Jackie Chan Vs Kharn the Betrayer

Jackie Chan Vs Kharn the Betrayer

Suggested by Nsl98

Jackie Chan (Jackie Chan Adventures) goes up against Kharn the Betrayer (Warhammer 40K)

Jackie has all Talismans with the exception of the Dog.

They fight in Jacksonville, FL.

Who will win?

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222 Comments on "Jackie Chan Vs Kharn the Betrayer"

  1. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 1:05 am -      #101


    Ah, found that example of the Ox power I was looking for. From the time stamp until 2:20 or so.
    I might spend Spring break doing a JCA marathon, wonder if it’s all on Netflix?

    Horse and Dog also work on your clothing, funnily enough. Horse is used at some point to repair an airplane and Jade uses it to fix a toy at one point.

  2. Jake_Uzumaki March 17, 2015 at 1:14 am -      #102

    Yeah Horse can heal anything thats an injury but not old age, and weirdly the Monkey can turn innanimate objects into animals, if touching it makes them living if not touching just statues.

  3. Commander Cross March 17, 2015 at 1:20 am -      #103

    @FriendlySociopath at #101

    The first 2 seasons of JCA definitely are, and please don’t forget to watch Dot Hack(.Hack)//Quantum while you still have the chance as well, okay?
    Maybe Madoka Magica while you’re at it too.

    —-

    Anyway, hmm, wonder what could happen if Gorechild was brought to Life With The Rat.

    Also depending on locations, anything else that could be of use to help Jackie for that matter?

  4. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 1:40 am -      #104

    “well its been shown that wearing them works, the Dragon Talisman embeds itself into your flesh.
    That or the intention could have been that he’s like Jade was when the powers of the Talismans were inside her.”

    I thought I remember you having to only just wear it in a necklace or have it in your pocket/hand to use its power. Do they all really embed themselves inside the body when held?

  5. Jake_Uzumaki March 17, 2015 at 1:51 am -      #105

    Only the Dragon did, not the others that I remember. The rest are just held or worn.

  6. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 2:08 am -      #106

    I remember reading earlier that talismans can be destroyed too. Jade destroyed the rat talisman with the dragon talisman. Even if jackie kept the dog talisman that was ruled out. Kharn need not even grapple with jackie to depower him. His clothes and talismans would be burned away by plasma fire.

  7. Jake_Uzumaki March 17, 2015 at 2:10 am -      #107

    That only destroys the shells not the powers, with the shells destroyed the powers would just move to a new host source.

  8. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 2:35 am -      #108

    A new host that isn’t jackie then. That works.

  9. Neon Lord March 17, 2015 at 3:27 am -      #109

    “What are you guys talking about? Magic is magic, what’s so hard to understand about that? The Talsimans in particular are Shendu’s powers taken away from him and put into little rocks- simple as that, that’s the origin. Shendu was really strong- Ox talisman. Shendu was fast- Rabbit. Shendu breathed fire- Dragon. and so on.”

    I was talking about the offensive powers such as shape-change affecting Kharn.

  10. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 10:13 am -      #110

    Jade destroyed the rat talisman with the dragon talisman.

    When was this? The closest thing I remember to that was Jade blowing up Shendu’s statue. Destroying the talismans only ever happened once and that was Jackie using some sort of Omega Gun from Section 13.

    Also depending on locations, anything else that could be of use to help Jackie for that matter?

    Well, Jackie looks normal and is surrounded by other normal people. Kharn sticks out like a sore thumb that screams “Blood for the Blood God!”. So Jackie has a ton of potential cover.

  11. Envoy March 17, 2015 at 11:09 am -      #111

    “A new host that isn’t jackie then. That works.”
    +
    More like a hose that is Jackie, since Jade has destroyed them multiple times accidentally and received all their powers as a result.
    =
    “The Talsimans in particular are Shendu’s powers taken away from him and put into little rocks- simple as that, that’s the origin.”
    +
    Last I checked, the origin was that Shendu stole the powers from the animals they represent, with the possible exception of the dragon.

  12. LadyRamkin March 17, 2015 at 4:11 pm -      #112

    There are actual 100% legit psychic powers in Jackie Chan adventure, its in season two, the episode where the evil dentist want to dry up a river and take all the gold in it. So 40k psychic powers would be compatible with Jackie Chan psychic powers but not Jackie Chan magic, which the talismans are.

    Uh, I think the talisman powers defiantly came from animals to begin with. After Jackie blows them up uncle explains that they will attempt to return to their original animal wielder but since they don’t exist any more they went to new animals instead.

    “More like a hose that is Jackie, since Jade has destroyed them multiple times accidentally”

    As far as i know she only gained their powers once, and she didnt actually destroy them, she… ‘energised?. them with section 13’s vault security system.

  13. Jake_Uzumaki March 17, 2015 at 4:44 pm -      #113

    They went to descendants of the original Zodiac animals, but I can’t remember how Shendu originally go them or if it was explained.

  14. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 4:48 pm -      #114

    “So 40k psychic powers would be compatible with Jackie Chan psychic powers but not Jackie Chan magic, which the talismans are.”

    For the last time, 40k warp powers are not JUST ‘psychic’ powers. You are connecting the two soley because you think they originate from someone’s brain. Warp powers can exist anywhere in a person’s body, they don’t originate from the mind. ‘Psychic’ powers is just a simple way to describe them. Warp power is primordial and natural. It exists in an alternate dimension and a psyker soul is like a hole between these two dimensions.

  15. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 4:55 pm -      #115

    or if it was explained.

    I actually don’t think it’s ever explained, no thanks to Uncle’s broken (though charming) English.

    As I remember it:
    Jackie blows up the Talismans.
    Uncle gets pissed and tells him you can’t destroy magic, only the vessels.
    Uncle says the magic will need to find new vessels, animals from the Chinese Zodiac.
    Those animals then become Talismans- except they’re alive.

    The Warp is a plane of Chaos that is created by sentient thought, Psykers use their minds to access this energy to bend the laws of reality. However, the energy is Evil and corrupts the user- except the God Emperor or something like that.

    It exists in an alternate dimension and a psyker soul is like a hole between these two dimensions.

    Which is why it’s not the same as Chinese Talisman magic.

  16. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 5:00 pm -      #116

    “Which is why it’s not the same as Chinese Talisman magic.”

    No, you still misunderstand. Nobody knows the nature of the talismans STILL. The blessing of khorne makes the user immune to the primordial and natural reality warping forces of psykers. For all I know, the chinese zodiac can be primordial. Unless you show otherwise.

  17. LadyRamkin March 17, 2015 at 5:07 pm -      #117

    Surely warp powers in 40k can be classified as natural phenomenon? You draw energy from a natural source channel it through your body etcetera, much like psychic powers. Where as the Talisman are magic, which is a supernatural phenomenon.

  18. Jake_Uzumaki March 17, 2015 at 5:17 pm -      #118

    All I know for sure is at least one time the powers went into Jade for one reason or another.
    When Shendu originally had them if I remember correctly they didn’t have the vessels originally and were just part of him.
    Daolong Wan planned to do a spell to gain the powers the way Jade had them.

  19. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 5:48 pm -      #119

    “Where as the Talisman are magic”

    I can see them being called magic since nobody knows what they actually are. They could be anything, including compatible.

  20. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 5:54 pm -      #120

    I can see them being called magic since nobody knows what they actually are. They could be anything, including compatible.

    So your proof for your claim is we have no proof supporting ours? Oh good, now I get to ignore you because that’s not an argument at all.
    We’ve given plenty of reasons why the Talismans aren’t equal to the Warp, your only defense has been
    “They COULD be primordial”
    and
    “You don’t seem to get it”
    neither of which is a valid argument.

    They’re Shendu’s powers being stuck in a vessel. In season 2 we see Shendu being stuck in the demon realm with his family- he still can jump back into our world and possess people. And him possessing Velmont grants increased strength, durability, and the ability to breath fire. They’re not EC compatible to Warp powers unless you give us a valid reason, which you have yet to do so.

    The Warp is a realm of energy that comes from Sentient thought. People tap into that energy and use it to bend the laws of reality. That’s a very specific thing that you don’t get to lump all magic into “just because”.

  21. LadyRamkin March 17, 2015 at 6:01 pm -      #121

    @Friendlysociopath
    ……………*scwint* are we arguing the same thing??? Like actually agreeing??? Hmm, it was bound to happen eventually but this is so surreal.

    “And him possessing Velmont grants increased strength, durability, and the ability to breath fire.”

    I never got that, if Shendu has those powers anyway then why did he need any of the talismans in the first season??? I can see him needing the rat as he was trapped as a statue but then doesn’t he inherently have the powers of the rat, so he wouldn’t need it???

  22. Jake_Uzumaki March 17, 2015 at 6:21 pm -      #122

    He needed the power of all twelve to break the seal on him I think. The Rat could undo the statue part but not necessarily fully break the seal.

  23. Epicazeroth March 17, 2015 at 6:41 pm -      #123

    @pimp: “For all I know, the chinese zodiac can be primordial. Unless you show otherwise.”
    Uh, no. Burden of Proof is on you. Considering they’re not Elementally Compatible in-universe, there’s no reason they should be here.
    ===
    @Ramkin (or should it be “Lady”?): My guess is that it gives him more of that power. Like, he’s “superstrong” normally, in that he’s a giant lizard. But with the Talisman, he has strength greater than he should normally have.

  24. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 7:59 pm -      #124

    My guess is that it gives him more of that power.
    He needed the power of all twelve to break the seal on him I think.


    These pretty much hit the mark. That statue is his physical body, something all the other demons had sealed in their portals.
    Without the Ox he’s just as strong as… well… a giant walking dragon. But with the Ox? He knocks Tohru through a building and across the street into another building with a flick of the finger. (Specifically mentioning he used the Ox to do so).
    Tohru weighs almost 500 pounds, knocking him that far with the flick of a finger is a pretty good hit. Not as good as the Yak physically splitting a mountain in half to reach Jade, but good in its own way.

    Hmm, it was bound to happen eventually but this is so surreal.

    Literally ALL of our disputes are over one character aren’t they? This was to be expected at some point, if we both disagreed on everything one of us would have to be stupid or a troll.

  25. Nsl98 March 17, 2015 at 8:12 pm -      #125

    Well, I took out Dog because then Kharn is just fighting Deadpool or Pre-HF Loss Wolverine.
    —-
    And that’s no fun.

  26. Neon Lord March 17, 2015 at 8:20 pm -      #126

    “Surely warp powers in 40k can be classified as natural phenomenon? You draw energy from a natural source channel it through your body etcetera, much like psychic powers. Where as the Talisman are magic, which is a supernatural phenomenon.”

    The Talisman ‘magic’ can also be considered natural phenomena of an unknown source since we don’t actually know where it comes from.

    “Which is why it’s not the same as Chinese Talisman magic.”

    Both do things that don’t obey the laws of physics, hence why anti-Warp=anti-JCmagic. If you can give a reason why JC magic is different in any specific and major way, then you might have an argument.
    =
    “As I remember it:
    Jackie blows up the Talismans.
    Uncle gets pissed and tells him you can’t destroy magic, only the vessels.
    Uncle says the magic will need to find new vessels, animals from the Chinese Zodiac.
    Those animals then become Talismans- except they’re alive.”

    This sounds a lot like the Winds of Magic moving into Incarnates in Warhammer Fantasy, all of which is Warp based. Hence another similarity.

    “The Warp is a realm of energy that comes from Sentient thought. People tap into that energy and use it to bend the laws of reality. That’s a very specific thing that you don’t get to lump all magic into “just because”.”

    JC magic is the powers of Shendu (wherever it comes from). People can tap into that energy once it is bound into talismans, and use it to bend the laws of reality. Similar enough. The make-or-break point is where the powers actually come from, which is unknown. As it stands, both are similar enough to be EC.

  27. LadyRamkin March 17, 2015 at 8:20 pm -      #127

    “@Ramkin (or should it be “Lady”?)”

    Whatever you prefer, I am a guy, but i am secure enough in my sexuality to not care if you wanna call me lady.

    “one of us would have to be stupid or a troll”

    I personally have no problem believing that i am stupid.

    Dog is pretty inconsistent in its use though. When Shendu hits Jacky with a dragon blast, Dog makes Jacky take absolutely no damage, he doesn’t react at all.

    Currently watching Jacky chan adventures from start to finish, on season 4, new shadowkhan are cool.

    “the Talisman ‘magic’ can also be considered natural phenomena”

    Except that it is very specifically magic. Which makes it, until stated otherwise, supernatural.

  28. LadyRamkin March 17, 2015 at 8:38 pm -      #128

    Fantasy is warp based?

  29. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 8:56 pm -      #129

    Fantasy is warp based?

    After quite a bit of retcons and fluff, it is ‘somewhat’ warp-based. Not everyone’s magic is warp-based, so actually yes- I’m very much considering Talismans to not be EC with Warp magic since even in-universe there is magic that doesn’t come from the Warp and as such Kharn would not be protected against it.
    Hell, the Dwarves’ entire shtick is they just refuse to believe in magic hard enough from sheer willpower to ignore it.

    Both do things that don’t obey the laws of physics, hence why anti-Warp=anti-JCmagic.

    Defying the laws of physics is what everyone around here does, even with their physical abilities. If you go that broadly we can chuck anything into being EC with the Warp.

    I’m annoyed at how circular this has become.

  30. LadyRamkin March 17, 2015 at 9:15 pm -      #130

    So, Either the talismans have become super effective after they were remade or they are all super inconsistent. Episode 3 of season 4 Jade uses the Ox talisman and get SUPER ripped, like so ripped that if i knew how to make things bold i would.

    fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/345/d/e/muscular_jade_chan_by_jdog414-d5ns4z7.jpg

    Which it has never done before.

  31. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 9:28 pm -      #131

    or they are all super inconsistent.

    I think they’re just very user oriented. You’d have never thought laser eyes = thermal vision until someone tried using them as such. Or that sticking the Tiger talisman into half of an amulet would lead you to the other half.
    To make things bold use a ‘less than’ sign then a ‘b’ followed by a ‘greater than’ sign. Then your text. Then the same as the start but with a backslash before the ‘b’. For italics it’s an ‘i’ instead of a ‘b’.
    The signs are the sideways v-shapes on your comma and period keys.

  32. LadyRamkin March 17, 2015 at 9:30 pm -      #132

    Thanks!

  33. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 9:38 pm -      #133

    “neither of which is a valid argument.”

    Its a better arguement than saying I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS, SO NOTHING IN ANY OTHER FICTION CAN POSSIBLY BE COMPATIBLE WITH IT.

    “Uh, no. Burden of Proof is on you. Considering they’re not Elementally Compatible in-universe, there’s no reason they should be here.”

    Thats the thing. Lets say two powers both have zero background info given about them. But they are both magic. Should they not be compatible for the sake of the argument moving forward? Why does warp powers having background information while the other does not make this incompatible?

    “As the Chinese zodiac is derived according to the ancient Five Elements Theory, every Chinese Sign is composed of five elements with relations, among those elements, of interpolation, interaction, over-action, and counter-action — believed to be the common law of motions and changes of creatures in the universe. Different people born under each animal sign supposedly have different personalities,[citation needed] and practitioners of Chinese astrology consult such traditional details and compatibilities to offer putative guidance in life or for love and marriage.”

    This summary tells me this zodiac religion is universal in nature and not based solely on earth. It is a universal elemental belief. Both universal and elemental sounds like the warp to me..

  34. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 9:48 pm -      #134

    Its a better arguement than saying I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS, SO NOTHING IN ANY OTHER FICTION CAN POSSIBLY BE COMPATIBLE WITH IT.

    Firstly, Burden of Proof- you are making the positive claim, “They’re elementally compatible” you have to deal with it.
    Secondly- their is stuff IN the Warhammer universe that isn’t EC with Warp powers- so yes, YOU need to prove it would work as you say since we already know not all magic falls under Warp powers.

    Technically speaking, there’s literally no EC required at all due to the nature of the blessing. This shit would never fly with any other fiction, I have no idea why it’s flying for WH40K.
    I have a God that has dominion over the elements of Fire, Water, and Lightning. That God even blesses his follower with immunity to Fire, Water, and Lightning.
    Now let’s say I have a character that uses Gravity in their attacks. The blessing of the God does nothing because he has no authority over that element, none at all.

  35. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 10:03 pm -      #135

    “Firstly, Burden of Proof- you are making the positive claim, “They’re elementally compatible” you have to deal with it.

    My claim is that they are compatible because both are universal and primordial in nature. YOU are making the negative claim with no proof whatsoever.

    ” their is stuff IN the Warhammer universe that isn’t EC with Warp powers”

    What? What are you trying to say here?

    “Technically speaking, there’s literally no EC required at all due to the nature of the blessing. This shit would never fly with any other fiction, I have no idea why it’s flying for WH40K.”

    This match ABSOLUTELY needs compatibility disscussed. One side has magic, the other has an exclusive form of magic immunity. Why the heck would this not need to be talked about?

    “This shit would never fly with any other fiction, I have no idea why it’s flying for WH40K.”

    You mean elemental compatibility? What? I don’t understand.

    “Now let’s say I have a character that uses Gravity in their attacks. The blessing of the God does nothing because he has no authority over that element, none at all.”

    You are being too specific here and leaving out elements. There would be a god of earth, and that god would have dominion over gravity.

  36. Jake_Uzumaki March 17, 2015 at 10:13 pm -      #136

    “You mean elemental compatibility? What? I don’t understand.”

    He means Kharn’s history of having a no limits fallacy get by that some people even claimed would let him no sell attacks from Galactus.

  37. pimpmage March 17, 2015 at 10:17 pm -      #137

    He would have resistance to his best feats. This will only ever extend up to small scale reality warping. Never planet bursting.

  38. Friendlysociopath March 17, 2015 at 10:29 pm -      #138

    I mean there’s zero reasons for Gods with domain over the Warp to have any say whatsoever about attacks that aren’t under their domain. The God of Fire can bless his followers to be immune to Fire, that blessing does jack against Ice, Earth, what have you.
    There are magics in the Warhammer universe that don’t use the Warp, they wouldn’t be affected either.

    My claim is that they are compatible because both are universal and primordial in nature.

    Except this is patently not true for the Talismans. They are not primordial or universal- as a matter of fact they’re the exact opposite in that there is literally ONE of every Talisman (when did I start capitalizing them?). So they are certainly not a universal force since the power comes from within the Talisman, of which there is only one.

    As we were hung up on Psychic, you are hung up on the Chinese Zodiac. They’re Shendu’s powers, that is the beginning and end of it. They are not universal, they are not primordial, they are just his powers. When he was sealed they were also sealed into the Talismans. When the Talismans were destroyed the magic had to go somewhere.

  39. Commander Cross March 17, 2015 at 11:06 pm -      #139

    There’s a bloody good reason why whenever I mentioned The Blessings of Merlin being equal to if not greater than that of Khorne, it’s never without justified causes in regards to The Knights of The Round Table. -_-‘
    It also works not only to combat Direct Offensive Supernatural Attacks in general, but it also goes against Supernatural Possession as well.

    One of the reasons being that in addition to having been a counterpart to Chiron the Centaur or Lupa the She-Wolf, he was said to be a Godling in his own right or at least as Powerful as any of them, and according to some Legends, he was older than Christ age-wise at the very least if anyone asks for Seniority.

  40. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 12:04 am -      #140

    “I mean there’s zero reasons for Gods with domain over the Warp to have any say whatsoever about attacks that aren’t under their domain.”

    This is the case with chaos gods in 40k though. You are right that it doesn’t make much sense, but this is the case. Khorn hates all magic, unless it benefit him in some way. The warp is just as much a part of his domain as the other 3 gods. He imparts the dislike of psyker beings into his servants who then wade through warp magic at will. Because he wills it to be. In all possibility, he wills the use of warp magic to fail against those with his blessings.

    “They are not primordial or universal”

    I would say they are. The zodiac is what the story and stones from the jca verse are based on. The zodiac is pretty much a lens by which people categorize and tell time. Time is universal and has existed since the dawn of time, literally. Primordial means, existing at, or from the beginning of time.

    “They’re Shendu’s powers, that is the beginning and end of it.”

    No it most definately is not. We are discussing EC. That means we have to explore where powers originate and how they are used. Psyker powers originate from the warp. You say talisman powers originate from shendu. But where does shendu get his powers? Why did he have these powers to begin with? That is what I want to get to the bottom of, but the show does not dive that deeply into the lore. It is a grey area that sources of magic from other fictions can EASILY be slotted in.

  41. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 12:25 am -      #141

    This is the case with chaos gods in 40k though.

    You misunderstand me it seems, the Warp is Khorn’s domain just as much as it is the other Chaos Gods. But that doesn’t give him any power over magic from other universes anymore than the God of Fire has power over Ice. It’s not in his authority to grant such a thing. Poseidon can no more grant his servants the power of flight than Zeus can give his servants the ability to breathe underwater. That’s what happens when you get that specific.

    No it most definately is not. We are discussing EC

    Yes it most certainly is. You’re discussing EC. I’m telling you that you aren’t right and you’re refusing to accept it. The Talismans came from Shendu, he’s strong because he’s a dragon, he breathes fire because he’s a dragon, he’s immune to conventional weaponry because he’s a dragon (Funnily enough, this is true even without the talismans).

    But where does shendu get his powers?

    I’ll say it again- he’s born with them. Being born with those powers is no different than being born with arms. His son also breathes fire and has superhuman strength.

    Which is why I keep having to repeat over and over, it’s not primordial magic and it doesn’t come from another plane of reality. It’s his natural abilities sealed away in little stone boxes.
    It is not EC with Chaos or the Warp.

  42. Limbo Lowk March 18, 2015 at 12:56 am -      #142

    “But where does shendu get his powers? Why did he have these powers to begin with?”

    Well he is a supernatural entity to begin with. Maybe they are just inborn powers like his brothers and sisters control forces like gravity or water. Sort of like magical x-men. Which by the way is actually a thing.
    Other then that spells and the likewise in JCA seem to be powered by your chi which also seems to be an internal thing like blood. They even had a chi vampire.

  43. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 1:18 am -      #143

    “But that doesn’t give him any power over magic from other universes anymore than the God of Fire has power over Ice.”

    THIS IS WHY ELEMENTAL COMPATIBILITY RULES EXIST HURR DURR.

    “I’ll say it again- he’s born with them. Being born with those powers is no different than being born with arms. His son also breathes fire and has superhuman strength.”

    Once again, that is not how EC works. We NEED to know how or where he got his powers from. You cannot say they simply exist for absolutely no reason.

    ” It’s his natural abilities sealed away in little stone boxes.”

    How is he able to turn people into rabbits? How is he able to project fire from his eyes, magic? What Kind of magic? Why is he the only one with this magic? Wait a second… alot of people in jca use magic it seems. So where does all the magic in jca come from? Chi? Lets talk about chi.

  44. Neon Lord March 18, 2015 at 1:19 am -      #144

    “Except that it is very specifically magic. Which makes it, until stated otherwise, supernatural.”

    The Warp is quite explicitly no-physics extra-dimensional incomprehensible space. That’s pretty supernatural too.

    “Fantasy is warp based?”

    They call it the Realm of Chaos instead, but its the same thing in all other regards.

    “I’m very much considering Talismans to not be EC with Warp magic since even in-universe there is magic that doesn’t come from the Warp”

    And…an example of this? All magic in 40k is Warp powered afaik.

    “I mean there’s zero reasons for Gods with domain over the Warp to have any say whatsoever about attacks that aren’t under their domain. The God of Fire can bless his followers to be immune to Fire, that blessing does jack against Ice, Earth, what have you.”

    This example is different from the case with the Warp. Say all of the God’s powers were powered by a ‘fifth element’ we shall call, for the sake of a better name, the Ether. Each God may be manipulating the Ether to generate different effects, but at their essence all magic is still the same. Something which blocks Ether magic blocks all magic. That is what happens with the Warp.

    “I’ll say it again- he’s born with them. Being born with those powers is no different than being born with arms. His son also breathes fire and has superhuman strength.”

    Yes it is. One actually comes with the baby. The other may be caused by something attached to the baby that channels the magic through its source. (Okay, that sounded really bad)

  45. Limbo Lowk March 18, 2015 at 1:35 am -      #145

    “Yes it is. One actually comes with the baby. The other may be caused by something attached to the baby that channels the magic through its source.”

    But in shendu’s case the “something attached” didn’t even exist. They were ripped out by that chinese guys magic and placed into things based in his culture. Before then he was most likely like his siblings who all have innate mystical abilities.

  46. Neon Lord March 18, 2015 at 2:04 am -      #146

    “But in shendu’s case the “something attached” didn’t even exist. They were ripped out by that chinese guys magic and placed into things based in his culture. Before then he was most likely like his siblings who all have innate mystical abilities.”

    What does that make the Chi magic and stuff Uncle and others use then? Is that the same magic?

    As I see it, the whole thing is just unclear.

  47. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 9:22 am -      #147

    Warp spells are magic that is drawn from an external source and then shaped to do as you will, like Wheel of time and Magic the gathering. Chi spells are magic that is derived from inside of your self like Sword of truth and Dresden files.

  48. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 10:09 am -      #148

    I know that many different books describe psykes using their powers in similar ways. Their talk about focusing their will and hate within themselves and releasing it in the form of warp attacks. They may be a portal, but they could focus their powers the same way as chi.

  49. Limbo Lowk March 18, 2015 at 12:24 pm -      #149

    Just as the warp comprises tides and currents of emotion that over the millennia have melded together to form the great Powers of Chaos, so in realspace each of the colours of psychic power draws on a certain type of emotion or energy from warpspace.
    Space Hulk: Genestealer (1e), p.1

    Yeaaa, an extradimesional plane of melded emotion doesn’t really sound like chi. Chi tends to be personal energy or life force attached to someone.
    You’d have to do some pretty extensive stretching to apply EC to them.

  50. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 12:30 pm -      #150

    THIS IS WHY ELEMENTAL COMPATIBILITY RULES EXIST HURR DURR.

    EC is what you use when things can work together- it doesn’t mean everything under the sun has to be made compatible.

    Once again, that is not how EC works. We NEED to know how or where he got his powers from. You cannot say they simply exist for absolutely no reason.

    And you can’t say they’re EC when you have jack-all to prove your point and we have evidence against it.
    They exist for the same reason a demon sorcerer that’s a dragon exists- because they can!
    He’s born with them Pimp, just like he’s born with arms and a dragon snout; just like his brothers and sisters were born with their power; just like his son is born with his.
    There’s no more information to be had- anything you come up with is just theoretical and holds no weight. There’s no reason to equate abilities and individual is born with to a primordial plane that people draw energy from.

    And…an example of this? All magic in 40k is Warp powered afaik.

    Somebody else brought up WH Fantasy. There’s multiple magics in Warhammer Fantasy that aren’t Warp-based.


    They may be a portal, but they could focus their powers the same way as chi.

    As someone else said, “IT’S ABOUT THE SOURCE”. Chi comes from within, Warp comes from without.

    An unique element in any universe requires another unique element in the opposing verse with similar qualities. The unique element of 40K is the Warp- a primordial dimension that people draw power from to cast spells.
    There is nothing in Jackie Chan Adventures that comes anywhere near that; certainly not Talismans which are just Shendu’s powers like being strong and durable and stuck into rocks.

  51. Jake_Uzumaki March 18, 2015 at 12:31 pm -      #151

    @Lowk
    off topic but your more knowledgeable on DC than I am. Has Bane done anything in N52 to put him in the 30 ton range?

  52. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 12:32 pm -      #152

    How old is that book the quote is from?

  53. Limbo Lowk March 18, 2015 at 1:36 pm -      #153

    “How old is that book the quote is from?”

    I have no idea. Just got it from the respect thread. Got anything else telling us what the warp is?

  54. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 2:02 pm -      #154

    Not with me right now, I am at work. But that book sounds extremely old, like one of the first 40k books to ever be released. If that’s from the first edition, made back in 1989, it’s gotta be 25 years old.

  55. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 2:38 pm -      #155

    Got anything else telling us what the warp is?

    I’m going off the wikia myself, they’ve got sources so it’s pretty legit.

    wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warp
    wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos

  56. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 4:42 pm -      #156

    So when exactly did the the pig talisman grant thermal vision? Nothing was ever actually posted, and that statement is what was used to say that you give off heat while using snake. so…..

  57. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 4:59 pm -      #157

    So when exactly did the the pig talisman grant thermal vision?

    Not entirely sure, that one surprised me as well. It was written in the description of the Pig Talisman on the wiki.
    I’m assuming they use it to catch Viper at some point when she steals the Snake Talisman.

    Also, purely for clarification, which is better for terms of firepower, wall-busting or tank-busting?
    The Pig and Dragon Talismans have both completely blown up Section 13 tanks when the Dark Hand goes on a crime spree.

  58. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 5:01 pm -      #158

    Well, ive just watched all but the last 3 episodes… so it might be in them….

    “Also, purely for clarification, which is better for terms of firepower, wall-busting or tank-busting?”

    Literally no idea. But my first instinct would be tank busting

  59. Jake_Uzumaki March 18, 2015 at 5:04 pm -      #159

    I think the thermal vision thing is assumed since in the Zodiac the Pig is the opposite of the Snake. But I don’t know

  60. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 6:14 pm -      #160

    Okay, I believe I have just watched every episode of Jacky Chan adventures, Not only did i not see any pig thermal vision but Jade never destroys the rat talisman with the dragon talisman.

    She does destroy super moose, who used to have the rat talisman, with the horse talisman that is holding the power of the dragon talisman

  61. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 6:24 pm -      #161

    Okay, I believe I have just watched every episode of Jacky Chan adventures,

    Damn, that’s impressive- all 5 Seasons? That’s some dedication you’ve got there.

  62. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 6:33 pm -      #162

    “all 5 Seasons?”

    Yeah, I got free time and its generally an enjoyable series. There is allot of shitty filler in season 2 but overall its pretty good, recommend.

  63. Jake_Uzumaki March 18, 2015 at 7:06 pm -      #163

    Yeah the thermal thing seemed fishy honestly, I’m pretty sure it was just a fan theory especially if nothing in series said it

  64. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 7:21 pm -      #164

    “Yeah the thermal thing seemed fishy honestly, I’m pretty sure it was just a fan theory especially if nothing in series said it”

    It’s quite possible that i missed some episodes, or that there are some canon comics, or the writer…. producer…. man…. lady…. person, said so.
    But out of all the ones that i watched, which i believe to be all of them, it never came up.
    _
    ……………………………………………..
    ‘Word of god’ That’s what i was looking for.

  65. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 7:56 pm -      #165

    Annnnd that’s why wiki’s without sources shouldn’t be used as primary info, only secondary.

  66. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm -      #166

    Though, even giving that the Pig Talisman cant see heat, there inst really a reason you wouldn’t give it out while using the Snake Talisman.

  67. Jake_Uzumaki March 18, 2015 at 8:07 pm -      #167

    Well I saw it discussed on other sites but it seems to just be something peopleassumed

  68. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 8:07 pm -      #168

    Which reminds me, I just saw the episode that they say the Rabbit is Supersonic today.

    It’s the one where Jade steals it to get to school in time and then is sent back to Jackie’s past.
    The scientist (Carlos? I think) says the only way Jade could’ve done the science time-travel thing that he invented would be if she was going faster than Supersonic. Jackie tries to explain that Jade was going that fast with magic… the scientist disbelieves this.

  69. LadyRamkin March 18, 2015 at 8:10 pm -      #169

    Well, it’s 0.09 AM, and I have work experience in the morning so i am going to bed. G’night all.

  70. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 9:22 pm -      #170

    So I just looked back over some of the videos showing talisman powers. The monkey talisman fires a slow beam that makes a person into an animal.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxdzMyYPUf4

    In this video, plain jackie without the rabbit talisman dodges like 3 blasts from it as well as blasts from the pig and dragon talisman. Thats a pretty low showing. Everything jackie has can be dodged by the like of kharn.

  71. Jake_Uzumaki March 18, 2015 at 9:28 pm -      #171

    @Friendly
    wasn’t there also a scene where Jade runs from California to Florida in seconds/minutes. Wouldn’t that be minimum supersonic?

  72. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 9:34 pm -      #172

    This entire episode is full of showings, go nuts


    Of particular note:
    Dragon and Pig Talismans blowing up tanks and Armored vehicles.
    Rooster also easily picking up a tank while simultaneously keeping its user levitating. And throwing the tank hard enough to gouge out parts of the road.
    The Dark Hand firing a massive Monkey beam down the entire street and taking multiple Section 13 agents at once with it.
    Horse not requiring any actual thought from its user to heal.

    Also, you say “Jackie dodged it” like that’s a light thing. He’s easily superhuman considering the feats the villains have and he can not only fight them on even ground, he wins. Not to mention he can outrun trains and cars.

    wasn’t there also a scene where Jade runs from California to Florida in seconds/minutes. Wouldn’t that be minimum supersonic?

    Minimum? Sure, you’ll have to wait for Ramkin to get back, apparently he just watched all of the series. What arc was that in? Demons Doors? Original Talisman hunt? Demon Masks?

  73. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 9:42 pm -      #173

    Er, actually, screw that- it’d be way past supersonic. California to Florida in even 10 minutes is Mach 18. And that’s flying, not running.
    Running would actually increase the speed since that means she couldn’t just go in a straight line.

  74. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 9:59 pm -      #174

    “Also, you say “Jackie dodged it” like that’s a light thing. He’s easily superhuman considering the feats the villains have and he can not only fight them on even ground, he wins. Not to mention he can outrun trains and cars.”

    Remember you are comparing jackie to kharn right? Kharn, the guy who was at one time, the #1 baddest ass space marine out of several million back during the horus heresy. The guy with ten thousand years worth of combat experience. That guy is far beyond stock jackie reflexes and movement. If jackie can dodge, kharn can extremely easily.

  75. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 10:09 pm -      #175

    If jackie can dodge, kharn can extremely easily.

    It’s like you didn’t read the part about the beam being wide enough to hit multiple people running down the street.

    That video is 38 mins long and you didn’t post timestamps. I am not going to watch it.

    1) I also wrote about it, you don’t have to watch a thing.
    2) Too bad, I’m not going to timestamp it

  76. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 10:11 pm -      #176

    That video is 38 mins long and you didn’t post timestamps. I am not going to watch it.
    Edit
    Wtf, JCA verse has cthulu?!?! lol

  77. pimpmage March 18, 2015 at 10:23 pm -      #177

    “I also wrote about it, you don’t have to watch a thing.”

    Its hard to differentiate an interpretation from from feat with you. You posted timestamped feat earlier in the debate claiming supersonic speed showings, you showed some dragon moving at ~60 miles an hour. I always post timestamps when adding video feats, its a nice thing to do for people. Go look at the swordsman match, every video posted had timestamps for clarity.

  78. Jake_Uzumaki March 18, 2015 at 10:36 pm -      #178

    @Friendly
    since the time frame was a space shuttle launch I’m betting it was the Gravity Demon episode.
    Speaking of which wasn’t that demon’s to screw with the moon somehow? I really can’t remember.

  79. Neon Lord March 18, 2015 at 10:48 pm -      #179

    “Space Hulk: Genestealer (1e), p.1″

    I’m pretty sure the second bit about specific emotions has not been mentioned anywhere in the last four editions.

    It makes sense that different psykers may be drawing upon the Warp differently through different psychic disciplines, but coming back to the Ether example, anti-Warp still blocks all of them.

    “Warp spells are magic that is drawn from an external source and then shaped to do as you will, like Wheel of time and Magic the gathering. Chi spells are magic that is derived from inside of your self like Sword of truth and Dresden files.”

    But anti-magic from the former verses would still work against the latter universes right? If so, why doesn’t that apply here?

  80. Jake_Uzumaki March 18, 2015 at 11:01 pm -      #180

    So we don’t actually see Jade running. But shortly after she see’s the Dark Hand on the tv moving towards the shuttle we hear the T-Minus 30 seconds countdown.
    She see’s them at 2:33
    2:46 ish we see suited up after ascending in the elevator (even if there is a time skip there’s also the fact the Talismans are locked up and Jade would have had to sneak through Section 13) and we hear T-Minus 30 seconds. Then we have Jackie climbing up the launching Space Shuttle (being at the edge of the atmosphere before he gets in) Then we see Jade is not only already in the shuttle but has put on a space suit of her own beforehand. So…either she put it on using super speed, got there while the Dark Hand was getting their suits on, or the suits are very easy to put on and she had time to find the suit that would fit her, put it on, and get into the shuttle with no one else noticing her. Or she got there before the time jump and beat the Dark Hand on board.

  81. Friendlysociopath March 18, 2015 at 11:20 pm -      #181

    Aw damn it, it didn’t post? Argh, I even went and timestamped it! (It takes me forever to load videos, I have 5 people on the same internet) Pimp, aim for 25 minutes in if you want Talisman stuff, for some reason BankGambling is really not wanting to load for me today.

    But anti-magic from the former verses would still work against the latter universes right? If so, why doesn’t that apply here?

    Not exactly, but yes in a way. A Dresden circle would block magic from opposing universes because those circle’s block everything, including magic.

    But Kharn’s protection comes from a Chaos God protecting him from Warp-based magic. It is specifically focused on magic that comes from the Warp. When you have a universe that revolves around a certain element, there must be a suitable element in the next universe for EC to apply.

    For example: Kill la Kill. They have Life Fibers in literally all the clothing and people on their world, which the big bad can manipulate to control everyone. Most other fictions do not have anything of the sort to be EC with.
    This makes that option unavoidably out for Kill la Kill, there’s simply nothing similar to Life Fibers to be EC with.

    As such, in order to be EC with the Warp, the magic would have to be similar in some form or fashion; like pulling the energy from a different plane. Or gaining powers from a blessing of a deity. That way Khorne’s control over it could still be debated since they’re more similar than different.

    There are no similarities between Talisman powers and Warp magic beyond both having the term ‘magic’ to describe them:
    -Psykers draw energy from the Warp, the thing Khorne has some domain over.
    -Talismans are just Shendu’s native powers sealed away in rocks.
    -The Warp is a sea of energy based off sentient thought that many people can access at once.
    -There is literally one of every Talisman.
    -The Warp is the one and only source of magic in WH40K.
    -Jackie Chan has several magic sources: Talismans, Demon Masks, Chi, artifacts, Ghosts, Chupathingy, Cthulu, and so on

    There’s way more differences then similarities.

  82. pimpmage March 19, 2015 at 12:36 am -      #182

    From that video, those beams could probably do some damage to kharn. But all the beams, dragon, pig, and rabbit are all easily dodgeable, and seeing that both sides know what their opponents are capable of, kharn would never let something so choreographed as throwing your hand out and yelling rat, and THEN firing a beam, ever nail him.

  83. Friendlysociopath March 19, 2015 at 1:08 am -      #183

    You don’t *have* to throw your hand out and scream the name of the Talisman. They just do it all the time because it’s a cheesy kids show. There are showings of all the Talismans working without having to call out the name. Everyone enjoys a good pun, even the ultimate villains.

    Also, considering the feat Jake brought up, the Rabbit talisman makes you massively hypersonic even assuming a 10 minute travel (at the worst) and gives reaction times to boot since there’s no way in hell Jade didn’t run into ANYTHING while crossing the US. Running around at Mach 18 makes Jackie fast enough to run a few circles around Kharn before eliminating him with whatever method comes to mind.

  84. pimpmage March 19, 2015 at 1:36 am -      #184

    “You don’t *have* to throw your hand out and scream the name of the Talisman.”

    Its called CiS. Some CiS effects are universal. Like how people in One Piece call out the names of all their attacks, vs something like bleach where they don’t. Of course they wouldn’t really need to, but they do because it is their MO. Just like how Jackie would, in all likelyhood, taunt kharn with silly puns. And kharn would yell blood for the blood god alot.

    “Also, considering the feat Jake brought up, the Rabbit talisman makes you massively hypersonic even assuming a 10 minute travel”

    All the characters in the show seem to have vastly different capabilities with the stones. Its pretty inconsistent, is there any times in the show where jackie uses the rabbit stone and not jade?

  85. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 4:14 am -      #185

    “you’ll have to wait for Ramkin to get back, apparently he just watched all of the series”

    While i did do that, it has been well established that my memory is terrible, in Percy vs Link, i read a majority of the books with Percy in, but still didn’t recognise 80% of the feats you were posting and didn’t understand the significance of the other 20% until they were explained.

    “something like bleach where they don’t”

    This is the same Bleach where Ichigo is the main character right? The same bleach where Ichigo himself states that shouting the name of his attack actually makes it stronger??

    “is there any times in the show where Jackie uses the rabbit stone and not jade?”

    A few.

  86. Neon Lord March 19, 2015 at 4:56 am -      #186

    “There’s way more differences then similarities.”

    Eh, alright. Seems fair enough now that it’s been properly explained.

  87. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 10:44 am -      #187

    So, im not great at physics, but if Jackie uses a Talisman beam while moving super fast the talisman beams subsequently move faster than Jackie right? So that is hyper sonic, tank busting, laser beams… right?

  88. pimpmage March 19, 2015 at 11:06 am -      #188

    He moves faster than beams because all those beams are super slow, and he moves 70% the speed of a normal bullet. Which is nothing to a space marine such as kharn who could catch bullets out of the air super easily.

  89. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 11:30 am -      #189

    “He moves faster than beams because all those beams are super slow”

    Right, but if he fires the beams WHILE he is moving fast, then the beams have a starting velocity equal to his current velocity. If i throw an egg while standing on a train the egg will move faster than the train.

    “and he moves 70% the speed of a normal bullet”

    Bullets can get from California to Florida in 10 minuets??????? JESUS, did not now that…

  90. pimpmage March 19, 2015 at 11:51 am -      #190

    No, jade moved that fast with the talisman. Maybe she had an mastery in their use. Also, if you are in a car going the speed of light and then turn on your headlights, the headlight light world still be going light speed and not faster. Eggs have mass, beams do not.

  91. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 11:54 am -      #191

    *scwint* surely if you are going at the speed of light your mass mas become infinite and you have imploded, how are you supposed to turn on the headlights?

    “Maybe she had an mastery in their use.”

    How do you master an on off switch?

    “No, jade moved that fast with the talisman”

    The power of the buffing Talismans seem to scale depending on how large/strong you are. If anything Jackie can go faster than that.

  92. Friendlysociopath March 19, 2015 at 12:03 pm -      #192

    Found the part where the scientist says Rabbit makes you go at least supersonic.


    Maybe she had an mastery in their use.

    While this is a decent point, the Dark Hand all demonstrated incredible prowess for never having the Talismans before. Jackie has more experience than they do. Even 1/3 of Mach 18 (which is ludicrously underselling the feat by itself but it’s a nice even number with no decimals that can be split easily) would be too fast for Kharn to deal with.

    As for speed- remember this cartoon is 15 years old. Those blurred lines were what they chose to show how fast people were going. They create shockwaves that throw people and objects aside as they run- that’s decently fast.

    Just like how Jackie would, in all likelyhood, taunt kharn with silly puns. And kharn would yell blood for the blood god alot.

    This idea amuses me very much, I wonder if I can find a sprite sheet for Kharn… I already have a Jackie one.

  93. pimpmage March 19, 2015 at 12:29 pm -      #193

    Maybe mastery wasn’t the best word do use, affinity works better. Jade always tries to get ahold of them whenever she had the chance. Jackie doesn’t make use of them except as a last resort. Maybe Jackie can’t use all the potential within the talismans because he doesn’t feel he needs them.

  94. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 12:45 pm -      #194

    “Maybe mastery wasn’t the best word do use, affinity works better.”

    Yeah, affinity works better. I still don’t agree with you, but it is a better choice of phrase.

  95. Friendlysociopath March 19, 2015 at 12:49 pm -      #195

    Maybe Jackie can’t use all the potential within the talismans because he doesn’t feel he needs them.

    Early on? Yes, Jackie is extremely reluctant to use magic.
    But each subsequent season has him becoming more and more willing to use it to help him in his endeavors; remember, Jackie has to mature as a character too. He comes to terms with having to save the world all the time, even though he’s an archaeologist at heart.

    Prime example, Jackie absorbs the Chi of the Earth Demon Sorceror to keep it from Drago; after being initially wary, he adapts quickly to it- levitating rocks, burrowing beneath the earth, causing shockwaves, and even splitting the ground and then sealing his enemies in it.

    And the Talismans are something he’s actually used repeatedly; he should have no issues using their full power when his life is on the line.
    (Almost caught you Ramkin!)

  96. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 12:56 pm -      #196

    Also, if you are interested, i could use some help with this:

    www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=148642

    Everything i say gets moderated for a couple of hours so im not exactly the most responsive on it.

    @Friendlysociopath
    What do you think about the hypersonic dragon fire? Viable?

  97. pimpmage March 19, 2015 at 1:08 pm -      #197

    So, you two seem to understand me well enough, it’s nice not having to deal with other belligerent debaters. Anyway, I really just want to rely on speed feats when Jackie used the rabbit stone. There is a huge efficiency change between talisman users that I think is a big deal. Of course you could blame it I just being a children’s show. But since Jackie is using the talisman in this match, feats of him alone using it would be way more important than of someone else’s feats.

  98. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 1:14 pm -      #198

    It’s does very much seem to be the old comic problem that the Talismans are as strong as the writers need them to be….

    If it really bothers you that much, I’ll scan back through and try and find somthing for Jacky using the Talisman. But even if I do I probably wont recognise it as significant.

    “feats of him alone using it would be way more important than of someone else’s feats.”

    It’s just that its a transferable ability. It should, hypothetically, be the same for everyone. You are just using the ability in the stone.

  99. pimpmage March 19, 2015 at 1:15 pm -      #199

    youtu.be/ACUuFg9Y9dY

    Check out this v sauce video about the topic of light speed combined with movement.

  100. LadyRamkin March 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm -      #200

    I don’t understand how that’s relevant? Literally nothing (except the light) in this match is moving at the speed of light. Jackie isnt, Kharn isn’t, The dragon fire isn’t. Kharns plasma isn’t. I don’t get why you are pushing this light angle?

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