Richard Rahl Vs Drizzt Do’Urden

Richard Rahl Vs Drizzt Do'Urden

So, here we have a battle that would most likely never take place since they are both have the same beliefs – but that’s what makes all of this fun.

If this fight was restricted to strictly swords, I think Rahl wins since he simply is more ‘in-tune’ to his weapons than Drizzt is.

And, if Rahl decided to use his magical abilities, Do’Urden wouldn’t last much longer than a few moments.

Does the most famous Drow have a chance?

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307 Comments on "Richard Rahl Vs Drizzt Do’Urden"

  1. TL December 4, 2008 at 7:12 am -      #1

    I’ve never read any books in the Sword of Truth series, therefore I’m not sure of his true powers and abilities, and information on Richard Rahl on the web is hard to find.

    That said, I believe Drizzt wins in a strict swords-only fight.

    If Richard decides to use his magic, then I’m not sure how this would turn out. Drizzt might win, barely.

  2. Matapiojo December 4, 2008 at 9:58 am -      #2

    Wow, very interesting fight. I think this is a little more evenly matched than admin realizes, but I agree with the final conclusion. Rahl wins this by the skin of his teeth.

  3. bill December 4, 2008 at 7:23 pm -      #3

    come on obi wan vs bruce lee man
    that would be awsome
    they woouldn’t fight they’re to awsome
    if they did it would destroy everything

  4. Ric December 14, 2008 at 8:22 pm -      #4

    I have read all the sword of truth books and all the legend of drizzt books… and with that being said i believe richard should win this. he has hundreds of years of sword skill experience from the hundreds of previous seekers whose knowledge suddenly gets passed on to him from the sword of truth.

    its not fair really. drizzt is probably the best skilled sword fighter in the fantasy world, but richard’s swordsmanship is supernatural in origin – accumulated sword skills of hundreds of fighters. And he didn’t even work hard for it. very unfair.

  5. Ryuboy December 19, 2008 at 4:42 pm -      #5

    yeah it really is

  6. TL December 20, 2008 at 2:10 am -      #6

    I doubt that.

    Drizzt has defeated Dow warriors, some of them weapon masters (notably Dantrag Baenre of the First House of Menzoberranzan) who are centuries older than he is. He wasn’t even 1 century old when he killed Dantrag, or most Drow for that matter.

    I still bet on Drizzt in this fight.

  7. LaSt s0n 0f KrYpToN January 4, 2009 at 9:59 pm -      #7

    im limited on this choice because i’ve only read drizzt’s books so imagining someone beating him on sword skill alone is hard to swallow in the case of magic if they fight in the underdark where drizzt can become basically invisible and still fight at peak performance i would give it to drizzt but as i said i havent read about rahl so i cant give a conclusive answer.

  8. BigGreazy January 16, 2009 at 2:03 pm -      #8

    I’ve read all of the SOT series, and most of the Drizzt books. I would only give this to Richard IF he was using two weapons. Drizzt attacks simotaneously from differnt angles with Twinkle and Icingdeath. If Richard only had his one sword, he would be in trouble.

  9. Kalidur January 20, 2009 at 10:39 pm -      #9

    Hi, I´m mexican so I Don´t write the english very well but I wrote in spanish a large tale about a imaginary fight betwen this two character. I think that the Sword of thrut is more powerful than Icingdeath or Twinkle separately. But Richard Rahl also has the “yabre” (knife of three blades), the “agiel” (just a piece of red leather whit magical powers than consisted to cause the biggest pain when touch anywhere part of the body ) and the layer from mriswith (has the properti of become invisible to the user and not even the normal wizards have the capacity to detect to the user). As well Richard have to “Gratch” the 3.4 meters of high gar of small tail that he domesticates just like Drizzt has Guenhwyvar. So the fight betwen this characters is very interesting. ¿don´t yours think?

  10. Denzana January 28, 2009 at 2:34 am -      #10

    Ok, to the comment above me, Gratch left. he’s not coming back. Richard also doesn’t have a yabre or mriswith cape. they were evil and he left them behind..

    As for who would win, I believe it would be a tie. Richard has the exp. of countless generations, but Drizzt has LIVED countless generations. and if Richard used the magic of the blade, Drizzt has Icingdeath. it stops all fire(including wizard’s fire and the angry-fire magic). that just makes The Sword of Truth a sword of the Ancients. It would be an interesting fight though. i think they would both drop from exhaustion after about 4 days of straight fighting. after that, it would be whoever woke up first :P

  11. icingdeathftw February 6, 2009 at 2:31 am -      #11

    As the comment above me points out, Icingdeath’s magic cancels out the SoT’s resulting in a contest of swordsmanship. Drizzt is a very capable fighter and is able to strike from two directions and flow effortlessly into another strike. Richard of course has generations of fighting experience, and one of his predecessors surely fought against an opponent dual wielding blades. This is a surprisingly even match, but I’m forced to say that it would be Drizzt who won. Our beloved drow seems to be a bit more perceptive than Richard. That being said I’ve only just started reading through the SoT series (where as I’m a childhood fan of Drizzt) and my opinion may change before I’m done.

  12. Naki February 10, 2009 at 5:36 pm -      #12

    You should probably rename richard rahl to richard cypher. If even one eye strays here that is watching the movies without reading the book, it will ruin ALOT of the show for them.

  13. ken February 24, 2009 at 12:07 pm -      #13

    Ive read both SoT and Drizzt, and i would honestly have to say that Drizzt would win out. Yes, Richard has an immense amount of knowledge coming direction from warriors of the past, but we have to think of the time-line in which Drizzt has been training. He’s old, he’s experienced, and he was the top of his class at Melee-Magthere. AND he lived in the Underdark for how long…

    And you can’t include Richard’s magic (positive OR negative) because, if i remember correctly, this is a fight restricted to swordsmanship. You could argue that Drizzt could use his innate ability to create a sphere of darkness, but if he knew the terms of the fight, he wouldnt use them.

    2 scimitars (very fast, fluid, balanced, and sharp to boot) vs. 1 sword (a bit slower, but has lots of magical influence over the user)

    Blade vs. Blades, speed takes the win, and thats Drizzt.

  14. Wraith March 4, 2009 at 10:59 am -      #14

    Drizz’t for the Win. Straight up sword fight, no question. Maybe the SOT guy has some experience. Drizz’t’s skills are not just based on his talent. His wit, will, guile, SPEED, adaptability, and experience at least equal to if not greater than o’l RR (Drizz’t after all has killed Drow weapon masters, Drow Wizards, human assassins and Wizards, and quite a few demons, Giants, and other things). in fact, the harder the fight, the better Drizz’t Likes it. And then there’s the Hunter. Consider Drizz’t as he is. A Masterful Scimitar wielding Drow, with amazing speed and agility. Add in a can of truly Pissed Off. O-F-F. he has been known scare the ever living crap out of people MUCH larger than himself. This includes Ogres, Giants, Artemis Entreri, barbarian leadership, and at times his own companions. This is known as his Hunter Aspect. he has been known to shear right through magical protections, magical armor and weapons, shrug off heavy, close to archmage level spells, and freeze enemies in thier tracks. One example of the Hunter aspect. in the Book, EXILE, he takes two scimitar like lengths of wooden poles and goes to show some young deep gnomes how he defeated a huge basilisk. A stone model was his target. He took the head off that stone representation with wooden POLES.

    Just my 2 cents =)

  15. kano547 March 22, 2009 at 8:41 pm -      #15

    “If this fight was restricted to strictly swords, I think Rahl wins since he simply is more ‘in-tune’ to his weapons than Drizzt is”
    no noooo and shame on you for thinking it.drizzt all the way.
    drizzt’s magic panther is conciderd a magival item therefore he is allowede to bring her into the fight. let’s see how much rightous fury helps when hes getting his face torn off, and stabbed multiple times.

  16. admin March 22, 2009 at 10:07 pm -      #16

    WARNING: FANBOY RANT ALERT!

    @kano547 –

    I love Drizzt – he’s easily one of my favorite all time characters. But, Richard would win this battle. Here is an excerpt that accurately describes 2 of his characteristics:

    “Richard cannot use his magic at will as it only comes in relation to his degree of need, or his emotions” – and the magic that comes to him is always what’s needed to win the battle – that doesn’t mean he would kill Drizzt – most likely he would try to talk him out of the fight.

    Regarding the sword skill:
    “In battle he is unparalleled, and is known to “Dance with Death”; i.e. commit himself to his feelings and call forth the knowledge of all those who wielded the Sword of Truth before him, his instincts and has resulted in his single handed defeat of 30 Baka Ban Mana Blade-Masters, or on another occasion 150 armed guards. The latter engagement was fought, not with the mighty Sword of Truth, but a simple short sword, proving that the Sword of Truth is a tool that the Seeker uses but does not make the Seeker in of itself.”

    There are links available, but that would mean I’d have to drop in a spoiler alert

    FANBOY RANT OVER

  17. AHEM June 27, 2009 at 12:50 pm -      #17

    Hmm, tough one. I’d say Rahl has the advantage of raw power here, but Drizzt could very well pull out a victory.

    In terms of sword-skills, this would be very close. Rahl has a massive amount of experience, skill, and knowledge gained from the sword, and he can access it even without the Sword of Truth in his hand. Drizzt, however, has gained a similar amount of skill but not quite as much experience on his own.

    Then there’s the matter of each fighter’s magical enhancements. Rahl, while using the Sword of Truth, can call upon the “rage” aspect of the sword, which has been observed to multiply the speed and power of his strikes. According to Zedd, a direct blow from the Sword of Truth in this state can chop a bar of iron as thick as your wrist in half, with one blow. Then there’s the “White Magic” of the sword, which by all accounts is even stronger. This could provide quite a problem for the drow.

    But then, Drizzt can slip into the Hunter aspect to become even deadlier, and he has two magical weapons of his own. Everything hinges on one question: Does Drizzt have enough advantages to cancel out or exceed the boosts of power that Rahl draws from the Sword of Truth? I haven’t read all of Drizzt’s books, so I’m not sure about the extent of Drizzt’s magical weapons and items, but it will be a tough fight, either way.

    Richard could use most of the Sword’s powers without the physical Sword of Truth itself, but even if the Seeker is the weapon and not the Sword, he’d do best to take the Sword of Truth into this battle with him. It’s unbreakable magic steel, and an ordinary blade would probably be sliced in half facing Drizzt’s double-scimitar attack.

    Rahl’s magic is probably the biggest danger to Drizzt here, but I see Drizzt as being able to cancel out most of it. One of Rahl’s main powers is Wizard’s Fire, which Drizzt is protected from. Drizzt could also plunge the battlefield into darkness, making it nearly impossible for Rahl to target him with magic and simultaneously turning the actual swordfight in his favor. I don’t think Drizzt would be able to neutralize the Sword’s magic, however. If he could, Rahl would be in deep water.

  18. AHEM July 25, 2009 at 12:05 am -      #18

    Sorry for the double post, but I’d like to bring up something I forgot: Drizzt is faster than any normal human, as a result of using magical anklets that boost his reactions. With that, added to his stronger-than-human senses, he could probably move around Rahl and stab him in the back before he could strike.

    So, I’m giving this to Drizzt by a slight margin, that is, if he isn’t bored to death by the speech that Rahl is going to throw to try to get him to join the D’Haran Empire.

  19. Pondering Fool August 5, 2009 at 10:14 pm -      #19

    I spent 6 months on this site and I never knew this match up existed…..pity my poor soul. Personally, I am inclined towards Richard, because of his ability to call on previous knowledge, but I can easily see Drizzt winning. Whoever wins this match will win by the skin of their teeth. Such a good match up.

    @ Admin
    Is te next book in the Sword of Truth Series after Faith of the Fallen is Naked Empire? Thank-you my good man!

    – pondering fool

  20. admin August 5, 2009 at 10:30 pm -      #20

    Here’s the complete list in order:

    Debt of Bones – Even though it was written in 1998, it serves as a backstory for Zedd

    1 : Wizard’s First Rule
    2 : Stone of Tears
    3 : Blood of the Fold
    4 : Temple of the Winds
    5 : Soul of the Fire
    6 : Faith of the Fallen
    7 : Pillars of Creation
    8 : Naked Empire
    9 : Chainfire
    10 : Phantom
    11 : Confessor

  21. AHEM August 9, 2009 at 5:14 pm -      #21

    “Personally, I am inclined towards Richard, because of his ability to call on previous knowledge, but I can easily see Drizzt winning. Whoever wins this match will win by the skin of their teeth. Such a good match up.”

    I’d say that Drizzt’s speed is really the deciding factor. He could easily dodge Rahl’s strikes and the magic he’ll throw. Unless Rahl can find a way to defeat him with magic despite his speed, I see Drizzt as taking this one. I’d take blinding reflexes and decent enough natural experience over ghosts in my head any day.

  22. John Anen October 22, 2009 at 4:46 pm -      #22

    Rahl takes this no problem. His magic is way too strong for Drizzt. This is basically the same as the Rand vs. Drizzt match. Rahl will just point at Drizzt and say “die” and then it’s over. Unless Drizzt is really so fast that he can stay out of Rahl’s sight until he can get a blow in, I don’t see any outcome other than Rahl wiping the floor with the drow.

  23. AHEM October 23, 2009 at 4:16 pm -      #23

    “Rahl takes this no problem. His magic is way too strong for Drizzt. This is basically the same as the Rand vs. Drizzt match. Rahl will just point at Drizzt and say “die” and then it’s over. Unless Drizzt is really so fast that he can stay out of Rahl’s sight until he can get a blow in, I don’t see any outcome other than Rahl wiping the floor with the drow.”

    And how is Rahl going to counter Drizzt’s speed? He’ll be moving too fast for Rahl to counter, at least twice as fast as a normal human, and all he’ll need to do is get around Rahl once, and then the blades are in his chest. Rahl never seems to have any constant magical shields up, so this could bea pretty big vulnerability for the drow to exploit.

  24. John Anen November 16, 2009 at 4:22 pm -      #24

    “And how is Rahl going to counter Drizzt’s speed? He’ll be moving too fast for Rahl to counter, at least twice as fast as a normal human, and all he’ll need to do is get around Rahl once, and then the blades are in his chest. Rahl never seems to have any constant magical shields up, so this could bea pretty big vulnerability for the drow to exploit.”

    I see magic as being better than superspeed. How is Drizzt going to dodge when Rahl points at him and says, “die”?

  25. AHEM November 17, 2009 at 3:30 pm -      #25

    “I see magic as being better than superspeed. How is Drizzt going to dodge when Rahl points at him and says, ‘die’?”

    Rahl’s magic isn’t all that fast. Whenever he uses his Gift, by it to throw fire or heat or lightning or subtractive magic or whatever, he still launches a projectile that has to move through the air before it hits the target. He isn’t like Rand al’Thor or Eragon Shadeslayer, who’s magic pretty much hits you the moment it’s cast.

    Drizzt has fought mages before, and his ability to dodge their magic and retaliate with his enchanted blades are what carries him to victory. So, in answer to your question, dashing around Rahl and joining Icingdeath with his enemy’s spinal column should do the trick.

  26. War Wizard November 17, 2009 at 4:13 pm -      #26

    The one constant about Rahl’s magic is that it’s *usually* based on need. While in regular instances it’s not fast enough to get Drizzt, he may set off another spell that could be instant to the touch that could get the Drow…

  27. AHEM November 18, 2009 at 4:44 pm -      #27

    “The one constant about Rahl’s magic is that it’s *usually* based on need. While in regular instances it’s not fast enough to get Drizzt, he may set off another spell that could be instant to the touch that could get the Drow…”

    A spell like that would really have come in handy when the Screeling knocked him on his ass. Or all the times that a Mord-Sith incapacitated him with an Agiel. Or when Jedidiah was moving around too quickly for him to react to with magic. Or when Pasha was charging at him with a dagger and he was too dizzy to use his normal magic. Or all the times he got cuts or minor injuries in sword fights and his magic didn’t do squat.

  28. War Wizard November 18, 2009 at 5:17 pm -      #28

    @AHEM “Or all the times he got cuts or minor injuries in sword fights and his magic didn’t do squat.”

    Don’t forget, per BankGambling debating rules, currently, Rahl is at his peak in the book series as to knowing how to use his powers. Is it possible that Zedd would teach Rahl some tricks like this for the purposes of protection? Or that Rahl himself devised his own “defense” spells?

  29. AHEM November 20, 2009 at 1:05 am -      #29

    “Don’t forget, per BankGambling debating rules, currently, Rahl is at his peak in the book series as to knowing how to use his powers. Is it possible that Zedd would teach Rahl some tricks like this for the purposes of protection? Or that Rahl himself devised his own “defense” spells?”

    I’ll accept that he’ll be able to use his magic consciously without being restricted in some way(which seems to happen a lot in the series), but I still don’t see how he would suddenly demonstrate defensive spells that have never been seen in the series.

    Though he wants to I’m sure, Zedd has never really sat Richard down and taught him anything about magic, let alone taught him specific defense spells. Rahl tends to fight riskily, really; in quite a few of the incidents I mentioned above, he had access to his magic but still wasn’t invincible by any means.

  30. Cyclonemjg December 16, 2009 at 12:13 pm -      #30

    Though he wants to I’m sure, Zedd has never really sat Richard down and taught him anything about magic, let alone taught him specific defense spells.

    Thats because Richard is a War Wizard with both addative and subtractive magic that Zedd doesn’t know how to even begin to explain because their magic works differently. It is not even explainable by Nathan Rahl who’s been alive for 1000 years and did try and teach Richard to use his gift. They got NOWHERE. In my opinion the two would be so evenly matched that it would be the first to make a mistake from pure exhaustion after HOURS maybe DAYS of fighting. They would be too evenly matched to say one over the other, but I’ve read Drizzt longer and I’m in his corner. :) I know that it is a hands down draw except for a biased fans opinion. But I have read all of both series and Drizzt not only has the superhuman dexterity but the monsters he has fought are WAY more dangerous and deadly than the ones Richard faced. Dragons, demons, GODS, orcs trolls, giants, etc.,etc. and the list goes on for a WHILE. Drizzt RULEZ! :)

  31. AHEM December 16, 2009 at 1:20 pm -      #31

    “Thats because Richard is a War Wizard with both addative and subtractive magic that Zedd doesn’t know how to even begin to explain because their magic works differently. It is not even explainable by Nathan Rahl who’s been alive for 1000 years and did try and teach Richard to use his gift. They got NOWHERE.”

    Nathan did manage to make some small progress with Richard in the second book, and during the exercise Richard was even able to create and sustain a small amount of Wizard’s Fire. Nathan commented that it would have taken him +100 years to learn even that small bit from a sorceress such as the Sisters of the Light.

  32. John Anen December 16, 2009 at 1:24 pm -      #32

    “I know that it is a hands down draw except for a biased fans opinion. But I have read all of both series and Drizzt not only has the superhuman dexterity but the monsters he has fought are WAY more dangerous and deadly than the ones Richard faced. Dragons, demons, GODS, orcs trolls, giants, etc.,etc. and the list goes on for a WHILE.”

    Are you kidding me?

    Rahl has fought dragons, gars, wizards with both additive and subtractive power, sorcerers, beings protected from all harm by the divine power of Orden, heart hounds, creatures of the Underworld, the Sisters of the Dark, Mriswith, the Mriswith Queen, deadly plagues, telepaths, former Seekers, Mord-Sith, humans twisted into monsters, etc. His resume is every bit as impressive as Drizzt’s, if not more so.

  33. AHEM December 22, 2009 at 2:46 pm -      #33

    This match might ultimately be decided by how much control Rahl has over his magic at the moment. He isn’t particularly knowledgeable, skilled, or experienced when it comes to magic, but if he could get it working at full strength, he could likely unleash attacks faster than Drizzt can avoid. However, if he is only able to manage a rough control or is limited to his sworded techinques, Drizzt will likely go around him with his superior foot speed and backstab him.

  34. ss December 22, 2009 at 4:55 pm -      #34

    @john
    most of those just seem to be magice weilding humans, so u really dont need 2 repeat them over and over
    im for drizzt here, lets see richard fight blind

  35. John Anen December 24, 2009 at 2:18 pm -      #35

    “most of those just seem to be magice weilding humans, so u really dont need 2 repeat them over and over”

    Different types of people use different types of magic and powers in the SoT. There’s a big difference between fighting an ordinary wizard and fighting a Sister of the Dark, and Richard has done both.

    “im for drizzt here, lets see richard fight blind”

    He fought and killed a Blood Beast in the pits of the Underworld itself, surrounded by dark magic and shadows that no human eye could penetrate. I don’t think a little darkness spell is going to intimidate the Seeker too much.

  36. Drayflare December 31, 2009 at 4:27 pm -      #36

    I haven’t read the SOT series, but Rahl is in for a beat-down. Drizzt has the two magical scimitars, IcingDeath and Twinkle. But… It has been said that Drizzt moves those two swords faster than the eye can see. Oh, and look at this, straight from Wikipedia…. “Drow are highly resistant to magic,” So, Rahl’s magic won’t ‘obliterate’ him as some said.If Drizzt can beat up a stone statue with wooden poles….

  37. John Anen January 2, 2010 at 1:57 pm -      #37

    “’Drow are highly resistant to magic,’ So, Rahl’s magic won’t ‘obliterate’ him as some said.If Drizzt can beat up a stone statue with wooden poles….”

    I read some of the Drizzt novels, and the dark elves seem to be affected by magic just fine. If they were immune or something, there would be no place for wizards in Drow society except to fight surface people. In any case, “resistant to” does not equal “impervious to.” Just because Drizzt gets a +7/10 to magic resistance instead of a +5/10 or however that’s figured in, it won’t save him when Rahl hits him with enough power to kill several thousand times over.

  38. ss January 5, 2010 at 1:39 pm -      #38

    @john
    i did not know that particular fact, that definately give him more of a chance than i thought, but how often has he fought blind? i just think drizzt has more experience here and i really think they are quite equal in sword play

  39. John Anen January 5, 2010 at 2:43 pm -      #39

    “i did not know that particular fact, that definately give him more of a chance than i thought, but how often has he fought blind? i just think drizzt has more experience here and i really think they are quite equal in sword play”

    Richard was a woodsman before he became the Seeker, and he became very accustomed to acting in and sneaking around during darkness. He even stated at one point in the second book that darkness was “his element.” There are also several situations where he fights at night or without light. I just mentioned one of the more impressive examples.

    I guess Drizzt would have more experience with it since he uses it regularly to turn the fight to his advantage, and he could probably hold his own against Rahl in a sword fight, but I don’t think either of those factors will decide this fight; it will be Rahl’s army-crushing magic that will.

  40. AHEM January 6, 2010 at 8:11 pm -      #40

    “I guess Drizzt would have more experience with it since he uses it regularly to turn the fight to his advantage, and he could probably hold his own against Rahl in a sword fight, but I don’t think either of those factors will decide this fight; it will be Rahl’s army-crushing magic that will.”

    I have to agree with this point. Rahl’s magic would be the wildcard that could give him the win. He’s demonstrated some pretty extreme magics when his gets his power working. For Drizzt to win, I think his strategy would have to be to outmaneuver Rahl and strike from behind before he could land a solid hit.

  41. ss January 11, 2010 at 11:12 pm -      #41

    hmm yes that seems to be the case

  42. AHEM January 12, 2010 at 12:21 am -      #42

    It might depend on how much control Rahl has of his magic at the time, whether he is in a pre-training state, has managed some rough control, is angry/needful enough to use it consciously, etc. It also may hinge on how much time Drizzt will give him to react. If the Drow catches him by surprise, ambushes him, or charges in immediately before Richard can get an idea of what he’s fighting and to use his magic, he would take the advantage. However, the longer the introductory blows last, the more the scales tllt in Richard’s favor.

  43. UKScott January 12, 2010 at 10:47 am -      #43

    hmmm i was leaning towards drizzt for his elvish speed and dexterity, before i saw there were a lot more RR books so i’ll have to read them to see how he develops then give an answer

  44. AHEM January 12, 2010 at 9:56 pm -      #44

    Drizzt is only a little faster and more agile than a peak human athlete. Most of his speed advantage comes from his anklets of speed, which allow him footspeed about twice as fast as normal.

  45. Mazrim January 30, 2010 at 3:11 pm -      #45

    Richard Rahl wins. In a fair swordfight with no magic, the Drow’s superior speed may match Richard’s millenia of experience, and it may not.

    But bring in magic, and the Drow will die. Perhaps his swords will block Wizard’s Fire, despite the fact they are more than just fire. But Richard could also send Drizzt to the Underworld, blast him with Additive and Subtractive Lightning, or immobilize him with Air hardened to cement and then run the Sword of Truth through his chest….

  46. Mac March 18, 2010 at 9:48 am -      #46

    I am not sure i am sure dritzz in a weapon master which means he can hit vital spot more often infact 6 out of 20 hits will be on a vital spot and if i am right dritzz is a drow of at least 18the level or more meaning he have magic resistance of 86% or SR:28 dont know how that translate sory and i guess he still have those draw ability like darkness fiery fire and stuff i dont think richard can have a sure win but it would be an interesting fight with each equally capable of killing one another

  47. aceofqueens June 4, 2010 at 10:32 pm -      #47

    I’ve been looking at the match ups on this site for a while now, and haven’t ever come across this one, actually. This is probably due to the fact that I never would have thought about a fight occuring between these two, simply because it’s so obvious who would emerge victorious: Drizzt Do’Urden. Richard Rahl has absolutely NO CHANCE of killing Drizzt.

    Before I continue I want all of you to know that I’m not here to flame or put people down. I just want to point out the facts and explain why I know Drizzt would masacre Richard. If you disagree, fine: sit there in your wrongness and be wrong. I dont really care.

    Now, first of all, there is the issue of Richard’s “magic.” As mazrim said :”…But bring in magic, and the Drow will die. Perhaps his swords will block Wizard’s Fire, despite the fact they are more than just fire. But Richard could also send Drizzt to the Underworld, blast him with Additive and Subtractive Lightning, or immobilize him with Air hardened to cement and then run the Sword of Truth through his chest….”

    Ok little guy, I’m stopping you right there. All I have to say to that is this: WHAT MAGIC?

    No, honestly, I’m confused. Since when does Richard get to use his magic to defend himself? He’s fought plenty of batttles in which his life was very much on the line and in which he certainly had great need, but he didn’t get to use spells against his enemies. Examples:
    -When he fought the gars in the first book.
    -when the Denna tortured him in the first book. At that time he was DEFINATELY in DIRE NEED and ANGER…but oops…no magic!? “Duh…how’d that happen?”
    -fighting the mriswith in book three

    Oh and also there is the time when Nicci uses the maternity spell on Kahlan. If seeing that done to his wife didn’t give him enough need and or anger, then nothing will. ever.

    Let’s face it fellow Facts: Richard Rahl’s war wizard abilities are nothing but a pathetic attempt at a plot device by Terry Goodkind.

    In addition to what I stated above, there are some other things that we know:
    -he does not have the ability to use his magic at will
    -he hasn’t ever recieved training
    -his creativity is limited to lightning bolts. ooh Tough luck Drizzt bro, it’s not like you dodge lighnting all time…

    oh, and not to mention his innate Drow magic resistantce, which at his approx. level is pretty d*mn high.

    Point being: Ricahrd = no magic :(

    It’s ok Richard, you can still beat him at melee combat right? Wrong. DEAD wrong, emphasis on DEAD.

    Richard’s Dance of Death doesn’t really have any exact rules attached to it. It’s more of a plot device. In any case, however way you look at it, Richard most likely wouldn’t just be able to enter his Dance of Death at will.

    But for arguement’s sake, lets say Richard DOES enter his Dance of Death. In this state he is in possession of all the previous seeker’s cambat experience.

    Unfortunately for Lord Rahl, Drizzt can easily more than stack up to Richard. Drizzt has about a century of combat experience, however, with this accumulation of skill he beat Dantrag Baenre, a drow weapons master with several more centuries of experience than himself. In addition, Dantrag was using bracers that made his hands move even faster, as if in a blur. Don’t forget that Dantrag weilded Khazid Hea, which cut through any material just as the Sword of Truth does. Despite all of these things, Drizzt beat him.

    What I’m saying is that in the very least, Drizzt matches Richard in skill. This doesn’t mean Richard has a chance of killing Drizzt, however. I haven’t even talked about how Drizzt would be moving much faster than Richard. His hands would be faster, his footwork quicker, EVERYTHING. And the sword of truth’s magical augmentations wouldn’t save Richard. Drizzt defeated Khazid Hea, which has the same enhancement as the Sword of Truth, not once, but TWICE!

    Let’s not forget the faerie fire and globes of darkness.

    And Taulmaril the Heartseeker. Drizzt could just run around or hide all day and pop unending arrows at Richard. I’d like to see him try to catch THOSE arrows.

    It is plain and simple: Drizzt defeats Richard at every turn, and sometimes for many reasons. Plain and simple.

    Not to mention Drizzt could easily outmatch Richard in philosophy and mind-games AS he toys with Lord Rahl.

  48. aceofqueens June 4, 2010 at 10:51 pm -      #48

    Richard wouldn’t last a week in Drizzt’s world. The monsters and enemies Drizzt had faced would squah Richard like a bug. He wouldn’t last five seconds against Ertu and the assortment of demons Drizzt has slain. Being *in tune* or whatever with your weapons doesn’t count for jack squat when your opponent actually FIGHTS BETTER. What does “in tune” with your weapons mean anyway?

    What it comes down to is who has the will, passion, and drive to become a master at what they do. Richard was gifted his abilities: they are supernatural in nature. Even if Richard COULD somehow concievably kill Drizzt, I would respect Drizzt more. He has been training for decades. He grew up in Menzoberanzan. He had one of the hardest childhoods possible. He has been beaten and tortured far more than Richard. He had the courage to run away and eventually return to Menzoberanzan. This guy has got some serious BALLS.

    Drizzt Do’Urden is one B.A.M.F and has more than earned the right to be called a master.

    He represents everything that a good fighter needs to be.

    Truly, he IS the Deadliest Warrior.

  49. aceofqueens June 15, 2010 at 6:33 pm -      #49

    so sorry about the triple post, but I had to add some stuff.

    We don’t even know that the Sword of Truth will slice through Drizzt’s scimitars. Drizzt’s swords are magical in nature and were able to withstand athrogate’s disintegrating/rusting solution wich is designed to corode your weapons. Even if the swords power affects Drizzt’s blades, I highly doubt they’ll completely blast through it. Once Drizzt realises what the sword of truth does to his weapons, he’ll back off and methodically defeat Richard’s blade as if Richard were Tos’un using Kahzid hea.

    the other thing is that If Richard is allowed to use the dance of death, then Drizzt gets to take on the hunter aspect of his mind, which will add on even MORE deadliness to his superior speed and skill. It’s only fair because if Richard gets to function as if Kahlan is in danger or something, then Drizzt gets to function like Catti-Brie is in danger or something. And we all know that if the dance of death isn’t used, Richard is an average dude with little skill, which makes him defenceless against the legendary Drizzt Do’Urden

  50. Andrew Merklin July 6, 2010 at 10:34 pm -      #50

    Because of Drittz’s speed, surpassing everything Richard has, he would most definitely take this one. Richard has gained centuries of prior knowledge from Seekers dead, but how will that help him against an enemy that is speed itself? And I agree with AHEM: Richard wouldn’t be able to cast his subtractive magic that fast. Sure Rand (sorry about bringing Wheel of Time into this, but it is relevant) would be able to balefire Drittz out of existance before Drittz could say drow, but Richard just doesn’t have fast magic like that. Bottom line: the dark elf takes this fight.

  51. CJDL July 18, 2010 at 2:39 am -      #51

    Okay so I’ve read both of these series and I’m pretty sure that neither of them could win. They’re both ridiculously good. They would fight until they both died of exhaustion. That said, before Richard gained the power of the hundreds of Seekers before him… he would get raped by Drizzt in an instant.

  52. AHEM July 24, 2010 at 9:42 pm -      #52

    “No, honestly, I’m confused. Since when does Richard get to use his magic to defend himself? He’s fought plenty of batttles in which his life was very much on the line and in which he certainly had great need, but he didn’t get to use spells against his enemies. Examples:
    -When he fought the gars in the first book.
    -when the Denna tortured him in the first book. At that time he was DEFINATELY in DIRE NEED and ANGER…but oops…no magic!? “Duh…how’d that happen?”
    -fighting the mriswith in book three

    “Oh and also there is the time when Nicci uses the maternity spell on Kahlan. If seeing that done to his wife didn’t give him enough need and or anger, then nothing will. ever.

    “Let’s face it fellow Facts: Richard Rahl’s war wizard abilities are nothing but a pathetic attempt at a plot device by Terry Goodkind.”

    You make some good points. Magic is pretty much a plot device in the SoT, especially considering how many Deus Ex Machinas Richard pulls off whenever he is in terminal trouble and suddenly is able to use his magic effectively. However, there are a couple of things to consider in the examples you cited.

    -When he was captured by Denna, Richard didn’t even know that he had magic, and certainly didn’t know how to use it. It also would have been a pretty stupid move to make, as Denna was immune to magic and was holding Richard in a metaphysical death grip using the power of the Sword of Truth against him. Using his war wizard’s magic against her would only have tightened her hold on him. Same case with the gars; Richard wasn’t even told that he had the gift until the second book.

    -When Nicci put Kahlan under the Maternity Spell, Richard recognized right away that harming Nicci would have killed Kahlan. He deliberately didn’t attack her, because of that, and told his bodyguard not to do so either. On other occasions, Richard has consistently shown himself able to use magic when Kahlan is threatened, such as when she was kidnapped by Oba. On that occasion, he killed over a thousand men with a single spell.

    -Richard does not need to “enter the dance with death.” Now that he’s called the spirits once, he has all of their knowledge stored in his head, and he practices the sword forms he learned from them even when he doesn’t have the Sword of Truth. Once, in the tenth book, Richard was caught without the Sword of Truth, and he unleashed his fury with a simple unenchanted steel blade and slaughtered his way through an entire batallion of Imperial Order soldiers and nearly escaped a castle full of enemies before he was recaptured. The IO commander there was so impressed with his skill that he decided not to execute him and instead recruited him unto his blood sport team.

    I agree that Richard’s magic is unreliable, but I don’t think it’s any more fair to assume he won’t have it at all in this fight than to assume he’ll automatically be able to control it. He has shown some truly powerful and impressive spells, from fire to lightning to destroying a series of milennia-old towers to healing. If he does somehow unleash his magic in this fight, which he may or may not do, Drizzt may be in trouble. He has resistences to magic, yes, but those would make little difference when Richard’s attacks are strong enough to kill +1000 men at once. He’d need to avoid them, which I think he probably could.

    “We don’t even know that the Sword of Truth will slice through Drizzt’s scimitars. Drizzt’s swords are magical in nature and were able to withstand athrogate’s disintegrating/rusting solution wich is designed to corode your weapons. Even if the swords power affects Drizzt’s blades, I highly doubt they’ll completely blast through it. Once Drizzt realises what the sword of truth does to his weapons, he’ll back off and methodically defeat Richard’s blade as if Richard were Tos’un using Kahzid hea.”

    I would argue that it is pretty clear that the Sword of Truth is unlikely to cut through Drizzt’s scimitars. The only time Richard has actually faced an opponent with an enchanted blade, rather than an ordinary metal sword, it withstood the blows of the Sword of Truth just fine.(This happened towards the end of the second book, Stone of Tears.)

  53. aceofqueens July 25, 2010 at 11:53 am -      #53

    “-When Nicci put Kahlan under the Maternity Spell, Richard recognized right away that harming Nicci would have killed Kahlan. He deliberately didn’t attack her, because of that, and told his bodyguard not to do so either. On other occasions, Richard has consistently shown himself able to use magic when Kahlan is threatened, such as when she was kidnapped by Oba. On that occasion, he killed over a thousand men with a single spell.”

    Richard could have done a number of things with his magic in that situation. He could have dispelled the magic link straight away, or mind controlled Nicci and made her dispel it, then kill herself. Nicci wouldn’t have been able to defend herself from a mind control spell from Richard because the link with Kahlan consumes all of her magic. My point was that if his war wizard abilities functioned as they should, he should have had enough anger and need to do something, preferably one of those things.

  54. AHEM July 25, 2010 at 9:40 pm -      #54

    “Richard could have done a number of things with his magic in that situation. He could have dispelled the magic link straight away, or mind controlled Nicci and made her dispel it, then kill herself. Nicci wouldn’t have been able to defend herself from a mind control spell from Richard because the link with Kahlan consumes all of her magic. My point was that if his war wizard abilities functioned as they should, he should have had enough anger and need to do something, preferably one of those things.”

    The only way to end a Maternity spell is for the one who cast it to willingly end the spell while in the presence of the target. Richard attempting to sever the cord without Nicci’s consent would have probably resulted in both their deaths, or at the least, just Kahlan’s. Richard, being as relatively untrained as he was, would have been very stupid to try to tamper with Nicci’s magic in desperation like that.

    No wizard in the SoT series has ever displayed mind control powers; only Dreamwalkers, Witch Women (limited and temporary), and Confessors have, and Richard isn’t one of those, and hasn’t ever used any sort of similar spell in the entire series. Besides, at the point where she cast the Maternity spell, Nicci was also using a loophole in the terms of an ancient magic to grant herself the protection of the Rahl Bond, and had immunalized herself to any alien magical presence entering her mind; even Jagang the Dreamwalker found himself unable to penetrate her mind. She didn’t need to use her Han to maintain this protection, and kept it even when the Maternity spell was up and running. At this point, mind controlling Nicci would have been flat out impossible.

    Richard also knew, and he stated this himself, that using any sort of powerful spell or mind control on Nicci, even if it worked, could very likely have caused unknowable consequences to Kahlan, who was connected to her through the Maternity spell and thus feeling everything that happened to Nicci, magical or mundane.

    Richard didn’t really have a lot of options at that point, because even if he could have used his magic, the life of his beloved was hanging in the balance and could be severed at any moment. Nicci could have killed Kahlan with a flick of her thoughts if she wanted to, and probably would have if RIchard had tried to dissolve the Maternity spell somehow.

  55. aceofqueens August 1, 2010 at 1:45 am -      #55

    “-Richard does not need to “enter the dance with death.” Now that he’s called the spirits once, he has all of their knowledge stored in his head, and he practices the sword forms he learned from them even when he doesn’t have the Sword of Truth. Once, in the tenth book, Richard was caught without the Sword of Truth, and he unleashed his fury with a simple unenchanted steel blade and slaughtered his way through an entire batallion of Imperial Order soldiers and nearly escaped a castle full of enemies before he was recaptured. The IO commander there was so impressed with his skill that he decided not to execute him and instead recruited him unto his blood sport team.”

    Ahhh… I must have misunderstood…

    Ok. So Rahl will automatically have all of the previous Seeker’s xp. However, I still think Drizzt would beat him in a swordfight.

    Richard, while he may be extremely skilled, and have the centuries of blade experience and all, isn’t nowhere near as fast, or dexterous, or creative, or cunning, or as agile as Drizzt.

    Richard was gifted his abilities. He was suddenly burdened with centuries of combat experience, without earning it himself. Remember Thorn in Eldest? Thorn was enchanted by Galbatorix to become supernaturally large and stronger, and ended up being stronger and faster than he should have been for his age. He was gifted his abilities, and thus never actually earned them. He didn’t know what to do with his body, and because of this he lost to Saphira. If he had grown naturally, he would have slowly learned his strengths and weaknessess and gained experience. He would have leanred how to manuver and fight better. This also would have saved him so much confusion.

    The same basic principal applies to Lord Rahl. His centuries of sword fighting experience were thrust upon him. If he had acquired his blade skill naturally, with hard work and practice, he would have learned speed, and agility, and creativity. He may have more years of experience than Drizzt, but he hasn’t actually TRAINED for 100 years like Drizzt has. Therefore, Richard is slower and doesn’t have the muscles and physique Drizzt has.

    Drizzt however, gained his skill all naturally. He knows how to channel it and use it more creatively. He’s actually been fighting for a longer time than Richard and as a result has better judgment in combat.

    Not to mention Drizzt is extremely cunning and creative. Once, when he was but a boy, he dueled his sword trainer. He not only beat his own trainer, who had several hundred years of experience, but he beat him by inventing a new move that thousands of drow before him had not thought up. If you’ve ever read the Drizzt books, even just one, you’ll know he’s exceedingly cunning and creative. It is because of this he can take on a foe much more powerful than himself.

    Drizzt was also born with superhuman speed and agility and all that sort of thing, because he is a drow. Then, he did grueling training as a boy in the drow city. You go and read my Eragon vs. Drizzt posts, you’ll see what kind of intense, unique training he had as a youngster. This resulted in him being more disciplined and more focused. He has been fighting and training for a near century, and thus has improved his agility, dodging, reflexes, etc. beyond superhuman. He has excellent acrobatics, and uses them to flip like a ninja or run up a wall, or run up a frost giants leg in the blink of an eye.

    Whereas Richard is just a decent woods guide. He doesn’t have special speed or anything. He may know an infinite number of moves and techniques, but he hasn’t put them to use for a hundred years like Drizzt has. He may know the moves, but it counts for nothing when Drizzt executes his moves faster and dodges quicker. Don’t forget, Drizzt can dodge lightning, sometimes it just barely nicks him. Can Richard do that?

    Richard may have a magic sword, but Drizzt has two magic swords. I don’t think people use two swords at once in SoT world. Therefore, it’s pretty logical to assume Richard has no experiences from previous Seekers involving fighting an opponent using two swords at once. He’s at a disadvantage. He’ll be expending so much more energy than Drizzt trying to block two swords (that travel faster than the blink of a drow eye) at once. He won’t even get a swing in. It hardly matters if the Sword of Truth can cut through Drizzt’s scimitars. Drizzt will wear him out, if he doesn’t chop him to bits first.

    Notable feats of Drizzt:
    -killing a demon who had a sword in all of her half dozen hands

    -Drizzt was once hit with Drow numbing poison. This poison paralyzes it’s victims. However, Drizzt in his hunter mindset was so full of anger and willpower he resisted paralysis and attacked. However, he WAS moving slower and he had dropped one of his swords. Drizzt was so weak the only reason he was standing was because he leaned on a wall. A drow much like drizzt moved in to strike and, Drizzt with one sword, was able to fend him off. Drizzt had one sword against two! He overcame all odds and fended off the drow until he could pick up his second sword. Then another foe swooped in. Drizzt was outnumbered two to one by enemies, and he had just been hit with numbing poison. His creativity and inventiveness won the day, as he made moves nobody had even though possible.
    He slew both enemies and this was without the use of Guenwhyvar, his magic panther.

    -He beat a drow weapons master with several times his fighting experience and who was also wearing speed enhancing bracers and was using a sword that cuts through ANYTHING, even invincible armour. Drizzt won and claimed the anklets, multiplying his speed even more.

    -Once a woman hell-bent on killing Drizzt stalked him across the world. She was a specialist who studied Drizzt’s tactics and knew everything about him. She took a potion of speed and earth strength and a potion that made her surrounded by a wall of fire and Drizzt beat her.
    -Drizzt lived alone in the underdark for many years, away from the cities, a feat considered to be impossible.
    -He slew an earth elemental solo, another feat thought to be impossible.
    -Drizzt is so unbeatable; he is thought to be secretly a chosen of Lloth, the evil and all powerful spider-goddess of chaos.
    The list goes on and on, so I’m not going to write them all because it takes up to much space and time.
    Don’t forget Drizzt has darkness globes. He knows how to fight blind, but Richard doesn’t. While Drizzt was specially trained for it.
    Drizzt has been a ranger for longer than Richard has been alive, and Drizzt knows the land better. Drizzt was also trained in stealth and has been practicing it for a hundred years. Whereas Richard doesn’t have that much stealth experience. Drizzt would clearly win in a Cat n mouse game. Oh and don’t forget Drizzt can outline Richard in faerie fire, making him easily spotted in a stealth battle.
    In ranged combat Drizzt would still win because he has Taulmaril. I’d like to see Richard catch THOSE arrows.
    My next post will be on Richard’s magic.

  56. aceofqueens August 1, 2010 at 2:04 am -      #56

    “I agree that Richard’s magic is unreliable, but I don’t think it’s any more fair to assume he won’t have it at all in this fight than to assume he’ll automatically be able to control it. He has shown some truly powerful and impressive spells, from fire to lightning to destroying a series of milennia-old towers to healing. If he does somehow unleash his magic in this fight, which he may or may not do, Drizzt may be in trouble. He has resistences to magic, yes, but those would make little difference when Richard’s attacks are strong enough to kill +1000 men at once. He’d need to avoid them, which I think he probably could.”

    I think it’s totally fair to assume he won’t be able to use any magic. Supposedly he gets the ability to use magic when he’s really angry, or needful or desperate. And supposedly he’s supposed to get exactly what he needs. There are plenty of times throughout the series where Richard’s life is at stake, may fights he gets into where he’s very much angry or needful.
    Gee, his war-wizard magic would have come in a lot of handy when he let Kahlan stab him in Faith of the Fallen. He suffered a gruesome, painful stomach wound and lay gasping for air, dying on the floor. However no healing magic leapt to his fingers. If being moments away from death isn’t needy, I’m not sure what is.
    Besides, most of the time all Richard seems to get is lightning. Drizzt has shown the ability to evade lightning, sometimes just barely being clipped by it, but he has enough magic resistance to make a clip from lightning inconsequential. If Richard receives some Wizard Fire, he’s even more out of luck. Drizzt has Icingdeath, which protects him from demon and magic fire. And he still has his drow magic resist.
    Richard can’t consciously control his magic. Even if he was clever enough to invent a spell that could hurt Drizzt, he wouldn’t be able to use it because he doesn’t control what he gets.
    Terry Goodkind is the one who controls Lord Rahl’s magic, not Richard himself. All Terry does with Richard’s magic is make plot devices and plot armour. Terry doesn’t play by his own rules and if Richard’s magic worked the way Terry says it should, then Richard would have killed all of his enemies in an instant. I mean, come on, just how overpowered is this guy? He took out thousands of D’Haran soldiers at once in the second novel.
    I would rather have Drizzt’s talent, speed, and skill, something tangible and real than being able to say “I’m needy give me magic!”

  57. Tal August 5, 2010 at 2:30 pm -      #57

    Something else to consider is that Richard is, in addition to being a competitive blademaster to Drizzt…just a lot bigger. Richard’s, what, about six one, six two, fairly built? Whereas Drizzt is, according to R.A., a few inches over five feet, and slim.

    What’s to stop Rahl from just hammering Drizzt across the room with the drow unable to reach his torso or effectively block his two-handed strokes, at least power to power (ah, here the perils of dual-wielding come to the fore…)? I mean, yeah, he could try the ghost-step, but Rahl is a lot faster than a brute like Wulfgar, so how much time is a single arm passing in front of a single eye really going to give him…?

  58. Mike August 6, 2010 at 1:45 am -      #58

    has everyone forgot that Richard’s sword would shatter Drizzt’s on first contact? much less by the end of the SOT series Richard basically became a god? Richard wins. Love ya Drizzt, but Richard is in a whole different catagory.

  59. Mike August 6, 2010 at 1:47 am -      #59

    i’ve made both in my D&D campains though

  60. Mike August 6, 2010 at 2:08 am -      #60

    oh, and from what i’ve read on here “ahem” apparently scans books and doesn’t read them, because he has been wrong about alot in the sot series and sounds like a moron

  61. extragoodchi August 14, 2010 at 11:22 am -      #61

    If we are going to take these two characters at their prime moments of power for this match-up then Richard Rahl would have to win as his most powerful moment in time is when he has the power of Orden.. which is absolute control over the known universe… you can’t really stab that no matter how fast the drow can be.

  62. aceofqueens August 16, 2010 at 2:04 am -      #62

    Heh heh. Drizzt wins. Tal and Mike, You obviously haven’t read my posts, because you have no idea what your talking about. That or you REALLY don’t like logic.

  63. aceofqueens August 16, 2010 at 2:05 am -      #63

    I can’t give the victory to the guy that loses his sword half the time and gets constantly raped and has to be rescued.

  64. Mike August 16, 2010 at 6:58 am -      #64

    “aceofqueens” you seem to be making these two fight at what ever timeline you want in their respective stories. of course drizzt would win if he fought richard before he mastered all his powers and sword. same way richard as a woods guide would slaughter drizzt in his baby crib. if they fight at their best, well as extragoodchi put it, richard controls the whole universe.

  65. aceofqueens August 18, 2010 at 2:14 am -      #65

    I think that setting the fight up so that we use richard when had control of the whole universe would be a tad bit unfair. Also, don’t forget the Richard surrendered the power of orden. Even if he could bring it against the drow, Drizzt can still sneak up on him and end his life via back stab or by using taulmaril. Also, to be unbaised, the fight would have to take place on a between universes kind of place somewhere out of both of their respective universes, thus Richard wouldn’t be able to affect Drizzt because he only controls the SoT world with his god-like powers.

    Drizzt is mercilessly cunning and creative. He can use the environment to his advantage. He typically goes up against stronger foes and wins. Put him against a stronger foe in a bad situation with little resources and the drow will succeed.

    Rahl however, was gifted his abilities. He may know more sword techniques than Drizzt, but Drizzt has been practicing his fighting for far longer than Richard and has worked hard, and because of this has received stronger muscles, faster movements, and quicker agility. Not to mention Drizzt wears magic speed enhancing anklets and can make darkness globes and can fight in them perfectly well.

    Rahl’s magic would have been useful when the mriswith attacked him, or the screeling knocked him over, or when kahlan stabbed him and he was dying.

    Rahl needed god-like powers to defeat his foes. He spends more time talking than actually doing. I stopped reading because he spent whole chapters speaking to a tribe of indians. Drizzt on the other hand, gets up and does crap. he goes out and achieves. Drizzt has spent his life talking down demons, wreaking havoc among orc ranks, battling dragons, and single-handedly defeating a horde of shadow creatures.

    BTW, if Richard tried to kill Drizzt while he was a baby, Rahl wouldn’t be able to kill Drizzt’s mother, malice Do’Urden, while she was giving birth to him.

    You seem to think that because Richard has more experience in the swordplay, he will win. Just because somebody has greater experience, doesn’t ensure victory. Drizzt has proven this himself multiple times, such as when he beat Dantrag Baenre, a drow weapons master with more experience and speed enhancing anklets. Don’t forget that Artemis Enteri was almost as good as Drizzt at fighting despite the fact that Drizzt had for more fighting experience, since Drizzt was near to 100 and enteri just a human.

  66. Mike August 18, 2010 at 11:36 am -      #66

    i never once mentioned experience in swordplay, don’t put words in my mouth. and “Making a fight fair” has nothing to do with who would win in a fight, i’m sure Poland would have loved that rule at the begining of the nazi march across Europe. none the less weather he gave up his power of orden he still had control over his han at the end. and for the whole he can’t fight in the dark thing apparently you don’t remember the third book “Blood of the Fold” where he fights the mriswith and slaughters many of them in one fight while they are all invisible. he could just sense where they were, same as he would with drizzt. now for the sword fighting thing, just because someone was “gifted” the knowledge doesn’t make it any less tangible in a fight. because of it he does have more experience, about 3000 years more experience. and drizzts accomplishments over creatures is actually about the same, in my opinion, as Richards. and seriously what ever happened to the sword of truth shattering drizzts swords huh? nothing about drizzts swords would indicate that they wouldn’t shatter. and if you don’t like the dialog in the book then fine, don’t read it. has nothing to do with a fight though, it’s off the subject and sounds desperate.

  67. aceofqueens August 21, 2010 at 12:03 am -      #67

    Drizzt can fight blind way better than Lord Rahl. Drizzt was specifically trained for it, and possesses keener hearing due to his drow heritage. Drizzt often surrounds both himself and his opponent in darkness and is perfectly capable of using his sensitive hearing and skill to determine where different things are.

    It is foolish to argue that Richard can fight blind based on the fact that he killed invisible opponents. His enemies were invisible, but he still had the luxury of sight. He wasn’t blind at all. He could still see the ground and other inanimate objects. Drizzt on the other hand, CAN GO WITHOUT USING SIGHT AT ALL TO TELL WHERE EVERYTHING IS. Richards foes were invisible yes, but HE COULD STILL SEE. THAT’S NOT FIGHTING BLIND.

    I don’t think Richard’s sword would will simply break Drizzt’s scimitars. Drizzt’s scimitars are magic, twinkle is a + 4 and Icingdeath a + 3, by DnD terms. His weapons are heavily enchanted. Their quality is rare. +4 and +3 qualifies them as some of the most powerful enchanted weapons in faerun.

    In The Pirate King, Drizzt battled the Dwarf Athrogate. Long story short Athrogate applied corrosive oil that would have disintegrated a average enchanted weapon. However, Drizzt’s scimitars barely showed signs of rust and weakening, not even anything significant.

    There are some things the sword of truth can’t destroy. Such as agiels. Due to their enchantment, they are magically durable and Zedd made it sound like they were indestructible. Point is, even the sword of truth cant cut some things.

    Moreover, Richard would have to get really, really pissed off. He’d have to think Drizzt is 100 percent evil. It would hard for Richard to convince himself of this when he’s been shot full of holes (like swiss chese) by Taulmaril the Heartseeker, or if he’s been disembowled in the blink of an eye.

    About the swordplay, simply put: Drizzt is better.

    Let me start off by analyzing Drizzt. Drizzt was born with natural agility and and speed, being and elf, he is naturally more light on his feet than a human at birth and early years. However, Drizzt trained hard for near to a century, increasing his reflexes, agility, and speed to beyond that intial superhuman level. Then he acquired speed-enhancing anklets that multiply that beyond superhuman speed. He’s like exceptionally fast, then faster than that. His muscles are finely toned from frequent traveling and constantly battling great foes. He practices his moves every day for near to a century. A human who practiced their moves for twenty years wouldn’t be able to execute them as fast as Drizzt can do his moves, since Drizzt has trained them more.

    Richard is gifted his swordplay abilities. He may have knowledge of many styles and all kinds of moves, but he hasn’t been using his swordplay as long as Drizzt. Yes, Richard practices his little dance whenever he can, but not as long as 100 years. Drizzt, as i said, would of course be superior in all ways physical because he’s been training longer. He practiced every day for one hundred years, so he’s trained his speed, wheras Richard has been training constantly yes, but not as long as Drizzt has.

    Drizzt has better speed, reflexes, dexterity, agility, and strength.

    Please don’t reply to this and say that Richard is buff because he was a woods guide, because Drizzt has been a ranger and woodsman as long as richard MANY TIMES OVER. By that logic, Drizzt is buff er.

    Drizzt has many little things that add up on top of him being a swordsman. Like the fact that he has 2 SWORDS to RICHARDS 1. Drizzt has darkness globes, anklets, thrown daggers, many different things he brings into play.

    One more thing, all that talk of swordplay doesn’t matter if Richard can’t find his sword. This is a problem since he seems to always not have it.

  68. aceofqueens August 21, 2010 at 12:12 am -      #68

    Richard can sense creatures life-force to tell where they are. This won’t help him sense where Drizzt’s swords are, or the ground, or other objects. Richard could easily run into a wall and hurt himself because all he can sense is living things. Drizzt on the other hand, can use his hearing, smell, sense of direction, and his ability to quickly observe and remember surroundings (he proves he has this ability because he often uses his surroundings to great advantage) to know where non-living objects are, instead of JUST a person. If Richard were to try and fight inside a drow darkness globe, he could tell where Drizzt is (provided that Richard’s magic penetrates Drizzt’s drow magic resistance) but not Drizzt scimitars, since last time I checked, swords are not alive. This is a big problem because it is hard to block if you can’t see your opponent’s weapon, after all.

  69. Mike August 21, 2010 at 12:25 am -      #69

    all the things you say richard can’t do, he can due to his magic and just outright you being wrong about things from the books. i know you’ll respond to this with all of your flawed logic but i don’t care. thought i was putting an end to the Drizzt vs. Rahl blog by pointing out the obvious. if you respond, don’t do it on account of me, everyone knows who you and i think would win, happy blogging.

  70. aceofqueens August 21, 2010 at 4:53 pm -      #70

    yeah, let’s just agree to disagree about the fact that you are wrong lol.

  71. Tal August 28, 2010 at 4:25 pm -      #71

    Ugh. Really? People are still arguing this one?

    Alright…Aceofqueens, here’s a refutation, more “logical”, if you will, and arranged in helpful, easily digested numerical points:

    1) Drizzt’s experience means nothing. He’s been matched by Entreri, who’s much younger than he is. His “hundred years of perfecting his motions” apparently didn’t do a lot of good. I.e., a younger, less experienced combatant has a good shot at him.

    2) Enough with the “TWO SWORDS PWNS ONE, Y’ALL!” crap. Dual wielding is a style, like single sword. Neither is particularly superior. Sure, with dual wielding, you end up with an extra blade in your off-hand. But you lose the ability to seize the pommel with that off hand for leverage strokes or power hits. You no longer have the ability to grab an opponent, or seize the ricasso of an oncoming blade. It also precludes the possibility of half-swording. A man with a single sword has every chance of beating a man with two swords. Quantity does not immediately translate to quality.

    3) Yes, as an elf, Drizzt is naturally a bit lighter and more graceful than a human, more agile and acrobatic. The flip side of the coin is that if Richard gets ahold of him, he can beat Drizzt’s nose back into his brain in about three punches. Drizzt can’t stand up to Richard, strength against strength. Rahl outweighs him substantially, has far superior reach, and gains an advantage to seizing the offensive by benefit of pure muscle. Think of it in terms of Oberyn Martell versus The Mountain That Rides in ASoIaF. Drizzt might win by finesse if he genuinely has the skill to, but the whole time, he had better be really careful. Rahl, if armored (particularly plate armor), can shrug off a couple of scimitar hits easily. Drizzt, on the other hand, could be killed by main force even if the Sword of Truth doesn’t penetrate his mail.

    4) I’ll concede that the globe of darkness power gives Drizzt a certain advantage if he chose to employ it, but he’s been notoriously reluctant to do so against his more powerful adversaries in the past (e.g. Entreri, Ellifain, Obould). In addition, I can’t quite agree with your rather convenient assessment that Richard’s ability to sense living beings presents a negligible threat in this scenario. On the contrary. Any even marginally talented martial artist can fight blind, if required, given some basic knowledge of the opponent. Granted, he can’t see what’s underfoot…but then, neither can Drizzt. Drizzt has experience fighting in the dark, true, but he has to rely on ordinary senses. I’m not sure that that reduces Rahl’s ability to pinpoint his opponent to insignificance. To use your own ideas…Drizzt simply isn’t going to be expecting his opponent to know where he is. That will throw him off balance to some extent.

    So these are my points. Drizzt is a skilled warrior, but then so is Rahl. Goodkind considers Richard the most dangerous man in his universe…Salvatore, on the other hand, has made numerous comments to the effect that Drizzt is a sort of “big fish, small pond” character. Rahl is bigger, stronger, and as far as I’m concerned, comparably skillful. Drizzt can step fast, true, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument for him actually winning. Most commentators seem to simply think “OMG, BUT HE’S DRIZZT!” and leave it at that.

    Then again, perhaps I shouldn’t complain, lawlz. I’m firmly convinced that the Kingslayer or the Bloody Nine could hack them both into little pieces, laughing all the while, despite all logical evidence to the contrary.

  72. aceofqueens August 30, 2010 at 12:32 am -      #72

    lol

    Well, here is MY refutation, also neatly arranged into numerical points. Although these points have a little more, how do you say, truth.

    1. First of all everybody, Tal has no clue what he is talking about. If he did, he would know that Drizzt BEAT Enteri. The first fight between Enteri and Drizzt resulted in Enteri being strewn acrossed some rocks, clinging to life after falling from a cliff. In the second fight, Enteri won, but only because a man named Jarlaxle had his pscionist aid Enteri.

    Yes Tal, you have the right attitude, a far less experienced opponent has a shot at a more experienced foe. I.E. Drizzt has a GREAT shot at Richard even though Drizzt has near to one hundred years of experience, and Richard has at least a thousand.
    You help to prove Drizzt would win. Thank you.

    2. Since when did I ever talk like a redneck? Whatever. Anyways, you are wrong. Drizzt’s two swords DOES have an advantage over Richard’s single sword. See, if Richard was fighting just any two-sword-wielder, he would have be at a distinct disadvantage because he has to expend extra energy to block one sword after another, and he would tire out rather easily. Let alone Richard getting in an attack. But Drizzt is no ordinary sword fighter, he has greater hand speed and dexterity than most, and is a very vicious and aggressive fighter, especially when he is in the hunter. He once saw an orc holding his girlfriend’s sword (he was trapped behind enemy lines and assumed the orc took it off her corpse) and basically went ape on it, hitting it at least a hundred times before his ally could run over and get him to stop.

    What I’m saying is that since Richard carries one sword and no off hand weapon or shield, he is at a big disadvantage because he would have to use a lot more energy to parry Drizzt’s lightning attacks, let alone get an attack in. And I don’t even think anybody is crazy enough to argue Richard has more endurance in the first place.

    3. Yes, as an elf, Drizzt is naturally a bit lighter and more graceful than a human, more agile and acrobatic. The flip side of the coin is that if Richard gets ahold of him, he can beat Drizzt’s nose back into his brain in about three punches. Drizzt can’t stand up to Richard, strength against strength. Rahl outweighs him substantially, has far superior reach, and gains an advantage to seizing the offensive by benefit of pure muscle. Think of it in terms of Oberyn Martell versus The Mountain That Rides in ASoIaF. Drizzt might win by finesse if he genuinely has the skill to, but the whole time, he had better be really careful. Rahl, if armored (particularly plate armor), can shrug off a couple of scimitar hits easily. Drizzt, on the other hand, could be killed by main force even if the Sword of Truth doesn’t penetrate his mail.”

    This whole paragraph is alot of b.s. let me explain.

    While Richard has in the very least a thousand years of experience, the amount of time he has been fighting is far less than Drizzt. Richard started fighting at the beginning of the series, and had been a woods guide for a short time.

    Drizzt on the other hand, has been fighting for 100 years. Most of this century he was a ranger, similar to a woods guide. Drizzt has finely honed fighter’s muscles and a seasoned veteran’s endurance. However, Drizzt is an elf, and as such has a shorter body, shorter reach, and a naturally smaller constitution. I figure this evens him out to about normal. Richard and Drizzt are about even in strength.

    This is the part of the rambling bs that I take most issue with:

    “if Richard gets ahold of him, he can beat Drizzt’s nose back into his brain in about three punches.”

    The problem with that is the fact that Drizzt knows how to grapple well. He was trained how to wrestle in Menzoberanzan. Once Wulfgar the barbarian pinned Drizzt because Wulfgar though Drizzt kissed Wulfgar’s G.F. Drizzt basically used leverage, cunning, and a trained mind to slide out of Wulfgar’s grasp and overpower him. Keep in mind Wulfgar is a F*cking ripped barbarian, I would be amazed at the stupidity of anybody who suggests a Richard vs. Wulfgar wrestling/hand to hand fight. In fact, Wulfgar and a cave giant locked arms and basically sumo wrestled each other. Wulfgar, by sheer strength, bent the creature back so far the cave giant broke it’s spine.

    Yet Drizzt beat Wulfgar, even though he was pinned by this muscle beast.

    So don’t give me that crap.

    4. Ok. Let me school you.

    Drizzt frequently uses his globes of darkness to devastating effect, especially in the Hunter’s Blades Trilogy, which you obviously have not read, thus helping to prove the fact that you have no idea, what the hell you are speaking about in your above comment.

    What’s this crap about “Granted, he can’t see what’s underfoot…but then, neither can Drizzt.”

    I thought you understood the whole point of fighting blind. Drizzt can’t see of course, that’s why it’s called blind fighting.

    Once, Drizzt rushed into a tent full of orcs and one orc shaman. He dropped darkness globes all over the tent so that it was pitch black in there. Also, the shaman had cast a spell causing silence. In other words, Drizzt had no sound or sight. Yet he slaughtered all of those orcs. He relied on his sense of direction, feel, instinct, and even smell.

    Rahl can’t use magic to pinpoint Drizzt’s location. Rahl can’t control his own magic. How sad. First off, he’d need to be smart enough to even devise a clever trick like that, which he is not. Second, all he gets is usually lightning and simple cave man stuff, let alone a complex trick that could bypass Drizzt’s magic resistance.

    Ah, let’s not forget about this little one: “Drizzt, on the other hand, could be killed by main force even if the Sword of Truth doesn’t penetrate his mail.”

    Um…hello McFly! the point of armour is that it stops the blade, and you don’t get hurt. Oh, I forgot. a blade not penetrating armour still kills you. Silly me.

    “So these are my points. Drizzt is a skilled warrior, but then so is Rahl. Goodkind considers Richard the most dangerous man in his universe…Salvatore, on the other hand, has made numerous comments to the effect that Drizzt is a sort of “big fish, small pond” character. Rahl is bigger, stronger, and as far as I’m concerned, comparably skillful. Drizzt can step fast, true, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument for him actually winning. Most commentators seem to simply think “OMG, BUT HE’S DRIZZT!” and leave it at that.”

    I don’t give a rat’s ass what the authors say, R.A. is a genius and Terry has a girls name and can’t write a well thought out story. What the authors say about their characters doesn’t change the fact that Drizzt would pretty much massacre (and I say massacre because massacre refers to the slaughtering of defenseless civilians.) Richard, then move on like nothing happened.

    “Goodkind considers Richard the most dangerous man in his universe…”

    LOL. Even you know that Richard is surely NOT that powerful.

    “easily digested numerical points:”

    those are points?

    Go ahead and post again if you are in the mood to make me grin.

    I love doing this.

  73. aceofqueens August 30, 2010 at 12:39 am -      #73

    Another point.

    Has anybody mentioned that Richard wears no armour, but Drizzt has a drow spidersilk shirt. Drow armour is the finest in the world and the spidersilk shirt is no exception. It defends you better than mithril, and is light as a feather, allowing for flexibility. Drizzt also wears hard leather on top of that. And Richard has some basic clothes. Just saying.

  74. extragoodchi August 30, 2010 at 1:25 am -      #74

    wow is it just me or is aceofqueens the biggest troll ever? who let this 3 year old get a hold of the internet? never getting laid seems to build up a lot of repressed anger.. i honestly think aceofqueens would suck drizzt’s dick given the opportunity. reading this person’s assertions regarding richard rahl is like watching some douche on fox news talk about obama. get over yourself and introduce yourself to a treadmill and buy some lean cuisines you miserable vagina… once again.. power of orden > elf with two gayly named swords. you lose. get a life and live it loser

  75. Mike August 30, 2010 at 4:08 am -      #75

    whew, glad it wasn’t just me not getting this aceofqueens person. when you make a valid point “ace” just seems to throw a hissy fit and attack fictional characters personaly lmao.

  76. Tal August 30, 2010 at 12:05 pm -      #76

    *Groan* Aceofqueens, I realize you’re da biggest drizzt fan evah and all, but I think my arguments have at least been fairly civil. You, however, have responded to everyone who has questioned you with abuse and ad hominem attacks. This does not impress me, nor does it make me particularly eager to concede points to you.

    1) Yes, Drizzt beat Entreri. Twice now (he didn’t beat Drizzt the second time, as you kindly pointed out. He was defeated, and then tried to commit suicide by announcing his backstab). It has been acknowledged each time as something very close, almost dumb luck. My point is not that Entreri is Drizzt’s superior, only that despite Drizzt’s vaunted “experience”, he’s come close numerous times to being defeated by a man roughly sixty years his junior. Salvatore himself has called Entreri Drizzt’s “opposite number”, his “dark reflection”. I.e., the points you made about Drizzt’s swordsmanship winning out purely due to practice are not terribly valid. I would also make the point that Richard does not have “experience”, per se. He has a certain intuition based on the knowledge of past Seekers.

    2) I apologize if I made you sound too redneck. I was mostly lampooning this:

    “2 SWORDS to RICHARDS 1″. At any rate, you make an interesting point, but I think you’re basing it on a flawed understanding of martial arts (no offense: very few disciplines actually use double swords). You seem to be suggesting some sort of addition, that Richard is going to expend more effort keeping away two blades than one, as if he was fighting two people at once. That’s not the way it works. Dual blades work in concert. No swordfighter can duel with two blades entirely independent of each other. That is, the motion of one dictates what the other is going to do. This effect becomes even more prominent when one considers that Drizzt is using two long blades, rather than a single longsword and a main gauche. There are moves to control dual swords, just as there are moves to control single swords. I say again: no style is inherently superior.

    3) No, you don’t understand. Much as it’s against the kung fu wisdom, size matters. A bigger man with more weight to carry around and a broader build is naturally going to develop more muscle mass than a smaller, lighter man. Drizzt is only a little heavier than Cattie-Brie, an average-sized (if fit) woman. We can estimate her at around 110-130 lbs. Richard is a fairly big and powerful man, maybe 200 to 210 lbs. He’s not a beast like Wulfgar, but he’s definitely significantly larger than Drizzt.

    On your Wulfgar point…oh yes, Wulfgar is much bigger than Richard, that’s a given. No one questions that: Wulfgar is a Conan spin-off. Being more of a tank than anyone else kind of comes with the territory. You’ll notice, though, that I used words like “could” and “careful”. What I’m saying is that Drizzt has to be careful. He beat Wulfgar by finesse and skill (and the fact that Wulfgar had gone waaaay over the rainbow to Hulk-land). That doesn’t mean that he’s suddenly got big, strong guys all figured out and he can bend them around his little finger. My point here is that Richard, unlike Wulfgar, has skills and combat abilities comparable to Drizzt’s own through the Sword of Truth. So if Drizzt can’t get out of it by skill alone…exactly what is he going to do?

    4) Okay…here’s a quote from you. “Richard can sense creatures life-force to tell where they are.” That’s pretty much it, in a nutshell. I honestly don’t see anything else in there that says anything about my point. Just a lot of summarizing of Drizzt’s accomplishments…in a rather breathy, awed style, I might add, xD. To save you (and me) further plot exposition, let me be clear: I read all these books, kid. Yeah, I may not remember every fight scene. I read them, like most people, when I was around twelve to thirteen, but I do remember the general occurences. Moving on.

    Okay, on the magic. I was mostly dealing with this as a swordfight, because I honestly find “would magic work” questions pretty hard to answer a lot of the time. It’s all so relative to the books. That said, though, I don’t think you can really claim that Richard CAN’T use magic. Yeah, he’d have to be all “grr, evil!” about Drizzt, but without further knowledge of the fight’s setting and origins, we can’t really be certain he wouldn’t. I mean, does Richard come into this with the entire well-thumbed Legend of Drizzt collection in his backpack? I kind of doubt it. If he just meets Drizzt in a forest and they somehow end up fighting, he’s just going to think: “Agh! Strange black pointy-eared man! Scary violet eyes! Wicked-looking blades (heh heh, wait, did he actually call that one Twinkle? Dude, that is soooo gay…okay, back on task). Trying to kill me? What?! But that would leave my kingdom uncared for! And my beautiful gf cold in her bed at night! NOOO!!!” *Hulk rage*

    This wouldn’t necessarily happen. That isn’t to say it wouldn’t, either. Another bit of likelihood in Rahl’s favor.

    “Um…hello McFly! the point of armour is that it stops the blade, and you don’t get hurt. Oh, I forgot. a blade not penetrating armour still kills you. Silly me”

    Uh…look, main force is…okay, explanation incoming. Chain mail can stop a blade. That doesn’t mean it stops the force behind it. If a big man swings a large metal object into you, it will hurt like hell, even if the blade doesn’t cut you. After the advent of plate armor in the middle ages, blades generally DIDN’T get through armor, so the knights took to using warhammers and axes on other knights. This was because, given enough impact swung directly into you, you may not have so much as a paper cut, but you will still be on the ground, coughing up blood for your last few seconds of life before the curtain drops. If Richard gets a chance to put his full force into a two-handed swing that connects, Drizzt is screwed. It will break bones at the least, possibly crush his throat, skull or chest, and very likely cause internal bleeding as his ribs shatter. Drizzt, on the other hand, makes a lot of raking slashes, but he’s been generally shown to be oddly reluctant to go for the kill shots. Like you so kindly reminded me, he “went ape” on an orc and hit it dozens of times. That’s, in fact, sort of his M.O. He slashes his opponent a lot and waits for them to bleed out and weaken before coming in for the coup de grace. He may have to revise that attitude facing Richard, however. Rahl’s a man who knows how to find an instant kill once in a while.

    As for the last points…look, argument aside, don’t get all worked up over this.

    Final point on the armor is a good one, though. I seem to recall Richard wearing armor at some point, but I read SoT before Legend of Drizzt even. Can someone who isn’t all gay for Drizzt (xD, no real harm meant: I’m all gaga for FitzChivalry Farseer at the moment) verify whether or not Rahl wears armor at the peak of his power?

  77. Tal August 30, 2010 at 12:05 pm -      #77

    *Groan* Aceofqueens, I realize you’re da biggest drizzt fan evah and all, but I think my arguments have at least been fairly civil. You, however, have responded to everyone who has questioned you with abuse and ad hominem attacks. This does not impress me, nor does it make me particularly eager to concede points to you.

    1) Yes, Drizzt beat Entreri. Twice now (he didn’t beat Drizzt the second time, as you kindly pointed out. He was defeated, and then tried to commit suicide by announcing his backstab). It has been acknowledged each time as something very close, almost dumb luck. My point is not that Entreri is Drizzt’s superior, only that despite Drizzt’s vaunted “experience”, he’s come close numerous times to being defeated by a man roughly sixty years his junior. Salvatore himself has called Entreri Drizzt’s “opposite number”, his “dark reflection”. I.e., the points you made about Drizzt’s swordsmanship winning out purely due to practice are not terribly valid. I would also make the point that Richard does not have “experience”, per se. He has a certain intuition based on the knowledge of past Seekers.

    2) I apologize if I made you sound too redneck. I was mostly lampooning this:

    “2 SWORDS to RICHARDS 1″. At any rate, you make an interesting point, but I think you’re basing it on a flawed understanding of martial arts (no offense: very few disciplines actually use double swords). You seem to be suggesting some sort of addition, that Richard is going to expend more effort keeping away two blades than one, as if he was fighting two people at once. That’s not the way it works. Dual blades work in concert. No swordfighter can duel with two blades entirely independent of each other. That is, the motion of one dictates what the other is going to do. This effect becomes even more prominent when one considers that Drizzt is using two long blades, rather than a single longsword and a main gauche. There are moves to control dual swords, just as there are moves to control single swords. I say again: no style is inherently superior.

    3) No, you don’t understand. Much as it’s against the kung fu wisdom, size matters. A bigger man with more weight to carry around and a broader build is naturally going to develop more muscle mass than a smaller, lighter man. Drizzt is only a little heavier than Cattie-Brie, an average-sized (if fit) woman. We can estimate her at around 110-130 lbs. Richard is a fairly big and powerful man, maybe 200 to 210 lbs. He’s not a beast like Wulfgar, but he’s definitely significantly larger than Drizzt.

    On your Wulfgar point…oh yes, Wulfgar is much bigger than Richard, that’s a given. No one questions that: Wulfgar is a Conan spin-off. Being more of a tank than anyone else kind of comes with the territory. You’ll notice, though, that I used words like “could” and “careful”. What I’m saying is that Drizzt has to be careful. He beat Wulfgar by finesse and skill (and the fact that Wulfgar had gone waaaay over the rainbow to Hulk-land). That doesn’t mean that he’s suddenly got big, strong guys all figured out and he can bend them around his little finger. My point here is that Richard, unlike Wulfgar, has skills and combat abilities comparable to Drizzt’s own through the Sword of Truth. So if Drizzt can’t get out of it by skill alone…exactly what is he going to do?

    4) Okay…here’s a quote from you. “Richard can sense creatures life-force to tell where they are.” That’s pretty much it, in a nutshell. I honestly don’t see anything else in there that says anything about my point. Just a lot of summarizing of Drizzt’s accomplishments…in a rather breathy, awed style, I might add, xD. To save you (and me) further plot exposition, let me be clear: I read all these books, kid. Yeah, I may not remember every fight scene. I read them, like most people, when I was around twelve to thirteen, but I do remember the general occurences. Moving on.

    Okay, on the magic. I was mostly dealing with this as a swordfight, because I honestly find “would magic work” questions pretty hard to answer a lot of the time. It’s all so relative to the books. That said, though, I don’t think you can really claim that Richard CAN’T use magic. Yeah, he’d have to be all “grr, evil!” about Drizzt, but without further knowledge of the fight’s setting and origins, we can’t really be certain he wouldn’t. I mean, does Richard come into this with the entire well-thumbed Legend of Drizzt collection in his backpack? I kind of doubt it. If he just meets Drizzt in a forest and they somehow end up fighting, he’s just going to think: “Agh! Strange black pointy-eared man! Scary violet eyes! Wicked-looking blades (heh heh, wait, did he actually call that one Twinkle? Dude, that is soooo gay…okay, back on task). Trying to kill me? What?! But that would leave my kingdom uncared for! And my beautiful gf cold in her bed at night! NOOO!!!” *Hulk rage*

    This wouldn’t necessarily happen. That isn’t to say it wouldn’t, either. Another bit of likelihood in Rahl’s favor.

    “Um…hello McFly! the point of armour is that it stops the blade, and you don’t get hurt. Oh, I forgot. a blade not penetrating armour still kills you. Silly me”

    Uh…look, main force is…okay, explanation incoming. Chain mail can stop a blade. That doesn’t mean it stops the force behind it. If a big man swings a large metal object into you, it will hurt like hell, even if the blade doesn’t cut you. After the advent of plate armor in the middle ages, blades generally DIDN’T get through armor, so the knights took to using warhammers and axes on other knights. This was because, given enough impact swung directly into you, you may not have so much as a paper cut, but you will still be on the ground, coughing up blood for your last few seconds of life before the curtain drops. If Richard gets a chance to put his full force into a two-handed swing that connects, Drizzt is screwed. It will break bones at the least, possibly crush his throat, skull or chest, and very likely cause internal bleeding as his ribs shatter. Drizzt, on the other hand, makes a lot of raking slashes, but he’s been generally shown to be oddly reluctant to go for the kill shots. Like you so kindly reminded me, he “went ape” on an orc and hit it dozens of times. That’s, in fact, sort of his M.O. He slashes his opponent a lot and waits for them to bleed out and weaken before coming in for the coup de grace. He may have to revise that attitude facing Richard, however. Rahl’s a man who knows how to find an instant kill once in a while without a map and two signposts.

    As for the last points…look, argument aside, don’t get all worked up over this.

    Final point on the armor is a good one, though. I seem to recall Richard wearing armor at some point, but I read SoT before Legend of Drizzt even. Can someone who isn’t all gay for Drizzt (xD, no real harm meant: I’m all gaga for FitzChivalry Farseer at the moment) verify whether or not Rahl wears armor at the peak of his power?

  78. Tal August 30, 2010 at 12:12 pm -      #78

    Mmph. That’ll teach me to try to edit en route, xD.

  79. Mike August 30, 2010 at 3:06 pm -      #79

    i suppose that’s a better way to put it than i would have said. wrap your arm in chain mesh and wack it against the corner of a wall as fast as you would swing a sword and tell me if it hurts, lol.

  80. aceofqueens August 31, 2010 at 7:44 pm -      #80

    well, I pretty much skimmed most of that, since it’s all bs anyway.

    “*Groan* Aceofqueens, I realize you’re da biggest drizzt fan evah and all, but I think my arguments have at least been fairly civil. You, however, have responded to everyone who has questioned you with abuse and ad hominem attacks. This does not impress me, nor does it make me particularly eager to concede points to you.”

    It’s funny that you would say that. I’m not crazy for Drizzt at all. There are plenty or people (Fictional and non-fictional) who could pretty much beat Drizzt to a pulp, which is exactly what Drizzt will do to Richard. The fact that you try to put words into my mouth shows your weakness, It’s hard to take a person seriously when they resort to childish games like telling me what I said.

    1. I don’t know what your fascination with Enteri is about, I had thought we already cleared up the fact that Drizzt is superior. A younger, less experienced opponent CAN beat an older one, however in this case it is coincidentally experience that wins out.

    I’m sick and tired of people who are always spewing crap out of their mouths about Richard’s “intuition” or some other abstract term that basically shows that person is just trying to sound smart. I would rather side with Drizzt’s exceptional speed, agility, stealth, and a fricken impressive list of accomplishments over Rahls “intuition” (whatever that means.)

    2. I’m not gonna try to argue this point about 2 swords versus one, since It will get me no where because you obviously don’t comprehend math, which is a sad thing since math is a very useful skill in life.

    “Uh…look, main force is…okay, explanation incoming. Chain mail can stop a blade. That doesn’t mean it stops the force behind it. If a big man swings a large metal object into you, it will hurt like hell, even if the blade doesn’t cut you. After the advent of plate armor in the middle ages, blades generally DIDN’T get through armor, so the knights took to using warhammers and axes on other knights. This was because, given enough impact swung directly into you, you may not have so much as a paper cut, but you will still be on the ground, coughing up blood for your last few seconds of life before the curtain drops. If Richard gets a chance to put his full force into a two-handed swing that connects, Drizzt is screwed. It will break bones at the least, possibly crush his throat, skull or chest, and very likely cause internal bleeding as his ribs shatter. Drizzt, on the other hand, makes a lot of raking slashes, but he’s been generally shown to be oddly reluctant to go for the kill shots. Like you so kindly reminded me, he “went ape” on an orc and hit it dozens of times. That’s, in fact, sort of his M.O. He slashes his opponent a lot and waits for them to bleed out and weaken before coming in for the coup de grace. He may have to revise that attitude facing Richard, however. Rahl’s a man who knows how to find an instant kill once in a while without a map and two signposts.”

    WOW. What is this crap about Drizzt not going for kill shots? And he doesn’t just slash you and wait for you to die, that would be a bonehead move like something Richard would do. Drizzt kills more people per day (on average) than Richard in his whole life.

    Drizzt charges you, disarms you, confuses you with whirling blades, and before you know it…BAM…Richard’s carroted artery is leaking.

    Or you simply don’t see him…then bam, you’re dead without knowing what happened.

    Richard, on the other hand, just sits around reading books and spewing crap about philosophies that every human already knows about. I mean, come on. Choosing life over death? Obviously that’s the whole point of survival. And survival is something Drizzt knows a lot about.

    Maybe if Richie would get off his ass and get crap done every once in a while he would be a badass like Drizzt.

    You know, I laughed pretty hard about your point involving Richards magic. That is some funny stuff. I’m not even gonna grace that with an argument, just go and read my posts. (you obviously have not done this.)

    You know, all these things you claim about Rahl are pretty f’in hilarious. Dude, you are a trooper. Albeit a completely incorrect one.

    You make my day.

  81. aceofqueens August 31, 2010 at 7:46 pm -      #81

    @ mike

    only if your a pussy like richie ;)

  82. Tal August 31, 2010 at 9:22 pm -      #82

    Aceofqueens, once again…you don’t have to prove the John Gabriel greater internet dickwad theory right at every turn. To start with, I didn’t put words in your mouth. That’s not what the phrase means. I informed you in general terms that you were being offensive, and that I wasn’t impressed. As I could only assume you were putting on this facade of “me internet tough guy, you jane” to impress your opponents, I vaguely hoped (although didn’t really expect) you to make your points without trying to insult everyone who disagrees with you. That’s what an ad hominem attack means. It’s a term referring to debates, in which one individual tries to distract from the inadequacy of their own arguments by personally insulting his opponent. It’s considered a puerile way to do business.

    1) Yes, yes, I’m aware that you think Drizzt is “frickin awesome” (no, you’re not crazy about Drizzt at all, I see it now…:) ). You’ve implied as much to, just saying, a bit of a nauseating extent. Aside from that, though, you’ve just engaged in another logical fallacy, an argumentum ad hominem. Your personal opinion has no place in a structured debate. You seem well-versed in the books themselves. Give me a reason why Drizzt’s speed and agility would defeat the sword of truth that is not based on something like “This one time, Drizzt did this, and it was so awesome…”; or “clearly, Rahl can’t be as good as Drizzt because Drizzt is more awesome (begging the question)”. Rahl has been shown capable of defeating 150 or so armed assailants at once. Drizzt, too, while never to my knowledge accomplishing a similar feat in specific…is a very skilled adversary. I don’t see any direct way of comparing their martial skills beyond that point (except possibly going over their individual moves line by line, and I don’t think either of us have enough time for that, xD), so we’re forced to turn to other strengths they may have. Ergo, Rahl’s size, strength, weight, possibility of magic, etc.

    2) This is another ad hominem attack, I believe, mostly designed to draw attention from the lack of a useful counterargument. In the interest of clarification, however, I’ll give a brief example. It will be simple, as I, naturally, cannot claim to be a swordsman in any way comparable to fictional characters, lol. Say Drizzt makes a strike at Richard, right to left, with his right hand scimitar (Twinkle, I believe). Imagine further that Richard is able to interpose the sword of truth so as to halt Twinkle’s progress long enough for his off hand to seize Drizzt’s arm at the elbow. At this point, he basically controls Drizzt’s immediate reactions. He can yank him sideways easily with his greater weight, such that Drizzt has few options for using Icingdeath. His right shoulder is toward Richard. Twinkle is immobilized, and will be jutting out in front of Drizzt’s body, blocking a low stab by its mere presence. Any change in foot position will be betrayed by a twist to the shoulder or arm and alert Rahl, who can just drag him back a bit and resume the status quo. Drizzt has two main options: make an unlikely stab over his head with Icingdeath, or drop Icingdeath long enough to use a hold-breaking technique on Rahl’s wrist or hand. In the one case, Drizzt will likely be killed by Richard before he completes the maneuver. In the other, he may escape, but he will be a heartbeat slow for having to drop the blade and will likely come away tagged, as well as having lost one of his blades. The fight resumes. Never underestimate a grappling hand, especially when your opponent has nothing immediate to repel it with.

    3) Mm…it would be gracious, at this juncture, to acknowledge that you were mistaken concerning blunt force trauma…but then, of course, I didn’t really expect that either. You may be right, however, there at the end, that I do Drizzt a disservice, generalizing his style without reference to specific examples. I do remember noticing, however, that Drizzt really seems to take a while to kill most of his opponents. Salvatore makes much reference to “cunningly placed cuts” and suchforth, but most of Drizzt’s duels seem to take a long time, involving a lot of cutting, before his opponent finally falls. He rarely goes for the (next time, spellcheck) carotid artery, as you say, right off the bat, as a real soldier would do. Instead, he wastes his time giving his opponent sustainable slashes, only then moving in for the final kill. That said, that’s only my recollection talking. If you’ve got a specific example where Drizzt just slits the throat of someone he’s facing without so much as breaking stride, feel free to post it up.

    Okay…*reads on*…the rest of the post seems to be an expose on Rahl’s personal habits, for some reason that I’m apparently not privy to. I’d say it was a straw man fallacy (i.e. constructing an easy argument of your own to tear down, thus gaining an apparently better position), but to be honest, it’s fairly unrelated even for that, and I think it’s mostly just more ranting about the “frickin awesome” thing again.

    I’ve reviewed your posts on the magic. I don’t honestly see them as useful. You refer only to examples in the first one or two books. Surely you know that Rahl used magic to greater effect later. Granted, his abilities have not fully matured even by the end of the series, but to claim it is impossible they will occur based on a few occurences when the poor guy doesn’t even know he’s a wizard doesn’t seem fair, mm? Lawlz…

    Now. In the interest of putting this somewhat tiresome thing to rest (yeah…sure, xD), and making my position more clear (pretty damn already, but let’s give it a whirl)…here we go. One to one lineup.

    Just as a minor note….I’m sure you won’t believe me, but I really don’t like Richard Rahl that much more than I like Drizzt Do’Urden. They’re both pulp fantasy mary-sues, and I’ve never been a big fan of Terry Goodkind (b/c he’s a pompous ass. “I don’t write fantasy”. Yeah. Fo sho, Terry…) or R.A. Salvatore (who, while apparently a nice guy, is just a terrible writer). Anyway, like I say, this isn’t really meant to convince you, because I’m sure you’ll be just as dubious as I am of the whole “No, really, I’m just a reasonable, balanced commentator, weighing the odds…” thing. Just thought I should mention it. Go Martin! Go Hobb! Go Rothfuss!

    Anyway…

    Rahl

    Advantages: Outweighs opponent by about 50-60 pounds. Much stronger. Far superior reach. Possibility of using magic (it is, btw, physically impossible to dodge a lightning bolt), which would likely lead to a critical hit. Likely has access to more sword moves, overall.

    Disadvantages: Lack of armor (no one’s responded, so I’ll assume you’re right on that). Inferior speed (while he is described as a faster man than all others in his village, Drizzt has his enchanted anklets–or greaves, if Salvatore knew what they were actually supposed to be called, xD).

    Do’Urden

    Advantages: Quick on his feet. Chain mail will deflect weaker blows with no damage. Marginal advantage may be gained by invoking sphere of darkness power (debatable).

    Disadvantages: Physically smaller, weaker, and lighter than his opponent. Probably has access to fewer sword moves overall.

    Finally…

    “You make my day.”

    “I love doing this”

    “Make me grin.”

    “Blah blah blah.”

    *Raised eyebrow* Heh heh…heh heh heh….AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! Dude, could you get more obvious? Do you really think I haven’t seen the “you’re barely worth my attention, so I’ll fake being amused by your antics” attitude before? It’s as old as the web. Obviously, you care a great deal, otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to insult us with this feeble attempt at snarkiness and pseudointellectualism. You really make me laugh, kid. Ah, for the innocence and stupidity of youth…

    *Drops smile*

    As you may have noticed, I can pull the same anal, passive-aggressive little trick. It doesn’t mean anything. So spare me and stop pretending to find everyone criticizing you funny. Don’t shoot back a reply justifying it with a long-winded explanation of WHY you find us all so hilarious. A six year old could see it for the defensive mechanism it is at a glance. If you truly found this as negligible as you claim, you wouldn’t still be here. Now please…civility?

    Yeah, I know, that probably ain’t gonna work either. But hey, no one can say I’m not putting effort into this.

  83. Tal September 1, 2010 at 1:24 am -      #83

    One final point: you also argue above that Rahl can’t use the magic of “his universe”, because he and Drizzt must be fighting in a neutral location. You then go on to announce that Drizzt can use his enchanted anklets to increase his speed, as well as using his globe of darkness powers.

    That seems a bit hypocritical.

    I should apologize, though. You did later mention a reference to later book that I skimmed over…I thought it was more about Drizzt’s list of accomplishments.

    I will make the point again, however, that Rahl’s failure to use magic in particular circumstances is no guarantee that he can’t when facing Drizzt. Yes, as you say, whether he does or not is mostly dependent on the Goodkind’s plot needs, but unless you want to send the following e-mail to ol’ Terry, we have to kind of assume it’s a possibility:

    “Excuse me, Mr. Goodkind, but if Richard Rahl was fighting Drizzt Do’Urden, would he be capable of using his magical powers? PS: If you say he can, I’ll make cheesy attempts to belittle you! Beware!”

  84. aceofqueens September 1, 2010 at 10:45 pm -      #84

    “One final point: you also argue above that Rahl can’t use the magic of “his universe”, because he and Drizzt must be fighting in a neutral location. You then go on to announce that Drizzt can use his enchanted anklets to increase his speed, as well as using his globe of darkness powers. ”

    For somebody who claims to know about Richard, you have this very pathetic misunderstanding of how the magic of orden works. Richard can control THE UNIVERSE. However a neutral area would prevent Rahl from using orden because it’s a neutral, unbaised place out of both of their respect universes. Richard would be OUT OF HIS UNIVERSE.

    But Drizzt’s anklets and other magic items he amassed over the years would still work, because they draw energy from him and/or use the energy they are enchanted with. They will work wherever. The same thing with Richard’s sword.

    By your logic, Richard’s sword wouldn’t work out-of-universe. However this is not the case, as I have already explained. The sword of truth has energy enchanted into it that it uses. However, if Richard lost his sword and was transported out of universe, then the link obviously wouldn’t work. (He can’t seem to hold on to that thing.)

    “Excuse me, Mr. Goodkind, but if Richard Rahl was fighting Drizzt Do’Urden, would he be capable of using his magical powers? PS: If you say he can, I’ll make cheesy attempts to belittle you! Beware!”

    Is that an imitation of me? Cause’ that’s highly humerous and very inaccurate.

    Why should Terry get to decide the circumstances. Why is he allowed to say that the circumstances allow Richard to use magic (and the circumstances usually don’t) just to protect his little richard.

    If Terry gets to manipulate the circumstances to help his character, than Mr. Salvatore can as well.

    “Hey Mr. Salvatore! If Richard fought Drizzt Do’Urden, would Drizzt have his companions with him. P.S. If he does, than I’ll make lame attmepts to argue despite having holes punched through my logic. I’ll also continue to do immature arguing techniques and try to sound smart.”

    Either Richard has no magic, or Drizzt has his allies with him.

    (Catti-Brie, Wulfgar, Regis, Jarlaxle, Athrogate, Bruenor, Thibbledorf Pwent, Banak Brawnanvil, Alustriel of Silverymoon, Harkle Harpell, Guenwhyvar, and possibly others.)

    I doubt Rahl can somehow fend off Drizzt, then dodge an arrow that moves lightning fast, stop Ageis Fang, avoid a bear hug from Pwent with his spiked armour, then counterspell Alustriel’s fireball or whatever it is she may throw (she IS a chosen of mystra,) roll to avoid thibbledorf pwent and bruenor, then stop Jarlaxle’s lightning bolt and sticky goo wand combo, while simultaneously throwing the 600 pound panther off his face, and somehow stop Harkle Harpell from accidentally killing everybody.

    I doubt Richard could do this even with Terry’s convenient over-powering of his mages.

    Ah, don’t forget Cadderly and Stumpet, the two clerics who will heal all of Drizzt’s band constantly.

    As for the points you have to say above, I don’t give a crap. I’ve said the same things over and over again if you “don’t want to see reason” then I don’t really care.

    A list of immature things you have done:

    1. Attempt to put words in my mouth. For example, you suddenly claimed I was some kind of raving fan of Drizzt who could see reason. This is clearly not the case, plenty of REAL heroes have a good shot and killing Drizzt. I never said “Drizzt was the BEST evur” or whatever you claim I said. This shows that you know you are losing and shows you have nothing better to do, it’s as if you think that being a fanboy makes your points invalid.

  85. aceofqueens September 1, 2010 at 10:52 pm -      #85

    2. Your trying to sound smart. You know it, so I’m not explaining this one.

    3. Your claim I’m being a tough guy or something, I’m just laughing at funny junk. If theres funny crap in front of me, I’m going to laugh. You think your cool by calling me out on thinking I’m a tough guy, to alleviate the pain of the fact that you do that yourself. (I.E. Try to act cool but fail.)

    4. You ripped on Drizzt’s sword. This shows that your masculinity is threatened by the fact that the sword is called Twinkle. YOU wouldn’t wield the sword. Drizzt’s manliness is not threatened by the sword’s name, but you however, are insecure and so it bothers YOU.

  86. aceofqueens September 1, 2010 at 11:01 pm -      #86

    Disadvantages: Lack of armor (no one’s responded, so I’ll assume you’re right on that). Inferior speed (while he is described as a faster man than all others in his village, Drizzt has his enchanted anklets–or greaves, if Salvatore knew what they were actually supposed to be called, xD).

    Idiot.

    Drizzt took the “anklets” from Dantrag Baenre the sword master. They are really bracers that Dantrag used on his wrists to increase his hand speed. However Drizzt put the BRACERS on his ANKLES. They are now ANKLETS. Greaves are something entirely different. Greaves are metal guards that protect your leg, thigh, and shin.

    lol

  87. aceofqueens September 1, 2010 at 11:16 pm -      #87

    Ok. I just went back and tried to read all of your post, since before I had tried to skim it.

    Quite honestly, your attempts to make yourself sound smart, with all this long bull crap and hominem stuff makes me sick. You claim I try to cover the fact I have no counter argument (which is silly because hey, guess what I’m doing right now…ARGUING!) when YOU sir are really the one who is trying to cover up the the fact he has no counter argument, because despite all your words and gay crap, (you sound like a friggin kid trying to confuse me) you did not address my points.

    In your own words: “That seems a bit hypocritical.”

    Oh and by the way, the reason I haven’t left is because I enjoy the argument, knowing that I negate everything my opponent says and watch as he becomes infuriated and lashes out, resorting to pathetic, and ineffectively childish arguments, and also watching as he tries to cover up the fact he has no counter-argument, as you yourself might say. I enjoy it, it is actually one of my hobbies. In fact, I have attended many speech n’ debate type events and have won often.

    At the end of the day, there are three things I know.

    1. Tal is a little kid.
    2. I am right, you are wrong. I savor this, and leave you to rot in your sea of wrongness.
    3. Drizzt…BankGambling award.

    PEACE, confused, little insecure kid.

  88. Mike September 2, 2010 at 10:16 am -      #88

    wow ace, wish you’d read what you just wrote because you just verified what Tal was saying about your whole argument. just thought of something too, even if you make the assumption that drizzt’s swords wouldn’t shatter when striking richard’s; i have no knowledge why any of his armor or flesh wouldn’t be butter to it.

  89. Tal September 3, 2010 at 3:54 pm -      #89

    Yep, didn’t think that’d work, xD. Let me address a few things…

    “1. Attempt to put words in my mouth. For example, you suddenly claimed I was some kind of raving fan of Drizzt who could see reason. This is clearly not the case, plenty of REAL heroes have a good shot and killing Drizzt. I never said “Drizzt was the BEST evur” or whatever you claim I said. This shows that you know you are losing and shows you have nothing better to do, it’s as if you think that being a fanboy makes your points invalid.”

    Oh, come now. I never claimed exact quotations, to my knowledge, nor did I particularly imply that being a fan is “bad”. I did, however, make the point (fairly gently, as far as I’m concerned) that your long descriptions of Drizzt’s deeds and the quality of his deeds and et cetera ad nauseum didn’t…y’know…have a whole lot of point. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume someone is a fairly big fan if they spend four or five posts lingering on the high points of a particular character.

    2. Ah. Thought we might run into that one. Nope, I don’t claim to be of over average intelligence. I do read quite a bit, so I have a decent vocabulary, and of course I attend college, so I’m exposed to what I guess you’d call jargon. I’m not trying to condescend to you. I’ve just been trained to use the five dollar words, particularly when I write. I don’t see anything particularly wrong with that. It’s a weird attitude to encourage mediocrity. You’d rather I tried to “sound dumb”? As long as I can use the words properly, give me the benefit of the doubt that I’m not trawling through the dictionary thinking “aha, there’s a good one!”

    3. I never said you try to act cool but fail, or implied it that I recall. I did tell you that you were being offensive and petty, and judging by the reactions of a couple of others, I don’t think I’m being unreasonable there. Nor do I think I’m wrong in saying that your posts about “I find this so hilarious”, et cetera, are primarily a defensive mechanism. There’s a marginal possibility that I could be, that you actually do amuse yourself by trolling the internet getting into arguments with people you’ve never met…but I doubt it. You fit the profile too closely.

    4. Yep, I ripped on Drizzt’s sword. Not going to apologize for that, man. Twinkle IS a fairly dirt-poor name for a sword in my opinion. If Salvatore, as you seem to be suggesting, was actually using it as the sort of statement you suggest…I dunno, maybe I’d think “okay, yeah, I can see that”. But to be honest, I never got that impression. It seemed to me like Salvatore, when he invented the name, genuinely tried to write a badass name for the thing. Of course, that’s just my reading, but it’s worthy of ridicule in that case as far as I’m concerned. Twinkle. Honestly.

    On the greaves/anklets…nah, not really. Where’d you get that idea? Greaves are shin guards, basically. They can get larger or smaller depending on the style used at particular eras, but they’re almost always called greaves. They’re as old as armor itself. Bracers should also technically be called vambraces, I believe, although modern fantasy authors have gone somewhere different with that. An anklet is generally defined as an “ankle bracelet”, i.e. there for ornamentation.

    This is an an anklet: images.bizrate.com/resize?sq=500&uid=1432006412

    This is a greave: www.armstreet.com/ebay/art/nateloponsmed01.jpg

    Also this: historyshop.piratemerch.com/images/leather_greaves_200854.jpg

    And this: www.globaleffects.com/C_pages/Rental/Wardrobe/Armor/Period/Leg/IMG_0839_hi.jpg

    As you can see, it’s a pretty wide definition. Greaves generally don’t cover the thighs, though, btw. That’s another part of armor. Can’t remember the name, though…I’d have to google it.

    Finally…yeah, dude, I’d have to agree with Mike on this one (fist bump at Mike). What’s up with that last post? If I didn’t address your points, it was because they weren’t relevant. I explained as much, in exhaustive detail (believe me, writing that last one took a looooong time, and it would’ve taken longer had I not just nixed some of your random wanderings). I explained all of this through my ad hominem stuff. Again, sorry if it sounds condescending, but I needed some way of explaining to you why I wasn’t responding to specific points. That is, because they weren’t valid in an argument. Read through it. I don’t think I’m attacking you. I’m just pointing out the places where there’s really nothing to respond to, where it’s either just talking Drizzt with relative opinion, or dumping on me for being an idiot or not knowing what I’m talking about, or whatever else it is you think I am. The former doesn’t say anything about why Drizzt should win because your personal opinions unsupported by evidence have no place in an argument. The latter are also useless because, once again, nothing about Drizzt (or Rahl, for that matter). It’s all about me.

    In fact, like Mike said, this entire argument you just leveled has basically fallen into that same second rut. That is, it’s all about me. You’re more interested in insulting me, personally, than you are in defending your character. Now I’m here doing the same thing (although I think that, once again, I’m defending myself more than attacking you. I haven’t insulted your intelligence, called you anything impolite, or demeaned you in any way. I called you ‘kid’ once, if memory serves, but frankly that was just because you write a bit like a kid. I’m guessing you’re mid-high school, maybe your late teens. I’m in my early twenties. Sorry if I got you wrong, man, but that’s the way it looks to me.

    You say I did not address your points. Good, that’s a start. I don’t think I missed anything relevant, but if I did, please point the instances out so we can actually get back to what we’re supposed to be doing. I too enjoy debating. What I don’t enjoy, or claim to enjoy (I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that shpiel about how much you love watching your pathetic opponent struggle for even a moment. Might be the ego talking, who knows, but once again…profile. I’ve seen your type before), is snapping back and forth with someone determined to make it personal. This is not personal. Let me repeat: this is NOT personal. If I point to errors you make, I am not trying to say you’re an idiot. If I tell you you’re being offensive, it’s only because you are. I have my pride, but I have small interest otherwise in getting into some sort of juvenile little pissing contest with you.

    So. Your point on the magic (the only point I can find in that vast ad hominem attack that’s actually useful to the debate as a whole) is well taken, but I don’t believe it qualifies. The magic of Orden you refer to is only part of Richard’s power, the bit accessed through the Boxes of Orden. Technically, he is also a wizard capable of using his Han, i.e. the life force placed by the Creator in all things. As stated by the Sword of Truth wiki, this life force is placed “inside the body”. A Gifted individual can then direct it outward. I.e., Richard’s magic is central to him as an individual. If you’d like to remove it, you might as well remove his kidneys and lungs into the bargain. Your point would have merit if we were discussing Rand Al’Thor, who channels the One Power of his universe but has no magic central to himself, but this is not the case with Rahl.

    As a reminder, my match-up of strengths and weaknesses between Rahl and Do’Urden is still uncontested. This means Rahl has the advantages of superior knowledge of sword forms, strength, weight, and reach, as well as debatably being able to use magic, though he can’t rely on it. Do’Urden has limited armor and speed on his side, as well as a debatable advantage gained by globe of darkness.

    You also mention that Drizzt should have his companions with him. I don’t think so. This was introduced as a duel between two men: let’s not complicate it. If we start down that road, it’ll be an all-out war between the D’Haran armies and the Battlehammer dwarves within two or three posts.

  90. Tal September 3, 2010 at 4:25 pm -      #90

    Also, to finally lay to rest this perception you seem to have that I’ve been “ducking” you, or making obfuscating arguments just to blow smoke and bullshit my way through this without making any valid arguments against you, let’s recap:

    My initial point: Richard is a bigger, stronger man. You claimed I was an idiot, etc., hadn’t read it, Drizzt was clearly stronger because he’d spent more time toning up or some such thing. I pointed out that a larger man will naturally develop more muscle mass, and Drizzt is only a little heavier than an average-sized woman anyway, so it’s almost impossible for him to stand up to Rahl, described as over six feet and powerfully built, strength on strength.

    No response from you.

    Another: I pointed out that, this being the case, blunt force trauma should be able to kill Drizzt even if Rahl’s sword failed to make it through his chain armor. You scoffed at this. I and a couple others responded by reminding you about the laws of physics.

    No response from you.

    I also made the point that the globe of darkness power is not so great an advantage as it might appear, as it has always relied on Drizzt’s being merely more practiced using his other senses to locate his opponent. Richard has the ability to sense life around him, and could therefore locate Drizzt as easily or more so. While I acknowledged that due to Do’Urden’s experience fighting in darkness this was not a totally equal situation, I made the point that it did reduce Drizzt’s advantage substantially, particularly as the Sword of Truth grants Rahl a great deal of fighting knowledge internal to him (we can assume at least some of it deals with fighting blind, as this is covered in most martial arts…even if not, any reasonably intelligent man can interpret an opponent’s position from a touch blade on blade, judging from momentum and angle). You laughed at this. I posted a quote of your own, in which you acknowledged Rahl’s ability.

    No response from you.

    You very rightly told me that I had mostly ignored your posts on magic, so I went back and reviewed them. That finished, I made an argument that we can’t absolutely claim Rahl can’t use magic. While I acknowledged his abilities have been notoriously faulty at times, they’ve also been improbably useful on occasion, mostly due to the will of Terry Goodkind. I suggested it was basically a toss-up, and the only way to be certain was to ask Goodkind himself (a joke).

    You responded by complaining about your portrayal in the fictional letter to Terry Goodkind.

    You made the point that Richard’s magic cannot work in a neutral setting because it draws power solely from the magic of his universe, the magic of Orden. I disagreed, quoting a source that states the Han is internal to wizards in Goodkind’s world.

    That one’s still up in the air.

    Again, if I’ve missed any of your major points, please let me know, and I will apologize and work to remedy the situation, as I’ve done before. But don’t just say “YOU sir are really the one who is trying to cover up the the fact he has no counter argument, because despite all your words and gay crap, (you sound like a friggin kid trying to confuse me) you did not address my points” without explaining what those points are, or what arguments I am not supposed to have.

  91. aceofqueens September 4, 2010 at 1:28 am -      #91

    You purposely misinterpret me. I was saying that the magic of orden would of course not work in a neutral realm. Not that Richard’s magic wouldn’t work (though it might as well not work anyway.) Stop trying to tell me what I claim so you can try to make me look ridiculous. My six year old cousin would be ashamed to have done something like that.

    Let me clear something up: I do not promote mediocrity. I read books as well and have a good vocabulary. However, I do not talk like a nerd and try to sound smart. Thats what pompous jerks do. Just simply tell me why I’m wrong (telling me what *I* said does not count, and neither does going off topic.)

    About Richard’s magic:

    I would be more willing to accept Richard using magic in this fight if during the series Richard’s magic works how it’s supposed to. Half the time he’s fighting or even dying and no magic leaps to his fingertips, despite the fact that he is very needy and his life is very much on the line. Supposedly he gets exactly the right thing, exactly what he needs. If that were actually true, Rahl would have healed himself in Faith of the Fallen when kahlan stabbed him, or hit Denna with an area-of-affect spell not directly aimed at her, so he could avoid capture in Wizard’s First Rule. The list could go on pretty far, but I think I don’t need to tell you Richard’s magic is a plot device. Either Terry Goodkind stays out of this, or Terry butts in and says if Richard can obliterate Drizzt. If the ladder is the case, R.A. Salvatore gets to step in and manipulate the circumstances as well so that Drizzt has a personal army. Either one of these is a bad situation for Rahl.

    “My initial point: Richard is a bigger, stronger man. You claimed I was an idiot, etc., hadn’t read it, Drizzt was clearly stronger because he’d spent more time toning up or some such thing. I pointed out that a larger man will naturally develop more muscle mass, and Drizzt is only a little heavier than an average-sized woman anyway, so it’s almost impossible for him to stand up to Rahl, described as over six feet and powerfully built, strength on strength.

    No response from you.”

    This is prime example of telling me WHAT I SAID. I replied to your point with a clear, logical explanation and then you turn around and say I didn’t respond.

    Here is my counter argument to your point that Richard is stronger and bigger. Only with slightly different words.

    I clearly explained that Drizzt can pretty much take down Wulfgar in a wrestle, which is interesting since Wulfgar has MUCH more hand-to-hand experience than the seeker, and makes Rahl look like wimp.

    Brawn doesn’t always win. Drizzt is very capable of using tactics, cunning, finesse, and an intricate knowledge of vital spots and weak points on a persons body to defeat a bigger, stronger foe. If you can’t except this, your loss.

    As for your point that the trauma would kill Drizzt alone:

    Drizzt wears highly enchanted drow spider silk shirt. Keep in mind that the drow make the best armour in Drizzt’s world. It was stated specifically in the text that it would have taken half a dozen good hits from a highly enchanted blade to pierce it. Drizzt himself tried to pierce it with his highly enchanted scimitar and the man had not a scratch. Not even broken ribs or bruises from the trauma.

    I suppose its *theoretically* possible for Drizzt to die from force trauma alone, however, I very highly doubt it. A sword (that’s what Richard carries xD) is a cutting weapon, it isn’t designed to give high impact force trauma. Now, a mace killing Drizzt from force trauma is a legit possibility. Especially because the spider silk shirt is not hard, it is more elastic and not rigid.

    It would take multiple hits to cut through Drizzt’s shirt (that’s assuming rahl even scores a hit) and unless Richard gets through it, nothing is going to happen.

    On a completely different point: Tell me who is stronger, the guy who lifted weights for a little more than a year? Or the guy who lifted weights for 100 years and is just barely entering his prime?

    When I go to work out at the gym, I usually see my friend tim there. He has been lifting weights for much, much longer than I have. I started oh, maybe three months ago, but tim, he began to work out years ago. Tim is pretty much disgustingly ripped. He can lift like four plates with one arm. Me, since I have worked out less, I’m a lot weaker and can only lift about 50 with one hand.

    Now, I’m not saying Drizzt is Tim and richard is me, but you DO see where I’m going, correct?

    I think it highly unlikely that Richard’s sword will simply slice through Drizzt’s armor or scimitars with ease. Drizzt’s armor and swords as I already explained, are highly enchanted. You have read The Orc King, correct? If not, let me explain.

    A drow named Tos’un del armargo basically possessed a sword that cut through steel, wood, you name it, like butter. Similar to the way Richards sword of truth cuts through almost anything. Drizzt dueled Tos ‘un and won. How you ask?

    As Tos ‘un and Drizzt battled, Drizzt began to notice that his blocking scimitars acquired little notches from Tos ‘un’s sword. Normally ordinary swords wouldn’t mar Drizzt’s weapons at all.

    Obviously Drizzt’s blades are very durable. They are hardly affected by a Sword of truth like sword. Once Drizzt realized what was happening, he decided to block Tos’un’s sword on it’s flat rather than it’s edge and Drizzt beat him.

    Moving on…

    About the age thing, all I have to say is that it really doesn’t matter how old I am, whether I am three years old or thirty, it doesn’t change the fact I have these points you don’t address.

    I also see that you value pride. This is something I place high value on as well. You claim I’M not a addressing the points. This is again a silly antic, since anyone can see that I’m simply blending refutations with responses defending my pride.

    “You say I did not address your points. Good, that’s a start. I don’t think I missed anything relevant, but if I did, please point the instances out so we can actually get back to what we’re supposed to be doing. I too enjoy debating. What I don’t enjoy, or claim to enjoy (I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that shpiel about how much you love watching your pathetic opponent struggle for even a moment. Might be the ego talking, who knows, but once again…profile. I’ve seen your type before), is snapping back and forth with someone determined to make it personal. This is not personal. Let me repeat: this is NOT personal. If I point to errors you make, I am not trying to say you’re an idiot. If I tell you you’re being offensive, it’s only because you are. I have my pride, but I have small interest otherwise in getting into some sort of juvenile little pissing contest with you. ”

    Really? Because it seems getting into a pissing contest with me is exactly what you are trying to do. Yes, you are trying to insult me. I’m not stupid. Your trying to get into my head with all that “I know your type, blah blah” crap. I assure you, it’s not working. The only thing it does is show how you have nothing better to in this argument.

    I thought I was trying to enjoy a debate and this very cool website known as BankGambling.com, but apparently I’m actually trying to get into a “pissing contest” with a random guy. Apparently I have this massive ego and enjoy trying to sound tough on the internet.

    Looks like you figured it all out. Congratulations.

    “Again, if I’ve missed any of your major points, please let me know, and I will apologize and work to remedy the situation…”

    Yeah, you’ve evidently missed a lot of my points. Go back and read. I’m not going to repeat them again, just go back and look at my first three posts. Don’t come back till you have a well thought-out, totally legit refutation to my points. Please don’t come back and post if your just going to try to undermine me and make ridiculous attempts to make me look stupid. Everybody has access to what I said, and everyone can easily discover all these things you claim I say (or sometimes don’t say apparently) are false.

    If you can’t do this, don’t bother posting. It’s a waste of my time to continue this if you can’t do what I said above.

    Have a “wonderful” day filled with “prosperity” “friend”.

  92. Mike September 4, 2010 at 4:36 pm -      #92

    “Keep in mind that the drow make the best armour in Drizzt’s world. It was stated specifically in the text that it would have taken half a dozen good hits from a highly enchanted blade to pierce it. Drizzt himself tried to pierce it with his highly enchanted scimitar and the man had not a scratch. Not even broken ribs or bruises from the trauma.”
    – then drizzt’s world doesn’t use physics or drizzt does his classic slight slashing if it didn’t hurt him. i mean come on, what would real battles be like if people in the medival times donned full body chail mail and just stood there and took sword attacks for hours. that would be completely rediculous.

    “I clearly explained that Drizzt can pretty much take down Wulfgar in a wrestle, which is interesting since Wulfgar has MUCH more hand-to-hand experience than the seeker, and makes Rahl look like wimp. ”
    – don’t know for sure so you’ll have to confirm or deny, but; were they actually in a fight to the death? because people fight very differently when their life is on the line. and richard is extremely faster than wulfgar proven in the description of EVERY fight he was in in all the sot books. and faster if not smarter than some of the fastest fighters in his world (blade masters).

    “I suppose its *theoretically* possible for Drizzt to die from force trauma alone, however, I very highly doubt it. A sword (that’s what Richard carries xD) is a cutting weapon, it isn’t designed to give high impact force trauma.”
    – drizzt’s mail is what turns it to blunt trauma, energy doesn’t just dissapear. i’m sorry about dissing on you like i’m about to do, but of all the different points being made and argued about, this one shouldn’t be at all. only your lack of knowledge about blunt force trauma, how energy transfers, and the deffensive capabilities of mail are keeping this part of the argument alive.

    “On a completely different point: Tell me who is stronger, the guy who lifted weights for a little more than a year? Or the guy who lifted weights for 100 years and is just barely entering his prime?”
    – elfs have inherintly smaller muscle size than human’s in any world made up by anyone, and maybe if he looks like a 5′ & few inches arnold scharzzineggar he might be as strong as the average human male. but not richard who is, to quote the books, “stronger than most” And by the way richard didn’t lift weights to get strong, he did it all through hard manual labor in his everyday life.

    “Obviously Drizzt’s blades are very durable. They are hardly affected by a Sword of truth like sword. Once Drizzt realized what was happening, he decided to block Tos’un’s sword on it’s flat rather than it’s edge and Drizzt beat him.”
    – wow thought drizzt was a sword master. that’s how you are actually SUPPOSED to block with any single bladed sword.

    you’ll have to help me with this one, but you posted something earlier(i think) that i can’t find, about the D&D levels of drizzts swords right? what were they again.

  93. Tal September 4, 2010 at 5:37 pm -      #93

    Thanks, man. That looks like a much better post, from a debater’s perspective.

    Magic of Orden: Sorry if I misinterpreted you. As long as we agree that Rahl’s magic COULD work in a neutral location, we’re on the same page. I completely agree that his magic seems faulty and doesn’t work when it should. I just think it also has worked on numerous occasions, when, judging by the previous info, it really shouldn’t. This isn’t great writing on Goodkind’s part, but it does make absolutely saying Rahl couldn’t use magic against Drizzt difficult. I’m not arguing he absolutely WOULD have lightning bolts flying from his fists, just stating that we can’t know. It’s a potential threat to Drizzt.

    Ah, sorry. I thought the Wulfgar point fairly negligible. And on the contrary, I completely agree that finesse, skill, and knowledge of pressure points and so on is very central to openhand combat. My response was this: Wulfgar is stronger than Richard, true, but I’d say that he’s not nearly as skillful. Rahl has the kinesthetic memories of all the past seekers, whereas Wulfgar just has a few years’ training from Drizzt himself (i.e., Drizzt is likely to know what maneuvers he would use, even if he’d been teaching the man for a few hundred years, comparable to the combat know-how Rahl’s got stored up in his head). While we can assume most past Seekers were swordsmen (so Richard would probably have less intuitive grasp of, say, a battleaxe), grappling and open-hand combat is the most basic and obvious discipline for a warrior. Knights were not taught to fall apart and start blubbering if someone knocked their swords from their hands, and it’s reasonable to assume that at least some of Richard’s predecessors were trained in open-hand combat. Considering the sheer number of them, Richard is probably at or above Drizzt’s level, to say nothing of Wulfgar. So my point is: Drizzt is facing a man who is likely as skilled as he is himself, only stronger.

    You make a good point that the sword is generally a cutting weapon. Were Drizzt wearing plate armor, this would mean that the blunt force trauma would indeed be small danger. However, I don’t think you realize the sheer force a big man can generate with a full-bodied swing, particularly at the end of an arc of centrifugal force. You can literally kill someone, if you know where to strike, just by hitting them hard enough there with your fist. A sword increases your power exponentially. While it’s not as devastating as a maul or greatsword, granted, it could probably generate comparable trauma to a baseball bat. A two-hundred pound man swinging a big bat into your chest may crush your chest and puncture your lungs. If it hits your ribs, your bowels and kidneys will probably go. Arms and legs, broken bones–less severe, but it’ll definitely slow you down. God help you if it ends up in the solar plexus, throat, or face. How do you think Shaolin monks killed people with staves?

    On the strength issue…sorry, but you’re still not getting it. Yes, a man who has lifted weights more than another man is likely to get stronger…but only if he has a comparable build to begin with. An eighty-pound woman is never going to be able to match a big man, strength for strength. There are upper limits to how much you can expand your muscles. On top of that, the big proof is this: muscles increase weight. Drizzt is a little over five feet, and he’s not much heavier than Catti-Brie. Unless Catti-Brie has muscles like Schwarzanegger in his prime and walks around half again as broad as she is tall, Drizzt is just…genetically inferior in terms of pure power. Rahl’s a big dude, and he’s described as being muscular. Do’Urden is a little dude. Drizzt might be a strong guy for his size (even that’s debatable: Drizzt is generally described as more lithe and quick than he is musclebound, hinting at endurance muscle rather than strength–yeah there’s a difference) but he can’t match Rahl strength on strength any more than he could match Wulfgar. It’s just genetics, and weight behind your blows increases their power even beyond pure muscle mass in combat. Rahl has some staying power, because he’s heavier. Drizzt is likely to be able to be knocked down fairly easily if he’s hit.

    On the Sword of Truth’s possibility of penetrating the armor…I don’t really know if you’re responding to Mike, since I didn’t say anything about this. That said, in the interest of defending Mike, you’re once again citing an occasion in which Drizzt is facing a man of inferior skill to himself. Rahl, with equivalent or likely greater sword knowledge to Drizzt, could conceivably maximize such an effect to his own advantage. IF it actually worked against Drizzt’s scimitars, it would be another point in Rahl’s corner, another advantage. That said, I’m not sure it actually WOULD work. Drizzt’s blades and gear are enchanted, and I don’t think we can say with any degree of certainty that Rahl would be doing a knife/hot butter thing with them. At best, the whole idea is like Rahl’s magic: a “maybe/kinda advantage”. Say…half a point.

    I don’t think you have a massive ego. If you want to know, I think you adopted a persona and now you feel bound to follow it through even when it’s no longer useful. Nor, really, am I interested in insulting you. Sorry if it sounded that way. All I meant by “I know your type” is that I’ve seen people acting much the same way before, on other chat sites. My goal wasn’t really to get in your head so much as to let you know I wasn’t impressed so we could move on. I won’t say any more about that.

    As for your first three posts…

    You mention the magic thing. I think we’ve covered that. You also touch on Drizzt being faster than Rahl. That’s been acknowledged. You talk about Drizzt’s defeat of Dantrag Baenre, wielding Khazid’hea, as equivalent to Drizzt v. Richard. Once again, I’d argue that this isn’t quite accurate…Baenre was comparable to Drizzt in size and strength. You point to the accumulation of skill Drizzt’s picked up. As we’ve said, if anything, Rahl has the advantage there. He’s internalized the skills of hundreds of other warriors. In the final post, you equate the mode of the Hunter to the Dance of Death. I wouldn’t say so. The Dance of Death is actually a magical construct, while the Hunter mode is just a psychological one. The Hunter is basically just Drizzt disassociating himself from the world, if we want to look at it that way.

    *Shrug*

  94. aceofqueens September 4, 2010 at 10:39 pm -      #94

    1. Rahl has a NATURALLY larger build, this much is true, and yes, he is “stronger than most.” Drizzt too is likely “stronger than most” since he is a basically a veteran professional solider of 100 years.

    Yes, depending on your body, you can have a variety of maximum muscle capacity. Drizzt, being an elf, is probably reached his max muscle cap. Richard on the other hand, has great potential but I doubt he’s even approached his max. strength. It is pretty hard to say, so you know, what, I’ll settle for half agreeing with you. It’s about even.

    However, Drizzt is way faster and more lithe. His style relies on dodging, evading, and finesse more than armor and strength. Drizzt and Richards styles are completely different. Yes, I suppose Richard could theoretically pound Drizzt’s face in, but that doesn’t mean he’ll win.

    I would say Drizzt is just about as strong as Richard, and they both have experience with fighting in hand-to-hand and wrestling, and I think we can both agree Drizzt is more lithe and agile. So therefore I would say Drizzt wins in that area.

    However, Rahl has much more potential, and if he had been roaming the land and fighting for as long as Drizzt and had acquired his max muscle mass he could easily toss Drizzt around in hand to hand.

    2. About the armor thing:

    I’m not saying Drizzt could literally stand there for hours and be immune to Richard’s sword. I thought I stated that in the text of one of the Drizzt books, it said that Drizzt struck the spider silk shirt with his sword (which is a + 4 and his other one is a + 3, so some of the most powerfully enchanted swords in Drizzt’s universe) and he barely left a mark, it would have taken at least half a dozen cuts to slice through the fabric. What I am saying is that Richard would need to score multiple hits on Drizzt (at least in the chest) to pierce it and make the drow bleed. Combine this with Drizzt’s bracers of speed, uncanny agility and reflexes, and he’ll be WAY harder to hit that Richard, since Richard basically wears fancy war wizard clothes. Not very practical.

    3. I never said that Drizzt would beat Richard solely because he killed a guy with the same sort of sword as the sword of truth. All I’m saying is that Drizzt can deal with a sword that has a sword-of-truth-like enchantment.

    And if you must know, Tos’un was a very good swordsman and in fact, Drizzt almost lost the fight.

    the sword of truth’s enchantment is no big threat to Drizzt.

    4. Let’s say Rahl did bring in magic. A lot of things he uses frequently in the novels (magic-wise) are things that won’t exactly bother Drizzt to much.

    -Drizzt possesses an almost 100 percent immunity to flame. First of all, as you know, Icingdeath helps to protect him from magic fire. In addition, Drizzt has some innate drow magic resistance as I’m sure you new, and on top of these has his famous uncanny agility. He uses very effective defensive techniques late in the series that help reduce fire damage. When all of these factors are combined, the only fire damage he takes is some minor burns and scalds.
    -Drizzt has his darkness globes. He doesn’t need to use them centered ON Lord Rahl, all he has to do is obscure his position, and in the very least it can help him escape into the bushes or something from where he can use stealth. And if it happens to be night, Drizzt will be completely in his element, making him even more likely to win at this point.
    -I’m not sure if you have read as far as the Pirate King, but basically Drizzt starts carrying Catti-Brie’s bow Taulmaril, since she sustained a very bad injury and can no longer fight.

    If Richard wants to have a balls to the wall shootout, Drizzt can easily return fire with the wicked bow. That thing penetrates thick armor and magic wards. I would bet on the Heartseeker over a high velocity .308 round. It even goes through multiple orcs. And let us not forget that Drizzt is pretty decent with bows, but his main strength in ranged combat is his ability to rapid-fire a line of arrows (remember that the Heartseeker never runs out of arrows.)

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but Richard has never generated any type of protective magic, shields or illusions or stoneskin or anything like that, and even if he could, it wouldn’t matter, Taulmaril has a good chance of penetrating magic protections.

    I’d love to see Lord Rahl catch THOSE arrows…lol

    5. Yes, Rahl MAY KNOW MORE MOVES, we have already covered that. However, when it comes to fighting, practice makes perfect, and mind over matter.

    You claim I have no knowledge of martial arts disciplines, but it is you who don’t understand.

    Martial arts trainers have the correct idea about training.

    1. Practice makes perfect.
    The more you practice a movement, the more familiar it becomes. If you perfect the techniques with a great amount of repetition and will and discipline, you will acquire the muscle memory and become familiar with it, as if it was one of your senses.
    If I mouthed off to my sensei and we ended up fighting, he would most definitely win, even if I knew more moves and techniques. He is a blackbelt. He has been training and repeating those moves over and over. He gained a mastery of his movements by repeating them so much. He can punch faster and manipulate his movements better because they are automatic, they are like an instinct. He doesn’t even have to think about it. At my current skill level and training level, there is no way I could move as quick as him or think as fast.
    This applies very well to the Drizzt/Richard battle. Drizzt is like my sensei, he has repeated those movements, those slashes and whatnot, over and over again, and his own “moves” are instinctual and automatic, and much better than Richard Rahl (who would correspond with me) could perform his own techniques.
    Richard may know all of those endless techniques and moves, but you know as well as I do Drizzt has been doing his thing far longer than Richard Rahl has even been alive. Someone else (maybe you) said that he practiced his dance of death every day at morning since he acquired the knowledge of the seekers. However, he hasn’t been doing his thing for nearly as long as Drizzt has.
    Practice made Jimi Hendrix the beast that he is at guitar. The same goes for Slash, Angus Young, or any other guitar god.
    2. Mind over Matter.
    All the brawn and endurance in the world counts for nothing if you lack the passion for what you do, the instinctive nature, and the will. Drizzt has great love for what he does as far as fighting goes. He is not really evil, he’s quite a good person, and it’s just that when he is killing evil things or fighting for his life, he has a great passion for it. And as you know, Drizzt’s personality closely identifies with that type of survivalist nature, that instinctive killer, that love for the rush of battle. Half the battle is fought with the mind. It is mind over matter that allows Drizzt to frequently defeat foes with much greater experience, skill, or a superior physical attribute. It is what allowed Enteri to come close to matching Drizzt despite the fact Enteri is much, much younger and has far less experience. Enteri is a brutal killer, with a black heart and nothing inside. He had a superior instinct and attitude. He lost himself to his murderous personality and instinct and that is how much Enteri indulges in the feral side of him.
    In fact, it is that feral, brutal, animalistic other side that lead drizzt to the discovery of the hunter. Drizzt almost lost himself to that animal side that Enteri had submerged himself in, and as a result easily doubled his killing ability. However, Drizzt, using his discipline and will, took control of this murderous, feral side, and gains all the positives Enteri gained, that mindset that made Enteri nearly able to beat Drizzt, only Drizzt does not lose himself to it.
    Richard, on the other hand, dislikes fighting and can’t even stomach meat. He’s always blabbing about balance and wisdom. He’s more fit to be a lazy nobleman than a fighter. He lacks the drive, the determination, the passion, all things Drizzt has plenty of.
    Mind over matter.

    6. Since when does Drizzt get knocked over easily? Find me an example where is apparently very frail and is knocked over. Considering he is an elf with smaller bones and lower constitution, he is pretty strong and has tons of endurance.
    Remember the trip through the trollmoors? Drizzt hiked through mucky swamps for days without getting any sleep. He frequently had to fight Trolls and had to run a good amount of the time. The terrain was extremely difficult and at some points they were up to their waists or higher in water. At the very end, he lept into a horde of trolls and carved a path through, the only way his friends could find him was by the limbs and organs flying out of the crowd.
    This shows that through a great amount of stamina, determination, and will to survive Drizzt can go to extreme heights, far beyond any specific instances of Richards.
    7. I can’t believe I hadn’t thought of this. Drizzt has the faerie fire ability as well. He can use it to track Richard very easily if Richard tries to leave the fight and come back later, using stealth. It’s going to be impossible for Richard to flee or hide, and the bright firelight illuminates Richard and helps Drizzt to target vital points easier.
    That is all I have to say right now, may think of more later.

  95. aceofqueens September 4, 2010 at 10:53 pm -      #95

    @Mike
    “– then drizzt’s world doesn’t use physics or drizzt does his classic slight slashing if it didn’t hurt him. i mean come on, what would real battles be like if people in the medival times donned full body chail mail and just stood there and took sword attacks for hours. that would be completely rediculous.”

    Please try to understand that we are deaking with FANTASY here. In Fantasy, there are more powerful weapons and armor that in out world because hey, guess what, there’s magic. Yes, physics apply in Drizzt’s universe smartass. For somebody who is posting on a website devoted to deciding which fantasy characters would win in a fight, you don’t seem to understand the concept of fantasy.

    Please don’t post again if your just going to be a smart-ass. I don’t have the time to deal with people who get kicks off being a smart-ass and try to change what the topic is about. I have, multiple times, explained that the spidersilk shirt is enchanted and has extraordinary powers.

    Drizzt slashes the shirt. SMACK. Nothing happens. It’s a really good shirt. It’s probably within the enchantment itself to protect from not only cutting but trauma.

    Don’t jump way ahead and tell me then, that physics must not apply. Your endless nagging about physics is simply a catalyst to make you feel smart and logical. It’s a method of tricking yourself.

    “Force trauma right…yeah yeah…force trauma…hehe…that’s logical right? Yeah…hehe…it is…Drizzt loses now…haha…that’s logical…”

  96. Mike September 5, 2010 at 3:38 am -      #96

    “Drizzt slashes the shirt. SMACK. Nothing happens. It’s a really good shirt. It’s probably within the enchantment itself to protect from not only cutting but trauma”
    – your opinion not anything having to do with cannon or physics at all, sorry your point is mute.

    However, Drizzt is way faster and more lithe. His style relies on dodging, evading, and finesse more than armor and strength. Drizzt and Richards styles are completely different. Yes, I suppose Richard could theoretically pound Drizzt’s face in, but that doesn’t mean he’ll win.
    – richard’s style has used very well everything you say drizzt is good at too. read the books, i won’t state the obvious written by the author.

    I would say Drizzt is just about as strong as Richard, and they both have experience with fighting in hand-to-hand and wrestling, and I think we can both agree Drizzt is more lithe and agile. So therefore I would say Drizzt wins in that area.
    and my argument about force trauma is pertinent and logical to this fight, very much so actually, as much so as anyone slashing the other.
    – both tal and i have proven without a doubt that there is no way drizzt is as strong as richard. you have no point other than “i would say”. you made no point and we have made multiple verifiable points.

    -Drizzt possesses an almost 100 percent immunity to flame. First of all, as you know, Icingdeath helps to protect him from magic fire. In addition, Drizzt has some innate drow magic resistance as I’m sure you new, and on top of these has his famous uncanny agility. He uses very effective defensive techniques late in the series that help reduce fire damage. When all of these factors are combined, the only fire damage he takes is some minor burns and scalds.
    – feel sorry i have to even respond to this but fire isn’t the only thing he does, in fact, i don’t even recall him using fire, only lightning and kenetic energy. but fire is well within his warwizard repituar.

    If I mouthed off to my sensei and we ended up fighting, he would most definitely win, even if I knew more moves and techniques. He is a blackbelt. He has been training and repeating those moves over and over. He gained a mastery of his movements by repeating them so much. He can punch faster and manipulate his movements better because they are automatic, they are like an instinct. He doesn’t even have to think about it. At my current skill level and training level, there is no way I could move as quick as him or think as fast.
    This applies very well to the Drizzt/Richard battle. Drizzt is like my sensei, he has repeated those movements, those slashes and whatnot, over and over again, and his own “moves” are instinctual and automatic, and much better than Richard Rahl (who would correspond with me) could perform his own techniques.
    Richard may know all of those endless techniques and moves, but you know as well as I do Drizzt has been doing his thing far longer than Richard Rahl has even been alive. Someone else (maybe you) said that he practiced his dance of death every day at morning since he acquired the knowledge of the seekers. However, he hasn’t been doing his thing for nearly as long as Drizzt has.
    – you failed to realize that richard gained all knowledge of the seekers before him including how to do everything. ( over 3000 yrs.) it isn’t a, only this part or that. it’s everything, including instinctual. everything everyone has been before him he is now. don’t know where you get that other than assuming.

    “All the brawn and endurance in the world counts for nothing if you lack the passion for what you do, the instinctive nature, and the will. Drizzt has great love for what he does as far as fighting goes. He is not really evil, he’s quite a good person, and it’s just that when he is killing evil things or fighting for his life, he has a great passion for it. And as you know, Drizzt’s personality closely identifies with that type of survivalist nature, that instinctive killer, that love for the rush of battle. Half the battle is fought with the mind. It is mind over matter that allows Drizzt to frequently defeat foes”
    – substitute drizzt with richard and you just explained him also. you do realize that both these guys have basically the same beliefs right?

    “It is what allowed Enteri to come close to matching Drizzt despite the fact Enteri is much, much younger and has far less experience. Enteri is a brutal killer, with a black heart and nothing inside. He had a superior instinct and attitude. He lost himself to his murderous personality and instinct and that is how much Enteri indulges in the feral side of him.
    In fact, it is that feral, brutal, animalistic other side that lead drizzt to the discovery of the hunter. Drizzt almost lost himself to that animal side that Enteri had submerged himself in, and as a result easily doubled his killing ability. However, Drizzt, using
    his discipline and will, took control of this murderous, feral side, and gains all the positives Enteri gained, that mindset that made Enteri nearly able to beat Drizzt, only Drizzt does not lose himself to it.
    – sounds like that point Tal made about you going off about drizzts “awesome” accomplishments that have no meaning in this debate.(didn’t read back sorry if i quoted you out of context Tal).

    “6. Since when does Drizzt get knocked over easily? Find me an example where is apparently very frail and is knocked over. Considering he is an elf with smaller bones and lower constitution, he is pretty strong and has tons of endurance.”
    – simple logic determines this, just pick up a stick and hit a smaller person and they are far more likely to fall over, also connected to the “richard is stronger than drizzt” part. you have yet to counter this, just keep on saying “No he won’t”. that’s not debatable, just an opinion. there has been points made on richard’s part about this, not on drizzt’s.

    “Remember the trip through the trollmoors? Drizzt hiked through mucky swamps for days without getting any sleep. He frequently had to fight Trolls and had to run a good amount of the time. The terrain was extremely difficult and at some points they were up to their waists or higher in water. At the very end, he lept into a horde of trolls and carved a path through, the only way his friends could find him was by the limbs and organs flying out of the crowd.
    This shows that through a great amount of stamina, determination, and will to survive Drizzt can go to extreme heights, far beyond any specific instances of Richards.”
    – stamina= many times he’s fought for hours, too many to list, determination= he has NEVER given up in any situation, and will, well i’d feel stupid looking up all this because it’s basically his M.O. ask me again if you really want a specific instance without just writing about adventures about drizzt. i mean i could type some really interesting chapters about richard too, that had some meaning. or just tell you about how i ran through the swamp in my woods without falling too. it’s difficult but not that hard. and kinda funny it was when i was a little kid and stick fighting with my brothers too. really fun if you get the chance. even get the chance to do some armagedon now moves.

    . I can’t believe I hadn’t thought of this. Drizzt has the faerie fire ability as well. He can use it to track Richard very easily if Richard tries to leave the fight and come back later, using stealth. It’s going to be impossible for Richard to flee or hide, and the bright firelight illuminates Richard and helps Drizzt to target vital points easier.
    That is all I have to say right now, may think of more later.
    -uh….faerie fire? really? and if he tries to run away? are you trying to bring up a whole new subject to the conversation where someone runs away? someone can glow as much as they want, doesn’t make it any easier to spot a vital spot on anyone. if you know where the spot is, you know where it is. maybe if it was an otherwise unknown creature, but as far as i know from DMing faerie fire doesn’t even do that. just a low level spell to make someone glow a little.

    “Please try to understand that we are deaking with FANTASY here. In Fantasy, there are more powerful weapons and armor that in out world because hey, guess what, there’s magic. Yes, physics apply in Drizzt’s universe smartass. For somebody who is posting on a website devoted to deciding which fantasy characters would win in a fight, you don’t seem to understand the concept of fantasy.”
    – if you don’t put any reality to it you wouldn’t have any discussion at all, that’s how you make points between different fictional worlds. what is fact and physically possible, otherwise being faster or stronger wouldn’t mean anything. otherwise i could just say, well in richards world everything moves hundreds of times faster than drizzt’s so it would be like fighting a slowmotion short dark dude. but because there is no basis(physics) supporting that it would just sound stupid.(and i’m sure you’ll agree).

    “Please don’t post again if your just going to be a smart-ass. I don’t have the time to deal with people who get kicks off being a smart-ass and try to change what the topic is about. I have, multiple times, explained that the spidersilk shirt is enchanted and has extraordinary powers.

    Drizzt slashes the shirt. SMACK. Nothing happens. It’s a really good shirt. It’s probably within the enchantment itself to protect from not only cutting but trauma.

    Don’t jump way ahead and tell me then, that physics must not apply. Your endless nagging about physics is simply a catalyst to make you feel smart and logical. It’s a method of tricking yourself.

    “Force trauma right…yeah yeah…force trauma…hehe…that’s logical right? Yeah…hehe…it is…Drizzt loses now…haha…that’s logical…”
    -i changed no subject and in your D&D terms richard’s sword would be some sort of vorpal sword and be completely capable of cutting through everything drizzt has, but that’s not even my point, just something i noticed. drizzt’s mail as far as you described only has slashing defense, i saw no mention of force sheilding of any spell or inherit ability of spider silk. you have the burden of proof, so prove to me that blunt trauma won’t hurt him, not just “probably”. because even though opinions are accepted here, they aren’t valid in the debate.

  97. Mike September 5, 2010 at 3:54 am -      #97

    as long as i have been posting on this duel i have seen many reasons why richard should win. the only rebutle on drizzt’s behalf have been quelled by logic, physics, or by facts from the books. i see no reason why this should go any further. i vote richard rahl for the fact pile victory.

  98. aceofqueens September 5, 2010 at 3:35 pm -      #98

    I’m pretty much done with whinny, loudmouthed Richard Rahl fan girls who come on this website and screech about how Richard would win.

    One of this websites main focus is to determine who would beat who in a battle. So please don’t come on here and act like you know anything about fighting if you actually don’t.

    Yes, that means I’m talking to you mike and tal. Please, for the sake of everyone on here, stop pretending you know about the science of fighting. I’m asking you not to post only in concern for everybody on here who actually knows about fighting.

    For the record, you still haven’t told me why I’m wrong.

    1. Practice makes perfect.

    “Well, like…Richard was like, awesume skillz and stuff…he got like 3,000 years of xp huh huh huh hehe…..”

    No. I already explained to you why experience isn’t the only thing that matters. Unless you can act like a man and come back and defend yourself better than above, please just don’t post and go away.

    This whole argument you have been ignoring my multiple points because you wish they weren’t there. For once, please just address my argument and tell me straight up and logically why my points

    1. Practice makes perfect
    2. Mind over matter

    are wrong. You claim to not want to get into a pissing contest, so we’re done with that. I moved on. So you too, get over it. If you really didn’t want to get into a pissing contest, then stop blabbing and tell me why I’m wrong and keep it short.

    I can’t progress if you don’t tell me why I’m wrong.

    Ace out.

  99. Mike September 5, 2010 at 4:23 pm -      #99

    i just DID take your points and counter them, tal has done the same. “Practice makes perfect” what do you think getting the “skills” of the past seekers for 3000 years is…..3000 years of practice, he can do anything they can in a fight. and what’s this mind over matter about? don’t even know if you mentioned anything that broad based before, maybe, but even so richard’s will is at least matched to drizzt’s. sorry you get so mad when i make posts, but i make very valid points and just because you don’t understand them don’t assume i’m talking out of my ass. i do know alot about fighting. especially medieval. liked it and read about it since i was just a kid. if you want quick refferences about blunt force trauma i think the history channel has a neat show called fight science that has stuff on there. they take a crash test dummy put more equipment in there than usual and take real martial artists attacking it with and without all sorts of weapons from around the world.

  100. aceofqueens September 6, 2010 at 12:56 am -      #100

    Ok. Right. You win. Richard Rahl TOTALLY has better skills. Despite having ACTUALLY fought for a shorter time. He’s still better. Yep. You win.

    You sir, are the one who doesn’t understand the simple things I’ve explained over and over again. The reason I stopped talking about your points is because I already shot them down. We’re done with force trauma don’t you get it?

    “Force trauma, force trauma, force trauma, force trauma…”

    Let it go. Is that all you can talk about? Haha hell yeah it is that’s the only argument you have. It shows you have nothing else to say. Why else would you repeat it over and over again despite it being shot down?

    Stop trying to crucify the dead. Let the dead rest and worry about the living.

    You addressed point number 1. (practice makes perfect) so good job, much better.

    Apparently, Richard has 3,000 years of practice just from acquiring the knowledge about fighting, despite having only been practicing for a year or perhaps slightly more (he didn’t have his sword for a year in Faith of the Fallen.) Right. Only one year of actually fighting, but somehow he has got 3,000 years of practice supposedly. I didn’t know one year = 3,000. Sorry my bad. That makes perfect sense. ;)

    You don’t seem to understand my mind over matter point. It was not a spiel about willpower. It was talking about how the man who has an instinctive, animalistic personality can increase his fighting potential. Enteri had far less experience than Drizzt but still almost beat him simply because Enteri had a superior instinctive mind. Think of how much better Enteri became because of that, then think of Drizzt acquiring that animalistic, instinctive side (which he did) and vastly increasing his killing potential. And on top of this, Drizzt was already taking out fighters with much greater experience. Some with easily 5 times Drizzt’s experience. Drizzt has been known to event new moves that no one has ever conceived of for thousands of years.

    Richard might as well be a straw dummy, it’s going to be that easy.

    I don’t care what is on the history channel. I know that blunt force trauma exists, however I just explained that spider silk shirt can take up to 6 or 7 hits and you won’t be very hurt. Going beyond that, you could begin to start hurting the person. Unless Richard Rahl gets a miracle and somehow hits 6 (laughs) or even 7 times nothing serious is going to happen to Drizzt. It is a magic shirt, I thought I explained this is FANTASY we’re talking about here.

    And why haven’t you addressed my point about the whole Taulmaril the Heartseeker thing? I don’t think there is even any type of magic shield in SoT (which I think is sort of an obvious thing for wizards to need,) nor has Richard ever shown he can make a magic shield all he can create is lightning and fire which Drizzt is immune to, and lightning which Drizzt can dodge, sometimes just getting nicked by, but he has magic resist so a lightning nick hardly matters. Also Taulmaril penetrates most magic protections very well, in fact the arrows might as well be lightning. I mean seriously, how is our little apprentice supposed to avoid that bow? It’s arrows are like friggin .308 high velocity rounds. The sword fight is pretty much moot point.

    Richard: What the hell is that? Probably a minion of the Keeper (ooo scary) lets kill it guys!

    Drizzt: holy crap crazy fancy pants nobleman wearing faggy wizard clothes brandishing -one- longsword. *Draws bow* *nocks arrow*

    Richard: Dude look! A bowman! Quick! I’ll make a shield! Wait a sec…Dam i forgot i can’t even consciously control my magic…

    Drizzt: *Fires three arrows, all of them being out in the air before the first one hits.*

    Richard:….*chest filled with three holes, and knocked of his feet and burned*

    Drizzt: Crazy Bastard. Lets see if he has anything valuable…nope…ok let’s go.

    And no I don’t get mad when you post, I’m just stating the facts here. Stop telling me what I’m thinking and what I’m saying at that I don’t understand. Guess who is in my head? Yeah. ME.

    Goodbye.

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