Sci-Fi Tank Free for All

Sci-Fi Tank Free for All

Suggested by Alpha or Omega

Sci-Fi Tank Free for All

Leman Russ Tank (WH40K) vs Armored Assault Tank (Star Wars, New EU and Old EU allowed) vs Mammoth Tank MK.IV (CnC) vs Landmaster (Star Fox 64) vs Mako (Mass Effect) vs Demolisher Tank (BattleTech) vs Siege Tank (Starcraft)

Location: City 17 (Half Life)

They start 100 Meters from each other.

They have maximum ammunition, shielding, and upgrades.

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148 Comments on "Sci-Fi Tank Free for All"

  1. The definition of insanity May 7, 2015 at 12:06 am -      #1

    :Disengage lurk mode for: 1 post:

    Im not entirely sure about who would win. I just know the seige tank and leman russ are going to be the first to be gibbed. Thats all

    :Lurk mode re-engaged:

  2. Ordo11 May 7, 2015 at 12:59 am -      #2

    ok so siege tank and mako, along with aat won’t win. Need stats for the rest of em.

  3. Rookie May 7, 2015 at 1:51 am -      #3

    @Ordo11

    “Need stats for the rest of em.”

    Here is demolisher tank stats:
    www.sarna.net/wiki/Demolisher
    www.sarna.net/wiki/Demolisher_II

  4. Jolttra May 7, 2015 at 2:11 am -      #4

    The Lemas Russ tank has heavy firpower and frontal armor and being from Warhammer is insanely over the top in power. But it’s insanely slow. So it will have trouble hitting some of the faster opponents. Especially with it’s main guns limited transverse.

    The Armored Assault Tank is similar in design philosophy to the Russ tank. Lot’s of forward firepower and armour. In addition to a powerful long range Heavy Laser cannon and two side lasers it has 6 short range missile launchers for close attacks. The fatal flaw is the rear and side armor. Like most tanks this armour is lighter then the front but in this case it’s super light, the powercore and other systems being placed in.the rear not helping. It has modest speed and above average maneuverability thought, so flanking isn’t that easy.

    Of the given choices the Mammoth is easily the largest and heaviest. (The Predator Tank would have fit the theme better, btw.) So while it has tbe most firepower and armor it is also the slowest and most easily flanked. C&C isn’t that high on the tech food chain so while it wil be immune to some of these tanks weaponry the two above it may have enough power for a critical hit.

    Landmaster is without a doubt the fastest and most manuverable tank here. Star Fox tech is pretty high up on the totem pole and this tank has a solid armerment and armor even possessing it’s own shield. Of the tanks here I say this has the best chance to win.

    Mako is second in speed and maneuverability but lacks the armour and firepower of the Landmaster and is arguably the worst in both respects. I don’t see it surviving very long.

    Demolisher tank is pretty standard in design and doesn’t have anything to special. Its better then a Halo Scorpion Tank or a C&C Predator tank but is rather lack luster compared to tbese other powerhouses. Still has a better chance then the Mako, however.

    Siege Tank is well protected and the Plasma canons give it plenty of power. But besides it’s Siege gun ability, which has no use here, there is not much to say design wise. The fact Starcraft is higher on tbe tech tree is the only stand out feature.

    My ranking for this goes;
    1-Landmaster
    2-Siegetank
    3-AAT
    4-Lemas Russ Tank
    5-Mammoth Tank
    6-Demolisher Tank
    7-Mako

  5. Limbo Lowk May 7, 2015 at 2:49 am -      #5

    “Mako is second in speed and maneuverability but lacks the armour and firepower of the Landmaster and is arguably the worst in both respects.”

    Really, Eh, might as well give info on anyway.

    Mass effects Infantry fighting Vehicles shield and armor taking a hit.
    “A dashboard-camera video of an improvised explosive device that toppled an infantry fighting vehicle on Taetrus has garnered over 560 million extranet hits. Five servicemen were riding in a C77 Tyrus vehicle when the explosive, buried in the center of the road, went off. The bomb, made from two artillery shells and a detonator, threw the 13-ton vehicle into the air but failed to pierce its kinetic barriers and armor. The crew escaped with minor injuries and used the Tyrus’ eezo core to lower its mass and right the vehicle with the aid of a tow cable and an aircar. “
    -The War on Taetrus: Video of IED Explosion on Taetrus Garners Millions of Hits

    The Mako itself fell from orbit, crashed and it’s hull, wheel, misc exterior intact.
    www.supercheats.com/guides/files/guid/mass-effect-2/me2part2s59.jpg
    If Shepard had made it to that thing he might have a few less robo parts…

    Regarding it’s weapon
    “With its turreted 155mm mass accelerator and coaxially-mounted machine gun, the Mako can provide a squad with heavy weapon support as well as mobility. “
    ME official site: Galactic Codex Entry

    I’m not sure how damage a 155mm projectile could do but I’m pretty sure a one hitting hypersonic could hurt something right?

    Some misc tid bits
    The Mako’s hull is covered with laser detection arrays, which forewarn the crew of enemy laser-guided ordnance. Ground-penetrating radar allows detection of anti-vehicle mines and other subsurface anomalies. These will be brought to the attention of the crew by the vehicle’s micro-frame computer system.
    -ME official site: Galactic Codex Entry

  6. Neon Lord May 7, 2015 at 4:38 am -      #6

    The Mammoth is a larger class of tank then the rest. Jolttra is right in that the Predator would’ve fit better (even though its rather bad). I’m pretty sure the Mammoths twin 150mm railguns can one-shot all the other tanks in this match. Speed only becomes a factor at closer ranges where the vehicle can go around the tank faster than the turret can turn. As soon as the Mammoth gets something in its sights, the target is toast. Even if something were faster, the Mammoth has quad missile pods which can track enemy vehicles.

    And…I just noticed that they start 100m away from each other. That’s literally point-blank for tanks, and does put the Mammoth at a major disadvantage against the more mobile tanks.

    “The Armored Assault Tank is similar in design philosophy to the Russ tank. Lot’s of forward firepower and armour. In addition to a powerful long range Heavy Laser cannon and two side lasers it has 6 short range missile launchers for close attacks.”

    AAT’s don’t have missiles, unless you’re talking about some special modified variant. They also don’t have very competent crews…

    “-The War on Taetrus: Video of IED Explosion on Taetrus Garners Millions of Hits”

    The feat contradicts the anti-mine detection capabilities in the specs, but is a good durability feat.

    The Leman Russ can potentially target up to four other tanks at once due to it’s two sponsons (presumably armed with Plasma Cannons), hull-mounted Lascannon, and main Battle Cannon turret. It’s got a ton of armour on the front and sides, and despite what people say about if being a crap tank design, is actually quite durable if it isn’t hit in the rear, and to a lesser extent, the sides.

    The Siege Tank doesn’t have many feats outside of gameplay afaik.

    I’m not familar with the rest.

  7. Namer May 7, 2015 at 4:43 am -      #7

    The Mako, is an IFV. The rest are Tanks. If it stays at range and uses its maneuverability within the city streets, it might get a kill in. The Kinetic Barriers should let it survive one or two shots from the heavier tanks.
    .
    The Siege Tank is a little out of its game here, since it’s actual function is arguably Artillery rather than an MBT. It also won’t be able to use its Siege Mode at all, with the city’s buildings blocking its LoS and the chance of another tank just rolling by and shooting it dead.
    .
    The Leman Russ can potentially target up to four other tanks at once due to it’s two sponsons (presumably armed with Plasma Cannons), hull-mounted Lascannon, and main Battle Cannon turret. It’s got a ton of armour on the front and sides, and despite what people say about if being a crap tank design, is actually quite durable if it isn’t hit in the rear, and to a lesser extent, the sides.
    .
    Isn’t it rather slow, though? It might get easily flanked inside a city.
    .
    So, shrug, it might go to the Landmaster, though I’m always inclined to support the Mako.

  8. pimpmage May 7, 2015 at 8:02 am -      #8

    “Landmaster is without a doubt the fastest and most manuverable tank here. Star Fox tech is pretty high up on the totem pole”

    Oh gees. Being high on the totem pole means you are least important. The lowest spot gives the greatest significance.

  9. Ordo11 May 7, 2015 at 8:32 am -      #9

    The missiles he is referring to are plasma coated missiles, helps them penetrate armor better. Used relatively close and easily destroy big powerful bunkers. But yeah it has weak rear armor, but it is almost impossible to get behind it. Also it’s missiles are forward firing fixed weapons. They are meant for big immobile heavily armed and armored bunkers.

    Those 155mm rail guns can only really take out the siege tank and the possibly the land raider. They might tickle the other ones.

  10. Kytheros May 7, 2015 at 9:12 am -      #10

    What kind of scifi tank battle doesn’t have any BOLOs?! This scenario receives an automatic fail because of that lack.

    The Mako isn’t really a tank. It’s a light IFV/light APC. It’d be with the mechanized infantry, not the armor units.
    The Mako’s probably fast and maneuverable enough to kill the ones it can kill and evade the rest. It might be able to stay out of the way for the others to pound each other into scrap and try to play clean up on what’s left.

    They’re starting way too close to one another.

  11. Klondike Bar May 7, 2015 at 9:35 am -      #11

    How large are the rail guns and what do they fire? I really know next to nothing about any of the tanks besides siege, baneblade, and mako. And only preliminary knowledge then.

  12. Karen Starr May 7, 2015 at 9:36 am -      #12

    While I agree a tank match should have a BOLO, they tend to make the match a stomp.

  13. Alpha or Omega May 7, 2015 at 11:36 am -      #13

    @Kytheros
    I didn’t put in the Bolo because I thought it would be up against the likes of the Cyclops.
    I might do Sci-Fi Tank Free for All 2 with a Bolo and Cyclops put in that one.
    /
    @everyone else
    I thought the Mako was a tank.That’s what I get for only getting familiar with Shepard and only Shepard.
    As the guy who suggested this match, should I put in the Hammerhead instead?
    /
    The tanks start 1 km apart from each other.
    /
    Still in school. Be back in about 4 hrs.

  14. Friendlysociopath May 7, 2015 at 11:51 am -      #14

    As the guy who suggested this match, should I put in the Hammerhead instead?

    Still an infantry fighting vehicle.
    I think the Mako would stand a better chance here as it has a shield, the Hammerhead does not. That’s just my opinion though.

  15. Ordo11 May 7, 2015 at 12:09 pm -      #15

    Tau hammerhead, possibly, ME one no.

    Maybe a pillar from Sup Com?

  16. Jolttra May 7, 2015 at 1:14 pm -      #16

    Upgraging it to 1Km? That changes things a bit…

    Close corters cimbat is noe impossible so speed and manuvabilty take a back seat to armor and firepower. (Speak of, to those saying the Mako has more firepower, it’s single 155 mm gun is not much next to the much heavier Russ Battle Cannon or the Mamoths twin 150 mm arail guns and projectile weapons are generally inferior to missile and energy weapons used by the others.) So here is my revised list based on this new development.

    1-Laman Russ
    2-AAT
    3-Landmaster
    4-Demolisher
    5-Mammoth
    6-Siegetank
    7-Nako

    If your wondering how the Demolisher got sych a large boost, it has numerous missile launcher attachments that I didn’t mention before as they are meant for long range and would have been of little use in close courters.

    The Landmaster has a boost ability that allows it to go over 200 km/h. So it can rush any of these targets quickly and pass over the 1 km distance in about 30 seconds. But it is forced to go on a strait away and will be a sitting duck against fast firing systems. Hence why the AAT and Laman Russ still beat it, they posses more then enough forward firepower and can dish it out quickly. The other system are either to slow or lack the firepower needed to take the Landmaster down.

  17. Friendlysociopath May 7, 2015 at 1:23 pm -      #17

    Isn’t the Mako’s weapon a railgun?

    Also; is the Mako riding up a building to snipe from above a valid tactic?

  18. Limbo Lowk May 7, 2015 at 1:51 pm -      #18

    “the Hammerhead does not.”

    It does, just not in game mechanics..
    ===
    “Isn’t the Mako’s weapon a railgun?”

    Basically.
    ===
    “Mako riding up a building”

    asset-9.soup.io/asset/2905/6792_9638_960.jpeg
    Funny thing is, I’m not sure whether its ability to scale pretty anything is a canon ability or not. Guess I’ll have to wait till ME4.

  19. Ordo11 May 7, 2015 at 2:10 pm -      #19

    Hmm aat did better than I thought it would also, the rail guns on the mako, unless they accelerate that round to ridiculous speeds, it won’t penetrate that many tanks armor. I would say replace it with a tank from honor verse, but I don’t like to say make it a stomp.

  20. Friendlysociopath May 7, 2015 at 2:17 pm -      #20

    Funny thing is, I’m not sure whether its ability to scale pretty anything is a canon ability or not.

    Actually I believe it is, it’s referenced in ME2 I think; a rock-climbing team was named after it.

    unless they accelerate that round to ridiculous speeds

    Not to sound mean but- you know what a railgun is right?

  21. Ordo11 May 7, 2015 at 2:31 pm -      #21

    Yes I do, and I mean more ridiculous than normal. Kind of like honor verse pulsars.

  22. Limbo Lowk May 7, 2015 at 2:40 pm -      #22

    “unless they accelerate that round to ridiculous speeds”

    For ME the Mass Accelerator cannons fire at hypervelocity.

  23. Alpha or Omega May 7, 2015 at 3:54 pm -      #23

    Which is better, the Mako or Hammerhead?
    /
    Technical specs of the Landmaster
    vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starfox/images/6/6e/LandmasterBPs.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080907044021
    207 km/h(128.62mph)
    Front/Rear Armor has .65m
    Side armor has .45m
    It has one laser cannon and smart bomb launcher.
    /
    According to this, it can synthesize its hydrogen fuel for their plasma engines
    img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080907044022/starfox/images/4/46/BluemarineBP.jpg
    /
    The landmaster is capable of also doing canopy rolls and hovering.

  24. Limbo Lowk May 7, 2015 at 4:06 pm -      #24

    “Which is better, the Mako or Hammerhead?”

    Personally, until I see how the Mako has evolved, I prefer the Hammerhead. Even if game mechanics take away the shield, it has auto repair, can basically fly, and iirc have countermeasures for missiles.

  25. Alpha or Omega May 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm -      #25

    Landmaster’s feats.
    www.arwinglanding.net/gallery/albums/sfcomic_02/p58.jpg
    www.arwinglanding.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=58
    www.arwinglanding.net/gallery/albums/sfcomic_02/p60.jpg
    A worn down Landmaster from lack of funds and maintenance shoots a novabomb(a smartbomb outside of Japan) at close range and survives it. It proceeds to fly up smashing through several floors until it’s outside and breaks down.
    Also a feat for the smart bomb since it wipes out Andross, a monkey’s head that’s 25.5 meters tall and collapses the base.
    /
    The base, in question
    www.arwinglanding.net/gallery/albums/sfcomic_02/p09.jpg
    Is bigger than the Great Fox ship. That’s about 375 meters.
    So, the Landmaster collapses a base that’s 375 meters tall and flies through several of its floors until it gets out from the roof.

  26. Alpha or Omega May 7, 2015 at 4:21 pm -      #26

    Alright, the Hammerhead is in instead of the Mako.
    It can have shields.

  27. Friendlysociopath May 7, 2015 at 4:25 pm -      #27

    It can have shields.

    Elaborate please

  28. Alpha or Omega May 7, 2015 at 4:34 pm -      #28

    It can have the same shielding the Mako has for…generosity?
    I don’t know if it has shields, and that game mechanics takes it away like Lowk said.
    Or, if there’s truly no shields for it.
    I’m giving it shielding out of kindness.
    Assume that it has the same shielding the Mako has.

  29. Neon Lord May 7, 2015 at 9:36 pm -      #29

    “The missiles he is referring to are plasma coated missiles, helps them penetrate armor better. Used relatively close and easily destroy big powerful bunkers. But yeah it has weak rear armor, but it is almost impossible to get behind it. Also it’s missiles are forward firing fixed weapons. They are meant for big immobile heavily armed and armored bunkers.”

    In EU they existed, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen them actually use them in current canon. I definitely don’t recall them using the missiles against tanks anywhere in EU either.

    “Close corters cimbat is noe impossible so speed and manuvabilty take a back seat to armor and firepower. ”

    The battleground is a city though, which means that maneuverability still plays a part, and long range bombardment is hard due to the buildings in the way.

    “Maybe a pillar from Sup Com?”

    Everything from Supcom is like 5 times the size of what you would normally expect, so probably not.

    Most likely to win for me is the Mammoth. It’s the toughest, largest, and has the most powerful armament. The only way it’s going to get taken down is if it gets trapped in a street between two or three other tanks.

  30. Alpha or Omega May 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm -      #30

    “In EU they existed, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen them actually use them in current canon. I definitely don’t recall them using the missiles against tanks anywhere in EU either.”
    /
    Actually, I made the stipulation so that feats include both Old EU(Pre-Disney acquisition) and New EU(Disney acquisition)
    /
    “The battleground is a city though, which means that maneuverability still plays a part, and long range bombardment is hard due to the buildings in the way.”
    /
    I was under the impression that building’s could be leveled down in one to five shots by everyone here to pave their way through.
    /
    “Everything from Supcom is like 5 times the size of what you would normally expect, so probably not.”
    /
    Yeah, Supreme Commander is like the little brother to Total Annihilation.
    /
    “Most likely to win for me is the Mammoth. It’s the toughest, largest, and has the most powerful armament. The only way it’s going to get taken down is if it gets trapped in a street between two or three other tanks.”
    /
    How powerful are the armaments?
    How does it compare to the smart bombs/nova bombs in the scans of post 25?
    Also, the Landmaster has the advantage of going on top of buildings by using its boosters to get on top of it.

  31. Friendlysociopath May 7, 2015 at 10:13 pm -      #31

    I was under the impression that building’s could be leveled down in one to five shots by everyone here to pave their way through.

    True, but that
    A) Draws extreme amounts of attention; leading to multiple opponents firing on the one that is showing themselves.
    B) Still gives the enemy time to get away as the building falls; unless people here can just shoot straight through buildings no prob.

    Assume that it has the same shielding the Mako has.

    The Mako would seem to be pretty durable, it survived the crash of the Normandy mostly intact. How much of that was shielding vs sturdy construction I do not know.

  32. Alpha or Omega May 7, 2015 at 10:28 pm -      #32

    “True, but that
    A) Draws extreme amounts of attention; leading to multiple opponents firing on the one that is showing themselves.”
    /
    Anyone of their weapons give off a huge explosion and destructive anyway. The buildings are just going to be part of the casualty.
    /
    “B) Still gives the enemy time to get away as the building falls; unless people here can just shoot straight through buildings no prob.”
    /
    Yeah, I usually don’t do tank battles.
    /
    Fak, I realized the site showing those scans are denying permission to see it.
    youtu.be/2mMrCQfKRM4?t=522
    From the time-stamp there all the way to 9:57.
    A worn down Landmaster, from lack of maintenance and funds, shoots the smart bomb(nova bomb in Japan) at point blank range, and plows through the floors of the base until it’s outside and broken.
    /
    The base, in question
    youtu.be/zLlIYs4G9KA?t=270
    Is bigger than the Great Fox ship. That’s more than 375 meters(Great Fox’s height). And, the Landmaster hovered more than that while plowing through several floors.
    So, the Landmaster wipes out most of Andross and collapses a base that’s 375 meters tall and flies through several of its floors until it gets out from the roof.

  33. Ordo11 May 7, 2015 at 11:45 pm -      #33

    Please give me mps.

    Reference to honor verse pulsars, though this is just the rifle.
    “The non-explosive darts screamed across the cavern at two thousand meters per second, and Tadeuz O’Brian was qualified Expert Marksman with the pulse rifle. Body armor slowed them, but it couldn’t possibly stop them at such a short range, and they struck precisely where he’d intended—a centimeter below Colonel Bryan Westerfeldt’s navel.”

    Excerpt From: Weber, David. “On Basilisk Station.” Baen Books, 1999-03-01T05:00:00+00:00. iBooks.
    This material may be protected by copyright.


    Don’t know if that is as fast as I think it is though.

  34. Limbo Lowk May 7, 2015 at 11:58 pm -      #34

    “Don’t know if that is as fast as I think it is though.”

    Just under mach 6, which should put it in the hypersonic range.

  35. Ordo11 May 8, 2015 at 12:01 am -      #35

    K

  36. Ordo11 May 8, 2015 at 12:02 am -      #36

    Well cool. Also can anyone think of a fight for armored guys who wear armor that has chief’s stats, uses these guns with explosive rounds and fireing fast as heck.

  37. Limbo Lowk May 8, 2015 at 1:11 am -      #37

    “How much of that was shielding vs sturdy construction I do not know.”

    I think that might have been all Mako. It was off when the ship crashed. However the shielding can take hit from the geth armatures which have anti tank mode and the other incident has shown how durable shielding can be. At least from explosives.
    ===
    My question is how high can the tank cannons aim? It was mentioned earlier Landmaster can hop up buildings and if we are switching to the hammerhead it could fly up them and fire down homing missiles from above them.
    ===
    “Also can anyone think of a fight for armored guys who wear armor that has chief’s stats”

    -Commander Shepard(Mass effect)
    -Adam Jensen(deus ex)
    -Agent Venom(Marvel)
    -A Tenno(warframe) have a few exoskeleton form that are in the supersoldiers range.
    -Maybe a Ghost(Starcraft)

  38. Neon Lord May 8, 2015 at 1:34 am -      #38

    “Actually, I made the stipulation so that feats include both Old EU(Pre-Disney acquisition) and New EU(Disney acquisition)”

    Are they any examples of AAT’s using their missiles against other tanks? It’s never appeared in the films and throughout all the Clone Wars episodes.

    “I was under the impression that building’s could be leveled down in one to five shots by everyone here to pave their way through.”

    Doing so will give away the tank’s position, and there a lot of buildings around. How effective the tanks are at taking out buildings also depends on the armament on the tank. HE rounds like the Leman Russ and Siege Tank will demolish them quickly, but railgun rounds from the Mako and Mammoth are penetrators and won’t be nearly as effective (although they can most likely hit things on the other side).

    It also takes a lot of time and ammo to take out every single building in the tank’s way, which is why would they would me more inclined use the existing streets.

    “How powerful are the armaments?”

    Time for some calcs.
    Assuming the railgun round is made out of tungsten (which has the highest melting point of any element), and has dimensions similar to this .50 cal bullet
    upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/50_bmg_12.7×99.PNG/220px-50_bmg_12.7×99.PNG
    The railgun round should have a mass of
    (pi*(0.075^2)*1.65)*19250 = 561 kilograms
    (for ease of calculation, I assumed the round was a cylinder)
    That round seems a bit long, so I’ll also do a low-end calc for a round half the length which would be 280.5 kilograms in mass.

    Several sources I have found cite muzzle velocity of a modern developmental railgun at 2500m/s, so I will assume it is the same for these ones.
    Using the simple KE formula of 1/2m(v^2), the railgun round will hit with roughly 1.75 gigajoules of energy (and the half-sized round will hit with roughly 0.875 gigajoules) concentrated into an area of 0.0175m^2.

    I don’t know how this stacks up against modern tank armour, but it definitely fulfils the requirements of a penetrator round in that it imparts a massive amount of energy in a very small area.

    Also, there’s this quote of a Tau Railgun from 40k hitting a Imperial tank (presumably a Leman Russ)
    “”One of their light walkers carried a weapon of lethal effect. It fired a form of ultra-high velocity projectile. I saw one of our tanks after having been hit by it. There was a small hole punched in either flank – one the projectile’s entry point, the other its exit. The tiny munition had passed through the vehicle with such speed that everything within the hull not welded down had been sucked out through the exit hole. Including the crew. We never identified their bodies, for all that remained of them was a red stain upon the ground extending some twenty metres from the wreck.”

    If a railgun can do that to a Leman Russ, the other tanks are screwed.

    The Mammoth also has four missile pods which can not only take out ground targets but also track aircraft. Even if the Mammoth can’t tilt its turret high enough to hit the Landmaster, the missiles certainly can.

    “Well cool. Also can anyone think of a fight for armored guys who wear armor that has chief’s stats, uses these guns with explosive rounds and fireing fast as heck.”

    USIF from Section 8 sound like that (although with incendiary instead of explosive rounds).

  39. Neon Lord May 8, 2015 at 1:44 am -      #39

    Correction, tungsten has the highest melting point of any metal in pure form, not of all elements.

    I just found that railguns may use tungsten carbide rather than raw tungsten. That would put the KE of the round to a slightly lower 1.4 gigajoules (and half that for a half-sized round).

  40. pimpmage May 8, 2015 at 2:55 am -      #40

    “If a railgun can do that to a Leman Russ, the other tanks are screwed.”

    Thats clearly an association fallacy. Tau railguns /= irl railguns.

  41. Ordo11 May 8, 2015 at 7:06 am -      #41

    Tau rail guns are wired, but it might work. Not as well as you are thinking, as there are other statements of leman russes taking those hits.

  42. Neon Lord May 8, 2015 at 8:57 am -      #42

    “Thats clearly an association fallacy. Tau railguns /= irl railguns.”

    How so? All railguns work based off the same scientific principles. The only things that change and can make a major difference are the size of the round and the length of the rails.

  43. Ordo11 May 8, 2015 at 10:16 am -      #43

    Tau use huge rounds, and huge magnets. They get massive penetration.


    That is like comparing a legacy Verpine shatter rifle to the main cannon of the AT-TE

  44. Tacotown99 May 8, 2015 at 10:24 am -      #44

    Um neon you seam to forget what the Tau have available to them in power generation oh and that rail gun is huge, it has a very long barrel to accelerate the projectile. Any one have an idea of the length of a hammerhead or broadside suits rail gun? Oh and don’t forget that this is GW cannon so exspect inaccurate scaleing

  45. Ordo11 May 8, 2015 at 10:44 am -      #45

    Yup.

    Basically my analogy from before. It’s kind of like comparing a anti personnel rifle to a tank/bunker buster.

  46. Tacotown99 May 8, 2015 at 10:55 am -      #46

    Opps I think we posted at the same time…

  47. Tacotown99 May 8, 2015 at 11:02 am -      #47

    ( damnit double posting iPad)Any ways from what I rember from starfox assault.(great game) you could hover for I want to say 5 sec along with a lock on feature that was pretty much a gaerntied hit as long as you didn’t pull a barrel roll. And if the Russ has plasma cannons for sponson mounts it’s going to reck havoc on almost any convental armor Oh and just something I was curious about what should a land raider classed as a MBT, IFV, Assault tank?

  48. Neon Lord May 8, 2015 at 8:21 pm -      #48

    The railgun round was from a Broadside, not a Hammerhead, and that one is FAR smaller than a Mammoth’s. If anything, the Mammoth’s one is going to be far more powerful.

  49. Neon Lord May 8, 2015 at 8:26 pm -      #49

    “Using the simple KE formula of 1/2m(v^2), the railgun round will hit with roughly 1.75 gigajoules of energy (and the half-sized round will hit with roughly 0.875 gigajoules) concentrated into an area of 0.0175m^2.”

    Correction, (0.075^2 * pi) m^2 for the area

  50. Ordo11 May 9, 2015 at 12:24 am -      #50

    We are talking about the mako’s rail gun, not the mammoth. We already determined that it’s rail guns will blow through anything here.

    Also I am really confused by how you thought me comparing a antipersonnel gun to a tank gun had anything to do with the mammoth. I was comparing 2 Star Wars legends rail guns. They are both rail guns but they do entirely different things.

  51. Neon Lord May 9, 2015 at 3:23 am -      #51

    The Mako’s gun is 155mm, which is slightly larger than the Mammoth’s. The only variable that can now change is the length of the barrel, which will affect the the muzzle velocity of the round. As posted above, a ME infantry rifle can fire rounds just under Mach 6. A vehicle mounted one should be higher simply because the round-to-barrel-length ratio looks significantly higher.

    Kinetic Penetrators are quite simply one of the best anti-armour weapons you can use against a tank

  52. Sauroposeidon May 9, 2015 at 9:11 am -      #52

    Wow why didn’t this match appear for me? It’s really cool to see another tank battle on BankGambling. We just don’t get enough of these.

    As for the contestants…

    The AAT is slow.. there’s no way around that. It’s never depicted as being very fast to my knowledge. It is often depicted a shaving great fire power, and its secondary weapons aren’t much to laugh at either.. but it probably lacks the fire power of some of the more dangerous opponents here. I’d say its primary feature is its armor. Its crew are not the most competent in the world, but after they stopped using droid control ships so heavily the more independent crews did seem to perform better in later showings. The major weakness of this vehicle isn’t its slowness, but the crew.

    The Leman Russ is also slow, and it features many, many weak points in its design. Where as the AAT only has a few weak points. Namely the bullet trap under the front of its turret and the exposed launchers for its missiles/rockets/whatever.. the Leman Russ is plagued with design flaws. The exposed tracks being a serious one. It’s nowhere nearly as poorly designed as it’s bigger (but cooler looking) brother, the Baneblade.. but it could have the best fire power, speed, and armor and it wouldn’t matter. You don’t even need to be lucky to land a hit on one of its many weak points. If it’s so easy to do in simulators on well designed realistic tanks (like War Thunder) for amateurs like us, I can’t imagine it’s difficult for actual soldiers.

    Right now, AAT is likely to beat the Leman Russ, unless its crew bails on the tank, and use it as a decoy while ambushing the AAT and taking it from its comparatively pathetic crew. But assuming tank-jacking is not allowed, that’s not a viable option.

    Both of these tanks are likely to be easily flanked in a FFA though.

    The Land Master and the Mako both easily eat the AAT and Leman Russ alive if encountered in a solo battle or in a pitched stand off between multiple parties. They can’t react any better than old WW2 model tanks and are not suited for this kind of combat. While the Landmaster and the Mako are both very nimble. Both have displayed the ability to take serious beatings and put out nasty fire power. Their best showings for both of them is their agility and speed. In particular, the fact that the player routinely sees them get THROWN around, and usually through the player’s own doing! While Star Fox is a bit more cartoony, ME is not. and I think it’s safe to assume that the game developers are aware of what kind of forces are involved when a vehicle is sent rolling, or drops from a cliff, or whatever else have you.

    Right now, Landmaster and Mako are now winning, I would presume Landmaster can beat the Mako simply because it can roll quickly to one side or the other. I don’t remember if it’s ever subjected to the extreme ranges that the Mako is but it seems to match or best the Mako in terms of versatility.Both have nice slanted armor and no obvious, easy to hit weak points just at a glance.. except for the Mako’s wheels. While the Landmaster protects its treads from forward and top impact, and has thick metal wheels which basically act as their own armor, the Mako has traditional wheels and this is its sole weakness. While it’s clear it loses no all terrain ability despite the use of wheels, it does not seem concerned with protecting them. A single hit to these would end the match for the Mako.

    The Siege Tank is this match’s sniper. It’s capable of taking a beating but isn’t fast enough to compete. It doesn’t stand out in any way except for its long range siege mode. As long as it can keep its distance and actually avoid fighting until it absolutely has to, and it uses its siege mode effectively, it has a chance.

    I can not comment on the Mammoth tank.

    The old Demolisher might be the best armored tank here.. but it’s certainly not the fastest. All of the other tanks likely out range it.

    As a veteran Armored Core player, the one thing I can say from my personal experience in FFA battles with machines vaguely similar to the ones here.. is that mobility does matter. I routinely pilot heavy tank models or heavy bipeds.. but they always have some element of fire power or armor sacrificed a little bit to keep me faster than the other tanks. It is VERY easy to get bogged down. You don’t get to pick your engagements if you’re too slow. You don’t get to pick the range of your engagements if you’re too slow. It’s easy to be unable to escape someone who’s equipment happens to match well against yours, or to be stuck in a fight with someone who is difficult to bring down while others pepper your rear armor. Even if you have the best armor in the match, if the other combatants decide they want you to go down, you’re going to get teamed up on, and you’re going to go down. Sometimes you get lucky. They think you’re a big slow out dated dinosaur who isn’t dangerous because you’re not sexy and sleek and fast like they are.. and only then do you win primarily because they don’t have the ammo to worry about. Your heavier weapons do have to worry about ammo though. The Siege Tank, the Demolisher, the Leman Russ all have to worry about their ammo. The Mako, the Landmaster, the AAT do not.

    The Demolisher, AAT, Leman Russ, and I’m guessing Mammoth from what very very little I’ve seen are likely to get ganged up on by each other but most notably the Landmaster and Mako.

    If a crew plays it smart, and engages discreetly and sparingly, it’s an unexciting battle but it leans things in their favor. The AAT crew is not smart..

    The AAT can not possibly win this.

    The Leman Russ can attack from multiple angles.. but this doesn’t matter when it’s not easily outmatching enemies in fire power or armor here.

    The Leman Russ can not possibly win this.

    The Demolisher’s lack of speed and range, despite being able to put out 40 points of damage. That is a lot. The 50 kiloton Killer Whale missile does 50 points of damage. AC/20’s are likely able to put out more concentrated fire on point on targets in range than anything else in this match… the problem is getting there.

    Experience in Chrome Hounds with exceedingly slow Hounds dictates that, yes, the Demolisher will probably get at least one kill in. Likely on someone who underestimates it for its size and speed and lack of secondary weapons.

    Someone, probably two someones, will be stupid enough to get in close.

    That’s about it, and the Demolisher will eventually be picked down until its weapon is busted once that ablative armor is finally worn through.

    The Demolisher can not possibly win this battle. A specified variant would have been better.

    Assuming the Mammoth brings nothing special to the table that lets it stand out from the Leman Russ, AAT, and Demolisher.. it probably will go down in flames as well. If I recall, it’s no push over, and will probably fair similar to the Demolisher, but with slightly better performance since I don’t think it has as crap range as the Demolisher has. If the Demolisher is lucky, it won’t encounter the Mammoth first, because that would likely deny it getting a kill.

    At a mere 1 kilometer, this is practically point blank range. The Siege Tank isn’t likely to be able to get in to position to do what it wants.

    Experience from Armored Core sniping and Chrome Hounds artillery gunning indicates that if it’s spotted before it can, it’s never going to get to do what it wants. While it can drop a lot of hurt and maybe kill one opponent.. it’s not going to win the match. It needs at least a little bit more range. If they all start off in range of each other (except for the Demolisher it seems) and know where each other are, it’s fucked.

    The Siege Tank can not possibly win this match.

    So we’re down to the Landmaster and Mako again.

    The Mako has very nice feats for it, and it’s hard to vote against it, but I am still leaning in the Landmaster’s favor due to it’s greater agility.

    I think it still comes down to these two, and I think the Mako may be worse for wear when the two finally do meet. If they meet before they’re the last two standing it’s fairly easy for both to disengage who ever they don’t want to fight and maneuver to a better position or retreat entirely.

    They pack the perfect mixture of speed, fire power, and armor.

    My ranking is..

    Landmaster
    Mako
    Siege
    AAT
    Demolisher
    Mammoth
    Leman Russ

  53. Zazax May 9, 2015 at 10:00 am -      #53

    For the Mammoth Tank, since this is specified as the Mk. IV, it has a few abilities the previous versions lack. For one thing, it has a nanobot-derived self-repair module capable of bringing it back to full functionality without any outside assistance that kicks in if it’s disabled or ‘destroyed’ but not completely obliterated.
    It also has reflective armor, which gives it a chance to bounce incoming fire back at the source, somehow.
    No idea if it makes any difference, but they haven’t been mentioned yet.

  54. Neon Lord May 9, 2015 at 10:28 am -      #54

    “For the Mammoth Tank, since this is specified as the Mk. IV”

    Wow, I just noticed this. I was assuming it was the Mk.III the whole time doh. Not much difference though apart from what you said.

    “The Leman Russ can attack from multiple angles.. but this doesn’t matter when it’s not easily outmatching enemies in fire power or armor here.”

    How is it lacking in the firepower and armour departments? I get you have major gripes about its design, but the Leman Russ has very good frontal armour, decent side, and a crapton of firepower.

    Sloped armour isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
    www.weaponsofwwii.com/armour-guide-military-metallurgy
    and only matters against physical projectiles. I also expect sloping armour will have no major advantage over straight against energy weapons.

    The Leman Russ is unlikely to win, but it’s not trash either (unlike the AAT).

    “At a mere 1 kilometer, this is practically point blank range. The Siege Tank isn’t likely to be able to get in to position to do what it wants.”

    This isn’t like real life where an Abrams can hit a football-sized target at however-many-kilometres. Unless you have feats of any of these tanks engaging effectively at kilometre ranges, in a city no less, then don’t assume they can.

    “They pack the perfect mixture of speed, fire power, and armor.”

    What does the Landmaster even shoot? Does it fire energy rounds or physical projectiles? How powerful is it’s cannon? How durable is it against penetrator rounds/missiles? (I know Alpha already posted a feat of it tanking an explosion, but that’s a different type of durability feat).

  55. Cananatra May 9, 2015 at 11:05 am -      #55

    The Leman Russ design gets a lot more hate then it really deserves. It’s a fairly rugged design that is very easy to fix when damaged. It’s the only tank in this battle which can have battlefield repairs done to it by its crew. For a number of its major systems. It’s also far less temperamental and built with far greater tolerances then any of the others. You have a piece of masonry going 100m/s from a near miss hit a railguns barrel and you better be damned sure it’s rails are still perfectly aligned when you fire or you tear your own tank apart. On the other hand you hit a 120mm smoothbore and the worst is its aim getting thrown off until the crew corrects.

    Sure the tank can only do 35kph, rather anaemic. But it can fire with full accuracy at that speed from its main gun, as it has equal or superior fire control to a modern MBT. In most instances it will score a first shot hit. Exposed tracks are of limited issue in this engagement. No track can survive a hit from another tank no matter how well covered it is, unless you over penetrate the track and thus don’t compromise it. It is however the only tank here whose crew can repair its own track in the field. All the others would either need hours to remove armour plate or have tracks too large to man handle.

    As for the armour design, you have to understand the battlefield conditions. You mention War Thunder, and yet the Leman Russ’s Armour Plas armour would make it unkillable in that game. Even though it is slab sided. Hell look at today’s tanks. You want sloped armour against most penetrators, but you want it flat if you’re using modern composite armour because a 90degree impact is more effectively absorbed then steeper angles. As it stands, in novels such as Gunheads the Leman Russ has taken hits to its glacis which had sufficient force to move the tank several meters. And for something that weighs 60tonnes that is a lot of absorbed energy.

    The problem the more advanced (and they are all more advanced I would say) is party they are so much more advanced. The AAT is designed to take blaster hits, not heavy kinetic strikes or HE hits. Even if its armour held against the AP rounds the tank (sitting on AG) would be buffeted. More important though is a HE hit. The chance that Blaster resistant armour is going to be proof against horrific spalling is unlikely. And that says nothing for the delicate systems that sit on the outside of the tank. The lasers for example will be utterly destroyed by the concussion of a HE round. Even if their focusing lenses where made of some super material and didn’t instantly shatter they’d never maintain alignment after a hit that hard. Rendering the tank combat incapable. The same weapon vulnerabilities apply to the Rail gun users too. If your rails or coils get even slightly misaligned your gun tears itself to shreds or the stresses would demount it.

    I’m not saying the Leman Russ would certainly win this fight. But it could conceivably do so and most certainly put the hurt on any of the others its comes across. And it does seem to be in a city.

  56. Friendlysociopath May 9, 2015 at 12:07 pm -      #56

    I’m on the side of agility myself, the Landmaster and Mako/Hammerhead are both capable of maneuvering better than the enemy tanks- and they’re in a city, meaning movement and cover is extremely important.
    Currently siding with the Mako/Hammerhead as it survived the Normandy crashing more or less intact, and it has an auto-repair feature plus a kinetic barrier- and that barrier can take a lot of punishment.

  57. Sauroposeidon May 9, 2015 at 5:27 pm -      #57

    “How is it lacking in the firepower and armour departments? I get you have major gripes about its design, but the Leman Russ has very good frontal armour, decent side, and a crapton of firepower.”

    I believe my exact words were “not easily outmatching.” I didn’t say it was lacking in any other area other than speed.

    “The Leman Russ is unlikely to win, but it’s not trash either (unlike the AAT).”

    I would not call the AAT trash. It has a fairly good service record with only its crew showing as being its major failing.

    “This isn’t like real life where an Abrams can hit a football-sized target at however-many-kilometres. Unless you have feats of any of these tanks engaging effectively at kilometre ranges, in a city no less, then don’t assume they can.”

    Don’t the majority of them have these feats? I think it’s easy to assume a sci-fi tank, unless otherwords specified, likely can engage at these ranges.

    “and only matters against physical projectiles.”

    Which most of the tanks here use.

    “What does the Landmaster even shoot?”

    It uses a more powerful version of the laser cannon that the arwings use. It can charge up to make up for the fact that upgrades can’t be acquired for it. It can also apparently use nova bombs, although I don’t remember ever doing this.

    It also has a maximum speed of 207kmh and uses gravity technology for its shields and power source.

    It’s probably the most technologically advanced tank in this match.

    ” In most instances it will score a first shot hit. ”

    The Leman Russ tanks lost to Tau Hammerheads.. which are analogous to Hellcat Tank Destroyers, I feel. Their slow speed and over reliance on their armor durability has cost them repeatedly in the path. I do not know why the Imperium gives so little importance to its main battle tanks when it clearly has the technology to make better tanks but.. the Leman Russ is no more likely to land the first shot than everyone else. Probably because they’re all humans or human-level in ability.

    “As for the armour design, you have to understand the battlefield conditions. You mention War Thunder, and yet the Leman Russ’s Armour Plas armour would make it unkillable in that game. Even though it is slab sided. Hell look at today’s tanks. You want sloped armour against most penetrators, but you want it flat if you’re using modern composite armour because a 90degree impact is more effectively absorbed then steeper angles. As it stands, in novels such as Gunheads the Leman Russ has taken hits to its glacis which had sufficient force to move the tank several meters. And for something that weighs 60tonnes that is a lot of absorbed energy.”

    This is more of my point of the tank relies too heavily on its ability to absorb fire with its armor. Just don’t aim for the obvious points and cut it to ribbons. One of my biggest issues with the tank is the huge unarmored area in the front sponson. It’s COMPLETELY unarmored! Even if it can take a hit, you’re going to jam the fucking gun if you hit it there with a big shell. Imagine if an energy weapon hit it there. Instead of melting some front plate armor off it’s slag a chunk of the sponson and jam the thing in such a way that until it’s taken in for repairs and had the entire gun repaired it would be useless. The side sponsons also suffer this to a degree. Look at how thick the armor is AROUND them, and then look at that huge unarmored gap where the gun is sticking out. One HE round there and you have shit flying into the inside of the tank from the side, killing anyone there. The rear, also, is pretty bad, but I don’t hate it for that. All tanks have weaker rear armor. Even in real life there’s stuff that gets through that much easier than the sloped fronts. Usually I think the engine acts as a sort of defensive chunk that rounds have a hard time getting through.

    The Leman Russ is begging for a smart tanker to rip her to bite sized kibble. She is the biggest offender of bad tank design in this match. Probably because 40k runs by the rule of cool but it does make for some glaring weaknesses when pitched in battles with other tanks.

    We still use sloped armor on our tanks. I don’t know who’s telling you otherwise. It’s not just that it adds effective armor, it provides a chance to deflect the shell entirely, which is much more important.

  58. Neon Lord May 9, 2015 at 8:22 pm -      #58

    “I would not call the AAT trash. It has a fairly good service record with only its crew showing as being its major failing.”

    It takes a single portable missile launcher to knock one out. A railgun hit, HE shell, or even Hunter-Killer Missile/Missile Pod missile will knock it out instantly.

    “Don’t the majority of them have these feats? I think it’s easy to assume a sci-fi tank, unless otherwords specified, likely can engage at these ranges.”

    Except we never see any of these tanks fight at kilometre ranges, unless you can provide feats of them doing so.

    “Which most of the tanks here use.”

    Except the Landmaster, which is what you are campaigning for as the winner. How powerful is its gun?

    “The Leman Russ tanks lost to Tau Hammerheads.. which are analogous to Hellcat Tank Destroyers, I feel. ”

    Well duh, Hammerheads have railguns (which are dedicated to anti-tank, unlike Battle Cannons), and could actually engage at their maximum multi-kilometre ranges in a desert (so zero cover) during the Taros Campaign. If a Leman Russ actually gets in range and a chance to fire i.e. with the cover provided in a city, then it has a good chance of taking it’s target out.

    If the Mammoth is smart, rather than go in at the start, it should reverse back out. At a kilometre out of the city, the buildings should be more sparse and the terrain more open already. Going further there should be open fields pretty soom. Then it becomes a shooting gallery as soon as any tank attempts to engage the Mammoth, since it’s railguns will simple penetrate straight through any sparse buildings that happen to get in the way.

  59. Alpha or Omega May 9, 2015 at 10:08 pm -      #59

    “Except the Landmaster, which is what you are campaigning for as the winner. How powerful is its gun?”
    /
    I showed a video/comic of the Landmaster using smartbomb/novabomb launcher vaporizing Andross, an ape’s head that is three times the height of the landmaster.
    /
    But, for the T&B-J2 laser cannon.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACycZq-21t0
    It’s capable of blowing up boulders that are about twice the height and the same length/width of the Landmaster’s(8.5m tall and 17.5 long) and destroying Train Flatbeds that are longer than and about as high as the Landmaster.
    Other than that, it’s capable of one-shotting most air/space-craft and does more damage than an unupgraded Arwing.

  60. Cananatra May 10, 2015 at 4:16 am -      #60

    “The Leman Russ tanks lost to Tau Hammerheads.. which are analogous to Hellcat Tank Destroyers, I feel. Their slow speed and over reliance on their armor durability has cost them repeatedly in the path. I do not know why the Imperium gives so little importance to its main battle tanks when it clearly has the technology to make better tanks but.. the Leman Russ is no more likely to land the first shot than everyone else. Probably because they’re all humans or human-level in ability.”

    If I’m guessing the engagement you are referring to the engagement was more or less perfectly chosen to be advantageous to the hammerheads and gimp the russ’s. Then again the Tau are ‘we have the best individual everything’ kind of race. You have to understand though, that for what the imperium uses its tanks for they are perfectly designed. Any major human world has massive cities, and tanks are naturally bad in cities. Infantry can sneak up on them with man portable weapons and ruin their day. That’s why they have such relatively thick armour. You have tau hammerheads pushing street by street through a Hive and they will take monstrously higher casualties then Leman Russ’s in the same situation. Then we come to the age old trade off. Technologically speaking the t34 was inferior to the panther tank, and yet the t34 was the better tank for the war. Tau tanks when you get right down to it are very much over engineered. They use very advanced technology that requires specialised factories to make and repair. The Leman Russ we could make in a modern factory if we had the material science to make its armour. Hell we could make a leman russ analog in modern materials without any major design changes. What that means is the imperium can build these tanks on more worlds in greater numbers than their more advanced counterparts. Tactically they are not as good as the hammerhead. Strategically they are.

    Oh I know they have the same accuracy. I was just pointing out they aren’t hand cranked WW2 analogs like some people assume.

    “One of my biggest issues with the tank is the huge unarmored area in the front sponson.”

    Well we don’t actually have a detailed armour plan for the machine but eyeballing you’re right. The sponsons would obviously be a weakpoint. But that’s a trade off you have to make. If you are clearing out a hive city, a sponson is better than no sponson. Sure you make your armour weaker against other tanks in that area, but you drastically improve your anti-infantry ability. Bear in mind there are non-sponsoned patterns of leman russ too. I’d imagine those ones are preferred on worlds where the tanks don’t have to fend off hordes of close infantry assaults.

    “We still use sloped armor on our tanks. I don’t know who’s telling you otherwise. It’s not just that it adds effective armor, it provides a chance to deflect the shell entirely, which is much more important.”


    I know we still use it, but look at modern tanks. And look at their turrets. Most of them aren’t rounded anymore, which as you know is just sloping on an additional axis. Sloping is becoming secondary to modern composites wish to more efficiently absorb an impact. And remember, sloping would have little effect on energy weapons for its increased volume.

  61. Hylias Hero May 10, 2015 at 4:53 am -      #61

    I would like to add that the Landmaster has a far superior rate of fire on it’s cannon than any of the other tanks here as well as a lock on ability.

  62. Namer May 10, 2015 at 6:28 am -      #62

    “Using the simple KE formula of 1/2m(v^2), the railgun round will hit with roughly 1.75 gigajoules of energy (and the half-sized round will hit with roughly 0.875 gigajoules) concentrated into an area of 0.0175m^2.”
    .
    I recall calcs putting the Mako’s cannon at 3.02 gigajoules, which is more than half again that. But the Landmaster still probably has more firepower, if it can vaporise boulders larger than itself.

  63. Sauroposeidon May 10, 2015 at 8:44 am -      #63

    “It takes a single portable missile launcher to knock one out. A railgun hit, HE shell, or even Hunter-Killer Missile/Missile Pod missile will knock it out instantly.”

    It takes a single man portable missile launcher to take out a modern MBT too. man portable missiles tend to be of the same size and punch as what tanks are firing at each other. They are not in any way weak.

    “Except we never see any of these tanks fight at kilometre ranges, unless you can provide feats of them doing so.”

    It’s really more along the lines of the crew’s ability. The tank itself doesn’t have “feats of being able to fire that far.” The projectile by its nature must be able to fly that far to have the punch to hurt other armored vehicles, really. So unless the weapon is stated to be range limited (like the AC/20) then it’s not an issue. The issue is that the crew has to have the accuracy to actually hit something that far. As they’re trained soldiers, I assume they in fact have the ability to point and click. This is just kind of basic logic here. It’s like saying we need to see a feat of a character punching someone to know they can punch even if all we’ve ever seen them do is shoot (like, say, movie-verse boba fett). He’s a soldier, he has the physical capability to. We should assume he can punch. The same is with tanks engaging at a kilometer or more.

    “Except the Landmaster, which is what you are campaigning for as the winner. How powerful is its gun?”

    Well Arwing lasers fuck up buildings and battleships, so pretty powerful I’m guessing.

    “Well duh, Hammerheads have railguns (which are dedicated to anti-tank, unlike Battle Cannons), and could actually engage at their maximum multi-kilometre ranges in a desert (so zero cover) during the Taros Campaign. If a Leman Russ actually gets in range and a chance to fire i.e. with the cover provided in a city, then it has a good chance of taking it’s target out.”

    If you think that’s the only time they’ve engaged each other, you’re mistaken.

    “You have tau hammerheads pushing street by street through a Hive and they will take monstrously higher casualties then Leman Russ’s in the same situation”

    This is because the Hammerhead is designed to fight other tanks. They’d probably send crisis suits and or devilfish in. The Leman Russ is not well designed for a main battle tank. It’s really more of an assault tank, and shouldn’t be forced to fight other tanks, and instead be kept to anti-infantry or infantry support roles. The Imperium really needs a better dedicated tank that the Leman Russ and the Predator which.. I know little of except for the disdain everyone seems to have for it.

    “Strategically they are.”

    Strategically, they rely on plot armor. They’re just a shitty tank.

    “I would like to add that the Landmaster has a far superior rate of fire on it’s cannon than any of the other tanks here as well as a lock on ability.”

    I don’t really know if the lock on is that big of an advantage. I don’t think anything here is fast enough to warrant that.. but yes, it has the ability to knock aircraft out of the sky thanks to that.

    I tried to find some star fox assault clips (where it’s laser seems to be slower firing but is more powerful to make up for it) but I couldn’t find any with out people talking obnoxiously over the entire level. Its lock on seems to be improved and it’s been switched to using wheels in that, but over all it seems to be the same vehicle and the changes I don’t think alter how it will fight in this match. The previously linked to video from starfox 64 should get the job done for feats.

    Right now we’re still looking at the Mako and the Landmaster as the two most likely to win it, I think.

    Oh and Cananatra. What do you think over engineered means? Because I’ve NEVER read any fluff indicating that the Hammerhead is such.

    “I know we still use it, but look at modern tanks. And look at their turrets. Most of them aren’t rounded anymore, ”

    Pretty sure the major countries all have sloped armor on their MBT turrets..

  64. seradon May 10, 2015 at 11:47 am -      #64

    I say the MK.4 Mammoth probably takes this. Most of the other tanks will be having a hard time trying to get through that Octagonal armor, and the ones that do are just gonna find their own shots being reflected back at them. Outside of that, it’s fully upgraded form actually doubles up it’s missile pods in addition to mounting the twin railguns, and it’s self repair system will allow it to return to combat if the opponent is unaware of the feature and doesn’t completely destroy the husk. No one ever expects the super-heavily armored zombie tank.

  65. Sauroposeidon May 10, 2015 at 12:25 pm -      #65

    Just for my own benefit. Can somebody get some info on the mammoth for me? I have sadly never played C&C, much to my embarrassment.

    Some clips of it would be cool too.

  66. Ordo11 May 10, 2015 at 12:37 pm -      #66

    Ummm, those man portable missle launchers are using mini nukes that confine their blast radius to a super dense area. And rail guns won’t pierce the armor entirely. The only reason an at-the takes these suckers out is that it has that very same mi no nuke, though a little better, in it.

  67. pimpmage May 10, 2015 at 12:40 pm -      #67

    They are the heaviest tank in the series. It has two main cannons, and anti air missiles. It’s from rts game so all we would have is unit stats really. Though I SWEAR there was an in-game cut scene somewhere in the red alert games that showed a mammoth tank getting blown up by a pair of missiles from a helicopter. I tried to find it back when this match was first posted with no luck.

  68. seradon May 10, 2015 at 12:46 pm -      #68

    @Sauroposeidon
    _

    Here’s a video of one of the first story missions you can have access to one. Unfortunately, despite EA releasing unit footage for several of the game units, I cannot for the life of me find one for the Mammoth Mk. IV.
    youtu.be/GQpWPVaGwXA?t=282

    The wiki page for some more in-depth details:
    cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Mammoth_tank_(Tiberian_Twilight)

  69. Zazax May 10, 2015 at 1:01 pm -      #69

    “Just for my own benefit. Can somebody get some info on the mammoth for me?”
    It’s a wiki, so take this with a grain of salt:cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Mammoth_tank_(Tiberian_Twilight)
    Totally stock it has ‘octagonal composite’ armor, 150mm cannons and a pair of homing missile pods capable of tracking aircraft. Once upgraded, the cannons turn into similarly-sized railguns, it grabs another pair of missile pods, the armor becomes ‘reflective’ and can bounce enemy fire back at its source ‘from any angle’, and it gains a nanite-based self-repair system that will restore the tank to full functionality if it’s not totally destroyed.

    “Some clips of it would be cool too.”
    Those would pretty much universally be game mechanics, since it’s a C&C game. They still use live-action cutscenes and it’s an RTS, so dramatic war scenes are reserved for actual gameplay.
    While not exactly the most useful comparison, I can say that the Mammoth is the single toughest unit in the entire game, in a world where even the most basic infantryman is walking around in power armor and toting a railgun as big as he is.
    For perspective, Zone Troopers, who in C&C 3 were the top-tier, best-of-the-best infantry units, are in C&C 4 (where this version of the Mammoth is from) the spammable basic infantry that are little more than cannon fodder.
    It should also be noted that apparently the Mammoth’s railguns have some punch to them, even for their universe, since they are a dramatic damage upgrade over the cannons and will even pierce through multiple targets.

    “Though I SWEAR there was an in-game cut scene somewhere in the red alert games that showed a mammoth tank getting blown up by a pair of missiles from a helicopter. I tried to find it back when this match was first posted with no luck.”
    Different tank. Red Alert and the Tiberiumverse are sadly no longer in the same continuity, because EA.

    And I seem to have been ninja’d on the wiki link. Ah well.

  70. Sauroposeidon May 10, 2015 at 2:00 pm -      #70

    Thank you.

  71. pimpmage May 10, 2015 at 2:23 pm -      #71

    Match scenario states the mammoth tank from command and conquer. That could be either red alert or the other one. Red alert had that tank easily blown up by an apache attack chopper.

  72. Zazax May 10, 2015 at 2:26 pm -      #72

    It says it’s the Mk IV, which is the one from Tiberium Twilight, aka C&C 4.

  73. seradon May 10, 2015 at 2:34 pm -      #73

    @Pimpmage
    _
    You could argue as such if the match didn’t actually specify the Mammoth MK. IV (which is funny since the pic is from a MK.III). MK. IV Mammoths only appear in C&C IV and are so much higher in the tech ladder to the RA incarnations that comparing them is just plain unfair. The equivalent MK.1 Mammoth was considered horribly obsolete by the times of C&C 2 and could barely handle engagements against the MBTs of the era while the MK. IV is essentially designed to be the sister unit to a bloody AT-AT.

  74. pimpmage May 10, 2015 at 2:39 pm -      #74

    The picture looks just like the one from red alert. They come from two separate universes apparently. I only know of the red alert version. I didn’t notice any specifications, my bad. Through gameplay wise, the red alert tank could withstand a nuke according to gameplay.

  75. Zazax May 10, 2015 at 2:40 pm -      #75

    “while the MK. IV is essentially designed to be the sister unit to a bloody AT-AT.”
    Nah, that’s the Mastodon.

  76. seradon May 10, 2015 at 2:47 pm -      #76

    @Zazax
    _
    “Nah, that’s the Mastodon”
    The Mastodon IS the bloody AT-AT. Or the GDI equivalent anyways.

  77. Zazax May 10, 2015 at 2:52 pm -      #77

    “The Mastodon IS the bloody AT-AT. Or the GDI equivalent anyways.”
    Very true! Well played, sir!

  78. Cananatra May 10, 2015 at 4:05 pm -      #78

    “This is because the Hammerhead is designed to fight other tanks. They’d probably send crisis suits and or devilfish in. The Leman Russ is not well designed for a main battle tank. It’s really more of an assault tank, and shouldn’t be forced to fight other tanks, and instead be kept to anti-infantry or infantry support roles. The Imperium really needs a better dedicated tank that the Leman Russ and the Predator which.. I know little of except for the disdain everyone seems to have for it.”

    Way to go reaching the point I was making and not notice I was making it. The Leman Russ isn’t a dedicated tank hunter, but that doesn’t make it a bad TANK. It’s a very good close infantry support/ breakthrough tank. And while it isn’t the best tank hunter it can step into that role with a reasonable expectation of actually accomplishing something. The hammerhead on the other hand is so specialised its fucked when it has to do any other job.

    “Strategically, they rely on plot armor. They’re just a shitty tank.”

    Oh don’t be silly. Even ignore the whole ‘IoM has many forge worlds’ plot device the Leman Russ is a strategic asset. Taking two economies of equal size and you will produce over a hundred Leman Russ for every one hammerhead.

    “Oh and Cananatra. What do you think over engineered means? Because I’ve NEVER read any fluff indicating that the Hammerhead is such.”

    ‘unnecessarily complicated’. Which the Hammerhead is. Let’s take one technology shall we? It’s main gun is a rail gun. It over penetrates everything shy of necron tank analogs. They built a tank hunter which could do its job with a tenth the armament it has. Continuing with that, why a rail gun anyway? We know from the IoM that the 120mm smoothbore on the Leman Russ can combat kill any tank short of Necrons it hits too. So if they built a Hammerhead with a 120mm smoothbore and linked it to their superior fire control systems they could still kill everything the Hammerhead was designed to engage. The 120mm smoothbore is cheaper and easier to build, cheaper and easier to repair in the field and more rugged. That’s what I mean by the Hammerhead is over engineered. Hell almost every weapon the Tau have is over engineered. That’s their thing.

    “Pretty sure the major countries all have sloped armor on their MBT turrets..”

    Slope =/= rounding. Yes all modern MBTs have sloped armour, but its big flat plates of sloped armour. When you round a turret you effectively add slope in another dimension against most hits. They don’t do that anymore. The slope is also minimal in many cases now. Look at the turret cheeks of a M1A2, now look at the turret cheeks of a T62. The sloping and rounding of the tanks are becoming less pronounced with newer composite armours.

    Lifted directly from Chobham Armour.
    “Ceramic tiles draw little or no advantage from sloped armour as they lack sufficient toughness to significantly deflect heavy penetrators. Indeed, because a single glancing shot could crack many tiles, the placement of the matrix is chosen so as to optimise the chance of a perpendicular hit, a reversal of the previous desired design feature for conventional armour. Ceramic armour normally even offers better protection for a given areal density when placed perpendicularly than when placed obliquely, because the cracking propagates along the surface normal of the plate. Instead of rounded forms, the turrets of tanks using Chobham armour typically have a slab-sided appearance.”

  79. Alpha or Omega May 10, 2015 at 6:08 pm -      #79

    I meant the mark IV version.
    The picture is just not accurate.
    Me and Rookie had picked inaccurate pictures for it(I even admit in the match making thing that I picked the wrong picture for it in FPT).
    /
    Pictures aren’t the ones specifying the version, the stipulation/scenario does.

  80. Ordo11 May 10, 2015 at 6:12 pm -      #80

    Alpha is very right about that.

  81. pimpmage May 10, 2015 at 6:41 pm -      #81

    “The Leman Russ isn’t a dedicated tank hunter, but that doesn’t make it a bad TANK. ”

    If this match was meant to have a real anti tank, you should have posted this:
    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/7/70/Stormhammer0000.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130921232007

    That thing is such a beast.

  82. Neon Lord May 10, 2015 at 7:13 pm -      #82

    “It takes a single man portable missile launcher to take out a modern MBT too. man portable missiles tend to be of the same size and punch as what tanks are firing at each other. They are not in any way weak.”

    Okay. I may have a little bias against droids…

    “The issue is that the crew has to have the accuracy to actually hit something that far. As they’re trained soldiers, I assume they in fact have the ability to point and click.”

    If it were so easy, then every tank ever would have 100% accuracy, which they don’t. There are a lot of variables you have to take into account when shooting (some weapons moreso then others). The only weapons that your such example would apply to would be railguns, since their muzzle velocity and accuracy is so high. Even then, slight leading would still be needed. Energy weapons such as those of the AAT and Landmaster may also dissipate most of their destructive potential before the blast reaches 1km.

    “Well Arwing lasers fuck up buildings and battleships, so pretty powerful I’m guessing.”

    In regards to Alpha’s video of it taking out trains and boulders, there’s quite a bit of toon force/game mechanics involved it seems. Games back then didn’t really have good realism, and the usage of health bars (not visible but obviously there) for the destroyed targets kinda indicates the feat may not be accurate enough to be taken at face value. It’s like saying Zelda whacking a boss until his health bar drops to zero and he disappears into a few smotes of xp is him disintegrating the boss. Or the Mammoth completely destroying multiple base buildings far larger than itself in less than a minute. Are there any more newer showings of the Landmaster? Or something not rooted in gameplay?

    “If you think that’s the only time they’ve engaged each other, you’re mistaken.”

    It’s the only time I know of where the Hammerheads completely dominated the Leman Russ. Other times its just that Hammerhead edges out slightly. But that’s probably PIS. The Hammerhead is a superior tank by far.

    ” The hammerhead on the other hand is so specialised its fucked when it has to do any other job.”

    The Hammerhead does have anti-infantry weapons for multi-role capabilities, and the railgun becomes a rail-shotgun with submunition rounds which can be switched to on-the-fly.

  83. Sauroposeidon May 10, 2015 at 7:41 pm -      #83

    “The hammerhead on the other hand is so specialised its fucked when it has to do any other job.”

    The Hammerhead is an excellent Main Battle Tank, and can be equipped with variant turrets, just like the Leman Russ. Including Ion Cannons and the Skyray variants which use the same hull.

    It also has support machine guns mounted much more strategically. An HE round to those guns will not blast up through them and kill crew. They will when hitting a side sponson on the Leman Russ.

    They also can rotate to fire behind it. The Leman Russ, despite being an infantry support tank, can not do this with its side sponsons.

    “Taking two economies of equal size and you will produce over a hundred Leman Russ for every one hammerhead.”

    How do you even come to that? We’d have to assume that the two are also at the same technological level, and at a point that they aren’t so far ahead as to render the Hammerhead as financially cheap to build as the Leman Russ.

    The Tau are more communist than capitalist. Money isn’t an issue… so…

    “That’s what I mean by the Hammerhead is over engineered. Hell almost every weapon the Tau have is over engineered. That’s their thing.”

    Just as a reminder. They do constantly war with the Orks. You know, the guys who have shit that works because they think it should work.. You can combat kill the vehicle but as long as they believe the tank should still operate it’ll still shamble along. You rip the entire turret off, they ain’t going to think it should still fire. Hopefully.

    Their weapons grant them superior range, and they primarily fight opponents who excel at speed and close range combat. Opponents that come in swarms. Their equipment is perfect for the job.

    “Slope =/= rounding.”

    I never argued for rounding. You did. I was pointing out that sloped armor helps deflect rounds. Modern MBT’s still use it. If it didn’t help, they’d all look like the Panzer IV. It is an important feature, whether you agree with me or not, it doesn’t matter. We still use it today. Everyone still uses sloped armor.

    Considering all armor is layered today.. not sure why, that never really worked for ironclads. I think thicker armor would just be more effective. It’d just be a heavier tank.. but, I digress, as we know it’s layered thanks to the invention of Chobham, we might be able to assume that the ceramic plates are underneath, facing forward, to stop penetrating rounds, as far as the turret face is concerned.

    And we’re still at the point where the Leman Russ is not ideally suited for this kind of situation.

    Let’s just say it had ten times the fire power and armor of the Landmaster.. how is it going to keep up with it? Both it and the Mako have hover capabilities as well.

    Are you arguing that it should win? Or just that I’m being too pro-Tau and anti-Leman Russ? I mean, I know I’ve long made my disdain of the tank clear. It’s the single biggest thing that’s kept me from ever having an interest in an imperium army. But you seem to be trying to argue for merits which may have no effect in this match.

  84. Alpha or Omega May 11, 2015 at 3:23 am -      #84

    “In regards to Alpha’s video of it taking out trains and boulders, there’s quite a bit of toon force/game mechanics involved it seems. Games back then didn’t really have good realism, and the usage of health bars (not visible but obviously there) for the destroyed targets kinda indicates the feat may not be accurate enough to be taken at face value.”
    /
    The health bars are actually shielding.
    It might apply to the train flatbeds, but that might make it more impressive.
    /
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-9r9tb3OdA
    The 3D version(which came out in 2011) came out recently compared to the one on the 64, but changes the train flatbeds 1.5 times the landmaster’s size boulder’s height to three times the tank’s size.

  85. Alpha or Omega May 11, 2015 at 3:49 am -      #85

    “Even then, slight leading would still be needed. Energy weapons such as those of the AAT and Landmaster may also dissipate most of their destructive potential before the blast reaches 1km.”
    /
    Forgot to edit it in, but the energy weapons can go for a while.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLlIYs4G9KA
    Arwing’s can go at super sonic speeds(reaching mach 4.2 with boost in atmosphere), and its unupgraded charged laser can go about those speeds.
    Here, we see Falco boosting to Fox with laser fire homing on him.
    The fact that it lasts for a while means that it went pretty far. Even if we assume it’s a second(despite the fact that Falco made a few seconds to yell and needed time to catch up to Fox’s arwing going at super sonic speeds), it went for 1.4 km.
    /
    The Landmaster uses a laser cannon comparable to the Arwing’s twin laser cannons so it should have the same abilities with the exception of the tank’s cannon more powerful than two unupgraded cannons.
    /
    It only applies to the charged cannon though.
    I’m not sure if it’s the same for the smart bomb/nova bomb launcher and its uncharged blasts.

  86. Sauroposeidon May 11, 2015 at 11:01 am -      #86

    It’s been a long time since I watched Episode 1, but don’t the AAT’s engage in their bombardments at well over 1 kilometer against the Gungans? I know it’s probably difficult to argue that the lucrehulk command carriers had some kind of hyper intelligent droid brain (although I assume that to orchestrate thousands of droid soldiers and that it has to take over a portion of their thought processes for each one, that it must be vastly more intelligent than any human mind), but I don’t think it would tell the AAT’s to engage at sub-optimal ranges against the Gungans. I think we can probably assume that they can engage at over a kilometer as well. Blaster bolts don’t seem to lose much punch with range and may infact have superior range and accuracy (as I rarely if ever see spread of fire) than standard slugs/shells.

  87. Ordo11 May 11, 2015 at 11:22 am -      #87

    Depends on the source you are looking at. Star fighters I kind of understand their 2 km range on their guns, because they are fighting at high speeds and with lots of crazy maneuvering making it hard to target them, so but tanks seem to shoot farther and more accurately, but their targets are much slower and don’t maneuver as much.

  88. Sauroposeidon May 11, 2015 at 2:13 pm -      #88

    I was thinking specifically of how far away the tanks looked when they took up firing positions on high ground before the big ground battle with the Gungans. I could go see if I can find it to do rough estimates if it matters. Or if anyone can think of AAT’s engaging from further ranges, since I know they appeared in The Clone Wars and I did not watch that show very much cause.. it kinda sucked, honestly.The micro-series was far and away a better show.

  89. Friendlysociopath May 11, 2015 at 2:22 pm -      #89

    @Sauro
    Here, 0:40 is the bit you’d care about

  90. Ordo11 May 11, 2015 at 4:08 pm -      #90

    So it appears that they shoot farther than I thought. Also I just remembered this. In star fighter they can hit full speed save fighters. So they have the accuracy of the a decent anti air gun.

  91. Sauroposeidon May 11, 2015 at 5:36 pm -      #91

    I think that confirms that they have pretty decent ranges then. Which means the AAT can engage anyone it sees in this fight, pretty much.

  92. Ordo11 May 11, 2015 at 6:29 pm -      #92

    Ohh, forgot bout that game until I remembered the shooting at you. Aat could kill you in 3-4 shots so naboo starfighter with is 3-4 shots. They also took 2-3 starfighter grade laser shots to kill and took direct hits with Nimh’s fighter’s energy bomblet generator. These suckers can take heavy hits.

  93. Sauroposeidon May 11, 2015 at 7:27 pm -      #93

    So I think that we can assume that an AAT is not a piece of garbage waiting to get flattened.

    It’s main cannon is quite effective, and if for some reason crews decide to disembark and begin combat, it has a pair of turrets located out and away from the important crew compartment. It is also armed with launch tubes which are packing serious heat.

    There is a good chance that it can seriously hurt anything it looks at in this match. Either due to their slow speed and the seriousness of a full tube salvo or because its turret is accurate enough and hits hard enough to be a threat to the faster opponents.

    However, I am still leaning towards the Landmaster being the definitive winner in this free for all.

    The AAT-1 is still a little slow, and is not very maneuverable, and has basically no rear armor, compared to at least SOME rear armor or at least an engine block on most of the others. I don’t see what stops it from getting flanked unless it gets lucky.

  94. Ordo11 May 11, 2015 at 8:12 pm -      #94

    Relatively quick at turning, 180 degree turns in narrow areas in about a second. Turret with 180 degree rotation.

  95. Neon Lord May 11, 2015 at 11:47 pm -      #95

    “I think that confirms that they have pretty decent ranges then. Which means the AAT can engage anyone it sees in this fight, pretty much.”

    The guns may be able to fire their blaster cannon shots that far, but they certainly didn’t have any great amount of consistent accuracy in that video as their shots hit the shield with very wide dispersal.

    ” it has a pair of turrets located out and away from the important crew compartment.”

    I don’t think those are turrets. They look pretty fixed to me. Maybe they can tilt up and down, but definitely not across.

    ” It is also armed with launch tubes which are packing serious heat.”

    Which we have never seen them use against other vehicles in any of their engagements throughout the whole Clone Wars series and in the prequel trilogy.

  96. Neon Lord May 11, 2015 at 11:58 pm -      #96

    “The health bars are actually shielding.
    It might apply to the train flatbeds, but that might make it more impressive.”

    I meant that when the train and boulders are hit, they flash as they take damage to their ‘health’. Then they suddenly disappear when they are destroyed. That is most likely because the game maker’s had graphical limitations in showing progressive damage, or weren’t bothered to put in persistent destruction leftovers such as smashed boulder pieces, or a combination of both.

    Basically, I highly doubt that the cannon completely destroyed the boulders and train completely (i.e. the whole thing in one go without leaving destroyed remnants), but rather blew them apart progressively over multiple shots.

  97. Alpha or Omega May 12, 2015 at 12:16 am -      #97

    “I meant that when the train and boulders are hit, they flash as they take damage to their ‘health’. Then they suddenly disappear when they are destroyed. That is most likely because the game maker’s had graphical limitations in showing progressive damage, or weren’t bothered to put in persistent destruction leftovers such as smashed boulder pieces, or a combination of both.”
    “Basically, I highly doubt that the cannon completely destroyed the boulders and train completely (i.e. the whole thing in one go without leaving destroyed remnants), but rather blew them apart progressively over multiple shots.”
    /
    Nah, even for the 64, they didn’t have graphical limitation in showing progressive damage or damage leftovers.
    The same game shows how much damage an Arwing takes by losing part of its wing, have air/space craft leave some pieces remain after being destroyed(or all of it blown up), and blow up asteroids into smaller bits.
    Besides that, I posted a video of the 3DS version which is a graphical update.

  98. Zazax May 12, 2015 at 12:29 am -      #98

    “Nah, even for the 64, they didn’t have graphical limitation in showing progressive damage or damage leftovers.”
    If that’s how we’re doing this, the Mammoth can tank hits from lasers that totally vaporize (or at least explode leaving nothing behind but a crater/scorchmark) the MBTs of the era in a single shot (looking at you, Obelisk of Light), as well as multiple rockets, railgun hits, 150mm shells, and similar weapons with no discernible damage or loss of performance whatsoever.
    And also being from games (video or otherwise), I’m certain the Mako, Siege Tank, and the Leman Russ have similar, if perhaps not quite as impressive, feats.

  99. Alpha or Omega May 12, 2015 at 1:04 am -      #99

    True, they’re impressive, but how do their feats compare to what the Landmaster did?
    As posted above in the manga, a worn down Landmaster from lack of maintenance and funds survives a nova bomb explosion at point blank and plows through large base until it’s outside.
    This was a Landmaster that was attacked by a Goras before hand, so that should be accounted for.
    /
    Also, the smart bomb/nova bomb vaporized Andross and collapsed the base.

  100. Zazax May 12, 2015 at 1:39 am -      #100

    “True, they’re impressive, but how do their feats compare to what the Landmaster did?”
    I just said. The Mammoth can tank hits, with no visible damage, from lasers that vaporize entire tanks in a single shot. And then, after taking enough punishment to finally go down, its nanorepair module can get it back in working order. That’s way higher than anything even the Landmaster has.

    “As posted above in the manga, a worn down Landmaster from lack of maintenance and funds survives a nova bomb explosion at point blank and plows through large base until it’s outside.”
    And in C&C 2 a pair of old school Mammoth 1s, having been forgotten in the elements for at absolute minimum 28 years, can single-handedly (double-handedly?) plow through a significant portion of a Nod base filled with their top-of-the-line stuff. And this Mk IV is significantly better than the Mk I. What’s your point?

    “Also, the smart bomb/nova bomb vaporized Andross and collapsed the base.”
    No, it didn’t. Andross explicitly tries to ‘take Fox with him’ at the end of the fight. Presumably the giant explosion is some sort of self destruct, although whether it’s Andross himself who explodes or the base is unclear (although I will note the entire base is exploding around you as you fly out, so…). Especially since you can beat Braindross without using bombs at all (or even having any).

    I like Starfox more than most (I’ve got the 3DS re-release on my desk with me right now, as a matter of fact), but this wank is ridiculous.

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