Camp Half Blood VS Hogwarts

Camp Half Blood Vs Hogwarts

Suggested by JMT

Camp Half Blood (The Percy Jackson universe) wage war against Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry (Harry Potter).

Camp Half Blood’s composite Greek demigod forces, disregarding allies and gods, but including deceased or traitorous demigods, have reason to believe that one of their own is in Hogwarts, and has laid siege to it, using divine magic to block apparition off the grounds and floo travel. Hogwarts is in Sixth Year, possessing a full-power Dumbledore.

Can the Camp take the castle, how long does it take, and what losses are there on each side?

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742 Comments on "Camp Half Blood VS Hogwarts"

  1. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 12:32 pm -      #501

    “The Disilusionment charm can make people invisible”

    You know I completely forgot something about Potterverse invisibility stuff that I was reminded of by a match that came across the Random Match thing on the side.
    Moody’s magic eye was able to see through Harry’s invisibility cloak. Isn’t the cloak basically a disillusionment charm to the max? Did we ever see Moody’s eye interact with any other invisible people?
    Because that could call the effectiveness of the invisible attack strategy into question.

  2. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 12:52 pm -      #502

    Moody’s magic eye was able to see through Harry’s invisibility cloak. Isn’t the cloak basically a disillusionment charm to the max?

    I believe Moody could just see through things- as in X-Ray vision- as he also looks through doors, desks, people, and walls. So while the person is invisible to the eye, if you can see “through” the invisibility cloak (literally as opposed to metaphorically) you can see the person inside.

    Insert comment about Moody’s eye never being explained, bada bing bada boom; shake a rock and kill the urf manatee.

    Ninja supreme

  3. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 12:53 pm -      #503

    Harry’s cloak is some special weird cloak, That was made like a thousand years ago or somthing, There is no proof that harry’s cloak works via disillusionment charm

    Also, Mooodys eye can see though all kinds of stuff, desk, his own head, peoples cloths….

  4. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 1:06 pm -      #504

    That’s why I asked if anyone remembered if he had encountered any other invisible characters in the books. I honestly can’t remember and I’m not by my books right now.
    Though wouldn’t looking through the cloak require bypassing the enchantment somehow?

  5. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 1:16 pm -      #505

    “There is no proof that harry’s cloak works via disillusionment charm”

    I’m pretty sure it was called BETTER than any disillusionment charm.

  6. pimpmage April 1, 2015 at 1:17 pm -      #506

    The deathly hollows are not unbeatable. They may be the best the universe has to offer, but stuff can best them. Like how dumbledore didn’t outright pwn big V while he was the true owner of the hollow wand.

  7. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 1:28 pm -      #507

    All i was saying is that we dont know how it works, Some invisibility cloaks are made out of hair that is invisible and stuff.

  8. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 1:30 pm -      #508

    Well Dumbledore did reveal the Hollows were just made by the Perrevels themselves who happened to be very capable wizards.

    And the Cloak of Invisibility is supposed to be the greatest form of invisibility in universe, if its fallible then the lesser forms most likely are as well to a greater extent.
    I don’t know if CHB can definitely take advantage of this or not though. I’m not caught up on the new books and its been a while since I read the older ones.

  9. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 1:54 pm -      #509

    I’ll just post the other instance of Carter’s magic failing to work on Percy:
    —-
    As soon as I spoke the word, the symbol blazed in the air between us. A giant fist the size of a dishwasher shimmered into existence and slammed [Percy] into the next county.

    I mean, I literally punched him out of his shoes. He rocketed from the river with a loud suck-plop! And the last thing I saw was his bare feet achieving escape velocity as he flew backwards and disappeared from sight.
    …..
    “Man, I’m sorry!” I yelled, hoping he could hear me. “Are you-”
    The wave came out of nowhere.
    -Son of Sobek p. 7

  10. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 1:58 pm -      #510

    Why is my comment awaiting moderation? Is it because I said plop?

  11. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 2:01 pm -      #511

    Well Dumbledore did reveal the Hollows were just made by the Perrevels themselves who happened to be very capable wizards.

    He revealed that’s what he ‘thought’. He’s certainly not infallible- though I do see your point.
    Considering the power of love is entirely canon in that universe, Death being an actual sentient being wouldn’t be that off.

    Speaking of which… does anyone know how the power of love works in HP verse? As far as I know, all you have to do is die for something you love and you impart magical protection onto them.

    I don’t know if CHB can definitely take advantage of this or not though. I’m not caught up on the new books and its been a while since I read the older ones.

    I say with some certainty Percy has no luck detecting Annabeth when she is invisible- though trying to think through 10+ books at once is an exercise in frustration.

  12. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 2:03 pm -      #512

    Harry’s cloak also has some kind of magic resistance of its own.

  13. Commander Cross April 1, 2015 at 2:16 pm -      #513

    @Everyone else

    If they can check up on Post #411, I brought up a list of some Major Players to aid in the Front-lines for Side A, anyone mind checking it out, or would they go check the Abrahamic Texts and see where the quote on Jesus Christ asking the question ‘What if The Holy Spirit is Female?’ can be cited and linked?

    Another thing to note is that when Side A has at least some of their segments get Permitted by The Divine to use and STUDY Supernatural Powers, most of the corners in Side A I’d recall weren’t so consented the last time I checked.

    Surat Al-Baqarah or ‘The Sacred Cow’ brings up a particular quote noted in the Abrahamic Quotes, from The Qu’ran in fact.

    Did it ever say whether or not Side B was Permitted by The Divine to Study Magic in general, or were regards like that just plain-old forgotten about in the Modern-day Potter-world and it’s likely another Edge the Medieval Times would have over them?

    I’m asking this sort of question, because it may color the manner of the fighting in more subtle ways than first glances suggest.

    Let’s not forget that it is said that Simon the (Un-Permitted) Sorcerer likely wasn’t permitted by The Divine to Study Magic, but a lot of the Hecate/Hekate Cabin on the other hand have more than just Divine Permission on their side.

    The Kane Siblings of The House of Life also have Divine-Type Consent to Study Magic granted as well.

  14. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 3:35 pm -      #514

    @Friendly
    “Speaking of which… does anyone know how the power of love works in HP verse? As far as I know, all you have to do is die for something you love and you impart magical protection onto them.”

    It’s a charm, with a very specific requirement.
    It’s part of the reason i argued so long that not all spells in HP are as simple as “point wand & say word”

    harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Bond_of_blood_charm

    1. A family member needs to die for you.
    2. Another family member needs to take you in as their own.
    3. You must consider that family members house your home for all intents and purposes. Meaning you must visit at least once a year.

    I think JK Rowling just made this shit as she went along.

  15. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 3:46 pm -      #515

    This brings me to an interesting question…

    Why was Voldemort the only one to ever make a Horxrus?
    I mean… If a teenage student was able to figure out its exact details, surely that means most if not all experienced adults know of it.

    And it’s not like Murder is such a horrible unspeakable act that never occurs in the wizarding world.

    So why doesn’t every wanna be evil Wizard just create some?
    I mean… It’s practically immortality… And it’s what made Voldemort such a pain in the ass to deal with for 15 years?

    The only explanation would be that certain spells can’t be cast unless you have a certain degree of “power”.
    But that’s never been the case in HP… Right?
    As long as you know the spell, and practice it a bit, you can eventually cast it?

    But if spells actually are limited by power, then that’s pretty bad news for Hogwarts in this match.
    It would mean that every character would be limited to what he/she has proven themselves, and nothing more.

  16. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 3:55 pm -      #516

    It’s a charm, with a very specific requirement.

    Wrong magic Rag
    harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrificial_protection
    harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Love

    But if spells actually are limited by power, then that’s pretty bad news for Hogwarts in this match.

    They are, which is why I’ve only ever been considering the teaching staff, aurors, and higher students for fighting.

    Although considering 2nd years know:
    Paralyzing
    Time stops
    Ebola (not the real name, just a non-projectile spell that makes the user sick and eventually collapse)
    and magic to imprison opponents in a magic bubble
    Education in Hogwarts appears to be all over the place.

    Why was Voldemort the only one to ever make a Horxrus?

    As I understand it, you literally have to kill yourself to create them. I imagine this goes too far against the selfish wishes of most Dark Wizards.
    Also, Slughorn is supposedly incredibly smart and famous- it’s not like he’s a regular guy who knew that information.

  17. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 3:59 pm -      #517

    “Wrong magic Rag
    harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrificial_protection”

    Dafuq is the difference? :S

    Bond of Blood: The bond of blood (incantation unknown) is an extremely powerful and ancient charm, which is formed when a person sacrifices himself or herself for a family member, out of deep and pure love.

    Sacrificial Protection: Sacrificial protection is an ancient, powerful, and long-lasting counter-charm[2] that is endowed when one person (who we will call “the victim” for purposes of this article) ultimately sacrifices his or her own life willingly and out of deep and pure love to strongly save the life of one

    Edit – Ah, i guess the first is to protect them from everyone while in the home.
    Whereas the second just protects you from the person that committed the murder?
    Oh well, that’s just more evidence that there’s more spells that have complicated rituals behind them.

  18. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 4:04 pm -      #518

    “As I understand it, you literally have to kill yourself to create them. I imagine this goes too far against the selfish wishes of most Dark Wizards.”

    Wait really…?
    Thought you just needed to kill someone else, to split your soul.

    “Also, Slughorn is supposedly incredibly smart and famous- it’s not like he’s a regular guy who knew that information.”

    Information that valuable? In the hands of a teacher?
    It’s hard to believe others wouldn’t know about the information causing it to spread like Wildfire.
    Secrets like that aren’t easy to hide, and it’s really not like Slughorn was even trying to hide it.
    He was avoiding telling it to a student.. Since.. Well… Students are just kids.
    But he wasn’t “hiding” the spell specifically.

    Oh, and it was mentioned in a fucking book in a school library.

  19. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 4:06 pm -      #519

    Oh well, that’s just more evidence that there’s more spells that have complicated rituals behind them.

    Sacrificial protection requires no ritual at all- all you have to do is choose to die for others.
    A majority of the magic is literally nothing more than waving a wand and saying magic words- for some of the teachers the words aren’t even necessary.

    Rituals are an oddity, something for only the most powerful of magics- namely the giant NLF magics. Stuff like AoE timestops, giant fire whirlwinds, and spells to turn stuff to stone is just
    *Wave wand*
    “spell name (not required in all cases)”
    *effect*

    Oh, and it was mentioned in a fucking book in a school library.

    The concept was in a book, not the ways to do it. Same with the philosopher stone and… really any artifact from Potterverse really.

    Information that valuable? In the hands of a teacher?

    Dumbledore mentioned that Voldemort was purposefully looking for Slughorn so he could recruit/force him to work for the Dark Side. Slughorn is actually as old and nearly as powerful as Dumbledore, but not nearly as… well, wise and courageous.

  20. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 4:26 pm -      #520

    Voldemort wasn’t the first to use a Horcrux, that would be the guy who breed the first Basilisk…and is also possibly a distant ancestor of Voldy considering he was also a parseltongue…plus dickery seeming to run in that family.

    And Friendly is right on Sacrificial protection, Harry used it in Book 7, he even rubs it in Voldemorts face. Harry’s particular use actually made Voldemort less effective against the other Hogwarts students than he should have been.

    There is a ritual which J.K. is apparently going to explain in the next encyclopedia book for the series…..apparently the description of how to make one caused the editor to nearly vomit from how gruesome it was….which is believable since it involves killing someone to shatter your own soul then ripping one of those fragments out and somehow placing it in an object or creature or person.

  21. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 4:29 pm -      #521

    @Friendly
    “Sacrificial protection requires no ritual at all- all you have to do is choose to die for others.”

    ANY prerequisite for a spell aside from pointing a wand & saying a word is basically a ritual, or well.. That’s what i meant by “ritual” anyways.

    “Rituals are an oddity, ”

    Nonetheless, if there’s a spell which has never been cast on screen, there’s always the chance it requires a little more.
    Specially one which even the Harry Potter Wiki considers “unknown”

    “The concept was in a book, not the ways to do it. Same with the philosopher stone and… really any artifact from Potterverse really.”

    Eh, a spell mentioned in a school book.
    I find it too unbelievable to think no one but a teacher AT that school knew of its specifics.
    Even for Harry Potter, that’s some major plot convenience.

  22. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 4:29 pm -      #522

    Or possibly Pottermore since the encyclopedia was cancelled, forgot about that.

  23. Aelfinn April 1, 2015 at 4:35 pm -      #523

    Had a few exams, this thing exploded. I probably won’t directly quote a few thing, but I’ll respond to what I remember.
    =
    @Ragnorke’s response to me pointing out Percy slowing down allows people to attack him.

    An invisible professor who sees Percy stop and look for where to go next grants him ample opportunity to mess him up in any number of ways.

    Also, you’re saying “take” the castle doesn’t mean “possess” it? Really?
    =
    @Jake
    I’m glad you admitted it’s stupid, but come on, “It’s not from my mythology, therefore it can’t hurt me” just because there’s a quote where someone couldn’t see magic that wasn’t there’s?

    It could very easily be that “my mythology’s magic doesn’t work outside of my mythology”.
    =
    @Commander Cross
    I’m here, finally. Liquid Luck does remind me of being ta’averen, you are right. The difference is that being ta’averen doesn’t automatically make you succeed, it just means reality pushes you towards a certain goal while also making very, very unlikely things happen around you. These things could be negative or beneficiary.

    It’d be funny as Hell to see the effects of Liquid Luck and Ta’averen-ness working against each other, though.
    =
    EDIT
    You don’t kill yourself to make a Horcrux, you have to kill someone else. I know…very dumb why everyone doesn’t do it. Maybe it’s like super-advanced, above Patronus-level stuff?

  24. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 4:35 pm -      #524

    Think about a science book in your school.
    Which mentions a guaranteed method at immortality. Heck the method even has a name.

    Yet only a handful of people on the planet know about it?
    And a teacher in your school happens to be one of them?
    And you (a student) know that he’s one of them?
    And you manage to convince him to somehow tell you about it?

    I don’t give a shit how charming & persuasive you are…
    That’s just a silly plot hole.

  25. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 4:43 pm -      #525

    @Aelfinn
    ” response to me pointing out Percy slowing down allows people to attack him.”

    Iv already proved Percy would obliterate ALL of Hogwarts in a SINGLE wave.
    Which he created mid combat against a hundred ghosts.
    While he was exhausted.
    No one in Hogwarts will survive it if Percy goes down that route.
    (and there’s really nothing stopping him from creating it again… and again… and again…)

    Aside from that, i don’t think Wizards are all too effective underwater without having time to prepare for potential drowning.
    Specially since Percy has Radar-Omniscient awareness of everything going on around him while he’s underwater.
    And the speed/reaction time (which are both amped underwater) make it near impossible for someone with normal RT to target him for even a second.

    “Also, you’re saying “take” the castle doesn’t mean “possess” it? Really?”

    Read my explanation regarding it first, then feel free to respond to individual quotes.
    We’ve gone in circles around this too many times already.
    Post #478 & #487 to be specific

  26. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 4:46 pm -      #526

    “That’s just a silly plot hole.”

    I did post a list of some of the more major plot holes in the first 4 books. Most of them are sizeable, about equal to that one really.

  27. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 4:51 pm -      #527

    I don’t give a shit how charming & persuasive you are…
    That’s just a silly plot hole.


    Ramkin and myself have been saying from the beginning just how stupid Potterverse is from a plot point of view when you look at it like that.

    You don’t kill yourself to make a Horcrux, you have to kill someone else.

    I swear Dumbledore says splitting your soul in half is pretty much killing yourself.
    Also, probably the biggest reason people don’t do it is because of what happens when your body dies. Your spirit lives on, but as less than a ghost. It’s regarded as living hell.
    At least, that was the reasoning I got.

    Aside from that, i don’t think Wizards are all too effective underwater without having time to prepare for potential drowning.

    There’s a period at Hogwarts during 6th year where literally almost everyone uses the Bubble-Head charm to avoid having to smell the prank bombs.

  28. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 4:51 pm -      #528

    How in the world was Sirius ever arrested for killing those people?
    1) He didnt have a dark mark
    2) They can verify the truth with veritaserum
    3) THEY CAN LOOK AT MEMORIES, the can experience all of his memories in glorious 3D, how did they not immediately know the names and faces of every death eater, and imperious’d individual

    Better yet, hunting for death eaters? Make all uniforms sleeveless SIMPLE AS THAT.

    Instead of putting the philosophers stone in a box with the fidelius charm upon it, the same charm that made Volldermort unable to find the Potters indefinitely, they set up a series of tests that 3 FUCKING 11 YEAR OLDS CAN BYPASS

    moaning myrtle was KILLED in Hogwarts, and was hanging around as a ghost. Harry was the FIRST PERSON EVER to ask how she died, THE FIRST.

    How was Hagrid ever expelled for unleashing the monster, THEY CAN CHECK MEMORIES.

    Why, for any reason, would you give a 13 year old girl the ability to FUCK AROUND WITH TIME?!?!?! Her timetable was a bit full? FUCK OFF. You tell that bitch to drop some classes, you don’t give her a fucking time turner.

    How was Peter Petigrew NEVER spotted by fred and George FOR TWO YEARS on the marauders map when he sleeps in Rons bed EVERY NIGHT.

    Already covered why the Sirius thing is stupid.

    Why were hogsmead weekends never mentioned in the first 2 books? When the third book makes it very clear that all of the older students have been before.

    For what ever reason harry cant not participate in the tri wizard tournament. Its a Magically binding contract. but EVERY EVENT has the option for them to surrender by putting up red sparks, there was NO REASON for harry to participate.

    The second trial was held under water, and lasted just over an hour. Every student at Hogwarts sat and stared and the surface of the lake… for an HOUR, same thing for the third task, they jsut sat and looked at a maze WTF

    There is no reason for fudge to disbelieve Harry about voldermort because, you guessed it, THEY CAN LOOK AT MEMORIES
    – – –
    If you look at it with any kind of logic. Assuming logic starts at book one and not before hand. The after the first week at Hogwarts Fred and George get really confused because not only does Professor Quirrel always have the name Tom Riddle following him around, but their little bother has another person sleeping in his bed every night. And the whole plot goes down hill from there.

  29. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 5:00 pm -      #529

    “It could very easily be that “my mythology’s magic doesn’t work outside of my mythology”.”

    it seems to work both ways though, Greek magic doesn’t work on stuff outside of Greek myths nor do the enchanted weapons, and magic and enchanted weapons from outside Greek mythology don’t seem to work on them.

  30. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 5:06 pm -      #530

    “There’s a period at Hogwarts during 6th year where literally almost everyone uses the Bubble-Head charm to avoid having to smell the prank bombs.”

    That’s not really what I meant.

    It was more in regards to the movement/turning speed being heavily lowered while under water.

    And sight will be quite an issue too. I mean, I’m sure they have some sort of light spell, but being in an underwater pitch black castle wreckage still heavily limits sight.

    Light spells also mean shadows.
    Which nico can shadow step to. Which has pretty good synergy with his life sense.

  31. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 5:09 pm -      #531

    “Your spirit lives on, but as less than a ghost. It’s regarded as living hell.
    At least, that was the reasoning I got.”

    that and if you get permakilled you get trapped in Limbo for eternity.

  32. pimpmage April 1, 2015 at 5:22 pm -      #532

    lady… I can’t believe you don’t know better about the time turner. You cannot effect the past or change anything. She used it to attend classes she didn’t have time for. You cannot change the past or effect anything while using it.

  33. Kara Zor-El April 1, 2015 at 5:31 pm -      #533

    “You cannot change the past or effect anything while using it.”
    _
    Sorry to jump in here, but I clearly watched the third movie entirely wrong. Because they used it to go back in time and change quite a few things. Like, saving Buckbeak, calling Werewolf Lupin away from themselves, Potter using the Patronus charm to save himself… and freeing Sirius.
    _
    Unless that all didn’t happen… I’ve never been a huge fan of the series, and only watched the movies with nieces at the time.

  34. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 5:44 pm -      #534

    It all happened in the books, though the Patronus thing was more of a closed time loop than changing the past (if Harry had not gone back in time to cast the Patronus he wouldn’t have lived to go back in time)

  35. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 5:49 pm -      #535

    I thought the time turner was always a loop thing?
    Like interstellar.
    Whatever it was that you “changed” had already happened in the initial timeline… If that makes sense…

  36. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 5:51 pm -      #536

    The Time turner sort of works like if there is ever any other timeline then it gets wiped from everyone’s memory. Basically if you use the time turner then it would have been done already.

  37. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 5:51 pm -      #537

    “lady… I can’t believe you don’t know better about the time turner. You cannot effect the past or change anything. She used it to attend classes she didn’t have time for. You cannot change the past or effect anything while using it.”

    The fact that she was attending classes that she didnt have time for kind of already proves that she can change things. Unless you mean that any changes you will make have already happened so nothing is actually any different?

    Unless you mean that even if she hadn’t been given the time turner she would STILL be in both classes at once?

  38. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 5:55 pm -      #538

    I thought the time turner was always a loop thing?

    It is, I believe the word we want falls under “Paradox” in some manner or fashion.

    Oh, I didn’t say it earlier, welcome to BankGambling Klondike.

  39. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 6:00 pm -      #539

    Thnx friendly sociopath! For both.

    Also this is mainly in response to the magic effecting the demigods. Weren’t people like Aristotle wizards? And aren’t all of the spells latin based?

  40. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 6:03 pm -      #540

    aren’t all of the spells latin based?

    Latin is Roman. Greek citizens spoke… Greek. Rowling also didn’t always use latin for all of the spells; though she did for a majority of them.

    Weren’t people like Aristotle wizards?

    Yes, but a big part of Percy’s universe is the Gods. While Greek figures exist in HP universe, the Gods that they draw power from didn’t; that would appear to be the “kick” to it.

  41. Kara Zor-El April 1, 2015 at 6:06 pm -      #541

  42. pimpmage April 1, 2015 at 6:11 pm -      #542

    Lady, she doesn’t attend the classes during the first run through of her day. She goes back in time and learns from other classes she is signed up for. And with that griffin bit, it never died ever. They saw the executioner chop a pumpkin when they went back in time. The same pumpkin that was chopped out of view the first time around.

  43. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 6:15 pm -      #543

    And with that griffin bit, it never died ever.

    It absolutely did, you back that up with evidence.

    Time Turner lets you go back in time- literally, not in a multiverse sense.

    I sense there will be much going in circles if we continue down this line…

  44. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 6:17 pm -      #544

    ok. I think that makes sense.

  45. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 6:18 pm -      #545

    “Lady, she doesn’t attend the classes during the first run through of her day. She goes back in time and learns from other classes she is signed up for. And with that griffin bit, it never died ever. They saw the executioner chop a pumpkin when they went back in time. The same pumpkin that was chopped out of view the first time around.”

    I cant tell if you are joking with me right now, or if you just arn’t reading what you are saying

  46. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 6:20 pm -      #546

    Plus book three included discussion of Egyptian magical figures and curses further muddying the waters on the discussion.

  47. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 6:27 pm -      #547

    Wait.. Did the Griffen really die the first showing?

    If it did, doesn’t that contradict the the next showing of the stag patronus?

    One of them is a loop paradox, whereas the other is just time travel…
    Is that just another fuck up by JK Rowling?

  48. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 6:30 pm -      #548

    You never see what they swing an axe at until the time travel hapens. Most of how time travel works is literaly a paradox. If you had not gone back in time to save yourself you would have dide before you could go back in time. So time turners can not save the day if they lose the battle.

  49. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 6:31 pm -      #549

    Well Hermione is always in both classes at the same time, if she is in the first one, she is also in the second one and when the first one finishes she uses the time turner to live the her that was taking the second one.

  50. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 6:32 pm -      #550

    Its not like a Time Turner is involved here, unless someone from Hogwarts decides to run to London.

    Also it was a Hippogriff not a Griffin. Not important….but nitpick.

  51. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 6:33 pm -      #551

    Wait.. Did the Griffen really die the first showing?

    Yes, Hagrid screams about it. The second time when it’s saved he starts yelling about how clever Buckbeak was rather than howling with sadness.

    One of them is a loop paradox, whereas the other is just time travel…

    Yes, see how fun defending Potterverse is now?

    So time turners can not save the day if they lose the battle.

    They aren’t even here, we got to this by talking about plotholes.

  52. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 6:35 pm -      #552

    “Yes, Hagrid screams about it. The second time when it’s saved he starts yelling about how clever Buckbeak was rather than howling with sadness.”

    Im pretty sure he still yells the second time too.

  53. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 6:36 pm -      #553

    I only ever like the first three books. All of the rest that came after kind of ruined the series.

  54. pimpmage April 1, 2015 at 6:37 pm -      #554

    You guys think I am trolling… Funny…

    If I remember correctly, the events from the book happened like this. The potter crew heard buck was gonna be executed. They arrive at the pumpkin patch to see the executioner chop something in the field that was out of view of the group. They think they didn’t arrive in time to save buck. They think they can go back in time to fix this, so they use the turner. They go back and find out that the executioner actually chopped a pumpkin because haggy let buck escape earlier before the execution. Buck was never in danger in the first place.

  55. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 6:40 pm -      #555

    Im pretty sure he still yells the second time too.

    Yeah, but he follows it up with shouting about Buckbeak getting away; this was not present the first time.

    Hermione is in both classes simultaneously- that we know for sure.

  56. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 6:40 pm -      #556

    “You guys think I am trolling”

    I don’t, honest, its just you said:

    “she doesn’t attend the classes during the first run through of her day”

    You also said

    “And with that griffin bit, it never died ever.”

    Well, if there is a first time through where she is only in one class, then surely there is a first time through where they didn’t save Buckbeak?

    “Yeah, but he follows it up with shouting about Buckbeak getting away; this was not present the first time or Harry and them wouldn’t have been so sad”

    They were pretty far away when they heard it the first time… And Hagrid isn’t exactly the clearest fellow.

  57. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 6:47 pm -      #557

    “Yeah, but he follows it up with shouting about Buckbeak getting away; this was not present the first time.”

    Is it possible that they just didn’t hear the rest of the rant the first time?
    Or maybe it was just the movie directors not paying attention?

    I’m pretty sure this contradiction isn’t present in the books.
    The Time Turner IS supposed to work with Loop Paradoxes.
    And Buckbeak technically was never killed.
    The scream thing was likely just for false suspense.

  58. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 6:49 pm -      #558

    “This contradiction may not be present in the books.”

    Still don’t have the books on me but: IIRC
    Hagrid yells both times and sobs both times. He is crying in general joy that Buckbeak got away. First time through they are really far away from his hut, and im pretty sure that right after that Sirius grabs Ron and they chase after him, so they didnt exactly hang around.

  59. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 6:50 pm -      #559

    Is it possible that they just didn’t hear the rest of the rant the first time?

    Possible, but I really don’t know how you could mistake a scream of sorrow for one of joy.

    I’m pretty sure this contradiction isn’t present in the books.

    I’m going off of the books.

    The scream thing was likely just for false suspense.

    True

    For anyone interested, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem got a trailer today.

  60. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 6:51 pm -      #560

    “Possible, but I really don’t know how you could mistake a scream of sorrow for one of joy”

    I think it’s described as a howl both times. IIRC, AFAIK
    – – –
    “For anyone interested, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem got a trailer today.”

    I would probably be more excited if i had ever heard of Shin Megami Tensei… but new fire emblem, YAY.

  61. Commander Cross April 1, 2015 at 6:55 pm -      #561

    @Councilor Aelfinn at #523

    Pardon the upcoming Crudeness in the responses, but What the Bloody Hell took you so long!?

    Ta’averen-ness is more Permanent though, yet if anything’s gonna solve our problems, we ought to go ahead and just post up Felix Felicis Effects vs. Ta’averen-ness and have the main bulk of future discussions with that stuff talked about in there.

    Maybe gather proverbial Guinea Pigs if need be.

    Also Pottermore is where the Magical Congress of the United States of America were first noted, and the one instance where we saw any major numbers ‘on-screen’ in Potter-more were during showings when the Modern-day Magical Governments(for ONCE) were not out to do idiocies in particular, yet it’s only 1/5th of what I’d really be hoping for.

    I still have the Pottermore links if anyone still goes there for the Quidditch matters.

    Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, Now THAT is a Video Game I’d hope to play at some point.
    Also correct me if I’m wrong, but the last time I checked, most charges of ‘Fantasy Kitchen Sink’ I’d recall is pretty much just another fancy-shmancy term for (most variants worth their salt of) ‘The Apocalypse’, which surprisingly enough the 1st two Mainline Shin Megami Tensei games actually followed through with.

    The Mainline Shin Megami Tensei games are very bloody Twisted though.

  62. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 6:57 pm -      #562

    Depends on the type of Ta’averen-ness though, right? Matt never had a bad thing happen to him, or around him…. Well things that he considered bad, but nothing truly negative.

  63. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 6:59 pm -      #563

    Also to note: the reason Time Turners are dangerous is because Wizards that meet themselves when they go back in time sometimes kill their previous self. Obviously this did *not* happen before because then they’d be dead before they used the Time Turner.

    Time Travel, is there any topic that can give a bigger headache over nothing?
    harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Un-born
    harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Time
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle
    harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Time-Turner

    Wow, they even know about all the problems Time Travel can cause- and they give it to Hermione when she’s how old? 13?

    What are the current arguments for both sides?

    Currently we’re in kind of a holding pattern waiting for the OP to show up so we can ask him stuff.

  64. man April 1, 2015 at 7:02 pm -      #564

    What are the current arguments for both sides?

  65. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 7:04 pm -      #565

    Percy destroys the castle and due to ambiguous wording potentially pulls the win

    Hogwarts staff/pupils teleport out and turn them all in to ferrets/ Mind control them/ sets them all on fire/ BFR’s them/ Turns them to stone/ freezes them in time/ removes all their bones

  66. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 7:12 pm -      #566

    @Man
    “What are the current arguments for both sides?”

    My opinion?
    CHB stomps in every situation unless they specifically need to “Occupy” Hogwarts without heavily damaging it.
    In which case Hogwarts gets a chance. A small one in my opinion, but still a chance.

    Arguments in favor:
    Percy being able to wreck Hogwarts in a single Wave. The location of the school really helps out with that.

    Aside from that, Percy can sink the school and assassinate whoever quite easily.
    He has a near omniscient radar sense of everything going on around him while in water, so cloaking spells won’t be very helpful.
    His speed & reaction time also trump just about everything Hogwarts can throw at him, UNLESS he gets swarmed, which is incredibly unlikely underwater since the Wizards will lose vision, speed, & co-ordination.

    Nicco is CHBs second trump card.
    He has enough Geokenises to break down most of Hogwarts. (He broke down a mountain fortress before) Again, Howarts location helps out.

    He can also summon “thousands” of undead from hell. Some of whom have guns (which Wizards are heavily outclassed by).
    He can also move via Shadows which helps keep him safe. You can’t really kill a shadow.

    Nicco also has a “life sensing aura” which makes assassinating targets quite convenient.

  67. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 7:13 pm -      #567

    @Ramkin
    “Hogwarts staff/pupils teleport out and turn them all in to ferrets/ Mind control them/ sets them all on fire/ BFR’s them/ Turns them to stone/ freezes them in time/ removes all their bones”

    Or.. Ya know.. Percy &/or Nicco just kill them all.
    That can totally happen.

    Regarding the teleporting btw, how long do mirrored objects last?
    I’ve read they eventually break apart, and if it’s a magical item it loses its charm eventually.

    So… How reliably can mass-portkeys be made in 4 days?
    And how likely is it that they’ll all still stay ready for use by the time the match starts?

  68. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 7:15 pm -      #568

    “Or.. Ya know.. Percy &/or Nicco just kill them all.
    That can totally happen.”

    Well if somebody simply appears behind them and then cast the spell to turn them into a ferret which takes about as long as it does to think the word.
    That could totally happen.

    “So… How reliably can mass-portkeys be made in 4 days?”

    When we see Dumbledore make a portkey, he points his wand at a thing and says portus. So that is like a port key every second, if he has the objects, and dumbledore can make things out of thin air, so. A port key can be made every 5 seconds.

    soo….. 69120 portkeys in 4 days… assuming no stops. and thats from one person.

  69. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 7:21 pm -      #569

    A portky is created by saying portus and one portky can transport as many people as can touch it. also couldn’t the wizards transmute the water into something else?

    Tbh I think that the demigods win no matter what the people in the castle due to lack of reliable feats for the wizards.

  70. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 7:22 pm -      #570

    @Ramkin
    “Well if somebody simply appears behind them and then cast the spell to turn them into a ferret which takes about as long as it does to think the word.”

    Oh, right, caus Wizards are all omniscient and know exactly where everyone is!
    You see, Percy & Nicco actually have a reason they can reliably hunt people down. Hogwarts does not.

    Wizards use portkeys to teleport to camp & begin the onslaught, chances are Percy’s already jumped into the lake. (Yes, he WOULD logically be stationed next to the lake, considering they’ve set up siege lines)

    Doesn’t matter how many Wizards are out there, they won’t be killing him after that.

    Best case scenario, he makes a tidal wave just sufficient enough to sink the area, secures his friends physically or by producing bubbles of air around them, and finishes off Team 2 himself.

    Worst case scenario, his buddies are already dead, his tidal wave just kills everyone in the area.

    @Klondike
    ” also couldn’t the wizards transmute the water into something else?”

    I’d love to see a feat of mass transmutation for something like that.

  71. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 7:25 pm -      #571

    “Oh, right, caus Wizards are all omniscient and know exactly where everyone is!”

    well…. if the have the map, that harry keeps on his person, that lables the names and positions of every one in the castle and surrounding grounds…. which they do…. then yeah… they do know where everyone is. Ive posted that at least twice.

  72. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 7:29 pm -      #572

    How many students live in Hogwarts? Because only fifth year and up realy seem like they could do anything… at all.

    Would the antiaperation wards give nico any trouble telaporting?

  73. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 7:30 pm -      #573

    “How many students live in Hogwarts?”

    according to Rowling, 1000, Even if the do send away all of the students in 5th year and below that is still 285 ish students.
    – – –
    You should probably look at post#500

  74. Commander Cross April 1, 2015 at 7:30 pm -      #574

    Or we can can go and note that we will all die shortly along with both sides in this fight even if we don’t include all the guys from Red vs Blue(the Blood Gulch Crew, the Amateurs the Crew met from seasons 3-5, and the Freelancers all working together) in it and include Silent Hill for good measure.

    The resulting amount of Mutually Assured Destruction being enough to wipe us all out before any Cosmic Wars arrive at our doorsteps, all at the same time (The Original!-) Merlin was brought some Headache-related Medications by Jesus Christ(The Lord Junior) over the sight of what they just saw, for too many reasons beyond counting.

    The link below says it all, since That would totally happen.

  75. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 7:31 pm -      #575

    @Ramkin
    “well…. if the have the map,”

    The map works outside Hogwarts…?
    Didn’t know that.

    ” that lables the names and positions of every one ”

    They’ll be seeing a clusterfuck of hundreds of names.
    You think they’ll be co-ordinated enough to take ALL of them out immediately without chaos or hesitation?
    1. Have you seen/read a Harry Potter? (sarcasm intended)
    2. No one in Hogwarts has ever shown to be that great of a battle strategist.

    “castle and surrounding grounds”

    You might wanna clarify what you mean by surrounding grounds.

    ” they do know where everyone is. ”

    ONE person knows where everyone is. Unless they have more of those maps, which they might(?)

    I still don’t see what good it’ll do.
    Percy still has “blur” fighting speed, which means he’s considerably faster running in a straight line. Not that he’d need to run much if he’s posted near the lake, which would require just a minimal amount of common sense.

    Now he ACTUALLY is a good battle strategist, unlike the people at Hogwarts.
    Something that should be kept in mind btw, i don’t think it’s ever been brought up, but it’s pretty important to consider in a situation like this.

    “that is still 285 ish students.”

    Isn’t that about equal numbers to CHB?
    BEFORE the thousands of constantly resurrecting undead ofcourse. Some of whom have guns. Meaning each of them is likely to kill a good chunk of Wizards.

  76. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 7:37 pm -      #576

    “The map works outside Hogwarts…?”

    It is a map of the castle and grounds

    Also harry has used it while not on the Hogwarts premises, depending on what you meant.
    – – –
    “They’ll be seeing a clusterfuck of hundreds of names.”

    Hundreds? How many demigods are there. i thought there was like…. 40
    – – –
    “You think they’ll be co-ordinated enough to take ALL of them out immediately without chaos or hesitation?”

    OP wanted to give them 4 hours prep, and you said 4 days. Im just assuming they have some amount of useful preptime.
    – – –
    “No one in Hogwarts has ever shown to be that great of a battle strategist.”

    Who needs battle strategy? Teleport there, use ferret spell.
    – – –
    “You might wanna clarify what you mean by surrounding grounds.”

    Well….. any bit that…. isn’t Hogwarts anymore….. I dont…
    Someone help?
    – – –
    “ONE person knows where everyone is. Unless they have more of those maps, which they might(?)”

    I don’t think they do. But if they do have preptime only one person really needs to know, and that is the person making the portkeys
    – – –
    “BEFORE the thousands of constantly resurrecting undead ofcourse”

    unless Nico becomes a ferret, or mind controlled, in which case Hogwarts gets thousands of constantly resurrecting undead?

  77. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 7:39 pm -      #577

    The map works outside Hogwarts…?

    To be precise, it works on Hogwarts “grounds”. I believe it even hits parts of Hogsmeade.

    You might wanna clarify what you mean by surrounding grounds.

    The grounds that surround Hogwarts, not really a smartass reply but that’s as much as we get.

    ONE person knows where everyone is. Unless they have more of those maps, which they might(?)

    Replication charm.

    BEFORE the thousands of constantly resurrecting undead ofcourse. Some of whom have guns. Meaning each of them is likely to kill a good chunk of Wizards.

    Pretty sure Nico calls up the dead bodies nearby, not from anywhere. Unless you have quotes otherwise?

  78. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 7:40 pm -      #578

    Also I have not seen anybody talk about piper useing charmspeak or the like. She can literaly tell you go shoot yourself in the head and you will go sure.

  79. LadyRamkin April 1, 2015 at 7:44 pm -      #579

    “Also I have not seen anybody talk about piper useing charmspeak or the like. She can literaly tell you go shoot yourself in the head and you will go sure.”

    Or the match startes some one appears behind her, and she is a ferret, or mind controlled and she gets all of her friends to kill themselves
    – – –
    Have to go, tis 0:45, work in the morning, NIGHT ALL

  80. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 7:46 pm -      #580

    The surrounding grounds show up to the edge of the forest and a large portion of the Hogsmead tunnel.

    Something that I thought of that could help the wizards was that during the fifth year fred and george created a swamp in the hallway. Could they do the oposite and turn the lake into a desert? And what about the merpeople in the lake?

  81. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 7:55 pm -      #581

    @Friendly
    “Pretty sure Nico calls up the dead bodies nearby, not from anywhere.”

    They climb out of the underworld. The place where all dead bodies go.

    “Replication charm.”

    Fair enough.
    Any reason that was never used on it before…?

    “The grounds that surround Hogwarts, not really a smartass reply but that’s as much as we get.”

    So… There’s like a 50/50 chance it actually covers the entirety of the siege lines?

    @Ramkin
    “Also harry has used it while not on the Hogwarts premises,”

    Isn’t the town literally right next door to Hogwarts?

    “Hundreds? How many demigods are there. i thought there was like…. 40″

    A lot more join after The Last Olympian.
    I would guess a hundred.

    “OP wanted to give them 4 hours prep, and you said 4 days. Im just assuming they have some amount of useful preptime.”

    …I did?

    Also, no amount of Prep-Time is going to help them pull off something as co-ordinated as that. Seriously.
    The characters have been given prep time before, and it still results in cluster fucks ever. single. time.
    That’s a CiS issue, not a PiS. They simply aren’t good at planning battles.

    “Who needs battle strategy? Teleport there, use ferret spell.”

    1. Ok, AFAIK using a portkey (or any form of teleportation for that matter) leaves you a bit dizzy, and requires AT LEAST a second to get your bearings. Yes yes, the teachers would be exceptions.

    2. Assuming some of the students don’t get killed due to ^1 right off the bat, a good amount of the demigods will at least be in close enough distance to put up a fight. Meaning CQC.
    Pointing a wand in that situation can be easier said than done.

    I’m not saying it isn’t a good strategy with a high success rate… It just isn’t anywhere near as flawless as you make it out to be.

    “I don’t think they do. But if they do have preptime only one person really needs to know, and that is the person making the portkeys”

    So in 4 days no one in CHB moves…? Really…?
    Please think about what you just said.

    Yes the Wizards can get easy & efficient access to the CHB base, but no they will not be in perfect positions to instantly snipe everyone.

    Tbh none of this really deals with the Percy issue (or Nicco, who would likely be close by to him) unless you think they’re all going to gangbang him which isn’t all too likely or in character.
    Also all of CHB will be in battle-ready shape during this attack, and may even be expecting a surprise counter.
    It’s not like Hogwarts is getting in a massive sneak attack on unready/sleeping dudes.

  82. Klondike Bar April 1, 2015 at 8:02 pm -      #582

    CHB for the FP Award?
    +1

  83. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 8:09 pm -      #583

    Also guys, can’t the Oracle (Rachel?) see the future?
    Or even other events happening in the present?

    Aside from Thalias immortality, can’t she also call down lightning like Jason?
    And she can also control the mists to make illusions of her own.
    Could that make Wizards see each other as Campers? Good fun.

    Andddd for Jason, he can create pretty strong winds. Which would take a good 80-90% of students off their game.
    Aside from that there’s the obvious lightning strikes & flight.
    Isn’t he also as fast as Percy? So pretty fucking fast?

    Luke has teleportation of his own.

    And Piper & Drew both have Charm Speak.
    What makes you think Wizards can aim & cast before either of them gets the time to just shout: “kill each other”
    Which would effect more than just 1 person of course.
    Heck even if they just manage to get out “kill” everyone will go into a killing rampage, which leads to Wizards killing their own as well.

    In fact i’m 99% sure they don’t even need to speak to magically attract the opposite sex.
    And since this is a canon ability, it actually does effect the Wizards too.
    If only for a split second.

  84. pimpmage April 1, 2015 at 8:10 pm -      #584

    This is getting quite old rag, you respond to new strategies while completely disregarding the previous ones. You responded to every point and acted like we haven’t already talked about invisibility for every student. Come the fuck on dude, you pull this crap in every debate.

  85. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 8:11 pm -      #585

    1. Ok, AFAIK using a portkey (or any form of teleportation for that matter) leaves you a bit dizzy, and requires AT LEAST a second to get your bearings. Yes yes, the teachers would be exceptions.

    Well they would be? The adults are all fine when using them- Harry is dizzy because he never gets to use something they take for granted. Same with him effing up Floo Transport.

    It’s not like Hogwarts is getting in a massive sneak attack on unready/sleeping dudes.

    No, but a giant chunk of CHB focus on CQC, which is useless against someone who can turn you into a newt before you can reach them. And are invisible, which you have yet to counter.

    So in 4 days no one in CHB moves…? Really…?
    Please think about what you just said.


    There’s 1,000 students at Hogwarts and Harry can pick out the one he’s looking for easily, please think about what you’re saying.

    Tbh none of this really deals with the Percy issue

    Which is? Massive wave to destroy the school- great- everyone who can apparate out is fine. That’s all of the teachers, all of the aurors, and a decent chunk of the 6th and 7th years. They can also take promising younger students in side-along apparation- which is literally “take them with you when you apparate”.

    Now move past that and explain how he can take invisible people that can KO him without getting close to him.

  86. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 8:20 pm -      #586

    Few other quick things i wanna mention,

    Yes yes, i know the Wizards can all be invisible and what not (although it’s worth noting they had to recast all their invisibility spells every time they teleported their camp) but:

    1. If everyone’s invisible, there’s a chance wizards are going to end up hitting some of their own, in the initial cluster fuck of things.
    Specially if multiple people use the same port keys.

    2. The Port Keys are going to be made ahead of time, and since CHB is filled with actual PEOPLE that MOVE, the Port Keys will NOT teleport people into perfect positions.

    3. Suddenly crashing into a place causes noise. Or it would make the grass budge at the very least.
    And leaves the users without bearing.
    Demigods DO have the ADHD, and they ARE prepared for battle, and they COULD be expecting a counter attack (since they actually have battle experience), so that’s going to ring bells.

    4. If any of the mentioned characters above get even a SECOND before they’re killed, it could result in a shit storm that Team Hogwarts really doesn’t need in order to accomplish their overly elaborate scheme.

    5. Chances of all important characters immediately getting sniped off is almost nonexistent.
    Don’t bullshit yourself.

    6. If Percy gets to the lake, which is likely considering the reaction times of the people assaulting the camp, his movement speed, and his obvious desire to want to be near water, it’s game over.

    Not saying Hogwarts has no chance of winning, but the team that has MORE methods of winning is the team that’s statistically more likely to win.
    And it’s blatantly obvious which team that is.

    +1 for CHB taking the FPA, since we’re starting that i suppose.

  87. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 8:27 pm -      #587

    @Pimp
    “You responded to every point and acted like we haven’t already talked about invisibility for every student.”

    @Friendly
    “And are invisible, which you have yet to counter.”

    Wrote my post #586 before seeing either of these,
    But well there you go.

    “Well they would be? The adults are all fine when using them- Harry is dizzy because he never gets to use something they take for granted.”

    Teleporting to a new location would make ANYONE with average reaction times take a second to get their bearings back.
    I’m not saying they’re going to trip and fall, but they definitely aren’t going to be in instant fire positions.
    Saying otherwise doesn’t make sense and you know it.

    When people Apparate they probably have more control over exactly where they want to end up, and thus more control over their state of mind when reaching that location.
    That’s not really the case with Portkeys, it just dumps you there.

    “There’s 1,000 students at Hogwarts and Harry can pick out the one he’s looking for easily, please think about what you’re saying.”

    How does harry get to pick the important targets again…?
    Teams get basic information about each other. Not specific information about members.
    No, “Percy is hella important” is not basic information about Team CHB.
    And no, prep time doesn’t mean they can run background investigations on the camp.

    “Which is? Massive wave to destroy the school- great- everyone who can apparate out is fine.”

    Right, because waves can ONLY hit the school.
    Okay friendly, okay.
    That’s quite low.

  88. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 8:33 pm -      #588

    1. If everyone’s invisible, there’s a chance wizards are going to end up hitting some of their own, in the initial cluster fuck of things.

    With what? A giant chunk of their spells aren’t beams- and they can’t target people they can’t see for the spells without a beam.

    2. The Port Keys are going to be made ahead of time, and since CHB is filled with actual PEOPLE that MOVE, the Port Keys will NOT teleport people into perfect positions.

    Yessssss? Not entirely sure what your point was here tbh.

    3. Suddenly crashing into a place causes noise. Or it would make the grass budge at the very least.
    And leaves the users without bearing.


    They don’t suddenly “crash” anywhere. Adults have no issue landing with them at all. Mind sourcing this “crash” of yours? That isn’t Harry?
    And I’d like a source of this “without bearing” too not that it matters since literally everyone in CHB wears armor and all that jazz- easy to figure out who the enemy is.

    4. If any of the mentioned characters above get even a SECOND before they’re killed, it could result in a shit storm that Team Hogwarts really doesn’t need in order to accomplish their overly elaborate scheme.

    What? In open combat without a Percy ‘lolnope’ wave CHB is against opponents that are invisible and can KO them without a problem.

    5. Chances of all important characters immediately getting sniped off is almost nonexistent.
    Don’t bullshit yourself.


    Firstly, if there’s prep Hogwarts has fucking telescopes, shapeshifters, and invisible reconnaissance they can figure out who is important and who is not and plan accordingly.
    Secondly, at roughly a camper every other second, the entire CHB force is incapacitated by 20 Wizards in less than half a minute. And Hogwarts has at least 50 people going from teachers, Order members, and older students.

    6. If Percy gets to the lake, which is likely considering the reaction times of the people assaulting the camp, his movement speed, and his obvious desire to want to be near water, it’s game over.

    And here we come back to Percy wank. He’s not invincible in the fucking water. He’s still just as vulnerable to magic as he was before. And he can’t wave people he can’t see and can teleport on a whim. Who can also become immune to drowning in several different methods.

    Right, because waves can ONLY hit the school.
    Okay friendly, okay.
    That’s quite low.


    Dragging all of that water back to hit something else takes time, even for Percy.

  89. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 8:34 pm -      #589

    Oh, and:

    @Pimpmage
    “This is getting quite old rag, you respond to new strategies while completely disregarding the previous ones.”

    NEW strategies?
    Hogwarts literally has JUST ONE for even a sliver of a chance at victory, and that has been the ONLY strategy all along.
    Which is Invisibility + Teleportation + Instant Kill.

  90. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #590

    @Friendly
    “With what? A giant chunk of their spells aren’t beams- and they can’t target people they can’t see for the spells without a beam.”

    Wait, why are we assuming that none of the characters will be using beams..? Despite it being in their characters to consistently do so during engagements?
    It’s not like the Wizards all know about CHBs speedsters & superior reaction time.
    They have no reason to fight differently.

    “Yessssss? Not entirely sure what your point was here tbh.”

    Not being in perfect position = not killing instantly = time for enemy to react.

    “They don’t suddenly “crash” anywhere. Adults have no issue landing with them at all. Mind sourcing this “crash” of yours?”

    1. Landing still moves grass & makes a tad bit of noise.
    Unless you think it’s flawless perfection that does neither of those things.
    Campers DO have a heightened sense when it comes to things like this.
    And being battleready does increase the odds of noticing it.

    “Mind sourcing this “crash” of yours? That isn’t Harry?”

    Why is Harry an exception?
    Are you saying students are more like the Teachers than like a fellow Student? Seriously?

    “What? In open combat without a Percy ‘lolnope’ wave CHB is against opponents that are invisible and can KO them without a problem.”

    1. Jason wind/lightning storm.
    Most kids without any superhuman durability are going to fall on their asses or lose their aim at the very least.
    Heck some might even drop their wands, which does happen.

    2. Charm Speak, which you ignored for some reason.
    Literally just one word from either of those 2 characters, and everyone around them starts killing each other.

    “Firstly, if there’s prep Hogwarts has fucking telescopes, shapeshifters, and invisible reconnaissance they can figure out who is important and who is not and plan accordingly.”

    Wait wait wait, Hogwarts get to prep OUTSIDE of Hogwarts?
    Since when was that part of the agreement?
    Pretty sure when JMT mentioned it, he was referring to setting up traps & defenses or what not.
    But there was never mention of them being able to leave the school.

    Also, telescopes don’t help you find out who’s important and who isn’t here.
    CHB don’t get prep remember? they won’t be doing anything worth noting as importance.
    The Siege lines have already been laid, and they eventually just attack. Doing anything more would be prep, which they don’t get.
    Unless you wish to discuss giving them prep.

    “Secondly, at roughly a camper every other second, the entire CHB force is incapacitated by 20 Wizards in less than half a minute.”

    Right, if you take them all to be brain dead zombies.

    “And here we come back to Percy wank. He’s not invincible in the fucking water.”

    In a big body of water such as a lake? Against Wizards from Harry Potter? Yea, he really is.
    Let me guess, you think they can spot him swimming deep underwater and hit him?

    ” And he can’t wave people he can’t see”

    You… What… Really?
    It’s a 35-40 story high wave. Do you have the slightest idea how big that is?

  91. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 9:05 pm -      #591

    “Dragging all of that water back to hit something else takes time, even for Percy.”

    Why would he have to drag it “back”?
    Why would he even attack Hogwarts if everyone in Hogwarts “immediately” attacks the camp like you said?
    Are you suggesting that they’ll wait for him?

    Either way, first things first he would be jumping into that lake.
    From there it truly doesn’t fucking matter how long it takes him.

    “Who can also become immune to drowning in several different methods.”

    Not drowning allows them to catch up to someone in the middle of the 35-40 story high wave?

  92. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 9:30 pm -      #592

    Why is Harry an exception?

    You cannot seriously be asking why the main hero of the series can be an exception.
    But I’ll answer you- Harry never uses magic as casually as the other kids.
    Portkeys, Floo Powder, Side-Along Apparation; all of this is taken for granted by regular wizard kids. Harry never gets to use them until he does.

    Are you saying students are more like the Teachers than like a fellow Student? Seriously?

    Yes, because that’s literally how it is in the books. Older kids from the 6th and 7th year landed fine when using the Portkey.
    If you’re going to tell me I’m wrong, at least know the source material you’re calling me wrong about.

    Not being in perfect position = not killing instantly = time for enemy to react.

    They have to be within like 10-50 feet. And what exactly are the CHB going to react besides a somewhat comedic version of
    “What was that?”
    “I heard a noise!”
    “Something happened!”
    and still have no defense whatsoever against the incoming attacks.

    And being battleready does increase the odds of noticing it.

    Yes, they’ll know something is up. But they can’t do anything about it. See above.

    Wait wait wait, Hogwarts get to prep OUTSIDE of Hogwarts?
    Since when was that part of the agreement?
    Pretty sure when JMT mentioned it, he was referring to setting up traps & defenses or what not.
    But there was never mention of them being able to leave the school.


    Why would they be unable to spy on the forces sitting on their doorstep during this time that they supposedly have?

    Right, if you take them all to be brain dead zombies.

    For the most part- they are. Cannon fodder is cannon fodder. Particularly cannon fodder being attacked by people they can’t see and teleport in the middle of combat without an issue. What are they going to do? Swing at empty air?

    In a big body of water such as a lake? Against Wizards from Harry Potter? Yea, he really is.
    Let me guess, you think they can spot him swimming deep underwater and hit him?


    Yes to the first and yes to the second. Give me a reason why not.
    Speed does nothing against spells that aren’t beams, which they would use since it’s CIS to not use them.
    And he has no feats of fighting or controlling water for the quote that you say makes him hypersonic, it’s only travel speed.

    It’s a 35-40 story high wave. Do you have the slightest idea how big that is?

    Sweet, it’s not like a giant wave is telegraphed or anything. And it’s not like the wizards can’t just teleport out of the way.

    1. Jason wind/lightning storm.
    Most kids without any superhuman durability are going to fall on their asses or lose their aim at the very least.
    Heck some might even drop their wands, which does happen.


    Sure it does, then they just pick them back up when the few that didn’t lose them stone/freeze/transform/paralyze or otherwise incapacitate him.
    It’s not like their invisibility fades just because they lose their wands.

    2. Charm Speak, which you ignored for some reason.
    Literally just one word from either of those 2 characters, and everyone around them starts killing each other.


    Piper I can see, who was the other one? And when has Piper successfully told someone to kill herself? And how is she going to be able to know to do that when she has no idea she’s under attack until she’s KO’d?

    Percy still has “blur” fighting speed, which means he’s considerably faster running in a straight line.

    Blur fighting speed that currently is being debated elsewhere. An “exchange” of blows and “strike and parry” are the examples given in that quote for blurred combat. At worst that’s literally one “trade” between the two of them. At best it’s maybe an attack each, at absolute wank it’s 3- none of which is out of this world for even our normal fencers.

    Also, considering you admitted Felix Felicis shows you the path to victory- they know EXACTLY who to target.
    So, teleport blitz to get the important people followed by mopping up the fodder.

  93. Nsl98 April 1, 2015 at 9:43 pm -      #593

    Piper I can see, who was the other one? And when has Piper successfully told someone to kill herself? And how is she going to be able to know to do that when she has no idea she’s under attack until she’s KO’d?

    Drew Tanaka, former Aphrodite counselor. And it’s not just Charmspeak, monsters and demigods have looked at Piper and been stunned in awe of her beauty.
    —-
    Oh, and Piper’s Charmspeak has worked on mortals, demigods, monsters, primordial Earth Goddesses, and gods.

    Feats for the Wizards resisting something on that scale?

  94. Commander Cross April 1, 2015 at 10:00 pm -      #594

    @Nsl98 at #593

    Since Combat Speeds are getting Downplayed as of late, and we may as well do the same ‘courtesy’ of the Inheritance Novels by Paolini regarding Eragon himself afterward, we can just note how well the Staff and Students reacted around a lot of Veela-blooded Individuals like Fleur Delacour or the more Veela-blooded Folks from the Quidditch World Cup at the start of The Goblet of Fire when the Bulgarians were represented in fact.

    Presence-wise, Veela-blooded Folks in principle do the same kind of thing the Aphy kids have been noted to do with their looks and whatnot.
    ‘Starting’ Combat Stats and Physical Prowess would be where they’d differ from the ‘Average’ Non-Legacy Aphy kid, where only Training from The Netherrealm(Training from HELL!) will bother to fix and Patch the Gap up something fierce actually.

    In terms of Physical Presence and some Powers, Side B’s responses for the Aphy Cabin in terms of Powers would go with the Presence of Veela-blooded Folks and Metamorphamagi, but how many of either of those do we often see Hogwarts Students having with them?

    House-Wise for Side B, the Hufflepuff House is the Closest in terms of having Actual Members for too many reasons I’d name, but I’m prepared to expand on that in a later post.

    Also, Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Piper at least about as good as Tracking the Fighting as the likes of Mako Makenshoku(Pre-Club Presidency.) or The Elite 4 when none of them are using Goku Uniforms whenever they watched Ryuko and Satsuki duke it out during the first half of Kill La Kill, the last time I checked?

    I checked 5 times over, and while Mako be bluffing about Ryuko Matoi’s Chest Sizes, her eyes didn’t deceive the last time I checked.

  95. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 10:11 pm -      #595

    @Friendly
    “Yes, because that’s literally how it is in the books. Older kids from the 6th and 7th year landed fine when using the Portkey.”

    I recall SPECIFICALLY saying that i did NOT mean to imply they would fall.
    Only that it would take them a bit to get their reactions set up.
    One does not instantly teleport and fire away the second they land.

    “They have to be within like 10-50 feet. And what exactly are the CHB going to react besides a somewhat comedic version of”

    Oh i don’t know, throw their spears/swords and kill little teenage boys with no feats of dodging them.
    Or you know, Aphrodite’s Daughters can just scream.

    “Why would they be unable to spy on the forces sitting on their doorstep during this time that they supposedly have?”

    So you’re saying they CAN leave Hogwarts?
    Aside from literally being at easedropping range, they really won’t get much or any info.
    As i said, CHB doesn’t get any prep.
    They basically just sit around and wait for the match to start.
    This isn’t a “What if…” scenario, so i’m pretty sure opposing teams don’t get to even interact before the match begins.

    “Cannon fodder is cannon fodder. Particularly cannon fodder being attacked by people they can’t see and teleport in the middle of combat without an issue. What are they going to do? Swing at empty air?”

    1. They can’t teleport mid combat. They can teleport INTO combat. Apparation is still blocked, and Portkeys won’t do any good after the initial engagement.
    2. Right, because invisibility makes you cease to exist or intangible.
    3. Sounds, Footprints, ADHD. Heightened senses.

    “Yes to the first and yes to the second. Give me a reason why not.”

    Mate… It’s a 350 ft wave… Which he’s going to be inside…
    Why or How on earth do you think they’re going to hit him?

    “Speed does nothing against spells that aren’t beams,”

    I love how you think speed is the only issue here.
    Water. Manipulation. Wave. Big. Up. Moving.
    You mean to say the Wizards are going to jump into the lake after him? and then what? just get killed by the water pressure?
    Or are you saying they’re going to try and snipe him from outside? While he’s inside something that’s bigger than hogwarts.

    “Sweet, it’s not like a giant wave is telegraphed or anything. And it’s not like the wizards can’t just teleport out of the way.”

    Teleport back to Hogwarts…? That’s the only other place the Port Keys go right?

    “Piper I can see, who was the other one?”

    camphalfblood.wikia.com/wiki/Drew_Tanaka
    Another daughter of Aphrodite

    “And when has Piper successfully told someone to kill herself? ”

    How on earth does that matter?
    She can magically charm people into doing what she wants with her voice.
    Unless people in Hogwarts have specific feats for resisting that, they will do as she says.

    “And how is she going to be able to know to do that when she has no idea she’s under attack until she’s KO’d?”

    *sigh*
    Caus once again, Wizards from HP are omniscient and know exactly who to attack and always instantly hit their mark, and never have any issues planning perfectly co-ordinated attacks without any chaos ensuing.
    And you say i’m wanking.

    There’s 2 of these chicks, and they only need to say one word.

    “at absolute wank it’s 3- none of which is out of this world for even our normal fencers.”

    1. Normal Fencers aren’t blurs. I’ve seen enough, and my eyes followed moves perfectly.
    2. Writers intent was for a superhuman showing and you know it. Limiting it down to what you consider “1, 2, or 3 blows” doesn’t make it so.

    And that’s not anywhere near his best speed feat.
    He deflected a fucking bullet, and i’m pretty sure YOU were the one that said his sword was moved from a relaxed position.
    He also didn’t notice the bullet until it was already out of the barrel.

    “Also, considering you admitted Felix Felicis shows you the path to victory- they know EXACTLY who to target.”

    Dafuq? I said the potion shows the target Victory?

    Also, Why was this ignored, caus i really do want a response to it:
    “although it’s worth noting they had to recast all their invisibility spells every time they teleported their camp”

    Daughters of Aphrodites canonically charm/glamour males by just being there.
    Sure it isn’t a big deal, but even if it helps buy a precious split second for them to finish their word, it’s better than nothing.

    Nicco also canonically has a fear aura that would make some students shit themselves.
    Once again, not a big deal, but even if it helps a tiny bit, it’s enough for him to shadow slip away.

    That’s the issue with this entire situation. Hogwarts needs to co-ordinate it perfectly, and wish for a clean speedblitz while invisible without having anything go wrong.
    Because holy shit there’s a lot that can go wrong for them.
    There’s already 4 characters named, that if given over a second, pretty much solo all of Hogwarts.

  96. Friendlysociopath April 1, 2015 at 10:27 pm -      #596

    One does not instantly teleport and fire away the second they land.

    Despite multiple instances of this happening during both the movies and the books?

    Oh i don’t know, throw their spears/swords and kill little teenage boys with no feats of dodging them.

    Feats of CHB kids being able to hit invisible targets? I’d love to see them

    1. They can’t teleport mid combat. They can teleport INTO combat. Apparation is still blocked, and Portkeys won’t do any good after the initial engagement.
    2. Right, because invisibility makes you cease to exist or intangible.
    3. Sounds, Footprints, ADHD. Heightened senses.


    1. Apparation is blocked by literally one spell, a spell that can be turned off. Hermione does it all of the time when they make camp.
    2. Right, because CHB can see invisible people and will react perfectly against an attack from nothing.
    3. Feats, feats, feats for them being able to react to invisible attacks that they have the slightest inkling are coming.

    Caus once again, Wizards from HP are omniscient and know exactly who to attack and always instantly hit their mark, and never have any issues planning perfectly co-ordinated attacks without any chaos ensuing.
    And you say i’m wanking.


    What? Are they going to miss the targets that have almost no clue they’re there? Hell, they can fly while apparating if we go by the movies- so where’s that grass going to be flattened by?

    2. Writers intent was for a superhuman showing and you know it. Limiting it down to what you consider “1, 2, or 3 blows” doesn’t make it so.

    Then prove it, the exact wording is “strike and parry” and “exchange”. Neither of these makes the feat any better.

    He also didn’t notice the bullet until it was already out of the barrel.

    With magical precog that is never evidenced again in the series. And he saw the skeleton appear and raise the gun, before he sensed it- so he can move enough to deflect a bullet when he knows it’s coming.

    Dafuq? I said the potion shows the target Victory?

    Word for word:
    “It inspires you to take a favorable pathway, whatever that pathway may be. It’ll make YOU make the best decision that you possibly can in that situation, whether you know about it or not”.

    So yes, invisible teleport blitz onto the main characters. Then mop up everyone else.

    although it’s worth noting they had to recast all their invisibility spells every time they teleported their camp

    Yes, because in order for the invisibility to stop you need to use the “anti invisibility” spell. That’s how it works.
    Why walk around invisible when you’ve warded the camp so others can’t find it?

  97. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 10:41 pm -      #597

    @Friendly
    “Despite multiple instances of this happening during both the movies and the books?”

    Apparation, not Portkeys. Unless i’m missing something.
    I’ve already been over the difference.

    “Feats of CHB kids being able to hit invisible targets? I’d love to see them”

    Well you see, there’s these things called sounds, and these things called footsteps.
    And they have this thing called heightened senses.
    Why would they NOT be able to hit them if given the time?
    Heck i could hit a fucking invisible target if you give me a sword and i hear/see some footsteps.

    “1. Apparation is blocked by literally one spell, a spell that can be turned off. Hermione does it all of the time when they make camp.”

    Hermione can turn off Divine Magic? :O
    *mind blown*

    “Are they going to miss the targets that have almost no clue they’re there?”

    Well yea… I don’t see why not.
    People land with the portkeys, CHB gets warned and starts running/throwing/attempting to fight back, slight chaos ensues where Wizards have to spend a little more time aiming.
    During which time anyone with Superhuman speed feats has a chance to get away or act appropriately.

    “Hell, they can fly while apparating if we go by the movies- so where’s that grass going to be flattened by?”

    Apparating is BLOCKED.

    “With magical precog that is never evidenced again in the series. And he saw the skeleton appear and raise the gun, before he sensed it- so he can move enough to deflect a bullet when he knows it’s coming.”

    I love how you started off by calling it magical precog, and then shrugged it off as aim-dodging…
    Even with aim dodging though, it’s still Superhuman.

    “So yes, invisible teleport blitz onto the main characters. Then mop up everyone else.”

    That’s actually a good point,
    But it still doesn’t change the situation regarding Aphrodite’s Daughters or Nicco.
    Both of whom you didn’t address.

    As for Percy, a lot of it depends on how close he is to water when this starts.
    Since literally every fraction of a second is going to be relevant to him.

    “Yes, because in order for the invisibility to stop you need to use the “anti invisibility” spell. That’s how it works.
    Why walk around invisible when you’ve warded the camp so others can’t find it?”

    I think you completely missed my point.
    Why do they need to constantly re-apply the spell to the SAME camp? after moving it via teleportation?

  98. Ragnorke April 1, 2015 at 10:50 pm -      #598

    Also, Disillusionment Charms don’t make you flawlessly invisible, but rather reflect what’s behind you in front.
    Like a Chameleon. Which while DIFFICULT to see, is not by any means impossible.
    Specially not when you already know a threat is there, Specially not when you pair it with heightened senses + sound + footsteps.

    Harry’s Cloak is remarked at being the only one that’s near perfect.
    Not just in the fact that it doesn’t seem to wear off, but also in its quality.

    This would actually settle the debate i had with Wingedlion about why not everyone just uses it… Everytime… During every fight.
    Because if the opponent already knows you’re there, it isn’t good enough to warrant it.

    Go ahead and disagree with me though, i already know you will.

  99. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 11:18 pm -      #599

    So turns out there may be a heavy hitter that’s not a big three kid. Leo Valdez the son of Hepheastus has pyrokinesis and magitechnokinesis. Using the former he was able to force the goddess of snow to retreat and has generated blasts of white hot flame capable of melting and cutting metal.
    He can create walls of flame, and apparently has thermal vision of some kind/ability to sense heat …..meaning invisible wizard rush might not work since they still give off body heat. And he can also sense metal, so invisible armors won’t work either.
    He’s considered close to the level of a big three child in power.

    Piper’s dagger can show brief glimpses of the future.
    She was also able to use the “power of love” to melt the snow of the ice goddess. So…..Love burns apparently.

  100. Jake_Uzumaki April 1, 2015 at 11:25 pm -      #600

    Percy-water
    Leo-fire
    Nico-earth
    Thalia-wind
    Piper-heart/love
    ……..I just realized….by their powers combined they summon Captain Planet lol.

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