Iron Fist Vs Vergil

Iron Fist Vs Vergil

Suggested by Nsl98

Iron Fist (Marvel) will go up against Vergil (DMC)

They encounter each other in feudal Japan, in the Emperor’s palace, fighting for his entertainment.

Who wins?

Related Posts:



Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.



1 2 Next »

161 Comments on "Iron Fist Vs Vergil"

  1. Amm0vamp1r3 May 26, 2015 at 12:03 am -      #1

    IF punched an aircraft carrier in half. Pretty sure that would end Vergil but vergil should be much too fast for IF to catch

  2. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 12:12 am -      #2

    Ironfist moves about a meter and kicks a dude before a bullet leaves the barrel.
    i.imgur.com/oaHaUL5.jpg

    Catches a bullet with his hand, which was shot from behind him i think.
    i.imgur.com/bTLtdCb.jpg

    Fights the superhuman avengers (wolvie, spidey, and cap). All of whom were likely holding back.
    i.imgur.com/0Se4hht.jpg

    Punched a train with explosives that make the hiroshima nuke look like a spark.
    He then absorbs all the energy from the explosives.
    imgur.com/a/r6lJA

  3. Nsl98 May 26, 2015 at 12:15 am -      #3

    What was Vergil’s calced speed?

    Some Iron Fist Reaction/Speed Feats
    Catching a bullet from behind:
    i.imgur.com/bTLtdCb.jpg

    Defeating some dude faster than a bullet leaves its barrel:
    i.imgur.com/oaHaUL5.jpg

    Hardcore bullet dodgery:
    i.imgur.com/36yVvCW.jpg

    Microsecond RT:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124811/3379083-3046687-ironfistv301page13.jpg

    The aforementioned Helicarrier feat:
    i.imgur.com/dS8o2eR.jpg

    Edit: Gosh dang it Rag. Ninja’d

  4. Friendlysociopath May 26, 2015 at 12:37 am -      #4

    What was Vergil’s calced speed?

    Ask Chuck English, he’ll tell you.

    Here’s Dante vs Vergil in DMC 3

    1st fight


    2nd fight


    3rd fight


    Also, is the manga canon btw? Because I got one for free at a convention and Vergil cuts about 5 thugs in half, multiple times, without even moving his hand in the panels.

  5. Kuja9001 May 26, 2015 at 12:44 am -      #5

    manga is canon

  6. Darth Bombad May 26, 2015 at 1:10 am -      #6

    Is this original Vergil or new Vergil?, cause the op just says DMC.

  7. Friendlysociopath May 26, 2015 at 1:11 am -      #7

    Oh good, found the parts I was looking for:

    www.mangareader.net/devil-may-cry-3/1/52
    www.mangareader.net/devil-may-cry-3/1/53

    Notice that’s the Thug’s hand in the first scan- not Vergil’s. The only time we see his hand move is in the 2nd scan after everyone has already been hit and chopped up.

    Not sure if that trumps his in-game speed feats, but it’s not actually in the games so I thought it worth mentioning.

    Is “Entertainment” a requirement or just flavor text? Cause Vergil shows off; not quite like Dante does, but in his own fashion.

  8. Limbo Lowk May 26, 2015 at 2:49 am -      #8

    Vergil kind of has the range advantage.
    youtu.be/HxxP6jlVVGE?t=1m43s
    1:43-2:10 shows his summoned swords. They can be fired, summoned around him, around his enemies above his enemies, and even uses his teleport in conjunction with with them.
    3:10 teleport blitz

    youtu.be/nitqpjBzQV0?t=1m24s
    Seems to split into three

    Can move pretty quick without teleport
    youtu.be/ttAL48BBTJ8?t=2m13s
    2:13-2:18
    Don’t know if it is a speed feat or just for show but it looks like it hall happened in the time it took for his cloak to fall.

  9. Limbo Lowk May 26, 2015 at 3:04 am -      #9

    Judgement cut
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiQtMuiv8_0
    Slash Dimension
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=he4hBdek-eI
    Range

  10. Chuck inglish May 26, 2015 at 3:38 am -      #10

    Vergil’s speed will be what wins him this match m.youtube.com/watch?v=WaNnPmdN-tA

  11. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 3:59 am -      #11

    Bullet travel speed: 370m/s
    Length of gun barrel: 10mm(?)
    Time taken for bullet to leave: 0.00003 seconds.

    Ironfist leaped about a meter and punched the dude in that time.
    Putting his lunging/punching speed at 33,333 m/s
    So Mach 97.

    This is “high end”, considering Ironfist likely had time to begin his movement before the trigger was pulled.
    But the comic strip makes it sound like Ironfist dispatched the dude WHILE the bullet was leaving the barrel.

    So even if we assume Ironfist lunged / closed the gap before the trigger was pulled, he still needed to punch the guy.
    So that’s still about 10,000 m/s.
    Mach 30.

    This is however all Ironfirsts STRIKING speed. Not movement speed.
    His movement speed if probably WAYYYYYYY less.

    Virgil might be able to move around significantly faster than IF… But i doubt he’s fast enough to dodge a punch like that.
    If he gets into IF’s range, he’s probably going to take the hit.

  12. Chuck inglish May 26, 2015 at 4:34 am -      #12

    “So Mach 97.”
    ==
    Has to be an outlier
    ==
    Vergil is able to attack and cover the the whole battlefield in an instant with pure speed alone. I wish there was some way to calc this for vergil.. This should count as attack and movement speed youtu.be/Ar8lWrY-vsQ (5;54) mark

  13. Kitten Lord May 26, 2015 at 5:27 am -      #13

    Ill go with Vergil, his range is a massive advantage as is his teleport. Combined this means no matter how fast IF is with his strikes, hes never going to be able to perform them. A few of those blade beams and hes likely to be diced.

    And I loled at that fellows reaction to that move….

  14. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 7:33 am -      #14

    “Vergil is able to attack and cover the the whole battlefield in an instant with pure speed alone. ”

    All the enemies were lined up quite nicely in a circle circumference.
    3m radius, circumference = 2pieR = 18.8

    The attack took almost an entire second to perform,
    So that’s 18.8-56.4 m/s just to cross the distance.
    So that’s Virgils estimated movement speed. Which seems perfectly in-line with the last video chuck posted of Virgil dashing around the battlefield.

    Every enemy looks like he was hit almost 5 times,
    So for the strikes to keep up with the movement speed, it would be 94-282 m/s
    Which again, seems pretty consistent with his other showings.

    Still below the speed of sound.

    Keep in mind it took Virgil about 2 seconds of standing still & charging up the attack.

  15. Nsl98 May 26, 2015 at 9:15 am -      #15

    Iron Fist can move FTE:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/139138/2869007-bdbdbd3kx.jpg

    People don’t even know what’s going on when IF fights:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137152/3669905-7458840127-33621.jpg

    Iron Fist has some decent movement imo.

  16. Aelfinn May 26, 2015 at 11:42 am -      #16

    “So Mach 97.”

    Oh, come on, Ragnorke, when have you seen a gun with a 10 mm long barrel? Lol that’s ridiculously short. Not to mention that the comic doesn’t say “BEFORE the bullet leaves the barrel”, but it says “AS the bullet leaves the barrel”, which could mean anything.

  17. MatthiasTheWanderer May 26, 2015 at 12:21 pm -      #17

    Just sticking my nose in for a bit, but Iron Fist would have to have a still target to throw a punch like that anyway. Unless you have a character that consistently fights at those speeds, an attack that fast can’t be aimed after you’ve committed to it, so he would need to aim that punch at a target moving at Vergils combat speeds, which are absurd, and hope he doesn’t miss.

  18. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 9:34 pm -      #18

    @Aelfinn
    “Oh, come on, Ragnorke, when have you seen a gun with a 10 mm long barrel?”

    I don’t know jack shit about guns, thus the question mark at the end of 10mm.
    Holy shit though, i totally didn’t think that through. Yea that’s kinda ridiculous.
    Surprised no one called me out of that sooner.

    I also didn’t take acceleration into consideration. Which would slow the entire process down quite a bit.

    I’ll redo it in a bit!

    ” Not to mention that the comic doesn’t say “BEFORE the bullet leaves the barrel”, but it says “AS the bullet leaves the barrel”, which could mean anything.”

    It means he did his action AS the bullet was leaving the barrel.
    Which literally means the same thing as “he did his action before the bullet left the barrel”

  19. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 9:40 pm -      #19

    “an attack that fast can’t be aimed after you’ve committed to it, so he would need to aim that punch at a target moving at Vergils combat speeds, which are absurd, and hope he doesn’t miss.”

    The difference really isn’t that large.

    Vergils movement speed is only like 20 m/s
    Whereas IF has caught bullets mid-air which are above 360 m/s

    Vergils combat speed is still less than Mach 1 from the feats iv seen, whereas IFs combat speed is significantly higher.

    If Vergil ever comes into melee range, he’s going to lose.
    Aside from that, he can probably just keep running away and using ranged attacks.

    However, Ironfist does have the ability to absorb energy.
    So… Are Vergils ranged attacks energy based…?

  20. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 9:52 pm -      #20

    A few more feats:

    Dodging an entire squad of machine gun fire
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11116/111160825/4291266-9664768925-10885.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11116/111160825/4291268-5252928391-10678.jpg

    He has a few ranged energy attacks too:
    cs616524.vk.me/v616524704/13faf/WCqqAGMfuwQ.jpg
    cs618430.vk.me/v618430704/15892/H-Rx3nnzszs.jpg

  21. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 9:57 pm -      #21

    Just an idea of how fast he can punch:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111118828/3147629-ironfist11.jpg

    Keep in mind Black Panther is a character that can casually dodge machine gun fire too:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111118828/3147628-blackpanther39p18.jpg

    He can absorb magical energy too:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111118828/3147663-64873_starr1_122_572lo.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111118828/3147664-ironfist07-ironfirstmustdie-11.jpg

  22. Aelfinn May 26, 2015 at 10:04 pm -      #22

    “It means he did his action AS the bullet was leaving the barrel.
    Which literally means the same thing as “he did his action before the bullet left the barrel””


    I think it’s another bullet-dodging feat. It says “But even as the bullet leaves the barrel, Iron Fist moves-“, which seems to say that as the bullet left the barrel, Iron Fist moved, not necessarily that he started moving when the bullet started moving down the barrel.

  23. MatthiasTheWanderer May 26, 2015 at 10:18 pm -      #23

    “Whereas IF has caught bullets mid-air which are above 360 m/s”

    Umm, does the part of the first fight where Vergil casually catches five or six bullets on his sword and lines them up like dominoes because he can not count as equal to or greater than catching bullets?

    “However, Ironfist does have the ability to absorb energy.
    So… Are Vergils ranged attacks energy based…?”

    What kinds of energy can he absorb? They’re all magic based, I think. Some of them might be airwaves, I’m not sure.

  24. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 10:29 pm -      #24

    “Umm, does the part of the first fight where Vergil casually catches five or six bullets on his sword and lines them up like dominoes because he can not count as equal to or greater than catching bullets?”

    That doesn’t change Vergils movement speed though, which is still only about 20 m/s.
    And both Vergil & IF are capable of catching/hitting things moving that fast.

    Your argument was that Ironfists punches don’t matter if he can’t “catch” Vergil with it, but there’s no reason why he wouldn’t be able to.

    “What kinds of energy can he absorb? They’re all magic based, I think. Some of them might be airwaves, I’m not sure.”

    He absorbed a nuke and was totally fine,
    He also absorbed magical energy waves (which i posted in my last comment)

    And how much “damage” are these ranged attacks shown to do btw?
    They might not even tickle IF.

  25. MatthiasTheWanderer May 26, 2015 at 10:33 pm -      #25

    “And how much “damage” are these ranged attacks shown to do btw?
    They might not even tickle IF.”

    Does he have any outstanding durability? I was under the impression that he was peak human there? They seem to do the same damage as a sword slash from the guy…

    Also, has anyone mentioned devil trigger yet, or any of the other weapons he has besides the Yamato?

  26. Limbo Lowk May 26, 2015 at 10:45 pm -      #26

    “Your argument was that Ironfists punches don’t matter if he can’t “catch” Vergil with it, but there’s no reason why he wouldn’t be able to.”

    Vergil is teleporter though negating the actual need to move. He can move fast like Dante(at least dmc3 dante), but he can also teleport.
    ===
    “And how much “damage” are these ranged attacks shown to do btw?”

    Under the range feat his sword slices a giant solid stone structure in half.
    ===
    “Does he have any outstanding durability?”

    Haven’t kept up on Iron Fist but Powerman has shown Chi can be used to protect yourself.

  27. Ragnorke May 26, 2015 at 11:00 pm -      #27

    @Lowk
    “Vergil is teleporter though negating the actual need to move. He can move fast like Dante(at least dmc3 dante), but he can also teleport.”

    Right, which means it’ll help him run away.
    That doesn’t change the fact that if he’s in melee range of IF, he’s likely dead.

    “Under the range feat his sword slices a giant solid stone structure in half.”

    I honestly don’t think that’s enough to hurt Ironfist.
    Even ignoring the fact that he can absorb energy & magic.

    @Mathias
    “Does he have any outstanding durability? I was under the impression that he was peak human there? ”

    He survived getting hit by a freight train with a nuke in it. Or rather, he actually destroyed the entire train & absorbed the nukes energy.
    He wasn’t even scratched afterwards.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128469/2462582-train_ironfist.jpg

    He survived jumping out of a jet without any equipment:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/2571240-2444273_blackpanther40p18.jpg

    He survived ramming into a helicopter:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111160825/4291270-9242011277-10255.jpg

    He survived being blasted all the way to a different city:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111160825/4291372-8134118249-15108.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111160825/4291373-9569069811-11748.jpg

    There’s a lot more, but he’s definitely up there in terms of street level comic characters.

  28. Limbo Lowk May 26, 2015 at 11:08 pm -      #28

    “What kinds of energy can he absorb? They’re all magic based, I think. Some of them might be airwaves, I’m not sure.”

    His summoned swords are magic.
    His other long range option range from the razor wind trope to the blade being able to cut things real good. Including things like space and/or dimensions.

  29. Limbo Lowk May 26, 2015 at 11:24 pm -      #29

    “I honestly don’t think that’s enough to hurt Ironfist.
    Even ignoring the fact that he can absorb energy & magic.”

    Only his summon sword are really the only direct magic attacks. The some of the other attacks aren’t firing magic at you to be absorbed.
    ===
    “There’s a lot more, but he’s definitely up there in terms of street level comic characters.”

    True but his enhanced durability is based on chi. Can he maintain it infinitely or can it be worn down.

  30. Alpha or Omega May 27, 2015 at 12:44 am -      #30

    @Matthius
    “What kinds of energy can he absorb? They’re all magic based, I think. Some of them might be airwaves, I’m not sure.”
    /
    The airwaves are actually dimensional attacks.
    /
    @Ragnorke
    “He survived getting hit by a freight train with a nuke in it. Or rather, he actually destroyed the entire train & absorbed the nukes energy.
    He wasn’t even scratched afterwards.”
    /
    By the looks of it, it doesn’t look like he tanked the nuke.
    It looks more like him destroying the train and the explosives along with it than the explosives exploding.
    /
    @Lowk
    “Under the range feat his sword slices a giant solid stone structure in half.”
    /
    For reference
    youtu.be/7Rz2ivHHCug?t=355
    The “cultural artifact” is actually a large Hellgate.
    About 3 times bigger than buildings mind you and not hollow when it’s shown to be cut.
    Granted, it was with more than one swing and the Hellgate does look withered.

  31. Friendlysociopath May 27, 2015 at 1:08 am -      #31

    Granted, it was with more than one swing and the Hellgate does look withered.

    Looks like only one swing to me; only one we saw travel the distance and impact the gate.
    Perhaps the rest were just the traditional, “I got a new weapon, must flourish it!” routine Dante does every time he gets a new weapon?

  32. Alpha or Omega May 27, 2015 at 1:24 am -      #32

    “Perhaps the rest were just the traditional, “I got a new weapon, must flourish it!” routine Dante does every time he gets a new weapon?”
    /
    Eh, eh, yea. Seems that way.
    My bad.

  33. Ragnorke May 27, 2015 at 1:26 am -      #33

    @AoO
    “By the looks of it, it doesn’t look like he tanked the nuke.
    It looks more like him destroying the train and the explosives along with it than the explosives exploding.”

    Possibly. Eitherway he tanked a speeding train (+ the resultant explosion from its destruction) head first without a scratch.

    Here’s the rest of it
    i.imgur.com/NNRTclg.jpg
    i.imgur.com/gWV8eYZ.jpg

    “The “cultural artifact” is actually a large Hellgate.
    About 3 times bigger than buildings mind you and not hollow when it’s shown to be cut.”

    Do we actually know anything about its density though…?
    It didn’t really make a huge “thump” when it collapsed.

    Also, it isn’t THAT big. The buildings around it are just relatively flat buildings, like churches and houses.
    It looks the size of an office building.

    “The airwaves are actually dimensional attacks.”

    Wouldn’t that still just be Elementally Compatible to… Well.. Magic?

    @Lowk
    “True but his enhanced durability is based on chi. Can he maintain it infinitely or can it be worn down.”

    It can probably be worn down. I’ll try to find some more info on it.

  34. Ragnorke May 27, 2015 at 1:30 am -      #34

    So what’s Vergils counter to:
    ispeakcomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/screen-shot-2011-08-08-at-4-01-36-pm.png

    or
    imgur.com/a/lbn7p (The last scan)

    IF used the technique (twice), to insta-kill a guy equally as durable and fast as him.

  35. Alpha or Omega May 27, 2015 at 2:09 am -      #35

    “Do we actually know anything about its density though…?
    It didn’t really make a huge “thump” when it collapsed.”
    /
    Accuracy is not apart of Devil May Cry.
    The same game made by the same people now in Platinum Games studio.
    /
    “Also, it isn’t THAT big. The buildings around it are just relatively flat buildings, like churches and houses.
    It looks the size of an office building.”
    /
    Eh, I guess “big” is relative to people.
    youtu.be/Ar8lWrY-vsQ?t=172
    The size of the buildings compared to Vergil.
    I will agree that it’s the size of an office building.
    /
    “Wouldn’t that still just be Elementally Compatible to… Well.. Magic?”
    /
    *Shrug*
    The sword is magical, so sure?

  36. Limbo Lowk May 27, 2015 at 2:40 am -      #36

    “Wouldn’t that still just be Elementally Compatible to… Well.. Magic?”

    Spatial manipulation it think is the term.
    Has Danny ever absorb cuts in dimensions? I know chi can get pretty ridiculous in marvel but it doesn’t seem like the sort of thing that is absorbent, especially if it isn’t really projected.

  37. Limbo Lowk May 27, 2015 at 2:51 am -      #37

    “to insta-kill a guy equally as durable and fast as him.”

    Well the video’s at the top reminded me of his barrier.
    Anyone got any good power feats for Dante around DMC 3 time? Vergil barrier seems to take whatever he can dish out.
    ===
    And I think I found the reasoning behind this match.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEkmsMLJ2dc
    It was the Beowulf gauntlets wasn’t it?

  38. TheSorrow May 27, 2015 at 6:25 am -      #38

    Vergil’s sword would more than likely be considered magical in nature considering it was used to open the demon world. I would be rather dubious about Iron Fist being capable of handling it though.

  39. Kitten Lord May 27, 2015 at 8:04 am -      #39

    @Lowk

    “Anyone got any good power feats for Dante around DMC 3 time? Vergil barrier seems to take whatever he can dish out.”

    DMC 3 Dante is not that strong, DMC 4 dante has the strength feat of taking the Savior whereas in DMC 3, he punches a small stone statue and the force does not damage the statues body but travels up and smashes the head;


    I think that was “supposed” to be impressive.

    The best bet is to calculate Dantes speed, take it into account in his swings and then calc pressure from that. So Dantei s what? At least supersonic in his sword movements?

    Supersonic acceleration behind a blade that is at least as an estimate less than a millimeter thick, probably 0.1 mm.

    Ime still with Vergil teleporting back and swinging blade beams “through” IF, none of the durability feats from the man suggest he can take blade beams that slice through large slabs of stone. This is Broly vs Hulk again, with IF being hulk only far far less durable but just as immobile compared to someone who can make distance with ease.

  40. Ragnorke May 27, 2015 at 12:16 pm -      #40

    “So Dantei s what? At least supersonic in his sword movements?”

    Is he?
    Can someone show me where this is shown? Not sarcasm but a genuine question.

    “Supersonic acceleration behind a blade that is at least as an estimate less than a millimeter thick, probably 0.1 mm.”

    Well you do need to consider their attacks are magical in nature.
    Magic being a wild-card in pretty much any fiction.
    We go by the feats we see of the characters when it comes to magic, nothing else.
    Stacking calculations wouldn’t be wise here, but go ahead if you want to.

    “Ime still with Vergil teleporting back and swinging blade beams “through” IF,”

    Well IF dodged a barrage of assault rifle fire from a dozen trained shooters.
    Where has Vergil shown RT & Combat Speed such as that?

    ” none of the durability feats from the man suggest he can take blade beams that slice through large slabs of stone.”

    Pretty sure not having a single scratch or bruise from a speeding train crashing into him > sword that slices through stone.

    “This is Broly vs Hulk again,”

    Right…
    If Hulk was faster than Broly in combat…
    And if Hulk could summon a giant fire dragon that instantly kills someone of equal durability to Hulk…

  41. Limbo Lowk May 27, 2015 at 1:23 pm -      #41

    “Where has Vergil shown RT & Combat Speed such as that?”

    In his battle with Dante he is able block bullets fired from his firearms from close range. At the time Dante’s fire arms consist of a his handguns, a shotgun, and an anti tank rifle.
    The hand guns have a high rate of fire. A shotgun has a spread. And the rifle has a high muzzle velocity.

  42. Riverlia May 27, 2015 at 1:42 pm -      #42

    *Is he?
    Can someone show me where this is shown? Not sarcasm but a genuine question.*
    —–

    1:20 – 1:28

    This one was already shown, but whatever.

    0:17 – 0:29

  43. Friendlysociopath May 27, 2015 at 2:03 pm -      #43

    Key note in the first clip Riverlia posted- when it cuts to them trading blows @1:24 you can’t see rain falling anymore.
    As a matter of fact, isn’t that a raindrop suspended in the air in the bottom left? (hard to tell).

  44. Kitten Lord May 27, 2015 at 2:14 pm -      #44

    @Rag

    “Is he?”

    Well i think it was supersonic movement speed, based on the scene I showed above of him running down the tower and him heating up due to friction.

    “Well IF dodged a barrage of assault rifle fire from a dozen trained shooters.
    Where has Vergil shown RT & Combat Speed such as that?”

    He would not need to, since as shown the blade beam was wide enough to cut through a “office block” sized building. Not only is this beam extremely wide unlike a bullet but also likely impossible for him to see. If Vergil just spams swing after swing in all different directions, especially as fast as he does when catching bullets even if IF could observe the blade beams they would be dozens of mteters long and coming in a potentially unpredictable pattern…

    “Pretty sure not having a single scratch or bruise from a speeding train crashing into him > sword that slices through stone.”

    Not so sure about this, even if a train speeded into him, the area of the strike would be pretty huge compared to the tiny surface areas of a sword, especially something tiny like Yamato.

    On top of that, i am with A&O said, it looks just like the train getting smashed, not that he tanked a nuke, the train hardly got to him and he pulverized it, that’s my interpretation. If it did hit him you would imagine the thing would have knocked him over.

  45. PsImplosion May 27, 2015 at 4:20 pm -      #45

    Yamato: “A memento from Vergil’s father. This samurai-esque sword’s blade is said to cut through anything.”
    Likely a hyperbole but since it does obviously have magic and cuts through dimensions. . What that means relative to Iron Fist, I don’t know because I don’t know a lot about Iron Fist. just throwing stuff out there for more knowledgable people to interpret.

    ———————-

    Vergil has DT which lets him regain some vitality (i guess that would be interpreted as stamina and how worn down Vergil is) as shown in game. As this ability does not contradict anything shown outside of gamplay, I wouldn’t call this game mechanics. DT also mitigates a lot of damage and gives Vergil resistance to crowd control and some deadly attacks like Nevan’s kiss. Add this to his regeneration (he got cut in half in a weakened state and regenerated instantly) and Vergil becomes a durability powerhouse.

    ——————————-

    Vergil’s summoned swords can be used while fighting. That means his opponents will have to dodge or be peppered by summoned swords throughout the fight. Vergil can also make it rain summoned swords as seen in DMC4SE. The level of control demonstrated makes the summoned swords a pretty big asset.

    —————————

    For speed, here’s a Dante bullet catch feat. from 00:38 – 00:51
    Can be applied to Vergil as well because they are shown to be near equal with Vergil being slightly superior.

    —————————————-

    Also can someone explain the Iron Fist 1hit KO attack? I read the links but it was kinda confusing what was happening. This is vital because it Vergil might be able to resist with DT.

  46. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 12:31 am -      #46

    So, Danny Rand beat Ragnorak (evil Thor clone).

    No, i’m not trying to compare Ragnorak to Thor, but Ragnorak does have feats of his own.
    He fought the entire Avengers team, and eventually went toe-to-toe with Hercules (and got killed).

    www.universomarvel.com.aq/wolverine/wolverine_ragnarok_1.jpg

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3847922-ragnarok+2.jpg

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125203/3254476-7811349867-wrQ7U.jpg

    25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1ez9d8AN91qjnvdlo1_500.png

    As you can see from the scans, he was a casual building buster, and tanked hits from Wolverine, Spiderman, & Power Man.
    Iron Fist knocked him out in one punch.

    Oh, and Iron Fist knocked out Skaar, also in one punch i think. (son of hulk, strong enough to cause Earthquakes)
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/106762/4056581-9803017988-23367.png

  47. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 12:42 am -      #47

    Seriously though,

    He breaks giant robots with his Fist:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/4/45351/3822693-na+14_0019.jpg

    He breaks a giant Carrier with his Fist (Hydra i think):
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45351/3822718-3.jpg

    He breaks another giant Carrier with his Fist (You can actually see its full size in this one):
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45351/3822710-na+13_0014-0015.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45351/3822712-na+13_0017.jpg

    He breaks a helicopter by jumping through it:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/45351/3822585-iron+fist+-+the+living+weapon+001-015.jpg

    And of course, he stopped/destroyed a speeding train coming straight at him, by punching it.

    He will NOT be affected by a sword that cuts through stone or steel. Seriously.
    His fist does that all the time without so much as a scratch. In fact his fists rip through heavily military armored steel.

  48. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 1:37 am -      #48

    But i guess you want proof of him taking hits from something “Sharp”…
    Well he fought Black Panther, who’s much stronger than just cutting through stone.
    And his Vibranium Claws are likely much sharper than Virgils sword.

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/2571213-2444258_blackpanther39p05.jpg

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/2571228-2444266_blackpanther39p14.jpg

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/2571231-2444268_blackpanther39p16.jpg

    And this is what Ironfists speed was like:
    www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2571218
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/2571233-2444270_blackpanther39p18.jpg

    It was later described as Black Panther being hit by a thousand freight trains.

  49. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 1:41 am -      #49

    Ironfist also knocked out Hercules (he appears drunk) in one punch:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11112/111123678/3663070-7564486903-24611.jpg

    The range on his Fire Dragon Technique thing is actually pretty large:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/79709/2318276-avengersnew25b_redhead_iron_fist_vs_phoenix.jpg
    If Vergil even comes in the general vicinity, he’s dead.

    Andddd claim of Ironfists reactions being faster than lightning.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2867671-iron_fist_v3_01_page20.jpg

    I already know it’s just a “claim”, but:
    1. It’s consistent with his other reaction feats,
    2. The context in which it was stated didn’t appear to be a boast or a lie.
    It was a “i respect your incredible reaction time, even though you’re my enemy”

  50. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 2:06 am -      #50

    @Lowk
    “In his battle with Dante he is able block bullets fired from his firearms from close range.”

    That honestly doesn’t compare to blocking/dodging bullets from ASSAULT RIFLES, from over a DOZEN different sources.

    @Riveria
    “1:20 – 1:28″

    So… Them trading blows when the rain drops appear relatively still?
    Rain only moves at 8 m/s…

    In the video, the rain appeared to be moving at lets say 0.1m/s, so 80 times slower than normal.

    Whereas the characters were swinging at about once every half a second, with an average swing covering a meter.
    2m/s x80 = 160 m/s.

    Whereas Sonic Speed (mach 1) is 340 m/s
    And Supersonic (mach 1.2- mach 5) goes from 410-1,700 m/s

    All the wank in the world doesn’t justify that feat as Super Sonic.
    Not even half of Sonic speed actually, arguably Sonic if you wanna take a high-end estimate.

    “0:17 – 0:29″

    If you notice, Vergil was already swinging his sword around by the time the bullets left the barrel.
    That implies what we call “aim blocking”, where you predict something is going to happen, and prepare to block against it in advance.

    However, even ignoring the aim blocking aspect of it,
    Speed of bullet 1,200 m/s,
    Two characters seemed almost 10 meters away from each other,
    0.008 seconds travel time.

    Moving a meter in that time period is 125 m/s.

    The movement of all of Vergils hand “spins” at that time wouldn’t have been more than 2 meters.
    So that’s 250 m/s – 375 if pushing it.

    Again, it’s BARELY Mach 1 sonic.
    No amount of wank makes it Supersonic.

    Note that these 2 feats are PERFECTLY consistent with the video Chuck posted in post #12,
    Which i then calculated in post #14,
    And determined Vergils attack there to be less than Mach 1 Sonic as well.

  51. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 2:16 am -      #51

    @Kitten
    “If Vergil just spams swing after swing in all different directions, especially as fast as he does when catching bullets even if IF could observe the blade beams they would be dozens of mteters long and coming in a potentially unpredictable pattern…”

    Yet there’s still no evidence to suggest they would kill IF. He could tank a few hits while closing the gap.
    His short term movement speed is superior to Vergils, and his RT is superior to Vergils.
    He just needs to close the gap enough for the giant fire dragon move, which has a radius of a dozen meters atleast.

    “On top of that, i am with A&O said, it looks just like the train getting smashed, not that he tanked a nuke, the train hardly got to him and he pulverized it, that’s my interpretation. If it did hit him you would imagine the thing would have knocked him over.”

    What on earth do you mean “the train hardly got to him”?
    He leaped with his fist out, as the train was coming towards him.
    He punches the train and destroyed it…
    There’s literally no other interpretation of it.
    Whether the nuke went off or not is debatable, sure, but there’s no doubt he destroyed it with his fist.

    And no, it wouldn’t have knocked him over, since he was obviously durable enough to tank it without a scratch.
    Would the train have knocked over Hulk too?
    That logic is absolutely flawed.

  52. Kitten Lord May 28, 2015 at 3:31 am -      #52

    @Rag

    “Yet there’s still no evidence to suggest they would kill IF. He could tank a few hits while closing the gap.”

    not based on the feats so far shown.

    “He just needs to close the gap enough for the giant fire dragon move, which has a radius of a dozen meters atleast.”

    How can you close a “gap” between yourself and a teleporter? Ive not seen anything that would say that he could cross miles in seconds yet clearly, Vergils blade beam range is at least that.

    “What on earth do you mean “the train hardly got to him”?”

    He smashed it before it went into him.

    “He punches the train and destroyed it…”

    Right with this sort of “energy” fist thing on his knuckles.

    “And no, it wouldn’t have knocked him over, since he was obviously durable enough to tank it without a scratch.
    Would the train have knocked over Hulk too?
    That logic is absolutely flawed.”

    I would wager the Hulk is quite a lot heavier than IF.

    Had the train actually flew into him without him doing anything then it would be a durability feat but since he hit it with a ton of force enough to at the very least smash the cab into bits it was not the same as the train rolling into him.

    He only had to output enough power to blow the train, its not like he stopped its momentum of it hitting into him.

    This still does not mean anything, the only way we can calc a feat is if we know how strong the train is, which is not likely possible, same with how powerful the explosion of the train was, again, not likely possible since we do not see much to compare to in the scene.

    I doubt smashing a train is some amazing feat that is going to give him credit over a spam of meters wide blade beams that can cut through large slabs of stone like butter.

    Not enough time at the mo to look at your new stuff though above but I will later on.

    “He will NOT be affected by a sword that cuts through stone or steel. Seriously.
    His fist does that all the time without so much as a scratch. In fact his fists rip through heavily military armored steel.”

    Again this is not just a question of the materials but the surface area. Him punching through something does not mean he cannot be harmed by something far smaller than square inches (a fist) like less than square millimeters applied to his body.

    Sharp weapons like swords are overlooked too often, slicing someone with a sword requires hundreds if not thousands of less force to do the same damage with a punch. Ill look over your black panther stuff as I said before, time is not my ally at the moment.

    As a side note, carriers, at least real ones are not armored, their steel. So him punching them or cracking them is the equivalent of punching steel unless beyond size the carriers have durability feats.

    The fact they fly as well makes me lean towards even lighter materials.

  53. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 6:01 am -      #53

    @Kitten
    “not based on the feats so far shown.”

    Yea, Vergil can’t tickle IF based on the feats so far.

    “How can you close a “gap” between yourself and a teleporter?”

    Vergils teleporting would still depend on his RT.
    Unless you’re saying he can subconsioucly teleport away to safety every time someone is about to hit him without needing to think about it…?

    And anyways, since when is that in Vergils character?
    Has Vergil EVER done that in a fight?
    Teleport away immediately and spam ranged attacks?

    ” Ive not seen anything that would say that he could cross miles in seconds ”

    We never assume characters start “miles” away from each other at the start of a match unless specified.
    It’s generally accepted that they start at close range.

    “He smashed it before it went into him.”

    Wha… What…?
    You mean he used his Chi to smash it?
    Because you realize he covers his entire body in that exact same Chi right?

    Or did you mean he smashed it with his Fist before it touched the rest of his body…?
    Because… Well… Exact same response as my earlier statement.
    He doesn’t just cover his fist in Chi.

    “Right with this sort of “energy” fist thing on his knuckles.”

    Right. His Chi.
    Which doesn’t just cover his knuckles.
    There’s plenty of scans of his entire body glowing with it.
    And even if he doesn’t cover his entire body with it, he’s definitely skilled & fast enough to just block all of Vergils blows with his fists. (doesn’t matter if the strikes are invisible, he can still see Vergil swining his sword and mimicking the movement)

    “I would wager the Hulk is quite a lot heavier than IF.”

    For fucks sake Kitten, this argument of yours is so illogical it’s getting ridiculous.

    The Hulk is only 450 kilograms (i know it sounds funny that i used the word “only”), meaning he would still be getting bitch slapped around the planet (or solar system, galaxy, universe) by most of the hits he takes.
    But he usually doesn’t budge.

    The same goes for Colossus (only weighs 250 kg),
    Juggernaut (only weighs 450 kg),
    The Thing (only weighs 220 kg),
    Luke Cage (only weighs 200 kg),
    Red Hulk (only weighs 544 kg),

    Literally ANY character with Enhanced Durability aren’t pushed back by Forces as much as they “should” be.
    Because incoming forces depends on more than just your body weight, it depends on your bodies ability to withstand punishment.
    Sure in real life the two are the exact same thing, but this isn’t real life, and it’s consistently shown over and over again how it’s different.

    “Had the train actually flew into him without him doing anything then it would be a durability feat but since he hit it with a ton of force enough to at the very least smash the cab into bits it was not the same as the train rolling into him.”

    There’s this little statement, i’m sure you’ve heard of it,
    Every action has a fucking equal and fucking opposite reaction.
    If you punch something with a certain Force, your body is impacted with the SAME Force too.

    IronFist smashing a moving train to bits with his fist means his fist was still impacted by the entire Force.
    Or atleast his Chi aura was impacted by it, which it tanked without any issue whatsoever.

    “He only had to output enough power to blow the train, its not like he stopped its momentum of it hitting into him.”

    So you’re telling me if i throw a brick at you,
    And you punch it mid air and smash it to bits,
    Your hand didn’t actually feel the impact of the brick?
    Really Kitten…? Really?

    ” the only way we can calc a feat is if we know how strong the train is, which is not likely possible,”

    Or we could estimate and compare it to an average real life train.
    Since you know, that’s what we do for like 99% of feats.

    The same way you guys are assuming the “stone building” that Dante cut through was actually stone and not just sponge.

    “Sharp weapons like swords are overlooked too often, slicing someone with a sword requires hundreds if not thousands of less force to do the same damage with a punch. ”

    Thus i posted the Vibranium claws feat.

    “The fact they fly as well makes me lean towards even lighter materials.”

    And the fact that they’re made by SHIELD, which uses the best resources and minds on the planet, makes me lean towards them being more durable.

  54. Limbo Lowk May 28, 2015 at 6:13 am -      #54

    “Teleport away immediately and spam ranged attacks?”

    Yeah which I always found annoying. He utilizes in addition to the teleport spam, One of his moves is basically teleporting out of sight and spamming judgment cut.
    ===
    “(doesn’t matter if the strikes are invisible, he can still see Vergil swining his sword and mimicking the movement)”

    That helps for the one but if you look at the moves it creates multiple slashes in different direction either localized on his target or in an area around him.

  55. Limbo Lowk May 28, 2015 at 6:21 am -      #55

    “the only way we can calc a feat is if we know how strong the train is, which is not likely possible,”

    They do have sites that detail a train construction materials. Marvel is basically earth with superhumans.

  56. Limbo Lowk May 28, 2015 at 6:42 am -      #56

    Sorry for the triple
    “So you’re telling me if i throw a brick at you,
    And you punch it mid air and smash it to bits,
    Your hand didn’t actually feel the impact of the brick?
    Really Kitten…? Really?”

    To be fair his hand is coated by the iron fist technique. I’ve seen him get shot before through the hand. Chi is basically armor to people like him.

  57. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 8:30 am -      #57

    Spinning a sword fast enough to effectively catch bullets (which we can safely assume is at least mach 1) and then holding those bullets in a spin requires more than mach 1 speed. It doesn’t say anything about RT but then Dante’s bullet catch does.

    Vergil’s speed obviously becomes faster and he goes kinda crazy with this dimension slash in DT. Vergil can holding his own in close quarters especially when he’s got his summoned swords attacking at the same time. Then add in his regenerative durability and they become pretty close in close quarters. Blocking mach 3 fire from multiple directions does show high RT and Speed, more than Vergil has shown (or at least from what I can remember). So Vergil is going to have to fight from range most of the time, which is not a problem with Dark Slayer Style. When ever IF closes in, he’s got to use DT or spiral swords or something.

    Dante is clearly resilient to hellfire (which is implied to be hotter than regular fire), as seen when he acquires Ifrit and sits on Belial’s tail. That gives Vergil resistance to the fire attack from IF. Perhaps Vergil’s resistance is not as high but it seems to be an inherent characteristic of the Sons of Sparda. Add in DT and regen and a powerful flame attack is resisted pretty well.

    It’s such a shame that Vergil is so lacking in feats and abilities compared to Dante. Dante’s most impressive stuff comes from DMC4 but that can’t be used to scale Vergil. Can’t wait for more Vergil in DMC4SE.

  58. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 8:50 am -      #58

    @Lowk
    “Yeah which I always found annoying. He utilizes in addition to the teleport spam, One of his moves is basically teleporting out of sight and spamming judgment cut.”

    Oh, so it’s something Vergil actually does?

    “That helps for the one but if you look at the moves it creates multiple slashes in different direction either localized on his target or in an area around him.”

    Where does one swing create multiple magic slashes?

    “To be fair his hand is coated by the iron fist technique. I’ve seen him get shot before through the hand. Chi is basically armor to people like him.”

    I know that.
    BUT he can cover his entire body in Chi, AND he can just block Vergils attacks with his hands if he needs to.

    @Pslmplosion
    “Spinning a sword fast enough to effectively catch bullets (which we can safely assume is at least mach 1) and then holding those bullets in a SPIN requires more than mach 1 speed.”

    No… It really doesn’t.

    Your sword only has to move a distance of like 0.5m to catch the bullet, whereas the bullet needs to travel 10m from the gun to you.
    Meaning you don’t need to be moving anywhere near as fast as the bullet itself.

    As for holding the bullets in a spin, and keeping them there, i’m pretty sure that flat out isn’t possible.
    And thus a irrelevant point to make. It’s just there for the “cool” factor.
    If it is possible, you’re gunna have to back it up, because it’s beyond my mathematical knowledge.

    “It doesn’t say anything about RT but then Dante’s bullet catch does.”

    Which is still vastly inferior to Ironfists lightning RT.

    “When ever IF closes in, he’s got to use DT or spiral swords or something.”

    The problem is, you’re assuming Vergils RT can keep up with IF to actually accomplish this…
    Which he can’t.

    “Dante is clearly resilient to hellfire (which is implied to be hotter than regular fire), as seen when he acquires Ifrit and sits on Belial’s tail. That gives Vergil resistance to the fire attack from IF.”

    It’s Chi, not actual fire.
    Vergil will still get instantly killed by it, considering its killed people FAR more durable than Vergil.

    “. Dante’s most impressive stuff comes from DMC4 but that can’t be used to scale Vergil.”

    Just out of curiosity, what ARE Dante’s most impressive feats?

  59. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 9:13 am -      #59

    @Ragnorke
    “Which is still vastly inferior to Ironfists lightning RT.”

    You mean from this?
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2867671-iron_fist_v3_01_page20.jpg

    Hyperbole. Figure of Speech. Yes I admit IF has awesome RT but catching a thrown blade can not prove he has LIGHTNING RT. I am not saying that Vergil has better or even equal RT but I am saying that it’s not significant enough of a difference that Vergil’s tools (Summoned Sword and DT) can’t make up for it.

    “It’s Chi, not actual fire.
    Vergil will still get instantly killed by it, considering its killed people FAR more durable than Vergil.”

    Okay then is it heat? If not, then Vergil’s heat resistance won’t apply.
    Did it insta kill people who can regenerate?
    Also as I mentioned before, DT drastically increases durability and resists instant kills.
    Something I forgot to ask is how fast does the ability hit? I know Vergil has RT below IF but it’s still a high RT and if the insta kill attack is slow, then Vergil can dodge with Trick.

  60. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 10:08 am -      #60

    @Ragnorke
    I forgot to talk about the spinning shield

    “Your sword only has to move a distance of like 0.5m to catch the bullet, whereas the bullet needs to travel 10m from the gun to you.”

    To clarify, the spin is so fast that it creates a solid wall against the bullets. To do that, Vergil’s sword has to be moving fast enough that it makes a full circle before a bullet can move past the thickness of his sword. A 9mm bullet is about 1cm. Vergil has to use the flat of his blade since he caught the bullet and it makes more sense (he might cut the bullet instead of blocking it) so lets add another 2cm.

    0.03/340=0.00008s
    A full spin every 80 microseconds
    that means Vergil has an angular velocity of
    12500*(2*3.14)rad/s or 12500 full spins per second.

    Converting this to linear velocity is harder. I would like someone to check and correct, or confirm my calcs because I’m not confident in them.
    We’ll use end of of handle as the rotation axis it looks like in the scene, Vergil’s grip is near and so the radius is about 20cm. This is going to be mid to high end speed.
    12500*(2*3.14)*0.2=15700m/s about mach 45…
    See why I feel like I did something wrong?

    Even Vergil was spinning his hand close to the axis (so lower end) (say 5cm to axis) then
    12500*(2*3.14)*0.05=3925 about mach 11.

    Damn I didn’t expect this when I started the calc. And I apologise if I made a mistake.

  61. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 10:37 am -      #61

    @Pslmplosion
    “To do that, Vergil’s sword has to be moving fast enough that it makes a full circle before a bullet can move past the thickness of his sword.”

    That’s not true. That’s simply an assumption on your part.
    It just has to be at the right place at the right time, meaning Vergils reaction times were good enough to time it right.

    The most you can say is that he made a full circle in the time between bullets.

    Also, you forget to take the spinning momentum into account.
    Example: people can swing bats faster than they can move their actual arms.

  62. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 10:44 am -      #62

    @Ragnorke
    “That’s not true. That’s simply an assumption on your part.
    It just has to be at the right place at the right time, meaning Vergils reaction times were good enough to time it right.”

    Possible but unlikely considering that he was spinning it the whole time and Dante was shooting many bullets. Timing one’s continous spin of the sword to block is harder (especially with many bullets) than just moving to block so I doubt Vergil is timing it.

    “Also, you forget to take the spinning momentum into account.
    Example: people can swing bats faster than they can move their actual arms.”

    I’m not interpreting it. I’m just saying how fast the hand moved.

  63. Ragnorke May 28, 2015 at 11:02 am -      #63

    “Possible but unlikely considering that he was spinning it the whole time and Dante was shooting many bullets.”

    Well yea i know he was spinning it the whole time.
    I’m just saying he was spinning it slower than you think he was.

    “Timing one’s continous spin of the sword to block is harder (especially with many bullets) than just moving to block so I doubt Vergil is timing it.”

    Well Vergil & Dantes RT is already high enough to see bullets, so i don’t see why timing a spin well would be so hard.
    It would be no different than a Batsmen timing his swing to hit a baseball.

    What i’m claiming is harder in RT (although we know Vergil & Dantes RT is already high enough to pull it off) and requires much less speed.
    What you’re saying is easier on their RT (but we already know their RT is capable of more) but requires a much higher speed.

    My interpretation of it is also more in line with the other 2 feats of Vergil that i’v seen,
    Whereas yours seems to be more of an Outlier in comparison.

    “I’m not interpreting it. I’m just saying how fast the hand moved.”

    Fair enough,
    But i’m not all too sure how that would relate into striking speed or dodging speed.
    People don’t swing by flicking their wrists after all.

  64. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 11:03 am -      #64

    Oh and just for reference 2:39 to 2:46 is the spinning block feat.

  65. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 11:20 am -      #65

    @Ragnorke
    “Well Vergil & Dantes RT is already high enough to see bullets, so i don’t see why timing a spin well would be so hard.”

    Oh I’m sure Vergil can do it. But it’s harder because he would be constantly spinning and then slowing down or speeding up in order to intercept a bullet. Then he would have to spin around to intercept the next bullet, which requires him doing some timing and changing his speed.
    Or he can just not spin in 1 direction and stagger his speed and simply flick his wrist to deflect the bullets in a more efficient manner. That would be using RT.

    Basicly what I’m saying is that if they’re spinning to block, they’re probably doing a gyro shield. yes both is possible but the gyro shield is a much simpler explanation.

    It’s also implied by the video. Remember the scene is shown in slow motion and you can see the bullets. But there is still the blur of the blade and the bullets would hit where there is just a blur. Pause it and you can see that the bullets are traveling not on the blade but on the blur.
    Definitely not definitive but it is really implied and much more likely that Vergil is using a gyro shield.

  66. Kitten Lord May 28, 2015 at 12:52 pm -      #66

    @Rag

    “Right. His Chi.
    Which doesn’t just cover his knuckles.”

    In the scan he clearly has a large build up of his “chi” or w/e you want to call it on his fist, I have not seen this build up all over his body in most of the other scans…..

    “unless specified.
    It’s generally accepted that they start at close range.”

    Not so sure about this, is it in the rules? And define “close range”, because if your using that to say hes within hitting distance of IF then your giving IF an undue advantage.

    “Because incoming forces depends on more than just your body weight, it depends on your bodies ability to withstand punishment.”

    Yeah this makes absolutely no sense, if your body can take punishment that is fine but if something hits you with a lot of force and your not pushing back with as much or more, your going to move….

    And to add to that, your anchor needs to be able to withstand the force your being hit with as well. Otherwise again, your going to lose the ground your standing on, and fall over…

    “IronFist smashing a moving train to bits with his fist means his fist was still impacted by the entire Force.”

    The train “gave”, and by gave I mean it exploded. Punching a train is hardly some amazingly impressive feat…

    “And the fact that they’re made by SHIELD, which uses the best resources and minds on the planet, makes me lean towards them being more durable.”

    Which suggests you know of a good durability feat for the aircraft carrier? Otherwise your relying on me just believing SHIELD made a huge vehicle that can fly and is also super durable.

    “And anyways, since when is that in Vergils character?
    Has Vergil EVER done that in a fight?
    Teleport away immediately and spam ranged attacks?”

    Lowk covered this and considering Vergil can move his sword fast enough to catch bullets with ease and line them up, his sword will be creating streams of blade beams like a blur all coming at IF.

    The teleport gives Vergil the ability to do this from every direction he wants to, so just “watching” vergil is useless if he just teleports above or behind.

    “Thus i posted the Vibranium claws feat.”

    What scan showed the claws slashing or clawing into him? I see more use from blows that seem to have their own blue energy about them and some sort of energy knife, and they’re definitely hurting iron fist…

    Your argument consists of IF somehow following vergil teleporitng all over the place, fireing off a constant barrage of blade beams from unknown directions and then somehow protecting himself with his hands, even though the beams are wide and he cannot necesserily even see them, the blade beams are wider than vergils sword obviously.

    IF does not even know what Vergil is doing when hes swinging his sword about, for all IF knows vergil is showing off, only for a fraction of a second later IF falls in half…….

    Heres some info;

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SJ_X2

    Train acceleration; 0.25 m/s^2

    Weight 73 tons

    Top speed 120 mph

  67. Friendlysociopath May 28, 2015 at 1:13 pm -      #67

    Otherwise your relying on me just believing SHIELD made a huge vehicle that can fly and is also super durable.

    Really?

  68. Karen Starr May 28, 2015 at 1:41 pm -      #68

    Reading the train scan, it looks like Danny also fired himself off at the train, using the power from the tracks to sort of fire himself at it. Like he didn’t stand there and wait for the train to come to him he launched himself at it at some unknown highspeed.

  69. Friendlysociopath May 28, 2015 at 2:27 pm -      #69

    Really?

    To continue this train of thought, you realize it was functioning perfectly well as an actual aircraft carrier right? Meaning it’s a couple hundred thousand tons or so?

    Also, from a character point of view, I see Vergil getting progressively more pissed off and sloppy the calmer Iron Fist is, especially if he keeps up those meditative lines and such.

  70. Kitten Lord May 28, 2015 at 2:53 pm -      #70

    @Friendly

    ” Meaning it’s a couple hundred thousand tons or so?”

    Why does that mean that? I would have to be able to see the air arm of the carrier to determine what class or size it is.

    Just because the Nimitz is 100k tons does not automatically make this carrier the same. What does the carrier carry as aircraft and how many?

    This is all irrelevant, I want proof of its durability being impressive. Like I said, carriers are just steel as a norm.

  71. Friendlysociopath May 28, 2015 at 3:17 pm -      #71

    Why does that mean that?

    Because the smallest aircraft carrier in the world is 11,000+ tons; this is far from the size of the smallest one.

    Just because the Nimitz is 100k tons does not automatically make this carrier the same.

    You’re right, the thing being extremely similar in length and width is what makes it around the weight of the Nimitz.
    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelmovies/images/c/cc/HelicarrierConceptRender1-AvengersBTS.png/revision/latest?cb=20131116234148
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier#/media/File:USS_Nimitz_in_Victoria_Canada_036.jpg
    It has F-35s on it

    This is all irrelevant, I want proof of its durability being impressive. Like I said, carriers are just steel as a norm.

    He punched hard enough to make a crater in the center and sent cracks and explosions hundreds of feet in every direction; even for base steel that’s a far better strength feat than anything Vergil has.

  72. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 3:19 pm -      #72


    That honestly doesn’t compare to blocking/dodging bullets from ASSAULT RIFLES, from over a DOZEN different sources.”
    ===
    Yes it does when it’s been proven that Dante’s guns can spit out 100 rounds per sec

  73. Friendlysociopath May 28, 2015 at 4:06 pm -      #73

    Yes it does when it’s been proven that Dante’s guns can spit out 100 rounds per sec

    I’ve heard of that but never seen it, is it an ability or something?

  74. Nsl98 May 28, 2015 at 4:08 pm -      #74

    Yes it does when it’s been proven that Dante’s guns can spit out 100 rounds per sec

    Yet Dante only fired 8-9 bullets at Vergil in that one cutscene.

    Dodging multiple assault rifles > a couple of bullets.

  75. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 5:02 pm -      #75

    “Yet Dante only fired 8-9 bullets at Vergil in that one cutscene.”
    ===
    The scene where low k was referring to was during gameplay

  76. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 5:14 pm -      #76

    “I’ve heard of that but never seen it, is it an ability or something?”
    ==
    Nah it’s just some Original A calc’d from a scene in the anime I forgot what thread he did it in though. I think it was in the dante vs Kratos one. I’m not sure

  77. Kitten Lord May 28, 2015 at 5:48 pm -      #77

    @Friendly

    “You’re right, the thing being extremely similar in length and width is what makes it around the weight of the Nimitz.”

    Your images do not give me any sense of scale.

    “It has F-35s on it”

    How many?

    “He punched hard enough to make a crater in the center and sent cracks and explosions hundreds of feet in every direction; even for base steel that’s a far better strength feat than anything Vergil has.”

    Its not strength thats important, we need to find pressure resistance. We need to know how much force is needed to make a crater in steel, although the top of a carrier is often covered in non-skid so the planes do not slide.

    Course it looks more like he hit a major part of the vessel hence why its going down, and some of those explosions could be the after effects of what he hit going up in smoke.

  78. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 5:58 pm -      #78

    ” youtu.be/VHDwB2YHhD8 (1:26)
    Vergil likes to get the job done without playing around, like his tendancy to stike foes down without speaking a word. His seperate speed feat shows this ruthlessness. Assuming the Hell Abyss are faster than normal humans so for this I’ll have their speed at below peak human, so 15m/s, from Vergil’s perspective they were moving at 0.05m/s. 1/300th their speed to him meaning his movements were 300x what they appeared to be. This makes Vergils average human looking 10m/s attacks actually moving at 3,000m/s or Mach 9.”
    – guy from a respect thread

  79. Aelfinn May 28, 2015 at 6:21 pm -      #79

    “See why I feel like I did something wrong?”

    I think I see what you did wrong. Most of your math was correct or close to it, as far as I saw, but the initial assumption that “Vergil has to make a full spin by the time the bullet crosses 3 centimeters” was incorrect. It’s more accurate to say “Vergil has to make a full spin in the time between bullets reach him”, which would increase the available time by a fair margin.

  80. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 6:47 pm -      #80

    “This makes Vergils average human looking 10m/s attacks actually moving at 3,000m/s or Mach 9.”

    Nice! I guess Vergil does have feats if you look hard enough.

    “People don’t swing by flicking their wrists after all.”

    I gave this some thought and I have to say that wrist movement is an important part of swinging. A very important part which is why forearm strength is so important in sword fighting. Vergil’s regular swing speed may not be mach 11 but it’s up there in the hypersonic range.

    My speed calc in addition to the speed +RT calc Chuck inglish referenced gives Vergil a consistent hypersonic combat speed.

    Where we are now:
    I don’t think IF is hypersonic because the assault rifle scene puts him at supersonic only. Assault rifles shots are roughly around mach 3. So far I’m seeing. So I think right now Vergil beats Iron Fist in combat speed.
    No one is really sure if Vergil or Iron Fist is more durable
    Iron fist with his one shot skill looks like he has greater potential to kill right now.

  81. Nsl98 May 28, 2015 at 6:54 pm -      #81

    @Chuck
    Why does he assume Hell Abyss are faster than humans? What does he base this claim on?

    And why is below peak human 15 m/s?

    I don’t think we should trust some random guy on the internet’s assumption as fact.

  82. Limbo Lowk May 28, 2015 at 6:57 pm -      #82

    “No one is really sure if Vergil or Iron Fist is more durable”

    I’d say IF is. Chi steels him against damage.
    Vergil like his brother is durable but they tend to rely on the instant healing immortal thing. Stabbed through the heart, fist sliding through a sword, walking while a blade is stab through you in a manner that it should be fucking up your spine.
    However, one of IF all out punches would probably destroy him. On the negative I don’t think it is something he can repeatedly pull out.

  83. Envoy May 28, 2015 at 7:00 pm -      #83

    “Nah it’s just some Original A calc’d from a scene in the anime I forgot what thread he did it in though. I think it was in the dante vs Kratos one. I’m not sure”
    +
    The Bridge Scene from the anime, there’s also Rainstorm from DMC3&4, the move’s description says Dante fires hundreds of bullets.

  84. Nsl98 May 28, 2015 at 7:05 pm -      #84

    Iron Fist dodges lightning:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111123678/4219272-5777389213-IMF_9.jpg

    Iron Fist coming up with a way to deal with a teleporter, though he gets interrupted:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111118828/3130670-ironfist7.jpg

  85. Limbo Lowk May 28, 2015 at 7:06 pm -      #85

    “And why is below peak human 15 m/s?”

    Yeah pretty sure 30 mph is around peak human. I read we can reach 40 but there are some limitations.

  86. Friendlysociopath May 28, 2015 at 7:32 pm -      #86

    Can anyone tell me how best to quantify the feats in post #9 btw? Just a point in the right direction would do

  87. Limbo Lowk May 28, 2015 at 7:55 pm -      #87

    “Can anyone tell me how best to quantify the feats in post #9 btw?”

    Yamato, Vergil’s sword slices dimesions. Those slashes are basically cuts through space.

  88. Friendlysociopath May 28, 2015 at 8:03 pm -      #88

    I meant for speed, he sliced 5 humans into pieces without even appearing to move.

  89. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 8:58 pm -      #89

    “Yeah pretty sure 30 mph is around peak human. I read we can reach 40 but there are some limitations.”
    ==
    15 meters per second is 30 mph
    ==
    “Yamato, Vergil’s sword slices dimesions. Those slashes are basically cuts through space.”
    ===
    That and the sword basically ignores durability based the on the fact when dante stingered Nero’s arm he couldn’t get through the tough hide but when Sanctus stabbed Nero with Yamato he he pierced it without no problem

  90. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 9:08 pm -      #90

    “And why is below peak human 15 m/s?”
    ==
    He went with the lowest estimate in game though they are shown to be faster than peak humans

  91. Limbo Lowk May 28, 2015 at 9:09 pm -      #91

    “15 meters per second is 30 mph”

    I know. 40 mph is theoretical so currently 27(i think) so far is the fast recorded. Though I guess the guy might have been going off of fictional humans.
    ===
    And I forgot about that Nero thing. That was at a time where Dante has shown his strongest feat against the savior. What did that bring Dante’s strength to.

  92. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 9:23 pm -      #92

    “what did that bring Dante’s strength to.”
    ==
    I kinda forgot.. All I know is he block the punch and held the savior’s deadwieght and threw him off off

  93. Alpha or Omega May 28, 2015 at 9:26 pm -      #93

    @Chuck
    May I see a source with calculation for the Abyss moving at 15 m/s?
    Because they don’t look like they’re moving at those speeds at all.
    /
    This calculation also assumes that the whole scene was in slow motion in Vergil’s perspective even though it’s going at normal speeds.

  94. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 9:38 pm -      #94

    “”This calculation also assumes that the whole scene was in slow motion in Vergil’s perspective even though it’s going at normal speeds.”
    ===
    No this calc only applies the the first part of the scene when they all lounge and swing at vergil
    ===
    “May I see a source with calculation for the Abyss moving at 15 m/s?
    Because they don’t look like they’re moving at those speeds at all.”
    ===
    Post 78

  95. Alpha or Omega May 28, 2015 at 10:00 pm -      #95

    “No this calc only applies the the first part of the scene when they all lounge and swing at vergil”
    /
    Then he’s ignoring other parts of the scene.
    We also see that the slow motion applies to Vergil since we see his sword being pulled out slowly from his sheath while the other creatures are moving slowly.
    /
    “Post 78″
    “Assuming the Hell Abyss are faster than normal humans so for this I’ll have their speed at below peak human, so 15m/s”
    /
    So he assumes that they move faster than normal humans because why?
    They don’t even look like they move that fast.
    /
    Even if he’s right that they are faster than normal humans why does he put it at below peak human?
    Why doesn’t he put it at low athletic human level instead? That’s still faster than normal humans.
    /
    Also, the Abyss’ speed has nothing to do with falling.
    Earth’s Gravity impacts how fast you’re currently falling.
    So even if this guy was right about their speed at 15 m/s, that doesn’t really impact how fast they were falling.
    Unless you have proof that their speed defies gravity of all things.

  96. Chuck inglish May 28, 2015 at 10:56 pm -      #96

    “Then he’s ignoring other parts of the scene.
    We also see that the slow motion applies to Vergil since we see his sword being pulled out slowly from his sheath while the other creatures are moving slowly.”
    ===
    The slow motion does not apply to vergil did you not see he him slic the demon above him at regular speeds?? Vergil was most likely being flashy and he’s most likely reffering to the abyss swing at him with the scythe at the beginning
    ===
    “So he assumes that they move faster than normal humans because why?”
    ===
    I’ll post their movements during gameplay
    =====
    I have to go in to work so I’ll be back tomorrow

  97. PsImplosion May 28, 2015 at 11:18 pm -      #97

    @Limbo Lowk
    “However, one of IF all out punches would probably destroy him.”

    Not saying if that statement is correct or not but one thing to keep in mind is that Vergil’s regeneration is fast enough to regenerate before the damage is fully applied. If say, an attack would turn Vergil into demonic spaghetti without regen, then with regen, before Vergils little body parts can fall apart they will regenerate. It’s just so damn fast.

    6:17 to 6:40
    youtu.be/wmXhOQgWzEg?t=6m17s
    Vergil gets cut in half yet you don’t see his body disconnect. Remember that this isn’t Yamato which tends to have a delayed cut but rather rebellion, a pretty thick sword. This just goes to show how durable even a weakened not DT Vergil is.

    @Chuck
    “… when dante stingered Nero’s arm he couldn’t get through the tough hide but when Sanctus stabbed Nero with Yamato he he pierced it without no problem”

    Justification for the description that says it can cut through anything. Thanks Chuck! Want to add that Dante is super strong in DMC4 (again perhaps someone else can reference actual savior calcs) and sanctus is weak sauce. This is evidence in favour of Vergil being able to cut through chi armour.

  98. Alpha or Omega May 28, 2015 at 11:27 pm -      #98

    “The slow motion does not apply to vergil did you not see he him slic the demon above him at regular speeds??”
    /
    I did, and that doesn’t change the fact that his sword was still being unsheathed slowly.
    Did you also see other parts of the scene when he flips the demon and cuts him or when he cuts two Abyss at once, we see him move in slow motion?
    /
    “Vergil was most likely being flashy”
    /
    Showing off doesn’t mean you can’t be unaffected by slow motion effects.
    We see multiple scenes of him being in slow motion so being flashy is unlikely anyway.
    /
    “and he’s most likely reffering to the abyss swing at him with the scythe at the beginning”
    /
    That’s still ignoring other parts of the scene where it’s in slow motion and Vergil is going as slow in those scenes.
    Why didn’t he calculate the other parts?
    /
    “I’ll post their movements during gameplay”
    /
    How about this. I’ll just do it.
    youtu.be/j1irg97AyhE?t=90
    We see 15 m/s nowhere.
    Even if you somehow twist this to be 15 m/s, gravity is what affects their fall as I said before, not their speed.

  99. Alpha or Omega May 28, 2015 at 11:45 pm -      #99

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention.
    What would be Vergil’s current incarnation?
    DMC3 where he gets Yamato and Sparda’s sword?
    Or DMC1 where he’s Nelo Angelo?

  100. Limbo Lowk May 29, 2015 at 12:21 am -      #100

    “What would be Vergil’s current incarnation?”

    Isn’t Nelo essentially a meat puppet controlled by Mundus in DMC1?
    Besides if anyone wanted to use Nelo wouldn’t they have just put it.

1 2 Next »

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.


Web Design MymensinghPremium WordPress ThemesWeb Development

NASA’s Software Catalog

Yes, now you can build a rocket too - Actually, there is an amazing amount of free software and complete documentation on how to make and perform some amazing feats of science. I'm interested to know what Facts would do with it... Click here to get started!

Mining the Moon

It's going to happen soon - there are a ton to rare Earth Metals on that big old rock in the sky! Check out this infographic!

Michio Kaku: The Universe In a Nutshell

Fantastic video that easily explains physics of our universe: Michio Kaku - Universe in a Nutshell

Raiders of the Lost Ark – Conception Transcribed

Raiders of the Lost Ark - This is an amazing read on the thought process between George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and Lawrence Kasdan as they talk through the concepts of this amazing film. It's practically peering into the thought process of some of the most influential film makers of our day. And amazingly, shows how creative Lucas was.

Help Out Nepal

Finally a good reason to support Destiny.

Modern Gaming

Sad but true.

Curiosity Rover Spotted by Mars Orbiter on Mount Sharp

Humanity is the invading alien now...

Nope

No way I go here alone

17 Rare Star Wars Pictures

To see them, click here

Comic Con 2013 Cosplay Gallery

Just a ton of pictures of cosplayers from the 2013 Comic Con event

Ancient Aliens Map

If you ever watched the show "Ancient Aliens" and wanted a quick reference to where all the locations they mention are at, this is the site for you!

Fictional Universes Database

Soon to be shut down by Google, but here is a great starting point for Fictional Universes

99 Star Wars Pics

Some are cool, some are a bit absurd, but they are all based on Star Wars

Alternate Movie Posters

Something a bit distinct - Check them out

Epic Swiss Army Knife

Not Really...

Future Me

Write yourself an email letter to the future - Future Me

Neil Degrasse Tyson

Star Talk Radio - As always, keep looking up!