Bayonetta Vs Cloud Strife

Bayonetta Vs Cloud Strife

Suggested by Nsl98

Bayonetta (Bayonetta) will go up against Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy)

They start fighting in Chinatown, NYC.

Cloud is composite and have all materias and summons with him.

Who wins?

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160 Comments on "Bayonetta Vs Cloud Strife"

  1. Nsl98 July 4, 2015 at 12:08 am -      #1

    FYI, by composite I meant he has access to everything, cuz when I suggested this months ago I thought Cloud’s summons weren’t allowed.

    Then that whole sentient vs non sentient discussion happened…so yeah.

  2. Karen Starr July 4, 2015 at 12:13 am -      #2

    I think I’ll try to help support Bayonetta as much as I can.

  3. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 12:18 am -      #3

    Right, so before I recall very loudly claiming Composite Cloud was not a thing.

    I retract that statement, Composite Cloud is comprised of:
    Final Fantasy VII Anthology Cloud Strife
    Final Fantasy Tactics Cloud Strife
    Kingdom Hearts Cloud Strife
    Dissidia Cloud Strife

    I’ll be honest, 3 of those games are so different from one another that I have no idea how Cloud’s various skills would work together.

  4. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 12:27 am -      #4

    First time seeing a composite for someone who isn’t Link…
    Witch time won’t work, but if Bayonetta can stay out of range, she should be fine.
    Thing is though, Cloud blocks bullets, so it’s going to be a long match.

  5. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 12:34 am -      #5

    Witch time won’t work, but if Bayonetta can stay out of range, she should be fine.

    If NS really meant Composite Cloud; Bayonetta isn’t staying out of his range. Composite Cloud might well be just as hax as Composite Link; if not more so.

    To that end, NS, did you mean Composite as in all-incarnations or composite just to mean Cloud could have his summons but still be in his regular incarnation?
    Personally, I’d enjoy the chance to elaborate on what a Composite Cloud is capable of but it’s your call.

  6. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 12:38 am -      #6

    And to be honest, I don’t think Kingdom Hearts Cloud was impressive and doesn’t really add much.
    I think what Cloud did in Advent Children without materia was more impressive than the Kingdom Heart’s version.
    /
    Only seen a gameplay video of Tactics where he faces Sephiroth and a scene where he scares some dudes in that game.
    Any impressive things he did?
    /
    Edit:
    “If NS really meant Composite Cloud; Bayonetta isn’t staying out of his range. Composite Cloud might well be just as hax as Composite Link; if not more so.”
    /
    How so?

  7. Limbo Lowk July 4, 2015 at 12:41 am -      #7

    So does would cloud’s defense work against Bayonetta’s time slow? I mean they have stop in FF last I checked but that was more personal time. What if time itself was coming to slow instead of directly affecting Cloud?

  8. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 1:03 am -      #8

    And to be honest, I don’t think Kingdom Hearts Cloud was impressive and doesn’t really add much.

    Well, flight is not a small thing. But overall yeah, Cloud was lackluster in KH. Although, doesn’t he fight Hercules in KH? That would be… interesting.

    Any impressive things he did?

    Did? No, it’s a minor cameo and he’s pretty much like every main character- he has his own class with special abilities that others can’t use. That’s the beginning and end of it. What is important is that he has access to Tactics classes and equipment, which is every bit as OP as Link’s.

    How so?

    I’ll wait till NS responds before going too far, but picture Advent Children Cloud. Now picture him invisible and being able to teleport farther than guns can fire and deflect bullets with his bare hands. And that’s just the tip of the hax Tactics lets you pull off.

    What if time itself was coming to slow instead of directly affecting Cloud?

    I remember this sort of thing coming up in a Percy Jackson match, if they’re shown resistance to personal time stops- I would think that should transfer over to attacks that just focus on time itself. There comes a time when you’re just splitting hairs (not ‘you’ per say but just the idea itself)

  9. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 1:19 am -      #9

    @FriendlySociopath
    “Well, flight is not a small thing. But overall yeah, Cloud was lackluster in KH. Although, doesn’t he fight Hercules in KH? That would be… interesting.”
    /
    Looking through youtube gave me a cutscene and gameplay which was in Re-Coded. And, it said Data Sora.
    So, I’m pretty sure that was VR or some digital world, not the real version of them.
    /
    “I’ll wait till NS responds before going too far, but picture Advent Children Cloud. Now picture him invisible and being able to teleport farther than guns can fire and deflect bullets with his bare hands. And that’s just the tip of the hax Tactics lets you pull off.”
    /
    Well, then fak me. That’s pretty h4x.

  10. Numinous One July 4, 2015 at 3:45 am -      #10

    Isn’t Bayonetta that one that is essentially, Dante with boobs and better at everything?

    “I remember this sort of thing coming up in a Percy Jackson match, if they’re shown resistance to personal time stops- I would think that should transfer over to attacks that just focus on time itself”

    Could you elaborate there? That sounds a bit iffy.
    It comes off as if you’re saying that since one form of time manipulation doesn’t work, another won’t based on that.
    What if he gets put in a match with Barragan from Bleach?
    Would personal resistance prevent him from being aged until nothing remains? Fundamentally that’s not very different from slowing down time, they’re both just changing the… flow rate?

  11. Kitten Lord July 4, 2015 at 5:03 am -      #11

    So Bay has time slows, time slow stacking, can headbutt skyscrapers and summons massive monsters that generally eat other massive monsters.

    Why is Cloud immune to witch time again? Just because hes resistance to the “stop” status effect with Ribbon? NS said all materia, but not all equipment.

  12. Rookie July 4, 2015 at 5:32 am -      #12

  13. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 8:31 am -      #13

    Does clouds resistance/immunity to stop actually make him resistant or immune to time effects or does it make him specifically immune to that spell?

    Like, is it a “This particular spell does nothing” or “I am immune to the effect caused by this spell” thing. Which is probably the most important thing to decide first.

    For instance, A character with really high magic resistance might be immune to stop because its a magic trying to effect them, but could still be effected by some technological time stop.

    Then you have to determine whether the spell stops time, stops the target from moving through time, for simply simulates a time stop effect, through some kind of paralysis.
    – – –
    But i tried to say this in the above mention Percy match and nobody would listen to me “sad face* Then again, i am not really the clearest… explainer. And i am ususally wrong about a lot of things so moot point is moot.

  14. Nsl98 July 4, 2015 at 9:09 am -      #14

    Copy Pasted from Post 1:
    FYI, by composite I meant he has access to everything, cuz when I suggested this months ago I thought Cloud’s summons weren’t allowed.

  15. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 9:11 am -      #15

    Right…. So…. access to everything includes things from his tactics/Kingdom hearts appearances? OR just standard FF7 universe stuff but also with summons.

  16. Limbo Lowk July 4, 2015 at 9:41 am -      #16

    I don’t think immunity to temporary personal time stop equals immunity to the flow of time itself being altered.
    I mean he is still within the confines of time right? If it all slows shouldn’t he?

  17. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 9:42 am -      #17

    “I mean he is still within the confines of time right? If it all slows shouldn’t he?”

    Yes, he should. I’m here to back you up. You got this. WOOP WOOP WOOP.

    www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cheering_minions.gif

  18. Nsl98 July 4, 2015 at 10:30 am -      #18

    OR just standard FF7 universe stuff but also with summons.

    Cloud’s equipment/gear/abilities/Materia/summons that can be obtained throughout the entirety of the FF7 Compilation.

    So a regular Cloud match.

  19. Karen Starr July 4, 2015 at 10:43 am -      #19

    youtu.be/aKexT8s5Hx0?t=1065 playing catch with a satellite

    ——

    youtu.be/aKexT8s5Hx0?t=1065 dodging same satellite’s beam weaponry(maybe laser) before the satellite is used to crush you.

    —-

    youtu.be/8ThoGGz5HK0?t=263 Bayonetta bracing herself and headbutting a skyscraper

    —–

    youtu.be/hYUApi56Epg?t=864 kicks an oncoming jet

  20. Karen Starr July 4, 2015 at 11:00 am -      #20

    sorry the second link is wrong youtu.be/aKexT8s5Hx0?t=737 is her dodging the satellite’s energy beam/laser.

  21. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 11:36 am -      #21

    So a regular Cloud match.

    Rats, oh well.

    I don’t think immunity to temporary personal time stop equals immunity to the flow of time itself being altered.

    Considering we have no idea how personal time stops work vs time itself being stopped- it could work in exactly the same fashion and we’d never know unless they were that specific.

  22. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 12:11 pm -      #22

    Is Cloud allowed to quadra magic ‘Knights of the Round’?

  23. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 12:16 pm -      #23

    I need to find an opponent for Composite Cloud… he deserves his composite form every bit as much as Link does…

    Is cloud allowed to quadra magic Knights of the round?

    That would be how the materia work. NS very specifically mentioned all materia, especially summons.

    Also, mandatory mention of “preemptive strike” materia that lets Cloud always go first.

  24. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 12:18 pm -      #24

    I assume for the purposes of real time combat that quadra magic allows for a spell to be cast 4 times simultaneously, Rather than 4 times consecutively as it is in turn based combat.

    If not, quadra magic does literally nothing.
    – – –
    “I need to find an opponent for Composite Cloud… he deserves his composite form every bit as much as Link does…”

    Not really…. Link at least has the same spirit going for him, cloud isn’t the same character between universes. I suppose a composite Cloud is more like a composite Dracula.
    – – –
    “That would be how the materia work. NS very specifically mentioned all materia, especially summons.”

    Yeah, but quadra magic Knights of the round, just flat does not work in game, is there a canon reason for that?
    – – –
    “Also, mandatory mention of “preemptive strike” materia that lets Cloud always go first.”

    Isn’t that a game mechanic? Or does it legit boost his speed?

  25. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 12:32 pm -      #25

    Yeah, but quadra magic Knights of the round, just flat does not work in game, is there a canon reason for that?

    Oh that’s what you meant, developers said it was too OP; in other words, game mechanic. Considering just one KotR can kill most bosses, I can see why allowing that x4 would be considered silly.
    There actually is a way around it, but it involves 2 Master Summon materia, which is stretching the rules a bit.

    cloud isn’t the same character between universes

    Maybe not Kingdom Hearts, but the rest are within the same FF multiverse.

  26. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 12:34 pm -      #26

    “but the rest are within the same FF multiverse”

    Really? Even the one in tactics? How do they explain that?

  27. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 12:36 pm -      #27

    “Not really…. Link at least has the same spirit going for him, cloud isn’t the same character between universes.”
    /
    Not for all Links.
    Clearly, Twilight Princess Link is different than Ocarina of Time Link in spirit since TP Link exist at the same time OoT Link does.

  28. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 12:37 pm -      #28

    “Clearly, Twilight Princess Link is different than Ocarina of Time Link in spirit since TP Link exist at the same time OoT Link does.”

    And Avater Ang could talk to Avatar Roku, they were still the same person. That means nothing.

  29. Mea quidem sententia July 4, 2015 at 12:48 pm -      #29

    God, seeing those videos makes me not like Bayonetta even more. Also, composite forms are stupid. They’re not even canon unless you go by the canonical form of composites.

  30. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 12:52 pm -      #30

    Really? Even the one in tactics? How do they explain that?

    Multiverse? I’m gonna make a topia topic about this so I can just link it every time I get asked this lol.
    Here, base reason, Gilgamesh in FF is canonically the same exact person no matter what game he appears in. That, by itself, makes it a multiverse. There’s additional stuff like Ivalice and FFX-FFVII but Gilgamesh is enough for a short explanation.

    Oh, if you meant Cloud specifically appearing in Tactics, a machine grabs him across space and time; Luso and Balthier show up in the same sort of way, FFT Ivalice is apparently just a giant sponge for multidimensional travel.

    Isn’t that a game mechanic?

    I’ve heard of far, far more insane stuff from Fate/stay characters, this is tame by comparison.

  31. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 12:52 pm -      #31

    “God, seeing those videos makes me not like Bayonetta even more. Also, composite forms are stupid. They’re not even canon unless you go by the canonical form of composites.”

    You make baby Nayru cry.

  32. Kitten Lord July 4, 2015 at 12:54 pm -      #32

    I agree with Mea, composite forms defeat the purpose of the character. Its like making up your own character essentially…

    @Lady

    “Isn’t that a game mechanic?”

    Yeah.

  33. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 12:56 pm -      #33

    “Oh, if you meant Cloud specifically appearing in Tactics”

    Yes, i did.
    – – –
    “a machine grabs him across space and time”

    Is it said when it grabs him? Does he retain memory from his time there? If he does, then he should still have those abilities right? They would be included in his current incarnation since it is the same dude. He wouldn’t have kingdom hearts feats, but whatever.

  34. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 12:57 pm -      #34

    “I agree with Mea, composite forms defeat the purpose of the character. Its like making up your own character essentially…”

    You make baby Farore cry

  35. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 1:04 pm -      #35

    Does he retain memory from his time there?

    Tactics? No, he retains his memories and Limit Breaks from FF7; he’s a bit vague about what he remembers though. He spends most of the game in sort of a “memory-fuck” about Aerith and Sephiroth.

    Hmm, I’m gonna make a list of what composite Cloud can do and see if I can find an opponent for him, nothing better to do today beyond keep the 2nd cousin from charging fire engines- Happy 4th of July.

  36. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 1:10 pm -      #36

    No, i mean, does he retain his memories of tactics when he returns to FF7 land, place… midgard thingy. Or is that never addressed.

  37. Nsl98 July 4, 2015 at 1:19 pm -      #37

    @Mea & KL
    Guys, it’s not composite. I’ve literally said this twice.

    Happy 4th of July.

    🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

  38. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 1:19 pm -      #38

    “And Avater Ang could talk to Avatar Roku, they were still the same person. That means nothing.”
    /
    Proof of this and how this applies to Link?

  39. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 1:27 pm -      #39

    So don’t get me wrong, but who won in Dante vs Bayonetta? Because Cloud already beat Dante on-site and while I’m not going to say, “He beat X so he can beat Y” I’ve always heard Bayonetta is just female Dante.

  40. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 1:29 pm -      #40

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=raqOGQA5tp8&t=15m14s

    Aang talking to roku
    – – –
    avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar

    Explanation of the avatar cycle
    – – –
    And it applies to link only as an example. You stated that TP Link had to have a different spirit because he was talking to Ocarina of time Link.
    That is not necessarily true, Avatar is an example of where on spirit can communicate with its past lives. And there is nothing to say that is not what is happening here.

  41. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 1:53 pm -      #41

    Since I’ll be leaving soon, here’s a video of what Cloud fighting looks like in real-time; since I’ve heard from multiple people that, “They don’t look like they’re fighting that fast.”

  42. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 2:04 pm -      #42

    @FriendlySociopath
    Bayonetta won.
    /
    @LadyRamkin
    “Explanation of the avatar cycle”
    /
    That’s different than Link’s since it has a connection to a spirit realm.
    /
    “And it applies to link only as an example. You stated that TP Link had to have a different spirit because he was talking to Ocarina of time Link.”
    /
    That’s because he was reincarnated as Wind Waker Link. It left from him the moment he went back into the past.
    TP Link is not the same spirit as OoT Link. He doesn’t have some connection to a spirit realm.
    Then, there’s this which pretty much says TP Link is not the same as OoT Link
    www.glitterberri.com/hyrule-historia/page-118/
    “Link, the Hero of Time’s Descendent
    The first time Link sets foot in the Twilight, the crest of the Triforce of Courage on the back of his hand shines forth and he takes on a beastly form. When he returns to human form, he is garbed in the clothes said to have been worn by the hero. The ghost of his ancestor, the Hero of Time, teaches Link his secrets. Ever since his return to the Child Era, the Hero of Time had felt regret that he would not be remembered as a hero. Therefore, he addresses Link as his son and passes down the proof of courage, in addition to his secrets.”
    /
    Then, there’s the fact that Hyrule Historia says some Links are flat out different.
    www.glitterberri.com/hyrule-historia/page-68/
    “Naming the Hero Link
    The heroes that appear in this chronology are all known as Link. It may have been their true name, but perhaps they were called something different. Some are the same person, but most were Links of their time: either different people entirely or the descendants of their heroic ancestors. Many Princess Zeldas also appear in Hyrule’s history as leaders, but this is because they, too, have taken on the legendary moniker of Zelda.”

  43. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 2:15 pm -      #43

    A connection to the spirit realm is not really important. There is nothing that says that TP Link is not communicating with a past life.

    “He doesn’t have some connection to a spirit realm.”

    No Link has a connection to the spirit realm. The Hero’s spirit was forged by the goddess hylia.

    “Those like you… Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero… They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!” — Demise (Skyward Sword)”

    Demise curses Zeldas desendants and Links reincarnations.
    – – –
    Being a distant descendant of Link does not exclude you from being a reincarnation of Link.
    – – –
    “The heroes that appear in this chronology are all known as Link.”

    Okay, share a name

    “It may have been their true name, but perhaps they were called something different.”

    Maybe share a name, its not really improtant.

    “Some are the same person”

    Like ocarina of time/majoras mask
    Alttp/oracles/links awakening ect

    “but most were Links of their time: either different people entirely”

    A reincarnation with no blood relation

    “or the descendants of their heroic ancestors.”

    A reincarnation with a blood relation
    – – –
    Nothing you have said proves that TP Link has a separate spirit to any other Link.

    The most compelling evidence that they share a spirit is that he is Link. That is kind of the point.

  44. Mea quidem sententia July 4, 2015 at 2:20 pm -      #44

    If they’re fighting that fast, then they’re talking that fast. Your video relies on conjecture.

  45. Mea quidem sententia July 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm -      #45

    As for Link and the spirit of the hero, that’s not necessarily literal. The second definition of the Oxford English Dictionary says, “The prevailing or typical quality, mood, or attitude of a person, group, or period of time”. That makes sense. Sentence examples include the following.

    We have despatched a wealth of business together over a short period in a spirit of optimism.

    It was a change in attitude, a spirit of openness and mutual trust because that clearly was at the crux of the matter.

    The perception, he admits, might be that government is handing down what is right for people, and an election gives an opportunity to listen to people in a spirit of humility.

  46. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 2:47 pm -      #46

    “A connection to the spirit realm is not really important.”
    /
    You were comparing the Avatar to Link. They are different.
    /
    “There is nothing that says that TP Link is not communicating with a past life.”
    /
    Hyrule Historia just did.
    /
    “No Link has a connection to the spirit realm. The Hero’s spirit was forged by the goddess hylia.”
    /
    Wat?
    Then that means his spirit was created by a god, not a connection to a spirit realm.
    /
    “Those like you… Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero… They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!” — Demise (Skyward Sword)”
    Demise curses Zeldas desendants and Links reincarnations.”
    /
    On the other hand, Ganondorf has appeared when a Zelda not related by blood was there in the first Zelda game where there were multiple Zeldas and when Link didn’t reincarnate in TP.
    /
    “Being a distant descendant of Link does not exclude you from being a reincarnation of Link.”
    /
    How about the fact that OoT never died and only became a Stalfos?
    Then, there’s the fact that same Link is a ghost and still exists in OoT Link than TP Link?
    Then there’s the fact that the Wind Waker Link inherited the hero of time’s spirit and not TP Link.
    /
    “Maybe share a name, its not really improtant.”
    /
    Or they were called someone else than Link.
    /
    “Like ocarina of time/majoras mask
    Alttp/oracles/links awakening ect”
    /
    Or like OoT Link
    /
    “A reincarnation with no blood relation”
    /
    TP Link on the other hand isn’t a reincarnation of OoT Link.
    /
    “A reincarnation with a blood relation”
    /
    TP Link says no.
    /
    “Nothing you have said proves that TP Link has a separate spirit to any other Link.”
    /
    Yeah I just did.
    /
    “The most compelling evidence that they share a spirit is that he is Link. That is kind of the point.”
    /
    Some of them aren’t called Link, they are just known as Link.

  47. Spectral Observer July 4, 2015 at 3:45 pm -      #47

    I found this description in Bayonetta 2 a while ago. Turns out her giga-bullshit-tons may be canon after all:
    ===
    A giant endowed with six fearsome arms capable of pulverizing mountains, those unfortunate enough to fall underfoot of the demon are subject to days-long violent earthquakes.
    Lacking knowledge, but brimming with brutality, it is said that even the most powerful of conjurers should take heed of the danger this beast presents.
    – Hekatoncheir description, The Book of Infernal Demons
    ===

  48. Spectral Observer July 4, 2015 at 3:51 pm -      #48

    Just missed the edit timer.
    ===
    youtu.be/M3tkx0HIt1A
    -7:05
    ===

  49. Alpha or Omega July 4, 2015 at 4:04 pm -      #49

    Huh, so it isn’t a point multiplier and it’s actually acknowledged.

    Very noice.

  50. Karen Starr July 4, 2015 at 4:29 pm -      #50

    Damn that makes me love Bayo just a little bit more.

  51. Nsl98 July 4, 2015 at 4:49 pm -      #51

    Cloud canonically tanks city busting blasts:
    [Bahamut-Sin and Cloud race toward each other with insane speed.
    Bahamut-Sin lets out a massive blast capable of destroying the entire
    city. The massive ball of energy is the only thing standing in
    between them.]
    [Cloud goes straight through the blast and tries hard to reach
    Bahamut-Sin despite the pressure being put on him from the blast.]


    ^From the script.

  52. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 5:00 pm -      #52

    So, what is the general view here about witch time and cloud?

  53. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 5:11 pm -      #53

    Your video relies on conjecture.

    No? We know the height of Shinra HQ and we know how fast things fall. The only “conjecture” is what we’re watching isn’t real-time; which isn’t conjecture so much as visibly true throughout the entire movie.

    Are you really going to tell me the movie that is FULL of both slow-motion AND sped-up shots does not have time distortion? Especially when the same movie comes with an OVA that shows people moving faster than bullets?

    Cloud canonically tanks city busting blasts

    I’m not sure I’d use that one, he got sort of shield from his friends and Aerith appeared in the middle of the blast- too many variables that make it not fully Cloud.

  54. Kitten Lord July 4, 2015 at 5:17 pm -      #54

    @NS

    No he doesnt, it never hits the city not busts a city….so he was not hit by a blast that busts a city.

    @Lady

    “So, what is the general view here about witch time and cloud?”

    He only has resistance against a specific status effect so something that I assume twists time itself as a concept should work on him.

  55. wingedlion July 4, 2015 at 5:33 pm -      #55

    I’m not getting the problem here. Time manipulation is the control of the passage of time. It’s not like Bayo is doing something different from what’s shown in FF7. She’s just affecting the passage of time on a larger scale, which means she has a greater area of effect than slow and stop in FF7. I don’t see why that would stop Cloud from ignoring it.

  56. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 5:42 pm -      #56

    Because If a single target is stopped in time, then there is still a normal flow of time for them to return to. If all of time is stopped, then they have no normal time frame to return to, because all of time is slow. Somehow resisting a universal tim slow is ridiculous, because that would mean that the individual doing the resisting would actually have to then be moving faster than time would allow. if that makes any sense.

  57. wingedlion July 4, 2015 at 5:52 pm -      #57

    @LadyRamkin
    “Because If a single target is stopped in time, then there is still a normal flow of time for them to return to. If all of time is stopped, then they have no normal time frame to return to, because all of time is slow.”

    All that means is that the passage of time is being affected for that one person. If a person has shown the ability to already resist the affects of time acting against them, there’s no reason a time attack that would have a larger AoE would work. It just means more people are affected.

    “Somehow resisting a universal tim slow is ridiculous, because that would mean that the individual doing the resisting would actually have to then be moving faster than time would allow. if that makes any sense.”

    You don’t have to be moving faster than time would allow. You would just have to have the ability to protect yourself against time acting against you.

  58. Kitten Lord July 4, 2015 at 6:28 pm -      #58

    its a question of specifics, Bay is affecting time itself, not Cloud. Cloud only has resistance against targeted spells. Stop/Slow materia affect targets specifically.

  59. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 6:46 pm -      #59

    “You don’t have to be moving faster than time would allow. You would just have to have the ability to protect yourself against time acting against you.”

    But time would not be acting “against” you As far as you would be aware time was still moving at the same rate. It would be imperceptible. Time is moving slower. the target is not moving any slower than they normally do. Since speed is distance over time, and the distance covered is still the same at the current rate of time. You can say that they resist time slowing effects, but that does not make any sense if time itself is slower. what would you be resisting. In order to resist you would be working to realign your self with the normal flow of time. But the normal flow of time is now slower than it originaly was. you would be moving at the same rate as the rest of the unbiverse there would bve nothing for you to free yourself from, and no faster rate of time for you to get back to. The only sufficient way to counter a universal time slow is to apply a time acceleration effect to your self, like haste. Which would make you move at a faster rate of time to the rest of the universe.

    I think. That is how i see it anyway

  60. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 6:54 pm -      #60

    Okay, analogy. I know all my analogies are bad but i do like to try.

    Okay Time is a river, and cloud is a boat. The boat is caught in the current and has no method of moving under its own power. When Stop is cast on cloud. Its like attaching an anchor to the boat, the boat stops moving but the current keeps going. The boat is the only thing not moving in the river.

    Now, cloud has an immunity that means the boat has some bolt cutters and can sever any anchor attached to him, so that he can once again flow down the river.

    But a universal time stop would be like freezing the river, the river is no longer flowing the current is no longer pulling the boat, no amount of bolt cutters will get that boat moving. because the river is not moving any more and the boat has no form of propulsion, it is dead in the water.

    Okay?

  61. Karen Starr July 4, 2015 at 7:28 pm -      #61

    That’s a pretty good analogy actually.

  62. LadyRamkin July 4, 2015 at 7:30 pm -      #62

    www.quickmeme.com/img/1e/1e14d255c1deb8a76fecc186df9666ac22b2f3fd3721610c21832dd4b640bcf0.jpg

  63. Aelfinn July 4, 2015 at 9:01 pm -      #63

    I’m pretty sure that Bayonetta plays at a whole different speed than Cloud. Even without Witch Time, she fights the very first boss of Bayonetta 2 at what looks like to us as normal speed, while we can see in the background that the rest of the world is in a very intense slow-mo.

  64. Mea quidem sententia July 4, 2015 at 9:09 pm -      #64

    Spectral Observer #47
    Not necessarily. This is referring to Hekatoncheir, not Bayonetta’s point multiplier.

    Friendlysociopath #53
    Yes. Just because the video doesn’t accurately portray how fast an object falls doesn’t mean you get the right to double or quadruple its speed. Cloud isn’t on Earth. The map of the planet doesn’t even look anywhere remotely similar to Earth’s. Slowing down the speed in a video is typical.

  65. Spectral Observer July 4, 2015 at 9:25 pm -      #65

    @Mea

    The description refers to Hekatoncheir being able to shatter mountains and cause multiple days’ worth of earthquakes, his hits being measured in the gigatons. At the very least, it proves that one of Bayonetta’s summons can cause as much damage as the point multiplier suggests. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt, though, that it might simply be a coincidence and the point multiplier might still be arbitrary nonsense.

  66. Mea quidem sententia July 4, 2015 at 10:04 pm -      #66

    Considering Bayonetta could get up to “infiniton”, I don’t see any reason why she’d need Hekatoncheir in the first place if these multipliers are to be taken at face value.

  67. Spectral Observer July 4, 2015 at 10:35 pm -      #67

    She can’t get there by herself. The only beings that can get there are Queen Sheba and Omne, the “God” figures if their specific realms. Bayonetta herself can only get to a teraton with that skyscraper headbutt against Balder in the first game.

  68. Numinous One July 4, 2015 at 10:43 pm -      #68

    only get to a teraton
    Sweet jesus.

  69. Limbo Lowk July 4, 2015 at 11:31 pm -      #69

    What Ramkin said about the time thing. That is how I’m seeing it.
    ===
    “Bayonetta herself can only get to a teraton”

    So Bayonetta and Asura walk into a bar.
    The planet explodes.

  70. Friendlysociopath July 4, 2015 at 11:34 pm -      #70

    The argument “Then they’re also talking fast” has never not been stupid in my mind. Every fiction that has fast characters still has them talking, that’s not a good reason to say, “They aren’t going fast because they’re talking”. Flash never shuts up. Spiderman is one of the chattiest heroes in the universe. Both are able to casually break the sound barrier while moving and fighting.
    In addition, you’ll notice the only times they’re actually talking during that fight is in the “calm” portions, like when they’ve locked blades or are flying through the air. The part of the video where the building falls has not a single word of dialogue in the fight.

    Just because the video doesn’t accurately portray how fast an object falls doesn’t mean you get the right to double or quadruple its speed.

    That’s actually exactly what it means, they know exactly how tall that building is and they’ve made multiple statements and showings that the characters are superhuman. The obvious answer to, “Why did it take so long to fall?” is the same answer to the question, “Why can we see the bullets flying?” because the characters are fast enough to do so.
    Furthermore, this is frikking Square Enix, the cinematic kings of gaming. They know exactly how these things work. Which leads me to my next point.

    The map of the planet doesn’t even look anywhere remotely similar to Earth’s.

    So let me get this straight, rather than just admit to the evidence that Cloud and company are just that fast (which is supported by numerous, canon, feats) you instead want to say they’re on a planet that isn’t Earth?
    Despite the fact that we see, often, that things can fall at perfectly normal speeds most of the time?
    Despite the fact that we see the planet several times in the series? and it looks extremely Earth-like?
    Oh, and let’s not forget that SEPHIROTH NAMES THE PLANETS AS SUPERNOVA PASSES THEM.

  71. LadyRamkin July 5, 2015 at 5:20 am -      #71

    Okay, might seem like a stupid question, how do we know the building is falling too slowly?
    – – –
    Also, i still think Bayonetta witch time wins this.

  72. Kitten Lord July 5, 2015 at 5:40 am -      #72

    @Friendly

    Your grasping at straws as usual. Look at the characters themselves, Clouds hair, his clothing, Sephiroths especially who has really long hair and wears a long coat.

    Answer this, does it look like those items are moving as if in a hurricane wind at supersonic speed? The answer is obviously no.

    The more likely answer is that physics in the scene are not being shown with respect to reality, further evidence is in a lot of FF scenes where the characters look like their floating about.

    You also need to consider the fact that for all you know, only that scene of the building falling is in slowed time, you cannot necesserily prove the fighting is unless you can see things in the background moving crazy slow and even then, its all about perception. The camera is further away from that falling building for example than it is when we see Cloud and Sephiroth.

    Their clothing and hair acts like its in a slight breeze, if they were moving at greater speeds, it should be going crazy…its not….

    This is some of the worst reaching I have seen from you so far Friendly. Speeding up a video timer just because a building in the background looks like its falling slowly? “sigh”

    @Bay supporters saying she hits with what we perceive as gigatons…

    I have played this game, and a nuclear storm that wrecks the citiy their fighting in does not happen every time those numbers come up…..they are meaningless points obviously.

  73. LadyRamkin July 5, 2015 at 7:45 am -      #73

    “I have played this game, and a nuclear storm that wrecks the citiy their fighting in does not happen every time those numbers come up…..they are meaningless points obviously.”

    Well, most of the combat happens while time is all screwy. Since time is important in speed/acceleration, and acceleration is integral to force. It is possible that Bayonetta has Ridiculous strength because of her time powers slow everything down.

    Maybe the force from the impacts cant spread through time distorted matter or some such, pure BS speculation but you never know

  74. LadyRamkin July 5, 2015 at 7:59 am -      #74

    I am really bad at physics, biology is more my jam. I have no idea how…forces… work, or anything but i do know that a compression wave need a medium to be transmitted. For instance when we talk the sound is transmitted through the air.

    Now as far as i can tell, If the air is at a slower time frame, then it cannot transmit the force of something moving at a higher time frame. The force would hit the air molecules Which would not be able to move fast enough to pass it on.

    Which would potentially mean that the opponents would absorb way more of the force than the surrounding environment and would therefore severely reduce collateral damage to the area.

    But i really have no idea what i am taking about, and am posting purely because i have nothing better to do than make up psudo science nonsense.

  75. Friendlysociopath July 5, 2015 at 9:46 am -      #75

    Answer this, does it look like those items are moving as if in a hurricane wind at supersonic speed?

    So let me get this right, if the environment and characters do not act like they’re going the right speed or using the correct strength- then they obviously aren’t doing so?
    Fantastic, Kain and Raziel are then barely peak human as Raziel’s hit on Kain does not look anywhere near gigatons of force. Raziel even hurls Kain back into the wall and the wall is entirely undamaged.

    Pick your way of thinking Kitten, you can’t have it be your way only for one character and not any other.

    how do we know the building is falling too slowly?

    The building is 70 stories tall, but the scene where the pieces are falling is almost a minute long. Due to the constant of gravity, they should’ve been on the ground in less than 7 seconds. Since it took not a little longer than 7 seconds, but a LOT longer, the only answer (that is supported by canon) is that they’re fighting at speeds greater than what we’re watching.
    I personally find it interesting that the scene is exactly 8 times slowed down. Not 7.5, not 9.1, exactly 8 times. 6.5 seconds is what it requires for those pieces to hit the ground. 6.5 x 8 = 52 seconds.
    52 seconds happens to be exactly how long it takes for those building blocks to fall.

    We already know the characters move at superhuman speeds, as Cloud casually blocks bullets with full swings (Kitten disagrees), Sephiroth slashes faster than the eye can follow his sword (Kitten probably disagrees), and Zack moves his body faster than bullets (Kitten disagrees again). All of that is visually confirmed by cutscenes.

    Kitten fails at basically watching videos due to troll-eyes being notoriously blind, he sees things that aren’t there and misses obvious things that are there.
    For example, he will somehow repeatedly miss Zack moving faster than bullets here no matter how many times you show it to him and will instead focus on the aim of the soldiers as if that somehow affects the feat.

  76. Mea quidem sententia July 5, 2015 at 11:08 am -      #76

    Spectral Observer #67
    That’s still higher than a gigaton.

    Friendlysociopath #70
    I never said they’re not going fast because they’re talking. That’s a straw man. I said if everything is going that fast, then they must be speaking that fast as well. At least with the example of the Flash, if he’s moving fast while talking, it looks something like: “HeySuperman,I’msocool.”

    Regardless of whether or not Cloud and Sephiroth are talking when they’re “calm” still doesn’t change the fact that the entire thing is sped up times 2 and times 4. Sorry, but you don’t get to pick and choose when everything is fast and when everything is slow. If the speed has to be normalized when they speak, then anyone in their universe is still hearing, “I’mgoingtomurderyou,Cloud”, or they’re also moving that fast.

    Why does it take very long for that broken object to fall? I don’t know. For one, the building is very tall. We also don’t know if the internal structure is slowing the falling down. Regardless, just because Cloud and Sephiroth are superhuman doesn’t mean they slice and dice, Raiden-style. Bullets are slowed down usually because it’s cool.

    They aren’t on Earth. Cloud and Sephiroth may be fast, but not at the amplified speeds you put them. There’s no evidence for this. There’s no statement about this. You have nothing more than a video where some chunk of a building falls down. The only time you can work with anything speeding up or slowing down is when the video does that, which is funny, since the video slows down temporarily when Cloud jumps off his sword.

    Well, if the entire scene was slower than normal, then there wouldn’t be any reason to slow it down any further. I’m glad you used the word “Earth-like”. There are plenty of “Earth-like” planets.

    A 70 story building would be 231 meters. Taking 54 seconds would mean that planet has an acceleration of 0.16 m/s^2. Or, if you want, the speed of the debris would be 4.28 m/s. In order to get close to 9.81 m/s^2, the time it’d take for that to fall would be around 6.5 seconds. So if my math on this next part is correct, the increase in speed would need to be multiplied by 14%, not 200 or 400% like you were doing.

  77. Friendlysociopath July 5, 2015 at 1:21 pm -      #77

    Regardless of whether or not Cloud and Sephiroth are talking when they’re “calm” still doesn’t change the fact that the entire thing is sped up times 2 and times 4

    Just to be clear, real-time is x8; the other two were just me leading up to it. x2 and x4 were just “extra flavor to the video” if I were to describe it.

    Why does it take very long for that broken object to fall?

    …Because they’re fast and conversely everything else looks slower. That’s how heightened reaction times work.

    We also don’t know if the internal structure is slowing the falling down.

    It comes off the building and then Sephiroth flings it further away so we know for sure it isn’t sticking to the building. I acknowledge the calc isn’t 100% perfect, but I also didn’t account for density- chunks of concrete and steel falling are far more dense than most materials and so should fall faster.

    There’s no evidence for this. There’s no statement about this.

    No evidence of time dilation? Entire movie proves you wrong there. Multiple examples of them speeding up and slowing down time in literally every fight scene.
    No examples of them moving at high speed? That’s rather silly of you since you already admitted in another thread Zack is moving faster than bullets were. Sephiroth swings his sword faster than the eye can follow. Cloud casually blocks bullets from multiple shooters. Vincent moves fast enough to teleport and leave afterimages.
    All of this points to well above normal speed for the cast involved.

    Taking 54 seconds would mean that planet has an acceleration of 0.16 m/s^2.

    The planet has Earth’s gravity; as proven by people and objects falling down perfectly fine by Earth’s gravity so long as Cloud is not involved. You’re stretching really hard to disagree with something you already agreed to in premise; they’re fast.

    Which idea is more likely? The one supported by canon? They’re just super fast? It’s not the regular humans who get extreme speed feats, only altered ones like Cloud and Vincent.
    Or your suggestion, that they’re living on a planet with odd physics that only malfunction when a fight scene is going down? A planet that is in the exact same solar system as Earth in the exact same place as Earth but is (for whatever reason) not Earth?

    ^One of those ideas requires a hell of a lot more assumptions and has very little to back it up. And it’s not the one where they move fast.

  78. Kitten Lord July 5, 2015 at 2:56 pm -      #78

    @Friendly

    ” Kain and Raziel are then barely peak human as Raziel’s hit on Kain does not look anywhere near gigatons of force”

    Good job outing your foot right in it because it was never gigatons of force, its closer to only about 100 tons, which is not that much in the grand scheme of things.

    “but the scene where the pieces are falling is almost a minute long.”

    Never heard of cinematic exaggeration?

    ” All of that is visually confirmed by cutscenes.”

    No its interpreted by his fans as confirmed.

    “Kitten fails at basically watching videos”

    This is the guy who claims a series cannot show injury because the developers are unable to (according to him) yet after being shown Kain ripping the bones from Raziels wings still goes on to try and argue that Raziel somehow suddenly sprouted red feathers (his wings are not feathered) where the blood is…..

    Your the only one who is trolling buddy ol pal, your a proven liar hence why I will give you a hard time especially when you make daft comments on Cloud which you have been doing a lot lately.

    “nstead focus on the aim of the soldiers as if that somehow affects the feat.”

    It does because the aim is so bad they cannot hit him when hes standing still. That one fact makes any feat of dodging bullets poor.

    Further evidence it is not super speed is because Zack is jumping about on gravel, and you do not see any rocks or piecies of debris flying off do you? let alone the amount of damage he would do every time his foot hits the ground at supersonic speed..

    I think Mea did a calc on impulse force of a supersonic human in the DBZ power level thread and it came up pretty high.

    “No evidence of time dilation? Entire movie proves you wrong there”

    Your setting up a straw man here, if the movie has a few scenes of time dilation, and I do not mean your conjecture on someone looking 1% slower, i mean something we know is very fast going massively slower. Bullets are the typical example but falling objects may be useful as well however as I pointed out there are a ton of holes in the reasoning for that building, even more in just multiplying the video speed and on top of that assuming that the slow was not purely for that scene. There could have been a few second of slow for that one building, and your extrapolating it to the whole fight…

  79. Limbo Lowk July 5, 2015 at 3:16 pm -      #79

    Good job outing your foot right in it because it was never gigatons of force, its closer to only about 100 tons, which is not that much in the grand scheme of things.

    You guys have all been jaded by the gigabigatons of fiction.

    look at this shit
    1
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAYVMXYYAp4
    20
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWZcT-kr-_o
    50
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIQr62lZbsM
    Someone woke one day and was like you know what, I WANT MORE EXPLOSION!

  80. Friendlysociopath July 5, 2015 at 3:24 pm -      #80

    Also, i still think Bayonetta witch time wins this.

    Assuming that resistance to timefuckery for some reason does not work against timefuckery, I agree. Most matches with Timefuckery rarely get past that point; not much you can do if you’re frozen in time. That’s why villains with that power tend to require some sort of PIS to deal with.

    Unless Cloud were to one-shot her with his headstart that he gets from Preemptive Materia; which probably won’t happen as I’m sure Bayonetta is uber-fast.

    You guys have all been jaded by the gigabigatons of fiction.

    When someone tells me their character needs Superman to hurt him, I tend to become a bit jaded.

  81. Spectral Observer July 5, 2015 at 3:31 pm -      #81

    @Mea

    In all actuality, Bayonetta doesn’t need her summons to kill things. It’s her M.O. to soften up the bosses so that all the summons have to so is finish them off. It shows her dominance over them since she doesn’t need to rely on them to do most of the work, and fulfills her end of her contracts, since she has to constantly sacrifice angels or the demons she is in contract with will have claim over her soul. She’s shown the ability to fight evenly and kill summons, as has Balder. Ergo they are more powerful than most of the summons featured in the games. Bayonetta 2 even features bosses that were previously summons in the first game, and Bayonetta kills them just as well as she does the angel bosses, which just so happen to be the type that Balder summons.

    I think that sort of justifies why Bayonetta’s bullshit teraton headbutt was rated higher than her summons’ attacks, all of which were casually murdered by old Balder and used to heal his wounds.

  82. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 5, 2015 at 4:00 pm -      #82

    “Fantastic, Kain and Raziel are then barely peak human as Raziel’s hit on Kain does not look anywhere near gigatons of force. Raziel even hurls Kain back into the wall and the wall is entirely undamaged.”

    Don’t forget, according to KL, he was moving twice the speed of light

  83. Friendlysociopath July 5, 2015 at 4:28 pm -      #83

    Don’t forget, according to KL, he was moving twice the speed of light

    That’s a new one to me, I’m still back to him claiming Kain uses several tons of force in combat but only throws humans a few meters into the air or to the side with it. And when he threw Raziel he barely cratered the wall.
    Also, his TK apparently has no travel time and no indication of where it’s going- despite him producing particles from his hand in whichever direction he’s using it; guess that’s purely for theatrics?
    I may have found an opponent for Composite Cloud after all.

  84. Mea quidem sententia July 5, 2015 at 4:34 pm -      #84

    @Friendlysociopath #77
    If you want to speed up the video, you can. I’ll be sure to apply the same thing to any other media where a falling object should actually hit the ground at a certain time.

  85. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 5, 2015 at 4:41 pm -      #85

    @Friendly From his respect thread on the Topia: BankGamblingtopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45106

    Also, I’m going to send you a video later today(or maybe tomorrow)on your Youtube page. Hope you don’t mind.

    “Using Meas fist as the example of the area, and the above figuires on Kains pressure resistance, then we can find force required to equal the damage Raziel did to Kain, only with a punch. Kains pressure resistance based on above numbers is 11.6 Terapascals so to find force, we multiply pressure with area; 11.6 TP x 0.0049596675 (meas fist) which gives us 49.596675 giganewtons of force required.

    To add to this, using this calculator, easycalculation.com/physics/clas … /force.php I wanted to find out how fast a man would have to go to do the same damage to Kain as Raziel with a punch. Using 80kg as a mans weight (fairly large man, hell a lot of fantasy characters are) I found that the force required to create equal pressures to Raziels claw strikes with a punch would need speeds up to twice the speed of light.”

  86. Mea quidem sententia July 5, 2015 at 4:50 pm -      #86

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets #85
    If I’m not mistaken, Raziel’s claws would only need to be extremely hard, thereby ignoring the speed for the thrust to be twice the speed of light.

  87. LadyRamkin July 5, 2015 at 5:39 pm -      #87

    “The building is 70 stories tall, but the scene where the pieces are falling is almost a minute long. Due to the constant of gravity, they should’ve been on the ground in less than 7 seconds. ”

    7 seconds to fall 70 stories?? Really? wow… I really know nothing about physics.
    – – –
    “Assuming that resistance to timefuckery for some reason does not work against timefuckery”

    That is an equivocation fallacy. I think.

  88. Mea quidem sententia July 5, 2015 at 6:08 pm -      #88

    6.863 seconds to be precise.

  89. Kitten Lord July 5, 2015 at 6:11 pm -      #89

    @Bullets

    “Don’t forget, according to KL, he was moving twice the speed of light”

    I never said Raziel moved at any speed close to the speed of light, or even supersonic.

    Your just have no idea what I was talking about clearly.

  90. Spectral Observer July 5, 2015 at 6:47 pm -      #90

    I’m a little on the fence with regards to the scale of Bayonetta’s time magic being too much for Cloud’s resistance. Here is the difference I’m seeing between the two:

    Relative to real time, whenever Bayonetta uses Witch Time, she almost literally rips herself out of the normal flow of time, which results in her appearing to teleport, or move very fast as demonstrated by cutscenes in her first game. To the outsider, it’s as if time is still flowing as it should. When Cloud’s stop is in effect, he isn’t removing himself from the flow of time at all, but his magic is directly affecting the target so that it is instead frozen in time. For that specific target, it is as if time stopped, even though the area of effect is specifically limited.

    On the one hand, if time magic=time magic, then it should follow that Cloud’s resistances should work, since it cancels out time magic that freezes opponents in time. That should carry if Bayonetta actually freezes all of time when she casts Witch Time. On the other hand, if Witch Time is actually cast on the user, then there is nothing Cloud’s resistances can do, since his spells depend on the caster being in real time while the target is suspended in a sort of “time field.”

    Cloud’s resistances will only work on time magic if it involves freezing the time around the target, but not against time magic that removes the user from the regular flow of time. The effects of their time magic may be similar in effect relative to the targets’ perception of time, but in this case, what matters is where the caster is relative to the flow of time. Cloud never removes himself from the flow of time while Bayonetta seems to. I think it’s this difference that determines the effectiveness of time+added effect against Witch Time.

    If Witch Time is cast on Bayonetta, then Cloud’s time resistance is useless against it. It’s a passive effect that defends against offensive time magic. If Witch Time is instead cast on time itself, then Cloud’s resistances might work since it works on the principle I stated above–it removes the target from the regular flow of time and suspends them. In other words, it depends on whether Witch Time affects the user or the target.

    Admittedly, I don’t remember what Witch Time actually does in canon, but that’s my two cents on the matter.

  91. LadyRamkin July 5, 2015 at 8:13 pm -      #91

    Cloud being immune to a universal time stop is incomprehensible. He would have to make himself completely exempt from the flow of time. He would have no reason to remain in the present. Time would be a non factor to him. He would be able to move forwards, backwards, sideways, up, down, diagonally, and direction through time, at will, because he would be exempt from it. In the words of the Bajoran prophets, he would not be “linear”. He would also be effectively immortal.

  92. Karen Starr July 5, 2015 at 8:15 pm -      #92

    The word witch usually conjures up images in our head of an old woman using strange magic, but peruse the history of Vigrid and you find a vastly different picture of the incredibly brave women who once inhabited the area.

    They were known as the Umbra Witches. While these witches are said to have manipulated magic, there remains very little recorded history to back these claims. Yet, they shared many powers with their opposing counterparts the Lumen Sages, and from their records, we can gather a better view of what magic entailed.

    As “Overseers of History,” they possessed the ability to literally see everything in an instant, also known as Temporal Control. This technique sharpened all of the five senses, and pushed one’s emotional energy to its very limits. It is a world where a falling drop of water can become a crown, and a humming-bird slowly and elegantly flaps its wings. Temporal Control is not just simply being able to recognize this world, it also enables one to boost their physical abilities and move freely within that single moment.

    Temporal Control requires a sound body and mind, and complete grasp of Spirit Energy. While quite similar, the witches and sages each practiced this art differently, leading to different names for their respective techniques, Witch Time and Light Speed.

    Witch Time… It seems that the witches on this earth fell victim to our world’s passage of time and vanished into the abyss of eternity. – Antonio’s Notebook
    —–
    (A little bit lore about Witch time/Light Speed)

  93. Limbo Lowk July 5, 2015 at 8:25 pm -      #93

    It sounds like witch time is more of a time accelerate. So instead of slowing time they accelerate themselves in time to a point where the world looks slow.

  94. Karen Starr July 5, 2015 at 8:28 pm -      #94

    There is another thing that seems to never fully be brought up in debates with Bayonetta. She can place herself out of phase with the natural world. It’s how she has to fight angels, because and I’ll look into it more, because I don’t think they can be attacked without actually shifting into the other world, but things in that other world can interact with those in the normal world. It also makes them invisible unless you’re supernaturally born(witch, demon, angel, or Sage)or wearing something enchanted to let you see them.

  95. LadyRamkin July 5, 2015 at 8:32 pm -      #95

    “Acting as a parallel reality to the Human World and not necessarily a member of the Trinity, Purgatorio is a realm that is most similar to the human interpretation of purgatory, as its name suggests. Angels, demons and magically linked humans can travel to within Purgatorio in order to conduct their affairs (and in Bayonetta’s case, battles) without interfering in the realm of humans.”

    It should be noted that things from our world can interact with people in Purgatorio. Bayonetta Attacks angels with lamp posts while they are in there.

    What affects can actually apply between realms is a bit vague though.

  96. Karen Starr July 5, 2015 at 8:36 pm -      #96

    Does Bayonetta have all her ingames weapons to pull from, like the brazillions, shiruba, Salamandra (chainswords, and boots) the revolver nunchucks etc-etc?

  97. Karen Starr July 5, 2015 at 8:38 pm -      #97

    Salamandra was my favorite leg weapon in Bayo2 btw, with soi-fon being my favorite weapon in 1

  98. LadyRamkin July 5, 2015 at 8:38 pm -      #98

    She would be current incarnation, so she should have all of her weapons that she gets in Bayonetta 2.

    I never managed to get Soi-fon. So much disappoint.
    – – –
    Off topic, Bayonetta 2 was a bit of a let down, The enemies seemed way too spongy to compensate for umbran climax, and it just didnt have the same sense of fun to it. Where were the dance offs, the confetti, the RIDING A MOTOR BIKE IN TO SPACE.
    Took itself way too seriously.

    The bosses seemed really bland too, The only decent one was Balder, and he got a bit stale, after the first 3 times you fight the bastad.

  99. Karen Starr July 5, 2015 at 8:44 pm -      #99

    This debate has me wanting to replay the Bayonetta games, and I asked because it’s brought up with Dante all the time also.

  100. Karen Starr July 5, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #100

    I just hated the god damned kid with his terrible accent. That was the worst British accent ever. Aside form that I loved it, more so all the fun Ninty stuff.

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