s really life wiping. In fact, besides Stage 2 Cyclones, which fracture the core and don’t mass scatter, the only true planet mass scatterer is the Planet Killer which took hours to destroy a planet.”

    That fleet turned the entire planet into ship sized chunks. Sanquinius knew it was overkill by a large margin. Some space marines even remarked upon that. To mass scatter that planet, did not require the entire fleet. It was more like a moral boosting moment. Not actually necessary.

  19. Aelfinn May 24, 2015 at 10:55 pm -      #19

    I certainly understand that there are more fighters than just the TIE fighter, but they are nowhere near as prevalent as the TIE fighter, nor do they have many feats. The TIE bomber MIGHT have feats putting it far ahead of the fighter, but nothing I remember jumps out at me.
    =
    “So, nevermind Super Lasers and Proton Beams? Are we just ignoring that these things happened?”

    I can’t even remember Proton Beams ever being brought up, that’s how infrequently they’ve appeared to matter. I’m all for feats if you’ve got them, but what can they do?

    The Super Laser, which is on Death Stars and that one SSD (all of which are not here), is the only thing that comes close to 40K weaponry, and the SSD’s weapon can, at max, “crack the planet’s crust”, which is rather ambiguous.

    One Nova Cannon shot should equal the SSD Super Laser, anyway. The thing puts out petatons.
    =
    “This is a whole planet. Covered in city. It’s ridiculous to think that a million troops would be able to overwhelm a whole planet. Maybe one theater, but not an entire planet.”

    They only need to take the Imperial Palace. Win the space battle, slag most of the rest of the planet, and swarm the Imperial Palace to win. (I hate to mention it, but buying a few million clones was enough to threaten to bankrupt the Republic).
    =
    =
    “It took an entire Legion Fleet (easily in excess of 500 ships) to destroy a planet in Fear To Tread.”

    I wasn’t talking about blowing up the planet. You need energies WAY over petatons to destroy a planet, and the Imperium has non-Exterminatus weapons capable of those Petatons. I’m not surprised it took so many ships to blow up a planet.
    =
    “The Imperium has nothing on Dark Troopers.”

    Space Marines should fight them at a slight disadvantage, and coupled with the Imperium’s superior numbers, Titans, and tanks, they should be able to handle the 200 Phase 3 Dark Troopers. The Phase 2 Dark Troopers aren’t all that difficult, in comparison.
    =
    “And Stormtroopers are on par with Cadians.”

    I’m not too sure about that. Lasguns far, FAR outpace blasters in terms of firepower. Vaporizing limbs > kinda burning someone’s hand.

  20. Nsl98 May 24, 2015 at 11:03 pm -      #20

    Palpatine’s Force Storm ftw

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/1640326-force_storm_1.jpg

  21. Jake_Uzumaki May 24, 2015 at 11:20 pm -      #21

    @Nsl98
    I brought that up earlier, though now that’s two examples of a Force Storm destroying a fleet.

  22. Nsl98 May 24, 2015 at 11:24 pm -      #22

    @Jake
    O_o
    Sorry ’bout that.

  23. pimpmage May 24, 2015 at 11:34 pm -      #23

    Does force=warp? If so, Geller fields will nullify any force powers. Also, Whats the range of the force storm power?

  24. Aelfinn May 24, 2015 at 11:36 pm -      #24

    Destroying Star Wars ships just straight-up requires less energy than destroying 40K ships, so we don’t really know what the Force Storm will do to them, not to mention that the continent-sized ship likely solos this fight anyway. The “black-hole gun that also sends objects slightly backwards in time so they blow up in their past selves” can probably one-shot most of, if not all, of the fleet in one go, those Force-Storms wouldn’t be large enough to destroy the ship in the first place, and it’s its own giant factory that can fight a war on its own.

    Also, Teleport-beaming in a bunch of Psykers is probably one way to deal with Palpatine.

  25. pimpmage May 24, 2015 at 11:41 pm -      #25

    “those Force-Storms wouldn’t be large enough to destroy the ship in the first place, and it’s its own giant factory that can fight a war on its own.”

    Man, 40k vessels are so insanely massive. In one of my books, people were having siege warfare inside of a hanger bay of a star fort. Siege weapons, trenches, pill boxes, you name it.

  26. Jake_Uzumaki May 24, 2015 at 11:53 pm -      #26

    @Aelfinn
    It’s a wormhole that was described as fifty times the size of the ships in the fleet and can wipe out all life on a planet, unless we’re going back to Warhammer ships being more durable than superman thor hulk and sentry combined bullshit stats I’m pretty sure it’s going to wreck a lot of them before they can react.

  27. Aelfinn May 24, 2015 at 11:57 pm -      #27

    “unless we’re going back to Warhammer ships being more durable than superman thor hulk and sentry combined bullshit stats I’m pretty sure it’s going to wreck a lot of them before they can react.”

    That’s not big enough to deal with the continent-sized ship, which is the super-important one. It may wreck the smaller ships, but do we have any feats other than fleet-destroying for the Force Storm? It really doesn’t give us a baseline to compare to without it.

  28. itcheyness May 25, 2015 at 12:56 am -      #28

    It’s basically a hole in reality so armor will be pretty useless, all Palpatine has to do is keep dragging it back in forth across the ship and removing chunks of it until he hits something vital like the warp engines or the plasma reactors or something.

    Or hell, while the ship is still crawling in from the edge of the system he could remove the engines while it’s still far away and take the rest of it apart at his leisure while the ship is stranded.

  29. Darth Bombad May 25, 2015 at 1:13 am -      #29

    So i looked it up and it doesn’t seem as big as you guys say.

    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/d/d5/Ark_Mechanicus.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130409052352

    Even the quote you provided just says “kilometer upon kilometer” i’ve heard
    60km throw around, continent sized seems like a hyperbole.
    And gravity distorting mass could just means its really heavy and dense.

  30. Aelfinn May 25, 2015 at 1:17 am -      #30

    “It’s basically a hole in reality so armor will be pretty useless, all Palpatine has to do is keep dragging it back in forth across the ship and removing chunks of it until he hits something vital like the warp engines or the plasma reactors or something.”

    Is the hole in reality based on the line “it tears the very fabric of space”? In all honesty, that doesn’t tell us a whole lot, especially because one could argue that 40K ships “tear the fabric of space” every time they enter or exit the Warp. It also begs the question on how often the Emperor can summon the storms, how long it takes him to use them, how much movement he can exert once he “casts” them, etc.

  31. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 1:20 am -      #31

    “Even the quote you provided just says “kilometer upon kilometer” i’ve heard
    60km throw around, continent sized seems like a hyperbole.”

    It is not hyperbole. Primarch roboute described it as being continent sized in his mind.

    ““Roboute had heard of the vessels known as Ark Mechanicus, but had dismissed tales of their continent-sized cityscapes and planetoid bulk as exaggerations, embellished legends or outright lies.
    Now he knew better.””

  32. Darth Bombad May 25, 2015 at 1:40 am -      #32

    The problem with the Ark Mechanicus is i don’t think we have an official picture.
    So we can’t say how its lay’d out, it’s “wider than a Dominator is long”.
    But by how much? and what’s the beam to length ratio?.

    Assuming it follows a standard ship design and isn’t a cube or something,
    and since it didn’t say wider by an unimaginable margin lets say10 12km.

    So low end a 4 to 1 ratio but 10 to 1 seems more fair, between 40 something
    to over 100km long that’s Fraking Huge!, but even the most hardcore
    40k fans don’t except that its literally a continent, whatever that even means.

  33. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 1:45 am -      #33

    “40k fans don’t except that its literally a continent, whatever that even means.”

    Of course its not literally a continent, but its damn close. Close enough to make a primarch disown his previous beliefs to the contrary. He literally thought descriptions of the ships were hyperbole just like we are now. Then he actually sees one, and knows people were telling the truth.

  34. Jolttra May 25, 2015 at 3:47 am -      #34

    Does anyone have an exact number for the amount of ships in Lexell’s fleet? Composition would be helpful, too.

    So far the Empire fleet consits of 2 Executor-class Super Star Destroyers, 2 Battlecruisers of unknown class, 3 Tector-class Star Destroyers, 57 Imperial-Class Star Destroyers, an unknown number of Golan III NovaGun Satellites and 1,600 Smaller combat craft ranging from Victory and Venator classes to CR90 and DP20 Classes plus patrol craft and other small ships in presumably large numbers and hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of Starfighters of various classes.

  35. Rookie May 25, 2015 at 4:10 am -      #35

    @Darth Bombad

    “So i looked it up and it doesn’t seem as big as you guys say.”

    Speranza is not Arc Mechanicus class. It is it’s own class, artifact from Dark Age, only one such ship in IoM exist.

  36. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 7:37 am -      #36

    “Speranza is not Arc Mechanicus class. It is it’s own class, artifact from Dark Age, only one such ship in IoM exist.”

    You read ‘Mechanicus’? In the beginning of that book, it describes a ship Geom used to land on mars for the first time. The ship was described as saucer shaped object that was completely massive. Very unique. Yet I’ve never seen mention of this ship anywhere else in lore.

  37. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 8:24 am -      #37

    “I certainly understand that there are more fighters than just the TIE fighter, but they are nowhere near as prevalent as the TIE fighter, nor do they have many feats. The TIE bomber MIGHT have feats putting it far ahead of the fighter, but nothing I remember jumps out at me.”

    No, because you don’t need as many specialized vehicles as you do general purpose vehicles.

    The TIE Fighter is their early model general purpose model..

    “I can’t even remember Proton Beams ever being brought up, that’s how infrequently they’ve appeared to matter. I’m all for feats if you’ve got them, but what can they do?”

    My point was that, while the GE doesn’t have very many of their heavy hitting stuff, it always hits harder than the IoM stuff. The Death Star being a perfect example. They built only a handful, but even one could turn the tide of battle against any IoM fleet in any engagement of virtually any size.

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Proton_beam_cannon

    Proton beams are rare. I actually don’t even know if they’ll be in this fight. I was just using them as a counter to your blanket statement. I’d like to make that clear right off the bat so you don’t think I’m trying any funny business trying to shoe horn them in to the fight.

    “They only need to take the Imperial Palace. Win the space battle, slag most of the rest of the planet, and swarm the Imperial Palace to win. (I hate to mention it, but buying a few million clones was enough to threaten to bankrupt the Republic).”

    Except they have thousands of Dark Troopers…

    Just as a reminder. Their landing capsules CRASH in to a planet, causing city sized explosions which they apparently survive.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP-9StQ0G28

    skip to the one minute mark if you want to bypass Vader’s conversation.

    These are soldiers which move with the same speed and flexibility as infantry, but will go down to nothing less than heavy anti-armor weaponry.

    “Space Marines should fight them at a slight disadvantage, and coupled with the Imperium’s superior numbers, Titans, and tanks, they should be able to handle the 200 Phase 3 Dark Troopers. The Phase 2 Dark Troopers aren’t all that difficult, in comparison.”

    A small team of Phase III’s should be able to overwhelm a Titan in short order.. ironically, not unlike a little Armored Core taking on a giant Arms Fort LOL.

    “I’m not too sure about that. Lasguns far, FAR outpace blasters in terms of firepower. Vaporizing limbs > kinda burning someone’s hand.”

    You’re intentionally underselling blasters, Aelfin. They have showings of ripping out torso sized chunks of concrete, and burning straight through people.

    “Destroying Star Wars ships just straight-up requires less energy than destroying 40K ships, ”

    If I recall, similar sized ships in SW and 40k have similar levels of durability. Again, the issue is that the GE fields vastly higher numbers of the smaller ships, their cruisers are the size of IoM frigates and they seem to prefer cruisers over anything else, and fewer numbers of the bigger ones, with their SSD’s being comparable to IoM Battleships, although if I recall they have better ship to ship fighting capability and less defenses and less planetary bombardment capability.. But their starfighters and super weapons compensate for that.. which again, there SHOULD be two death stars around Coruscant right now.What is stopping those from destroying the entire IoM fleet on their own? Besides Palpatine stealing the show apparently.

  38. Neon Lord May 25, 2015 at 9:13 am -      #38

    “Just as a reminder. Their landing capsules CRASH in to a planet, causing city sized explosions which they apparently survive.”

    How the hell did you get city-sized explosions out of that video? Those flashes are almost definitely the heat glow of planet-entry through the atmosphere.

    “They have showings of ripping out torso sized chunks of concrete”

    Which we almost never see a similar kind of effect on organic/humanoid/alive targets. This was went over in the Kasrkins vs ARC Troopers thread. Lasguns >> Blasters.

    “If I recall, similar sized ships in SW and 40k have similar levels of durability.”

    So SW has ships that have shields which can tank a petaton-strength hit and regen in a few minutes?

    ” which again, there SHOULD be two death stars around Coruscant right now.”

    And why would this be?

  39. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 9:37 am -      #39

    “How the hell did you get city-sized explosions out of that video? Those flashes are almost definitely the heat glow of planet-entry through the atmosphere.”

    Because that’s the entire point of the capsules. Is to crash. Considering they’re made out of phrik, it’s probably in the kiloton range at best.. but you are definitely going to need some heavy anti-armor weaponry to kill them easily.

    “Which we almost never see a similar kind of effect on organic/humanoid/alive targets. This was went over in the Kasrkins vs ARC Troopers thread. Lasguns >> Blasters.”

    Of course lasguns are better. They’re a continuous stream, and the carbine the storm troopers use is not what I would call the most powerful blaster around. But he was underselling them as being unable to cause more than superficial damage.

    “So SW has ships that have shields which can tank a petaton-strength hit and regen in a few minutes?”

    You didn’t read the rest of my post. I would also venture to say that ISD’s use of giant ion guns renders shields sort of moot, as well.

    “And why would this be?”

    Because there are two Death Stars over Coruscant.. or at least Super Laser equipped space stations.

    www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/iswu/twins.gif

    They are cited by most sources as being under construction but the close up of the second makes it look like it’s a finished construct and that it’s intended to look that way. So it’s my personal opinion that these are super laser gun platforms. Not Death Stars.. although they’d be of similar size, obviously.

  40. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 9:57 am -      #40

    Are you saying SW shields are powered the same way and act the same way as 40k shields? That is most definitely not the case. sw shields do not shunt energy into a different dimension like 40k stuff does. You cannot say ion guns will effect void shields as they are meant to.

  41. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 10:13 am -      #41

    “Are you saying SW shields are powered the same way and act the same way as 40k shields? That is most definitely not the case. sw shields do not shunt energy into a different dimension like 40k stuff does. You cannot say ion guns will effect void shields as they are meant to.”

    Ion weapons fry circuitry and have an EM effect. Simply by firing at the shields, they disrupt the energies being used. That’s how ion weapons work. Unless your shields are powered by magic or will power, or you have a way to absorb the Ion effect somehow, it’s gonna disrupt the shields. They don’t work by punching through. They work by making them unable to work.

  42. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 10:18 am -      #42

    Do nukes not give off em effects upon detonation? Void shields have no problem with those.

  43. GrandMaster May 25, 2015 at 10:38 am -      #43

    “Which we almost never see a similar kind of effect on organic/humanoid/alive targets. This was went over in the Kasrkins vs ARC Troopers thread. Lasguns >> Blasters.”

    I believe that thread specified Hotshot Lasguns, superior, rarer, and not mass produced Lasguns, were better than Blasters. Blasters and Lasguns are around the same ballpark in firepower. And yes, we have showings where Blasters only singe someone’s hand, but we also have showings where bolters fail to penetrate a table.

    And in addition, the only time we ever see Petatons is with the Nova Cannon. Which is incredibly inaccurate for ship based warfare and only used on the biggest ships the IOM has. And, what a coincidence, the GE also has a similarly destructive weapon mounted on their biggest class of ship.

  44. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 10:54 am -      #44

    That thread used feats of regular lasguns because there were like zero quotes for hot shot guns. Also, where are you getting that bolters fall to pierce tables?

  45. GrandMaster May 25, 2015 at 10:57 am -      #45

    “That thread used feats of regular lasguns because there were like zero quotes for hot shot guns. Also, where are you getting that bolters fall to pierce tables?”

    Yes it was, and it showed that Lasguns can remove limbs/make craters in a human body. Just like Blasters. In the movies even. And Bolters failing to pierce a table was in The Unremembered Empire when the Alpha Legion attacked Guilliman. He used a table to stop bolter rounds, and he himself took severe damage from those same rounds.

  46. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 11:17 am -      #46

    You realize that table is primarch sized right? Bolt rounds are meant to penetrate a small amount THEN explode. Not outright pierce the table… Also, primarch skin was never bolter proof. Numerous books back this up. Fulgrim nearly got brained by an assassins bullet that was slightly off target. It pierced both void eyes. Vulcan regularly brands his skin with hot metal. Logar is able to tattoo his face. Fulgrim can get his foot burned away by a blow torch. The armor is what makes them so hard to kill, not their skin. And in that scene, roubute did not have his armor on.

  47. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 11:23 am -      #47

    SHA FUCKING ZAAAM.

  48. itcheyness May 25, 2015 at 11:33 am -      #48

    GE would probably have 1 proton beam cannon fitted to the Accuser in Death Squadron.

    It’s never officially stated to be a member, but it was present at both Hoth and Endor, and Piett used it as his command ship of the formation when Darth Vader took the Executor to Coruscant.

  49. Murder May 25, 2015 at 1:00 pm -      #49

    Pimpage_ I think youre under selling Primarchs. Their skin is tough enough to bounce small arm fire, as seen when Corax led an upriding. Perturabo killed 1500 Imperal Fist sent to kill him. Fulgrim claims to have let the ravenguard try to assassinate him to win his brothers help, which implies he knew it wouldnt kill him. Tattoos and brands have to be redone because their body keeps repairing the damage. Im not saying theyre invincible, just that it takes a hell of a lot to put one down or even inflict damage.

  50. Aelfinn May 25, 2015 at 1:12 pm -      #50

    “You’re intentionally underselling blasters, Aelfin. They have showings of ripping out torso sized chunks of concrete, and burning straight through people.”

    You have no proof that the walls in Cloud City were made of concrete. Not to mention that if you look here at 11:15:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBLXIMBAtaM
    Leia gets shot and she doesn’t lose a limb. Not to mention the entire video is comprised of people getting shot and…not all that much happens to them. Besides the dying of course.
    =
    “They are cited by most sources as being under construction but the close up of the second makes it look like it’s a finished construct and that it’s intended to look that way. So it’s my personal opinion that these are super laser gun platforms. Not Death Stars.. although they’d be of similar size, obviously.”

    I mean, that isn’t really all that definitive.
    =
    “A small team of Phase III’s should be able to overwhelm a Titan in short order.. ironically, not unlike a little Armored Core taking on a giant Arms Fort LOL.”

    There’s only 200 Phase 3’s, and those are the only ones who really pose a problem that requires more than standard 40K firepower. Phase 2’s fall to small-building level firepower, which considering the tanks, titans, and grenades available to the Imperium forces, wouldn’t be a problem. In regard to the Phase 3’s, however, can their weapons even penetrate the Titan’s shields? I don’t think they can, and if they can’t, they’ll have to get very close, in which case they come under fire from the Titans, the tanks, and the infantry support around said Titans. The highest-end Titan weaponry puts out the equivalent of like 200 tons of TNT every second.
    =
    =
    So I was just looking up the Phase 3 Dark Trooper. Apparently only one was ever made. Seems a bit odd to include 200 in this fight…but whatever. Anyway, it gets taken out by hand-held weaponry. May be anti-tank weapons, as they appear to be rockets or the like, but it’s certainly within the Imperium’s capabilities to take out the Phase 3 Dark Troopers.

  51. Tacotown99 May 25, 2015 at 1:13 pm -      #51

    What if Are Archmagnos captured some of those crystal forms from that ice planet and started to deeply them here as well? Suddenly you have an army of crudely made but devastating copies? Oh and don’t forget the exsploration has an Astartes strike cruiser with them I think those carry bombardment cannons.

  52. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 1:15 pm -      #52

    Was corax not wearing looted guard armor during the uprising? I also recall him using his invisibility powers allot too. The perturabo was wearing terminator armor when those imperial fists were sent to kill him. I recall his dreadnaught bodyguards being there too. Also, I I feel only 100 or so actually made it to his throne room place. And with that fulgrim bit, that may be so. But a bullet still burst both his eyes through the side of his temple. I do remember logar having to redo his tattoos, but that was not the case with vulcan. In the Unremembered empire, vulcan keeps reviving with new brands on his body that he was unaware of. Those brands reform and stayed with his body even after reforms from being atomized. I honestly think their bone structure must be incredibly resilient. But their skin not so much seeing as fulgrim took two power fist strikes to his head to knock him out.

  53. GrandMaster May 25, 2015 at 1:32 pm -      #53

    “You have no proof that the walls in Cloud City were made of concrete. Not to mention that if you look here at 11:15:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBLXIMBAtaM
    Leia gets shot and she doesn’t lose a limb. Not to mention the entire video is comprised of people getting shot and…not all that much happens to them. Besides the dying of course.”

    So are we supposed to ignore the countless other times (Movies and EU) where Blasters put out much more firepower than that? Should we gloss over the fact that SW Main Characters have a ton of plot armor? I can think of 5 times in the same movie where blaster generate the level of firepower me and Sauroposiedon are speaking about. If we want to go with low showings, We can Go with the one where Lasguns barely singe a metal wall.

    “There’s only 200 Phase 3’s, and those are the only ones who really pose a problem that requires more than standard 40K firepower. Phase 2’s fall to small-building level firepower, which considering the tanks, titans, and grenades available to the Imperium forces, wouldn’t be a problem. In regard to the Phase 3’s, however, can their weapons even penetrate the Titan’s shields? I don’t think they can, and if they can’t, they’ll have to get very close, in which case they come under fire from the Titans, the tanks, and the infantry support around said Titans. The highest-end Titan weaponry puts out the equivalent of like 200 tons of TNT every second.”

    That assumes the Imperium will even be able to land troops in the first place. They have to get through the planetary shield, which was supposedly capable of repelling a death star shot, and deal with Palpatine and deal with the Coruscanti defense fleet many times larger than the explorator fleet. And the Phase IIIs wouldn’t go after Titans, the Empire has plently of artillery up to the task.

  54. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 1:37 pm -      #54

    Match rules state the palace must be intact. The sw fleet could get destroyed, and the planet can be bombarded by hundreds of petatons a minute for months on end if need be to break the shield. Though I am guessing it wouldn’t last for more than a minute. The entire planet can be nuked except for the palace. That makes artillery useless seeing as troops can just be dropped on top of the palace.

  55. VulkanMatath May 25, 2015 at 1:56 pm -      #55

    So, This planetary shield, What kind of shield is it? Is it like the gungan ray shields, or like the Hoth shield? And, would it be able to stop the Dark-matter Black-hole cannon the Speretza has? And anyway, how many shots from that cannon could a SSD or star destroyer take? Cause I would think that it would be able to one-shot the smaller class Destroyers.

  56. Murder May 25, 2015 at 1:57 pm -      #56

    Corax was bare chested, the descripion in the book says his back was being sprayed by small arms and the bullets just fell to the ground. He let them see him as a show of force, which worked. So we at least know Primarchs are bullet proof.
    Fulgrim was struck by some kind of needle gun that can penetrate even terminator armor. And when Fabius pulled it out it was bent and dulled, pretty impressive durability feat in my opinion.
    I tthink Vulcans scars are more of a gene thing, some warp meaning to them perhaps.

  57. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 2:21 pm -      #57

    So different authors may give primarchs different durability. But what if two inconsistent feats of durability were from the same book and author? Should we try to guess why that is the case? Or just attribute it to inconsistancy? The same book that shows fulgrim’s foot getting burned away has him getting punched in the face with an active power fist twice. Does That mean they are weak to fire? Or just inconsistent writing?

  58. GrandMaster May 25, 2015 at 2:27 pm -      #58

    “Match rules state the palace must be intact. The sw fleet could get destroyed, and the planet can be bombarded by hundreds of petatons a minute for months on end if need be to break the shield. Though I am guessing it wouldn’t last for more than a minute. The entire planet can be nuked except for the palace. That makes artillery useless seeing as troops can just be dropped on top of the palace.”

    The Imperium has to win in 10 days or else it counts as an Empire Victory. And, as I said before, the only Imperium ships with Petatons are Nova Cannons which can only be placed on their largest ships. Just like the GE can place Petatons level cannons on their biggest ships. And, that is assuming of course the Explorator fleet, which is rather meager with the exception of the relic ship, dosent get blown away by the vastly larger Imperial Fleet. The only problem to the GE is the Relic Ship, which will get blown away by the Super Laser platforms or Palpatine. We also don’t know exactly how big the actual ship is.

  59. Aelfinn May 25, 2015 at 2:32 pm -      #59

    “I can think of 5 times in the same movie where blaster generate the level of firepower me and Sauroposiedon are speaking about.”

    I can’t think of those times. Do you want to post them? Luke’s hand gets shot at the beginning of the movie, and it doesn’t do much either besides burn his hand. Of course, most of his hand was metal, but the metal wasn’t really damaged at all.
    =
    “They have to get through the planetary shield, which was supposedly capable of repelling a death star shot,”

    I’ve only heard hearsay about this. Not to mention that the shield probably doesn’t have a “prevent teleportation” feat.
    =
    “deal with the Coruscanti defense fleet many times larger than the explorator fleet.”

    The black hole gun can destroy anything within 100 km of where it “hits”. The fleet would have to be drastically spread out to not get taken out in 1-2 shots, and that is not the Empire’s MO.

  60. Murder May 25, 2015 at 2:47 pm -      #60

    Can’t the IoM just teleport their SMs into the palace and capture it?

  61. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 2:59 pm -      #61

    “Do nukes not give off em effects upon detonation? Void shields have no problem with those.”

    It’s been a while, but as I recall, this effect is largely from atmospheric fall out. This is also an effect which I’ve almost never seen shown in fiction except, oddly, when a nuke went off in Godzilla. Most writers do not understand how nukes work or what is going on exactly during a nuclear blast.

    “Leia gets shot and she doesn’t lose a limb. Not to mention the entire video is comprised of people getting shot and…not all that much happens to them. Besides the dying of course.”

    I don’t think anyone is going to argue with you that they have a very wide selection of showings. I just felt you were being unfair as it seemed as if you were trying to describe them as only being capable of their lowest end showings.

    “I mean, that isn’t really all that definitive.”

    No it’s not, but the imagery appears to originate from Star Wars cards.. the same cards which people use to try and show off what a Base Delta Zero properly looks like, which I often debunk. It’s easy to assume what we would like them to be.. but I prefer to be more conservative, since if I recall the cards don’t really provide much if any context, and I haven’t been able to find the actual card that image belongs to. So I am sitting back on them being super laser platforms floating in orbit, as opposed to being actual death stars bristling with turbo lasers. They just LOOK complete to me.

    “There’s only 200 Phase 3’s, and those are the only ones who really pose a problem that requires more than standard 40K firepower. Phase 2’s fall to small-building level firepower, which considering the tanks, titans, and grenades available to the Imperium forces, wouldn’t be a problem.”

    That’s kind of the point of Phase II’s. That you need anti-vehicle stuff to bring down units which are basically infantry, that also hit as hard as vehicles.You get the best of both worlds, making them highly valuable.

    “So I was just looking up the Phase 3 Dark Trooper. Apparently only one was ever made. Seems a bit odd to include 200 in this fight…but whatever.”

    In Empire at War, there is an alternate history route where the Dark Trooper project was not stopped… the results are predictable. They steam roll everything the Rebels have except for their best stuff. Three Phase III’s will stop an entire Rebel Army’s offensive push. One AT-AT will do the same though. Three times that will let them walk in to any Rebel base and crush them. I know it’s game mechanics but.. that’s kind of what you’d expect. 200 seems a bit over kill, although if spread out over the planet to defend key points, I can see that being more reasonable..

    I should note, the Phase III’s are almost AT-ST sized in that game.. not sure why.

    “So I was just looking up the Phase 3 Dark Trooper. Apparently only one was ever made. Seems a bit odd to include 200 in this fight…but whatever. Anyway, it gets taken out by hand-held weaponry. May be anti-tank weapons, as they appear to be rockets or the like, but it’s certainly within the Imperium’s capabilities to take out the Phase 3 Dark Troopers.”

    That is the Dark Trooper Assault Cannon. It fires plasma blasts and some kind of unknown anti-armor rocket. There’s no way to quantify the rocket sadly since they’re so rarely used.

    The Phase III has a multi-barrel assault cannon which rapid fires the plasma blasts, but has no rocket option.. Instead it has concealed missile launchers in the shoulders, and “blaster cannons” in the arms. All are made out of Phrik.. which, as a reminder, are light saber proof, and the material survived the destruction of Alderaan.

    “In regard to the Phase 3’s, however, can their weapons even penetrate the Titan’s shields? I don’t think they can, and if they can’t, they’ll have to get very close, in which case they come under fire from the Titans, the tanks, and the infantry support around said Titans. The highest-end Titan weaponry puts out the equivalent of like 200 tons of TNT every second.”

    Amassed, they probably could. A singular one could not, I would expect. Although it might give scout titans a serious run for their money, since I don’t think a scout titan would be able to punch through its armor quick enough to bring it down. Their jump jet abilities and excellent weaponry make them an extreme threat to all ground vehicles, and any infantry not equipped for anti-armor.

    Empire at War also depicted Phase II’s are primarily using some kind of chain gun. As their primary purpose is anti-infantry, if I recall (I’ll go play it again sometime tonight), that’d probably make sense.

    The Miniatures game shows the Phase III with some kind of super hand gun. It still had the missiles, but the damage for the gun was the same as a blaster rifle, suggesting to me that it was just some kind of standard blaster bolt firing chain gun (due to its circle of barrels inside the main housing) which, due to the Phase III’s size, was held like a very large hand gun.

    So, they have quite a variety of weapons in the EU, and in the EU of the EU LOL.

    These things would have won them the war, basically… or might’ve if Palpatine wasn’t primarily interested in long game plans involving hijacking the hero for himself.

  62. VulkanMatath May 25, 2015 at 3:07 pm -      #62

    @Murder
    The fleet only has 6/7 marines, who are black Templars. There was a terminator chaplain, an emperor’s champion, a veteran sergeant, and 3/4 regular marines. not nearly enough to take the palace. But, if supported by secarian infiltrators & Castellax battle robots, it could be doable.

  63. GrandMaster May 25, 2015 at 3:19 pm -      #63

    “I can’t think of those times. Do you want to post them? Luke’s hand gets shot at the beginning of the movie, and it doesn’t do much either besides burn his hand. Of course, most of his hand was metal, but the metal wasn’t really damaged at all.”
    m.youtube.com/watch?v=wtoHjGWc2s8
    Take your pick. There are many blaster shots in here. All from 1 scene, not selectively chosen.

    “I’ve only heard hearsay about this. Not to mention that the shield probably doesn’t have a “prevent teleportation” feat.”

    They need Terminator Armor to survive teleportation, which the Guard don’t have access meaning that the largest body of soldiers is going to have to deploy via orbital descent right into the defense guns of Coruscant. Assuming that they can break through the shields first. Idk if the Mechanicum has some esoteric armor that can survive teleportation, but the Cadians are screwed.

    “The black hole gun can destroy anything within 100 km of where it “hits”. The fleet would have to be drastically spread out to not get taken out in 1-2 shots, and that is not the Empire’s MO.”

    That is assuming of course that the Mechanicum fleet gets in range of the Corusanti Fleet before Palpatine sucks them into a wormhole.

  64. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 3:37 pm -      #64

    “They need Terminator Armor to survive teleportation”

    Absolutely nope. Teleportation does in no way require that armor. Term armor has built in teleport tech that allows them to jump around independently of a teleportation chamber. Using teleportation chambers is usually 95% safe for anyone to use.

  65. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 3:40 pm -      #65

    “That is assuming of course that the Mechanicum fleet gets in range of the Corusanti Fleet before Palpatine sucks them into a wormhole.”

    1. 40k ships have gellar fields. If force=warp, those shields will provide ships resistances to force powers. 2. Since when is it a wormhole? I thought it was a force storm? 3. Whats the range that he can cast that? Can IoM ships not bomb the planet from beyond that range?

  66. GrandMaster May 25, 2015 at 4:07 pm -      #66

    “Absolutely nope. Teleportation does in no way require that armor. Term armor has built in teleport tech that allows them to jump around independently of a teleportation chamber. Using teleportation chambers is usually 95% safe for anyone to use.”

    Teleportation chambers are by no means 100% safe and in addition are generally described as being able to transport only squads. Transporting 1 million troops to the battleground would be incredibly inefficent.

    “1. 40k ships have gellar fields. If force=warp, those shields will provide ships resistances to force powers. 2. Since when is it a wormhole? I thought it was a force storm? 3. Whats the range that he can cast that? Can IoM ships not bomb the planet from beyond that range?”

    Geller fields are used to keep daemons out when inside the warp, it has nothing to do with psychic resistance. In addition, it is standard protocol to turn geller fields off after exiting the warp. And They take up lots of power that could instead be diverted to weapons and shields. The range on Palpatine’s force storm is easily Lightyears. He used one on Coruscant from Byss.

  67. Aelfinn May 25, 2015 at 4:13 pm -      #67

    “It’s been a while, but as I recall, this effect is largely from atmospheric fall out. “

    EMPs do not come from atmospheric fallout. It’s a natural effect of nuclear bombs to release a lightspeed EM pulse.
    =
    “I just felt you were being unfair as it seemed as if you were trying to describe them as only being capable of their lowest end showings.”

    I’m not sure I’m being unfair if every time a blaster hits a person, it barely leaves a mark (though it kills people) and there’s not much that reconciles it with the higher-end showings against inanimate objects.
    =
    “So I am sitting back on them being super laser platforms floating in orbit”

    Is there anything describing them as Super Laser platforms, though? Sure, they have those circular imprints similar to the Death Star, but that’s not a whole lot of proof.
    =
    =
    I also just remembered something. Reading up on the Mechanicus soldiers or whatever, apparently they fire super-radioactive bullets that can kill people without penetrating their armor. That seems like a pretty effective way to at least deal with the Phase 3’s and probably the Phase 2’s. I understand some of them are droid-like, but as far as I was aware, the only main-universe incarnation of the Phase 3 had a person inside of it, and the Phase 2’s also had people inside of it. People that would be susceptible to radiation poisoning.

  68. Aelfinn May 25, 2015 at 4:16 pm -      #68

    “Take your pick. There are many blaster shots in here. All from 1 scene, not selectively chosen.

    Forgot to respond to this. When I look at this scene, I see people dying without a spectacular amount of damage happening to their bodies (including the dude wearing normal cloth), and I see cameras and wall-emplacements being disabled by the blasters. There’s the grate being blown apart, sure, but we don’t really know how much of it was melted, how much of it was knocked off, and how strong the grate was in the first place.

  69. Rookie May 25, 2015 at 4:30 pm -      #69

    Some other feats for Speranza:

    After Kotov dig the ship out and activated it:

    “Only as more of the ship had been revealed did Kotov finally understand the truth.

    The ship was incomplete.

    Portions of the starship remained to be constructed, and it had never been launched. For reasons unknown, its builders had abandoned the project in its final stages and simply incorporated the existing structure into the planet’s expanding skein of industry. The ship had been forgotten, and its halls of technological marvels and grand ambition were swallowed by the evolving forge world until no hint of its original structure could be discerned.”

    ” At great risk to his own mind, he had dragged its torpid soul into being, fanning the bright spark of the Omnissiah that lay at the heart of every machine into a searing blaze of rapturous light.

    But such a violent birth was not achieved without cost, for all newborns fear leaving the peace of solitude in which they have endured the epochs. Like a wounded beast, it had lashed out in agonised bursts of archaic code all around the bio-neural networks of Palomar. Its machine screams overloaded the forge world’s carefully balanced regulatory networks and brought the planet to ruin in the blink of an eye. Hundreds of reactor cores were driven to critical mass in an instant and the subsequent explosions laid waste to entire continents. Irreplaceable libraries were reduced to ash, molten slag or howling code scraps. Millions of tanks, battle-engines and weapons desperately needed for Mankind’s endless wars were lost in the radioactive hellstorm.

    By the time the Speranza’s birth rages had subsided, every living soul on the planet’s surface was dead and every surviving forge irradiated beyond any hope of recovery, leaving a gaping shortfall in Kotov’s production tithes. Yet the loss of an entire forge world was a small price to pay, for the ancient starship now remembered itself and its glorious function. Though a number of the ship’s lower decks had been impregnated with contaminated dust blown up by planet-wide radiation storms, the majority of its structure had been spared the worst ravages of the destruction it had unleashed.”

    “The Speranza orbited Exnihlio with stately grace, a void-capable colossus, a forge world set loose among the stars.The power of its industry could sustain a system-wide campaign of war, its crew a planetary assault.”

    “Millions filled the multitude of decks within the Speranza like blood in the arteries of a living leviathan. Its bondsmen fed its fiery heart, its tech-priests tempered its tempestuous spirits and the archmagos guided its quest into the unknown.”

    Weapons:

    “To ensure no one ever rebuilt Telok’s infernal machine, the Speranza unleashed all manner of arcane weaponry into the debris. Chronometric cannons, anti-matter projectors and hypometric weapons of such power that they caused entire regions of space to simply cease existing.”

    Skitarii:

    “Of course, it didn’t hurt that they fought alongside a full repertoire of Adeptus Mechanicus killing machines. Quadrupedal praetorians of flesh and steel stalked through areas too dangerous for human soldiers, implanted cannons and energy weapons firing with whooping bangs and crackling whip-cracks of beam discharge. Packs of weaponised servitors scaled the sides of buildings with implanted grappling equipment to rain down death from above with shoulder-mounted rotary launchers and grenade dumpers. Squads of Dahan’s skitarii spearheaded assaults into occupied structures, supported by Cadian Hellhounds that flushed enemy servitor-drones into the open with gouts of blazing promethium. Sentinels smashed down weakened walls to flank enemy units and provide forward reconnaissance data for the following infantry, who in turn marched alongside Leman Russ battle tanks, Chimeras and growling Basilisks.”

    “The Crusaders increased speed, two moving around each flank as the skitarii Rhinos ground to a halt in a blizzard of glittering ice chips. Assault doors slammed back and squads of cybernetically-enhanced warriors debarked in perfect synchrony. Each squad-chief’s right eye was a battle-implant that received situational data straight from Dahan; they knew what he knew and his binaric orders were implemented virtually instantaneously.

    Like a grand-master’s regicide pieces on a tri-dimensional board, each squad moved in concert with those nearby, offering mutually supporting fields of fire and flank protection. Weaponised servitors swiftly caught up to the infantry, taking up overwatching positions to offer fire-support as and when it was required. The Cataphract robots moved alongside the infantry, their anti-personnel autocannons and power fists ready to support against any foe beyond the soldiers’ capability to engage.

    Dahan released his grip on the sides of his own Rhino and dropped to the ground, unlimbering his Cebrenian halberd and igniting his clawed scarifiers. His assigned squad hove into view, and he ran to join them with his peculiar loping gait.

    Skitarii gunfire smashed through the crystal creatures, blasting them apart with solid rounds or detonating them explosively with high-energy hotshots. Grenade launchers cleared space for praetorians to occupy and deny the enemy time to regroup. Dahan himself was not above getting his hands dirty, fighting with killing sweeps of his Cebrenian halberd. He assigned his own command squad, a mix of elite suzerain and experimental weapon-bearers, a path right into the heart of the fight.

    His accompanying skitarii unleashed a hail of plasma, graviton guns and micro-conversion beamers. Though the crystal creatures were manifestly inhuman they still obeyed the laws of physics and came apart like any other substance. Their advance was made over crunching debris of flickering crystal and cut-glass carcasses.”

    “With typical Mechanicus functionality of language, the nine machines emerging from the towering cliffs of the bulk landers were known as Land Leviathans. Straight away, Roboute saw the term was insufficiently grand for such colossal machines. Not one was less than fifty metres tall, and one was at least twice that. Most moved on caterpillar tracks tens of metres wide, some on enormous, ultra-dense wheels the size of moderately-sized habitats, while others moved on vast, pounding machine legs.

    No two were alike, for they had been constructed on many different forge worlds, over countless centuries by builders with differing technological resources, materials and aesthetic sensibilities. Here and there, it was possible to see that most shared the same basic chassis, but battle damage, centuries of attrition, addition and amendments had taken their subsequent evolution in many different directions. Above whatever form of traction gave it mobility, each Land Leviathan was a moving mountain upon which were grafted haphazard confusions of jutting towers, fragile-looking scaffolding and extrusions to which Roboute could ascribe no purpose.”

  70. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 4:43 pm -      #70

    ““The Speranza orbited Exnihlio with stately grace, a void-capable colossus, a forge world set loose among the stars.The power of its industry could sustain a system-wide campaign of war, its crew a planetary assault.”

    Wait.. is that ship literally part of the planet? Like, the ship allows the planet to move with the fleet?

  71. Rookie May 25, 2015 at 4:51 pm -      #71

    @pimpmage

    “Wait.. is that ship literally part of the planet?”

    No. Ship is just a ship, although acts as base, forge world and war machine. Exnihlio was “just” another planet along the way.

  72. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 5:00 pm -      #72

    Those quotes talk about it being part of the planet. I never saw anything to suggest it separated itself from the actual forge world. In the GK omnibus, hereteks used technology to slide their forge world into the warp for like 2 millenia. I wouldn’t put it far beyond a ship that can fire black holes to be able to move a planet’s mass. If that is actually the case.

  73. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 5:03 pm -      #73

    “Is there anything describing them as Super Laser platforms, though? Sure, they have those circular imprints similar to the Death Star, but that’s not a whole lot of proof.”

    I can’t think of anything else they would be. I’m not sure why they would construct super lasers in orbit. Traditionally, super laser artillery is built on the ground, so it’s sort of.. pointless and vulnerable.. to have them in the air like that (well, space, but you know what I mean).

    Visually, they meet the requirements to be those. I just don’t want to push them as being more than that.

    They may be some other kind of super weapon.. but I don’t know what else uses that dish style besides their “laser” weapons.

    Occam’s razor says they’re super lasers.

    Any other suggestions?

    “I’m not sure I’m being unfair if every time a blaster hits a person, it barely leaves a mark (though it kills people) and there’s not much that reconciles it with the higher-end showings against inanimate objects.”

    Considering how they work, I don’t know if you’d see more than a black mark.

    “EMPs do not come from atmospheric fallout. It’s a natural effect of nuclear bombs to release a lightspeed EM pulse.”

    No, Aelfin. The EMP effect is a direct result of the nuclear weapon’s interaction with the atmosphere. That is how I understand it to work. I was wrong that it had to do with fall out, however.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

    “I also just remembered something. Reading up on the Mechanicus soldiers or whatever, apparently they fire super-radioactive bullets that can kill people without penetrating their armor. That seems like a pretty effective way to at least deal with the Phase 3’s and probably the Phase 2’s. I understand some of them are droid-like, but as far as I was aware, the only main-universe incarnation of the Phase 3 had a person inside of it, and the Phase 2’s also had people inside of it. People that would be susceptible to radiation poisoning.”

    Phase II’s are droids. Although some sources say that occasionally they use a human base, which would make some of them cyborgs slaved to a droid mind or something I guess.

    Phase III’s can have a person in them, but don’t always.

    I have no idea how protected against radiation they are. I know radtroopers are specially protected against that stuff. They use lead. I do not know how well Phrik would stop the radiation. My default stance is, they would stop it. But I don’t think it matters since most if not all of them will be droids.

    Phase II’s are not significantly larger than humans, by the way. Phase III’s are really big.. walker sized in some sources.

    Size comparison

    img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060916172624/jedipedia/de/images/b/ba/Dunkle_Truppen.jpg

    Here we see all three Phases..

    I have seen sometimes the Phase I as being a head taller than the average human male. Sometimes as being the same size. There’s no way you’d fit more than one person inside the Phase II or Phase III.

    I consider having a person inside of them something that would need to be granted as an advantage to them, as by default they can operate on their own. They will never be as clever or as skillful as a real soldier, of course. Let alone a heroic character like, say, Kyle Katarn. Who obviously wiped them all out. Although mook to mook, I consider them more than a match for the Guard.

  74. Aelfinn May 25, 2015 at 5:52 pm -      #74

    “I can’t think of anything else they would be.”

    Just because we don’t know doesn’t mean we go with your best guess. There’s no proof they’re super lasers. I don’t even have to provide alternate possibilities as you don’t have sufficient evidence to say what they are, but to play this game, they could very well be message-amplifiers, helping organize and distribute the sheer amount of data that would be coming off of Coruscant.
    =
    “Considering how they work, I don’t know if you’d see more than a black mark.”

    As far as I was aware, they were plasma bolts wrapped in an electromagnetic field. I don’t see how this changes the fact that a lasgun has superior firepower to a blaster.
    =
    “The EMP effect is a direct result of the nuclear weapon’s interaction with the atmosphere.”

    Atmosphere and EM field, but fair enough.
    =
    “My default stance is, they would stop it.”

    I don’t think you can take that stance, as you don’t have enough evidence or feats for it. BTW, you need over a foot of lead shielding to take out most gamma radiation, and none of the Dark Troopers have that much armor.
    =
    “Phase III’s can have a person in them, but don’t always.”

    The one canon representation of them has a person inside of it. Alt universes are alt universes, I don’t see how they’d matter here.

  75. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 6:07 pm -      #75

    “Just because we don’t know doesn’t mean we go with your best guess. There’s no proof they’re super lasers. I don’t even have to provide alternate possibilities as you don’t have sufficient evidence to say what they are, but to play this game, they could very well be message-amplifiers, helping organize and distribute the sheer amount of data that would be coming off of Coruscant.”

    That’s kind of like saying that there’s no proof that the thing in the Dark Trooper Phase III’s hand in the miniatures game is a gun of any sort.. It’s pretty clearly a weapon. As are those stations.

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..

    “As far as I was aware, they were plasma bolts wrapped in an electromagnetic field. I don’t see how this changes the fact that a lasgun has superior firepower to a blaster.”

    No one is arguing that a blaster carbine hits harder than a lasgun, to my knowledge.

    “I don’t think you can take that stance, as you don’t have enough evidence or feats for it. BTW, you need over a foot of lead shielding to take out most gamma radiation, and none of the Dark Troopers have that much armor.”

    I just take it because phrik is some miracle metal that nothing gets through. That’s all there is to it. I have to keep in mind that SW is fantasy, not sci-fi, even with droids, walkers, and space ships.

    “The one canon representation of them has a person inside of it. Alt universes are alt universes, I don’t see how they’d matter here.”

    There’s never any indication of if they have a person in them or not in any of the alternate history encounters with them save the miniatures game, for the record. There it is specified as a droid.

    Their intended purpose was eventually to replace storm troopers.. this would suggest that they would eventually be manned if possible, with unmanned ones shoring up any holes in their ranks that they have, or swelling numbers so thinking, living humans can be spread out with droid subordinates.

    While I see it as possible that the GE might take troops out of their ranks to put them in the Dark Troopers. I would not give them the extra man power of already having soldiers in them by default.

  76. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 6:14 pm -      #76

    I just realized, dark troopers were playable in sw battlefront 2. Those guys were my fav unit ever.
    img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080506141517/starwars/images/1/16/Star-wars-battlefront-ii-20051019071806847.jpg

  77. Rookie May 25, 2015 at 6:18 pm -      #77

    @pimpmage

    “I just realized, dark troopers were playable in sw battlefront 2. ”

    And in Star Wars FOC too:

  78. Friendlysociopath May 25, 2015 at 6:32 pm -      #78

    Those guys were my fav unit ever.

    Jetpacks FTW, although I routinely curse Battlefront for removing Cloud City, I loved that level with a passion.

  79. Neon Lord May 25, 2015 at 8:39 pm -      #79

    “So are we supposed to ignore the countless other times (Movies and EU) where Blasters put out much more firepower than that? Should we gloss over the fact that SW Main Characters have a ton of plot armor? I can think of 5 times in the same movie where blaster generate the level of firepower me and Sauroposiedon are speaking about. If we want to go with low showings, We can Go with the one where Lasguns barely singe a metal wall.”

    And we ignore the 100x countless other times where they put out similar levels of firepower to the one where Leia was shot? The number of low-medium ends still exceeds the high-ends by a very long way.

    “Jetpacks FTW, although I routinely curse Battlefront for removing Cloud City, I loved that level with a passion.”

    Jump Packs not Jet Packs! Clone Jet Troopers were the best btw.

    “They are cited by most sources as being under construction ”

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Had_Abbadon

    Apparently, it isn’t Coruscant. It also was apparently also early concept art that never made it into official canon as all the ideas diverged into separate places.

    “Term armor has built in teleport tech that allows them to jump around independently of a teleportation chamber. Using teleportation chambers is usually 95% safe for anyone to use.”

    Most sources I’ve seen point to the opposite. Only Terminator armour is considered ‘safe’ enough to withstand the rigours of teleportation via teleportation chambers. It’s only in emergencies that someone in Power Armour will try the same thing. Terminator’s certainly don’t have built-in teleporters.

    “Geller fields are used to keep daemons out when inside the warp, it has nothing to do with psychic resistance.”

    Why would the ships need psychic resistance? If the force storm is a ‘hole to another reality’, and a Gellar field projects ‘reality’ round the ship, the ship is ‘in reality’ and is still safe.

  80. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 8:43 pm -      #80

    “Apparently, it isn’t Coruscant. It also was apparently also early concept art that never made it into official canon as all the ideas diverged into separate places.”

    Well that explains why I can’t find the damn “card.” I wonder why there’s so many sites out there that call them the Coruscant Twins.

    See Aelfin. They are Super Lasers =D They’re just not in this match.

  81. Neon Lord May 25, 2015 at 8:57 pm -      #81

    A lot of Skitarri weapons should be effective against Dark Troopers.

    Arc Weapons use electricity to fry brains and overload circuitry. Since nothing about Phrik points it to being particularly resistant to such attacks, this should work against both droid and piloted Dark Troopers.

    Eradication Beamer – Carried by Onager Walkers
    “The thin yellow beam fired by the eradication beamer widens as it projects outward from the weapon’s distinctive muzzle. Those in the middle distance will be ravaged on a molecular level by its impossible technologies. Those close by are simply atomised, their physical forms scattered to the hot winds of war without a sound.”

    Galvanic Rifles – Carried by standard Skitarii footsoldiers.
    “Modelled after the hunting flintlocks of Mars’ past, the Mk IV Arkhan galvanic rifle is a precision tool in the hands of a Skitarii Ranger. Its bodywork is that of an antique, with a polished wooden stock and curlicues that echo the sandy seas of Mars’ desert. Yet the galvanic servitor-bullets inside are incredibly advanced. When such a bullet strikes home, it causes all the potential energy of the target to burn out in a killing blast of electric force.”

    Neutron Lasers – Carried by Onager Walkers
    “The neutron laser is the last word in battlefield anti-tank weaponry. With a stabilised neutronic coil arc reactor as its power source, it is able to fire a beam so devastating it not only punches through the thickest armour but also sends out a blast wave of electromagnetic energy that scrambles circuits and synapses alike.”

    Plasma should kill Dark Troopers fairly easily I think, and is in no short supply to Skitarri forces.

    In close combat, Transonic Blades
    “Transonic blades emit a low, insistent buzz that makes stomachs turn and eyes vibrate in their sockets. When they strike armour, these weapons will adjust their hostile sonic field to match its resonant frequency, quickly slicing right through it – and, in the case of the feared chordclaw, turning muscle, bone and fat to jelly.”

    Mindscrambler Grenades – Lol the Cthulu reference.
    “Sicarian Ruststalkers are equipped with mindscrambler grenades harbouring the egg-sac of a Cthellan electrogenesis squid. When detonated, the resultant surge of bio-electricity causes heavy neural trauma in living creatures and artificial sentiences alike.”

    Skitarii are awesome.

  82. GrandMaster May 25, 2015 at 9:10 pm -      #82

    “And we ignore the 100x countless other times where they put out similar levels of firepower to the one where Leia was shot? The number of low-medium ends still exceeds the high-ends by a very long way.”

    Such as? I’m not arguing for Blasters with Grenade-like firepower. I’m arguing for the one most seen in the movies which is fist sized holes.

    “Plasma should kill Dark Troopers fairly easily I think, and is in no short supply to Skitarri forces.”

    Heavy Plasma Weapons, sure. But not the standard plasma guns. Btw, do we know how many Skitarii were in the fleet?

  83. Sauroposeidon May 25, 2015 at 10:11 pm -      #83

    “Eradication Beamer”

    Throw that on the pile of “why 40k is fantasy, not sci-fi.” That’s like Dr.Who levels of “LOL that makes zero sense and you aren’t even trying to cover that up.” But.. with out a cool fez.

    “Arc Weapons”

    Would be your best bet, since electric weapons by their nature are homing.

    I have no idea how shielded they are.

    Plasma should hurt them with sufficient energy… but considering light sabers can’t hurt them..

  84. Neon Lord May 25, 2015 at 10:54 pm -      #84

    “Such as? I’m not arguing for Blasters with Grenade-like firepower. I’m arguing for the one most seen in the movies which is fist sized holes.”

    Almost every time we see a Clone Trooper, Storm Trooper get shot in the films or TV series. Can you provide proof of fist-sized holes? You never did prove it in the ARC troopers vs Kasrkin thread.

    “Heavy Plasma Weapons, sure. But not the standard plasma guns.”

    There is literally no difference apart from the size of the plasma bolts fired.

  85. Aelfinn May 25, 2015 at 11:06 pm -      #85

    “See Aelfin. They are Super Lasers =D They’re just not in this match.”

    Haha well I guess we both lose.
    =
    “I’m arguing for the one most seen in the movies which is fist sized holes.”

    The fact of the matter is that while we don’t know most of the materials involved or what exactly is going on when the blaster hits something, we have one thing we know we can compare it to: humans. And the fact of the matter is, blasters simply don’t do as much damage as lasguns, and this is by a fair margin.
    =
    =
    So I’ve been looking up Coruscant’s planetary shields, and honestly, the IoM should be able to punch through them fairly easily. Admittedly, this is from a wiki, but anyone tell me if this stuff is wrong:

    “To do this, they hijacked a construction droid and used it to transport them to a command center where they used one of the planet’s orbital mirrors to evaporate a large amount of reservoir water, thus creating a powerful electrical storm which brought down the shields.”

    “Worse, Ysanne Isard used the Lusankya to escape Coruscant and flee to the planet Thyferra despite the efforts of Rogue Squadron. In the process, the Lusankya caused devastation to over 100 square miles (259 km²) of the planet’s surface, killing millions of inhabitants instantly. It then blasted its way through the two planetary shield levels, pausing to exchange fire with an orbiting Golan III Space Defense NovaGun before jettisoning the lift cradle and departing the Coruscant system.”

    “The Vong employed a tactic which involved waves of kamikaze ships crashing into the shield, overloading the relays, and effectively bringing it down.[92]”

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Coruscant

  86. pimpmage May 25, 2015 at 11:24 pm -      #86

    You know what I like about this match? That 40k forces are actually able to force an engagement with SW. Completely unlike the universe matches where SW debate strat was to completely avoid any outright combat with 40k stuff. Its satisfying to ‘metaphorically’ punch that snot nosed kid blowing raspberries at me from over the fence.

  87. itcheyness May 26, 2015 at 12:23 am -      #87

    Yeah this match is very well suited to IoM’s strengths. Overwhelming firepower and a complete lack of any need for actual tactics or strategy other than killing the shit out of their opponents in a standup fight…

  88. Darth Bombad May 26, 2015 at 12:51 am -      #88

    @Pimp

    You do realise Star Wars is way older than Warhammer right? which is completely
    derivative, taking bits of SW, Alien, and several other series mixed in with tween goth.
    So if any franchise is the snotnose here its definitely them.

    And they don’t avoid them in universe matches, they jump in kick the s#%t
    out of their slow ass’s and then jump away to the next engagement.
    Otherwise they’d all die of old age waiting for the IoM to show up. LoL

  89. pimpmage May 26, 2015 at 1:10 am -      #89

    “You do realise Star Wars is way older than Warhammer right?”

    The warhammer setting pulled zilch from the star wars lore. It is based off of JRR’s work. You know, dwarves, elves, etc? Sci fi with laser guns existed before even lucas’s work. Though I have no clue why this even matters.

    “And they don’t avoid them in universe matches, they jump in kick the s#%t
    out of their slow ass’s and then jump away to the next engagement.
    Otherwise they’d all die of old age waiting for the IoM to show up. LoL”

    No, they literally do not jump in and kick shit. Even system defense ships that are not warp capable could kick the shit out of SW ships. Go necro any thread. I dare ya. The tactics for SW will always be, attack where the 40k forces are not. A regular imperium frigate would be able to kill an entire fleet of star destroyers seeing as 40k void shield tech is several orders if magnitude greater than SW’s so are standard imperium ship weapons. You need a super weapon to even come near what a single ship is capable of.

  90. itcheyness May 26, 2015 at 1:15 am -      #90

    Careful there pimpmage, if you keep doing that you’re gonna go blind…

  91. pimpmage May 26, 2015 at 1:57 am -      #91

    “”Every weapon in the battleship’s arsenal was prepared and oriented down at the surface; torpedo arrays filled with warshots that could atomise whole continents in a single strike, energy cannons capable of boiling off oceans, kinetic killers that could behead mountains through the brute force of their impact. This was only the power of the ship itself; then there was the minor fleet of auxiliary craft aboard it, wings of fighters and bombers that could come screaming down into Dagonet’s atmosphere on plumes of white fire. Swift death bringers that could raze cities, burn nations.”
    Pg.561 Nemesis

    An imperial frigate is no more than an escort ship yet those things carry 2 lance batteries with 4 lances each. This example of sword-class frigate, the most commonly available kind, confirms the amount of lances. But of course, I must be wanking, its not like firepower and shield strength calcs were EVER done on this site before… Heck, the best showing I have seen before, is when a Capital ship named Terminus Est withstood 2 nova canon rounds in the book, ‘Cadian Blood’
    forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-nova-cannon.172262/

  92. pimpmage May 26, 2015 at 2:06 am -      #92

    I also recall somewhere on this site, someone posted a quote that talked about (If I recall right) 2 capital ships pounding each other for weeks, then one impacting a planet. The planetary impact popped the void shields and subsequently leveled the entire planet’s crust.

  93. Darth Bombad May 26, 2015 at 3:48 am -      #93

    Eh! the planet fall one is a good feat (assuming it survived) but the rest
    is more artistic descriptions and hyperbole from a society built on lies
    embellishment and imperial propaganda.
    I mean do they ever actually DO any of the cool shit they say?.

    And “The warhammer setting pulled zilch from the star wars lore.”
    besides the Force/warp an evil Galactic Empire/imperium Jedi/psykers.
    Those may be arguable but they also take a ton from Dune and Alien.

  94. Neon Lord May 26, 2015 at 4:34 am -      #94

    “besides the Force/warp”

    Wtf how the hell are their ideas similar?

    “an evil Galactic Empire/imperium Jedi/psykers.”

    Again, wtf? The GE is almost nothing like the Imperium, nor are Jedi and psykers.

  95. Rookie May 26, 2015 at 5:20 am -      #95

    @pimpmage

    “The planetary impact popped the void shields and subsequently leveled the entire planet’s crust.”

    In Lords of Mars main villain crash landed one of his 6 km long ships into planet so hard that only last 2 km of the ship was visible (so it was kinda like tower). Ship was mostly intact and ready to fly again.

    Also Cadians have battle psykers with them, don’t know if this help.

    Who wins for now?

  96. pimpmage May 26, 2015 at 7:39 am -      #96

    “Also Cadians have battle psykers with them, don’t know if this help.”

    It seems cadians are known to have psykers in other books. But how many regiments do the cadians have? IG regiments have shown to be anywhere from a few hundred to tens of thousands according to the lexicanium. And I know of one book that shows a regiment having only 3 sanctioned psykers. But given the rarity of psykers compared to the commonality of IG soldiers, there would only be 1 psyker per maybeeee 1 million IG troops.

  97. Sauroposeidon May 26, 2015 at 7:57 am -      #97

    “Almost every time we see a Clone Trooper, Storm Trooper get shot in the films or TV series. Can you provide proof of fist-sized holes? You never did prove it in the ARC troopers vs Kasrkin thread.”

    I don’t think that’s how blaster bolts work. They would just burn you through. Not explode you. The one time I saw someone get shot in the Clone Wars, they were hit in the front, and their back showed a smoking spot. Implying to me that they get “ashed” through where they are hit. If the energy spreads out in a damaging manner like a bullet. There may be a “bubble” of ashed meat near the impact point. Otherwise there’s just a tunnel.

    The exploding effect isn’t from explosive force, but because rapid heating causes things to explode. Plasma and Laser weapons of sufficient force should cause explosions where they hit. Not melting. In reality, this probably should happen to us too.. but, whatever, it’s star wars. Blast Bolts aren’t plasma weapons, even though by their definition, they are, but they aren’t, because, plasma has to be different, because like, they say so man, so, fuck their not-understanding-physics logic.

    “Haha well I guess we both lose.”

    So it would seem.

    ” Golan III Space Defense NovaGun ”

    Don’t Golan III’s eat ISD’s like popcorn?

    “Completely unlike the universe matches where SW debate strat was to completely avoid any outright combat with 40k stuff.”

    They don’t avoid outright combat. It’s more like the Nazis picking to go around the maginot line because it’s so much easier to invade France that way.

    The thing is you can’t win a match by perpetually running. I’ve seen this tactic tried before somehow. Simply outwaiting their opponent because their opponent has no way to ever catch them.. it didn’t work then. GE has always won because it brings more to the table.

    “The warhammer setting pulled zilch from the star wars lore. It is based off of JRR’s work. You know, dwarves, elves, etc? Sci fi with laser guns existed before even lucas’s work. Though I have no clue why this even matters.”

    Noooo, noooo, it pretty clearly pulls from SW. Although, it seems to be an attempt to parody the Empire, not just steal from it. Just as the ‘nids are parodies of Alien, ect. I don’t think there’s a faction that isn’t supposed to be a comedic rip besides the Tau, since they were blatant pandering to the hard sci-fi and anime crowd.

    Oddly, it’s not a rip of Tolkein’s work. WH Fantasy is. 40k’s fantasy elements are all drawn from it’s fantasy counterpart, making these mostly self-parodies.

    ” But of course, I must be wanking”

    You are. One frigate doesn’t wipe whole fleets of ISD’s. They’re around the same. Although there are probably specialized frigates which could give ISD’s a lot of trouble.

    One Tau Frigate could probably wipe a battlegroup of ISD’s. Their weapons directly counter the Empire’s stuff, and any given Tau ship is equal to an Imperium ship one order above it in the lore every time they engage. But the Imperium? No.

    “Wtf how the hell are their ideas similar?”

    I’m gonna side with you on this one. The Warp is just an extension of Fantasy’s magic, and has nothing really to do with The Force.

    “Heck, the best showing I have seen before, is when a Capital ship named Terminus Est ”

    That’s a Chaos ship, Pimp. Come on. Chaos’ defining trait is its durability in most engagements. Extreme durability/regen coupled with unusual gimmicks to counter their lack of big fuck you cannons which they seem to not employ as often as everyone else. Especially in the case of Nurgle.

    Guess who commands that ship? Mother Fuckin’ Typhus. Guess who he fights for? Papa Nurgle.

    You already know these things, pimp, quit trying to lead us in circles.

    You’re trying to take what might be the most durable ship in the entirety of the franchise and present that as something that all of the big ships in this fleet should be able to do.

    “Even system defense ships that are not warp capable could kick the shit out of SW ships”

    Aren’t system defenses by their nature much more powerful than equivalent sized ships? This is also the case in Star Wars (note the Golan III bit earlier).

    This is why the Imperium was unable to engage in actual gun fights with Tau system defenses with out overwhelming force or teleporting melee soldiers in to their stations. A stationary defense doesn’t need to devote all that power to FTL drives and shit. It can just be as many weapons and shields as you can fit with a few little thrusters to putter about as need be to get to what needs defending.

    Although, again, ion weapons do help solve this problem usually. Something the GE loves to use.

    “Who wins for now?”

    Considering the GE apparently gets thousands of ships in this battle, they have a strong showing. They get their proton gun too, which is nice. No death stars like I thought, but they bring a serious ground game to counter invasion.

    Looking at the numbers for the IoM ground game I don’t think they can take this with out massive fuck ups on the GE part (which, is something that could happen, let’s be honest), but I don’t see it being something that could cost them enough out of 100 matches to lose this.

    In space, I don’t know how many ships they have. But it’d have to be a damn lot to counter that many Imperial ships. It really depends on if they can bring enough numbers to just muscle their way through this. If not, then they have no way to win this. The Galactic Empire enjoys surgical precision strikes in space combat, and will probably slice away the fleet like a loaf of bread if they can’t bring enough fire power to force the GE in to a stand up fight.

    Ion Guns and bombers keep this fight in their favor mostly it seems in my opinion.

    It does seem odd that the GE has to wait 10 days for support, by the way, when it takes everyone else mere hours to get anywhere in the galaxy. But whatever, thems the rules.

  98. Tacotown99 May 26, 2015 at 8:09 am -      #98

    I have to go so I’ll pull out the quote later bu kotov and a few other upper level staff could over clock themselves so much that every round from an assault cannon could hit its mark and kill a vary old but deadly robot.

  99. pimpmage May 26, 2015 at 8:21 am -      #99

    “Although, it seems to be an attempt to parody the Empire”

    A completely united mankind parodies sw’s empire?

    “You are. One frigate doesn’t wipe whole fleets of ISD’s. They’re around the same. Although there are probably specialized frigates which could give ISD’s a lot of trouble.”

    The most common frigate in any imperial fleet is the sword class, that has 8 lances. That is not a specialized class of ship.

    “That’s a Chaos ship, Pimp. Come on. Chaos’ defining trait is its durability in most engagements. Extreme durability/regen coupled with unusual gimmicks to counter their lack of big fuck you cannons which they seem to not employ as often as everyone else. Especially in the case of Nurgle.”

    I knew it was a chaos ship. It still widstood two fucking planet mass scattering nova cannon shots.

    “You already know these things, pimp, quit trying to lead us in circles.”

    Who it is leady by and what kind of ship it is does not matter. Even if you scale down these nova cannon biggatons by a few orders of magnitude to compensate for the specialty of the situation, you still get left with biggatons that are several orders of magnitude greater than SW ships.

    “Aren’t system defenses by their nature much more powerful than equivalent sized ships? This is also the case in Star Wars (note the Golan III bit earlier).”

    Not in 40k, they are pretty much just fodder ships. Extremely mass produced and left in all imperial controlled systems.

  100. Neon Lord May 26, 2015 at 8:31 am -      #100

    “Noooo, noooo, it pretty clearly pulls from SW. Although, it seems to be an attempt to parody the Empire, not just steal from it. ”

    In no way does the Imperium attempt to parody the Empire. Apples and Oranges here. Both round, both fruit, but quite clearly different.

    “That’s a Chaos ship, Pimp. Come on. Chaos’ defining trait is its durability in most engagements.”

    Ummm…no. Chaos’ gimmick is Chaos. Chaos stuff is generally no more durable than Imperial counterparts unless it’s Nurgle.

    “You’re trying to take what might be the most durable ship in the entirety of the franchise and present that as something that all of the big ships in this fleet should be able to do.”

    Where did the pull the ‘most durable ship in the entirety of the franchise thing’ from? The Terminus Est is merely fairly tough for something of it’s class, and was nearly destroyed at least once.

    “Guess who commands that ship? Mother Fuckin’ Typhus. Guess who he fights for? Papa Nurgle.”

    And these effect shield strength how? Nurgle will toughen the armour, not the shields. And I’m pretty sure the quote in question took place during the Horus Heresy, which means it wasn’t even Chaos infected then.

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