Kain Vs Percy Jackson

Kain Vs Percy Jackson

Suggested by Amm0vamp1r3

Kain goes up against Percy Jackson

Kain from the Legacy Of Kain series versus Percy Jackson from the story of the same name. Both have great records of FP I don’t think either of them have taken a recorded loss. So which one of them keeps their streak going?

Both in their current incarnations

Who will win?

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195 Comments on "Kain Vs Percy Jackson"

  1. Rookie April 1, 2015 at 5:06 am -      #1

    I think that Percy can and will win. Kain is weak to water after all.

  2. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 6:29 am -      #2

    Percy is a bullet timer with supersonic+ water manipulation and the durability to take a volcanic eruption to the face.
    ——
    What can Kain do? Looking at some last threads, he’s pretty powerful…

  3. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 8:25 am -      #3

    Really? I swear Kain’s lost a match somewhere on here- then again that might have been a group battle, we have a lot of those going.

    Initial bets on the guy with diamond hard skin that can mind rape.

  4. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 8:37 am -      #4

    Oh, and pretty sure Percy lost to MoS Supes.
    —–
    Does diamond hard skin protect him from the amount of force Percy has with water?

  5. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 10:51 am -      #5

    Does diamond hard skin protect him from the amount of force Percy has with water?

    Whoever did the calcs specifically remarked that it would require something around Superman’s caliber to deal with Kain’s physical durability- and I don’t think he meant MoS Superman either.

    That said, water burns him- but it takes time to kill him; it’s not an instant “touch and die” scenario.
    He also has a way to resist it but I’m unsure of how canon it is.

    It took Raziel how long to actually die? 100 years? 200?
    Errr… 1500? That can’t be right…

  6. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 11:11 am -      #6

    “Whoever did the calcs specifically remarked that it would require something around Superman’s caliber to deal with Kain’s physical durability- and I don’t think he meant MoS Superman either.”

    Im 99.999999999999999% sure whoever did that calc had absolutely no fucking idea how strong Superman is.

    Anyhow, I recall people agreeing (after an incredibly prolonged debate) that he’s weaker to blunt trauma than he is to piercing hits… Or the other way around.

    Kitten Lord or Mea! Help!

    Also… I’m pretty sure Percy can deal with Diamonds without much issue.
    However the “diamond hard” might just be a figure of speech?

  7. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 11:43 am -      #7

    However the “diamond hard” might just be a figure of speech?

    He had calcs, he scaled it from Raziel doing a few things:
    Punching straight into stone
    Picking up and moving pillars multiple times his size
    the size of Raziel and hsi claws
    and how Raziel hitting Kain did nothing to him whatsoever in a cutscene.
    It might be on the topia somewhere… I’ll check other Kain threads to see if I can find it

    Found it
    www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45106

  8. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 11:52 am -      #8

    “He had calcs, he scaled it from Raziel doing a few things:
    Punching straight into stone
    Picking up and moving pillars multiple times his size
    the size of Raziel and hsi claws
    and how Raziel hitting Kain did nothing to him whatsoever in a cutscene.”

    ….And this somehow seems comparable to Superman?
    A guy that lifted a star, three times.

  9. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 11:58 am -      #9

    ….And this somehow seems comparable to Superman?
    A guy that lifted a star, three times.


    Don’t shoot the messenger; take it up with Kitten Lord.

    That said, most of Kain revolves around:
    Mind Rape
    Being hard to damage
    Massive regen from said damage
    and then his teleportation/intagibility

    Does anyone else just sit there, glaring at their past comments and spelling mistakes, or is it just me?

  10. Amm0vamp1r3 April 1, 2015 at 12:05 pm -      #10

    That said, most of Kain revolves around:
    Mind Rape
    Being hard to damage
    Massive regen from said damage
    and then his teleportation/intangibility


    One reason I thought this would be a good fight, percy has water one of the biggest weaknesses of Kain plus doesn’t he have a sword that hurts monsters?

  11. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 12:17 pm -      #11

    You might wanna suggest a match location btw.
    Would drastically alter the outcome.

    AFAIK creating water exhausts Percy.

  12. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 12:24 pm -      #12

    You might wanna suggest a match location btw.
    Would drastically alter the outcome.


    Wouldn’t a neutral arena have some manner of water nearby anyways?

  13. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 12:28 pm -      #13

    The effectiveness the sword would have is more questionable of late, foreign mythologies seem to have issue affecting each other in the Percy Jackson Universe, one instance in particular being Riptide not instantly killing an Egyptian Monster with a wound that would’ve been fatal turn to dust material for a Greek Monster.

    So its debatable how that’s going to come into play here since like the Egyptian creature Kain is alien to Greek Mythology

  14. Amm0vamp1r3 April 1, 2015 at 12:28 pm -      #14

    Wouldn’t a neutral arena have some manner of water nearby anyways?

    Yes, I think it would. An area where both of them can work at 100%

  15. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 12:32 pm -      #15

    An area where both of them can work at 100%

    Pretty much the only variables are:
    Needs water
    No sun

  16. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 12:36 pm -      #16

    Kamino

  17. Rookie April 1, 2015 at 12:56 pm -      #17

    @Amm0vamp1r3

    “Yes, I think it would. An area where both of them can work at 100%”

    How about fridaythe13th.wikia.com/wiki/Camp_Crystal_Lake night time?

  18. Amm0vamp1r3 April 1, 2015 at 1:00 pm -      #18

    @Rookie

    Camp Crystal lake works, Jason might kill them both but that’s a risk im willing to take (lol)

  19. Limbo Lowk April 1, 2015 at 1:35 pm -      #19

    Would Kains tk be able to hurt Percy?
    ===
    “Does anyone else just sit there, glaring at their past comments and spelling mistakes, or is it just me?”

    Its not just you.

  20. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 1:39 pm -      #20

    Does Percy have any resistance to soulrape?

  21. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 1:39 pm -      #21

    “Does anyone else just sit there, glaring at their past comments and spelling mistakes, or is it just me?”

    Especially after I’ve already edited…

    Would Kains tk be able to hurt Percy?

    How strong is it?

  22. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 1:43 pm -      #22

    Also since how strong Superman is was mentioned earlier….from the recent Batman Superman annual leading to the next multiverse crisis I give you a scene with no context of Superman getting shanked by a human
    1.bp.blogspot.com/-dcKCq4vMcvU/VRu4GOhBazI/AAAAAAAJhuE/CgqSf9yWHW8/s1600/p1_34%2Bcopy.jpg









    context of the scene: he was mortal for 24 hours again because he used Super Flare again.

  23. Amm0vamp1r3 April 1, 2015 at 1:43 pm -      #23

    How strong is it?

    It can be accurate to the point of pulling the blood out of someone

    images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110617011555/legacyofkain/images/3/31/Defiance22GameStop.jpg

    or have an AoE to shatter a large rock

  24. Rookie April 1, 2015 at 1:45 pm -      #24

    @Nsl98

    “How strong is it?”

    Can pick soldier in full armor and throw him at the spike. It happened in cutscene, so legit.

  25. Amm0vamp1r3 April 1, 2015 at 1:47 pm -      #25

  26. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 2:01 pm -      #26

    Do all first comments get moderated?

  27. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 2:06 pm -      #27

    So, Kain can TK blood? That’s a pretty useful ability….
    —-
    Has it ever worked in someone as durable as Percy? He’s pretty durable.

  28. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 2:11 pm -      #28

    Has it ever worked in someone as durable as Percy? He’s pretty durable…

    Just pointing this out- that’s a really big rock he breaks. Also, Kitten’s respect thread is linked up there for anyone interested, plenty of Kain feats and techniques.

    Also… he really doesn’t have to pull the blood “out” of Percy. If his TK is that precise, he can just remove all blood from his brain or something similar- the human body isn’t made to have large quantities of blood move around in ways it shouldn’t.
    Hearts fail
    Brains die
    Limbs go weak
    etc.

  29. Limbo Lowk April 1, 2015 at 2:21 pm -      #29

    If Kain has never done something like that then I doubt he would here. Does anyone in his world even understand the body to that degree?

  30. Amm0vamp1r3 April 1, 2015 at 2:27 pm -      #30

    He hasn’t shown that kind of control but still he pulls the blood from your body but still he rupturing veins and what not to get it through the body so if percys skin is tough and he can’t get the blood through he still has blood loose in his body, or internal bleeding

    until he heals the wounds that is

  31. Commander Cross April 1, 2015 at 2:36 pm -      #31

    I won’t lie, part of me was expecting Luke Castellan to go fight it out against Kain before Percy does, but this isn’t too shabby here’s hoping.

    One of the usual questions won’t be needed to ask by me this time.

    In the meantime, is Riptide at 100% Maximum Power and all that jazz?
    If it is, the Weakening may be in play against Kain if he gets hit by Riptide.

    Also the last I checked, doesn’t Percy have Casual Super-Human/Enhanced Combat Speeds to worry about, usually at the 14-16+ Strikes Per Second range if I recall and estimate the Strike amounts right?
    In Water, that’d wind up going up to 70-80+ Strikes Per Second as well.
    How ‘good’ is Kain’s Combat Speeds again by chance?
    If Kain busts in Time Powers, Percy’s experienced ‘Basic’ Time Powers being used against him before, wonder how Kain’s Time Powers stack up next to that of an admittedly-weakened Kronos’ own, to be sure.

    Let’s not forget about regards on Percy’s fights against either a Weakened Hyperion or the likes of Jason of New Rome either if anyone has to go there.

    It’s also to be noted speaking of some regards that Percy’s Powers developed more Rapidly than they ought to have been, as a Side-effect of having River Styx Enhancements for a time, and it also tampered with Percy’s Psychological Profile as well.

  32. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 3:48 pm -      #32

    If Kain has never done something like that then I doubt he would here.

    He specifically pulls the blood through a person and out the throat area; that’s moving the blood through the body. All of the blood moving to the throat area is cause for cardiac arrest- at the best, at the worst all of your limbs will start shutting down with no blood in them.

    Also the last I checked, doesn’t Percy have Casual Super-Human/Enhanced Combat Speeds to worry about, usually at the 14-16+ Strikes Per Second range if I recall and estimate the Strike amounts right?

    No? Piper saw blurs when Percy and Jason were fighting- meaning she could still follow the movements to a degree; just not precision.

    Does anyone in his world even understand the body to that degree?

    Does an immortal vampire that is over a millennium old, and has been killing humans for most of that time, know where blood goes in a human body…
    Yes, because he targets the neck; not the chest, not the arm, not the leg- the neck, where the blood flows at its finest.

    I’d value the Camp over Kamino; much better and easier to grasp. Not to mention neither combatant is very familiar with space-tech.

  33. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 3:54 pm -      #33

    “No? Piper saw blurs when Percy and Jason were fighting- meaning she could still follow the movements to a degree; just not precision.”

    Wasn’t it said that they had an entire mini duel in the time that Piper saw what appeared to be only one strike?
    Also, for what it’s worth, they were making the ground shake.

  34. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 4:12 pm -      #34

    Their blades blurred–strike and parry–and the pavement trembled. The first exchange took only a second, but Piper couldn’t believe the speed of their sword fighting.
    -Mark of Athena p. 131
    —-
    Yep. Their first exchange of blows happened in a second. How fast is that?

  35. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 4:16 pm -      #35

    Yep. Their first exchange of blows happened in a second. How fast is that?

    Depends what you consider “an exchange”.

    [Piper] rolled to the edge of the road and looked back, dazed and horrified, as [Percy and Jason] crossed swords, gold against bronze. Sparks flew. Their blades blurred-strike and parry-and the pavement trembled. The first exchange only lasted a second, but Piper couldn’t believe the speed of their sword fighting.

    The only thing we have to go off of for that is “strike and parry” which, as a Fencer, I would absolutely consider to be an exchange. An action for an action.
    I honestly doubt that’s what Riordan meant, but it’s all we can go off of.

    Also, for what it’s worth, they were making the ground shake.

    True, but that’s strength- not speed.

  36. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 4:25 pm -      #36

    Would Riptide be able to injure Kain due to him not being from the greek mythos?

  37. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 4:47 pm -      #37

    @Klondike
    It could injure, just not outright one shot.
    —-
    Usually, Riptide one shots or whittles away the Greek monsters from the hits.
    —-
    Seeing as Kain isn’t a Greek monster, but still is a monster, it should be able to effect him, just that it’ll take even more time to kill him.
    —-
    Which, seeing as he has hax regen, is gonna be a pain in the butt to deal with.

  38. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 4:49 pm -      #38

    Wait… Did a hit from Riptide break down the Bridge?
    Or was it Percys Water Manipulation that did it?

    If it was riptide, that’s probably enough energy to damage even Kain.

  39. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 5:00 pm -      #39

    ok. What about the soulreaver? Does Percy ever have his soul attacked? I could not remember if tartaurous had any soul draining.

    P.S. Do I have to restart the browser to see new comments?

  40. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 5:14 pm -      #40

    “P.S. Do I have to restart the browser to see new comments?”

    Refresh it, yea, unfortunately.
    I generally just repeatedly shift from one thread to another.

    Welcome to BankGambling btw!

  41. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 5:17 pm -      #41

    thnx! I actually lurked for quite a while before I decided to post on this thread!

    Anyway does Percy have any soulrape resistance?

  42. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 5:24 pm -      #42

    @Rag

    “Break it!” Micheal yelled. “Use your powers!”
    It was a desperate thought-no way it would work-but I stabbed Riptide into the bridge. The magic blade sank to its hilt in asphalt. Salt water shot from the crack like I’d hit a geyser. I pulled out my blade and the fissure grew. The bridge shook and began to crumble.

    -Last Olympian p. 192
    —–
    Bridge Percy broke:
    upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Above_Williamsburg_Bridge_crop.jpg
    —-

    Looks to be his sword started te breakage, but his powers finished it.

    @Klondike
    Welcome to FP

  43. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 5:34 pm -      #43

    Also where is this taking place? Kain can move over much more debilatating obstacles than Percy can.

    Thnx Ns198

  44. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 5:43 pm -      #44

    Camp Crystal Lake

    Also welcome

  45. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 5:47 pm -      #45

    Does Percy ever resist something like TK or would that fall under the “not Greek” rule?

    Also thnx!

  46. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 5:48 pm -      #46

    I could not remember if tartaurous had any soul draining.

    Tartarus saps the strength of heroes as they stay there, I can’t recall if it’s Soul-based though.

    Looks to be his sword started te breakage, but his powers finished it.

    Pretty clearly indicated to be the water powers; not the sword.

  47. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 5:56 pm -      #47

    (Tartarus saps the strength of heroes as they stay there, I can’t recall if it’s Soul-based though)

    Yea same here, I was not sure if that one feat of Nicos sister resisting the effects of the personalty wipe was due to her demigod powers or her father specifically being hades.

  48. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 5:57 pm -      #48

    @Friendly
    Was about to ask where it was stated….then I saw it.
    —–
    He can still shake the ground and slice stone in two, so there is that for strength. There was another good one in Book 4 of the first series, I’ll try to find it.

  49. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 6:01 pm -      #49

    The ground shaking was done as a side effect of a sword clash.
    Majority of the energy would have been absorbed by the swords and the characters bodies.
    So it’s alot more impressive than that.

    Those were all done out of water too right?
    Does he gain physical strength from water?

  50. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 6:13 pm -      #50

    Does he gain physical strength from water?

    Actually, I don’t think he gains strength- mostly just energy and a healing factor. (Would healing factor fall under energy?)

    He’s faster in water because he wills the currents to carry him, but it doesn’t boost his speed just by being in it (like a steroid) AFAIK.

  51. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 6:21 pm -      #51

    When Percy is dropped in the Fish tank where he could not control water he goes far slower and feels sluggish.

  52. Commander Cross April 1, 2015 at 7:09 pm -      #52

    @Klondike Bar at #51

    Because apparently either the Waters themselves have been Tampered with or instead of Waters, some kind of Torture Liquid was at use.

    Super-Human Combat Speeds, Reactions and Reflexes are still there, though part of the reasoning why Skill is an issue regarding Precision is there has more to do with Percy not sharpening his Blade-mastery for years sometime after The Titan War against the Black Throne was dealt with.
    Percy’s got Potential to fight it out against any but the most Powerful versions of The Knights of The Round Table 1-vs-1, but without a lot in the way of Martial Discipline, he basically has to resort to Brute Force, Wits and Supernatural Powers a lot of times.

    I really hope they hurry up and give news on when that F.F.A Group fight arrives, speaking of whom.

    For all I would know, this might be Jinxing but any ideas on when anything from C.H.B or The Legacy of Kain vs anything from Demon’s Souls, Dark Souls 1 + 2 or Bloodborne get brought up?
    I can go find the name of the Torture Liquid in question on the internet if asked, in any case there’s another thing to note as well, Kain fought Aquatic Type Enemies before If I recall correctly.

  53. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 7:15 pm -      #53

    ok. Does Percy need to gesture to control big waves of water or is it Hydrokinesis?

  54. Commander Cross April 1, 2015 at 7:28 pm -      #54

    @Klondike Bar at #53

    So long as my Recollections are working, it’s Hydrokinetic the last time I checked, Water is an Extension of his Existence when he’s close by.
    He’s gonna need that for a fight like this, in all likelihood.

    Also, we know Tartarus also attacks the Sanity of anyone residing within ‘him’/it, so Psychological Damage is also possible as well.

  55. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 7:35 pm -      #55

    Does Percy need to gesture to control big waves of water or is it Hydrokinesis?

    A little of both, he can call water with his mind but the deliberate stuff requires movement. As simple as waving his hands or stabbing with his sword, but movement nonetheless.

    If Percy has no defense against Mind Rape, Soul Rape, or having internal blood loss kill him- he really won’t be winning this one. Even submerging Kain (Percy’s best bet) in water won’t kill him immediately.

  56. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 7:48 pm -      #56

    And Kain could just turn to mist or use Reaver telaport.

    Also how resistant to mind control is Percy? Cause doesn’t Kain’s status as scion of Balance make him part god?

  57. Limbo Lowk April 1, 2015 at 10:39 pm -      #57

    “He specifically pulls the blood through a person and out the throat area.”

    Huh, I remember pulling it through people and a comic that showed likewise.

    “Does an immortal vampire that is over a millennium old, and has been killing humans for most of that time, know where blood goes in a human body…
    Yes, because he targets the neck; not the chest, not the arm, not the leg- the neck, where the blood flows at its finest.”

    Killing doesn’t equate to someone learning the in and outs of a creature. Biting the neck cliche. All that really tells us is he figured out theres a lot of blood in the neck.
    ===
    “And Kain could just turn to mist or use Reaver telaport.”

    Wouldn’t mist work in Percy’s favor?

  58. Jake_Uzumaki April 2, 2015 at 2:02 am -      #58

    So Percy got backhanded by a 30 foot Giant and was only dazed.
    “Porphyrion backhanded Percy like a pesky fly. The son of Poseidon flew into a column with a sickening crunch…Percy tried to stand, but he was obviously dazed.”
    pg.405 Blood of Olympus

    And was holding his own against another Giant despite having been smacked around

    ” Percy was back on his feet, Riptide once again in his hands. He still looked dazed. His nose was bleeding. But he seemed to be holding his own against the old giant Thoon, who had somehow reattached his hand and found his meat cleaver. ”
    pgs. 408-409 Blood of Olympus

    And this book is post trip to Tartarus and Percy wasn’t necessarily back to his old self yet. Much better than he felt in Tartarus yes but still feeling the effects of it….that and probably feeling the effects of a 30 foot tall giant bred to kill gods pimp slapping him into a column.

  59. Jake_Uzumaki April 2, 2015 at 2:05 am -      #59

    was strong enough to redirect the blow from the first giant’s spear into the ground….that’s pretty impressive strength right?

    “As the giant king ran toward Piper, Percy grabbed the tip of Porphyrion’s spear and forced it down into the ground.”
    pg. 404 Blood of Olympus

    Cutting through a metal automaton with a single slash and no trouble

    ” As the Nikette raised her had to catch it, Percy emerged from the trench behind her and slashed with Riptide, cutting the Nikette in half at the waist. ”
    pg. 120 Blood of Olympus

  60. Jake_Uzumaki April 2, 2015 at 2:45 am -      #60

    Interesting feat from Son of Sobek, Percy is described as leaping like a ninja

    “A twenty foot wall of water slammed into me and pushed me back into the river. I came up spluttering, a horrible taste like fish food in my mouth. I blinked the gunk out of my eyes just in time to see Camper Boy leaping toward me ninja-style, his sword raised.
    I lifted my khopesh to deflect the blow. I just managed to keep my head from being cleaved in half, but the Camper Boy was strong and quick. As I reeled backward, he struck again and again. Each time I was able to parry; but I could tell I was outmatched. His blade was light and quicker, and-yes, I’ll admit it-he was a better swordsman. ”
    pgs 111-122 Son of Sobek

  61. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 7:45 am -      #61

    Has Percy ever fought a monster who could regenerate and won?

    (Wouldn’t mist work in Percy’s favor?)

    I do not know. Whenever he has turned to mist he has shown the ability to move around. I guess if it was water vapor it would probably be a terrible idea but percy has shown an inabilaty to control enchanted water. I have no clue how it would work.

  62. Jake_Uzumaki April 2, 2015 at 9:59 am -      #62

    Actually yes, a Giant who was designed specifically to fight and kill Poseidon and had much higher regeneration than normal monsters. Percy had to crush its skull to kill it since stab wounds healed after a few seconds

  63. Nsl98 April 2, 2015 at 11:22 am -      #63

    @Jake
    Percy has also been manipulating plumbing since book 1. And in Son of Neptune, he causes hydro cannons to explode. And he can cause water hose pipelines to explode.

  64. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 12:54 pm -      #64

    Ok. Kain I think will get the stuffing beat out of him if he is not careful. However I still do not know how Kains mist form will interact with percy’s water control. Would the reaver be able to mind control percy or would it not know what to do with him?

  65. Friendlysociopath April 2, 2015 at 1:04 pm -      #65

    This kind of narrows down to whether Percy can resist Mind Rape, Soul Rape, or having his blood shoved around his body or hauled out of it.

    Because he doesn’t possess the tools to take Kain down immediately; neither the speed, hax, or power.

    Vampiric regen is incredible, able to close dire wounds in seconds. Add that to how hard it is to hurt them in the first place and it’s really hard to keep them down.
    Kain is the best of the vampires; his regen and powers are superior to all others. Kain even has the Soul Reaper, a weapon that supposedly boosts this already near instant process. When Raziel was using it (in other words, when it was in its complete form, which Kain has)- he couldn’t be permanently damaged at all. The wounds would close up as soon as he received them.

    Now, water burns vampires- but it isn’t instant death. Since it isn’t instant death, Kain is going to retaliate- if he doesn’t strike first anyways. Not to mention he can just teleport out of the water.

  66. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 1:17 pm -      #66

    Something I just realized is that if he manages to get any of percy’s blood he will gain water manipulation and such.

  67. Kitten Lord April 2, 2015 at 1:54 pm -      #67

    A LoK vamp with water manipulation? Kind of ironic.

    It takes a ridiculously long time to “kil” a decent vampire with water, and by water I mean you would have to drown Kain completly and have him lay dead in it for this entire time before he teleports out, so I would say killing Kain with water is impossible. But it may be Percies only chance if manipulating water is his only power.

    What are Percies “magical” powers? His sword is going to be more or less useless due to teleport, hax regen and a ton of other things that would make it a bitch to get a hit on Kain.

    Also dont forget, Kain can manip time, he can freeze a single person in time OR slow time down in an AoE around him.

    So percy is going to be trying to hit a guy whos teleporting, slowing him down/freezing him if he gets close, TKing him with enough force to shatter triple digit tons of rock with the precision to target fluids, specifically blood. I bet theres more people who would die from their blood flowing chaotically through their body with that much force than there would survive it.

  68. Rookie April 2, 2015 at 1:58 pm -      #68

    @Kitten Lord

    “A LoK vamp with water manipulation? Kind of ironic.”

    Rahab was able to send water at the enemies.

  69. Amm0vamp1r3 April 2, 2015 at 2:02 pm -      #69

    have him lay dead in it for this entire time before he teleports out, so I would say killing Kain with water is impossible

    Has Kain or any vampire shown the ability to teleport when submerged in water? I ask because well even though his wings were broken shouldn’t Raziel have been able to atleast swim out of the water?

    I don’t recall any vampire escaping the grasp of water, I think Kains best bet would be to avoid the water all together

  70. Rookie April 2, 2015 at 2:05 pm -      #70

    @Amm0vamp1r3

    “I don’t recall any vampire escaping the grasp of water”

  71. Friendlysociopath April 2, 2015 at 2:08 pm -      #71

    Rahab was able to send water at the enemies.

    I thought that was just them sort of spitting water at you. Which was their entire shtick- being immune to water at the cost of sunlight being devastating.
    I thought it was cute at the time.

    What are Percies “magical” powers?

    Large scale hydrokinesis, some ice and wind manipulation. Also regens faster when in contact with water.

  72. Amm0vamp1r3 April 2, 2015 at 2:08 pm -      #72

    @Rookie

    Him and his kind, evolved to be able to take water. Don’t really know how they did it besides a little quote that says they did it over time. I can probably find it somewhere

    But as for a regular vampire that isn’t a rehabim, I don’t think they would escape water once submerged

  73. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 2:11 pm -      #73

    Kitten lord

    As far as I can tell so far from what has already been discussed Percy can shatter stone with his sword and in have an “exchange” in under a second. Percy has also shown a heavy resistance to all non-greek magic so I am not sure quite how it works or if it is a no limits fallacy. But so far Kain seems to be doing better aside from the water powers.

  74. Kitten Lord April 2, 2015 at 2:33 pm -      #74

    @Ammo

    “Has Kain or any vampire shown the ability to teleport when submerged in water? I ask because well even though his wings were broken shouldn’t Raziel have been able to atleast swim out of the water?”

    I dont think so although I do not see why water would nullify his magic, it does not afterall nullify vampiric regen. And Raziel only learned to swim after becoming the wraith, we do not even know if vampires could ever swim in general, let alone while being burned by acid.

    Magic on the other hand barely takes any real effort. More of a whim.

    @Friendly

    “Large scale hydrokinesis, some ice and wind manipulation. Also regens faster when in contact with water.”

    By ice and wind manip are you saying he can try and freeze Kain and/or strike him with a hurricane or does he need ice itself?

    Problem I see for percy is that Kains powers are just so easy for him to do, TK itself is just a gesture with his hand and most magic seems to be similiar. Once Kain has distance after maybe one teleport I think its going to be hard for percy to survive. Also being in water, surely Kain would just fry percies ass with a lightning storm or something?

  75. Amm0vamp1r3 April 2, 2015 at 2:41 pm -      #75

    I dont think so although I do not see why water would nullify his magic, it does not afterall nullify vampiric regen. And Raziel only learned to swim after becoming the wraith, we do not even know if vampires could ever swim in general, let alone while being burned by acid.

    Magic on the other hand barely takes any real effort. More of a whim.

    That’s true, water has shown to stop magic but they haven’t been shown to use magic when submerged so its really up in the air.

    Also being in water, surely Kain would just fry percies ass with a lightning storm or something?

    I doubt it, I don’t believe water “touches” him when submerged rather than it keeping kind of an “armor” around him.

  76. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 2:43 pm -      #76

    Jason shot a lightning bolt underwater and Percy was fine. Not sure if it was because Jason was controlling it though.

  77. Nsl98 April 2, 2015 at 2:49 pm -      #77

    Percy has tanked lightning on multiple occasions.

  78. Jake_Uzumaki April 2, 2015 at 2:52 pm -      #78

    Percy is able to hold people in water.
    “Hazel frowned. “We can’t let them drown, can we?”
    “They won’t,” Percy promised. “I’ve got the water circulating around their feet. As soon as we’re out of range, I’ll spit them ashore.”
    pg. 239 Mark of Athena.

    And he doesn’t get tired from generating water from nowhere anymore as shown when he did this in the arid acropolis
    “Percy shouted. At the other end of the Acropolis, a hundred yards away, a geyser of water shot into the air. ”
    pg. 401 Blood of Olympus
    Especially impressive since this is post Tartarus trip and earlier in the book it was said he was getting winded more easily due to the acidic air of the pit.

  79. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 3:19 pm -      #79

    Now that I think about it none of the boy demigods seem to resist mind control. Percy gets possessed multiple times iirc and at least once when fleeing the Roman demigods.

  80. Friendlysociopath April 2, 2015 at 3:32 pm -      #80

    By ice and wind manip are you saying he can try and freeze Kain and/or strike him with a hurricane or does he need ice itself?

    He’s created winds strong enough to throw cars around- though it might also be the strength of the water current. That aside, his winds that he conjures are strong enough to knock normal demigods around.

    He needs ice around- come to think of it, he probably just did his normal hurricane thing but the water froze. He was on top of a glacier at the time AFAIK.

  81. Kitten Lord April 2, 2015 at 3:56 pm -      #81

    @Klondlike Bar

    If this is the case then he is likely going to be in trouble against Kain who can not only mind control magically, mentally but also spiritually. The last one not necesserily being mind rape but spiritual possession.

  82. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 4:44 pm -      #82

    Wow looks like percy can not take the hax.

  83. Friendlysociopath April 2, 2015 at 4:55 pm -      #83

    Wow looks like percy can not take the hax.

    To be fair, that’s about how every Kain match goes.

    Question order:
    1) Can they murder him immediately?
    If yes, Kain dies, if no, proceed.
    2) Can they deal with Kain hax?
    If no, they die, if yes, go back to step 1.

  84. Mea quidem sententia April 2, 2015 at 5:08 pm -      #84

    Every Kain match is like this because his abilities are exaggerated.

  85. Nsl98 April 2, 2015 at 5:09 pm -      #85

    @Mea
    Please continue….
    —-
    Seriously, I’d like to hear more. I only know what’s been brought up here.

  86. Kitten Lord April 2, 2015 at 5:38 pm -      #86

    He probably means the calcs side of things but the hax is as Friendly mentioned it is about right. If you cant deal with hax or bring up a feat for each type of hax then you die.

    As for the calcs, Mea has done and re-done them over and over again and he and I have argued them to death to the point where he agrees only to disagree in the next thread. Its his right to change his mind but its generally just him saying this, that its exaggerated.

    The initial calcs have been done to death by multiple people and its about as close as you can get to the reality of the matter and their relatively simple.

  87. Commander Cross April 2, 2015 at 5:41 pm -      #87

    Something we never asked before, what are the mechanics behind LoK Spiritual Possession again?

    Are they rooted in ‘The Stronger the Target, the Harder it is to Possess Them?’ or do they have a Different sort of Mechanic to worry about?
    Also wouldn’t Kain’s Soul be in Danger if he gets hit by Riptide hard enough?

    Also, wouldn’t some Passive Resistances against some forms of Magic combined with being on Water or using Water Grenades also be very useful for Percy against Kain as well?

  88. Kitten Lord April 2, 2015 at 5:49 pm -      #88

    You would have to question whether the target just being “stronger” generally would be enough to no sell you messing with their soul. In legacy of kain I am not sure its relevant because everything that gets attacked by a soul devouring attack dies save for maybe Kain himself. This could be due to him being immortal/scion of balance or a resistance to magic effects or his soul being destroyed/devoured.

    This should also cover Kains soul resistance as he has been hit by both the wraith blade and the complete Soul reaver before without losing his soul. He also lost his heart, which anchored his soul to the body, so Kains soul endures even if its anchor is removed.

    As for passive resistance against magic, potentially but it depends on what those resistances entail I suppose. How they work and what they work/have worked against. One may also argue Kain using the reaver on percy may not be magic because the effect of the soul rape from the soul reaver itself is a “natural” devour of the soul, no more magical than kains devouring of blood.

    Problem is, in LoK most uses of the soul rip spells and indeed, most of Kains hax your either dead or you no sell it, considering few things if any no sell them in the game its hard to say how much resistance you would need to no sell the attack.

    What are water grenades? Vampires are only harmed by “running” water bodies. Touching water briefly may burn but is, obviously thanks to regen useless in the long run.

  89. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 5:56 pm -      #89

    To be honest I am surprised that Kain has not had any spite threads. I think that really most of Percy’s feats are physical and thus he is really not going to be able to resist. I mean even taurtaurous(?) only has physical and psychological effects.

  90. Commander Cross April 2, 2015 at 6:08 pm -      #90

    @Klondike Bar at #89

    I seem to remember the main reasoning behind me wondering why Luke Castellan vs Kain didn’t happen first, is because the former uses a Sword that In Principle does a lot of the exact same kind of things Kain’s weapons tend to do, and Percy did get hit a few times by Castellan’s Sword Backbiter a few times over.
    (It was Especially noted in The Battle of The Labyrinth and The Last Olympian if I recall correctly, might have been there during The Sea of Monsters as well, possibly.)

    Stygian Iron Weapons do the exact same kind of thing as well, as far as Soul Damaging and the likes are concerned.

    If I also recall right, Tartarus can Devour the Souls and other Traces of Enemy forces who’d oppose ‘him’/it in ‘his’/its Presence, the main reasoning Why Tartarus didn’t do so right away on Percy or his other Enemies in his Domain was because he wanted to craft a Humanoid Body.
    (During the events of The House of Hades as well.)

    As for the Water Grenades, they’re Grenades designed by use of the Archimedes Sphere, which is used by Leo Valdez as of later on from The Mark of Athena onward, and the Grenades could double as either to Distract Kain, Amp up Percy’s Stats and help him psychologically and Potentially Spiritually, or do both at the same time if Kain’s close enough.

    (The Water Grenades are Noted in either The Mark of Athena, The House of Hades or The Blood of Olympus, which particular novel were they noted exactly eludes me at the moment but it was one of the 3 that said something about it.
    I’m talking when they first showed up in The Heroes of Olympus, not in terms of latest uses yet.)

  91. Klondike Bar April 2, 2015 at 6:12 pm -      #91

    Does percy ever use or create them himself? Also I thought that taurtarous basically had a soul steal attack thing he shot from his face. I have to be somewhere soon so this is probably gonna be my last comment for today.

  92. Kitten Lord April 2, 2015 at 6:17 pm -      #92

    Does Luke have a sword that has a soul devouring entity within it as well then?

    Kains sword when it hits you does a long list of things, at least if were talking the full emblem version of the sword. You have the following effects;

    Soul devouring from Raziel, the only being ever to survive its touch is Kain, and Kain is just, well….Kain, he is just generally untouchable by most things in the series and just survives. it is in the words of Amy Hennig (the story writer) “his nature as the scion of balance allows him to survive”.

    Blood loss The sword itself, the reaver is a vampiric weapon. It drinks the blood of Kains enemies. So if percy has not lost enough blood and assuming he can survive a strike from Kains blade (not likely) hes losing evne more blood.

    Dimension emblem, kind of useless unless Percy can summon allies, it will “warp” the strike to hit everyone within the area (about 5-10 meters range).

    Lightning emblem Lets loose streams of chain lightning.

    Time emblem slows targets struck in time.

    conflict/flame emblem fire damage.

    There are other reaver effects iirc. But it has a number of elemental/reality warping powers. not ot mention being a paradox weapon.

    It can also hit intangible beings, including cutting “shadow” as well, so it may be sharp enough to strike on the atomic level or however small particles of light or the lack thereof (shadow?) are.

  93. Kitten Lord April 2, 2015 at 6:29 pm -      #93

    Sorry for my double post but it does a few more things;

    Super regen, take a being whos body falls apart slowly such as Raziel over time, the opposite of regen and give him the reaver. What happens? he gets such fast regen he is made invinciible to being wounded. Now give it to Kain, lord and top of the evolutionary ladder of a spiecies of vampires who already have, even in their lowliest forms super fast regen that even the powerful raziel cannot overpower….

    Yes, be afraid…

    Multi dimentional slicing

    The sword cuts on multiple dimentions, as shown when it can slice the multi-dimentional elder god. I dont know if percy can travel through dimensions or what not or has alternate realms but if he does, hes not out of kains reach.

    Depowers barriers

    An often overlooked power, the reaver dispels magical barriers on strike so if Percy has forcefields or what not to protect him, this can dispel them. This may even dispel his magical resistances?

    wheel of fate

    If your soul is devoured by raziel your essence no longer exists as it does now. You are re-spun in the “wheel” and are reborn as something else at some other time. percy would both spiritually and physically cease to exist. not least of all because the reaver lets loose enough magic power on contact to blow things into piecies.

  94. Nsl98 April 3, 2015 at 1:17 am -      #94

    Percy resists Luke’s soul cutting scythe:

    It shouldn’t have been a serious cut, but the entire side of my body exploded with pain. I remember what a sea demon had once said about Kronos’ scythe: Careful, fool. One touch, and the blade will sever your soul from your body. Now I understood what he meant. I wasn’t just losing blood. I could feel my strength, my will, my identity drifting away.
    -Last Olympian p. 23
    —–
    Just after this, Percy escapes into the ocean and heals his injuries.
    —–
    Also:
    The water revitalized me, breaking the time spell, and I lunged forward.
    -Last Olympian p. 22
    —-
    Even if we don’t feel like pushing the whole “foreign magic doesn’t effect Percy”, water still helps him break some spells.
    —-
    And:
    Suddenly I felt the power of the ocean all around me, hundreds of gallons of salt water, thousands of fish trying to get my attention. I wasn’t at camp. This was an illusion. Phobos was showing me my deepest fear.
    -Demigod Files p. 23
    —-
    ^Here he breaks out of the Fear Gods’ illusion just by conscentrating on the water and the inhabitants thereof.

  95. Kitten Lord April 3, 2015 at 4:25 am -      #95

    @Ns

    That first quote may be useful but its hard to discern whether he resisted it or whether it does not really devour souls with just a touch, as in, instantly eat them up like the reaver does. Perhaps his soul, was, based on the end of that quote being drained and him leaping into the water healed/stopped the effect?

    So soul powers can be effective still, he not entirely immune at least.

    “The water revitalized me, breaking the time spell, and I lunged forward.
    -Last Olympian p. 22″

    So what was happening here, it says it broke a time spell. Was the spell specifcally placed on him? for example Kains time slows come in a AoE that powers out from him and is powered by the reaver.

    What could Percy do to counter the aformentioned TK tearing his blood apart or moving it in his body? That and of course, Kain just teleporting behind him and raining the sword on the man, or blitz teleporting with the dimention reaver. Half a dozen teleports in a second or so, from a guy emitting time distorting magic and whos hard as any substance on earth would surely be a problem to stop.

  96. Nsl98 April 3, 2015 at 9:00 am -      #96

    @Kitten
    So what was happening here, it says it broke a time spell. Was the spell specifcally placed on him? for example Kains time slows come in a AoE that powers out from him and is powered by the reaver.
    —-
    Kronos/Luke just slowed down Percy, making him feel like syrup or something.

    Edit: found the quote:
    —-
    Time slowed down. I mean literally slowed down, because Kronos had that power. I felt like I was movin through syrup. My arms were so heavy, I could barely raise my sword. Kronos smiled, swirling his scythe at normal speed and waiting for me to creep towards my death.
    -Last Olympian p. 21
    —–

  97. Klondike Bar April 3, 2015 at 9:56 am -      #97

    NsI98 was kronos literaly just standing there or was he walking towards Percy?

    imo Kronos sounds way more threatening than any of the giants did.

  98. Nsl98 April 3, 2015 at 10:13 am -      #98

    Kronos activated the time slow an was just going to let Percy run towards him slowly. That’s when Percy used water to break it.

  99. Klondike Bar April 3, 2015 at 10:29 am -      #99

    Ok. Does the water also get slowed or is it going at normal speed?

  100. Klondike Bar April 3, 2015 at 10:41 am -      #100

    The reason I ask this was because I wanted to know if Kain would have enough time after the start of the time slow to skewer Percy.

    Also how does one suggest a match?

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